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Aianawa
9th April 2015, 10:06
Just come across this and although I have heard this before, would love to hear others points of view >



What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.

Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. Thats all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.

Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.

Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. Its very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. Thats all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. Thats all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. Its very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.

Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. Its been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? Its not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.

Then the self, the sense of separation. Thats again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinatingslightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You dont exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.

Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that youre wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? Its not at all your dress.

Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened youre out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think youre moving your arm by your control. Its not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. Its only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

Now the problem is youre identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence youre having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem

Jano
9th April 2015, 13:27
Hi Aianawa, very interesting, may you share your reference on this!

Maunagarjana
9th April 2015, 13:49
Yes, you are not your thoughts, not your emotions, not your body, not your personality, and not even your mind. You are experiencing these things and identifying with them, but they do not define you. You exist beyond them all. You *have* those things. But to say you *have them* is to suggest that you are *not them*. So, who has these things? Who is the owner and operator of this confounded mind?

jonsnow
9th April 2015, 16:20
You are your taughts

The body is just a shell to house your conscious if you improve your taughts you change your life there is more secret knowledge

Catsquotl
9th April 2015, 17:53
reading the abidhamma as we speak.
will get back once understanding has set in.

seems we are just life experiencing itself due to dependend arisings of conditions.

With Love
Eelco

Maunagarjana
9th April 2015, 18:02
You are your taughts

The body is just a shell to house your conscious if you improve your taughts you change your life there is more secret knowledge

While there is truth in what you say about how improving your thoughts can change your life, it does not mean you are them. It's more like you are the intent behind your thoughts. But that intent is coming from something beyond your seemingly individuated mind. The thoughts themselves, they are no more you than the books on your shelf or the money in your pocket. The best way I can think to illustrate it is to put it in the context of reincarnation.

Think of all your past lives, and all the people that you were, and all the thoughts those people had. People that were in some cases, perhaps, very different from you. Would you say that those thoughts in those other incarnations represent who you are now? And does who you are now really represent who you are ultimately? We may actually be dancing thoughts, but they are not our thoughts, meaning the thoughts that pop in and out of our heads. We are the thoughts of an infinite intelligence that is the source of all being. And all of those thoughts that make up our being can be traced back to one original thought.

Catsquotl
9th April 2015, 19:36
As some may know I have sort of drifted towards Theravadan buddhism over the last few years.
From that point of view there are six sense objects that link to six sense-conscousness states.

Eye - eye-consciousness or seeing.
Ear - ear-consciousness or hearing.
Nose - nose-consciousness or smelling
Tongue - tongue consciousness or tasting
Skin - skin-consciousness or touching
Mind - mind-consciousness or Thinking.

Seen in this way a thought is nothing more that a view.
Somehow we find it easy to see that a view is not self.
But as we misunderstand what thoughts are we tend to think we are the thoughts mind and mind-consciousness let us experience. When in fact there is supposedly no difference between that process and the process of seeing or hearing.

These 6 sense bases or sense sphere's are all that make up our reality. they are the source of everything we experience. A sight, sound or other sense object is usually if not always the root of the dichotomy that follows. a smell, hmm nice or ieuw awful or maybe neutral. from which arise feelings of joy, disgust or neutrality towards it. etc etc etc..

Nothing there to define a root self to whome it is experiencing. not even a root or original thought. Just states of mind. Arising and passing away....

With Love
Eelco

jonsnow
9th April 2015, 19:41
All you carry is your experiences memory's you arrive and leave naked. beyond that maunagarjana I do not understand

only the now exists we are here to experience things learn by doing


If you have successful taught you will be successful well yes but taught are not enough you have to live the experience before you experience it and the stronger the experience the better how strong very taste , smell , see , hear , touch watch what happens

Why

Okay right there are blind spots in your vision ( in everyone ) the mind fills in the spots by making things up . Mind cannot tell what is real or not so if you change your experience you change you .

feeling good does not change things or doing the most fun thing you can imagine what a crook channel are ................ ............ ..............

create what you wish do not beg or ask

Angelrising
9th April 2015, 20:06
1169I

f this was the only thing I ever read on TOT, it would have been time well spent. This is some of the most profound wisdom in its simplicity, yet so easy to blow past because it does not seem "exciting!"

I may have something to add later that speaks to the topic, but I just wanted to thank you all for your contributions to this topic. It has illuminated so much within me that I have intuitively understood but hadn't a framework with which to further integrate it.

Many thanks!!!!

Maunagarjana
9th April 2015, 20:36
I try not to be too attached to any conceptual views, including even Buddhist dogma. There is always more to learn.

I try to keep this in mind from the Simsapa Sutta:


Once the Blessed One was staying at Kosambi in the Simsapa forest. Then, picking up a few Simsapa leaves with his hand, he asked the monks, “What do you think, monks: Which are more numerous, the few Simsapa leaves in my hand or those overhead in the Simsapa forest?”

“The leaves in the hand of the Blessed One are few in number, lord. Those overhead in the forest are far more numerous.”

“In the same way, monks, those things that I have known with direct knowledge but have not taught are far more numerous than what I have taught. And why haven’t I taught them? Because they are not connected with the goal, do not relate to the rudiments of the holy life, and do not lead to disenchantment, to dispassion, to cessation, to calm, to direct knowledge, to self-awakening, to Unbinding. That is why I have not taught them.

The Buddha had a very specific goal for his teachings. But he knew a lot more than what he said.

Altaira
9th April 2015, 20:46
How about we are not our thoughts as Maunagarjana but also I propose we are not here to learn or experience.
We might be here for another reason but because we have been detached from our true self for such a long time we are finding it difficult to remember why we came in the first place. At least I feel this way. I feel I don't know what is the real reason for being here. I know experiencing is not my purpose. For example what is the point to experience pain or sorrow or lost so many times in so many incarnations? I know it is always different experience, yes but it is still a pain. I don't like the idea to be born in a body without remembering anything for the purpose to experience pain again as somebody else. This explanation doesn't satisfy me. And I used pain just as an example. But I still search for answers and I know there is something completely different from the official rumors so to say.

Catsquotl
9th April 2015, 20:50
Nice one....

I have been a searcher for the bigger part of my life. An avid reader and thinker...
Somehow I still think I need input in the form of some conceptual framework to compare my experiences with...
In my experience if I don't I stall, and get into all manners of unwholesome states if you will.

Having been let down by this or that framework I have yet to be let down by the teachings of the Buddha.
I want to believe the promise of the teaching as bringing "freedom from suffering".
So far the stories of modern day arahats that did the work so to speak, all say it was a practice worth while..
So thats what I'll be doing for a while...

That said, nothing more impermanent than this human being so.....

With Love
Eelco

gardener
9th April 2015, 21:03
Aianawa thank you for this information its very ( I was going to say thought provoking) so I just have to say I really have to chew it over and over may I say I found this to be one of the most interesting post's, do you have any more information of a similar nature? if you do I would love to hear more again thank you.

Catsquotl
9th April 2015, 21:07
Maybe Altaira we are here for no reason at all.
We don't need to experience anything, we just do.
Experience just happens. The freedom I'm talking about, enlightenment or nirvana/nibanna is not a prize at the end of it all. It is not THE goal.

If I understand it correctly enlightenment is nothing more that a clear and whole(istic) understanding of what the nature of reality shows us, from moment to moment.

Disengaging from the belief that there is an I or a Self that experiences it all or even needs to go through it to reach something is helpful (so i'm told) to get a clearer view of reality. Just that.

In order to get a clear view, don't identify with it.
I have also come to understand that even enlightened ones still have to do the laundry. Help raise the kids and all that.
Even stressful states arise in them, but by not identifying that stressful state one is able to cary on without suffering from it.
again this is my meager understanding of it now.

With Love
Eelco

jonsnow
9th April 2015, 21:53
Altaira there is no detached from your true self this is not possible you will live the experience until you had enough might be 1000 life times from now or 1 or never only you decide there is no judge only you . if your true self left you would die I think I not sure it is not a topic I ever taught of

When you change your taught action your experience will change and only then act according is the secret how would your ideal self act think behave eat care socialise (feel is the most important )

you can design your body or any part of your life

Hermit
9th April 2015, 21:58
This reminds me of John Searle. Anyone read/heard him?

He's an intersting prof!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_OPQgPIdKg

Buy a pint to the first person who can tell me where he goes wrong and why. ;)

gardener
9th April 2015, 22:35
Brilliant Milneman thank you.

Mark
9th April 2015, 22:41
I wrote a response once to a similar thread and my "thoughts" were after the quoted statement below:

"There are many players in this, it is so multi faceted, the universe is a very complex place, but dichotomy of our predicament teaches us we are but one."

In an interesting example of this, six months ago a gifted friend of mine completely out of the blue asked if I was writing a book and why had I stopped? I was shocked as only my wife and Ben knew, and in fairness after a short while i gave up on it.

My friend then proceeded to tell me my late grandfather was "encouraging" me to write this book and had been "giving" me thoughts and ideas, and wished me to continue!!!

He lived in Canada for most of his life surrounded by trees. I utterly adore the outside and trees, and have done all of my life. Now I am thinking (at least I hope it's the construct I consider that is me), is it my choice or my grandfather's? What else are his thoughts and likes and dislikes. As it turns out he has been my guide and my friend has him pay her a visit every so often. To what extent should a guide guide? Like a parent he has and is imprinting me, conditioning me unaware, even though it may be in my best interest, where is my freewill?

Of course, I could close down and allow the silence to take over, but in the void I create, God will fill, and God's voice/presence will dominate and free will as an individual aspect is lost once more.

Situations as they unfold prompt us to think, but these situations are preordained, time is an illusion. Dejavu, precognitive dreams and remote viewing are some of the tools at our disposal to prove that every situation has already happened, so that implies every conceivable thought in response to that situation has been made by ourselves. It is like we decide to choose a thought from the infinite preordained thoughts to create a unique future and every second a separate timeline and combination is followed no matter how slight and seemingly insignificant the disparity between them.

Point is, without the illusion of unique thought, creation from the creators perspective would be utterly pointless, but don't think too hard on it, that's already been done :-)



Also as a sidenote to the above, the two central characters walked up to me smiling during a meditation I had at least a year previously to having the idea of writing the book. Then I had the realisation I was supposed to create the world fir these characters to live in as if their existence rested on my imagination. Are they part of me? Have they come from the future to ensure their creation and immortality within written pages? Are they from my grandfather's imagination? I'm unsure all I know is I'm having immense fun and LOVE their world and potentials.

Stranger than fiction lol.

Catsquotl
10th April 2015, 04:56
This reminds me of John Searle. Anyone read/heard him?

He's an intersting prof!

Buy a pint to the first person who can tell me where he goes wrong and why. ;)

At 8.48 he states consciousness has to be experienced by some kind of self..
I guess we can argue about the existence of that self. Also his definition of consciousness as I hear it is a rather unified whole from the moment we wake up, to the moment we fall asleep or unconscious. Which implies a continuity of consciousness where in my mind it is newly arising from moment to moments.

On a few moments he seems to say that thought == consciousness. instead of a consciousness that is aware of experiencing thought. I really think there is a difference there, that could set one on a illusionary train of though if one identifies consciousness as self.

just a few thoughts....

With Love
Eelco

Aianawa
10th April 2015, 05:41
Interesting points of view indeed, thank you. The words were from a dasa/teacher at the Oneness Univercity in India. I first heard them about 6 years ago from their main teachers Ammabhagavan, found the words and message most annoying at the time but meditated getting the best perspective for myself at that time as I could, nowadays I feel the obviousness of message and meaning even as I still involve it fully. The words around Your Mind Is Not Your Mind are still challenging for me though, this I feel being due to working with the collective mind/noosphere through Arguelles material and Ho opono pono material/experiencing But I am getting there. From memory there is even more than what was in topic post, will look into it, once again ta for your thoughts lol

Aianawa
10th April 2015, 07:30
This vid explains the Mind is not your mind part well imo > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTbAmBilAmw

Aianawa
10th April 2015, 07:33
Lol the part when he says there is no ultimate truth may also mean the one truth lol

Aianawa
11th April 2015, 07:31
@ Gardaner, the India Univercity sorta closed at end of 2014, always said they would, they were very or totally about the 2012-13 transmission and I remember watch one of their vids made about 13 to 15 years ago where they said they would more or less fold up come the end of 2014, they still do Eye Deeksha/blessings online for free and have people all over the world from China to here in ChCh New Zealand doing the Chambers process, also free.

Aianawa
11th April 2015, 07:34
Would add also that there was/is about 100 million oneness blessers world wide that fullt engaged as such in the dec21st 2012 day/ritual, they were probably the largest community involved - not sure though

Cearna
11th April 2015, 09:50
I propose the end is not to get to know or to Be and Do, or to Think on the role of an empty vessel to be filled in at some time with Enlightenment.

You are one of a kind. You are solid in body, which is unique in itself, because there are none others in existence with our strange anatomical surface area, not because all of us came from the same mind, but this is the heavy planet and is unique in that. The make up took over several trillion years to become one atomically more able to live in rich Life. You may see it as the more set in place structure that has been here since time began and gradually developed into what we are now.

What yourself entered into, is the beginning and end of what you are. Life enters to a being-ness of each some need of each individual. You are mighty to some, to others guests on their home land. You are not the most peculiar, nor the most penitent, nor any other thing. what you are is a being of something known as sentiency. You are not to clear your so called link to God, nor to solve who some one else is, you are Celtic, or Australian or wherever you were born - this is not stupid, because on Earth, each section of a Tectonic Plate, is something in your need, before you came, that was really important to you. In the last evolution of TOT I had written about each of these Tectonic plated and how they related to specific needs of development. I can easily place them up again if you so wish.

Eminent to your needs, is the first of all links to what this is to shed Light to you, on this work of the Wheel of Life. You will be especially linked to specific traits in behaviour, and you are so linked because is not your only lifetime. As you are progressively learning a specific deal is made within you own Soul and Spirit to seek for your work on this Lifetime only. This is very important, because another deal at your beginning time to follow a set stage of development. This is called your Storybook. You are then really what you've searched for and found of life, which is called by the Gods, "Life in the Raw". Words cannot write the Empathic journey, you have been on so far, so, in effect, your own Storybook, is the better stories of your own dealings in life. Every lifetime you seek for Soul Development, is recorded on your Life in the Raw Storybook, but your experiences become more than this, so your are not the writer of your journey, your Soul becomes the memory of all links that heal or harm you in each life, and you record all memories pursuant to some very special finding of Soul Development -good and bad, not in your mind, but in your body. If your Soul becomes ill at ease over some intent to go against your Soul needs, then it will stop life in that particular mind/body/Spirit/Soul action you are taking part in hence illness or dis-ease. You are not then in balance with your own real needs and if you continue along the Pathway against the solution your Soul needs you to find, you will head to a Mac truck event. Or in realisation of your own running away from your Seekers needs you are saluting only the rustification of an endless life heading nowhere.

WHO R U then, you are investigating topics of soul Development within an experiential life in a physical body - however, the thought and actions you decide upon will only jab at you like a vaccination. If you are following your own particular flow of life your systematic need to accomplish your inner needs will glow an Light your way, if you are already out of sync with your needs and direction, you may in fact get a horrible reaction, and find you are solif fat and not lean and trim - or- you've lost the plot and need to clear immense rigidity to a new purpose of independent links to your soul. What thought have to do with it - you are either Fears and thus incapable of reaching a better link to Soul :fpalm: or you are open enough to somehow think in the round holes and not the square pegs placed before you. :tiphat:

If you get immensely angry or frustrated, means no solution will come to you, for life began in round holes, not square holes, till living in your life with square pegs told you, you'd been missing the intelligent answer to the intelligent question. :scrhd: or this :eyebrows:

Aianawa
11th April 2015, 22:18
Hi Cearna , in the vid above, it is talked about ( thought/s ) as a river that will flow through our minds whether awakened/enlightened or not, the ancient human mind is just there to the awakened one that has had the neurobiological click as such, where as the unawakened one chases the thoughts in the river

Hermit
11th April 2015, 22:19
Bingo.

Basically? He's doing the same thing Descartes does, just in a different way.

What I love the most about philosophers, and hate, is the lack (it seems) of ability to simply say, I don't know how it works! ;)

Great observations Eelco!

Aianawa
12th April 2015, 00:29
Mmmmm so does one disregard the philosophers that give their simple answer/perception ?

Cearna
12th April 2015, 07:20
Hi Cearna , in the vid above, it is talked about ( thought/s ) as a river that will flow through our minds whether awakened/enlightened or not, the ancient human mind is just there to the awakened one that has had the neurobiological click as such, where as the unawakened one chases the thoughts in the river

Sorry I can't watch videos, so cannot expound on anything in them.

However, in my need to explain, it was not in answer to thought being who we are, as who we are is what I wrote about, with the effect that thought have upon that. Mind is only one part of what we are made of - it cannot spell nor think of anything in a role, or a Pathway, or a place you have been, or even an experience you have had, for the mind is only the container in which to place information. It does not disseminate nor deliniate, nor place best intentions before you, or show images to you of all that ancient human mind, of which you speak. It matters not to your mind about anything at all, it simply holds information, till yourself decides to empty this or that out of it and leave room to fill the cup up again.

I will give you an example of how it works from my own life - I cannot explain from anyone else, I have not ever lived in your moccassins.

I was asked from Above, would I wish to take on a particular role in life. I knew of what the role was from my experience in life, but how you began to do what was being asked, I had no idea at all, how do you know what is required for any specific role? No one Above, gave me any clues on this, because none of them had ever been in this role either. I began to think - I'm a triple Aries, what Aries do is think. I began to think along the lines of what others had been telling me, and what I had observed. I had been a High School teacher for thirty years, not a mother but had plenty of opportunity to worry over and observe others, not so much live my own life at that stage. The first thing that came to my mind, was how do we begin to live as one in harmony and leaving others in need to heal and grow.

Having postulated the framing of a question, then I began finding thoughts coming to me along these lines. Was this part of the original question - did I want to be in a particular role? I had no idea, but thought came to me clearly. Never worrying over where they came from, I thought on those lines. One at a time thoughts came to me, as I appeared to have covered each one to some completion of a thought, my Higher Self, would say ditto, followed by many other dittos in the background. At the end of the first thought I heard that is now one. After each one, a round of dittos from the Spirits who were intrigued by this whole idea and then the next number until I finally reached 100. No comments, no debates just the next number was reached. At the end of the 100 I was told you are now to have that role, please return to soul and thank it for displaying thought to me. These were from my mind, from when I first began on the journey of Life and throughout all lives I had ever had.

Some of those from Above in Roles, were listening to me, and were openly discussing the need to give these thoughts to others who live openly in life as we do. They began to solve what the rest of us were needing in our own lives, and as well as giving me the role, they asked me to join the ranks of the teachers who ask life questions, and make life emptiness disappear. Many people on Earth really wish to learn true spiritual growth and at some time call out to be taught, from real teachers who know what to teach. Those who do this, are given permission to go to what I call the Spiritual School in the Sky. There is also a hospital in the sky for those who call out in need of healing from a terriible dis-ease. The people who go to these, do in their sleep, and the teachers or Healers go in their sleep to do their work of helping others - I know because I go as a teacher and as a healer to each of these places.

Now getting to the point, the process that took place was, that, I gave the question out because I did not know what was required, my answer did not come from any proverbial stram of thought from somewhere else or someone else, it was my own Soul who answered me. What it does, is to search through all those memories I mentioned being within my body, when it finds something that answers the question, it presents that to me, I do not see images, so it came as thought, which my own self could then begin to think on and come to the fullness of what it meant to me now. Thoughts having been given to me in this way once, are not shown to me again, it is up to me to listen to my Soul and then take action. Once i realise what it is that I come up with, then if my Soul is satisfied with that answer, the thought is no longer stored in my body, it becomes an established part of my own soul Development and thus is now stored in my Soul forever. If I add to this at a later date, the Soul then adds this new work to the one stored in the Soul as a more extended answer to that question. should I need that information,at another time to answer another question, the Soul will give it to me as what direction is the best to follow for the immediate question.

The awareness or non-awareness comes from first of all do you have a Soul or not, many on Earth do not, but that is another story to dwell upon, or were you unaware that with each experience your Soul wishes you to look upon it, come to some conclusions or not, think about how it came about, that sort of thing - you know the kind of answers you get from hindsight. If you did, it can either store it in the boy or store it in the soul itself depending on how far you get with your hindsight. If you don't look into it with what the soul is asking you to look, then you repeat the experience until you get the message.

Now what goes on with you to the next part of the journey is the Story book, Soul, Spirit, and whatever talents you learnt along the way, occult experiences seldom go on with you. When you return to Home every one there is waiting to find out what you found on your journey, it means a lot to them as well. Does this help, I'm happy to explain more.:love: :smiley hug:

Aianawa
12th April 2015, 07:50
Mmmm yes the mind is indeed memory, I am still digesting your post atm

Catsquotl
12th April 2015, 10:30
Mmmm yes the mind is indeed memory, I am still digesting your post atm

Amongst other things. In the abhidhamma and the sattipatana sutta the ability to remember is but one of the functions or uses of consciousness.
There are more. I realize I am calling the mind consciousness now, which may not be entirely the same, but for this purpose i guess it's close enough.

It seems that buddhists have several ways to talk about the nature of consciousness. Several ways of defining them that is. as soon as I can sum them up in my own words i'll put them in the consciousness thread..

With Love
Eelco

Aianawa
12th April 2015, 11:11
Mmmm the work of Rupert Sheldrake around the brain not being the mind ( he along with Hancock were banned from Tedtalk ), leads me to see the mind as separate from consciousness or maybe a component of. Will feel into what you have said again

Hermit
12th April 2015, 22:33
Mmmmm so does one disregard the philosophers that give their simple answer/perception ?

It depends on the explanation. And very rarely it seems is that ever simple. ;)

Cearna: Meditations on First Philosophy by Rene Descartes. It's a small book, fairly inexpensive, and probably available on the net for free. However, if you'd prefer a hard copy, pm me your address and I'll mail you mine. :)

Aianawa
13th April 2015, 05:55
The short vid on page two appears very simple in it's explanation imo basically seeing/being to then living

Aianawa
14th April 2015, 05:02
Here we go, was looking for the full context of > your thoughts are not your thoughts < and came across this >>>



The DVD player is there, the wire is there, the power is there. Everything is there. What is missing in this? The DVD player is the mind, it is there. Then the DVD, whatever it contains, is shown on the television. So the teachings that will be given to you would become your realization. Now as I'm giving the teaching if you listen very carefully, and there is a sadhana [spiritual practice] which should upload it into the DVD player.



If it is done correctly when you put on the switch it's all over. Maybe today, itself, you can become awakened. Today itself, in this very hall you can become awakened.



People are becoming awakened everyday now. Are you ready to be enlightened today itself? So therefore you will listen very carefully to the DVD of the teaching. So you are getting it into the DVD now and then you go on to uploading.



The first teaching: Your thoughts are not your thoughts. The second teaching: Your mind is not your mind. The third: Your body is not your body; and the fourth: Your self is only a concept. We will go to the fifth later.



If you listen and understand correctly, then we will be able to upload the DVD. Otherwise, no. Please remember that your thoughts have evolved over millennia, for thousands of years your thoughts have evolved. They are not your thoughts. They are very, very complex and they have evolved over millennia.



Whatever thought you have got now, it has been there with your ancestors and their ancestors. No single thought is new. Your brain is only a reprocessing machine. For example, it takes an idea and goes on reprocessing it. It takes many ideas and keeps reprocessing them, different permutations, different combinations.



The brain itself does not create anything new. It picks up and does the reprocessing. These are very, very old. All thoughts, even so called modern thought is very, very old. It is just being recycled by your brain.



Now if you look at medieval man, his thoughts too are similar. If you look at ancient man, his thoughts too are similar. Your thoughts are just there, like in the thought sphere.



It comes in by what we can the ajna chakra [third eye] and goes out through what we call the bindu [back of the head]. That's all. Receiving and transmitting. Receiving, processing and transmitting. That is what is going on.



It's the same atmosphere. It has been recycled for millennia. All the animals, they share the same atmosphere. The plants share. So you take in oxygen and give out carbon dioxide. Plants take in carbon dioxide and give out oxygen. So it goes from your mouth to somebody. He picks up that air. It goes to some ants, an elephant,and it comes out of an elephant then it goes to a plant.



So the whole thing is being recycled-the atmosphere. Similarly, there is a thought sphere. Thoughts are continuously being recycled. The reprocessing machine is the human brain. We are actually a collective organism.



Your thoughts are not, therefore, your thoughts. I'll come back to it later. You mind. Your mind is not your mind at all. This mind also is very, very ancient and there is only one mind.



Every mind at its center has fear. The core of every mind is fear. Whoever you are-you may be the bravest man on the planet or the worst coward-but still there is fear at the center of the mind. There is no change at all.



All minds move from the past through the present into the future, all minds. All minds are trying to become. Everybody's mind is trying to become. Every mind has comparison, has jealousy, envy, anger, and lust. Everything is there in everybody's mind.



So there is only one mind. It's not that you have a different mind or somebody else has got a different mind. You cannot say this is my TB or her TB or his TB. It is TB, tuberculosis, that's all. Similarly, the mind is a disease. Everybody is diseased with the mind and it's the same thing.



It's not different at all, and ancient man also had the same mind. He had the same mind. There is no change with regard to the mind. It is the same.



Some sounds come out. He will not try to get out of that. Any sense, like smell, any sense, it comes and goes, it comes and goes. He is just experiencing. Nothing is his. He does not identify.



If he says, "These are my thoughts", then we say it is called aham-ākhyam, false identification. Why? Because of prajnaparadha, failure of intelligence. Now, with intelligence awakened he will see he is not that. It is just there, that's all.



Now how is he going to see his mind? Let us say he has a business mind. His mind will continue to do business the way he is doing business. But now he will see that the mind is doing business. Not that he is doing business. He'll watch his own mind doing business. The only thing is it'll do business much more efficiently now than before.



Because when you identify, you mess up things. When you don't identify it's a beautiful machine, the mind works on its own. It's naturally doing business. So he will see his own mind functioning.



In his speech, he'll be talking. He will see his mouth is moving, sounds are coming. It's all being controlled by the mind. But he is not the mind. He will see speech is automatically happening, without his getting involved in any way. It's a real marvel. It's so beautifully happening and he will see it happening.



In body movements, let us say he has to repair his car or repair a machine. Whatever mechanical things he does or whatever he can do, the body does it; let's say playing tennis, everything-very, very beautifully. He will not feel that he is doing things. Everything is happening automatically. The body is functioning.



So you see thoughts are going automatically, mind is functioning automatically, speech is happening automatically. All the systems are happening automatically. The body is functioning automatically. In fact, everything is automatic.



Now for example you may wonder about this. You might be saying, "I decided to move my hand". But today science is so evolved that we can watch the brain in real time and moments before you have moved your hand, the brain has decided to move your hand and just before you move, it gives the illusion that you have decided to move the hand. Actually, you have no role at all because you are not there.



The truth is you are not there. Your thinking that you are there is an illusion. Thinking is happening. There is no thinker who is thinking. It's an illusion. There is no thinker called Deepak who is thinking. There is only thinking. Just like if you draw a circle a center comes into existence. Thinking creates the illusion of a thinker.



There is nobody there. Just thinking is going on. So everything is automatic. That is the whole beauty of life. So that becomes the fifth teaching, all things are automatic.



So once again, your thoughts are not your thoughts, your mind is not your mind, your body is not your body, your self is only a concept. That is, you don't really exist. All things are automatic.



That is how an awakened being, an enlightened being sees. All things are automatic. He is just merely witnessing and experiencing, that's all. He does not identify.



The fifth teaching: let us take Deepak again, as an example; he's unawakened, unenlightened, he's standing on some big road. Then there goes a bus and he says, "that bus is a red bus", he gives commentary.



Then goes Miss World. He sees Miss World and Miss World has gone away. Two hours since Miss World went away, still Deepak is thinking of Miss World. "Shall I follow her?" "Shall I stop her vehicle?" "Shall I find where she is?" He is following her in his thoughts.



Let us say Deepak is awakened. It's the same road where Miss World is going. He sees Miss World. There is a moment of excitement and Miss World moves away, and that's all. It is forgotten. Next, there is a donkey-equal attention to the donkey. The donkey passes by. Next comes a camel-same attention. Then comes a leopard-the same attention.



He did not follow them in thought because he has stopped naming them. He will not call her Miss World or donkey. Miss World or donkeys are the same. It's an experience of Miss World or another experience, a donkey-equally nice the experience will be, that's all. That's the whole beauty about it, experience or to experience. No identification, no follow through-particularly that. It's all over.



So we will quickly realize, your thoughts are not your thoughts, your mind is not your mind, your body is not your body, all things are automatic. Everything is automatic.



Just like breathing is automatic. Body temperature is automatic. Digestive system is automatic. Circulation is automatic. Thinking is automatic. Speech is automatic. Body actions are automatic. It's the same thing except that you have an illusion.



Your self is a concept. That's the fourth teaching. That is you don't exist there at all. The fifth is all things are automatic. The next thing is you must have passion to become awakened. Do you have the passion to become awakened? How many of you want to become awakened? That's very good.



What you must realize is all of you are in jail. That you must understand very clearly. What is the jail called? The mind. You are in a jail called the mind. Why? Because you cannot experience anything. Just like a man in jail. Can he experience the outside world? Nothing. He can't experience. He can't breathe the fresh air outside, he can't see the light outside. Nothing. That is your condition.



For example, you cannot experience a glass of water. You are thinking. The moment you start drinking you say, "I'm thirsty" or you say, "this is mineral water", or a "Coca-Cola", or whatever. Some remark you'll pass on that.



Or, you'll think of the cricket commentary and what's happening at the IPL match, or what happened at the office. Something will go on. Your mind will not allow you to experience that glass of water. Let's say your morning break with your chapattis, bread or whatever you eat, you're not enjoying it. You can't experience it because the mind will not allow you.



You look at your wife's face. You can't experience your wife. All the images come rushing in. The thoughts come in. The mind comes in. She's already old. Probably she's old because thoughts have come in, that freshness has gone. The experience is gone. You cannot experience your wife, you get soon bored, you start looking at other women or this or that, and visa versa, the same thing.



You can't look at your own children, except through the mind. You can't see the beauty of your children. Everything is destroyed. When you go to the roads, such lovely people are going. People are so beautiful, trees, cars-nothing you can experience. The mind will not allow you. So there is nothing you can actually experience because of your mind.



Once upon a time you could experience, when you were little children. You've lost it. Now it's gone. You're prisoners of the mind, and the mind I told you, is nothing but the past. The mind is a flow of thought. Thought is of yesterday. It is a memory, it is death. It has no life, it has no living quality.



Life is something just living. It is the presence. It is the present. Thought cannot touch it. Thought is measurement. It measures things. The presence or the present is immeasurable. It cannot be measured. Thought can nowhere go near it, and therefore you are missing that in your life.



That is what is living and therefore you are dead people. I'm actually addressing dead people who think they are living. No, not at all. Maybe if you become awakened this evening you are going to know what it is to live.



So you must realize you are prisoners, that you cannot experience anything. What you call experience is altered experience. It has nothing to do with what I call experiencing. So you are in prison.



What is your life? It's a mediocre, meaningless, purposeless life-artificial meaning, artificial purpose. The same mechanical life, everyday the same routine of getting up and all those things you do in the morning with the breakfast-maybe some slight changes with the breakfast, then going to the office or the university, or this or that. Some friends chatting and then TV, cell phones, newspapers-the same rubbish goes on and on and on.



Then finally some quarrel, some fight or some worry, worrying about the past or the future and trying to go to bed, not able to sleep, then nightmares and then get up. Then you get diabetes, heart problems, arthritis. All the things happen and then finally you die like a cockroach.



The same problems keep repeating, first for you, then for your children, then for your grandchildren. You keep coping with it and then one day you just breathe your last. You may have a stroke or something happens and you're gone. So life is so mediocre, so mediocre and you're living all the time in prison.



What is this life? Because you have no meaning, you ask questions like: Is there a God? If there is a God, who created God? If there is no God, how did this universe come into existence? What is the purpose of life? What is the meaning of life? So many fundamental questions and so many books and so many answers.



Now this jail has got two locks, one inside, one outside. Once you develop the passion to get out of the jail, knowing it is the jail and life is mediocre, the inner lock opens up. Who would open the outer lock? Yes, we'll come with two guns and blast that lock, open the doors and pull you out.



For the first time you'll come out of the mind. Then for the first time you'll know what it is to breathe, what it is to eat, to drink, what it is to look at your wife, your children, your parents, your house, your car.



Everything will look very, very different. For the first time you will know what it is to live because the mind is gone. With the mind gone, you are gone. Deepak is gone. It's all over for Deepak with Deepak gone. Deepak is the questioner who was questioning, is there God? What is the purpose of life? With the questioner Deepak gone, questions are also gone.



With questions gone, all the answers are gone. All the answers are a huge amount of waste. They mean nothing. You have carried that burden on your head.



So this mind, which is a donkey that is what you are carrying on your shoulders. When I look at you what do I see? I see a huge donkey, a complex donkey which you are carrying on your shoulders and the donkey's big head is resting on your small head and you're walking like that.



How pitiable your condition is and the greater pity is you do not even know your condition is pitiable. That's your life. You're carrying a donkey. So when you get awakened you'll put down the donkey and with that you'll bundle up all the questions and the answers, all that you have read and put it out. It's gone because now he is living.



If you are drinking a mango juice would you ask, "How does it taste?" If you are living would you ask questions like: "What is life, purpose of life, meaning of life?" "What is God? Who is God?" All things are God. You are living and when you are living it's all over. You are only witnessing life. It is all happening automatically.



Everything is beautiful. You can play tennis very beautifully. You can do all the activities. Everything is the same. Your job is the same. Your business is the same. The house is the same. The wife is the same. The children are the same, but they all look different because the mind is no more interfering.



You are in paradise, exactly in paradise. So now, who are you then? Who is Deepak who is now not his thoughts, who is not his body, who is not his mind. Poor Deepak, he has lost everything. He is a total pauper. He has nothing with him now. Who is he then?



Poor Deepak, he has lost his thoughts. He has lost his mind, he has lost his body. He has lost all control. All things are automatic. But yet you are saying, Deepak is seeing his thoughts, Deepak is seeing his mind.



Now, Deepak is gone. The concept is gone because he has lost everything. He cannot claim anything to be his. But, he is witnessing. Therefore Deepak exists but not as the Deepak he thought. Therefore Deepak is existence, or Sat. Then Deepak is able to experience it. For that he needs consciousness.



First of all, Deepak is existing there. So he is Sat. He is Existence, not as a small Deepak but as Existence. But then he is able to experience the tree, the leaf shaking. The leaf shakes and the whole universe is shaking for him. He is thrilled at it. He is Chit. There is no exact translation in the English language for that. It is consciousness/intelligence.



He is Chit. He is able to perceive. Now there exists intelligence to perceive. And then he is great joy, Ananda. He is nothing but, Sat Chit Ananda.



Who is Deepak? He is Existence, Consciousness, Bliss, if we were to use the English words. But the more exact words would be Sat Chit Ananda. But since we also use Brahman to say it has got no qualities, the Brahman with qualities is called Parabrahma.



So he is nothing but Sat Chit Ananda Parabrahma. That Deepak is gone, he is dead and he is gone, he is finished, that Deepak who identified himself with thought, mind and body. He is gone. Now that is not Deepak there, what is there is Sat Chit Ananda Parabrahma.



He is witnessing. He is experiencing. He is in bliss. He is in the present. He is the Presence. He is AmmaBhagavan. He is God Himself. That's all. It is all over. When he is God Himself, would he ask, "Is there a God?" "Who is God?" "What is God?"



When Christ was worshipping God, He was saying "My Father in Heaven." But afterwards what did Christ say? "I and my Father are one."



Whatever God you worship, of course you can see your God inside and outside. That is only the initial stage. But as you grow, the strangest of paradoxes is whatever God you worship, you become that God. That is the paradox of this universe and every mystic would discover this on his mystical journey. Just only the language changes later on.



I'm going to program them now and afterwards they must keep repeating what I'm going to tell for 49 minutes. Now we begin the mukthi teachings. After I give them the teachings they could repeat them after me.



Thoughts are not mine.

Mind is not mine.

This body is not mine.

All things are happening automatically.

There is thinking but no thinker.

There is seeing but no seer.

There is listening but no listener.

There is doing but no doer.

There is no person there at all.



Now we are moving to the main mukthi process. I would repeat the mukthi mantra 3 times after which you would chant it non-stop for the next 49 minutes. The secret is you must all do it together in one voice without a break.



What happens is there are changes which happen to the brain and because of which the mukthi mantra enters the unconscious and the unconscious becomes aware of the mukthi mantra. Then the deeksha takes over and brings about physical changes in the brain whereby you become mukhtas.



Now how do you know you have become mukthas? There are many ways through which you could know you have become mukthas but I will give you a very simple example.



Let us say there is a couple here. They will be going home in the next two hours or so, and let's say the husband hurts the wife or the wife hurts the husband and normally this pain could last for days or weeks, or even months. But now you would notice the pain disappears of its own accord the 31st minute without your doing anything, the pain would just disappear.



As you continue with the sadhana the following days and weeks-you could go back home and do this process-you would notice that very rapidly the time comes down to 25 minutes, 20, 10, and eventually to 5 minutes. No hurt, no pain, no suffering lasts for more than 5 minutes. It just disappears.



Getting to 5 minutes is quite easy. Thereafter, the time comes down to 4, 3, 2, 1. That's a bit difficult. Then finally 1 to 0. That's the most difficult part. But if you have the passion to become sampurna jivanmukthas, or fully awakened, then the next few months you would get to zero.



When you get to zero, of course you join the great enlightened masters. But then the majority of you would get to 5 minutes in the next few weeks or even days. What happens then? The entire atmosphere in the family changes: relationship between husband and wife, between parents and children, you and your in-laws, your relatives, your friends and anything and everything.



As a consequence of this changed environment, you would soon notice that in the external world your financial problems tend to disappear. You health problems tend to vanish. Your business problems and whatever other problems you might have, they also tend to disappear for the simple reason there was this charge, this suffering, this pain which in the first instance caused all these problems.



The coming years are going to be difficult years. But then if you become mukthas you would be able to effortlessly handle these difficult times.



I would now repeat the mukthi mantra 3 times after which you could start chanting. I would be on the screen for a minute or two then I will not be on the screen but Amma and I would be fully meditating and staying focused on you. After 49 minutes Amma and I would come and give you a Nayana deeksha, after which you must become fully awakened.



I am Existence, Conscious, Bliss [chanted in Hindi].







*******************


Messages that appeared on the video screen below Sri Bhagavan:




1. All learning is unlearning
2. Truth when not yours, still remains untruth
3. Where there is choice there is no freedom
4. There are no viewpoints only points to view
5. All things appear and disappear because of the concurrence of causes and conditions, nothings exists entirely alone, everything is in relation to everything else.
6. Love is the essence of the universe
7. You become what you experience
8. Suffering is in the perception not in the fact
9. Not all problems can be solved, some have to be dissolved
10. True affection is to be affected
11. Perfection is not a concept it is in seeing all things perfect
12. How you experience the world depends on you
13. Happiness does not depend on the external world, it depends on how you experience reality
14. When you take what is not yours, you lose what is yours
15. God is where all contradictions coexist

Aianawa
17th April 2015, 03:49
Bumping for feedback , :thup:

Catsquotl
17th April 2015, 04:48
Feedback on?
the question we are not our thoughs? or the Sri Bhagavan teaching.

I agree with the first.

I think the second is overly convoluted without saying much. A series of random statements that we have to accept face value or we aren't listening correctly. He lost me after that.


WIth Love
Eelco

Aianawa
17th April 2015, 04:59
Imo forget about the messenger

Catsquotl
17th April 2015, 05:05
Ehm ok, but what's the message he is trying to convey?

Reading through his discourse has me wondering... should I be with my experience? or become a muktah.
I really don't understand where he is going in his teaching, I'm sure he tries to point at something, but the way he speaks makes it so I can't understand at the moment.

Would you like to paraphrase the core of this discourse?
I can't find it.

With Love
Eelco

Aianawa
17th April 2015, 05:37
Your mind is not your mind - when one watches their mind, they are not the mind.

Your body is not your body - your temple is not who you are.

Your thoughts are not your thoughts -

Aianawa
17th April 2015, 12:20
Unsure if you got that ? ( above post ), the material above is like reprogramming as such with deeksha/divine grace added on top. The mind is a placed programme hence being called the ancient mind, a component of the/our veil. Our thoughts, PAH , knowing is our natural state, to not go fishing in that mind river is heaven on earth, holding all the time ( the mind river just is there as such ) is bliss. Service to others becomes normal, service to self ( mind/body/thoughts etc ) just happens, synchronicity while a marvel at first, becomes normal. The more people that reach this state, the more people that reach that state, the more people that begin journey to this state, a natural noospheric transmission. Still, for humanity, likely certain tribulations will be needed ( lovingly of course ) to transpire.

Aianawa
13th May 2015, 09:48
Being a slow day on the forum, I felt to explore my thoughts, ooopps, lol. Many times on close energy encounters with a person, I had thoughts that I knew were not mine, but for some seconds they were until feeling and logic stepped in. I muse how many times back in time did I not know this was happening.

Aianawa
15th May 2015, 03:45
Exploring the thoughts are not your thoughts a wee bit more.

If that river of thoughts became smaller, less easy to pick from to the average human being or more easy to fish for the more positive from it, due to said river getting cleaned up a wee bit through less negative thoughts polluting it, less desire to go fishing but instead having more aspiration to seeking divinely or intuitively, which in turn will help cleanse the river more, could then this itself bring about an event, an event that is not so harsh on the collective mind ?.

Cearna
15th May 2015, 12:19
Being a slow day on the forum, I felt to explore my thoughts, ooopps, lol. Many times on close energy encounters with a person, I had thoughts that I knew were not mine, but for some seconds they were until feeling and logic stepped in. I muse how many times back in time did I not know this was happening.

The first time this happens, it is so close to you and so clear, then each time it happens and you take no notice, it just slips by you.

This is what the first timer might recognise - OMG, where in the world did that come From? You know it is simply, not the type of thinking you would have yourself.

OK live in that second, next time, take notice of it, it does not only happen when in close proximity to someone else. Think on it, regardless of the fact that you are already in a conversation with some one else. This is a thought, not a voice. There is no reason for you to be linking with that thought, so why is it there?

Give yourself a good big hug next time, because all day long, some one within the field of your Soul, has mentioned something, your Soul has been itching to tell you, and you won't take in when it tries to let you know about this particular topic. The imminent tipping of your soul to this some one else, is the first encounter of the best kind you will experience, for it takes you into Soul life. Sorely missing in our Self, is the observation of elevating thoughts. This is wondrous to some - this is awareness of your insides. This is what the final link to Self is

This is the next step in your solid fear full self, beginning to solve "Who I am". These are now your thoughts, not any ancient thoughts in the river of life or whatever else you might like to call it, these are words of elevation, to name one way of putting it, or mind centring to place better wording to this, for this is words of your mind, hearing words of judgemental thinking and this is Soul wrong to you, so you are now tilling the soil, of getting it right, in just this second you have found the essence of life and let it go, without so much as a second thought.

Your Soul life gets caught out like this, until you realise, this is what the real Truth is to me in this particular life's work. These messages are what your Soul has been waiting for you to come to, and if you recognise this as your Truth, it will write this in your Soul for you to carry on through all time, if you don't recognise it, you will need to go through this experience in some way again. Soooooooooo - you are your thoughts, just as your illnesses are the result of re -occurring thoughts of yours, so don't be misled into thinking your thoughts cannot become you, - thoughts heal or harm - these are your simple life goals, start claiming them as your own, and don't logic them out of existence.

:h5:

Aianawa
15th May 2015, 13:28
Felt the best way to reply to above post was putting original post here again, as when you read it and then the above post, stronger clarity may sensed about your thoughts not being your thoughts. Thank you for giving me your angle on how you perceive things Cearna.



What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.

Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. That’s all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.

Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.

Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. It’s very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. That’s all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. That’s all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. It’s very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.

Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. It’s been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? It’s not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.

Then the self, the sense of separation. That’s again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinating—slightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You don’t exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.

Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that you’re wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? It’s not at all your dress.

Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you’re out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you’re moving your arm by your control. It’s not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It’s only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

Now the problem is you’re identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you’re having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem

Aianawa
15th May 2015, 23:55
Hi Cearna, I feel we were talking about others affecting the minds around one and not specifcalllly what one see's as their ( You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind ) mind. if one knows their mind is not their mind then the influence of others minds is felt and/or ignored or used in the moment imo.

Cearna
16th May 2015, 05:22
Hi Aianawa, please do not get me wrong in this, I am not about the changing of your mind in anyway about what you believe, and by the same token, reading your quote over more times than I have already read it, is not going to make me believe that all of the quote is the Truth. and that is what we are all about I believe.


Felt the best way to reply to above post was putting original post here again, as when you read it and then the above post, stronger clarity may sensed about your thoughts not being your thoughts. Thank you for giving me your angle on how you perceive things Cearna.



The point being that neither this persons' statements can be proved as being correct, or incorrect, it is up to us to decide what our senses tell you is right and what my senses tell me is right. I have not been in your Pathway, just as you have not been in mine.

Mine is about the fact that at some time in your life, you were beginning to listen to something deep inside you, that may or my not have been the mind control of days gone by. You are here in life to get to some point of understanding of Truths that all knew before inherited loss of role took over us. We have been engineered so that we feel, see and hear, regardless of knowing that we can or cannot do so. I am indicative of this, I do not think I see, others are sure they see, but do not believe there is such a thing as hearing thoughts, I believe I hear thoughts. I have spent roughly forty years now, listening to my thoughts, a great deal of the time, I know those thoughts are not mine, because I am having a conversation with those who are intent on helping me to make sense of the world and life around me.

I can be having an absolute quiet time in my mind, no thoughts no need to have any, and suddenly, the one I call Ivan starts up a conversation with me. No I do not have multiple personalities and I am not insane, nor weirder than most, this is something Ivan does, because I came to a stage of development where I was able to hear these thoughts. I know they are not my thoughts, I know when it is Ivan or the other Spirits who also talk to me, because we arrange it so that they use words I would not ordinarily use. That is why many of my channellings are often off putting to others, because I asked for it to be given to me in words I do not normally use nor write with. So that each person who channels through me will in some way look different to the others, because I channel multiple spirit beings, all of whom are there because I asked to learn the Truth as it is and always will be. That's just me I was a schoolteacher, and at one stage wrote the notes for Textiles at the Correspondence School in NSW. Now to write the notes, so that they made sense to me I found I needed multiple texts around me, because as often as not, one would contradict the other, and some jumped into a beginning that made no sense to me. I needed to have it work in what is a sequential link from one thing going to the next. For example, learning about the properties of wool, was just something I read and learnt till I had to teach a class of students who had no idea of the reason for studying the formula for wool and its crystalline and amorphous regions. I had to take it back to a very simple understanding, using them so that they could see and feel how it all worked. After this that class began to understand and write with the knowledge that this was why the properties were the way they were. So, in life it is the same to me, if I have lost contact with the underlying Truth, then it is more difficult to bring my own understanding to the Truth, as I found it out in my everyday living. When we go back to where we came from all there know the original Truth, but want to know what we went through and found our own understanding of the Truth. Because, Truth is Truth, but there are many variations of understanding of that Truth, just as in looking up a word in the Dictionary, you will find many meaning to that word, depending upon the context in which it is written.

You are then working on what you perceive to be the understanding of someonelse's words. I on the other hand go to the spirits to ask to know what their understanding of these words are, because my own senses, told me this is a riddle upon another riddle upon another riddle which is how many guru's teach and you are supposed to work it out for yourself from their own or some one else's teachings of life. You have the time to explore his words, I imagine and I don't, but also I am going from the words of my own spiritual advisers which is that I was not to go to any one else's teachings or they would confuse me, they have tailored my learning to my own needs and my role here . Hence back to my statement that we are not all going to believe this statement because otherwise why are we here to gain our own Soverngty at our own pace of development and in our own way, and coming to this from whatever Source, mine, yours or Ancient wisdom, which we all had in the beginning and are adding to it as we live.

Aianawa
16th May 2015, 08:52
Hi Aianawa, please do not get me wrong in this, I am not about the changing of your mind in anyway about what you believe, and by the same token, reading your quote over more times than I have already read it, is not going to make me believe that all of the quote is the Truth. and that is what we are all about I believe.



The point being that neither this persons' statements can be proved as being correct, or incorrect, it is up to us to decide what our senses tell you is right and what my senses tell me is right. I have not been in your Pathway, just as you have not been in mine.

Mine is about the fact that at some time in your life, you were beginning to listen to something deep inside you, that may or my not have been the mind control of days gone by. You are here in life to get to some point of understanding of Truths that all knew before inherited loss of role took over us. We have been engineered so that we feel, see and hear, regardless of knowing that we can or cannot do so. I am indicative of this, I do not think I see, others are sure they see, but do not believe there is such a thing as hearing thoughts, I believe I hear thoughts. I have spent roughly forty years now, listening to my thoughts, a great deal of the time, I know those thoughts are not mine, because I am having a conversation with those who are intent on helping me to make sense of the world and life around me.

I can be having an absolute quiet time in my mind, no thoughts no need to have any, and suddenly, the one I call Ivan starts up a conversation with me. No I do not have multiple personalities and I am not insane, nor weirder than most, this is something Ivan does, because I came to a stage of development where I was able to hear these thoughts. I know they are not my thoughts, I know when it is Ivan or the other Spirits who also talk to me, because we arrange it so that they use words I would not ordinarily use. That is why many of my channellings are often off putting to others, because I asked for it to be given to me in words I do not normally use nor write with. So that each person who channels through me will in some way look different to the others, because I channel multiple spirit beings, all of whom are there because I asked to learn the Truth as it is and always will be. That's just me I was a schoolteacher, and at one stage wrote the notes for Textiles at the Correspondence School in NSW. Now to write the notes, so that they made sense to me I found I needed multiple texts around me, because as often as not, one would contradict the other, and some jumped into a beginning that made no sense to me. I needed to have it work in what is a sequential link from one thing going to the next. For example, learning about the properties of wool, was just something I read and learnt till I had to teach a class of students who had no idea of the reason for studying the formula for wool and its crystalline and amorphous regions. I had to take it back to a very simple understanding, using them so that they could see and feel how it all worked. After this that class began to understand and write with the knowledge that this was why the properties were the way they were. So, in life it is the same to me, if I have lost contact with the underlying Truth, then it is more difficult to bring my own understanding to the Truth, as I found it out in my everyday living. When we go back to where we came from all there know the original Truth, but want to know what we went through and found our own understanding of the Truth. Because, Truth is Truth, but there are many variations of understanding of that Truth, just as in looking up a word in the Dictionary, you will find many meaning to that word, depending upon the context in which it is written.

You are then working on what you perceive to be the understanding of someonelse's words. I on the other hand go to the spirits to ask to know what their understanding of these words are, because my own senses, told me this is a riddle upon another riddle upon another riddle which is how many guru's teach and you are supposed to work it out for yourself from their own or some one else's teachings of life. You have the time to explore his words, I imagine and I don't, but also I am going from the words of my own spiritual advisers which is that I was not to go to any one else's teachings or they would confuse me, they have tailored my learning to my own needs and my role here . Hence back to my statement that we are not all going to believe this statement because otherwise why are we here to gain our own Soverngty at our own pace of development and in our own way, and coming to this from whatever Source, mine, yours or Ancient wisdom, which we all had in the beginning and are adding to it as we live.

You are correct in each to their own Cearna, I talk with my divine/higher self/higher fractual regularly, imo it is becoming more normal nowadays, if my/the thoughts came in, I would talk my way out of this lol. My preference is to see this as scientific as possible, with the body not being one's body, many can understand this, with the mind not being your mind, this may be difficult to accept if your not out of your mind, your thoughts not being your thoughts is similar imo and as we differ on this aspect, which is good and reading your experience around this reminds me of a story.

While one watched their mind and enjoyed being the watcher, believing this was the soul watching, this one realised they were watching the watcher, feeling very far removed from the mind now, they watched the watcher having thoughts around the mind before it, OH automaticalllly on instinct looking behind itself.

Aianawa
17th May 2015, 07:49
Hi Cearna, I read your last post a couple more times as I felt you had put the effort into trying to understand my posts also.

Thoughts that are not ours, coming from divine/spirit/god/Ivan, are not what is being talked about so much, my life involves walking with spirit talking consistently as feelings and knowing but I still have mind chatter lol. Thank you for allowing me to go deeper into my beliefs as such Cearna.

Cearna
17th May 2015, 12:08
Thank you for your courtesy. In this time I will also explain, is that the earliest of Ivan's teachings to me, was that thoughts become what we ourselves are. The old story was - you are what you eat - I aimed to teach life in the raw - or what type of life we live, can heal or destroy us. In my earlier days, I discovered that I had spent many night times in what you might call never ending thoughts or chatter in my head, finding it difficult to sleep - I do not know how many nights I spent re-arranging the rooms in our home. Ivan wanted me to stop living the life of the one who hid from life, into one participating in life - he sheltered me at first, by helping me to understand what was going on in my inter-relationships with others till I felt more secure in myself and in my self-esteem - so all hail the spirits who come to help us all. I came to do a role here, but until I felt OK to be in life, all I was doing was gradually dieing.

My Reiki Master, back in 1983, taught us that illness came from what we thought and when you look at illness in this way, I could see that the many illnesses I had were in fact due to how I thought. At the time I had Leukaemia, and Ivan had me look at my thoughts, which were for the most part that I held back from all life and thus began to have less and less blood to take myself through life. at a later date, my husband had heart problems and couldn't do much, so I was doing a great deal more than I felt I could cope with. He told me colleen stop saying that you can't cope, or your illness will come back, after a time, I felt I was just lacking in enough energy to be able to do what I had to, and a blood test said I was back in acute Leukaemia, and the haematologist, felt I had little chance of recovery. So my need was to get my mind out of the way, and go through the nasty Kemo and let those Above get on with the job of healing and loving me. I got over that illness, and three haematoma operations, with those same thought, just that there was no way I wouldn't get better.

This is why, I have a thing I suppose about thoughts, I claim them as mine, not some river of thoughts, which of course is true as well. I would be the first one to say that you can lie over an older area such as in the standing stone circle and you will easily allow yourself to see and hear and feel the thoughts and words of by-gone days. They do sit there, as do the emotions of times gone by, so I acknowledge what you are saying, it is that my experiences with the help of Ivan's teaching have also told me, have shown me that Life exists to open the mind to newer sorts of thoughts than you may otherwise have had in other versions of your sort of life.

some instances take your self-expression on, and some never worked on thoughts, just seemingly live in utter confusion - in every case, time is opening some innovative toughness to withstand the next working-in phase in your life. If you ask to close them off to view as someone else, this works as a buffer against the slings and arrows, chucked at you, but things get too stale, in reckoning your need to live in the totality of life at a distance, which this wording suggests to you. At some instances in life you really become the chatter of the mind, and on some level, the first toll of the bell in your Soul, tells you to find a bed and make life less costly to your out comes - or- Keep It Simple Sweetheart.

Life's a gamble, the toss of the coin, can have you opening into the flowering blossom, or clearing it all off to start again. Self of yours, is finding your role, just as mine began in being ill, you are following what you find becomes useful to carry on. I'm a get-to-do sort now, once I hid in my own little rabbit hole (I was born in the year of the Rabbit), I couldn't have found my way without loads and loads of thoughts, still can't, but that's what I am, you are what you are and blessings to you for that.

Aianawa
17th May 2015, 13:28
And blessings back to you dear Cearna, from your story we have a few experiences in common, my first reiki teacher was/is wise indeed, her pearls I pass on that worked for me, your story also helps me understand some issues at present in this life, not fully but differing thoughts lol appearing for myself than my usual I would have, lol I feel like I am at school and had a wee blue/fight with you and are now getting along just fine, blessings to you again Cearna.

Cearna
18th May 2015, 04:50
Do you mind if I explain another area of what I consider thought can do for you?

I mentioned that I cannot see, to me this is a big thing, because I am actually a clairvoyant, who is like a bee-in-a-bottle, not able to find the trees for the subtleties of all the other senses are clamouring to find excuses to use me for once. My seer abilities , too, cost too much close contact to places in the future, so I had to deny the most divine senses I have, in order to not go under to many other worldly experiences.

Firstly, to give yourself a chance to learn, you need to deny the easiest to use, then invite the emotions to cover over the first needs, and use what ever inventiveness you can muster within limitless openings to something you have never tried before. In my thread on identity, I explored how my pathway this time was to be able to explore the unlimited possibilities that we can be and are. So I explained it to myself, that I was able to see and could tell myself when in the need to find out what I had seen, such as when I went to Japan to let the first of the energy domes, put down by 29 Atlanteans at the end of their life in Atlantis, it was time for them all to be released to bring about change, so I started with the dome in Russia, then asked myself what I had seen, and there was a mushroom cloud more than any Atomic bomb set off in our lifetimes, after doing three of these (Russia, Japan and Israel), I decided this was too much physical effort for me to traverse the world and do the other 26, so I told myself I will do this in Spirit where the toll on myself was less.

I also compensated by telling myself, that knowing I was seeing, was all I needed, and from that I would in fact allow my automatic pilot to take over to do whatever it was that I knew needed to be used, stood there and just took off. This is a bit fearful at the beginning, especially when I begin to speak in other languages and have no idea what I've said, and no idea how I know what I know, but it gets the job done. Like, when I was working as a healer using, all kinds of energies (have a look at my thread in the healing forum to give you just a small idea of the energies I can use). If I just stand and let everything flow, I begin to use bits and pieces of all kinds of modalities, chant in goodness knows what languages, use hand waving to work the energies to where I need to put them and begin in some way to see what is under it all and work at taking it out, daggers, string canonballs whatever. The person, always says how did you know that's exactly where I was paining, and If I ask the body to tell me what it is all about, I get a long story about past and present lives and what they are doing to themselves, which is usually spot on according to any other person with them. If I didn't let myself just go and do, I probably wouldn't have a clue. I got enough in me once to ask two people if they knew what I was speaking, one said Oh! you speak Thai and really well (she was Malaysian, but her father spoke Thai) and the other said you are speaking an ancient form of Aramaic, but I am only able to understand parts of it (he was an old Arab). So without my thought being put to use to start me off (I often say, let's get this show on the road), think how stultified I would be, instead of being able to encompass what ever I obviously know from many lifetimes of studying healing all over the world as a shaman as well as having spent a very long lifetime in the Amazon with the 300 hundred Atlanteans, for we moved to the Amazon from Atlantis in order to learn every possible method of healing, until we could just do it without having to think. By the Way we used Reiki way back then, but in a more advanced form than you have been given it.

Another way of using my thought is to tell myself what to do - if for example I have just gone through an angry episode with my spouse, I know I have probably, become closed off during the exchange, so I say "I NOW OPEN UP" and I do. I have also told my Soul not to accept anything someone else wiches to harm we with in their thoughts - it knows now that I am not to be harmed in any way by attacks on me by the PTB or their Demon minions, and I send back to them whatever is sent to me. If you felt at all that you were fighting me and inadvertently sent some harmful thoughts my way you would get them back and then would have to deal with them yourself, not me because I do not want to have to deal with anyone else's angst or whatever harm they wish on me, because I get plenty of attacks from TPTB that in fact are intent to kill me, they get it all sent back to them. I also use the belief that I am INVIOLate in this wayy and use the wording I put on my thread in channelling on how to do with attacks of violating your Self Hood, this is why I claim my thought to be mine in these situations.

In terms of replacing the ability to see an image, like when under hypnotherapy or other therapies when the first thing they ask me to do, is to visualise something - I'm not in the race of doing that, so I have to follow their thoughts with my own and tell myself to do what they are asking of me. My homeopath asked me to project my gall bladder to him, because I could feel it and yet it had been removed - I had no idea what to do so I simply thought gall bladder, gall bladder, gall bladder and what he saw was an intact spirit gall bladder I had put in place so I would still have a functioning gall bladder.

These are just a few ways I use my own thoughts to work psychically, because I do not see. It's worth exploring, tell yourself what you are NOW doing and you will be doing it. Sorry if my school teacher self got the better of me, but yes all is well between us, I just have a thing about notever accepting any kind of limitation, now that I have found it is within yourself to be limitless. Love Colleen

Aianawa
18th May 2015, 05:17
Yes I do lol but go ahead, will zip back later to read though as busy.

Cearna
18th May 2015, 13:23
Now the problem is you’re identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. Because of failure of intelligence you’re having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem


Self is the identification of a being, who at the beginning of time, decided to claim IDENTITY, to be a single life, and was then given for the journey, the first and only Spirit and Soul it was ever to be given. Thus your life began as one giving love, in the role of self, trying to find what all the fuss is about,that others had felt the need to set off to find. The self sets out to find, what places and people find,e.g kindnesses, mindlessness, patience, exemplary behaviour that sets others to find the same and live with or love with others. These others, are not themselves, nor ever will be themselves, for their uniqueness of each one person will live on forevermore.

Kindred loving relationships must be given up and let go of, and so this is what the first lore of life is - to learn to be one in the totality of life and yet be your own Soul and Spirit, which will live on. Leaving behind loved ones causes spiritual distress to so many. Clearing off your life to die is so painful, you are soon to clear self off, but must leave behind those loved ones, from each life, and thus this feels like separation, but will last only for a short time, once gone on. This seals love inside, to open again, if and when you meet once again.

The finding of giving up life means giving up the first of God's lores, which is do not take the life of another Soul, for your Self is then in jeopardy of eminently, not meeting them ever again. The dead give up on you after that, and so life ends as the emptiness rather than fulfilment of life's purpose. For many lifetimes, after any taking of anyone else's life, you will be like a non-socially accepted lost soul, thus separated,from all others in life, till you are ready to claim, what this did to them. What you did if you took life was to cease a life before it was able to
do what it came to do.


The actions of any one life, is important to your Soul, so until you accept the fact that you are an identity that is complete as the body/spirit/soul, you are not the first of all, but you are a spark of beginning of life from that first one. A spark is not the whole of that first one, but you are a part of the first one's world, and as such you are the finite expression of your identity, which contributes to the wholeness, once all return back to the place from whence you all came. Until within that completeness of the whole, you are only living as a part of the whole heart of the giving of gospel Truth. For, till you return to the whole totality of the first one's dreaming, you are working in roles, one lifetime after another, as set down in your own Story Book, which lives on, as your Soul connection to the Above whole.

As long as you are not to return back to the whole, for a very many more lifetimes, you will heal, but not understand the first pining to link to One Above, to return in right Spirit/Soul, in your fullness of Self, having re-aligned to this only in the last 10 lifetimes, when you will start seeking to find the wavelengths that are so high a frequency, you will not be able to them, until you have worked on through every working role, or chapter, of your own Story Book.

At the beginning of your 4th last Life, you will connect, to the final link to loving joy, and you will have no heart to stop life in your own Self Identity, but will start to merge into the vibrational heights to one -ness. This cannot be Ascension, as the Gurus speak of it, because all of their teachings, were given to closed minds, a very long time back, by the givers of bed-head God's stories, to the faithful of the Golden Calf religions, and thus by Demonic Gods. They have contributed to the complete lifetime stories of getting to go higher, ever higher, where is, in fact, where D jinn reside. They, then, capture your Soul, throw it away,and this is what the religions all tell you - to raise evermore in dimensional bliss, for you will find Nirvana/Heaven/Paradise/Eternity. By reaching into this, you are someone then, who clearly begins to fin Enlightenment. This also leads to getting took over Mind/Body/Soul/Spirit in a bent older one's sign of having lost all Light to a D jinn to increase the power it uses to kill life with.

Extra elevation to your Spirit/soul only comes from accepting the joint responsibility of your role of an identity, being as you are this now, but the first sign that you are now leaving behind the lies of theirs, you will be heart locked off and you will suffer as you never, ever want to suffer, for you will each day, life long, be fed on, till you are nothing inside this is no fallacy, if you have wanted to follow, some channeller of ET's for instance,and give your love to them, and follow what they tell you, then you decide to move on, wait a bit, then find your energy level, is so bad, you will have bed-head Gods (Demons), taking on your minds, telling you it is wrong to be kind to yourself. From every-one else's mind, you will be told , don't leave, we need you, but this is not loving you, for in the group, you feel loving like never before, but away outside the group, you will need healing in galore as the demons such the Life force out of all the attendees or the readers of such channellings.

I'm a channeller, I don't read from ETS or those who tell of greater beingness to come - you are what the First one began as, in a spark of evolutionary change of all who live in a role of endless love, you are already being open to such Godliness and gods, don't ask for worship, or bowing down to them, or find each day as more than you do, they are in some need to give you your needs as you need them, - not to stop living in deprivation to what you are now Mind (thoughts)/Body/Spirit/ and Soul.

Please begin to stop looking for the first to get to the top dimensions - there is but one dimension - it is but time in space. Once you toss away religious dogmas of any kind and look to Soul life you will have reached more than these gurus's ever will with their long ago stories, they are traps. Follow your heart and the signs of the flow of life.


Except that all lores state that for the final life to be finalised, you need to work on the first thing of all, and that is to clear your mind/heart/spirit and soul of extraneous things like knowledge of joint lives spent in roles of parent hood. To go back, you must let go of all ties to lives on Earth

Aianawa
19th May 2015, 02:09
I am rereading your second post back Cearna as I feel there is a big difference between knowing and thinking thought/s and I am finding it difficult to discern the difference within that post, knowing is within and from across the veil or one's connection here/now across/with fifth dimension and above imo, so I feel that much of what you consider thoughts is in fact knowing responded to and sometimes your thoughts may be simply good logic used, am feeling into it ( your post still ).

Aianawa
21st May 2015, 12:50
In my perception you are a complex kitten Cearna, imo well connected to your higher fractuals in a way certainly differing from what I have known before, that is so cool to me, I feel to some degree your knowing is interpreted by yourself as thoughts and also that you are in three worlds simultaniousely while present here as such, this allows that first world we are all born into to be used positively and purposefulllly with the other two worlds ( some may say 4th and 5th dimensionalllly ), once again I am saying this from my own perception and experience, I am enjoying and learning from observation of your writing and feelings, thankyou.

Cearna
22nd May 2015, 10:44
Thank you for your comment, I am not to claim I am different, my need was to find self, because I had grown up with a very angry Scorpio mother, who was only satisfied if she had complete control of my, and as the youngest of two, certainly didn't want me to go to a life of my own and fought it in every possible way, because she had only one lung, and was incapable of living her life without the support of someone who knew what to do. Eventually at age about 37 and my own health failing from not wanting to live any more under these conditions, I left home and turned to the alternative modalities, to help me seek myself. I was just about to begin seeking when I was told my Higher Self was coming down to be hear at my side, which is most unusual, and I helped him to come on down. he asked me to please turn to no other Source for my growth, than himself, because I should have begun to learn, as a child and had to make up for lost time, in a very short period of time, because as I keep saying I had a very specific role to do this lifetime.

I am the only one trained to bring in new energies at the highest possible level, when a new Age is about to commence. I have come here to Earth to do this task, since the Age of Libra, which is when time began for us. Why do we need some one person to do this, it is because a New Energy does not simply appear, you know the story of Dr. Usui, for Reiki, well he was there in a time when life began to re-assert itself, and the people at that time, except for a few Taoist had lost all knowledge of the use of energy in our life. People were not ready to take in extreme levels of energy, and neither was he, so the energies he was given, to start us off again, was the 21st level of the golden range of energies, which actually go to a 2,000th level, and he was only given a part of that 21st level, that was all that could be given.

the reason for this is that the person bringing in each new Energy must be a Master of all energies and be able to take each new one into their own body, then transmute and transform it then it is able to be transmitted out to the Earth and its people without any harm to them. Sorry must finish this later, must go for my meal.

Cearna
22nd May 2015, 12:18
Continued from above

So, I'm a conscript, a being of talents, but no teacher here who can in fact believe in what it is that I do. Ever since, the first Gods began, they really had to deliver what was needed as it came along, the teachings of Gods only gave the basics, and nothing else was shown, nor worked on. Each being learnt a basic plan, and emptied out what didn't work, or used what did work. This is then Creation gone mad. I'm a very, very old spirit, and the God's themselves are still asking, what are you and who are you, because all I am is wild genes in motion. There is solid evidence, that I get sent to sort out anew plan to work to, that will encompass the olden days things, that work and need be done, but allows for absolutely new gifts or lets eminent talented people to sort out for themselves.

So you might say I came without a blue-print to work from. I cannot tell how I need do what I do for the toss of a coin could result in many or only one direction, so I was set up with Aries in abundance Aries Sun, Moon, Ascendant, Saturn, Mercury, which allows for lots of thinking, and my main planet being Uranus in Taurus, so I can come in with wild cards in my thinking, and then work on the basics, and let my senses and yes my inner knowing set me off, but thought are all I have to make my needs into reality, so I never do know what will result, since my thoughts begin the process and then it is off to what ever comes along that time, not so much knowing but extemporising upon what Creation seems to tell me is needed this time. Creation works this way, what is needed just seems to appear, so what this Earth needs and the people capable of going on to the next evolutionary step will just suddenly start to do. It's the flow of life force, I can only bring in what is need by that particular time, place and the evolutionary growth of people and Earth, Knowing in a way, I suppose, but mostly letting be what will be with a push in the right direction from my thoughts and yes, I must admit I get my head out of the way, and let flow what is needed.

This make any more sense? As for dimensions, only you see it as your understanding of how everything is, in my fearsome mind, no timing ever works on dimensional living, will not one timeline at a time be enough for you to cope with, to me it sits only in the minds of those still trying to work life out and can only slot the unknown into some place we are not yet able to reach for.

Well, do you know what? When my little dog Duggah was really sick and I was trying to reach for higher energies to somehow heal her, so I held her in my arms, and at intervals would say, I am now going higher to the next level of energies, and off we would go. The little dear saw the place she had originated from and decided that is what I want, and not much later than that she died of heart failure. Having set off that high I began to wonder can I go on higher, and on different days, asked the Goddess of Light to come with me and off we went to the levels above her she had never gone up to, and she is one of the 20 Source Gods. We went as High as at least now I wanted to go to, and at each level she lit that Realm of being up with her Light and each being in each level allowed me to take in the energy of their level of Being-ness so I could transform it and transmit it to Earth as and when needed. Thought and a sense of can I do it, set me off, I just went up, however I do not call these dimensions, these are the realms of the highest of the endlessness of the Evermore.

Hence my belief that only the restrictions of the limits within you are what limits who and what you are. Ivan accompanies me in my own Right to Know, to stop obstructions to my own risking, or of my taking on too much, before I am in real Light to begin, each beginning, thus we learn and experience together..


In my perception you are a complex kitten Cearna, imo well connected to your higher fractuals in a way certainly differing from what I have known before, that is so cool to me,


:smile2: :hugs: :chrs:

Aianawa
22nd May 2015, 14:13
Can I get away with, your not your thoughts but your knowing lol

Cearna
23rd May 2015, 10:12
Yep!!!!!! OK I give in too, six of one, half a dozen of the other, I suppose.:smile2:

Aianawa
24th May 2015, 05:05
From some of your recent posts here, you are not your body and using your body/temple so so well, With many people still held in the spell of the collective mind (which is fast fast changing), besides changing ourselves first and then around us, what else do you see that would be a constructive collective mind exercise for allll ?

Cearna
24th May 2015, 09:40
From some of your recent posts here, you are not your body and using your body/temple so so well, With many people still held in the spell of the collective mind (which is fast fast changing), besides changing ourselves first and then around us, what else do you see that would be a constructive collective mind exercise for allll ?

?oh - you mean around the topic of your are not your thoughts, or are we opening into more than this?

I'll start with my end of the bargain, and so, not exactly your own thoughts as to what you are solving in your Spirit and Soul, for this is what you are. Your body receives input from what is called the Sound Current. You ask to know what Temple links to me? I eminent so called vibrations, at the level now of the final one, who is the highest of the endlessness of the evermore. That is because all of my aspirations, to go higher, were to enhance the better part of living Right to Know. Each day I went to a new level, I was so welcomed by the bevy of these singular beings, who said I was the first to ever reach as far as they were in vibrationary terms. To clearly be in their vibrationary link I had to bow to their intelligence, so their words would mean the same to them as they do to me ie. a corruption of Tolec's English, which Ivan made use of, to allow me to pick up words at a faster pace than usual, because of the fear that the better rate I would need to use, would read OK to me but would be rigid in the final life of a God's words, to make clear these were not my own words, but were the words of someone who wants no substitute to be used over time as the meanings of words change.

So, I now solve what the Gods have needed all along, was some one who can risk the enormous guilt trip they put to you, for if I flounder then I am just one more casualty of ego, over true stamina, as they suffer no fools to be in their right to know. I do not question the words, but I am given role models to follow along the way. This is ONE MIND, because all their analysis of the mind of elitism - is that their is only the first thought that fits the complexity of embryo life in our work on Earth, so the concensus of opinion has come to mean that immediately links to God is said, then it means a loony bin is let loose on us. This is what their summary is of how Ivan's words have been taken in TOT. The God's needs are few, they are simply like a Dad or Grandfather, who are wise beyond comprehension, but since I arrived to meet them, they are so placed now, that the immensity to life can begin to be no more like olden days, and so they have come in to meander around, listening to you all, and empathically costing the apathy in some, against the few who really began to meet the needs of generic totem poles, for people make life to get to spend money on technological heaps of rubbish, which cannot occur for much longer, but there is equally less discernment on the stories being rolled into paper trails of books etc, then mindless of the dissonance in these trophies of books, videos etc you ask to know, but take little notice of what Truth is inside the field of bent old men, who take loads of money, from you all, to make better stories to sell later on and so pander to your need to know.

The first fear in the eminent experts is, who will believe what this says, well like get to own Self, how in the world, can Self know right from wrong in what some one else says, if in fact, back in the dim dark ages, the mitigation of making loyal love to Jesus/Buddha/ Knishna and so on, was sold over again, till every one wants to love the one everyon else know, for who knows if true or not and thus on TOT we have recently had a spate of threads on who know what?

The first thing I was taught was sling it to me (Ivan), he has access to knowledge of who is more likely to be reputable, and who is more likely to be living on royalties from the sales of books, yet this author may have no more clue to the truth than you do, so as long as no other, big name in their subjects comes along, they can live on their sales and in the end no one does know if they know the truth or not, they can just tell a damned good story, especially in the field of spirituality. I make life easy to live, because all my needs are met, daily, so if everyone wanted to clearly live in faith and trust to give yourself a better life, we would need be held in gaol, because the halls of fame are simply littered with the first to get their book on the shelf as the expert, not who so lives in vital like of which no one else can because they are too fearful to fill their minds in justifiable total, pure, simple love.

That's enough for today, I've got some sewing to get done. any questions, off you go?

Aianawa
24th May 2015, 13:26
Interesting, okay I watched this earlier and was pretty much astounded at a couple of the imo pearls given around thoughts and mind > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3zKwZqfWrY < and as my usual, I will go about being experiencial with imo perals given, in my daily life, even though this vid ( a way out of pain ) was created 1st dec last year, I have yet to see it spewed up elsewhere as yet, is it pearls new in these times ?, nope, but a new way of using wisdom in our karma mud wrestling energy Gaia elevating times. I bring this up as I was watching about the time you posted and it may be part of the q n a of divine info assisting allll.

Aianawa
12th June 2015, 04:08
Imagine not being part of the collective mind, only your own thoughts, then not even your own, at this stage of no thoughts does one live on logic and synchronicity plus knowing ?.

Cearna
14th June 2015, 12:26
Imagine not being part of the collective mind, only your own thoughts, then not even your own, at this stage of no thoughts does one live on logic and synchronicity plus knowing ?.

Aianawa, on Earth since the Annunaki and other species arrived here, way back in the time of the end of Atlantis, we have had, 2 types of people here, living on Earth. The Reptoids, Insectoids, and whatever other species, who say they are in the role of clearly beginning the people of Earth, came from a place originally outside of the full sphere of Life made by the original Gods on Earth. The ones who came from outside were a hive minded people, they have a collective mind, because they do not each have a Soul, they have a group Soul. The beings created by the first one here who produced this type of Light for the first time, and was the one to create us all, gave us all a Soul and a Spirit.

When they came in from outside this world, there were Demons on the underside of the huge living entity, who soon became split into two a male and female and they produced offspring right throughout this Universe, and they colonised many planets throughout, so these in our terms are ET's and they teach of what the know life to be. They have worked life as they believe it ought to be and teach their stories to us as if we are the same, and they teach of the collective mind, because they only have a mind and a body. They are able to mind control so they give many of us their teaching to believe in because that is their truth, they are a collective mind

However, those of us, who were created, (shall I say, by the Light), I'm going to be a bit candid here, because we have a Soul and a spirit we are individuated, that is we find our own way, because all in Light hear see and feel the sounds of that one Above us. This to some extent is a terrible disadvantage, because even though we may not be aware of the Sounds of the sound Current, we have an incredible longing deep inside us to go to that enormous loving sound, so it makes us feel extremely lonely in the midst of others, even the most loved ones, and we to an extent feel lost, till we follow the flow of life itself which will show us what we need to find.

However, we are never really alone, we have a Higher Self, and a Soul as well as our mind and spirit. The Higher Self helps us if we let it, the Soul also helps us to go in the direction it would like us to go and it tell the Spirit, OK the decisions made are working within my needs, so spirit off you go and take them into this direction. at this juncture even though we have more or less free will, depending on whether you are capable of disseminating what you are doing within that choice, that you not harm someone else, then it will usually be the case that when you had choice, each of the choices would take you to the same end, it is just a matter of which road you feel like taking.

So, you have a mind, you can use logic, or intuition, or as i like to do watch the signs like synchronicity, you can meditate, trance out, just go in where others fear to tread, you learn along the way. I found as I went I had tools to use, like if I do this this time, and I come across another step, where I am not sure, then if I use the tool I found before that might help. All this in fact us far beyond the collective mind, which is restrictive and robotic, and so on. Knowing gets to be part of all these things and at the same time our own DNA is adding small links to other charts of elevation, that call us on, because we can evolve beyond what we were when we first were born, the collective mind has to rely on opening a Path to clear the way for the entire hive to go through to gain none or small rewards, no matter how advanced they believe they are.

Aianawa
26th June 2015, 21:26
Cearna -
So, you have a mind, you can use logic, or intuition, or as i like to do watch the signs like synchronicity, you can meditate, trance out, just go in where others fear to tread, you learn along the way. I found as I went I had tools to use, like if I do this this time, and I come across another step, where I am not sure, then if I use the tool I found before that might help. All this in fact us far beyond the collective mind, which is restrictive and robotic, and so on. Knowing gets to be part of all these things and at the same time our own DNA is adding small links to other charts of elevation, that call us on, because we can evolve beyond what we were when we first were born, the collective mind has to rely on opening a Path to clear the way for the entire hive to go through to gain none or small rewards, no matter how advanced they believe they are.

Hi Cearna, I feel you when you say about going in where others would not tread, reminds me of a client who talked of doing a 10 day vipassana and afterwards, treaded hugely dangerousely, unscathed though, but on coming out of their amazing mind place and journey and realising the death defying adventures ( he did some amazing amazing work ), stayed completely away from a/their spiritual path, till health tapped them on the shoulder, thanks for your reply.

Aianawa
14th July 2015, 09:57
This vid > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3zKwZqfWrY < Way Out Of Pain by Matt Khan had me having to look into my own practice of dealing with others pain, this led to evaluating my words when others pain is present, usually it would be i feel your pain and after now saying i acknowledge your, there has been much positive differences felt by myself, now, on the note of others pain and of course their thoughts producing suffering, which are not their thoughts, just a memory connection as such etc, i see/feel the big difference I Feel and I Acknowledge, also seeing the difference between involving oneself with the collective mind or not.

ps not saying out loud, the i feel or acknowledge, of course, did try that, lol tough learning lol

Cearna
15th July 2015, 09:38
hI AGAIN, Yep, that client, I can most certainly empathise with.


reminds me of a client who talked of doing a 10 day vipassana and afterwards, treaded hugely dangerousely, unscathed though, but on coming out of their amazing mind place and journey and realising the death defying adventures ( he did some amazing amazing work ), stayed completely away from a/their spiritual path, till health tapped them on the shoulder, thanks for your reply.


I did a 7 day Rebirthing seminar, with Leanard Orr, the founder of Rebirthing. It was quite an experience, for we were at the Sydney University in a Pyramid building, so all the energy of the many Rebirths we did in a day, was built up expotentially by the pyramid building. It was my first ever experience of meeting with psychics, to any degree. there were 7 of them who seemed to be doing a dance around me, later, I found out they were trying to find out what kind of a psychic I was, and at that stage I had no idea. I wasn't very well, which was partly why I was at the seminar, as I had only had 1 0r 2 rebirths before this, and after the first one, about 2 weeks later, I suddenly heaved a sigh of relief and told myself everything was OK now - at that stage I had forgotten that I had been in the throes of an Saturn/Pluto opposition for over two years, Saturn had just recently moved on and Pluto had at last just moved on at this time as well, and at last the oppression I had felt I was under was finally leaving me. The first Rebirth felt like it was the most powerful thing I had ever experienced, even thought the only thing that I was aware of was that I could see everything around me, yet I was making sur my eyes were tightly shut (found out later that my third eye had opened for the first time since I had been a little toddler).

So this Seminar, had me learning about being the Re-birther, and these pyschics around me were treating me in a wholely different way, than I had ever been treated by any one before, this opened me into becoming extroverted instead of very introverted, and willing to try just about anything. In a very short time I followed this one with a Reiki Seminar, the first Reiki Master to ever come to OZ, followed by a 7 day live- in bio-energetics workshop, which also helped me enormously, for it opened me more into the world of how we think, and so how we believe in our own patterns. I was by this time ready to jump right in and follow the signs, all of which left me doing just what you say your client did, amazing experiences, but for me, opened me into the spiritual enhancement of my life.

As for this

this led to evaluating my words when others pain is present, usually it would be i feel your pain and after now saying i acknowledge your, there has been much positive differences felt by myself, now, on the note of others pain and of course their thoughts producing suffering, which are not their thoughts, just a memory connection as such etc, i see/feel the big difference I Feel and I Acknowledge, also seeing the difference between involving oneself with the collective mind or not.

As you know if you are working on some one, you do get to feel their pain at the time, so I believe that if you are feeling their pain, then you are being honest to say so, to acknowledge their pain is really important, for many have been fighting against the words of others, who simply don't believe in their illnesses. I had a continual fight with this from my sister, who believed that all illness sprang from the mind and thus she believed that you just had to think your self out of it - she wasn't wrong, but she did not recognise the fact that an emotional illness, can become a full blown physical illness, and when that happens, the physical illness must be treated as a reality, not just an emotion or a thought, the acknowledgement of this fact can in fact give a great release to the person, who can then be prepared to work with you.

I hope you do not need to do what I did and that was to seemingly come up with all sorts of such physical problems, because my emotional life was such a mess, therefore I was able to add to many clients, I know what it feels like to go through this illness - mine was a case of physician, heal thyself. The main thing is to not let them keep the record going of what they have experienced, because, many are in drastic need of sympathy, more so than the healing itself. You run a fine line with all of these things, because you can begin to decide what it is they are going through instead of actually asking their Soul, what it is that they are going through, for I find their Soul will readily tell me what the real problem is. I had a therapist, who believed I was looking for sympathy, because when she massaged me, I began to get real pain and she would tell me off. I had to have a hysterectomy, and she decided, I didn't need it, I was just trying to get attention, but the day after the operation, one of the theatre nurses, told me, don't ever let any one say this operation was not needed, you were in a terrible state, yet ever after telling her this, she still believed I was only looking for attention. Why do I tell you this because this thread is about thoughts, and so I feel it is really important to consider what is being said, both by you and by the person being spoken to, because what we have learnt along our journey, may work out wonderfully well for you most of the time, but just might not fit every occasion, or every person - yes indeed for a practitioner, definitely tough learning, and in my case, extremely tough learning, during this time, when I was very vunerable.

Aianawa
16th July 2015, 10:06
Xlent communication ta, no I started off with as such with bad health, healing/energy wise it was all about me to begin with but did throw myself into the deep end much until some data within kryon material gave me the opportunity to evolve at 1oo miles an hour, about three or so years later I made a promise to dear ones who had continuousely picked up the pieces, been my light house, to change the intent to add lovingly and gently to the 1oo miles an hour journey, was getting scarey but what a process, adventure, remembering and so so fast. Feel it was simply needed, to walk on water for a short while lol, the deepest events that still have onion layers were the trust/trusting/trusted issues, always felt like a sword across the stomach.

lcam88
16th July 2015, 12:32
Reading your posts and still pondering them Aianawa. Consider:

The contemplation of you are not "your characteristics" or "your features" is equivalent to contemplations of God. If the universe is infinite, than any measure to define god as even all characteristics and features imaginable still adds limits in that we create some shape or form. And then the mind may expand to suppose or question what is beyond that shape or form for the paradoxical view that god may not be defined, hence the nature of the infinite universe. (and full circle of logic)

But suppose the universe is actually not infinite, but rather finite, perhaps the only presumption required to be further examined is whether something finite requires shape or form. God then becomes something finite, but without borders, shape or form. That eloquently solves the issue of what is beyond simply because there can be no beyond if no shape or form are identified, or if shape and form are recognized as an illusion.

In that sense, a characteristic like "beyond" is a dimensional attribute, just like any other characteristic we may apply in contemplation of self (though, cloths, etc). Perhaps to identify what we are, we must find a criteria to separate what is illusional/dimensional, to what is absolute and real.

In light of this rational, your thesis in this thread boils down to "we are not an illusion" or "we are not a dimension".

This rational is a paraphrasing of "Universal One" by Walter Russell, published in 1926, from the writings on or around page 48.

lcam88
16th July 2015, 12:32
oops. Sorry for the off-topic. I suppose I misread the OP. I feel compelled to post something meaningful now.

I seem to have ignored the aspect of the possessive personality that is more apparent in the OP. I'll confess that my first intuit was to comment on the possessive aspect, but the quote below make the posting I made more meaningful, I think.


Now the problem is you're identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you're having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense o separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem


And in terms of possessive personalities, its certainly fitting to say the idea of possession creates a world more fragmented and illusionary than the mere attributions of self I initially comment on. But there is more to just fixing the perception of separation, the path taken is important too.

Pedagogs theorize how babies understand themselves and their mothers to be the same, and how they need to be taught they are individuals separate from their mother.

It is fitting to suggest that "our" thoughts are part of a personal experience. [Western] society completely nurtures the idea of separation and polarity since early childhood, "your toy, not your toy", "pink is for girls, blue if for boys", "your room, my room, living room...". And it goes one and one, "Do you know who I am?"...

Many years passed as they are shaped into socially acceptable individuals who respect. Society doesn't function well with disrespect and so in that way maybe individual identification as a distinction from others is necessary to a certain extend.

But then it makes sense to ponder how further growth should be shaped. I was taught with mathematics, studies of society and "history", science, language, concepts of art then later a small set of arbitrary generalities and also specifies in an area of interest where I would later spend my time working for a type of freedom you call money.

But I did what you are doing, started questioning presumptions.

The issue of separation takes its first step to being solved the moment you do that. It is in our nature to be social. I comment on a different thread regarding an issue of trust that touches on the nature of our separation.

The question worth asking is how to get more people to question things around them and I do like the issue you raised: Why the obsession in owning or possessing everything in our midst? Why is it so important?

And the question cuts deeply into society. Do you think the drivers license in your wallet is you? Do you think it is yours? -- for all intents and purposes it is. But what intent and what purpose?...

Many people here on this forum are doing just that. An examination of sorts in what is real to them.

Aianawa
16th July 2015, 12:49
Well this was at the start >



What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.

Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. That�s all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.

Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.

Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. It�s very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. That�s all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. That�s all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. It�s very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.

Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. It�s been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? It�s not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.

Then the self, the sense of separation. That�s again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinating�slightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You don�t exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.

Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that you�re wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? It�s not at all your dress.

Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you�re out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you�re moving your arm by your control. It�s not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It�s only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

Now the problem is you�re identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you�re having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem



< imagine if more and more people stop being part of the collective mind as such, to then know their own mind, cabal would look rather silly imo

Aianawa
19th July 2015, 00:47
Cheers Icam88, intuition informs the feelings allowing mind choices imo.

Aianawa
20th July 2015, 09:07
oops. Sorry for the off-topic. I suppose I misread the OP. I feel compelled to post something meaningful now.

I seem to have ignored the aspect of the possessive personality that is more apparent in the OP. I'll confess that my first intuit was to comment on the possessive aspect, but the quote below make the posting I made more meaningful, I think.



And in terms of possessive personalities, its certainly fitting to say the idea of possession creates a world more fragmented and illusionary than the mere attributions of self I initially comment on. But there is more to just fixing the perception of separation, the path taken is important too.

Pedagogs theorize how babies understand themselves and their mothers to be the same, and how they need to be taught they are individuals separate from their mother.

It is fitting to suggest that "our" thoughts are part of a personal experience. [Western] society completely nurtures the idea of separation and polarity since early childhood, "your toy, not your toy", "pink is for girls, blue if for boys", "your room, my room, living room...". And it goes one and one, "Do you know who I am?"...

Many years passed as they are shaped into socially acceptable individuals who respect. Society doesn't function well with disrespect and so in that way maybe individual identification as a distinction from others is necessary to a certain extend.

But then it makes sense to ponder how further growth should be shaped. I was taught with mathematics, studies of society and "history", science, language, concepts of art then later a small set of arbitrary generalities and also specifies in an area of interest where I would later spend my time working for a type of freedom you call money.

But I did what you are doing, started questioning presumptions.

The issue of separation takes its first step to being solved the moment you do that. It is in our nature to be social. I comment on a different thread regarding an issue of trust that touches on the nature of our separation.

The question worth asking is how to get more people to question things around them and I do like the issue you raised: Why the obsession in owning or possessing everything in our midst? Why is it so important?

And the question cuts deeply into society. Do you think the drivers license in your wallet is you? Do you think it is yours? -- for all intents and purposes it is. But what intent and what purpose?...

Many people here on this forum are doing just that. An examination of sorts in what is real to them.

I feel the question of how do we get more people to question is answered by yourself, we get molded to be society or part of and if the who am I search begins, you are then separating yourself but in doing so, align with like minded people, and at some stage be your own light alongside but separate imo.

Aianawa
28th July 2015, 06:44
Knowing that an event can motivate/enhance/trigger/refocus/unfocus/etc or create emotions with people that will change their belief system ( like those who hated royalty and/or princess Dianna, cried when she died and throughout the funeral ), and that many have been talking about event/s this September ( for me I took this seriousely when Matt Kahn spoke of an event this September around two years ago ), is it possible that enough people know their own minds ( know thyself ) that the collective mind can be anchored by them on behalf of humanity ?.

lcam88
28th July 2015, 14:00
A global event, such as a natural catastrophe, would do it. Often times, in highly stressful moments people otherwise unlikely to work together do so.

Non catastrophic moments that would carry the same power might be possible by a great discovery or revelation that touches each person in a way profound enough to distract them from the normal rat-race of the day to day. How such a thing could manifest in a way that does not provoke the engagement of armies and other forces designed and created to instill public order is another good question to be asking.

Aianawa
29th July 2015, 10:01
Hi Icam88. On the natural catastrophe side of things, I have experienced it on the micro scale when we here in Christchurch city had a big earthquake in feb 22nd 2011, everyone experienced an I will die moment/s, many made changes which is the norm, many pulled together, many looked for answers and began self journeys, many left for somewhere safer or escape, many began learning to manage stress, nowadays most have escaped back to normal if possible, sure their trust in government and insurance companies is completely gone, but your second option entertains my feelings more so, REVEALation, being profound.

Daozen
29th July 2015, 10:07
Non catastrophic moments that would carry the same power might be possible by a great discovery or revelation that touches each person in a way profound enough to distract them from the normal rat-race of the day to day. How such a thing could manifest in a way that does not provoke the engagement of armies and other forces designed and created to instill public order is another good question to be asking.

I said this the other day to an e-friend: "10 billion dollars through Kickstarter, and the Earth is ours."

How else can we do it?

That's all I've got, crowdfunding. I firmly believe the parade of nickel and dime saviours strutting their stuff before the alt media, are all about distracting people from getting their physical act together.

I'm calling them all out: The emperor has no clothes. And... wait... forged documents: He never was an Emperor in the first place.

That's the way I see it, anyway...

Peace

ZShawn
29th July 2015, 16:53
indeed, everyone is so contracted that whatever service is done for another must have some form of compensation worked out before the service is done, world of whores and mercenaries, such a shame.....small wonder the others don't want to visit .

Aianawa
30th July 2015, 03:58
Hi ZShawn, imo it is all about self mastery, everything from turning the other cheek, affecting outside of oneself, to knowing why your here.

Aianawa
3rd August 2015, 01:34
indeed, everyone is so contracted that whatever service is done for another must have some form of compensation worked out before the service is done, world of whores and mercenaries, such a shame.....small wonder the others don't want to visit .

The key words for me in your reply are ( everyone ), I often see this as a pain body word ( Eckhart Tolle ) trigger, ( shame ) again this is your perception and that is okay, many and there is more and more, know all is perfect and go about raising this perfection, other's don't = others not yet ready or knowing, imo.

ZShawn
3rd August 2015, 02:36
The key words for me in your reply are ( everyone ), I often see this as a pain body word ( Eckhart Tolle ) trigger, ( shame ) again this is your perception and that is okay, many and there is more and more, know all is perfect and go about raising this perfection, other's don't = others not yet ready or knowing, imo.
speaking in general terms when I used the word "everyone" .... it isn't just my perception, but is a reality.....
we (in general, for the most part) do for money, what we ought to do for love, this certainly isn't a behavior that advances our species.

ZShawn
3rd August 2015, 06:45
to me love = connection and
spirituality = awareness of that connection

Aianawa
3rd August 2015, 07:33
To me Love = getting past ones fluffiness sometimes, seeing their/the Shiva within.

lcam88
3rd August 2015, 15:15
To me, Love = Oneness

Aianawa
3rd August 2015, 21:54
Agree Icam88, as soon as one puts a signpost lol word ( oneness ) to something, people start defining, what it means to them or what the dictionary says or feelings etc, eg this is oneness for me > http://www.onenesscentre.com.au/Index.html < an Event coming up that aligns to Matt Khan's event timeline, am smiling and happy about sep already.

Aianawa
3rd August 2015, 22:56
speaking in general terms when I used the word "everyone" .... it isn't just my perception, but is a reality.....
we (in general, for the most part) do for money, what we ought to do for love, this certainly isn't a behavior that advances our species.

Nope, this is your perception or why would others hold a different perception, your reality is your perception, we do for love that which we perceive is love, the reality may be different, our species imo has no choice but to evolve with the perceiving programme, what's your reality ( perceiving programme ) ?.

lcam88
4th August 2015, 14:08
Agree Icam88, as soon as one puts a signpost lol word ( oneness ) to something, people start defining, what it means to them or what the dictionary says or feelings etc, eg this is oneness for me > http://www.onenesscentre.com.au/Index.html < an Event coming up that aligns to Matt Khan's event timeline, am smiling and happy about sep already.

I have looked at your link in the most brief and superficial way but feel compelled to say:

Actually, I was meaning to suggest we are all part of one, with the whole of the Universe. That which is different from love, perhaps freedom (its opposite) would cause the whole to separate into distincts...

I know it to be true, I feel it to be true. And while defining and identifying the parts is in our nature, I see it important to understand, see and feel the persistence of oneness even in opposites, so that oneness is not lost.

Is it possible that this type of revelation, in the masses, could cause the type of change you see necessary?

ZShawn
4th August 2015, 14:40
if there is to be some kind of event in sept which somehow induces some kind of changes in people so that people can actually connect with and comprehend each other in new ways then this would indeed be epic.... the lack of empathic comprehension is a major cause of many difficulties we make for each other on this planet.

consider just this little example where I define love which if one looks in a secular and religious dictionary one can see has many definitions ranging from feelings of fondness for a thing or another being to something more encompassing and bigger.... after many years of thinking about this topic and having a few epiphanies it occurred to me that love may indeed be defined as being connection in this way: when one becomes aware of the greater world around them in new ways where there is a feeling and awareness of visceral connection to the other people and life forms and things where these are all seen as extensions of the self and one's self as being an extension as well of these others ( a mutual gestalt) then just as one loves one's self, one also has new feelings of love and concern for these others that is the same as the love and concern one has for one's own self..... which is why I see spirituality as being awareness, since all these people in our collective past who we assign as being "spiritual" have these very qualities and attitudes of not just embracing the idea of being connected to everyone and everything but the actual awareness and experience of it.
so when someone who has had this type of experience would say I love you, it isn't just an intellectual idea it is an experience of one-ness, and that love is not conditional, or dependent on these others having a shared point of view on this or that topic, since even if the other has not had the same experiences of connectivity, they are still connected, they just aren't aware of it.
out of the head and into the heart is the most important journey for us all to make.

lcam88
4th August 2015, 15:33
+1 zshawn

connectedness, In my view, is indeed an aspect of what makes the whole even as the parts may be distinct. Quantum entanglement is a connection, first and foremost. Everything is connected at some level.

And even if we understand oneness as a state of spiritual and pure love, perhaps the subtle distinction between that state [of oneness] and the glue that makes it possible is noteworthy. I'd be inclined to to suggest them being opposite sides of the same token; oneness is less [not] possible without the connection, and also if not for oneness, the connection would be "lost" or arbitary.

And I do thank you for your clarifications. Even as I read your initial posting regarding connection I was in agreement with you.


if there is to be some kind of event in sept which somehow induces some kind of changes in people so that people can actually connect with and comprehend each other in new ways then this would indeed be epic.... the lack of empathic comprehension is a major cause of many difficulties we make for each other on this planet.

Hmmm. I see all months to hold equal possibility of being special. September as much as any other month, unless you are in global finance in which case maybe March and September have special meaning on the eleventh day. It would be epic, I expect something gradual, something personal, and something inevitable to happen.

Aianawa
5th August 2015, 04:35
I have looked at your link in the most brief and superficial way but feel compelled to say:

Actually, I was meaning to suggest we are all part of one, with the whole of the Universe. That which is different from love, perhaps freedom (its opposite) would cause the whole to separate into distincts...

I know it to be true, I feel it to be true. And while defining and identifying the parts is in our nature, I see it important to understand, see and feel the persistence of oneness even in opposites, so that oneness is not lost.

Is it possible that this type of revelation, in the masses, could cause the type of change you see necessary?

Yes, I see and feel that come 2018, many of what many people expected to happen around 2012 dec 21 st, will have come about, So there has to imo be a game changer happening and some timelines available for this to happen.

ZShawn
6th August 2015, 03:43
A fellow I know from Italy who has had many informative dreams told me back in 2008 that the calenders were all off ( which at the time I was already aware of)... in any case he indicated that things would start getting particularly difficult around the 2017 mark and could potentially get really bad over the next couple decades, many earth changes were indicated, and things could be mitigated somewhat if we would ever start working together rather than being at odds with each other over all this petty division stuff and greed based strife.

Aianawa
6th August 2015, 04:53
When the Gregorian calendar was being set up by pope Gregory and the German master mathematician, from the mayan calendar material, they got it imo perfectly correct, am open to being incorrect, just feels like the time lines went perfectly and continuing to do so.

ZShawn
6th August 2015, 05:01
well, who really knows.... lots of learned speculation abounds, but it is good to remain open minded....
I don't consider I know anything absolutely either... I have certain leanings towards ideas which seem more solid to me as well, but I am also open to new information which would revise this.

Cearna
7th August 2015, 12:18
A fellow I know from Italy who has had many informative dreams told me back in 2008 that the calendars were all off ( which at the time I was already aware of)... in any case he indicated that things would start getting particularly difficult around the 2017 mark and could potentially get really bad over the next couple decades, many earth changes were indicated, and things could be mitigated somewhat if we would ever start working together rather than being at odds with each other over all this petty division stuff and greed based strife.

I began channelling the Creator God of the Second side, in about 1986. The first thing he gave me was about Electrical energy and connecting to your own power place from whence you came, the next one was about magnetic energy, and the third one was about time and space and it is this one that has to do with what you are speaking of here.

Synchronicitously, I was looking through my channelled articles and came across this one just as the time of the change over began in December, was to commence. I have a thread about the changeover from the Piscean Age to the Age of Aquarius on TOT, but I have put together snippets from each post to do with this change over together here, we are now in a new time zone as from 23rd December, 2014 and it will take from then till 2017 for the entire changeover to complete, by then we must have a new system of time, and a new calendar, which is what was channelled to me in the following:-

Life as people know it will change when the year 2015 arrives. Before that there will be an awareness of a distinct change in the time, it is already occurring - the year not only appears to be going faster, and time appears to have been speeded up, but it is actually happening. The day still has 24 hours, a year 365 days, but in actual fact the time span as it was in the Piscean Age for each day was slower.

There is now a need for people to see time as a concept in an entirely new way between now and the year 2015 when the complete change will have occurred. In fact, by the year 2015 a new calendar will need to be devised and a new way of telling the time must be used, for if people wish to persist in using the old system, then they will find themselves working and living at a pace which is so fast that they will burn themselves out in about a half of their allotted life span years.

The concept of space as it was known, must also be changed. The Earth is lifting physically. It is not now occupying its same place in space which it occupied before. To allow for this change in matter which Earth is now undergoing, a new meaning of space and matter in relationship to Earth and in Earth’s relationship to the universe must also be devised. It is not a matter of sitting down with computers, mathematicians and scientists working out what they think it could be, but instead, it is necessary to use the psychic mind to tune into the universe, for the universe will give the correct answers to both these definitions for the Aquarian Age which has now dawned, not the mathematicians.

With every new age around the Zodiac, the Earth has responded to the universal rhythm by changing in time and space. It is almost 2,000 years since this happened, so history has not really been recorded of the change that occurred then and mankind has not really known that a change would necessarily take place. When mankind forsook Astrology as the real and only means of measuring time, he also forsook the knowledge that went along with this means of foretelling time and relationships within space. This is the only real and true means by which to deduce a new calender to fit into the New Aquarian Age time.
Not so much to foretell futures - but to tell time as it is, in the present. It must be worked out in relationship to the orbit of the Earth in relationship to the planets at certain times of the year. Time cannot be worked out in any other way - it cannot be compartmentalised into being constant or fixed. Time is relative, time is changing and it changes according to Earth’s orbit.

The Astrologers already have all the equipment they require to work out the calendar needed and the daily time span required. These were built for them by the ancient Atlanteans who in different periods built the most essential buildings, throughout many areas of the world. This knowledge has not been recorded, but will now be explained over a period of time, by the builders who will explain the exact purpose of the Great Pyramid, Baalbeck, Stonehenge, Machu Pichu, all the various mounds and circles, the huge buildings in Aztec and Mayan Civilisations.

These buildings are for a purpose and that purpose is purely Astrological, to be able to determine time by the orbit of the Earth in relation to the planets. At a certain time, light appears in each of these structures on a certain part of the year when Earth’s orbit can be pinpointed exactly. Each place pinpoints a different time of the year, all used in conjunction, that is co-operatively, will Astrologers be able to pinpoint Earth’s time exactly.

They were built directly for this purpose and will now be needed to be used as they never were before - it is the co-operation of all mankind that is needed - no one country has all the knowledge, without working with the other countries. There are other buildings of this nature, miraculously as yet, undiscovered - they must be, to complete the picture. They were built with prior knowledge by the people directly for this purpose. Astrologers must work out the system in the short space of time left to them and mankind must believe them. Astrologers must do it only by addressing their inner knowing and no other way.

Saturn is now on its way back to gain more magnetic forces from the other side of this Universe. Capricorn at the moment is in a very special place where it is beginning to feel like it's all there now - so go get life by the Horns of the goat and take life as it is seen not by what we are told it is to be as the goat leads the ram into some link to gain new life. This is to come in the first two years of the rising sun on the Eastern half of earth, which should be in the next two years on Earth, and after that freedom's dawn will start to emerge. As the first of a new day is to begin in April, then, after Earth turns into new motion all will feel like a new day has begun.

The Earth will then have moved to forward motion, instead of the wobbly motion it now takes. Light begins in this section of the Universe and then seeks to find total life as the famous solar system tell itself it is free sailing from now for thousands or more years, as Earth has just been taken to link to the Golden Age when finally it becomes a free agent again. We have been released from the ties of Nibiru. This came about because we have reached a population growth that has made us too dense to meet Nibiru ever again.

In two years from now a new calendar will have to be made as we will cease to wobble and will head to our own place in the stars, for we have reached maturity and can go on into some new life, hopefully the Feminine golden Age once again.Nibiru was too dense to allow some freedom of choice .

The time we use on Earth is very close to the time in outer space, however we are in a gestation period right now between the olden days time and the “time in opening” time. What most are wanting is what life is like now only better than what it is now. To do so closed minds will not be able to register that all of what they are now, will not be in sync with the first of the asteroid belt to begin to close in on the Earth and enhance our Earth's Stone Age mentality to one such as we never wanted to have before.


Healing must occur, so as to gain your storyland book on what your next life is to cover. the story book link, is what allows yourself access to fealty to clear work using giftedness which yourself will not have used before, because calling on the very highest of the Gods by myself, I was granted the feminine side of the mind of his to use as a template for all females to have, if their energies are compatible with the storyland book that he is now writing for the better understanding of gifts to ourselves - this is the next Pathway on opening to a new life in joy.

The males are so clear of what they are in need of, but this is way out of reach, for they have worked linearly, and the finest possible link to clear minds is through space time continuum. Belief in rich harvests to come in rich gifts to yourself in raising to totality of life, is possible, but not this onorous way being taught by solid form demons, who only live in the right to feed off yourselves.

Unless time is changed, the mind cannot live in the belief of beginning again, but wouldn't living in the Quabala be just as Neverland, and the mindless Bible, which at best is 10% of Truth, or the given recipe to clear someone's mentality by eating tonnes of spinach, or whatever world class make believe is being handed to us now - be a believer in your Soul, and life can continue apace. for mind heads us to nowhere, but your storyland book, is only yours and it is written and healed, by your simple life in joy.

when is this to begin - only if and when people live in balance, harmony and the joy of loving from the heart - thoughts deliver rustic intolerance at best and separation.

ZShawn
7th August 2015, 17:53
your storyland book, is only yours and it is written and healed, by your simple life in joy.



as living pens of light we write our story in the book of lives daily as we follow our inner bliss, our sense of awe and wonder, eager as a child to see and know what amazing discoveries await in this undiscovered, yet oddly familiar terrain.

Aianawa
8th August 2015, 10:44
Love hearing you talk of calendar change Cearna, plenty of natural 13 moon calendars still operating and some new ones ( dreamspell we use ), feel each country or clusters of countries or hemespheres or the world could set a arkeytypal moons calendar or some such up, be nice to throw the Vatican false time cloak off humanity.

Cearna
11th August 2015, 11:00
plenty of natural 13 moon calendars still operating and some new ones ( dreamspell we use ), feel each country or clusters of countries or hemispheres or the world could set a archetypal moons calendar or some such up,.

I understand the need for moon magic, what the first Creator God of Earth is intending to do over the next three years, is for Himself to climb to the heights, so your night time life will live in rivulets of silvery cascades of God's Love. He is neither the solver of what the Earth's Sol or Moon is to be, this will be the gift to you all from their most cherished silver, working gifted daughter whom they still call the baby in arms, but who is now the immense role of Mother Earth herself. she is who sings of love to you with every sound available to you in your bodies. The moon is not this one, it is her lover, it pines to see her in red lights, but till now sees her in orange and says to her, "I hear you, but you are not clear enough for me in red, so please be in red for me, to shine in joy, and I will make love to you, once a year. When I need heal the Earth, so many red halo's appear, and my healing doesn't get through to you, so please clear space lights, and I will fill in your Sol with the blue of my never ending healing, and your Sol will know, I mind you as well".

This is something of the given to your ancient gifted ones, but these words only linger in rocks and soil now, as the final link to Druids was taken life after life, until even they forgot what solves the days and nights of every year. Not every year is the minor life of four, as the Olympics began, no, these inroads to give you in rustic days, the time to plant and so on. Like the Mayans, there is a Being of Earth itself - a minder- you might say, and not only is she living in the role of Earth herself, she decides in rules of time, how the first of all months in her in-road life, is not some one else's idea of a better Sol, she is on her way to shed Light to Sol herself, for Earth began as the mind of God, tried to find a way to move around Heavens Above, he decided it might be nice to sit on something to travel into other places, and eventually made a boat out of two similar balls of rocks, the one on the right side of Him, became the Moon itself, the one on the left of Him, became the entire Solar System - minus the Earth, and he spread Himself between the two, like a catamaran, and this became all of a sudden, Earth's Solar System and Moon all in one, to be later shattered by the Aliens ripping into some of Earth's hull and tearing it to shreds with nukes of atomic particles in the Earth's under carriage, till no life was left on Earth, and she was smaller by far than most planets now, are.

So Earth begins to call her rocks to her. Her size was really large and she is now working in tandem with Moon Goddess (the mother Maker or Creator of Life on Earth) to return small heaps of jointed rocks, into some semblance of what she began as. These are arriving in giant stones, joining together in heaps of jet black obsidian, which soon become embedded in sight of man. there is some mind in each rock, for these are living rocks, and these will mingle as before, to make stone records of giant stone mounds, which man in no wisdom at all simply litters some roads with.

To clear a better endless Sol, of any more interference in its life, the heartless military of the USA, must be made stop sending in nukes to stop life on Sol, because all life Sol sends out, is not close to heat it is torrid inside it, but this is uranium slowly combusting to produce solar light not heat. the final life ending, will not come by jobless military, seeking to give up on wars, it will come only when final life is decided by your own Mother Earth, who simply declares that all living here who have no Soul and do not live in balance, harmony, peace and love, will be removed,by force if necessary, so close to now, many will live in the risk of giving up their lives, unless Sol, the Earth, Moon and solar System Planets are left to live in joy once again. This is when the mind of hers will show all links to her Soul Life, to you all, as she finds dealing in slavery and child killing abhorent, and no more such beastial behaviour will be tolerated by her mind - so cost purity to yourself, for it comes at a price now in life terms on Earth

lcam88
11th August 2015, 13:33
I do not mean to go off topic.

I am not sure the moon is a force that causes growth in love. I cannot see the moon as anything but artificial, a system of control deviating from nature for the ends of whoever engineered the device. I see it as of a design that would do to interfere with love (Oneness and connection).

I even see the moon as a force working against Earth, keeping her energetically suppressed and unable to freely move as she may wish.

In many many fairy tales stories are told of animals and humans communicating with each other. I think that ability to connect was lost around the time the moon appeared.

Upon looking at the moon the first time that I can remember, I have shivers of cold and emptiness. It does not fulfill, enjoin or augment. That is very different from looking at the sun, something hardly bearable to do. When I was a child I tried, and you may see the sun as a pulsing disk, energetically spinning and ever energizing. You can lose yourself in the splendor, even if you look with your eyes closed.

The moon has characteristic geometries of the sun, but only to share in some aspect of its resonance with humanity. But I can't help but look upon the moon and question whether in fact it is out of place. I would like to see the moon disappear completely and I would wager that our connection with Earth and all the plants and animals will reemerge in a way we never knew possible.

Dreamtimer
11th August 2015, 14:36
lcam88, I can't help but worry about what would happen to the earth and nature if the moon was gone. Would that not have a bad effect on the tides and other natural cycles?

lcam88
11th August 2015, 16:30
Perhaps initially natural cycles that have adapted to lunar cycles will need to readapt.

Part of my point is that the need to adapt to the moon in the first place is cause of the disconnected nature of our minds. The re-adaptation will basically be a period where we regrow to the potential that we once where. I liken this to an answer to Aianawa's question: How can everyone waken?

Tides would be a concern depending on _how_ the moon is removed. If you opt to sling it out of orbit in accordance to newtonian models and your elliptical orbit causes closer proximity then yes. If you can avoid the proximity issues then perhaps less so, but consideration for wave interference as the lunar cycle decreases are still of concern. But if you can just make it disappear in one instance then perhaps the tides will continue to oscillate in their given manner until the energies refract away and the energies in tides are absorbed by the earth.

Aianawa
14th August 2015, 07:53
Hi Icam88, for me that is a really out there post, is there any science around this that you know of ?, feel the moon is an integral part of Gaia and humanity but maybe there is something to your way of looking at things.

How would the seasons react to this ?

lcam88
14th August 2015, 14:18
Hi Icam88, for me that is a really out there post, is there any science around this that you know of ?, feel the moon is an integral part of Gaia and humanity but maybe there is something to your way of looking at things.

How would the seasons react to this ?

This is an issue that is quite contentious indeed; it seems that there are too many coincidences about the moon to suppose it is natural in it's current circumstance. An identical aspect ratio to the sun, the lunar orbital and rotational period being identical, the PHI ratio being the neutral point of gravity between earth and the moon...

At one point NASA performed an experiment colliding a probe with the moon; the information that reached me is that the collision caused the moon to ring like a bell. A scientific hypothesis of the moon being a hollow body circulated for some time. However these informations are less valid in my evaluation of the circumstance surrounding the moon, except that it supports an idea of artificiality, because I am dubious about any information which has origin from government programs as they cannot separate their political motives and interests from the information they release.

Likewise, there are stories, of biblical nature or otherwise, that supposes great floods and tidal phenomena at some earlier point of earths history, possibly related to the positioning of the device in orbit...

Once you suppose the artificial nature about the moon, you understand that it serves a purpose that also is artificial. I found my position more in this logic than some application of the scientific method.

But all of that does not preclude your idea that the moon is an integral part of Gaia and humanity in its current form any more than a cancer may also be an integral part of the host body. Integration does not require that benefits necessarily be present in the way we interprete the term. Furthermore, breaking the integration does not necessarily suppose a worsening or deterioration of the present condition. But changing that condition certainly will cause a great awakening in awareness at least insofar as adaptation is required.

Seasons are sensitive to the angle of the our planets rotational axis and not so much the influence of this particular satellite body, at least in accordance to ordinary scientific explanation of earthly seasons. I would conclude that so long as that rotational axis maintains its angle I expect seasons to continue much the way they are.

perzavil
14th August 2015, 14:41
On the moon I defer to the Sophia myth that John Lash has covered in that the sun, moon and earth are a correct and whole system. I don't buy into the moon being false or in any way harmful to the earth.

In regards to thoughts I have always found J. Krishnamurti to be the most thorough in covering it. Thoughts are always of the past .. hence have no part to play in the mystery of the present moment .. the portal that is now.

lcam88
14th August 2015, 15:02
Fair enough. But false ≠ artificial and (! harmful) ≠ beneficial.

John Lash has other interests than dwelling on the nature of the moon. The Myth of the Devine Sophia is a great source of empowerment for humankind in and of itself.

+1 to now.

At some moment when you have a chance, clear your mind and look up into the night sky gazing upon the moon. In that moment (a now) decide if you like the way it makes you feel while you happen before its direct presence. That also is an exact method I used. Is the astronomical body before you something out of place or not? For me the answer is clear.

perzavil
14th August 2015, 17:19
Fair enough. But false ≠ artificial and (! harmful) ≠ beneficial.

John Lash has other interests than dwelling on the nature of the moon. The Myth of the Devine Sophia is a great source of empowerment for humankind in and of itself.

+1 to now.

At some moment when you have a chance, clear your mind and look up into the night sky gazing upon the moon. In that moment (a now) decide if you like the way it makes you feel while you happen before its direct presence. That also is an exact method I used. Is the astronomical body before you something out of place or not? For me the answer is clear.

I will. I wonder though if not a natural placement than how and why is an artificial satellite, earth's moon here?

lcam88
14th August 2015, 19:35
That is a good question, I don't have the answers obviously.

How: well you use Newtonian based physics and the application of force to stabilize the orbit. You use mathematics (geometry...) to calculate the dimensions and engineer the mode of operation...

Why: That is requires understanding of motive.

Bashar (channelled info) suggested that it was because humans where too violent, destructive, loveless and was seen to require a "correction". That scenario nurtures an idea of human inferiority "ab initio" as well as a "parent" of some type that acted to correct. And yet, in another session, Bashar goes on as to the greatness of the predicament of playing the "disconnect game" with creation. Shrug.

The contemplation of your question boils down to motive for the introduction of the artificiality; but also the need to consider: of whom. I don't go so far as to suppose it must be the work of ET's. It may just be the work of humans from another age.

That said, motive boils down to two generalities, 1) for the benefit of some external or specific group, 2) or for the purpose of application of some end or means to earth and/or humanity.

In the first scenario above, whatever happens to humans and earth is secondary to the consideration of benefits for the beneficiary group. Much like we don't much concern ourselves with a milk cow so long as we can milk it. We may make certain efforts to keep the cow producing, like provide more water, and special vaccines and nutrition so that the milk is not compromised. But we otherwise do not concern ourselves much with the cow and how milking it may effect it.

In the second scenario, we are targeted and are the primary concern for the application and maintenance of the conditions. A prison scenario is an easy fit, we expend efforts for certain results. A chicken coop is another scenario, we want growth to be as optimized as possible for some later result, whether that result be proactive or preventative (the bashar scenario being preventative [of our self destruction]).

What is common in both scenarios is "progress" and interference in earth and humanity, so that goals behind the motives may be met. Both scenarios require an effort to "cultivate results" in some way and at some level. Ie we are not progressing of our own innate design, but in accordance to some external factor. That is the artificiality I refer to. Whether it is good or bad depends on how you slice the pie, but neither scenario above are particularly appealing to me.

perzavil
14th August 2015, 21:07
I will give it some thought and of course look at the moon with eyes open.
Not a fan of channeled info generally and as I mentioned in a previous post am resonating with the Sophia Myth which checks a lot of boxes in my mind.
Indeed who would have the reason to place the moon in orbit around the earth .. it does appear to be a prison planet in some regards but this is not particularly because it was designed that way … from the Gnostic interpretation Lash has proposed the Archons are the wardens but in reality they don't have any real power .. only what we give them through the forgetting of the story and our place in it and back to the original post for this thread .. where do a lot of our thoughts come from? The Archons are masters of illusion.

lcam88
14th August 2015, 21:28
I liked bashar stuff more before I ran across his moon audio clip. bsbray has an interesting thread of historic events here on TOT that has the moon being placed in orbit around 9K BC. I participated there transcribing that bashar clip... I like bashar less now because of an apparent inconsistency in the tone relating to humanity that I now sense.

In this post (http://jandeane81.com/threads/7406-Historical-Investigation-Thread-Chronology?p=841932167&viewfull=1#post841932167) in the 4th or 5th paragraph I go into an idea of how the moon may participate in a prison scenario.

To elaborate just a bit on Archontic illusions, it seems they are devoid of actual imagination; it would seem that is the aspect the anthropos shares with the divine; the luminous epinoia as Mr Lash describes.

ZShawn
15th August 2015, 02:15
Not a fan of channeled info myself either, although I do keep an open mind that there may be something of some value in some of it.
This dialogue brought to mind something I had read before regarding the prison system we have currently (as above so below and vice versa..)

Supreme justice Bork (usa) commented once regarding people incarcerated and said this about it, that 100% of those in the system were there voluntarily.....
which reflects on the whole clever sophistry of legalese and wordings and joinder that one can enter into on a contract basis with any of these agents... and thus place one's self into a jurisdiction without knowing really that this has been done.

Reading about the archons comment above, that they only have the power we give them we can see that this is the same on other levels of observable reality.... which does confirm this to a degree, or at the least, makes it more plausible.

perzavil
15th August 2015, 15:02
There is more on the Sophia Myth on this thread : http://jandeane81.com/threads/5307-Sophia-A-Synopsis-of-the-John-Lash-Video?highlight=sophia
Humanity has everything it needs in order to fly the coop so to speak but to borrow from a Neville Brothers song .. " now they got us hypnotized and hysterical "
It would appear that the mind parasite archons have had a great deal of success in infiltrating certain groups of humans at key times.
Preying upon the weaker minded with promises of power …
Which brings me back again to the topic of this thread … thought .. it does have a place in performing certain tasks but all in all we would be much better off if we could turn it off completely and only run it from time to time much like a coffee grinder.

Aianawa
15th August 2015, 23:30
Knowing our thoughts are not our thoughts is indeed important.

lcam88
17th August 2015, 13:46
that 100% of those in the system were there voluntarily

I heard that too. That system does not compel you to make poor decisions indeed.


Knowing our thoughts are not our thoughts is indeed important.

Indeed.

It is the first step to realizing the connected nature of everything. We are all taught since a very early age this notion of possession...

Aianawa
20th August 2015, 10:27
Having had extra mind chatter for myself of late and also some intense thoughts that obviousely were not mine, asking, this happening for any other members at present ?.

Outlander
21st August 2015, 08:41
When you die - and after you've died, the only thing that continues are you're thoughts, I've experienced.

perzavil
21st August 2015, 14:31
I wonder if what you experienced or think you experienced was awareness not your thoughts ..
Or was it a thought mechanism much like the decapitated chicken's running around before finality of physical death.

Aianawa
21st August 2015, 23:35
Such a grand question indeed, imo you go where your mind has previousely created, then yes your previous thoughts will then be your present thoughts in death/going home process. Much more to discuss on the thoughts before, during and after experience I feel.

Outlander
22nd August 2015, 04:08
I wonder if what you experienced or think you experienced was awareness not your thoughts ..
Or was it a thought mechanism much like the decapitated chicken's running around before finality of physical death.
Unlike a decapitated chicken I didn't run around, perhaps because I 'died' in an ambulance on my way to the hospital and as we all know there's not enough room to run around in an ambulance - and I wasn't decapitated.

I've been dead for 6 minutes and they had already given up on me in the hospital, when I 'came back'.

The first thing that happened - in the ambulance, was that I started to feel very cold and I thought to myself: 'This is not good...'

I heard somebody scream that I had to 'stay with him and talk to him' and than I passed away.

Now this was a very familiar feeling, I recognized it as something I'd done many times before - nothing to be scared of.

And I realized that my 'thoughts' just went on.

I suppose your soul is you're awareness - your 'thoughts'.

Aianawa
22nd August 2015, 06:10
Mmmmm as you did not go home as such, did you die, yes heart stopped, so it was near death experience or did it go further for you Outlander ?.

If one could imagine when one is in bad thoughts and story making as such, that it is not your thoughts, one can have an awareness of freedom to then adventure upon or continue to now know now.

Aianawa
24th August 2015, 08:10
Jeez Outlander, you have opened a can of thoughts for me lol, so if you are not your thoughts, the death or going home process is still scripted by previous thoughts, SOOOooo could one do some very interesting scripting, like really outside the square, eggysample > take a trip someplace

lcam88
24th August 2015, 14:11
Outlander:

Wow.

Perhaps the word "thoughts" is causing confusion. May I suggest "experience", as a move towards the concept of "awareness experience"? Would that suggestion be antagonistic to the true idea you mean to share?

To me, thoughts are voluntary mental progressions that are _rational_ in nature, even irrational thoughts. Experiences are only voluntary if you consider being unconscious also as a voluntary choice. Even if you wish to stop time and freeze the "stream" of experience you are obliged to continue on. And even when unconscious, it can be argued that a part of your mind continues to experience.

Dreamtimer
26th August 2015, 00:07
I tend to agree with Outlander. I believe that consciousness and awareness continue after death. Therefore there are still thoughts. It is thought and will then that 'act' when in this state. We think, therefore we still are.

Since, I believe, we quickly gain awareness of all we had forgotten while here, we quickly morph into a consciousness that's much "bigger" than what we are now.

I do not have first hand experience in this.

Aianawa
26th August 2015, 00:13
Hi Dreamtimer, you say > we think < lol Sheldrake territory here, like the brain is a part of the/our mind as such ?, the mind being much more than just the brain, so with the mind known, one is dead ?.

Aianawa
30th August 2015, 09:03
Shows the power of the mind, one believes they will burn in hell, that's where they go ( for a while anyway ), one believes they go to heaven, there they arrive.

Cearna
30th August 2015, 12:10
Shows the power of the mind, one believes they will burn in hell, that's where they go ( for a while anyway ), one believes they go to heaven, there they arrive.

This is many levelled indeed.

1. To go on at all, there must be first of all, an identity to own - if in your life, you did not subscribe to clearing a better life (or have evolved more than when you began your life) you are either sent back to go on some more as you may have been what the Gods call a bent life - like (popeye in his belief of spinach) or you are first in line to come back in the right to be like you were in the life before, and so clearly begin, once again,same people same sort of lifestyle - this is worst of all because you have forced others to come back again, and sometimes it is not right because, they rescued you once before to find out what to do, and in some cases some people have been sent back ten times, to do the one life over again. There is no right to take your Soul back (the mind, is a part of the Soul), unless you have worked in the mind body, spirit, Soul consciousness of life. If this happens (that you are sent back) you will not think of before, nor will you know who you are, you are simply to find out who stood behind you on the road before, for that is who you are - they are left to not only struggle to find a better way to sustain life whilst they wait for you to work it out. You are then the next one to wait behind in the following life, unless you work it out that I must clear my Soul life first, before you go off getting totally life empowered.

2. Soooo if you manage to clear your Soul life first, then you begin to live the life in a better way than you were before - you are then to instigate evolution within, what you were , to become more than that. If you manage to do so, then, you will heal your heart, from blessings in your Soul, and you will return to some place named by some as the homing place, and you will return to clear your Soul life again and evolve to more than you were before. This is to clear your mind of strange heaps of life long misconceptions, which gain you of another working life the same as this one, or some instinct to own your Soul begins in yourself. You will not own your Soul till you are so clear in real life is and what the work involves to get to own a Soul. The Church teaches you all have one, if so, how is that the Earth beings here now, are so lacking in Souls, there are only just one third of the inhabitants of Earth with their own soul, when I first began writing about this type of work 30 years ago it was half the population, so we have less than that now. If your Soul life begins, at your Death, you will give your soul the instruction of "Soul go back now to the home in which I wait to go back again" and you will so go on.

3. When it too, is time to go back to some place better to live on than Earth, a Perfect Master takes you to Nuovo Terra which was created at the behest of real life beings, then you will live in richest life, if humble, as it resembles the olden days of pioneering families, more like oz than the US or Canada, but every one works in open, in the joy of life, the difference being you are on a planet in a part of Eternity, so you are already part way there. Only Perfect Masters can take you through the 5 Gateways and the 7 rings of fire safely, which is why they are called Perfect. To this place you are fully integrated as who you are, and your entire self can go on to this place.

4. The next place is the more loving, it is now when your love on your Soul, is what takes Life on for you. In last time round, there is no lost person any more, so it is then up to Gods to offer you the right to go on to their own Eternal Home or the Perfect Master takes you back to from whence you came.

Dreamtimer
30th August 2015, 12:35
Brain, mind, consciousness...so much overlap. And then there's the whole issue of time. All is. But we (most of us) experience it linearly. I have not looked in depth into NDEs. Most stories I've heard contain the same thread of individual awareness and recall of events and meetings after death. I believe there are vast similarities between the way our souls journey during dreams and how they journey after death.

Dreams are one of our most easily accessed methods of understanding what lies beyond the veil. And thus, mainstream societies have dismissive and demeaning attitudes towards them. They're much too empowering.

If we could truly control where we go and what we do in dreams we would be vastly more wise and powerful. Mainstream societies don't seem to want that. They're afraid. Not just TPTB, regular folks too.

If thought and sound are the foundations of creation, then we certainly endure through our awareness.

So let's all make a beautiful sound! I intend to spend today, as yesterday, singing, laughing, sharing stories with friends, talking to babies and generally making a good noise.

Huzzah!

Aianawa
6th September 2015, 05:38
Much overlap indeed Dreamtimer, the you are not your thoughts and the you are not your mind, within the oneness teachings are worked with separately which I found interesting when first doing mantra's to have clearing as such, feel there is a difference.

Cearna
6th September 2015, 12:10
Much overlap indeed Dreamtimer, the you are not your thoughts and the you are not your mind, within the oneness teachings are worked with separately which I found interesting when first doing mantra's to have clearing as such, feel there is a difference.

The heart is what most think of as the seat of the Soul. It's not, this is similar and so completely diverse. This is not what the Soul Life is, so what are they:-

the heart is the physical machine that drives blood around the body.

The Soul is not visible as a physical entity of life. It is the Spirit of yours that bends to God's Lights, but only if getting told in which direction, you need to live in life. It is totally Light filled, so it is to this you need to address, if life is threatening to end for you, not the fine print on your mind. The Soul lingers, but not attached, at and near the heart, so life extends to the heart if you are to go on on living, and this is the NDE, which is when the soul begins to decide, will it now lift off, or carry on in life.

The mind sits on the end closest to the first clavical wherein rigidity starts to clear bone structure from all other flesh. It lies on its side, so as to clear itself from harm. In emergencies, like sword play, it calls on the bones to settle into, as the few who link to a mind, see it as being on the brain, but there is no connection from the mind to the brain, it is of no importance to the mind, as the fingers of the Soul are the only connection to the Mind, and nothing to do with consciousness which is only stored memories, not yet Soul oriented.

The thoughts over a period of time, make gifts to the Soul, so to not own any, means best of luck, you are on your own till you ask your Soul to bend to your mind, and begin right away, as this is what sits on your sorry thoughts, till life means more to you than being nothing in your Body, mind, soul and Spirit. In which case thought are your Soul, speaking in tongues to you, to let you know, like now, that it is time to move on again.

Aianawa
7th September 2015, 04:19
Hi Cearna, feel like getting all three of the above ( soul/mind/thoughts ) and saying lets move onto DNA and past lives lol, well that comes to mind, and body.

Cearna
7th September 2015, 10:24
DNA is a huge topic and would take me some time to work on, are you just joking or do you have something particular in mind, if so,compile a question for me to work on, for example I know of blue jelly like crystals which were available for us to take in over the time of before and during around 2012 and now red jelly like crystals are becoming available, all of which will alter our present DNA.

Now past lives, I once had a thread on here that explained how to find some of your past lives, especially if you have a partner, it would take a while but I could try to write it out again, as it was a method I found in my memory banks for how to do this, if interested I would try to write down again, but I wouldn't like to go to the trouble if no on is interested, This is not done during a meditation, but comes from using the places in the body where our memories are stored.

Aianawa
7th September 2015, 11:33
New Thread then ?

Cearna
7th September 2015, 11:49
On the past lives process ????????? OR??????????

lcam88
7th September 2015, 17:01
Please excuse my elementary question, Cearna, but what is the "past lives process"?

I don't know that past lives is even something real. The question boils down to whether our essence as individual souls persists to incarnate again as is, of if the soul rejoins with life (the universe itself) and is reborn anew each time as well. I'm inclined to the latter...

Moon device interference aside, why isn't the soul reborn anew each time?

Aianawa
8th September 2015, 04:29
I don't know where/what etc, the DNA side is so so varied imo, just one aspect for myself which has caused heated debate in the past, is our DNA holds our life times ( here on Earth ) within.

So that combines past lives and DNA, off the bat lol.

Cearna
8th September 2015, 06:40
Please excuse my elementary question, Cearna, but what is the "past lives process"?

I don't know that past lives is even something real. The question boils down to whether our essence as individual souls persists to incarnate again as is, of if the soul rejoins with life (the universe itself) and is reborn anew each time as well. I'm inclined to the latter...

Moon device interference aside, why isn't the soul reborn anew each time?


OK, I'll have another go at this, but I refer you back to post #125.

This almost needs a full explanation as well, because there are so many variables.
I will start on a few of them only as it will soon be time to go outside with the 2 dogs.

The first is - if you are some one who has no Soul at all, this is now roughly 2/3 of our population. How can this be? Well, it is not so strange, when you consider the fact that there were only inhabitants of earth here in bygone days - who were the species a) Neanderthal (or the Gods called Hemispheral Man, since they only existed in the Northern Hemisphere b) the species called working man, by the Gods, or your name for them could be Gondwana Man, or scientist called Paleolithic Man or the best name the Behemoth Man (who claims to be the first to have Seer's sight) and c) The endoplasmic Man who since became now known as the end product of man or Home Erectis, who was only in one part of the world to begin with, and that was right here in OZ (Australia), and d) the earliest of all to be indigenous was the First One who is the Creator Goddess and all her offspring, who were first of all like Spirit Incarnate, and these were first to live on Earth - all 300 of the them were the first to live together as one group, near the West coast of Australia in a land called Atlantis by every one now. The had no set type of body, but arrived as a spirit and made a form of their own around them, no two being similar, as it was just whatever they thought they needed. All these people had the right to a Soul, but were not given it, till they could hear, see and feel, and this is the same thing to-day.

At the breaking up of Atlantis by the newly arrived Aliens, whom I will call the Annunaki, the Earth became 10 polar ice caps, then finally fell apart as 10 separate, identical Earths, each becoming right away parallel Universes as you would term them, but this was not so, what they became 10 different types of time zones.

Aianawa
8th September 2015, 07:29
Am happy to let it flow mods, it is all thoughts.

Cearna
8th September 2015, 09:30
The first is - if you are some one who has no Soul at all, this is now roughly 2/3 of our population. How can this be? Well, it is not so strange, when you consider the fact that there were only inhabitants of earth here in bygone days - who were the species a) Neanderthal (or the Gods called Hemispheral Man, since they only existed in the Northern Hemisphere b) the species called working man, by the Gods, or your name for them could be Gondwana Man, or scientist called Paleolithic Man or the best name the Behemoth Man (who claims to be the first to have Seer's sight) and c) The endoplasmic Man who since became now known as the end product of man or Home Erectis, who was only in one part of the world to begin with, and that was right here in OZ (Australia), and d) the earliest of all to be indigenous was the First One who is the Creator Goddess and all her offspring, who were first of all like Spirit Incarnate, and these were first to live on Earth - all 300 of the them were the first to live together as one group, near the West coast of Australia in a land called Atlantis by every one now. The had no set type of body, but arrived as a spirit and made a form of their own around them, no two being similar, as it was just whatever they thought they needed. All these people had the right to a Soul, but were not given it, till they could hear, see and feel, and this is the same thing to-day.

At the breaking up of Atlantis by the newly arrived Aliens, whom I will call the Annunaki, the Earth became 10 polar ice caps, then finally fell apart as 10 separate, identical Earths, each becoming right away parallel Universes as you would term them, but this was not so, what they became 10 different types of time zones.

ContinuedThis Earth we are on, is the least belted about, and from since late last year, some one needed to get this entirely fixed up, this is the only link left to the first or original earth. There no longer exists any other Earth time zones, other than some small portions, so Mother Earth is calling the Gondwana settlements together again.

Now about the Souls again, You work on your experiences, and these give your sensory need to go on more and more. What you are supposed to do is to make life more workable as you solve the Abyss or the Heights to climb to. You don't just experience, you are so close to having an epiphany, but you are not to slide over what this was, it's not clear a wall of ice , or let go of all you went through, at least not before you find a better way to endure or find a way to help others in the same boat, or believe in a Truth is more to the point. This then is your Soul Life, or finding the road ahead for yourself, maybe lessening burdens, or finding tools to work with, so you have a sense of strength maybe or worked out your weaknesses. This is a big part of what you came to do here.

Once you ask to clear a way, sooner said than done, you will give yourself a Soul. Even in right or wrong, to make a link to rightness will get you a Soul. so why am I saying that 2/3 of our world wide population do not have a Soul? This is because, and only why this is, is because the Aliens who came and tore our Earth into 10 Earths, brought with them innumerable slaves on about 10 ships, all of whom never were created by the two first Gods. These risked life secured in rigid bone, that came from dinosaurs, some of which came in ships as well. This means that they never were one of us, there simply is little of the better DNA in their make-up. So their is an entire species on Earth, that cannot re-incarnate, and these became our Royal working Guards, linked together as a breed of their own, and carefully minding the rest, so as not to allow any rogues into the best of our blood lines, and these are what I have termed to be hive minds, but not to be confused with the Draco, who clearly began here in the last Century. When fishing in our sweet pond of life, they first took links to Royals, who by now have really been monsterised,, by giving underlings some ties to them and the richest stopped living as better people, and can no longer live in the justifiable centre stage and are now justifiable to being better than others only in their own minds, so their stories by now are all lies.

The main relationship to this story is that none of these as a species ever were a part of the human race, for their is no pleasing yourself, you either are human or you are not. Any one married into this race at any time in the past history of Earth, simply live in mind alone, for they do not have a Spirit or a Soul and most definitely do not re-incarnate, so the story about their being only one lifetime relates only to these people and not to those who have a Soul and a Spirit.

To be continued :hug:

Cearna
8th September 2015, 12:18
continues De-Ribo-nucleic acid takes life as well as gives it. So before we move on to the situations regarding being able to re-incarnate, with the first 300 owners of Life, their first work was to climb to the heights of Above, there in fact they began to solidify, as their souls gave them the understanding that comes in being Gods. The first of their senses came with the solidification of their Soul. So this is what the full life is to you all, it comes in your understanding of the many Truths of Life.

When in risk of losing this Life forever, your DNA bends in 2, then your supine body, deals in life no more. What tells Gods, that some one never wants to solve Truths of Life, is they are so clearly inept at the thinking process, for your stinking thinking means that your world no longer means anything to you. The bend in the road deviated to little love, and more so, if you are now only wanting to seek revenge, or file insolence upon all life. Independently this is now no longer a choice of yours, to try to find salvation, but now must be non-existence from this death onwards. Thus your DNA stops linking to your Soul, for the DNA is the might of the mind inside the Soul. Once certain to never work it out, the mind disintegrates rapidly, and your Soul Life bends in two, then it lifts off the body, to cling on no more.

The first to claim that I am endless in my need to being in my body, in immortality, hasn't been found yet, but should clear need to immortality be in your mind, then you too will cease to exist, as this is working against someone, who clearly begins to want to be in life, to find what came to see,feel and hear. Some one in this point of life, finding only love of physicality, really fears life so much, that all life is only just physicality, and only needing to find his, then in rigid deafness, this sort of person will close off against, the sight, feelings and seeing of their Soul, and it will heal them no more. for some one injuring their Soul Life to this extent, must have by this time lost all sense of love, for your DNA and your Soul find that only in love can they carry on.

DNA is a measure of your Soul Link of who and what sit s inside this body,so both of them is what Soul Life is to you - increase your evolutionary stance on Truth and your DNA will take a hike so big, it will lie in state on olden day Temple alters, so get to clear bent roads in your life and you will form new strands of DNA.

lcam88
8th September 2015, 13:27
Thanks for the details Cearna, you share a couple of scenarios that are interesting to contemplate.

1. a Cog of the hive, who serves as a type of shade or rhyth occupying a spot on behest of its master, because that is its purpose it doesn't reincarnate, it is merely replaced.

2. an type of life that has deviated from the path towards a meaningfulness so much that a souls persistence with that "life time" can find no more meaning, the soul then leaves so as not to waste its moment.

Is that a fair summary in so few words?

I did go back to read #125 and upon finishing it, I found it asking of more questions. I will have to go reread it now that I've got more context.


What you are supposed to do is to make life more workable as you solve the Abyss or the Heights to climb to. You don't just experience, you are so close to having an epiphany, but you are not to slide over what this was, it's not clear a wall of ice , or let go of all you went through, at least not before you find a better way to endure or find a way to help others in the same boat, or believe in a Truth is more to the point.

I enjoy puzzles, over all.

I bolded the part that most resonates with me. The enduring and help_others_in_the_same_boat do too but perhaps not quite as much.

Truth points to itself. There is no requirement to believe in it, at least in the sense that belief implies acceptance without solid evidence. Presumptions should be challenged wherever one may find them. To suppose that belief in the truth is a requirement is to start from a place where truth is refuted; I would contend that everyone (including the two classes of people above) start from a place accepting truth, then maybe reject or distort it as the meaning of life degrades (symmetry of a sort). IMO But besides the nuance or technicality, which might be more a linguistics issue than anything else, I think we are in agreement.

In the spirit of all this, can this goal of "solve the Abyss or the Heights to climb to" be further clarified? How does it fit into an experience all of us have had at least as a child, the dull moment of silent agony as our hearts desired to "go and play" while our parents require of us moments to perform "meaningless" routine? Is there some other way to describe the meaning of our purpose?

EDIT

Cearna, do you think a dialog format like this is distracting or inappropriate in some way?

Aianawa
9th September 2015, 01:04
First I feel, for oneself, to know source of thought/s.

Cearna
9th September 2015, 06:09
EDIT

Cearna, do you think a dialog format like this is distracting or inappropriate in some way?[



I'll get to your other words later, but for the moment, I have no worries about interfering in the flow to discuss what has already been said. the only difficulty might be the picking up of the original story, before it was interrupted. However, the best time to discuss and confer, is at the time it is most fresh in your mind, and if it needs further explanation to understand the earlier part, then better to do so, before any more is added to the story. I suppose I have a bit of a complex about the length of the story, because, it appears that if it looks too long people will not bother to read it at all, because we have become used to watching videos. I don't watch videos, mainly because of my lack of computer literacy, and also I have been a school teacher used to writing notes from the time I was 18 till I was 75, just one year ago, and mys sense of it is, you cannot half tell how it is, but I compromise and hope like crazy some one will come on in an ask those extra bits that I may not have covered in a manner I might have wanted to, because of this idea that people have that they can find everything on google or youtube. So please be my guest, lets get this sorted out for you as you need, we never know who else wanted to ask just what you do, and our guests are many,on TOT, who read but do not join. My only problem is that I found out on Monday that I have a carpel tunnel which is beginning to give me pain, as a result of all those long years of typing, so lets get these questions done before the doctor thinks about an operation to fix it, or maybe both hands. :love:

Cearna
9th September 2015, 09:41
In the spirit of all this, can this goal of "solve the Abyss or the Heights to climb to" be further clarified? How does it fit into an experience all of us have had at least as a child, the dull moment of silent agony as our hearts desired to "go and play" while our parents require of us moments to perform "meaningless" routine? Is there some other way to describe the meaning of our purpose?


Since I am able to talk with my soul, I think I will ask it what it was expecting me to do/find/experience or flounder through.

Soul is speaking this to me: When in the job of being with joint responsibility, there was a time, when more than one other was here in the role of a guest and there requirements for me was to solve who I was first, but the body had sorted that out for herself before these guests arrived. They were in fact meaning to link me to another some one so that he would be able to re-claim his right to life back again. He was not allowed to be in Life as yet, so clearly a better working link to me was needed. His time never was to come to live on Earth as he was a ghost of the past, and a ritual haunter of the people scheduled to be going back home. colleen, in her right to know, was so close to being taken over by this one, and she became noticeably upset, so he invested some mind control on both her and her spouse. He didn't stop her first of all, but took life from her, in her efforts to prevent worth being stolen from her. She is now solid in all dealings with ghosts and D jinn, and simply links to me, to tell her role is never to be so close as that again, to being taken over, because if a role is taken over by Demons, Djinn or Ghosts, then your immunity to claim your sovereignty is given to the one who has claimed your role. It took living in the right to own her Soul Life, over what seems like the worst time in her life to me, for this ghost wanted not just her identity, but her Soul and Spirit as well and was prepared to go to any lengths to achieve them, for she was guaranteed of Going Home at the end of this life. Now at this time in her soul Life, she intervened in the first clear being who simply stopped over her bed, till her sleep got so impaired that her days were nearly nightmares to her. She fought this one earlier in her life when trying to solve how to squash the many able, needy spirits of darkness, in Newcastle since the days of government hitting Aborigines, till all were dead. The Aboriginals had used chants to never let these government men come back into a body again, so her gift to go back home, was so inviting to them. Not till she left this place was she free to live in her own Soul Life. Being there was giving her illness after illness, as all tried to kill her. This is what to me was, my time of the Abyss, her own self had to endure this for about 38 years, because of the ill health of her mother, but she left Newcastle and has not returned, thus giving release from a being who was responsible for her death in that older time. This is what the first link to some one else, can cause some one who is not to give in or so it seems, because all links to clear herself, was also at the same time being ghost ridden, by a ghost who simply lived in her need to live, this one went back to the 12th Century, and came in to spoil her life, in every life after that, and only because she helped some one else. so this Abyss had dogged her most of her life. It had to be completed or I could not let her go Home regardless of her right to go Home other wise. To claim I need not do so, is totally linked to clear a Pathway to go on back.

This long story is to say, no matter what you believe is your right to live by, and to choose as you wish, this is so false as because the Pathway, that is not cleared as you go simply forges a bend in the road which you must see to before your own Soul can allow you to go on to a next stage in the then cleared Pathway.

Must stop here. Do you need an example of climbing the heights as well, it is no problem, just a matter of whether you wish to hear more of how experiences overlap and forge your next stage of your life.

lcam88
9th September 2015, 15:38
Thanks.

lcam88
10th September 2015, 17:36
Since I am able to talk with my soul, I think I will ask it what it was expecting me to do/find/experience or flounder through.

Soul is speaking this to me: When in the job of being with joint responsibility, there was a time, when more than one other was here in the role of a guest and there requirements for me was to solve who I was first, but the body had sorted that out for herself before these guests arrived. They were in fact meaning to link me to another some one so that he would be able to re-claim his right to life back again. He was not allowed to be in Life as yet, so clearly a better working link to me was needed. His time never was to come to live on Earth as he was a ghost of the past, and a ritual haunter of the people scheduled to be going back home. colleen, in her right to know, was so close to being taken over by this one, and she became noticeably upset, so he invested some mind control on both her and her spouse. He didn't stop her first of all, but took life from her, in her efforts to prevent worth being stolen from her. She is now solid in all dealings with ghosts and D jinn, and simply links to me, to tell her role is never to be so close as that again, to being taken over, because if a role is taken over by Demons, Djinn or Ghosts, then your immunity to claim your sovereignty is given to the one who has claimed your role. It took living in the right to own her Soul Life, over what seems like the worst time in her life to me, for this ghost wanted not just her identity, but her Soul and Spirit as well and was prepared to go to any lengths to achieve them, for she was guaranteed of Going Home at the end of this life. Now at this time in her soul Life, she intervened in the first clear being who simply stopped over her bed, till her sleep got so impaired that her days were nearly nightmares to her. She fought this one earlier in her life when trying to solve how to squash the many able, needy spirits of darkness, in Newcastle since the days of government hitting Aborigines, till all were dead. The Aboriginals had used chants to never let these government men come back into a body again, so her gift to go back home, was so inviting to them. Not till she left this place was she free to live in her own Soul Life. Being there was giving her illness after illness, as all tried to kill her. This is what to me was, my time of the Abyss, her own self had to endure this for about 38 years, because of the ill health of her mother, but she left Newcastle and has not returned, thus giving release from a being who was responsible for her death in that older time. This is what the first link to some one else, can cause some one who is not to give in or so it seems, because all links to clear herself, was also at the same time being ghost ridden, by a ghost who simply lived in her need to live, this one went back to the 12th Century, and came in to spoil her life, in every life after that, and only because she helped some one else. so this Abyss had dogged her most of her life. It had to be completed or I could not let her go Home regardless of her right to go Home other wise. To claim I need not do so, is totally linked to clear a Pathway to go on back.

This long story is to say, no matter what you believe is your right to live by, and to choose as you wish, this is so false as because the Pathway, that is not cleared as you go simply forges a bend in the road which you must see to before your own Soul can allow you to go on to a next stage in the then cleared Pathway.

Must stop here. Do you need an example of climbing the heights as well, it is no problem, just a matter of whether you wish to hear more of how experiences overlap and forge your next stage of your life.

I has imagined Abyss to be a metaphorical context, as it is indeed. Your answer is very "deep" (for lack of a better word).

Please do give an example of climbing the heights as well.

Cearna
12th September 2015, 05:29
The Heights to climb example only:-

My soul telling me this, once again

My need contained in it, the final link to Godhood, not for me to become one; but for me to experience the nature of what they are and do, and how they exist to live in a role of their own as well. This is not seen in most of your lives, but was simply added to my own story book, when Colleen sought to mend her ways. The mind of hers had been in so much turmoil, as she is an empath, and always knew what others required of her, and lifted only to their needs, not what she might have been capable of achieving for herself. To do this she sacrificed her her own needs to self explore, until it nearly cost her own life.

Solving who she was now, meant android behaviour could be all she need do, in order to see to her mothers needs instead of her own. This is now solved, so I won't go into this. The finding of Guests ( Demons) on her own home turf, meant that she had to strengthen her own need to live in harmony, or need to kill life off. She chose to claim I am more than you are, and showed strength of will, so I was able to lift the fears off her, and in finding no real fears left, the Soul Keeper arrived to clear her of endless fears, still to come otherwise, for some one needing guests to come on in, must strengthen themselves, or be no use to themselves.

Willing now to change her world about, the Soul Keeper allowed this world one more Perfect Master. And so I became more than I was before. The only justification, for this was strength of will, for outside the Sat Sangi world of the Pathway of the Saints, nothing is told, for never will they need to deal in life. In the fitting link of a better amount and loving world, no one else would see the giftedness of a master to know what you are in need of, as the best thing that ever happened to you. This work is some one else's to do soon I hope.

Sounds of giving are still not heard, by the finishing ones who need to clear themselves to hear the word of God. In our sorrowing, from never being in sight of God, for so many are so far away, but Colleen began to channel elevated Gods from Above, because calling on the right to be able to Walk with God, her own sonics began to vibrate, (in some risk to herself), and she began to send out the Shabd (or sounds of God), and thus connected fully to the Lord Above, who was the God of her own existence from the beginning.

Think something is wrong in this story? Many have since telling this story to some one else, she has been so told off by so many of you all, for simply asking if you would like to go on home – rejection – this is the story of a better solution, to your being able to return to your own place from whence you came, no strings no having to do anything special, just saying “yes”, and so soon every one else, your storyland Earth, will have to be closed off, as you have worked on self, not to claim your love of all else, and you are self ending as well, as willing not to go on back, becomes self defeating of all you've worked for.

Remember please, I am Colleen's soul answering this, not the body of Colleen, this is quite different.

Aianawa
14th September 2015, 06:15
Imagine, no thoughts, how would the world work as such ?.

lcam88
14th September 2015, 16:20
The Heights to climb example only:-

My soul telling me this, once again

My need contained in it, the final link to Godhood, not for me to become one; but for me to experience the nature of what they are and do, and how they exist to live in a role of their own as well. This is not seen in most of your lives, but was simply added to my own story book, when Colleen sought to mend her ways. The mind of hers had been in so much turmoil, as she is an empath, and always knew what others required of her, and lifted only to their needs, not what she might have been capable of achieving for herself. To do this she sacrificed her her own needs to self explore, until it nearly cost her own life.


Solving who she was now, meant android behaviour could be all she need do, in order to see to her mothers needs instead of her own. This is now solved, so I won't go into this. The finding of Guests ( Demons) on her own home turf, meant that she had to strengthen her own need to live in harmony, or need to kill life off. She chose to claim I am more than you are, and showed strength of will, so I was able to lift the fears off her, and in finding no real fears left, the Soul Keeper arrived to clear her of endless fears, still to come otherwise, for some one needing guests to come on in, must strengthen themselves, or be no use to themselves.



Willing now to change her world about, the Soul Keeper allowed this world one more Perfect Master. And so I became more than I was before. The only justification, for this was strength of will, for outside the Sat Sangi world of the Pathway of the Saints, nothing is told, for never will they need to deal in life. In the fitting link of a better amount and loving world, no one else would see the giftedness of a master to know what you are in need of, as the best thing that ever happened to you. This work is some one else's to do soon I hope.



Sounds of giving are still not heard, by the finishing ones who need to clear themselves to hear the word of God. In our sorrowing, from never being in sight of God, for so many are so far away, but Colleen began to channel elevated Gods from Above, because calling on the right to be able to Walk with God, her own sonics began to vibrate, (in some risk to herself), and she began to send out the Shabd (or sounds of God), and thus connected fully to the Lord Above, who was the God of her own existence from the beginning.



Think something is wrong in this story? Many have since telling this story to some one else, she has been so told off by so many of you all, for simply asking if you would like to go on home – rejection – this is the story of a better solution, to your being able to return to your own place from whence you came, no strings no having to do anything special, just saying “yes”, and so soon every one else, your storyland Earth, will have to be closed off, as you have worked on self, not to claim your love of all else, and you are self ending as well, as willing not to go on back, becomes self defeating of all you've worked for.

Remember please, I am Colleen's soul answering this, not the body of Colleen, this is quite different.

I so enjoy your examples Cearna. Thank you for sharing.

In reference to the bold part above, I comment:

Why is earth not home? Why the continuation of the idea that we are not already at home here on Earth? Why this constant push that we should abandon Mother Earth, even as she is ill, rather than remain here to help her heal?

Aianawa
15th September 2015, 04:01
One could say, way back as such, we created this Earth, through interconnection with the all, imo.

Aianawa
12th October 2015, 06:59
Oh dear oh dear, what a tough weekend it was, in my mind, negative thoughts aplenty, lol I thought those days were gone, Pah, the day started like a big pile of poo's, then something clicked, thank god, I said to myself, the mind is not my mind, then soon, my thoughts are not my thoughts, so so beautifullll to see the lustre of plant colours and smell the ocean again.

Hell is definitely of the mind.

lcam88
13th October 2015, 15:45
Hell is definitely of the mind.

... is certainly introduced into the mind... You need to have faith that it may exist.


...then something clicked, thank god, I said to myself, the mind is not my mind, then soon,my thoughts are not my thoughts, so so beautifullll to see the lustre of plant colours and smell the ocean again.

Or maybe the mind is your mind, and the thoughts are your thoughts. It depends on who you know yourself to be, I suppose.

Knowing thyself, it seems, is a requisite to all knowing in general.

Are you one who would shy away from responsibility, who would externalize it and surrender control to forces you accept to be beyond your reach? If so, then indeed your mind is, perhaps, not your mind.

Or are you one who conspires to dominate the forces about you that are just beyond your reach? Do you seek to push the envelope of your mind to include more and more? To know what you do not yet know, to perfect performance in a domain where you may only train, to perceive and recognize what you now may only glimpse? If so, then perhaps your mind is more than merely your mind, your thoughts are more than just your thoughts.

Is the cup is half full, or half empty, and you have more to do with that than god, just you.

Aianawa
14th October 2015, 13:06
Great questions, guided lots of feelings within me, thankyou.

Aianawa
15th October 2015, 03:46
... is certainly introduced into the mind... You need to have faith that it may exist.



Or maybe the mind is your mind, and the thoughts are your thoughts. It depends on who you know yourself to be, I suppose.

Knowing thyself, it seems, is a requisite to all knowing in general.

Are you one who would shy away from responsibility, who would externalize it and surrender control to forces you accept to be beyond your reach? If so, then indeed your mind is, perhaps, not your mind.

Or are you one who conspires to dominate the forces about you that are just beyond your reach? Do you seek to push the envelope of your mind to include more and more? To know what you do not yet know, to perfect performance in a domain where you may only train, to perceive and recognize what you now may only glimpse? If so, then perhaps your mind is more than merely your mind, your thoughts are more than just your thoughts.

Is the cup is half full, or half empty, and you have more to do with that than god, just you.

Yes, hell exists upon my decisions.

Well the thoughts are coming from me, sure, but not mine, at least in the beginning.

Now for your xlent questions, thanks again. I say xlent because I had to ponder, as my feelings reading them were getting me to go through some experiences of late, was I indeed in control as such or being controlled by myself externalizing or not decision making or not allowing, was I still using my knowing, my feelings. Which led to am I balanced at present which led to no. Got a massage and acupuncture session today and gave myself a good zap also, now feel a massive deal better and doing a 3 to 5 day faste next week.

lcam88
15th October 2015, 14:47
:)

Aianawa, sometime our perspective (and decisions) is/are the only difference between a good and a bad day. I'm happy to know of your ponderings.

Being in control may not mean having actual control (same analogy as the thought not being your thoughts or the thoughts not being just your thoughts).

Maybe releasing control is an interesting experience to have too?

Deciding may not mean actually making a real decision. This is a long and drawn out pondering of mine; I think as human beings, we actually make very very few real decisions.

If you have a habit or predispositions for certain preferences and behaviors, acts that arise from those origins are not actual decisions, are they? They have been programmed as part of your why (your way that is already defined or affixed). You will likely never choose to do something you do not "like" when faced with a better alternative. Right?

That would mean: the only time we really make a decision is when we are faced with options and don't know which is more aligned with our preferences. Right?

I contend those moments are few and far between. Incidentally, I've decided this aspect that I found within me, is the reason perspective is so important. Is it not the case that the way we interpret our sensory inputs and the way we choose to rationalize our interpretations define the "input parameters" from which habit, behavior and preference then work as routines?

Control is just being able to predict the effects of causes we perceive and act upon (whether out of habit, behavior or some heuristic we have refined over time).

Deciding mostly involves determining aspects of what we perceive with what we know to calculate which "branch" we prefer and then acting in accordance. But that is not really deciding, it is an application of predefined values (acquired from childhood till now) and calculation and application of logic or illogic to some conclusion that is known to lead to pleasure and is not too painful. Can it be reasoned that this type of "decision" making is actually pre-defined? That our current state [of being], including our preferences, inherently define probability trees (destiny) where our way/path is already clear?

The only thing that is unclear is what the environment around us may present to our experience. But modern society has already established a lot of control over this environment with social norms and routines and social order. Right?

Can it indeed be, that the only moments our probability tree offers a real decision, is when we find ourselves undecided about options we face [and our preferences and values do not interfere with our choice, no pain or pleasure associations...], and where those options are not already routine or habit? To me, that indeed is perspective as to how and why our mind is not just our mind, and our thoughts are not merely our thoughts...

Deciding to tweak my views perspectives is a very interesting decision to me. But I can never truly know if it will make any real difference; to merely make a change is really not a good enough reason... or is it? Hell is not knowing that you can even decide.

ADDENDUM

Perhaps we have bad days because a part of us, that part which is more connected to the universe and that we are not consciously aware of, is trying to shake us of our habits, behaviors and preferences.

It then is fitting to see mood swings as an opportunity, rather than an inconvenience.

Aianawa
16th October 2015, 03:51
:)

Aianawa, sometime our perspective (and decisions) is/are the only difference between a good and a bad day. I'm happy to know of your ponderings.

If one is having a bad day, imo it has been a thought or thoughts that bought this about, so it comes down to knowing one can change their thoughts once they know what bought about the thought/s, hence meditation, reflecting, knowing and intuition being important.

Being in control may not mean having actual control (same analogy as the thought not being your thoughts or the thoughts not being just your thoughts).

Maybe releasing control is an interesting experience to have too?

The control being the fear aspect of not being in control, not knowing ?.

Deciding may not mean actually making a real decision. This is a long and drawn out pondering of mine; I think as human beings, we actually make very very few real decisions.

If you have a habit or predispositions for certain preferences and behaviors, acts that arise from those origins are not actual decisions, are they? They have been programmed as part of your why (your way that is already defined or affixed). You will likely never choose to do something you do not "like" when faced with a better alternative. Right?

Hence the importance being of what we do not know as to what we know.

That would mean: the only time we really make a decision is when we are faced with options and don't know which is more aligned with our preferences. Right?

Yes, feelings, knowing, intuition or even asking for outside help, or lol like getting gifted it by yourself on a forum, ta again.

I contend those moments are few and far between. Incidentally, I've decided this aspect that I found within me, is the reason perspective is so important. Is it not the case that the way we interpret our sensory inputs and the way we choose to rationalize our interpretations define the "input parameters" from which habit, behavior and preference then work as routines?

Yes and if one has had shamanistic and/or sychronicity training, especially experiencial training, little but being is needed.

Control is just being able to predict the effects of causes we perceive and act upon (whether out of habit, behavior or some heuristic we have refined over time).

Feel it is more than just prediction, the fear, fear of, fear for, the fear or love energy for myself as the root of all feelings is and has been strong for me, probably through my first spiritual book being book 1, Conversations With God.

Deciding mostly involves determining aspects of what we perceive with what we know to calculate which "branch" we prefer and then acting in accordance. But that is not really deciding, it is an application of predefined values (acquired from childhood till now) and calculation and application of logic or illogic to some conclusion that is known to lead to pleasure and is not too painful. Can it be reasoned that this type of "decision" making is actually pre-defined? That our current state [of being], including our preferences, inherently define probability trees (destiny) where our way/path is already clear?

Yes. Already clear ?.

The only thing that is unclear is what the environment around us may present to our experience. But modern society has already established a lot of control over this environment with social norms and routines and social order. Right?

Very much so.

Can it indeed be, that the only moments our probability tree offers a real decision, is when we find ourselves undecided about options we face [and our preferences and values do not interfere with our choice, no pain or pleasure associations...], and where those options are not already routine or habit? To me, that indeed is perspective as to how and why our mind is not just our mind, and our thoughts are not merely our thoughts...

This imo totally revolves around where one's mind is at, not known, known or in between somewhere and there is so so many nowadays that have their minds known to a high degree and the amount in between at present is huge huge imo.

Deciding to tweak my views perspectives is a very interesting decision to me. But I can never truly know if it will make any real difference; to merely make a change is really not a good enough reason... or is it? Hell is not knowing that you can even decide.

Agree, a positive mind is a great start and very difficult.

ADDENDUM

Perhaps we have bad days because a part of us, that part which is more connected to the universe and that we are not consciously aware of, is trying to shake us of our habits, behaviors and preferences.

It then is fitting to see mood swings as an opportunity, rather than an inconvenience.

Totally agree, it is a shocker when you think those days are over though, i forgot there is always the next thing as such.

Ooopps, stuffed the quote thingy up.

Aianawa
19th October 2015, 03:12
Sorry about the quote reply being done incorrectly Icam88.

As I observe the macro-micro the best I am able, and see and often feel these happening along differing now earth timelines, I am interested in your replies, one thing that came to me on rereading the above post was this > Yes and if one has had shamanistic and/or sychronicity training, especially experiencial training, little but being is needed. < this in hindsight now, feels different, because once one has lived synchronistically, one then knows when they are not in sinc as such.

lcam88
19th October 2015, 13:20
Thanks for your replies and interesting thoughts Aianawa. No problem with the quoting issues. I don't understand what you meant with the following


...it is a shocker when you think those days are over though...

I'm also trying to grasp what you meant in your later reply. Do you mean to say that once you are shown the way, or aimed, you simply need only be? I could wholeheartedly agree with that.


...once one has lived synchronistically, one then knows when they are not in sinc as such.

:)

The other half of the coin once you realize your "programming" has covered most "choices", is recognizing when a choice is before you. Ignoring and overlooking are always the options taken when opportunities are missed. And there are a few things you can do to open up choices.

If you understand god to exist (that word is terrible since it has so much of a loaded meaning, perhaps to clear up misunderstandings consider my reference when using the term, to be referencing a pure act, or action, reference to a verb that does not require a subject matter associated with it). Anyway, if you understand god and it is clear he/she/it is pure action, energy and perhaps knowledge in a sense that information is being experienced, acts of god is everything that happens when we are not paying attention or willfully putting things into motion. Acts of god would be everything that coincides with our experience.

Coincidence is not random any more than we are random.

And even if you do not find yourself with new choices (as per being guided by your preference and level of excitement etc.) Perhaps at least recognizing and surfing waves of coincidence helps us insofar as short-sightedness may be helped. Our views and perceptions need not share rational or rhyme with the mundane; living in the moment cannot be surpassed by any amount of contemplation on the past in that endless quest of dwelling on the future.

In that sense at least I understand intuition to be superior to rational and logic insofar as I can allow the coincident to fill my experience. That is something more difficult to do if we grasp and adhere strongly to the idea that we actually control our lives, that we actually make choices. It is easier to let things go of things if we already recognize the level of control we have is limited. This very notion has strong parallels with meditation; it is meditation while living life moment to moment.

Does that fit your idea of sychronicity?

Of course we recognize that we are responsible for things we agree to and engage in... I'm not advocating breaking social contract or degenerating into an inert being that permits chaos in ones midst. Perhaps that is being _out_of_sinc_ (as you put it above). I'm only referring to how a moment can be experienced.

Is this letting "Jesus take the wheel"? Yes and no. No because these choices are not made with the idea of something external saving you from your predicament. It is you accepting your predicament as something that does not require saving. Right?

Aianawa
19th October 2015, 21:42
Many yes's Icam88 and well laid out by you imo with the only ingrediant missing being knowing and the a wee bit unsure of how you define or mean >

In that sense at least I understand intuition to be superior to rational and logic insofar as I can allow the coincident to fill my experience. That is something more difficult to do if we grasp and adhere strongly to the idea that we actually control our lives, that we actually make choices. It is easier to let things go of things if we already recognize the level of control we have is limited. This very notion has strong parallels with meditation; it is meditation while living life moment to moment.


Once we know we are in control of the/our/micro, we then have the creation skills within the macro, creating and being are standard, some may say then blessed by the universe/god or your higher fractuals. Yes one's life being a meditation as such, informed by both the micro and macro.

lcam88
20th October 2015, 15:52
Once we know we are in control of the/our/micro, we then have the creation skills within the macro, creating and being are standard, some may say then blessed by the universe/god or your higher fractuals. Yes one's life being a meditation as such, informed by both the micro and macro.

Control, is a complete illusion. I like the Star-Wars "The Force idea" as a metaphor about what control is. "It guides you, but it also obeys your command." Command, in that phrase being a weak word, better substituted by will. And indeed in our attempts to be in control of thing around us, we are guided by norms and heuristics so that we may be ready when then application of our energies can set thing to the desired path.

The fact of life is that it is always spontaneous, even when we apply our force of will and try to control it. Some people are more in "control" of their instances than others.

Here is why I'm of the position that intuition is superior to logic and rational.

Logic and rational are important for survival, we learn to survive and we have the tools in our grasp to apply our intelligence to improve our chances of continuing life beyond what instinct alone may offer.

But once you see that life is more than just survival, why use the same tools we are quipped with for survival, for everything else? Insofar as I'm saying, in the above postings, that logic and rational are part of the apparatus that [pre]defines many choices (by way of preferences, habits and behavior), I'm also saying that intuition is a way by which we may find the freedom not to be required to apply our [predefined] choice. (as by way of the logic and rational)

That it is closer to the nature of pure spontaneous action, it is also closer to a moment of pure creation, without being impeded by the baggage that is only there for survival purposes. Trying to control creation is indeed the biggest obstacle to learning the creative skills, it would seem. Control, is a complete illusion...

Does that help?

And please let me know where I am wrong. You see, I'm an amateur at all of this.

Aianawa
21st October 2015, 03:34
As you said it yourself > desired path <, the desired path is not ones own but, the what is, to then be in accordance with, hence knowing the micro then macro, outside of this, is an/the illusion imo.

Do you see/feel, spontaneous as synchronicity or being with/in synchronicty ?.

Imo intuition has levels as ones own mind becomes known, in time as levels progress, logic tunes with intuition.

I feel you may be incorrect only in an experiencial way, seeing everything happening around you as spontaneous creation and perfect, for one to then know the universe/god/way etc is for you.

lcam88
21st October 2015, 12:58
I like your input. Especially about intuition having levels. We all tend to view our own knowledge and experience in terms of levels as well.

Perhaps it is worth considering that experiential ways can be quite diverse as individuals are diverse. <shrug/>

Aianawa
22nd October 2015, 03:47
Lol Icam88, perhaps, I have a saying for myself, it is not what I know about myself that is important, it is what I do not know about myself that is important, the inherited traits etc, the unknown or forgotten trauma's etc, to know these sincerely, only my feelings can sometimes let me know.

Aianawa
23rd October 2015, 03:20
A wee pondering > I/you/we are not our feelings <, feelings inform us, make us aware unless not heeded of course, feelings may come from past experience but one person may react totally different to another, musings.

Aianawa
24th October 2015, 19:53
All effort of the mind is to protect something that is not there, damn lol

lcam88
26th October 2015, 01:13
Lol Icam88, perhaps, I have a saying for myself, it is not what I know about myself that is important, it is what I do not know about myself that is important, the inherited traits etc, the unknown or forgotten trauma's etc, to know these sincerely, only my feelings can sometimes let me know.

Traumas, dear Aianawa, are never forgotten. Knowing how and when they surface is part of knowing who you are.


wee pondering > I/you/we are not our feelings <, feelings inform us, make us aware unless not heeded of course, feelings may come from past experience but one person may react totally different to another, musings.

:) half full or half empty?

In my pondering of not being my feeling, I've never let the idea that our view of being separate from the universe requires equal consideration. Feelings seem to be a nice interface with everything that "we are not". Heeding the course is about trusting yourself (that part that is not you).


All effort of the mind is to protect something that is not there, damn lol

The micro, ego and the requirement to keep functioning or survive. Queue traumas and how that effects you especially on this level.

Letting go of that baggage and learning the macro is partially about unlearning to survive.

Aianawa
27th October 2015, 04:33
Traumas, dear Aianawa, are never forgotten. Knowing how and when they surface is part of knowing who you are.

Agreed and who you are not lol.


:) half full or half empty?

Yes, perception, mind known, full and overflowing ( to others ) glass.

In my pondering of not being my feeling, I've never let the idea that our view of being separate from the universe requires equal consideration. Feelings seem to be a nice interface with everything that "we are not". Heeding the course is about trusting yourself (that part that is not you).

One's inate ?, one's connection with the way/devine/synchronicity ?.



The micro, ego and the requirement to keep functioning or survive. Queue traumas and how that effects you especially on this level.

Letting go of that baggage and learning the macro is partially about unlearning to survive.

Yes and maybe understanding if one is existing or living as such.

The last twenty - thirty mins of this vid imo shows dual macro and micro plus male and female.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Y2-clTEcI

lcam88
27th October 2015, 13:29
Ralph is a champ.

Aianawa
28th October 2015, 04:54
Yes indeed, he talks about what was being shut down in the 50's and 60's, how far ahead tptW were, lends some credibility to some whistleblower testimony over the last twenty years imo, absolutely love his talk around synchronicity, the now and how he uses it, even way back when when it was so difficult not to stand out doing so.

lcam88
29th October 2015, 13:01
Somehow, synchronicity seems to be innate in his being; I think it is more likely that he would be flabbergasted by displays of ineptitude in his midst, if he could care, than feel awkward about standing out. I say "if he could care" because I'm not 100% sure he even lives in the same place as everyone else.

In fact, it was upon finding a youtube video about his endeavors that lead me to finding this forum; he as at the beginning of my quests along the unconventional. As I reflect on what's happened, its clear to me evermore that what I seek cannot be seen, heard, touched tasted or smelled. It must come from within. And so here I am, exchanging these ideas with you.

Seeking is something I am unlearning to do; it seems that is the only why.

Aianawa
2nd November 2015, 12:22
So, your seeking the state of no thought ?, or being in the now permanently as such ?.

lcam88
3rd November 2015, 13:48
So, your seeking the state of no thought ?, or being in the now permanently as such ?.

I'm not sure "no thought" properly describes it. There is thought, always, except that it does not need to drown out what else there is too.

We are permanently in the now whether we would accept it or not. There really is nothing to seek, in that sense, either.

The only thing we can do is what we are already doing; it would even be a fallacy to suggest we even choose what we do. And yet we do. Reference frames, gyroscopic motion, but do you notice it?

Ralph seems to be in a place where he certainly does notice. It is right there in front of all of us. It seem the more you try to notice, the more it eludes, perhaps because you start focusing on what you already do notice, rather than what has yet to be noticed. Perhaps because our force of will to make something happen creates "noise".

I have the flu today, I see it as an excellent opportunity to see if the bug might help me stumble on something new. I don't get sick often, but when it does happen, I really look forward to the moments and what may emerge. Just need to let myself go and float wherever I may...

Aianawa
4th November 2015, 17:17
I'm not sure "no thought" properly describes it. There is thought, always, except that it does not need to drown out what else there is too.

We are permanently in the now whether we would accept it or not. There really is nothing to seek, in that sense, either.

The only thing we can do is what we are already doing; it would even be a fallacy to suggest we even choose what we do. And yet we do. Reference frames, gyroscopic motion, but do you notice it?

Ralph seems to be in a place where he certainly does notice. It is right there in front of all of us. It seem the more you try to notice, the more it eludes, perhaps because you start focusing on what you already do notice, rather than what has yet to be noticed. Perhaps because our force of will to make something happen creates "noise".

I have the flu today, I see it as an excellent opportunity to see if the bug might help me stumble on something new. I don't get sick often, but when it does happen, I really look forward to the moments and what may emerge. Just need to let myself go and float wherever I may...

Hope your well soon Icam88, Canyou imagine a place for yourself where you have no thought, none, your mind empiy ?.

lcam88
4th November 2015, 19:41
Hope your well soon Icam88, Canyou imagine a place for yourself where you have no thought, none, your mind empiy ?.

I'm much better today, thank you.

I can imagine, and I actually can maintain a moment as such. I'm up to the part where I am "working out" bodily rhythms like light tingling sensations I can sometimes notice on my right foot, or a warm patch on the left side of my back... There are some other things that I felt during my cold, the symptoms...

The only way I can describe it would be: it is like being dead. Time becomes less perceptible to me and the moment is evacuated of [some of] the distractions that are recalling recognizing and analyzing. In that way, it is simultaneously also like having just been born.

The interesting part of that all was that the cold put me into a mindstate where it was much easier to maintain that moment even while going through my daily routine. Driving in São Paulo traffic was not so exuberayting, I must say. It is just as bad as it is when I have thoughts about how bad it is. Needing to react to traffic movements sort of makes that exercise limited on a certain level it was something interesting to experience.

The "human effect" cannot be painted up into something it is not; the only way to fix things is to set about fixing.

enjoy being
5th November 2015, 02:08
I guess this subject is a little ambiguous and subtle in variations of terminologies to an extent.

On one hand I agree, on the other I don't totally subscribe.
Thoughts can be their own self. Thinking about the weather, or the stars. Or whatever. The radio transmitter and receiver that is a human mind (in this context), can run the tune of having thoughts which are not original. Like playing a song that others have sung. As our device plays or records the thoughts, the reception/perception of the recorder/receiver can perhaps alter or distort the thought into the context of the self. The mind seems to retain artifacts of thoughts, memories. They can become also distorted or crystalised into the receiver transmitter circuitry.
My take on this topic in this area of it, is that the tuning of this transmitter/receiver is the site in which the "No thought" concept dwells. The interference of our artifacts trying to retune/edit the information coming into the receiver, into a key which the human wants to maintain their idea of harmony.
This is the concept I feel is being spoken of, the awareness of this dynamic, and the ability to understand/identify the effects and realities outside of the loop.
Our editing of thoughts, the style of living intuitively. Some will dissmiss thoughts which were part of their learning and/or a prompt to follow.. because they 'decide' it was a menial unimportant thought, or it was a horrible unentertainable thought. I think this is what we are talking of.

As an artist, I deal with conscious and subconscious thoughts and inspirations a lot. I have understanding in this abstract way, of how 'over thinking' is not conducive to productivity. The 'zone', being in the zone. Sports people, orators, musicians, artists. Well everyone really, when they are in their element. Automatic writing. This is the zone of no thought. It is not, thoughtlessness. When in this zone, time can zip by, the focus during that period has thought and analysis, but the ability to become passive and neutral as the conductor of the orchestra allows for the process one is in to be more fluid and natural. Many times I have snapped out of my zone, a form of hypnosis perhaps, and once my analysis and conscious thinking kicks in to "see what I have made", I am blown away, and feel the need to credit the jewel like nature of the product made, to not just myself, but some form of fluid consciousness that worked through me.
As is the wisdom of dreams. The subconscious/unconscious patterns which the mind plays back and makes inter-relationships between which seem far wiser than one can correlate while 'awake'. For instance, being in a dream in which 50 people from your life are all there, and they are all different people who don't necessarily know each other, but the mind has identified them as all being the same in the way of them all having similar relationships to your waking self. Similarities in dynamics you have with those people. Something which, when this happened to me, I was flawed by how in my waking moments, I would never have drawn these parallels, and this would because of the barrier of interference and distortion which I describe in the above sections.
I still however, would say I am not my thoughts. I am a product of thought and an expression of those thoughts.

Aianawa
11th November 2015, 05:38
I'm much better today, thank you.

I can imagine, and I actually can maintain a moment as such. I'm up to the part where I am "working out" bodily rhythms like light tingling sensations I can sometimes notice on my right foot, or a warm patch on the left side of my back... There are some other things that I felt during my cold, the symptoms...

The only way I can describe it would be: it is like being dead. Time becomes less perceptible to me and the moment is evacuated of [some of] the distractions that are recalling recognizing and analyzing. In that way, it is simultaneously also like having just been born.

The interesting part of that all was that the cold put me into a mindstate where it was much easier to maintain that moment even while going through my daily routine. Driving in São Paulo traffic was not so exuberayting, I must say. It is just as bad as it is when I have thoughts about how bad it is. Needing to react to traffic movements sort of makes that exercise limited on a certain level it was something interesting to experience.

The "human effect" cannot be painted up into something it is not; the only way to fix things is to set about fixing.

I like to say, it is What Is, being realized.

Aianawa
11th November 2015, 07:01
I guess this subject is a little ambiguous and subtle in variations of terminologies to an extent.

On one hand I agree, on the other I don't totally subscribe.
Thoughts can be their own self. Thinking about the weather, or the stars. Or whatever. The radio transmitter and receiver that is a human mind (in this context), can run the tune of having thoughts which are not original. Like playing a song that others have sung. As our device plays or records the thoughts, the reception/perception of the recorder/receiver can perhaps alter or distort the thought into the context of the self. The mind seems to retain artifacts of thoughts, memories. They can become also distorted or crystalised into the receiver transmitter circuitry.
My take on this topic in this area of it, is that the tuning of this transmitter/receiver is the site in which the "No thought" concept dwells. The interference of our artifacts trying to retune/edit the information coming into the receiver, into a key which the human wants to maintain their idea of harmony.
This is the concept I feel is being spoken of, the awareness of this dynamic, and the ability to understand/identify the effects and realities outside of the loop.
Our editing of thoughts, the style of living intuitively. Some will dissmiss thoughts which were part of their learning and/or a prompt to follow.. because they 'decide' it was a menial unimportant thought, or it was a horrible unentertainable thought. I think this is what we are talking of.

As an artist, I deal with conscious and subconscious thoughts and inspirations a lot. I have understanding in this abstract way, of how 'over thinking' is not conducive to productivity. The 'zone', being in the zone. Sports people, orators, musicians, artists. Well everyone really, when they are in their element. Automatic writing. This is the zone of no thought. It is not, thoughtlessness. When in this zone, time can zip by, the focus during that period has thought and analysis, but the ability to become passive and neutral as the conductor of the orchestra allows for the process one is in to be more fluid and natural. Many times I have snapped out of my zone, a form of hypnosis perhaps, and once my analysis and conscious thinking kicks in to "see what I have made", I am blown away, and feel the need to credit the jewel like nature of the product made, to not just myself, but some form of fluid consciousness that worked through me.
As is the wisdom of dreams. The subconscious/unconscious patterns which the mind plays back and makes inter-relationships between which seem far wiser than one can correlate while 'awake'. For instance, being in a dream in which 50 people from your life are all there, and they are all different people who don't necessarily know each other, but the mind has identified them as all being the same in the way of them all having similar relationships to your waking self. Similarities in dynamics you have with those people. Something which, when this happened to me, I was flawed by how in my waking moments, I would never have drawn these parallels, and this would because of the barrier of interference and distortion which I describe in the above sections.
I still however, would say I am not my thoughts. I am a product of thought and an expression of those thoughts.

Thank you nothing, exceptional post, your artistic take interesting also.
Receiver transmitter being chakras and or clear balanced mind ?

scibuster
11th November 2015, 10:46
I've not read these long thread in total.

Yes I'm not only in my thoughts:
(I'm also in my guts.)

In 1982 I lost my thoughts and most of my memory for a duration of 14 days.
no thoughts = Gedankensperre
Included in an extreme sleep disorder (no sleep at all for 14-days).

It was a horror and joy simultaniously.

lcam88
11th November 2015, 14:39
Thoughts can be their own self. Thinking about the weather, or the stars. Or whatever. The radio transmitter and receiver that is a human mind (in this context), can run the tune of having thoughts which are not original. Like playing a song that others have sung. As our device plays or records the thoughts, the reception/perception of the recorder/receiver can perhaps alter or distort the thought into the context of the self. The mind seems to retain artifacts of thoughts, memories. They can become also distorted or crystalised into the receiver transmitter circuitry.

I am reminded of "Ambassador Kosh" from the B5 TV show relating to thoughts as a song.

I was always particularly curious about dialog like:

Telepath: "But, I don't understand!"

Kosh: "Because, you are listening to the song, and not hearing the music"

FYI, that might not be exact dialog, at least it is paraphrased...

CORRECTION I found the exact dialog:

In the Deathwalker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathwalker) episode:

Talia Winters: All the clearances seem to be in order, and the pay is very generous. However, there's something I still don't understand.
Kosh: Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Kosh: Ahh. You seek meaning.
Talia: Yes.
Kosh: Then listen to the music, not the song.

Aianawa
12th November 2015, 03:24
Have huge respect for Mr Tolle and felt to put some of his words here about the mind/thoughts >

http://spiritlibrary.com/eckhart-tolle/you-are-not-your-mind

Aianawa
16th November 2015, 07:43
I am reminded of "Ambassador Kosh" from the B5 TV show relating to thoughts as a song.

I was always particularly curious about dialog like:

Telepath: "But, I don't understand!"

Kosh: "Because, you are listening to the song, and not hearing the music"

FYI, that might not be exact dialog, at least it is paraphrased...

I may be incorrect, is they then saying, the song is what he is receiving and the music is the song of silence/void/no mind.

lcam88
16th November 2015, 13:13
I really don't know for sure, Aianawa. Its a curious analogy for sure.

Funny thing too is, if you switch the words song and music as in : "Because you are listening to the music, and not hearing the song." It is just as enigmatic. It doesn't mean anything significantly different.

Dreamtimer
16th November 2015, 17:36
Sounds like saying you're looking at the trees and failing to see the forest.

And the reverse would have a much different meaning.

I recall Kosh. When the environment suit opened he was a light being, like an angel.

Dreamtimer
16th November 2015, 17:58
If I may, what Ralph are you referring to? Your link, Aianawa, is just text for me. I'm very curious about who this is.

lcam88
16th November 2015, 18:16
Ralph Ring. He was interviewed by Camalot back in the day. Since he has been doing his thing. Interesting man.

trees vs forest sounds like a good analogy.

But in another episode (All Alone in the night (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Alone_in_the_Night))

[Sheridan turns to see Kosh.]
John Sheridan: Why are you here?
Dream Kosh: We were never away. For the first time, your mind is quiet enough to hear me.

There is a reoccurring theme here with Kosh where the mind plays a "song". The looking at the trees vs forest thought insightful in context...

I edited the exact lines from the Deathwalker episode (and pasted them here too).

Talia Winters: All the clearances seem to be in order, and the pay is very generous. However, there's something I still don't understand.
Kosh: Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Kosh: Ahh. You seek meaning.
Talia: Yes.
Kosh: Then listen to the music, not the song.

Aianawa
20th November 2015, 12:18
Maybe, for one to walk in this life with either iether or neither, alone and in joy, logically with compassion, creating on dreams, flowering with ripples, challenging with oppurtunities, loving with disconnect, thankfullll alongside knowing, thoughtless while hungering, is many songs, much music, death and esteasy, life and return, or not.

Aianawa
21st November 2015, 04:53
If I may, what Ralph are you referring to? Your link, Aianawa, is just text for me. I'm very curious about who this is.

Cannot remember how I came upon Ralph, going by his story in the past,what he is doing at present IMO will be cutting edge and up to date as far as humanity moving forward.

Dreamtimer
21st November 2015, 06:08
I searched the forum and watched/listened to a couple of videos of him. Good stuff.

Aianawa
21st November 2015, 21:31
I searched the forum and watched/listened to a couple of videos of him. Good stuff.

Am certain that he had inhis past some Know Thyself,mind training as such, as he was the one with least science training but was always the one in the thick of experiments.

lcam88
23rd November 2015, 13:36
Aianawa:

In an interview he did share bits of his life; he was a diver for the navy, if memory serves, after his enlistment he did some work in the aquatics scene but I can't remember exactly what. He was then taken on as a researcher for an outfit doing research for govt projects... the type that was researching not to find certain things...

Later he did machine work for a Tesla disciple on a project where they constructed something out of t5 Al.

My impression is that he never did official "training" the mind beyond what was called for in remaining calm under water which would be standard diving training. Know thyself seemed to come naturally for him; some people are just born with natural inclinations. I think that is the case here. He calls it being good with "natural law".

Dreamtimer
23rd November 2015, 14:13
I really liked everything he said. I was very impressed at how he discussed research and technology in terms of natural law. Steam starts to come out of my ears when I hear him talk about research being seized and being told they're threatening the monetary system. I'd like to slap a few people silly. Or senseless. Oh wait, that'd be redundant...

Aianawa
24th November 2015, 03:11
It may have been his boss Carr ?, who taught or influenced at least in some mind training and yes it appears it was more natural for him on this life journey.

Aianawa
24th November 2015, 21:13
Imagine walking through one's day, Knowing that one's thoughts were not there thoughts, using one's knowing, intuition and feelings, one would be best served to know any of one's filters as such, obviousely, as life would not be very joyfullll or at least limiting.

One's actions would be instantaneous and one's synchronocity would be the norm.

One would be changing the energy or energy fields around them and rarely having others change their energy field.

Aianawa
2nd December 2015, 00:48
Really feeling the collective mind/noospheric positive changes just lately, So imo more and more people are knowing their minds, out of their minds, not drawn away by thoughts, thereby creating and creating strongly a know thyself collective construct, exciting indeed.

Aianawa
4th December 2015, 08:29
Always learning something new >

http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/meditate.htm

Aianawa
15th December 2015, 06:47
An interesting idea/s around ones thoughts or know thyself > http://www.safnet.com/literae/html/know.html

Aianawa
15th December 2015, 06:58
I find the Thoughts are not your Thoughts very interesting at this time of year due to the collective xmass influence thought wise, i have little interest but due to it being all around me as such, it indeed catches me out lol.

Dumpster Diver
15th December 2015, 17:37
New to this thread. Unfortunately, the initial thrust of this points to reality being a simulacrum i.e. my being a part of a larger simulation.

May well be true and actually it is one of the three highest probability choices I see of the state of my "reality" right now, and frankly the one I least like.

Aianawa
16th December 2015, 10:30
In what way a simulation DD ?

Along the lines that Divine Feminine speaks of ?

Dumpster Diver
16th December 2015, 16:03
If my thoughts are not my own, then I'm not thinking for myself. If I'm not thinking for myself, I'm part of a simulation built by some higher intelligence for some, as yet, unknown reason and programmed to think that I think. As I said, I like this the least, but see it as having the highest probability of being the state of reality as it explains away everything including things I find very objectionable in our "reality."

Numerous scientists like this "theory of everything" and it has been judged by one British group of Scientists to be the " most likely" by a "proof" that I can't lay my hands on at this moment.

Dreamtimer
16th December 2015, 16:09
I don't like it either. I'd much rather think I'm flesh and blood. What I want and what is.....don't always match.

lcam88
16th December 2015, 17:43
DD, could it be that your thoughts are part of a collective? A collective that reveals your part to you in a special way? Special because you are You and the time you spend here existing has purpose? Purpose that may be a simulation, extrapolation or a parameterized repetition of some sort, but none the less is as large as life itself?

I think Aianawa is somehow gazing upon this all that is not immediately clear, especially when you first find yourself sharing in these ideas here and now.

There may be other ways to express, of course, but all forms that I've explored are at least equally abstract, including Dreamtimers "flesh and blood" view.

Aianawa
17th December 2015, 11:09
If my thoughts are not my own, then I'm not thinking for myself. If I'm not thinking for myself, I'm part of a simulation built by some higher intelligence for some, as yet, unknown reason and programmed to think that I think. As I said, I like this the least, but see it as having the highest probability of being the state of reality as it explains away everything including things I find very objectionable in our "reality."

Numerous scientists like this "theory of everything" and it has been judged by one British group of Scientists to be the " most likely" by a "proof" that I can't lay my hands on at this moment.

Your logical processing or say brain maybe, is yours, intuition is yours, being present in the now moment is yours.

Dumpster Diver
17th December 2015, 12:52
My struggle with this is: I've been quite successful (money and prestige) in decision science. Most of it is using math models to predict "the future." As I've gone along, I've developed a very real sense of "thinking outside the box" i.e. looking at problems for essentially new and perhaps unusual directions to come to "better" or certainly more "robust" solutions to problems. Since I've spent a lot of time thinking about such things I'm thusly fairly reluctant to think I'm "channeling" someone else's solutions even if it's that *clown* who claims to be my "higher self" or any other more evolved being(s).

While I've stumbled over all this "alternate reality" biz, I'm not liking it, and pretty unhappy over the "new" rules.

I sorta liked the old rules.

The GF says I'm kinda arrogant about all this. I'm thinking she's right.

But it's tough realizing that instead of having a university degree in life, you're only in, perhaps, 1st grade.

Dreamtimer
17th December 2015, 13:10
DD, I can totally relate to that last statement.

I've come across many very smart and successful people who are arrogant. The problem with arrogance is it can make people stupid. They're so sure of themselves and their positions their minds become closed. The ones who don't fall into this trap have wisdom. That higher self of yours is no clown, just your wiser part.

I raised my son to be confident but not arrogant. It's an important distinction.

Whether my thoughts are my own or not I proceed as if they are. It's my responsibility. It's entirely possible that as you get better at thinking for yourself your thoughts do become more your own.

Aianawa
17th December 2015, 13:10
Okay, got where you are coming from DD, noosphere and Jose arguelles,s understanding of it may give you another avenue.

Dumpster Diver
17th December 2015, 13:42
Dreamy, I am arrogant. Most successful folks in our culture are. I bought into it thinking I'm following the "rules" of society.

However, the damnable math has shown me that a lotta things have been hidden from me and I'm just a *little* unhappy about this. The society rules are bullish*t and I'm almost starting over. YUCK! (actually I'm saying a very bad word that rhymes with this) ...and...part of the learning process has me learning to eat this arrogance for the rotten fruit it is.

Aianawa, the whole reason I'm here (and sticking around) is to learn this new stuff from you guys. My cultural *nature* is rebelling, and I'm trying hard to subdue it. I'm looking up your suggestions and *dealing* with them.

Baby-steps.

Aianawa
18th December 2015, 04:04
Lol yip got ya DD, maybe go more experiencial, shortens the journey, learn reiki, then start on some old goodies to read > Conversations With God series, Power of Now, The Ringing Cedars series and Time and the Technoosphere to tickle the brain lol, best wishes and love your courage, getting out of ones box/CONditioning is to be applauded.

Dumpster Diver
18th December 2015, 04:23
Lol yip got ya DD, maybe go more experiencial, shortens the journey, learn reiki, then start on some old goodies to read > Conversations With God series, Power of Now, The Ringing Cedars series and Time and the Technoosphere to tickle the brain lol, best wishes and love your courage, getting out of ones box/CONditioning is to be applauded.

Thanks, something seems to be working. I've got friends commenting on my riding the "crazy train" where a few years ago I was thought "normal" or as "normal" as a math geek can be.

One thing is good: I don't panic anymore. The planet X/chemtrail/cabol/armageddon stuff no longer really bugs me. I'm somewhat serene with it...mostly. Realizing I'll just reincarnate has taken the edge off.

I'm off to read up on the stuff you posted, thanks again.

Aianawa
18th December 2015, 10:41
If your a maths nut, you may find the Arguelles 13 20 material an interesting rabbit hole indeed DD, also lots of no mind meditation and the opposite, the tzolkin which is greatest computer Ever lol.

Aianawa
19th December 2015, 11:58
Love to hear some feedback on your read up DD.

Aianawa
21st December 2015, 01:41
Happy minds to all and laughter, bliss and compassion as we injoy the holydays and relax, reflect, regenerate while doing our best to continue the greatest time on Earth > the moment.

This thread appears to be my best thread contribution to TOT, thankyou >

What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.

Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. That�s all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.

Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.

Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. It�s very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. That�s all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. That�s all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. It�s very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.

Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. It�s been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? It�s not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.

Then the self, the sense of separation. That�s again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinating�slightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You don�t exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.

Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that you�re wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? It�s not at all your dress.

Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you�re out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you�re moving your arm by your control. It�s not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It�s only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.

Now the problem is you�re identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you�re having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.

If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.

The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem

Aianawa
24th December 2015, 08:09
This is another meditation which can be challenging, as some of the no mind meditations can be, a goodie though >

http://lawoftime.org/rainbow-bridge/rainbow-bridge-meditation.html

Rainbow Bridge Meditation.

Also this extremely simple yet powerfullll natural mind meditation >

http://lawoftime.org/infobooth/naturalmind.html

Aianawa
26th December 2015, 03:16
The second meditation above is one that children can be taught very easily, as they get to the end of their breath, where they are neither breathing in nor out ( the gap ), and let thoughts/story go/leave, they then watch their mind create another thought/story, helps them see they are not their thoughts or mind.

lcam88
30th December 2015, 01:08
All things are universal. Nothing is which is not universal. Nothing is of itself alone. Man and Mind and all created things are universal. No man can say: "I alone am I."

Made me think of your thread Aianawa.

Try reading the quote again but this time upon finding the word "Nothing", imagine the concept to be specific, rather than general, as though Nothing is something in and of itself.

I found an interesting meaning doing that, as though Nothing itself means something besides an absence or void... It is a clue about what "All things are universal" really means.

Aianawa
3rd January 2016, 00:35
Thankyou Icam88, have just arrived back from the wilderness, a festival in the mountains as such and once again there was the Nothing Guru doing his workshop/s, which is nothing, doing nothing etc etc.

Aianawa
3rd January 2016, 21:05
One could also replace the word nothing with the word void, from which comes number or frequency or vibration.

lcam88
4th January 2016, 13:30
Indeed the concepts of Nothing and/or Void are simply quite impossible to really experience.

We must imagine or conceptualize a set that could normally have members, and then imagine the degenerate case where the set has no members. But still ever present is this idea that there is the possibility of members and at least the existence of the empty set itself.

That idea is what makes the experience so hard.

Intuitively we take that idea in one of two directions, the imagined size of the set gets so small it becomes a point, or it gets so large it could hold everything and then we may find a subset of the whole that indeed is nothing and/or void.

The second scenario is especially the case when the concept of nothing is placed alongside universe; we imagine a huge universe that has a boundary with Nothing and/or Void, and suddenly... the set that could contain nothing must also be huge.

If you really go ape-sh!t and start adding dimensionalities to the concept...

But regardless, the experience we have of conceptualizing Nothing is always the conceptualization of Universe (the potential of something) and then a negation thereof.

That is the where and the why of my posting above: The concept of nothing in and of itself must also be meaningless as well as void. It serves only to describe Universe (something) by defining a distinction at the risk of this confusion.

Thus, Universe has no why, only that [it] is. As though we are examining a cause that is not also an effect. In essence the pure thought that gives rise to a new ripple of cause and effect. (perhaps this cause and effect being the origin of number or vibration or frequency)

–––

Happy 2016

Aianawa
5th January 2016, 08:47
Not impossible imo Icam88, feel it is experiencial and then more experiencial, maybe that is also your apepoo scenario lol

Aianawa
9th January 2016, 08:10
Feel to post this from another thread, cheers lcam88

>


Quote Originally Posted by lcam88 View Post

bsbray, that is hilarious!

Ohh Aianawa, you are just too conservative. If you are indeed not your thoughts, then within is actually everything right?

My reply >
PAH conservative, no comment lol. Everything is without , within is all , in between is thought , or not. I felt his script writers were the best, for Mr sheen.

lcam88
10th January 2016, 00:12
I'm happy to know you are so pleased with your comments. I actually do not understand them. Too much dissonance for me.

Consider: Everything is all, but within is not without even if all is everything.

too conservative?

Aianawa
10th January 2016, 03:08
Your comment was the focus as much IMO.
Suffering not needed in ones life IMO, what causes suffering ?, thoughts and or the mind !!!

lcam88
10th January 2016, 15:17
Or the very idea of losing (or winning)... I can follow that.

No different from fear.

Aianawa
10th January 2016, 19:31
Lol, we agree and then there is fear of loss of love, which may be looked at or felt at, as both.

lcam88
11th January 2016, 00:26
Fear of the loss of love.

as pertaining to both, lose and a fear.

Fear is mostly due to a lack of knowledge, not knowing and the uncertainty in respect to some subject matter that then causes alarm as the ego tries for its goal.

Loss of love is much the same insofar as love represents the capacity or possibility to satisfy the need to reproduce.

If you view love as something more, the idea of "loss of love" is a contradiction in and of itself. To be disconnected from the universe is essentially impossible.

Aianawa
11th January 2016, 00:57
Fear of the loss of love.

as pertaining to both, lose and a fear.

Fear is mostly due to a lack of knowledge, not knowing and the uncertainty in respect to some subject matter that then causes alarm as the ego tries for its goal.

Loss of love is much the same insofar as love represents the capacity or possibility to satisfy the need to reproduce.

If you view love as something more, the idea of "loss of love" is a contradiction in and of itself. To be disconnected from the universe is essentially impossible.

With love as the goal achieved, maybe a twinning of souls as such but anyway, love of and from another, being lost, left or withdrawn etc etc, another way of feeling it may be when one has no need of anothers love as they are fufulled and then an evolving aspect for themselves has been to love and be loved by another, bringing about the energy of fear of loss of love outside of oneself.

lcam88
11th January 2016, 01:42
With love as the goal achieved, maybe a twinning of souls as such but anyway, love of and from another, being lost, left or withdrawn etc etc, another way of feeling it may be when one has no need of anothers love as they are fufulled and then an evolving aspect for themselves has been to love and be loved by another, bringing about the energy of fear of loss of love outside of oneself.

I think love is sometimes confused with possession. As though love should be exclusive to someone special; it is a shame this type of tradition or culture has flourished. I love that expression: "If you love something set it free". Our culture encourages the opposite actually.

Maybe endless examination the memories and records of the past to ponder the future is not actually a form of loving. Love is something that exists much more in the present moment.

For example, love of family and close friends, we live those moments without the preponderances of what may be or what has been.

Dreamtimer
11th January 2016, 04:20
Losing someone you love is not the same as losing love.

I've personally experienced the phenomenon of loving something/one and letting them go. That's a scary thing. And it works.

I'm not sure love itself can really be lost. I hear this choice being discussed: love or fear? I can't quite embrace it as a choice.

The love is always there. The fear gets in the way and can cause people to turn their backs on love. And it's still there, right behind them.

I believe it was Buddah who said that suffering teaches compassion. Compassion is good friends with love.

Aianawa
11th January 2016, 05:55
For myself the each moment choice of fear or love, came to me as a spiritual foundation to start with through Conversations With God series ( books ), so that is where I am coming from experiencially. Every decision comes from love or fear.

lcam88
11th January 2016, 11:43
I'm put forth this thesis on more than one occasion: we actually make very few real choices in life.

We always choose in accordance with our preferences, whatever other option we may be faced with is never selected. Our organism and its ability to calculate and adapt has already made the choice, we merely follow through with the routine accepting (through some type of flawed logic) that a choice was made through our own free will.

Absolutely nobody will choose to eat spinach if they don't like it while they have the option of selecting something else they do like. They will only choose to eat the spinach if they are coerced, The forcing function that overrides their personal preferences is powered perhaps by fear (You will not grow big and strong...), sometimes out of love. (oh try some, you may find you like it as much as I do...)

The only time we actually make a choice is when we find ourselves completely undecided about the options, when there is a 50/50 chance of choosing one option over the other. A state where our ego and our preconceptions do not drowning out that moment when our higher self may whisper ever so gently the higher desire or choosing.

...unless we are mistaken and we think that surviving is living. That is the problem with the common notions of God, what we need be fearful of it; thus believing in that type of god, we would be condemned to living a life of survival, which is indeed the ego's domain.


The fear gets in the way and can cause people to turn their backs on love.

Perhaps better said as, "they lose sight of love". Which is to lose the state of "connectedness".

Aianawa
11th January 2016, 12:08
Hi lcam88, I feel maybe I am talking about one percentage of humanity and yourself another.

lcam88
11th January 2016, 13:44
I'm pretty sure we are talking about the same thing.

We seem to agree that choices are made from a position of love or from a position of fear (ego fighting to survive at some level).

The only difference is that I go so far as to say the decision to survive is not a real choice (choices appear as relating to fear at whatever level, or personal ego related preferences).

Dreamtimer
11th January 2016, 16:31
lcam88, that was really well said.

Aianawa, thank you for your clarification. I'm not familiar with that work, though I've heard of it.

This life is so short. We're like sparks, in our brevity and in our light. I personally believe that's how we were made in the likeness of our Creator.

It's said that when we die we wake from the dream and return to 'reality'. We can connect to and experience the 'real world' in the Dreamtime or Dreamworld.

Our drive to survive this physical life is massive. Choices are limited and/or driven.

The perception of choice is nice while we're here. We can seek happiness, comraderie, pleasure, love...

As a kid I heard several different sources say that to overcome fear you have to face it. I decided that's what I'd do. I did it in dreams and in waking life.

The final challenge is to fully realize the power available in life and use it, responsibly. It's scary to take full responsibility for our actions. People come up with all kinds of reasons that someone/thing else is responsible.

I used to be shy/reserved and it was sometimes scary just to do normal things in front of other people. I feel pretty confident it was my own will that moved me beyond that. There's no one else that gets credit.

Aianawa
12th January 2016, 09:26
I'm pretty sure we are talking about the same thing.

We seem to agree that choices are made from a position of love or from a position of fear (ego fighting to survive at some level).

The only difference is that I go so far as to say the decision to survive is not a real choice (choices appear as relating to fear at whatever level, or personal ego related preferences).

Why would one be here if one has no choices ?.

lcam88
12th January 2016, 13:23
Why would one be here if one has no choices ?.

hmmmm. I did phrase it as "we actually make very few real choices in life".

Perhaps because, out of love, we choose to be here.

Deciding not to suicide is different from deciding to survive. Survival is the goal of the ego, once you start analyzing and deciding everything in terms of survival, really are you making an actual choice? Is deciding to survive actually even a choice, no, it is the status quo. Behavior, habit and almost all the preferences we have innately have survival value; decisions based on that set of characteristics are fulfilling the role of survival.

That said, preferences in art, in "refined" taste of some kind, perhaps those preferences can be said to be based on something besides survival... Maybe?

Lansing
13th January 2016, 02:52
Why would one be here if one has no choices ?.

Perhaps to experience?

Aianawa
13th January 2016, 03:10
Experience/ing is a choice.

lcam88
13th January 2016, 13:52
Experience/ing is a choice.

It that were true, Aianawa, we would be able to turn off our reality, we would be able to choose not to experience (torture for example).

That said, when we daydream or shift the focus of our reality, we do make a choice about what we experience. But that we cannot choose not to experience being the point I would like to make above.

Dreamtimer
13th January 2016, 16:36
I think you're right, lcam88. We have subtle choices. I took Aianawa's phrase to mean that we chose to be here having the experience. Once we're here it plays out.

I made a choice as a child to trust my instincts. They saved my life. If I had chosen to ignore them, I'd be maimed or dead. It was a simple choice. It had huge consequences. There was no perceptible danger. My instincts warned me.

If this choosing is delusion it's very convincing and consistent.

We can't recall our higher selves or last lives while here. We can't recall the future, though we've likely seen it. This lack of knowing leads us to the state of experiencing and choice making. It's part of this life experience. IMO.

lcam88
13th January 2016, 17:07
I think you're right, lcam88. We have subtle choices. I took Aianawa's phrase to mean that we chose to be here having the experience. Once we're here it plays out.

I can see what you mean by that. Fundamentally that requires that you believe (but no evidence to actually support it) that you also have an alternative.


I made a choice as a child to trust my instincts. They saved my life. If I had chosen to ignore them, I'd be maimed or dead. It was a simple choice. It had huge consequences. There was no perceptible danger. My instincts warned me.

If this choosing is delusion it's very convincing and consistent.

We can't recall our higher selves or last lives while here. We can't recall the future, though we've likely seen it. This lack of knowing leads us to the state of experiencing and choice making. It's part of this life experience. IMO.

Well said indeed.

I don't disagree with Aianawa necessarily, but rather out of trying to be consistent in the nuances.

We may accept that we are our thoughts (we have choice) we may also view that we are not our thoughts (we make very few actual choices).

Perhaps the only choice we cannot have, ever, is a choice about whether to experience or not. That boils down to an observance that Nothing is not part of the Universe. Everything is part of the Universe.

His point that we actually have a choice to experience would be like saying Everything else is a part of the Universe. That would imply that Nothing is indeed Something.

Or did I get that backwards?

I don't think so because experience is essentially about existence. Not to experience would be about Nothing. So then, experience could only be like having the freedom not to choose.

Dreamtimer
14th January 2016, 00:28
I can only speculate about what the alternative would be. Another experience maybe.

Proof? Could I prove I was in the Matrix? Neo had to have help to even be able to make his choice. The Oracle didn't know or understand a lot about her own choices.

So much of experience can't be proven.

Perhaps the vastness of possibility that is always before us is proof of choice.

lcam88
14th January 2016, 02:38
I can only speculate about what the alternative would be. Another experience maybe.

Indeed.


Proof? Could I prove I was in the Matrix? Neo had to have help to even be able to make his choice. The Oracle didn't know or understand a lot about her own choices.
Hence the term belief; noone can really be 100% sure.

So much of experience can't be proven.

But interestingly, you are absolutely certain of your experience at this moment. I can draw attention to the sensations you may feel in your toes, right now, and in your experience you will _know_ how they feel. There is no need to appeal to believing, theorising or examining a presentation of evidence beyond simply noticing.

And in this exercise, however small, of noticing, perhaps I've also encouraged you to make a choice, to try, this moment become immersed in a "love" with those toes. Hence an experience you may not have had in the same way is now a part of who you are.


Perhaps the vastness of possibility that is always before us is proof of choice.

This view of vastness, perhaps incomprehensible and all encompassing is the way the universe is taught to us. But we only imagine as much. The universe of our experience and our life is very different.

Many a day we may feel that our lives are routine and mundane even as we may recognize possibilities we would never take, because of unbearable consequences. The possible choices are then only imagined, not experienced.

For example, it is easy to imagine being in a peterbilt dump truck with a car-plow mounted in front. To accelerate and clear a path through traffic and put an end to the seemingly unbearable mundane of the modern traffic jam. And indeed it may be possible to rent, or steal a truck, the plow would require a few weld beads over some scrap 1/4 inch steel, reenforcing structures and a hydraulic cylinder, and then show -time.

But really, I will never do such a thing even if I manage to swallow a lie of my own making in thinking it is a real choice.

Aianawa
14th January 2016, 05:04
It that were true, Aianawa, we would be able to turn off our reality, we would be able to choose not to experience (torture for example).

That said, when we daydream or shift the focus of our reality, we do make a choice about what we experience. But that we cannot choose not to experience being the point I would like to make above.

We can turn off the reality we did not create, surviving/suffering is torture IMO,

lcam88
14th January 2016, 13:22
Indeed, but that would mean meddling with a reality someone else created. Why is that even interesting? Isn't it better to meddle with our own created realities?

lcam88
14th January 2016, 14:41
This video fits here, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-6hosFAObI

PS

The blind spots we sometimes notice in our field of vision are explained in an ablation type of scenario, as though a part of our brain may be missing?

Aianawa
15th January 2016, 04:12
Indeed, but that would mean meddling with a reality someone else created. Why is that even interesting? Isn't it better to meddle with our own created realities?

Feel we are on the same page, just our experiences may be different and maybe also I believe the collective mind/nooshere meddles with individual minds until one knows their own mind And then move to a heart and mind functioning where logic/knowing/feelings/perfect action, is.

Aianawa
16th January 2016, 06:24
Why does the perfect action not involve thoughts or need to maybe better said ?, heart mind connection, now I have observed there is a difference between male and female around this heart mind connection which flummoxes me a wee bit, maybe many perfect actions lol.

Aianawa
16th January 2016, 21:26
Yes, you are not your thoughts, not your emotions, not your body, not your personality, and not even your mind. You are experiencing these things and identifying with them, but they do not define you. You exist beyond them all. You *have* those things. But to say you *have them* is to suggest that you are *not them*. So, who has these things? Who is the owner and operator of this confounded mind?

A known mind knows Thyself therefore a collective mind does not influence it. Ones own mind is not the brain, an aspect maybe, ones own mind is part of one's own conduit of above and below, along with the heart, the chakras, plus

Aianawa
19th January 2016, 05:43
This video fits here, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-6hosFAObI

PS

The blind spots we sometimes notice in our field of vision are explained in an ablation type of scenario, as though a part of our brain may be missing?

Am a big Sheldrake fan lcam88, just watched this, had to prioritize and watch Outlanders cricket vid first lol.
Also if one has enhanced their outer energy fields, they can feel others a long way off.

lcam88
19th January 2016, 14:20
Am a big Sheldrake fan lcam88, just watched this, had to prioritize and watch Outlanders cricket vid first lol.
Also if one has enhanced their outer energy fields, they can feel others a long way off.

I've never taken much to cricket... I think it would be more fun to play than to watch though.

Sheldrake is very logical in his approach indeed. Makes you wonder if science and medicine can actual get anything right at all.

The underlined part... Perhaps heightened sensitivity results in enhanced energy fields?

Aianawa
19th January 2016, 21:24
Chakras chakras chakras, mindfullllness and intent, from experience, IMO.

lcam88
20th January 2016, 14:38
I liked the links you posted earlier on the topic of meditation.