Does the Bock Saga lead on to The Lord Of The Rings? [Archive]

View Full Version : Does the Bock Saga lead on to The Lord Of The Rings?

Elen

12th November 2015, 10:28

This is especially interesting to me, being Norwegian, because we’ve been always associated with being Vikings and warrior like. We have all forgotten our heritage, and so why accept anything at face value. As I’m searching for the truth I feel there’s much more to things than meets the eye. Just filling in the gaps.

ORIGINS OF HUMANITY

The Sa-Ga is a history and mystery so huge it defies description. To date, Ior Bock has released information about four major periods in Earth's history. These periods are Paradise time, Atlantis, the time following Atlantis and the New Times. All of this knowledge is known as the Väinämöinen Mythology.

According to the Sa-Ga's history of human evolution, which dates to the first seeds of life on this Earth, the seeds grew and evolved to a point where eels formed. Eels then gave rise to frogs, which eventually evolved, into monkeys. At some point, the genetics of the monkey and the goat (the symbol of Bock) were combined to create the first two humans, "Frej "and "Freja". The Sa-Ga does not say who was responsible for these genetic manipulations.

This occurred at the exact North Pole around which the sun circled and never set. Surrounding the Pole was a land that became the Motherland known as Odenma, Uudenmaa. At its centre was Hel, meaning clear, home and complete. The humans were known as pi-pol. people and all knowledge could be understood within the pol and ring. It is significant to note that mathematics is based on 0 and 1, a pole and a ring. Uudenmaa, the garden of Ooden, which later became known as Eden, is now in Southern Finland and was a tropical paradise and the home of the first people known as the Aser. Ringlands were created outside of Uudenmaa and within each ringland the breeding system was put in place. The people that lived outside of Uudenmaa were known as the Vaner people who had the Van (means "one") language.

Within the Kela of sounds, which make up the Rot language was the knowledge of how to be one with nature and our plan-et, plan means plan and et means family, family plan to create wholeness. Men and Women were equal. The man had his-story (history) and the female her miss story (mystery).

Both understood the knowledge of how the light of the Sun enables all things to grow and is everything, known as Oden. Ooden also represents the knowledge of the Court of Aser. One Ring, whole and complete, one giving, breeding system, Ye-hov-a “give to the Court of Aser" was in Uudenmaa with Hel at its centre. With this knowledge and its proper utilization, the Aser was considered healthy whole and complete. This was eventually changed to Jehovah. God (good) within became "God in Heaven." During Christian times the Heathen system, and all it represented, was hunted down, destroyed and removed.

Eventually the female was excluded from this new system because much of her mystery (miss-story) became ta-boo (taboo). Ta is to give (germinate the seed) which is feminine, b is borg, meaning cast-el, (castle) the breeding system and oo is Oden the Sun and knowledge to make things grow healthy. Shiva is the Sun and moon once a month, knowledge of the Moon and monthly cycles.

The respect and sharing of male and female essence, sperma and sav, was regarded as whol-i (holy) and created the i-moo-en system meaning in the mouth, creating a healthy and whole immune system. Then the respect and sharing of sperma and sav became taboo, in other words restricted and forbidden. Men could no longer understand the history and mystery to assimilate the seed of knowledge did not follow the breeding system and create wholeness with Ooden. Prior to this time it was the female's right to choose when to be a mother by way of the dream of Lucia. This happened on the 13th of December, Lucia day.

The 24th December was Fest-i-val (festival) day when the Disa's (stem mothers) were impregnated by Lemminkäinen inside Odenma. On this day the coming fathers stood on ped-i-stals (pedestal) naked with standing pricks so that the self-chosen mothers could look their 'sweet hearts' in the eye and choose that one they like. The 25th December was Jule Tide, the birthday of the Sun (not the Sun of God). On the 26th of December the men chosen on Festival day had to pass physical tests to prove their fitness to be a father. This day was known as Bock-sing day, now called Boxing Day.

Throughout the corruption of Christian times, the original meanings of the language and their importance were changed, lost or contaminated. Consequently, the female was denied her natural worth and equality. Instead of sperma and sav being honoured it became ill-used and wasted.

Continuation of Life

In the continuum, certain trees were regarded as sacred. Among these was the Ash tree and the Oak tree. Ancient records show people had a life span of nearly a thousand years. In Paradise time, one's life span could have been very long indeed. When a person died, they were cremated and their ashes went into the Ash tree. The soul was then able to be absorbed by the roots, ascend through the tree trunk, branches and leaves, to leave this plan-et whole.

This may explain why few remnants of the Homo Sapiens of that time have been found. In Christian times these family trees were systematically destroyed.

Frej and Freja were the first. They understood the alphabet, the Kela of sound. This then enabled them to understand the system of procreation they were to initiate to ensure that all humans born would be god (pronounced as "good").

Frej and Freja had at least 12 sons and seven daughters. This first family became the Piruet family. At its head was Per (Allfather) and Ella (The Earth mother). The 12th Son became the new Bock who mated with Svan to create a further 12 sons and 7 daughters. The first son of Frej and Freja was named Ra and the first daughter Maya. Ra and Maya became the teachers (King and Queen) at the age of 27 years old. Ra and Maya maintained the hidden heathen knowledge.

Ra and Maya, the King and Queen, did not mate because they were teachers. It is interesting to note that in most Scandinavian countries teachers were not allowed to have children. If they did have children, they no longer were allowed to teach.

Through the decent of the family line, three more breeding groups were formed: Jarlet, Karlet and Trelet. These became the Vaner people that lived outside of Uudenmaa. From this point the original Bock then mated with a Svan from the Vaner people. In this way a second breeding group was created within Uudenmaa. There were then two groups within Uudenmaa, the Piruet and the Roset Aser people. The breeder in each ringland was the Rabis who were the Allfather.

Read more: http://www.paulapeterson.com/Bock_Saga.html

And here is a video where he speaks about Lemminkäinen's Temple ouside Helsinki. He is using the Rot Language which all Scandinavians understand naturally.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W09qHATzRtk&t=522s

Dreamtimer

12th November 2015, 11:34

The more I learn about my ancestors the more awesome they become. And I want to go slap the Christians silly and then put a real hurtin' on 'em...

Sigh...

Thanks for sharing Elen. This is great.

Elen

12th November 2015, 12:49

I've heard this mentioned before, and it ties in with what NewEarth is sharing. The official history is nowhere near telling what really happened. Now Ior Bock is gone, since 2010, murdered so it is obvious that things have been covered up.

It seems like it's up to us to figure things out for ourselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr4O3EgYuvI

Elen

bsbray

12th November 2015, 17:07

I was reading some reviews for the book Arktos (http://www.amazon.com/Arktos-Joscelyn-Godwin/dp/0932813356) and they make mention of a discussion in the book about how the Arctic was considered a kind of paradise by the ancients, and not frozen and uninhabitable.

That sounds odd but it's also suggested that in the past, if the Earth did not tilt back and forth on its axis (ie, there were no seasons), then the Sun really would never go down in the Arctic, it would just go around in circles in the sky all day. And if this were the case, rather than being totally frozen, these lands would actually be warmer than the latitudes below them because they wouldn't experience the colder temperatures of night.

The Greeks are famous for their stories about Hyperborea, meaning "beyond (hyper) [the] north wind (borea)." They also considered this a kind of paradise and said that the god Apollo lived there.

modwiz

12th November 2015, 17:24

I have some videos about the Bock Saga that haven't been watched yet. I will find the time to view them because they may have some relation to the Survivor theme Elen has given us through the New Earth videos.

Maggie

12th November 2015, 17:33

Hi Elen and all,

This is my first post here. My name is Maggie. I post on PA and recognize some people here from that forum.

I joined because I have been following Sylvie's newearth channel and Elen has been dedicating her threads to my consuming passion of the times before history (and the smudged history in our times). Thanks Elen for your time.

Elen, are you planning to participate in the remote viewing research? I could not find where Far Sight Institute was the suggested KIND of remote viewing to learn? Is that what Sylvie recommended? Also, how is the best way to reach Sylvie? Is it through you tube? Maybe others might want to know if you know also who read this thread?

I am absolutely entranced by the possibility that the Bock Sa Ga is a true source of information. The conception of society as laid out is so detailed. It touches quite deeply on sexual practices that keep the race strong. I am positive that common society would erupt into total horror at some of the hygeine described. The destruction of the heathen has included our ground of sexual beingness as humans. We cannot even discuss issues such as same sex intercourse, eugenics, women as EQUAL (and different) partners of men without arousing emotional programming to high hot.

Some things that I have read are so intriguing concerning language. One small detail I heard about human physiology and verified is that clitoris is the same word in many languages. This shows a common source of language and how IMPORTANT this organ is considered in all subsequent cultures.... So far, Ior Bock is only verifying for me that the origin of our culture (including the fall out from decimation of the pagan world) can be understood more.

Thanks for the thread here. TOT looks like a forum for thoughtful conversation. Love, Maggie

Elen

12th November 2015, 18:25

Hi Maggie,

Thank you for the encouragement and kind words. I am always looking for clues, you know, just like yourself. The important thing is to try to forget everything they have taught us. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to join in the remote viewing just now, but it is a possibility in the future. I have dug up her e-mail address:

survivors@public-files.de

Make sure you give it a catchy heading, as I don’t think she reads all e-mails immediately, unless a good heading. Like, I want to do remote viewing, that would catch her attention!

When it comes to Ior Bock, I think he was given a smear campaign, to turn us against his message. All has been taken out of context. It’s a pattern they use and I recognise. When they want us to turn away, they tell us all sorts of nasty things, and of course people will get turned off, if they don’t think for themselves. It’s just a game, nothing more, and we have to figure this out, with the help of each other.

Also I want to add this for bsbray. I used to know somebody who had worked in the Coalmines in Svalbard, which is nearly at the North Pole. People from Norway would go there because the money was good and no tax. Anyway, this guy told me one day that they found traces of all sorts of tropical vegetation up there. Palm trees, he said and traces of any other tropical life. Sure it was warm up there. And in a coalmine is where it will be found.

Elen

bsbray

12th November 2015, 20:11

Also I want to add this for bsbray. I used to know somebody who had worked in the Coalmines in Svalbard, which is nearly at the North Pole. People from Norway would go there because the money was good and no tax. Anyway, this guy told me one day that they found traces of all sorts of tropical vegetation up there. Palm trees, he said and traces of any other tropical life. Sure it was warm up there. And in a coalmine is where it will be found.

There could be different reasons for how and why this may have been a tropical region in the past, but if we stick with the idea that the Earth formerly did not have a tilt or any seasons, then the question would come up: what made the Earth start tilting? I wonder if a massive comet impact to Montana might do the trick. If so then we have a tie-in to Graham Hancock's most recent research, regarding the comet impact to the scablands in Montana around 10,000 BC (or at least 10,000 BC according to conventional dating that Sylvie and her mentor Fomenko might disagree with). Maybe something to that, maybe not. It's just a thought.

Maggie

13th November 2015, 04:26

Hi Maggie,

When it comes to Ior Bock, I think he was given a smear campaign, to turn us against his message. All has been taken out of context. It’s a pattern they use and I recognise. When they want us to turn away, they tell us all sorts of nasty things, and of course people will get turned off, if they don’t think for themselves. It’s just a game, nothing more, and we have to figure this out, with the help of each other.

Elen

Hi Elen,
I will follow your lead to contact Sylvie. Thanks.
At this time, I am not too interested in remote viewing. I do not know why I am so drawn to piece the various clues together but I love this playing in all the possible ways that the ancient knowledge could help us now. I think that the ancient matriarchy and a different mind created a completely different context. As you siad, taking things out of context will twist the perspective.

The excuse for the destruction of the pagan world was that it served "God".... the Church of God controling the people. Why was homosexuality made by the Church to be so evil? How would a complex society practice population control wisely while sequestered in the Atlantis period? How would a people not so "individual" and more collective create a working tribe (division of labor like a beehive type system)?

I have been thinking a great deal about the FACT that the Matriarchy was overtaken by the Patriarchal system. It is a fact that the use of religion corrupted the people to turn against the traditional natural ways. Some very difficult experiences of the catyclysms that destroyed the global system is also associcated with the injury of catastrophobia in the human mind.

I am very inclined to think that the Bock Sa Ga is able to shed light on some breaks in the chain of sanity. As the devolving human collective forgot why they ever did what they did, we are left with weird assumptions of the reasons also. Worse we have adopted some very frightening habits because we are so disconneted with our own human needs. Eugenics where only certain people bear children is assumed to be wrong. Practices like that implied by a Universal homosexual way of experiencing sexuality are called evil barbaric perversions.

I personally was shocked by the details of how relationships were channeled to be same sex love affairs. The whole subject of gender and sexual preference still divides people all the time ideologically and culturally. IMO, we don't really KNOW what the truth is about how a natural human really behaves.

One of the ways that reigion has been a major human management system is through damning sexuality. The basic need of life to continue through child bearing and the pleasure of orgasm aside form procreation are givens in human life. Even before I came across the Bock saga, I was interested in the old ways. The gleaning from my limited knowledge is that pagans were considered licentious and wanton in physical pleasure seeking and sexual expression.

Small example form the bible http://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-3.htm

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For there has already been enough time spent in doing what the pagans choose to do: carrying on in unrestrained behavior, evil desires, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and lawless idolatry.

International Standard Version
For you spent enough time in the past doing what the gentiles like to do, living in sensuality, sinful desires, drunkenness, wild celebrations, drinking parties, and detestable idolatry.

NET Bible
For the time that has passed was sufficient for you to do what the non-Christians desire. You lived then in debauchery, evil desires, drunkenness, carousing, drinking bouts, and wanton idolatries.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For that past time was enough in which you served the pleasure of The Pagans, in debauchery, drunkenness, in whoredom, in orgies and in the worship of demons.

Elen

13th November 2015, 06:51

Hi Elen,
I will follow your lead to contact Sylvie. Thanks.
At this time, I am not too interested in remote viewing. I do not know why I am so drawn to piece the various clues together but I love this playing in all the possible ways that the ancient knowledge could help us now. I think that the ancient matriarchy and a different mind created a completely different context. As you siad, taking things out of context will twist the perspective.

The excuse for the destruction of the pagan world was that it served "God".... the Church of God controling the people. Why was homosexuality made by the Church to be so evil? How would a complex society practice population control wisely while sequestered in the Atlantis period? How would a people not so "individual" and more collective create a working tribe (division of labor like a beehive type system)?

I have been thinking a great deal about the FACT that the Matriarchy was overtaken by the Patriarchal system. It is a fact that the use of religion corrupted the people to turn against the traditional natural ways. Some very difficult experiences of the catyclysms that destroyed the global system is also associcated with the injury of catastrophobia in the human mind.

I am very inclined to think that the Bock Sa Ga is able to shed light on some breaks in the chain of sanity. As the devolving human collective forgot why they ever did what they did, we are left with weird assumptions of the reasons also. Worse we have adopted some very frightening habits because we are so disconneted with our own human needs. Eugenics where only certain people bear children is assumed to be wrong. Practices like that implied by a Universal homosexual way of experiencing sexuality are called evil barbaric perversions.

I personally was shocked by the details of how relationships were channeled to be same sex love affairs. The whole subject of gender and sexual preference still divides people all the time ideologically and culturally. IMO, we don't really KNOW what the truth is about how a natural human really behaves.

One of the ways that reigion has been a major human management system is through damning sexuality. The basic need of life to continue through child bearing and the pleasure of orgasm aside form procreation are givens in human life. Even before I came across the Bock saga, I was interested in the old ways. The gleaning from my limited knowledge is that pagans were considered licentious and wanton in physical pleasure seeking and sexual expression.

Small example form the bible http://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-3.htm

Well said Maggie, we have lost contact with how a natural human being should be like. We’ve lost our history and heritage, but not lost forever, because we have memories that we can access. DNA. We also have free will to choose and thereby we can choose all the nonsense away. Whatever we focus on will be created or recreated, this much we know.

And when that is said, we also have a Higher Self to reach for, which for some would seem like a god. Chris Thomas, Herbert’s thread on this forum, has inspired me in this way, as he explained the ratio of the Higher Self to us in the region of 10% to 25% (for some) and the aim is 90% and more. How good is that? Let your HS lead the way, that way we take responsibility for all our actions.

Religion is designed in such a way that you can never catch up on your sins, flaws and shortcomings. It’s just an overlay to take away your confidence, happiness and contact with your true self. The Pagans had rules and ethics, but they were different and we were free then.

Find your own space without distractions and find out how pure and loving you are. Nobody on the outside of you can show you this as it’s between you and your HS.

Take care now,
Elen

Elen

15th November 2015, 16:32

modwiz

15th November 2015, 18:04

Ior Bock
I can personally testify that the meaning of the words that he is showing, are correct. This is indeed the meaning of the sounds in Norwegian as well as Swedish. However Jim Chesnar isn’t Ior Bock and this story has been repeated for a very long time, and so there can be discrepancies. In Norwegian, HEL means WHOLE, and it is also the word for healing, “helbrede”. Yes, I believe that the church changed the meaning of this word.

Nice to find the real meaning of the Swastika as well, which is sulphur on a stick, i.e. “svovel-stikka”, put on top of a tree, representing the lights spreading after it was lit with fire. It would turn round and round, symbolising us, the people coming to the planet. Very nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMZHfDapoiU

Elen

I have this video and two others that went with it. Watched it all in one sitting and really enjoyed it and definitely saw how is could connect with the Survivors. Very interesting part was when he mentioned that St Petersburg in Russia was also not frozen and that would explain the high culture we see on display in that city, as shown in Sylvie's videos.

Elen

16th November 2015, 12:14

Thank you Modwiz for taking time to look into these things. It gives me hope for us.

If you have problems with sexual education according to the pagans, do not watch the second episode. I won’t post it here because of that fact. It is quite amazing how they decided who could make a child and who wasn’t allowed. They had strict rules to be followed. How the pagans died was very dignified and graceful in so many ways, they followed nature and knew when it was time to go. There are many details explaining the natural way of life, that we’ve lost contact with.

I’m absolutely sure that there is more to this story than what we can access at the moment.

Fast forward to the last video.

Things are making sense now. I’ve known this through my own memory of it, that the church has a lot to answer for and that the Vikings were just responding to attacks. Make up your own mind, it is OUR heritage, ALL OF US, not just mine alone. I like that Jim Chesnar does not claim that he remembers everything perfectly, nobody does, but you will get a glimps of something that we have forgotten. Thank you..

Elen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFT5AQX3Bek

Maggie

16th November 2015, 16:05

Things are making sense now. I’ve known this through my own memory of it, that the church has a lot to answer for and that the Vikings were just responding to attacks. Make up your own mind, it is OUR heritage, ALL OF US, not just mine alone.

Being a cultural product of the middle class USA focus on "how modern we are, how free, how smart", I used to think that we are now, just now, getting "enlightened". I had NO idea of how the crusades, the inquisition, the ragnarok, the erradication of all indigenous cultures were all connected.

I did know that "wise women" (like in my own family) who understood knowledge passed from mother to child (such as healing through herbs) had something important BUT I did not ask questions and missed the opportunity to learn much. This knowledge had to have been gathered over a long period of time. The loss of this heritage is IMO not assured but we cannot ignore that if we do not embrace the importance and use it and pass it on, it is GONE.

I am not sure that we need to resume the pagan fertility practices BUT at the same time, there is a present day focus on infertility. What IF the future of a viable human race was dependent on a whole different perspective than we have adopted? There is the possible split between human and trans-human timelines. I think we could POSSIBLY use the information in The Bock story to at least TALK about some prickly subjects.

One factor I am curious about....what does Consciousness have to do with these scenarios we create? What if we are wobbling like with a gryrosocpe between various extremes but it is for the good...to see how excess and ignorance operate? I am not going with a fundamnetal assumption that the present situation we have with our technology and even psychopathology and even the INSANITY is "wrong". What if it is just the way that we learn in spirals to balance sentient expression between self and a collective experience.

I would not fit in the model that is described as natural to the ringland order. I would not be happy at all. I am not sure I could even raise a child to live as is described...my own conditioning is too narrow.

In general, I see a schism that occurred in the past between the "collective group" model (like a bee hive) where as example only chosen "breeders" mated (definitely like a queen bee). It was the woman who chose her consort. The best woman and her choice for the succeeding generation. This would take a firm collective mind. It discounts individual choices.

I have read in the past that the matriarchal system had become oppressive with forced castration to prevent men from breeding. The idea is that there is cyclic swing when one imbalance causes a shift toward balance and results itself in imbalance? This is always spiraling out from the past experience and incorporating with ever more information. I see it as the 2 dimensional ouroborous.

Perhaps at a time of separation after catyclysm, the social order broke. The aftermath, when people were sequestered must have been chaotic. Breeding had been by strict protocol. But now a different imperative was to stay alive? The environment might have been a factor forcing the end of the strict control of the matriarchy (if this matriarchal model had been once widespread and accepted by all the ringlands)? Later the Asers returned from the north to reconnect all the tribes. They had "gone native" and they had a new issue where men had the control of breeding.

IMO we will always face breeding as a deep structure that we often cannot see as a driving force. If one has no children, one cannot seed the future. At this time, I have no real understanding of how all this information can be helpful but I am really glad some people here are able to look at it with curiosity. Thanks, Maggie

Elen

16th November 2015, 16:36

modwiz

16th November 2015, 17:27

Our modern minds have been altered and traditional storytelling, like the Bock Saga speak to a more nuanced and creative mind. These stories are not for fact gathering and analysis, as we have been conditioned to process ideas in an imbalanced fashion. They must be approached with a wholistic mindset. If approached holistically, there will be holes. We must also re-insert ourselves into a more natural world to appreciate what is being conveyed to us.

Elen

16th November 2015, 17:50

The ringland where it all began. I’ll let Jim tell the story here. Very interesting stuff all the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvRy_eYcnic

Elen

modwiz

16th November 2015, 17:57

Oh goody. Another one to watch. His delivery is special and enjoyable for me.

Elen

16th November 2015, 17:57

The rot language and what the alphabet was all about. The alphabet told a story, and this interesting by itself. I understand the rot language, and so I understand what he’s talking about. We have to get used to the rot language here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKrzJoToWi8

Elen

modwiz

16th November 2015, 18:58

Thanks for more Bock goodness, Elen.

Maggie

16th November 2015, 21:41

From October 20, 2015

In this episode of the Gnostic Warrior Radio Show and Podcast master traveler, researcher, and expert story teller Jim Chesnar shares with us the story of the beginning of the human race, and the various root races in the world today. The end of Ice Age broke this isolation and became a "new start" of humanity – since all the various populations could now be reached – and reach each other. Regaining contact with the various tropical kingdoms the Aser were instrumental in spreading a "root-system" of words, to develop a common ground for communication and exchange between the various cultures.
Jim also discusses the concepts of heaven and hell, and he says that hell was an actual place now known as Helsinki that was demonized later by the Church. Let's just say that it is as cold as hell there.http://gnosticwarrior.com/jim-chesnar-3.html

Edit:

Here is the podcast below,

http://content.blubrry.com/gnosticwarrior/Jim_Chesnar_2.mp3?_=1

Also

Published on Nov 15, 2015
In July, 2015 a group of people led by Jim Chesnar came to Finland. There they made a big trip to places connected with Bock Saga.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjIgfQFTOKs&feature=youtu.be

Elen

17th November 2015, 06:03

Thank you for the link, Maggie. I just listened to the interview and it’s good to see that Jim is still at it. I am glad that the Saga continues to this day. People have a hard time making sense of all of this, but if you dare to look it will be rewarding. I especially loved Ior’s dream.

Elen

By the way, I couldn't get the video up either, somebody sent me a link earlier.

Elen

17th November 2015, 06:38

Hi all,
I just managed to get it. I had to upgrade the flashplayer and now it worked. I haven't seen it yet, so I cannot comment on it. Just enjoy Jim's journey to Finland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjIgfQFTOKs#t=101

Elen

Elen

17th November 2015, 06:49

Just saying thank you Reno for sending me the link. :hugs:

reno

17th November 2015, 07:55

Always Elen , I love Bock saga !!:hug:

Dreamtimer

17th November 2015, 13:36

Maggie, your avatar picture is fantastic. What is the plant?

shire_dweller

17th November 2015, 14:00

I really don’t know how to conclude this yet, Maggie. So far I don’t think conclusions are wise because we haven’t remembered everything yet. If you put it all into a present setting, it would really make for chaos; we’re not there yet. The thing is we are looking for clues here at this stage. I’m not doing this for quick fixes, but I do feel that we have a chance to make sense of it all now. If we have less fear of men and more belief (knowledge) of ourselves, it won’t even be an issue.

I do love the fact that you’re brave enough to look into it though, besides bsbray, Modwiz and a few others. As a matter of fact lots and lots of visitors are. So, thank you visitors for looking into these things, I can feel that you are there sometimes.

Elen

Hello Elen,

It's been one of those days today, and British Telecom have only been letting me on the sites I didn't really want, lol, but I got registered eventually (thanks to The One for bearing with me) as I really wanted to thank you very much for leading me to the newearth youtube films and to the Bock Saga, which I am finding so very profound and which are 'ringing bells' for me. You know those times when everything ties up and makes more sense? With Finland, LoTR and true history coming together I could not resist! I've been drawn to Finland and LoTR for as long as I can remember. So, thank you for finding 'keys' for me.

Joanna

17th November 2015, 14:40

Thanks for posting about the Bock Saga, Elen, I'd never heard of it and found this interesting.
Re Lord of the Rings, and thinking about 'circles of life' spreading out from the Pole Star on Earth, or from Yggdrasil, the World Tree, in Tolkien's Midgard/Middle Earth 'myth', by the time of Lord of the Rings, all the rings (circles of life) had fallen into shadow, apart from three - around two of those 'rings' two small pools of paradise remained (Lothlorien and Rivendell) on Earth.
You may know Tolkien based his High Elven language Quenya on Finnish, and was well acquainted with the Scandinavian Eddas and Sagas - echoes of the Volsunga Saga and the Nibelunglied (the basis of Wagner's Ring Cycle) in particular can be seen in his 'world history', The Silmarillion. Elements of the Bock Saga, and the root language, I also feel are related...

Tolkien called the Elves 'Eldar', and in Elvish, 'El' means 'star' and 'dar' means 'people'...so he was saying the Elves were 'star people', literally. Your name, Elen, in Elvish, is 'star' and 'en' or 'wen' is a feminine name ending ie: 'Star lady'. :)

Here's an example of spoken Quenya - Galadriel's Farewell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahEJ20RwpD4

And if you're keen, this site Ardalambion (http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/) (Earth Tongues) is run by a very dedicated Norwegian.

Elen

17th November 2015, 16:59

modwiz

17th November 2015, 17:19

It is amusing to see the name Shire-dweller because I have referred to ToT as The Shire for a long time now, owing to its sleepy nature and certain other similarities in my mind.

Maggie

18th November 2015, 03:51

Maggie, your avatar picture is fantastic. What is the plant?

I think it's a lupine. Truthfully, I am certain the plant was posed but it is a great picture anyway.

Joanna

18th November 2015, 12:04

Shire Dweller, it is so nice to hear from you, I knew you were there amongst the visitors. I bid you welcome here, and this is your first post! Sits with me just fine. I think we should make this into a study of our past history. You would be a Hobbit, I suppose? Hobbits are most welcome here. I really know when things are making a lot of sense, dear Hobbit.

And thank you Joanna for your take on Tolkien. I will look up more of the stuff on the link. Tolkien really made an effort to give us our history back to us, and I appreciate it very much. We can figure this out together, not anybody alone can do it. We are in this together. Joanna, it’s very interesting with the Quenya language, it sounds very much like the Van language, i.e. Finnish as they speak it today, which was the outer ring. The very core of things was the Root language, the one that I understand. It is very interesting, indeed.

I appreciate your take on my name. It’s a Welsh name, meaning Light. It is my real name in this life.

'We are in this together.' I couldn't agree more, Elen...

The Asir/Aesir and Vanir, in Tolkien's mythopeia, became the Ainur, the Maiar...and the Vanyar, who were the elves who never left the Undying Land, Valinor (=Valhalla) for Middle Earth (=3D).
I feel Tolkien wrote stream of consciousness from his higher self in at least some of his work - like the core text of his whole sub-creation, the Lay of Leithian, a poem of many thousands of lines which he never finished, and wrote firstly in Elvish, then translated into English. Below is a photo from one of the pages of the Lay of Leithian as he originally wrote it...he was 'thinking' or consciousness-streaming in Elvish:

http://www.talkingabouttolkien.com/jpg/b3.jpg

The Lay of Leithian is the story of Luthien, an elven woman, and Beren, a mortal man, Elrond's grandparents. It was later written as a complete prose story within the Silmarillion, and if you want to feel the heart of Tolkien, this is it...for on his and his wife's headstone at their grave are carved the names 'Beren' and 'Luthien'....

About Ra and Maya - Jim Chesnar spoke of Maya meaning illusion, which is what is commonly stated. It may be worth noting that if you go back to the oldest layer of the Rig Veda, the sanskrit word Maya first meant an 'attribute' or 'power' of the gods, in a positive, benevolent sense. Later, its meaning shifted to illusion, which I feel relates to the drop in vibration of the Earth...what was once a power for good became seen/experienced under the veil of illusion....
The Root Word As/Asir/Aesir is related to the sanskrit word for god, 'Asura', and 'Ahura', in the Avestan language of the Zoroastrians. There is a significant distinction between the two; in the Zoroastrian religion (Middle East), the Ahuras were the loving gods, and their 'dark counterpart' was the daevas/divs/dews (devils), who were false gods 'to be avoided'. But in Hinduism, the Asuras (like the change in the word Maya) were good early on, then later seen as evil, while the devas became the 'good'. In the Middle East, this reversal didn't happen. Another interesting thing about Zoroastrianism, their prime creator god, Ahura Mazda was both masculine and feminine merged (Ahura = masc 'god' and Mazda = fem 'wise'), which is rare in monotheisms...

modwiz

18th November 2015, 13:16

What I refer to as primitive Zoroastrianism is very dear to me and my mystic consciousness. By primitive, I refer to the "religion" as it was practiced while Zoroaster was alive. Like any religion, as soon as its inspiration is gone, the encrustations of the followers quickly adhere to the teachings. There wer no evil devas. They were divided into two groups however. Ones who gave good counsel and those who gave counsel that would lead to unpleasant ramifications in life. It was advised to ignore the latter and give them no heed or energy. Sort of like Jesus' saying "Resist not evil". Evil finds its power through the doings of mankind and all we have to do is ignore bad ideas. Like a body with a healthy immune system that is not susceptible to viruses. A virus cannot replicate itself, it must find a cell to do it bidding. That is, follow its bad counsel/ideas.

I really enjoyed your breakdown of similar words and their roots, Joanna. I believe Tolkien was "channeling" memories of the Survivor culture, which most likely descends from the Original Race spoken of in the Bock Saga.

Joanna

19th November 2015, 07:59

Modwiz: What I refer to as primitive Zoroastrianism is very dear to me and my mystic consciousness. By primitive, I refer to the "religion" as it was practiced while Zoroaster was alive. Like any religion, as soon as its inspiration is gone, the encrustations of the followers quickly adhere to the teachings. There wer no evil devas. They were divided into two groups however. Ones who gave good counsel and those who gave counsel that would lead to unpleasant ramifications in life. It was advised to ignore the latter and give them no heed or energy. Sort of like Jesus' saying "Resist not evil". Evil finds its power through the doings of mankind and all we have to do is ignore bad ideas. Like a body with a healthy immune system that is not susceptible to viruses. A virus cannot replicate itself, it must find a cell to do it bidding. That is, follow its bad counsel/ideas.

Modwiz, that is really profound. They already had the understanding that 'what you resist persists' and that focus creates connection, an energetic connection to whatever it is you focus your attention on....so when it came to the false 'lying gods', avoid them, ignore them, give them no energetic pathway to connect with your consciousness and turn you into a 'host cell'....
It doesn't mean saying they don't exist, like an ostrich with its head in the sand - just to know to direct your focus to what is beneficial, uplifting etc...

I really enjoyed your breakdown of similar words and their roots, Joanna. I believe Tolkien was "channeling" memories of the Survivor culture, which most likely descends from the Original Race spoken of in the Bock Saga.

I believe he was too, Modwiz. He also used conscious detailing, which may be in some sense 'prophetic' as well as 'memory'. For instance he wrote a 'version' of Freya's necklace, the Brisingamen (it would be interesting to see how that translates from the Root Language) which he called the 'Nauglamir', a necklace which contained a Silmaril (a jewel of prime creation light, basically). I won't go into the whole story of it here, but suffice to say the events surrounding the Nauglamir ultimately brought the creator gods (Ainur/Valar) back to Middle Earth, specifically to oust Sauron's master Melkor (Morgoth), who had taken control of the Earth....

Freya wearing the Brisingamen:

http://norse-mythology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/freyja3.jpg

shire_dweller

19th November 2015, 08:14

Elen, yes, a hobbit at heart. Modwiz, I wonder if you've ever used the term 'shire-dweller' and it's stuck in my subconscious, and reading here always makes me think of LoTR so I plumped for that name. I'm not much of a poster, no confidence, but read a lot and will keep doing so.

When I was reading shadowself's thread on time travel and Egypt synchronicities were coming at me at about the speed of light, it was such a strange day, and I find that a lot with ToT site, so if you don't mind I'll probably read more than I contribute, but thanks to all for the stimulation and help on the journey. I don't care if it's a cliche, it IS a journey. :)

Joanna

19th November 2015, 08:20

Dreamtimer

19th November 2015, 11:42

Maggie

20th November 2015, 18:50

A couple of new postings:

Bock Saga - Jim Chesnar And Michel Merle near Lemminkäinen Temple

https://youtu.be/11jE_4lXBcE

(For some reason I cannot get the video embedded???)

Bock Saga - Michel Merle Telling about Root Language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3DKRiSfO5I

Elen

21st November 2015, 16:06

Thank you Maggie for posting that, I haven’t watched it yet, but I’ll watch it now.

Here is another video showing a light conversation amongst friends, near the Lemminkäinen Temple. I really hope they can get into it soon.

I get it now; this is our root, this where we come from. They made sure that we had good roots, to bring forward to our present. In other words, we’re from good stock, and now with that knowledge we can build what we are going to be in the future. Thank you Ior Bock for that alone. We will never go back to the old ways, but I’m sure that was never expected in the first place. We will be very strong when we remember who we are, indeed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11jE_4lXBcE

Elen

Joanna

22nd November 2015, 03:12

You guys keep this up and I'm gonna have to pull out the box set and have a LOTR marathon!

I must confess that as a young adult I could not read the Silmarion. My friend Al told me to just skip the first 100 pages and go from there. (I couldn't deal w/all the begats).

Dreamtimer, lol, yes it's not the easiest read! The first part is a creation myth, then the later part, about how the elves fared - the ones who left the Undying Lands and came to Middle Earth (ie; left higher dimensions to explore/experience lower/slower ones). I haven't had time to watch more than the first 3 vids on Elen's Atlantean Survivors thread, so won't comment over there, but will say here that the stories of the elves who went to Middle Earth has much akin with the concept of the flight from Atlantis, and the hounding of those folk wherever they went by darkened souls (orcs, balrogs, dragons and other servants of Morgoth, including Sauron).
Also, there's one section in The Silmarillion that follows the fortunes of a human group, lead by Elendil (Aragorn's forefather) to Middle Earth's main continent after their paradise island Numenor succumbed to a tsunami event, which was a more direct Atlantis story.

Joanna

22nd November 2015, 04:14

I feel to say something here about the North Pole, the Pole Star alignment, and the rings within rings on a more cosmic scale, as Polaris is mentioned as the North Pole alignment in the Bock material. Polaris sits at the end of the Big Dipper in the constellation Ursa Minor (Little Bear), and is of course Earth's current Pole Star. However, because of the precession of the equinoxes, the Pole Star - that which is aligned mostly closely with True North of the Earth's axis - has changed many times, and will continue to do so. 5000 years ago, Thuban (Alpha Draconis) was the Pole Star. In less than a thousand years from now, Gamma Cephei (Alrai, from Arabic, the Shepherd) of the Cepheus constellation will be closer to Earth's North Pole alignment than Polaris. By 10 000 CE, Deneb, alpha star of Cygnus, the Swan, will be within an few degrees of the pole. And in 13 000 CE, the alpha star of the Lyra Constellation, Vega, will be the Pole Star.
This signifies a cycle, a ring that is in a 26 000 year completion process that culminates in Vega. Lyra, by the way, contains a very beautiful 'symbol' of the cycle, the Ring of Lyra. For what it's worth, in my 'cosmic memory', human life originated on a planet of the star Vega. Earth is a much much later 'creative settlement'. I know people have different views about dates concerning the fall of Atlantis; from my perspective the very last part of the Atlantean continent (Poseidia) went underwater 13 000 years ago, and we now sit at the midpoint of the turn of the cycle, where Earth's axis will align once more in another 13 000 years with humankind's original home.

On looking up which will be the next Pole Star, to find it is Alrai/Gamma Cephei is in sync with what I am currently focussing on, regarding the return of the 'lost 13th sign of the zodiac', the constellation Ophiucus (the Babylonians erased it, and we will be in its 'vibrational window' very soon, which crosses over with Sagittarius, from Nov. 27 to Dec 19, before it was removed and we were left with the 12 point zodiac). Ophiucus, or Kelb Alrai, is called the 'Shepherd's Dog'. Polaris sits at the end of the Dog's Tail (Ursa Minor was seen in ancient times as a dog rather than a bear), and Alrai, the Shepherd, re-turns as the next Pole Star....

The deeper 'universal' Yggdrasil isn't an ash tree in a graveyard that can be cut down by human hands - that's a localized reflection of the energy of disconnection from the life force of Source/Creation. Rings within rings; inner rings, and outer rings of reflection, so many of them...

Tolkien wrote of nine rings given to mortal men (3 to the elves, 7 to the dwarves) - they were subsumed by the power of the One Ring, and those men became the Ringwraiths - and their leader, the Witchking of Angmar, was a 'Black Numenorian', meaning one of the escaped dark priesthood of Atlantis.

The Ring of Lyra:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/M57_The_Ring_Nebula.JPG

http://astrobob.areavoices.com/astrobob/images/Lyra_guided_1.jpg

Novusod

22nd November 2015, 09:39

modwiz

22nd November 2015, 09:48

Dreamtimer, lol, yes it's not the easiest read! The first part is a creation myth, then the later part, about how the elves fared - the ones who left the Undying Lands and came to Middle Earth (ie; left higher dimensions to explore/experience lower/slower ones). I haven't had time to watch more than the first 3 vids on Elen's Atlantean Survivors thread, so won't comment over there, but will say here that the stories of the elves who went to Middle Earth has much akin with the concept of the flight from Atlantis, and the hounding of those folk wherever they went by darkened souls (orcs, balrogs, dragons and other servants of Morgoth, including Sauron).
Also, there's one section in The Silmarillion that follows the fortunes of a human group, lead by Elendil (Aragorn's forefather) to Middle Earth's main continent after their paradise island Numenor succumbed to a tsunami event, which was a more direct Atlantis story.

Numenor was destroyed by the Valar or Iluvatar because Men broke agreements and understandings.

Joanna

22nd November 2015, 11:16

How can you skip the first 100 pages? The Tolkien creation myth is incredible.

Here is a surprisingly well done video showing a good chunk of that first 100 pages you missed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy7a6yUc8zo

Novusod, thanks for posting that vid - beautiful envisioning of the Ainulindale!

Joanna

22nd November 2015, 11:24

Numenor was destroyed by the Valar or Iluvatar because Men broke agreements and understandings.

Yes, I can't remember whether it was destroyed by the Valar at Iluvatar's order, or by the Prime Creator him/itself, modwiz. Sauron (who could still take form at that point) went to Numenor and twisted the minds of those who were susceptible against the Valar. He seeded in their minds a distorted picture of the creator beings, that they were cruel and power hungry, and suppressing mankind, depriving them of immortal life. Sounds really familiar, somehow. Patterns have a way of repeating.............
Some of the Numenorians, however, didn't fall for Sauron's 'advice', of whom Elendil was the chief. They foresaw that Numenor/Atlantis would fall, and prepared their ship in secret to evacuate if need be, landed in Middle Earth, and sought to rebuild their culture....
Numenor fell after the King allowed Sauron (or at Sauron's bidding?) cut down the White Tree - again, the felling of a sacred tree precedes the collapse of a culture/disconnection from the divine.

I'll correct something I said above about Luthien too - she was part elven and part Maiar - an order of angelic beings who were the helpers of the Ainur. The Istari (the wizards - Gandal, Saruman, Radagast etc) were of that order too.

Dreamtimer

23rd November 2015, 01:47

Joanna

23rd November 2015, 06:54

Novusod, that was when I was younger and I did revisit it. Thank you for the video. I look forward to watching it.

Joanne, my aforementioned friend would have a field day talking with you about this.

Ironically, my parents both encouraged me to read the Hobbit and the Trilogy. When the movies came out my dad went to see them and didn't like them. He said they were too violent and all everyone did was fight. I said I thought he'd read the books. He said he never had. My parents were both such avid readers, it was kind of weird.

Haha, well if there'd been LOTR forums back in the late 1970s-80s when I was really into all things Middle Earth, I would have been on them! :)

The movies were beautiful but heavy on battle-scenes compared to reading the books, imo. I would have preferred to see the Old Forest and the Withywindle in there, Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, the Barrow-downs, Faramir as he was in the book (the one human untempted by the Ring). But they did add some beautiful things into the movies, and it was good to see so much Elvish in there. ;)

jcocks

23rd November 2015, 07:15

Very interesting! Though I have to say, I watch the first video of the bock saga and I couldn't get into it... It sounds much like the stories of the aboriginal people in the way it's told. I guess it doesn't sit well with my scientific mind.

My gut tells me those people were possibly closer to the like of the Lemurians, being closer to nature than the atlanteans, if we are to believe what has been written about them.

I'm currently reading a book by Laurence Gardner, called "Realm of the Ring Lords : Beyond the portal of the twilight world"... which goes into much the same information. Interestingly enough, Laurence also places much of Atlantis within the european continent and beyond. Upon doing some research on him, I found out that Laurence was also killed in 2010, quite possibly because of the research he was doing.

I'd have to say I believe we're closer to finding out our true history than we have ever been before, at least in this epoch.

Dreamtimer

23rd November 2015, 12:19

Jcocks, I sure hope you're right. More power to the people bringing our origins and history to light!

I've been coming across ring references night and day. Enough for the synchronicity thread.

Dreamtimer

23rd November 2015, 12:33

Modwiz, as Elrond said, "Men are weak."

Let us leave the quest for power behind and embrace each other and the life and light we have in brother/sisterhood and respect.

This is very difficult for some...

modwiz

23rd November 2015, 13:11

Dreamtimer, For some reason the forum will not let me reply to your post in typical fashion. Not sure why you speak to me thus. My form of respect is to speak to adults as adults and not the emotional children they might be. Men are weak because they seek power over things rather than themselves. When Jesus said to "Judge not, lest ye be judged" he was speaking to the hypocritical Pharisees. I believe in ascertaining where a person stands and do judge them because I invite them to do the same to me. Being real with each other might assist people in growing. Or else, they can go off and sulk.

Dreamtimer

23rd November 2015, 19:16

Modwiz, I wasn't implying that you don't respect people. I was actually referring to your comment about the destruction of Numenor because "men broke agreements and understanding". I failed to quote you, apologies.

I believe Elrond was not making particular reference to gender. In Tolkien's day it was a 'man's world'.

I've read your own definitions of what wisdom is (that you posted) and I've watched how you demonstrate it.

modwiz

23rd November 2015, 20:36

Dreamtimer

23rd November 2015, 20:40

Thanks. I appreciate that, Modwiz. I'm anxious to get back to a computer so I can post fully. The phone has limits.

modwiz

23rd November 2015, 20:49

Thanks. I appreciate that, Modwiz. I'm anxious to get back to a computer so I can post fully. The phone has limits.

You're welcome, and I say it with all sincerity. You all bring good minds and balanced emotions to the mix. It isn't that we always agree and that works. A healthy dialogue is always had and consistently good content comes from you people. Aragorn has been a great Administrator too. I am very pleased with all of you. For what my opinion is worth.:group hug:

modwiz

23rd November 2015, 20:58

Haha, well if there'd been LOTR forums back in the late 1970s-80s when I was really into all things Middle Earth, I would have been on them! :)

The movies were beautiful but heavy on battle-scenes compared to reading the books, imo. I would have preferred to see the Old Forest and the Withywindle in there, Tom Bombadil and Goldberry, the Barrow-downs, Faramir as he was in the book (the one human untempted by the Ring). But they did add some beautiful things into the movies, and it was good to see so much Elvish in there. ;)

I agree about the movies, Joanna, and it is why I enjoyed the extended versions. They had story content and expansion, the kind of things thoughtful people enjoy. As much of a fan of Tolkien's work that Jackson is, he is a movie maker first. I accept that about him and content myself with the vision of Middle Earth he gave us. The actors he chose all gave great performances and his direction was part of that.

Joanna

24th November 2015, 07:26

I agree about the movies, Joanna, and it is why I enjoyed the extended versions. They had story content and expansion, the kind of things thoughtful people enjoy. As much of a fan of Tolkien's work that Jackson is, he is a movie maker first. I accept that about him and content myself with the vision of Middle Earth he gave us. The actors he chose all gave great performances and his direction was part of that.

You're right, modwiz, he approached the books as a moviemaker, and the 'adds' not from the books make for filmic/dramatic pace etc. I also enjoyed the extended versions - and was glad to see the additions in the extended Hobbit movies too, such as the symbolic, pivotal moment of the white stag in Mirkwood. The actors were all marvellous, and the designers - much loving attention to detail went into those films. People get so passionate about Middle Earth - it has such a strong 'internal reality' that relies not on the story itself, but on the cultures, landscapes, and underpinning 'mythic history' that seeps through, constantly...

Elen

24th November 2015, 07:41

Yes, LOTR has taken on a life of it’s own. Why it so compelling must be the fact that it’s based on our history, cleverly hidden in “fiction”. It wets our appetite for mystery and a longing for our true nature, which I am convinced, is good.

Thank you modwiz for your kind word about the mod team, it’s all based on respect for each other. Aragorn is the best that could have happened to TOT. Wish him well, as he is ill at the moment.

Elen

Joanna

24th November 2015, 09:54

Maggie

25th November 2015, 19:17

There are other old sources of lore. The Oera Linda Book ("http://sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/index.htm") is one. It is purported to range over 4000 years and explains an ancient matriarchal culture that was decimated. It describes a Fryan/ Frisian history.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Frisians.png

Frisia or Friesland[1] is a coastal region along the southeastern corner of the North Sea in what today is mostly a large part of the Netherlands, including modern Friesland, and smaller parts of Germany. Frisia is the traditional homeland of the Frisians, a Germanic people who speak Frisian, a language group closely related to the English language.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia

Interesting in terms of the Rot language also being "like" our modern English.

A 1941 Dutch film about Immortal Symbols....

https://youtu.be/boeWSFCuY24

A few more Oera Linda videos after this one for those interested....
https://youtu.be/SNpWMbOsDwU

also note the longer video in this post.

Root language and esoteric numerology (http://jandeane81.com/threads/8229-Root-language-and-esoteric-numerology?p=841941501&viewfull=1#post841941501)

There was said to be a Fryan Federation (sounds like the same thing as the Survivors??)

http://impactsurvivors.com/images/chapter2.jpg

The Oera Linda book comments in youtube led me to a book that looks interesting? IMO the different leads re all pointing to the remnant versions of "Chronicles from pre-Celtic Europe: (Survivors of the Great Tsunami)" (http://impactsurvivors.com/synopsis.html).

The book examines an ancient manuscript discovered in the Netherlands in 1867. The manuscript was subsequently declared a fraud by Dutch linguists and parroted by historians. By now comparing this manuscript with numerous authors from antiquity, as well as testing the claims made in it against modern sciences such as archaeology, paleoclimatolgy, genetics, linguistics, oceanography and many more, the manuscript was found to be true in every instance. These modern discoveries were yet to be made in the 19th century when the manuscript first came into the public domain. Europe’s "Rosetta Stone" had been found.

The reader is taken on a journey to examine the memoirs and reports of men and women from Western Europe who suffered the biggest catastrophe in the recorded history of mankind; the catastrophe that killed millions and became known as "The Deluge" or "Noah’s Flood" . The manuscript reflects the sagas and adventures of these people as they led other survivors of the disaster from all over the world out of the Stone- and Bronze Ages into the Iron Age.

The pioneers from Europe’s western seaboard founded the ancient civilizations from Greece to Persia. They introduced the world to carbonized steel, chariot warfare, cavalry charges astronomy and mathematics. They gave man the "Greek alphabet", "Indo-Arabian numerals", democracy, free enterprise and monotheism. Four thousand years ago they even tried their hand at arms control and nature conservation.

The author provides maps and satellite images as proof of the existence of this forgotten civilization whose extent was greater than that of the European Union. The reader is also presented with ancient maps and irrefutable photographic evidence of an inhabited land the size of Britain which now lies more than 1000 meters below the cold waters of the North Atlantic.

The startling but well substantiated disclosures in "Survivors of the Great Tsunami" suggest that hereto accepted European, Asian and World history had been severely compromised in the past. For too long have historians, linguists, geneticists and others denied the pivotal role that Western Europe had played in early world history. Their legacy is incalculable. It is time they get their due recognition or, as Homer put it, "their due meed of glory"......

http://impactsurvivors.com/images/homePic2.jpg

It happened on the night of Wednesday, 21 October 2193 BC. The Burckle asteroid, one of many, struck the Indian Ocean 1500 kilometers south-east of Madagascar with the force of several million nuclear warheads. Planet earth shuddered and tilted on her axis. Tectonic plates shook and rocked violently on the planet’s built-in shock absorber - the underlying magma. Around the globe volcanoes erupted. Tsunamis from the impact and from thousands of earthquakes sped around the earth in a frenzy of destruction as earth adjusted to her new rotation axis. Trillions of tons of sea water and superheated steam were flung into the stratosphere. The wall of water from the impact towered hundreds of meters above the ocean as it raced towards land.

On the East Coast of China it was already mid-morning and in India dawn was breaking. From Europe to the Middle East people were blissfully asleep. First came the violent tremors followed by the air blast and the unimaginable mountains of water. Cities, towns and forests were crushed and swept away in an instant. Obliterated. Millions died. In the darkness they could not see it coming. They never knew what hit them.

In China the Hongsan Culture came to an end. In Egypt the Old Kingdom, the builders of the great pyramids, was destroyed. The Indus Valley Civilization in Pakistan and India was wiped out and in the Middle East the Empire of Akkad ceased to exist. Man came to the brink of extinction. All that remained were the myths, folklore and legends. More than four thousand years later archaeologists would discover their relics in the sand.

On wrangle Island in the Arctic Ocean the last Mammoths died out and in Europe the most advanced civilization on the face of the earth seemingly disappeared without a trace. Seemingly…

This is their story – incredible but true.

"The first law for the historian is that he shall never dare utter an untruth. The second is that he shall suppress nothing that is true. Moreover, there shall be no suspicion of partiality in his writing, or of malice."

Marcus Tullius Cicero (106-43 BC) –De Oratore II, 62.

Maggie

25th November 2015, 20:44

I know that the thread is about how the Bock Saga leads on to the LOTR. My favorite parts of the whole was the Shire life of Hobbits. Maybe in a way it is the sense of living without strife? I have posted the same information I am bringing in this post elsewhere but thought it relevant and maybe interesting? There seems real interest in this forum for the topics I am pursuing.

I am certain that overwhelming psychologic impacts of traumatizing assault (from catastrophes natural and man made) are humanity's challenge. I think that there was not ONE ELE episode but many. I have been investigating the history of these events. Graham Hancock and Randall Carlson have highlighted one around 13,000 years ago. IMO this was not the latest one that threw civilization into survival mode and had us trade our freedom for a safety net (though a misnomer).

The following are some thoughts I have had about some historic influences and also where valuable continuing threads of information may be stored. I was reminded by the Oera Linda information of a recent dating 2193 BCE. This is very close to another date 3100 BCE that has been called the "Biblical Flood".

The long time frame after the event 12,800 years ago to the approximate 2193 to 3100 BCE date is rather daunting to me. What I am interested in is evidence of threads of the qualitative that distinguished the Survivors and the Atlantis/Lemurian (I call them that) remnant cultures. I think that we have threads to gather.

I think the LOTR shows one glimpse of the Pagan world and the gentleman/gentlewoman (i.e. Gentile, heathen) groups that did not lose their minds in Two or more catastrophes....

THE FINGERPRINT OF A GLOBAL CATACLYSM 12,800 YEARS AGO

http://sacredgeometryinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/YDB_Field.jpg

The graphic shows the vast swathe of our planet that geologists call the Younger Dryas Boundary Field. Across this huge “fingerprint” spanning North America, Central America, parts of South America and most of Europe, the tell-tale traces of multiple impacts by the fragments of a giant comet have been found. Some of these fragments, were TWO KILOMETRES or more in diameter and they hit the earth like a blast from a cosmic scatter-gun around 12,800 years ago.December 4, 2014 at 1:36 pm
The Fingerprint of Global Cataclysm 12,800 Years Ago – Graham Hancock – Magicians of The Gods Preview (http://sacredgeometryinternational.com/magicians_of_the_gods_graham_hancock_preview_finge rprint)

Daughter civilizations after 3100 BC in Egypt in South America and Africa and Europe have many similarities pointed out elsewhere in abundance....such as in this video: Berbers or Slavs? So much culture in common that they could not really be independent.

Nzt-leWyGwU

I think that after 3100 BC, the offspring (several) civilizations started over again with help from Survivors. After the flood people still used the hydrologic works, megalithic structures and produced some beautiful and amazing works of art we have seen. But there was a difference in capacity and what we could do was less than before. Perhaps the great Survivor culture remained in the Russian Horde until wiped out by by ignorance as the Kali Yuga turned?

Atlantis/Lemuria is what I will call the culture dating from before the precession time period of Taurus. Plato dates the destruction of Atlantis as being around 12,800 years ago as does Graham Hancock. I think the culture itself survived globally in pockets. Then we have something about the Age of Taurus that is not fully assessed.

There was a flood in around 3100 BCE associated with sudden worldwide loss of civilization. It flooded all but high places where suddenly we have agriculture arise in the mountain areas.

Bull veneration (Taurus) takes place among a high but IMO NOT megalithic culture after that period. I wonder if there is a link to the Taurid meteors in veneration of bulls?

"I THINK": We have the daughter cultures of after the flood in around 3100 BC. I think that that is "our recorded history" Examples all over the world share common roots that are related to the remnants of the GREAT civilization from before the Great Flood. First we had the event 12,800 or so years ago, there was a sancturary in Hyperborea perhaps? Life continued and thousands of years passed....THEN I think we had the "Flood" that was a wipeout. In dating events, I think astrology/astronomy and geology will help us.

The Taurean Age was the time of the "flood" we read about in our bibles. It was 5,000 years ago for the latest "catyclysm", not 12,000 years ago.

The Age of Taurus
Symbol for Taurus: Sacred bull

Zodiacal sign: the vernal equinox (northern hemisphere) is occurring in Taurus;

Timeframes
Zodiacal 30 degrees:
Neil Mann interpretation: began ca. 4300 BC and ended ca. 2150 BC
Patrick Burlingame interpretation: began ca. 4006 BC and ended ca. 2006 BC
Constellation boundary year:
Shephard Simpson interpretation: began ca. 4525 BC and ended ca. 1875 BC

Overview
"The Age of Earth, Agriculture, and the Bull" This age is claimed to have occurred approximately around the time of the building of the Pyramids in Egypt.

Religious similarities
Bull worshiping cults began to form in Assyria, Egypt, and Crete during this mythological age.

Ankh: thoracic vertebra of a bull - Egyptian symbol of life
Worship of Apis, the bull-deity (see also Bull (mythology)), the most important of all the sacred animals in Egypt, said to be instituted during the Second Dynasty of the Early Dynastic Period of Egypt and worshipped in the Memphis region until the New Kingdom (16th century BC).
When Moses was said to have descended from the mountain with the ten commandments (c. 17th – 13th century BC, the end of the Age of Taurus), some of his people or followers were found by him to be worshipping a golden bull calf. He instructed these worshippers to be killed. This represents Moses "killing" the bull and ending the Age of Taurus, and ushering in the Age of Aries, which he represents.

In 3100 BC, during the age of Taurus serious catyclysmic events may have occurred from meteors known as the Taurid meteors.

"The outrageous suggestion that I am going to make is that the Taurid Complex was producing phenomenal meteor storms between 4,500 and 5,000 years ago, accompanied by multiple Tunguska-class atmospheric detonations, and that Stonehenge I was designed to allow the (awestruck, terrified) culture of southern England to make observations of the Phenomena and to perhaps predict their recurrence. Peter Lancaster Brown, in his book on megalithic sites, wrote that "Eclipses, comets and meteorites were astronomical phenomena widely observed by the ancients. But probably only eclipses were predictable." (Steel means to imply that Stonehenge I was needed to make observations because meteorite falls are far more unpredictable, but and at the same time may be long-lasting and recurring. - TN.)

Steel continues this theme in Peiser et al.: Natural Catastrophes (Oxford, 1998) by commenting that he sees no connection between the original Stonehenge I (built in 3100 BC) and the thousand year later Stonehenge II and Stonehenge III except the place. The original one was a scientific observatory, not for Sun, or Moon, or eclipses, but for watching dangerous meteorites, asteroids and comets. The later Stonehenges with their stones (the image of Stonehenge that we have of it today), was more that of a ritual and sanctuary than for any practical/scientific purpose. Of course it could be used for some trivial astronomical calculations (solstices, eclipses), but its original purpose was hardly known for the later builders. The world's first scientific astronomical observatory changed to a ritual place, because it was not anymore needed for its original purpose when the Taurids did not at that moment bother mankind, in fact the Taurids lived only in legends. Today the legends are coming part of a serious scientific study. What a change in paradigm!

Rogue Asteroids: "Comet Encke is associated with the Taurid Complex. If we follow the orbit of P/Encke backward, we find that it intersected that of the Earth around 1,800 and 5,000 years ago (ascending) and 2,100 and 4,700 years ago (descending)."

The Taurid complex is a comet/meteor swarm complex, whose main body is the periodic comet Encke with an unknown number of meteoroid swarms plus possibly some small body pieces. When the Taurid complex intersected Earth 5000 years ago, maybe around 3100 BC, it may have caused a 100 year long period of tunguskans and mini-tunguskans.

Clube and Napier have already in their legendary "The Cosmic Winter" (Oxford (UK), Cambridge (US), 1990) told the Taurid story:

"It seems clear that we are looking at debris from the breakup of an extremely large object. The disintegration, or sequence of disintegrations, must have taken place within the past twenty or thirty thousand years as otherwise the asteroids would have spread around the inner planetary system and be no longer recognizable as a stream.

"The second discovery, due mainly to the Czechoslovakian astronomer Stohl, is that enveloping the Taurids, Comet Encke and these particular asteroids is a broad tube of meteoric debris. ... The Stohl stream is apparently double due probably to an exceptional fragmentation... The mass of the meteoric material within the Stohl stream is 10 or 20 billion tonnes. ... Adding in the mass of gas and very fine dust ... we find that the original body must have been about 100 kilometres across. ... Backtracking the orbits of Encke and Oljato, we find that 9500 years ago their orbits were nearly identical. It is possible there was a major disintegration of the prime body then, with much debris created of which Comet Encke and Oljato are the largest known bodies ... Oljato itself is in an orbit which brought it virtually into the Earth's orbital plane for some centuries around 3000-3500 BC."

Was it Oljato's tail that swarmed Earth around 3100 BC? Did it have a partner or is Swift-Tuttle a part of a parent body of both or did the parent body disintgrate into three parts: Oljate, Swift-Tuttle and a third part that rained on Earth 13 August 3114 BC, the Mayan day zero?

Darwin was not wrong while saying that evolution is the survival of the fittest, but today we must add that evolution is the survival of the fittest of the luckiest. The Third Millennium BC (3100-2100 BC) (http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari2.htm#edda)

To understand as much of the threads as we can of the Survivor cultures on every continent together IMO could really help us reconnect to our human will. There are themes we can decipher that empower us.

This interview with Klaus Dona is a classic (thank you Bill Ryan). I think he is showing artifacts maybe even dating to BEFORE the 12,800 event.

XmMwo1Xzgus

I am not attached to what Fomenko and others think are specific events but I think the history we learned has ignored the true global state of the world in the recent millenium. I think we can look to the same"kind" (BUT NOT AS GLOBAL OR INTENSE) of issues as with the cataclysm of 3100 BC.

Woodcut commemorating 4TH CENTURY cometary evets from Stanilaus Lubienietski's Theatrum Cometicum (Amsterdam, 1668)
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/69319main_comets_woodcarving-lg.jpg

I have a post here about the comets.

MAYBE ITS COMETS COMETS COMETS all the way down?? (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?72458-Atlantis-off-the-Americas&p=933623&viewfull=1#post933623)

I consider this source of earth changes to be important because they were not always catastrophic but influenced people.

Italy, 345 BCE: A ‘shower of stones rained down and darkness filled the sky during daylight’ (Livy 7, 28) and Rome contemplated the omen with considerable apprehension. In crucial matters of state such as this there was only one thing to do. They consulted the Sibylline Books, or Libri Sibillini, a collection of oracular utterances acquired by Tarquinius Superbus, the last king of Rome. The sacred texts were acquired from a sibyl, a Pagan priestess who prophesied at sacred sites while under the influence of drugs and the divine influence of a deity, often a woman of established social order, known reverently as a ‘bee goddess’..........

................Nearly one hundred and fifty years had passed since the last ‘shower of stones rained down’ on Rome, but return they did. The year was 205 BCE and the Second Punic War, known as the War Against Hannibal, was coming to a close. Reports were widespread of ‘frequently falling rocks’ in the region and the phenomenon was creating religious fervour throughout the land. The meteorites had returned.THE GODDESS WHO FELL TO EARTH
(http://andrewgough.co.uk/goddess/)

Along with the Bull, there is also veneration of the Bee in the ancient Taurus time frame. The myths show that after the Flood, we had "ark"s and life ensuring qualities and technology were taught by holy people.

I think that REAL and healthful spiritual veneration and connection to God/Goddess (meaning reverence, not necessarily worship) is of an earth based natural kind. Medicines, knowledge of agriculture, hygiene, animal husbandry was all a SACRED lifestyle of the Wise Ones. This was SYSTEMATICALLY attacked by the rulers. The Heathen world was destroyed.

What about this legacy of evidence of veneration of the Bee? IMO there are sources to investigate that look at the way that the Bee and agriculture informed the remnants of Survivor cultures. I want just share some things that interested me about the bee and veneration across the world.

LOST TRADITION OF THE SACRED BEE (http://dev.atlantisrisingmagazine.com/article/lost-tradition-of-the-sacred-bee/)
Incredibly, bees over 100 million years old have been discovered in amber, frozen in time, as if immortalized in their own honey. The Greeks called amber Electron, associated with the Sun God Elector, who was known as the awakener, a term also given to honey—which resembles amber—a regenerative substance revered across the ancient world. This association led to the bees’ illustrious status amongst ancient man, exalting their fossilized remains over the preserved vestiges of all other insects.

Prehistory is full of clues that hint at ancient man’s obsession with bees. In the Cave of the Spider near Valencia in Spain, a 15,000-year-old painting depicts a determined looking figure risking his life to extract honey from a precarious, cliff-side beehive. Honey hunting represents one of man’s earliest hunter / gatherer pursuits—its very difficulty hinting at the genesis of the bee’s adoration in prehistory. And, of course, it was the bee that led ancient shamans to the plants whose hallucinogens transported their consciousness into the spirit world of the gods. Curiously, recent research has revealed that the sound of a bee’s hum has been observed during moments of change in the state of human consciousness, including individuals who have experienced alleged UFO abductions, apparitions, and near death experiences. Was this phenomenon known by the ancients and believed to have been one of the elements that made the bee special?

Honey Hunting in Spain

In Anatolia, a 10,000-year-old statue of the Mother Goddess adorned in a yellow and orange Beehive-style tiara has led scholars to the conclusion that the Mother Goddess had begun to morph into the Queen Bee, or bee goddess, around this time. At the Neolithic settlement of Catal Huyuk, rudimentary images of bees dating to 6540 BC are painted above the head of a Goddess in the form of a halo; and beehives are stylistically portrayed on the walls of sacred temples. Not surprisingly, it was the Sumerians who soon emerged as the forefathers of organized bee keeping. Mesopotamia—modern day Iraq—flourished from the early sixth century BC and is known as the cradle of civilization; and it is here that the Sumerians invented Apitherapy, or the medical use of bee products such as honey, pollen, royal jelly, propolis, and venom.

Sumerian reliefs depicting the adoration of extraordinary winged figures have often been interpreted by alternative history writers as proof of extraterrestrial intervention. In the context of the benefits of beekeeping, it is more likely they depict the veneration of bees. Significantly, the Sumerian images gave rise to the dancing goddess motif, a female dancer with her arms arched over her head that scholars believe represents a bee goddess priestess or shaman. The motif, which would become central to Egyptian symbolism, appears to allude to the bee’s unique ability to communicate through dance, the waggle dance as it is known, or the ability to locate food up to three miles from home and return to communicate its whereabouts to the hive through dance, sort of prehistoric satellite navigation.

So, society had discovered the immense value that bees provide, ten thousand years ago or more, back in the mist of prehistory. As life along the River Nile evolved and Dynastic rule in ancient Egypt slowly developed, the seeds of bee veneration had already been sown. But the tradition was about to be embraced like never before, or since.

The Bee Goddess in Ancient Egypt

Egyptologists, such as David Rohl, believe that Sumerian culture migrated across the Eastern Egyptian Desert and into the Nile Valley. This desolate expanse of Wadis is renowned for its pre-dynastic rock art depicting exalted-looking figures with exaggerated plume-like decorations. The unusual lines extending upwards from the main figures’ heads recall the antenna of the bee while hinting at the shape of the plumes that would characterize the headdress of Egyptian Kingship for thousands of years to come. The images also depict the Dancing Goddess motif, a woman with her hands bowed over her head just as the ‘dancing’ bee Goddess had been depicted in Sumerian and Central European reliefs thousands of years earlier. The icon is widespread in Egyptian mythology and appears to have originated from an understanding of the bee’s unique ability to communicate through ‘dance.’

Another clue to the bee’s artistic influence can be found in ceremonial Egyptian dress, which has certain stylistic similarities with the bee, namely the headdress, or nemes, which consists of alternating yellow and dark horizontal stripes. This visual synchronicity is discernible in many reliefs and sculptures but is perhaps best illustrated in the death mask of the 18th Dynasty Pharaoh, Tutankhamen, which famously depicts the Pharaoh adorned in alternating black and yellow stripes or bands, just like a bee.

The Egyptian Death Mask

Egypt’s fascination with bees stems from the earliest of epochs. Northern Egypt, or the land stretching from the Delta to Memphis, was known as “Ta-Bitty,” or “the land of the bee.” King Menes, founder of the First Egyptian Dynasty, was bestowed with the office of “Beekeeper”, a title ascribed to all subsequent Pharaohs, and an image of the bee was positioned next to the Pharaoh’s cartouche.

The Egyptian God Min was known as the ‘Master of the Wild Bees’ and dates to 3000 BC or earlier. Similarly, the Egyptian Goddess Neith was a warrior deity also possessing fertility symbolism and virginal mother qualities, all attributes of the Queen bee. In Sais, Neith was regarded as the Goddess of the ‘House of the Bee’ and the Mother of RA, the ‘the ruler of all’. Egyptian mythology contains countless references to bees, including the belief that they were formed from the tears of the most important god in its pantheon, RA. The bee is even featured on the Rosetta Stone.

Bees are portrayed on the walls of Egyptian tombs, and offerings of honey were routinely presented to the most important Egyptian deities. Indeed, honey was the ‘nectar of the gods,’ and like the Sumerians before them, Egyptian physicians relied on its medicinal value for many important remedies and procedures, including early forms of mummification.

One Egyptian monument that exhibits a peculiar form of bee symbolism is the Saqqara step pyramid, which recalls the six-sided shape of a bee’s honeycomb, with six levels above ground and one very special level below—the Apis bull necropolis known as the Serapeum. Egyptologists believe that the Apis bull was bestowed with the regenerative qualities of the Memphite god Ptah—the Egyptian god of reincarnation. They also believed that those who inhaled the breath of the Apis bull received the gift of prophesy; and perhaps most importantly of all, the Egyptians believed that the bull was transformed into Osiris Apis, after death. ‘Bee’ in Latin is ‘Apis’, which may have derived from Sipa / Asipa in Mesopotamia; Sipa meaning ‘Great Shepherd in the Sky’ and Apis meaning Osiris. This relates to the belief that after death, the Pharaoh’s soul joined Osiris as a star in the constellation of Orion.

Legend tells us that an Apis bull produced 1000 bees, and that the bees represented souls. Intriguingly, the Egyptian Goddess Nut was the goddess of the sky—the domain of bees—and keeper of the title She Who Holds a Thou*sand Souls, which appears to refer to the 1000 bees—or souls—that are regenerated from the body of an Apis bull.

Similarly, the Hebrew letter Alef | Aleph carries the meaning ‘thousand’ and both the Proto-Sinatic Hieroglyphic and its Pro-Canaanite symbol depict a bull’s head, alluding to the fact that 1000 bees—or resurrected souls, are produced by the sacrifice of an Apis bull. Additionally, Christ—the saviour archetype of Osiris, renowned for his resurrection, is written in Hebrew as ‘QRST’ and carries the value 1000.

The ancient belief that bees were born of bulls leads me to think that the underground necropolis known as the Serapeum may have been a ritual center of regeneration designed to recycle souls from the heads of bulls, and not simply a mausoleum for bulls. Might the rituals carried out in the Serapeum represent the earliest form of Mithraism, the Roman mystery religion involving the ritualistic slaughter of bulls?

Another ancient culture influenced by the ancient Egyptians was the Minoan, a civilization with close ties to the ancient Egyptians who were experts in beekeeping, a craft they later imparted to the Greeks. This leads us to another fascinating aspect of Egyptian bee symbolism; the Sphinx, the famed rock-hewn statue known by the Egyptians as Hun nb, but re-named Sphinx by the Greeks. How does all this relate to the bee? Quite simply, the Minoan word for bee was ‘sphex’ (Hilda Ransome, The Sacred Bee P64, 1937).

So what can we conclude from this revelation? The civilization that educated the Greeks in the craft of beekeeping used the word ‘sphex’ to describe the bee—and the Greeks named the goddess-like rock statue ‘Sphinx’. Was the Sphinx already present when Menes first established Kingship and was it known that the Sphinx represented a bee goddess, hence the Pharaoh’s title, Beekeeper? The possibility is tantalizing, and given the Egyptians fascination with bees, not altogether far-fetched.

The Lost Tradition

The influence of Sumerian and Egyptian bee veneration spread to Greece, where Greek mythology depicted bees on the statues of their most important gods and goddesses and evolved the notion of bee Goddesses into the honored position of female bee shamans called Melissa’s, which later morphed into the sacred status of Sybil’s. In fact, the second temple at Delphi is said to have been made entirely by bees, and the great oracle stone resembling a hive encircled with bees.

The Omphalos and Bee Veneration?

The Romans practiced Mithraism, a secret religion predicated on the ritualistic slaughter of bulls that is reminiscent of Egyptian bull / bee rituals that were performed in the underground temple known as the Serapeum. Curiously, the practice appears to have been preserved in modern times in the controversial sport of Bullfighting, and many of Spain’s oldest bullrings are built on or near Mithras temples, confirming the association.

Mayan culture venerated the bee and depicted gods in its image in their most sacred temples; and as far away as India religions adopted bee gods and goddess into their mythology. Even the Catholic Church incorporated the bee as a symbol of the Pope’s authority; evidence of which can be seen in Vatican City today.

Beehive-styled stone huts were constructed in antiquity from Ireland to Africa, and many places in-between, such as Germany, where Heinrich Himmler, the most powerful man in Germany after Adolf Hitler, constructed the SS’s most sacred ritual chamber in the shape of a beehive in the basement of the 17th century Wewelsburg Castle.

Political movements, such as Communism, drew upon the altruistic behavior exhibited in a beehive as a blueprint for their ideologies;while rulers such as Napoleon followed the tradition of their ancestors, in this instance, the long-haired Kings of France known as the Merovingian’s—believed by some to represent the bloodline of Christ—whose famous King Childeric was discovered buried with 300 bees made of solid gold.

Precursor to the Fleur-de-lys

Not only did Napoleon ensure that the symbol of the bee was infused in the decor and style of the royal court, and greater society, he adopted ‘The Bee’ as his own nickname. It is also believed that the bee was the precursor to the fleur-de-lys, the national emblem of France. The theory is supported by many, including the French physician, antiquary, and archaeologist Jean-Jacques Chifflet. In fact Louis XII, the 35th King of France, was known as ‘the father of the pope’ and featured a beehive in his Coat of Arms.

And then there is the strange tale of Pierre Plantard, a Frenchman who in the later half of the 20th century promoted his association with the Merovingian’s and was regarded by some as the last direct descendant of Jesus Christ. Plantard claimed to have been a Grand Master of the Priory of Sion, a controversial society with considerable interests in the Merovingian lineages commissioned by Napoleon. Curiously, Plantard’s family crest featured both the fleur-de-lys and the bee, and he is purported to have written, ‘we are the beekeepers’ in his private correspondences.

French Freemasonry soon spread to the United States of America, aided by early American forefathers such as Thomas Jefferson, who wrote passionately about the importance of bees, while others such as President George Wash*ington featured the beehive on his Masonic apron. In no uncertain terms, early American society borrowed many of its philosophical principles from Freemasonry, which had incorporated bee symbolism and themes into its rituals, and established its government on the orderly, stable and altruistic behavior exhibited in a beehive, like societies and movements before them had for thousand of years.

An indication of the bee’s importance to early American forefathers is expressed in the fact that the entire Western Region of the United States was originally named Deseret (honeybee). Not surprisingly, folk culture embraced the bee, and the concept of ‘telling bees’ about the death of a loved one became common practice. The Austrian philosopher and esotericist Rudolf Steiner (1861 – 1925) wrote and lectured extensively on the bee and predicted its demise in just under a 100 years time, right about now. So too did Albert Einstein (1879 – 1955) predict the demise of the bee. The famed physicist is attributed with having said;

“If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man.”

Archaeologist Marija Gimbutas (1921 - 1994) writes of this passage by Porphyry: “...we learn that Artemis is a bee, Melissa, and that both she and the bull belong to the moon. Hence both are connected with the idea of a periodic regeneration. We also learn that souls are bees and that Melissa draws souls down to be born. The idea of a ‘life in death’ in this singularly interesting concept is expressed by the belief that the life of the bull passed into that of the bees.”

How did these titles of Melissa for the Great Mother and her priestesses as Melissae come about? The Melissae may have inherited their title from an old order of nymphs - to this day the larva of bees are called nymphs! Priestesses of the Bee: The Melissae (http://mirrorofisis.freeyellow.com/id576.html)

The Bee featured prominently in another ancient culture – the Dogon, a tribe from the West African region of Mali whose Nommo ancestors and Sirian mythology were made famous by Robert Temple in his book, The Sirius Mystery. The Dogon belief system is ancient, and until approximately 140 AD, its zodiac featured the Bee as the symbol of the constellation presently occupied by Libra. The Bee’s position in the Dogon Zodiac is significant to esoteric thought leaders such as Cabalists, who recognize the Bee’s role in establishing balance and harmony in the zodiac – and in life. Curiously, two of the most common Dogon symbols resemble schematized figures identified by Marija Gimbutas as Bees; one is associated with vital food supplies and the other with reincarnation. Together, the Dogon images reflect the essence of the Bee’s perceived value in ancient times.THE BEE: PART 1 – BEEDAZZLED (http://andrewgough.co.uk/articles_bee1/)
http://andrewgough.co.uk/bee_comp4.jpg

Goddess wearing a beehive tiara from Turkey, circa 8000 BC
http://andrewgough.co.uk/P1010.jpg

Pythia – the ‘Delphic Bee’ sitting on the Delphic Tripod Cauldron
http://andrewgough.co.uk/P2016.jpg

Minoan Bee Goddess laden with honey
http://andrewgough.co.uk/P2012.jpg

Beekeeping in Russian Forests (http://beelore.com/2010/01/19/beekeeping-in-russian-forests/)

We think in this age of beekeeping as a small time pursuit for either the small business or for some form of esoteric pass-time. In the past bee-keeping was anything but that. As an industry in Eastern Europe it probably reached a climax around 1200-1400. The reason that Eastern Europe was probably much better at producing honey than the west was simply that it had larger relatively undisturbed forests…. Or at least the forests had a smaller head of both human and domesticated animal population. Large quantities of grazing will eventually produce grass, whereas a smaller quantity of grazing will induce flowering ground cover and ideal areas for bees.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/97/bf/52/97bf52ffa4fc7503ea2e02ce70ce8645.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/86/a6/20/86a6201aad87e1a89eabc260286e71f7.jpg

The Germans in classical times used to venerate their beekeepers (this reference I can not find) and they achieved a priest like significance within their tribes. I could never quite get my head around this until I understood the economic significance of honey as well. Most of the following comes from Studies in Historical Geography (1983 Volume 1 (Academic Press) edited by Bater and French). The particular essay is Russians and the Forest by R.A. French p23-44.

French talks of the vast quantities of berries that could be picked by the peasants of Russia with productive areas producing up to 100kg/hectare of berries (bilberries and cowberries) per year as well as up to half a ton of mushrooms etc. However the honey was the most impressive with one village in 1599, Oreshenko in Belorussia having 1044 “bee-trees” listed in their records. 94 were oak and 950 were pine. 99 swarms were counted with an occupancy of roughly 10:1. In other parts the occupancy got as high as 6:1.

Bees made it into the Russian law books in the 12th century when the law codes, Russaya Pravda, were produced. In 1529 Lithuanian statutes also laid don laws against bee-tree destruction, determining that you could not go too close when ploughing or damage the tree by fire. In economic terms bees provided the most valuable forest resource and was one of the key drivers to eventual Russian expansion into Siberia.

Just how important was this industry? It was a major trading commodity in both Russia and Lithuania. As an example one nobleman, one Prince Suyatoslav of Kiev, had a honey store, in 1146, that totalled 500 berkovtsy, or 80 tonnes. At some times peasants were supposed to give half their honey takings to the crown in Russia, so honey became the business of everyone from peasant to csar.

In some areas peasants were employed to look after the crown’s bee-trees, and even in making new ones. (This was done by hacking out appropriate hollows in the trees.) The volume of honey produced was one thing but also beeswax was bought and sold as well. In the sixteenth century Customs Rolls of boats going down the river Neman to Konigsberg 600tonnes of beeswax was recorded as having passed by in just 6 weeks. Even in the 18th century the trade continued with the expansion towards the south and east and prime honey lands were moving east and south with the expansion. At that time the Province of Voronezh was exporting 900tonnes of honey per year. It was thus not really difficult to see why both the peasant and the aristocracy were interested in bees.

With the expansion of Russia in the 16th to 20th centuries one finds the forest quality of the interior diminishing and thus the bee-farming being pushed more often than not towards the frontiers. Here the “natural” (I am not a fan of this word as it implies no human interference, which is rubbish) forest was less disturbed and the berries still proliferated and thus was the perfect bee place. The more livestock the less bees I am assuming.

Maggie

26th November 2015, 04:13

In my researh that led to the post above, I have thought about the role of comets in general and catastrophobia in the collective as a partial theme for "forgetting" our expanded sense connection with earth and one another (becoming withdrawn and individual). The focus IMO shifted from intentional cooperation with nature to control over. we lost awareness of elementals, being in tune with and harmonizing with nature, maintaining community health with a focus on organic breeding (a positive and nurturing theme). From the Bock Saga, the SAME language concerning the breeding system now appears as a description of making war.

Ior bock told in 1984 already that there was a civilization before the ice time. Now they have scientific proof, which they can not deny anymore. But this is just the beginning, because the funny thing is that this age old society ( what the Bock Saga is about )functioned in a complete different way than ours, but that all the customs are still found in our language. Take for example the word “infanterie” we think immediately, army unit. But the word comes from Root language and there the word infant = child erie = the planting of an oak tree.

The oak tree was the symbol of the human, so infanterie means literally the organisation for the making of children. That is something else than the killing of children.

§14: lansier is also a military term that means nowadays ” knight with lans “, as the famous Lancelot ( an English hero who used his lance a lot ) . In Root lansier means : he that makes children with his lans (penis). Take the word “militair”. In Root: eater of meal ( mil etér ). Every man used every morning his arm to let his “i” spit. The letter “i” means in Root: penis. The dot on the i = the sperm. He thus used his arm to masturbate and next to eat his sperm (armi). Every man in the ancient times started the day with the eating of this meal ( meal eater = mil etér = militair ). In the infanterie though, the militair sacrificed this meal to the lancier, whom got sperm from the whole regime, with which he made the kar woman pregnant. This woman also had the sav or mahla ( the juice which a healthy woman produces when she comes ) of all the women in the regime inside her.

§ 15: In the heathen (pagan) time ( hedning = from the head ) every woman and every man started the day with an orgasm, after which the man swallowed his sperm and the woman swallowed her mahla. Before the making of a child they used this mil etér system, in which they used their “weapons” to create. The making of children went completely different than nowadays ( was a completely different procedure ).

You hear now that more and more marriages fall apart. It seems family-life is disappearing. nowadays it is mother and child. Dad is far away ( out of sight ), men use their weapons to destroy. If somebody aims his bow and arrow on you, you get shocked. If the arrow goes through you, you are dead. But Cupido had a bow and arrow, with which he did not kill, but he made children. Every weapon always has two opposing associations. Look at the English with their pis tol Root: tool to ****, if the Englishman is enough he can shoot his load. He uses his artillerie. In Root language: ART = human species, the letter i stands for penis. Le means “smile”, Le you pronounce as in the French “soleil” (sun). Only if you say LE your mouth smiles ( SU means mouth in Van or Finnish ). So Soleil means literally smiling mouth. RIE means repeatment. ART-I-LE-RIE is thus the human being that comes smiling everyday and gives his load to the infanterie.

Offering system, Sauna knot

§ 16: All weapons have this erotic meaning. When I say that he has a canon in his trousers, everybody knows what I mean. Still we always choose the destructive side. That is for real, the rest is sign language. In the pagan times they needed an army of at least 11111 men, though, whom gave their sperm to the Lancier to make ONE child. But also 11111 women that donated their juices to the future mother. In total 22224 humans ( including the man and the woman that in the end totally loaded **** to make the child ). It could be much more, because everybody could co-operate to the future child. Such a child has thus many parents. Everybody feels this way in a way responsible for a child because they part-take physically in his or her being.

§ 17: You understand that I became dizzy when I first heard this. It sounded unbelievable. Ior told me that every child from its seventh year on learned to take its’ genitals in the mouth. You have to be quite supple for this. If you learn this from your seventh year though, it is difficult to get rid of, of course. Every morning every woman and man would suck her/himself. What a way to start your day. Not a doip of this treasured moist would get lost.

The military system to make children works as follows. Every regime ( I am not going to explain every word now, otherwise we will get stuck, but you can count on that in Root it all has to do with the making of children ), existed of 1000 men, parted in divisions of ten. The lowest range existed from ten Rondeliers, they were wearing a red pointy hat and had a white cord with on one side a sort of little noose on the other side a knot. The rope fitted exactly in between two stretched arms. They collected sperm from the CIVIL (seed-carriers), yes civilization means seed-carriers. If the time to make children came again, you could visit such a Rondelier. Instead of taking your own penis in your mouth, you put it in his mouth and you offered your sperm.

§ 18: Not everybody was destined to make children though. The Rondelier would look first at what kind of penis you had, if you had a lans or a club. A lans has a thick base and the head is thin. You see this best when you do not have an erection. If you do have an erection you can have a sword or a sable, straight or crooked. If you have a club it can be big or small. A big one is called “slegge” – that is where our word sledgehammer is derived from. You need two hands to hold it. Men with a lans do not have the right to offer in this fertilizing system.

Frej månne, Gotland
Frej, Gotland

Only the clubs belong to this club. The lances make the children in the end. If the Rondelier was sucking a club donor and received his sperm, he would get the cord and would make a knot. The distance between two knots would show the length of the penis. If he sucked ten he would go to the Rondasier to give him his semen. The Rondasier would receive the semen of 11 men at once. After that he would get the cord, untie the knots braid a yellow thread inside. After that the Rondelier could start again.

§ 19: If you have collected the sperm of ten men, then your sperm has turned more yellow. The yellowier the cord, the more sperm he would have gotten. The Rondasier would get 11 men per shot inside. If he had 10 X 11 inside he would go to the Capten ( = the head in which 10 Rondasiers load their semen ). Every Capten (captain) gets thus the seed of 1110 men. With this he goes to the Hillebardier or Översten. Översten ( over ten ) would get all the yellow sperm of ten captens.

You see: this has nothing to do with war anymore. We live with the vision that war is part of the history of mankind. With the Bock Saga we see that war is something from the last few thousand years, but that there is a huge era before that in which all these words and expressions are being associated with something else. Old stories from famous cultures, in which weapons and soldiers took part, are mostly symbolic and are wrongly, because always violently explained presently. Soldier means Sol Diare – drinker of the soul (sperm).Million Years of Peace (http://torshammer.eu/heathen-library/high-time-for-the-heathen-times-million-years-of-peace/)

1. The beginning of our "recorded" (therefore being recorded, it has been artificially shaped) history at around 3100 BCE. This was the reset after global series of catyclysm

3,200 BC- 3,100 BC.

According to Duncan Steele four comets one month apart made terrestial orbit intersections with the Earth in 3,100 BC.

One theory states that the comet Proto-Encke made its closest pass to the Earth in 3,100 BC.

Clube and Napier postulate that between 3,500 BC and 3,000 BC an asteroid known as Olijato had repeated close encounters with the Earth. Clube and Olijato thought that Olijato was a fragment of a larger comet that broke up around 4,000 years earlier.

Around 3,150 BC there was a massive electromagnetic surge in the earth’s atmosphere that effected the earth’s magnetic field. This could have been caused by a collision with a cosmic body.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Atlantic Ocean.

Between 3,200 BC and 3,000 BC there were two centuries of rapid drying and cooling as Atlantic Ocean circulation apparently shut down again. The Gulf Stream may have stopped again.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Australia. Northern Territory.

The Henbury Meteorite Crater is in the Northern Territory of Australia and is five hundred feet wide and is dated to 3,100 BC.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Azores.

There was massive vulcanism in the Azores around 3,100 BC.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Babylon.

Berosus the Chaldean or Babylonian historian wrote about the Great Flood and that it occurred on the 15th day in the month of Daisios or June 15th 3,116 BC.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. China.

Chinese mythology mentions that the Emperor Fu Hsi arrived after the Great Flood which occurred around 2,950 BC.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Egypt.

Professor Ioannis Liritzis of the University of Rhodes in the Greek Islands found evidence that a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea in 3,150 BC.

Egyptologist Peter Clayton gives a starting date of 3,150 BC for the beginning of Egyptian civilization.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Egypt. Sinai Peninsula. 34.00e,

29.00n. 34e29n.

The plateau of the Sinai Peninsula is covered with formations of basalt lava. There are also wide stretches of the Arabian Desert that also glisten with lava. Lava formations interspersed with extinguished volcanoes stretch from the vicinity of Palmyra in Jordan southward into Arabia as far as Mecca. These volcanoes only became extinct a few thousand years ago. Was this last occurrence during one of the Cataclysms?

There are also vast fields of burnt sharp stones here on what was fertile well watered land prior to the appearance of the strange stones. This is the same as in Arabia, which is just across the Gulf of Aquaba.

The Sinai Desert is today covered with blackened stones that are scattered across the landscape and for which there is no known reason unless it is the Biblical one. At Har Karkom, Jebel Ideid, a sacred mountain community dating back to 3,000 BC, there are many boulders several feet in size that have been mysteriously blackened and on which numerous ancient travelers have etched signs and symbols. The rocks are blackened only on the surface.

On the large mountain plateau of Har Kerkom, also in Sinai, the top is covered in an expanse of black stone fragments known to the locals as hamada. In some places in ancient times the hamada layer has been cleared to form what are called hut circles.

The blackened rocks in the Sinai resemble volcanic rocks but there are no volcanoes in the area now.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. England.

A dust veil event happened in Ireland and England. This is the abrupt appearance of massive amounts of ash in the atmosphere. This is from tree rings from the period of 3,100 BC. There is increased cosmic dust falling.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Greenland.

An ice core recovered from Camp Century showed an acidity spike which indicated that there was a large increase in falling ash world wide in 3,100 BC.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Iceland.

There was a peak in vulcanism in Iceland in 3,100 BC at Mount Hiemay. This was coincidentally with vulcanism in the Azores at the same time due south of Iceland?

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. India.

In the Vishnu Purana there is mention of the lost city of Dwarka which was governed by Krishna which was thought to have been on a large island off the northwest coast of India. Dwarka was submerged by a suddenly rising ocean at the dawn of the Age of Kali which according to the Vishnu Purana was in 3,102 BC.

Other Indian scriptures mention the submerged city of Mahabilipuram that was totally swallowed up by the sea in a great flood. This city was a copy of the palace of the Gods which its architect and ruler had visited. The Great god Indra commanded the submerging of the city by convening all of the other dieities of Heaven to call down watery judgement on the blasphemous inhabitants. Mahabilipuram meant “City of the Great Giant”.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Ireland.

A dust veil event happened in Ireland and England. This is the abrupt appearance of massive amounts of ash in the atmosphere. This is from tree rings from the period of 3,100 BC. There is increased cosmic dust falling.

Tree rings in Ireland indicate enormous ashfall around 3,150 BC.

According to Mike Baillie, a dendrochronologist at Queens University in Belfast in Northern Ireland there was a major temperature trough worldwide around 3,150 BC. Baillie had constructed an Irish bog oak dendochronology spanning the period from 5,000 BC to 1,000 AD. The Irish bog oaks showed a pattern of narrow rings, indicating extremely minimal growth, around 3,150 BC. In fact the rings were so narrow that Baillie could barely measure them indicating that weather conditions had been catastrophic. These narrow rings covered most of the 1,620s and unlike a major volcanic eruption lasted almost a decade. Even the largest volcanic eruptions only produce nuclear winter conditions for around three years. Baillie then compared his bog oak data against Greenland ice cores and a number of dates lined up indicated by ice core acid layers. These major weather events, much larger than volcanic induced nuclear winter conditions, occurred within thirty years of 210 BC, fifty years of 1,120 BC, ninety years of 3,150 BC and one hundred years of 4,400 BC. When new data was published in 1987 it showed another major acid layer within twenty years of 1,645 BC.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Israel.

For no known reason the Dead Sea rose 300 feet around 3,100 BC.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Mediterranean Sea.

The direction of the Earth’s magnetic field abruptly changed in 3,150 BC when a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea.

Professor Ioannis Liritzis of the University of Rhodes in the Greek Islands found evidence that a comet hit the Mediterranean Sea in 3,150 BC.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Mexico.

The Mayan calendar was founded on August 10th 3,113 BC by Kukulkan the great Civilizer. Other sources state August 12th. In Egypt this date when Gods and men sailed from their sinking island home and arrived in the Nile Delta was around 3,100 BC. The Babylonians had a date of 3,116 BC when Oannes the fish headed god arrived and brought civilization to Sumeria. Incidentally in Indian Mythology, from India, Dwarka was submerged by a suddenly rising ocean at the dawn of the Age of Kali which according to the Vishnu Purana was in 3,102 BC.

Kukulkan arrived after the “Hun yecil” the Drowning of the Trees which covered the world.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Peru.

Glaciologist Lonnie Thompson has accumulated evidence that indicates that there was a major change in Earth’s climate approximately 5,200 years ago. By studying plants released by the Quelccaya Ice cap in the Peruvian Andes Thompson found by carbon dating them that they were suddenly buried alive by ice around 3,200 BC. How accurate is carbon dating though?

Around 3,150 BC the climate of Peru changed suddenly from that of a warm and wet and tropical climate to a different climate that was colder, dryer and less tropical. The Aspero pyramids were built at this same time.

Cataclysm2. 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Sri Lanka.

The Tamil people of Sri Lanka and southern India remember their ancestors coming to Sri Lanka after their island kingdom called Nawalam perished in the sea a long time ago.

Cataclysm2: 3,200 BC- 3,100 BC. Taiwan.

Massive flooding in Taiwan forced Austronesians who are members of an archeological group called the Dawenkou and inhabited Shandong and Jiangsu to leave Taiwan and travel south to the Philippines. These are the ancestors of the proto-Malay groups of people and languages.
Proofs of Catyclysms. (https://sites.google.com/site/georgemitrovicauthor/proofs-of-cataclysms)

2.The themes of cattle (like sacred Bull) and sacred bees appear to me as possibly contrasting symbolic elements? Does it denote the nomadic versus "settled" life styles? That is just one possible way they show polarity.

I think that this struggle, strife, protection and defense and warring came out of FEAR, severe deprivation and loss. It may have awakened desire to control (from catastrophobia's reactions). The power of self regulation must have felt lost IMO. IMO THAT led to a need to "regulate". There would have been a need to regroup and terror and hardship unbelievable.

Thanks for letting me share this interest here. Maggie

Novusod

27th November 2015, 06:36

Maggie:

Ior bock told in 1984 already that there was a civilization before the ice time. Now they have scientific proof, which they can not deny anymore. But this is just the beginning, because the funny thing is that this age old society ( what the Bock Saga is about )functioned in a complete different way than ours, but that all the customs are still found in our language. Take for example the word “infanterie” we think immediately, army unit. But the word comes from Root language and there the word infant = child erie = the planting of an oak tree.

Essentially Ior Bock is correct but this example is not. In the root language an "erie" is a bird.

For example infant erie is could be ducklings or chicks following their mother.
http://i.imgur.com/6vh109Y.jpg

Don't the ducklings appear to be marching in formation the same as human Infantry units?
NOW it makes sense.

The root language is a very visual language. They just didn't just say things. They saw things and used their 3rd eye to come up with abstractions. Some military commander in ancient times could have said to his men "You are my ducklings and follow me as the chicks do." Instead of using the word duckling he said "Infant Erie" and the men knew what he was talking about. The term then became infantry and the original meaning of the term was lost over time. It is not so much a malevolent twisting but a forgetting of our root language.

Take the word “militair”. In Root: eater of meal ( mil etér ). Every man used every morning his arm to let his “i” spit. The letter “i” means in Root: penis. The dot on the i = the sperm. He thus used his arm to masturbate and next to eat his sperm (armi). Every man in the ancient times started the day with the eating of this meal ( meal eater = mil etér = militair ).

Milit in the root language is "grain." Millet is the oldest cereal crop grown since the dawn of agriculture. It is where the surname "Miller" comes from. Miller doesn't mean military, it means grain. A militair would simply be a farm hand or harvester. The harvest would be brought in with a sickle. After which the seeds would be split from the chaff. The "i" does mean split but it is referring to the splitting of grain seeds from the stalks. You can't eat the stalks but they did eat the grain. After the grain was separated the women would grind the grain and mix it with yeast to make bread.

There are quite a few sayings in old sagas about the great warriors cutting their foes down like wheat stalks. The hero felled the enemy like so much chaff stalks. I believe the analogy to be fairly literal in that the warriors were using their farm tools to hack down their foes as if they were harvesting millet. Eating sperm doesn't make any sense but eating grain does. They military men were millet harvesters when they weren't at war.

In Egypt the sickle sword was called a Khopesh and it evolved directly from farm implements.
http://getasword.com/3841-thickbox_default/egyptian-khopesh-sword-black.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/tkRISjJ.jpg
It was also noted by the Romans that the barbarians of Europe were still using curved sickle swords. It hearkens back to the old concept the farm hand as warrior that existed before professional armies. After wars it was common for swords to be turned back into farm implements. Farming, fighting, and eating grain were all linked together by the word "millet" which was the main cereal crop of the root people.
http://i60.tinypic.com/2nkutt2.jpg

Elen

27th November 2015, 07:33

Jengelen

27th November 2015, 11:46

I find it interesting that there is evidence of a 'groin holding' cult from Gobekli Tepe to Easter Island to South America and some of the information provided by Ior Bock seems to make sense of how and why this groin cult would have existed. If one were to tie the two together you can see a baby making cult with some worship of a god holding his penis in places at all these geographic locations. Someone had to take it there by sea. Gee I wonder who?

Further, if we follow cutlery in the Himalayas and beyond what did they make famous? The Khukri which is nothing more than a take off of the sickle, a farm implement. I guess I see no reason to suspect that some sex cult could accompany farmers. Even in society today various subsets exist within each segment of society. So it stands to reason there would be some deviance or perhaps to them it was normal but you what I mean. I doubt the story about the boys and girls sucking themselves off. That seems too twisted in someone else's idea not realistic. I would imagine it was involving some cult of worship that somehow twisted itself into that. Sounds like the gossip going down the line diluted the tale to me here. Maybe its just wishful thinking.

Maggie

27th November 2015, 17:04

Thanks for “ducking in” Novusod, good clarification, pun intended. ;) Also another clarification, the Finnish language is Van language, not Root language. Root language is the inner circle, and Van the outer circle. I.e. it’s a derivation from, and not the same as. I can say that, because I understand the Root language, the Van language not a single word.

Elen

YES! Novusod thanks.

"The root language is a very visual language. They just didn't just say things. They saw things and used their 3rd eye to come up with abstractions."

Could you please expand on this statement?

Cymatics shows that sounds create patterns. One point Bock made in terms of the "Information system"seems that the language was able to accurately convey information because of sound? Listening to the language transmitted something like whole blocks of information.

I was always fascinated by the "Tower of Babel" story and the disturbance of a Universal language that led to separate languages. The word Babble sounds to me what it says...incoherent, chaotic, not meaningful. If one does not understand the language, it sounds like Babble.

I found a video that was fun

OeC1yAaWG34

Were sounds "heard" by one the way the visions were seen by others?
Did sounds from one cause visions in another?

I am interested in more information as to this kind of "visual thinking" and is this related to what is now called "visions" or creative "visualization?"
Thanks so much.

Maggie

27th November 2015, 17:37

Even in society today various subsets exist within each segment of society. So it stands to reason there would be some deviance or perhaps to them it was normal but you what I mean.

What if you could read my mind and when I looked at you, it was with lust. That is an issue of telempathy. I would need to seriously gaurd my thoughts if some thoughts were forbidden. We could say that people sense what others are thinking but we also have an agreement to ignore what we find and look to actions as the only real.

I think we lost telempathy at some point. This made it possible to separate us out and tell us what the meaning of something might be. I cannot seriously entertain that "lust" is as serious as "murder". It is really mind blowing when one thinks about it society glorifies violence and demonizes sexual expression.

IMO the greatest deviance of all historic perversion is glorification of all the various ways to kill (in the name of...) while making evil the "acts" that arise (even if seemingly peculiar or crude) from attraction and "love". And in history we observe the linking of sex as rape with victory in war.

Was there a manipulated turn towards war that used the means of love bonds to create "Infant eries"? Followers believed in and passionately defending the leadership.

Same sex "heart friend"s was not just a Bock invention.....
I am sure we all know the history of the Trojan's same sex bonds and the Greek idea that true love was between men.
Of course no one ever asks what the misses were doing because it was by then Patriarchy and women became invisible.

This was an interesting find for me.....

Satan in the Groin (http://www.beyond-the-pale.org.uk/satan3.htm)

Elen

27th November 2015, 17:47

What if you could read my mind and when I looked at you, it was with lust. That is an issue of telempathy. I would need to seriously gaurd my thoughts if some thoughts were forbidden. We could say that people sense what others are thinking but we also have an agreement to ignore what we find and look to actions as the only real.

I think we lost telempathy at some point. This made it possible to separate us out and tell us what the meaning of something might be. I cannot seriously entertain that "lust" is as serious as "murder". It is really mind blowing when one thinks about it society glorifies violence and demonizes sexual expression.

IMO the greatest deviance of all historic perversion is glorification of all the various ways to kill (in the name of...) while making evil the "acts" that arise (even if seemingly peculiar or crude) from attraction and "love". And in history we observe the linking of sex as rape with victory in war.

Was there a manipulated turn towards war that used the means of love bonds to create "Infant eries"? Followers believed in and passionately defending the leadership.

Same sex "heart friend"s was not just a Bock invention.....
I am sure we all know the history of the Trojan's same sex bonds and the Greek idea that true love was between men.
Of course no one ever asks what the misses were doing because it was by then Patriarchy and women became invisible.

This was an interesting find for me.....

Satan in the Groin (http://www.beyond-the-pale.org.uk/satan3.htm)

I found this online. It’s from a forum called Atlantis rising, no longer existing, but with the “Internet Archive Wayback Machine” some has been kept safe. I’ll post some of it from time to time, written by someone calling him/herself “Boreas” who is a very knowledgeable person. Page 3

The populisation of Northern Eurasia is obviously ARCTIC. But, - the time and place of the origin - of the first arctic population is still far from sufficiently explained. By proof.
But, - we do already know that there have actually been existing an Artic Population
already 280.000 years ago. In Finland. We also know that "modern man" visited the White Sea and The Kara Ocean, - already 40.000 years ago.
We also know that this population disappeared - due to the "deluge" appearing when the glacier covering 95 % of Fenno-Scandia started moving, aprox. 10.700 years ago. As this glacier broke up, the part covering Finland started moving south. As the glacier slid towards the ocean the ancient population of the Finnish archipelago would either escape - or being pushed into the ocean.
Seemingly some of them did escape and survive, - since we still see a relative large group of arctic populations still today. And we can even follow a line of development of this culture, from the time when the first groups of ALL the arctic populations (Europeans, Russians) arrived about 10.000 years ago. And we can still see that this population still express a large number of ethnical, lingual and cultural expressions - closely related to the Arctical Nature.
This simple time-line is based on the growingly famous discoveries made over the last decade by Scandinavian and Russian scientists. (www.nba.fi, etc.)
So far the oldest of ALL known arctical populations is found in the Finnish Archipelago. Consequently we have to direct our attention to this specific area to establish a historical background for the fully and completely "acclimatized" kind of human that populated the Finnish archipelago already DURING ice-time.
9-10.000 years ago this people started populating the vast and empty area of the arctical climate-zone. Given the speed they have expanded by it must be this ONE, pre-boreal population that have developed the skills and abilities to sustain the artic winter, under scarce circumstances. Thus we may explain the origin and the fast expension of the article population, that already 8000 years ago covered the entire Eurasian continent, from Biscayan to The Chinese Wall. 6-7.000 years ago they sailed across the Atlantic Ocean, populating the Orkneys, The Faeroe Islands, etc. As to when they reached the American continent is still not clarified, - but the mentioned Clovis culture may still be an early appearance of arctical, populating coastal areas of the Arctical America, as we have seen from the excavations on New Found land.
A funny piece in the puzzle is actually a picture of a highly organized society and a governmental order depicted in the cultural antiquities today found from the Eurasian Mesolithic (early stone-age). Already 8.000 years ago we find an organised culture covering the east of Eurasia, while Western Europe had a similar but still distinctly separate expressions. Cross-referencing a gross amount of archaeological items one seems not to agree that we have had eastern AND western characteristics separate already 8.000 years ago...!
Still today we can divide the linguistically and ethnical border of Eurasia by the same old line, starting at the top of the border between Finland and Sweden - following the old border-river straight south, crossing Aland before following the old border-river Weichsel/Wizla in today’s Poland, before reaching Balkan, Moldavia and the shores of the Black Sea.
Just recently we had another astonishing discovery revealed in this matter;
---
"Prehistoric skeleton unearthed in Bulgaria"
The skeleton of a prehistoric woman believed to
represent the first agricultural civilization
existing on Bulgarian land was unearthed near the
village of Ohoden, Vratsa district, northwest
Bulgaria. Archaeologists found the skeleton on the
riverbank of the local Skut River. The finding
was approximately dated back 9,000 years, which
makes the 'Bulgarian farmer' five centuries older
than the already known humans to have lived on
the Balkan Peninsula.
The skeleton was revealed during excavation
works in a pre-historic village unearthed from a
depth of 2 m. "This woman skeleton is five
centuries older than those which were found in
the Balkans and belong to the first generation of
farmers that inhabited this region," said
archaeologist Georgy Ganetsovski, who made the
discovery.
The village seemed to be very well
preserved after being devastated by a big fire.
Archaeologists said that the people living on
these lands in prehistoric times were the first
to invent ceramics and to build thermally
isolated solid houses. They were convinced that
the Ohoden finding would redraft the history of
human civilization.
Sources: Novinite, (31 October 2004), The Hindu (7 November 2004) http://www.novinite.com
……………………

The works of Jonathan Adams is of the few reliable updates on the ice age, that being in America or Eurasia.
http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nerc.html#maps http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercNORTHAMERICA.html
As we see the same main stages of development are parallel in time, using geological time frames. Understanding that "ice-time" began - endured, and ended, - at the same periods all over the Northern Hemisphere.
The last stages - before our time - have been so well understood, today - that modern geologists like Adams have the with to collect and verify the mass of information necessary to create A all-over-view that may result in a world-map, describing the globe, 10.000+ years ago.
Over the last years we have seen more and more maps constructed, - locally, regionally and continentally. Based on the remarkable work by Danish climatologists we can now get "technically confirmed" information about the climate over the Greenland Ice-Sheet over the last 170.000 years. That confirming archaeological/biochemical estimates from different sites over large areas have helped a lot to get clear on the periods of the climate at the time, such as "melting periods" and "interglacial".
Together with an extensive body of geological information it is possible to draw maps of the last 120.000 years. Somehow.
But there is still MUCH ground to cover before we have a clear, scientifically confirmed picture of the entire ice-time.
Some one year ago I asked Jonathan Adams
if there is chance of getting a map describing the glaciers definite MAXIMUM size, understanding that is a key to get closer to a definite age/duration of the anomaly that occurred as the globe started to freeze - from both south and north, simultaneously...
The answer was most clearly; "Not possible". Which corresponds to the feedback I got from other geologists/climatologists at the time, normally addressing the problems of gaining certainty about anything older than 120.000 years - occurring ON the surface of the crust...
Luckily, Mr. Adams is a young and vigorous scientist. When I see the work he already has added to his merits over the last year I guess he will be among the first to pull that investigation together...!
Meanwhile we may keep focus on what happened over the last 120.000 years, - since both "Modern Civilization" as well as "Atlantis" is much younger than that.
It also means that the population existing within the Baltic Ocean 120.000 years ago - already - have had to be very, very article.
This means that nature have been able to develop ONE tribe of the original man, outside the tropical world, - to survive and endure in an "high-artic climate", where the ground is covered with ice and snow half of the year...
Adapting to such a complete "climate-shock" is incredibly demanding. The chance that such an isolated culture is minimal. And it’s less than nothing if these people were unable to undergo many serious adoptions, - such as food, warmth, health, habits, work, etc. - in order to simply survive. To pick up more sun, during the short summer, - the skin got lighter, even turning completely white. Pale white. Only a few birthmarks with pigments - keeping the colour of their original, tropical skin colour. That also why the arctics developed green/blue ices. They’re still low on sunshine & pigment.
Today we have arctic people still existing. We call them Caucasians.
If they did NOT exist 120.000 years ago, - then WHICH kind of people did then exist inside the Baltic’s 120.000 years ago? Another artic population?
I have still to hear an ethnologist defending the theory that we have had TWO different types of arctic man. If so; How many Etruscans/Chinese/Mayans/Aboriginals/Neanderthals? Do any biologist find it likely that TWO - different - hybrids should occur twice, - from one and the same parental origin?
……………….

Maggie

27th November 2015, 18:06

I found this online. It’s from a forum called Atlantis rising, no longer existing, but with the “Internet Archive Wayback Machine” some has been kept safe. I’ll post some of it from time to time, written by someone calling him/herself “Boreas” who is a very knowledgeable person. Page 3

Elen, It is really weird about google. I think it never gives me the same things and I was googling Bock Saga and Atlantis and this came up recently. I call this a definite synch.

Herein lie the "Lost" Boreas Files by Rockessence (http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php/topic,8774.0/wap2.html)

Elen

27th November 2015, 18:16

There you go, Maggie. It's all there....
Elen

Novusod

27th November 2015, 18:38

YES! Novusod thanks.

"The root language is a very visual language. They just didn't just say things. They saw things and used their 3rd eye to come up with abstractions."

Could you please expand on this statement?

Cymatics shows that sounds create patterns. One point Bock made in terms of the "Information system"seems that the language was able to accurately convey information because of sound? Listening to the language transmitted something like whole blocks of information.

I was always fascinated by the "Tower of Babel" story and the disturbance of a Universal language that led to separate languages. The word Babble sounds to me what it says...incoherent, chaotic, not meaningful. If one does not understand the language, it sounds like Babble.

I found a video that was fun

Were sounds "heard" by one the way the visions were seen by others?
Did sounds from one cause visions in another?

I am interested in more information as to this kind of "visual thinking" and is this related to what is now called "visions" or creative "visualization?"
Thanks so much.

Another way of explaining the concept is through the concept "Metaphysical Linguistics" and metaphysical letters of the root language.
Meta - Make (Mother)
Physical
language

Just examining the sounds used in a particular word can tell you the meaning of the word. I can even completely make up new words and you will understand the meaning of them just by focusing on the sounds. J.R.R Tolkien did this all the time when he came up with names for middle Earth in Simarillion and Lord of the Rings.

For example: What is a "Balrog?" Just examining the sounds in the word can give you an idea of what this thing is.
This is the metaphysical breakdown of the word Balrog.
B - Breaker
A - Awestruck
L - Long
R - Rasped
O - Omen
G - Head or Mouth

Balrog - it is big, has a raspy mouth, it is awe inspiring, it breaks things

What is the "Grendel" from the Saga of Beowulf? Do you know what Grendel looks like just be hearing the word Grendel.
G - Mouth or Head
R (END) - rend (to tear apart) rasp see run down
L - Long

The Grendel is obviously large biting and tearing creature. Think goblin but bigger with more Growling, Grinding.

The cymatic principle of the root language has to do where one places tonal emphasis in the word. What syllable or sound is enunciated changes the meaning of the word somewhat. In the pronunciation of the word Balrog there is tonal emphasis on the "R" sound. In root language when you up the "R" sound you get "Raven" which is a bad tempered bird. Max out the R and it can even be interpreted at a "W" as in Wreck. The Grendel also has heavy "R" enunciation which will emphasize its "Ravenous" tendencies.

These explanations should give you an idea of what I mean by "visual language." When you you hear a word even a word you never encountered before there is a metaphysical connection behind what the word means. The 3rd eye is used to construct the visualization.

For the complete analysis of the root language please read my thread on: Esoteric Numerology and the Root Language (http://jandeane81.com/threads/8229-Root-language-and-esoteric-numerology). It is a work in progress but I will add more to it as time goes on.

Maggie

27th November 2015, 19:08

There you go, Maggie. It's all there....
Elen

"It's" all somewhere hehe.

Perusing the Boreas thread led me to this book.

The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales: The Iliad, the Odyssey, and the Migration of Myth December 20, 2005
by Felice Vinci. (http://www.amazon.com/Baltic-Origins-Homers-Epic-Tales/dp/1594770522)

It is a curious fact that the geographical descriptions furnished in Homer's Iliad (the story of the siege of Troy) and Odyssey (the story of Odysseus's journey home after Troy's fall) do not easily match the assumed Mediterranean topography. Various prehistorians, historians, archeologists, and linguists have expressed their consternation about Homer's geographical details. It was Plutarch (46-120 A.D.), who in his essay "The face that appears in the lunar orb," unequivocally states that Goddess Calypso's island of Ogygia mentioned in the Odyssey was situated "five days' sail from Britain, toward the west."

Vinci, a nuclear engineer by profession and a passionate classicist by vocation, took Plutarch's statement as a serious clue to search for the geography of the Homeric epics in the North Atlantic rather than the Mediterranean. He has amassed a mountain of evidence in favor of the Baltic origins of both Greek epics. Similarities between the mythologies of the North and the Mediterranean have often been pointed out. Vinci argues that a deterioration in climate around 2000 B.C. caused some of the Scandinavian peoples to migrate south. As time went by, the epics were claimed by the Greeks for their own Mediterranean culture and environment.

What about Schliemann's Troy? Although this intrepid explorer undoubtedly discovered the Mycenean civilization, his claim to have unearthed the city of Troy has never been universally accepted. Already Strabo ( ) denied that the "ancient Ilium ( Troy)" was to be found in Anatolia. A better candidate for the Homeric Troy than the Anatolian town of Hisarlik, excavated by Schliemann, is possibly the Finnish town of Toija, as suggested by Vinci.

Vinci's audacious rewriting of Homeric culture and mythology is a creative proposition, which deserves to be further investigated.

And in turn by googling I found an interesting slide show. Click on the image for the show

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/1-aa-toija-2007-english2316/95/1-aa-toija-2007-english-1-1024.jpg?cb=1186478932 (http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/akela64/1-aa-toija-2007-english/1)

Jengelen

27th November 2015, 19:08

At some point in time in the past roaming bands of Neanderthals of the northern territories were out hunting and came across others. It is said by many researchers that these groups were thought to be composed largely of mostly homosexual men. Its not that they didn't find woman entertaining, they did. They were thought to be very rough brutes and probably were overly abusive but its conjecture of course.

However they suppose that at some point these not so mobile short legged Neanderthals, limited mostly to middle Europe and parts of the north and south, came to meet up with highly mobile homosapiens. These of course were enslaved and enjoyed as toys, sex slaves and food if we are to believe the tales. Its thought the lack of mobility and loss of hunting territory as well as their methods of sexual reproduction being way behind for actually expecting to survive as it turned out for Neanderthal the hybrids ended up being hardier and more mobile than the parents. However, these hybrids kept a lot of the homsexual deviance which I might add is very well seen these days in the behaviors of these clans.

Then we have the Denisovan clan a distinctly different group than the others that is also thought to have made their way to as far north as Europe and on the way of course they mated with some Homosapiens as well. These offspring of course were also highly mobile, intelligent and so now you have all these hybrids running around competing with each other and the melting pot getting more and more diluted down.

Imagine the turf war. Denisovan peoples that are pure blood meets Neanderthals in smaller numbers but pure and both along the way managed to reproduce hybrids. Then Denisovan hybrids of them and homosapiens and Neanderthal homosapien hybrids and then the homo sapiens themselves. Why its a true melding of various species of bipeds here!

The other hominids not in the mix that are competing like perhaps Homo Habillus or others are out there in all possibility and then of course we have the hybrids mating with other hybrids unaccounted for. Eventually it all dilutes and it appears the two ruling classes met there at Gobekli Tepe to me. This was not a living area but some sort of gathering site for something.

I think it was the coming together of these otherwise warring clans in a time of need when making babies because of high mortality rates was needed. That is why they groin and sex cults that mated and that mating like Lance a lot tales produced all royals of what? Hybrids of course after that the dark skinned locals like in the bible noted orange hair and 'glowing' babies and we know now it was just the work of another Lance a lot happy penis! . To make babies correctly you need a map so, it makes sense to mark the geographic center of the new territory after the cataclysm and that is what they apparently did, they put the Pyramid right smack in the midgarde! The new midgarde was Egypt. I don't think the sphinx was ever a cat. I have seen the Egyptian eye in art and they don't miss much. The cats all have sway or curved backs like cats do.

They knew this and portrayed it in others and the thing I think the Sphinx is is Anubis the dog guarding the new metropolis and the tell is the flat back like all dog figures had. As I say they didn't miss much and they certainly did use the crap out of polymer to build after the cataclysm where before that they used solid stone apparently. So it does seem that some other stronger being or perhaps bigger even, once lived and made the larger featured monuments of old. I mean that makes sense to me also because other animals were also bigger before the cataclysm.

Elen

28th November 2015, 13:22

I noticed that the 2nd video didn’t work anymore so I checked it out. It turns out that Morten Alexander Joramo, who made the video has taken it down and made another much longer documentary on the subject.

He is convinced that finding the routes of both Odysseus and Jason (with his Argonauts) in the North of Europe, as well as the Four Rivers in the Garden of Eden is confirming Ior Bock's Saga, where the story of Noah is (now most logically) placed in the Baltic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCuC6ZsI70s

Maggie

8th July 2016, 16:12

When I first learned about the concept of "catholic", it was because my family had "catholic taste" in a deep South USA community where many were attached to more fundamentalist strains of culture. It was an anti-intellectual just read the bible and listen to the authorities and preacher mentality. I think the ability to reach out into breadth saves people's minds from fanaticism. Fanatic can alienate people and prevent synthesis.

When capitalized, Catholic refers to the Catholic Church. With a lower-case "c," catholic means "universal" and "inclusive." If you listen to anything from hip-hop to Baroque, you have catholic taste in music.
When it entered the English language in the sixteenth century, catholic simply meant "general" or "common." Applied to the Western Church, it essentially meant "the Church universal," or the whole body of Christian believers, as opposed to separate congregations. After the Reformation, the Western Church called itself the Catholic Church to distinguish itself from communities of faith that were no longer obedient to Rome. This usage remains the most common, although you can still use catholic to mean general.https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/catholic

Apparently Tolkien was both Catholic and catholic?

In a 1953 letter to Father Robert Murray, a Catholic theologian, J.R.R. Tolkien wrote:
The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world.

Although Tolkien had a deep personal commitment to Catholicism, he also had an abiding love for what he called “that noble northern spirit” – the historical, literary and philosophical heritage of pre-Christian northern Europe. He lamented that the coming of Christianity had obliterated any detailed record of the ancient mythology of his own country, as opposed to Iceland’s preservation of its literary heritage in the Eddas. His decades-long creation of the Middle-earth corpus was, in part, an effort to create a “mythology for England.” This mythology is not a Christian one; Tolkien referred to Gandalf as an “Odinic wanderer,” not a Christ figure (despite what today’s movie reviewers may tell you).

In 1926, Tolkien founded the Kolbítar [“coalbiter”] Society, named for an Old Norse term referring to those who would tell tales while sitting close enough to the fire to bite the coals. The members of the club (including C.S. Lewis) would meet regularly to translate the Icelandic Eddas and sagas while drinking beer. Given that these texts are foundational sources of information for Norse mythology and religion – and that beer plays a major role in both the myth and ritual of the ancient North – I wouldn’t call this club “fundamentally Catholic” in outlook, unless we use the lower-case catholic to mean “broad in sympathies, tastes or interests.”http://www.norsemyth.org/2013/02/tolkiens-heathen-feminist-part-one.html

Latest I have seen for the Bocks

This was posted before

/aCuC6ZsI70s

INTERESTING exchange recently between Jim Chesnar and Morten Joramo as to how the Bock Saga and other information is either connected or kept separate?

Morten Alexander Joramo2 months ago
Hello Jim (Chesnar), long time, I recently got these comments from you and haven’t been able to answer earlier. Your comments were spread all over the place under tallakfilm, so I collected them and put them here, in order to reply to them afterwards. Hope everything is fine with you too.
You wrote:

Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
+Morten Alexander Joramo ...hey! Mortem...nice story...but is any of this coming from Ior ?in all the years I spent with him I never heard any of this....hope your life is with many good feelings....your friend...Jim chesnar

Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
+Morten Alexander Joramo... very beautiful presentation...jim

Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
+Morten Alexander Joramo ...beautiful production...hope the life is being good for you...good feelings...Jim Chesnar

Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
+Morten Alexander Joramo ..just like to ask is this your kela about troy and the northern odysey? I never heard any of this from Ior...sounds like you could be mixing saga with your own theory...??…

Well, Jim, the Lost Civilization of the North is not Bock Saga at all, it is just a story which happens to prove that there was a Norse Culture alive and well back in the Bronze Age, a culture with huge influence on the world around it. All confirming – as in proving – that there was a now forgotten Norse Culture which spread its influence all over the planet, just like Ior said.
I don’t know if you ever heard any discussions among Ior’s friends about the theories of Felice Vinci, who introduced the idea of Odysseus in the High North. That was anyway where I first heard about it. And I discussed it a lot with Ior, who, like I, found it very interesting.
Then it turned out that I started discovering errors in Vinci’s reasoning, and started looking at the thing and making discoveries of my own. So first I wrote about it in the Homer Code, (as an introduction to the Bock Saga) but then I discovered that not only Odysseus, but also Jason and the Argonauts were sailing in the High North, which I wrote about in Atlantis Unveiled. But then I suddenly discovered many new things around Denmark, and so I collected all that Greek Mythology in the High North material into the new book The Lost Civilization of the North, from which this film is made.
When I had done all this, it occurred to me that this was actually logical, honest and truly inescapable evidence and proof that what Ior was telling about an ancient Norse culture in Asgard was in fact true. And I thought that could be interesting for many people to see for themselves.
I noticed with myself, that it did something to me that I now had proof about the actual existence of the world Ior talked about. Even though I was of the opinion that it had to be genuine, also before.
I don’t know if you ever discuss these kinds of things with any viking-museum people or ditto archaeologists, but if you have you may have noticed, like I have, that they can get very defensive and will resort to any means at their disposal, legal or otherwise, to prevent you from venting any such ideas through their channels.
Well, this is proof that the official archaeological “viking” story, as pushed by museums paid by the taxpayers, is actually dead wrong.
So Jim, you probably don’t have so many viking museums out there on Hawaii, but this might perhaps still be of interest, even though it is not just the words of Ior Bock. You must remember that here in the Nordic countries the remains of our ancient Norse culture is a lot less than what is left after the Native Americans. Here it is not even officially recognized that any such ancient and highly evolved Norse culture ever existed.

Bom and good feeling.

Morten

Published on Jun 22, 2016
The Mysteries of Balder's Temple

When I had solved the Homer Code in the sense of deciphering the complete routes of Odysseus, and Jason & the Argonauts, in the North, I had effectively also proven the prior existence of a Lost Civilization, of the North. A civilization which turned out to be none other than the one Ior Bock was talking about.

As I came to understand in my heart of hearts that the world Ior Bock told of had been real, that made me also take another look at the events around 1998, when I was involved with an attempt to open Balder's Temple in Gumbostrand, Finland.

THE MYSTERIES OF BALDERS TEMPLE by MAJoramo

/W09qHATzRtk

More interaction and maybe more indication that opinions get in the way?

Patricio Samuel
1 week ago
Lux. Great presentation, Morten. So according to Ior, only a rock from the Moon could be added to the Temple since it was the only thing missing. Can you tell more about that?

Reply
Morten Alexander Joramo
1 week ago
Ior asked me several times how come I was so different from all the others.
That I could not answer him.
One time he asked me what I was most curious about, the cave or its contents.
I answered the cave.
I noticed that puzzled him, and while he pondered my answer, I happened to be struggling a little with a video camera or recording machine., something I saw he noticed as it made him smile to himself. And so he said that I should remember that the contents of the cave also included all of Paradise Time's technical inventions..

Reply2
Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
1 week ago
Patricio....my uncle from Texas knew some astronauts from Nasa in Houston. ..One of them gave him 1 kuu kivi or moon rock..I gave it Ior. ...It was in his attic in the town apartment but on his death I have no idea what happen to it...That is the Moon rock story....good feelings...jim

Reply1
Morten Alexander Joramo
1 week ago
So perhaps the Bock Saga never even mentioned any Moon Rock in the first place, then?

Reply
Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
1 week ago
+Morten Alexander Joramo.. if you are comparing a moon rock and your Greek story in the north...I do not see any comparison. .Ior said he wanted to put my uncle Gene's moon rock into the temple..That came from his own mouth...If we find where the stone is one day...it could maybe be put in the temple as our friend wished..You can ask Michel or Kevin if the moon rock really came from me...Michel said he never heard Ior say anything Greek mythology being in the north.

Reply
Thelma Lynne (Jim Chesnar)
1 week ago
You say he pondered your answer...you didn't have a answer..not much to ponder there..I think Ior didn't needed to ask us about much of anything...It was more to listen to what he said...Really

Reply
Morten Alexander Joramo
1 week ago
The point is not whether Ior wanted to put your uncle Gene's moon rock into the temple, or if the moon rock really came from you, the point is that no Moon Rock was ever mentioned in the Bock Saga in the first place, and this story of yours is of no general interest whatsoever. Just like this discussion. Over and out.

modwiz

8th July 2016, 16:56

The above videos look good. Downloading them for watching later.

Maggie

14th January 2017, 21:06

#206 - Grimerica Talks the Bock Saga with Jim Chesnar

Published on Jan 13, 2017

Interview starts 27;50 Jim Chesnar, Probably the worlds foremost expert on the The Bock Saga joins us to chat about the oldest genesis mythology handed down for thousands of years, maybe even millions… Jim sat with Ior Bock and the generational story has been passed down. There are many documentaries coming out about this and Jim has been a large part of this reveal. We chat about the correlations between this myth and actual geological events, and about the inner earth/hole in the pole underneath a museum the Russians built. Jim chats about the root language, Atlantis being a time and a place, and how the solar system might have been.

GQ1mF7v5Gnw

Elen

15th January 2017, 07:50

Thanks Maggie, I can verify the meaning of the words in the Root Language. "Hel" means "Whole", "Hell" means "Good luck". It's amazing how the words have been deliberately changed into something negative. Although, I think Jim C has a very personal opinion about keeping the races pure...well, it's too late for that, hey?

Jengelen

15th January 2017, 10:02

Maggie

15th January 2017, 15:06

I agree its a bit late on the purity issue. I think where the Bock Saga lost me is the races all coming from one family of the same race. So the Bock family or Asur family were one race but each child produced a different race of people on the earth? Doesn't make sense here. It also means that anyone that is Brit/Irish, Brit/Dane or one of several other mixes even though they are all white are actually biracial according to Jim which again makes no sense to me. If Sven and Dan were the same family, brothers, with the same mother and the same father how are they two different races?

I have read many different suggestions that physiological changes (like skin melanin) arise in human groups as a result of physical environment. One Human race with various epigenetic expressed appearances that arise in interaction with the environment seems to be what makes sense.

The original Bock Saga story is a little confusing but does seem to aim for a way to keep reproduction healthy in a situation where there were few people. The castes systems (asin India) that developed and beliefs about racial "purity"(the Aryan superiority) are IMO not scientific and are political/religious controls. The concepts seem IMO to have gone haywire from the original intention? That is if this story is truth and not just a tale?

Adding these

crNdeiBMkYw

Yw0Etkti4yo

Elen

8th June 2017, 08:49

I think I missed this show when it came out... better late than never, hey? I like The Higherside Chat, and it's always good to see a thing from many angles.

Published on 23 Jul 2016

Join The Higherside Chats as The Carlwood welcomes, Jim Chesnar, to discuss the Bock Saga, its deep relations to hell and the origins of the Earth.

Enjoy the authentic ambiance as Jim, his rooster, and Greg dive into the deep end of the weird pool and do their best to wade through the dense body of esoteric knowledge passed down through the lineage of the family of Bock. Brace yourself.

1:10 Passed down meticulously by methodical oral tradition, through one prominent family, the Bock Saga, contains an elaborate mythology that describes how our reality was formed, where we came from, as well as a history radically different than what we hear in the mainstream. It also contains a detailed description of the origins of the Finnish, Swedish and English languages along with etymology describing the development of letters, sounds, words, and language that is far different than our understanding.

4:03 As the nefarious puppet masters of the power pyramid work hard to erase the pieces of human history passed down through various secret societies, esoteric orders and the oral traditions of enlightened people, here at THC we understand they’ve rewritten history to suit their needs and stripped out any useful knowledge. It is thanks to those like, Jim Chesnar, an Elder Leader of The Order of the Gnostics, who have taken up the task of sharing this sacred occult knowledge, we are able to peer behind the curtain. A friend of Ior Bock, the last remaining member of the Bock lineage, Jim has studied the saga inside and out since 1984.

5:50 Listen as they painstakingly discuss the dense origins of the Bock Saga. Every good journey must have a beginning, and the Bock Saga is no different. The saga begins with the assertion that the Bock lineage is the oldest family on earth, and their oral history is one that starts from the beginning of humanity and creation, rather than backtracking from our current time. This mythology is a history, based on one root alphabet that is 29 sounds with each sound having both a mark and meaning. The saga tells a story based on the Sun, Moon and planets told by a sound people using a true logic that we now call astrology. Listen as Jim details the history and layout of our universe through etymology and connects the saga, it’s root alphabet, and it’s meanings that are now hidden in the plain sight of our everyday language.

Want more Jim Chesnar? Check out his work here or watch his series Bock Saga 8 Powers pt.1, Bock Saga 8 Powers pt. 2, or Bock Saga 8 Powers pt.3 on Youtube where you can also catch his movie Welcome to Hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLH_kAPE94g&t=16s

Aianawa

8th June 2017, 09:01

Maybe a noosphere type of thing happening, as today was trying to work out a way of starting a thread, Bock saga memories, around self blow jobs as such, that they talk about, because I was musing as such about a couple of dreams around this that I had when younger and two differing men sharing with me the same dream, ten years apart, but how the heck do you start a thread about self blow jobs being a past memory life time wise ?.

Elen

8th June 2017, 09:58

Aianawa

8th June 2017, 10:04

Lol well past orkward

Aianawa

11th June 2017, 08:53

Was sorta hoping a fellow male member would say, wow me too lol oh well

Elen

11th June 2017, 10:10

Was sorta hoping a fellow male member would say, wow me too lol oh well

Oh dear me...sorry I ruined "the party" Vern. ;)

Aianawa

11th June 2017, 10:13

Oh dear oh dear, the mind concerns lol, terrible picture painting dear lady

Aragorn

11th June 2017, 10:46

Was sorta hoping a fellow male member would say, wow me too lol oh well

I raised my eyes unto the sky, and I spoke the words... "Lord, if it be possible, then let this cup pass from me." :p

Elen

11th June 2017, 10:53

I raised my eyes unto the sky, and I spoke the words... "Lord, if it be possible, then let this cup pass from me." :p

:ha:

This is the very part of the Bock Saga that I'm not willing or unable to discuss, Vern!

Dumpster Diver

13th June 2017, 01:07

I agree its a bit late on the purity issue. I think where the Bock Saga lost me is the races all coming from one family of the same race. So the Bock family or Asur family were one race but each child produced a different race of people on the earth? Doesn't make sense here. It also means that anyone that is Brit/Irish, Brit/Dane or one of several other mixes even though they are all white are actually biracial according to Jim which again makes no sense to me. If Sven and Dan were the same family, brothers, with the same mother and the same father how are they two different races?

Stab in the dark here, but with the genetic value of Nordic blue eyes and blond or red hair, "genetic" distinctions can quickly arise.

So, for example if a blue eyed male mates with a blue eyed female and the offspring has non-blue eyes, male knows female has wandered and the child is impure. Getting mixed up in all this is accidental gene mutation, and if non-blue also impure. BTW, main stream science says that blue eyes are a genetic mutation that "happened" about 11,000 years ago.

I think a lot of this points to the Nordic ETs, and the hyper genetic superior race the Nazis go on about.

Jengelen

15th June 2017, 16:39

Stab in the dark here, but with the genetic value of Nordic blue eyes and blond or red hair, "genetic" distinctions can quickly arise.

So, for example if a blue eyed male mates with a blue eyed female and the offspring has non-blue eyes, male knows female has wandered and the child is impure. Getting mixed up in all this is accidental gene mutation, and if non-blue also impure. BTW, main stream science says that blue eyes are a genetic mutation that "happened" about 11,000 years ago.

I think a lot of this points to the Nordic ETs, and the hyper genetic superior race the Nazis go on about.

On some threads in some of the forums on sites like 23 and me that do DNA research there are children that all had their DNA and haplogroups ran and stories of how some didn't know how much their mom 'slept around' until they found out they each had different daddy's and others even worse of those that discovered they were the product of a brother and sister relationship kept secret in their family, and lets see, others of mothers not being their mother but their aunt and that kind of thing. If one were educated in some things about genetics and passed on traits I suppose early warning signs would be there but you know on that subject it always sounded to me like Noah was the product of a nomadic wanderer likely with red or sandy blond hair and blue eyes based on the stories and we know Genghis Khan was a hybrid and that his name means "Gray Eyes".

Apparently Genghis was a hybrid, that is to say mixed breed, chastised on both sides of his family and berated as a lesser man which led him to be forced to his own area with the other "Gray eyes" of which he gathered together and then reproduced throughout his empire. In the genome projects he is the single biggest contributor to our human gene pool with no other coming close. The nearest after is far down in millions of people that descend from him and is the O'Neill family of Ireland and Gaelic fame. Nial of the Nine Hostages apparently fathered a great great many children also but nothing compared to Genghis.

It is interesting that the role racism plays in shaping and directing human diversity. I found this greatly revealing. Will someone embed this if I screw it up please. :-) thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh9cVieelzg&t=234s

Dreamtimer

15th June 2017, 18:47

Dumpster Diver

15th June 2017, 21:37

I didn't know that so much of human genetics was influenced by Genghis. That's really something.

My brother's hazel eyes are almost grey. He likely has a lot of Irish blood. But he was told he was German.

I've read that some 0.5% of the population of the earth has "Gengis genes." He was a busy guy, fighting and f***ing...:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/08/1-in-200-men-direct-descendants-of-genghis-khan/#.WUL7zsbGxGw

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v23/n10/full/ejhg2014285a.html

BTW, in the Law of One books, Ra says that Genghis is now a shipping clerk amongst the 4th level bad-guys he ascended to. Seems he was not evil enough to get a decent seat at the "Evil Emperor" table:

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?c=People&su=Taras+Bulba%2C+Genghis+Khan%2C+Rasputin

Taras Bulba, Genghis Khan, Rasputin
11.8 Questioner: Is there anyone in our history that is commonly known who went to a fourth-density self-service or negative type planet or who will go there?
Ra: I am Ra. The number of entities thus harvested is small. However, a few have penetrated the eighth level which is only available from the opening up of the seventh through the sixth. Penetration into the eighth or intelligent infinity level allows a mind/body/spirit complex to be harvested if it wishes at any time/space during the cycle.

11.9 Questioner: Are any of these people known in the history of our planet by name?
Ra: I am Ra. We will mention a few. The one known as Taras Bulba, the one known as Genghis Khan, the one known as Rasputin.

11.10 Questioner: How did they accomplish this? What was necessary for them to accomplish this?
Ra: All of the aforementioned entities were aware, through memory, of Atlantean understandings having to do with the use of the various centers of mind/body/spirit complex energy influx in attaining the gateway to intelligent infinity.

11.11 Questioner: Did this enable them to do what we refer to as magic? Do paranormal things while they were incarnate here?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. The first two entities mentioned made little use of these abilities consciously. However, they were bent single-mindedly upon service to self, sparing no efforts in personal discipline to double, re-double and so empower this gateway. The third was a conscious adept and also spared no effort in the pursuit of service to self.

11.12 Questioner: Where are these three entities now?
Ra: I am Ra. These entities are in the dimension known to you as fourth. Therefore the space/time continua are not compatible. An approximation of the space/time locus of each would net no actual understanding. Each chose a fourth-density planet which was dedicated to the pursuit of the understanding of the Law of One through service to self, one in what you know as the Orion group, one in what you know as Cassiopeia, one in what you know as Southern Cross; however, these loci are not satisfactory. We do not have vocabulary for the geometric calculations necessary for transfer of this understanding to you.

11.13 Questioner: Who went to the Orion group?
Ra: I am Ra. The one known as Genghis Khan.

11.14 Questioner: What does he presently do there? What is his job or occupation? What does he do?
Ra: I am Ra. This entity serves the Creator in its own way.

11.15 Questioner: Is it impossible for you to tell us precisely how he does this service?
Ra: I am Ra. It is possible for us to speak to this query. However, we use any chance we may have to reiterate the basic understanding/learning that all beings serve the Creator.

The one you speak of as Genghis Khan, at present, is incarnate in a physical light body which has the work of disseminating material of thought control to those who are what you may call crusaders. He is, as you would term this entity, a shipping clerk.

Aianawa

18th May 2018, 07:39

Feel to add this here as 2nd half especially is pertinent imo >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqi2CKmffZo

enjoy being

18th May 2018, 08:09

Haha, while I was away trying to find the root language thread you posted in this sister thread.

Aianawa

18th May 2018, 08:21

Noosphere

ps what are the chances of both of us at the same, going to related 2015 threads and also posting

enjoy being

18th May 2018, 08:33

Twas the letter Q that sent me off looking. :thumbsup:

Aianawa

23rd May 2018, 11:05

Those interested > http://www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/ior-bock-saga-everything-we-know-about-history-wrong-008599

Not much info of late, wonder if more underground, out of limelight as such nowadays ?

Dreamtimer

4th January 2019, 13:18

Jim Chesnar with Greg Carlwood:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFME_Q8wvoI

Elen

5th June 2019, 11:00

More information on the Bock Saga. Finland.

Friends remembering Ior Bock.

Ior Bock - great story-teller. Who was he actually? The documentary is an attempt to look into the life of the amazing man and an attempt to understand him better. Told through some of the many friends of Ior Bock, even those who were with him in the last few moments of his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4D_3J2SVFs

Aianawa

5th June 2019, 21:06

Got two bags of popcorn ready, ta.

Aianawa

7th July 2019, 01:05

Gosh, finally get to watch, popcorn needs renewing though lol

Mmmmm was there a hollow Earth theory within the Saga ?

Elen

7th July 2019, 07:24

Gosh, finally get to watch, popcorn needs renewing though lol

Mmmmm was there a hollow Earth theory within the Saga ?

No, not that I know of...:grin:

Dreamtimer

1st January 2020, 04:44

Croww777 has come a long way from videos of craft flying over the moon's surface and the lunar wave...

Jim Chesnar has come onto his show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0G1eppGQa8

Elen

1st January 2020, 07:14

Yeah thanks Dreamtimer. I understand the Root Language and I understand English. It is making a lot of sense to me. :love:

Emil El Zapato

1st January 2020, 15:30

Croww777 has come a long way from videos of craft flying over the moon's surface and the lunar wave...

:)

Emil El Zapato

1st January 2020, 23:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34F6XpYxTfQ

Elen

2nd January 2020, 08:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34F6XpYxTfQ

this must be a new chapter of the Bock Saga that I've never heard of...:h5:

Emil El Zapato

2nd January 2020, 11:42

no, i wasn't sure where to put it...please move it if it bothers you...place it wherever it seems appropriate...thnx

Emil El Zapato

2nd January 2020, 13:21

I read this thread...It was interesting because I always loved Eric the Red and Thor. A couple of my favorite characters as a kid. But I'm only 1% Scandinavian, so it is difficult to be really engaged.

Synchronicity of the day: J.R.R.Tolkien and George R.R. Martin

Elen

3rd January 2020, 06:34

no, i wasn't sure where to put it...please move it if it bothers you...place it wherever it seems appropriate...thnx

No no NAP it doesn't bother me at all, :p.

Aianawa

3rd January 2020, 07:33

Croww777 has come a long way from videos of craft flying over the moon's surface and the lunar wave...

Jim Chesnar has come onto his show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0G1eppGQa8

Have renewed popcorn supply, comfy seat, ta

Aianawa

18th October 2020, 00:35

An hour old >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92yeZJBVD-U

Aianawa

24th October 2020, 21:39

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4D_3J2SVFs&feature=emb_logo

Wind

24th October 2020, 21:47

He sure was crazy. Interesting fellow Finn, but crazy for sure. He had a sad ending too.

Elen

26th October 2020, 07:58

He sure was crazy. Interesting fellow Finn, but crazy for sure. He had a sad ending too.

Unique is my choice of words...very! :grin:

Aianawa

26th October 2020, 08:20

Very crazy is perfect, likely sane in the future.

Dreamtimer

27th October 2020, 10:24

That time has been going on already. Insane is seen as sane right now.

Aianawa

2nd November 2020, 06:55

When was first listening to Bock Saga, had to hold two past narratives at same time, in these days this is happening for many, good for ya

Aianawa

9th November 2020, 03:46

Aragorn

9th November 2020, 11:42

Speakin here for some people i have put this thread to, to read and digest, been told it is a certain ancient in most of their eyes, dot connector, the ship steering wheel language especially as ucc or law of the sea-see, maritime law, may have had a steering wheel ( but common law good as such ) beginning.

The device for controlling the direction a ship or boat sails in is called the helm, Vern, and it operates on the rudder. It was also traditionally placed on the right-hand side of the vessel, which is why that side is still referred to as starboard. The left-hand side of the ship is referred to as port, because that was the side of the ship that was usually moored for (dis)embarking and (un)loading. In the same maritime vernacular ─ in indigo, because you like that color; yes, I think of everything :p ─ the front of the vessel is referred to as the bow, and the rear of the vessel is called the stern, Vern. :ttr:

You're welcome. :p

Dreamtimer

10th November 2020, 12:06

I bow to your vernacular, Aragorn. :tiphat:

Aianawa

22nd May 2022, 07:44

Aianawa

5th April 2023, 22:16

Some here may comprehend the coneXtion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxl-XOsQIKI&t=17s

Aianawa

6th April 2023, 23:49

Diabolical Boids

7th April 2023, 00:09

Well common law is now being superseeded by New resident settlor law, very new as in couple of moons old and still being worked with, because once acknowledged that kings and queens actualllly gave common law to the common people, further research produced to me that the wheel is a recent invention for some peoples and first use very vauge.

Second post from long ago DT, that i missed. Bow with a hug back to you.

Where at?

Is Settlor Law part of or related to the Universal Commerical Code that is sometimes referred to in the states as Maritime Law? The UK and the US have virtually identical commercial laws, although the titles may be different. Jordon Maxwell, rightly or wrongly, went over the subject of Maritime law as it applies to Maritime Salvage Law or commerce upon the sea. The masts and the stern or bow--the structure-- of the ship had little to do with it, the commercial aspect of a ship engaged in commerce or salvage upon the sea did.

Common law is generally regarded in the US if no longer thought of anymore as something that came from nature and natural inherent rights (opposed to divine rights) and was codified into law and core principles of the law (the bill of rights). An emerging body politic (some dudes) jotted down stuff about rights however that didn't mean the law came from man, or a government, it was merely described or recorded by them.

In England at the time of the Magna Carta the emerging common law precepts was handed over to the king by his nobleman and then embodied in the Carta. Carta I believe means Charter? If Latinized? The Constitution in the same was handed from the people to the Government. Our Constitution isn't a social contract as some like to think, is a charter. The 1st amendment gives us the right to contract. That is where natural rights concerning contracts end. Once the decision to contract is made, the jurisdiction passes from common law into commercial law or private contract: the rights are agreed upon by the parties to the contract and they may very well be in contradiction to natural and inherent rights. Rights are not negotiable, or shouldn't be, but contracts are.
The parties involved in the contract would be actual steering wheel.

That we contract unwittingly is a different matter.

Aianawa

7th April 2023, 03:16

Horses mouth best, Craig n friend found it, working n being with it etc still

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100078980598670

Aianawa

7th April 2023, 03:23

Yes common law was given to the commoners, n pyre-sea piracy law of see stuff part of resets etc n power struggles imo

Am sure youve seen the traDE Paths sea wise > https://prussiagate.substack.com/p/havens-horse-heads-and-hermann-part-11d?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=538054&post_id=103581466&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

Aianawa

7th April 2023, 09:13

Let him know you may connect, ask direct ?'s is best imo.

Aianawa

7th April 2023, 09:27

Oh will add Dia B, he died a FEW MOONS AGO, DEAD , 16 MINUTES I THINK, doin good now.

Emil El Zapato

7th April 2023, 09:31

Some here may comprehend the coneXtion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxl-XOsQIKI&t=17s

He's lost his mind, Aianawa...All he needs is a sign stating, "The End is not nigh!"

Emil El Zapato

7th April 2023, 09:44

Where at?

Is Settlor Law part of or related to the Universal Commerical Code that is sometimes referred to in the states as Maritime Law? The UK and the US have virtually identical commercial laws, although the titles may be different. Jordon Maxwell, rightly or wrongly, went over the subject of Maritime law as it applies to Maritime Salvage Law or commerce upon the sea. The masts and the stern or bow--the structure-- of the ship had little to do with it, the commercial aspect of a ship engaged in commerce or salvage upon the sea did.

Common law is generally regarded in the US if no longer thought of anymore as something that came from nature and natural inherent rights (opposed to divine rights) and was codified into law and core principles of the law (the bill of rights). An emerging body politic (some dudes) jotted down stuff about rights however that didn't mean the law came from man, or a government, it was merely described or recorded by them.

In England at the time of the Magna Carta the emerging common law precepts was handed over to the king by his nobleman and then embodied in the Carta. Carta I believe means Charter? If Latinized? The Constitution in the same was handed from the people to the Government. Our Constitution isn't a social contract as some like to think, is a charter. The 1st amendment gives us the right to contract. That is where natural rights concerning contracts end. Once the decision to contract is made, the jurisdiction passes from common law into commercial law or private contract: the rights are agreed upon by the parties to the contract and they may very well be in contradiction to natural and inherent rights. Rights are not negotiable, or shouldn't be, but contracts are.
The parties involved in the contract would be actual steering wheel.

That we contract unwittingly is a different matter.

Honestly, since I become aware of this track of 'the people's law' I was convinced that it was a foolish endeavor despite the honest effort behind it (and with respect to El Sid as he seems one of the earlier proponents of the movement). Only the naive can possibly believe that this kind of knowledge can be turned against the state. Too much precedent too much legal gobbledygook that can be judicially enforced by the professionals. For the little guy in this there are several characterizations, Don Quixote, tugging on Superman's cape, and/or, it's like peepee-ing into the wind.

My limited foray taught me, as an example, about squatter law because it has ramifications for southern (and northern) border crossers. By theoretical law (as passed to the U.S. by way of British law), a wetback can cross the border, sit on your lawn without consequences and with the correct machinations eventually claim authority over your property. Now I ask anybody with a modicum of 'common' sense, how likely is that outcome?

Aianawa

7th April 2023, 10:43

Chuckie you may have noticed a few things falling apart around the Earth, so new things evolve.

Diabolical Boids

7th April 2023, 20:01

Honestly, since I become aware of this track of 'the people's law' I was convinced that it was a foolish endeavor despite the honest effort behind it (and with respect to El Sid as he seems one of the earlier proponents of the movement). Only the naive can possibly believe that this kind of knowledge can be turned against the state. Too much precedent too much legal gobbledygook that can be judicially enforced by the professionals. For the little guy in this there are several characterizations, Don Quoxote, Pulling on Superman's cape, and/or, it's like peepee-ing into the wind.

My limited foray taught me, as an example, about squatter law because it has ramifications for southern (and northern) border crossers. By theoretical law (as passed to the U.S. by way of British law), a wetback can cross the border, sit on your lawn without consequences and with the correct machinations eventually claim authority over your property. Now I ask anybody with a modicum of 'common' sense, how likely is that outcome?

There's no question common law has been preempted by the various commercial laws that are called Bills of Exchange act, Trust Law ( a monster convoluted law_) Federal Reserve Act, UCC, Canada has a name for its UCC, and like all laws has various interpretations. I've seen it work, accidentally mostly, but the likelihood of the people being able to exercise their rights, privileges and what is owed to them is unlikely without a long planned mass effort with lots of lawyers and judges which isn't likely.

I've observed very common laws preempted by public opinion, not governments, corporations or politicians but plain ordinary mob mentality. A home goods store was robbed, the felons were getting away in the car. A woman drew a bead on the get away vehicle to arrest their flight which is allowed and even expected under common law where felonies are concerned. Because half the nation fell apart screaming like they were victims of a gunshot wound insisting the woman was a murderer. The DA had to cave and charge her with something even though there was nothing on the books to charge her with. So she had a post a nominal bond of 50 bucks to satisfy a public who couldn't respect the law, even though the law was on her side. I can't blame corporations and governments for all of it

Aianawa

8th April 2023, 06:51

Sooo Dia B , imo we have won as such, the now has been won, the future one won, the now won needs fufullment not its opposite emptyment, the change is happiness imo, my gosh how could this be so, looky around the Earthy atm, sheer lunasee ?, Y heaven on Earth has always been the introdution to 42 and is happening now.

eggysample, go to a crowded place, say a mall, find a seat or some such, relax, bring energy, qi etc into yourself then pulse it out, or however you, one does it, give it time then open your eyes n go for a vwalk, just watch your, the , it or the now, become strongly synchronisticalllly impressive.

Aianawa

8th April 2023, 08:22

Aianawa

8th April 2023, 08:43

Emil El Zapato

8th April 2023, 11:16

This out fr4om Craig a couple of hours ago, know what he is talking about Dia B ?.

While the masses put all their energy in the drama's of the fear of digital currency, H.R.2435 are being passed to take us to the gold standard. H.R.2435 along with the change's to the world banking system that came into affect on the 1st of April, no dealing in securities (meaning you) all banks in the world had to comply, those that don't come down. It is this that you are witnessing not the take over of the NWO (they already had control.) The power is coming back to you as a indervidual, not a group, not a race of people but YOU. Things will look ugly but it is not what it seems, don't let your mind run away with you. And yes this is inclusive to New Zealand and Australia. DON'T BY INTO THE NOISE GOING FORWARD, ITS JUST NOISE THAT HAS TO PLAY OUT. Oh, I forgot. Much Love to ALL.

The most significant problem with the gold standard is that all the gold in the world is only a small fraction of the value of the world economy.

My philosophy on economics. What most people call 'fiat' is considered a bad thing, I think it is good. It is an unreal mechanism for maintaining a system of world management. The aspect of management I would agree is a nasty thing but it allows an easier transition to economic nothingness and that I see as the ultimate goal. A world that goes 'round without the stratification based on wealth.

Emil El Zapato

8th April 2023, 11:25

See n feel certain of the topics in a different light nowadays

Well, it could surely be argued that it is primal, fundamental and base(ic). The knowledge of the ancients on display, but are we to remain ancient as a species or do we move forward and to the heavens, the acknowledged home of the gods. I say Uden didn't have our best interests at heart, rather he wanted us to remain lowly and subservient.

Aianawa

8th April 2023, 20:41

the languagr used before tilt and ice wall and after combined, paradise reset yes rest but after Now woN language coming in.

lol adding , arkeytype 101010 or oxoxox ? hel whole etc, gotta fin that vid yet, informative indeed.

Aianawa

12th June 2023, 08:55

https://prussiagate.substack.com/p/urania-part-vii?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Seeing some parralells from this data with here being presented

Emil El Zapato

12th June 2023, 09:26

Aristotle was the original asshole, Aianawa! Prototype for the 'man'...a.k.a. the powers that be.

Diabolical Boids

12th June 2023, 11:40

Emil El Zapato

12th June 2023, 17:08

The bill is stalled after intro into the house and has a 2 percent chance of moving from there.

A return to the gold standard would reestablish power and sovereignty to the individual capable of such things. We already have a power, the power of the consumer and boycott power and we don't use them.

But as individuals we currently do not have the power to prevent wars. The amount of gold backing the dollar is fixed, quantitive easing is not. One war will bankrupt the gold and we'll be back on fiat currency in no time. Thats how we ended up on it in the first place.

And we have to start looking to a future. Gold standard is the past, Federal Reserve is the past. Think of something like a quantum economy and quantum currency.

Our governments claim they are looking to the future when all the futures look like some form of feudalism. That's also living in the past.

Texas has apparently introduced legislation to make illegal voting a crime tantamount, actually not tantamount, equivalent to murder. Why? Because they imagined a conspiracy to withhold available ballot supplies to shrink the vote in county areas of Houston and elsewhere that voted overwhelmingly in favor of Democrats. The 'magical' and 'projection' thinking of the right...is...is...precisely characteristic.

Diabolical Boids

12th June 2023, 19:01

Texas has apparently introduced legislation to make illegal voting a crime tantamount, actually not tantamount, equivalent to murder. Why? Because they imagined a conspiracy to withhold available ballot supplies to shrink the vote in county areas of Houston and elsewhere that voted overwhelmingly in favor of Democrats. The 'magical' and 'projection' thinking of the right...is...is...precisely characteristic.

Another example of being unable to move forward.

Aragorn

12th June 2023, 19:09

Yay, another thread conquered by the addiction to US-internal politics, even though it never had anything to do with that. :facepalm:

Diabolical Boids

12th June 2023, 19:18

Yay, another thread conquered by the addiction to US-internal politics, even though it never had anything to do with that. :facepalm:

It's a black hole isn't it?

But that singularity is occurring so often I have to think "What is this showing me?"

Answer: We can't get away from old thinking. If we can't no one in power is going to feel any urgency to.

This sort of thinking served us I suppose when I was growing up but we are in a post internet, post 2012 world, post pride, post America world now. The world that this OLD thinking served no longer exists. WE can't get beyond it. We are living in the past.

Electric vehicles really? When I was growing up I was assured we'd have transporters like on Star Trek

And we should.

This is the time for John Mellencamp politics but nope, can't get our head out of the past.

We'd rather be right than happy, and left than happy too.

Emil El Zapato

12th June 2023, 20:15

Yay, another thread conquered by the addiction to US-internal politics, even though it never had anything to do with that. :facepalm:

I had no clue, I just cued off of the 'bill is stalled'. I did think for a second why that? but I just went ahead.

So the next question would be ...I'm getting dizzy as I type this... but is it appropriate to comment on the Gold Standard? ...In my estimation that is an old silly argument...Maybe that alone is enough...Two boids with one stone in this case. I love it when that happens.

modwiz

12th June 2023, 20:18

Yay, another thread conquered by the addiction to US-internal politics, even though it never had anything to do with that. :facepalm:

Vern has a thing for USA politics. I went to the sub-stack post and went through it.

I don't inderstand the attraction to the same old memes, true or not.

Seems to be written for the chronically dense or those who want some Q porn.

Vern is not dense so it must be the Q porn.:ha:

I miss Elen.

Aragorn

12th June 2023, 20:24

I had no clue, I just cued off of the 'bill is stalled'. I did think for a second why that? but I just went ahead.

There's your problem. The correct order is to think first and to type afterwards, not the other way around. :rolleyes:

So the next question would be ...I'm getting dizzy as I type this... but is it appropriate to comment on the Gold Standard? ...In my estimation that is an old silly argument...Maybe that alone is enough...Two boids with one stone in this case. I love it when that happens.

Of course it's okay to comment on that, as long as you're doing it on a thread where it would be on-topic. And somehow, adhering to that very simple rule appears to be very difficult for you.

This thread here was about the Bock Saga (which doesn't have anything to do with US politics or with the financial-economical system) and how Elen perceived it to be some kind of inspiration for or segue into "The Lord of the Rings" (which also doesn't have anything to do with US politics or with the financial-economical system).

Vern has a thing for USA politics.

Alas, yes.

I don't inderstand the attraction to the same old memes, true or not.

Neither do I, but it appears to have the same effect on some people as heroin. They need their daily "fix." :unsure:

Seems to be written for the chronically dense or those who want some Q porn.

Vern is not dense so it must be the Q porn.:ha:

Well, Vern is definitely into Q porn, that much is true. I don't understand that either. Apart from the fact that Q has always been repulsively fascist, I had it pegged as a LARP intended to support the election and an intended re-election of Orange Jesus™ from the very beginning. :noidea:

I miss Elen .

Well, apparently she's not missing us, Brother. She kept on making excuses for not having to log on and not having to assume her responsibilities as a moderator — always leaving the dirty work to me — and ultimately she simply turned her back and walked away. We didn't even fire her. She simply vanished, and after three months, I returned her to the status of a regular member. :noidea:

:unsure:

Diabolical Boids

12th June 2023, 21:37

My apologies. I was answering Vern's question since he poised it at me. I thought the thread had gone off topic pages back to end up at the Gold Standard now.

Aragorn

12th June 2023, 21:47

My apologies. I was answering Vern's question since he poised it at me. I thought the thread had gone off topic pages back to end up at the Gold Standard now.

Alas, as our brother modwiz pointed out, Vern is just as guilty in this thread derailment as you and Chuckie, because he does indeed have an obsession with US-internal politics and anything ado with the infamous and already long ago proven fake Q.

But of course, Vern going off-topic is one thing, and other people reacting to that as if it's dangling bait is yet another. And especially so if they have ADHD, like a certain murderous doll we have wandering around this neck of the woods. :p

modwiz

12th June 2023, 21:58

Having rewatched video two of a three video series, I can see why this saga does not have any real legs.

Not of much utilty, IMO.

Aragorn

12th June 2023, 22:46

Having rewatched video two of a three video series, I can see why this saga does not have any real legs.

Not of much utilty, IMO.

In that case, given that Elen as the thread starter has disappeared into the mists, and with Vern having randomly selected this thread for posting about his personal obsessions, I think it will be wise to lock this thread, with a meme I created a long time ago, but which I have — tolerant and patient as I believe myself to be (:rolleyes:) — so far never used, notwithstanding my staff announcement of 30 August 2019 (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/13170-A-new-temporary-Forum-Rule-the-lifespan-of-which-is-to-be-determined-by-myself-only).

2816

:locked: