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bsbray
6th December 2015, 07:35
This thread will be for anyone interested to keep notes on research into the New Chronology and see how it might take account of historical events known from the conventional or Scaligean chronology.

I'll keep a list of questions here in this first post, and as we find answers for them I'll post those here as well, and also links to the posts where further information is given. That way we can easily keep up with things. So if anyone thinks of any unanswered questions they have with the New Chronology, please post them here and we can try to figure these things out through independent research.



Filling in the Chronology

1) Where does the New Chronology place the end of the last ice age, the ancient rising of sea levels and the celestial impacts believed to have initiated this?

- No data yet.




Redefining Past Civilizations

1) Can references to the Tartarian Empire and its importance in Slavic heritage be found in the Pan-Slavic literature of the 19th and 20th centuries?

- No data yet. I am still trying to find examples of Pan-Slavic literature online from the 1800's until the First World War.

Novusod
6th December 2015, 16:33
I came across an interesting discovery in Root Language thread under the analysis of the letter T.

The name Russia originally meant bull. On the old maps Russia was called: Tartaria or the Great Tartaria.
Taur Taur (Tar-tar) is a bull in the root language also known as zodiac sign Taurus. The Taur Rus is a bull.
The root word would be Taurus. Taur Taur means bull. Tartaria means the people of Taurus.

Taurus = Taurussian = people of Taurus.
Taur Taur Russian Taurussian.

Also the Etruscan means Taurus people. Tauruscan.
Etruscan means people of Taurus the bull. Ta-ruscan

There is also a star called Tauri in the constellation Taurus. Tauri is the Eye of Taurus the follower. Tauria could also refer to people from space from the Taurian star system. Possibly the advanced civilizations are from Tauri. In modern star charts Tauri is called Aldebaran. There are quite a few stories and legends out there about Aldebaran. There are many psychics and remote viewers who speak of Tauri (Aldebaran) playing a major role Earth's hidden history.

bsbray
9th December 2015, 23:44
Just found this tonight on archive.org: Lettres chinoises, indiennes et tartares, by Voltaire and Cornelius Pauw, first published in 1776. (https://archive.org/details/lettreschinoise00pauwgoog)

This was actually a forbidden book in pre-revolutionary France, illegal to sell or posses (as several hundreds of books at that time were). It's interesting for a couple of different reasons. For one thing it was one of the best-selling illegal books of that time in France, so it has a place in the popular literary underground that contributed to the French Revolution in 1789. In other words this was certainly not an "establishment" book, at least as far as the monarchy and clergy were concerned.

The other interesting thing, and the reason why I'm posting it here, is because it includes information from that time on China, India, and Tartaria, which features prominently in both Sylvie's videos and Fomenko's work, as an important historical empire that has been largely wiped out of the historical record.

The first part of this text, to page 85 of the pdf (numbered page 75 in the book itself), is about China, and its religion, morals and other aspects of their culture. Lettre VII, on page 72 of the pdf, is interesting in that it addresses an apparent belief popular among "savants" in Paris at that time that the Chinese and Indians were descendants of the Egyptians. Voltaire argues against this and notes that they base this belief off of the Bible, since after the flood Noah only had three sons and their wives to repopulate the, and these were believed to have given rise to the white, black, and Jewish races separately. It was for this reason that the Indians, Chinese, and especially Native Americans presented a major problem to the doctrine of the church simply for existing. This is also a good example of how indoctrinated and brainwashed most of Europe was with false history, from the medieval period to the French Revolution and beyond, until today.

From page 85 of the pdf up until 112, information is given on Indian culture and religion.

Lettre XI on page 112 is about Tibet, which is described as a "little corner" of Tartaria. Today Tibet is under Chinese control but between Han China and India, with territory formerly under the control of the Turks (said to be descendants of the Mongol invaders) to its west.

On page 117 there is a curious anachronism in that Voltaire (or perhaps the other author) states that the idea of reincarnation "has never been expressly condemned" as heretical by the church, though it may be in the future. He says this in the context of an apparently Indian and Tartar belief in immortality. In fact, the idea of reincarnation or transmigration of souls was effectively condemned at the Second Ecumenical Council in 553 AD, when views of the early church father Origen were condemned (one of the arguments used to condemn Origen's views as false included that "there is no recollection of previous lives"). Voltaire may have simply been unaware of this, or maybe the chronology was off yet again, or maybe the council was a forgery.

On pages 119-120 there is a quote attributed to Pythagoras where the writer claims to have been the reincarnation of someone from the Trojan War.

Page 116 - Mention of an invasion of China by "Manchu Tartars." Voltaire says that this happened in the "siècle passé," the previous century, ie in the 1600's. This matches the conventional historical narrative for when the Manchu conquered the rest of China and established the Qing dynasty, which lasted through European imperialism until 1912 when nationalist movements overthrew the monarchy. I dug around Wikipedia and found that conventionally, the founders of the Qing dynasty were from Manchuria, as Voltaire says, but Wikipedia says that they were Jurchen people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurchen_people) who were first described in European literature in 1612, who were distinct from Mongols and Turks and spoke a Tungusic language. Interestingly, some scholars argue that the Tungusic languages are related to Mongol or Turkic languages, but apparently mainstream academia denies this.

If Voltaire is correct in saying that the founders of the Qing Dynasty were Tartars (Manchu Tartars, specifically), it would make sense that they spoke a language related to what the Mongols or Turkish people speak today. According to the New Chronology, the Turks were related or had a common ancestral heritage to the Slavic and Germanic tribes, and though I have still not read that far into Fomenko's work, these people also seem to have made up the inhabitants of Tartaria.

On this same page (116 of the pdf) Voltaire also notes that it was once again a clergyman who first wrote of this conquest of China by what became the Qing Dynasty. This particular clergyman, "Don Jean de Palafox" was bishop and viceroy of Mexico. Maybe it's just me but I would think that a position in Mexico would place him quite a distance from events unfolding in China. Voltaire explains that the Chinese civilized the Tartars so much that, "one can almost no longer distinguish the two nations today." He goes on to say, "The last Tartar Emperors [note here: not kings, but emperors -- interesting distinction] have not made but a single people out of two grand [or large] peoples."

The rest of this book mentions some Roman history, some letters about Switzerland, poetry, and other incidental things that might be interesting on their own but seem to have nothing to do with Tartaria. A kind of table of contents is provided at the end of the book, on pdf page 272.

bsbray
12th December 2015, 07:30
I'll keep digging through Fomenko's work on this thread since I've already got a lot of his work downloaded, and volume 1 of "History: Fiction or Science?" in the mail the other day, but I've found a list of other chronologists and historical revisionists, some of them tying into Fomenko's work and some of them specializing in revising the chronologies of specific times and civilizations:


Let's start by looking at the big picture of chronological revision in order to situate Fomenko's ideas in their historical place. The following list of names covers some of the individuals who have made a significant contribution to chronography. I've included the usual suspects but also added a few of my personal favorites.

Valla, Bodin, Scaliger, Casubon, Petavius, de Launoy, Kalvits, De Arsilla, van der Aa, Krekshino, Newton, Hardouin, Germon, Lacunza, Aschbach, Hochart, Winckelmann, von Cohausen, Pallmann, Johnson, Morozov, Mommsen, Spengler, Kammeier, Baldauf, Drews, Diener, Velikovsky, Olague, Hobsbawm, Postnikov, Luling, Friedrich, Marx, Niemitz, Davidenko, Bogdanov, Guts, Meier, Gabowitsch, Zarnack, Martin, Topper, Voigt, Melamed, Grishin, Krawcewicz, Kalashnikov, Heinsohn, Geise, Fomenko, Haug, Tabov, Kesler, Carotta, Illig, de Sarre, Winzeler, Sinyukov, Valyansky, Kalyuzhny, Zabinsky, Riemer, Zillmer, Rohl, Muller, Pfister, Detering, Bloss, Gerasimov, Nosovosky, Tyurin, Kinnoy, Diacu, Lopatin, Kas, and Garry Kasparov, former world chess champion who was instrumental in popularizing these ideas in Russia and in introducing them to the English-speaking world.

Tip of the hat to Vlad Melamed and Rob Grishin whose website New Tradition (aka Revised History), assembled some key English language documents and provided an eye-opening peak into the Russian scene. Special mention for Eugene Gabowitsch who linked the German, Russian and English movements, introduced the "historical analytics" of Morozov, Fomenko and Nosovosky to the "Phantom Time" researchers and took Velikovskyian "catastrophism" back to Russia. (He also had the world's largest vodka bottle collection).

"The biggest fraud in human history, is human history"
Dr. Eugene Gabowitsch (30.8.1938-21.1.2009)

Note this: Fomenko and Nosovosky do not recognize any global catastrophe and consider such ideas part of a plot to undermine their work and distort that of Morozov. As for their relationship to the other researchers, they consider them "parasites".

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29881


There is a lot more to read at that site and I'd like to try to get in contact with the guy who posted the info at some point, since he's already done some serious digging into all of this by the look of it. The first names listed above, such as Scaliger and Petavius, are some of the medieval clergy chronologists that were responsible for the conventional chronology in use today, which Fomenko calls the Scaligean chronology. I know that works by Scaliger and Petavius are on archive.org but I think they're all in Latin. (The fact that the church used Latin so recently, and even still use it today in the Vatican City, is another point of interest considering revised chronologies such as Fomenko's place the "Roman Empire" much closer to modern times than the Scaligean chronology. Latin was in still use all over western Europe among the educated and upper class until only a few hundred years ago, not much different than it would have even been in the ancient empire, since the rural populations retained their languages. The Romance and all Indo-European langauges are related but the question of how and when is still a pretty open-ended question considering the vast academic question mark that the "Dark Ages" presents.)

Here's a German Wikipedia page, unfortunately not yet available in English, covering a list of chronology revisionists, beginning with Velikovsky and Fomenko: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronologiekritik

Maggie
12th December 2015, 16:53
I'll keep digging through Fomenko's work on this thread since I've already got a lot of his work downloaded, and volume 1 of "History: Fiction or Science?" in the mail the other day, but I've found a list of other chronologists and historical revisionists, some of them tying into Fomenko's work and some of them specializing in revising the chronologies of specific times and civilizations:

I came across this organization FYI....

Society for Interdisciplinary Studies
The oldest and most up to date society for catastrophist information and research
(http://www.sis-group.org.uk/ancient.htm)

One of the big departures that might be interesting to explore seems to be that Fomenko's school does not seem to accept that history is cyclic in any way? Or that one or more (large or small) "catastrophic resets"might have been involved in "historic" times?

I am certainly not any expert but have noticed that Fomenko is rather dogmatic about other theorists' work.

This is quote from Fomenko's books web page (http://www.bookmasters.com/marktplc/01098.htm)


New Chronology goes by the following basic axioms:
- Chronology is the basis of history;
- Human evolution has always been linear, gradual and irreversible;
- The "cyclic" nature of human civilization is a myth, likewise all the gaps, duplicates, "dark ages" and "renaissances" that we know from consensual history are fantasy and hoax;
- The accumulation of geographical knowledge as reflected in cartography is a gradual and irreversible process;
- The closer in time is a given manuscript to the events described the less distortions it contains;
- There is no "useless" information in authentic ancient sources.

bsbray
12th December 2015, 17:55
Thank you for posting that, Maggie. This is exactly the kind of website I was looking for. And yes, Fomenko seems very dogmatic on certain issues. I don't agree with his approach that ancient cataclysms have not occurred. There are lots of buried and underwater ruins that would argue against his position, and Sylvie covers these in her videos (and thus the title of her series, the "Survivors"). But the statistical approach to historical narratives in his work is presenting some things that are extremely intriguing.