PDA

View Full Version : Greece problem



jonsnow
12th July 2015, 08:24
Well Banking crises people panic buying food unable to get there money from there account there is a 60 euro limit on every account in Greece

Is it now wiser to keep some money at home just in case because this could be coming to a town or city near you because

Spain is broke
Italy is broke
France is broke
Portugal is broke
Ireland is broke

Is Germany going to bail everyone out and if so at what cost

bsbray
12th July 2015, 18:05
Germany's also over $2 trillion in debt.

The whole banking system is rigged to keep everyone in debt to the bankers. That way everyone always owes something to the bankers, even governments. When normal people go bankrupt from their pyramid scheme, they take property, like your house and your car. Just imagine what they have taken from governments over hundreds of years. The banking industry in the west really is bad news.

Wyndstorm
13th July 2015, 14:55
And where do the BANKS get their MONEY from??

:confused:

I KNOW I KNOW, FROM US PEOPLE!!! :hilarious:

Do birth certificate BONDS ring a bell for anyone??

So you mean, the IMF et al, sells the People back their Value at an interest rate?

EXACTLY

Paper or metal money is only representation of the PEOPLE's VALUE

"The question of money, what it is, where it comes from and why we need to use it - goes largely unanswered in our modern world. We are indoctrinated into a system that is so fundamental to our way of life, with little to no intrinsic knowledge of why. There is a very good reason for this and can be understood once the context of who we are within the legal system is acknowledged.

Our Incompetence To Co-create

Our incompetence is the primary mechanism for establishing the basis of money. An inherent right of consciousness is the ability to choose - a fundamental aspect to life itself is free will. But in order to exercise the will, awareness must come first - how can we make a choice about a thing without being conscious of it?

Governments, religious institutions and society at large presumes humanity is unable to make decisions on its own; that we are incompetent to manage our own affairs. Money serves as a control mechanism, a tool to facilitate the flow of creative energy between two or more parties.

Co-creation - The Effects of Our Actions

In cultures devoid of money, each individuals creative powers and abilities are recognized and trade systems are developed to facilitate the flow of goods and services. In tribal cultures some people hunt or gather, with others staying behind in the village to maintain the shelter - everyone has their unique place in the community working as a whole to ensure all are provided for. The effectiveness of this money free system varies, but the general principle of personal creator-ship yielding goods and services that benefit others is always in place. This aspect of co-creation, that what we do affects others is fundamental and immutable. Harmony within a community is a measure of how well a people is able to recognize the effects of their actions, learning to limit harm and honor the choices of others. This has been called Natural Justice or objective morality."


Excerpt from -
http://sitsshow.blogspot.com/2015/07/the-money-masters-full-length.html

lcam88
13th July 2015, 16:10
I see the "banking problem" as follows:

You can invent "value" out of nothing, the nature of fiat currency. But because it must also represent value, some collateral is required to secure the loan (of some monetary amount) of this invented value, money. That can only happen if every dollar (or euro or yen) is loaned into existence. And it is.

That can only happen if a core critical mass starts by leaders governing buy into the system. Really. Why would I offer a gold mine for something that is not real? And then offer to repay plus interest when I don't control the creation of the fiat? I would depend on being able to sell something I have to make the difference. But if everyone depends on selling their wares for this currency that becomes increasingly scares as loan repayments are made. Why would I accept such a system, even if interest rates where 0.001%? The con.

In a system with a fixed boundary, interest alone will accumulate and eventually a default on the loan repayment is inevitable. The solution? Another loan or a novation of some kind to keep the gear working. That means more collateral needs to be put up front. That is where Greece is, and since they didn't really play ball the first time...

Here is the real kicker, some peoples paper is more easily accepted than others. The actual difference may not be in the nature of the paper itself, it may actually be in who is making the offer. It is easy to make the loan repayment if you have a bank issuing ever more paper in exchange for your paper assets you have make available through any means of creative imagination that are within "norms". Asteroid mining... collateralizing something... And if you do not have such a blessing given by a banker, you must pony up the collateral you put on offer and bye bye "real value" that someone else who is closer to the bank will now manage.

When I see a financial declaration made saying that Walmart is worth 5 billion (or whatever the value is) that only means that the entire collateral of Walmart is "scheduled" to back 5 billion of eventual or actual debt that has been loaned into existence. The actual company might owe more than its worth. (have a net worth below 0).

Government doesn't really own any collateral, but they happen to be interest holders in a special type of asset, their citizenry and that populations willingness to continue paying taxes and playing by the rules. Their evidence of collateral? yeah... there has to be some evidence of the interests held that can be offered as collateral. But really, the birth certificate bond is only the latest arbitrary flavor of derivative they are playing with.

Natural resources, future productivity and derivatives thereof are all game for the offering of collateral. And one day, the bank will have a "legitimate claim of interest" over anything it holds as collateral. They will be ladened in evidences such as signed paper, legal backing as well as an overt acceptance by the masses in the genuine nature of those claims. The masses who trust the money and law legitimize that claim of interest. (perhaps less so with the Greeks, who knows?)

So Birth Certificate Bonds, or whatever other form of derivative that is on offer is only of any real value because someone in the club is accepting them. If you personally where to make an equivalent offer, its acceptance would depend on whether you where in the club or not.

What most people don't realize is they can create and circulate their own notes, by law. The IOU for example; we all know that nobody is actually required to accept them, of course, but that doesn't mean they are prohibited from accepting either. In fact, during the course of business, ordinary paper money can be refused in preference for a credit card or check if procedure has deemed more convenient and vis-versa.

It actually stands as law that refusal to accept payment offered for a standing DEBT, causes discharge of that debt, regardless of the inconvenience in the form of tender deemed to be equivalent value. If an IOU has equivalent value as a bank note, both being promises of a sort, wouldn't a banks refusal of an IOU constitute refusal of payment?

And why is a US treasury bond so different from an IOU? Only because it has been given a number and represents one of a series. You can also add a serial number to your IOUs. <shrug/> what gives?

Both can be printed on 100% cotton bond paper with any other number of optional "security features" or on toilet paper (if you must) but its value is actually the word printed on the face: the issue date, the issuer (drawee), the recipient (payee), a monetary amount, and the serial number if the note is part of a series. The note may optionally declare any number of legal terms implied or expressed as part note or bond that do not define specific performance as part of the validity of the note.

It is signed into existence as money by application of the signature or stamp of the responsible officer who is issuing it. (that is why the line where you sign a check is composed of 1pt font of the printed word "authorized representative" repeated, it becomes money when you sign it (on behalf of the bank it seems) And you can add your own signature qualification if you like.

You will find all 5 of those points on any paper currency in circulation.

What you cannot do is issue paper that is made to resemble something it is not. Fraud. Designing something that can be confused with a bank issued check for example. A bank check is an order for the bank (drawer) to pay the payee made by the drawer. The check can be made into a bearer instrument (paper money) by declaring it payable "as money" "to bearer". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bearer_instrument)

So really, our issue with requiring bank issued money to be exchanged for goods and services we need is actually a demonstration that we do not trust our neighbors to be genuinely good to their word (and signed paper).

I do apologize for the "book" I've written here. I mean only show that banks being powerful is only a reality if people give them power. And to say that power not exercised is not actually power, the power of the courts for example. We have the power, but we just don't use it, we surrender it.

I hope that helps.

jonsnow
13th July 2015, 17:49
well

Money has been many things down history from slave girls ( Ireland ) to seashells ( America ) it value largely depends on people who are willing to accept it for goods and services .

If the entire monetary system collapses as happened in japan money becomes food which for 600 hundred years were unable to print money because they were destroying the value of money in circulation it got to the stage were japan money was refused and people traded in rice.

people only work in there self interest

what future holds

Europe is headed to electronic money as fast as they can
1) stop bank runs
2) collect every penny in taxes
3) save the euro

the euro is cracking at the seems see Greece it can be saved if they combine the debt of every country into one euro bond or the euro will tear it self apart its one country of Europe or every man for himself

OneOfLaw
13th July 2015, 18:54
what a hoax

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11735388/ThisIsACoup-Greece-bailout-demands-spark-social-media-backlash-against-Germany.html

- fabricated, so that troops can - if needed - "calm down" the engineered riots that they of course initiate themselves by coercing greek politcians to accept their requirements. does not change the outcome whatsoever, therefore read it as narrative and observe it like watching a thriller movie. it is all an elaborated hoax and it blows up during the next months.

from benjamin fulford report:

"The Pentagon sources say the Greek drachmas are already in use and that a Greek exit from the Euro was inevitable. What is now coming is bank failures caused by credit default swaps (ie guarantees that Greece would not default), the sources say.

There is also more big trouble coming for JP Morgan, according to the Pentagon sources. They say JP Morgan has sold twice as many US government bonds as were actually issued. In other words, they sold fraudulent US government bonds in order to keep themselves afloat, the sources say."

It is a hoax. concentrate rather on anticipating small communities for barter to align with the upcoming societal modifications. concentrate on rising your own vibration by cultivating your well being. go outside into the sun to directly absorb highly charged energy units due to rising oscillation and income.

Be all forgiving, if needed at all, see these actors as teachers for your spiritual growth process, many are heading to a fourth density experience. it is going to change fundamentally over the course of the next few years, especially due to galactic impacts that are going to hit you sonner than many may anticipate. but ultimately you decide it on your own, the off world activities are not that relevant, it is rather a ride on the razor blade for those that are already awakened to the fact of the amount of deception and hidden activities - you may be delineated from unfolding your own most productive attribution to the shift by constantly upholding what you refer to be "good vibes". this may obfuscate the own transformation due to being too involved in scenarios that have no relevance for your "every day activitities" that may facilitate your own well being which contributes to the collective well being. it is thereby easier to assimilate the higher vibrating and on goingly increasing energies.

but be prepared as well for the physical changes unfolding - but there is nothing to worry it sorts itself out naturally to the most beneneficial outcome that can be manifested with the participants at hand.

lcam88
13th July 2015, 19:22
Europe is headed to electronic money as fast as they can

That is interesting. That translates into 2015AD version of "Consolidate the forces for a new fight against heresy" of the past.

What's the point of this new polarization, especially in context of USA vs Russia?

Do you see a conflict between inside factions?

Is this Greece being a pawn perhaps as the opening play involving another US vs Them? It just doesn't make any sense.

Or is Greece a symptom pointing to the actual problem. What could that problem actually be?

Certainly the size of the Greek debt is only an issue of interest for political maneuvering, the euro cracking at the seems is only evident because something is unsustainable. What could that be?

Edit:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13/why-did-schauble-almost-use-nuclear-option-tim-geithner-explains

jonsnow
13th July 2015, 19:51
for the cycle to change more than 90 percent of people must be wrong

What is coming is a debt crisis huge bomb basically government can borrow without ever paying anything back this history goes back more than 2000 years which is very much hidden from public view why when government tells people there is no pension , your retirement savings are gone they kind of get angry leads to revolutions wars .

Government takes more than half of your basic salary at the moment when this crisis hits they will continue to take more and more of your income . The problem is that Government has got to big spends to much of our income for less of a return . They know people will revolt even small towns in America have swat teams and armoured cars . The people will be forcefully disarmed work camps maybe un troops . It so bad in the states ( USA ) my outlook only I not a expert historically okay its the debt that kill nations and never in history has it being 18 trillion the social programs just simply cannot be funded pension private will be seized ( no choice ) to pay of the debt . It will be called to safe guard your investment all pension funds must buy government bonds once bought they are worthless you lose everything.

In the debt crises 90 percent will lose everything

USA is completely broke has been for years that is why they are causing trouble around world so they can stay on top

Greece is the canary in the coal mine ( for debt crisis )

Euro was badly designed problem is there is debt of each country sold separately in the USA debt is sold but not by state it is sold only as USA debt . Each country Debt should be sold as one European Debt only. It is causing the problem united Europe as one country is the solution ( unlikely to happen I think especially at this stage )

lcam88
13th July 2015, 20:31
Interesting views jonsnow.

90% is a large number indeed.

My point in the first thread I posted (#4) was only that the means are within the grasp of people. But that a mindset change is required, even as you still utilize money in some form. I really only understood the sea-shells from 1807 (not 1907 if memory serves) in California after looking at all the different bank notes in circulation before the feds came in.

The way forward is mined, of course, with false-flags, with provocateurs, with the lying dishonest and all sorts of hazards from drugs to insurance. But that is why I make reference to the neighbor, they are there to stay and they have many of the same problems you do and their problems don't get any better by being dishonest or untrusting, and yet they are; maybe it's too much TV, who knows? Hell, I don't even know many of my neighbors.

It also happens to be source of the basic productivity unit that need only be united, what is practically within reach of every household. But instead, we trust the corporation more than our neighbors, we put up electric fences and wall so our neighbor may not feel welcome to come by. Games theory. Union vs chaos in a sense and guess which one the population embodies?

I am saying: There is no real need to try and topple the apple cart, I'm actually only suggesting that we govern ourselves. Forget about the apple cart; because we can make our own. If a neighbor lies, don't you subject them to a higher standard of evidence? Government lies, why not subject them to that higher standard too? Place your trust in where you know it to be secure, forget govt backed pension funds... I digress. Pardon me.

jonsnow
13th July 2015, 20:55
Government is not searching for terrorism they are searching for money as there search gets more desperate more totalitarian all in the search for money . No matter how much they collect they will squander it problem is government consumes to much .

From 2015.75. in which case there will be a debt implosion in all financial markets banks will refuse to give financing so property will implode which means will sell only for cash no mortgage.

The weather will turn colder headed towards mini ice age so with that famine of world wide scale

ctiger2
14th July 2015, 00:04
Government is not searching for terrorism they are searching for money as there search gets more desperate more totalitarian all in the search for money . No matter how much they collect they will squander it problem is government consumes to much .

From 2015.75. in which case there will be a debt implosion in all financial markets banks will refuse to give financing so property will implode which means will sell only for cash no mortgage.

The weather will turn colder headed towards mini ice age so with that famine of world wide scale

Good to see someone else is reading Marty.

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/armstrong_economics_blog

lcam88
14th July 2015, 12:36
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-14/schaeubles-modest-proposal-greek-bridge-loan-pay-salaries-ious

I have to laugh.

In a way, the IOU's this German minister is proposing as a solution for Greece is similar to what Nazi Germany did pre WWII to get around banking limitations; the issuing of government notes backed by the productivity of the government. Acceptance of these notes became criteria for segregation and as such was "forced" in, not that ordinary bank notes were also not forced in...

Hugh Mann
14th July 2015, 21:23
All debt is an illusion. If the money is fiat, so is the debt. The bankster-scam operates like this. They create money out of thin air backed by nothing. They loan us this money with interest and when we can't repay the loan, they take everything we own. They are getting something tangible for nothing. See the scam?

IMHO the national debt being pushed upon the masses is illegal because the masses did not agree to this debt. In fact the government tried to hide it from us. Did you or anyone you know personally agree to bailout the banks in 2008 to the tune of 28 trillion dollars?

I hope the people of Greece can pull together to crush the criminals of the Greek government and toss the foreign banksters out on their butts. They don't need the EU, IMF, BRICS, FED or any centralized bank. Tell them all to pound sand!

Tanta
15th July 2015, 07:08
Greece problem is something which more than clearly showed EURO project is purely a means of domination. More specifically - the German hegemony. Wolfgang Schäuble showed his colors fully, as did some others.

It was clear even before this that EURO was far more a political project than some sort of an "economy/trade" facilitator. Free trade zone was merely a stick with honey, now the honey is gone, only the stick remains. While EURO policies did prove to be of benefit to some (like Germany, Austria, Netherlands) it was rather detrimental to most others (Ireland, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece...and several other "smaller economy" countries hanging on the brink)

lcam88
15th July 2015, 13:25
All debt is an illusion. If the money is fiat, so is the debt. The bankster-scam operates like this. They create money out of thin air backed by nothing. They loan us this money with interest and when we can't repay the loan, they take everything we own. They are getting something tangible for nothing. See the scam?

IMHO the national debt being pushed upon the masses is illegal because the masses did not agree to this debt. In fact the government tried to hide it from us. Did you or anyone you know personally agree to bailout the banks in 2008 to the tune of 28 trillion dollars?

I hope the people of Greece can pull together to crush the criminals of the Greek government and toss the foreign banksters out on their butts. They don't need the EU, IMF, BRICS, FED or any centralized bank. Tell them all to pound sand!

I agree but have the following comments.

The agreements made that legitimize claims over collateral that was offered for the fiat is equally an illusion. But to question the validity of this illusion, or any other, brings into contention the very legitimacy of contract itself as well as all investment every made in the name of modern social order. And then to claim the investment was folly is a much higher price and much more difficult decision than a continuation of the illusion.

The neat "trick" in the middle of this is our notion that our democracy and form of government is representative of the people. Our elected leaders, a public servants, are endowed to serve the people by representing their interests. That representation means they may form contract (with bankers) on our behalf, even if the system is so shaped that such contracts are a secret, there is only one or two degrees of separation between our power to vote, and the terms of the contracts made.

To delegitimize these agreements requires turning away from civilization as we know it at a personal level. Self-sufficiency is not even in most peoples minds. That is the perspective that needs to be realized when we consider the task of breaking down this illusion. I think it is possible to do. I do go into random ramblings in previous posts on this thread that contemplate aspects of that.

OneOfLaw
15th July 2015, 16:34
do research on the incoming "wave x" (for instance Dr. Simon Atkins). it is advised from the heart to focus on that, investing your creative thought and contemplation - as well as intention - energy into that which actually is of relevance now. this is a great chance - maybe decode it as synchronicity - for you to finally encourage yourself to refuse to accept the deception any longer <3

this is going to be intense, be prepared for this.

These institutions that are discussed here are going to evaporate quite quickly.

lcam88
15th July 2015, 18:14
Yanis at his best:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-15/presenting-greek-terms-surrender-annotated-yanis-varoufakis

Hugh Mann
15th July 2015, 21:19
The neat "trick" in the middle of this is our notion that our democracy and form of government is representative of the people. Our elected leaders, a public servants, are endowed to serve the people by representing their interests. That representation means they may form contract (with bankers) on our behalf, even if the system is so shaped that such contracts are a secret, there is only one or two degrees of separation between our power to vote, and the terms of the contracts made.

Yes, we've been tricked. Tricked into believing our appointed officials (I mean elected) serves the people. We've also been tricked into believing our votes count or matter. There's a saying that goes, if you must do something in secret, you're probably up to no good. Thus the reason behind all of the "national security". They seem to be slapping the national-security label on everything they do so they don't have to answer for their criminal deeds. Well, they're going to have a rude awakening soon (fingers crossed).

I firmly belive we do not need pieces of paper or digital-paper to survive as a civilization. There are a lot of brilliant minds on Earth. I'm 100% confident someone will devise a plan we call all live with.

BTW, Here's an interesting 9-min video I found several years ago detailing election fraud.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_Zz5LW4WmE
Computer Programmer Admits rigging elections for Bush Family