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Gemma
11th April 2015, 12:09
Re: Eelco's thread "WHAT IS CONSCIOUSNESS"

I have posted the Lyricus Discourse 3 here as it was too long for me to attach to my post in Eelco's thread.
Cheers :)

Student: Is there a technique to gain knowledge of God?

Teacher: What God do you speak of?

Student: The one and only source of all.

Teacher: No.

Student: Why then are there some who seem blessed with the knowledge of God, and some that seem completely ignorant of his presence and value? Surely those who are enlightened discovered a technique to secure their knowledge.

Teacher: There are no techniques. This is the great fallacy that has swept across the universe of sentient beings. We persist in our belief that there is a formula or ritual or teacher that can bring us enlightenment – or the knowledge of God.

Student: If there is no technique or teacher, then why does all of this exist? Why do you, my teacher, sit before me? Or why are there books and learned masters here, in this instructional setting? Are you telling me they’re all worthless?

Teacher: When there are questions there are answers waiting to be heard. All of this exists for the questions of people such as you. If these questions did not exist, this would not exist.

Student: But what’s the point if the answers are not bringing me closer to the knowledge of God?

Teacher: Why doesn’t the knowledge of destruction lay in the hands of the many instead of the hands of the few?

Student: What do you mean?

Teacher: Why is the knowledge of how to destroy humankind – on a mass level – so carefully safeguarded?

Student: You’re talking about weapons of mass destruction?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Naturally the technology is so destructive it needs to be managed and controlled by responsible governments.

Teacher: Why is it controlled?

Student: If it were in the power of any one person to destroy the lives of many, he or she might do so if they became sick of mind.

Teacher: Is the knowledge of mass destruction the opposite of the knowledge of mass enlightenment?

Student: I don’t know.

Teacher: What if you were given the power to enlighten the masses of humanity or destroy humanity? Would you not be the most powerful person on earth?

Student: I can’t imagine how I could be more powerful.

Teacher: How would you choose to wield your power?

Student: I suppose I’d have to have many advisors helping me to make the right decisions in order to build a great society that was rich in culture and learned citizens.

Teacher: What if the citizens that you ruled rebelled? What if they chose to be independent of your power? What would you do then?

Student: But if I had the power to enlighten them, why would they rebel? They would be enlightened and, as a result, they would choose to live harmoniously.

Teacher: But some might not want to be enlightened. Perhaps they feel that they know what is best for their development and would resist an outside source, no matter how benevolent and wise.

Student: Then I would let them have their own way.

Teacher: Even if they killed themselves and behaved in decadence?

Student: I would try to teach them how to behave properly so they would learn to live harmoniously.

Teacher: Do you think they would listen?

Student: If they didn’t, I’d place the good and respectful people separate from those that were warring and cruel.

Teacher: I see. So you would divide your citizens into two groups?

Student: It would be the only way to bring harmony to some, if it couldn’t be brought to all.

Teacher: And if the warring and cruel citizens ultimately had children that desired to live in harmony, what would happen then?

Student: They would only need to ask and they could rejoin the society.

Teacher: So the citizens of your society would accept them without any problem and confer upon them the same social benefits that they themselves enjoy?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: And if they didn’t?

Student: I would have to order it – make it a law – I suppose. But again, if I had the power to enlighten my citizens, they surely would forgive those that were led astray by their parents, and let them re-enter the broader society.

Teacher: And what would be the result if one of these new citizens murdered someone within your enlightened society?

Student: They would be expelled and punished.

Teacher: Not enlightened?

Student: I would assume they were not able to be enlightened.

Teacher: So your power to enlighten was not perfect.

Student: I guess not.

Teacher: And what if the decadent society decided that the enlightened society should be conquered?

Student: Why would they attack if they knew I had the power to annihilate them?

Teacher: Perhaps they believed you didn’t actually possess the power, or if you did, that you would never use it.

Student: We would then have to defend ourselves and capture the decadent society’s leaders and lock them up until they changed their ways of thinking and acting.

Teacher: Then your power to destroy was not perfect either.

Student: Not in the same way I thought it was.

Teacher: You have answered these hypothetical questions wisely. Do you see how power complicates?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: Do you understand that having the power to enlighten or destroy is a type of power that most people consign to God?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: So I was asking you to play God, hypothetically.

Student: I understand, but how does that answer my question about gaining the knowledge of God?

Teacher: It may not. I simply wanted you to have a glimpse of the perspective of the human-imagined God.

Student: Why?

Gemma
11th April 2015, 12:14
Teacher: If you want the knowledge of God, you must have some perspective on the position of a God.

Student: But I didn’t mean that I wanted to have the knowledge of the God that humans have created.

Teacher: It’s the only knowledge you can have.

Student: Why can’t I obtain the knowledge of the true God, First Source? Why isn’t there a technique that I can use to find and acquire this knowledge?

Teacher: Let’s return to our hypothetical scenario. Suppose that your power to destroy was simply a thought away. If you became angry, your power to destroy would be unleashed and the recipient of your anger would be obliterated.

Student: Would it work the same way for enlightenment? In other words, would I be able to enlighten with a simple thought?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Okay.

Teacher: How many times a day do you have an angry thought and a thought to enlighten someone?

Student: I don’t know. On a good day, I don’t have any angry thoughts.

Teacher: On a bad day?

Student: Maybe three or four.

Teacher: Each time you have these thoughts, if you were angry with a person, your anger would harm the object of your rage.

Student: What about the other side of the coin. What if I were loving and kind, would my thoughts enlighten them as well?

Teacher: Precisely.

Student: So, with nothing but my thoughts, I can harm or help a person.

Teacher: Yes.

Student: Then wouldn’t it make sense that if I had the knowledge of God, I would also have the discipline to control my thoughts and emotions?

Teacher: No.

Student: Why?

Teacher: Because your dominant reality is that of a human being with all of its weaknesses and foibles. You are designed to have spontaneous thoughts and emotions. You have instincts that respond to stimuli, and you cannot control your natural thoughts or emotions. You can suppress them. You can ignore them. You can even extinguish them, but only for a period of time.

Student: And this is why I can’t have the knowledge of God?

Teacher: Correct.

Student: Then every human is sealed inside a world of limitation because they have this inability to control their impulses – be they thoughts or emotions? It seems unfair.

Teacher: Perhaps, but this same limitation is liberating.

Student: In what way?

Teacher: Do you know the will of First Source?

Student: No, but I think I have an idea of what is aligned with the will of God and what is not.

Teacher: If you truly know what is aligned and what it not, then you would need to know the will of First Source, would you not?

Student: I mean that I know the general direction or intention of God’s will.

Teacher: But not the details?

Student: Correct. I know that what is of love and light is aligned with the will of God, and what is of evil and darkness is not. But I might not be able to distinguish between the more subtle shades of light and darkness or good and evil.

Teacher: I see. And how did you arrive at this conclusion?

Student: It is what I have been taught.

Teacher: And who taught you this?

Student: My teachers, the books I’ve read. Everyone believes this don’t they?

Teacher: And because you have been taught that the will of God is knowable, you believe you can make the judgment that a loving act is aligned, but an evil act is not.

Student: Basically, yes.

Teacher: What if I suggested to you that understanding the will of God is one and the same as possessing the knowledge of God?

Student: I’m not sure that I understand what you mean.

Teacher: What do you think I mean? Make an effort to express your thoughts, no matter how murky they may be. Sometimes the fog lifts only when you struggle to see through it.

Student: I have the sense that you’re suggesting that if I understand what the creator desires from his creation, I would also understand a key component of the knowledge of God. In other words, in order to have the knowledge of God, I must know what God wants from me, what he desired me to become.

Teacher: And what do you think God wants you to become?

Student: Liberated.

Teacher: From limitation?

Student: Yes. Exactly.

Teacher: First Source desires that you live without limitation, but creates a soul carrier and a setting for that soul carrier to live within that is rooted in limitation. Why do think it is the will of God that you shrug off your limitations?

Student: Because if I have no limitations, I am liberated of the things that reduce my spiritual awareness.

Teacher: And what will you do then – when you are free of all limitation?

Student: I’m not exactly sure, but it will be blissful and likened to what Buddha called Nirvana – freedom from desire.

Teacher: Why would your Creator create you, set you in a soul carrier that was bound to a reality of limitation, construct an elaborate universe school to educate you, and commission a vast array of instructors, only to enable you to pass into Nirvana or a blissful state?

Student: I don’t know. That’s in part what I’m trying to understand.

Teacher: Are you sure?

Student: Well it’s certainly one of the things I’m trying to understand.

Teacher: If you’re trying to understand this, then answer my question.

Student: But I don’t know the answer.

Teacher: Try to articulate it as best you can.

Student: I agree it doesn’t make sense that God would have me educated in the ways of the universe and then leave me to simply enjoy it, but I don’t know what else I would do. No one paints this picture very clearly.

Teacher: The picture, as you put it, is found in the service to a plan. The plan is the collective unfolding of souls to realize the singular nature of universehood as an undivided process.

We move from neighborhoods to cities, to states, to nations, to continents, to hemispheres, to planets, to solar systems, to galaxies, to local universes, to superuniverses, to the Grand Multiverse – the all-encompassing structure of our collective unity.
And every step we emerge the victor of the lesser state of being in that our lives increasingly exemplify the presence of our collective perception of what is best for the evolutionary course set forth by First Source for the Grand Multiverse.

Student: Okay, so this is the reason? To simply be able to hold the perspective of what is best for the Grand Multiverse? How can I ever know such a thing?

Teacher: You cannot.

Student: So again, I’m frustrated in ignorance. This seems to be the theme of spiritual matters.

Teacher: It is only because you take the undivided process and leap to its end, wishing to bring it closer into your reality of now. Your patience is exceeded by your vision of what is to be.

Student: I know. But what can I do about it?

Teacher: Define the knowledge that you need to accomplish each step of your process. Don’t profess to need the knowledge of God before you have the knowledge of your earth world or the knowledge of your human instrument. Frame your knowledge in the context of your design.

Student: How do you mean that?

Teacher: You are a physical body with complex, emotional impulses and instincts; you are also a system of nerves and data collectors that feed your consciousness and brain. Moreover, you are a collective of consciousnesses that span your entire species and time. These elements comprise your human instrument.
Like most seekers, you try to understand the mysterious substance of your inmost spirit – the Wholeness Navigator – before you understand your human instrument. And even more to the point, you seek to understand the Creator and sustainer of the Wholeness Navigator before you understand your inmost spirit.
You have intuited the undivided process because it is stored within you, but if you stretch the reach of your understanding it is because you seek to know the stars before you know the planet upon which you stand. And I ask you, what good is the knowledge of the stars when your home is misunderstood?

Student: You’re saying that I need to study my body and mind before I study the soul?

Teacher: No, I’m saying the knowledge of God that you seek is contained in every step of the undivided process. It is not realized in some sudden, elusive revelatory experience at the end of your journey. It is found in every step along the way.

Student: Yes, I understand this in concept. I’ve heard this many times before, but I sense that you’re making a different distinction here.

Teacher: Perhaps. I’m only recommending that you understand the soul carrier before you seek to know the soul, and that you understand the soul before you seek to understand its creator. Otherwise, if you first channel your energy into understanding the Creator, you will see it marginally, and this partial knowledge will deform your understanding of the soul carrier and the soul within it.

Gemma
11th April 2015, 12:19
Student: But how will I know that my understanding of the soul carrier is adequate so that I can embark on the understanding of my soul?

Teacher: The human instrument is an amazing composite of miraculous connections between the material and non-physical worlds. When you understand these connections, they will guide you to your understanding of the soul within you.

Student: So then I should really be asking you about how I can gain the knowledge of these connections. Is that correct?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: So how do I? Is it the chakras that are key?

Teacher: Much has been said and written about the energy centers that are revealed within the human instrument, but these energy centers are not the connections between the physical and non-physical realms.
What weaves together the physical body with the non-physical bodies is what we refer to as the phantom core.

Student: What is this composed of?

Teacher: The phantom core is not composed of anything material. It is like a shadow of soul consciousness that can move between the realms of the human instrument.

Student: So it can operate equally well within the mind and body?

Teacher: The phantom core is the consciousness that moves between the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind at speeds greater than light. Yet it is a point of awareness that distributes the experiences of the human instrument to the soul.

Student: Does it embellish the experiences or simply report them like a recorder?

Teacher: It reports everything in extraordinary terms.

Student: How do you mean?

Teacher: Even in the quiet moments of your life when you are staring through a window or reading a book, there is a great universe of experience that is perceived by this phantom core, and every miniature detail is faithfully recorded and transmitted to the soul.
The phantom core is the super consciousness of the human instrument. It is separate from the soul, and is considered the soul’s emissary to the natural world in which the human instrument must interact.
It is through this awareness that soul experiences the natural world of limitation and separation, drawing in the experiences that help it to build appreciation for the Grand Multiverse that is the garment of First Source.

Student: Why have I never heard of this before?

Teacher: Who should tell you?

Student: You, for one.

Teacher: I just did, were you not listening?

Student: Yes, but I’ve been your student for two years and this is the first I’ve heard of this phantom core. Why?

Teacher: We teach through association and metaphor. You have been taught about the phantom core, you just haven’t heard its name before now. And now that you have its name, it crystallizes in your mind a clearer picture of its design and purpose.

Student: But two years it takes for me to know its name?

Teacher: For some it is two hours for some it a lifetime. It depends on the person and how they arrive at their answers. You sought the unknowable before you sought what is to be known in your present life – where your consciousness resides now.

Student: Okay, we’ve established that I’m a dreamer –

Teacher: There’s nothing wrong with seeking the unknowable. I am not suggesting that you have wasted your time in the pursuit of a dream.

Student: But it seems that I need to place more time in understanding this phantom core. What do you recommend I learn in this regard?

Teacher: Learn all that you can about the human body, emotions, and mind. Make it the focus of your study for a period of time – perhaps a year or two, depending on the availability of your time.

As you do this, take notes about the features of the human instrument that either seem connected or anomalous. For example, the brain is dominated by the data received from the eyes. Why do the eyes not dominate consciousness?

As you produce your notes, organized around connections and anomalous phenomenon, begin to define the structure of the human instrument as one would if they were making a map of the interaction between the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. Remember that the phantom core is the shadow of the soul and operates seamlessly between the folds of the human instrument. It is the first perceiver and transmitter of the experience that consumes the human instrument of a specific individuality. It is the continuity of the undivided process within the material realms, while the soul is the continuity of the undivided process within the non-physical realms.

Student: And what about the Wholeness Navigator?

Teacher: It is the bridge of continuity between these two worlds. The Wholeness Navigator is the interlock between the worlds of time and the worlds of non-time. It is the fusion of the soul and the phantom core, integrating this vast experiential storehouse of data, and making it coherent as a force of transformation.

Student: It will take me a long time to create this picture and understand the connections.

Teacher: It will take you a lifetime, if you are fortunate. However, if you set forth upon the path of First Source without first understanding the fundamental structures within which your soul operates, you will pursue a mirage. God will appear and disappear, and doubt will shake you every time a new occurrence crosses your path. It will seem that all is impermanent, even the face of God.

Student: You said a moment ago that the Wholeness Navigator uses the experiences of the soul carrier and soul as a force of transformation. Transformation of whom and for what purpose?

Teacher: The transformation is of the individual personality – the God-fragment that sojourns in both the worlds of time and non-time, and is devoted to the One Plan that embraces all forms, personalities, and opinions therein. This personality is the identity that endures the shape shifting of forms and the ceaseless churning of time to become a conscious extension of the One Plan.
The purpose of this transformation is to explore the Grand Multiverse as emissaries of First Source, creating new opportunities for the expansion and ongoing evolution of the One Plan.

Student: I suspect you purposely gave me an abstract answer as a way of reminding me of the task ahead.

Teacher: I gave you what is available to be given. Words themselves are an abstraction, are they not?

Student: If you don’t mind, I want to return to my task: studying the human instrument. Is there a model I can use so I can compare my approach with others?

Teacher: There may be some who would gladly share their research and findings. I would encourage you to collaborate with your fellow students. It is a very useful practice.

Student: You spoke of connections in the human instrument and anomalous phenomenon. Can you please elaborate on these?

Teacher: The connections of the human instrument are the threads that make up the fabric of the phantom core. These threads weave together the pathways between the physical body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. Within each of these are sub-layers, just as the skin of the human body is different than the nervous system, which is different than the skeletal structure.
The body is therefore made up of many layers and sub-components that comprise the total structure. This is equally true for the emotions, mind, and genetic mind.
The connections between these layers or strata of the human instrument, which number 24 primary systems, each originate from the Wholeness Navigator. In other words, these threads have a common ground and spiral out touching each of the 24 primary systems, binding them together in a holistic system.

Student: What are the 24 systems? Do I know them?

Teacher: It is not important to recognize each of them individually. Some have not been discovered in the world of time and space. I only mention the number so that you can know the depth of the human instrument and its impeccable and miraculous structure.

Student: Why is this so important?

Gemma
11th April 2015, 12:24
Teacher: The human instrument is regarded by most cultures as a body that is vulnerable and fragile. It is considered flawed and imperfect because it degenerates over time and is susceptible to disease. In some areas, it is considered nothing more than an animate object for the sensing of pleasure or pain. It is held in low regard, and even those who feel a spiritual imperative, regard it as the lesser or lower self.

Student: But it is the lower self isn’t it?

Teacher: It is the vessel of the transcendent soul. When you see a vessel of beauty, do you wonder what is inside it?

Student: I guess when I see a beautiful vessel – like a work of art – I assume the vessel is for appreciation, not utility.

Teacher: It doesn’t require a utilitarian function because its beauty is sufficient a purpose. Correct?

Student: Exactly.

Teacher: The human instrument is the same way. It is a beautifully conceived creation; so much so that most believe it is empty. Its purpose is in itself. They do not see the 24 strata, they perceive only the five dominant strata: skin, muscle, bones, emotions, and mind.
Student: Why? Why do we only see these five and not the whole 24?

Teacher: You are taught these perceptions by your educational indoctrination and society as a whole, and conversely, you are not taught to appreciate and understand the other 19 strata. In most cases, these strata require more vigilance and persistence to understand and appreciate.

Student: So how do I learn about the other dimensions of the human instrument?

Teacher: You study the human instrument. You study the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. You learn to understand this sacred vessel for what it truly is: the exploratory, albeit temporary, vehicle of your inmost, immortal consciousness in the worlds of time and space.

Student: But if you gave me information about the 24 strata, wouldn’t it help me in my studies?

Teacher: Perhaps, but it is not necessary to understand all of these levels with the human mind. And here again, you seek to know the staircase before you understand the first few steps. It is the function of time to make the staircase comprehensible in steps, not singular revelations.

Student: I understand.

Teacher: I have highlighted the universal path; now tell me what you have learned.

Student: Okay, I’ll do my best. The phantom core connects the 24 levels of the human instrument, and is the observing consciousness of the worlds of time and space for the human soul. The phantom core has multiple threads, for lack of a better description, that weave these 24 levels together, and it uses these connective threads like pathways to move – as a consciousness – from one level to the next at quantum speeds. It then passes this experiential information to the soul, which then processes this incoming data in order to evolve its understanding of how to align with the One Plan and increasingly bring light to the darker outposts of the Grand Multiverse.

Teacher: Take a deep breath. You have listened well.

Student: Did I get it right?

Teacher: Are you concerned about being right or are you interested in learning?

Student: Are they so different?

Teacher: They can be polar opposites.

Student: I’m interested in learning and being right.

Teacher: You asked me at the beginning of this dialogue, as to whether there is a technique to gain the knowledge of God. Do you remember?

Student: Yes.

Teacher: And have you discovered your answer?

Student: No. I don’t think there is an answer.

Teacher: Perhaps there’s an answer, but it is different for every human. All beings approach their creator in a unique path that has never been navigated before. If you stitched together the vast reservoir of your experience in the worlds of time and space, do you think it has ever been replicated?

Student: I don’t know. I’ve never thought about it before. Perhaps at a basic level it has.

Teacher: Only if you grossly simplified it would you see any similarity in the paths of the ascending souls to their Creator’s realm. Truthfully, we are each as unique as the planets that number the Grand Universe, and it is precisely this uniqueness that prevents a universal technique from ever becoming the magical pill of enlightenment.

Student: I understand this. Was this done as part of the design?

Teacher: Yes.

Student: I guess the real question is what knowledge is required in order to construct my own techniques for gaining the awareness of my own, multi-layered self?

Teacher: You are on your way if it is your practice to make this inquiry every morning that you arise, and you feel yourself a magnet attracting this very knowledge into your life through every facet of your experience.

Student: Does it help if I believe that the phantom core is present within me and absorbing this knowledge even if my conscious mind is not?
Teacher: It does and it is.


Pheew :spinning: the end :)

gardener
11th April 2015, 14:27
Dear Gemma, I am loving this thread where did you get this wisdom? I would be grateful to learn more, thank you I AM VERY GRATEFUL.

Acraeus
11th April 2015, 15:48
Dear Gemma, I am loving this thread where did you get this wisdom? I would be grateful to learn more, thank you I AM VERY GRATEFUL.

You can find them here Gardener:

https://www.wingmakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Lyricus-Discourses-1-6-optimized.pdf

I came across the Wingmaker material some time ago. There is indeed much to be gleaned from what is shared. You can read more about their philosophy here:

https://www.wingmakers.com/content/philosophy/

Gemma
13th April 2015, 01:45
Hi Gardener, yeah there's some really cool stuff in the Lyricus/Wingmakers materials.
When I became disheartened, many moons ago :(, at the stark reality not only of how we treat each other on this planet, but how accepting it is culturally, I personally believed that the only solution which would have the power to cut through every sector of society in order to completely restructure our social paradigms would be to prove we have a soul ~ yet I couldn't find material that spoke to this and so faith and science continue to stay in perfect opposition and separation.

I was obviously delighted when I finally found a voice, (Wingmaker Materials), which was not only talking about this, but whose prime mission was toward bringing it to fruition. And although not a scientist I do keep my eyes and ears open for clues within our scientific, spiritual, metaphysical, cultural worlds that this discovery isn't just a grand hollow prophecy mixed in with all the BS we are fed. And yes, there are some very tangible demonstrations/proofs of this potential that I find in those that are steering the lens of science away from the brain being the dominant power/control centre of Consciousness by studying, developing technology to measure, etc, the energetic fields (portal) around the heart and its attributes of Consciousness.

There are several websites belonging to this material and if you haven't already discovered, it can be quite daunting on approaching as there is so much provided. I do appreciate though how the author(s) has provided "lobby's" catering to all tastes to approach the material; from artworks, poetry, music, philosophical papers, interviews, mythology, novels, etc,
as I flounder with artistic portals but can enter and navigate my way around the philosophy and literature.

https://www.wingmakers.com/
This is the main website that links to most of the materials.

http://www.lyricus.org/
This is where the above interview can be found along with many more and a Q&A section.

http://eventtemples.com/
This is a global meditation site.

http://spiritstate.com/
This is where some of the novels can be read on-line and contains artwork also.

https://sumbola.com/home
This platform has novels to read on-line also.

https://www.pinterest.com/jamesmahu/
This has some really interesting artworks, graphics, etc - great complimentary visuals to the philosophies, etc.

http://planetworkpress.com/pwpcart/index.php
This is where hard copies of the materials can be purchased. Most of the Wingmakers materials is free online though and can be downloaded and it has been this way for many years now since its inception.

And even readers only interested in fiction/mythology I'm sure won't be disappointed with the many novels. I have read, re-read, and re-read, all of the material - over many years (I have a love/hate relationship with the materials :eek: as they provide a very challenging framework to take into and work with, within one's individual workshop) - so I can provide a review of the novels as being masterfully created realism seamlessly interspersed with multiple layers of metaphysics, spirituality, culture, conspiracy, and science. I will confidently say that I really don't think anyone well into practicing their own personal awakening would be disappointed with any of "the stories" and the inspiration/challenges they present.

Anyway all the best to you Gardener and enjoy :)
And thank you for your lovely energy and voice on this platform ~ I find it very soothing.:sun: