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Chester
6th July 2015, 03:07
Adampants makes some penetrating points... many I felt like were aimed right at me (sad to admit)

xYT6rRliNjs

Chester
6th July 2015, 19:02
Has anyone yet actually listened to the video?

I have - several times... and I admit, in many respects... the video had me looking into my own mirror.

The One
6th July 2015, 19:07
Has anyone yet actually listened to the video?

I have - several times... and I admit, in many respects... the video had me looking into my own mirror.

I only listened to the first 20 minutes Sam and it made me realise how much i judge other people.I am going to make an increased effort not to judge people to quickly and i will try and listen to more when i am not running around after these kids lol

lcam88
6th July 2015, 19:41
I'm starting...

EDIT:

After the first 60 seconds, I can't really understand the context you have your second post Sam. I feel like I'm a sheeple and still need waking up.

Is your context in post number 2 similar to mine? Hmmmm, you owe me an answer. :)

Rebel&Rocket
6th July 2015, 19:54
Thanks, Sam....here I thought I'd just listen to this while I work, and yet again you're distracting me with life lessons... ;)

I make fun of my husband all the time about his addiction to Facebook and entertaining his "fans," and I refuse to engage because, as I tell him, "No one cares what I think." Yet here I am! Throwing stones from my little glass house.....

Thanks, I needed that.

lcam88
6th July 2015, 20:38
So I've listened to like 40 minutes.

Jonathan seems to vocalize some type of frustration that seems to resonate with a similar feeling some of us have had before. I have learned to pick my moments and spare myself the grief (and the grief of others when I am out of their league).

(@ 20:10) debating actually requires a lot of preparation. If the only issue was the subject-matter in discussion, someone in the know cannot really debate an ordinary simply because there can be no presumption about what the actual positions are for the unprepared. And indeed someone unprepared can be steamrolled by intelligent argument and not even notice.

The actual problem after which is whether the spectators may notice what has transpired in their evaluation of the debate; the actual issues the observers likely pick up on are often related to the 38 theorems of dialectic identified by Schopenhauer. And that is how the less informed debater can receive applause and to that extent dominate a debate. (http://www.mnei.nl/schopenhauer/38-stratagems.htm)

A wise friend of mine one said (quoting another friend of his): Never argue with a fool, because an observer will have true difficulty identifying who the fool actually is.

In many ways, engaging in a meaningful discussion is like stepping into the ring in a dueling type sport; all manner of underhand dirtiness that may maim you seriously exists and you know it. It is only your trust in the good nature of your opponent to spare you such suffering and even death, that you sport with him/her in such a fashion.

Ironically at a "spiritual" level, that same trust relationship can be identified between victim and perpetrator, insofar as you accept the idea that "All is One is God".

Aragorn
6th July 2015, 21:00
[...]

A wise friend of mine one said (quoting another friend of his): Never argue with a fool, because an observer will have true difficulty identifying who the fool actually is.

[...]

The version I most commonly see on Usenet is...


"Never argue with a fool. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

:ttr:

lcam88
7th July 2015, 15:23
I see you have applied the second stratagem...

I'll play. I'll try stratagem number 1, just because...

<snip/>

That was clumsy, trying again...

Never argue with a fool. The topic will not be what is seems to be, nor means what it ought to.

Aragorn
7th July 2015, 15:45
[...]

Well Aragorn, how do you actually know you are actually being dragged down? They may indeed be pushing a ton of crap assumptions up a mountain and you with it.

The quote I was referring to signifies that arguing with a fool causes one to eventually resort to the same kind of asinine arguments, accusations and insults as they themselves are using, and that as such, they drag you down to their level -- and beneath yours.

It was only a tongue-in-cheek comment, my friend. Don't take it too seriously. :)


One of the things the video in the OP dwells on is how people come to forums and presume they are now liberated or enlightened.

It is my experience, alas, that this phenomenon is very, very real.


Is it your position, indeed that others drag you down by diminishing this self-realized view of being enlightened? These "enlightened" people people then go on about how everyone else are sheep, how other are liars, and how the letter B may appear to come after the letter A, it is actually located somewhere in the constellation of orion, and that secret can only be known if you have been there and done that. Only after overcoming the hords of cabal and lucifer simultaneously.

How am I doing? Extended beyond natural limits and generalized?

EDIT: perhaps I used a bit of number 38 there. Inadvertently. :/

No, I do not see such people as "dragging me down". I will sometimes attempt to subtly point out to them that they're not as enlightened as they think they are by telling them what they're missing out on, but in many cases -- especially when said people are flaunting their egos -- I will just back out and leave it to the universe to educate them. Stupid people do stupid things, and stupid things lead tot karma. Creation will always bring about karmic resolution, so they will learn, eventually. ;)

lcam88
7th July 2015, 16:10
The quote I was referring to signifies that arguing with a fool causes one to eventually resort to the same kind of asinine arguments, accusations and insults as they themselves are using, and that as such, they drag you down to their level -- and beneath yours.

It was only a tongue-in-cheek comment, my friend. Don't take it too seriously. :)



It is my experience, alas, that this phenomenon is very, very real.



No, I do not see such people as "dragging me down". I will sometimes attempt to subtly point out to them that they're not as enlightened as they think they are by telling them what they're missing out on, but in many cases -- especially when said people are flaunting their egos -- I will just back out and leave it to the universe to educate them. Stupid people do stupid things, and stupid things lead tot karma. Creation will always bring about karmic resolution, so they will learn, eventually. ;)

Pardon my first attempt Aragorn. I was only applying the stratagem, you probably noticed now. I snipped it because I found it to be to general, and misleading to from the point I was actually trying to make. Thanks for you good natured understanding though. I think I captured the essence of this stratagem in the new version above.

And thanks for your genuine attempt in an honest answer. Perhaps The Art of Controversy where I reference those 38 stratagems is bet labeled "trolls handbook"; the point is, if you want to examine strategies to use in debates, or trolling in general, I think examination of these 38 items is quite interesting.

For the sake of continued examination of the 38 stratagems, perhaps sticking more strictly to the original phrase "Don't argue with a fool. ..." is more productive.

I actually feel bad that you mistook my motive here. I owe you one.

Aragorn
7th July 2015, 18:11
Never argue with a fool. The topic will not be what is seems to be, nor means what it ought to.

That I will agree with. ;)

Dreamtimer
14th July 2015, 14:25
Sheepophobia, :hilarious::holysheep:

Chester
19th July 2015, 19:19
I only listened to the first 20 minutes Sam and it made me realise how much i judge other people.I am going to make an increased effort not to judge people to quickly and i will try and listen to more when i am not running around after these kids lol

The following is reflections on this Adampants video named – Knowledge

Note: my comments are all and only my opinions… even when the way I state them appears to be in the form of fact… in those cases, understand these are all and only my opinions today, they are based on my own experiences and reflections and may change completely tomorrow.

I found the comment about being “awake” a bit funny (in a mirror sort of way)…

“chasing that white rabbit everywhere it goes” or worse, blindly following something (a guru or a group or the latest movement) that presents itself as a knower instead of doing your own investigation and then calling yourself awake (mirror again).

He is suggesting we notice what arises in our awareness and consider its basic principles and then see how that connects to our inner world… our inner dialogue. By doing this we might experience profound meaning that touches us at a deeper level. This in turn may solidify our sense of consecutiveness to all which diminishes the sense of separateness which is used by others to control us.

Example: Did you “learn” what a symbol means by reading a book or your guru told you “… or did you sit there by a lake, think about life as a whole and what is happening and the symbol came up (arose in your awareness) and you are like, “Oh my God.”

This is an example of creating synchronicity in one’s life.

“See, the ‘oh my gosh’ is when you extract meaning.”

Meaning, (for me) is an intrinsic component to the word “life.” Of course… I admittedly have my own definition. No one else need share my definition. But since this is a forum where we are given a canvas upon which we can paint our own words then this writer will share these –

Life – an unbroken continuum packed with meaningful experiences.
on the other hand
Existence – to be, regardless of the presence of meaning.

Is existing without meaning fulfilling for you?

It isn’t for me. And despite the attempts by those who wish to control us to strip us of the opportunities to experience meaning, some of us have discovered how to live meaningfully.

This video seems to point this out

Adampants draws a distinction between information and knowledge (another point I felt I needed to hear)

He points to another problem I often find myself engaging in – the objectification of Spirit. One way I do that is when I use the word “Source” as if it is something separate from me. “Why are you looking for a source?”

He points out how the controllers know that if they bombard us with fearful information, their work in controlling us is made easier. Yes, many already know this. But it is funny how so many that already know this still throw up on their blogs or forums or in comment sections of websites or on their Facebook page the latest news about what is certain to make most more fearful. I have done this thus again… I am looking at a mirror.

He points out the importance of self-enablement for without this step being accomplished first… all the information in the world will simply pull one further and further down the path towards chaos and result in mass anarchy.

He shares that he had the same experience and the same result I had. He realized there is no such thing as privacy. “There is no private communication.”
“Even your thoughts if you are targeted are not private. And I will tell you something… that is a very liberating thing actually.”
This was my precise conclusion and self-liberation was exactly the result I experienced as now I no longer lie to myself. That realization forced me to stop lying to myself. That realization caused the outer me (the me I express) to match with the inner me (who I actually am). It made me authentic. Again… this is all and only my own experience and result.

Everything Adampants shares from about the 1:17 mark until 1:28 is exactly my own experience and thoughts.

He makes a brilliant point that for some of us who hate the sheep… the very thing that makes others sheep are the very same things that woke some of us up. So then how fair is it to hate the sheep? Pretty good point IMO.

He points out (at about 1:31) exactly what I experienced and concluded regarding e-mails I get… how uncanny is it that so many e-mails I get are related to the thoughts I have been having? Especially when these thoughts are incredibly detailed and so is the e-mail… in the exact same way. Hummm… is it possible that thought reading technology might be used by the advertising agencies? Aren’t the owners the same? 2 + 2 = … what? 4???

The he threw out this wisdom…

“True giving is the same as receiving.” Think about that one for a bit… consider listening to this video from 1:31 on for a few minutes.
“You cannot give a true gift without simultaneously receiving.”
“You cannot receive a true gift without simultaneously giving.”
My experience has told me this is true for me… and maybe it might be true for you.

“If I am a giver… who am I giving to? Everything.”

Stay on the narrow path… “your path.” The broad path is others’ path.