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donk
30th September 2015, 15:21
I haven’t yet had the inclination to look at the reactions to my last post just yet, I have taken the time to reflect on what I have been and why. Even though I felt (BELIEVED) I was being mindful (if a little emotionally charged), I like to go back and check my beliefs with as much brutal honesty as I can, usually trying to empathize with as many as I can who shared whichever experience…in this case: my posting here.

While I can’t even remember the exact words that set me off, how I remember my urge to post was in reaction to what I saw as Malc (and “nobody”) in particular, and the forum in general, spinning around in the same old loops.

For years, we have watched “whistleblowers” come and go. While each one has different specifics, some of the patterns actually seem to be slowly beginning to emerge, at least in the broad forum context of being visible to even a casual viewers of these types of places.

What typically happens is an individual or idea gets a flood of attention (rush of loosh?), the more vocal of the community as well as the fans of the particular individual or idea go to work trying to bring out as much information as can be possibly gleaned from this medium—with a lot of divisiveness coming in this process, due to the emotional attachments of those that tend to be the most vocal.

This place (and a lot of the others) have done a nice job of learning from those episodes, growing and evolving….at least in that aspect. Lots of “data” and the closest thing we can get to “evidence” are brought to the table thanks to a solid of job of moderation in doing their best to remove the extremes of the emotional charge and distracting personal issues…for that we should all be proud, moderation is not needed only from the mods.

But something happens when we start looking at HOW this happens….when we start to examine WHY these individuals or ideas are brought to the front of our collective consciousness. This is the aspect I am most interested in, so much so that I feel it may be significantly more important than anything else we talk about. I may be wrong, but I don’t feel like there’s much of a point of talking about the structure or contents or future of a house that we observe sprouting up in a murky swamp, if you’ll humor my analogy.

The most recent example that specifically triggered me to spout off on this train of thought, is watching BR prosteylze to his flock about the Corey situation. Watching him “correct” those that choose to give his story energy is frustrating, I’d like to (verbally) “shake” those otherwise intelligent folks nodding in agreement and contributing to the guru’s teachings of how to discern information and treat whisteblowers and expect psyops and get in their face screaming: BUT WHERE THE EFF DID HE COME FROM GUYS???? SHOULDN’T THIS GUY HAVE SEEN IT COMING??? …..and failing that (because he obviously, horribly, tremendously did), at least take responsibility, admit the mistake and analyze it so he (and everyone else) can truly understand how it happened?

And I know that the above paragraph invites all of the many vocal critics to my many variations of this same exact thought to steer the conversation away from the point I am trying to make and towards projections of whatever emotional attachments you think I have to Bill or PA or Corey or whatever…I need to stop and give props to Malc here: that silly ******* did something I see so little of people in his position: admitted to his mistake.

He may not see exactly as I do (we see eye to eye on very little…which to me, makes me value him as someone to interact with even more than anyone who agrees with me), but when he received the flood of the (poorly explained, murky) exodus or the cult of Corey…he basked in being the platform that was essentially the “promised land” for the goodET disciples for a bit…but somewhere in that emotionally charged chaotic mess** made the right decisions, the captain steered the ship (I am sure with the help of mates in his crew…and probably even some of us that were just along for the ride) back to a better course. With the icing on the cake admitting to his mistake, which I have a lot of respect for.

I’m also impressed with how the aftermath is being handled, letting the lone remaining enthusiastic Corey cultist post up his stuff without harassment (while not drawing more energy toward it)….where he was banned elsewhere where annoyance or whatever for “flawed” point of view leads to the “forum sanitation” is more important than tolerance for any point of view—even those pushing some dark or different or weird agenda. Cuz the fact of the matter is…urikorn’s “view” is out there, why not let him reveal it…as long as conflicting views are delivered without attack (and he’s not attacking or pushing anybody)? So there’s some more props for malc and admin and this place…to those who would project motives on to me.

Because regardless of what anyone thinks…my real motive is to make positive contributions to this “community”. Rather than analyze the validity of data that disproves the possibility of Neptune-sized spheres effecting the gravity of our solar system, I try to understand how any piece of data gains any attention…which sometimes necessarily includes looking at PERSONAL details of the people delivering it. And a lot of time, they are not “personal” in the “social norm of letting people have their family secrets” sense…but in their personal relationships as they are revealed on this “public” medium which allows for SO much perception management, given that it is mostly written word and recorded videos.

So now that I’ve looped around and around (but toward) it…my point I hope to make is that I wonder:

Is there a dynamic or device or intent that is external to any (or most) of us that participate in this arena which actually protects itself from the possibility that we analyze true origins…actual cause…THE TRUE REASON INFORMATION IS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION…the how and why it becoming a part of our reality?

We have as many data points and way more direct experiential data to analyze the how and why of Corey became goodETxSG whistleblower who we could not name to DW’s longtime friend and current partner selling trinkets and more stories. We have direct access to a lot of the characters involved. We get to see a lot of relationships, through a relatively long period of time, and overlaps with other seemingly unrelated characters. The story to me is way more interesting than avians or giants…and seem to effect most members of the community directly.

Because it’s insane to me to just accept information from the dude that probably still stands by a narrative that he probably still believes (if not pushes) that our humble founder hacked his site. And the only reason I do the opposite with malc that I do with him (give his motives the benefit of doubt before I look at what he says through critical eyes…I try to do both for both dudes, but when BR is going to tell me how to treat the whistleblowers he creates, he gets the latter first) is that he admitted to his mistake, rather than preach to everyone continuing to make it.

But that’s the loop of the community, and though I may have been wrong in slipping, and reading that behavior in what nobody was saying and malc was agreeing to…I felt it strongly enough at that time to post my outburst. I hope you accept my apology for anything you may have taken personally, malc…that was not my intent. I’m just doing what I can to identify…so hopefully I can help in us breaking…what I see is not just a loop that we humans would choose to perpetuate anyway, but what I feel may be an actual method/implant/mindset that subtly locks us in to it.

I hope I made sense. I am trying to be done posting in private threads, as I try (successfully so far) to be done with pm’s. I don’t believe attempting to hide anything does anything beside show you fear your own truth (or that of others)…but I understand if you feel the need to move this.

**so much was lost during this time, which I think a lot of folks would agree was a more directed overt “attack”, than the subtle one I am attempting to discuss. “Friends” turning on malc, pris’ issues, those with issues with Simon, the emergence of attention toward Shane, tons of stuff…all would be great to discuss, if not for inability to emotionally detach….and to not “move on” before learning as much as we can, no matter how charged or painful the subject.

bsbray
30th September 2015, 17:23
While I can’t even remember the exact words that set me off, how I remember my urge to post was in reaction to what I saw as Malc (and “nobody”) in particular, and the forum in general, spinning around in the same old loops.

For years, we have watched “whistleblowers” come and go. While each one has different specifics, some of the patterns actually seem to be slowly beginning to emerge, at least in the broad forum context of being visible to even a casual viewers of these types of places.

I have an issue with the same thing, because I've seen the same pattern and it can be depressing to think about.

Somebody just sent me this link and I just have to facepalm thinking of how many more deserving people there are in the world who can't afford a meal:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/bdo46v.jpg


What typically happens is an individual or idea gets a flood of attention (rush of loosh?), the more vocal of the community as well as the fans of the particular individual or idea go to work trying to bring out as much information as can be possibly gleaned from this medium—with a lot of divisiveness coming in this process, due to the emotional attachments of those that tend to be the most vocal.

Agreed about the divisiveness too. So if people come in "guns blazing," criticizing this person who others are beginning to see as some kind of hero or idol, it just creates a dual mindset that makes these people say to themselves, "no, this whistleblower is doing good things, I'm on their side, I have to support them no matter what from these _______" (fill in the blank: disinfo agents, sheep, idiots, etc.).

I don't really even have the interest to argue with people about these constantly-emerging figures anymore but I like it when I see people beginning to think more critically because they've been around for the few months necessary to see how the merry-go-round works.



Is there a dynamic or device or intent that is external to any (or most) of us that participate in this arena which actually protects itself from the possibility that we analyze true origins…actual cause…THE TRUE REASON INFORMATION IS BROUGHT TO OUR ATTENTION…the how and why it becoming a part of our reality?

I interpret this as really asking, "is all of this distracting merry-go-round action a counter-intelligence program?" If that's what you're getting at, then that's the million dollar question, isn't it?

donk
1st October 2015, 15:01
I interpret this as really asking, "is all of this distracting merry-go-round action a counter-intelligence program?" If that's what you're getting at, then that's the million dollar question, isn't it?

YES! ...not that I (or you) think "yes" is an answer....I'm saying YES! in relief someone that you agree that's an important question.

And not important in that all of the information presented to us seems to point toward that...but the fact that even if it's not, that idea is one that goes round and round in circles with the extreme end of the "know thyself" truth that gets twisted when taken too far. As in: no it's, in YOU. It's human nature. Some people just like drama. ...and all the other things that get tangled up in projecting the "love of drama" or oversensitivity or victim mentality on people that have valid beefs....along with strong emotional charge.

So I watch in the cult that most of came from, where the leader is dictating what ideas are acceptable to believe, which of the voices are ok according to his keen discernment and logc, all while seperating himself from it, as if he is not a part of it, and none of it applies to him. I spent most of time for a little stretch there trying to hold him to his own standard, trying to understand why the insight he has, the relationships he's formed (and uses when convienient, and denies relevence/importance when it doesn't serve his image or message. If we believed a fraction of the information we share and analyze and discuss and actually apply the ramifactions/implications--we would recognize that WE need to scrutinize ourselves, as individuals, as a community, as transmitters of messages, and most of all followers or leaders...and actually hold BOTH responsible the way always talk about--that means APPLYING what we learned to ourselves. It means holdings leaders that find themselves in that position to the standards we hope for, it means really really taking seriously the idea of reality creation.

And so of course, it would be unfair or hypocritical of me to not treat malc the same way, so I hope the criticism I point out is taken as the opportunity I tried presenting to others when I did it...and recognize my praise and respect when I do express is sincere--I just really hate the lovey-dovey-lighty over the top self fellation ALL of these forums tend to fall into, as there's a lot of folks that are into that...it's not just me. Our actual experiences are just as valid, if not more so, than any authority on "evidence" says a piece of data we find is. We are a better judge of "intelligence" than any of these agency charts, and can be as good as the think tanks and creators of propoganda, if we are self aware to look at WHY and HOW it comes into our presence. And we don't need CIA quantified charts to tell us the level of validity a "whistleblower" has...the thing about WHISTLEBLOWERS in this arena that so many seem to forget: THEY ARE MOSTLY AN EMAIL AWAY. Most will chat with you directly on skype, if you ask them. The way we interact online sometimes is beyond bizarre...which leads me to wonder about that poignant question....tech isn't just metal machines, we have a strange seperation in our mindset from the technology that is ideas that manipulate mindsets, collectives, consiousnesses.

So I use these guys, these forum founders in particular, not because I want to...I wish I had examples that don't come with as much emotional charge...but maybe that's part of it? It certainly is if the answer to the question is "no, you're delusional, why would there be psyyop on sch a ****ant little sliver of the population?"...but it also speaks to the "go within" side of things, where it is the explanation, excuse, answer to any issue. Making detached conversations to resolve conflict and bring community together nearly impossible. What I'm trying to do is break down sides...which is impossible to do without accurately identifying them. I am under no ddelusion that my perspective is 100% correct, I'd be surprised if I have anything even close to half-right, but I am putting it out there in hopes the truths become affirmed and the errors and misconceptions are corrected and clarified. Is it part of the tech, the ability to attach emotional charges to ideas? To jack the charge that is "naturally" there? And that brings up the other thing I think these forums are best for hashing out: What is "natural"....what things really "just happen"....this to me seems to be a covert religion we've all been tricked into not realize we slip in to from time to time: the belief in random. That's just my personal disclosure, I suppose, my beleif is that "random" is one of the stranger "gods" out there, one that aethists seem to worship, and those beliefs are just as disempowering as extreme monotheistic diety worship (authority)

Anyways...I have been chipping away at breaking down the resistance to this conversation for years now, so thank you bsbray for giving me a little affirmation that I am slowly but surely refining my message. It also seems people are becoming more savvy to the emotional attachment loops, and showing less fear in approaching this thing. What this really is a sort of self reflection of the forum, of the community, of our selves. We have to learn to see the beliefs we don't realize we're afraid to analyze (especially those of that feel that we're "open-minded", so getting in that loop could NEVER happen to us :watch: this is something I worked damn hard to recognize in myself), and the SIDES we don't even know we were taking.

I was hesitant to come back to see the reaction, what I dreaded more than anything was someone thinking I was trying to create drama for the sake of it, or stoke "forum wars" that only exist when people take sides. I believe there's a case to me made that there's beings that engage in both, but I also think it is not some "random" thing, that shoud be ignored and we "move on" from without thoroughly analyzing.

I realize most want to analyze the wildest stories that people come up with. I understand that most folks actually have had anamolous experiences that even the lies and fabrications and wild stories sometimes affirm, or mirror. I realize a lot of folks feel the investigative approach to information we've learned from cult ure and authority our whole lives seems the only valid one. But I feel like I discovered a new way of looking at things to get more practical truth and useful information, empowering stuff...or rediscovering it, I guess....as it's kind of like a 2 year old....the response to every answer I get, I ask "why"....and they tell me and then ask "why" again...until I get to the point where something is "solid".

Which I feel is the best metaphor. We are taught that on a certain level, nothing is really solid, it's all open space with some sort of thingys that almost seem like mass, until you get them in a partical collider and realize they're really fractally...whatever, energy, who knows. But there's a level of understanding that the table is solid enough that I can put my coffee cup on it, which is a level practical enough for that purpose. I think what's happening is that we are tricked into being satisfied with that level when it's more important to get down to the partical physics of it...or conversly the when the "furniture" bigger macro level is important we're convinced the deeper is level is needed. It's a twisting of the idea of "enough"....anyways now I'm rambling as this is an idea I'm still working on refining, I hope I didn't lose too many people, forgive...that's my thoughts for now, cathc y'all in a bit

Dreamtimer
1st October 2015, 15:26
donk, I like your sig line question. It kind of answers itself. To be present. To exist. I just have to decide how.

bsbray, I saw that screenshot too. Jeez Louise...

donk
1st October 2015, 15:31
About that FB clip you posted, that is something I feel that is a great example of what I'm talking about.

The immediate reactions (I would guess) are to judge Corey, judge and/or feel sympathy or something for the “donator”…but most of all: accepting that it is in my reality because Yeshua wanted to give Corey more money than most people have….and ALL the emotional attachments to the numerous issues this EMOTIONAL TRIGGER brings.

And the slightly more savvy of us have the “acceptable beliefs about marketing” thought that it is made up by Corey or his team to attract like behavior in real life.

And the slightly more savvy than that will say while any or all of those motivations may be true, it ultimately could be some kind of test, social experiment, data mining. Seeing what the FB world accepts, and seeing how the meme spreads, and how the “information” is interpreted and used.

And I try to think differently than all of those, I starting from the point of accepting it at face value, and empathetically analyze it through my intuition and logic, both of which I know are imperfect and easily manipulated, so it goes something like:

oh…what an odd thing to be in my reality. If there is REALLY a conscious being capable of being scammed or truly believe that giving Corey $10k is a decision that will make their life better, and it would make their reality better to do it in a perfect way…then WTF does that mean in the context of what I think “reality” and human behavior is? Is this information, brought to me by concerned members of the alt community, truly an individual doing that action? ….well, that’s really hard for me to believe, I think it is more likely a fabrication…what data is being gleaned or trauma being inflicted in this case? ….currently I have suspicions, but am going to set them aside before making “solid table” conclusions…

….Cuz what may be most interesting to me, is what are the concerns of the people sharing it. Well guess what, someone brought it to a skype chat, and I got to learn one-on-one from someone I can relate to and trust and respect that they are worried about folks falling for spiritual scams.

So is this a valid concern in this case? Well, as much as I hate to someone victimized…there’s an “enough” here…a threshold of beliefs that are ok to have and act upon that is clearly self destructive. And if that person is incapable of seeing it from the data the “victim” is presented, well I am not going to be able to act on that. That person does not share a reality I can relate to, since the way that they interpreted the information in their awareness lead them to the conclusion to make that post on FB (and don’t even get me started on the choice of handle). So either good on Corey for finding beings I cannot understand that he was able to take energy from, or uh-oh this guy has some serious mind control tech he’s allowing us to have knowledge of that’s capable of making seemingly intelligent (at least semi-literate and able to type on FB) being do something seemingly self-destructive, or….well, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to get to “enough” and “move on” until we can get to a more solid conclusion.

And that leaves open the possibility that URIKORN is right, this guy is spiritually more advanced than any of us…after all, he captured PA’s attention and then ours and DW and his followers and is getting stacks of high society sent to his FB to this day…won’t we look silly when those giant spheres activate and the galactic UN holds a meeting in the temple in Philadelphia the pope blessed, stranger things have happened, eh?

All jokes aside: more than anything, I believe we need to ruthlessly examine our beliefs, especially about how good our logic and intuition are....


donk, I like your sig line question. It kind of answers itself. To be present. To exist. I just have to decide how.

bsbray, I saw that screenshot too. Jeez Louise...

The sig line is not just for you...it is for every piece of information that appears in your reality. including each post it is attached to.

bsbray
1st October 2015, 18:19
...but it also speaks to the "go within" side of things, where it is the explanation, excuse, answer to any issue. Making detached conversations to resolve conflict and bring community together nearly impossible.

I agree with the sentiment of "going within," and actually I think that is why there is so much damn distraction "out here." I'm fairly convinced that someone out there is intentionally organizing ways to screw with people's heads exactly as MSM does. In these alternative circles, the worst thing someone could be telling everyone, imo, is why meditation is so important, or seeking out mystical experiences in whatever way you are able to receive them, or about Jungian psychology, or the why's and how's of things like Qi Gong to work with energy.

All of that stuff is empowering and all it's inner work. You change what's going on with your consciousness, and you'll change the entire way in which you perceive and interact with the world around you, and that might sound obvious but in practice it's not at all a trivial thing. Instead of coming from this space, the merry-go-round of whistleblowers has us looking outside for saviors and boogeymen. I realize it probably sounds like a cliché but the saviors and boogeymen we need to think about the most are in our own minds already. When we begin to address that then we will all be able to better work together.

Outlander
3rd October 2015, 04:41
Excellent thread, donk!

donk
3rd October 2015, 14:36
What I hope to do is make sure the prevailing belief here is not any specific ideas in particular....we should be able to disagree on anything so the common ground should be respect for that. Recognizing that gaining insight on differing point of views is why we are all hear, whether it is different from the mainstream or each other or even conflicting beliefs within ourselves.

That does not mean allowing "cults" to personalities and beliefs to thrive (or even form), it means defusing them before they get too much momentum, by analyzing the beliefs and motives behind them detachedly. We showed movement toward that direction with the Corey situation and applied lessons on handling issues with Shane's material and worshippers...so next time this cycle starts ramping up (or "device" is implanted or loop seed planted or peeps get too spellbound again or whatever the phenomenon that is going on...) it will be even less effective in dividing and distracting, which is the end result no matter your belief on what it really it is and how it starts.

It does not mean mushy praise can't heaped on each other or nasty emotional outbursts on each other will not happen, it means when it gets to the point where it starts looking like drama that we break it down and analyze it until we understand what's going on to the best of our ability, hopefully healing wounds and resolving problems as they come, before "moving on" prematurely.

If malc starts telling everyone who's acceptable to believe and why the counterculture is a threat to his authority, if aragorn starts using intelligence agency charts to rate the sterling integrity of media characters, if bsbray uses his historical or experiential data in ways he doesn't apply to himself, we as collective voice concerns that it seems we are slipping into we've discovered and mostly agree on is the same "authority" pyramidal sort of structure that groups tend toward and we don't fall into that trap. It seems hard to break this loop but these guys are showing we are heading in the right direction,maybe together we really can make a difference, if we approach this whole thing differently than the ways everybody else has always seemed to have it done it

And to me I believe that all comes from self reflection, brutal honesty and near embarrassing open-ness, as individuals first and projecting that outward as a group. It means admitting mistakes and staying with the tough conversations. It means empathizing with the craziest or even evil seeming ideas to make sure we have best understanding and aren't jumping to false conclusions before helping to make sure the empowering counter to it is at least out there, even if it ends in agreeing to disagree. All while making sure we don't take that very "go within" concept to the extreme...when I started out I "got it" intellectually but until it's really in your heart, some ways it gets delivered meets some internal resistance, and the idea gets twisted, or sounds trite.

I think we've been on this path, it's why I've chosen to not give up, why I'm still posting here. I just feel that it helps if it's vocalized, that we will never be 100% perfect at practicing what we preach, so when it's pointed out to us we need to shake the "defense" program that seems prevalent and be open to accepting the gift of criticism for what it can be,'when we do that more easily defuse the false or unfair projections we tend to get defensive or upset about.

So I'm glad this appreciated, so happy we can have this conversation. My tag line is a reminder to myself, something I try to apply to every thought, try to think before every action, and try to apply to every "piece of data", every experience. And I feel wth more people on board this approach to the reality we find ourselves in, the better I (we) can make sense of it and find activities to engage to truly answer the question for ourselves....to have the best most empowering purposes for this go-around, this incarnation, making this experience we share the best it can be

enjoy being
3rd October 2015, 22:12
I try to keep a predominant level of detachment from all these people and their blah blah and wah wah. So many are Americans, I see the illness being strong in the USA and will easily dismiss most of all the hours and hours of footage and theorems as symptomatic behaviour. I have not watched or listened to a single byte of the fellow Corry. I have no need to and no interest in it. Certain behaviours of people who have, have but only solidified my stance of not really giving two hoots. Same with a few others on the circuit, I really don't need to have to soak up all these peoples stories and such. There's Shane, and some other guy with his cosmic wave on the 27th or what ever it was. I sometimes skim though stuff, but I often see all the traps and or hypocrisy within these types. I have seen the prompting by people to others on how to think and translate info, it is what it is, an extension of that persons fear and desire to hold their perception on reality as being the one truth. Their need to drag and drum others along with them seems to be evidence of their own hysteria. And yes they should know better, but also it is, upon stepping back or seeing various angles, a series of lessons itself. Perhaps the greater lesson, because after all, this information gathering is as futile and pointless as anything in some respects. What is to be done with the highly detailed information which people soak up? You have all there is to know on topic xyz, now what? How has that helped you? It really is a morbid fascination with details and mysteries a lot of the time. Huge distractions walling people off from just getting in touch with them selves. People can be inspired by others sure. But I agree that there is very quickly a deparure point where one implanter of belief systems is being replaced by another. "Please tell me what to think".
Myself, I sometimes will test these followers with certain posts that require them to deduce fairly simple yet maybe cryptic question or subjects. Commonly they fail to show capabilities to see multifacted meaning and prove their inappropriateness for their self appointed position as mouth piece and number one fan. But that's ok. Again they are teaching this, and have their purpose, even if it is not what they think it is.

donk
13th October 2015, 13:48
Same with a few others on the circuit, I really don't need to have to soak up all these peoples stories and such.

Agreed, me too, but the thing is, many people do. Not only that, they base their decisions, sometimes their LIVES, around what more often than not turn out to be lies (which should have been obvious, however it seems humans mostly only learn meaningful lessons through trauma).

It is often said that these forums are unquestionably good data mines...well I use them for that too. But instead of learning how to manipulate and control people's mindsets, I try to learn how that is accomplished in order to counteract it, at least with those that i encounter in real life. I take it very seriously, which probably appears to be emotional attachment to these characters, which is fine...I beleive a lot of people actually are...I know I was.

I feel it is important to focus on "purpose", to go back to my tagline...make sure we are really mindful of WHY we need to prove a certain point right or wrong, WHY we need to prove that this person or that is telling us something, or lying or whatever. That so easily "gets lost"...perhaps that has something to do with HOW it is actually accomplished.

My purpose is to examine the WHY...in hopes of discovering the HOW. I find myself immersed in a reality of unnecessary illusion, and it is my purpose to help show those I encounter, and even project it further to all those I can reach...to show them that truth (or at least less lies) is empowering to humans, it is a better way to live.

Is that "being a savior"?? I think it can be argued that it is. And that we all need to be, not just for ourselves, but for each other.

Dreamtimer
13th October 2015, 14:22
Being each others' saviors. That's quite profound, donk. And very true.

donk
13th October 2015, 14:49
Being each others' saviors. That's quite profound, donk. And very true.

Yep...getting one without NEEDING one, being one without making "victims"....ah, the paradox of our time, eh?

enjoy being
13th October 2015, 15:38
It is interesting you say these things. There's two things which come to mind that I want to add.

The alternative community is an emotional crucible. Well the whole extended community is an emotional crucible, but in what gets referred to 'the real world' or mainstream, masks hide and distort emotions, clouding the ability to completely see the words between the lines, to work out these why's and hows on human thought. Discussion is not free flowing, people will avoid, obfuscate, deflect, and lie to protect their emotional castle. Much of the time at least half unaware they do so, out of habit and conditioning.

In the 'alternative' community, there are a few queues of people walking through the doors from different places. Some are broken, some have hit that point in the dark night of the soul where they have begun to unravel. "Awakening" can be painful. It can make someone lose their mind temporarily. They battle with belief and straddle old ways of thinking and reacting. Not knowing when to 'submit' and when to remain skeptical. Some of the information new to the scene people are bombarded with is pretty over-whelming. Along the ways, we are all at some point open and prone to quite a few conflicting energies. Many times I have seen people who are going through this, race into a public arena and start telling everyone EVERYTHING they have heard. This sort of aids such reputations of "Crazy Conspiracy theorists", much the same in that religious door knockers tend to turn people away from religion by their behaviour.
This to me is a thing which most of us would know and see. It is a responsibility to help each other while fumbling about in the dark. However, there is also that line where helping can become force feeding and if there is any merit in finding ones own sense of discernment in the dark, we don't want to be doing everything for each other. I think at times each others over concern for one another, or personal fear, might make us "Want to help"..

Which leads me into the second thing, which isn't really a second thing but a continuation. When I first joined a forum in the alternative community, it was I think 9 or 10 years ago, it was the Michael Tsarion forum. It was quite active in those days, for all I know, many around today here or elsewhere belonged to it. I preferred it to other forums operating at the time because it had members who were interested in the psyche and other things which the forums owner spoke of in his material. It was at a time when many of his well known videos were new. Some flocked to get some of his wisdom to rub off. He was anti guru. And in the end he got quite sick of all the forum stuff.. though, I left a short while before they site closed up. Anyhow, that is really just background. The point I wanted to outline here was regards a particular member of that site. Who ever he was I don't know, and it doesn't matter, some of the first 20 or so who had joined that forum seemed to be friends from yet another site previously.. anywayyy This guy, was bordering on being a troll. He wasn't though, he was quite knowledgeable, perhaps a bit arrogant, but he had a unique way of helping people.. or knocking them into shape. Because of it, many people didn't like him, or at least had their moments of heated debate. His method was to be quite direct and spell out to people the erred patterns in their thinking. Slicing through the BS programming they were still in.
It was some time ago to completely remember it. I also found him a bit of a prick at times, maybe he was, maybe he was playing a role. He did so well enough to earn respect still, probably because most of the time, or eventually, he was successful in slapping some sense into people. The firm handed parent.
Sometimes I think that is lacking in some of these communities. Someone who can do so without it being a point scoring exercise for their ego. A community which wont shut off from it out of being offended. It took quite some skill I think, to use the right words so as to make being a prick count. Calling people out politely and firmly but letting them join the dots preferably. Not saying he was completely flawless, there was a few times he was 'wrong' and wasn't one to apologize. Bit of a persona that gave off the impression of a stone heart. Maybe it was just his own reaction to the time and place like the rest of us all here then and now.

But if you are out there Timothy Grass, thanks, even though I never said it at the time. lol.

donk
16th October 2015, 15:48
Nice post, I kind of want to explore a particular idea you brought up:


He did so well enough to earn respect still, probably because most of the time, or eventually, he was successful in slapping some sense into people. The firm handed parent.

I'm pretty sure this is one of the biggest triggers for me, an idea I like to try to defuse. I don't think many see the profundity of concept, how it might be the root of the "blind faith".

A "firm handed" parent is only "good" (empowering, loving) when they transmitting Truth...lessons that will help their child toward choices that will lead to creating the reality they would like to exist in. While obviously that is understood by many (especially those with abusive parents, or the polar opposite--loving, empowering ones), I wonder if this mindset is an element to the mindset we seem to trapped in, the "authority" paradigm....variations includes "respect for elders" (I think it is a bad idea, I have respect for wisdom, no matter the age, it is the quality--not quantity--of the experience another relays to me to determine how "wise" they are), and "reverence for tradition" (that's the way we've always done it....while enduring ideas and customs have value in how long they last, I think there's traps limiting us on questioning WHY)....amongst others. I think the subtler heirarchies hold the key to being able to defuse those on the macro that tend to limit us

I feel like I'm watching these dynamics further fracture the "community" that is supposedly interested in Truth....ironically with the use of the tool that is wild stories of "Parents" who brought this dynamic into our reality. There's a fractal there, an insight into how easily we are deflected from getting down the bottom of why we supposedly "choose" to stay in these loops, chasing our tails. As we watch as the "ruiner" is discarded into pile of proven liars and unhinged attention seekers, instead of focusing on how smart we are for "finding him out"....perhaps we can look a little deeper and figure out how the phenomenon captured the attention of so many, so maybe we can come closer to figure out the true purpose of the next one.

Cuz my guess is that Shane's character hasn't ruined sh!t, from where I'm sitting, it looks like the status quo was maintained, and data was gathered to ensure the next re-direction of our collective energy is even more effective at whatever it's actual intent is.

Why don't we try our own psy-op, on ourselves: let's figure WHY the next big thing captures our attention, and figure out HOW it is that wrapped itself up into our awareness.

Unless you believe it is all individuals' egos, and that you (I) am creating it. I really think that's the big trap, the way the heirarchy perpetuates itself....by convincing us we are doing it to ourselves. Making us feel clever when we discover one of our own is a liar pretending to be "them". Not really believing that that there is an external force or beings that'd manipulate our mindsets and even instincts.

I want to create a reality, where instead of dissecting the gravitational effects of Neptune sized spheres on our solar system, we dissect the ******* that made the thought legitimate in the first place, and figure out why the f*ck he'd reinforce it by even acknowledging it. Instead of dismissing the poopy-face that claims he trained Putin at 13, we get him to explain wtf that even means, and why he would say such a thing...and failing that, start examining how such a being was given such attention, and what it's purpose was.

Because as long as we keep knocking them all down as soon as they pop up, we are never going to figure out how they do it. I really am seeing a pattern, a progression even, as it seems to evolve, reacting to the input we feed it. It seems almost personalized, but I am realizing that is another method, another trick...others are starting to recognize it too. I have a friend that always referred to this whole thing as a chess game, with the adversary thinking many moves ahead...I'm starting to agree, except instead of chess, the game (which the same principal applies, the "player" that can think ahead has the advantage) is hide the opponent. And one of their tactics is to make us believe we are playing chess...a black and white game with concrete easily understood rules. I think it's time to let go of our "understanding, knowing" of the rules...and approaching this thing a different way.

donk
16th October 2015, 16:21
This is nothing like some of our current 15 minutes of internet fame whistleblowers that are cropping up like weeds in the garden.

I found this in another thread...and is exactly what I am talking about.

Why do we accept this? What makes "a 15mins of fame whistleblower" any different or more/less credible or less anamolous than a biracial '69 couple? Do we really they just "crop up like weeds"?

....and even if that is the case, they just appear, and grow, and flourish...because they are a part of "life", all that is...just like "weeds"...what makes a weed a weed? To me: they are plants we don't know how to use in a way empowering to us, which we choose to remove from our existence.

Maybe we need to start looking it at differently?