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Catsquotl
11th April 2015, 09:38
Over the years many a topic surfaced hinting at certain parts of consciousness.
Lower and higher consciousness. Certain bits or flavours of consciousness. The question if and how we can become aware of consciousness etc.

I thought it might be helpful to have a thread solely purposed for exploring all questions, idea's, conclusions and figments of imagination about consciousness.
The reason of which of course to gain insight on what it is that we call consciousness. Its nature, it's quirks, it's applicability to states of being, it's tendencies and it's drawback's if there are any.

Again i'm in my buddhist frame of mind, so anything coming through undoubtedly goes through that filter.
Anyhow a book I found that started this specific exploration is the comprehensive manual of abhidhamma by bhikkhu bodhi. available as a free download here.
http://store.pariyatti.org/Comprehensive-Manual-of-Abhidhamma-A--PDF-eBook_p_4362.html

For starters I'll state that consciousness is everything we can become aware of.
Reason i'm stating it as this is that I hold the notion that certain aspects of consciousness are not easy to see without some form of training in observance.

With Love
Eelco

Gemma
11th April 2015, 12:03
For starters I'll state that consciousness is everything we can become aware of.
Reason i'm stating it as this is that I hold the notion that certain aspects of consciousness are not easy to see without some form of training in observance.


Awesome quote and thanks for synchronicity as I have only just today found a pocket of time to revisit my personal studies of Consciousness. I am currently exploring the anatomy of our lenses, i.e. eye-brain, heart-brain, etc and the connections I have personally developed to detect and interact within our individual sub-layers of "Consciousness". I find the following Lyricus Discourse 3 to be particularly helpful and was going to quote from it but then realized I would become swept up in "rambling on" so have decided just to paste it in as it is far more skillfully explanatory than I could manage :p
Thanks for thread. I am looking forward to what will be shared.

. . . .woops when I copied the discourse I realized it would be way too long for here so I have dropped in a small excerpt and created a separate thread "Lyricus D3-Nature of Knowledge" where the entire conversation can be read for those interested. It starts off talking about gaining knowledge of God and raises questions as to what we would do with power but uses this as a platform to launch into Consciousness and its multiple layers.

Student: Okay, we’ve established that I’m a dreamer –

Teacher: There’s nothing wrong with seeking the unknowable. I am not suggesting that you have wasted your time in the pursuit of a dream.

Student: But it seems that I need to place more time in understanding this phantom core. What do you recommend I learn in this regard?

Teacher: Learn all that you can about the human body, emotions, and mind. Make it the focus of your study for a period of time – perhaps a year or two, depending on the availability of your time.

As you do this, take notes about the features of the human instrument that either seem connected or anomalous. For example, the brain is dominated by the data received from the eyes. Why do the eyes not dominate consciousness?

As you produce your notes, organized around connections and anomalous phenomenon, begin to define the structure of the human instrument as one would if they were making a map of the interaction between the body, emotions, mind, and genetic mind. Remember that the phantom core is the shadow of the soul and operates seamlessly between the folds of the human instrument. It is the first perceiver and transmitter of the experience that consumes the human instrument of a specific individuality. It is the continuity of the undivided process within the material realms, while the soul is the continuity of the undivided process within the non-physical realms.

Student: And what about the Wholeness Navigator?

Teacher: It is the bridge of continuity between these two worlds. The Wholeness Navigator is the interlock between the worlds of time and the worlds of non-time. It is the fusion of the soul and the phantom core, integrating this vast experiential storehouse of data, and making it coherent as a force of transformation.

Student: It will take me a long time to create this picture and understand the connections.

Teacher: It will take you a lifetime, if you are fortunate. However, if you set forth upon the path of First Source without first understanding the fundamental structures within which your soul operates, you will pursue a mirage. God will appear and disappear, and doubt will shake you every time a new occurrence crosses your path. It will seem that all is impermanent, even the face of God.

(http://www.lyricus.org)

Catsquotl
11th April 2015, 14:23
Just read that discourse.. It seems there is an innate assumption about the existence of God in there, A source if you will.
Although I "believe" gods exists. That is beings with seemingly supernatural and almost omnipotent powers. Until I am one they will remain a source of mystery to me.

Which may bring us to the limitations of human consciousness. Is there a distinction between consciousness? is it broken or limited by any condition? being a human or being a god? Or does it transcend such limitations...

A quote I read on another forum a few minutes ago.


Awareness, perception and consciousness are synonyms although use of the words perception and awareness imply that there's something other than consciousness to perceive, if you see what I mean? Most people mistakenly believe that if perceptions (including the bodymind) disappear then consciousness disappears. Enlightenment is the experience that it doesn't.

hmmm.
With Love
Eelco

Catsquotl
12th April 2015, 10:36
I might as well start by paraphrasing from my version of the Abhidhamma, because if I have to wait to write anything here only if my understanding of them is complete it may take a few lifetimes still. Besides what fun would a discussion be if I already understood everything about it.

So the Abhidhamma states it talks about the ultimate reality of things. That is the reality of things in themselves. So conceptual realities don't count. In my mind a concept of human, tree, animal etc is not ultimate reality as they are only exist as concepts. Built up from several co-dependend states that together we call human, tree or animal.

The Abhidamma describes 4 such ultimate realities.
There are:
- Citta(Citta's) which translates to mind or consciousness and points at that which knows.(these get subdivided later into 89 or 121 types of consciousness)
- Cetasikas which translates to mental factors. These mental factors arise together with consciousness. There are 52 of these. Feeling(pleasant, unpleasant and neutral), Perception, and 50 mental formations.
- Rupa or matter. of which there are 28 types of material phenomena.
These 3 are the so called conditioned realities, which means they exist only when certain conditions are met.
- Nibanna the final reality which is unconditioned and therefore signify ultimate freedom (from suffering)

Of those 4 Citta/Concsiousness is also 4-fold.
- Sense sphere consciousness
- Fine material sphere consciousness
- Immaterial sphere consciousness
- Supramundane consciousness

Citta is also defined 3 different ways.
- Citta as an agent, here citta is that which knows or cognizes an object.
- Citta as an instrument, Here citta is that by means of which the 52 mental factors cognize an object.
- Citta as an activity, where the process or act of cognizing an object is called citta.

This last definition seems to be the most adequate. As it does away with the notion there could be a permanent self that is cognizing or conscious. It is in the process of cognizing that Citta arises and passes as agent, as instrument and as activity by itself.


With Love
Eelco

Spiritwind
12th April 2015, 16:26
This came popping out of my head this morning. I was originally thinking about outer world dramas and distractions, as you can see, but it came around to consciousness, after all.

All of it is distraction. Distraction from what, you might ask?
Distraction from being the creators each of us are. Feed your energy to the beast, all but what you need to barely survive, then we'll let you live. What? That is what it has come down to. We give our energy to continue to fuel a reality that isn't even what we really want.

Now that I fully recognize that and see it for what it is I have become somewhat liberated, at least from my previous state of being and understanding. No doubt, there will come along an even newer, more expanded understanding that will supersede this one, but for now I am going to explore where I am at.

Various different converging points along the time line. This time is vitally linked with some other key related points along the spiral of time. First there was a point, a small dot. That dot expanded, creating an inner core, then an outer core. From that dot a line was formed. Movement emerged out of this core in a spiraling fashion, creating a donut shaped object that contained all possible movements within. This created space and time.

We are the dot, we are the donut, we are the line. We are all of this, and yet we have individual awarenesses that emerged as consciousness in individual packages. These packages became souls that came to remember their passages along these almost infinite lines that became known as time emerging from the core. Thus true individuality was born.

Just a train of thought I am probably not done with yet, but consciousness, and what it really is, is a favorite topic of mine, one I muse about considerably.

Hermit
12th April 2015, 22:04
For starters I'll state that consciousness is everything we can become aware of.
Reason i'm stating it as this is that I hold the notion that certain aspects of consciousness are not easy to see without some form of training in observance.

I liked this definition and then I realized...hey...wait a minute....

....so I am aware that something which I call "I" is aware of things. But those things aren't what the "I" is. Then I really had to do a double take because the "I' is being observed by something else, and it's empty! It exists, but it only exists because it observes. When it doesn't observe, does it continue to exist?

If all we are is a collection of observations, what happens if we are observing things which are in their nature false, does that mean we are false?

What about the notion of false?

What about the notion of notion?

What about?

?

Consciousness is the result of observation which is conducted by something which, at it's very nature, is ineffable.

Welcome to the walk of the mystic. ;)

E if I haven't friended you yet, it's incoming.

Catsquotl
13th April 2015, 04:01
If all we are is a collection of observations, what happens if we are observing things which are in their nature false, does that mean we are false?

What about the notion of false?

What about the notion of notion?

What about?

?

Consciousness is the result of observation which is conducted by something which, at it's very nature, is ineffable.

Welcome to the walk of the mystic. ;)

E if I haven't friended you yet, it's incoming.

I started thinking about your first question, then realized nothing is false. When we become conscious of it, it exists. Nothing inherently false about "it" only when we start building a story around it does anything become false. Remember so far I am talking about experiential reality not conceptual.

When in meditation, what that means to me is that when i start observing something and i am making a distinction that it is truth or false I acknowledge/note that my mind is thinking. And I start observing again.
Thoughts like these, or any thoughts for that matter arise just like views from a window on a journey by train.
Same with the notion of notion.
They are just a part of my immediate sensate reality. Therefore impermanent, unsatisfying and not self.
Which btw does not give them a devaluation of any kind. But not an inflation into something bigger than it is either.


In another sense the concept of false in my mind becomes relative to the desired results. I do use these concepts when i contemplate my immediate sensate reality in terms of causes and effects..

anyway off to work.
With Love
Eelco

Anarp
14th April 2015, 14:56
There is much talk these days, as there has been for many decades, of an impending change of consciousness- in line with many ancient predictions; one that will take humanity into the much-heralded Golden Age, [also called the 5th Age, or Age of Enlightenment].

So, what does this mean for you and me, the ordinary denizens of the 21st century?

What future awaits our children, and our grandchildren, if the current political scene - based on war, separation, and fear - continues, or worsens? Can we have a hand in shaping a different future?

The answer has to be a resounding yes, because if we, the collective, don't change the way the world is run, those presently in control will turn it into a trans-humanist dystopia, in line with their Agenda 21.

So, what is consciousness, and how can it change?

Consciousness is really a metaphysical concept, and can't be subjected to investigation or definition through currently-accepted scientific principles, in the way, for example, a mathematical algorithm can be scrutinised. Although, that said, mainstream scientists are involved in just such an investigation, as we speak. Presently however, there is no universally acceptable, scientifically-repeatable, and provable answer to the question: What is consciousness?

In essence, it is energy, expressed and experienced in the physical form. The best semantic equivalent to consciousness that we can come up with here, is awareness.

Consciousness is a graduated state of awareness of the experience of being. But it is more than that. It is the essence, and barometer, of life itself. Time, as we currently experience it, is actually an out-picturing of limited consciousness – a consciousness that is unable to de-code the energy of physical reality in anything other than a linear form.

From a mathematical perspective, we can attempt to pin down the way in which energy and time relate to each other, via, for example, Einstein's formula. But that isn't the only way of describing energy, and consciousness similarly defies such left-brained analysis.

The answer that we give to the question what is consciousness?, from our present five-sensory state of being, is very different from the answer that would come from other realms of being...... other states of consciousness. This is because perspective creates perception, which, in turn, creates experience. More clearly stated, the way in which we look at something determines what we see. Change the state of consciousness, and you change the perspective, which changes what is seen [de-coded], and what is therefore experienced.

It was Dr John Lee who eloquently suggested that: “The apparent solidity of matter is a perception that devolves from the limitations of our sensory equipment”. In other words, physical reality only appears to be solid because that is how our five senses interpret the raw energy that surrounds us, and which gives us a platform for 'creating reality'.

And, that perception of solidity includes the bodies which we think we are!

We are actually no more solid than the electromagnetic network that constitutes the backbone of the internet; we are just vibrating at a lower - denser - frequency. Thus, our five senses determine [restrict] our level of awareness.... aka, our consciousness. Having only five senses with which to interact with the environment is a bit like putting a 1 megabyte wireless receiver [the senses] on a 500 gigabyte computer [the human brain] …..only, as we will see in a moment, there are also other problems.

Those who have spent time researching this subject talk about states of consciousness...... lower states and higher states, and they relate these expressions to various numbers of active DNA strands…… 2, 12, or more.

So, what is a lower state of consciousness, as compared to a higher state?

A lower state of [human] consciousness is one which derives its perceived reality from a very narrow bandwidth of frequencies. A higher state of consciousness is one which derives its perceived reality from a wider band of frequencies.

Currently, humans exist in a very narrow bandwidth of frequencies; trapped within the visible light spectrum, which is a tiny fraction of what is potentially available for interpretation.

If we represent all energy as a pie chart, we would have dark energy / matter as 95%; ordinary non-luminous matter as 4.5%; ordinary luminous matter as 0.5%; and the electromagnetic spectrum as 0.005%.

The electromagnetic spectrum ranges from gamma waves, through X rays, ultraviolet, infra red, microwaves and radio waves. Between ultraviolet and infra red, we have what we call the*visible light*range.... which is a fraction of the 0.005% that represents the electromagnetic spectrum's contribution to*all energy. Humans are more or less totally blind, deaf, and dumb!

But, this is by design, and our present state of low awareness – one that manifests fear and separation-consciousness – serves as food to non-corporeal parasitic beings, [Archons], who have deliberately structured governments and corporate society to serve their purposes. However, this is another subject.

A large part of our present state of awareness owes its provenance to altered DNA.

The DNA acts as a transmitter / receiver [or antenna] that picks up various frequencies that are available in the ambient environment. The so-called junk DNA is actually no such thing. This part of the DNA is picking up frequencies from many different dimensions of reality, but our brains are unable to de-code this information, which further exacerbates the sensory limitation problem, as hinted at previously. As a result of this brain dysfunction, there is nothing to report from other-than-five-sensory data, and the internal screen remains blank. In other words, our CPU is not sufficiently well-advanced, at this stage, to enable this wider-range data de-coding process.

In fact, it was Stewart Swerdlow who described DNA as: “The biological interface between physicality and hyperspace" - which may add credence to these notes.

We are currently trapped in the mental mind, or left brain. This is the masculine, analytical aspect of our CPU, which needs to box and file all incoming information in sizes and shapes that make sense to our basic survival, reproductive, and distraction programmes. The right brain, or feminine, intuitive aspect of the CPU, is effectively offline, and only manages to integrate and process a small amount of incoming data.

As these two aspects of our mind return to full function, [which, according to many in the New Age network, is what is now occurring], we will be able to utilise a great deal more of the information that is presently by-passing the system. This re-integration of the left and right hemispheres of our brain will lead to what metaphysicians have called higher or full consciousness.

It has long since been understood within spiritual circles [possibly erroneously] that when we leave the physical form by the process we call death, the animating energy [spirit] of the body is freed from the confines of the five senses, and gains access to a much wider range of frequencies from which tocreate reality– as numerous OBE and NDE tales testify. However, authors such as John Lash, Cameron Day, and others, have suggested that these out-of-body and near-death experiences may be part of an elaborate, Archon-orchestrated illusion - an illusion which serves to push us back into physical reality, whence we came, via a revolving door of false light.

This has been our experience to date, possibly covering thousands of years, prior to the onset of the alleged photonic ‘upgrade’ that we are now encountering. As these new energies are integrated, and the erstwhile so-called junk DNA is recognised, and used, for what it truly is, we will be able not only to transcend many of the conditioned programmes that presently govern our lives….. those of limitation, lack, pain, and fear……but also to actually migrate to another dimensions of reality altogether, in a totally transformed semi-physical form.

Well, that is what the New Age has been telling us, anyway. Unfortunately, we are unable to clearly distinguish what is truth and what is fantasy in this model, as most of the information that has served to fill its pages has been gleaned from wholly-unreliable channelled material, or from otherwise-compromised sources, the latter whom may or may not be minions of secret government projects, or subjects of mind-control, spreading misinformation.

Catsquotl
14th April 2015, 16:49
That's why I started a study of the abhidhamma.
It seems old experiencers and meditators have found a way to define consciousness to very detailed levels.
Focusing on what it is, how it arises, how we can influence it.

I agree it's a lot less colorful when the descriptions is in terms of what we already can experience or with some effort can learn to experience, but so far as a personal subject of investigation within the realms of experience its rather satisfying in terms of defining consciousness and seeing its arising by itself..

The promise made in for instance the vissudhimaggha (path to purification) is just that. It is possible to experience states of consciousness that transcend the 5 or 6 senses that still are bound to some of the defining parameters set for consciousness.

I believe for now that we have the full version of our consciousness at our disposal it is just that we don't use it properly. Trapped if you will in what Buddhists call wrong view.

Anyhoe just my tuppence

With Love
Eelco
(who will get off of his preaching soapbox soon.. promise)

Aragorn
14th April 2015, 17:24
I am not going to be quoting anything of what you wrote because for most part, I agree with it, and your post is well-written. I would however, if I may, like to throw in my two Eurocents worth on a few things, just as an alternative perspective to the same thing, if you will. ;-)

Although it's pretty much a matter of semantics, I prefer making a distinction between consciousness and awareness. Many people equate consciousness with "the soul", but that is not how I see it. Consciousness, to me, is simply life itself; it is the ability of a particular thing in existence to interact with another thing in existence, to exchange information with said other thing in existence. Ergo, for me, everything has at least some form of consciousness, albeit not necessarily as we ourselves experience our own consciousness.

That said, consciousness has only one function, which is to collapse the wave function. Or, otherwise put, consciousness seeks to make sense out of what it observes -- it seeks to create order out of chaos, and thus, to reverse the entropy. This ties in with what Source is. Source is infinite information, some of which is paradoxical, because Source contains information both on all that is and on all that is not, with "is" and "is not" being collapses of the wave function. Within Source, the information is in a constant quantum superstate.

Part of Source is information about consciousness -- information on how to make sense of the information. That is how come part of Source is self-aware, thereby creating the first dichotomy ever: Self and Other. If you wish to put that in quantum physics vernacular, then we speak of the Observer and the Observed. When translated to spirituality and philosophy, then it becomes Creator and Creation. Everything else stems from that dichotomy, because by the very existence of this particular dichotomy, the concept of dichotomy itself has become real, and as such, other polarities also spring forth from within this concept. It's all Yin and Yang, but they are not opposites; instead, they are complements -- the two sides of the coin, and one becomes meaningless without the other.

So that, to me, is what consciousness is: it is that part which gives meaning to the existence of something, and this is not contradictory to what I said higher up, which is that consciousness is the ability for something to interact with something else and exchange information. After all, something that does not interact with anything at all, has no meaning and therefore, technically, does not exist. :-)

Now, I define "awareness" as "the extent of consciousness", or perhaps differently put -- and you've alluded to this yourself in your post -- the degree to which we can focus on a particular set of information, and thus, make that wave function collapse. The broader the awareness, the broader the collapse of the wave function. As a practical example, the broader your awareness, the better your idea on what reality is like within your personal reality bubble -- and we all do have such a personal "mini-universe" around us. As such, the broader your awareness, the more of a creator you yourself will become. However, this is not a conscious process of creation, because one does not create what one wishes to create. Instead, one only creates in the sense that one generates a bigger degree of order -- or if you will, a smaller degree of entropy -- in one's own reality bubble. It's a function of consciousness, not of willpower -- the latter is a function of the mind, and the mind is the interface between the soul/spirit and pure consciousness. :-)

(I hope that makes sense to someone. :p)

Another aspect that I would like to address is a particular item which you've touched upon in your post, namely the "left brain"/"right brain" thing. The notion that the left brain half would be representative of "the masculine" and that the right brain half would be representative of "the feminine" is actually incorrect. In fact, men and women both have two fully functional brain hemispheres, but it is the way in which these two brain hemispheres work together which gives expression to masculinity or femininity. In a typical masculine configuration, the two brain hemispheres -- representing logic and intuition -- appear to be working in parallel, whereas in a feminine configuration, they appear to be working in series.

This above is also not simply a matter of having a physical body. Rather, the physical body is itself (at least in part) a manifestation of the configuration of one's soul/spirit. There is of course a two-way interaction between the soul/spirit and the physical body -- which is an entity all of its own account, comprised of billions of individual cells which are also entities all of their own account, and those cells are made up of molecules and atoms, all of which are themselves also entities, and so on, down to the quark level. But the interaction is two-way, because the soul/spirit influences the make-up of the body (most notably when the body is developing as a foetus inside the womb) while the experiences of the body (or perhaps more appropriately put: the experiences of the merger between a soul and a body, i.e. an incarnation) also feed back and color the soul/spirit through its memories and energetic interactions. Your experiences gathered throughout your incarnate life will co-determine your soul/spirit identity, even after you leave these mortal realms. :-)

(And I hope that this, too, makes sense to someone. :p)

Anarp
14th April 2015, 18:44
[QUOTE=Aragorn;841916285]I am not going to be quoting anything of what you wrote because for most part, I agree with it, and your post is well-written. I would however, if I may, like to throw in my two Eurocents worth on a few things, just as an alternative perspective to the same thing, if you will. ;-)

Hi Aragorn, and thanks for your considered opinion on this multi-faceted subject.


Although it's pretty much a matter of semantics, I prefer making a distinction between consciousness and awareness. Many people equate consciousness with "the soul", but that is not how I see it. Consciousness, to me, is simply life itself; it is the ability of a particular thing in existence to interact with another thing in existence, to exchange information with said other thing in existence. Ergo, for me, everything has at least some form of consciousness, albeit not necessarily as we ourselves experience our own consciousness.

You're introducing another aspect of consciousness here, namely communication.

When I made an attempt to define consciousness as the "graduated state of awareness of the experience of being", I didn't specifically allude to communication as being inherent in this awareness. But we can have that conversation now!

For example, we can say that "everything has consciousness", including a rock, but we would be hard-pushed to prove such a statement, unless we used some kind of arcane measuring device, such as Kirlian photography.

Now, humans communicate via many means, but primarily through language. Some people may be more telepathic than others; some may use smell as a communication signal more than others; then we have sign language, music, drumming, lights, and several other forms of passing messages from one to another.

Can rocks communicate? Probably, but not by any means that humans immediately recognise, and certainly not by spoken language. Perhaps rocks talk to each other via some kind of quantum geo-interconnectedness [currently under investigation], and if this investigation proves conclusive, we may well be able to include rocks in a more holistic compendium of things that are conscious.... but at the bottom end of the graduated scale that I previously referred to.


That said, consciousness has only one function, which is to collapse the wave function. Or, otherwise put, consciousness seeks to make sense out of what it observes -- it seeks to create order out of chaos, and thus, to reverse the entropy. This ties in with what Source is. Source is infinite information, some of which is paradoxical, because Source contains information both on all that is and on all that is not, with "is" and "is not" being collapses of the wave function. Within Source, the information is in a constant quantum superstate.

I would suggest that it is not so much consciousness, per se, that is responsible for collapsing the wave function..... that activity is more the function of the CPU, our brain. For sure, we need consciousness to animate the CPU, but the message that is received after de-coding what is seen / heard / sensed / collapsing the waveform] happens within the cerebral cortex. It is the perspective that is obtained from this de-coding activity that defines our level of consciousness.

And that is where our problems arise..... the inherent limitations of the CPU, as it currently exists, severely colour our perspectives, and thus, our perceptions.

I'll reply to the rest in another post.

Wind
14th April 2015, 18:54
That's a very good post you have written there, Anarp. Although the only part I would disagree with is the "false light"-meme, I think that itself is a trap. ;)

Anarp
14th April 2015, 19:08
Part of Source is information about consciousness -- information on how to make sense of the information. That is how come part of Source is self-aware, thereby creating the first dichotomy ever: Self and Other. If you wish to put that in quantum physics vernacular, then we speak of the Observer and the Observed. When translated to spirituality and philosophy, then it becomes Creator and Creation. Everything else stems from that dichotomy, because by the very existence of this particular dichotomy, the concept of dichotomy itself has become real, and as such, other polarities also spring forth from within this concept. It's all Yin and Yang, but they are*not opposites; instead, they are*complements*-- the two sides of the coin, and one becomes meaningless without the other.

I'm not really sure where you are going with this.


So that, to me, is what consciousness is: it is that part which gives meaning to the existence of something, and this is not contradictory to what I said higher up, which is that consciousness is the ability for something to interact with something else and exchange information. After all, something that does not interact with anything at all, has no meaning and therefore, technically, does not exist. :-)

I would be interested to read a list of things that you consider unable to interact with anything.


Now, I define "awareness" as "the extent of consciousness", or perhaps differently put -- and you've alluded to this yourself in your post -- the degree to which we can focus on a particular set of information, and thus, make that wave function collapse. The broader the awareness, the broader the collapse of the wave function. As a practical example, the broader your awareness, the better your idea on what reality is like within your personal reality bubble -- and we*all*do have such a personal "mini-universe" around us. As such, the broader your awareness, the more of a creator you yourself will become.

Well, respectfully, I don't believe that such a notion can be applied across the board. We have to define the method and nature of creation that we are referring to. For example, there are many people of genius-level minds who are clueless, [or physically-unable], when it comes to creation using physical methods. Stephen Hawking comes immediately to mind.

Hawking has a brilliant mind, and he is supremely creative, but not in a physical way.



However, this is not a conscious process of creation, because one does not create what one wishes to create. Instead, one only creates in the sense that one generates a bigger degree of order -- or if you will, a smaller degree of entropy -- in one's own reality bubble. It's a function of consciousness, not of willpower -- the latter is a function of the mind, and the mind is the interface between the soul/spirit and pure consciousness. :-)

I refer to my previous comment about consciousness being the animating force behind the tools [the physical senses and the CPU] that are responsible for the creative process, whatever form such a creative process would take in the physical world.


Another aspect that I would like to address is a particular item which you've touched upon in your post, namely the "left brain"/"right brain" thing. The notion that the left brain half would be representative of "the masculine" and that the right brain half would be representative of "the feminine" is actually incorrect.

I understand what you are saying. I was using these terms [male and female aspects of the brain] more in a colloquial vernacular than in a scientific sense.


In fact, men and women both have two fully functional brain hemispheres, but it is the way in which these two brain hemispheres work together which gives expression to masculinity or femininity. In a typical masculine configuration, the two brain hemispheres -- representing logic and intuition -- appear to be working*in parallel, whereas in a feminine configuration, they appear to be working*in series.*

I believe this is similar to what I was suggesting.... namely, that men tend towards a more analytical approach to engaging with life, whereas women tend towards a more intuitive approach. Of course, there are degrees of such activity in both camps. However, the main problem for both males and females is the lack of full connectivity of the left and right hemispheres of the brain.

Pris
14th April 2015, 19:29
Great thread, Anarp! :D


What future awaits our children, and our grandchildren, if the current political scene - based on war, separation, and fear - continues, or worsens? Can we have a hand in shaping a different future?

The answer has to be a resounding yes, because if we, the collective, don't change the way the world is run, those presently in control will turn it into a trans-humanist dystopia, in line with their Agenda 21.

Yippee, eh? You couldn't have said it any clearer than that.


Consciousness is a graduated state of awareness of the experience of being. But it is more than that. It is the essence, and barometer, of life itself. Time, as we currently experience it, is actually an out-picturing of limited consciousness – a consciousness that is unable to de-code the energy of physical reality in anything other than a linear form.

http://www.trendtastic.com.au/img/product-images/bwck-350b.jpg



It has long since been understood within spiritual circles [possibly erroneously] that when we leave the physical form by the process we call death, the animating energy [spirit] of the body is freed from the confines of the five senses, and gains access to a much wider range of frequencies from which tocreate reality– as numerous OBE and NDE tales testify. However, authors such as John Lash, Cameron Day, and others, have suggested that these out-of-body and near-death experiences may be part of an elaborate, Archon-orchestrated illusion - an illusion which serves to push us back into physical reality, whence we came, via a revolving door of false light.

I love entertaining this hypothesis.



That's a very good post you have written there, Anarp. Although the only part I would disagree with is the "false light"-meme, I think that itself is a trap. ;)

What if 'true light' or whatever you would call it, is also a 'meme' and, as such, is also a trap? What if there's nothing 'on the other side' except us with our creative imaginations? What if there is no 'other side'? :)



Can rocks communicate? Probably, but not by any means that humans immediately recognise, and certainly not by spoken language. Perhaps rocks talk to each other via some kind of quantum geo-interconnectedness [currently under investigation], and if this investigation proves conclusive, we may well be able to include rocks in a more holistic compendium of things that are conscious.... but at the bottom end of the graduated scale that I previously referred to.

Talking rocks... I can 'dig' it. :D

Cup
14th April 2015, 20:53
So many new good threads starting, thank you.

What is consciousness? Consciousness is the symptom of a living being, a soul. Consciousness cannot be manufactured, it is eternal, it cannot be separated from the soul. The soul is conscious and through consciousness free will is expressed.

All living entities have consciousness, trees, animals, crystals, humans, blue avians but that consciousness, or spiritual energy is covered by more or less material energy which will limit, to a greater or lesser degree the souls capacity for expressing consciousness.

A tree has relatively less capacity to express consciousness than a human, due to the limitations of the tree body, and a human has his/her limitations due to the human body, compared with the blue avians. But the soul within those different bodies is not different in quality or quantity.

You can observe yourself when you use your mind to think, you can observe your thoughts, the observer is the conscious soul.

The process of ascension or enlightenment we are going through is the purification and rising of vibration of the layers of material dust that is covering our soul our consciousness and it is driven by the souls desire. Ultimately the soul is perfect and complete and we are on our journey to discover that.

That is my two paisa.

Aragorn
14th April 2015, 22:01
Hi Aragorn, and thanks for your considered opinion on this multi-faceted subject.

My pleasure. It's a fascinating subject, around which unfortunately many misunderstandings have arisen over time, no thanks to certain self-proclaimed gurus.


You're introducing another aspect of consciousness here, namely communication.

Well, that is to say, I consider communication a higher form of information exchange, in which a certain symbolism is used as abstraction. The kind of information exchange I was alluding to is more generic and applies even to the exchange of electrons between atoms. That too, is an information exchange, and it's a very rudimentary one.



When I made an attempt to define consciousness as the "graduated state of awareness of the experience of being", I didn't specifically allude to communication as being inherent in this awareness. But we can have that conversation now!

For example, we can say that "everything has consciousness", including a rock, but we would be hard-pushed to prove such a statement, unless we used some kind of arcane measuring device, such as Kirlian photography. [...]

That too would be possible, but I was rather alluding to the very simple and elementary types of information exchange, such as a chemical reaction or crystal growth.



I would suggest that it is not so much consciousness, per se, that is responsible for collapsing the wave function..... that activity is more the function of the CPU, our brain. For sure, we need consciousness to animate the CPU, but the message that is received after de-coding what is seen / heard / sensed / collapsing the waveform] happens within the cerebral cortex. It is the perspective that is obtained from this de-coding activity that defines our level of consciousness.

And that is where our problems arise..... the inherent limitations of the CPU, as it currently exists, severely colour our perspectives, and thus, our perceptions.

Well, no, I'm afraid I can't agree with that. If quantum physics has shown us anything at all, then it is that consciousness -- to be defined in this context as "the mere act of observation" -- has enough influence on a process for changing the outcome of that process, and thus, collapse the wave function. This is not just a matter of us having physical bodies and having a brain to interface our mind with our physical senses.


I would be interested to read a list of things that you consider unable to interact with anything.

That list is very short: "nothing at all". Everything has a form of consciousness because everything is capable of interacting with something else. Even things we cannot see or measure in and of themselves -- e.g. dark matter -- are still interacting with the rest of the universe, and we can tell that from their gravitational effects on stars and galaxies.


Well, respectfully, I don't believe that such a notion can be applied across the board. We have to define the method and nature of creation that we are referring to. For example, there are many people of genius-level minds who are clueless, [or physically-unable], when it comes to creation using physical methods. Stephen Hawking comes immediately to mind.

I think that when it comes to scientists like Hawking, the ego comes into play. They believe (or want to believe) that they can explain everything in existence by way of the discipline they are schooled in, such as mathematics or physics. They can't, because they refuse to look beyond the physical realm.

It is reminiscent of the eternal "Republicans versus Democrats" debate in the USA. It's a senseless debate. On the one hand you've got the Darwinists and the scientists, and on the other hand you've got the religious people. Scientists reject spirituality, and religious people -- especially the fanatic ones -- reject science and see an act of a deity in everything, and even attribute that deity with very human properties, and ascribe laws to that deity which must be obeyed by mortals, lest they be excommunicated, locked up, tortured or even executed in some cases.


I refer to my previous comment about consciousness being the animating force behind the tools [the physical senses and the CPU] that are responsible for the creative process, whatever form such a creative process would take in the physical world.

That step is too big, in my humble opinion. Animation of a physical body is a result of both consciousness and mind, but is not what consciousness itself is. Or to put it in computer jargon, you've got higher programming languages -- e.g. C/C++, Pascal, et al -- and lower programming languages such as assembler. But you have to break things down even further in order to understand it, namely down to the pure binary opcodes.


I understand what you are saying. I was using these terms [male and female aspects of the brain] more in a colloquial vernacular than in a scientific sense.

I know you understood. I just wanted to outline it more clearly for other readers. A lot of information in this "alternative community" field is badly distorted by misuse of the vernacular, and that's how misunderstandings arise. It puts people off on the wrong foot. The community is, as such, creating its own misinformation. :-)


I believe this is similar to what I was suggesting.... namely, that men tend towards a more analytical approach to engaging with life, whereas women tend towards a more intuitive approach. Of course, there are degrees of such activity in both camps. However, the main problem for both males and females is the lack of full connectivity of the left and right hemispheres of the brain.

I'm not so sure there is such a lack of full connectivity. I think the brain functions very well, exactly because it is structured the way it is. :-)

Pris
14th April 2015, 22:50
I think Aragorn and Anarp are getting a little too brainy for me lol. :D Still, it's all good.


So many new good threads starting, thank you.

What is consciousness? Consciousness is the symptom of a living being, a soul. Consciousness cannot be manufactured, it is eternal, it cannot be separated from the soul. The soul is conscious and through consciousness free will is expressed.

All living entities have consciousness, trees, animals, crystals, humans, blue avians but that consciousness, or spiritual energy is covered by more or less material energy which will limit, to a greater or lesser degree the souls capacity for expressing consciousness.

A tree has relatively less capacity to express consciousness than a human, due to the limitations of the tree body, and a human has his/her limitations due to the human body, compared with the blue avians. But the soul within those different bodies is not different in quality or quantity.

You can observe yourself when you use your mind to think, you can observe your thoughts, the observer is the conscious soul.

The process of ascension or enlightenment we are going through is the purification and rising of vibration of the layers of material dust that is covering our soul our consciousness and it is driven by the souls desire. Ultimately the soul is perfect and complete and we are on our journey to discover that.

That is my two paisa.

Now, Cup, you just had to drop in a reference to the 'blue avians'? ;)

Here's my two paisa.

Should the 'blue avians' exist, who says that they have 'fewer limitations' expressing consciousness than a human being? First, ironically, we have to prove blue avians 'exist'.

And, assuming they exist, what if they're just another group of entities caught up in 4th density (if you believe that sort of thing) unaware (or FULLY aware) that they've not 'risen higher' and are living in their own self-contrived hierarchical wonderlands?

I'm not comfortable with the idea of 'hierarchies' of any kind -- either here or 'over there' (should 'over there' exist) -- and like to think of all life-forms/existence/consciousness on the same, horizontal path. Perhaps, we're just occupying different places along that path.

I would also suggest that we not underestimate the ability of a tree to express consciousness due to the 'perceived limitations' we suppose it has compared to us. We simply do not know enough IMHO.

Wind
15th April 2015, 01:08
What if 'true light' or whatever you would call it, is also a 'meme' and, as such, is also a trap? What if there's nothing 'on the other side' except us with our creative imaginations? What if there is no 'other side'? :)

Indeed, what if? We can't know for sure, so we just continue to assume things.

However there is this thing called gnosis which is instinctive knowing. :eyebrows:

Pris
15th April 2015, 01:25
Indeed, what if? We can't know for sure, so we just continue to assume things.

However there is this thing called gnosis which is instinctive knowing. :eyebrows:

...like to know when to duck? :whstl:

Wind
15th April 2015, 01:49
...like to know when to duck? :whstl:

...

http://oi57.tinypic.com/iyq441.jpg

Catsquotl
15th April 2015, 03:38
For starters I'll state that consciousness is everything we can become aware of.
Reason i'm stating it as this is that I hold the notion that certain aspects of consciousness are not easy to see without some form of training in observance.

This is my definition as I stated it a few days ago in another thread.
As some of the explanations earlier are a tad technical I won't get into the meat of those explanations. The above definition still stands though. As it is in the things we are aware of that we experience consciousness.

If gnosis equals instinctive knowing for me it would be some form of experiental consciousness as what else is it than the consciousness that knows the bare truth.

if you sit, know your sitting.
If you walk, know you are walking.
When you eat, know you are eating.
When you sleep. Well what do you know I usually remember sleeping, but mostly not when I am sleeping. So sleeping must be an unconscious act then?
From a bare reality perspective I can only speculate, even make very informed speculations about what sleep is. I can get some understanding of seep by observing others in the act of sleeping. So do we still call this knowledge gnosis?

WIth Love
Eelco

Anarp
15th April 2015, 06:45
Certainly some very interesting and thought-provoking comments. Thank you all for participating.

In the original post, I ventured my own definition of what consciousness might be, or mean..... viz: "A graduated state of awareness of the experience of being." This was an attempt to grasp a wider-than-human-consciousness understanding of the term.

I hadn't actually looked at what the dictionary said about it, which follows below:

consciousness
ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.
"she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later"
synonyms: awareness, wakefulness, alertness, responsiveness, sentience
"she failed to regain consciousness"
antonyms: unconsciousness
2.
a person's awareness or perception of something.
"her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"
synonyms: awareness of, knowledge of the existence of, alertness to, sensitivity to, realization of, cognizance of, mindfulness of, perception of, apprehension of, recognition of
"her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"

Predictably, the dictionary definition is restricted to human consciousness, and doesn't venture into the more murky domain of what universal consciousness might be, or how levels of consciousness may differ in accordance to vibratory patterns that are inherent in the ambient environment.


That's a very good post you have written there, Anarp. Although the only part I would disagree with is the "false light"-meme, I think that itself is a trap. ;)

Hi Wind......

So, I'm a little confused here.

Are you saying that the idea of there being a false-light recycling mechanism [constructed by the Archons] to get humans back into physicality as soon as possible, is essentially a fabrication of the people [Lash, Day, Icke etc] who write about it?

I can't be sure, but I believe that such a re-cycling mechanism was referred to in the original Nag Hammadi scrolls, from which all of the Archon and Gnostic teachings originated.

Thus, I am interested to understand how you would consider the dissemination of the alleged existence of a false-light re-cycling mechanism [by various authors], in the astral realms, to be a trap?

How can we be trapped by being advised not to follow the light after we die?



I think that when it comes to scientists like Hawking, the ego comes into play. They believe (or want to believe) that they can explain everything in existence by way of the discipline they are schooled in, such as mathematics or physics. They can't, because they refuse to look beyond the physical realm.

It is reminiscent of the eternal "Republicans versus Democrats" debate in the USA. It's a senseless debate. On the one hand you've got the Darwinists and the scientists, and on the other hand you've got the religious people. Scientists reject spirituality, and religious people -- especially the fanatic ones -- reject science and see an act of a deity in everything, and even attribute that deity with very human properties, and ascribe laws to that deity which must be obeyed by mortals, lest they be excommunicated, locked up, tortured or even executed in some cases.


Agreed! It has even been suggested that Hawking has been deliberately positioned in the spotlight of the scientific community because he represents controlled opposition to any opinion that may seriously threaten mainstream science..... like the earth being flat, for example.

I seem to recall a news item just recently that quoted a respected quantum physicist who was passing a caustic comment on the lamentable lack of knowledge within the quantum community.

Yes, here it is: http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2015/02/10/we-honestly-have-no-****ing-idea-what-were-doing-admits-leading-quantum-physicist/



If that link doesn't work, here's the script:

THEORETICAL Quantum Physicist Dr. Amit Goswami admitted today that he, and his peers, have absolutely ‘no ****ing idea’ what they’re doing, and claims they were no nearer than prehistoric man to figuring out the Universe.

“We have been just winging it to tell you the truth,” explained the 78-year-old in an exclusive interview with WWN. “Seriously, I haven’t a clue what’s going on. Either does anyone else in my field. We keep proving stuff that never actually happened”.
“Our cover is blown, what can I say? He added.

Dr. Goswami’s comments came after yet another alleged breakthrough in quantum mechanics which claims the universe has existed forever, as opposed to being created by a ‘big bang’.

“Over the years there have been just a handful of us pretending to know something about the universe that no one else does,” he went on. “But this is all lies to feed the charade. I’ve had some great times during the years; travelling the world, and giving talks on our pretend finds”.

When asked how he got away with it for so long, he replied: “I found out a long time ago that everything can be proven with a mathematical equation. Now, I mean everything; from unicorns, fire-breathing dragons, God and even the G-spot. None of it is true. Me and the handful that know the truth have been riding the Quantum Physicist celebrity wave for quite some time now, but it must end – before someone gets hurt”.
The University of Oregon professor warned that the European Organisation for Nuclear Research, known as CERN, could potentially wipe out the entire planet if the project is not put to a halt.

“Seriously, when myself, Higgs and Ben (Benjamin Lockspeiser CERN’s first president) first pitched the idea, we never thought it would get funding. It was gonna cost billions for Christs sake,” he recalled. “**** knows what the thing does – no one does. Firing particles at each other at the speed of light can’t end well. I’m just worried now we took the joke too far”.

Ending the interview, professor Goswami apologised for “spoofing” everybody over the years.

“I’m coming near the end of my days now and I just want to get this off my chest,” he said. “I just hope the world can forgive us”.



What if 'true light' or whatever you would call it, is also a 'meme' and, as such, is also a trap? What if there's nothing 'on the other side' except us with our creative imaginations? What if there is no 'other side'? :)


Hi Pris......

Indeed.... what if the theories of the Yellow Rose for Texas are true, even remotely?

What she is saying is that we live in a 'server' as bytes of computer code - similar in essence to the suggestion made by the Wachowski brothers, in the Matrix trilogy of movies.

All of our experiences - she says - are nothing more than programmes being acted out by Avatars, while we, as the Soul energy behind the movie set, watch from a distance.... or rather, from a different state of beingness.

If the powers-that-be have convinced us that the Earth is a globe that revolves anti-clockwise at over 1000 mph, near a sun that's contained in a solar system that's revolving around the galaxy at hundreds of thousands of mph, and that the galaxy is revolving around something else at a gazillion mph...... yet not a breeze here on the ground.......

We are told - variously - that the sun is somewhere between 75 and 150 million miles away from the Earth, and yet, a simple sextant and Pythagorean principles measure it at only 3000 miles distant.....

Etc etc etc...... we really have to dig very deep and decide, ultimately, that nothing we have been taught in our schools is either factual, correct, or even relevant to our emerging real selves.

Aragorn
15th April 2015, 09:19
If the powers-that-be have convinced us that the Earth is a globe that revolves anti-clockwise at over 1000 mph, near a sun that's contained in a solar system that's revolving around the galaxy at hundreds of thousands of mph, and that the galaxy is revolving around something else at a gazillion mph...... yet not a breeze here on the ground.......

Inertia. The same reason as to why you can have a cup of coffee on board of an airplane racing through the sky at 800 km/h -- or in the event of the Concorde, even 2'200 km/h. If Earth were to suddenly stop spinning, there would be massive tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes, and whatever other violent displacement of objects you can imagine.


We are told - variously - that the sun is somewhere between 75 and 150 million miles away from the Earth, and yet, a simple sextant and Pythagorean principles measure it at only 3000 miles distant.....

Atmospheric lensing. :-)



Etc etc etc...... we really have to dig very deep and decide, ultimately, that nothing we have been taught in our schools is either factual, correct, or even relevant to our emerging real selves.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that nothing is either correct, factual or relevant, but for a large part of what we think we know, that is true, yes. Over here in Europe for instance, the education system is specifically being tailored to accommodate the requirements of the labor market (and thus: the corporations) rather than to stimulate children into finding out what resonates with them and letting them develop their individual talents.

Everything is (over-)industrialized. It's perverse.

Wind
15th April 2015, 09:23
How can we be trapped by being advised not to follow the light after we die?

We have talked many times about these beliefs before here and everywhere else too so I'm not too fond to debate about it again. I'm just giving my two cents. To me the concept is a trap, because it instills an false idea to people's mind while possibly causing them to fear death. "What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere."

Do you know what happens to some earthbound souls (also known as ghosts) when they are afraid to go the light? They become a nuisance here on Earth while bothering us mortals, they can even latch on to some people's auras while draining their life force. Then there are all those poor souls who have died suddenly or the ones who have died violently and cannot or do not know how to move on and they remain here and linger before they receive guidance... Mean spirited souls there are too. Some souls do not go the light because they are afraid of punishment, or "implant stations", perhaps. So they just remain in limbo while partially co-existing with us here. Of course there are many people and beings who can guide them back to the light, where they are supposed to go. Not into some implant stations, but back into home. Spirit realm.

To me it seems that most people dismiss thousands of NDE-reports just as "implanted visions" or something like that, which to me doesn't make any sense. There is a reason for us to be here and that is to learn. When we die, we see what we have achieved during our lifetime. No one or nothing swipes our memory away, in the spirit world we remember who and what we truly are and also we remember all of our past lives. Here in the this current life all the information about past and future lives is irrelevant, although highly fascinating to the conscious mind. However, if we had the knowledge it would only hinder our process. When we choose to enter another womb, we do it while aknowledging that as souls we will have to go through the veil of forgetfulness. That doesn't mean that we forget everything, in fact many children remember a lot from the past lives. All that information fades out gradually as we get more attuned into this current body and also when our personality/ego develops.

So in short, no I do not believe in that particular myth which has been misinterpreted. However, the opposing force (archons etc.) do try to control us here on Earth by influecing us and our minds. The mind can be manipulated in soo many ways, it can actually be our weakest link believe it or not. Do you think that the dark ones are all-powerful? No they're not. Their powers are only fairly limited, although they are seemingly more powerful than we humans at the moment. However, above the archons all the overseers or guardians who are watching the play here on Earth. They are making sure that the universal laws are being obeyed, meaning that the game will be at least somewhat fair. No manipulation of the souls. Make no mistake, spiritual warfare has been occurring here on Earth for eons. Dualistic universe so I suppose there always has to be an opposing force, it keeps the game interesting.

Although I suspect that in the next "level" (of consciousness) we will experience life from an nondualistic viewpoint so that kind of adversity will not be needed any longer, at least not in this way. There will be other lessons. Here it's about making choices, in higher kingdoms the lessons are more "easier". In the next dimension it would be about love, here we barely even understand what it means. Or else this world wouldn't be such a mess as it is.

I don't want to sound condescending, but it seems like most people don't have the correct understanding about why reincarnation happens and what is the universal law of karma. It's about having self-responsiblity, it's about learning and growing through adversity. That's what life is all about.

So, I much more prefer the age old esoteric knowledge.


Reincarnation and Karma (http://blavatskyarchives.com/blavatskykarmareincarnation.htm)

by H.P. Blavatsky

Reincarnation means that this Ego will be furnished with a new body, a new brain, and a new memory. Therefore it would be as absurd to expect this memory to remember that which it has never recorded as it would be idle to examine under a microscope a shirt never worn by a murderer, and seek on it for the stains of blood which are to be found only on the clothes he wore.

But if [the Ego] is punished in this life for the misdeeds committed in the previous one, then it ... ought to be rewarded also, whether here, or when disincarnated. And so it is. ... Crimes and sins committed on a plane of objectivity and in a world of matter, cannot receive punishment in a world of pure subjectivity. We believe in no hell or paradise as localities; in no objective hell-fires and worms that never die, nor in any Jerusalems with streets paved with sapphires and diamonds. What we believe in is a post-mortem state or mental condition, such as we are in during a vivid dream.

Our present lives and circumstances are the direct results of our own deeds and thoughts in lives that are past. ... If our present lives depend upon the development of certain principles which are a growth from the germs left by a previous existence, the law holds good as regards the future. Once grasp the idea that universal causation is not merely present, but past, present and future, and every action on our present plane falls naturally and easily into its true place, and is seen in its true relation to ourselves and to others. Every mean and selfish action sends us backward and not forward, while every noble thought and every unselfish deed are stepping-stones to the higher and more glorious planes of being. If this life were all, then in many respects it would indeed be poor and mean; but regarded as a preparation for the next sphere of existence, it may be used as the golden gate through which we may pass, not selfishly and alone, but in company with our fellows, to the palaces which lie beyond.

Once that you have assimilated all the details you will see that for logic, consistency, profound philosophy, divine mercy and equity, this doctrine of Reincarnation has not its equal on earth. It is a belief in a perpetual progress for each incarnating Ego, or divine soul, in an evolution from the outward into the inward, from the material to the Spiritual, arriving at the end of each stage at absolute unity with the divine Principle. From strength to strength, from the beauty and perfection of one plane to the greater beauty and perfection of another, with accessions of new glory, of fresh knowledge and power in each cycle, such is the destiny of every Ego, which thus becomes its own Saviour in each world and incarnation. In other words, it can return to the original state of the homogeneity of primordial essence only through the addition of the fruitage of Karma, which alone is able to create an absolute conscious deity, removed but one degree from the absolute ALL.

Anarp
15th April 2015, 15:08
Inertia. The same reason as to why you can have a cup of coffee on board of an airplane racing through the sky at 800 km/h -- or in the event of the Concorde, even 2'200 km/h. If Earth were to suddenly stop spinning, there would be massive tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes, and whatever else violent displacement of objects you can imagine.



Atmospheric lensing. :-)



I wouldn't go so far as to say that nothing is either correct, factual or relevant, but for a large part of what we think we know, that is true, yes. Over here in Europe for instance, the education system is specifically being tailored to accommodate the requirements of the labor market (and thus: the corporations) rather than to stimulate children into finding out what resonates with them and letting them develop their individual talents.

Everything is (over-)industrialized. It's perverse.

Hmmm.... well, my friend, I have only just started my investigation into the validity of the Heliocentric model, so I am still in the data-gethering stage.

Suffice it to say that this is very hotly-debated subject [heliocentrism versus geocentrism], and there is already a thread on this forum dedicated to this endeavour.

In the meantime, I have found a great deal of truth in this video, which is intelligently edited, and tends to promote the science behind the Flat Earth argument, rather than throwing cold water at the Global model.... although there is quite a bit of the latter, as well!

See what you think: Flat Earth Podcast with Eric Dubay and Mark Knight

In this highly-informative and humorous podcast President of the International Flat Earth Research Society and webmaster of AtlanteanConspiracy.com, Eric Dubay, talks with fellow conspiracy author and webmaster of WaykiWayki.com, Mark Knight. Topics covered include flat Earth science vs. ball Earth pseudo-science, the various proofs/evidence for the geocentric flat Earth and debunking the supposed proofs/evidence for the heliocentric ball-Earth, the North Pole and South Pole (or lack thereof) and the Antarctic ice-rim, the Sun, Moon, eclipses, seasons, Polaris, stars, planets, NASA, the fake Moon and Mars landings, the controlled opposition Flat Earth Society vs. the legitimate International Flat Earth Research Society, and disinformation agents like Mark Sargent (codename: Sargent Non-Sense)


Source: www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5aB6oThGK8

www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/ [Eric Dubay's website]

Aragorn
15th April 2015, 16:08
Hmmm.... well, my friend, I have only just started my investigation into the validity of the Heliocentric model, so I am still in the data-gethering stage.

Suffice it to say that this is very hotly-debated subject [heliocentrism versus geocentrism], and there is already a thread on this forum dedicated to this endeavour.

[...]

Source: www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5aB6oThGK8

www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/ [Eric Dubay's website]

Oh boy... The flat earth hypothesis and the badly warped pseudoscience behind it... <shakes head>

Anarp
15th April 2015, 16:14
[QUOTE=Wind;841916521]We have talked many times about these beliefs before here and everywhere else too so I'm not too fond to debate about it again. I'm just giving my two cents. To me the concept is a trap, because it instills an false idea to people's mind while possibly causing them to fear death.

Thank you for your detailed reply, Wind. I have a few remarks to make on this subject, as it is not too-far-removed from the discussion about Consciousness.

May I respectfully ask how you can be so certain that the Archontic tunnel-of-light-trap is a "false idea"?

I agree that such a notion of astral skullduggery flies in the face of many New Age teachings concerning the afterlife, and that such a notion may induce a fear of death. However, one of the most prevailing and all-encompassing fears that presently impacts the human collective, is already the fear of death!

I would add that most of the information concerning what happens to the soul after it leaves the body [always assuming that a soul exists!] has entered the collective consciousness [of those who care about such matters], via the likes of Madame Blavatsky [et al], dating back to 1865 when she founded the Theosophical Society, and who you have quoted below..... a well-respected advocate of Karmic principles.

For a long time I have found nothing, in terms of conflicting information, with which to challenge the notions put forward by Blavatsky....until just recently, when I have been questioning everything that I have ever learned, or accepted as true, about just about everything, but especially New Age teachings.

Is the principle of Karmic balance, as propounded by the Blavatsky advocates, just another flawed theory? Who really knows for sure? How are we to know that the notion of Karma is not another programme, amongst many, in a world that only seems to be real from our limited, five-sensory interpretation? Is the principle of the existence of Karma a purposeful tool used by the Archons to render feelings of overwhelming guilt, resulting from the tiniest of peccadilloes, thereby inculcating feelings of unworthiness to enter the higher realms?

I don't know, and neither does anyone else who currently resides in a physical body. All we can do is repeat what other people have said on the subject.


"What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere."

I agree! And the idea that currently pervades the human collective is the one that says "follow the white light down the tunnel"! Is this possibly the biggest deception that we have ever encountered.......... created by the worst parasites the world has ever known...... mind-parasites?


Do you know what happens to some earthbound souls (also known as ghosts) when they are afraid to go the light? They become a nuisance here on Earth while bothering us mortals, they can even latch on to some people's auras while draining their life force. Then there are all those poor souls who have died suddenly or the ones who have died violently and cannot or do not know how to move on and they remain here and linger before they receive guidance... Mean spirited souls there are too. Some souls do not go the light because they are afraid of punishment, or "implant stations", perhaps. So they just remain in limbo while partially co-existing with us here. Of course there are many people and beings who can guide them back to the light, where they are supposed to go. Not into some implant stations, but back into home. Spirit realm.

Again, this is merely a New Age hypothesis. We have no proof of why spirits move on, or don't move on....or even if there is anywhere to move on to! All we have is reams and reams of spiritual theosophy and channelled New Age gobbledegook that remains unproven and unprovable to this day.


To me, it seems that most people dismiss thousands of NDE-reports just as "implanted visions" or something like that, which to me doesn't make any sense. There is a reason for us to be here and that is to learn. When we die, we see what we have achieved during our lifetime. No one or nothing swipes our memory away, in the spirit world we remember who and what we truly are and also we remember all of our past lives. Here in this current life all the information about past and future lives is irrelevant, although highly fascinating to the conscious mind. However, if we had the knowledge it would only hinder our process. When we choose to enter another womb, we do it while acknowledging that as souls we will have to go through the veil of forgetfulness. That doesn't mean that we forget everything, in fact many children remember a lot from the past lives. All that information fades out gradually as we get more attuned into this current body and also when our personality/ego develops.

Well, you speak with great authority on a subject that is based in myth and superstition! Certainly people report Near-Death and Out-of-Body experiences, and many are very similar. But, how do we know we are not all living within the same computer terminal, running the same programmes? How do we know for sure if any of this is real? How is it possible to be absolutely sure of what exists here until we are fully and completely clear of its influences?


So in short, no I do not believe in that particular myth which has been misinterpreted. However, the opposing force (archons etc.) do try to control us here on Earth by influencing us and our minds. The mind can be manipulated in soo many ways, it can actually be our weakest link believe it or not. Do you think that the dark ones are all-powerful? No they're not. Their powers are only fairly limited, although they are seemingly more powerful than we humans at the moment. However, above the archons all the overseers or guardians who are watching the play here on Earth. They are making sure that the universal laws are being obeyed, meaning that the game will be at least somewhat fair. No manipulation of the souls. Make no mistake, spiritual warfare has been occurring here on Earth for eons. Dualistic universe so I suppose there always has to be an opposing force, it keeps the game interesting.


May I ask if you have ever been in the company of a so-called "Guardian" or "overseer"? Or are you just repeating something that someone else has said, and which appeals to your sense of what might be worth hanging on to, as truth?

Because, you see, this notion of Guardians, or Guardian Angels, is NOT universally accepted as being true..... merely in New Age circles. And we all know that the entire New Age network was co-opted and hijacked by the CIA many moons ago. Or rather, we should do!

Anarp
15th April 2015, 16:28
Oh boy... The flat earth hypothesis and the badly warped pseudoscience behind it... <shakes head>

Wow, that was quick. So you watched the entire 2-hour video, and then came to your "pseudoscience" conclusion? Or, are you running the same real--science programme that has been installed in all of us from school days?

Funny, those who have looked at this subject with an open mind often come to the conclusion that there is far more scientific evidence supporting the Flat Earth theory, than there is supporting the Globe Earth theory.

But, never mind. I don't feel inclined to discuss this here.

Aragorn
15th April 2015, 16:48
Wow, that was quick. So you watched the entire 2-hour video, and then came to your "pseudoscience" conclusion? Or, are you running the same real--science programme that has been installed in all of us from school days?[...]

No, I only watched a short part of the video, and I did read the text at that second link -- Eric Dubay's website. Furthermore, this topic isn't new. It has been around for quite a while, so I'm familiar with it.


Funny, those who have looked at this subject with an open mind often come to the conclusion that there is far more scientific evidence supporting the Flat Earth theory, than there is supporting the Globe Earth theory.

But, never mind. I don't feel inclined to discuss this here.[/COLOR]

For one, the numerics are all wrong, and conveniently cloaked in US American and Imperial measurements, while the rest of the world uses the metric system. And then there are also conveniently overlooked things while focusing on falsehoods. The lighthouses for instance. Just as they say you should still be able to see a lighthouse 30 miles away, standing on the cliffs of Dover, you cannot see the lighthouses on the European mainland's coastline, and that too is about 30 miles.

There's a lot more, and it's all of the same kind of pseudo-scientific evidence as there is for Creationism -- just for clarity's sake, please note that I am not disputing Creation but rather the Abrahamic-fundamentalist religious belief called Creationism -- and for the hypotheses therein that Earth would be only 6'000 years old and that humans and dinosaurs would have lived peacefully side by side in the Garden of Eden.

Ask any pilot who has ever been so high as the stratosphere as to whether Earth is flat, and they will all tell you that it isn't. Must be quite a lot of liars out there then, only so as to cover up that Earth is actually flat.

Really guys, come on... :-)

sarahdita85
15th April 2015, 17:09
The only reason i dont trust the yellowrosefortexas material (although im grateful for it as it started the awakening process for me) is that i asked a few questions and got hounded and called a troll/dirty s**t/whore/paid shill for asking a few questions respectfully, with yellowrose herself egging them on, so i dont follow her anymore as it upset me quite a bit and seems to be a bit cultish.

Divine Feminine
15th April 2015, 18:25
Hi Wind......

So, I'm a little confused here.

Are you saying that the idea of there being a false-light recycling mechanism [constructed by the Archons] to get humans back into physicality as soon as possible, is essentially a fabrication of the people [Lash, Day, Icke etc] who write about it?

I can't be sure, but I believe that such a re-cycling mechanism was referred to in the original Nag Hammadi scrolls, from which all of the Archon and Gnostic teachings originated.

Thus, I am interested to understand how you would consider the dissemination of the alleged existence of a false-light re-cycling mechanism [by various authors], in the astral realms, to be a trap?

How can we be trapped by being advised not to follow the light after we die?
We have talked many times about these beliefs before here and everywhere else too so I'm not too fond to debate about it again. I'm just giving my two cents. To me the concept is a trap, because it instills an false idea to people's mind while possibly causing them to fear death. "What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere."

To me it seems that most people dismiss thousands of NDE-reports just as "implanted visions" or something like that, which to me doesn't make any sense.

I don't want to sound condescending, but it seems like most people don't have the correct understanding about why reincarnation happens and what is the universal law of karma. It's about having self-responsiblity, it's about learning and growing through adversity. That's what life is all about.

So, I much more prefer the age old esoteric knowledge.

Amen to that brother! One can believe whatever they want to believe, but it does not necessarily mean we will all face the same reality, that is what the new science is showing us today. If David Icke is saying the light is a trap than he's going against his past comment in which he stated, "They can control your mind, they can control your body, but they can't control consciousness."

Let me see if I can offer a different viewpoint for Anarp in a more comical sense when I answered this question once before:

The thought process of many, omits consideration of the available science. But that's ok because here's what I think you should do:

1. Run away from the light...wait...don't run, sprint as fast as you can.
2. Don't look within, ask others what to do as you have no power and can't think for yourself.
3. Only accept fear based ideologies because you're more comfortable vibrating at lower frequencies.
4. Absolutely without a doubt, ignore all science and ancient text, as it's just meaningless crap that no one can understand anyways.

Do all those things and you will be just fine as the hologram will respond accordingly to your beliefs.

Now I would tell you, don't believe me, don't even listen to what I say, go out there and discover for yourself as to follow anyone without exploring on your own merely puts you in the very sheeple environment your are trying to escape.

Anarp
15th April 2015, 19:10
The only reason i dont trust the yellowrosefortexas material (although im grateful for it as it started the awakening process for me) is that i asked a few questions and got hounded and called a troll/dirty s**t/whore/paid shill for asking a few questions respectfully, with yellowrose herself egging them on, so i dont follow her anymore as it upset me quite a bit and seems to be a bit cultish.

OK, please understand that I am also highly skeptical of most of what is coming from YRFT.

She starts out with a highly-critical exploration of NASA, via her video The Lie NASA Told. In this video she states quite clearly that all images from NASA are either fabricated, or doctored, to hide what is really happening outside of this fishtank we call Earth.

I certainly agree that NASA is an agency that purposefully lies about outer space, and I am certainly aware of the lies of the church, and of the corporate Illuminati complex to which she alludes.

But, then she loses me. All manner of external saviourship and salvationist memes creep into her narrative, mirroring the exact script that comes to us, both from mainstream religion, and from its New Age equivalent.

I have yet to figure out what her angle is...... what she is getting out of the cult following that has eagerly gathered in her shadow, waiting breathlessly for [I]The One and Eve to finish fighting off the forces of evil, after which we, the righteous, will be delivered to a New Edenic Earth, with incorruptible bodies.

Sorry, not buying that part.


Divine Feminine;841916650]Amen to that brother! One can believe whatever they want to believe, but it does not necessarily mean we will all face the same reality, that is what the new science is showing us today. If David Icke is saying the light is a trap than he's going against his past comment in which he stated, "They can control your mind, they can control your body, but they can't control consciousness."

David Icke is also known to have changed his opinion on a number of other subjects. I believe this is the hallmark of an open mind. As new evidence surfaces, he is willing to drop, or change his perspectives. Many people are unable to change their minds on what they see as fundamental principles, because, by doing so, they have to admit that they were foolish enough to have been blinded by the lies of the education system.

The most fervent of these unwavering belief systems, and the one that is least likely to be dropped, even in the face of unequivocal evidence, is the one that is driven into our skulls with hammer drills, from birth. Religion.


Let me see if I can offer a different viewpoint for Anarp in a more comical sense when I answered this question once before:

[B][SIZE=3]The thought process of many, omits consideration of the available science. But that's ok because here's what I think you should do:

1. Run away from the light...wait...don't run, sprint as fast as you can.
2. Don't look within, ask others what to do as you have no power and can't think for yourself.
3. Only accept fear based ideologies because you're more comfortable vibrating at lower frequencies.
4. Absolutely without a doubt, ignore all science and ancient text, as it's just meaningless crap that no one can understand anyways.

I'm afraid that the use of sarcasm and cynicism is probably not the best way to discuss this subject. If you have something constructive to say, then I will listen.

Divine Feminine
15th April 2015, 20:27
Anarp,
What I told you is constructive and that's the point, but you're not understanding the message. I'm trying to help you think for yourself. Why are you relying on others to tell you how to think? I've tried to keep the message as short as possible in addition to adding humor. Because if you chose to do the above you see how silly it seems. Ask yourself this, is the message you're considering fear based or love based? Do you understand the vibrational consequences of the choices you make or are being asked to make(and yes there's science behind this, it's not a new age theory)? Do you understand that you live in a holographic universe? Do you know what that means? Did you know belief systems vibrate at a frequency? Did you know realities are controlled by belief systems. Did you know your brain shuts down when you operate in fear and that you are more controllable?

These are the questions one should be asking. If I proceed forward in detail I will be accused of going off topic and derailing the thread. If you operate in fear the hologram will respond accordingly, that's how it works. This is why I suggest you look it up for yourself because most likely you will never believe me or anyone else as what I'm currently sharing doesn't fit into your belief system...why? Because you haven't acquired the proper knowledge base yet to make the decision. You control your consciousness, no one else, otherwise 'the game' wouldn't work, David Icke knows this....the funny thing is, those illuminati inspired movies he's well aware of and has mention, which are written and edited to fit the desired programming, demonstrate illusions within illusions and it appears to be the character's role who controls the outcome, now isn't that interesting. You live in a world that's been contrived and influenced by over dominating patriarchal concepts...so what I'm asking is why o' why are we following all these men who have done nothing but proven time and time again that their moral compass is well out of alignment? Can you pass the butter please?

Pris
15th April 2015, 20:42
We have talked many times about these beliefs before here and everywhere else too so I'm not too fond to debate about it again. I'm just giving my two cents. To me the concept is a trap, because it instills an false idea to people's mind while possibly causing them to fear death. "What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere."

Do you know what happens to some earthbound souls (also known as ghosts) when they are afraid to go the light? They become a nuisance here on Earth while bothering us mortals, they can even latch on to some people's auras while draining their life force. Then there are all those poor souls who have died suddenly or the ones who have died violently and cannot or do not know how to move on and they remain here and linger before they receive guidance... Mean spirited souls there are too. Some souls do not go the light because they are afraid of punishment, or "implant stations", perhaps. So they just remain in limbo while partially co-existing with us here. Of course there are many people and beings who can guide them back to the light, where they are supposed to go. Not into some implant stations, but back into home. Spirit realm.

To me it seems that most people dismiss thousands of NDE-reports just as "implanted visions" or something like that, which to me doesn't make any sense. There is a reason for us to be here and that is to learn. When we die, we see what we have achieved during our lifetime. No one or nothing swipes our memory away, in the spirit world we remember who and what we truly are and also we remember all of our past lives. Here in the this current life all the information about past and future lives is irrelevant, although highly fascinating to the conscious mind. However, if we had the knowledge it would only hinder our process. When we choose to enter another womb, we do it while aknowledging that as souls we will have to go through the veil of forgetfulness. That doesn't mean that we forget everything, in fact many children remember a lot from the past lives. All that information fades out gradually as we get more attuned into this current body and also when our personality/ego develops.

So in short, no I do not believe in that particular myth which has been misinterpreted. However, the opposing force (archons etc.) do try to control us here on Earth by influecing us and our minds. The mind can be manipulated in soo many ways, it can actually be our weakest link believe it or not. Do you think that the dark ones are all-powerful? No they're not. Their powers are only fairly limited, although they are seemingly more powerful than we humans at the moment. However, above the archons all the overseers or guardians who are watching the play here on Earth. They are making sure that the universal laws are being obeyed, meaning that the game will be at least somewhat fair. No manipulation of the souls. Make no mistake, spiritual warfare has been occurring here on Earth for eons. Dualistic universe so I suppose there always has to be an opposing force, it keeps the game interesting.

Although I suspect that in the next "level" (of consciousness) we will experience life from an nondualistic viewpoint so that kind of adversity will not be needed any longer, at least not in this way. There will be other lessons. Here it's about making choices, in higher kingdoms the lessons are more "easier". In the next dimension it would be about love, here we barely even understand what it means. Or else this world wouldn't be such a mess as it is.

I don't want to sound condescending, but it seems like most people don't have the correct understanding about why reincarnation happens and what is the universal law of karma. It's about having self-responsiblity, it's about learning and growing through adversity. That's what life is all about.

So, I much more prefer the age old esoteric knowledge.

With all respect, how do you know all this to be true? To me, it sounds like fear programming to, not only make you 'believe in the light', but to get you to 'go into the light'.

Anarp
16th April 2015, 07:52
Anarp,
[QUOTE]What I told you is constructive and that's the point, but you're not understanding the message.

Divine Feminine....... I would be grateful if you would please not make any more assumptions about what I think, how I think, or what I know.


I'm trying to help you think for yourself.

Excuse me? Such a comment could easily be interpreted to be supercilious, patriarchal, and presumptive. However, I will just stick with rude, for now.


Why are you relying on others to tell you how to think?

Is it not true that everything we think, everything we say, is based upon what someone else has previously said, or claimed? If we lived in a world where only one person existed, then there would be no others to tell us what to think! However, there is a big difference between allowing someone to tell us what to think [fascism], and collating information from a wide variety of sources in order to formulate an opinion on a topic. I have read many books on a wide variety of subjects that relate to eschatology and ponerology, and it is from this knowledge base that I have formulated my opinion.

Knowledge, it is said, is merely the accumulation of information. It is when such information is analysed and formulated that a pathway to wisdom is created. Wisdom is the distillation of knowledge.

Now, with respect to the topic in question...... whether or not there is a false-light-tunnel in the afterlife, it seems to me that the wise choice would be to assume that there is such a trap. Why? Because, first, if we arrive on the other side of the veil with no knowledge of the possibility that such a trap exists, and the trap is real, then we fall into it. Second, by passing through the veil with the knowledge that there is a possibility of a false-light tunnel trap, we give ourselves the sovereign choice to determine our future, one way or the other.

If there is an Archon-created trap on the other side of the veil, then our prior knowledge of its existence will enable us to bypass the trap, and proceed to whatever exists beyond the Matrix prison. If no such trap exists, and yet, we elect to attempt to ignore the genuinely-benevolent white light lure, then its benign nature will permit our choice, and assist us in a non-intrusive way to understand its beneficent nature. Nothing will be lost.


I've tried to keep the message as short as possible in addition to adding humor.

Both the brevity and the humour seem to have been lost on this reader!


Because if you chose to do the above you see how silly it seems. Ask yourself this, is the message you're considering fear based or love based?

It is based on self-preservation, and a need to avoid any further impositions. So, neither of the above.


Do you understand the vibrational consequences of the choices you make or are being asked to make(and yes there's science behind this, it's not a new age theory)? Do you understand that you live in a holographic universe? Do you know what that means? Did you know belief systems vibrate at a frequency? Did you know realities are controlled by belief systems. Did you know your brain shuts down when you operate in fear and that you are more controllable?

Do you?


These are the questions one should be asking. If I proceed forward in detail I will be accused of going off topic and derailing the thread. If you operate in fear the hologram will respond accordingly, that's how it works. This is why I suggest you look it up for yourself because most likely you will never believe me or anyone else as what I'm currently sharing doesn't fit into your belief system...why?

To make ONE conscious choice not to follow the lure into a possible trap is NOT a belief system. A belief system - religious, philosophical, ideological - [like Catholicism] - involves following codes and dogmas that are dictated by people who have placed themselves in positions of power. I like to think that I don't have any structured belief systems dictating what I think or how I act. My mind is malleable, yes, but it is under MY control, and is not subject to the manipulation by anyone else's dictums.


Because you haven't acquired the proper knowledge base yet to make the decision.

Please try to steer clear of these presumptuous statements.


You control your consciousness, no one else, otherwise 'the game' wouldn't work

This is what the thread is designed to discuss. Namely: What is consciousness? What percentage of our consciousness resides within the body? Are there any unseen, malevolent mechanisms in place that have an element of control over our consciousness? To what extent are consciousness and mind intertwined? Are we really sovereign beings, or are we controlled by mind-parasites?

These are some of the many questions that are addressed in the writings of John Lash, Cameron Day and Robert Stanley, to name just three authors on this multifarious subject. I would respectfully suggest to you that there are no one-size-fits-all, axiomatic answers to these multi-layered questions.


David Icke knows this....the funny thing is, those Illuminati inspired movies he's well aware of and has mentioned, which are written and edited to fit the desired programming, demonstrate illusions within illusions and it appears to be the character's role who controls the outcome, now isn't that interesting. You live in a world that's been contrived and influenced by over dominating patriarchal concepts...so what I'm asking is why o' why are we following all these men who have done nothing but proven time and time again that their moral compass is well out of alignment? Can you pass the butter please?

I don't believe that David Icke's moral compass is out of alignment; nor am I a follower of any one author.....merely a reader of many.

Pris
16th April 2015, 08:11
If the powers-that-be have convinced us that the Earth is a globe that revolves anti-clockwise at over 1000 mph, near a sun that's contained in a solar system that's revolving around the galaxy at hundreds of thousands of mph, and that the galaxy is revolving around something else at a gazillion mph...... yet not a breeze here on the ground.......


Inertia. The same reason as to why you can have a cup of coffee on board of an airplane racing through the sky at 800 km/h -- or in the event of the Concorde, even 2'200 km/h. If Earth were to suddenly stop spinning, there would be massive tsunamis, hurricanes, earthquakes, and whatever other violent displacement of objects you can imagine.


We are told - variously - that the sun is somewhere between 75 and 150 million miles away from the Earth, and yet, a simple sextant and Pythagorean principles measure it at only 3000 miles distant.....

Atmospheric lensing. :-)


Are you sure? What if 'inertia' and 'atmospheric lensing' are part of 'the grand illusion'?

Catsquotl
16th April 2015, 08:18
Should we say we are consciousness. Or we have consciousness.
we can also turn it around. consciousness has us. or even consciousness is us.

I find I am getting a clearer picture on the nature of consciousness that I have of I.
For now still adopting the buddhist explanation tho.

Consciousness arises by itself when certain conditions are met.
Sticking to the senses. there is a sense base. say an ear.
Then a sense object say a sound.

These two combined create the basis on witch the consciousness of hearing can arise.
The consciousness of hearing in turn triggers the mind into thoughts about what it hears. based on previous experience it either categorizes the sound into a concept that it created before and labels it thus. It doesn't remember and investigates using the consciousness of different sense bases and creates a new concept. Or it simply acknowledges hearing as the endpoint of this particular rising of consciousness.

With Love
Eelco

Anarp
16th April 2015, 08:30
Are you sure? What if 'inertia' and 'atmospheric lensing' are part of 'the grand illusion'?

Hey ho.... I said I wasn't going to get into a debate on this subject, but I couldn't resist this:

www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2011/11/earth-is-not-moving.html

Before Copernican heliocentric indoctrination any child will look up at the sky and notice that the sun, moon, and stars all revolve around a stationary Earth. All empirical evidence from our perspective clearly shows that we are fixed and everything rotates around us. We feel motionless and experience the sun, moon, stars and planets spinning around us. To suspend this common sense geocentric perspective and assume that it's actually the Earth revolving beneath us daily while rotating around the sun yearly is quite a theoretical leap.

"What strikes you as being some thoughts that people would have if - in the short space of a few weeks - the universally held conviction that the Earth rotates on an axis daily and orbits the sun annually were exposed as an unscientific deception? Keep in mind that a rotating, orbiting earth is not counted as a mere hypothesis or even a theory anywhere in the world today. Oh no. Rather, this concept is an unquestioned 'truth'; an established 'fact' in all books and other media everywhere, church media included. Copernicanism, in short, is a concept that is protected in a bunker under a 50 foot thick ceiling of solid 'scientific' concrete. It is meant to be impregnable. It is a concept that has become ensconced in men’s minds as the indestructible cornerstone of enlightened modern man’s knowledge. Virtually all people everywhere have been taught to believe - and do believe - that this concept is based on objective science and dispassionate secular reasoning." -Marshall Hall, "Exposing the Copernican Deception"

"Every experiment ever designed to detect the motion of the earth has failed to detect earth's motion and/or distinguish it from relative counter motion of the universe." -Mark Wyatt, "Is Geocentricism Possible?"

Right up through the 20th century many attempts have been made to try and prove that heliocentricity is true and geocentricity is false. All such attempts have failed and only reinforced geocentricity. The most-well known of these is the Michelson-Morley experiment which attempted to measure the change in speed of light due to the assumed motion of Earth through space. They measured in every different direction in various places on the Earth's surface and failed to detect any significant change whatsoever. The Michelson-Gale experiment also failed to prove heliocentricity but was able to measure the movement of the aether/firmament around the Earth accurate to within 2%. An experiment known as "Airey's Failure" involves filling a telescope with water to slow down the speed of light inside. Usually telescopes must be slightly tilted to get the starlight down the axis of the tube supposedly due to "Earth's speed around the sun." Airey discovered that actually the starlight was already coming in at the correct angle so no change was necessary. This demonstrated that the stars move relative to a stationary Earth and not the other way around; if it was the telescope moving he would have to change the angle.



[QUOTE=Eelco;841916776]Should we say we are consciousness. Or we have consciousness.
we can also turn it around. consciousness has us. or even consciousness is us.

All of the above? But to what degree, that is the question.

Consciousness exists, but to what extent is our full capacity of consciousness available to us when we are in these meat suits?

I would suggest very little. As far as I can tell, we are severely restricted, both genetically, and in terms of sensory deprivation.

People who have recounted NDEs or OBEs, have often remarked on how impossibly-small the human body appeared when compared to the expansiveness of the unencumbered spirit - or soul energy.

Many authors have speculated on the possibility that we are a mixture of Reptilian and human genes.... as evidenced in the process of foetal development.

These same authors have suggested that the inclusion of Reptilian [Annunaki] DNA in our bodies gives the Reptilians an element of control over us. Do they control just our bodies, or do they also control an element of our consciousness?

Catsquotl
16th April 2015, 09:04
All of the above? But to what degree, that is the question.

Consciousness exists, but to what extent is our full capacity of consciousness available to us when we are in these meat suits?

I would suggest very little. As far as I can tell, we are severely restricted, both genetically, and in terms of sensory deprivation.


All of it, All of the time. If consciousness exists based on conditions as I believe it is merely a matter of attuning to and setting in place the causes that allow it to arise.
Even though we seem to be bound to our meat suits we don't have to identify with it. Samatha meditation for instance allows one to experience states of consciousness that appear without the sense bases for instances.

More here...
samatha jhanas (http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/samatha+jhanas+)

With Love
Eelco

I think the main problem is that we see consciousness as a unified whole.
Seeing it that way cases us to think that everything we call consciousness is somehow based in equal measure from the same consciousness substance.

Because of that we can ask about the measure of consciousness we are able to hold for instance.
Or if we find parts of it eludes us we invent an entity that is able to hold all of it as once.

I fall into that misconception often also. And then start wondering about that big conscious being that i think exists.
AN experience I had when playing with different modes of the human energy model. At some point i started to experience my body as operation from a single centre.(as opposed to the 7 chakra centers). When walking through the woods like that i felt my boundary expand for about 25 to 50 meters all around. I was aware and somewhat conscious of the unity within that field including the trees and some of the critters in there.

In retrospect even though I exprienced it like that, i was not aware of every individual treebranch or even every single tree. even though we all made up that unifying/unified experience of a 50 meter diameter circle..

With Love
Eelco

Anarp
16th April 2015, 10:03
Here's Cameron Day's perspective on the false-light tunnel:

http://aetherforce.com/ending-the-light-worker-scam-by-cameron-day/

Ending the Light Worker Scam by Cameron Day

It has been a while since I published a long article, and I have been working for many hours on this follow-up to the August article, Why I Am No Longer a Lightworker. That piece generated a lot of positive responses, as well as tremendous resistance and scorn from those within the New (c)Age movement who are heavily invested in the illusions of the false light.

Source: http://www.ascensionhelp.com/blog/2013/11/21/tell-the-lords-of-karma-that-you-are-sovereign-no-longer-a-lightworker-part-2/

I know that much of what I revealed in that article was difficult to accept, but I am committed to Truth, wherever it leads.

This article is going to pick up where the last one left off, so if you haven’t already read the first part, please go read that first because the terms defined in Why I Am No Longer a Lightworker will be used here without any definitions.

The “Lords” of Karma

The false-light demiurgic parasites known as the “Lords” of Karma are perhaps the worst violators of free-will that I have encountered, second only to the corrupt demiurge itself. They are the primary gatekeepers that allow or deny beings access into and out of the demiurgic system, and as such, they must be exposed.

Their perversion of the natural law of karma is so staggering in scope that I will only be able to cover a small portion of it in this article. To begin with, they are responsible for forcing beings to reincarnate over, and over, and over (and over) again, in clear violation of Universal Law.

In the “Free Universe” outside of the corrupt demiurgic enslavement system, a being is free to incarnate onto any planet that they choose.

When a being’s physical life comes to an end (after hundreds, perhaps thousands of years), they return to Infinite Source for a rest, and then decide what they want to do next in order to continue to learn and grow. Nowhere in this process is a hierarchical group of controlling, manipulative beings like the “lords” of karma present.

As you can see by my use of quotes around the word “lords,” I despise calling them that at all. So in my usual style, I have given these beings a new, somewhat sarcastic name: The Turds of Karma. I started calling them this after an encounter several months ago when I was removing deep layers of imposed agreements that they were trying to hold in place. At one point in the process I forcefully told them, “You are the biggest pieces of sh** that I have ever seen. I don’t owe you ANYTHING. YOU owe every single being that you have manipulated a debt that you will never be able to repay!” At that point, they left very quickly.

After that, the name Turds of Karma just kind of stuck. Although it is somewhat juvenile, I think it fits, and I hope that you will think of them in this same way, so that you won’t be fooled by their con-artistry now, or later when you depart from the physical realm. With that bit of renaming out of the way, let’s explore some of the ways the Turds of Karma (ToK) manipulate beings.

The Light Review Scam

The primary tool that the ToK use to manipulate a being into accepting nearly endless reincarnation is the (false) “Light Review.” When a person’s body dies, they move out into the astral realms and begin to shed most of their previously held identity.

wannabe-lords

If this process were allowed to occur without interruption, the True Light of that being would emerge from within them and they would release layer upon layer of limiting beliefs generated in that incarnation.

However, within the realms of the demiurgic control system, what happens is that the ToK intercept that being just as their light is starting to emerge from within and surround them in a dazzling display of colorful external light. (This is why most of the people with near-death experiences report going through a tunnel of light.) The dazzling outer display distracts the being from the light emerging from within them and hypnotizes them through frequency entrainment and activation of any and all religious programming that being had been exposed to during their incarnation.

The ToK and other members of the Spiritual Liararchy such as arch(on) “angels” and “ascended masters” will often be present in the background during this process. As the individual is filled with a feeling of universal love and connectedness, they are told that this feeling is coming into them from the external “beings of light” that are surrounding them.

However, this feeling of universal oneness and love is actually emerging from INSIDE of the being, and it is being reflected back to them by the ToK and the liararchy. The individual doesn’t have any time to reflect on what is happening, because they are quickly moved into the “review” phase of the process. They are shown a little movie of their life which focuses on the disappointments, unfulfilled desires, painful experiences and hurtful actions the person experienced during their life.

shedding-old-identity

Through this biased and manipulated “life review,” the being is made to feel bad about their life, which is exactly what the ToK want.

They tell the person that even though they failed at so many things in their life, that they will be given a chance to go back one more time and “get things right” in a new incarnation. The being is then grateful at this chance for redemption and accepts the agreements that the ToK present them with to incarnate again.

If that being was raised with a Christian type of indoctrination, they will encounter “Jesus and the angels” but be told that they are “not yet worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Of course, the fear of being sent to hell is so strong in their belief system that they JUMP at the chance to reincarnate and become “worthy” to enter “God’s kingdom,” which is actually the demiurge’s kingdom.

After agreeing to reincarnate, the being is then sent to a “heavenly realm” in the middle to upper astral realms to await reincarnation. This realm is nicely decorated with simulations of nature, lovely views and a staff of “guardian angels” who make sure those beings go back to earth when their time comes. Of course, those “guardians” are actually parasitic sheep-herders tending to their flock, and there is NO allowance for the beings held in this realm to go elsewhere.

Karmic Transference

If the content of an individual’s life, unhealed wounds and unfulfilled desires isn’t enough to convince them that they need to reincarnate, they are presented with an even more brazen deception. They are shown what they are told is their own past life where they committed horrible crimes, and they are told that they need to continue incarnating into adverse conditions in order to “work off” that bad karma.

truth-vs-lies2

In reality, the life they are shown is NOT theirs, but rather the actions of some being closely aligned with the liararchy who made pacts with them to avoid taking energetic responsibility for their actions.

Some of that criminal being’s malicious energy is then projected onto the individual who is being tricked into believing that they were once that horrible criminal.

That being then takes on agreements to “discharge” the “bad karma” that they have (supposedly) earned for themselves, never realizing that it was all a lie designed to keep them subjugated and enslaved. This is done to coerce the being’s agreement to reincarnate and take responsibility for crimes that they did not commit, ensuring that the person’s next life is going to be filled with undue hardship.

This karmic transference also allows those dark sorcerers who have aligned with the liararchy to avoid the repercussions of their own actions. This transference is also used on a large-scale upon the populace of the planet through forms of mass mind-control and media manipulation. To properly explain that will require a separate article, but the basic mechanism for how this is done is through subconscious agreements embedded throughout the media, corporate logos (sigils), financial contracts, admiralty law and other “matrix institutions.”

Coerced Demiurgic Entry Agreements

One more very important aspect of the agreements that are put upon beings by the ToK are the original “entry agreements” that the beings coming into the corrupt demiurgic realm are forced to make in order to even gain entry into this system. Many of us came here from what I call “The Free Universe” to help dismantle the demiurgic system from within, and the liararchy imposed an extensive list of coerced agreements upon these “Free Souls” in order to limit their effectiveness.

These entry agreements also contain clauses that allow for unspecified hardships to be leveled against a being during their incarnation, including but not limited to: Birth bump to bad parents, physical abuse, sexual abuse, psychic attacks, etheric implantation, dream-manipulation, recruitment into the false-light’s “lightworker corps,” relationship issues, health problems, money problems, physical abduction and implantation, lack of self-worth and much more.

entry-agreement

Most of the Free Universe beings coming in were pretty confident they could overcome those limitations, so they signed up.

There really was not much option, but some of us negotiated more fiercely than others and were saddled with fewer of these pernicious agreements, but no one came in “unscathed.” Regardless of how many coerced entry agreements we have, it is important to remove all of these agreements in order to get clear and proceed with our chosen tasks of healing and waking up others, as well as pulling apart the demiurgic construct from the inside.

Revoking Agreements

This is the process that I use and have been sharing with others in clearing out agreements. The liararchy hides copies of these agreements in various realms, so specificity is important in this process. It is also important that you engage this process from your Sovereign Inner Self (Higher Self, Divine Inner Self, etc) and that you make this process your own. Just reading revocation statements will not get the job done. We need to be consciously engaging this process using the force of our will to effect the changes we desire.

I have found that once a person starts revoking agreements, it becomes easier over time to dig deeper to find more of them. Be aware that agreements often are splintered off into various fragments in order to make them harder to find. For example, there may be agreements to have difficult romantic relationships, difficult relationships with parents, with siblings, with friends, etc. These are all different “agreement clusters” that need to be specified and removed in separate processes.

galactic-vacuum03

So don’t worry about getting rid of every agreement all at once. Take your time, and work through them on a daily basis as you sense them affecting you. The process outlined below is based on the Self-Clearing System Level 1 and Level 2, which form the foundation for the energy clearing work that I do.

Stand in the power of your Divine Inner Self’s Sovereignty. Expand the light of your Divine Inner / Higher Self from your heart, surrounding your body in a Heart Sphere of Sovereign energy.


Connect to Earth’s Core, Galactic Core, Infinite Source and the Forces of Divine Source Light.


Ask for a Galactic Vacuum to be ready to remove everything into the Galactic Core. (This is a funnel cloud of galactic core energy that vacuums up everything needing to be removed and transmuted.)


Call up all agreements related to “feeling like a victim” (or anything else) on this timeline and all other timelines in the past, present and future, and within all dimensions, densities, levels, realms and realities.


Call forth all reinstatement clauses, copies, back-ups, mirrors, counter-party copies, etc of the agreements.


State, “From the Inner Authority of my Sovereign Self, I declare ALL of these agreements null and void. I revoke ALL of these agreements as well as all counterparty copies, reinstatement clauses, duplicates, back-ups, mirrors, etc of everything previously named.”


Proclaim, “I reclaim ALL of my energy that has gone into these agreements.” As your energies, essences, soul fragments, etc come back to you, reintegrate them through your heart center.


Command, “I send all of these agreements and all facets previously named into the Galactic Vacuum to be transmuted in the Galactic Core.”


Call forward all “counter party copies” of these agreements and send them into the galactic vacuum for transmutation. These are copies of the agreements held by parasitic beings who drain small amounts of your energy via those agreements. Some of those beings might claim to be “lords” of karma in order to exert authority over you. Don’t believe any of their lies.


Tell those demiurge beings : “I am Sovereign. All of you parasitic ‘counterparty’ beings are hereby notified that you are FORBIDDEN from EVER affecting my energy again. If you do attempt to violate my sovereign energy sphere, I will FORCEFULLY send you to the Galactic core to be transmuted. While transmuting will be the best thing that has ever happened to you, it’s possible that you will not emerge if there is nothing left within you to salvage and transmute. You have been warned.”


Next, offer those demiurgic counterparty beings an opportunity to step into the Galactic Vacuum to be taken to the Galactic core and transmuted. Some of them will take this opportunity so that they can be free from the Demiurge’s control and hierarchical enslavement.


Declare, “I remove ALL imprinting, implants, overlays, beliefs, perceptions, attitudes, identities, frozen emotions, etc related to these agreements.” Ask your Divine Inner Self to direct a Galactic Vacuum throughout your unconscious mind, subconscious mind, and all throughout your sphere of consciousness to remove all of these components, and anything else related to these agreements.


Next, expand the light of your True Sovereign Inner Self to fill in all the areas that you have cleared. This allows the Truth of who you really are to replace the false constructs that have been removed.


Call forward and Restore the original agreement that you made with Infinite Source to incarnate into this troubled realm and to carry Source Light in your incarnation. Let the loving power contained within that original agreement dissolve any remaining constructs related to those old, artificially imposed agreements.


The most important part of all of this is your WILL to make this happen. Get a little angry if you need to, harness any righteous indignation you have and use the FORCE of your WILL.


Affirm often: “I am sovereign and no one is allowed to take my energy.”
“I am sovereign and no being or non-being is allowed to infringe on my sovereign space.”
The Galactic Vacuum

This is a tool that I use on a daily basis in removing limiting energies, defending my Sovereign energy boundaries, as well as helping clients to do the same. Any thought-form, etheric implant or soulless being put into the vacuum is taken to the Galactic Core to be transmuted back into pure energy. Any beings with a soul sent to the Galactic Core are either transmuted, cleansed of their darkness and rehabilitated or dissolved back into basic energy (destroyed).

karmic-transference

Either outcome is fine with me, although I am always rooting for them to emerge as healed, sane beings who can become productive members of the universe once again. Whether or not a being is healed and restored or it is destroyed is between them and Source. I do not make that decision, I am simply serving as a galactic conduit to send that being to look in the Galactic Mirror, take responsibility for its actions and hopefully heal and regain sanity.

I do warn these beings one time that they are NOT permitted to infringe on my Sovereign energy and that they need to back off or I will use defensive force in order to send them to the Galactic core. Most of them will make a show of standing down, but will try to send in an energetic probe or “feeler” later in order to continue their agenda. When I sense this, I go to the source of the incursion along with multiple Galactic vacuums and “clean house.”

About half of these parasitic, demiurgic beings can be redeemed and transmuted back into sane, productive members of the free Universe. That is actually a pretty good ratio, considering how far into fear, insanity, control, enslavement, abuse, manipulation, destruction and hierarchy these beings have gone.

Universal Law & Defensive Force

In most New (c)Age doctrines, it is considered “unspiritual” or “unevolved” to even consider the use of defensive force. A good little new-ager is apparently supposed to let people and parasitic beings walk all over them, steal from them, drain their energy, manipulate / implant them, and harm them in any manner they choose. Not only that, but they should also suppress any “negative emotions” so that they will be basically “happy victims” of such abuses. This manipulative, deceptive “teaching” comes from the false-light, and nothing could be further from the real truth.

hierarchy02

The Prime Universal Law is very simple: All beings are Sovereign and have free will to express their creative urges in any way they choose, but no being has the right to violate and harm others.

The corollary to that law is also very simple: Because all beings are Sovereign, they have the right to defend themselves from harm, using whatever level of force is necessary to stop the violation from occurring, even if it results in the destruction of the one inflicting the harm.

The enslavers and deceivers of the Spiritual Liararchy are in clear, total violation of Universal law. They avoid the Natural “Law of attraction,” which reflects a being’s actions back to them, by coercing and manipulating other beings into agreeing to be victimized and enslaved, as well as convincing other beings to take on responsibility for their crimes through karmic transference.

The demiurgic being’s many layers of deception are predicated on the BIG LIE that we are separate from Infinite Source. The false-light beings then build upon this lie by convincing beings that Universal Law doesn’t exist, that individuals have no inherent right to self-defense, that they must submit to the will of the Turds of Karma’s “authority,” and that people must worship the psychopathic demiurge and his “angelic” beings in order to be granted entry into “God’s kingdom” one day.

The real truth is that we have NEVER been separate from Infinite Source, as that is a metaphysical impossibility. A being can choose to ignore their connection, believe it is not there, and even believe that they have severed that connection, but belief in a lie does not make it true, because Truth (capital T) is not relative.

As a metaphoric example, imagine if a group of human beings decided to sever themselves from the atmosphere by only breathing air from a SCUBA tank. Are they really separate from the atmosphere? No. They still exist within the atmosphere, even if they are breathing a seemingly separate source of air.

Nevertheless, the demiurgic beings have fully committed to their own illusion of separation from Source, and therefore must find an alternative source of energy, which they derive from humanity in the form of worship, adoration, beliefs, counterparty contracts, distorted sexuality, deception, confusion, apathy, struggle, pain, suffering, hate, death, etc. (Going on a spectrum of energetic “gourmet food” to “junk food” for the parasitic beings in that example.)

The LAST thing the liararchy wants is humanity coming to an understanding of Universal Law and how thoroughly we have been enslaved through deceit. The INSTANT we declare “I am Sovereign and NO being has ANY right to take my energy from me” the game changes radically. From that space of knowing that we are Sovereign Individuations of Source, we can exercise our Sovereign Rights, including righteous use of defensive force.

Right & Wrong

Another false-light teaching that infects the New (c)Age movement is that there is no such thing as right and wrong, that everything is just an experience that is there to teach us a lesson. While it is true that we can learn valuable lessons from adverse circumstances, this does not mean that it is necessary or desirable to be continually oppressed, manipulated, implanted, deceived, enslaved and drained of energy. Those are experiences the human race has had far too much of already.

right&wrongsm

With an understanding of Universal Law, we can observe that it is inherently wrong to harm another being who has done nothing to harm us. We can also understand that working together and cooperating with others is often the right thing to do. These simple concepts should be adhered to in order for us to free our minds from the twisted “logic” presented in New (c)Age teachings that would have us believe that the incredible amount of suffering inflicted upon humanity is entirely its own doing, as well as a wonderful learning experience, so we should not take any action to help others to alleviate their own suffering.

Were African-American slaves having wonderful learning experiences? How about the Irish and Scottish indentured servants before them? How about the medieval serfs who could be executed at the whim of the king or one of his minions? No, these people were clearly being enslaved, which is easily recognized as something that is wrong to do.

Similarly, humanity is not having a wonderful learning experience by being enslaved to the corrupt demiurge’s spiritual liararchy. We are learning one thing for sure though, which is how to declare our Sovereignty and stop being slaves! Well, many of us are. :-)

Hierarchy

One of the major roots of these worldly and metaphysical problems is the concept of hierarchy. Everywhere we look in the world, we have (usually male-dominated) hierarchical systems of organization. Hierarchy is an insidious, disempowering system of authority, obedience and enslavement that we MUST transcend in order to begin to heal ourselves and our world.

Likewise, we must also transcend “spiritual” hierarchies that foster enslavement, subservience and blind obedience. The corrupt demiurge and its minions of archon-angels, fake ascended masters, ETs, demons, etc are the ultimate representation of degenerate hierarchy that consumes life-force and leaves only destruction in its wake.

Transcending metaphysical hierarchy is a process of self-liberation / clearing, gaining self-knowledge, gaining knowledge of Universal and Earthly Natural Law, and exercising our Sovereign Will. First, we have to KNOW through and through that we are fully connected extensions of the Divine Infinite Source of all creation. When we know that, not just think it on an intellectual level, we realize that there is NO legitimate authority outside of ourselves. There is only inner authority and self-governance, which when guided by understanding of Universal Law prohibits us from instigating actions that would harm another.

Enlightened Self-Governance and adherence to Universal Law is the foundation for a free society. Only with this foundation in place will we be able to avoid the ego trap of exerting “authority” over others to control and regulate their behaviors which do not harm anyone else.

Only through Enlightened Self-Governance will we be able to build an entirely new type of society that is self-organized to solve problems and see to the needs of the many as a genuine expression of the desire to cooperate and make a world that benefits everyone. This has to be an ever-evolving, co-creative process that we will continually discover as we engage it.

Every idea needs to be tested and applied where it is willing to be accepted in an open-source manner through voluntary participation of all individuals involved in a non-hierarchical, uni-level, self-organizing process. This requires an entirely new way of thinking, organizing and taking action, and all old models of centralized, top-down authority need to be abandoned, because as we have already seen, any attempts to impose a single “best system” onto the world will always result in oppression and will ultimately fail.

We have within us the potential to FREE every single human being from the shackles of enslaving systems of hierarchy and external authority, to work together and create solutions to provide the basic needs of food, water, power, shelter, clothing, transportation and knowledge to EVERYONE on the planet. Creating self-generating systems to support all of these needs is totally achievable, but only if we can cooperate as sovereign individuals who respect the rights and boundaries of others.

Such a shift in our world depends on all of us to know that we are Sovereign, to proclaim our Sovereignty, delete our slave-think programming, and then to work together in cooperation as Sovereign individuals with a common goal of maximal empowerment of everyone on the planet.

Proclaiming Sovereignty

The process of proclaiming Sovereignty and removing the false programming that has been embedded into our psyches from multi-dimensional levels of control takes time and consistent effort. We need to proclaim daily “I am Sovereign, I am free. Only I can govern me.” (Or any other way you want to phrase it, since you are Sovereign after all. :-) )

sovereign01

We also need to put in the self-clearing work required to revoke all agreements that we have made, either consciously or subconsciously to give our power away to external authorities, to experience unnecessary suffering or limitations, to bear “karmic” burdens that are NOT ours to bear, etc. This is not a quick process, and I am going through my own version of it on a daily basis.

The liararchy does NOT respect free will, healthy boundaries, or your right to say NO to them. They use every possible type of manipulation, coercion and naked force to get their way. That is how patriarchal hierarchical beings work. (Notice the similarities in the words hierarchy and patriarchy, and the “archon” influence.) The aggressive, domineering energy of patriarchy seeks to control every facet of every being’s existence, taking and consuming everything that it possibly can.

This is represented physically (below) by corrupt hierarchical governments, secret societies and corporations exploiting people and the environment. It is represented metaphysically (above) by the corrupt demiurge and its legion of enslaved enslavers, of which the Turds of Karma are simply one division of the control grid.

This is why it is so important to remind those pesky “lords” of karma and ALL of the demiurgic parasites that you are SOVEREIGN, and be willing to utilize your Sovereign power to back up that statement. They don’t speak the language of love, so that means we need to use some force in order to get our point across.

This is How I See It…

It is difficult to uncover these things, to stare the most malevolent beings in the universe in the face and tell them that I am Sovereign and I will NOT permit them to violate me. Ironically though, in some ways it is even more difficult to share these revelations publically.

So many people are completely sold on their false-light “ascended masters, ETs and angels” who tell them what to do, how to think and how to live that they attack me for bringing this revelatory information to the public eye.

To those people, I say quite simply: Believe what you want to believe, but I am going to keep working on KNOWING the TRUTH, and taking appropriate ACTION to right the wrongs that have been done to humanity by the very beings that you are giving your power away to.

I choose to stand for Truth as a Sovereign Being alongside (not beneath) the Sovereign beings of the Free Universe who take action to oppose all forms of deception, parasitism and enslavement.

I thank those of you who will stand alongside, and take action with us.

Much Love,
Cameron Day
AscensionHelp.com
GeniusBrainPower.com

Aragorn
16th April 2015, 11:23
Are you sure? What if 'inertia' and 'atmospheric lensing' are part of 'the grand illusion'?

From the point of view of Source, everything is an illusion, Pris. The only thing that is actually real, is consciousness itself, which is part of the infinite information contained in Source -- I've explained this in more detail in my first post on this thread. Without consciousness itself, everything would be meaningless and therefore non-extant.

Cearna
16th April 2015, 12:03
Consciousness

What consciousness began as, was that someone coined the word, and it is now in use, under the guise of many different meanings.

The meaning of this word to me is :-
In opening your mind, there is always something new. In totality – it only gives up what you are willing to find of gentle Earth's pleasures of the mind.

Mind only takes in knowledge. (at this juncture I just want to say that this is distinct from the brain. The brain receives words on it surface, which it stores in cranial links to the Soul. The soul decides if it wants to store this information or not – if to be stored, it goes only to the Soul, for re-organisation into total life-long new information. If not to be stored, it goes to the mind, via neurons and receptors, which link to only remember or not. The mind sits close to the pineal gland, but is totally different. The brain is only energy currents, to better use the final trail of electrical access to the nerves and corresponding neurons. The mind never wants to store more than your capacity to use this knowledge).
The mind might take in rolling hills or plains, it might take in new and better ways to live, it might learn trigonometry, it might head towards a new chess game – This is all consciousness.

Healing is not consciousness, but learning to use the best methods, for a specific problem in the body – so consciousness to me is to learn new things.

The next thing is, what about the belief in a new thing learnt?
This is not a state of mind, this is the where withal l to discover the inspiration behind the knowledge learnt. If you see in junior school, an experiment showing that gas has pressure, and you see the can crumbling in on itself, you have learnt the idea that gas has pressure, and you believe it because you saw what happened. This has then validated the final link to one story of scientific fact. If you did the same experiment, expecting the same result on another planet, you might well get a different result, and you just might have to do some changing of your knowledge learnt, or alter your belief to another closely held belief of yours.

Then is not consciousness constantly ongoing? It depends on your need to find out. You may spend an entire lifetime learning only about different kinds of consciousness, however, that limits other tokens of life. This is consciousness that works in the mind alone. What if you are a very sensitive person? You could use consciousness to explore LOVE, but the mind can only store knowledge, your senses can tell you love is much more than knowledge of it, this is sensory perception.

Your soul might want you to explore all aspects of love – only today in the kitteh thread I saw examples of love between humans and felines. This is a palpable explanation of love. Soul, however, needs you to clarify in terms of good or bad love and realise what fears of life are related to love, such as - how do I keep my children in a loving environment, safe from harm? These learnt realisations will live in your soul forever. This is the only thing you will take along with you. The other inspirations or conscious awareness will help you to recognise the immensity that is totality for you now. Later, more will become Soul life to yourself.

Like or lump it, whether aware consciously or not, we all live up to demands fot the seeking of Truth.

Wind
16th April 2015, 14:20
Well, you speak with great authority on a subject that is based in myth and superstition! Certainly people report Near-Death and Out-of-Body experiences, and many are very similar. But, how do we know we are not all living within the same computer terminal, running the same programmes? How do we know for sure if any of this is real? How is it possible to be absolutely sure of what exists here until we are fully and completely clear of its influences?

I am humble enough to admit that I am no official authority in these issues and since I have no direct knowledge or memories from the time before, I cannot know for sure. I just have a very strong feeling about what is right and what is wrong, as a soul I have had thousands of lives before and now I am here. I think there are some universal truths like the law of karma, law of attraction, law of One and so forth. The ancients knew much more about these things since they actually had a direct connection to the spirit realm and now most of that information is completely lost and forgotten. Only some ancient texts have remained.

The eastern views are that when we are fresh souls, we come to the world to experience. Usually through eons of time through our experiences we gather knowledge and karma. That karma can be positive or negative based on our actions, we all have made mistakes in the past, some have been more serious than others. Eventually when the soul has progressed enough, it will reach a point of enlightenment and that will free the soul from the wheel of karma, samsara. We don't come here because we are forced, we come because we choose.

Especially during these critical times many pure and extremely advanced souls have come to Earth to aid in the shift process, souls who have no karma. They come only because they want to help while knowing that they too could gather karma from negative actions, but they also have a knowing that they do not want to have that karma by doing certain things. They tend to be very empathic.

I just find it fascinating that how some think that soul could be captured, because soul is consciousness and not something tangible like that. That conscious energy cannot be captured to some glass jar. There have been many thousands of people who have had NDE's and Michael Newton and Dolores Cannon have talked about them in their books, many others too. No mention of any soul capture devices. Only detailed descriptions of "heaven" or the spirit world and all of the information is very coherent.


May I ask if you have ever been in the company of a so-called "Guardian" or "overseer"? Or are you just repeating something that someone else has said, and which appeals to your sense of what might be worth hanging on to, as truth?

Because, you see, this notion of Guardians, or Guardian Angels, is NOT universally accepted as being true..... merely in New Age circles. And we all know that the entire New Age network was co-opted and hijacked by the CIA many moons ago. Or rather, we should do!

New Age is just a very broad term, although you could call it a belief system. For instance, a lot of channeled material is garbage as an information, perhaps we should call it fantasy. However, there are some gems like The Law of One, Seth Material and Bashar. Of course that is just my view, but many do share the same view.

I have not met any big creators or the gods, or Logos, but I have had connection with my higher self, angels and other spirits. Unfortunately the negative ones try to influence me, just like last night. I wonder if something prompted them to do that?


With all respect, how do you know all this to be true? To me, it sounds like fear programming to, not only make you 'believe in the light', but to get you to 'go into the light'.

As I said previously, I trust in my feelings about these issues. Deep understanding from within. Our conscious mind has only a very limited awareness while our higher self has much deeper understanding, we as human beins are only very small part of our whole package. Note that I am someone who does not believe in something, just because it sounds comforting. I have questioned many things and still do continue to do that and I use more discernment than many of people in the alternative scene do. All that being, I don't think this creation is evil or hijacked.

If it were so then there is no point to life other than to suffer. Why even bother to live? Suffering is a major part of life, but not just for the sake of it. We learn from it. The universe is just and sisters/brothers, we are the universe experiecing itself. It doesn't mean that if you have suffered a lot (I too have) that you would have been a bad person before or in this life. In fact the most bravest souls have chosen to endure suffering as much as possible, for that gives them more "plus points". I very much dislike the term "prison planet". This planet can be a prison or hell for us, if we make it so. It has been and it can be even more worse. We could also create a paradise out of it. As Alan Watts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7blUYJm6i-c) said it; Do you view yourself as the world or as the victim of the world?

Anarp
16th April 2015, 15:46
[QUOTE=Wind;841916866]I am humble enough to admit that I am no official authority in these issues and since I have no direct knowledge or memories from the time before, I cannot know for sure. I just have a very strong feeling about what is right and what is wrong, as a soul I have had thousands of lives before and now I am here.


How can you be sure, in a world of unlimited uncertainty, that you have had "thousands of lives" before now? If you had been brought up in a family that never spoke of such things, and you had never even heard of there being a notion of a soul, you wouldn't have made such a statement. You, like me, like everyone, are a product of your environment and experiences in this life. That's all we can remember for certain. And even some of that is speculative, where mind-control and time manipulation techniques have been used.

To be clear, all we have is what we are, right here, right now. What we might have been in the past, is pure speculation. What we might be in the future, is also speculation. Nobody has full conscious recall of previous lives; all we have is the notion that previous lives may have been experienced. As I said in my introductory post, time itself is a product of limited consciousness....... with the constructs of past and future falling squarely into the realm of illusion. There is only now. Everything else is being made up.


I think there are some universal truths like the law of karma, law of attraction, law of One and so forth. The ancients knew much more about these things since they actually had a direct connection to the spirit realm and now most of that information is completely lost and forgotten. Only some ancient texts have remained.

These are merely faux truths that we have been introduced to via the New Age network. These so-called universal laws have been designed by demiurgic forces with the specific purpose of keeping humanity in line, and to produce loosh, from which the Archons obtain their nourishment. Please see my previous post where Cameron Day explains this mammoth deception much more fully.

Here are the relevant extracts:


shedding-old-identity

Through this biased and manipulated “life review,” the being is made to feel bad about their life, which is exactly what the ToK want.

They tell the person that even though they failed at so many things in their life, that they will be given a chance to go back one more time and “get things right” in a new incarnation. The being is then grateful at this chance for redemption and accepts the agreements that the ToK present them with to incarnate again.

If that being was raised with a Christian type of indoctrination, they will encounter “Jesus and the angels” but be told that they are “not yet worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

Of course, the fear of being sent to hell is so strong in their belief system that they JUMP at the chance to reincarnate and become “worthy” to enter “God’s kingdom,” which is actually the demiurge’s kingdom.

After agreeing to reincarnate, the being is then sent to a “heavenly realm” in the middle to upper astral realms to await reincarnation. This realm is nicely decorated with simulations of nature, lovely views and a staff of “guardian angels” who make sure those beings go back to earth when their time comes. Of course, those “guardians” are actually parasitic sheep-herders tending to their flock, and there is NO allowance for the beings held in this realm to go elsewhere.



Karmic Transference

If the content of an individual’s life, unhealed wounds and unfulfilled desires isn’t enough to convince them that they need to reincarnate, they are presented with an even more brazen deception. They are shown what they are told is their own past life where they committed horrible crimes, and they are told that they need to continue incarnating into adverse conditions in order to “work off” that bad karma.

truth-vs-lies2

In reality, the life they are shown is NOT theirs, but rather the actions of some being closely aligned with the liararchy who made pacts with them to avoid taking energetic responsibility for their actions.

Some of that criminal being’s malicious energy is then projected onto the individual who is being tricked into believing that they were once that horrible criminal.

That being then takes on agreements to “discharge” the “bad karma” that they have (supposedly) earned for themselves, never realizing that it was all a lie designed to keep them subjugated and enslaved. This is done to coerce the being’s agreement to reincarnate and take responsibility for crimes that they did not commit, ensuring that the person’s next life is going to be filled with undue hardship.

This karmic transference also allows those dark sorcerers who have aligned with the liararchy to avoid the repercussions of their own actions. This transference is also used on a large-scale upon the populace of the planet through forms of mass mind-control and media manipulation. To properly explain that will require a separate article, but the basic mechanism for how this is done is through subconscious agreements embedded throughout the media, corporate logos (sigils), financial contracts, admiralty law and other “matrix institutions.”




The eastern views are that when we are fresh souls, we come to the world to experience. Usually through eons of time through our experiences we gather knowledge and karma. That karma can be positive or negative based on our actions, we all have made mistakes in the past, some have been more serious than others. Eventually when the soul has progressed enough, it will reach a point of enlightenment and that will free the soul from the wheel of karma, samsara. We don't come here because we are forced, we come because we choose.

Yes, that is what is stated about Eastern philosophy. As far as I am concerned, it's all mind-control, coming into our focus courtesy of Archontic forces. Why would we have all these lifetimes of experience where each new lifetime is started with no memory whatsoever of what we experienced previously? That's pointless! It's like putting us through a schooling curriculum and wiping our minds clean after each new year starts. Who would benefit from such an insane schedule? Certainly not humanity. Who or what kind of omniscient power would conjure up such an insane construct..... the Christian God figure? No..... this modus operandi has the fingerprint of Satanic influences all over it.

This is the real world we live in. It is not under the control of a benevolent force; we are controlled from one loosh-creating lifetime of fear, to the next, via hidden mind parasites, the Archons. This is all recorded in Coptic, in the Nag Hammadi scrolls, and has been translated into many books. The one I would recommend is: Not In His Image, by John Lash.


Especially during these critical times many pure and extremely advanced souls have come to Earth to aid in the shift process, souls who have no karma. They come only because they want to help while knowing that they too could gather karma from negative actions, but they also have a knowing that they do not want to have that karma by doing certain things. They tend to be very empathic.

This is just re-cycled New Age nonsense.


I just find it fascinating that how some think that soul could be captured, because soul is consciousness and not something tangible like that. That conscious energy cannot be captured to some glass jar. There have been many thousands of people who have had NDE's and Michael Newton and Dolores Cannon have talked about them in their books, many others too. No mention of any soul capture devices. Only detailed descriptions of "heaven" or the spirit world and all of the information is very coherent.


If you read David Icke's The Perception Deception, your question will be answered.



New Age is just a very broad term, although you could call it a belief system. For instance, a lot of channeled material is garbage as an information, perhaps we should call it fantasy. However, there are some gems like The Law of One, Seth Material and Bashar. Of course that is just my view, but many do share the same view.

I have not met any big creators or the gods, or Logos, but I have had connection with my higher self, angels and other spirits. Unfortunately the negative ones try to influence me, just like last night. I wonder if something prompted them to do that?

I think that, should you look a little deeper, you will find that there are NO clear channels of information, and that the entire New Age channelling network is either the work of a CIA supercomputer, or is the product of Archontic interference. We exist in a sealed container, and the border guards cover all the exits.


As I said previously, I trust in my feelings about these issues. Deep understanding from within. Our conscious mind has only a very limited awareness while our higher self has much deeper understanding, we as human beins are only very small part of our whole package. Note that I am someone who does not believe in something, just because it sounds comforting. I have questioned many things and still do continue to do that and I use more discernment than many of people in the alternative scene do. All that being, I don't think this creation is evil or hijacked.


In that case, you are either too young to have had the experiences that are necessary to sway your mind; or your mind has already been implanted with false information.


If it were so then there is no point to life other than to suffer. Why even bother to live? Suffering is a major part of life, but not just for the sake of it. We learn from it.

Yes, these are the questions we should be asking ourselves, if we really want to find the truth. If you can understand that we are merely cattle in an Archontic farm, where the produce is fear, then you will be able to start to connect some of the dots. We may well learn within one lifetime not to hit our hands with hammers, but, when the next life starts, out come the hammers again. The lesson is never learned, and there is no progression from one lifetime to another. Go figure.


The universe is just and sisters/brothers, we are the universe experiecing itself. It doesn't mean that if you have suffered a lot (I too have) that you would have been a bad person before or in this life. In fact the most bravest souls have chosen to endure suffering as much as possible, for that gives them more "plus points". I very much dislike the term "prison planet". This planet can be a prison or hell for us, if we make it so. It has been and it can be even more worse. We could also create a paradise out of it. As Alan Watts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7blUYJm6i-c) said it; Do you view yourself as the world or as the victim of the world?

Sorry Wind, but this is just a lot of chocolate-coated butterflies and rainbows that have been fed to us via people who don't want to confront the harsh reality of what is really going down on this pitiful planet.

Wind
16th April 2015, 15:56
You are of course free to believe that, Anarp.

Anarp
16th April 2015, 18:07
In one of the early publications by Neale Donald Walsch - Conversations with God book 1] - he refers to several components of consciousness.

Viz: He lists the conscious mind, the subconscious mind, and the superconscious mind as representing the three-part constitution of the wider consciousness, as experienced in the human condition.

The conscious mind, he says, is the part of us with which we make our day-to-day decisions, and with which we manufacture order in our lives. The subconscious mind operates out of our conscious control, he continues, and picks up codings from the quantum field that are not immediately accessible via the conscious thought processes.

He refers to the superconscious mind as being that aspect of us which operates from a dimension that is separate from our duality-based continuum. In addition, he refers to the superconscious mind as the soul, or steering aspect of our incarnation. The quiet voice from behind the veil that most of us can't hear!

This is just one of many perspectives concerning consciousness; one that adds another small branch to our discussion.

I have read all of Walsch's books, and gleaned a great deal of information from them, over a 15-year period.

However, I have to add that many of the books that he published after the success of the the initial three Conversations with God renditions, had little more to add to the story. I got the distinct impression in his later publications that he was simply milking his earlier success by releasing essentially the same material, but with a slightly different focus.

Catsquotl
16th April 2015, 18:16
I see a lot of references to the Soul in this conversation.
Has anyone here experienced his or her soul on a tangible sensate level as themselves?

I am wondering about that. For me the idea of soul is just that. an idea, much like the fact we talk about consciousness without a definition of what it is we are talking about. The whole karma thing comes into play as well. I know buddhism has knowledge or talks about rebirth and reincarnation. I can't escape the feeling that it's pointing to something way more mundane that the idea's most westerners hang on it..

Could be mistaken though. Some here know my views on how knowledge of past lives may come to pass. It's not what's most common. As it isn't me that experienced these past life's, but the imprints of the one who thought of the idea/intention that is seeking fulfillment or completion.

If I may suggest we first try to come to a definition of what we consider the realm of consciousness before we start branching out on the implications of semi-popular beliefs?

With Love
Eelco

InCiDeR
17th April 2015, 03:12
Great opening post Anarp and very interesting subject indeed.

I will try to catch up, just read the first post so far.

Meanwhile, I just throw my first thoughts out right off the top of my head.

To fully understand consciousness, would be like an avatar in a video game would be able to not only see but also re-write the source code of the game.
Meaning consciousness itself limits the understanding of itself, by itself, at least in this realm and perceived reality.

I might be wrong though.

So I will gladly join the dialogue as its unfolds.

Cearna
17th April 2015, 04:29
[QUOTE=Eelco;841916913]I see a lot of references to the Soul in this conversation.
Has anyone here experienced his or her soul on a tangible sensate level as themselves?

Yes Eelco, I have, I have talked to it many, many times. I can also talk to my husband's soul, since he needs the knowledge of what Soul is trying to get him to come to. His soul needs him to seek and find definite links to something far more than he is seeing in the "now". This is not too much to expect, for his soul led him to see in a new way, and he got stuck in the older way of a bench mark, to which all used to see enlightenment as. The newer right to seek, in risk of going against the older norms of olden days teaching - is not true to many other people now. They are in risk of having their fingers hit on the knuckles, like the nuns used to do in school if someone went against their dogmas.

We are now the newer version, of the very much older self we were when when we began this life. If we insist on living in the immensity of the olden day consciousness, begin as the near sighted one, they began as - for they were ringing in what their Souls were telling them was only riddles then. By accepting the eminence of the evil ones dogmas, we give up on the right to know real Truth in our words, lives and societies best intentions to be real loving people. If you ask to know who said it first, it wasn't the Buddha, nor Jesus, nor Mohammed, nor Melchisadek, nor Sonanda or other supposed enlightened ones, you will find this is what the Atlanteans spoke of, and their words only began in what is right to know, since Right to know is what true Consciousness is and our Souls know what this is, and so live to shed Light to you, against the minds of those, who wanted to stop life in your heart (Soul). These dogmas began in the days of the Temples of the Golden Calf and these teachings are what has been carried down the Ages to us as the Truth. You will get that AHA!! moment when your Soul realises you have just gone beyond the evilistic dogmas and have recognised with your true Self, one Truth to start you on the way to finding Your right to know and recognising when you find truth.

Please do not accept the fact that you cannot be in touch with your Soul or at least your Higher Sel who will guide you to what your soul wants you to find. Everytime I ask someone, if, during some really intense time in your life, and you possibly have to make choices. You sit down, to think it through - then sometime in those thoughts you think something, and you do a double take, wondering where did that thought come from, (not the voices most of you think are unreal, this is thoughts that come in the midst of other thoughts), this is your guidance, don't cast it aside think on it. Even Tarot reading can get you in touch with the needs of the soul, for you are presented with choices, do I want this to happen tome or not?

Your rigidity to think outside the box, to allow other links to soul, are what dogmas are for. Think on your own words too - sometimes "thinks" do become what you and your consciousness are.

Pris
17th April 2015, 05:03
Consciousness exists, but to what extent is our full capacity of consciousness available to us when we are in these meat suits?


Even though we seem to be bound to our meat suits we don't have to identify with it.

I like to use the term, 'vehicle'. :) 'Meat suit' sounds so.... meaty. :p Personally, I don't like to think of flesh as... meat.



Your soul might want you to explore all aspects of love – only today in the kitteh thread I saw examples of love between humans and felines. This is a palpable explanation of love.

That's wonderful! :smiley hug: It makes me happy that I am able to share a positive message with the kittehs.

I was thinking about it... and it seems I am most 'conscious' when others are 'conscious' of me. For this, I am most grateful.

Catsquotl
17th April 2015, 05:17
Right to know is what true Consciousness is

That's very near to my definition although you added one word and a letter.
Here's the one I use.
Right now is what true Consciousness is

With Love
Eelco


[QUOTE]
Yes Eelco, I have, I have talked to it many, many times.

Please do not accept the fact that you cannot be in touch with your Soul or at least your Higher Sel who will guide you to what your soul wants you to find.

You sit down, to think it through - then sometime in those thoughts you think something, and you do a double take, wondering where did that thought come from,

So a few questions arise from this.
As you are talking to soul or higher self. in my mind the fact I relate to it as something outside of my understanding of I means it can't be self.

Also when that soul thought arise. How in your experience does it distinguish itself from other thoughts? are there identifyable marks that accompany it?

With Love
Eelco

Anarp
17th April 2015, 07:46
If I may suggest we first try to come to a definition of what we consider the realm of consciousness before we start branching out on the implications of semi-popular beliefs?


LOL.... isn't that what we've been trying to do since the outset?!

I've already offered three differing definitions of what consciousness might constitute - one of my own, and two others from different people.

I very much doubt we will ever find one definition that suits everyone here. But that isn't the point of the conversation. We are here to explore possibilities, and expand our minds. It's not necessary to find common ground..... even though we probably will, in some areas.

It's not the destination that's so important, rather the journey that we're on.

:p


Great opening post Anarp and very interesting subject indeed.

I will try to catch up, just read the first post so far.

Meanwhile, I just throw my first thoughts out right off the top of my head.

To fully understand consciousness, would be like an avatar in a video game would be able to not only see but also re-write the source code of the game.
Meaning consciousness itself limits the understanding of itself, by itself, at least in this realm and perceived reality.

I might be wrong though.

So I will gladly join the dialogue as its unfolds.

Hi InCiDeR.....

Thanks for your introductory note.

I think it might be useful at this point to look at the meaning of the word Avatar, because it has two different definitions:


avatar
ˈavətɑː/Submit
noun
1.
HINDUISM
a manifestation of a deity or released soul in bodily form on earth; an incarnate divine teacher.
an incarnation, embodiment, or manifestation of a person or idea.
"he chose John Stuart Mill as the avatar of the liberal view"
2.
an icon or figure representing a particular person in a computer game, Internet forum, etc.
"conversation is depicted in a balloon over the avatar's head"

The Avatar in a video game that you refer to [above] would fall into the second definition, and would therefore not have the power to re-write source codes. Re-writing the source codes of the game would be the prerogative of the person [people] holding the control panel.

I believe that there is a strong possibility that all humans on this planet are actually no more than highly-sophisticated video game Avatars..... totally lost in the miasma of the artificial construct. We are given a small amount of individual choice in what we say and do, but this is really no more liberating than having the option to change the decoration on the prison walls. Ultimately, all we are doing is running round in circles, at the behest of a hidden hand.

To make life appear to be more real, or purposeful, we are fed endless amounts of brain fodder in the form of religion, science, theosophy, philosophy, mathematics, [etc], most of which has been fabricated by the controllers, and plastered over the roof of the prison, so that we can't see beyond it.

The vast majority of the world's population are too busy trying just to survive. They don't have time to sit down in front of computer screens and chew the literary cud, as we are doing. Even people in relatively prosperous and developed nations would consider it a luxury to be able to find time away from their daily grind, to wax lyrical about esoteric subject matter.... such as this. Just too busy with the nine-to-five job, the mortgage repayments, the credit card interest payments, the cost of schooling, medicare, household utility bills...... yada yada yada.... the endless grinding wheel of the Babylonian Debt Slave system.

And then they tell themselves they live in "The Land of the free, and the home of the brave". What a joke that is! It's just nationalistic, xenophobic programming that serves the interests of the corporate warmongers and the bankster elite..... all of whom are directly controlled by the Archons.

I believe it was Goethe who famously stated: "There are none so hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."

InCiDeR
17th April 2015, 10:14
[COLOR="#0000FF"]
The Avatar in a video game that you refer to [above] would fall into the second definition, and would therefore not have the power to re-write source codes. Re-writing the source codes of the game would be the prerogative of the person [people] holding the control panel.


Anarp, thank you for your reflection of my unreflected thoughts. What you so nicely clarified and straightened out was my intention and also one of my points with that statement. However, I see now in retrospective I could have made my composition of my lines clearer and easier to understand. I believe my thoughts came out unsorted and I allowed them to come together too fast.

As for the rest of your post...

You said something about finding common grounds. I believe we already have a foundation. :)

Anarp
17th April 2015, 15:59
No, but seriously peeps, look at the world we're living in.

What kind of all-knowing, all-loving, all-caring Source / God / Force would have created this mess? It must have been a really bad hair day in Heaven. Or was it six days? LOL!

Here we are, living in bodies that are subject to rapid degeneration after a mere 30 years..... that are prone any number of literally thousands of disease states, many of which are terminal..... that have only five senses with which to interpret the quantum field....... that are only able to see visible light...... that can't breathe under water...... that can only survive within a very narrow band of temperature...... that need a constant supply of oxygen to stay alive..... that need to eat three times in every 24 hour period in order to maintain energy....... that spend a third of their paltry lives asleep...... and who kill each other for a hamburger.

We live on a planet that is run by Satan-worshipping, sexually-perverted madmen [and women]....... where we can't move from one country to another without passports and without having to endure sexual molestation at airports....... where we have to breathe deliberately-polluted air....... eat deliberately-contaminated food.......where toxic fluoride is forced into our kitchens without our consent...... where we are approaching a time of mandatory toxic vaccinations....... where we are forced to use Neanderthal transportation technology, whilst far more advanced, and non-polluting technologies are suppressed and concealed........ where the pharmaceutical industry makes a profit out of illness, and has no intention of curing anything, while real cures for all disease states exist now, and have similarly been hidden from us.......where the banking corporations finance both sides in constructed wars so as to maximise profit in the clean-up operations....... where homeless people are now considered criminals and are discouraged from sleeping in the street by the installation of spikes and studs......where we are lied to by politicians, by scientists, by medical staff, by clergy, by people whom we trust to look after our interests, in every aspect of our sorry lives.

There's so much more..... but it's already sounding like a litany of woe.

It's as if we are suffering some kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome, where we have fallen into the trap of empathising with those who want to keep us hostages, steeped in servility and pauperdom.

Well, I for one DO NOT GIVE MY CONSENT TO ANY MORE OF THIS!

Michael Ellner summarises our plight eloquently, here:

“Just look at us. Everything is backwards, everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, psychiatrists destroy minds, scientists destroy truth, major media destroys information, religions destroy spirituality and governments destroy freedom.”


And we are having a debate about consciousness. Well, yes.

The point I'm making here is that the world wouldn't be the way it is, and our bodies wouldn't be as fragile and vulnerable as they are, if the entire Earth Project hadn't been taken over by malevolent forces, to use us as a food source.

There can be no other rational explanation. Only denial.

The New Age bombards us with pretty-sounding spiritual platitudes to keep us placated, and to stop us from looking at the bigger picture. We are told that: "we are the bravest of the brave", and that: "only the best were chosen to come here", and: "spiritual growth on this planet is faster than in any other place in the Universe", and: "there are no victims", and: "you fought for your opportunity to be here as a Lightworker, at this auspicious time."

It's all part of the programme, and it's all drivel. All of it.

The truth of it, is that we were trapped here against our will, aeons ago, and we haven't been able to escape. We're sealed into the farm like carefully-herded sheep, and woe betide anyone who ventures too near the electric fence...... like Branson, for example. Or Nicola Tesla, or Royal Rife, or Michael Jackson, John Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther King, Kurt Cobain, Jim Morrison, Whitney Houston....... need I go on?

It matters not from which node of the compass the saccharin-coated philosophy is sourced...... it's all just literary sedation, poured into our eager consciousness for the purpose of keeping us submissive and docile.

I don't know what the solution is.

Every day we get the latest version of the breathlessly-anticipated redemption-and-salvation-package, from externally-sourced saviours. Some even have blue heads and feathers. And the days come and go, come and go.... and nothing ever changes.

Catsquotl
17th April 2015, 17:42
I've taken the time to search for the definitions given in this thread, and added a last one paraphrased from the Abhidhamma from another consciousness thread.
I have some idea's about the workability of some of these. From most the following discussion seemed to go past the basic question What is consciousness and go to wider pastures of that part of consciousness one could call conjecture.



Consciousness is really a metaphysical concept, and can't be subjected to investigation or definition through currently-accepted scientific principles, in the way, for example, a mathematical algorithm can be scrutinised.
-----------------------
Consciousness is a graduated state of awareness of the experience of being. But it is more than that. It is the essence, and barometer, of life itself.
-----------------------
The answer that we give to the question what is consciousness?, from our present five-sensory state of being, is very different from the answer that would come from other realms of being...... other states of consciousness.
--snip-- Change the state of consciousness, and you change the perspective, which changes what is seen [de-coded], and what is therefore experienced.
-----------------------
So, what is a lower state of consciousness, as compared to a higher state?

A lower state of [human] consciousness is one which derives its perceived reality from a very narrow bandwidth of frequencies. A higher state of consciousness is one which derives its perceived reality from a wider band of frequencies.
-----------------------



] Consciousness, to me, is simply life itself; it is the ability of a particular thing in existence to interact with another thing in existence, to exchange information with said other thing in existence. Ergo, for me, everything has at least some form of consciousness, albeit not necessarily as we ourselves experience our own consciousness.


What is consciousness? Consciousness is the symptom of a living being, a soul. Consciousness cannot be manufactured, it is eternal, it cannot be separated from the soul. The soul is conscious and through consciousness free will is expressed.


For starters I'll state that consciousness is everything we can become aware of.
Reason i'm stating it as this is that I hold the notion that certain aspects of consciousness are not easy to see without some form of training in observance.


consciousness
ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.
"she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later"
synonyms: awareness, wakefulness, alertness, responsiveness, sentience
"she failed to regain consciousness"
antonyms: unconsciousness
2.
a person's awareness or perception of something.
"her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"
synonyms: awareness of, knowledge of the existence of, alertness to, sensitivity to, realization of, cognizance of, mindfulness of, perception of, apprehension of, recognition of
"her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"


Consciousness

What consciousness began as, was that someone coined the word, and it is now in use, under the guise of many different meanings.

The meaning of this word to me is :-
In opening your mind, there is always something new. In totality – it only gives up what you are willing to find of gentle Earth's pleasures of the mind.


He lists the conscious mind, the subconscious mind, and the superconscious mind as representing the three-part constitution of the wider consciousness, as experienced in the human condition.

The conscious mind, he says, is the part of us with which we make our day-to-day decisions, and with which we manufacture order in our lives. The subconscious mind operates out of our conscious control, he continues, and picks up codings from the quantum field that are not immediately accessible via the conscious thought processes.

He refers to the superconscious mind as being that aspect of us which operates from a dimension that is separate from our duality-based continuum. In addition, he refers to the superconscious mind as the soul, or steering aspect of our incarnation. The quiet voice from behind the veil that most of us can't hear!


To fully understand consciousness, would be like an avatar in a video game would be able to not only see but also re-write the source code of the game.
Meaning consciousness itself limits the understanding of itself, by itself, at least in this realm and perceived reality.


Right to know is what true Consciousness is


Right now is what true Consciousness is


Of those 4 Citta/Concsiousness is also 4-fold.
- Sense sphere consciousness
- Fine material sphere consciousness
- Immaterial sphere consciousness
- Supramundane consciousness

Citta is also defined 3 different ways.
- Citta as an agent, here citta is that which knows or cognizes an object.
- Citta as an instrument, Here citta is that by means of which the 52 mental factors cognize an object.
- Citta as an activity, where the process or act of cognizing an object is called citta.

With Love
Eelco

Pris
17th April 2015, 17:57
I've taken the time to search for the definitions given in this thread, and added a last one paraphrased from the Abhidhamma from another consciousness thread.
I have some idea's about the workability of some of these. From most the following discussion seemed to go past the basic question What is consciousness and go to wider pastures of that part of consciousness one could call conjecture.




Quote Originally Posted by "Anarp View Post
Consciousness is really a metaphysical concept, and can't be subjected to investigation or definition through currently-accepted scientific principles, in the way, for example, a mathematical algorithm can be scrutinised.
-----------------------
Consciousness is a graduated state of awareness of the experience of being. But it is more than that. It is the essence, and barometer, of life itself.
-----------------------
The answer that we give to the question what is consciousness?, from our present five-sensory state of being, is very different from the answer that would come from other realms of being...... other states of consciousness.
--snip-- Change the state of consciousness, and you change the perspective, which changes what is seen [de-coded], and what is therefore experienced.
-----------------------
So, what is a lower state of consciousness, as compared to a higher state?

A lower state of [human] consciousness is one which derives its perceived reality from a very narrow bandwidth of frequencies. A higher state of consciousness is one which derives its perceived reality from a wider band of frequencies.
-----------------------


Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn View Post
] Consciousness, to me, is simply life itself; it is the ability of a particular thing in existence to interact with another thing in existence, to exchange information with said other thing in existence. Ergo, for me, everything has at least some form of consciousness, albeit not necessarily as we ourselves experience our own consciousness.


Quote Originally Posted by Cup View Post
What is consciousness? Consciousness is the symptom of a living being, a soul. Consciousness cannot be manufactured, it is eternal, it cannot be separated from the soul. The soul is conscious and through consciousness free will is expressed.


Quote Originally Posted by Eelco View Post
For starters I'll state that consciousness is everything we can become aware of.
Reason i'm stating it as this is that I hold the notion that certain aspects of consciousness are not easy to see without some form of training in observance.


Quote Originally Posted by Dictionary via Anarp View Post
consciousness
ˈkɒnʃəsnɪs/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings.
"she failed to regain consciousness and died two days later"
synonyms: awareness, wakefulness, alertness, responsiveness, sentience
"she failed to regain consciousness"
antonyms: unconsciousness
2.
a person's awareness or perception of something.
"her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"
synonyms: awareness of, knowledge of the existence of, alertness to, sensitivity to, realization of, cognizance of, mindfulness of, perception of, apprehension of, recognition of
"her acute consciousness of Luke's presence"


Quote Originally Posted by Cearna View Post
Consciousness

What consciousness began as, was that someone coined the word, and it is now in use, under the guise of many different meanings.

The meaning of this word to me is :-
In opening your mind, there is always something new. In totality – it only gives up what you are willing to find of gentle Earth's pleasures of the mind.

Quote Originally Posted by Anarp View Post
He lists the conscious mind, the subconscious mind, and the superconscious mind as representing the three-part constitution of the wider consciousness, as experienced in the human condition.

The conscious mind, he says, is the part of us with which we make our day-to-day decisions, and with which we manufacture order in our lives. The subconscious mind operates out of our conscious control, he continues, and picks up codings from the quantum field that are not immediately accessible via the conscious thought processes.

He refers to the superconscious mind as being that aspect of us which operates from a dimension that is separate from our duality-based continuum. In addition, he refers to the superconscious mind as the soul, or steering aspect of our incarnation. The quiet voice from behind the veil that most of us can't hear!


Quote Originally Posted by InCiDeR View Post
To fully understand consciousness, would be like an avatar in a video game would be able to not only see but also re-write the source code of the game.
Meaning consciousness itself limits the understanding of itself, by itself, at least in this realm and perceived reality.


Quote Originally Posted by Cearna View Post
Right to know is what true Consciousness is


Quote Originally Posted by Eelco View Post
Right now is what true Consciousness is


Quote Originally Posted by Eelco View Post
Of those 4 Citta/Concsiousness is also 4-fold.
- Sense sphere consciousness
- Fine material sphere consciousness
- Immaterial sphere consciousness
- Supramundane consciousness

Citta is also defined 3 different ways.
- Citta as an agent, here citta is that which knows or cognizes an object.
- Citta as an instrument, Here citta is that by means of which the 52 mental factors cognize an object.
- Citta as an activity, where the process or act of cognizing an object is called citta.


With Love
Eelco


: Sherlock: I think you missed a few. :ttr:



The Avatar in a video game that you refer to [above] would fall into the second definition, and would therefore not have the power to re-write source codes. Re-writing the source codes of the game would be the prerogative of the person [people] holding the control panel.

Anarp, thank you for your reflection of my unreflected thoughts. What you so nicely clarified and straightened out was my intention and also one of my points with that statement. However, I see now in retrospective I could have made my composition of my lines clearer and easier to understand. I believe my thoughts came out unsorted and I allowed them to come together too fast.

As for the rest of your post...

You said something about finding common grounds. I believe we already have a foundation. :)

Everyone wishes to be clear and... comprehensible. That's a challenge we all deal with all the time. I think you did well expressing yourself. Of course, I wouldn't want you or anyone for that matter to 'stand under' anything I have to say.

When it comes to finding common ground and having a foundation, personally, I like to keep that entirely flexible. None of us know what we could come up with in the next moment. That's what makes this discussion so fascinating.

Catsquotl
17th April 2015, 18:46
: Sherlock: I think you missed a few. :ttr:

feel free to add them or tell witch ones. What I'm interested in mainly is what it is we can become conscious off. I realize that to many conaciousness is bigger than that. So I'm sifting through definitions I can work with by the premis that with the right attuning to the dedinition will hold up as a distinct state of mind that is verifyable. if only in a subjectively experiental manner.

With Love
Eelco

Pris
17th April 2015, 19:32
And we are having a debate about consciousness. Well, yes.

The point I'm making here is that the world wouldn't be the way it is, and our bodies wouldn't be as fragile and vulnerable as they are, if the entire Earth Project hadn't been taken over by malevolent forces, to use us as a food source.

There can be no other rational explanation. Only denial.

The New Age bombards us with pretty-sounding spiritual platitudes to keep us placated, and to stop us from looking at the bigger picture. We are told that: "we are the bravest of the brave", and that: "only the best were chosen to come here", and: "spiritual growth on this planet is faster than in any other place in the Universe", and: "there are no victims", and: "you fought for your opportunity to be here as a Lightworker, at this auspicious time."

It's all part of the programme, and it's all drivel. All of it.

The truth of it, is that we were trapped here against our will, aeons ago, and we haven't been able to escape. We're sealed into the farm like carefully-herded sheep, and woe betide anyone who ventures too near the electric fence...... like Branson, for example. Or Nicola Tesla, or Royal Rife, or Michael Jackson, John Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther King, Kurt Cobain, Jim Morrison, Whitney Houston....... need I go on?

It matters not from which node of the compass the saccharin-coated philosophy is sourced...... it's all just literary sedation, poured into our eager consciousness for the purpose of keeping us submissive and docile.

I don't know what the solution is.

Every day we get the latest version of the breathlessly-anticipated redemption-and-salvation-package, from externally-sourced saviours. Some even have blue heads and feathers. And the days come and go, come and go.... and nothing ever changes.

One thing’s for sure – a lot of what we are conscious of is certainly being manipulated by malevolent forces... Some obviously know how to play this 'game' better than most of us.

This is a pretty serious discussion.


........Here’s a reminder
......................that even in the darkest moments,
.................................................t here is humour (light).


http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n138/krwada/animals/cats/morankitteh.jpg


It is my very not-so-humble opinion that this kind of...

conscious, critical thinking

laced with a sense of humour (dry or otherwise)...

helps to 'break the spell'.




.

Dreamtimer
17th April 2015, 21:13
Pris, "...conscious, critical thinking laced with a sense of humour...helps 'to break the spell'." Awesome. I'm on board with that.

dianna
17th April 2015, 22:56
[A] really bad hair day in Heaven.


…..


We live on a planet that is run by madmen […] where we can't move from one country to another without passports and without having to endure sexual molestation at airports....... where we have to breathe deliberately-polluted air....... eat deliberately-contaminated food.......where toxic fluoride is forced into our kitchens without our consent...... where we are approaching a time of mandatory toxic vaccinations....... where we are forced to use Neanderthal transportation technology, whilst far more advanced, and non-polluting technologies are suppressed and concealed........ where the pharmaceutical industry makes a profit out of illness, and has no intention of curing anything, while real cures for all disease states exist now, and have similarly been hidden from us.......where the banking corporations finance both sides in constructed wars so as to maximise profit in the clean-up operations....... where homeless people are now considered criminals and are discouraged from sleeping in the street by the installation of spikes and studs......where we are lied to by politicians, by scientists, by medical staff, by clergy, by people whom we trust to look after our interests, in every aspect of our ... lives.


…..

It's as if we are suffering some kind of collective Stockholm Syndrome, where we have fallen into the trap of empathising with those who want to keep us hostages, steeped in servility and pauperdom.


…..

The New Age bombards us with pretty-sounding spiritual platitudes to keep us placated, and to stop us from looking at the bigger picture. We are told that: "we are the bravest of the brave", and that: "only the best were chosen to come here", and: "spiritual growth on this planet is faster than in any other place in the Universe", and: "there are no victims", and: "you fought for your opportunity to be here as a Lightworker, at this auspicious time."

It's all part of the programme, and it's all drivel. All of it.


…..

It matters not from which node of the compass the saccharin-coated philosophy is sourced...... it's all just literary sedation, poured into our eager consciousness for the purpose of keeping us submissive and docile.

I don't know what the solution is.

Every day we get the latest version of the breathlessly-anticipated redemption-and-salvation-package, from externally-sourced saviours. Some even have blue heads and feathers. And the days come and go, come and go.... and nothing ever changes.

http://media.giphy.com/media/Y8cdPle4eIyPu/giphy.gif

Because righteous anger … is so … righteous!

Anarp
18th April 2015, 07:58
Everyone wishes to be clear and... comprehensible. That's a challenge we all deal with all the time. I think you did well expressing yourself. Of course, I wouldn't want you or anyone for that matter to 'stand under' anything I have to say.

When it comes to finding common ground and having a foundation, personally, I like to keep that entirely flexible. None of us know what we could come up with in the next moment. That's what makes this discussion so fascinating.


Absolutely. That's the foundation stone of my own research philosophy...... never to have a foundation stone... or, at least, to always be prepared to ditch the previous stone, in favour of a newer one.

If we approach this topic with set beliefs about how the world works, how consciousness is integrated into it.... or with any other unwavering dogmas - sacred cows - we will fall foul of their restrictive influences.

Having an open mind is very important when it comes to investigating arcane and esoteric topics, such as this.

Everybody will have a perspective, and, as I suggested in a previous post, it is this variety of thoughts that gives the investigation its inherent momentum, and colour.




Because righteous anger … is so … righteous!


I don't feel righteous about being angry, but I certainly do feel angry a lot of the time.

I would respectfully ask: how can anybody who has been far enough down the proverbial rabbit hole ....... far enough to have seen at least a modicum of the filth that is stored there, NOT be embittered about what comes into clear focus?

It may be presumptuous to suggest that I have probably been going round on this treadmill longer than a lot of people on this forum, but I would state that my comments here are not the result of myopia; rather, my insights and conclusions are the result of a great deal of research, and many decades of dark experience.

I started my investigations into the New Age network at least 20 years ago, and for a long time I would avidly read all the channelled information as it surfaced, daily, or weekly. When these kind of articles first settled on my awakening and lamentably-naive mind - like gentle feathers - I found myself entranced and uplifted by their messages.

For a long time - years in fact - I continued to read the many messages that were emerging from this inspiring new source of data.

After a while, however, I began to see a lot of similarities between the different messages. Similarities in memes, and similarities in forecasts.

This research covered the ten-year, or so, period from early in the new millennium, up to the much-anticipated, and fervently-heralded date of 2012. This was the time that seemed to be the focus of all the excitement; the time when the masks will come off; the time when the word apocalypse would be recognised for its true meaning; the time when the Long Count of the Mayan calendar anticipated paradigm shifts in human consciousness; the time when the wars would stop; the time when the cockroaches in charge of the world, would be crushed. Yippeeeee!

I was soooooo excited in the months, then weeks, then days, leading up to the 21 December 2012.

Finally.... finally..... all the woes of the world would be over, and we could start afresh, anew, with incorruptible bodies, on a new dimension of life experience.

And then what happened?

Nothing.

On the morning of the 22 December 2012, the Christmas fiasco was still in full swing; the chemtrails still adorned the once-blue sky; the politicians were still lying; the false flags were still flying; the unfettered malevolence of a service-to-self world continued unabated.

It was on this date that I decided that I had to re-think my understanding concerning the validity of the information that had previously enraptured my future vision.

And with that renewed focus, I started to see many holes and fallacies in the New Age channelling scene. The deeper I looked, the more transparent, insipid, and duplicitous, the whole show became.

In the ensuing time, my doubts have been realised, my frustration has been inflated, and my anger has been piqued.

How could I have been so gullible to have fallen for such conspicuous nonsense?

Cearna
18th April 2015, 09:17
From the point of view of Source, everything is an illusion, Pris. The only thing that is actually real, is consciousness itself, which is part of the infinite information contained in Source -- I've explained this in more detail in my first post on this thread. Without consciousness itself, everything would be meaningless and therefore non-extant.

Not criticising Aragorn, we have so many "experts" out there, some teach the age old words from some from some token role in our lives, which will not teach that each dedicated word from those age old texts came from the first to solve what the people in those olden days, need not to know about, but had to be given plenty of the best possible teachings, to prove someone else had a great pure Spirit master, who was able to heal and make re-incarnation possible, not to mention someone who stood above the rest of humanity, to beg to help and pray to. this is something I watched on a video, a few years ago, it was someone who studied all the old folk stories, in similar lines to Jordan Maxwell, and when it is all boiled down, the master takes life from you, and gets you to a place of ending, that all want to find. so each bed of roses, comes along with some very real thorns, relying entirely on our need for something more. Most of the Doctrines we follow on Earth now began during the time the various Temples of the Golden Calf were in operation.

Until now, only the very few were really able to gain some kind of learning, so when the chance came along we rushed to the unknown e.g. the Beatles went to India, so suddenly great numbers wanted to go find gurus in India. The New Age began, and thus we have probably as many ideas of what consciousness is as there are people asking what it is.

Now, Aragorn, I am of the same opinion as yourself, that the Source is the place to turn to for your answers, many disagree with me because they believe that the answers come from within, still others believe that you should never go to an outside yourself source, because you can be misled. I am a believer that much of your Consciousness comes from within,but I explained how that works with our Souls. I also believe that if you are going to put your consciousness into beliefs that you gain from videos, conferences and books, you can also be misled. I read some of what others state has come from some expert or other and so often I recoil from these statements, just as some of you will do from some of my statements. We all have to find our own way, in our own way.

One thing that happened to me some 30 years ago now, not long after my Higher Self decided to come to be right beside me instead of working from above to me. I had a dream, I was a little girl, about 6 years old. I came to this place, and went to get a key, put the key in a lock to a huge door, opened the door to go on in to a room containing what I equated to 6 slightly larger than bar sized refrigerators. Some of these opened on the right side and some on the left side. I opened each one to find inside cans looking a bit like movie spools or the original hard drives to computers, many of these in each refrigerator. I opened each can, absorbed everything on them into myself, until I had done this with every spool in every refrigerator. I closed everything down, closed the door and left.

The next day, my Higher Self Ivan, was very upset when I woke up.I was told "You know those refrigerators, Colleen, well you brought them back into this room with you, and I do not know how to get them back again" (Actually, I am sure he did know how, but wanted me to have confirmation that this had really happened). He said we would have to get my Homeopath to help me, for I had an appointment with him that day. When I got there, he was a powerful medium and brought his Spirit guide through, who was to lead me into what to do, then, his own Master, Master Pu, took over, because it was too difficult. He led me into what to do, and later my Homeopath explained that what the place was, was the storage place of Knowledge and no one is supposed to be able to get into it, let alone look into the knowledge. We decided my need for knowledge was so great that I managed to do what you are not supposed to do. We also decided that as a 6 year old you do not see any reason for limitations, and when I was actually 6 year old I put away all my abilities because they brought me too many problems, and I was still stuck as a 6 year old. The next week I went back and Master Pu, took me through the releasing of my six year old and brought me to my proper age. so the knowledge is there to be gained. Not long ago we discovered that for a very long time now, the Goddess of Light and Knowledge has been working through me and she is one of 20 Source Gods who made Earth their physical home a very long time ago, long before anyone else ever came here to Earth.

These 20 Source Gods assure me that if you come to ask them a question, with the right attitude in your heart, they will give you "The Right to know"about that question and will answer in the most appropriate way for you. This is now the way I choose to ask about some things that I write about on TOT.

Consciousness applies to knowing, but you must work out in your own Self, what this knowledge is for yourself alone, as the answer otherwise is for open minded persons, and in fact begins only if you live in an open state.

Catsquotl
18th April 2015, 09:52
Consciousness applies to knowing, but you must work out in your own Self, what this knowledge is for yourself alone, as the answer otherwise is for open minded persons, and in fact begins only if you live in an open state.


Now this I wholeheartedly agree with.
It applies to knowing, in every which way. I also agree that hearing/reading/seeing an explanation about any subject through podcasts/books/video's does not equate to knowing.
Knowledge about the subject matter that is. The way these mediums operate is using a part of consciousness mostly the part that is able to use concepts to realize thought.

Only when the concept is experienced in some way with regard to more than one sense we "know"

I figure i'm seen as someone who uses book knowledge to talk about the nature of consciousness as I paraphrase the abhidhamma and even say i'm using the buddhist texts as a reference. Its true in the sense that I use them as a guide to arrive at experiental understanding.

Some members may know me as an avid reader, searcher and thinker. Like Anarp I have surfed the waves of popular "new age" belief-systems for years.
What I have found is that anything that I cannot experience for myself means exactly squat in the face of understanding. Even though have not read or listen to much channeled material. I have had periods of time where my hopes and ideals were attached to a certain concept or date or favorable outcome because someone said so.

I have used the Lingo from the healing power of illnes (dethlefsen, dahlke) because of a belief. Not because of experiental knowing. Even though I said and deluted myself into believing i was clear-knowing in those days, as the sense of resonation with such materials was so great.

That is why my definition of consciousness at this time has to incorporate the possibility of subjective verifiable experiental knowledge. One reason the theravadan buddhist pull is so great with me these days. Is that the legend of the Buddha talks of a human being who through his own efforts and experience found a way to come to a very deep understanding of human nature and human consciousness. Not only that. To this day people from the theravadan tradition find that the path that was layed out by the buddha does lead to the promised results in verifiable, predictable ways. So predictable that they can describe progressions of insight following 16 steps that everybody on that path goes through.. No gods, entities or whatnots desired a belief in concepts to get to this experience.

The amount of detail described in the sutta's and the abhidhamma are staggering. The parts i have experienced of the path also verify that the early stages at least progress as described.

That said the only question/doubt I am having is this:
If imagination is as powerful as I belief it is. To what extend is expecting the path to unfold according to my understanding the "magic" by which i create my reality. (to what extend do blinders because of my knowledge of the path shield me from the parts that don't fit) or to what extend is it "Reality"

With Love
Eelco

Aragorn
18th April 2015, 10:14
Not criticising Aragorn, we have so many "experts" out there, some teach the age old words from some from some token role in our lives, which will not teach that each dedicated word from those age old texts came from the first to solve what the people in those olden days, need not to know about, but had to be given plenty of the best possible teachings, to prove someone else had a great pure Spirit master, who was able to heal and make re-incarnation possible, not to mention someone who stood above the rest of humanity, to beg to help and pray to. this is something I watched on a video, a few years ago, it was someone who studied all the old folk stories, in similar lines to Jordan Maxwell, and when it is all boiled down, the master takes life from you, and gets you to a place of ending, that all want to find. so each bed of roses, comes along with some very real thorns, relying entirely on our need for something more. Most of the Doctrines we follow on Earth now began during the time the various Temples of the Golden Calf were in operation.

Until now, only the very few were really able to gain some kind of learning, so when the chance came along we rushed to the unknown e.g. the Beatles went to India, so suddenly great numbers wanted to go find gurus in India. The New Age began, and thus we have probably as many ideas of what consciousness is as there are people asking what it is.

Well, in my case, I can only tell you that I have not been to India and have not studied anyone's teachings. My own knowledge -- for whatever it's worth, but it works for me -- comes from deep within myself, from having been scrutinizing my every thought, my every emotion, my every feeling, just about every day of my life (including today) ever since I was in puberty, if not earlier, in addition to studying sciences. I did however receive an important clue with regard to the nature of consciousness itself from hearing Paul LaViolette, because he was the first (that I know of) to coin that Source is an information field, rather than an energy field. And yes, that perfectly ties in with what I already knew and felt, and it makes perfect sense from the perspective of quantum physics.

Now, there is of course a big difference between Source and our own individual consciousness. The best way to describe this is to think of electrons. In your home, you have a refrigerator, and a television set, and a computer, and an iron, and a microwave oven, and a hi-fi set, and ceiling lights. All of those would merely be boat anchors if it weren't for that one very important thing which turns them into what they really are meant to be, namely electricity. It is the electricity which allows your refrigerator to be a refrigerator, your television set to be a television set, your computer to be a computer, and so on. Furthermore, the electrons which enter your TV set will exit them again, and will then enter your ceiling lights and exit them again, and will then enter your computer and exit it again, and so on. In other words, it's a constant stream of exchanging information.

So it is with consciousness. What electricity is to your household appliances, consciousness is to us all. It is the stream of life, which passes through us and allows us to be who we are -- identity is a function of the soul, but consciousness is separate from that, and the interface between the soul and consciousness is what we call "the mind" -- while consciousness itself, and thus life itself, is a property of the Prime Creator, which itself is the (self-)aware part of Source.



Now, Aragorn, I am of the same opinion as yourself, that the Source is the place to turn to for your answers, many disagree with me because they believe that the answers come from within, still others believe that you should never go to an outside yourself source, because you can be misled.

I'm not so sure that I agree with the notion that Source would be where the answers lie, and I'm sorry if my message conveyed that this is what I believe. In fact, Source contains all the information -- infinite information -- but in an undifferentiated form. It is information, but the act of observing that information is what gives meaning to it; this is the primary exchange. And pure observation at the level of the Prime Creator -- again, this is the (self-)aware part of Source -- isn't sufficient to render a complete understanding. That is why everything that is and everything that is not must also be experienced, and this is why Creation exists, and why the Prime Creator is a creator consciousness in the first place. This is is why dichotomies/dualities/polarities exist.



I am a believer that much of your Consciousness comes from within,but I explained how that works with our Souls. I also believe that if you are going to put your consciousness into beliefs that you gain from videos, conferences and books, you can also be misled. I read some of what others state has come from some expert or other and so often I recoil from these statements, just as some of you will do from some of my statements. We all have to find our own way, in our own way.

That is what I am doing, yes. I grew up as a Catholic, and then I started hearing of other explanations which conflicted with Christianity as a whole, i.e. the New Age stuff, about reincarnation, et al. My late uncle was very much into that, but at that time I was still attending a Catholic school, so there was clearly a conflict of opinion. I've never been one to seek out teachings from others, but I did always listen, and in the end, I found that the Truth was within myself, and that this is where I needed to look for it.



One thing that happened to me some 30 years ago now, not long after my Higher Self decided to come to be right beside me instead of working from above to me. I had a dream, I was a little girl, about 6 years old. I came to this place, and went to get a key, put the key in a lock to a huge door, opened the door to go on in to a room containing what I equated to 6 slightly larger than bar sized refrigerators. Some of these opened on the right side and some on the left side. I opened each one to find inside cans looking a bit like movie spools or the original hard drives to computers, many of these in each refrigerator. I opened each can, absorbed everything on them into myself, until I had done this with every spool in every refrigerator. I closed everything down, closed the door and left.

The next day, my Higher Self Ivan, was very upset when I woke up.I was told "You know those refrigerators, Colleen, well you brought them back into this room with you, and I do not know how to get them back again" (Actually, I am sure he did know how, but wanted me to have confirmation that this had really happened). He said we would have to get my Homeopath to help me, for I had an appointment with him that day.

Most people see their Higher Self as a separate being, and from what you write here-above, it would appear that you do too. You've even given him a name, "Ivan". If he/she/it is a separate entity, then he/she/it is not your Higher Self, regardless of what he/she/it claims. Your Higher Self is just really what the name says: it is a part of yourself which you can access but which you are not conscious of during your normal day-to-day activities, given that these activities keep you confined to the cold, hard reality that we're living in on this world.



When I got there, he was a powerful medium and brought his Spirit guide through, who was to lead me into what to do, then, his own Master, Master Pu, took over, because it was too difficult. He led me into what to do, and later my Homeopath explained that what the place was, was the storage place of Knowledge and no one is supposed to be able to get into it, let alone look into the knowledge. We decided my need for knowledge was so great that I managed to do what you are not supposed to do. We also decided that as a 6 year old you do not see any reason for limitations, and when I was actually 6 year old I put away all my abilities because they brought me too many problems, and I was still stuck as a 6 year old. The next week I went back and Master Pu, took me through the releasing of my six year old and brought me to my proper age. so the knowledge is there to be gained. Not long ago we discovered that for a very long time now, the Goddess of Light and Knowledge has been working through me and she is one of 20 Source Gods who made Earth their physical home a very long time ago, long before anyone else ever came here to Earth.

These 20 Source Gods assure me that if you come to ask them a question, with the right attitude in your heart, they will give you "The Right to know"about that question and will answer in the most appropriate way for you. This is now the way I choose to ask about some things that I write about on TOT.

Consciousness applies to knowing, but you must work out in your own Self, what this knowledge is for yourself alone, as the answer otherwise is for open minded persons, and in fact begins only if you live in an open state.

Indeed, we all do live in our own reality bubbles, our own mini-universes, and each of these mini-universes has its own laws and rules. Information can be comprised of a single item, but what it means will differ between all of us, because our individual existences are all the individuated collapses of the wave function of the quantum super-state making up for the infinite information in Source. :-)

Catsquotl
18th April 2015, 14:06
As a side track.....
Taking the Sophianic narrative as a real event.

Some type of energetic consciousness as raw catalyst exists.
The "gods"/Aeons. In this case Sophia and Thelete use this raw catalyst to construct a being capable of expressing and experiencing what the catalyst is capable of.

That being is us Anthropos 10.

Now with regard to consciousness.
Is the raw catalyst consciousness?
Are the Aeons consciousness?
Are we consciousness?

Is the raw catalyst that which helps us become consciouss of our experience?
Do we exist without it.
Is consciousness the raw catalyst, that which experiences itself through us?

Is the raw catalyst consciouss of itself as a being? or is it just the stuff that makes up cognition as a tool.
-----

Even though not long ago I could spend days if not weeks thinking about these questions. Meditation with the intend to connect to Sophia, or even the raw catalyst.
I have done so early this year. Looking back from where I am now. I cannot help but wonder if these are questions that can be answered from our human perspective. All I have to help me understand is the consciousness I am aware of NOW. I can do some exercises to help me expand my current awareness to encompass more. But still it will as long as I embody the being I am now colored by the way consciousness arises and passes within me. In that sense it will be a temporary, eventually unsatisfying and selfless experience.

With Love
Eelco

Pris
18th April 2015, 18:12
Everyone wishes to be clear and... comprehensible. That's a challenge we all deal with all the time. I think you did well expressing yourself. Of course, I wouldn't want you or anyone for that matter to 'stand under' anything I have to say.

When it comes to finding common ground and having a foundation, personally, I like to keep that entirely flexible. None of us know what we could come up with in the next moment. That's what makes this discussion so fascinating.

Absolutely. That's the foundation stone of my own research philosophy...... never to have a foundation stone... or, at least, to always be prepared to ditch the previous stone, in favour of a newer one.

If we approach this topic with set beliefs about how the world works, how consciousness is integrated into it.... or with any other unwavering dogmas - sacred cows - we will fall foul of their restrictive influences.

Having an open mind is very important when it comes to investigating arcane and esoteric topics, such as this.

Everybody will have a perspective, and, as I suggested in a previous post, it is this variety of thoughts that gives the investigation its inherent momentum, and colour.



I don't feel righteous about being angry, but I certainly do feel angry a lot of the time.

I would respectfully ask: how can anybody who has been far enough down the proverbial rabbit hole ....... far enough to have seen at least a modicum of the filth that is stored there, NOT be embittered about what comes into clear focus?

It may be presumptuous to suggest that I have probably been going round on this treadmill longer than a lot of people on this forum, but I would state that my comments here are not the result of myopia; rather, my insights and conclusions are the result of a great deal of research, and many decades of dark experience.

I started my investigations into the New Age network at least 20 years ago, and for a long time I would avidly read all the channelled information as it surfaced, daily, or weekly. When these kind of articles first settled on my awakening and lamentably-naive mind - like gentle feathers - I found myself entranced and uplifted by their messages.

For a long time - years in fact - I continued to read the many messages that were emerging from this inspiring new source of data.

After a while, however, I began to see a lot of similarities between the different messages. Similarities in memes, and similarities in forecasts.

This research covered the ten-year, or so, period from early in the new millennium, up to the much-anticipated, and fervently-heralded date of 2012. This was the time that seemed to be the focus of all the excitement; the time when the masks will come off; the time when the word apocalypse would be recognised for its true meaning; the time when the Long Count of the Mayan calendar anticipated paradigm shifts in human consciousness; the time when the wars would stop; the time when the cockroaches in charge of the world, would be crushed. Yippeeeee!

I was soooooo excited in the months, then weeks, then days, leading up to the 21 December 2012.

Finally.... finally..... all the woes of the world would be over, and we could start afresh, anew, with incorruptible bodies, on a new dimension of life experience.

And then what happened?

Nothing.

On the morning of the 22 December 2012, the Christmas fiasco was still in full swing; the chemtrails still adorned the once-blue sky; the politicians were still lying; the false flags were still flying; the unfettered malevolence of a service-to-self world continued unabated.

It was on this date that I decided that I had to re-think my understanding concerning the validity of the information that had previously enraptured my future vision.

And with that renewed focus, I started to see many holes and fallacies in the New Age channelling scene. The deeper I looked, the more transparent, insipid, and duplicitous, the whole show became.

In the ensuing time, my doubts have been realised, my frustration has been inflated, and my anger has been piqued.

How could I have been so gullible to have fallen for such conspicuous nonsense?

Anarp's perspective is similar to mine.

Unlike many of you, I'm a 'Jack of all trades, master of none'. I take bits and pieces from all over the place and see if I can make sense of it all in 'the bigger picture'. I'm impatient and get bored easily, so I usually do not spend much time on any one subject. When I discover something new, I'm quick to cast aside what 'doesn't work' for me and replace it with what does. I can change my mind on a whim.

I've fondly played with many ideas as if they are real. My collection of esoteric paraphernalia includes crystals, Tarot decks, 'how to books', books on healing, books on occult knowledge, you name it. First, I require an interest in a subject. Then, I absorb what I can, like a sponge... but only until... it doesn't feel right anymore.

Lately, I've not been 'feeling right' about many things -- more so than ever.

These days, I seem to be focusing on the meaning of energy, love and light and how they may affect me and/or how I may affect them. Also, it is my ongoing wish to effectively communicate -- to share (in words, imagery, video, art, animation) -- so that I may help others become 'more aware' while, in turn, being helped to become 'more aware' myself.

Again, I say, please do not 'stand under' anything I say. Even though I can be annoyingly persistent lol, all that I share is for consideration only. :)

Anarp
19th April 2015, 08:01
Anarp's perspective is similar to mine.

Unlike many of you, I'm a 'Jack of all trades, master of none'. I take bits and pieces from all over the place and see if I can make sense of it all in 'the bigger picture'. I'm impatient and get bored easily, so I usually do not spend much time on any one subject. When I discover something new, I'm quick to cast aside what 'doesn't work' for me and replace it with what does. I can change my mind on a whim.

Best keep this to yourself, Pris. If the government find out, they'll have you on medication as fast as you can say r-i-t-i-l-i-n! ADHD is a disease of the mind, and needs to be treated by people in white coats, who always know better! They're developing a shot for this nasty condition, as we speak, lest ADHD becomes a pandemic, spread via left-wing, liberalist terrorists, like you.


I've fondly played with many ideas as if they are real. My collection of esoteric paraphernalia includes crystals, Tarot decks, 'how to books', books on healing, books on occult knowledge, you name it. First, I require an interest in a subject. Then, I absorb what I can, like a sponge... but only until... it doesn't feel right anymore.

OMG..... a free-thinker! That won't do at all. You are now officially a magnet for the Orwellian Corps of anti-free-think. Look out!


Lately, I've not been 'feeling right' about many things -- more so than ever.

This is a clear sign of Ritilin deficiency.


These days, I seem to be focusing on the meaning of energy, love and light and how they may affect me and/or how I may affect them. Also, it is my ongoing wish to effectively communicate -- to share (in words, imagery, video, art, animation) -- so that I may help others become 'more aware' while, in turn, being helped to become 'more aware' myself.

Again, I say, please do not 'stand under' anything I say. Even though I can be annoyingly persistent lol, all that I share is for consideration only. :)

I certainly understand what you are saying. :rock:

Cup
19th April 2015, 13:58
Now, Cup, you just had to drop in a reference to the 'blue avians'? ;)

Should the 'blue avians' exist, who says that they have 'fewer limitations' expressing consciousness than a human being? First, ironically, we have to prove blue avians 'exist'.

And, assuming they exist, what if they're just another group of entities caught up in 4th density (if you believe that sort of thing) unaware (or FULLY aware) that they've not 'risen higher' and are living in their own self-contrived hierarchical wonderlands?

You are right Pris, maybe that wasn't the best example :) What I wanted to illustrate was that consciousness is covered to a higher or lesser degree by different types of material bodies (matrix energy). That allows us (soul) experiences filtered through layers of matter. We do this through our senses that work as sensors and through the mind, which acts as the CPU, if you will.

Some entities, don't have senses to experience with, which is a very frustrating situation and so some try to "possess" or take over a body (most often with an owner with a weak mind that will allow possession to take place) in order or experience sensory input.


I'm not comfortable with the idea of 'hierarchies' of any kind -- either here or 'over there' (should 'over there' exist) -- and like to think of all life-forms/existence/consciousness on the same, horizontal path. Perhaps, we're just occupying different places along that path.

Hierarchies doesn't have to imply that the different positions are valued better or worse but they do exist. Hierarchy in this regard is just a way to differentiate how much "light" comes through different forms of filters (material bodies)


I would also suggest that we not underestimate the ability of a tree to express consciousness due to the 'perceived limitations' we suppose it has compared to us. We simply do not know enough IMHO.

I agree, on the other hand one could argue that a tree body is relatively more limited to experience creation than a human. Or a microbe, which is also a conscious living entity.

The ability to express consciousness is related to the type of Matrix vehicle the soul is occupying, that is one principle, another is that although we have a vehicle suited for relatively more freedom of expression of consciousness we could use that to express the consciousness of a hog or a dog. In which case such a body would actually be a blessing to us.

Anyway this relates to the alien-people as well, some may be enjoying a body with less restrictions but that doesn't mean that they necessary are "of" higher consciousness. They may represent really low ego-vibrations if they choose to do so. If they exist.

Anarp
19th April 2015, 15:16
Here's an interview with Simon Parkes, who refers to himself as an ET contactee.

At the 55 minute mark, he is talking about how humanity's DNA was altered by Reptilian forces, so as to disconnect us from ten of the twelve strands of DNA that, when fully connected, would enable 100% of our human potential to be realised.

"Energetically-disarticulated DNA", is the expression Parkes uses.

What remained, after this alteration - the 2 strands with which we now operate - was enough, he says, to enable humans to work and think, but not enough to enable them to fully connect with what has become known as our higher selves, in situ. Our so-called higher selves are actually an integral part of who we really are, when fully functional, and are contained within the disconnected 10 strands of DNA.

Parkes says that the ascension process, [as it is often referred to, in alternative chat rooms], is really a descension process, whereby the 10 missing strands of DNA are being re-activated. Our higher selves are re-connecting with their disenfranchised tethers!

This bringing-down process of higher consciousness [rather than raising up from the Earth] that Parkes refers to, is in line with the message that was promulgated by Chris Thomas, who, until about a year ago, was very vocal on the interview circuit, and who was known for his staunch dismissal of everything New Age.

In conclusion, Parkes recites his understanding as to why it isn't possible for benevolenet off-world entities to come in here and save the day.

It is because we have tacitly given our consent to be ruled over by a service-to-self Cabal, by doing nothing to stop them.

If a benevolent off-world race was to engage the Cabal and eliminate their influence here, such a move would be considered interfering with our free-will choice [albeit tacit] to be serfs in the Cabal's feifdom.

This is the problem that we, as a collective, now face. How are we going to wake up enough people to enable a take-down of the fascist regime, without having to rely on off-world assistance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiwQf0d0QMU#t=3456

Cup
19th April 2015, 16:17
Nobody has full conscious recall of previous lives; all we have is the notion that previous lives may have been experienced.

That is actually not true, there are a number of people remembering past lives, even going to places they have lived, meeting relatives from their past lives, showing them things they couldn't have known unless they were that other person in their last life. There is quite some research done on this subject.


Why would we have all these lifetimes of experience where each new lifetime is started with no memory whatsoever of what we experienced previously?

That is not true either, we do actually carry our previous experiences with us, so much so they form our entire personality. In fact we have the exact same mind in this life as we had in our previous, the only thing that has changed is our outer body.

The forgetfulness most people experience from previous lives is a blessing. We would go crazy re-living all the pain and suffering we have experienced in our attempts of being happy being something we are not.


This is the real world we live in. It is not under the control of a benevolent force; we are controlled from one loosh-creating lifetime of fear, to the next, via hidden mind parasites, the Archons.

I find your argument a bit contradictory since if it is like you say, nothing matters anyway. We have no way to influence or change anything.

I think you have bought into the Archon-saga a bit too much, yes there may be different agents that makes our existence troublesome but you are giving them way too much credit. They themselves are under the control of the Universe and cannot act independently. They can only do what they are allowed to do.

And John Lash, what can I say. A person who takes on himself and make a mission of starting to kill random people labeled as psychopaths is a psychopath himself in my book. Evil cannot be fought with evil, the evil we experience is because of ourselves and we have the power to change ourselves and make the world a better place.


What kind of all-knowing, all-loving, all-caring Source / God / Force would have created this mess?

Source gave us a playground, the mess we created ourselves. We are responsible for what is going on right now on this planet and in the Universe.

That is very beautiful and empowering because it gives us the power to change it.

When we say "We don't give our consent" actually the person we should have a serious talk with is ourselves. We are responsible for what we experience, good and bad. We can only change ourselves and to do that we need to stop blaming the universe, the archons, the aliens, the program or whatever favourite excuse we have for not taking the responsibility ourselves.

And again, that change will not be instant, it will take quite some time. Maybe life-times.


On the morning of the 22 December 2012, the Christmas fiasco was still in full swing; the chemtrails still adorned the once-blue sky; the politicians were still lying; the false flags were still flying; the unfettered malevolence of a service-to-self world continued unabated.

It was on this date that I decided that I had to re-think my understanding concerning the validity of the information that had previously enraptured my future vision.

And with that renewed focus, I started to see many holes and fallacies in the New Age channelling scene. The deeper I looked, the more transparent, insipid, and duplicitous, the whole show became.

In the ensuing time, my doubts have been realised, my frustration has been inflated, and my anger has been piqued.

How could I have been so gullible to have fallen for such conspicuous nonsense?

I like that, you are a honest person. :love:

And I agree with you, the majority of information put out is really just to make people confused.

Not that I'm in a position to give anyone any advise but from my biased perspective you already have what is required within you, maybe you should turn inwards and find your truths and stop listening to others? Go to your heart space, I think you will find what your are looking for. :love:

Anarp
19th April 2015, 18:36
That is actually not true, there are a number of people remembering past lives, even going to places they have lived, meeting relatives from their past lives, showing them things they couldn't have known unless they were that other person in their last life. There is quite some research done on this subject.

Fair enough...... but what I said was that "nobody has full conscious recall of previous lives"..... meaning ALL previous lives, in FULL. This would only be the case if we had fully-functioning DNA, which we don't. At the moment, as the veil is breaking down, and as the codons are realigning themselves, people are getting glimpses into what we consider to be the past. But these cases are very few and far between, [a tiny percentage of the population], and the visions are incomplete.


That is not true either, we do actually carry our previous experiences with us, so much so they form our entire personality. In fact we have the exact same mind in this life as we had in our previous, the only thing that has changed is our outer body.

There is not one ounce of evidence that supports such a notion! In fact, the research into this matter suggests exactly the opposite!


The forgetfulness most people experience from previous lives is a blessing. We would go crazy re-living all the pain and suffering we have experienced in our attempts of being happy being something we are not.

LOL! That's exactly what we ARE doing....going batshit crazy by re-living all the pain and suffering we have already experienced for the preceding 250,000 years, but have forgotten it all! "Forgetfulness is a blessing"!!! What??

Here's a laser rifle. Remember the last time you used it, you shot your leg off. Don't forget not to aim it at yourself.

Oopsy daisy..... there goes that leg again!

Seriously? Do you really believe that? If you had full recall of all your previous lives, you would have left this reality many aeons ago, because there would have been nothing left to learn! That's if there was no false-light trap at the exit..... to erase your memory.


I like that, you are a honest person. :love:

And I agree with you, the majority of information put out is really just to make people confused.

Not that I'm in a position to give anyone any advise but from my biased perspective you already have what is required within you, maybe you should turn inwards and find your truths and stop listening to others? Go to your heart space, I think you will find what your are looking for. :love:

Sorry Cup..... I've been around too long to give any credence to such hackneyed spiritual platitudes. This is like putting a Fiat Uno in a grand prix race and expecting to get any result other than last place!

The only truth that I have ever found in my heart space is that I don't belong here, and I want to get out by [almost] any means possible.


Source gave us a playground, the mess we created ourselves. We are responsible for what is going on right now on this planet and in the Universe.

That is very beautiful and empowering because it gives us the power to change it.

When we say "We don't give our consent" actually the person we should have a serious talk with is ourselves. We are responsible for what we experience, good and bad. We can only change ourselves and to do that we need to stop blaming the universe, the archons, the aliens, the program or whatever favourite excuse we have for not taking the responsibility ourselves.

And again, that change will not be instant, it will take quite some time. Maybe life-times.

This is what the Bible stories like us to believe; and it's also what a great deal of the New Age teachings dribble into our eager minds.

It's not my truth. Not at all.

The original playground was nothing like the one we currently subsist in. This is a prison planet, but we have given our collective tacit consent to be slaves, by virtue of having done nothing to change the way the world is run.

Unless we get off our knees and start to tell the satan-worshipping paedophiles to take a hike, we will remain as nothing more than somnambulistic sheeple, bleating in mindless disharmony, on their vermin-infested farm........ ommmming our way into endless servitude.



I find your argument a bit contradictory since if it is like you say, nothing matters anyway. We have no way to influence or change anything.

I think you have bought into the Archon-saga a bit too much, yes there may be different agents that makes our existence troublesome but you are giving them way too much credit. They themselves are under the control of the Universe and cannot act independently. They can only do what they are allowed to do.

And John Lash, what can I say. A person who takes on himself and make a mission of starting to kill random people labeled as psychopaths is a psychopath himself in my book. Evil cannot be fought with evil, the evil we experience is because of ourselves and we have the power to change ourselves and make the world a better place.

The only thing that matters, once a person had taken the blue pill [ref Matrix movies]...... is to realise that we are slaves in someone else's prison, and that we need to find a way to escape.

The only way we can make any long-term radical change, is for the collective - the vast majority of the slaves - to wake the hell up, and do something about removing the non-corporeal cancer that is eating us alive - literally.

All we are doing at the moment, is treating ourselves to slightly different exercises in the prison courtyard, and telling ourselves that we actually like it here!

The Archons ARE acting independently. That's the whole point! They are mind-parasites and they don't abide by any so-called universal rules!

As individuals, we can assert our sovereign right to be rid of such parasites, and we can employ the services of a multitude of healers and psychics, who each have different ways of removing the implants. Some go permanently, some come back. But, even without the implants, we remain in the prison. The prison is 3D, and it is fully under the control of malevolent and demonic forces....... telling us all the while that demonic forces [ha ha] don't exist!

Wind
19th April 2015, 19:13
Source gave us a playground, the mess we created ourselves. We are responsible for what is going on right now on this planet and in the Universe.

That is very beautiful and empowering because it gives us the power to change it.

When we say "We don't give our consent" actually the person we should have a serious talk with is ourselves. We are responsible for what we experience, good and bad. We can only change ourselves and to do that we need to stop blaming the universe, the archons, the aliens, the program or whatever favourite excuse we have for not taking the responsibility ourselves.

And again, that change will not be instant, it will take quite some time. Maybe life-times.

The forgetfulness most people experience from previous lives is a blessing. We would go crazy re-living all the pain and suffering we have experienced in our attempts of being happy being something we are not.

Exactly. Could your psyche handle the fact that a long a go you might have been a murderer and a rapist? Do you you truly wish to remember the immemense pain you have created for others in some of your lives? That was you once in another body, but you posessed a completely different state of consciousness then than now. Do you want to remember your suffering and all the painful deaths? Would that information make you feel more peaceful? We have existed for so long that we pretty much have done and experienced everything and we have compensated for it or are in the progress, more or less. We're all (except for the pure souls with no past lives) been saints and sinners since duality is the name of the game. Now we are here, supposedly awake and aware beings. By living a peaceful life, doing good deeds and through the will of the Creator we may attain peace and freedom once again.

Pris
19th April 2015, 19:30
The forgetfulness most people experience from previous lives is a blessing. We would go crazy re-living all the pain and suffering we have experienced in our attempts of being happy being something we are not.

Eegads! I want to be the judge of that. :wiz:







...........................Meanwhile,

.................................................. .................I'll just be sitting over here. :swing:



The forgetfulness most people experience from previous lives is a blessing. We would go crazy re-living all the pain and suffering we have experienced in our attempts of being happy being something we are not.

LOL! That's exactly what we ARE doing....going batshit crazy by re-living all the pain and suffering we have already experienced for the preceding 250,000 years, but have forgotten it all! "Forgetfulness is a blessing"!!! What??

Here's a laser rifle. Remember the last time you used it, you shot your leg off. Don't forget not to aim it at yourself.

Oopsy daisy..... there goes that leg again!

Seriously? Do you really believe that? If you had full recall of all your previous lives, you would have left this reality many aeons ago, because there would have been nothing left to learn! That's if there was no false-light trap at the exit..... to erase your memory.


Anarp, don't laugh at Cup too loudly. Cup means well. :)


https://futureofstarwars.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/luke-obiwan-peering-into-lightsaber.jpg

Chester
19th April 2015, 19:43
Seems to me each of us must resolve these matters for ourselves individually (if we even care to) and that it is entirely possible at the level of what can't be proved (especially subjective truths) that something which is true for one being may not be true for another.

InCiDeR
19th April 2015, 19:49
Every truth has a meaning.

In its reflection we can discover ourselves

wave and say "Hi, I didn't realise you were mine".

Sometimes the mirror smiles back and sometimes not.

I fear the day I have no mirror at all.


... still trying to find time (whatever that is) to catch up in this thread...

Pris
19th April 2015, 20:07
Unless we get off our knees and start to tell the satan-worshipping paedophiles to take a hike, we will remain as nothing more than somnambulistic sheeple, bleating in mindless disharmony, on their vermin-infested farm........ ommmming our way into endless servitude.

Now, this. THIS. I want to frame it and hang it up. :thup:

Wind
19th April 2015, 20:16
Don't give the clowns that be your time and energy unless you want them to be powerful.

They're not, really. Why? Because they're only clowns in suits!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWK-yFq1mfQ

Pris
19th April 2015, 20:40
Don't give the clowns that be your time and energy unless you want them to be powerful.

They're not, really. Why? Because they're only clowns in suits!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWK-yFq1mfQ


Yes, Wind. I completely agree. They're clowns -- just don't turn your back on them. ;) Meantime, live the world you wish to see.

►http://jandeane81.com/threads/6141-Live-the-world-you-wish-to-see

Cup
19th April 2015, 20:55
Seriously? Do you really believe that? If you had full recall of all your previous lives, you would have left this reality many aeons ago, because there would have been nothing left to learn! That's if there was no false-light trap at the exit..... to erase your memory.

There is a big difference between experiencing suffering and actually learning from it. Most of us engage in Service To Self and suffer as a result. But we don't give up although we reap the same result repeatedly. Just look at the world.

There is no automation in this, we are not machines, we have Free Will.


Sorry Cup..... I've been around too long to give any credence to such hackneyed spiritual platitudes. This is like putting a Fiat Uno in a grand prix race and expecting to get any result other than last place!

The only truth that I have ever found in my heart space is that I don't belong here, and I want to get out by [almost] any means possible.

Brother, you are no Fiat. And you will get out, you are already well under way. You know you don't belong here and want out. That is all that is needed. Nothing will be able to stop you.


It's not my truth. Not at all.

The original playground was nothing like the one we currently subsist in. This is a prison planet, but we have given our collective tacit consent to be slaves, by virtue of having done nothing to change the way the world is run.

Unless we get off our knees and start to tell the satan-worshipping paedophiles to take a hike, we will remain as nothing more than somnambulistic sheeple, bleating in mindless disharmony, on their vermin-infested farm........ ommmming our way into endless servitude

I agree totally, I also think you will agree that our level of vibration/frequency/intention/action has an impact on the environment, especially if we speak of the collective consciousness were we have billions if people heavily influenced by Service To Self Energy. We didn't become selfish because we live here, the planet is in the current state as a result of the vibration the people living here carry with them.

And yes, throw out those satan worshiping pedos, the most effective way to do so is rising your vibration.


The only thing that matters, once a person had taken the blue pill [ref Matrix movies]...... is to realise that we are slaves in someone else's prison, and that we need to find a way to escape.

The only way we can make any long-term radical change, is for the collective - the vast majority of the slaves - to wake the hell up, and do something about removing the non-corporeal cancer that is eating us alive - literally.

All we are doing at the moment, is treating ourselves to slightly different exercises in the prison courtyard, and telling ourselves that we actually like it here!

The Archons ARE acting independently. That's the whole point! They are mind-parasites and they don't abide by any so-called universal rules!

As individuals, we can assert our sovereign right to be rid of such parasites, and we can employ the services of a multitude of healers and psychics, who each have different ways of removing the implants. Some go permanently, some come back. But, even without the implants, we remain in the prison. The prison is 3D, and it is fully under the control of malevolent and demonic forces....... telling us all the while that demonic forces [ha ha] don't exist!

I'm with you, all the way. We have to assert our sovereign free will, just that from my perspective it is the Soul that carries that free will. I don't think we are that far apart :love:


...........................Meanwhile,

.................................................. .................I'll just be sitting over here. :swing:

May I join? :swing:

Pris
19th April 2015, 21:52
I agree totally, I also think you will agree that our level of vibration/frequency/intention/action has an impact on the environment, especially if we speak of the collective consciousness were we have billions if people heavily influenced by Service To Self Energy. We didn't become selfish because we live here, the planet is in the current state as a result of the vibration the people living here carry with them.

And yes, throw out those satan worshiping pedos, the most effective way to do so is rising your vibration.


Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

Aragorn
19th April 2015, 22:03
Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

It is indeed about the degree of commitment to either service-to-self or service-to-other. Service-to-self is generally the dominant perspective in beings of a lower vibrational state, whereas those of a higher vibrational state are more inclined towards the service-to-other perspective. You can best visualize the higher vibrational state as "seeing the bigger picture".

And in the grander view where one experiences the Oneness with everything, even service-to-other partly becomes service-to-self, but in a benevolent way. It's a little complicated to explain, but let's just say that I myself gravitate towards that experience of Oneness at a subconscious level, probably as a result of where my spirit/soul comes from.

Pris
19th April 2015, 22:05
May I join? :swing:

By all means! :)

Btw, if you don't mind my asking, is your cup empty, full, half empty, or half full? Or, as far as those choices are concerned, simultaneously all and none from a non-linear perspective?



Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

It is indeed about the degree of commitment to either service-to-self or service-to-other. Service-to-self is generally the dominant perspective in beings of a lower vibrational state, whereas those of a higher vibrational state are more inclined towards the service-to-other perspective. You can best visualize the higher vibrational state as "seeing the bigger picture".

And in the grander view where one experiences the Oneness with everything, even service-to-other partly becomes service-to-self, but in a benevolent way. It's a little complicated to explain, but let's just say that I myself gravitate towards that experience of Oneness at a subconscious level, probably as a result of where my spirit/soul comes from.

Ahh. There's another one. 'Oneness'. I used to buy that one, too.

Thank you, Aragorn. I know where you're going with this... I've heard it all (well, mostly lol). It's certainly packaged and tied up very nicely with a bow, isn't it?

Outlander
19th April 2015, 22:12
Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

If you don't 'serve yourself' and prosper, how can you ever serve others?

For most people serving others is an excuse for not facing/taking care of their own problems first.

Aragorn
19th April 2015, 22:14
By all means! :)

Btw, if you don't mind my asking, is your cup empty, full, half empty, or half full? Or, as far as those choices are concerned, simultaneously all and none from a non-linear perspective?

I have the feeling that the answer to that series of questions is probably going to be a simple "yes". :p


Ahh. There's another one. 'Oneness'. I used to buy that one, too.

Thank you, Aragorn. I know where you're going with this... I've heard it all (well, mostly lol). It's certainly packaged and tied up very nicely with a bow, isn't it?

Well, if you do not experience that Oneness, then I cannot make you believe that it even exists, Pris. That would be like trying to explain the difference between yellow and green to a person who was born blind -- no offense whatsoever intended, mind you! :smiley hug:

To me, it is simply something that I was born with. I have always had the feeling that "the Other" was a part of myself, and I know how childlike and excited I can get when I get to do something that makes someone happy. I can feel their joy, and then I myself am just as excited as they are.

This is, in my humble opinion, what true empathy really is. Most people confuse sympathy, empathy and telepathy. Those are three different concepts, but there appears to be some overlap in their description -- notably between sympathy and empathy on the one hand, and between empathy and telepathy on the other hand.

Outlander
19th April 2015, 23:01
Well, if you do not experience that Oneness, then I cannot make you believe that it even exists, Pris. That would be like trying to explain the difference between yellow and green to a person who was born blind -- no offense whatsoever intended, mind you! :smiley hug:

To me, it is simply something that I was born with. I have always had the feeling that "the Other" was a part of myself, and I know how childlike and excited I can get when I get to do something that makes someone happy. I can feel their joy, and then I myself am just as excited as they are.

This is, in my humble opinion, what true empathy really is. Most people confuse sympathy, empathy and telepathy. Those are three different concepts, but there appears to be some overlap in their description -- notably between sympathy and empathy on the one hand, and between empathy and telepathy on the other hand.
Nice!

There are basically 3 kinds of people, Aragorn: people who can count, and people who can't... ;)

Aragorn
19th April 2015, 23:09
Nice!

There are basically 3 kinds of people, Aragorn: people who can count, and people who can't... ;)

I didn't say that it was a triangle, Outlander. ;) Besides, there are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary and those who don't. :p

InCiDeR
19th April 2015, 23:32
Nice!

There are basically 3 kinds of people, Aragorn: people who can count, and people who can't... ;)

Numbers are not always what they appear to be :scrhd:

---

-1/1 = 1/-1

Taking the square root of both sides:
http://s8.postimg.org/5vpri2b0h/image.jpg

Simplifying:
http://s29.postimg.org/c3c6wqwxf/image.jpg

In other words,
i/1 = 1/i.

Therefore,
i / 2 = 1 / (2i),

i/2 + 3/(2i) = 1/(2i) + 3/(2i),

i (i/2 + 3/(2i) ) = i ( 1/(2i) + 3/(2i) ),

http://s29.postimg.org/hldzc16wn/image.jpg

(-1)/2 + 3/2 = 1/2 + 3/2,

and this shows that 1=2.


---

Sorry, I think I got the wrong number :back to topic:

Outlander
19th April 2015, 23:36
I didn't say that it was a triangle, Outlander. ;) Besides, there are 10 kinds of people: those who understand binary and those who don't. :p
Actually - and seriously, there are only two kinds of people: cat people and dog people

Pris
20th April 2015, 00:07
Well, if you do not experience that Oneness, then I cannot make you believe that it even exists, Pris. That would be like trying to explain the difference between yellow and green to a person who was born blind -- no offense whatsoever intended, mind you! :smiley hug:

To me, it is simply something that I was born with. I have always had the feeling that "the Other" was a part of myself, and I know how childlike and excited I can get when I get to do something that makes someone happy. I can feel their joy, and then I myself am just as excited as they are.

This is, in my humble opinion, what true empathy really is. Most people confuse sympathy, empathy and telepathy. Those are three different concepts, but there appears to be some overlap in their description -- notably between sympathy and empathy on the one hand, and between empathy and telepathy on the other hand.

Believing in 'Oneness' is certainly an interesting concept.

Just for myself, I feel an intense... connectedness. :smiley hug:

Getting back to, 'Oneness', that just comes across so.... dogmatic to me, I can't even tell yah. Labeling the feeling of 'connectedness' as 'Oneness' opens up the door to losing oneself in this so-called 'Oneness'. And, I'm not for that. In fact, my entire being screams to remain sovereign 'till the end of time... if you see what I mean. I've no intention of being... absorbed... back into this 'Oneness' from which I supposedly tore myself away (if I did, who freakin' knows) and lose everything that makes me 'I'. Btw, my sense of 'self' is different from my sense of 'ego'.

Even I went around for awhile saying, 'We must choose the path of 'service to others'. Join us! We are all One.'

I can hear Circe cackling in the distance...

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 00:20
Believing in 'Oneness' is certainly an interesting concept.

Just for myself, I feel an intense... connectedness. :smiley hug:

Getting back to, 'Oneness', that just comes across so.... dogmatic to me, I can't even tell yah. Labeling the feeling of 'connectedness' as 'Oneness' opens up the door to losing oneself in this so-called 'Oneness'. And, I'm not for that. In fact, my entire being screams to remain sovereign 'till the end of time... if you see what I mean. I've no intention of being... absorbed... back into this 'Oneness' from which I supposedly tore myself away (if I did, who freakin' knows) and lose everything that makes me 'I'. Btw, my sense of 'self' is different from my sense of 'ego'.

Even I went around for awhile saying, 'We must choose the path of 'service to others'. Join us! We are all One.'

I can hear Circe cackling in the distance...

Well, no, I think you misunderstand the concept of Oneness, or else it has not been properly explained to you -- and many people in the alternative community are actually talking about the Oneness without that they truly understand the concept.

:fpalm:

The Oneness is not a hive mind situation. It is merely a feeling of connectedness with all that is, so that you feel that the only explanation for this connectedness is that we are, indeed, all One. But even within that feeling, you remain your sovereign Self. There is no assimilation. In fact, that assimilation would indeed be a hive mind scenario, where one does not have sovereignty and where the concept of Self does not exist, and most likely not even the concept of love, albeit that I cannot tell that for certain. But either way, in a hive mind situation, your entire existence is nothing other than a mere limb to the collective.

That is definitely not what the Oneness is about. The Oneness is about feeling your own love resonate in somebody else, and theirs in you. :)

RealityCreation
20th April 2015, 00:32
Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

As far as I am aware it originated from the Law of One material, Pris (that's where I first came across it) & I agree with you that on the surface the 2 terms do seem black & white however in the context of the Law of One material it was used to differentiate between the polarity in consciouness.

Wind
20th April 2015, 00:39
Actually - and seriously, there are only two kinds of people: cat people and dog people

Ha, that's funny. I'm more of a dog person, but I still like cats (at least the nice ones)!

When it comes to Oneness, Aragorn described it rather well. It's not about losing your individuality or uniqueness, but it's about truly realizing that we are not really separate beings.

Oneness is a state of being, a greater understanding if you will. Before we experience and live it, we tend to view the world from a dualistic viewpoint. Everything in due time...

“What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?”

Pris
20th April 2015, 01:01
Well, no, I think you misunderstand the concept of Oneness, or else it has not been properly explained to you -- and many people in the alternative community are actually talking about the Oneness without that they truly understand the concept.

:fpalm:

The Oneness is not a hive mind situation. It is merely a feeling of connectedness with all that is, so that you feel that the only explanation for this connectedness is that we are, indeed, all One. But even within that feeling, you remain your sovereign Self. There is no assimilation. In fact, that assimilation would indeed be a hive mind scenario, where one does not have sovereignty and where the concept of Self does not exist, and most likely not even the concept of love, albeit that I cannot tell that for certain. But either way, in a hive mind situation, your entire existence is nothing other than a mere limb to the collective.

That is definitely not what the Oneness is about. The Oneness is about feeling your own love resonate in somebody else, and theirs in you. :)

I can do you one better, Aragorn: :fpalm: :fpalm:

Okay, I'm glad we're both against the 'hive mind'. Super. :)

As for the other folks then, if I have this correct, the idea is to 'work your way up the ladder', become an 'enlightened master', and eventually -- whilst casting away all sense of 'self' for all eternity -- merge back with the source of this so-called 'Oneness'. In other words, it's about sacrificing oneself back into 'The Source' (that's another one, btw). ;)

Wind
20th April 2015, 01:07
In other words, it's about sacrificing oneself back into 'The Source' (that's another one, btw). ;)

It takes incredible amount of time until the soul returns to the Source... From Source. Even then I don't think that you truly "lose" anything, I think that you become the Source. I could be wrong though, let's talk about it more once we have arrived there. ;)

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 01:08
I can do you one better, Aragorn: :fpalm: :fpalm:

Okay, I'm glad we're both against the 'hive mind'. Super. :)

As for the other folks then, if I have this correct, the idea is to 'work your way up the ladder', become an 'enlightened master', and eventually -- whilst casting away all sense of 'self' for all eternity -- merge back with the source of this so-called 'Oneness'. In other words, it's about sacrificing oneself back into 'The Source' (that's another one, btw). ;)

Personally, I'm not so sure about all that "ascension" stuff, Pris. But then again, I've never been part of this "wheel of evolution" thing, and never wanted to be, because quite evidently, that means that one has to learn by making mistakes, and this is something my kind never wanted to be part of.

I'm not sure, but I think that all of this "ascension" stuff is actually wishful thinking, and -- surprisingly -- usually a desire driven by ego. But that's just my personal take on things. I could be wrong, but my observation of the whole "ascension cheer-leading" crowd has convinced me that I'd most likely be right about that. :D

Pris
20th April 2015, 01:20
...this is something my kind never wanted to be part of.

Something 'your kind' never wanted to be part of? Wait a sec, what happened to 'Oneness', Aragorn? :smile2:

Catsquotl
20th April 2015, 14:07
I see a few themes emerging in this thread that I suppose people think has something to do with consciousness.
Reincarnation by way of karma or karma effects.
Dna as a way to describe why we have not attained full consciousness.
Free will as exercising our right to express our consciousness.

Even though these concepts are important in the way that many people have beliefs and idea's about them I would be mindful not to confuse these concepts with consciousness themselves. Keeping my definition of consciousness in mind. "Everything we can become aware of" Making a distinction between awareness and consciousness itself. I belief these concepts are separate from conciousness.

First lets take karma. In the buddhist texts. Full recollection of all previous lives is a higher siddhi or power. One that is attainable through meditation.
for a sutta reference see:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/wings/part2.html#part2-d

scroll down to:
Passages from the Pali canon
63 (4)

Now in my mind. As was hinted at before by wind. The previous life may have been you, but you had a different state of mind then.
Personally I do not belief it was me. I do belief that life has been the cause of something that still needs a result. In my mind when we are born we make up our own causes (intentions towards some goal) and as service to All we pick and choose a few of the unresolved intentions that still float around in the energyfield of earth waiting to be completed. As far as I'm able to discern such an impersonal intention has within its energetic makeup an imprint of the human being that intended this in the first place. So through that intention, to which I make an agreement to try and resolve, I can access the imprint of that human. As I can only access it by experiencing it as a memory. I am inclined to believe it was me, But as all such experiences are like any phenomena impermanent, unsatisfying and self-less. It can't be me. Even though it was the cause of some event that is playing out now.

Consciousness only comes into play here as the knowing of the event playing out, possibly knowing the cause of the event.(some intention made by a different past human being).

In my personal past I believed that all karmic causes can be known or investigated so that one could take conscious action to not let the bad karma's play out.
It has been the subject of many contemplations to come to this conclusion. And so far it has held up (for me anyway) in face of questions and scrutiny.
Another part of this is that I believed that the reptilian races which supposedly have no soul can somehow make us get a load of their "bad" karma to play out.
Not sure about that one though...

Dna I think can be a cause for the amount of consciousness we can have, although as arhants(fully enlightened ones) everywhere show us. It is not necessary.
One can display all the powers(siddhi's) with training within the bodies we have now. The link with consciousness in my mind is only that access to dormant pieces of DNA may cause us to become aware and thus conscious of more of the universal bandwidths through different physical and non-physical sense-bases I do believe though that even someone with 12 strands of fully functional and switched on DNA can act like a mindless fool. Unaware of what he or she possesses.

And then free will. The problem with free will I think is that as long as we are in a human body it is not free. Are we free for example to stop breathing. To stop caring for our bodies. denying it food and water. To me fee will is more the freedom we have to react to life's circumstances. We can chooses to become angry, we can choose to love. we can choose to act or to ignore. We can't choose to breathe under water. So free will for me has to do with choice. hey are mutually dependent as one cannot exist without the other.

With Love
Eelco

Wind
20th April 2015, 14:16
And then free will. The problem with free will I think is that as long as we are in a human body it is not free. Are we free for example to stop breathing. To stop caring for our bodies. denying it food and water. To me fee will is more the freedom we have to react to life's circumstances. We can chooses to become angry, we can choose to love. we can choose to act or to ignore. We can't choose to breathe under water. So free will for me has to do with choice. hey are mutually dependent as one cannot exist without the other.

Hi Eelco,

You just prompted me to post this...

“The Real ‘You’ Comes and Goes” (https://creativesystemsthinking.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/the-real-you-comes-and-goes-alan-watts/)

“You have seen that the universe is at root a magical illusion and a fabulous game, and that there is no separate ‘you’ to get something out of it, as if life were a bank to be robbed. The only real ‘you’ is the one that comes and goes, manifests and withdraws itself eternally in and as every conscious being. For ‘you’ is the universe looking at itself from billions of points of view, points that come and go so that the vision is forever new.”

https://creativesystemsthinking.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/john-reilly-art.jpg?w=593&h=433

“There is a Zen poem that talks about ‘IT,’ meaning the mystical experience, satori, the realization that you are, as Jesus was, the eternal energy of the universe. The poem says, ‘You cannot catch hold of it, nor can you get rid of it. In not being able to get it, you get it. When you speak, it is silent. When you are silent, it speaks.’

This phrase—not being able to get it, you get it—is the feeling Krishnamurti tries to convey to people when he says, ‘Why do you ask for a method? There is no method. All methods are simply gimmicks for strengthening your ego.’ How do we not ask for a method? He answers, ‘In asking that, you are still asking for a method.’

There is no method. If you really understand what your ‘I’ is, you will see there is no method. We think this is so sad, but it is not. This is the gospel, the good news, because if you cannot achieve it, if you cannot transform yourself, that means that, the main obstacle to mystical vision has collapsed. That obstacle was you.

What happens next? By now you are at your wit’s end, but what are you going to do—commit suicide? Suppose you just put that off for a little while, and wait and see what happens.

You cannot control your thoughts, and you cannot control your feelings, because there is no controller. You are your thoughts and your feelings, and they are running along, running along, running along.

Just sit and watch them. There they go. You are still breathing, aren’t you? Still growing your hair; still seeing and hearing. Are YOU doing that? Is breathing something that YOU do? Do you see? Do you organize the operations of your eyes, and know exactly how to work those rods and cones in the retina? Do you do that?

It happens, and it is a happening. Your breathing is happening. Your thinking is happening. Your feeling is happening. Your hearing, your seeing, the clouds are happening across the sky. The sky is happening blue; the sun is happening shining. There it is: all this happening.

May I introduce you? This is yourself. This is a vision of who you really are, and the way you really function. You function by happening, that is to say, by spontaneous occurrence.

This is not a state of affairs that you should realize. I cannot possibly preach about it to you, because the minute you start thinking, ‘I should understand that,’ the stupid notion that ‘I’ should bring it about arises again, when there is no ‘you’ to bring it about. That is why I am not preaching. You can only preach to egos. All I can do is talk about what is.

Once you have seen this you can return to the world of practical affairs with a new spirit. You have seen that the universe is at root a magical illusion and a fabulous game, and that there is no separate ‘you’ to get something out of it, as if life were a bank to be robbed.

The only real ‘you’ is the one that comes and goes, manifests and withdraws itself eternally in and as every conscious being. For ‘you’ is the universe looking at itself from billions of points of view, points that come and go so that the vision is forever new.

You do not ask what is the value, or what is the use, of this feeling. Of what use is the universe? What is the practical application of a million galaxies?”

~ Alan Watts

Pris
20th April 2015, 19:17
So free will for me has to do with choice.


http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/the-illusion-of-free-choice.jpg

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 19:24
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/the-illusion-of-free-choice.jpg

That's a very good point you bring up, Pris. A bit extreme perhaps, but it opens up a whole new avenue to the debate, namely predestination versus Free Will.

In my own experience, Free Will is not an absolutely quantifiable thing, but rather a dynamic, graduated and subjective concept. I believe that there are different degrees of Free Will, that the extent of someone's Free Will may differ from someone else's Free Will at the same time and in the same place, and that the degree of freedom in Free Will within each individual being varies, depending on the subject and the circumstances they are finding themselves in.

By consequence, I also feel that the same thing is true with regard to predestination.

Omnisense
20th April 2015, 19:37
I wrote a blog post about about the mechanics of perception. I reposted it on TOT here:
http://jandeane81.com/threads/6495-Omnisense-s-Blog-Exploring-the-Omniverse-%28Experiencer-Targeted-Individual%29?p=841918132&viewfull=1#post841918132

A couple artworks from the blog post:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--oF-QjhTmyQ/VTVIZDRwb4I/AAAAAAAABA4/cMXfkrNON1I/s400/OmniverseHolographic.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2xUmPCxz2Po/VLCnZ_xCqhI/AAAAAAAAAdk/8WpClFjdtuA/s320/Perspective.jpg

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 19:39
I wrote a blog post about about the mechanics of perception. I reposted it on TOT here:
http://jandeane81.com/threads/6495-Omnisense-s-Blog-Exploring-the-Omniverse-%28Experiencer-Targeted-Individual%29?p=841918132&viewfull=1#post841918132

A couple artworks from the blog post:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--oF-QjhTmyQ/VTVIZDRwb4I/AAAAAAAABA4/cMXfkrNON1I/s400/OmniverseHolographic.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2xUmPCxz2Po/VLCnZ_xCqhI/AAAAAAAAAdk/8WpClFjdtuA/s320/Perspective.jpg

Yes, Omni, I've seen that, and your analysis is pretty good, I must say. ;-)

Pris
20th April 2015, 19:59
“The Real ‘You’ Comes and Goes” (https://creativesystemsthinking.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/the-real-you-comes-and-goes-alan-watts/)

“You cannot control your thoughts, and you cannot control your feelings, because there is no controller. You are your thoughts and your feelings, and they are running along, running along, running along.”

~ Alan Watts


I'd say this is debatable.

I think it's probably true that you cannot control your initial thoughts/feelings. You can control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings. And, when you control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings, you control the intensity/course of the thoughts/feelings to a great degree. At least, I know, I can.

Catsquotl
20th April 2015, 20:13
I'd say this is debatable.

I think it's probably true that you cannot control your initial thoughts/feelings. You can control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings. And, when you control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings, you control the intensity/course of the thoughts/feelings to a great degree. At least, I know, I can.

Right exercising your free will.
But then you already showed where these reaction lead you didn't you.

Or do you think there's more to free will than that.

With Love
Eelco


http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/the-illusion-of-free-choice.jpg

This image may lead one into thinking there's only 2 choices here. I think there's at least 2 more.
not moving.
going back.

All choices though are reactionary to the events happening.

with Love
Eelco

Pris
20th April 2015, 20:28
Right exercising your free will.
But then you already showed where these reaction lead you didn't you.

Or do you think there's more to free will than that.

With Love
Eelco


I have no idea if my 'will' is 'free'. It's possible I'm just going through the motions of someone else's dream.

That Guy
20th April 2015, 20:33
This image may lead one into thinking there's only 2 choices here. I think there's at least 2 more.
not moving.
going back.

All choices though are reactionary to the events happening.

with Love
Eelco

Don't forget around and up and over:eyebrows:

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 20:44
I have no idea if my 'will' is 'free'. It's possible I'm just going through the motions of someone else's dream.

Then it still is Free Will, because in the very moment that you're making a decision, it is you who is making that decision, and thus you who bears the responsibility for said decision. And that is actually one of the primary mechanisms behind Creation itself. ;)

Of course, as Omni has already explained elsewhere, mind control can influence you in your decision-making, and mind control is a concept ranging all the way from indoctrination, propaganda and conditioning over to coercion via technological means or by contamination of your body and brain with mind-altering substances. In such cases -- i.e. coercion -- your Free Will has been completely taken away from you, and you bear no responsibility for your actions while you are under that influence.

Free Will is a multi-dimensional subject, because it weighs your sense of ethics against the information that you possess. You might be doing something because you feel that it is the right thing to do, but at the same time, you may not have all the information, and it could easily turn out that what you thought was the right thing to do would actually be very, very wrong.

Outlander
20th April 2015, 20:53
Free will is the choice to do one thing or the other.

I could have called a (girl)friend of mine yesterday, but I felt it would be smarter to do it today.

Choose and bare the consequences.

Pris
20th April 2015, 20:56
Then it still is Free Will, because in the very moment that you're making a decision, it is you who is making that decision, and thus you who bears the responsibility for said decision. And that is actually one of the primary mechanisms behind Creation itself. ;)

Of course, as Omni has already explained elsewhere, mind control can influence you in your decision-making, and mind control is a concept ranging all the way from indoctrination, propaganda and conditioning over to coercion via technological means or by contamination of your body and brain with mind-altering substances. In such cases -- i.e. coercion -- your Free Will has been completely taken away from you, and you bear no responsibility for your actions while you are under that influence.

Free Will is a multi-dimensional subject, because it weighs your sense of ethics against the information that you possess. You might be doing something because you feel that it is the right thing to do, but at the same time, you may not have all the information, and it could easily turn out that what you thought was the right thing to do would actually be very, very wrong.

Are we talking about this within the confines of linear time? Non-linear time? Circular time? No time? If everything that ever was and will ever be is already 'written', what's so 'free' about any of this?

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 21:13
Are we talking about this within the confines of linear time? Non-linear time? Circular time? No time?

I would say that my definition there was focusing on the moment of the decision-making, and therefore the Now.


If everything that ever was and will ever be is already 'written', what's so 'free' about any of this?

It's more complicated than that. Everything may already be written, but you still bear the responsibility, because it is you making the decision, with the information that you have. Only the author knows how the novel ends -- and there may even be alternative endings -- but the reader has to find out as he/she goes along, and it's the characters in the novel who make the decisions. Only, in their case, of course, they don't have Free Will, because it was the author who made them do and say whatever it is that they do and say.

Pris
20th April 2015, 21:21
Are we talking about this within the confines of linear time? Non-linear time? Circular time? No time?

I would say that my definition there was focusing on the moment of the decision-making, and therefore the Now.


The 'Now'?! Defined precisely by whose yardstick??

Outlander
20th April 2015, 21:26
The 'Now'?! Defined precisely by whose yardstick??

Jay Weidner - Monochronic Time & Polychromatic Time


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze0_wfG3_HY

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 21:31
The 'Now'?! Defined precisely by whose yardstick??

There is only the Now, Pris. I don't see how anyone could possibly have different yardsticks for that.

The moment is the moment. It's where the focus of your consciousness is when you are making a decision.

Pris
20th April 2015, 21:36
The 'Now'?! Defined precisely by whose yardstick??

Jay Weidner - Monochronic Time & Polychromatic Time


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze0_wfG3_HY


That was a rhetorical question. :fpalm:

Outlander
20th April 2015, 21:37
There is only the Now, Pris. I don't see how anyone could possibly have different yardsticks for that.

The moment is the moment. It's where the focus of your consciousness is when you are making a decision.

That's got everything to do with Tai Ming - an extraterrestrial martial art.

Some things can only be said once.


That was a rhetorical question. :fpalm:
Watched the vid, Pris?

Super informative/interesting!

And only 11:29...

Aragorn
20th April 2015, 22:00
That's got everything to do with Tai Ming - an extraterrestrial martial art.


:yoda:

:ha:

That Guy
20th April 2015, 22:05
Tai Ming an extraterrestrial martial art.

Got link?....You at least have to give us a link when you say these sort of things. Who's martial art is it, the Blue Lesbians from the Chlamydia nebula?

And why the hell does it have a Chinese name, dear God, ET doesn't have a good imagination at all, either that or the Chinese are to lazy to come up with their own language.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICkAdTD1WQ

Chester
21st April 2015, 01:57
I had always thought that a "consciousness shift" was actually a shift in POV (point of view).

And this applies to individuals who eventually form collectives.

It is easy to recognize that the vast majority of humanity has slipped into being comfortable and this facilitates a small number within humanity to steer the direction it all goes. All parties sharing in the responsibility.

Aragorn
21st April 2015, 02:31
I had always thought that a "consciousness shift" was actually a shift in POV (point of view).

Yes, that is what I myself also believe, Sam. I think that too many people in the so-called alternative community are hoping for the consciousness shift to be something exotic, that they would suddenly become godlike or something like that. That, in my humble opinion, would rather be a pipe dream than a realistic vision for the future.



And this applies to individuals who eventually form collectives.

It is easy to recognize that the vast majority of humanity has slipped into being comfortable and this facilitates a small number within humanity to steer the direction it all goes. All parties sharing in the responsibility.

Yes... We often use the expression that the majority of humanity is asleep and needs to awaken, and that is actually not such a far-fetched description. When one is asleep, one's consciousness is very narrow and one's energetic signature -- i.e. that which we call "vibrations" -- is very low.

The problem is that Mankind has become intellectually lazy. Humanity has allowed itself to be lulled asleep by all the consumerist gadgets, ego games, social status, dumbing-down soap operas and commercial ads, political propaganda, territorial disputes, and above all, the struggle to survive in the highly competitive corporate world, feeding the very machine that consumes us.

Sad, innit?

Outlander
21st April 2015, 03:17
Got link?....You at least have to give us a link when you say these sort of things. Who's martial art is it, the Blue Lesbians from the Chlamydia nebula?
I made it up myself, or actually my Guardian Angel did, she has a black belt in Tai Ming, if I may believe her - and why not?

Aragorn
21st April 2015, 03:33
I made it up myself, or actually my Guardian Angle did, she has a black belt in Tai Ming, if I may believe her - and why not?

Would that be a 90° angle, or a 45° angle? :p

InCiDeR
21st April 2015, 04:33
Alright, I give it another go.

I struggle to explain my thought process regarding this matter even when using my mother tongue, so please bear with me. I hope this will make sense to anyone.

I apologize if similar thoughts already have been presented, I am not up to date with all posts in this thread yet.

Here we go...

Oneness in a perspective from a confused thought cloud and a fractal mind:


---

When you observe another person, where do you really see him or her?

In front of you, standing in an external world, representing a "real" solid object in an outside world,

or as a mental representation within your mind?

I would say as a mental representation, an image within you, created by you using your brain as a tool.


If you didn't have any inputs of sensoric information from your senses to your brain, would there still be an image of an outside world (i.e mental representation) within your mind?

Could there still be a universe outside yourself that exists independently, without you observing it and none of your senses interacting with it?

To my current knowledge and understanding, both questions are impossible to answer with certainty from a viewpoint within this existing realm and perceived reality.


But what about all observers that are already dead? The world we live in now didn't cease to exist when they died and stopped interacting with it, neither did their local surrounding vanish in their death moment.

Wouldn't that be an indication that an outside world could exist independently without anyone observing it and interacting with it?

Not necessarily.

There are still observers alive who are interacting with that outside world.

So how many observers does it take to keep the outside world "alive", "real" and manifest?


One...

maybe?


Likewise, If you do have inputs of sensoric information from your senses to your brain,

everything you observe and interact with, are in my view just mental representations of those objects within your mind.

So all people (other observers) you observe will also be mental representations within your mind.

In a way, they are you,

because your brain "produce" the necessary components to create these mental representations of other people in your mind.


In conclusion, it seems to take one observer of the external world to keep that world "alive", "real" and manifest,

and one observer of the internal world to keep the mental representations "alive", "real" and manifest.



As without, so within.

I am the one that are us.


I used to have Multiple Personality Disorder, but we are ok now.

---

Cup
21st April 2015, 08:12
Where did this terminology originally come from -- 'Service to Self' and 'Service to Others'? It does seem rather 'black and white', doesn't it? Lately, it's been making me feel very uncomfortable. I used to 'buy' it, but I find the way it's crept into our conversation 'as if it is so' quite disturbing.

All of us do things for ourselves AND for others. It's just a matter of degree. I will always be of service to myself. There are things I must do for myself on a regular basis -- like bathe.

But, seriously. Anything delineated as 'black and white' strikes me as a con job. It's the 'us vs them' mentality.

Yes, agree. It's "new age" lingo but it does describe the basic dichotomy in the matrix between acting in ego and unselfish love. I guess the gray scales are implied, as you point out it's almost always a mix.


By all means! :)

Btw, if you don't mind my asking, is your cup empty, full, half empty, or half full? Or, as far as those choices are concerned, simultaneously all and none from a non-linear perspective?

My cup is always full, at the same time there is always room for more :) Always looking for new stuff to pour in :love:


If you don't 'serve yourself' and prosper, how can you ever serve others?

For most people serving others is an excuse for not facing/taking care of their own problems first.

Very important, I like that.


Numbers are not always what they appear to be :scrhd:

You fascinate me, did I say that before?

: Sherlock:


Getting back to, 'Oneness', that just comes across so.... dogmatic to me, I can't even tell yah. Labeling the feeling of 'connectedness' as 'Oneness' opens up the door to losing oneself in this so-called 'Oneness'. And, I'm not for that. In fact, my entire being screams to remain sovereign 'till the end of time... if you see what I mean. I've no intention of being... absorbed... back into this 'Oneness' from which I supposedly tore myself away (if I did, who freakin' knows) and lose everything that makes me 'I'. Btw, my sense of 'self' is different from my sense of 'ego'.

There is a philosophical school in India that stresses the notion of "Oneness and Difference". I admit I resonate with that. I'm connected with everything and everyone at the same time I'm an unique individual.


Btw, my sense of 'self' is different from my sense of 'ego'.

Indeed. Ego is something interesting as well. We have ego related to this body suit, I'm dog, I'm cat, I'm human, I'm Blue Avian (if they exist) I'm beautiful, I'm ugly, I'm hungry etc and then we have ego related to Soul. I am Me, I am Presence, I am Mighty, I am Self, I am Eternal, I am Love, I am (part of) Source etc.


I'd say this is debatable.

I think it's probably true that you cannot control your initial thoughts/feelings. You can control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings. And, when you control your reaction to those thoughts/feelings, you control the intensity/course of the thoughts/feelings to a great degree. At least, I know, I can.

I'm with you Pris (again) :swing:

The initial purpose of all types of (orthodox, old school) yoga is to master the mind. To control it. There are many ways to do so, through breathing, through yoga postures, though mantra meditation, or a combination of them.

When that initial stage (for most of us extremely difficult) is mastered then the focus and attention can be directed to Source.


Are we talking about this within the confines of linear time? Non-linear time? Circular time? No time

We could for the sake of discussion relate this to what we talked about earlier about Ego relating to our body suit. On the body suit level we have free will but as Omniverse points out that is always subject to external conditioning, influences and manipulation. That would relate to the confines of linear time.

We also have free will related to the "real" Ego, that of You and Me. In one sense the confines of non-linear or no-time dimensions. The effects and manifestations of free will relating to the body ego are often quite immediate but the effects of exercising free will on the "real" Us level are in general not that immediate. That free will deals with the major course we are taking in our journey through time and space and plays out on a different time scale as it were.

Something akin to turning a super tanker. The super tanker may take a very long time to react to a command of the captain due to the inherent forces that are in play. But eventually it will change course.


If everything that ever was and will ever be is already 'written', what's so 'free' about any of this?

I may know beforehand that I will find you smiling under that tree, happily swinging back and forth in the sunshine. It doesn't mean you didn't go there by free will.

InCiDeR
21st April 2015, 10:39
(...) If everything that ever was and will ever be is already 'written', what's so 'free' about any of this?(...)

In one way everything is already written. If you take π (pi). Being an irrational number, π cannot be expressed exactly as a common fraction, although fractions such as 22/7 and other rational numbers are commonly used to approximate π. Consequently its decimal representation never ends and never settles into a permanent repeating pattern. The digits appear to be randomly distributed; however, to date, no proof of this has been discovered.

If the above is true, and you replace the digits with letters. Everything that has been "written", "written" at the moment or will be "written" already exists within π (pi). Somewhere along the infinite numbers of digits, there will be a sequence that correspond to the bible, my thoughts right now or even tomorrow's newspaper...

or... ?! :hmm:


wonder if π (pi) has a free will ;)

Outlander
21st April 2015, 11:06
Very important, I like that.
Thank you Cup!

InCiDeR
21st April 2015, 12:38
Would that be a 90° angle, or a 45° angle? :p

We have to be careful, though, not to consider these things from one angle alone...

Church
21st April 2015, 20:53
Threads have been merged, contiguous posts have been merged, and off topic chatter has been removed.

:back to topic:

Dreamtimer
22nd April 2015, 12:16
I went back to the OP. "...everything we can be aware of..." Makes me think of the phrase, "Know Thyself". How well do we know ourselves? How self-aware are we? Many don't like to look too hard in the mirror.

Emotions have such a strong effect on consciousness. They can gravely cloud or greatly increase it.

We are connected to others' consciousnesses. Some of those others are aware, some aren't. Consciousness is an individual and a group state.

I'm expanding my awareness with my dream work. Consciousness is dreams is very different than in physical waking life (for me).

It seems there's a threshold where we move from conscious to super-conscious.

It takes a certain kind of awareness to be conscientious.

Catsquotl
22nd April 2015, 13:51
Hi Dreamtimer,

Would you like to expand on the difference between your waking and dream consciousness?
You say they are very different. If so I'd like to find out where they differ. In my current understanding of consciousness. I have the idea that that which is consciousness behaves the same.

I don't remember my dreams very well, but if I do I am always amazed that they feel as real as day to day life even though the events are waaaay different.

With Love
Eelco

Dreamtimer
22nd April 2015, 15:22
Eelco, It's more like two different aspects of consciousness.

In waking life I'm instinctive. My judgement has many parts: logic and analysis, experience, emotion, knowledge, instincts, and more. My instincts are crucial and can be a trump card that sends me in a different direction from the others.

In dreams my consciousness is primarily instinctive. Logic and analysis don't fit well into the fluid dreamscape.

So, in waking life my instincts may tell me to do something and I don't really understand but I trust them even if I feel a little trepidation. The logical mind is strong so I have to not let it dominate.

In dreams, I go forward in a way that I know exactly where I'm going/or what I'm doing even though I have no idea why or what's going to happen. I don't even worry about it because I know I have to go that way.

In dreams things often don't make sense because stuff hasn't happened yet. In waking life I sometimes have to be patient for a really long time before I can understand a dream. My conscious mind doesn't see forward the way my dreaming mind does.

You may find it interesting that as part of my efforts to recall dreams better I'm working on bringing my dream mind and waking mind closer together.

Catsquotl
22nd April 2015, 17:30
I see...

As we are exploring consciousness I am going to do some nitpicking.
In you waking state you say your consciousness concists of:
Instinct, Logic, analysis, experience, emotion, knowledge and an undefined more..

In your dreamstate it's just instinct, maybe more, but definetely not logic and analysis.

Also in dreamstate there is an inate knowing of doing what has to be done.
In waking you trust you are doing what needs to be done, but you have more worries about that.

If i have understood your post correctly I'd say that even though we use the "everything we can be aware of" The trust on your instinct you describe doesn't fit that definition. As you do what your instincts tell you to do, but you are not sure of how and why. especially in you waking state. where in dreams you don't care why it just feels right.

Just some random nitpicks and thoughts...
With Love
Eelco

Catsquotl
22nd April 2015, 17:49
I was thinking about it, and i Think i'm ready to adjust my defenition of consciousness.
"Consciousness is everything we can are aware of as it happens".

That way we can differentiate between what is happening now in our experiental reality and what is happening in the mind as thoughts, memories, expectations etc.
Thinking about an idea for instance means we can be consciouss of the fact that we are thinking, because that's what is happening, but let the content of these thoughts for what they are.

Dwelling on past events are known consciously as thingking about the past.
Intentions can be known then as thinking about the future.

Dreams depending on whether they are lucid or not either as memories, thinking about the past. or experiental direct knowing of the dreamstate.
With Love
Eelco

Dreamtimer
22nd April 2015, 18:17
Eelco,

I didn't say so, but I know that my instincts are heavily influenced by my dreams. Following my instincts is nearly the same thing as following my dreams. I don't recall them all, but they are present in my instincts. Often, I'll recall a dream later, after an event. I recognized the event though I didn't specifically recall the dream. Deja vu is directly connected to this.

As my dreaming and waking mind come together, my awareness will be more specific, complete, and less instinctive. I'll act on knowledge rather than/in addition to instinct.

This means my conscious awareness develops and expands (and contracts at times).

Sebastion
23rd April 2015, 00:35
To answer the title of this thread, I will present what follows. As the Kybalion states, The All is Mind, the Universe(s) is/are Mental. Consciousness is electrical in nature and vibrates at between 7.8 and 8.4 Hz. Note that the medical field can monitor your electrical brain impulses by using an EEG machine. Note also that they use an ECG to monitor electrical impulses of the heart, proof enough to see that there is a lot of electrical activity going on in the human body. When the spirit or consciousness leaves the body, all electrical activity ceases.

Electricity within itself has many frequencies. Just like old fashioned am/fm radios had dials you could turn to pick up different frequencies for different radio stations. Conscious awareness works on that same principle. The whole secret regarding conscious awareness can be answered by looking at what it is that picks up electrical frequencies in the body. That can be answered simply-it's the neurons and neural networks primarily found in the brain/brain cavity although the body is replete with these neural networks, etc. Above the head and surrounding it is what is referred to as the crown chakra/nimbus. It is a great light within itself. It is the neural networks, neurons primarily within the brain cavity which picks up information at different frequencies within the nimbus. Food for higher thought.

Addressing the thread title directly, one cannot know what consciousness is as a whole. Mind cannot be used to seek something from mind because mind cannot grasp mind. If you think you can understand what Universal Mind, consciousness is, by using mind in an attempt to grasp the whole, all I can say is good luck with that because that is impossible. Let it be known that mind cannot be used to seek something from mind but the spirit can be used to seek spirit. You are first and foremost a spirit being after all and to ignore that aspect is highly detrimental to yourself.

Catsquotl
23rd April 2015, 11:17
So does consciousness exist outside our awareness?
If we are tuned to a specific frequency of consciousness, are we then conscious of only that frequency?

By what definition does the whole of consciousness go, and what should we call that what we as individuals van become conscious of.

taken that consciousness is One. are we then part conscious. can we become fully conscious. If so how.
Is it possible from within a 3d body.

Obviously some say it can, at the same time the early enlightened ones did make a distinction between various functions and modes of consciousness.

With Love
Eelco

Dreamtimer
23rd April 2015, 11:26
We're alive in these bodies but we're not always constrained by them. We leave the bounds of the physical when we travel astrally, dream, and other ways. We expand and experience and are unbound by space and time. We can't always recall. Maybe it's too much. Maybe it's too distracting. Honestly, if I could really recall my full spirit/soul knowledge and experience, this life and time here would be seen from a relative perspective and maybe I might decide I really don't need to come back, that there are bigger things to see or do. But I believe we're here for a reason and so we must experience this as our primary existence rather than the station stop that it is. So there's a veil. We don't always recall our full consciousness. We get reminders in dreams, visions, etc.

Sebastion
23rd April 2015, 14:40
Allow me to continue to expand upon my last post from my own experiences directly.

Anthony Robbins used to say that it took 21 days for anything to become a habit. He also freely admitted that he did not know why that was the case. I was extremely curious myself as to just why that was until I overheard a neurosurgeon state that it took neurons, neural networks, etc. 21 days to come up and active again after surgery. There is your first major clue.

Guerdjieff stated that when you unite the intent of the mind (masculine) with the intent of the heart(feminine), a third energy is produced. To become united within yourself regarding intent is, in my experience, the most powerful thing one can do for oneself because it produces results magnificently. You become united within your own beingness. Now let's suppose your intent is to make connections with your own higher mind and you are very passionate about it. That energy of pure intent will begin producing a neural network within the brain which will come online at the particular frequency necessary to access that area of awareness within the great light which surrounds your head. I have been working with that knowledge for over 30 years, off and on.

I was pleased to happen upon Dr Joe Dispenza's books last year and was very well pleased with what he has to say regarding neurons, neural networks, etc. as he confirmed my knowledge regarding that subject. You might want to check out what he has to say, for me it was good reading and an excellent source of knowledge for understanding what I am attempting to explain.

Please be advised that one has to be totally committed as this is not a race but a marathon. It is as Yoda has stated: Do or do not, there is no try.

You already have within you all the answers to whatever questions you have. The way to access that knowledge is to develop the neural networks which will allow you access to that knowledge by the use of pure intent to know.







So does consciousness exist outside our awareness?
If we are tuned to a specific frequency of consciousness, are we then conscious of only that frequency?

By what definition does the whole of consciousness go, and what should we call that what we as individuals van become conscious of.

taken that consciousness is One. are we then part conscious. can we become fully conscious. If so how.
Is it possible from within a 3d body.

Obviously some say it can, at the same time the early enlightened ones did make a distinction between various functions and modes of consciousness.

With Love
Eelco

Aragorn
23rd April 2015, 15:26
So does consciousness exist outside our awareness?
If we are tuned to a specific frequency of consciousness, are we then conscious of only that frequency?

By what definition does the whole of consciousness go, and what should we call that what we as individuals van become conscious of.

taken that consciousness is One. are we then part conscious. can we become fully conscious. If so how.
Is it possible from within a 3d body.

Obviously some say it can, at the same time the early enlightened ones did make a distinction between various functions and modes of consciousness.

With Love
Eelco

As they say, your mileage may vary, but I maintain that consciousness itself is merely the ability of something to accept information from something else -- as in "the ability to observe" -- and that, thus, consciousness itself is nothing other than life, or existence itself.

That which is being spoken about in the last couple of posts to this thread is not consciousness, but the mind, and that is quite a different thing. The mind is the interface between consciousness and the soul/spirit. It overlaps on both. And that is also why we have awareness. Awareness is more or less the focusing lens of the mind. So you cannot "raise your consciousness", but you can raise your awareness.

Putting it in computer jargon, consciousness is the primary input system, the soul is the operating system, the mind is the CPU and the memory chips, and the body is another input system, which also doubles as output, because here in this reality, we need our bodies to bring our actions into materialization.

Dreamtimer
23rd April 2015, 15:34
Aragorn, I really like that and if I was a computer person I'd like it even more. I've definitely been talking about the mind and states of mind. Existence is. So, Consciousness is.

I might continue to say consciousness in lieu of awareness and, now that I'm more acutely aware, I may not.

Aragorn
23rd April 2015, 15:53
Aragorn, I really like that and if I was a computer person I'd like it even more. I've definitely been talking about the mind and states of mind. Existence is. So, Consciousness is.

I might continue to say consciousness in lieu of awareness and, now that I'm more acutely aware, I may not.

Yes, it's the vernacular which gets us into trouble all the time, isn't it? ;) People like tossing all these fancy words around, even if those words do not actually mean what people are trying to convey. And unfortunately, we see a lot of that here within the so-called alternative community as well -- perhaps even more so than anywhere else, and it's all part of the mis- and disinformation.

Take the word "dimension" for instance. Many people still believe that a dimension is "a place", as in "They are beings from another dimension." Kerry Cassidy is one of those people who gratuitously throw that word around, probably because "it sounds cool", but in doing that, she is totally misrepresenting things, and for someone who professes that they want to bring out The Truth™, that is a very grave mistake to make. In persisting at using the incorrect vernacular, she only contributes to the noise and the misconceptions.

I've tried to get her to understand that, but she has never replied to a single e-mail I sent her. And why should she? I wasn't a Looking Glass whistle-blower or someone with information on "the Annunaki". :ttr: And that's another word she keeps on misappropriating. The Annunaki are not a species or a particular off-wold civilization. The word "annunaki" is Sumerian and simply means "those who come from the heavens". ;)

Dreamtimer
23rd April 2015, 17:00
Words are tricky. I watched the vid about words on Outlander's thread. Gotye did a great video w/ words.

Confederation is different than Federation.

I wish 'rationalize' didn't sound so close to 'rational'.

So, if Annunaki are those who come from the heavens, is there a general word for us? i.e. earthlings, terrans, grounders (made that up), or something?

Dreamtimer
23rd April 2015, 17:03
I have a friend who says cognitive instead of cognizant. Different kinds of awareness.

Catsquotl
24th April 2015, 04:09
Kybalion: All is mind,
It also explains that all the phenomenal world or universe is simply a Mental Creation of THE ALL

Buddha(dhammapada verse 1): All mental phenomena have mind as their forerunner; they have mind as their chief; they are mind-made.

To end with my favorite quote Ian xel lungold:
"Whatever we turn our attention to is what we become conscious of"

With Love
Eelco

InCiDeR
24th April 2015, 04:27
As some of you already so nicely put it. Words can be tricky. Even so the concept of existence. I wrote this in a thread regarding if time is an illusion or not.

However it touches the concepts of words, existence, exists and also consciousness.

Because consciousness to me is intertwined with thought.

...so I guess I am not totally off topic here:


---

- How long is a thought?


...or the time inbetween thoughts?
Do all my thoughts regarding a matter occur simultaneously?
That would probably give me a nice little jacket with the arms wrapped around my back

But maybe they happen simultaneously

I have a conscious thought here
in this perceived reality
meanwhile
another version of me
have a different thought
at the same time

If you believe in infinity and multiverses
that means I have infinite numbers of thoughts
at the present moment
In a way, I already thought about everything


so relax


But if they do not happen simultaneously
there will be a time frame between two thoughts
So even if the perceived reality is an illusion
and therefore the concept of time in that reality
also would be an illusion
we still have to answer my first question.


- How long is a thought?


Maybe the perceived reality changes in entanglement with my thoughts
When the conscious thought moves in time
so does the perceived reality
meaning no time have passed per se....
or...
has it?

---

I guess it all comes down to definitions
the very core of the language
the essence of communication and understanding
and finally conscioussness, existence and to be... or not to be (pun intended)

Words.... what are they?

The definition of words I figured is not only about the definitions in itself.
Many times it also have a cultural value.
I mean USA probably means something different to a person living in USA
than a person living elsewhere.

And even the most simplest words are hard to explain ... really explain... to another person.

For example the word subway (or metro in some countries)


Full Definition of SUBWAY

: an underground way: as
a : a passage under a street (as for pedestrians, power cables, or water or gas mains)
b : a usually electric underground railway
c : underpass
— subway intransitive verb
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subway

Did you picture that definition before your eyes when I wrote subway the first time?

I didn't. I saw the train itself.

When I lived in the countryside. We had no subway.
Therefore the word subway had a different meaning or I had a different personal definition.
I just pictured the train in an underground tunnel in my mind.

But when I moved to a big city the definition changed
It grow and became so much more than a definition
that could be put into a simple sentence.

The personal definition became littered with memories, expectations, emotions, feelings.
The simple word subway lived by itself as an organic entity
Something I realised I could not fully explain to someone else.

Not even to the person sharing the same seat in the train
because that persons definition would probably be different...
a composition of his/hers whole history and relation to the word.

---

Time again
to go back in time
to the word time

How do we personally define the word time and its concept.
You will probably get a different answer depending if you ask a scientist, theolog, spiritualist or...
anyone else.

Time seems to be correlated and intertwined with
both the concept of reality and the concept of existence.

I wrote this about existence in another thread:


The limits of the language and use of words collapse the discussion of Solipsism into itself.

Philosophy explanation: The theory that only the self exists, or can be proved to exist.

This explanation use the word self. By using the word self in the explanation, the explanation insinuates that something exists that is not self. Otherwise would not the word self exists.


Does "existence" exist?

In some statements, existence is implied without being mentioned. The statement "A bridge crosses the Thames at Hammersmith" cannot just be about a bridge, the Thames, and Hammersmith. It must be about "existence" as well.

On the other hand, the statement "A bridge crosses the Styx at Limbo" has the same form, but while in the first case we understand a real bridge in the real world made of stone or brick, what "existence" would mean in the second case is less clear.


Does exist exists?

Do I exist just because there "exists" a word in our language - Exist - that I/we agreed upon?

In so, if the word "Exist" exists there must be a common sense of "exist" in my/our body/mind/spirit complex otherwise the word "Exist" and the common sense of it have no meaning and therefore does not exist.

---

Pof... InCiDeR cease to exist in a logical quantum cloud loop that might or might not exist ;)

so.... would time exist without an existence of a consciousness?
Will a consciousness arise in any system within time
so time in itself can be discovered and defined?
or vice verse?


That is why I wrote:


Time is

where it ought to be

not so much

elsewhere

it in itself

hasn't got the time....

the time of illusion.


But the question remains



- How long is a thought?

Catsquotl
24th April 2015, 09:29
- How long is a thought?

Instantaneous. every moment again and again.
Sometimes the same one rises and passes again and again giving the illusion of some permanence or progression in time.

There is no progression. Just NOW

With Love
Eelco

Dreamtimer
24th April 2015, 11:01
"How long is a thought?" Ever awakened from a whole dream about a sound that you're still hearing upon waking? A whole dream in the blink of an eye. There's not time for that. The brain can't transmit that fast. Can it? Thoughts and experience can't be measured with time. Consciousness isn't bound by time. We can measure brain chemistry, but that's not the same thing. And time is often a matter of perspective.

Sebastion
24th April 2015, 13:00
Since we are defining words, I would be curious Aragorn, what your definition for dimension vs the word density is. I freely admit never once having any thoughts regarding whether a particular dimension was a place or not.

Outlander
24th April 2015, 13:26
Your thoughts are the essence of your 'being' - your soul, so to say.

When you die your thoughts continue, therefor your confronted not so much with 'God' but with yourself.

You have to face yourself - look at yourself in a 'mirror'.

Those with a clear/clean conscious can 'jump' through the mirror into the universe and escape the matrix.

Those with a burdened conscious can't and are drawn into the tunnel of light, where after they're reborn, remembering their previous life but unable to speak, as babies can't talk.

By the time you can express your thoughts, you have forgotten your past life, as happens with dreams you forget - sometimes instantly.

Make no mistake: dying is only pleasant when your conscious is not burdened by matters you can blame yourself for.

Murder, Treason, Disloyalty and Deceit are true sins.

Therefor the ultimate goal of the so called 'illuminated' (Illuminati) is to find the secret of eternal life, so they don't have to face the risk/punishment of being born again as a 'nobody'.

One of the worst condemnations you can put upon those who willfully and purposely deceit/betray honest faith, is put upon them that (s)he will remember you when (s)he dies.

Dreamtimer
24th April 2015, 17:06
...Jump through the mirror into the universe... I really like that. I had an interesting dream not too long ago where a mirror was a window.

Aragorn
24th April 2015, 17:07
Since we are defining words, I would be curious Aragorn, what your definition for dimension vs the word density is. I freely admit never once having any thoughts regarding whether a particular dimension was a place or not.

Well, I prefer to maintain the scientific definition of what a dimension is, i.e. a vector in a coordinate system. So for instance, in a three-dimensional vector space, you've got three such dimensions: width, height and depth. But of course, the space-time continuum actually has four dimensions: width, height, depth and time, and in this manifold, the properties of the time dimension make it a bit different from the other three dimensions, in that we can physically freely roam about in those three other dimensions, while time only allows moving in one direction -- i.e. forward -- and that we are also constantly moving forward through time.

You can stay perfectly still in the spacial dimensions -- well, more or less, because in practice we are of course living on a planet which is zipping through space-time, and general relativity dictates that space-time itself does not have any absolute coordinates -- but you cannot halt your progression through time, or at least, not without circumventing general relativity. You can however change the progression of your own time in relation to the progression of time for everybody else around you, by moving out of the influence of Earth's gravity, and/or moving and/or accelerating so rapidly that there arises a time dilation effect. In general relativity, we call this "a frame of reference".

That is not to say that time travel does not exist, but rather that time travel involves hyper-dimensional physics, and the concept of time is also bound to one's individual perception -- or otherwise put, one's individual consciousness. We are all on the same time line here on Earth, but each and every individual entity also has their own individual time line, and their individual perception of the progression of time. So if you were to travel "back in time", then you are doing this in relation to the time line of Earth, not in relation to your own individual time line. As such, when you travel back to the past, your own time line keeps progressing forward.

As a practical example, say that you are wearing a watch which is perfectly synchronized with a wall clock in a room with a time machine. Say that you get into the time machine at exactly 10:00 in the morning, and that you set the controls in the time machine to travel back two hours in time, to 08:00. Now, say -- just for the sake of illustration -- that the trip to the past takes exactly two minutes. So, you press the button on the control panel inside the time machine, and after two minutes, you step out of the machine again. The wall clock will now show the local time to be 08:00, but when looking at your watch, you will see that it says "10:02".

Now, this becomes even more complicated when you engage the "grandfather paradox" situation. Say that you go back to the past, to the time before your grandfather meets your grandmother, and you kill your grandfather. According to accepted mainstream physics, that would be impossible, because by killing your grandfather, you are supposedly creating a situation where you would never be born, and as such in this theoretical model, you could never have gone back to the past to kill your grandfather. This is what mainstream science considers as solid evidence of how time travel would be impossible.

There is however a flaw in this theory, because it presumes that there would be only one time line. So in fact, what would really happen in this scenario is that by killing your grandfather (or otherwise preventing that you would be born), you would actually be branching off the time line and creating a new time line, in which your present tense is a moment in the past of the time line that you left from by way of your time machine, and the only thing that would be different on your original time line after you left for the trip to the past in which you sought to prevent your own birth, is that you would have stepped into a mysterious machine, only to never come out of it again. You would probably end up declared officially dead after a while. Maybe they'll give you a nice funeral service. :p

So even if you were to travel forward in time again after killing your grandfather, you would never be able to go back to the same space-time coordinates as from whence you left when you decided to travel to the past, because you would be traveling forward in time on the time line that you've created by killing your grandfather and thus, changing the course of history. So when traveling to the same space-time coordinates again as from whence you left, you will now find yourself in a wholly different reality. In addition to that, traveling to the future always means "traveling to a potential future", because "the future" is not written in stone due to the principles of Free Will -- i.e. what the future will condense into depends on the choices we all make, and not just our choices on an individual level.

From the dimensional point of view, you have thus not traveled back to the past, but you will in fact have created a whole new space-time manifold, and thus, a parallel reality, with the same four dimensions as before -- i.e. width, height, depth, and time -- but where things are significantly different because of the butterfly effect, i.e. the ripple you caused when you changed the course of history by killing the man who was to be your grandfather before he met the woman who was to be your grandmother. After all, that man signified a lot more to the world around him than the mere fact that he was to be your grandfather. He had a job, he may have had siblings, he probably would have had friends, et al. So his unexpected death will have changed the world around him to a certain extent. Also, the woman he was supposed to have married and who was supposed to then become your grandmother, will now be leading a different life. She may have married someone else and may now have children who would never have been born if she had married the man you killed. And those children will themselves probably also have gotten married and have children, etc.

And what this means from the point of view of consciousness, is that the very concept of what we call reality is subjective. You do, in fact, exist inside a reality bubble, and you yourself are at the center of it, because the whole of reality around you is only a projection by the mind in cooperation with your consciousness and the knowledge that you possess within your (so-called) higher self.

And that beautifully brings me back on topic for this thread, doesn't it? :) Am I a genius or what? :ha:

Dreamtimer
24th April 2015, 17:20
Nicely done, Aragorn. One of my favorite Yoda quotes is, "Difficult to see, the future is. Always changing." As always, physical time travel sounds like a bad idea to me. I'll stick with the ability to observe and prepare through dreams and other such ways.

Catsquotl
25th April 2015, 17:31
I am listening to a 46 hour discourse on the sattipathana sutta Joseph Goldstein did over the period of years.
Anyway today he was talking and read the following quote.


Consider a world without consciousness. The darkness is a bubbling cauldron of energy and vibrating matter, locked in the incessant dance of thermal agitation. Through shared electrons or the strange attraction of unlike charges, quivering molecules, not free to roam, absorb and emit their characteristic quantal packages
of energy with the surrounding fog. Free gas molecules, almost oblivious to gravity but buffeted in all directions by their neighbors, form swirling turbulent flows or march in zones of compression and expansion, according to the dictates of oscillating substrates. A massive solar flux and cosmic radiation from events long past crisscross space with their radiant energy and silently mix with the thermal glow of living creatures, whose hungry metabolic systems pour their infrared waste into the chaotic milieu.
But within the warmth of their sticky protein bodies, the dim glow of consciousness is emerging to impose its own brand of organization on this turbulent mix of energy /matter. The active filter of consciousness illuminates the darkness, discards all irrelevant radiation, and in a grand transmutation converts and amplifies the relevant.
Dead molecules erupt into flavors of bitterness or sweetness, electromagnetic frequencies burst with color, hapless air pressure waves become the laughter of children, and the impact of a passing molecule fills a conscious mind with the aroma of roses on a warm summer afternoon.
"Why We Feel" By Victor S. Johnston

It really struck a chord in me, I feel like i'm unable to clearly articulate what I sense is consciousness. Looking at definitions, explanations and such. This quote sums up my understanding almost perfectly. Whether that illuminating quality is present always and points at the experience or whether it is dependent on and arises with it is less of a concern to me than pointing out the illuminating quality it has.

I realize this quote is staying within the realm of 3d experience and senses. I have no doubt that same illumination can arise in otherworldly and other-dimensional experiences.

With Love
E.

curious soul
6th April 2016, 13:14
Thought I'd just jump on board this ''What is Consciousness'' thread in favour of not wanting to repeat same over. :)

So I'm wondering if consciousness is all there is. Then no one is conscious. Only consciousness is conscious. So this must mean that consciousness is actually unconscious. Therefore, any living thing cannot have a mechanism where which it can create a model of the world around it, like a brain, therefore brains are not conscious and are not the source of consciousness?

Any thoughts?

scibuster
6th April 2016, 13:28
What a shock if consciousness would be created into a machine (computer like machine) in 50 years or earlier.

Aragorn
6th April 2016, 13:44
What a shock if consciousness would be created into a machine (computer like machine) in 50 years or earlier.

I'm not so sure that would be possible. Many people fear artificial intelligence — and depending on what that artificial intelligence is used for and what power is entrusted to it, that fear may be justified — but what most people overlook is that artificial intelligence is not consciousness. It is merely a very cleverly devised computer algorithm which modifies its own code and thus "learns" how to make favorable decisions.

On the other hand, what I do think is possible, is that an artificial body could be created into which real consciousness — i.e. the primary creator consciousness of The Source Of All™ — could seed a soul, and that as such, a being could have been (co-)created which is conscious and which may have real emotions, but whose body is in fact artificial. And just as an anecdotal tidbit, I have included that scenario — or at least, one similar enough to that — in the preparation work for a science-fiction novel I had intended to write. ;)

curious soul
6th April 2016, 13:48
What a shock if consciousness would be created into a machine (computer like machine) in 50 years or earlier.

Can a machine know it's maker? I guess Art is natural, that which appears out of nothing, or from the imagination, same place, whereas the nature of 'I' is not natural like a machine perhaps?

Aragorn
6th April 2016, 13:59
Can a machine know it's maker? I guess Art is natural, that which appears out of nothing, or from the imagination, same place, whereas the nature of 'I' is not natural like a machine perhaps?

I'm afraid I don't really understand what you're saying here-above. The "I", the Self, is a Yin/Yang polarity, and therefore it is natural. A machine would only be able to approximate the concept of Self, but would not have the consciousness or even the mind to realize what that really means.

Artificial intelligence only performs statistical calculations. It does not actually know or experience. I've posted a thread not too long ago about how an artificial intelligence experiment by Microsoft went ludicrously wrong. You can read that article by clicking here (http://jandeane81.com/threads/8988-Microsoft-deletes-on-line-teen-girl-A-I-after-it-becomes-a-Neo-Nazi-sex-robot-with-daddy-issues-p).

curious soul
6th April 2016, 14:31
I'm afraid I don't really understand what you're saying here-above. The "I", the Self, is a Yin/Yang polarity, and therefore it is natural. A machine would only be able to approximate the concept of Self, but would not have the consciousness or even the mind to realize what that really means.

Artificial intelligence only performs statistical calculations. It does not actually know or experience. I've posted a thread not too long ago about how an artificial intelligence experiment by Microsoft went ludicrously wrong. You can read that article by clicking here (http://jandeane81.com/threads/8988-Microsoft-deletes-on-line-teen-girl-A-I-after-it-becomes-a-Neo-Nazi-sex-robot-with-daddy-issues-p).

Yeah, I meant the association with the personal 'I' as in I am this body, that's what I meant by unnatural. The body in my understanding would be the machine, but the Self or I with or without an object, object being a subjective thought, this I is natural, so yes I understand you, and thanks for making me think clearer.

I'm thinking thoughts are like a form of Art when manifest.
Like the thought of a tree, is consciousness in art form...appearing to itself as a tree, like an image of it's imagination.

And thanks for the AI link, will check that out for sure.

Dreamtimer
6th April 2016, 15:51
I just asked a question not much different from yours, curious soul, in the Sim Theory thread. http://jandeane81.com/threads/9014-Sim-Theory-We-May-Actually-Be-In-The-Matrix-(2016)

Chester
7th April 2016, 05:09
What a shock if consciousness would be created into a machine (computer like machine) in 50 years or earlier.

already happened...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinocchio

Cearna
7th April 2016, 08:59
Consciousness is the "Right to know" according to
The One God Above All - the Creator of the Second side of our sphere. The finest version of this is - to not know is to be unconscious, so, if you have been given the gift of being conscious, then is it not thought to be, that all are welcome to look and find answers to close to all knowing, and this is why you are here.

To get to one answer, you need to begin in open Life. You are here in open Life so you are on the quest to find what Truth is, but not known Truth, which can easily be seen to be verifiable, but what cannot be verified is what cannot be easily seen, felt or heard as real in your own self perception - such as Who Am I? Is there a God or many Gods? Is what we see and hear a real truth in the media and in books e.g. if it was in a newspaper or in a book, or as common knowledge, then it must be the Truth, no longer are we all believers in this, so we must search for a verifiable belief in what is shed as Truth. However, some things, I see as written, say as a thread on TOT, my own b/s meter or as my husband calls his "red alerts", leads me to sometimes ash my Soul, sometimes my Higher Self, sometimes my minders from the Above, Is that True, it doesn't feel right to me, and if not, what is the Truth in this situation? I, as a being of Life, have the right to ask, who is the best person Above to answer this in the most clear way for my understanding of this Truth.

Then, I, as a being who can hear the answers given to me, ask to whom am I speaking, I am told, then I receive the answer to the question I had just asked, and can continue to ask until I have an understanding as to the Truth about the statement I had read, which I questioned. It is the up to me to either accept this as a new Truth to my inner conscious Self, if I accept this, and my Soul sees this as something I now feel comfortable about then, it begins to add this new Truth to my Soul, over-writing if necessary, what I may have considered to be the Truth on that question before, in either this life or any other life. Then you have reached a new state on consciousness on that particular Truth, and that will be what you take on to the end of this life, or after this Life. However, if you read what was written as a Truth, and you do not consider it as a particular Truth, but just was skimmed over as having been read, and might be true or not, and came to no conclusion of your own, then that statement is knowledge seen, and can be stored by you to use as information later on, to be brought back and considered at will, and this is stored in the mind (not in the brain), where the mind is a separate part of the Soul, to be used by it when you are searching for some answer. The mind then functions like a computer, bringing back stored information, for you to use at will, it is then up to you to find your own means of coming to a conclusion or not. If you reach a conclusion then, this alone is stored as your consciousness, until added to or subtracted from at a later date, when the Soul will do this upon your conscious thought. So your mind is like a computer, which I suppose can be replicated by clever machinery, but your consciousness can not, it is entirely personal to each person, depending upon the amount of conscious beliefs you have put into your own Soul to use as your own. Thus your own conscious Truths can be altered over and over again, where as the real Truth is a constant. This real Truth can be set in stone, virtually when you finally reach the end of your days and are returned to your own Home place Above.

sandy
8th April 2016, 04:02
What a great opine at explaning the unexplainable Cearna!! :ok::smiley hug:

Cearna
8th April 2016, 04:43
What a great opine at explaining the unexplainable Cearna!! :ok::smiley hug:

Thanks, Sandy, got a tonne of these sitting in my own mind/soul, having asked for the unexplainable some time ago, and answered it several times on TOT to find no one reads or bothers to answer, so, I often just do the same, however, I know that some one like you is around just as often and does read it, so I keep going, but it gets hard when no one else bothers to respond - doesn't any one else ever feel their way into the topics on hand, as I know you do? Love to you as always Colleen

Aragorn
8th April 2016, 05:05
Thanks, Sandy, got a tonne of these sitting in my own mind/soul, having asked for the unexplainable some time ago, and answered it several times on TOT to find no one reads or bothers to answer, so, I often just do the same, however, I know that some one like you is around just as often and does read it, so I keep going, but it gets hard when no one else bothers to respond - doesn't any one else ever feel their way into the topics on hand, as I know you do? Love to you as always Colleen

I too have begun noticing what appears to be a wave of apathy among our members, Cearna. There are members who connect to The One Truth and then only focus on one or two specific threads — usually the ones of a more "spectacular" and/or controversial nature, or threads that they have started themselves — and they either don't look at any of the rest of the material, or if they do, then they don't seem to be able to muster the will to read it, let alone move their mouse pointer over to the "Thanks" button and click it.

Speaking as a member of The One Truth and not as an administrator now, I personally find that inappreciative of the effort any particular person has poured into putting a well-written post or thread together, and I also find that it is totally out of character for a demographic that supposedly wants a better world for us all, not to mention that some of them like profiling themselves as enlightened and/or intellectual. Well, granted, that is something you more often see people doing over at other forums — that was certainly one of the experiences I had with the people back over at Project Avalon when I was still a member there — but some of those people are or may also be registered here at The One Truth, or at Eye-Rise, Imaginative Worlds, The Mists Of Avalon, or whatever else is out there.

I'm not sure on the how and the why, but concretely here at The One Truth, it seems to be coinciding with the lull mentioned by Aianawa in his thread here (http://jandeane81.com/threads/8869-Lull).


:hmm: :scrhd: :confused: :flag:

curious soul
8th April 2016, 10:35
Consciousness is the "Right to know"

Loved reading your essay Cearna thanks. It resonated with this one. :tiphat: