A serious question

[Chester]

Why would any advanced benevolent non-Earthly race of beings wish to assist humans of Earth when over and over and over we see that from within the Earth human race emerges those who exploit the rest of humanity mercilessly, sociopathically demonstrating constant and consistent pathological lying where then measures are taken to rape the vulnerable while simultaneously going to extreme, relentless measures to protect their plundering using massive self-defensive campaigns that feature every Madison Avenue trick in the book?

Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?

Think about it.

If I were an advanced benevolent non-Earthly race, I would step back and trust in Mother Nature to be Herself... that way, if Earth humans grow past this stage of development prior to self-extinction (the other natural possibility) then I might embrace them and begin to share spiritual based technologies knowing these have a lessor chance of being abused.

Ohhhh... and a request to anyone who might wish to post in this thread. Note there are many readers who are not members. I ask we all strive to ensure this thread remain public.

[lcam88]

Hey, welcome back.

I have an equally good question and then the answer to your question.

Why can't humans on earth help themselves?

Any non-earthly being obviously would not help, simply because they see it in our capabilities to actually help ourselves.

And if we cannot, maybe our idealistic virtue of helping the bird with the broken wing get better is equally offset by those of us with ideals that a shotgun is a good way to handle birds without flight difficulties.

Off topic, if I may, Is this actually a rhetorical question?

[Rocket's Mom]

Really awesome question, Sam! I think that the "humans" that choose to control/manipulate/terrorize/enslave etc. are not "human" at all. Not really. My limited observation (48 years, two universities, three states, five cities, 17 years of teaching under 8 years old) of human nature is that people are basically good at heart; at least they are born that way. Granted, I have never left the country, and I don't have any experience with hard criminals.

I think an advanced, benevolent off-planet race would see the good in us and surely want to send aid to the 'slaves'. I don't think 'humans' have a parasitical disease, I think it is the off-planet folks who were here aeons ago were the parasites.

My 2cents :)

[Chester]

Hey, welcome back.

I have an equally good question and then the answer to your question.

Why can't humans on earth help themselves?

Any non-earthly being obviously would not help, simply because they see it in our capabilities to actually help ourselves.

And if we cannot, maybe our idealistic virtue of helping the bird with the broken wing get better is equally offset by those of us with ideals that a shotgun is a good way to handle birds without flight difficulties.

Off topic, if I may, Is this actually a rhetorical question?

Hi lcam88, Thanks for the welcome back... it was refreshing to be in Colombia the last week and even more refreshing to return to find a much cleaner environment here at home.

Equally great point you make. When we combine the two, this points out a massive difference between what the wise would think of and/or agree with on their own (no need for any "channeled" bs, divinely inspired written works nor special self-appointed saviors pretending to just be messengers) versus what the spiritually bankrupt need to hear from the sellers of false hope.

Yet I must point out to you the fact that these sellers of false hope are not emerging from off-planet... they are humans just like you and I. And they are clearly parasitical and cashing in on it financially and energetically.

If we look at these two "groups" - I make odds high that the healthy future of Earth depends greatly on the vulnerable waking up to the reality that they have been sucked into group 2 and become tired of never ever experiencing a true change on Earth to come forth. They will do this when they access truth from within and become a member of group 1.

[Jengelen]

Hi again Sam. I am finding we think somewhat alike. I do think that the record speaks for itself regarding UFOs and I believe most of us know that there is someone, probably very terrestrial, maybe even another rarer or fewer in number but higher in intelligence hominid of some sort. Whatever it is someone has been flying around in star craft, stars, orbs, whatver. We know the stories.

Russian, Japanese, USA and more pilots and especially the Russians talk of dog fights with these things and not just a few. The most famous Cosmonaut Marina I think Popov was her last name!? Well she spoke publicly about watching her commander get shot out of the sky by one of these so no I go with you on the suddenly peaceful as BS all the way.

If there is aliens out there and we ever meet them, based on our past history meeting just other races for the first time, its going to lead to conflict and animosity. Its what we do. Sadly!

[bsbray]

My limited observation (48 years, two universities, three states, five cities, 17 years of teaching under 8 years old) of human nature is that people are basically good at heart; at least they are born that way. Granted, I have never left the country, and I don't have any experience with hard criminals.

I agree with that completely. The only people who are really demented (aside from those I'll mention below) seem to literally have some kind of illness, some kind of psychopathy.

Like you also point out, though, there is some kind of influence that is probably not human. In fact it can even be traced back historically, at least to the ancient Middle East. Ancient texts from Egypt, Babylon, and even the Bible confirm that something which was not quite human had sired offspring that became the rulers of these ancient places, once the "gods" themselves had to leave. And the fact that they had to leave also indicates to me a long-standing feud between different unseen factions, and is what makes me believe that we have always been protected in some way from total destruction or enslavement, at least during this last historical epoch of about 12,000 years.

[shannon333]

I absolutely agree with you on this! It was the off-planet guys who caused the Fall from grace, wasn't it?

[lcam88]

Hi lcam88, Thanks for the welcome back... it was refreshing to be in Colombia the last week and even more refreshing to return to find a much cleaner environment here at home.

Equally great point you make. When we combine the two, this points out a massive difference between what the wise would think of and/or agree with on their own (no need for any "channeled" bs, divinely inspired written works nor special self-appointed saviors pretending to just be messengers) versus what the spiritually bankrupt need to hear from the sellers of false hope.

Yet I must point out to you the fact that these sellers of false hope are not emerging from off-planet... they are humans just like you and I. And they are clearly parasitical and cashing in on it financially and energetically.

If we look at these two "groups" - I make odds high that the healthy future of Earth depends greatly on the vulnerable waking up to the reality that they have been sucked into group 2 and become tired of never ever experiencing a true change on Earth to come forth. They will do this when they access truth from within and become a member of group 1.

Now now Sam. I know what you are saying between those lines. <hint hint :) />

I don't think growth necessarily means not eating the candy, even when you know it is poison. Some people need more hand-holding than others; I like going to the movies for a good flick. (even though it's been more than a year since I've felt compelled). Why should anyone's story-telling be less valuable a creation than anyone else's; I like James Cameron more than Spielberg not because he tells a story that is so much better, but because he is more daring in what he offers the audience to believe, whereas Spielberg is known for building a stronger human emotional bond in his films and that sometimes that gets in the way of the plot progressing.

But if you imagine a whole spectrum that continues from the two points those two storytellers set, everyone falls somewhere with their believability and human emotion depth (or shallowness). Starship Troopers for example, I couldn't stand watching even 5 minutes of it for as shallow as I found it to be, and yet some people describe it as brilliant in context of the US government in a satirical or parodical way.

[Chester]

But if you imagine a whole spectrum that continues from the two points those two storytellers set, everyone falls somewhere with their believability and human emotion depth (or shallowness).

Now I am confused... I sense you have misunderstood.

Group 1 is not a "story teller" - Group 1 consists of those who obtain their truths as sovereigns - bringing their truths forth from within.

Group 2 is followers of story tellers.... those who cannot pull forth any truth from within so they need saviors. And the point I made is that it is from the Earth human group that many emerge who take advantage of group 2... these are the false hope sellers.

It is my opinion that any wise and benevolent non-Earthly advanced race of beings would never risk unleashing this form of psychopathy into the rest of the universe by "assisting" in any fashion. Its my opinion that they would rely on the "wisdom of the universe as comes forth through natural processes" to resolve the issue.

I don't know if I am right or wrong. I do know this is what I think and I do know that this is what I imagine wise and benevolent "others" would also conclude.

[JByas]

Homo sapiens as a species has been tampered with SO much over the millenniums its hard to know what the ideal traits are...

We are resisting numerous primal urges to be outright barbarians

various influences internal and external.

Its remarkable it hasn't turn into an all out war on this planet as of yet, I'm quite surprised!

When I looked at the new Jurassic World movie and saw the Indominus Rex... I immediately thought of this "grand experiment" and was like ... hmmmmm
I wonder what the original traits and abilities were humans meant to have, whats been added... whats been taken away?

We REALLY don't know HOW off design we are?

[AscensionQuest]

Why would any advanced benevolent non-Earthly race of beings wish to assist humans of Earth when over and over and over we see that from within the Earth human race emerges those who exploit the rest of humanity mercilessly, sociopathically demonstrating constant and consistent pathological lying where then measures are taken to rape the vulnerable while simultaneously going to extreme, relentless measures to protect their plundering using massive self-defensive campaigns that feature every Madison Avenue trick in the book?

Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?

Think about it.

If I were an advanced benevolent non-Earthly race, I would step back and trust in Mother Nature to be Herself... that way, if Earth humans grow past this stage of development prior to self-extinction (the other natural possibility) then I might embrace them and begin to share spiritual based technologies knowing these have a lessor chance of being abused.

Ohhhh... and a request to anyone who might wish to post in this thread. Note there are many readers who are not members. I ask we all strive to ensure this thread remain public.

Answer: They want to help us because they star seeded us here.

However, the Annunaki created Adam & Eve to mine for Gold. It's in the Book of Enki.

Annunaki seeded 7 Adams & 7 Eves along the 30th parallel: Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and India.

The remaining 80% of us on Earth were star seeded here mainly from the M45 Pleiades Star Cluster.

Our ET brothers and sisters are excited to see the ascension of Earth to 4D.

- Corey + Tolec + Tanaath -

[JByas]

We were only meant to be here once...

So if indeed we've been recycled 325 lifetimes, yea that's the universal crime of all crimes!

[Chester]

I absolutely agree with you on this! It was the off-planet guys who caused the Fall from grace, wasn't it?

Who told you that? Is this what you bring forth from within? Or... is this something you have been told that you decided to agree with?

I cannot know which is true... but what I can do is decide for myself what I hope is true and that incorporate that view into my foundational world view. By doing this... the universe responds with all sorts of experiences which allow me to conclude whether I am wrong or right.

What I found by thinking "It was the off-planet guys who caused the Fall from grace" is that I avoid my own personal responsibility in how I find myself in this fallen state. This type of thinking sets me up for what has been seen to repeat over and over and over in history... the emergence of the exploiters of the savior paradigm. And they cash in while the rest of us suffer. and notice that nothing ever changes... unless we see it is getting tightened down more and more every day.

Evil outsiders screwed me and my loved ones. This means you, as a creation of a benevolent source, can still wind up as some victim of some horrific external force. Does a creator that throws you into this dynamic sound attractive? If so, then you are ripe for the victim/savior paradigm where victims are perpetual energetic food sources for parasites.

I do not hold this view of Source. My creator views all creations as children of the creator who are always and only ever loved and appreciated. Yet, the free will given to creations allows them to create any dynamic they wish to experience. Yet also... they are never truly in danger as they are all provided the opportunity for eternal life. It is the choice of each child to throw it away. It is the choice of each child to allow themselves to be influenced by those who do not have their best interests in mind.

This view is why I live an incredible, wonderful... filled with meaningful moments of magic with the Reality and All beings that come forth in the Reality. I am here at this place and time of my soul journey via one reason above all.

I accepted full and total Personal Responsibility for every single experience at all levels of my being. This is the key to sovereignty. Waiting for outsiders to save you from other outsiders is one of Machiavelli's greatest scams.

[Rebel&Rocket]

I completely get where you're going with this Sam. My question would be...Is it really that simple? From a spiritual perspective, we know we are not particularly advanced. Maybe that's not quite fair - we (most of us here at least) feel strongly that most of the population is "asleep" - by being given a sedative, so to speak. What if in the Galactic community, it is more widely accepted by many races that we are all one, all from the same Source. What if in believing that, there is an understanding that we have our own paths to walk, and a lot of interference is unethical.

On this planet, we know that about 1% are clinically psychopathic (although honestly, I wonder if that isn't a bit higher really). Say the same is true of the entire Galactic community. So, say here we are on this planet with a bunch of native psychopaths, and potentially some of those psychopaths from elsewhere. I think about my kids....I have a policy of staying out of their conflicts, however standing by closely to watch and be there in case things escalate to a point where I need to step in for the sake of safety. I feel strongly that learning to resolve their own conflicts is essential for them to develop into well-balanced, capable adults.

If we self-destruct because we're a bunch of oblivious, narcissistic animals and destroy this planet, it's not just going to effect this planet. Like throwing a rock in a pond, the effect will ripple through the solar system, maybe beyond?

That being said...we, as a race, have a big problem with needing a savior. I can only imagine how some would be constantly shaking their heads at us. What do we do when there's a destructive element in our lives? We alienate it. We get rid of it, right? But something within me tells me the stakes are too high to just let us blow the place up. Save us? I don't think that's anyone's responsibility but our own. We do have the capability. We, collectively, are far more lazy than powerless.

[Divine Feminine]

Why would any advanced benevolent non-Earthly race of beings wish to assist humans of Earth when over and over and over we see that from within the Earth human race emerges those who exploit the rest of humanity mercilessly, sociopathically demonstrating constant and consistent pathological lying where then measures are taken to rape the vulnerable while simultaneously going to extreme, relentless measures to protect their plundering using massive self-defensive campaigns that feature every Madison Avenue trick in the book?

Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?

Think about it.

If I were an advanced benevolent non-Earthly race, I would step back and trust in Mother Nature to be Herself... that way, if Earth humans grow past this stage of development prior to self-extinction (the other natural possibility) then I might embrace them and begin to share spiritual based technologies knowing these have a lessor chance of being abused.

Ohhhh... and a request to anyone who might wish to post in this thread. Note there are many readers who are not members. I ask we all strive to ensure this thread remain public.

I understand what you're saying Sam and agree. After doing much research in the reincarnation field I perceive Earth as nothing more than a school of learning. I have to believe an advance race of beings understands this. To interfere at great lengths is messing with the soul evolution process. Though I don't enjoy watching the demise of others, I also realize it's necessary for one's soul growth,no matter what the atrocity may be....this is coming from someone who's had her head cut off in a past life, so I don't say this lightly. It's quite obvious to me that much of what's going on is by design, so regardless of what some may think, they're not victims, but merely participants in a game of soul evolution. Part of that 'game' is standing on our own two feet and learning the lessons needed to be learned so you can move on to other experiences. Maybe this includes 'following' someone and the requirement to be burned so one learns from the error of their judgment. There would be no point to incarnating on this planet if growth wasn't involved. You are immortal. If alien beings wanted to destroy us they would have done it long ago. I don't worry so much about those who get caught up in 'following' someone or trying to save them. It's not because I don't care, it's because I realize some souls need to have the experience so they know what it feels like. If I run around trying to save everyone am I robbing them of this growth? Of course when put in certain situations I will respond accordingly to help another, but for those I can't reach or help I know they will be ok as most likely I've gone through the same process in another life which is why the lesson is no longer needed.

The thought has occurred to me that maybe Earth will never change and everything is as it should be for the benefit of souls to come and learn what they need to learn. Maybe this is the only place available where this opportunity is possible? Anybody else ever wonder that?

And though I may have an opinion on others actions, it does not mean I'm judging them as I realize we all have to learn in our own way and for some it might take them longer to learn before they can move on to the next task in their soul growth. So I would say, understand that some of these experiences serve as a purpose to others who still have the need to learn and grow and I believe this is all part of the 'the great experiment' we find ourselves dealing with on a daily basis.

[blufire]

These types of more recent machinations and memes are very interesting to me.

I have been on the alternative media/new age forums for about 15+ years now and I have watched these carefully crafted ‘memes’ and themes come and go.

The idea of benevolent/malevolent non-Earthly races and Beings is the most recent, as well as, humans/mankind being horrible, evil, lowly and completely unworthy of life itself. Also (one the most damaging memes) that humans have been tampered with and altered and enslaved and souls being wiped and devoured.

So Sam I would like to add a serious question to your serious question . . . . . . why would you believe that a non-Earthly race or Being would think or act like a human? Why do you impose earth human ideas, emotions and actions, etc on an off-world sentient Being? Beings of whom we know absolutely nothing about,only supposition.

We can no more define or understand the psyche of how each of us (human races) work let alone the other sentient Beings on this planet (all the different species of animals etc)
. . . . . . so why is it we have seem to have adopted fully this new meme of benevolent/malevolent alien Races and Beings would think or act as a Human?

I would like to add that these memes/themes/machinations have been put forth by the alternative media/new age groups/gurus/forums and (I feel) have done the most in destroying our ability to move forward with wisdom, kindness, faith, trust, grace, confidence and worthiness . . . . . . .

[Dreamtimer]

Oh Sam...

It takes a couple rotten apples to spoil the barrel. It takes a couple troublesome kids in a classroom to cause the teacher to have to make stricter rules.

Rocket's mom is right. Most people are good. Any smart ET race can see that. Thus they would leave us alone because of the good people, not the bad.

If they can help the good people behind the scenes, they probably would. I would.

If you're saying that the whole barrel of apples is already rotten, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

The biggest problem the sheeple have is ignorance. Yes, they bear some responsibility for that. Not the whole of it.

What matters is action. There is some action going on that you don't like and see as bad, even criminal. And you're fighting that. Good.

It's not OK to throw all of humanity under the bus and say we're just "parasitic" and "dangerous".

If all I focused on was the history of discrimination and misogyny practiced by men I'd hate them, wouldn't I? There's millenia of evidence of their atrocities towards women. Does that mean they're all bad and untrustworthy?

No. It doesn't.

Please be careful Sam.

[AscensionQuest]

I understand what you're saying Sam and agree. After doing much research in the reincarnation field I perceive Earth as nothing more than a school of learning. I have to believe an advance race of beings understands this. To interfere at great lengths is messing with the soul evolution process. Though I don't enjoy watching the demise of others, I also realize it's necessary for one's soul growth,no matter what the atrocity may be....this is coming from someone who's had her head cut off in a past life, so I don't say this lightly. It's quite obvious to me that much of what's going on is by design, so regardless of what some may think, they're not victims, but merely participants in a game of soul evolution. Part of that 'game' is standing on our own two feet and learning the lessons needed to be learned so you can move on to other experiences. Maybe this includes 'following' someone and the requirement to be burned so one learns from the error of their judgment. There would be no point to incarnating on this planet if growth wasn't involved. You are immortal. If alien beings wanted to destroy us they would have done it long ago. I don't worry so much about those who get caught up in 'following' someone or trying to save them. It's not because I don't care, it's because I realize some souls need to have the experience so they know what it feels like. If I run around trying to save everyone am I robbing them of this growth? Of course when put in certain situations I will respond accordingly to help another, but for those I can't reach or help I know they will be ok as most likely I've gone through the same process in another life which is why the lesson is no longer needed.

The thought has occurred to me that maybe Earth will never change and everything is as it should be for the benefit of souls to come and learn what they need to learn. Maybe this is the only place available where this opportunity is possible? Anybody else ever wonder that?

And though I may have an opinion on others actions, it does not mean I'm judging them as I realize we all have to learn in our own way and for some it might take them longer to learn before they can move on to the next task in their soul growth. So I would say, understand that some of these experiences serve as a purpose to others who still have the need to learn and grow and I believe this is all part of the 'the great experiment' we find ourselves dealing with on a daily basis.

Oh, the reincarnation process ...

That has to do with the Lords of Karma.

We have ALL been reincarnated on Earth at least 22 times.

[sarahdita85]

Yeah its all too easy to see the bad in people, i watched a documentary about how alot of circus animals and slaughter animals are treated, i broke down crying and if i had of had a big red button that would of wiped us all out, in that moment, i would of pushed it. But then i watched some other things, people making wheelchairs for dogs etc and i felt differently, the fact is that fear etc is pushed down or throats and we lose sight of the good in the world, but its there we just have to look :) sorry if that went a little off topic.. :group hug:

[Dreamtimer]

I don't think you went off topic sarahdita85, my understanding is that we're naturally wired to focus on what's fearful as part of our survival instincts. Good thing a lot of us don't have that big red button. I like to remind myself of what Gandalf told Frodo. You don't have the power to give life, don't be so quick to take it away.

That's part of why it should be up to women to decide when we go to war. We are the ones who bring in new life to the world. We often die for it. The purpose of baring the breast is to prove womanhood. (That tradition arose before implants and sex changes...)

[Chester]

And though I may have an opinion on others actions, it does not mean I'm judging them as I realize we all have to learn in our own way and for some it might take them longer to learn before they can move on to the next task in their soul growth. So I would say, understand that some of these experiences serve as a purpose to others who still have the need to learn and grow and I believe this is all part of the 'the great experiment' we find ourselves dealing with on a daily basis.

Brilliant - there is a vast difference between judging and assessing. The transcendence of judgment can be achieved by reaching a state of understanding (which I see as compassion). It does not then mean anyone sits back and accepts unacceptable behavior. For me, the sellers of false hope clearly harm the vulnerable. Some of these vulnerable include my own children. I engaged in an act with my children's mother that resulted in the creation of the container into which my children incarnated. I am forever responsible to my children. I have every imaginable reason to point out BS (backed by evidence) when it comes to protecting my children. I happen to extend my sense of community beyond my own children... thus I feel responsible as well with regards to those beyond just my children.

I assess.

I assess and express these assessments.

I provide all sorts of verifiable information which I feel supports my assessment.

Only those who engage in the folly of judgment ever have to forgive. Those who feel others like me who are simply assessing and backing these assessments up with massive evidence are "judging" usually reveal this is a dynamic they still engage in themselves. Just because someone is direct, accurate and relentless does not mean they are judging.

Those who take responsibility for their assessments and are willing to change their mind based on further information never find themselves judging in the first place. those who embrace anyone anytime who comes to them in the spirit and desire to change... to improve need no forgiveness but deserve love and any help anyone else can provide. The key is their willingness to free themselves of their own self-deceptions. By opening up and then working out things with others can they remove their layers of self created lies and then... discover true freedom and become truly sovereign and by this fulfill the potential of their creation.

[sarahdita85]

You reminded me of a quote i seen somewhere, 'if women where in charge there would be no war, just a bunch of countries not speaking to each other' lol but yes i agree with you :)

[Chester]

Oh Sam...

If you're saying that the whole barrel of apples is already rotten, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.

It's not OK to throw all of humanity under the bus and say we're just "parasitic" and "dangerous".



Clearly my words have been greatly misunderstood. Please point out what words I stated where you drew these conclusions?

[blufire]

Clearly my words have been greatly misunderstood. Please point out what words I stated where you drew these conclusions?


From your OP:


Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?

[Dreamtimer]

"Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?"

The bold is mine, the words are yours, Sam. My word 'dangerous' was an interpretation, I suppose. How is it that I have 'greatly misunderstood'?

[Chester]

Answer: They want to help us because they star seeded us here.

However, the Annunaki created Adam & Eve to mine for Gold. It's in the Book of Enki.

Annunaki seeded 7 Adams & 7 Eves along the 30th parallel: Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and India.

The remaining 80% of us on Earth were star seeded here mainly from the M45 Pleiades Star Cluster.

Our ET brothers and sisters are excited to see the ascension of Earth to 4D.

- Corey + Tolec + Tanaath -

Where did you get this information that you state here as fact as opposed to being just your opinion? If you state this is just your opinion, I might state I disagree. If you state things like this such that they are fact, I want to know how you prove this. Because it was written in some book does not make it fact. Because it was stated by individuals does not make it fact.

You prove my point as to group 2 - those who obtain all their beliefs from outside sources. This is exactly what the very Illuminati you want to believe these sources will save you from want you to believe!

[Rebel&Rocket]

The thought has occurred to me that maybe Earth will never change and everything is as it should be for the benefit of souls to come and learn what they need to learn. Maybe this is the only place available where this opportunity is possible? Anybody else ever wonder that?

Brilliant.

[lcam88]

Now I am confused... I sense you have misunderstood.

Group 1 is not a "story teller" - Group 1 consists of those who obtain their truths as sovereigns - bringing their truths forth from within.


Or those who claim to know the truth, priests and the like.



Group 2 is followers of story tellers.... those who cannot pull forth any truth from within so they need saviors. And the point I made is that it is from the Earth human group that many emerge who take advantage of group 2... these are the false hope sellers.


There are many different ways to cut this pie, I suppose. Maybe this group is the John Woo in my spectrum.



It is my opinion that any wise and benevolent non-Earthly advanced race of beings would never risk unleashing this form of psychopathy into the rest of the universe by "assisting" in any fashion. Its my opinion that they would rely on the "wisdom of the universe as comes forth through natural processes" to resolve the issue.

I don't know if I am right or wrong. I do know this is what I think and I do know that this is what I imagine wise and benevolent "others" would also conclude.

Like a natural law that determines who is worthy of walking amongst the stars? "If you can't make it off you planet without destroying yourself, that you don't deserve it"

That is a good reason to expect all "star walking" ET's to be rather benevolent and non-aggressive? That sounds too idealistic for me, but... hmmm I'm using human references that I don't know to be the-actual-truth. It may just be true.

[JByas]

This view is why I live an incredible, wonderful... filled with meaningful moments of magic with the Reality and All beings that come forth in the Reality. I am here at this place and time of my soul journey via one reason above all.

I accepted full and total Personal Responsibility for every single experience at all levels of my being. This is the key to sovereignty.


Indeed, and I believe THAT's the true and beautiful side of what being HUMAN is!

I with you a million percent!

[Chester]

I completely get where you're going with this Sam. My question would be...Is it really that simple? From a spiritual perspective, we know we are not particularly advanced. Maybe that's not quite fair - we (most of us here at least) feel strongly that most of the population is "asleep" - by being given a sedative, so to speak. What if in the Galactic community, it is more widely accepted by many races that we are all one, all from the same Source. What if in believing that, there is an understanding that we have our own paths to walk, and a lot of interference is unethical.

On this planet, we know that about 1% are clinically psychopathic (although honestly, I wonder if that isn't a bit higher really). Say the same is true of the entire Galactic community. So, say here we are on this planet with a bunch of native psychopaths, and potentially some of those psychopaths from elsewhere. I think about my kids....I have a policy of staying out of their conflicts, however standing by closely to watch and be there in case things escalate to a point where I need to step in for the sake of safety. I feel strongly that learning to resolve their own conflicts is essential for them to develop into well-balanced, capable adults.

If we self-destruct because we're a bunch of oblivious, narcissistic animals and destroy this planet, it's not just going to effect this planet. Like throwing a rock in a pond, the effect will ripple through the solar system, maybe beyond?

That being said...we, as a race, have a big problem with needing a savior. I can only imagine how some would be constantly shaking their heads at us. What do we do when there's a destructive element in our lives? We alienate it. We get rid of it, right? But something within me tells me the stakes are too high to just let us blow the place up. Save us? I don't think that's anyone's responsibility but our own. We do have the capability. We, collectively, are far more lazy than powerless.

This post is pretty much exactly my own opinion stated in different words. I have to let my own kids fall. I see what happens when parents continue to rescue their kids. My only sibling (my sister) has a daughter. She chose to continue to save her daughter. The daughter has been to Texas State Prison three times now. Is a constant thief and a constant drug/addict alcoholic. She is now about 35 years old and just this last year my sister stopped enabling. But the odds her daughter makes the turn around now are very very low (in this lifetime).

Now look at species. We know that on Earth today thousands of species yearly. Yes, some of those go extinct due to the influence of the human being, but all sorts of other factors play a role as well.

It is my opinion that wise, benevolent non-Earthly beings would allow a natural process to occur with regards to whether the current Earthly version of the human race as a whole survives itself (gets past this stage where it may destroy itself).

That's really all I was saying.

What then would happen to you as an individual? Again... all and only my opinion is that we might each have the opportunity to incarnate again albeit in a different experiential vehicle... maybe another version of human or maybe something else.

[blufire]

Hi lcam88, Thanks for the welcome back... it was refreshing to be in Colombia the last week and even more refreshing to return to find a much cleaner environment here at home.

Equally great point you make. When we combine the two, this points out a massive difference between what the wise would think of and/or agree with on their own (no need for any "channeled" bs, divinely inspired written works nor special self-appointed saviors pretending to just be messengers) versus what the spiritually bankrupt need to hear from the sellers of false hope.

Yet I must point out to you the fact that these sellers of false hope are not emerging from off-planet... they are humans just like you and I. And they are clearly parasitical and cashing in on it financially and energetically.

If we look at these two "groups" - I make odds high that the healthy future of Earth depends greatly on the vulnerable waking up to the reality that they have been sucked into group 2 and become tired of never ever experiencing a true change on Earth to come forth. They will do this when they access truth from within and become a member of group 1




You prove my point as to group 2 - those who obtain all their beliefs from outside sources. This is exactly what the very Illuminati you want to believe these sources will save you from want you to believe


Sam . . . I have watched you begin to remove layers that have been carefully put in place for many years. But (IMO) you have a ways to go (as do I) with this part of your statement


This is exactly what the very Illuminati you want to believe these sources will save you from want you to believe!


The concept of the evil/reptilian Illuminati was one of the most foundational ‘cornerstones’ that was put in place . . . . and take a stab at who concocted this foundation . . . . .


.....................

[AscensionQuest]

Where did you get this information that you state here as fact as opposed to being just your opinion? If you state this is just your opinion, I might state I disagree. If you state things like this such that they are fact, I want to know how you prove this. Because it was written in some book does not make it fact. Because it was stated by individuals does not make it fact.

You prove my point as to group 2 - those who obtain all their beliefs from outside sources. This is exactly what the very Illuminati you want to believe these sources will save you from want you to believe!

Oh, i read the Book of Enki. It all makes sense. It came out in 2004. Sitchin

The part about Pleiadian Star Cluster came from Tanaath. She has been around for awhile.

-----------
The Cabal & illuminati created the ICC and Dark Fleet according to Corey. That has Solar Warden uneasy.

I think the illuminati enjoy keeping us all clueless.

We need knowledge and truth.

[JByas]

There is a reason the so-called "parents" are hiding and keeping a low profile.... They are living on borrowed time literally they will be purged!

There are so many narratives in the air, we really dont know which is the truth or if each one is a piece to a grand puzzle.

Scenario one ends with "there will be blood"
Scenario two ends with "there will be blood"
Scenario three ends with "there will be fire & blood"

In the interest of grace "SOMEBODY" needs to step in and remove the cancer cause we didnt start the fire!
and MAYBE we as a race did choose to experience this "soul growth" but we didnt anticipate it would last over and over for 26,000 years Um "there will be fire & blood"
If and I say IF a complete disclosure of crimes and root causes is made known... yea you might wanna ship off the culprits cause they will be hunted down.



I'm just gonna be the brightest light I can be for my family and friend and anyone I encounter, and that's my souls desire.

Now, back to my infinite peace :popc:

[blufire]

Oh, i read the Book of Enki. It all makes sense. It came out in 2004. Sitchin

The part about Pleiadian Star Cluster came from Tanaath. She has been around for awhile.

-----------
The Cabal & illuminati created the ICC and Dark Fleet according to Corey. That has Solar Warden uneasy.

I think the illuminati enjoy keeping us all clueless.

We need knowledge and truth.


And who created the 'concept' of the Cabal and Illuminati? It is so fully ingrained at this time that we no longer even question . . . . .

.........

[Chester]

These types of more recent machinations and memes are very interesting to me.

I have been on the alternative media/new age forums for about 15+ years now and I have watched these carefully crafted ‘memes’ and themes come and go.

The idea of benevolent/malevolent non-Earthly races and Beings is the most recent, as well as, humans/mankind being horrible, evil, lowly and completely unworthy of life itself. Also (one the most damaging memes) that humans have been tampered with and altered and enslaved and souls being wiped and devoured.

So Sam I would like to add a serious question to your serious question . . . . . . why would you believe that a non-Earthly race or Being would think or act like a human? Why do you impose earth human ideas, emotions and actions, etc on an off-world sentient Being? Beings of whom we know absolutely nothing about,only supposition.

We can no more define or understand the psyche of how each of us (human races) work let alone the other sentient Beings on this planet (all the different species of animals etc)
. . . . . . so why is it we have seem to have adopted fully this new meme of benevolent/malevolent alien Races and Beings would think or act as a Human?

I would like to add that these memes/themes/machinations have been put forth by the alternative media/new age groups/gurus/forums and (I feel) have done the most in destroying our ability to move forward with wisdom, kindness, faith, trust, grace, confidence and worthiness . . . . . . .

Hi, I believe that if there be other sentient Beings in the first place (I make odds high there are) that they would act like... Beings! A human is a Being. Where did you get the idea I think they should (or would) act like a specific expression of human? Note the spectrum of human expression alone is massive.

The use of logic isn't restricted to human beings nor is it restricted from being used by other beings or not. It is clear why I used the term benevolent as we know full well that there are no limits in behaviors when it comes to malevolents.

I am baffled that you somehow conclude that I make this implication.

Along these lines, I know dogs that express vastly different behaviors that also happen to be similar to a vast amount of behaviors of humans. Yet also there are behaviors shared by dogs that you rarely find (if ever) in a human and visa versa.

Please quote me where you have determined I implied what you suggest I implied.

[blufire]

Hi, I believe that if there be other sentient Beings in the first place (I make odds high there are) that they would act like... Beings! A human is a Being. Where did you get the idea I think they should (or would) act like a specific expression of human? Note the spectrum of human expression alone is massive.

The use of logic isn't restricted to human beings nor is it restricted from being used by other beings or not. It is clear why I used the term benevolent as we know full well that there are no limits in behaviors when it comes to malevolents.

I am baffled that you somehow conclude that I make this implication.

Along these lines, I know dogs that express vastly different behaviors that also happen to be similar to a vast amount of behaviors of humans. Yet also there are behaviors shared by dogs that you rarely find (if ever) in a human and visa versa.

Please quote me where you have determined I implied what you suggest I implied.


Your entire OP.

.........

[Chester]

Or those who claim to know the truth, priests and the like.



There are many different ways to cut this pie, I suppose. Maybe this group is the John Woo in my spectrum.



Like a natural law that determines who is worthy of walking amongst the stars? "If you can't make it off you planet without destroying yourself, that you don't deserve it"

That is a good reason to expect all "star walking" ET's to be rather benevolent and non-aggressive? That sounds too idealistic for me, but... hmmm I'm using human references that I don't know to be the-actual-truth. It may just be true.

Nope - Priest and the like are the feeders of group 2. Again there's a serious misinterpretation.

Also - never said natural law... stated natural processes.

I am beginning to wonder why folks in this thread have decided to misinterpret and twist up my words? Interesting.

[lcam88]

Homo sapiens as a species has been tampered with SO much over the millenniums its hard to know what the ideal traits are...

We are resisting numerous primal urges to be outright barbarians

I don't know if that is meant to be offensive to all of us, or you are somehow relating to some part of yourself that I am unaware of in me. Unless I am completely out of water on this topic and you mean a "Conan Romantic" sort of barbarian.

I am glad to know that you are open to an idea of the origin of humanity that is not the either based on the idea of Creation or that of Evolution (with its grandeous presumption of "perfectly" random genetic mutation).



various influences internal and external.


That is like a metaphor of Christianity. No offense. A message from Moses, given to him by a burning bush, that we should accept even if it means putting aside our own values and morals? That fits.



Its remarkable it hasn't turn into an all out war on this planet as of yet, I'm quite surprised!

Hmmm, can you think of a single war that wasn't fought over who's claim to divine bigotry was superior? I would argue that every war so far has been fought for the reason you put forward (various influences internal and external)


When I looked at the new Jurassic World movie and saw the Indominus Rex... I immediately thought of this "grand experiment" and was like ... hmmmmm
I wonder what the original traits and abilities were humans meant to have, whats been added... whats been taken away?

We REALLY don't know HOW off design we are?

A designer creator inkling: so you are inclined to support a more Religious view of Creation, the Ontological Position so to speak, the first principle being that you have a design, so you must have been designed. You exist so you must have a creator. You do back the idea of an Anthropos (pure human genome, or ideal human image), it seems. Would you venture to say if Jesus Christ is the embodyment of the Anthropos (or not)? Do you have a better suggestion that you can share?

Now to suppose that your design is flawed or that you are imperfect, is so much like a Christian believing he/she was born a sinner. How do you know the design is off? or better yet, how can you tell the design is not actually perfect?

[AscensionQuest]

And who created the 'concept' of the Cabal and Illuminati? It is so fully ingrained at this time that we no longer even question . . . . .

.........



The cabal are just a group of bankers.

The illuminati are just a group of billionaires.

It makes sense that they are in cahoots with each other. LOL

Based on the Ripple Effects of their actions, the Cabal & illuminati are spiritually bankrupt. They look inward and think only of themselves.

I see the strategy of the: ICC and Dark Fleet.

They were busy little bees from 1995 -2015.

They outnumber and outgun the Solar Warden S.S.P.

[Chester]

Your entire OP.

.........


Clearly and totally misunderstood and then misrepresented by your question as the question implies I said something I did not.

So I will make it real clear for you - never in the OP did I say or imply that non Earth born benevolent beings would think or not like a human.

Besides that being utterly ridiculous as amongst the zillions of human beings who have come and gone (after being birthed on earth) have displayed a massive spectrum of thinking how could anyone even make such an implication?

What I now ask you is what may be motivating you to type words that state I said something i clearly did not? Even what you quoted from my OP did not at all state or imply what you then state I stated or implied.

[Dreamtimer]

Both Foxfire and I answered you immediately, Sam, quoting the same paragraph from your OP.

You said, "Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?"

And I asked you how I have misinterpreted. And you did not respond. Or answer.

[lcam88]

Nope - Priest and the like are the feeders of group 2. Again there's a serious misinterpretation.

Also - never said natural law... stated natural processes.

I am beginning to wonder why folks in this thread have decided to misinterpret and twist up my words? Interesting.

Hey!

I said "Like a natural law", not you. It is a theory that I've heard circulated in some groups.

I think the misinterpretation boils down to the use of a single word "story". Sometimes, Sam Hunter, stories are true. In that case, Group 1 (as you define it) can also be termed "story teller", when they share their truth. Does that create too much declension from your original intended meaning?

Anyway, I go so far as to say that some people who purport to be telling the truth, actually do not. Priests.

Does that help?

[JByas]

Unless I am completely out of water on this topic

:congratulations:

[AscensionQuest]

Hey!

I said "Like a natural law", not you. It is a theory that I've heard circulated in some groups.

I think the misinterpretation boils down to the use of a single word "story". Sometimes, Sam Hunter, stories are true. In that case, Group 1 (as you define it) can also be termed "story teller", when they share their truth. Does that create too much declension from your original intended meaning?

Anyway, I go so far as to say that some people who purport to be telling the truth, actually do not. Priests.

Does that help?

Story Telling sounds like the Book of Genesis.

With our current knowledge of Genetic Engineering, it is impossible for us ALL to come from Adam & Eve.

Truth: Earth has a Hidden History.

The truth will be a shock to religious people.

[Chester]

And who created the 'concept' of the Cabal and Illuminati? It is so fully ingrained at this time that we no longer even question . . . . .

.........



Their existence did it. Wake Up.

[blufire]

Sam . . .. my main point is you keep referring to the ‘idea’ of benevolent off-world Beings. For an off-world/non-human Being to be benevolent then implies that this Being has a ‘human trait’ and implies the human definition and emotion of benevolence.

We keep assuming we know and understand what an off-world Being would be like and even assuming their actions would be benevolent or malevolent and that they would respond or treat or interact with us humans in human-like ways.

To assume and apply the basic concept of evilness or kindness (dualistic thinking) to a Being we know nothing about (I feel) foundationally is flawed.

[blufire]

Their existence did it. Wake Up.

When did these terms and concepts first appear in the alternative media and forums????? Think back Sam . . . I know you were active in the forums. Who created this foundational meme and has been building on it ever since??

You should wake up too my friend . . . . . . :smile2:

[Jengelen]

"Wouldn't you look at Earth and the track record of the humans of Earth in general to decide for yourself if it is worth the risk to tamper with such a localized expression in a way that raises the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease such that the vulnerable races in other parts of the universe are exposed?"

The bold is mine, the words are yours, Sam. My word 'dangerous' was an interpretation, I suppose. How is it that I have 'greatly misunderstood'?

I'd call it a localized experiment. The entire planet, and all life on the planet is geared toward conflict and survival of the fittest.

Everything appears to feed off of something, so much so that when one of those gets knocked out of the food chain it disturbs it to adapt.

So we have from the start a hunter prey scenario here across species. We have to eat each other to survive. We all need energy, and energy can't die or be created it just moves and is exchanged. Its like this. If there is one organism. The all is one thing, then this single organism has found a way to live forever by cheating it's own demise. The answer was to simply become multiple aspects of self with various levels of development, set it up so they only live so long but reproduce often so the species that it is never dies or is harder to die off that should be, and its all this repeating cycle because the aspects die, forget and the energy recycles over and over and over.

The entire Looosh scenario is witnessed right here in the garden daily. If we can only go by what we witness well, then the conclusion is simple. Need not matter the species. Whether it be an army of ants invading another rival ant colony as the two opposing sides war, or a school of dolphins driving the mackerel it hunts to the surface to stir them up to a panic and then feast on them or anyone of the other prey/survival scenarios going on here they all provide the same thing to the creator. Eternity to do it over and over as one parent dies or both and the children live on only to reproduce before they too die.

To the birds above even, they are not asleep to this relationship or the need for energy as the dolphins stir up the mackerel. So the birds, smart little guys, they are those that are waiting on the water surface for the dolphins to do this panic routine you see? Once again conflict and chaos in the harmony of nature and all so the birds too can feast on the chosen mackerel prey.

They do this even at the risk they get eaten too but this is a chance to take advantage to get that energy we all need. They see the dolphins chase the mackerel which is in fear for it's very existence pumping out all kinds of loosh now as it tries to escape death and in the process creating great emotional fear and what does it do?

The mackerel leaps from the water to escape from the dolphins only to be trapped out of the water and caught by the birds. So on one side or the other the mackerel is doomed! The garden is set up this way. Its a vast production of product going off these fish or any other prey in this same scenario here during these events!

Or if it is a sail fish equipped with extra large fins designed by nature to be just what they are. That is, big sails that block travel of panic stricken fish to better herd bait fish or other prey to then feast on them once trapped, or a wolf pack killing an elk dragging it to the ground, or a cat torturing a mouse before finally devouring it, it is just another of the many sacrifices that the system of this garden is geared for on this planet to provide the exchange and the progress of this repeating cycle. So in conclusion based on what I see, there is no way we can ever expect no conflict and no animosity situations. The mantra here on the news any site you pic, TV< Internet, or radio, its always the same. Shock and Awe! And they drain it dry each time too. Then they come up with things like a 'stimulus' package and that can't be a coincidence in the choice of words hey!?

[lcam88]

Story Telling sounds like the Book of Genesis.

Yes indeed. But that does not mean all stories that are told are necessarily false.

Unless I am completely out of the water here. :)

If the term "story telling" happens to carry a negative implication in context of truthiness, that serves only to show how much we value our fiction, not that every story told must be fiction.



With our current knowledge of Genetic Engineering, it is impossible for us ALL to come from Adam & Eve.


Indeed.

And you presume that Adam & Eve actually existed. shrug



Truth: Earth has a Hidden History.


Yes



The truth will be a shock to religious people.

If they ever notice the truth. My point was not to degrade Sam's Group 1. So let that be clarified. It is part of human nature to share their experiences with others. Institutionalize that and you have education systems. And while even history can be strongly argued to have bias (ie, it was doctored to make someone look good), there are some things that are actually told they way they happened. I can't give you an example from my pessimistic mood of the moment, but... You at least understand what I mean, stories can carry truth.

[Dreamtimer]

Hey Sam. You said in post #23, "Clearly my words have been greatly misunderstood. Please point out what words I stated where you drew these conclusions?" We replied just after, in post numbers 24 and 25.

It is indeed a serious question. So is portraying humanity as you did in your OP.

[The One]

I think its time for a song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpevZ0-wUYQ

:back to topic:

[Dreamtimer]

Foxfire, I'm very interested in your mention of foundational cornerstones and who laid them. I haven't been around the alternate scene long enough to know myself. I do know that I have heard from disparate people throughout my life of 'illuminati' and 'secret controllers'. I thought it was ridiculous at first, but the idea persists. And truth does often turn out to be stranger than fiction.

[AscensionQuest]

Yes indeed. But that does not mean all stories that are told are necessarily false.

Unless I am completely out of the water here. :)

If the term "story telling" happens to carry a negative implication in context of truthiness, that serves only to show how much we value our fiction, not that every story told must be fiction.



Indeed.

And you presume that Adam & Eve actually existed. shrug



Yes



If they ever notice the truth. My point was not to degrade Sam's Group 1. So let that be clarified. It is part of human nature to share their experiences with others. Institutionalize that and you have education systems. And while even history can be strongly argued to have bias (ie, it was doctored to make someone look good), there are some things that are actually told they way they happened. I can't give you an example from my pessimistic mood of the moment, but... You at least understand what I mean, stories can carry truth.

Book of Genesis : Annunaki + Draco Reptilians playing god --- little "g" --- with Adam & Eve.

Book of Exodus : 10 Plagues of Egypt .....i think actually occurred. On a side note: Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia, not the Sinai Peninsula.

Also, the Lord Jesus is real and was tempted by Satan.....briefly.

-----------------
Earth has a Hidden History: The Atlanteans

According to Tolec the Annunaki arrived thousands of years before Adam & Eve and successfully deceived the Atlanteans with the greeting;

"We are your friends."

It turns out the Annunaki were just lookin' for some human slaves. LOL

[Dracon]

When did these terms and concepts first appear in the alternative media and forums????? Think back Sam . . . I know you were active in the forums. Who created this foundational meme and has been building on it ever since?? :

Adam Weishaupt.

The "meme in the alternative community" predates forums by many years.

[lcam88]

Sam . . .. my main point is you keep referring to the ‘idea’ of benevolent off-world Beings. For an off-world/non-human Being to be benevolent then implies that this Being has a ‘human trait’ and implies the human definition and emotion of benevolence.

We keep assuming we know and understand what an off-world Being would be like and even assuming their actions would be benevolent or malevolent and that they would respond or treat or interact with us humans in human-like ways.

To assume and apply the basic concept of evilness or kindness (dualistic thinking) to a Being we know nothing about (I feel) foundationally is flawed.

These are interesting points Foxfire. At some level we are going to have reference to being treated in some way that is familiar to ways in which we can be treated. At the current moment, that treatment being: distance, avoiding, or hiding. If your point is that we cannot know the complete context by which to properly interprete our treatment because of lack of reference or perception. Then yes. I can agree with your statement.

There is an underlying presumption that can be more closely examined though: To suppose we cannot understand treatment or interactions of off-world beings is so much like a declaration that we are separate and distinct from the rest of the universe.

It is an affirmation of arrogance; the idea that we are separate and a unique part of creation, that for some reason, even though billions of years have passed in the known universe, species growing and dying away into extinction over all of that time, of which we humans have passed roughly 100,000 years, we must be the exception.

Or it's self deprecating; that we are orphan or foreign-element in relation to these off-world beings.

Insofar as you challenge that position and assumption, you can approximate real meaning in any interaction you may have with off-world or even worldly beings. You see, your position above also applies to worldly beings, starfish for example. There is no need to go so far into human conceived ET conspiracy to properly understand this position.

[lcam88]

Book of Genesis : Annunaki + Draco Reptilians playing god --- little "g" --- with Adam & Eve.

Book of Exodus : 10 Plagues of Egypt .....i think actually occurred. On a side note: Mt. Sinai is in Saudi Arabia, not the Sinai Peninsula.

Also, the Lord Jesus is real and was tempted by Satan.....briefly.

-----------------
Earth has a Hidden History: The Atlanteans

According to Tolec the Annunaki arrived thousands of years before Adam & Eve and successfully deceived the Atlanteans with the greeting;

"We are your friends."

It turns out the Annunaki were just lookin' for some human slaves. LOL

Is that something you accept as true? Are you reading from a Gnostic book?

That Annunaki story sounds like "Mars Attacks" that I watched as a teen. Can you reveal where there Tolec (is that toltecs misspelled) lived geographically on the planet?

I've heard stories suggesting that Atlantis is actually Antarctica. I know that Antarctica is a continent and that Atlantis is a mystical land that was long lost (somewhere).

Deception is nothing new. Other than that I have no basis for evaluating your interesting statements.

[lcam88]

I'd call it a localized experiment. The entire planet, and all life on the planet is geared toward conflict and survival of the fittest.


That is not entirely true. While predetorial plants are known (fly trap) they largely compete differently than the open conflict model. Maybe crowding each other out is a form of conflict, or soaking up all the water maybe?

Furthermore, there is much more going on than what the predator may see when it is hungry (and perhaps humans are always hungry when they seek to exploit natural resources or money and power)

A deviance to that order of survival of the fittest that is most noteworthy in nature is the lion that protects a baby elephant from a younger lion. Whether that is true, I don't know, but I have no reason to think it is not. We teach our children too, after all.



Everything appears to feed off of something, so much so that when one of those gets knocked out of the food chain it disturbs it to adapt.

So we have from the start a hunter prey scenario here across species. We have to eat each other to survive. We all need energy, and energy can't die or be created it just moves and is exchanged. Its like this. If there is one organism. The all is one thing, then this single organism has found a way to live forever by cheating it's own demise. The answer was to simply become multiple aspects of self with various levels of development, set it up so they only live so long but reproduce often so the species that it is never dies or is harder to die off that should be, and its all this repeating cycle because the aspects die, forget and the energy recycles over and over and over.

The entire Looosh scenario is witnessed right here in the garden daily. If we can only go by what we witness well, then the conclusion is simple. Need not matter the species. Whether it be an army of ants invading another rival ant colony as the two opposing sides war, or a school of dolphins driving the mackerel it hunts to the surface to stir them up to a panic and then feast on them or anyone of the other prey/survival scenarios going on here they all provide the same thing to the creator. Eternity to do it over and over as one parent dies or both and the children live on only to reproduce before they too die.

To the birds above even, they are not asleep to this relationship or the need for energy as the dolphins stir up the mackerel. So the birds, smart little guys, they are those that are waiting on the water surface for the dolphins to do this panic routine you see? Once again conflict and chaos in the harmony of nature and all so the birds too can feast on the chosen mackerel prey.

They do this even at the risk they get eaten too but this is a chance to take advantage to get that energy we all need. They see the dolphins chase the mackerel which is in fear for it's very existence pumping out all kinds of loosh now as it tries to escape death and in the process creating great emotional fear and what does it do?

The mackerel leaps from the water to escape from the dolphins only to be trapped out of the water and caught by the birds. So on one side or the other the mackerel is doomed! The garden is set up this way. Its a vast production of product going off these fish or any other prey in this same scenario here during these events!

Or if it is a sail fish equipped with extra large fins designed by nature to be just what they are. That is, big sails that block travel of panic stricken fish to better herd bait fish or other prey to then feast on them once trapped, or a wolf pack killing an elk dragging it to the ground, or a cat torturing a mouse before finally devouring it, it is just another of the many sacrifices that the system of this garden is geared for on this planet to provide the exchange and the progress of this repeating cycle. So in conclusion based on what I see, there is no way we can ever expect no conflict and no animosity situations. The mantra here on the news any site you pic, TV< Internet, or radio, its always the same. Shock and Awe! And they drain it dry each time too. Then they come up with things like a 'stimulus' package and that can't be a coincidence in the choice of words hey!?

I like your analogies.

I think its a disempowering model for human beings to think or accept they are playthings. That aspect would incline me to resent the idea of an experiment; an experiment suggests the design thereof for observations to be made. And as such the very idea that it is all an experiment would be revealed only at the last moments of the experiment by the experimenters so that an evaluation of the introduction of that information could be made.

It is very much like an idea circulated in Christianity, an apocalypse. I just can't see those types of ideas originating from a non-human source of truth.

[AscensionQuest]

Is that something you accept as true? Are you reading from a Gnostic book?

That Annunaki story sounds like "Mars Attacks" that I watched as a teen. Can you reveal where there Tolec (is that toltecs misspelled) lived geographically on the planet?

I've heard stories suggesting that Atlantis is actually Antarctica. I know that Antarctica is a continent and that Atlantis is a mystical land that was long lost (somewhere).

Deception is nothing new. Other than that I have no basis for evaluating your interesting statements.

Yes, i think the Book of Enki is about 90% true.

There is an area in India that is radioactive TODAY. The government has told people to stay away.

I think the Annunaki dropped 1 of their nuclear bombs there to attack the rebelling human slaves.

According to the book of Enki, they dropped 7 nukes. 1 was dropped on the Spaceport located on the Sinai Peninsula.

The Annunaki wrote it up as The Great Calamity.

There was also a crystal on top of the Pyramid of Giza (False Peak). It emitted a beacon up into space.

Another beacon was on top of Mt. Umm Schumar.

----------------
Atlantis is right where Edgar Cayce said it was. It's about 10 miles southeast of Bimini Island, Bahamas.

Somebody has been busy dumping tons of beautiful white sand all over it. LOL

---------------
The Mayans have joined with the Atlanteans and joined the S.S.P. Alliance that helps out Corey.

[lcam88]

Yes, i think the Book of Enki is about 90% true.

There is an area in India that is radioactive TODAY. The government has told people to stay away.

I think the Annunaki dropped 1 of their nuclear bombs there to attack the rebelling human slaves.

According to the book of Enki, they dropped 7 nukes. 1 was dropped on the Spaceport located on the Sinai Peninsula.

The Annunaki wrote it up as The Great Calamity.

There was also a crystal on top of the Pyramid of Giza (False Peak). It emitted a beacon up into space.

Another beacon was on top of Mt. Umm Schumar.

----------------
Atlantis is right where Edgar Cayce said it was. It's about 10 miles southeast of Bimini Island, Bahamas.

Somebody has been busy dumping tons of beautiful white sand all over it. LOL

---------------
The Mayans have joined with the Atlanteans and joined the S.S.P. Alliance that helps out Corey.

I've not been following the current events. I didn't notice the use of nuclear weapons in India during my time here. That sounds like a promising starting point though. New thread?

The archeological studies of the Mayans is interesting. Their reign ended with high walls around their homes; they became anti-social in their society it seems and felt the need to protect their homes from the public before they where conquered by the toltecs sometime about 1500 years before that region was conquered again by Aztecs. My world history for that era is fuzzy. I also contend their may be some issues with archeological conclusions drawn, maybe their views are not culturally relative in that they must presume a lot in their line of work. Are you possibly talking about a different Mayan civilization than I am?

I have not read the book of Enki, I prefer stuff written by Walter Russell or CW Leadbeater. But what you share from that book seems like the material of conspiracy theory to me. Why is it important?

[Chester]

Hey!

I said "Like a natural law", not you. It is a theory that I've heard circulated in some groups.

I think the misinterpretation boils down to the use of a single word "story". Sometimes, Sam Hunter, stories are true. In that case, Group 1 (as you define it) can also be termed "story teller", when they share their truth. Does that create too much declension from your original intended meaning?

Anyway, I go so far as to say that some people who purport to be telling the truth, actually do not. Priests.

Does that help?

Ahhh thanks for the clarity.

What I always try and maintain is all of what I write about are my actual (unembellished) experiences and then my opinions. I try to back everything up with facts and logic.

[Chester]

Sam . . .. my main point is you keep referring to the ‘idea’ of benevolent off-world Beings. For an off-world/non-human Being to be benevolent then implies that this Being has a ‘human trait’ and implies the human definition and emotion of benevolence.

We keep assuming we know and understand what an off-world Being would be like and even assuming their actions would be benevolent or malevolent and that they would respond or treat or interact with us humans in human-like ways.

To assume and apply the basic concept of evilness or kindness (dualistic thinking) to a Being we know nothing about (I feel) foundationally is flawed.

Since when is benevolence restricted to "human" beings? It sounds like you are the one making assumptions. Regardless that you would only see it as implying an underlying duality, my point in pointing out benevolent was more to point towards purported Beings that are claimed to be benevolent (have you been reading this forum) assumed to have this nature while simultaneously showing up to blockade inside our solar system the supposed "evil" Beings while telling us they are not here to save us.

[Chester]

When did these terms and concepts first appear in the alternative media and forums????? Think back Sam . . . I know you were active in the forums. Who created this foundational meme and has been building on it ever since??

You should wake up too my friend . . . . . . :smile2:

As you my friend "smiley"

You remind me of Bluefire (or something like that from PA) by the way... any connection?

[blufire]

As you my friend "smiley"

You remind me of Bluefire (or something like that from PA) by the way... any connection?


Yes I was blufire on PA

[blufire]

Since when is benevolence restricted to "human" beings? It sounds like you are the one making assumptions. Regardless that you would only see it as implying an underlying duality, my point in pointing out benevolent was more to point towards purported Beings that are claimed to be benevolent (have you been reading this forum) assumed to have this nature while simultaneously showing up to blockade inside our solar system the supposed "evil" Beings while telling us they are not here to save us.

I think I understand now . . . . you have assumed that I believe or agree with all the info about benevolent Beings coming to our rescue and the Sphere ships and humanity being enslaved and our souls and dna being manipulated and ascension and all the other alternative media and new age memes that have been ingrained for the last several years . . . . . I do not.

There is absolutely and emphatically no proof what so ever of these stories. . . . . only a bunch of forum/new age/alternative media/other individuals building on one story or bits of ‘beliefs’ after another using some factual information from history . . . . .the rest is a ploy to scam those who are gullible/naïve/ and need to believe in ‘something’ that appeals to that need. I think you would agree with that part.

It truly is a shame and makes me angry to see what certain individuals (Simon Parks, GoodET, Wilcock, many more) have been doing . . . all in the name of fame and glory and the almighty dollar.

Before the 2012 hoopla died down ‘they’ were already way into their next meme creation to keep the websites, forums, workshops, books, videos moving happily along.

Those of us who caught on years ago are systematically demeaned, ridiculed and banned when we speak too loudly or rock the boat a bit too much.

There are those of us who have had contact and have been actively moving forward with what we know in our souls is true . . . . .and I also truly believe that every human being on this planet knows these truths and it is suppressed with their daily activities and pressures of surviving in what is just the beginning of what is to come.

I believe many can feel and hear the whispers of this knowledge they carry and are trying to bring it to their ‘conscious mind’ and this is what makes them vulnerable to these charlatans and swindlers.

[Chester]

Edit: Change of heart

[Chester]

Edit: Change of heart

[grannyfranny]

I have confidence in one thing about ETS. They know more than we do about science and the universe. No matter what their different agendas, I feel their primary shared concern is that we could upset our universe by blowing up our planet and endanger other sentient beings. Lots of documents prove their attempts to get us to quit playing with matches (nuclear energy).

[Dreamtimer]

In your original OP you described the "track record of the humans of Earth in general" and expressed concern about "the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease".

Pretty clear, Sam. Your sovereign friend foxfire and I saw it right away.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're judging most of humanity or you're not in which case your OP needs a rewrite.

Perhaps you just did that in post #66. Your OP didn't distinguish the select few that the rest of us have 'allowed' to act on our behalf.

I don't like being told to 'stop reading' so I continued. If your point requires the belief in that select few then its meaning has changed from the original OP.

[Joanna]

Sam and all, a simple answer (at the risk of being predictable) is 'For the sake of Love, in service to Everything'.... ;)

So...imagine for a moment, you are on board a ship above the Earth. Let's say, in a human form, because that's a little easier for most humans currently focused into 3D on this planet to identify with than being say, an 10ft 7D Lion Being, for instance, and we can see/feel the 'genetic likeness' more easily. So you are a 5D human, for now, on a ship holding a 5D frequency, in a huge fleet of multidimensional ships and beings, quite a number of who have walked on the Earth in other 'timeframes'. Because you are not 'in time', all of those existence points are right Now, and you see and feel the connections of all the energies that have ever been on the planet, as you watch from your ship. You see the energies of Life - that were streaming around the planet, teeming with light and energy and vibrancy, in the era of Mu (Lemuria), when Earth was holding a 5D vibration - that have been locked down, the channels blocked, polarities reversed. You see the energies, once full of Life, endless and deathless, as they dropped into distortions and dark twists in the latter stage of Atlantis, and the planetary frequency dropping through 4D into the more condensed materialization of 3D, with extreme contrasts fed into it, that pulled so hard they broke the world apart.
You see how the 5D energies lived on, even in the 3D strata, in the hearts, souls and imperishable crystalline bodies of those who had remained in their 5D frequency state and evacuated from the broken world to areas as far apart as Egypt, Ur, Ireland, Doggerland (now underwater in the North Sea), and the Americas - and were seen as 'gods' as you walked through these lands, and tried to raise the consciousness up again from the 3D survival, eat-or-be-eaten polarity level - but wherever you went, in that state of consciousness, the current humans in their much reduced DNA/vibrational capacity, and easily susceptible to entities/forces of control, twisted what you gave into destructive and oppressive pathways.
Eventually, the ever more dense frequency of the planet, as it sank through multiple 'layers' of 3D, lost all convergence - or confluence - with your frequency, and you had to leave. It simply could not support you - and those who looked at you, where their densified vision met your frequency's field, like on a movie screen, they could see only the projections of their own terror, in this 'survival' programmed state, and they would fall on their knees and worship you, and sacrifice their animals, and even their children, to appease the projections of their own terror, and they could not discern you from the controllers of the 'polarity experience'. They could not see the heart of You at all - and in that state, your presence only ignited more distortion, more violence. So you left.
You could not stop loving them, because although they have forgotten and grown full of fear, you still see, feel and know them purely as your brothers, sisters, children, cousins, in soul, consciousness, and genetically. So you waited, until the moment - the galactic moment - when there is a Shift in the stream of frequencies, which you experience as a call from Source, to return into the Earth's atmosphere.
You knew that when you hit the etheric 'membrane' inserted between 3-4D around the planet by those in service to the polarity council, a thick wave of distortion would wrap around your arrival - and seek to paint you as saviours for dependent, helpless 'human children', here to evacuate them off a dying planet, or as demons pretending to be angels, so as to enslave the already enslaved, who see themselves as 'free', because the most effective enslavement is when beings think themselves to be free, while conditioned with limiting, containing programmes, their DNA locked down to 10% function, their brains down to 5-10% functionality.
As a human running on 100% of 12 strands of DNA and 100% of your brain function, you feel love and huge compassion for your locked down brothers and sisters. You can look right into their core, past all the clouding layers, defences of the ego-mind, convolutions, and see the pure imperishable spark of Source, unique and divine, that is the inner truth of every living being - and that is what you focus on, not the outer energies.
You are patient, as you know you are eternal, beyond time. Whenever and wherever you see/feel an opportunity, you send in a shaft of higher frequencies, and you are aware of where on the planet, and who, can work with you to anchor those frequencies, and fire the etheric grid of the planetary consciousness Gaia with new Life, like Mu reborn, which is what you see converging again into this Now, past all the false and distracting timelines, narratives and shall we say, both mental and technological resistances trying to blockade that re-firing.
Because you exist in a completely conscious unified field, currently focussed into/with your fleet companions, all supporting and uplifting each other constantly, you see All through the gaze of unity and total love. You also know that all distortions could peel away from those pure core sparks on the Earth in the blink of an eye, so you are ready, in every moment, to act and flow in complete flexibility with whatever steps become necessary, in the unfolding arc of Source's plan...whether it eventuates as Plan A, Plan B, Plan C or Plan-ET X......
Love drives, you...because you will it so....and that is the simple answer.... :love:

[Chester]

In your original OP you described the "track record of the humans of Earth in general" and expressed concern about "the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease".

Pretty clear, Sam. Your sovereign friend foxfire and I saw it right away.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're judging most of humanity or you're not in which case your OP needs a rewrite.

Perhaps you just did that in post #66. Your OP didn't distinguish the select few that the rest of us have 'allowed' to act on our behalf.

I don't like being told to 'stop reading' so I continued. If your point requires the belief in that select few then its meaning has changed from the original OP.

There's no judgment here but I can bet you read it as judgment like many do who are caught up in the dynamic of judgment/forgiveness - a game those who have yet to discover who they are love to play. Once you discover who you are, that game melts away.

This is assessment based on actuality. I imagine that advanced non-Earthly races have the capability to "see" and then form conclusions on what they have seen - especially when its a repeated pattern.

"In general" does not mean every single one. There have been and likely are exceptions. What is clear is that as a whole, we all are either participating in the horrors that no one will deny go forth on planet Earth today OR we are allowing it. Now maybe you might think your something different and maybe even think you are some poor victim of fate to find yourself here now or maybe you live in with a view everything is just fine here... and you have the free will to believe what you want.

That the whole entire point of my post was avoided because words are enjoyed being played with because things weren't exactly stated as you might have felt they should have been is interesting because I don't see any saints in anyone here, especially myself. I have sat back and taken the blind an easy road early in my life. I just happened to get sick of self deception. I didn't go out and war on folks, but I had to accept I have allowed it. Now of the two groups, are the allowers any better than the perps? Again.. maybe you see three or more groups - perhaps one of them is victims of a loving god that overlooked them.

So again - the whole point of the thread is being missed because of some who desire to make some big deal about words you desire to read completely out of context to the overall point. Again, you have that right. There's another two points for the opportunists who enjoy the benefits of the desiring to be divided and conquered human being.

One last try - I would not be surprised an advanced (relative to the general human being on Earth today) intelligent species that has the best interests of the wider universe in mind would feel its worth the risk to assist the human beings of Earth in expanding their influence when the track record is pretty horrific.

This does not mean each and every human being is no good. What it says is that perhaps the supposed awake and aware humans should stop blaming everyone and everything else and ask themselves how the hell they got into this situation in the first place. They just might discover they have failed in exercising personal responsibility. If they get to that realization, they just might discover they are sick and tired of their situation and the direction they are headed and thus begin to take some personal responsibility and actualize it in their lives.

My personal experience since I finally discovered this for myself is that my entire experience has dramatically changed and all for the good. I just thought I might pass along what helped me just in case there was one or two folks on the edge of this discovery who appreciate hearing someone being successful in adopting and applying this foundational world view.

I happen to make odds pretty good that if enough of us did this, instead of living on the life support of the intel drip feed while we spend our last dollars purchasing false hope... then maybe, just maybe, the world my children and my children's children inherit will be better than the one we have to experience.

[Tanta]

Why would any advanced benevolent non-Earthly race of beings wish to assist humans of Earth

Theoretically there are different possibilities. Lets assume they are philanthropistic.

Some benevolent alien race could help by making this planet a "rehab world". Problem is - there is no problem. At least as far as the majority of population is concerned. We all just need more money, that's it. It will all be better then... Cant have a rehab with non voluntary participants. Cant help those who refuse to be helped.

Some benevolent alien race could "borrow" from the shock doctrine. They apply the shock by making themselves known in a far more irrefutable manner than just a small blurry white speck on a video. No they do not "come down showering us with gifts". After the shock is applied it would be up to the "angelic humanity" to do whatever with it. Theoretically it could instill ideas and thoughts they would never have if not for the shock. What thoughts and ideas and the result of it...well...i leave that up to your imaginations.

Some benevolent race could "act responsibly", using the "proper channels", by going to our "beloved leaders" and offer them a helping hand. Thing is, they (gov) would respond with: "how do your weapons work".

Other than that...i cant really say why any would.

Ofc anyone can always claim some natural law, cosmic law, law of one, first contact law...whatever as to why some things happen or not or how...

[Cearna]

Hi Sam,
My own indication is that yes there are benevolent Extra terrestrial who do want to look after humanity, and after all why not. I can't prove anything, however, there are a race of people from the Pleiades (which I can't spell) who came here, way back in time, before Atlantis began. they came here because one of their Seers saw that their own Planets was going to be involved in a war with the Annunaki, and their Planet was simply, going to be no more. They had the time to prepare and they took to their space ships and some of them came here.

These people, here are called the Danaans, and they mostly lived in all the lands of the Celts, and still look after any person of Celtic origin if in need of help. After awhile they began to live underground here and still do. They have little to do with us preferring to stay where they are. Their Gods at least the two I know of are called Dana and the Alterator, their race being called the children of Dana. Regardless of the hype from any one else who says they are the progenitors of this human race, my two cents worth is that, the first people who lived here had no real form, my own memories tell me that when we arrived, we put a form around us which was whatever we thought we needed for whatever we came here for. Almost every one had a different form, some with many more than two arms and two legs.

However, we had difficultiees with the effect of the sun on our skins, so it was decided, that a new form was needed, and one of the Gods of the Danaan (female) used the sperm of a bear from the Andes (mammal) and from that came the Neanderthal who so far as I know only lived in the northern hemisphere, which not long afterwards developed in an Ice Age, so that human was admirably suited to that environment. they were small, but agile and had great thinking skills.

Later that same God of the Danaan, wanted to give us another choice, so her sperm this time was from the very first ever dog, and from that came one of great height, whom we give the name of homo erectus to.

These two some ones became the mothers only of some of our indigenous peoples, the first of whom were the Australian Aborigines. Later more of the humanoid peoples, came in space ships and landed right near Gosford NSW Australia, and if you look up the videos of stephen Strongs, you will see some of the rock carvings done by those peoples way back when. When some decided to go to another land they went to a part of the given up lands of some of the original gods, which although one land only at the time later became South America, Mexico and some of the United States, except the west coast wasn't there then. These became all one Nation to be known of as "The People"

Not much later on, people linked to Andromeda, became and kept coming in to the Northern Americas, mixed with the natives of the Hopi tribe, and so began Alliances of these two significant human races of space. What this meant was that, some of their own people listened to the stories and began to want to stop living in amongst their space families and came into families of their own people here on Earth. These were few in number, but to this day, both those ET families have visited one another through the time since before the Age of Dinosaurs, and to a large degree, we are made up of their DNA, not to be expunged from us ever, because God DNA, cannot be altered in the slightest.

The other race entered into our Solar System, to become reptoid, I won't speak about now.

However there is another race of Arians, so called because they came from within the Solar System of Aries, and these are whose name is imprinted on the Souls of us all. They came in vast Solar ships, which I call big mummas, (leviathons) and in them came (in ropes) slaves from every port of call the Reptoids these Reptoids came in to crush with planet crushin rocks hurled towards the planets, and ended many other human races in this one Galaxy alone. The heart of Human kind was self determined and thus species of guests to our shores, became armies and slaves to these races of Reptoids, and thus our near neighbours are reptoid and do not tolerate humans in the right to exist.

The point of this is the families of all humans who came here before the eruptions of volcanoes, due to Demonic interference and the use of nukes, to hurl us to nowhere, have ever since, kept a look out for interference in our affairs ever since. I made connections to these way back in the late 1980'w when they help me to do some energy work, to clear away the stench of the Reptoids and their attempt to rule over us. Ever since that time, I think New Years Eve, 1989, they've watched and lingered around to come to listen to what this world and its people really want for our own self determination. All other races I hold in contempt.

[Dreamtimer]

Sam, You've striven hard to rework your OP. And you've nicely avoided my challenges. Methinks thou dost protest too much about judging.

It's clear you believe very strongly in the 'select few' that humanity has 'allowed' to make decisions for us. Mark Passio and Dracon will surely back you up.

Like I said, most of humanity is good. They're still asleep, unaware. Good ETs may very well help behind the scenes. I would. Especially if I can see that they've been had by a 'select few' who are screwing the whole place up for everyone. I may even decide, before it gets to the point of no return, to help openly.

When I see the truth of nescience AND ignorance I'd work to alleviate both.

I wouldn't give up on them because they're stupid ignorant sheeple who gave away the farm millenia ago. That's just dumb.

[Hugh Mann]

I agree with your statement but would like to add to it. From what I have been reading and the way I understand it, In general terms, Earth was/is a great experiment and things have gotten out of hand (out of balance). Since nature is all about balance, she is correcting the imbalance. Perhaps the intervention is karmic in nature. Perhaps the beings that were involved in the great experiment made mistakes and are trying to correct the mistakes to release themselves from karma. Perhaps, by helping us to release our burdens, they are helping themselves. IMHO things do seem to be out of whack because out of 8 billion+/- souls only a small portion is ready to graduate from this school. Perhaps those who are intervening are also doing so to protect the planet from destruction. The humans are doing a good job of messing things up. Think about the vast amounts of various lifeforms and species here and how beautiful Earth is. Isn't she worth protecting? There are probably many reasons and agendas at play.

[Joanna]

They just might discover they have failed in exercising personal responsibility. If they get to that realization, they just might discover they are sick and tired of their situation and the direction they are headed and thus begin to take some personal responsibility and actualize it in their lives.

My personal experience since I finally discovered this for myself is that my entire experience has dramatically changed and all for the good. I just thought I might pass along what helped me just in case there was one or two folks on the edge of this discovery who appreciate hearing someone being successful in adopting and applying this foundational world view.

Sam, I totally agree with this, it has been my experience too. When I took personal responsibility for my own happiness and started living in the Present, letting go of the past, and relaxing about the future, everything changed way for the better. I also feel, in terms of true benevolent ETs, when we do take that self responsibility, and basically get out of our own way, and have the will and the love to do what is necessary to get out of our own way, that is when we can connect with those ETs....because we have to meet them in the middle. They are here, and are holding themselves in a certain vibration, and if we will focus on meeting them halfway, then we will indeed be able to walk the earth together again....openly, no veils, working together....

That statement 'We are the ones we've been waiting for' I feel as a very expanded and inclusive 'We'. It's all of us, on Earth, within and above, not 'either/or'; this is one big scale cooperative effort, getting this planet up another evolutionary notch.....

[Joanna]

I agree with your statement but would like to add to it. From what I have been reading and the way I understand it, In general terms, Earth was/is a great experiment and things have gotten out of hand (out of balance). Since nature is all about balance, she is correcting the imbalance. Perhaps the intervention is karmic in nature. Perhaps the beings that were involved in the great experiment made mistakes and are trying to correct the mistakes to release themselves from karma. Perhaps, by helping us to release our burdens, they are helping themselves. IMHO things do seem to be out of whack because out of 8 billion+/- souls only a small portion is ready to graduate from this school. Perhaps those who are intervening are also doing so to protect the planet from destruction. The humans are doing a good job of messing things up. Think about the vast amounts of various lifeforms and species here and how beautiful Earth is. Isn't she worth protecting? There are probably many reasons and agendas at play.

My sense of this is slightly different; not that this whole thing was orchestrated as an 'experiment' (or that Earth is a 'school') but as an 'experience' - the 'polarity game experience', which was allowed to be conducted, simply for the growth and expansion possible within the range of that experience. It's similar in meaning, but not quite the same....
The ETs helping here now, who are in unity consciousness, the 5D+ field/stratas, are beyond the stage of 'karma', in the way we understand it, of energies that have to be balanced out in thoughts/words/deeds in time and space, because they are not IN time, or space as we define it - by distances between objects. Their space is not defined by distances, or the karmic polarity of 'cause and effect'. They have no 'karma' left to clear....They are cause-and-effect in One; there is no separation, and therefore no 'rebound'/balancing of equal but opposite energies of 'karma'. They are here, assisting, because Source has called them to do so, and they align their will freely with Source. It's an act of Love.....

The Earth is so worth protecting, and they are doing so continuously, or it wouldn't still be habitable, or even possibly still in one piece....between constant attempts to initiate WW3, CERN, Fukushima, and the odd planet that has needed redirecting, to name but a few 'issues', this planet and all its beautiful life would probably not be here now. Pretty major interventions, wouldn't you say? However, they continue to hold the space - for now - for humanity to get its act together, while there is still 'time', so that we can meet and act openly, collectively, as brothers and sisters...rather than them having to step in as parents with toddlers that need to be pulled into line and taught how to behave. They will do so, if all else fails, but it isn't the preferred option. It comes back to that 'personal responsibility' thing Sam talked about....and holding the space for maximum growth within this 'experience'......so they keep holding the space....

[lcam88]

Ahhh thanks for the clarity.

What I always try and maintain is all of what I write about are my actual (unembellished) experiences and then my opinions. I try to back everything up with facts and logic.

Your welcome, I'm glad it helped.

I do not normally try to back-up what I write. :) That is very very hard when your subject-matter is a hypothetical, but I normally have an example at the tip of the tongue but merely illustrative, it's way less than ideal evidence but it's easer. For the actually hard stuff, I just ask meaningful and sometimes pointed questions. That leaves me without any requirement to actually reveal more hard facts than I want, even though I still optionally may include it whenever convenient; if someone want's to be an authority in this ever more finely granulated field of "greys" (pun intended) they certainly can try. I don't want the pedestal.

It's good enough for me that someone may understands the reason a question may be relevant. It is way more interesting to have people think about whatever, then having them absorb something you may be spoon feeding. Maybe because they are more stimulated into involvement. I suppose there are many types of people.

I think one of my greatest difficulties is that sometimes my articulations as I later read my posts are ambiguous to the true nature of what I mean or sometimes even the context of what I reply to. That is as close to a confession as you will get, of me declaring that I understand what I want to understand and sometimes I read between the lines to get there. <shrug/>

[lcam88]

I have confidence in one thing about ETS. They know more than we do about science and the universe. No matter what their different agendas, I feel their primary shared concern is that we could upset our universe by blowing up our planet and endanger other sentient beings. Lots of documents prove their attempts to get us to quit playing with matches (nuclear energy).

I am not sure I share your confidence regarding ETs. That would presume you know something about ETs that I do not. Care to share?

Nuclear energy is good or bad depending on out it is used; I think it is possible to educate a 5 year-old in the proper use of firearms, for example. That said, it is not possible to educate someone who thinks they already know. That is perspective to your earlier claim that ET's know more than we do, FYI. If indeed your confidence was well placed, those ET's wouldn't have even tried.

I continue to emphasis that self-deprecation or disempowerment of human-kind is something that absolutely must be reversed. It is something that has gone on for the last couple of thousand years and it has not made any really great strides in the advancement of who we are.

[lcam88]

In your original OP you described the "track record of the humans of Earth in general" and expressed concern about "the chances this group gains off world capabilities to spread their parasitical disease".

Pretty clear, Sam. Your sovereign friend foxfire and I saw it right away.

You can't have it both ways. Either you're judging most of humanity or you're not in which case your OP needs a rewrite.

Perhaps you just did that in post #66. Your OP didn't distinguish the select few that the rest of us have 'allowed' to act on our behalf.

I don't like being told to 'stop reading' so I continued. If your point requires the belief in that select few then its meaning has changed from the original OP.

So you cannot possibly see what Sam has written as possibly originating from a non-judgmental position then? That perhaps it is part of a "throw in the towel" type of generally held viewpoint or a foregone judgement already held in circulation by some groups? In such a context what he has commented on does not actually introducing his own judgements? I must say, what you have quoted is not something I originally have heard from Sam, it is not a new idea. I have even likened it to a species of "natural law" for as old as I see the idea to be. Are you prepared to say that it is indeed an original judgement made by Sam?

While I admire your and foxfire's position to challenge what meanings may be gotten, why has Sam's clarifications hereto not been sufficient for you? Is there some actual and new idea that I have missed that you intend to reveal in context of the quoted text or it's implications? Can you make that revelation please?

EDIT: Thanks for your views. I wrote the nitpick now gone too soon it seems. I too believe people in general are innately good. I personally think we need absolutely no foreign help to survive and prosper.

[pointessa]

Sam, I was going to post something of the same sentiment this morning but you have done such a beautiful and eloquent job that I find no need, thank you!!!!!! Truly, I cannot imagine any beings that would want to let us in any way off of this planet or assist us..I think it is possible that we are quarantined . We simply are not fit to do so at the level of consciousness we are currently at. Could you even imagine if we were given all this new technology and wealth as some have proclaimed, where everyone is a millionaire. How long would that last before the exploitation of the vulnerable returned us to the same place? We would only expedite our own destruction, as long as we are ego centered at the current level that exists. The idea that we are going to be rewarded even though we our destroying ourselves, not to mention the genocide of all living creatures, and our living environment because we are really, really good at making high tech things defies any logic.

I want to admit that there was a time where I was vulnerable to this kind of thing. It is only natural, when you are a race of creatures wallowing in your own excrement up to your neck. Yeah, who wouldn't mind help, but any ET that gave us access or technology to go to off world locations would have to be as impaired as we are. I had never considered the disease issue. Nope I don't think there is a savior coming any time soon..and particularly not one that comes in a quasi-military style.

I think it is the years of seeking truth earnestly that one ,by deduction, realizes that truth is realized from within and sometimes it ain't pretty.

[Chester]

Theoretically there are different possibilities. Lets assume they are philanthropistic.

Some benevolent alien race could help by making this planet a "rehab world". Problem is - there is no problem. At least as far as the majority of population is concerned. We all just need more money, that's it. It will all be better then... Cant have a rehab with non voluntary participants. Cant help those who refuse to be helped.

Some benevolent alien race could "borrow" from the shock doctrine. They apply the shock by making themselves known in a far more irrefutable manner than just a small blurry white speck on a video. No they do not "come down showering us with gifts". After the shock is applied it would be up to the "angelic humanity" to do whatever with it. Theoretically it could instill ideas and thoughts they would never have if not for the shock. What thoughts and ideas and the result of it...well...i leave that up to your imaginations.

Some benevolent race could "act responsibly", using the "proper channels", by going to our "beloved leaders" and offer them a helping hand. Thing is, they (gov) would respond with: "how do your weapons work".

Other than that...i cant really say why any would.

Ofc anyone can always claim some natural law, cosmic law, law of one, first contact law...whatever as to why some things happen or not or how...

And if this has all happened before and happened many times, and each time the shot callers on Earth make worse and worse calls and all the rest stand back and allow these calls to be made and these benevolent races actually have access to the truthful history so they see the pattern, it is quite possible at some point they see any form of "help" as actually enabling.

Most parents that have had children understands this situation well... help and help and help and then... once it is recognized that the help is actually enabling, if you love your children as well as love those who your children may be effecting negatively, you might stop (as I have) and step back and allow the Universe to resolve the matter, Herself.

That is the whole entire point I was attempting to make via this thread.

Some may get it, some might wish to avoid acknowledging its validity.

Some may disagree and suggest that "help" (intervention) in any form should never stop.

Some may say, what does it all matter and why even bother to raise the point.

I am not telling you what to think. I made a hypothetical case for a possibility. I backed it with logic. I have discovered the wisdom of this in the microcosmic example of some of my own children, one who I had to refuse re-entry into my home whereby he ended up moving into the woods and his brother's car.

Sometimes there is only one ultimate response that can be given (in love) and that response is, "No... no more."

[Chester]

Hi Sam,
My own indication is that yes there are benevolent Extra terrestrial who do want to look after humanity, and after all why not.

Every post I (and now some others) have made in this thread has presented a pretty good case for "why not."

Check out Pointesa's post here
(http://jandeane81.com/threads/7322-A-serious-question?p=841930819&viewfull=1#post841930819)

[Chester]

Sam, You've striven hard to rework your OP. And you've nicely avoided my challenges. Methinks thou dost protest too much about judging.


Actually, I have transcended judgment. Those who know me and my personal story know this is true. Another thing I have transcended is jealousy. Those who know me and my personal story know this is true.

There are a few more I am still working on. One is patience... another deals with wanting to win (win what?? haha) and the last is slander (something I still struggle with).

One thing you'll never experience from me is dishonesty. If you insist on taking the OP the way you wish and then desire to suggest I am avoiding your challenges then enjoy your view! At least its my opinion you have the full right to do this. Also, I don't pound the report button as I don't need moderators protecting my "branding efforts" (this comment was not meant towards you, Dreamtimer).

[Chester]

I agree with your statement but would like to add to it. From what I have been reading and the way I understand it, In general terms, Earth was/is a great experiment and things have gotten out of hand (out of balance). Since nature is all about balance, she is correcting the imbalance. Perhaps the intervention is karmic in nature. Perhaps the beings that were involved in the great experiment made mistakes and are trying to correct the mistakes to release themselves from karma. Perhaps, by helping us to release our burdens, they are helping themselves. IMHO things do seem to be out of whack because out of 8 billion+/- souls only a small portion is ready to graduate from this school. Perhaps those who are intervening are also doing so to protect the planet from destruction. The humans are doing a good job of messing things up. Think about the vast amounts of various lifeforms and species here and how beautiful Earth is. Isn't she worth protecting? There are probably many reasons and agendas at play.

If a soul inhabits a body and then that body murders hundreds of others over and over and eventually they kill themselves or someone else kills them first, what then happens with that soul? Is it destroyed, is it condemned to an eternal hell?

Or is it possible it has new experiences which might provide that soul the opportunity to adjust its world views which are foundational to that soul's vehicle's behaviors?

At some point, people allow folks to self destruct (physically). Why would that not be a possibility when a pattern over many millennia has been observed by outside races? This is my only point.

first a custodial race of a planet instead harms all life and the planet.

Help once - good

pattern of destruction continues

help twice - maybe still good

pattern of destruction continues

help three times - hummm is this really helping?

pattern of destruction continues

see the beings of the planet gaining more and more technology which suggests they could one day expand their patterns of behavior further out into the universe.

help more???

I see a dilemma here.

[AscensionQuest]

If a soul inhabits a body and then that body murders hundreds of others over and over and eventually they kill themselves or someone else kills them first, what then happens with that soul? Is it destroyed, is it condemned to an eternal hell?

Or is it possible it has new experiences which might provide that soul the opportunity to adjust its world views which are foundational to that soul's vehicle's behaviors?

At some point, people allow folks to self destruct (physically). Why would that not be a possibility when a pattern over many millennia has been observed by outside races? This is my only point.

first a custodial race of a planet instead harms all life and the planet.

Help once - good

pattern of destruction continues

help twice - maybe still good

pattern of destruction continues

help three times - hummm is this really helping?

pattern of destruction continues

see the beings of the planet gaining more and more technology which suggests they could one day expand their patterns of behavior further out into the universe.

help more???

I see a dilemma here.

Sam, i think i have an answer for you.

According to Betty Eadie ( Embraced by the Light ) after you die you go to area of heaven known as the Heavenly Council.

It is there that you receive something called a : Life Review.

During your Life Review you are shown the Ripple Effects of your actions while here on Earth.

The Heavenly Council is run by the Lords of Karma.

Jesus is there and so is The Creator / The Spirit Father.

[Shadowself]

Breaking Habits Of perception => conception

ALLOWING NEW RECEPTION

Keepin' Yo Hiney Shiny: via the Lords of Karma?

~

In my perspective conceived existential POV:


Worship the new and improved gods is the shifting of responsibility. Demons do the dirty work and release you from your responsibility. The devil made me do it?

Ergo freedom is perceived given under the law of religion and some written moral codes of conduct to follow to the letter.

Sigmund Freud wrote; "Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility."

Under religious text your responsibility and moral codes are to give up your freedom and follow the doctrine. Why? Because it's "written".

It's in the name of Go(o)d that some of the bloodiest wars are fought.

There are several common examples of how people avoid responsibility. Conformity is one good example. Blind allegiance to various organizations and institutions including political parties and religious institutions. The problem with blind allegiance is when a person gives up their responsibility to critically think through the beliefs, perspectives, and values of the organization or religion. When this happens, the individual's values are no longer authentic.

Another way to avoid responsibility can occur through the belief that one is powerless. The wrath of God comes to mind.
So to sets in motion Worship of the all mighty Gods of Ori(gin)

~

It's too much man!

Conformity/Blind allegiance

Let it all hang out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWN65nAkk20&feature=youtu.be

[pointessa]

Really awesome question, Sam! I think that the "humans" that choose to control/manipulate/terrorize/enslave etc. are not "human" at all. Not really. My limited observation (48 years, two universities, three states, five cities, 17 years of teaching under 8 years old) of human nature is that people are basically good at heart; at least they are born that way. Granted, I have never left the country, and I don't have any experience with hard criminals.

I think an advanced, benevolent off-planet race would see the good in us and surely want to send aid to the 'slaves'. I don't think 'humans' have a parasitical disease, I think it is the off-planet folks who were here aeons ago were the parasites.

My 2cents :)


We may or may not have been altered but we have to live with what we are. Look at the world you live in. Not your college educated middle class world where the streets are neat and you haven't even seen a smack of martial law yet. If we are not evil then we are easily deceived and devastatingly tolerant of a corrupt and evil system. I am not only talking governments, but profit takers who will scavenge and rape the planet and all living things so that we can have crap that we do not need.Why do we want so much crap, because we are told we need more. Many of us live in ridiculous excess. We buy our food in clear packages, nice and sanitized which allows us to separate ourselves from our natural world, so we aren't even aware of the torture, terror and degradation that the living creature endured so we can make a quick stop at the grocery . We as humans are easily deceived. Most can exist quite happily if their tiny realm is not disturbed too much. And all we really need is someone to save our butts. And don't think that I write this , thinking I am a exception to this, I am not. But I see it and that is the first step to evolving consciousness that will bring us out of our dilemma. The only answer, the only savior will be a expanded consciousness.


If I allow my spouse to harm my children but say nothing and do not interfere does that make me basically decent, as long as I do not participate? I am making an analogy does anyone get it?


The greatest help any ET could give us is to let us learn to help ourselves by becoming courageous, self realized and compassionate beings. If we don't achieve that , then things will continue on the same path until we self annihilate.

[AscensionQuest]

Breaking Habits Of perception => conception

ALLOWING NEW RECEPTION

Keepin' Yo Hiney Shiny: via the Lords of Karma?

~

In my perspective conceived existential POV:


Worship the new and improved gods is the shifting of responsibility. Demons do the dirty work and release you from your responsibility. The devil made me do it?

Ergo freedom is perceived given under the law of religion and some written moral codes of conduct to follow to the letter.

Sigmund Freud wrote; "Most people do not really want freedom, because freedom involves responsibility, and most people are frightened of responsibility."

Under religious text your responsibility and moral codes are to give up your freedom and follow the doctrine. Why? Because it's "written".

It's in the name of Go(o)d that some of the bloodiest wars are fought.

There are several common examples of how people avoid responsibility. Conformity is one good example. Blind allegiance to various organizations and institutions including political parties and religious institutions. The problem with blind allegiance is when a person gives up their responsibility to critically think through the beliefs, perspectives, and values of the organization or religion. When this happens, the individual's values are no longer authentic.

Another way to avoid responsibility can occur through the belief that one is powerless. The wrath of God comes to mind.
So to sets in motion Worship of the all mighty Gods of Ori(gin)

~

It's too much man!

Conformity/Blind allegiance

Let it all hang out


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWN65nAkk20&feature=youtu.be

Remember that part where Lucifer and many other fallen angels where thrown down on Earth?

That was the Lords of Karma. They transformed Earth into a : Prison Planet.

Lucifer, Beelzebub and Leviathan were first 3 thrown down here. They can't leave.

[Aragorn]

Remember that part where Lucifer and many other fallen angels where thrown down on Earth?

I'm afraid you're putting too much dogmatic faith into the badly warped recount of a number of texts which were themselves written specifically for the mindset and culture in the Middle-East thousands of years ago. Not only were those texts mostly metaphorical in nature and specific to the culture of that area and era, but they have also badly been distorted, both unintentionally (through mistranslation) and deliberately (by the Roman Catholic Church as a power structure which ruled the western hemisphere for 800 years).

There are no such things as fallen angels, because angels -- as described in both the Roman-Catholic Bible and in the Koran -- do not possess Free Will. They are considered to merely be emanations from the Abrahamic deity -- i.e. Jahweh/JeHoVa, God, Allah -- representing different aspects of that Abrahamic deity. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, and I could say much more on this subject -- and I already have a few times, elsewhere on the forum -- but I don't want to derail this thread.


That was the Lords of Karma. They transformed Earth into a : Prison Planet.

Lucifer, Beelzebub and Leviathan were first 3 thrown down here. They can't leave.


There is also no such entity as Lucifer. The name Lucifer only became a proper name through the King George translation of the Bible from Latin to English, and is absent in all other translations. The word "lucifer" is Latin for "bearer of light", and the pertinent passage was a letter from the apostle Peter to the king of Tyrus (Babylon), in which Peter sarcastically chastised said king over his corruption and evil deeds. However, that person was only a mortal human being.


The name Beëlzebub is one of the many names of Baäl, also known as Bel or Belial, who was supposedly a deity worshipped by -- I believe -- the Assyrians.


The creature Leviathan is a metaphor for the state of the universe before Creation. It was supposedly a mythical sea monster -- in the Old Testament -- which was defeated by Jawheh/JeHoVa, as a metaphor for the victory of order over chaos.


Karma does not have any "lords". Karma is merely the restoration of an energetic balance that was perturbed by one's actions. Karmic resolution is a property of Creation itself.

[AscensionQuest]

I'm afraid you're putting too much dogmatic faith into the badly warped recount of a number of texts which were themselves written specifically for the mindset and culture in the Middle-East thousands of years ago. Not only were those texts mostly metaphorical in nature and specific to the culture of that area and era, but they have also badly been distorted, both unintentionally (through mistranslation) and deliberately (by the Roman Catholic Church as a power structure which ruled the western hemisphere for 800 years).

There are no such things as fallen angels, because angels -- as described in both the Roman-Catholic Bible and in the Koran -- do not possess Free Will. They are considered to merely be emanations from the Abrahamic deity -- i.e. Jahweh/JeHoVa, God, Allah -- representing different aspects of that Abrahamic deity. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, and I could say much more on this subject -- and I already have a few times, elsewhere on the forum -- but I don't want to derail this thread.




There is also no such entity as Lucifer. The name Lucifer only became a proper name through the King George translation of the Bible from Latin to English, and is absent in all other translations. The word "lucifer" is Latin for "bearer of light", and the pertinent passage was a letter from the apostle Peter to the king of Tyrus (Babylon), in which Peter sarcastically chastised said king over his corruption and evil deeds. However, that person was only a mortal human being.


The name Beelzebub is one of the many names of Baäl, also known as Bel or Belial, who was supposedly a deity worshipped by -- I believe -- the Assyrians.


The name Leviathan is a metaphor for the state of the universe before Creation. It was supposedly a mythical sea monster -- in the Old Testament -- which was defeated by Jawheh/JeHoVa, as a metaphor for the victory of order over chaos.


Karma does not have any "lords". Karma is merely the restoration of an energetic balance that was perturbed by one's actions. Karmic resolution is a property of Creation itself.


The Catholic Church has their hands full with demonic possession in Italy.

Note: Lucifer / Satan did......NOT?......temp Jesus as described in the Holy Bible?

[Aragorn]

The Catholic Church has their hands full with demonic possession in Italy.

Demons are another matter. They are not fallen angels. They could be Jinn, but they are either way beings with Free Will, to the same extent as that human beings have Free Will. Some of those beings will be good, others will be lukewarm or indifferent, and others will be evil. It's the latter ones which are then considered demons.


Note: Lucifer / Satan did......NOT?......temp Jesus as described in the Holy Bible?

Not quite, no. That story is only a metaphor.

[AscensionQuest]

Demons are another matter. They are not fallen angels. They could be Jinn, but they are either way beings with Free Will, to the same extent as that human beings have Free Will. Some of those beings will be good, others will be lukewarm or indifferent, and others will be evil. It's the latter ones which are then considered demons.



Not quite, no. That story is only a metaphor.

Oh, i see what you mean now.;)

[pointessa]

I'd call it a localized experiment. The entire planet, and all life on the planet is geared toward conflict and survival of the fittest.

Everything appears to feed off of something, so much so that when one of those gets knocked out of the food chain it disturbs it to adapt.

So we have from the start a hunter prey scenario here across species. We have to eat each other to survive. We all need energy, and energy can't die or be created it just moves and is exchanged. Its like this. If there is one organism. The all is one thing, then this single organism has found a way to live forever by cheating it's own demise. The answer was to simply become multiple aspects of self with various levels of development, set it up so they only live so long but reproduce often so the species that it is never dies or is harder to die off that should be, and its all this repeating cycle because the aspects die, forget and the energy recycles over and over and over.

The entire Looosh scenario is witnessed right here in the garden daily. If we can only go by what we witness well, then the conclusion is simple. Need not matter the species. Whether it be an army of ants invading another rival ant colony as the two opposing sides war, or a school of dolphins driving the mackerel it hunts to the surface to stir them up to a panic and then feast on them or anyone of the other prey/survival scenarios going on here they all provide the same thing to the creator. Eternity to do it over and over as one parent dies or both and the children live on only to reproduce before they too die.

To the birds above even, they are not asleep to this relationship or the need for energy as the dolphins stir up the mackerel. So the birds, smart little guys, they are those that are waiting on the water surface for the dolphins to do this panic routine you see? Once again conflict and chaos in the harmony of nature and all so the birds too can feast on the chosen mackerel prey.

They do this even at the risk they get eaten too but this is a chance to take advantage to get that energy we all need. They see the dolphins chase the mackerel which is in fear for it's very existence pumping out all kinds of loosh now as it tries to escape death and in the process creating great emotional fear and what does it do?

The mackerel leaps from the water to escape from the dolphins only to be trapped out of the water and caught by the birds. So on one side or the other the mackerel is doomed! The garden is set up this way. Its a vast production of product going off these fish or any other prey in this same scenario here during these events!

Or if it is a sail fish equipped with extra large fins designed by nature to be just what they are. That is, big sails that block travel of panic stricken fish to better herd bait fish or other prey to then feast on them once trapped, or a wolf pack killing an elk dragging it to the ground, or a cat torturing a mouse before finally devouring it, it is just another of the many sacrifices that the system of this garden is geared for on this planet to provide the exchange and the progress of this repeating cycle. So in conclusion based on what I see, there is no way we can ever expect no conflict and no animosity situations. The mantra here on the news any site you pic, TV< Internet, or radio, its always the same. Shock and Awe! And they drain it dry each time too. Then they come up with things like a 'stimulus' package and that can't be a coincidence in the choice of words hey!?





Jengelen, what you say her is so very insightful, beautifully stated and your examples drive your points home. This resonates as truth to me. I think it would be a wonderful thread on it's own if you are willing and have the time

[Chester]

Remember that part where Lucifer and many other fallen angels where thrown down on Earth?

That was the Lords of Karma. They transformed Earth into a : Prison Planet.

Lucifer, Beelzebub and Leviathan were first 3 thrown down here. They can't leave.

You say this like it is fact.

This is the beginning of the problem.

I have no issue with folks who buy a myth.

But, please, do not project that myth as if it is fact unless you wish someone like me to suggest you are simply reciting a myth as I am now doing.

Aragorn puts it well... these myths are far more likely to be metaphors... not facts.

[Chester]

Is that something you accept as true? Are you reading from a Gnostic book?

That Annunaki story sounds like "Mars Attacks" that I watched as a teen. Can you reveal where there Tolec (is that toltecs misspelled) lived geographically on the planet?

I've heard stories suggesting that Atlantis is actually Antarctica. I know that Antarctica is a continent and that Atlantis is a mystical land that was long lost (somewhere).

Deception is nothing new. Other than that I have no basis for evaluating your interesting statements.

S/he was referring to Tolec -

IFCVz-fKQnU

[lcam88]

S/he was referring to Tolec -

IFCVz-fKQnU

Ahh clarification. I've never heard of the Tolec. Is the vid worth watching?

[Chester]

Ahh clarification. I've never heard of the Tolec. Is the vid worth watching?

Honestly - I couldn't tell you... I am just aware of Tolec who is associated with someone I corresponded with a few years back named Tanaath. Tanaath had some incredible stories she shared. Her demeanor as a human being was wonderful. I recall she (at that time) endorsed Tolec.

You can hear some of her in this show... starting around 33:40 ish

GBuXwvu8_mQ

[Cearna]

Every post I (and now some others) have made in this thread has presented a pretty good case for "why not."

Check out Pointesa's post here
(http://jandeane81.com/threads/7322-A-serious-question?p=841930819&viewfull=1#post841930819)


Did you read the rest of what I wrote, or just that one sentence? I understand where you and Pointesa are coming from and yes indeed why not, but at least, please read what I said after this .

[citsym]

Honestly - I couldn't tell you... I am just aware of Tolec who is associated with someone I corresponded with a few years back named Tanaath. Tanaath had some incredible stories she shared. Her demeanor as a human being was wonderful. I recall she (at that time) endorsed Tolec.

You can hear some of her in this show... starting around 33:40 ish

I just listened to the section where Tanaath was talking, and did a quick transcribe of what she said, for those interested. I found the material sat well with me.
Particularly the last part where she states:


there is no fate or destiny or predetermined path. We must make our own fate, our own destiny and our own future.

This sits well with me. A few years ago I was show my "karma" via a meditation, where the "karma" was loaded on to a computer screen as folders. Each folder was then opened and all the documents in all the folders were then deleted, except one... which has hinged around an attitude issue, and has now been deleted.
So for some time I have been under the impression that karma no longer has a hold on us, and since listening to Tanaath, I am slowly starting to realise what's been happening to me.

I now live in Vietnam, I don't know Vietnamese well enough to listen to all the negative news, so I'm effectively cocooned from that. My wife belongs to a church, which I had a hard time attending, but I wished to support her. During the year, I have come to realise that her congregation, are beautiful, service to all, people who have taught me to be open and trusting.

As I am writing this, I have just realised something else. (read chicken skin all over)
Many years ago, I had my guide leave me. We had worked closely for many years, and I was devastated. As he was leaving he made me aware that I was to wait for another "gardener" to come and nourish my small plot. When nothing happened, after years of waiting, I just basically gave up on the concept of ever progressing as a being. I have been crying, getting angry, not understanding why I have been left, why I don't have any destiny running through my being!

... and just tonight, writing this, I have realised "I am the gardener, I have been waiting for" ... I have realized that I have all the people around me to help me work my small plot ... and I have just realised how lucky I am....

Everything we do is important, it creates our future ... So true!

Tanaath speaking

First point
Many things are two tailed. What this means is that they can be used for good or for ill and it also means that a lot of events have two potential expressions one of which is positive and one of which is negative.
A great deal of effort and energy is being devoted right now into making you only see the negative tail.
For instance, right now the alternative news community is being flooded with dire warnings of military action, martial law, and things like that. This is in an effort to get you to manifest only the negative tail.
The positive tail of this would be something like Drakes (the other guest speaker) been describing.
Clearly this is what we want, the negative tail is what we don't want, but don't let the fear mongering get to you, because what the fear mongering is doing is trying to force you to manifest only the negative tailed possibility. Same with if they get anything else off, they are going to try and convince you that they did something and got one passed us, when they have actually just been covering up for something we did, trying to spin it as a negative, so that you'll lose your trust and you'll shoot your friend, basically when the time comes.
So everything is two tailed, that's number one.

Number two.
As of Dec 21st 2012 we've been on an entirely new time line. The previous time lines which everybody all had the ability to look down, prophesy were made using these time lines and what not, these appear to be no longer valid.
Even in the case of beings that have traveled from what they thought was our future to this time period are discovering since 2012, that none of the things that they thought of as history are occurring, quite the way that they remember from their own history.
What this means is that fundamentally we are in an opportunity where our free will matters. The things we do the choices we make - matter. They matter like they have never mattered at any other time. This means that every little effort, that every single person does, whether it's a big thing or a little thing is important and has an effect. It means that there are no pre-determined futures, because we are building our own future, right now!
The other time lines that they had access to prior to Dec 21st 2012 all appear to be some kind of simulation. You can look at them, you can travel to them, but they are not going to be what we experience, plain and simple.
Point number three>
The onus is on each one of us as individuals, to act, to take control of our future by making our plans for the best possible scenario that we can imagine. What you think, what you believe, what you fear, these things have an impact on what we manifest. The number one thing that you need to try to keep aware of in this exercise we are going to do, and as we go through this, is DO NOT FEAR - see dangers but see them clear eyed and don't be convinced that they will come to pass. If some harmful thing does come to pass, hold on to the notion that they might have gotten some of it through but not the whole thing.

For instance you know everybody’s worried about these chips well I'll say one thing, in 2013 they were saying they were going to do it this year, in 2011 they were saying they were going to do it in 2013, so I'm not counting on those chips, but even if they manage to chip some of us, hold out to the notion that even if they have any success in chipping people, that it will only result in failure in the long run for them. Meaning that every time they chip someone it back fires. It doesn't work; they don’t get what they want. Right. Manifest their failure. It's kinda like the game of pretend on the school ground, in which you say (you and your friend are pretending to fight and he's like ..) Oh, I just threw a bomb at you, and your "like" - No you didn't! and he's "like" Yeh, I did! And you say "Fine - the bomb missed" ... it exploded safely off in nowhere in the sand pit, where it caused no problems. Just like that!

It's exactly the same principle.

I really, really can't emphasis the fact that there is no fate or destiny or predetermined path. We must make our own fate, our own destiny and our own future. Don't take what somebody else dished us, it's not necessary, we don't have to live that ... and other than that I really don't have a lot to say tonight.

[Dreamtimer]

So....who let the Draco off their planet(s) to go around stealing and enslaving? Are we worse than them? Is our potential worse than theirs?

I regularly witness immense growth and love amongst humans on this planet. According to your own words, Sam, you've changed and grown in beautiful ways. What is that worth? How does that count for the worth of humanity?

Does it make no difference? Should we be allowed to obliterate ourselves because of the few bad apples? If any large city in America was determined dangerous because of the bad parts of town, all of our cities would be quarantined. Or else the bad sections would. Should we do that?

[Joanna]

citsym, that was really beautiful (and poignant) to read, thank you.

About what Tanaath has said about all the old timelines dissolving on Dec 21, 2012, and us being on a new one: I would go a bit further, and say there are no timelines anymore...but that people are 'encouraged' and conditioned to keep projecting timelines (linear time) 'forward' to keep the whole energy of linear trajectories going. Because if people dropped their adherence to the idea/energy of linear time, and felt and perceived themselves purely as power-points of convergence, magnetizing everything they emit in their vibration, instantly (there is no time buffer anymore, except in the collective imagination) - at which moment they would decide to take full responsibility for everything they emit - then the higher frequency of Earth that already exists in peace, harmony, unity consciousness, would converge into this duality frequency and encompass it, and soften it, very fast.

If there's ever been a moment to drop attachments to the 'tale of two tails' (the polarity game), let go of all constructs of the 3D hologram, and align directly with Source, that moment is Now.
About fate and predetermination, my view is that there is an 'overall arc' within each spiral (dimension) of creation - and the overall arc right here right now is that there is a convergence/mergence happening between different frequency bands/densities on/of this planet and all life on it, including us - and how we complete that merge is up to us, individually and collectively. If we perceive/feel the loving ETs as part of the 'We' doing this shift/merge - that we're all doing it together, from our different states of awareness and being, as One collective, in the spirit of one huge, beautiful collaborative creation with this planet and all its life - then indeed, the chips are down and the bombs miss....and the convergence completes....

Meanwhile, wishing you the most happy Gardening!

[Jengelen]

Jengelen, what you say her is so very insightful, beautifully stated and your examples drive your points home. This resonates as truth to me. I think it would be a wonderful thread on it's own if you are willing and have the time

Thank you. I don't know where it comes from really. I don't speak that way at all and it reads as if some other wrote things at times to me. Perhaps thats why I have trouble accepting all the credit. Its like I hear it at times and just repeat it. Isn't that strange?

I see the earth probably a little more cautiously I guess. I don't want to use that word but its as good as any right now with our current discussion. Earth is like the ant colony living in and under the old roofing insulation and in between joints of wood in an old building. It has been the way it is since the last build job to what it is the day you tear into it to rebuild it all. I sometimes feel like that day nears. .

To the ants below, which in this tale is us, well of course when the big ole claw hammers come down they have their world disrupted by the big hands and clean out and wow it is a calamity! But to the person or creator doing the work, with the grand view of what they hope to gain it has some other agenda going on not necessarily in line with that of or even taking into consideration the lives of the ants. So the new roof and wood trim will look better like and like new better with thicker insulation and more rot resistant wood, and better water run off! Why its right up town when all that is added. The fact that the old had to be removed to do it is explained because it simply had to happen for it to be the way you wanted it to look ultimately. But no consideration at all to the lives of the critters there.

What survives of the ant colony, and some do survive don't they? Well, they all put their heads together and due to the situation trust between them once again is established. This will of course last for a good while as they struggle but then like with all past times after complacency sets in and restless folks stir things go negative one step at a time all over again as they no longer really need or rely on their neighbors as much so then thievery and assaults stir the home fronts. This takes place in all rebuilds or new cycles here. With every birth comes birth pains, and from this rotting stench of a world the new shoots all spout and begin to see the mess and eliminate it so good reproduces and grows learning to adapt to new wood and new insulation for a home stronger and ready to continue on.

Remember this when dealing with any of the creator beings or the grays or any of their various minions doing their work on earth, even these blue orbs. They all have their own vision, their own agenda and at least as long as you are having the organic experience in this vessel I doubt seriously if you will see eye to eye with theirs. We cannot always see the greater picture these beings maintain for how they see things. And even if we did we apparently are powerless to do anything about it which is all the more reason to just enjoy your life.

[Chester]

So....who let the Draco off their planet(s) to go around stealing and enslaving? Are we worse than them? Is our potential worse than theirs?

I regularly witness immense growth and love amongst humans on this planet. According to your own words, Sam, you've changed and grown in beautiful ways. What is that worth? How does that count for the worth of humanity?

Does it make no difference? Should we be allowed to obliterate ourselves because of the few bad apples? If any large city in America was determined dangerous because of the bad parts of town, all of our cities would be quarantined. Or else the bad sections would. Should we do that?

No one is stopping you from stopping the Draco leaving... I know I don't have the ability to do this.

I know lots of others who share your view too.

The Draco gave plenty of reasons too.

I don't understand why you ask what is humanity's worth. If you are meaning Earth born humanity? I still do not see how someone would be able to value their worth. I feel the human being (as a vessel for a ensouled spirit) is a wonderful vehicle. I also hope humanity of Earth survives and blossoms in part because of my own children, loved ones and their children. I expand that to all when I consider the potential. Its just my opinion that the Earth born humans have to get this done themselves and not (again) rely upon an outside savior. Note: I am simply expressing this within what I believe to be Earth human being's history which leads me to believe I understand the position Earth born human beings are in now. Hope this clears up any conclusions that may have been incorrectly drawn as to my opinion of "the human being" as well as the current crop of Earth born human beings.

As far as should we be allowed...

consider this lovely dilemma -

http://www.inquisitr.com/2196375/healthy-woman-die-doctor-assisted-euthanasia-suicidal-thoughts/

and here's a totally different example of someone who wants to die...

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/12/us/california-right-to-die-lawsuit/

what should "we" all do? Make the first one live against their will?

Allow the second one to end her life so she doesn't have to suffer?

So in the case of the Earth humanity... that some might look at as hell bent on either self destruction OR desiring to move out beyond our tiny planet and act in the same ways we do now upon our planet (as either wagers of war upon each other or as the rest... allowers) should we expect all intelligent races that might observe the situation here to assist us? Or... should we maybe allow Earth humans to either figure their own issues out and move beyond this pattern of behavior OR destroy ourselves?

My only point in the OP is that I can see an intelligent race saying... "We have helped enough and it appears this is no longer help, perhaps Earth humans need to figure things out for themselves."

I see this as a possibility. That was all and only the point I was hoping to make.

[Joanna]

Sam, I see it that the ETs are helping in innumerable ways, focused on holding the planet together and stabilizing it into higher and higher frequencies - while giving humanity the space to step up and sort its stuff out, as individuals and a collective, as much and for as long as possible, out of respect for us and regard for our potential to grow (fast), rather than stepping in as 'saviours'.
But they also have a responsibility to the wider galaxy/ies, and humans won't be allowed (far) off planet until our collective consciousness level has gone up a notch, and we feel, understand and love the wholeness, the unity, and perceive the consequences of every thought and act within that unity. Then we'll have more freedom of movement, because our allowing meets the greater allowing, in peace......
Utopian? Sure....but then, I've had enough of dystopias....and see that 'utopia' far, far more clearly than the old eat-or-be-eaten survival hologram........

[lcam88]

Sam, I see it that the ETs are helping in innumerable ways, focused on holding the planet together and stabilizing it into higher and higher frequencies - while giving humanity the space to step up and sort its stuff out, as individuals and a collective, as much and for as long as possible, out of respect for us and regard for our potential to grow (fast), rather than stepping in as 'saviours'.
But they also have a responsibility to the wider galaxy/ies, and humans won't be allowed (far) off planet until our collective consciousness level has gone up a notch, and we feel, understand and love the wholeness, the unity, and perceive the consequences of every thought and act within that unity. Then we'll have more freedom of movement, because our allowing meets the greater allowing, in peace......
Utopian? Sure....but then, I've had enough of dystopias....and see that 'utopia' far, far more clearly than the old eat-or-be-eaten survival hologram........

Allowed is not quite the right word, Joanna. I think the right work is "make", humans won't make it very far off... A clue as to why?

http://www.andersoninstitute.com/time-warped-fields.html

Time is one component of reality that may be "dragged" with a spinning mass or energy; we don't really know much about all it that, it's not quite intuitive to the science that has dedicated its efforts to exclude consciousness from "interfering" with results. We do know our mind and the way it works is intricately entwined with time.

And our reality is also based on the "dragging" done by our home planet; the frequencies we live by depend on the effects of the planet. I'm willing to venture that when we become required to detach ourselves from that baseline, either by venturing away from the earth's proximity, or even perhaps the sun's proximity, we will necessarily be exposed only to that which is the higher "notch". If we aren't familiar enough with it, we simply will go crazy in our self-induced delusions of nothingness and separation that we will lose all notion of who we actually are. Id suggest "the animal side" and then remind everyone that we are predators; our eyes are designed with depth perception in mind so that we may strike our prey with effectiveness and consistency.

So perhaps, yet again, it's not because off-worlders would permit us to venture very far or not, it's simply that we may not find it in ourselves to do so and survive. And actually, some of us (10% maybe) may be naturally aligned enough to survive the "notch-up" if it where forced in a drastic way upon us, but we also would have to survive the flailing of our kin who would lose all notion of who they where even as they may sit beside the potential survivors. Does anyone have access to a psychological evaluation of an astronaut? Is there a shroud of secrecy around aspects of their experience? Wonder why?

Here is an interesting except that sort of illustrates what I'm suggesting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_noA7-qY26A&t=5m55s

The link picks up at 5min and 55secs. In less than 30 seconds the revelation I think is important is revealed. The context I think is important is a conversation he is having with a Russian psychic and what this woman reveals to him. The rest of the video is worth watching as a whole but, perhaps divergent from the point I'm making here.

***

For a neat analogy to this issue of survival when "notch-ups" are forced, observations of bacteria cultures are neat. 10% of cultures are benign, 10% malignant, and 80% that follows the trend set by the other 20%. I made mention of it on another posting mentioning anti-bacterial soap.

And lastly, perhaps the alternative to this is to stay on earth, and undergo that same metamorphosis in a much more gradual way: I love the phrase from Star Wars, in answer to the question: What's in there?

"Only what you take with you."

That included guns, planes bombs and nuclear warheads. <shrug/> I still think it is all within our reaches.

[Shadowself]

Icam88...that is a very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.



A Practical Approach to Achieving Time Control

Practical time control and time travel requires significantly large energy levels, from some source, to operate effectively. To achieve time control we can attempt to generate this large energy level or, as an alternative, access and channel the energy already existing and inherent in natural processes and the basic makeup or fabric of spacetime surrounding our planet.

"Practical time control and time travel requires significantly large energy levels, from some source, to operate effectively...."

Something like Jupiter which contains oceans of "Liquid metallic hydrogen has low viscosity, like water, and it's a good electrical and thermal conductor,"?


Drag on time...now where have I seen this before? (post number 47 page 4 of my thread)

Very interesting article!

Edit to add:
Doh! I just read back and noticed you added that to my thread on post number 67. I totally missed it! Sorry Icam88! Cool article!

[lcam88]

Icam88...that is a very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.




"Practical time control and time travel requires significantly large energy levels, from some source, to operate effectively...."

Something like Jupiter which contains oceans of "Liquid metallic hydrogen has low viscosity, like water, and it's a good electrical and thermal conductor,"?


Drag on time...now where have I seen this before? (post number 47 page 4 of my thread)

Very interesting article!

Yes, I think I saw it there too. I even shared the link you quote from on your thread post number 67 on page 5.

The effect occurs on any spinning mass (all planets, the sun everything) or spinning energy. The experimenters at andersoninstitute use 12 lasers, an proprietary mixture of gases including a noble, and a frequency...

In terms of Jupiter being a power source for time dialation effects elsewhere, it is possible, but the means of transferring that energy would need to be artificial and would therefore be an implementation of some type of engineering.

[Shadowself]

Yes, I think I saw it there too. I even shared the link you quote from on your thread post number 67 on page 5.

The effect occurs on any spinning mass (all planets, the sun everything) or spinning energy. The experimenters at andersoninstitute use 12 lasers, an proprietary mixture of gases including a noble, and a frequency...

In terms of Jupiter being a power source for time dialation effects elsewhere, it is possible, but the means of transferring that energy would need to be artificial and would therefore be an implementation of some type of engineering.

Yeah you did...I totally missed it. Sorry....it was post number 67...I just saw it. I'll have to check out this site further....it seems right up my ally. Thanks!

Noting: lasers and crystals go hand in hand no? The "man made" test pyramid I described yesterday? (she says tongue in cheek) ;)

http://www.rp-photonics.com/laser_crystals.html

One of the things I was studying with that "group" was lasers and crystals for such an "experiment".

Back on topic now...Sorry Sam.

[blufire]

The term ‘Cabal’ entered the forum and alternative media scene a few years ago and has taken a life of its own. If you asked people to define who or what the Cabal are you would get forty eleven hundred different answers.

The term Illuminati has been around on the forums and alternative media much longer . . .. but the foundational meaning has been obliterated. As Dracon pointed out, one of the founding fathers of the Illuminati is Adam Weishaupt, but if one did their research on those founding fathers of the Illuminati and their history you would find that history bears no resemblance to who and what the Illuminti are ‘thought of’ today. Just like the term Cabal, if you asked people who and what the Illumniti are you would get many different answers and/or answers that bear no resemblance to this mysterious group.


I really appreciate this part of a post by Dreamtimer:


So....who let the Draco off their planet(s) to go around stealing and enslaving? Are we worse than them? Is our potential worse than theirs?


Sam if we apply human logic and reasoning and speculation to how we think Non-Earth Beings would judge and treat us and ultimately be the ones who would allow us to travel the stars wouldn’t these benevolent Non-Earth Beings who (in your reasoning) also judge other benevolent/malevolent Beings and restrict their ability to travel galactically?

So why were these evil Draco’s (of which I do not believe this whole theory and meme) allowed to leave their planet and travel the stars and (by current alternative media belief) allowed to influence and enslave Humans?



Why would any advanced benevolent non-Earthly race of beings wish to assist humans of Earth when over and over and over we see that from within the Earth human race emerges those who exploit the rest of humanity mercilessly, sociopathically demonstrating constant and consistent pathological lying where then measures are taken to rape the vulnerable while simultaneously going to extreme, relentless measures to protect their plundering using massive self-defensive campaigns that feature every Madison Avenue trick in the book?


In my opinion I am always amazed that we, in first world countries, judge the entire planet or even entire countries. If you logically think about it those who are plundering using massive self-defensive campaigns that feature every Madison Avenue trick in the book (in reality) affect very few people globally . . . . . they mostly scrap and fight among themselves . . . . and then there are those who (for some reason beyond me) want to enter the fray and join the ego driven fights.

The majority of humanity globally (including me) could give a flying rat’s behind what these self-centered egotistically supposedly 'wealthy' people do. And I most certainly believe that if these judgmental ‘benevolent’ Beings existed humanity would not be judged by these infinitesimally small amount of humans. These Beings are after all supposed to be really really smart and wise . . . . right Sam?

[Dracon]

Adam was not a founding father of the Illuminati. He is one of the founders of the name and meme attached to it. To be clear. The whole point of that was to associate a name with a hidden hand group who, people of the time, were already aware of to some extent. A psy op. Which is the same thing that has happened more recently with the term "Cabal". These terms have expanded over time and no longer resemble the original, because, people have and society has changed, so the meme has been adjusted to also fit with the current situations. Which is exactly what makes it a meme, as it was never the true name of any group. Today people use "Cabal" and "Illuminati" as different words for the same group often.

[AscensionQuest]

Adam was not a founding father of the Illuminati. He is one of the founders of the name and meme attached to it. To be clear. The whole point of that was to associate a name with a hidden hand group who, people of the time, were already aware of to some extent. A psy op. Which is the same thing that has happened more recently with the term "Cabal". These terms have expanded over time and no longer resemble the original, because, people have and society has changed, so the meme has been adjusted to also fit with the current situations. Which is exactly what makes it a meme, as it was never the true name of any group. Today people use "Cabal" and "Illuminati" as different words for the same group often.

Cabal = Group of Bankers

illuminati = Group of Billionaires

It makes sense for them to be in cahoots with each other.

The Cabal have been orchestrating wars for over 1,000 years ! (Population Control)

They desperately want to start World War III but have been stopped many times.

The latest attempt was March 16, 2015. Limited nuke war against Russia / BRICS. Stopped by Captain Heather Cole US Navy.

[Aragorn]

Cabal = Group of Bankers

illuminati = Group of Billionaires

It makes sense for them to be in cahoots with each other.

I'm afraid you are mistaken. Read Dracon's post -- which you quoted integrally -- again. It is exactly as he says. ;)

[AscensionQuest]

I agree with Corey ET.

The Cabal and illuminati are running into their Elitist Subterranean Cities in Brazil.

They plan to live like The Jetsons during the Nuremberg Trials 2.0 in Europe.

This time we know exactly where their hiding spot is. LOL

[lcam88]

I agree with Corey ET.

The Cabal and illuminati are running into their Elitist Subterranean Cities in Brazil.

They plan to live like The Jetsons during the Nuremberg Trials 2.0 in Europe.

This time we know exactly where their hiding spot is. LOL

Really? I live in Brazil.

Ok give me those GPS coordinates and I'll send you a picture if it is nearby. Let's see what there is to see.

[AscensionQuest]

Really? I live in Brazil.

Ok give me those GPS coordinates and I'll send you a picture if it is nearby. Let's see what there is to see.

Be careful. The Cabal has their own army and scout class spacecraft.

They will abduct you and turn you into a slave.

They have the technology to erase your memory and SWITCH you into a blank slate. Then they will feed you a plausible explanation.

- A new slave is born. -

[lcam88]

I'm not religious. But thanks anyway.

And I'm withdrawing my offer.

[blufire]

While I very much appreciate and agree largely with Dracons’ input, I feel I should add that the historical Illuminati was formed from Weishaupt’s ideals and he was the one who began this group. Weishaupt’s founding principles of the historical Illuminati were/are principles I can very much align with.

Below is a short excerpt from Wikipedia and much more can be found if one has the determination to extract the historical and original founding principles of the Illuminati and how this groups original concepts became distorted and maligned.

This group was real and historical and was not a psy-op meme.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati

Adam Weishaupt (1748-1830) founder of the Bavarian Illuminati, was a professor of Canon Law and Practical philosophy at the University of Ingolstadt. He was the only non-clerical professor at an institution run by Jesuits, whose order had been dissolved in 1773. The Jesuits of Ingolstadt, however, still retained the purse strings and some power at the University, which they continued to regard as their own. Constant attempts were made to frustrate and discredit non-clerical staff, especially when course material contained anything they regarded as liberal or Protestant. Weishaupt became deeply anti-clerical, resolving to spread the ideals of the Enlightenment (Aufklärung) through some sort of secret society of like-minded individuals.[3]

The Illuminati (plural of Latin illuminatus, "enlightened") is a name given to several groups, both real and fictitious. Historically, the name usually refers to the Bavarian Illuminati, an Enlightenment-era secret society founded on May 1, 1776. The society's goals were to oppose superstition, obscurantism, religious influence over public life and abuses of state power. "The order of the day," they wrote in their general statutes, "is to put an end to the machinations of the purveyors of injustice, to control them without dominating them."[1] The Illuminati—along with Freemasonry and other secret societies—were outlawed through Edict, by the Bavarian ruler, Charles Theodore, with the encouragement of the Roman Catholic Church, in 1784, 1785, 1787 and 1790.[2] In the several years following, the group was vilified by conservative and religious critics who claimed that they continued underground and were responsible for the French Revolution.

Also, from Wikipedia:


In subsequent use, "Illuminati" refers to various organisations which claim or are purported to have links to the original Bavarian Illuminati or similar secret societies, though these links are unsubstantiated. They are often alleged to conspire to control world affairs, by masterminding events and planting agents in government and corporations, in order to gain political power and influence and to establish a New World Order. Central to some of the most widely known and elaborate conspiracy theories, the Illuminati have been depicted as lurking in the shadows and pulling the strings and levers of power in dozens of novels, movies, television shows, comics, video games and music videos.


Above is what we have today . . . . . a fictitious created meme that covers a broad psy-op meme created largely by those professing to be ‘awake and aware’ and of a ‘higher consciousness’ than those they claim are sheep. The alternative media/forums/new age mind-set created this meme and those who are in the business of keeping us herded in chaotic misinformed directions reinforce this absurdity . . . .. . . . as shown by certain members posting in this thread.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Chester]

The term ‘Cabal’ entered the forum and alternative media scene a few years ago and has taken a life of its own. If you asked people to define who or what the Cabal are you would get forty eleven hundred different answers.

The term Illuminati has been around on the forums and alternative media much longer . . .. but the foundational meaning has been obliterated. As Dracon pointed out, one of the founding fathers of the Illuminati is Adam Weishaupt, but if one did their research on those founding fathers of the Illuminati and their history you would find that history bears no resemblance to who and what the Illuminti are ‘thought of’ today. Just like the term Cabal, if you asked people who and what the Illumniti are you would get many different answers and/or answers that bear no resemblance to this mysterious group.


I really appreciate this part of a post by Dreamtimer:



Sam if we apply human logic and reasoning and speculation to how we think Non-Earth Beings would judge and treat us and ultimately be the ones who would allow us to travel the stars wouldn’t these benevolent Non-Earth Beings who (in your reasoning) also judge other benevolent/malevolent Beings and restrict their ability to travel galactically?

So why were these evil Draco’s (of which I do not believe this whole theory and meme) allowed to leave their planet and travel the stars and (by current alternative media belief) allowed to influence and enslave Humans?




In my opinion I am always amazed that we, in first world countries, judge the entire planet or even entire countries. If you logically think about it those who are plundering using massive self-defensive campaigns that feature every Madison Avenue trick in the book (in reality) affect very few people globally . . . . . they mostly scrap and fight among themselves . . . . and then there are those who (for some reason beyond me) want to enter the fray and join the ego driven fights.

The majority of humanity globally (including me) could give a flying rat’s behind what these self-centered egotistically supposedly 'wealthy' people do. And I most certainly believe that if these judgmental ‘benevolent’ Beings existed humanity would not be judged by these infinitesimally small amount of humans. These Beings are after all supposed to be really really smart and wise . . . . right Sam?

Its impossible to have a response in this type of format... as we are clearly not on the same page. The only way I could attempt a conversation is in a live format. I would be happy to do this on Skype. PM me if you wish to do this. This invitation is extended as well to Dreamtimer.

[Chester]

I agree with Corey ET.

The Cabal and illuminati are running into their Elitist Subterranean Cities in Brazil.

They plan to live like The Jetsons during the Nuremberg Trials 2.0 in Europe.

This time we know exactly where their hiding spot is. LOL

I once created a thread that had similar types of written expressions (though more elaborate) and my thread was moved to "Off Topic" for some odd reason. But this is good stuff. Do you write for some of these professionals? If not... you should consider it... your stuff's good. Thanks AQ.

[modwiz]

While I very much appreciate and agree largely with Dracons’ input, I feel I should add that the historical Illuminati was formed from Weishaupt’s ideals and he was the one who began this group. Weishaupt’s founding principles of the historical Illuminati were/are principles I can very much align with.

Below is a short excerpt from Wikipedia and much more can be found if one has the determination to extract the historical and original founding principles of the Illuminati and how this groups original concepts became distorted and maligned.

This group was real and historical and was not a psy-op meme.




Also, from Wikipedia:




Above is what we have today . . . . . a fictitious created meme that covers a broad psy-op meme created largely by those professing to be ‘awake and aware’ and of a ‘higher consciousness’ than those they claim are sheep. The alternative media/forums/new age mind-set created this meme and those who are in the business of keeping us herded in chaotic misinformed directions reinforce this absurdity . . . .. . . . as shown by certain members posting in this thread.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,



Agreed. The new agers get quite goofy. Some like it in Disneyland.

[modwiz]

While I very much appreciate and agree largely with Dracons’ input, I feel I should add that the historical Illuminati was formed from Weishaupt’s ideals and he was the one who began this group. Weishaupt’s founding principles of the historical Illuminati were/are principles I can very much align with.

Below is a short excerpt from Wikipedia and much more can be found if one has the determination to extract the historical and original founding principles of the Illuminati and how this groups original concepts became distorted and maligned.

This group was real and historical and was not a psy-op meme.




Also, from Wikipedia:




Above is what we have today . . . . . a fictitious created meme that covers a broad psy-op meme created largely by those professing to be ‘awake and aware’ and of a ‘higher consciousness’ than those they claim are sheep. The alternative media/forums/new age mind-set created this meme and those who are in the business of keeping us herded in chaotic misinformed directions reinforce this absurdity . . . .. . . . as shown by certain members posting in this thread.


,,,,,,,,,,,,,



Agreed. The new agers get quite goofy. Some like it in Disneyland.

[blufire]

Hey Sam . . .thanks for the invite to Skype, but I have very limited access and internet bandwidth. I live in a very secluded and rugged part of the Appalachians where even cell phone towers struggle to reach.

This can be very inconvenient at times in this very technical world we now live, but I love the self-reliant /sustainable life I am living and would never go back to the rat race.

I agree we are on very different pages or lines of thought . . . . . I find myself very often nowadays in this position.

The last few years when I tackle a line of thought, information or philosophy I will take it all the way back to the most basic, neutral, balanced place and build from there. It’s amazing and refreshing what you can clearly see and understand when you cut all the fluff and nonsense away.

I hope you will try to communicate your thoughts on this thread because I feel this would be beneficial for many instead of just you and me.

[Joanna]

Allowed is not quite the right word, Joanna. I think the right work is "make", humans won't make it very far off... A clue as to why?

http://www.andersoninstitute.com/time-warped-fields.html

Time is one component of reality that may be "dragged" with a spinning mass or energy; we don't really know much about all it that, it's not quite intuitive to the science that has dedicated its efforts to exclude consciousness from "interfering" with results. We do know our mind and the way it works is intricately entwined with time.

And our reality is also based on the "dragging" done by our home planet; the frequencies we live by depend on the effects of the planet. I'm willing to venture that when we become required to detach ourselves from that baseline, either by venturing away from the earth's proximity, or even perhaps the sun's proximity, we will necessarily be exposed only to that which is the higher "notch". If we aren't familiar enough with it, we simply will go crazy in our self-induced delusions of nothingness and separation that we will lose all notion of who we actually are. Id suggest "the animal side" and then remind everyone that we are predators; our eyes are designed with depth perception in mind so that we may strike our prey with effectiveness and consistency.

So perhaps, yet again, it's not because off-worlders would permit us to venture very far or not, it's simply that we may not find it in ourselves to do so and survive. And actually, some of us (10% maybe) may be naturally aligned enough to survive the "notch-up" if it where forced in a drastic way upon us, but we also would have to survive the flailing of our kin who would lose all notion of who they where even as they may sit beside the potential survivors. Does anyone have access to a psychological evaluation of an astronaut? Is there a shroud of secrecy around aspects of their experience? Wonder why?

Here is an interesting except that sort of illustrates what I'm suggesting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_noA7-qY26A&t=5m55s

The link picks up at 5min and 55secs. In less than 30 seconds the revelation I think is important is revealed. The context I think is important is a conversation he is having with a Russian psychic and what this woman reveals to him. The rest of the video is worth watching as a whole but, perhaps divergent from the point I'm making here.

***

For a neat analogy to this issue of survival when "notch-ups" are forced, observations of bacteria cultures are neat. 10% of cultures are benign, 10% malignant, and 80% that follows the trend set by the other 20%. I made mention of it on another posting mentioning anti-bacterial soap.

And lastly, perhaps the alternative to this is to stay on earth, and undergo that same metamorphosis in a much more gradual way: I love the phrase from Star Wars, in answer to the question: What's in there?

"Only what you take with you."

That included guns, planes bombs and nuclear warheads. <shrug/> I still think it is all within our reaches.

Well, I don't see 'allowed' as a right or wrong word, lcam88....just as (my) perception/understanding of the situation here currently...

While it is focused/entrained into 3-4D, the mind is indeed entwined with time, and structures its reality by pinning it to 'time'. That does not mean 'mind' is inherently subject to time or entwined with it. In my experience, it isn't.
Higher dimensional ships bend time-space very gracefully when they shift/phase into slower frequency bands - or at least, so as to appear in those bands. I'm not speaking here of the type of craft back-engineered on Earth, which are not fifth dimensional or above, and would have to use some type of substantial 'energy', which implies the use of an energetic 'resource' (even if it's a fourth dimensional zero point technology). Higher D ships are not 'running on' an energy in physical terms of understanding; they're 'powered' by consciousness merged with Source flow, which is infinite and endlessly self/All perpetuating. The moments when you can see ships affecting the 3D substance level is when they 'phase down' through 4D. Many times, I've seen that just under or behind the 'point' where they literally fold time and space, clouds will get suctioned up towards the fold/bend, meaning it creates a vacuum in 3D.
As in this one, over my house 2013 - the ship folded time-space where you can see a faint 'bow' upper right...and the clouds beneath sucked up toward it....
https://heartstardotorg.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/dscf0658sc-copy.jpg?w=423&h=350
Or if a ship phases in a cloud bank (they also bend ultraviolet light around them), the clouds will spiral up and disappear, leaving a perfect disc-shaped hole.
https://heartstardotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/dscf6418-copy-copy.jpg?w=300&h=242
As regards staying on Earth and making a more gradual metamorphosis here, the metamorphosis has to happen here before heading off-planet, because that's how we as a race evolve into self-responsibility, not by nicking off while the planetary biosphere collapses - that is not growth, or maturity. However, 'gradual' is not something we have the luxury of 'time' for, with 7 billion and rising souls here, still in the caterpillar stage of eat-eat-eat into fatal consumption levels. We're going to have to butterfly fast into sippers of nectar, and the hold of the control factions dismantled (the two are intertwined), for the metamorphosis to reach completion..... ;)

[lcam88]

Well, I don't see 'allowed' as a right or wrong word, lcam88....just as (my) perception/understanding of the situation here currently...

While it is focused/entrained into 3-4D, the mind is indeed entwined with time, and structures its reality by pinning it to 'time'. That does not mean 'mind' is inherently subject to time or entwined with it. In my experience, it isn't.


Or perhaps 5D mind: sight, sound, smell, taste and touch being the dimension?

I think you are special: entwined, yes but you are perhaps less dependent than others. There is nothing wrong with being entwined with time and earth. It is who I am proud to be (if pride was something I cared about [which I do it seems]) and I will never fault myself for the disposition I may find in my mist, even if it was my own making.

And yes, absolutely your experience, and as precious as you are.



Higher dimensional ships bend time-space very gracefully when they shift/phase into slower frequency bands - or at least, so as to appear in those bands. I'm not speaking here of the type of craft back-engineered on Earth, which are not fifth dimensional or above, and would have to use some type of substantial 'energy', which implies the use of an energetic 'resource' (even if it's a fourth dimensional zero point technology).


That's interesting. For me to otherwise try and add perspective on this is pointless because the most advanced and graceful flying machine I've witnessed is known as a Vulture. Those birds can fly without flapping their wings; deep V shaped wings exploit every current of air to provide lift. Very graceful if you think about it.

I don't know anything about higher dimensional ships except to suppose their operation is based on measurements or manipulations of energy beyond what our experience suggests is natural. And I can speculate much less about off-world engineering. I will say though, perhaps it's possible to see vulture flight as made possible by "higher-dimensions" in that the brain is certainly "plugged" into the matrix of the universe; you can likely attribute their flight capabilities to as many dimensions as you wish to define. ::shrug::



Higher D ships are not 'running on' an energy in physical terms of understanding; they're 'powered' by consciousness merged with Source flow, which is infinite and endlessly self/All perpetuating. The moments when you can see ships affecting the 3D substance level is when they 'phase down' through 4D. Many times, I've seen that just under or behind the 'point' where they literally fold time and space, clouds will get suctioned up towards the fold/bend, meaning it creates a vacuum in 3D.

I am very very curious about the energetics you describe. It seems traveling on one of these ships is to experience at least 4D of motion, the standard right <=> left, up <=> down, front<=>back, as well as energetically to permit shifts in "phase". If off-world technology exists to simulate the baseline energetics our planet creates for us, that would be part of an environmental control system that would also provides, water, air and food so our life-signs can remain in equilibrium. A type of reality bubble if you will. That is a very curious idea to me, suddenly.



As in this one, over my house 2013 - the ship folded time-space where you can see a faint 'bow' upper right...and the clouds beneath sucked up toward it....
https://heartstardotorg.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/dscf0658sc-copy.jpg?w=423&h=350
Or if a ship phases in a cloud bank (they also bend ultraviolet light around them), the clouds will spiral up and disappear, leaving a perfect disc-shaped hole.
https://heartstardotorg.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/dscf6418-copy-copy.jpg?w=300&h=242

Nice images. You did notice the touch of purple/violet at about 1 o-clock in the first one. You are sure that is not a lens effect or otherwise explained by something else I presume. Very nice images.


As regards staying on Earth and making a more gradual metamorphosis here, the metamorphosis has to happen here before heading off-planet, because that's how we as a race evolve into self-responsibility, not by nicking off while the planetary biosphere collapses - that is not growth, or maturity. However, 'gradual' is not something we have the luxury of 'time' for, with 7 billion and rising souls here, still in the caterpillar stage of eat-eat-eat into fatal consumption levels. We're going to have to butterfly fast into sippers of nectar, and the hold of the control factions dismantled (the two are intertwined), for the metamorphosis to reach completion..... ;)

My original post was actually aimed at dismantling this idea that off-worlders would willfully imposing some type of restriction, the word "allows" carries such an implication. My point is exactly on that and actually just addressing that; even if we where to climb into one of our conventional rocket ships and take the 38 couple minimum seed colony scientists think is required for continuation of the human race, take that select group and move away from earth, the physics of our experience will cause psychological manifestations. I think nasa and others already know and work to suppress this info. I go so far as to suggest is relates to the "frame dragging" phenomena. As such, if that group survives they will never be the same again, and if they don't there was never any need to impose a "quarantine".

Furthermore, we see psychological manifestations even on earth. Psychology is not a science at all but imagine for one moment that there is something based in reality that causes murder, rape, pillaging, and psychopathic behavior, and that the actual cause of it is being suppressed. Psychologists cannot appeal to a science in their explanations because of this suppression; they have no choice but to appeal to religion, or that basic belief of something even if invented. My contention is to suggest that this gradual metamorphosis continues to show the psychosis that may appear as gradual "notch-ups" are occurring in this environment, as it undergoes a type of quickening.

In that context, by the time we overcome the obstacles required to "walk amongst the stars" if there where an issue of permission (which I contend there isn't) we would have become something new, the butterfly, beings closer to the light and permission would obviously be granted. There was never any need to impose such restrictions because the sick will fade away as part of the way nature works all by itself.

In that sense, part of the cure or growth to becoming nectar sippers perhaps requires a recognition by everyone, that factional control is indeed as unnecessary as it is irrelevant for the more evolved beings. And even then it may continue to exist voluntarily. But in the mean time, it stands as what it is, a type of yoke required so that a few may benefit from the masses.

Lastly, to actually overcome that obstacle, we only need to see the lessons feudalism taught us. At the time, people joined with the local lords for protection (or so it was said, it could also be said they joined to avoid persecution). But it was actually their participation in standing armies commanded by the lords that offered protection to the lords, and not necessarily to the people, (or that people where willing to carry out the lords' commands to persecute their kin in exchange for the shilling). If people where to abandon those lords, the lords would become powerless; the key that was always missing throughout history was how to do that. How do we notice we don't actually need the carrot offered at the end of a stick?

[blufire]

Higher dimensional ships bend time-space very gracefully when they shift/phase into slower frequency bands - or at least, so as to appear in those bands. I'm not speaking here of the type of craft back-engineered on Earth, which are not fifth dimensional or above, and would have to use some type of substantial 'energy', which implies the use of an energetic 'resource' (even if it's a fourth dimensional zero point technology). Higher D ships are not 'running on' an energy in physical terms of understanding; they're 'powered' by consciousness merged with Source flow, which is infinite and endlessly self/All perpetuating. The moments when you can see ships affecting the 3D substance level is when they 'phase down' through 4D. Many times, I've seen that just under or behind the 'point' where they literally fold time and space, clouds will get suctioned up towards the fold/bend, meaning it creates a vacuum in 3D.


Joanna . . . . . how do you ‘know’ this? You speak of these very detailed things as if it were an undeniable fact and truth. What are your sources? Is this info you have picked up through reading various books or websites?

I have to say when I read information like this (or like Corey/goodet/Simon Parks) I almost immediately dismiss it because it is so incredibly detailed and presumably no room for denial or speculation. It is literally (too me) like a wonderful sci-fi story.

I have watched over the years information like this literally snowball through the websites/forums/books/videos until it is presented as undeniable and factual. People take bits of info that is attractive to them from this website and that forum and add their thoughts and it just grows from there and seemingly becomes ‘truth’.

I think people today spend way too much time on the computer and cell phones and not nearly enough time actually outside and experiencing reality.

If I could be ruler for a day I would pass an edict that everyone has to live 7 years in the wilderness in a very small group without any technology and in very humble shelters and learn to be self-reliant and sustainable while learning to be a part of a group of which your life literally depends.

Mother Nature is a very excellent teacher.

[Chester]

Hey Sam . . .thanks for the invite to Skype, but I have very limited access and internet bandwidth. I live in a very secluded and rugged part of the Appalachians where even cell phone towers struggle to reach.

This can be very inconvenient at times in this very technical world we now live, but I love the self-reliant /sustainable life I am living and would never go back to the rat race.

I agree we are on very different pages or lines of thought . . . . . I find myself very often nowadays in this position.

The last few years when I tackle a line of thought, information or philosophy I will take it all the way back to the most basic, neutral, balanced place and build from there. It’s amazing and refreshing what you can clearly see and understand when you cut all the fluff and nonsense away.

I hope you will try to communicate your thoughts on this thread because I feel this would be beneficial for many instead of just you and me.

I realized that we could likely resolve what appears to be differences (which may actually only be differences in interpretation of the words and the intended meanings) quickly via an actual interactive (voice if possible) conversation. I desire always to have good relationships with everyone as best as possible. There are few exceptions yet sadly... there are.

Anyways... same with Dreamtimer. I really believe we could find the common ground and from there share our views which may diverge, but do so in a mutually respectful way.

I offer this with anyone who truly cares about our common situation on Earth today and shows a desire for this situation to be improved.

The problem that came forth on the thread was the words I used (which may have been inadequate) were interpreted and/or re-represented incorrectly. I already attempted to clarify yet I saw this continued so there's no possibility that I would go further in this thread. It is possible some readers understood my points and perhaps others did not. I am happy now to move on to other matters and I have but I hope the thread continues regardless as I make odds high my points, if understood and then incorporated in one's foundational world view (or that they raise an already established component of one's world view) then I accomplished my goal in the posts I made in this thread.

Best to all and see ya'll around TOT albeit elsewhere.

[Joanna]

lcam88, re the photo, yes I'm aware it can be read as a lens flare, just chose this one as an example of the 'cloud vacuuming' or pulling, meaning when they shift dimensions, it does have an effect on this physical/material one...

No more special than you or anyone, but relating to time and 'dimensions' from a consciously multidimensional view-point, as a consciously 'Source aligned' point of convergence.
Of course, there's nothing 'wrong' with being 'entwined with time and Earth.' Just be aware that from whatever dimension we are (currently) focusing our experience of self through, we are seeing/feeling in one dimension lower ie: When we 'be' in 3D, we 'see' in 2D (we can see a tree from the front, then walk around it and view it from the back, but can't see the entire tree as a spatial 3D object all at once) and 2D is planar/linear, hence the persistence of/attachment to structuring our sense of the real in and with linear time (timelines). So, from 4D, the dimension of the 'hypercube', you can 'see' in 3D (the whole tree at once, without walking around it, it's all visible). In 5D, you can see the whole hypercube (space within a space within a space/time within a time within a time etc) simultaneously....so say, from the point of view of a 5D being on a ship above Earth, you would see inside and around every object on the planet, and inside and around the whole planet itself, simultaneously, just depending on your moment of focus. In 6D, you see in 5D, the hypercube exponentially enfolded/unfolded in the infinite unity field, you would see the whole 'lattice' of energies moving, clustering, flowing, from all directions....hence people speak of the 5D light-grid of Gaia. That's what they are referring to.
Okay, this is incredibly difficult to get into 3D words, in other than just a 'shell of an idea', as is the energy powering 5D+ships, so will leave it here.....

Perhaps see the 'allowing' like this: there is no 'us and them' from higher dimensional viewing/feeling, just Love. In that Love is an agreement made by 'all of us', whether focused here into 3D forms, 4D, 5D or other dimensions, as One vast soul family, all unified at the core no matter what energies of 'separation' are being played out on some frequency bands...that agreement is not based in 'some controlling others' or permitting others this and that, but based in a unified 'knowing' of what it takes to get a planet back into higher frequencies when it's been adrift on an outer spiral for a while, having a certain experience.....

[Joanna]

Joanna . . . . . how do you ‘know’ this? You speak of these very detailed things as if it were an undeniable fact and truth. What are your sources? Is this info you have picked up through reading various books or websites?

I have to say when I read information like this (or like Corey/goodet/Simon Parks) I almost immediately dismiss it because it is so incredibly detailed and presumably no room for denial or speculation. It is literally (too me) like a wonderful sci-fi story.

I have watched over the years information like this literally snowball through the websites/forums/books/videos until it is presented as undeniable and factual. People take bits of info that is attractive to them from this website and that forum and add their thoughts and it just grows from there and seemingly becomes ‘truth’.

I think people today spend way too much time on the computer and cell phones and not nearly enough time actually outside and experiencing reality.

If I could be ruler for a day I would pass an edict that everyone has to live 7 years in the wilderness in a very small group without any technology and in very humble shelters and learn to be self-reliant and sustainable while learning to be a part of a group of which your life literally depends.

Mother Nature is a very excellent teacher.

Hello Foxfire, valid questions/observations...will attempt to answer.
Firstly, I preface my words with 'from my perspective' or 'from my experience' etc, because like everyone, I am growing, and my awareness adjusting, refining, fine-tuning, shifting, along the way. I don't read very much, have a TV, or use a cell phone (we live in a dip between hills with no mobile reception. I don't mind being 'under the radar', lol...but my son has to walk outside and up the hill to use his phone). I haven't frequented forums much, as for the last few years my focus has been on stabilizing my core/inner source connection, clearing old confining energies, and keeping my connection with star people/family and higher dimensional aspects of 'me' as clear and uninfluenced as possible. I'm always vigilant, after a very sudden 'wake up' to ET presence 4 years ago.

My slightly unusual sense of/relationship to 'time' maybe stems from being born on a tiny island which no human being set foot on until the 1930s (because it's almost entirely cliff-faced, with huge swells up to 30 metres). From the 1950s, the island was mined for phosphate for four decades until there was nothing left, then a casino/resort was built to draw rich gamblers and holidaymakers from Indonesia (360kms north). The casino failed, and the Australian govt opened a detention centre for asylum seekers there, and shipped refugees there, including children, into deprivation and misery. When I was born, in the 1960s, there was one policeman on the island, now there are 100. The apartheid type living situation of wealthy (ruling) white people living on the coast, Malay and Chinese 'imported workers' separated in different townships; the environmental desecration of a pristine fragile paradise in a few decades; so much plastic rubbish built up on the island's only beach that hatching baby turtles die before they can reach the sea; an invasion of flame ants on ships attacking the unique and defenceless land crab population, all for money and resources, is a perfect microcosm of human domination of the whole planet, that happened in an extremely compressed timeframe of less than a century. Though I haven't been there for a long while, I love the island, and hold it in light every day, as with the Earth, breathe deep and relax the controlling timelines away.....

I see/feel 'Mother Nature' not so much as a teacher, as a sister, greatly loved, heart to heart all the 'time'. I only ever speak from my own direct experiences, knowing, and memories...which happens to include Mu/Lemuria...I do recall an age when Earth was in higher frequencies than this current one, before the lifestream grew more dense, and animals tore at other animals. Of course, I could be just another daft New Ager sitting in fairy rings, talking with angels and gods, while thinking they're ETs. LOL.
Not here to 'convince' you of anything, just share from my experience/knowing, of what is possible for all, from my view point, depending on what people want, individually and collectively....
I go outdoors a lot, in all weather, including thunderstorms...some of my best/clearest ship sightings have been during storms....
As I write, the father of a little clan of Splendid Fairy Blue Wrens who lives in the garden is just hopping past the window, in his feather suit of iridescent deep blue...and it occurs to me you, as a Nature lover, may enjoy this post (http://heartstar.org/2015/04/28/blue-birds-of-happiness/). :love:

[lcam88]

lcam88, re the photo, yes I'm aware it can be read as a lens flare, just chose this one as an example of the 'cloud vacuuming' or pulling, meaning when they shift dimensions, it does have an effect on this physical/material one...


I didn't necessarily read it as a flare, but it is quite curious either way. Flares may not be as arbitrary as some people think they are.



No more special than you or anyone, but relating to time and 'dimensions' from a consciously multidimensional view-point, as a consciously 'Source aligned' point of convergence.


Indeed, no more special. But absolutely and completely special all the same. Without such a view, it is easy for some people to fall into a mindset of feeling or acting inferior.



Of course, there's nothing 'wrong' with being 'entwined with time and Earth.' Just be aware that from whatever dimension we are (currently) focusing our experience of self through, we are seeing/feeling in one dimension lower ie: When we 'be' in 3D, we 'see' in 2D (we can see a tree from the front, then walk around it and view it from the back, but can't see the entire tree as a spatial 3D object all at once) and 2D is planar/linear, hence the persistence of/attachment to structuring our sense of the real in and with linear time (timelines). So, from 4D, the dimension of the 'hypercube', you can 'see' in 3D (the whole tree at once, without walking around it, it's all visible). In 5D, you can see the whole hypercube (space within a space within a space/time within a time within a time etc) simultaneously....so say, from the point of view of a 5D being on a ship above Earth, you would see inside and around every object on the planet, and inside and around the whole planet itself, simultaneously, just depending on your moment of focus. In 6D, you see in 5D, the hypercube exponentially enfolded/unfolded in the infinite unity field, you would see the whole 'lattice' of energies moving, clustering, flowing, from all directions....hence people speak of the 5D light-grid of Gaia. That's what they are referring to.
Okay, this is incredibly difficult to get into 3D words, in other than just a 'shell of an idea', as is the energy powering 5D+ships, so will leave it here.....

I know what you are saying, regardless of the number of dimensions (n), you need to be D(n+1) to see or put D(n) in perspective.

If you consider we live in D(4), we do have some D(5) capabilities; For instance, we know that if we pull the dogs tail, he is likely to use his teeth. And then, in a way, who choose the reality we would like to experience. Sometimes accidents happen, but nobody is completely clairvoyant.



Perhaps see the 'allowing' like this: there is no 'us and them' from higher dimensional viewing/feeling, just Love. In that Love is an agreement made by 'all of us', whether focused here into 3D forms, 4D, 5D or other dimensions, as One vast soul family, all unified at the core no matter what energies of 'separation' are being played out on some frequency bands...that agreement is not based in 'some controlling others' or permitting others this and that, but based in a unified 'knowing' of what it takes to get a planet back into higher frequencies when it's been adrift on an outer spiral for a while, having a certain experience.....

:) I see what you mean. You are being pragmatic about it, rather than hypothetical as I was being.

I have a question for contemplations of yours: How do you know the "vast soul family", composed by 'all of us', or even all of human-kind, is not perfectly positioned exactly where it needs to be? Why hold on to this belief (or faith) that we are astray of where our design/nature would intend us to be? (ref absolutely special above for context).

I would like to suggest a notion regarding the above questions. Love does not reject. Perhaps that is where the true magnificence lays.

[Joanna]

I have a question for contemplations of yours: How do you know the "vast soul family", composed by 'all of us', or even all of human-kind, is not perfectly positioned exactly where it needs to be? Why hold on to this belief (or faith) that we are astray of where our design/nature would intend us to be?

Contemplating...: 'Adrift' is not quite the same as 'astray'. Well, let us say, in this hypothesis of the vast soul family, which is multidimensional in nature, all polarities are encompassed, and within that encompassing that has neither border nor end, that which is adrift (or even astray) is simultaneously perfectly positioned, exactly where it needs to be in every 'Now' moment....

I would like to suggest a notion regarding the above questions. Love does not reject. Perhaps that is where the true magnificence lays.

"Love does not reject." A deep and beautiful statement, my friend - and deeply appropriate to Sam's original question in this thread....

[lcam88]

That is really really good!


...exactly where it needs to be in every 'Now' moment....

... and I am speechless. I certainly can't and won't expand on perfection. I'd love this to continue with your continuation.

[Dreamtimer]

Joanna, I just love the fact that it's blue wrens that paid you a visit. My favorite blue beauty here is the indigo bunting. Gorgeous. (perhaps we need a bird emojie here?):ttr:

I'd like to second your statement about love. I taught my son that love was the most powerful thing in the world. It wasn't a struggle. He naturally understood. We were very close as he was growing up and many were sure he'd 'never move out of the house'. He's now on the other side of the country with a beautiful, smart girlfriend and my biggest woe is how little I get to see him.

[Joanna]

That is really really good!



... and I am speechless. I certainly can't and won't expand on perfection. I'd love this to continue with your continuation.

The thing about 'perfection' is it is always expanding, lcam88. That 'perfect ratio', the Golden Mean/Phi/Fibonacci Sequence etc, never ends, wherever Love IS...and as you said, Love does not reject.... :)

[Joanna]

Joanna, I just love the fact that it's blue wrens that paid you a visit. My favorite blue beauty here is the indigo bunting. Gorgeous. (perhaps we need a bird emojie here?):ttr:

I'd like to second your statement about love. I taught my son that love was the most powerful thing in the world. It wasn't a struggle. He naturally understood. We were very close as he was growing up and many were sure he'd 'never move out of the house'. He's now on the other side of the country with a beautiful, smart girlfriend and my biggest woe is how little I get to see him.

Haha, yes to bird emojis. ;)
That's really beautiful about your son, and his love-wise Mum. Perhaps he/they won't always be on the other side of the country....
What my son shows me is that where we pour our love, fearlessly, more love comes. He loves playing the piano, and has a passion for Rachmaninov's music. The biggest orb I've ever seen appeared above his head one night while he was playing, a pale pink colour, and multiple orbs on other occasions. For a decade now, the 'right' person (teacher, piano technician etc) will appear at the perfect time for him. Last year, an old friend of the family suddenly offered him his piano, a beautiful old American Steinway he'd brought out to Australia from North Carolina. A year earlier, my son had said one day he wished he could play an American Steinway...and I can tell you, there aren't many of them in Perth....so my child has been showing me the way the universe 'arranges by design' around Love, when you dream and have the faith to release your energy (joy). Love calls love, in whatever form is 'perfect' for the occasion - wrens, buntings, piano teachers, a girlfriend, ETs - and if you taught your son that, you gave him the greatest gift. :)

[Dreamtimer]

Love Rachmaninoff!! Now you've got me wanting to go back to the piano. That's something I've been thinking about but not doing. I played piano through college (lessons and recitals).

[Joanna]

love rachmaninoff!! Now you've got me wanting to go back to the piano. That's something i've been thinking about but not doing. I played piano through college (lessons and recitals).

((( :love: )))