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View Full Version : 50 Shades Of Greys.....A tribute to Seikhu Kishi



Highland1
13th September 2013, 21:08
Hi folks, some of you will remember my previous thread showing a compilation video of alien greys and it was left for you to determine whether the video footage was real or a hoax?
The reason I originally posted the video is that many of us are abductees or contactees.

3

I'm not going to post the video again because the thread evolved into something incredibly original, thank you in large to Seikhu!

Fortunately I saved the file which was a compilation of everything he wrote from the start to end of the thread.

For some reason the new platform will only allow so much text so I will post it in parts.

So here it is again, an absolute must read!

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Part One.


It has to be said Seikhu you are a truly wonderful unique inspirational writer of the human experience and all things esoritic!
Absolutely second to none, except maybe on a par with Breeze! lol
This content of your words written here I should imagine is a first and should be studied with sincerity.

Therefore, I thought it a good idea to capture your comments and relay them all together so the reader can fully grasp everything all in one place rather than scroll through each thread.

So ladies and gentlemen, sit back, don your tin hat appropriately and enjoy The One Truths Shakespeare in action........


Fifty Shades Of Seikhu




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When it comes to greys, I think the closest we have to their actual nature in human "culture" is the "dementor" of Harry Potter fame. I include this quote, which represents them fairly well in my experience, just read "Greys" wherever you see "Dementors":



"Dementors are among the foulest creatures that walk this earth. They infest the darkest, filthiest places, they glory in decay and despair, they drain peace, hope, and happiness out of the air around them... Get too near a Dementor and every good feeling, every happy memory will be sucked out of you. If it can, the Dementor will feed on you long enough to reduce you to something like itself...soulless and evil. You will be left with nothing but the worst experiences of your life."
I think greys come about in the same way; they inhabit all that is dark and decaying about the human psyche. They appear to have no sexual organs because they are not created in that way; they are manifestations of the human mentality. Their form is a mockery of the human form. They have no ability to create because they are not real the way humans are real, and this is also represented in their bodies: their generative faculty is absent.

They are created in the darkest recesses of the human mind and feed upon the darkness they find there. They perpetuate more like a yeast fermenting and reduplicating itself than like an animal species reproducing by the combination of genetic inheritance. It is why they are all the same, both in body and mind, where humans and other animals are diverse in form and nature. It is also why everything about them speaks of decay, from their emaciated bodies to the rancid stench that comes with them; they are pustulent and oozing because their origin is filth and that is all they will ever be and all they ever can be. They are a bubbling up of rancour and bile, a simmering in the putrid slime secreted in the hidden recesses of the human mind.

That's not to say they are not clever: they are of the hidden recesses of the human mind and mind is their fabric. They have science and cleverness of a completely mental sort, and its dark origination ensures that their science is always perverted science, never wholesome. It is the soul that they lack, that they can't understand in the more holistic sense of understanding.

They hate humans for their dependence upon human minds — human minds which harbour all these horrible things which the greys call home. The fundamentalist Christians are fond of saying that Satan's cleverest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist. I think the greys' cleverest trick was convincing people they were anything but the shadows that play on the inside of human minds.

I'm not saying they're not real. I'm sure you could catch one and put it in a cage of some sort and point at it if you so wished. I just don't think they have the same kind of reality to them that we have. They need us to create them and feed into their existence and through abductions and manipulative treaties with governments they will lie and scheme in order to get us feeding into their reality. I think humans are spiritually creative beings, and when a being is of the kind of nature which is human, metaphor and reality start to blur and the human soul takes what is on the inside and turns it outside so that all which is light becomes an external light and all which is dark becomes an external darkness.


I've known people in my time who seem to thrive on disaster. One such person constantly lied and made up tragedies to feed on the energy and sympathy of the people around him. He lied about things that had happened to him, about people in his family having cancer, and so on, just to control everybody around him. You couldn't say anything without suddenly his mother or father was dying and you were not being considerate and so on. That's exactly what the greys are like. One minute armageddon's minutes away, the next minute their race is dying and we have to put up with invasive procedures out of a sense of neighbourly duty. There's always some lie or another intended to keep us engaged with them because our attention feeds them. This is the Shining.

If you are fearful they will play upon your fear; if you are compassionate they will play upon your compassion; if you are curious they will play upon your curiosity: hence all the accounts of encounters with them are different; some encounter beings of love, others encounter heartless sadists. It doesn't really matter, because their very nature is a reflection of human nature, and so they change the way the image in the mirror changes. It is all personally tailored to best ensure success. The great variability in people's experiences with them begins to make sense when we realise that they change their tactic depending upon the target. As I said, the fearful will find monsters designed to frighten them into compliance, the compassionate will be emotionally blackmailed and the curious will find that their experiences are intellectually confusing. They don't care how they get your udders into the milking machine as long as they can milk you for their sustenance.

Give them no home within your mind; make your mind inhospitable to them the way you would make your body inhospitable to any other infection.

to be continued....

Tribe
13th September 2013, 21:09
You are a true star Mr Russ x

777
13th September 2013, 21:11
WOW! Thank you so much for preserving such an in depth, heartfelt thread with so many wonderful contributions (especially Seikou!!). Your a star Russ, absolute star mate! ;)

Highland1
13th September 2013, 21:15
Part Two....continued






"That's where they come from... that's why they hate us... that's why they need us... that's why they take us..."

As for experiences, I've had quite a few, although it's only ever when I think back that I realise how many. The experience I referred to in post #2 was a time a number of years ago. A friend and I were walking through some woods and we'd been spending the whole day talking about "esoteric" or spiritual things and we'd really started to whir. Anyway, in what seemed like a split second, I saw a ring of greys standing around in a huge circle. There were so many of them that there were enough of them to make this rather large circle with very little space between them — at least fifty of them, possibly twice that. The circle was surrounding my friend and me. I didn't know if my friend could see them or not, and I wasn't entirely sure I was seeing them either, because although I very much could see them, I could see through them as well, which made me think they weren't physically there and that was a window for doubt to creep in. Anyway, there was some sort of energy field, also semi-transparent, intersecting the path upon which we were walking and in the direction we were heading.

The greys were actually clothed, which is not a common thing in my experience with them (though these were tall white greys and it does seem more common with them). They wore white robes with a square-cut neck (which had a V cut out over the chest as well). The robes had embellishments around this neckline in what looked like gold and purple, though because they were somewhat transparent there was interference from the backdrop. The sleeves may also have been embellished in the same way, though their arms were by their sides, which had the effect of folding their sleeves away until they were mostly out of view. The sleeves were of the type that get wider towards the wrist, like a wizard's sleeve or the sleeves of a dalmatic — in fact, they almost looked like they were wearing bell-shaped chasubles (which I think was intentional). The greys themselves were white like the albumen of a boiled egg, perfectly white with an almost wet kind of shininess. I think they were trying to appear a certain way because of the themes my friend and I had been discussing.

Anyway, we walked up to this energy field and I said nothing and I'm not entirely sure why. Certainly I could have managed a "do you see that?" with the lovely and safe "oh, must have imagined it" line if I absolutely felt the need to. But there was none of that, it was as though our conversation (or ability or inclination to talk) was extinguished. Anyway, we just kept walking and walked through this energy field but as we did it seemed to take our breath away. My friend actually fell to his hands and knees to try to breathe but I just sort of shook it off. I felt irked more than anything, the way one feels when bitten by a mosquito. When he stood back up, the field had gone and so too had all the greys. He turned to me and said "I thought maybe I was imagining them... did you see them too?" Even though he had asked me, he wouldn't believe that I'd seen them too until out of exasperation I described the entire scene to him. He was very perturbed by it. I can't say I was, really, but I didn't know why.

But from my experience with them, they seem hollow creatures. I think that's what most frightens the people who are frightened of them. It's not that they're strange-looking things, it's the sense that in some very important ways there's absolutely nothing there. I think when people look at one another, they also in some respects see the soul. They don't see it physically, but it's always there. And because it's always there, they don't realise that they're also seeing it. Perhaps I should say they sense the soul or they acknowledge its presence on an intuitive level. I think when the greys are around though, the feeling is so strange because for once this isn't actually true, and you're only seeing what's physically there and the strange sensation of unnatural disgust or horror is rooted in the fact that there's nothing there that could be called a soul.

It's as though when one looks at a grey, there is the "physical" body and then nothing, as though they are missing several "layers" of existence. I say "physical" in inverted commas because I include the roughly physical side and the states approximate to the physical plane. It's like the physical or psychic eyes see the physical or psychic part of the grey, but the soul which interacts with other souls finds only emptiness. This disparity, the way our physical and psychic senses perceive something which our soul can't perceive in its own "native environment"* — I think that's what's so disconcerting. It's akin to the idea that travel-sickness occurs because the eyes sense a motion that the body doesn't feel, or vice versa. When the eyes see a body and the psychic senses perceive the other-than-physical but the soul realises there is no soul with which to interact, it is a feeling like the pit of one's stomach falling away. I think that's why people are so afraid of them, because the feeling is very much one of abomination.

*(I think of it this way: imagine an invisible man who could only be seen in mirrors. You might take to carrying a mirror around with you all the time hoping to see a reflection of something your eyes themselves can't see. That's the feeling of the soul lurching when a grey is around: for once it has to make do with the lesser senses of the physical or (low) psychic senses. When you look at a grey and your soul realises there's no soul to interact with, it's as though you're staring at an empty spot in the middle of the rug while all the mirrors around the room are telling you there's a guy standing there. I think that's why the eyes are so intimidating too — and why they're so empty. If eyes are the windows to the soul, then the eyes of a grey are windows into nothingness, into oblivion.)

I often wonder if that's why people frequently describe them as artificial or "mechanical" life-forms, because the psychic and physical senses see something which should have the soul of a living thing, while on the soul level there is nothing more to it than a rock or a sheet of metal. I'm not sure I'm describing it well.

None of what I know (or think I know, anyway) about the greys comes from the greys themselves. I don't think they have ever told the truth about anything and I think that might well be literally true, rather than just figuratively true. It comes from observations of them, but not conversations with them ("so tell me, do you have a soul?" lol). Like I said though they are of the mind. They have a mind and a body and that is it. You could say they're biological machines or automatons. Their mind, though, is powerful. They are clever in the sense that they are cunning and technologically gifted, perhaps. Many people experiencing encounters with them notice their ability to emit some sort of paralysis wave, particularly from their eyes.

I remember when I was younger the sense came over me that something was afoot. To be specific, I was at one end of the house and I could feel their presence in another part of the house. It was as though I had radar and they were showing up. It is a psychic sort of three-dimensional radar I've had many times before, and this time it opened up to me as a sort of notification that there were greys in my house. Anyway, I watched them from one end of my house and there were a couple in my room and they were spilling out of my room looking for other people. I ran across the house and to the stairs leading up to mine and my brother's rooms. As I flew up the stairs, one grey was leaving my room and walking across the way to my brother's room and turned to me. It stood at the top of the stairs looking down at me, expressionless. My body felt like it just wouldn't move and I looked back up at it and as I did I threw off this feeling of oppression (I say they "oppress with their eyes") and continued to charge up the stairs, thinking "not my family you ****s".

At this point, there was the one grey at the top of the stairs, two greys in my bedroom and one in my brother's room. There was also a craft of some sort (a glowing saucer with a hemisphere on the top) somehow out of sync with the physical world (the greys in the house were physical, though). I could still see them with this sort of psychic X-ray, though of course that wasn't necessary for the one at the top of the stairs as my physical eyes were on it. I could hear my brother in his sleep. He was reacting to the "feel" of the greys/the atmosphere they generate. It was a sort of whimpering noise.

Anyway, as I thought "not my family you ****s", I lashed out at them with something that's happened quite often. It's like a kind of psychic radiation, a wave or field of energy like a spherical shell which grows out of the brain or heart area and expands rapidly like a sort of psychic explosion (that sort of radiating expansion travelling outwards in all directions).


To be continued

Highland1
13th September 2013, 21:16
Part Three


This wave struck all of them as though the walls weren't even there and as it did the grey at the top of the stairs fell on its arse. It felt very much like a kind of banishment and the greys didn't leave my house and depart in their ship so much as they and their ship were driven out the way you'd be "driven out" if you were standing on the railway tracks at the wrong moment, like something caught in a sudden gale so strong it was completely blown away.

Once they'd gone and I was outside my brother's room, I stood by his door and heard him make a little noise of... not so much a noise of relief, but that kind of non-descript noise of somebody settling into an enjoyable dream only somewhat tinged with a sense of relief. I was moving physically at the same time as I attacked psychically. In fact, as I lashed out with this wave, I also swung for the grey on the stairs, but it was knocked over and out of reach by the wave which hit it first. Afterwards, I was glad that I didn't actually make physical contact, because the feel is a sickly one, like a grave, grave contamination. I should mention these weren't the tall white greys like those in the first experience I relayed here, they were about 3-4 feet tall and mid grey.



to be
That radiating wave of energy ordinarily comes from the heart or brain areas, but it can come from anywhere, including the hands and even points outside one's own body (which stands to reason really), and I've used it consciously and purposely against greys before in quite a few ways. In an encounter with a particularly pugnacious little ****, I "ignited" one inside its head. I can't adequately describe the feel of it, but it is a feeling of jarring pressure.

I don't know how many experiences I've had. I know there are experiences I can't remember, but even the experiences I do remember I have never been able to count. Often when I try to sit down and ennumerate my experiences, I find I can't think of any. It's the strangest thing, but the human ability to consider normal the circumstances to which we are accustomed is immense. Counting my encounters has the same sort of impossibility to it as counting how many times I've eaten steamed broccoli; I know I've done it and I've probably forgotten many occasions too. I can look back and say "I ate steamed brocolli yesterday" when I am asked, but would yesterday come up if I were asked to list every time? It's that sort of thing, becoming unremarkable through frequency.

I think that's a very accurate impression. Of course, spirit is a vague term and it would depend what he meant by it. I don't think they are spirits the way nymphs were spirits in Greece or the Sidhe were spirits in Ireland and Scotland, but I think it's a much more accurate term than calling them aliens, because it implies they are beings from a distant world with as much reality to them as humans. At the same time, though, they have bodies as surely as we have bodies. It is as though all that is negative about humans collectively gathers together like a dark fog and it coalesces into solid form and becomes the greys.

They are creations of the collective human mind, a collective parasitical infection created by and feeding upon negative thought patterns. Everything from fear to malice; anything which denigrates the human spirit is of the same sort of frequency as these things, which have no spirit. I also think that's why they talk of humans as "containers", because they have bodies and minds the way they do (and so they're not really interested) but there is a factor they do not have and greedily want because to have a human spirit is to be spiritually autonomous. They have no autonomy while they have to milk the darker aspects of the human mind for their very existence. They depend upon us and they resent it, which exacerbates the hatred which is their nature. If they are made of our hatred and our pettiness, they are hateful and petty. If they are made of those parts of the human psyche which are manipulative and deceitful, they will be manipulative and deceitful. It is of no benefit understanding them or reasoning with them; they are not of understanding and reason and so do not engage with it. And it is engagement they want. They want humans in a certain spectrum of thought to produce the energy they're made of. They are literally attention seekers, because energy flows where attention goes. In many ways, it's not really their fault and they are just a consequence of human spiritual ecology the way polluted water is of physical ecology, but that is not to say that they warrant understanding; humans should ruthlessly gaze into their Nietzschean abyss, acknowledge their own darkness and thereby neutralise its power over them — the greys shall wane into oblivion by the very fact.

In demonology and the occult, there is a large segment of people who view demons as representations of internal forces. As a very basic example, the demon Ashtaroth was said to be a demon of licentiousness and a lack of sexual decency. Could it be that such a demon is the aggregation of all the urges people have to go behind their partners' backs to cheat and so on? That is not the same as saying that these things are imaginary, or that they can be overcome through denial. I think humans have to acknowledge their dark impulses and reconcile them, rather than pretending they don't exist because accepting them might feel like admitting failure. ("If I admit I have all these dark urges, people will think me a beast")

I think greys are exactly this. Of course, there is the picture of "Lam", a being contacted by Aleister Crowley which looks very much like a grey, though with a few differences like flatter eyes. It also matches my experience with them. I have a lot of experience with banishings, as most people have who deal with these sorts of areas have, and I have noticed the same sorts of dynamics in play when encountering the greys. Part of the way banishings work is the banisher stands in his own power to order out what we might call "ontologically inferior" beings (negative entities, be they demons or greys, which are "less real" than the holisitic spiritual phenomenon which is a human), and this reminds me both of experiences with greys in which I drive them out psychically and experiences with more classical ideas of negative spirits like demons. In banishing in a strictly occult setting, rather than an extraterrestrial setting, a bolt or surge of energy emanates from my body in much the same way as I describe in my second encounter above (it's also interesting to note how a banishing changes the atmosphere of a room; demons and negative spirits, like the greys themselves, seem to bring a foul atmosphere with them... or spring up within it in compliance with barely understood principles of the human creative faculty)

In the encounters of others as relayed in interviews and so on, there is a large group of people who talk about praying to god and so on. Some of the time this has a marked effect on the greys and drives them away, but other times the greys seem to mock their prayer. I believe that the difference between the two, and the deciding factor, is that when such action is effective, the prayer to an outside god is merely the superficial form taken by the person asserting their own spiritual power, whereas when such action is met with mockery and is ineffective, it is a genuine appeal to an outside power for intervention. In other words, I think the form is identical (both appeals to god or Jesus) while the substance is different (one an assertion of spiritual sovereignty, the other a genuine appeal to god or Jesus).

The unfortunate thing here is personal/spiritual sovereignty and power are self-confirming and only self-confirming. There is no way to be convinced of one's spiritual sovereignty through means other than employing it; there is no intergalactic code of law which people can access assuring them that they have this ability. We might say that it is a catch 22: we need to use it to believe in it and we need to believe in it to use it. There is a noumenal, almost initiatic moment in which that ability opens up to us (or we open up to it) and without that sort of gnostic epiphany, there will be no help whatever form our begging for help takes. The thing which seems most regrettable to me is I don't think we're able to help others in coming to this inner understanding; if it can be given by others, it isn't really sovereignty.

They certainly do have minds and think the way beings with minds think; that is, thoughts go through their heads — but their thoughts are not completely like human thoughts. Looking into the mind of a grey is like looking into an obsidian mirror. I said in a previous post that the tactic of the greys change according to the nature of the person being abducted, so that the greys behave in a way most likely to ensure the abducted person engages with them; the fearful will be so frightened it doesn't occur to them to send them packing, the compassionate will feel so sorry for the greys that they won't want to, and so on.

The thoughts of greys are similar in that there isn't really anything there until the grey is reacting to a human. When a grey isn't abducting people, he doesn't sit down with a biscuit and cup of tea to listen to Radio 4.

To be continued.....

Highland1
13th September 2013, 21:22
Part four


They don't have personalities or personal characteristics.

Their thoughts seem to be similar in that they are reflections — of their target, of each other, and so on. I think it's why the hive mind thing seems so strong in the greys; they will naturally tend to think the same things if their own thought processes are reflective of the thoughts around them. But at the same time, the thoughts are never nice thoughts; if they're made of all that is dark and hidden in the human psyche, they're only going to have a limited spectrum of thought to display. In those instances in which they play upon compassion and appear to people as loving beings, it is not truly love but a manipulative and false display of love like many humans display towards each other. It seems like love from the outside, but it's not love. How often do we see people in relationships that are domineering, possessive and jealous? Many people mistake that kind of behaviour for love, and all those traits are part of the unacknowledged underbelly of the human psyche which coalesces into the greys.

So when we ask if greys are jealous of us for our spirit, the answer is of course they are! They're made of human jealousy, and so how can they not be jealous? They're made of human hatred, and so how can they not be hateful? If humans collectively were not predisposed to envy others but rather to be happy for their successes, we would have the equivalent of greys in our world that were ontologically inferior beings who were always pleased to witness human success. If we were not hateful, spiteful and manipulative people, but loving, magnanimous and uncontrolling, these thoughts would become manifest around us and we might find a race of beings that loved nothing better than helping us. And, of course, if humans collectively were more inclined towards the truth and not falsehood (look how people condemn Chelsea/Bradley Manning for revealing how they were being lied to), we might be surrounded by beings that told us exactly where they came from without a shred of deceit.

Their minds seem different too in that they don't seem to be as self aware as humans are. I don't think they stop and ask themselves "what's my real motive in doing this?" or "are my motives good motives?" It is as though their technically powerful minds (in terms of technological inventiveness) are computer programmes rather than organic, living minds. They operate with a combination of animal instinct and ruthless intelligence, but there doesn't seem to be any degree of self-awareness or sapience. They do not scrutinise their own motives because it is not their nature to do that. They spring up out of the unscrutinised parts of the human psyche and so self-scrutiny is alien to them. Does a shadow ask if its existence is worthwhile? No, it changes shape according to its creator and the nature and direction of the light; it does not ask itself if the shapes it assumes are good shapes or bad shapes, it merely assumes them by the very fact of the bearings of its creator.

I remember an encounter with a grey that occurred in my room. It was a small grey but it was white like the tall whites. It made a whirring sound like the sound of a classic flying saucer and at the same time also a sound like metal windchimes, a kind of rolling ringing. It exuded the kind of oppressive paralysis that stops the body moving. It was an experience very much like "sleep paralysis" (I'm not sure that actually exists) and when I came to consciousness, I was already striking out at this grey. My arms were folded up like a praying mantis's arms and I couldn't move them, but at the same time I was lashing out with a psychic arm and the grey was moving backwards and forwards in response to this lashing out.

I was absolutely furious, and the thought occurred that I had been furious before I came to consciousness, and so the fury wasn't actually mine but had been inculcated in me. When I realised I was acting upon a fury that wasn't my own, it completely vanished. I thought to the grey "do not fear me; I do not fear you" and it was as though by disengaging I had soured the milk and this thing split and as it did it's hold over my body broke and I was able to move again.

Other times I have been in contact with their minds I have felt the same sort of thing. They don't really have emotions the way humans have emotions; they don't have the same kind of depth. But they have things that we might call emotions, like a malicious sort of sadism. If you think of hatred, though, you might think of something fiery and emotive, something consuming and burning... but the hatred these things display, it's a weird sort of hatred. It's cold and unfeeling. It's as though their hatred and malice are just facts like numbers in a business ledger.

I think it's why they're so obsessed with human emotion. It's another thing they lack. I think they consider us "containers" because to them we are like them but with something more. They want this something more and consider that this something more is inside us. Actually, of course, it is not that we are something more but that they are something less. Ultimately I expect they want to divorce us from the parts of us which make us different than they are and take our positions; they want their bodies and minds to be host to a soul the way ours are and they know only one way of getting them: taking ours.

Frankly, I think they're all the same, even the reptilians. The darkness of the human mind is no more inherently grey shaped than it is mantis shaped or reptilian shaped. And no, you yourself didn't personally make them

Like I say, they are real in the pragmatic sense that when there is one of them standing over your bed in the middle of the night, it's really there. To say "we made them" is not to say they are fake or imaginary, but to refer to their source on a greater ontological level.

As for the Nordics... I don't recall any experiences with them, so I can't speak from personal experience. The two things I keep in mind are that "good" aliens should be demonstrably good in that they respect human autonomy and secondly I always wonder exactly how much like Earth humans they are. I personally wouldn't want to be taken out of my bedroom in the middle of the night by the British military, so if they are too similar I would have to wonder about what they're getting out of it.

The only primordial man I know of is the androgynous "primordial man" from Qabbalah.

The slave thing I think is a bit of a misnomer, because it implies a hierarchy of sorts. I think of the greys and whatnot as like the borg in Star Trek. They might all be enslaved, but they're enslaved by themselves collectively, if that makes sense? They might have some sort of internal organisational structure, but it's not like a human hierarchy in that I don't think there is a free grey emperor at the top. I think they're all equally enslaved by their overriding impulses and whatever roles appear within the collective, none has any greater degree of real independence. It is like an ant queen — she no more rules the ants than the worker, the only connotations of actual authority originate in the human analogy created by the use of the term "queen".

At the same time, insofar as there is distinction, I think it arises because different types of grey or reptilian arise from different parts of the human psyche. There are some greys that are so sadistic any goal they might have in addition to the simple goal of continual human engagement risks being lost because they get so caught up in the joy of terrorising people.



to be continued

Highland1
13th September 2013, 21:24
Part Five



The very basest parts of the human psyche are those governed by what we call the R complex or reptilian brain, and I think the dominance of these issues is what gives rise to apparent dominance of reptilian types over the greys; it's not that the Reptilian Empire is a hegemon over a polity of greys, but rather that all of them serve this human dysfunction and as R-Complex issues seem to be the dominant factor in human behaviour, the reptilians which are born of this "frequency range" of dysfunction appear to be dominant within the overall faction.

To use an example, it is as though most reptilians are the embodiment of the negative aspects of the root chakra, being greedy, domineering and so on, while the greys are the embodiment of the negative aspects of the sacral or solar plexus chakras, being sexually and emotionally abusive. Of course it's only a rough example, but I think it demonstrates the point sufficiently.

I think there's a distinct possibility that the different types of aliens are embodiments of these spiritual dysfunctions, where the lower down a chakra is, the more beastly the alien is in appearance**. I mentioned in one post about greys lacking the generative faculty — this would very much fit in with any origin in sacral chakra dysfunction. If it is as I suspect and the reptilians are lowest-chakra manifestations (perhaps root chakra and some sacral chakra) and greys are a little more middle-ground (sacral chakra and solar plexus), then it might follow that encounters with more human-looking aliens (say, aliens which natively look more human, rather than appearing so in screen impressions, and so on) are encounters with the manifestations of higher chakra dysfunction. We know that there are many encounters with beings which are spiritually exploitative, such as beings which demand a "merging" of chakras in order to infest the etheric bodies... these could be part of a spectrum of negative and ontologically inferior beings created by human dysfunction.

In that sense, I would see the Nordics (to link back in to Spiral's post) as possible members of a spectrum which spans Nordics/Humans --> Greys --> Reptilians (Crown --> Root). That's not to say I think Nordics necessarily are, but that I anticipate the possibility that there are human-looking beings in the same overall faction as the greys and reptilians, which is borne out in experiences I've heard of (but which are not my own). I am completely open to the possibility that there exist beings which are superficially similar in appearance to humans, greys and reptilians but which are not part of this overall faction, but even if they are very negative they will not have the same fixation with us that these have because they are not created by our dysfunction and so are not dependent upon us continuing to exist in a certain state of spiritual disruption.

** An old representation of this sort of idea is found in the centaur, especially as Sagittarius. It is the melding of a high, human or civilised being with a low, bestial or barbaric being. The centaur in alchemy is a symbol of this: the higher up you go, the less beastly and more refined the apperance.

The chakras deal with certain flavours of energy and because of that distortions in these energies have different effects. The root chakra, for example, is concerned with issues like security and control. When it's unhealthy, people are greedy because they feel a need to keep every possible resource close at hand "just in case" and they are domineering in personal relationships because they fear the vulnerability of not being completely in control.

The different kinds of entities that function on these sorts of energetic frequencies are like tuning forks resonating in response to these frequencies. As you know, when an energy source like a struck piano string emits energy of a frequency with which a tuning fork is resonant, the tuning fork picks up this energy and resonates in turn. Tuning forks which do not resonate with this particular string will not vibrate, though they exist in the same energy field. The various types of negative entities, which I call "darklings" because they're spiritual shadows, are resonant with certain frequencies of human energy. One might be resonant with sexual domination and because of that it would seek to turn humans into paedophiles and rapists, because when that person is in that state of mind, he is emitting the frequency or flavour of energy which that alien thrives upon. At the same time, another alien might resonate with the energy of human ruthlessness, and in order to milk its cattle it would influence people into becoming ruthless so that they were little generators of its own native energy frequency.

If you think of the different kinds of aliens as tuning forks for C, D, E, F, G, A and B and humans as pianos, you will have a better image of what I mean. Tuning fork D will want the pianist to keep striking the D key so that it can absorb its energy. That's how these different sorts of aliens work; they're all parasites manipulating human behaviour to produce a certain kind of energy which they want to leech off. They're all different the way each tuning fork is slightly different, but the modus operandi is the same in all of them.

Do you eat broccoli, pasta or icecream? Whatever it is, it's still eating.

If an alien resonates on a low root chakra frequency, its form will be slightly different than another alien that resonates on a slightly higher frequency. The superficial differences between the alien species (i.e., one looks like a reptile, the other like a grey) is like the differences in length of the tines of a tuning fork; they're physical analogues of the fact that they resonate on different frequencies.

The UFO phenomenon is highly consonant with occult knowledge of demons. Like the way in which the various reptilians and greys are all manifestations of one thing, so too are demons. They are a very broad and diverse ontological category, like a genus for which individual types of alien and demon are species. Now, some entities created in this way might not be as "resolute" or as collectively organised, but they're the same sort of thing the way dew and frost are the same sort of thing. In former ages, when human cultures were primarily religious, it stands to reason that beings which change their nature in response to human thought would take a religious form, and in the present age, when human culture is primarily technological, an alien form is not too surprising — as a curiosity, the first descriptions of devils in mediaeval Europe are as green (not red) beings with scaly skin, inhuman eyes, claws in the place of fingers and sometimes with tails and sometimes without. They were also described as being accompanied by the foulest of smells. All of these traits are shared in common with the reptilians.

That's not to say that all aliens, or even all spirits, are of this kind of nature. I call them ontologically inferior or ontologically dependent because their existence is a consequence of human being. They are like leaves (pretty foul leaves, admittedly) on the human tree. And a leaf is forever dependent upon the tree for the sap which feeds it; a leaf removed is a dying leaf.

For a good, if cursory book about demons, I would recommend Lon Milo Duquette's My Life with the Spirits (The Adventures of a Modern Magician) (PDF viewable here, but well worth the money for a physical copy, like any LMD book).




The hallmarks of demonology from an occult perspective match with many traits found in encounters with negative aliens. For example, anybody dealing with demons is strictly reminded that demons are compulsive liars. They're also reminded that they're manipulative and will do anything in their power to stop you discovering truth or proceeding as you might wish. At the same time, it is possible to exert your superior faculties to bring them under your control, and it is eminently possible for a human mind to thoroughly overwhelm a demon or an alien mind (that is, these aliens which are of this "ontologically inferior" category).

Now like I say, not all entities thrown out by human being will be the same, either of quality or degree. Quality we've already talked about in that entities of different kinds have different energetic preferences. When it comes to degree, some aliens will be more "resolute" as I used the term earlier. I mentioned in a previous post that the darkness in the human psyche which radiates these sorts of creatures is like a dark fog or mist, and this mist can coalesces into something more solid and definite.

It's just an analogy of course to represent in familiar terms the way this works. When humans collectively operate from a root-chakra defect and become greedy and domineering, that particular kind of dark mist is exuded from the collective and as it builds up, it begins to come together to form solid things. It is like the way molecules of gas in a nebula come together and eventually give birth to stars. Now some types of dysfunctions are not constant enough, or strong enough, to produce anything of any great trouble, and so it is as though anything created by sporadic negativity is half-formed, half-intelligent and with only half a purpose. In the same way, most demons that anybody will ever encounter are creations of a personal sort. For example, if you are prone to violent outbursts, it is possible to summon up that violent tendency as a demon and conquer it superconsciously.



To be continued...

Highland1
13th September 2013, 21:26
Part Six

I say "personally" but it is also accurate to say that demons are created interpersonally, for example in unhealthy relationships. Demons created on the collective level will have the same degree of reality to them as the greys, and perhaps the same degree of organisation, though I don't think on this level a distinction between them is all that evident.

Demons as personal or interpersonal creations form the approximate middle on a spectrum of beings ranging from the well-defined or -manifest aliens like the greys and the reptilians on one end, to things like "a bad atmosphere" on the other. The human spirit is like an ever-burning fire, and as the fire burns it throws out smoke. If you could catch this smoke in a large container, you would collect soot. It is as though greys and reptilians are this soot gathered together, while lesser manifestations of human dysfunction are like wisps of smoke, vague and ill-defined (this is really noticeable in very unripened demons because they are irrational and whimsical). The key to human progress and the shaking off of these things from the human collective for good in this analogy would be switching to a smokeless fuel




Ill-Defined

-->

Well-Defined


Personal/Interpersonal

-->

Collective


Fresh

-->

Long-Established


Bad/Creepy Atmospheres

Occult Demons

Parasitic Aliens


This is by no means exhaustive. The key things to remember are that all of these beings/phenomena:

1) are created by the hitherto poorly understand human spiritual creative faculty
2) are therefore ontologically inferior or dependent beings, inferior to and dependent upon humans, which create them
3) are dependent upon humans continuing to live within certain energetic frequencies, because they are collections and condensations of these energetic frequencies
4) will try to perpetuate themselves by ensuring a continual stream of these energetic frequencies (perpetual war, paedophilia, and so on)
5) have no souls the way film characters projected onto a film-screen have no souls
6) are vulnerable to spiritual reassessment and self awareness, because it is in the dark and hidden parts of the human psyche that these things find their origin

They are absolutely not beings of equal spiritual standing as humans, or even animals. They don't really have a spiritual standing at all. Like I said, they are projections of the human psyche and they have no more reality to them than that. You are no more abusing a grey when you force it out of your home than you are killing characters in a film when you turn the DVD off. But the level on which these are created is higher than the physical, incarnational level, and so they seem very real from this low vantage point.

The techniques used to face demons are useful in combatting the greys too. Frequent use of banishing will not only help clear out the energetic atmosphere around you, it will also ingrain in you a tool that can be employed when encountering the greys. In many systems of demonology, threatening demons with fire is an effective method of gaining mastery over them, and the same works with greys. I'm not saying carry around a lighter and a tin of deodorant, but rather talking in this instance of psychic fire. In occult settings actual fire is often used, because it is recognised that any tools used are merely prompts to direct higher faculties, or that they work in tandem with them, so that when the magician uses the sword to lower the sigil-containing box into the flames, he is really subjecting the conjured demon to his own psychic flames. I have had experiences with greys in which I have done exactly the same thing, projecting psychic fire towards them or calling it up to blaze across their flesh, or else I've set off explosions psychically, and so on.

This is completely overlooking the many spirits which are not demons and the many aliens which are not of this type, the "darklings" as I call them. As I say, though, any spirits and aliens not of this type will be less bothered about interfering in human affairs because they do not depend upon us; they do not need to ensure a perpetual supply of human energy because they do not feed on it (or, more accurately, because they are not made of it). This includes negative races of aliens; even rather negative, but spirtually or ontologically independent aliens will have less reason to care what happens to humans (and when it comes to negative aliens, that's a good thing of course) than these beings.

The key thing when dealing with greys or demons is to work from your superconscious and not anything lower. Don't try to reason your way out and certainly don't succumb to emotion, which is their anchor. It is necessary to gain a degree of intimacy with your own higher faculties, at it is these which are employed. The occult arts, when undertaken genuinely and sincerely, and not approached as toys or tools of grandeur and control, are very good instruments for accessing and becoming familiar with these parts of your nature, and the further you bring these higher parts down into your "lower" parts, that is, the more you become familiar with them on lower levels, the more readily and effectively you will be able to employ them.

Addendum

As for higher entities like angels — I suspect many of them are exactly the same, except rather than embodying lower chakra dysfunction, they embody higher chakra dysfunction, spiritual delusions and so on like the people who believe themselves the incarnation of some great god or goddess. I tend to think these are the most devious and convincing of the lot, and I have witnessed this in play. I have to repeat what I said earlier, though; I am by no means saying that every instance of angels or apparently positive aliens are false, but what I said earlier would still be true: such beings would not have the same degree of interest in us that any being dependent upon certain human energies would have. For all a positive alien might have reasons like compassion, any entity which exists because of ajna-chakra dysfunction, for example, has the added incentive of fading into nothingness if we don't continue in that same kind of dysfunction.

Of course, the term "higher" is troubling here, because those entities which only appear angelic or positive, but aren't really, are no higher than the reptilians. It is like a pauper dressing in the king's robes: a king he ain't.

As an example, the heart chakra is the great unifier; it unifies the lower chakras with the higher chakras and it is a source of love (in the sense higher than a mere emotion). Those entities created by collective dysfunctions in the heart energetic frequency range are beings which come in cloaks of light and seem to be very loving, but they seek "union" with people; they ask for a merging of energies, or else they imply that redemption or salvation are dependent upon this kind of merging. What really happens is the entity approaches with a deceiving appearance and requests permission so that it can have free access to your energetic centres and etheric bodies. The kind of dysfunction which breeds these entities is the kind of dysfunction which says "we're all one" in ways which are somewhat inappropriate; it might be true that at the most fundamental level of being we are all one, but in many levels therafter we are not all one. The idea I like to keep in mind to safeguard against this new-age love-and-light delirium is this: if our unity has meaning, so too does our separation. Forcing unity before it is due is dangerous and it is a ploy used by certain clades of creatures to open you up to spiritual predation.

One of the types of being which does this usually appears in a fair form, radiant with light and beckoning arms and all the clichéd crap, but their real form beneath all the projection is like a dark serpent. There are others, but this is a form I have seen. (The member Tuku has also seen these).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



So there you have it folks, a 100% original score which can be continued by your own personal experiences if you wish..................

Deserves a publishing deal if you ask me!





Russ

Breeze
13th September 2013, 21:59
Thank you so very much Highland1, you do not know how much this means to me!

I was away from TOT when this thread started and progressed and never had a chance to sit down and read a single post of it. You have saved a particular thread that I instantly was deeply thinking about last night when I heard that all threads had gone. You are an absolute star - thank you!

And a big THANK YOU also to Seikou-Kishi; I will look forward to reading every single post during my breakfast tomorrow.

Seikou-Kishi
14th September 2013, 01:01
Oh god Russ, I'm touched and humbled that you considered my posts worthy of saving and that you thought to share them. I'm a little lost for words (rejoice! Lol)

Thank you for this.

lookbeyond
14th September 2013, 02:33
Ill look forward to reading these, thankyou both,lb

GCS1103
14th September 2013, 03:54
I've yet to meet anyone who can express their thoughts and experiences as well as Seikou. It's a great talent, my friend. Many thanks to Highland1 for saving your posts so we could all enjoy them.

dianna
14th September 2013, 08:54
Wow, so glad that was saved (thanks Russ) and Seikou, that was really interesting --- will be reading that a couple more times

Wolf Khan
14th September 2013, 09:13
Greys are just cloned flesh without the processes involved the universe provided no souls for these freaks so they try to get our dna and sperm samples to breed into themnselves a soul, thinking that is how it is done, they are like the cabal same creation principle of cloning exists here to, I like dead cabal and greys too..sorry if this offends anyone.

Eelco
14th September 2013, 09:33
not offended. just wandering.

I have trouble seeing any animate being. whether cloned or otherwise as not being worthy of basic human compassion. the fact the grey go through an awful effort to remain alive tells me they have a fear of dying. that puts them on the same page with every human basics. The fear of death is that which made us evolve and seek out answers too.

should we sink to annihalation because of what they do to us. or can we rise above that.

with love
eelco

Seikou-Kishi
14th September 2013, 12:43
not offended. just wandering.

I have trouble seeing any animate being. whether cloned or otherwise as not being worthy of basic human compassion. the fact the grey go through an awful effort to remain alive tells me they have a fear of dying. that puts them on the same page with every human basics. The fear of death is that which made us evolve and seek out answers too.

should we sink to annihalation because of what they do to us. or can we rise above that.

with love
eelco

Clostridium difficile also seeks to remain alive.

Compassion is a natural result of empathy. Empathy is a function of the soul, of two souls together. What has no soul cannot receive empathy however much you might like to send it. It is like talking to the wall because you cannot stand to ignore bricks whose stubborn determination to hang on in there seems like a sign of life.

Eelco
14th September 2013, 13:49
First off i feel I have to mention I have no memory of ever being abducted or even been in contact with a Grey. So with that in mind all I am saying is just conjecture.

I have written about eliminating a nest of reptilians before. They were definitely not Greys and looked something like warhammer snotlings. When I conjured up a vortex to mother earths aurora( with her help) they seemed quite happy to jump in and be “recasted” as I’d come to understand it.

Over the years I have met with different points of view about the Greys and it seems that in time the prevailing wind is one that characterizes them as not having a soul and thus not worthy of existence.

That notion alone is something I fail to agree upon on face value.

In that I do not feel I am condoning any mishap the grey are doing to us. I do not.

Just as I do have some slight remorse every time I or one of my children have to take antibiotics. I do feel for them. Whether that feeling is shared or not is besides the point as far as I am concerned.

So it is my soul or me that feels empathy, without the need for it to be returned by another soul.

The fact they were made like Frankenstein, or a Gollem does not change the fact that they have some kind of life/ rudimentary animation?. The fact they are able to device ways in order to get what the need or want does suggest some intelligence. That alone to me suggest I should investigate further until deciding they are not worthy to be animated.

I stand with those that are harmed by them as well as by them that are harmed by us. Sharing in the mysteries and 10.000 sorrows of being alive

With Love

Eelco

Seikou-Kishi
14th September 2013, 16:44
First off i feel I have to mention I have no memory of ever being abducted or even been in contact with a Grey. So with that in mind all I am saying is just conjecture

...

With Love

Eelco

Thanks for this post.

I did a quick google images search and snotling looks like a goblin or something. Is this accurate?

As for the greys... you know I know what you're saying. In the same way that you say saying they are not soulless is not condoning their behaviour (they're two completely separate things, you're right), when I say that they are soulless, it is not condemning them or judging their nature. In the same way, just because I say that they are soulless, it does not follow that anything can be done to them. I say that there are two victims in any injustice: the person subjected to the injustice and the one who inflicts it, because the one who inflicts it makes himself unjust (or at least "the sort of person who does X"). So if somebody thought that it was an easy leap to say "greys are soulless or ontologically inferior, therefore it doesn't matter if we enslave them and make them work for us", I would not like to live in that world either. Even if I believed that the greys were soulless and thus not really able to care about their slavery, there is the parallel: do I deserve better than being a slave master? I think I do.

When somebody cheats on their partner... I am quite liberal with my distaste. But I think for all the cheated-upon dislikes what has happened, they can move on, find somebody better (or be single) and be perfectly fine. The person who cheated will carry around the stain of being a cheat for the rest of their life; where ever they could go, they could never get away from the fact that they put their lust over their fidelity.

When I say they are soulless, it is not a value judgement. I do not hate them, I feel nothing for them, which frankly seems to be the appropriate response. I do not say it either as a hyperbolic sort of insult the way we say it of depraved people. When I say they are soulless, I mean that there is a gap between the physical and the source. Everything originates in the spiritual source, and the way matter can be simple or complex, so too can this underlying "mindfulness" fabric be gathered together in simple patterns or complex patterns. Human bodies are very complex arrangements of matter. In the same way, a human soul is a very complex arrangement of "soul stuff". This is in contradistinction to the greys, whose bodies are complex like ours, but there is no complexity of soul stuff behind it, only a vague and ill defined sheet.

This is because they do not come from the source the way we do, they come from humans. Humans have a spiritual creative faculty, but whatever is created by us by definition must be inferior to us. I know I keep using the phrase, but there's not really a better way of saying "ontologically inferior". Their existence is of a lower order. It is not hateful to say that amino acids are more complex than carbon dioxide, or to say that a human body is more complex than an amoeba's. In the same way, to say that the greys are ontologically inferior is to acknowledge that their existence (their ontology) depends upon human existence, and is less complex than it.

Nothing at all can be absolutely soulless in the broadest possible sense of a soul in which everything in the world has a soul. If soul-stuff were a fabric, they would be sackcloth and we would be tapestries of cloth of gold. A human soul is infinitely complex, colourful and intricate, theirs is bland, empty and undifferentiated. I know the temptation is to feel sympathy for these creatures. It sounds absolutely horrible to think of something soulless desperately trying to arrange a soul for itself. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's a mangaka somewhere eagerly doodling away along those lines lol. But you view that shallowness and emptiness from your perspective, a perspective which knows only depth and fullness. Have you ever felt apathy? I do not mean an irksome feeling of boredom, I mean sheer nothingness, the yawning chasm. The emptiness is painful and can only be described in contradiction like "a deafening silence"

But even that is not close to it. For one thing, it is not possible for us to be as empty as they are. We can approach it but we can never reach it. At the same time, apathy of that deeply wounding sort is only as painful as it is because our nature is fullness and brilliance. They do not feel pained by their situation the way you would feel pained in their place, or even just looking on. The pain humans feel with apathy can be very strong, and I include physical pain as well as emotional pain — but we only feel this because this emptiness is not our native state. We do not sit here lamenting the feelings our computers will never feel. You have children, don't you? Do you ever look at their stuffed toys and say "it's a shame they'll never love them back"? Of course not, because we know better.

In the same way, grey aliens come somewhere between your children's stuffed toys and humans: they have all the physical reality and complexity to them that humans have, but like the toys they have none of the soul's reality or complexity. That is, although we can look at stuffed toys and say "they're not real the way I am real", we cannot at first glance do the same with the greys because all the information of the physical senses says that they are real the way we are real. The difference is that on a spiritual level, we realise them to be human creations as surely as the toys are.

This is what I mean when I say if there is one in your room, you can be pretty sure it's really there. Closing your eyes and saying there's no such thing as monsters won't make it disappear. The human conscious created toys, and so the human conscious can recognise their true nature, but greys were created by a higher spiritual faculty and so it takes a higher faculty to recognise the creation. To put it another way, your higher faculties are so completely convincing to your lower faculties that the greys seem in all ways to be completely real to those lower senses. Imagine giving a blind man a ball and telling him it was red. How could he ever contradict you? The superior sense can deceive the inferior sense so completely that the unreal seems real until you step back and get the broader view — this is essential for human incarnation, of course; if we do not believe physical existence has some reality to it, how will being here ever mean anything?

This is also why I think a person's behaviour to the greys is different than how they treat their kid's toy or how ruthlessly they turn off the film they're watching and see the characters extinguished. Down here, we know that the toy and the film characters are not real, but all the evidence of our senses tells us that the greys are. We cannot abuse them and use this as an excuse because even as we said it, we would be doubting it.

To give an example, say you had been flirting with a strange woman through emails and text messages and all behind your wife's back. Say this built up and you sent her pictures. In swoops your wife with all the pictures you've sent and accuses you of cheating: in reality, the mystery woman with an interest in you was your wife. You could legitimately say that you hadn't sent any pictures to other women, but since you thought you had, that idea, although true, would not relieve you of guilt. I think of the greys the same way; for all I know they're really not ducks, if they're quacking like ducks and I cannot help but be convinced that they are ducks despite my knowledge and yet throw poisoned bread out onto the water, then I am guilty not because anything objectively wrong took place, but because I am almost certain to have believed on some level that what I was doing was wrong: if I believe they are ontologically equal beings and treat them badly, it does not exculpate me to realise that they are not ontologically equal*.

(* When I say "inferior" and "equal", and so on, I always mean in this ontological sense. I realise the phrase has long since become hackneyed, but I want to use it rather than imply that I am making a value judgement when that is not the case)

Ideas that might help elaborate on my meaning might be garnered in acquaintance with "justified true belief" and the "Gettier problems". Essentially, in the theory of knowledge in philosophy, there was a definition of knowledge as "justified true belief". An idea was knowledge if it was accepted (believed), if it was true, and if belief in the idea was justified. (How one determines what is true, what is belief and what is justification are three completely separate questions). The Gettier problem was found by an obscure philosopher called Edmund Gettier, who realised it was possible to have justified true belief that wasn't knowledge.

As an example. You get out of your car and go into your house, where you think you're alone. Unbeknownst to you, your wife is home. She slips out, gets in your car drives into town, then she comes home, parking your car exactly where you'd parked it. You sit down and believe that your car is outside, that belief is justified because you remember leaving it there, and that belief happens to be true. That idea might help to clarify what I mean a little, if I make any sense at all.

Breeze
14th September 2013, 19:43
Hello to everyone reading this thread,

My weekend is exceptionally busy, but I just wanted to touch base quickly and say, I have just spent the last 2 hours reading every post on this thread (finally at long last I found a quiet window of time to read this; I have been wanting to do this since it's inception on the old TOT).

WOW, Seikou-kishi, I had no idea you had decided to write a thread on this level of understanding; I personally find it very nourishing.

Also I find this so very, very promising that this type of discussion has progressed 'openly' without any knee jerk reactions bleating out the popular controlling killer catchphrase "fear porn!" that intentionally kills the discussion and thread. Such deep level discussions are so important, yet unfortunately rarely gets to see the light of day because social consciousness wants fluffy light talk that makes them 'feel' good - unbeknownst missing the point that this very subject level is very much a part of the human conscious awakening (re-remembering) and understanding 'whys', 'reasons' and significance of BEcoming mind-full, self responsible, sovereign, co-creator god BEings again.

Thank you S-K, I so enjoy reading your posts of nourishing knowledge and experiences.

Thank you Russ for saving these most valuable posts, so those like myself who missed it, could now read it. And thanks also to the members who have been asking some very deep questions on this subject. This is certainly a thread where great gems of knowledge reside. :cool:

I will return to this thread in a few days to engage in this very enlightening discussion with you all.

Seikou-Kishi my mind is spiraling right now in many different directions and angles, a space where my contemplations has not gone before - thank you! :D

Bright Blessings
Breeze X

Eelco
15th September 2013, 03:50
Thanks for this post.

I did a quick google images search and snotling looks like a goblin or something. Is this accurate?

Yes very much so.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/f9/Snot.jpg

Thank you S-K for your thorough explanation.
Much of what you say does make sense. I am glad you make the distiction stating what you persieve as fact (Greys are soulless) and your judgement or idea of what should be done about them.



So if somebody thought that it was an easy leap to say "greys are soulless or ontologically inferior, therefore it doesn't matter if we enslave them and make them work for us", I would not like to live in that world either.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier on.

I am having a herd time accepting their soullesness though. I find myself unable to come up with a (to myself) believable animated entity that would be without any kind of hint of a soul. It is making me wonder again what this souls stuff is all about.
Bo Yin Ra writes about it as stuff to and may have shaped my views on it a bit.(been years since i read that part)

Anyway what we call our soul. The intricately complex soul we humans try to embody to the more simpler manifestations of soul that are out there in the multiverse..
Its not fixed.. My soul is for ever changing, accumulation more or less soul stuff at times. Unrealized soul falls away whilst new possibilities and soul bits arise. Much like the ebb and flow of life..
Life like the ocean in that sense will have the same amount of soul-stuff as the ocean has water. The bit I embody differs at times. like a raindrop that was able to grow or shrink in size( to make a very faulty picture)

One more thing about empathy or loving-kindness
It really isn't about the other ones recieving it. It is about myself giving it freely, fully and totaly.

with Love
Eelco

Eelco
15th September 2013, 07:27
I have been going over the posts and started several replies.
each time I had written down something and read on you explained perfectly what my reply stated.
So I stopped my efforts and can only commend you on your deep and throrough understanding of this matter.

I think I see now, and from that realize how the Grey are like a dream. A nightmare that will end when we wake up from our self-chosen slavery to fear..
All that is needed is for us to wake up.

With Love
Eelco

Breeze
15th September 2013, 12:20
I have been going over the posts and started several replies.
each time I had written down something and read on you explained perfectly what my reply stated.
So I stopped my efforts and can only commend you on your deep and throrough understanding of this matter.

I think I see now, and from that realize how the Grey are like a dream. A nightmare that will end when we wake up from our self-chosen slavery to fear..
All that is needed is for us to wake up.

With Love
Eelco


I totally agree with your words Catsquotl – Seikou-Kishi has answered everything from all angles in these posts for those who have the patience to re-read and absorb carefully all that he is saying. This is a masterpiece of work.

The term ‘soulless’ can spring up a whole host of thoughts and confusions in one’s mind especially as we have a history here on Earth were the term Soulless has been terribly abused to justify controlling slavery over souls.

So in the little time I have today, I thought I would share a very simple example of a soulless entity that comes to my mind from personal experience. I say soulless entity but in truth it is more liken to a ‘echo’, ‘shadow’ or ‘phantom’. What also will become clear is that our thoughts really do matter as you will see by the following example.

I have a friend I have known for the past 13 years, he is a dear soul, yet unfortunately most of his waking state is consumed by alcohol. Over the past 8 years I have refused his telephone calls if he is drunk and non compos mentis – I just don’t have time to waste on conversations that will be forgotten in 2 minutes or time to listen to nonsensical ramblings.

So over the past 8 years, respecting my rule, he has sat in his chair at home thinking how he would like to speak to me about ‘something’ countless times over on a daily basis. Each of these singular thoughts started to accrue within his energy fields and then into the Morphic Fields. They also had a thought tag associate with me.

As the years when on, at some point this energy cloud of specific thought became strong enough to become a ‘shadow form’ and created an exact shadow form of my friend that would hang around outside a window in my house.

To clarify, this shadow form was not my physical friend, but created purely from his repetitive thoughts. This shadow form had no mind, intelligence, life force or soul – it was a lost shadow thought form with only one operative, the urge to speak to me – but no sense of what it wanted to speak about.

Thankfully these type of thought form shadows are harmless and easy to neutralise.

My physical friend had absolutely zero idea his passing thoughts secret in his mind had even created this shadow – let alone that such a thing was possible.

This is a very simple example of how our thoughts really do matter. As I understand it, this planet is one of the training grounds for co-creator gods, and one of the first lessons is to understand the power of our thought and how to be consciously mind-full in ALL ways.

What Seikou-Kishi is writing about re the Greys many people experience is fascinating and very deep in meaning as the topic enters into a collective Morphic Field of thought shadows, (as I understand this). I will return to this thread when I have more time.

I hope my simple story makes sense explaining the difference to an entity that has a Soul and Spirit oppose to a shadow-form/echo/phantom.

Eelco
15th September 2013, 12:38
I was thinking about some of the questions raised in this thread.
Especially the hints at Soul-stuff. My own thoughts about that like your phanthom figure makes me just throw it out here, even though It may not tie in with the Grey matter at all.(pun intended)

So a few years ago when i was contemplating Karma or Kamma I had the realization that every thought which was ever thought has within it the drive for completion(back to source?). My idea is that somehow thoughts are made up of the same soul-stuff we embody in more intricate and complex manifestation. So with that it becomes even more apparant we should take care of what we think. As it is the basis for what we encounter as parts of our soul externalized.

Every thought we thought and don't allow to complete either through transforming it or acting it out will somehow stay bound as a soul-experience that needs to be experienced. If Reincarnation exists or even if it doesn't every new birth on earth, every new life will somehow conjure up its own thoughts and soul experiences, but also gather thoughts that are waiting for completion.

Your phantom and even our fears made flesh in Greys are thus made up off soul-stuff.
The chinese have this concept they call Chi/Qi or Ki in japanese. In its most basic translation that words means "basic stuff". The more I think about it the more I believe that Qi is basic stuff is soul.

I think its time to look at some transformative meditations... Breathing in all "evil" Transforming it in my heart and breathing out blessings of happines, peace and joy.

With Love
eelco

Breeze
15th September 2013, 13:14
...Every thought we thought and don't allow to complete either through transforming it or acting it out will somehow stay bound as a soul-experience that needs to be experienced. If Reincarnation exists or even if it doesn't every new birth on earth, every new life will somehow conjure up its own thoughts and soul experiences, but also gather thoughts that are waiting for completion.



Dear Catsquotl, I so love your deep thoughts!

Yes you are right, this ventures into the subject of Soul and Life Reviews.

Seikou-Kishi
15th September 2013, 15:15
Also I find this so very, very promising that this type of discussion has progressed 'openly' without any knee jerk reactions bleating out the popular controlling killer catchphrase "fear porn!" that intentionally kills the discussion and thread. Such deep level discussions are so important, yet unfortunately rarely gets to see the light of day because social consciousness wants fluffy light talk that makes them 'feel' good - unbeknownst missing the point that this very subject level is very much a part of the human conscious awakening (re-remembering) and understanding 'whys', 'reasons' and significance of BEcoming mind-full, self responsible, sovereign, co-creator god BEings again.

I am glad too; I have been very grateful for the level of maturity involved in discussing this topic and the ability of people not to assume that x automatically implies y. When I was younger, I received an education both in philosophy and in the more nuts-and-bolts critical thinking. I was taught to find the argument and trim the fat, so to speak, and it has always been in my nature to do this but I realised there were names for it. There are true arguments and then there is a lot of dressing. This dressing generally takes the form of unsound arguments, value judgements, and breaches of things like the fact-value gap (the is-ought gap)1. As an example, people often respond to comments on emotive topics with the phrase "that's offensive" — it's not an argument by the philosophical or rational definition, it's an appeal to emotional (it's very obvious to see how people who's arguments are dissected fall back to a position of complaining about a perceived insult).

I remember being in a debate when I was studying normative ethics. There were three people on each team (the two teams together being the entire class lol) and my team had to defend Utilitarianism (the greatest happiness to the greatest number) while the other team had to defend Kantian Deontology (categorical imperatives and duty-theory). Now for all I disagreed with most ideas of Deontology, I preferred it over Utilitarianism because the latter failed (and still does, in my opinion) to make any distinction between baser ideas of happiness like pleasure and higher ideas like Aristotlean Eudaimonia.

Anyway, I was the captain of my team because I wasn't backwards in coming forwards when it came to debating (lol). My teammates were mutinous by the end because I was just as likely to point out the speciousness and unsoundness of their arguments as the arguments of the opposition. In a debate between those interested in philosophy, the goal in my opinion is the enjoyment of pure reasoning; winning is political, not philosophical. To me, such a debate is a mental exercise, an indulgence in mental gymnastics. The one who deserves to "win" such a debate is the one whose reasoning is the soundest, not the one who says what we want to hear.

At the end of the debate, it was decided that I had been the best debater and frankly I think that was an accurate decision. I'll always remember though at the end my teacher asked me if the debate had changed my opinion at all (because the Utilitarian team won the debate). I said "I still favour Deontology over Utilitarianism, if that's what you mean, but if I'd been waiting for the other team to convince me, I'd have been waiting an age" lol. There was one person on my team I thought of as a bit of a dishonourable or misguided debater because he made an argument that was speciousness personified and freely admitted afterwards that he'd known that before he said it. When it was my next turn to speak, I'd made a list of all the arguments I'd heard, from both sides, and why each of them was illogical. Values are partial, logic is impartial.

The person I'm talking about complained to me that I wasn't a very good captain for pointing out the errors in my own team's reasoning. I told him that was a politician's complaint, not a philosopher's.


http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2636/u928.png

1 the fact-value or is-ought gap is a gap between statements which reveal something about the world and the way this doesn't automatically lead into a value judgement. For example, the argument "the Aztecs are uncivilised, thus the conquistadors should Christianise them". Even if it is true that the Aztecs were uncivilised, and even if it is true that Christianisation would civilise them (even if it were the only possibility of civilisation), it doesn't follow. I'm afraid that this also appplies to good things such as the idea "there are hungry people in the world, thus we should feed them". I bridge this gap by realising two things about logic: first, that logic is not an objective, global truth independent of value; and second that arguments do not exist in a vacuum, but rather in relation to people as argument-makers and argument-subjects.

And so I bridge the gap with a personalising hypothetical imperative. Take the example of feeding the hungry. Between the x of "there are hungry people in the world" and the y of "thus we should feed them", I insert my hypothetical imperative: there are hungry people in the world, and if we are the sort of people who feed the hungry, we should feed the hungry people in the world.

This also relates to my saying that any ontological inferiority of greys doesn't necessarily imply anything about how we treat them. The "personalising hypothetical imperative" I use to bridge the fact-value gap in this instance would be "and if we are the sort of people who enslave/abuse our (ontological) inferiors... " and I do not want to be the sort of person who does that, thus for me the answer is clear. It's also up to every rational person to ask themselves, however, if they are such a person and I cannot answer it for them, but I can say something else about myself: I am not the sort of person who could watch people enslaving or abusing their (ontological) inferiors without intervening. Technically, the hypothetical imperative is a merging of a hypothesis and the value of the fact-value pair.

Hypothetical Bridging of the Fact-Value Gap:
The fact is in red (whether or not it's a true fact is irrelevant for the examples), the hypothesis is in green and the value is in blue. The hypothesis and value together form the hypothetical imperative (in cyan) only where the hypothesis is true:

There are hungry people in the world, if I am the sort of person who feeds the hungry, then I should feed them
There are hungry people in the world, and I should feed them

The greys are ontologically inferior beings, if I am the sort of person who enslaves or abuses the ontologically inferior, then I should enslave or abuse them
The greys are ontologically inferior beings, and I should enslave or abuse them

As you can see, the imperative only follows if the hypothesis is true: we should only feed the hungry, clothe the naked or house the homeless if we have decided that we are the sort of person who does that. At the same time, we have to have agreed that we are an enslaver or abuser of our inferiors before we can attack the greys.

These arguments are very basic in that there is only one example of each part. An argument might be based upon multiple facts, involve multiple hypotheses about ourselves and lead to multiple possible actions. Even in the simplest example, there is a hypothesis of "and if I believe that the fact is true"; there might be hungry people in the world, and I might be the sort of person who would feed them, but even if I am such a person, if I believe that all the people in the world are well fed, I cannot do anything.


http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2636/u928.png

Sorry that was a very long diversion, but that is where I am coming from. So often we see people making statements about how things are as though it necessarily leads to something else. I am glad that the members here are able to divorce the question of whether or not the greys are ontologically inferior from all the other questions like how we respond to them. Kids have a really good response to that lack of logical integrity: so what? They may or may not be ontologically inferior, that implies nothing about how we respond to them.

Frankly, I think if humankind gets its affairs in order, the greys will naturally wane into oblivion and from a purely pragmatic point of view we don't "have" to do anything about them. A fact like the greys' ontological inferiority can have "factual" implications (the way the factual idea of a bottle of water in the freezer has the factual implication of freezing), but not moral or value-based implications without help from hypothetical constructs. An "is" can lead to any number of "ises", but not to a single "ought/should" without at least one "if", and all human personality hangs in those "if"s.

Eelco
15th September 2013, 15:36
Dear Seikhu-Kishi,

I bow to your wisdom and knack of explaining exactly what you wish to explain..
I honestly am at a loss for words that can express the wonder and deep respect I have for the way you are able to express yourself..
This one is in the for those with ears that hear...


With Love
Eelco

Seikou-Kishi
15th September 2013, 15:38
Also I find this so very, very promising that this type of discussion has progressed 'openly' without any knee jerk reactions bleating out the popular controlling killer catchphrase "fear porn!" that intentionally kills the discussion and thread. Such deep level discussions are so important, yet unfortunately rarely gets to see the light of day because social consciousness wants fluffy light talk that makes them 'feel' good - unbeknownst missing the point that this very subject level is very much a part of the human conscious awakening (re-remembering) and understanding 'whys', 'reasons' and significance of BEcoming mind-full, self responsible, sovereign, co-creator god BEings again.

Sorry, all that blithering and I still haven't finished with this quote (lol).

I completely agree. The only qualification I would like to add is that being co-creator god beings is the essential quality of humanity. Creating isn't something we do like a carpenter shaping wood on a lathe, it is something that happens automatically by the very fact of our existence. Finding an "instance of holistic humanness happening in the world" that doesn't create is like looking for a light that does shine. Humans emanate creation like a light source emanating light and we emanate this creation even when we forget that that is our nature. We do not have to re-initiate the human creative faculty like getting in a car and turning the ignition, we have to realise that the car is moving and has always been moving and put our hands back on the wheel.

Creation isn't a question of human doing, but of human being and we can no sooner stop creating than we can stop being.


I am having a herd time accepting their soullesness though. I find myself unable to come up with a (to myself) believable animated entity that would be without any kind of hint of a soul. It is making me wonder again what this souls stuff is all about.
Bo Yin Ra writes about it as stuff to and may have shaped my views on it a bit.(been years since i read that part)

Take a look at human procreation. When a baby is born, that body has been created in the womb by material supplied by both parents. The soul and spirit of the baby, however, are not created. Humans are able to further their own species by creating bodies of their own kind, but a soul has to come in from outside. If a human spirit wishes to be incarnated on earth, it enlists the help of spirits to generate a body for it, but two spirits do not come together and generate a third spirit. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as reincarnation because each soul would be created by sex (an absurdity) and we would live in a world in which Darwinism reached up to the highest levels of existence. If two humans together can create a single body, why can't the human race collectively create a race of bodies?

If we do not have the power to create a spirit, which must come from the source itself, the races of bodies we create because we do not have our hands on the steering wheel of our highest faculties will be bodies created not for the habitation of a spirit. And on the level of spirit which recognises the human creation of the greys, no spirit is going to consider a grey a worthy body. So many incarnated humans express desires about future lives. Some want to come back a king, others as powerful animals, but who has ever said they want to come back as Pinocchio? Look at me, I'm a real boy!

Part of me suspects that this is the motivation behind transhumanism, trying to get the human spirit used to the idea of existing in artificial bodies — the hope being that as human conscious art created a robotic or cybernetic body for the human mind to inhabit, so might a human spirit deign to inhabit a biological but artificial body which a human superconscious art had created.

As surely as the human mind acknowledges everything which it creates as false, so too does the human spirit acknowledge everything which it creates as less real than it. I think of human spirits as very much in school to becoming plenipotentiary creators. Could you imagine what deep crap we would be in if human beings, full of darkness, had the ability to create a race as vile as the greys that we also our equals, with all the powers of the human spirit? We'd be an absolute menace, to ourselves and anything around us.

And so, right now, they are not the same as we are and never can be for all their attempts to change that. They are the shadows that dance on the wall of our Platonic cave; as soon as we leave the cave and take our light with us, they will by their very nature disappear. It is not an act of destruction or of hatred, merely a change of perspective. They will not die out as humans cruelly abolish their existence, we will merely move from the idea that they exist to the realisation that they never did.

Breeze
15th September 2013, 23:55
I am either having a weird moment here after returning from seeing my friend tonight, clicking into this thread many hours later on............... where is my last post (and including others) that have disappeared that I saw and read beforehand (around 6pm-7pm)............. Am I doing deja vu or is this a new timeline or just a computer glitch? Where have the posts gone?????????????????????

I obviously need to create my day with more focus and intent as my friend would advise to stop such inconsistencies.

Breeze
16th September 2013, 00:24
[QUOTE=Seikou-Kishi;734]Sorry, all that blithering and I still haven't finished with this quote (lol).

I completely agree. The only qualification I would like to add is that being co-creator god beings is the essential quality of humanity. Creating isn't something we do like a carpenter shaping wood on a lathe, it is something that happens automatically by the very fact of our existence. Finding an "instance of holistic humanness happening in the world" that doesn't create is like looking for a light that does shine. Humans emanate creation like a light source emanating light and we emanate this creation even when we forget that that is our nature. We do not have to re-initiate the human creative faculty like getting in a car and turning the ignition, we have to realise that the car is moving and has always been moving and put our hands back on the wheel.

Creation isn't a question of human doing, but of human being and we can no sooner stop creating than we can stop being. [/QUOTE}


I totally agree Seikou-kishi with your words, thank you for pointing this out.

I see in my post I omitted the word 'conscious' co-creator god BEings again - it was a typo error slacking behind my mind pace/speed. BEing Conscious makes all the difference. I should have re-read my post before clicking 'go'.

We are always creating, it is a natural state of Beingness whether it is conscious of unconscious. Smile.

Eelco
16th September 2013, 03:26
Hi,

Aww there were some beautiful posts before here. In skillfully wrenched,crafted and transmuted english to get to some deeper truths..
Ah wel.. Let it Be as someones mother used to say.

With Love
Eelco

Eelco
16th September 2013, 06:29
Hypothetical Bridging of the Fact-Value Gap:
The fact is in red (whether or not it's a true fact is irrelevant for the examples), the hypothesis is in green and the value is in blue. The hypothesis and value together form the hypothetical imperative (in cyan) only where the hypothesis is true:

There are hungry people in the world, if I am the sort of person who feeds the hungry, then I should feed them
There are hungry people in the world, and I should feed them

The greys are ontologically inferior beings, if I am the sort of person who enslaves or abuses the ontologically inferior, then I should enslave or abuse them
The greys are ontologically inferior beings, and I should enslave or abuse them

As you can see, the imperative only follows if the hypothesis is true: we should only feed the hungry, clothe the naked or house the homeless if we have decided that we are the sort of person who does that. At the same time, we have to have agreed that we are an enslaver or abuser of our inferiors before we can attack the greys.


This is the part to which I Bow.
A very wise and profoundly insightful look at how we humans reach our not so logical conclusions at times and an incentive to keep investigating ones own intentions and believe systems...

With Love
Eelco

Tonz
16th September 2013, 10:35
Thankyou Seikou-Kishi, first of all,as i had missed this some how and am going through it now.
Wow, your maturity and power within is massive,and is complimented with your literature skills , that is ,for me , a reflection of your absolute oneness.
Your work at times is just so very rewarding for many of us and this one is one of many.

Thankyou Highland1,as I in absolute agreement ,conserving this work is a must.

Highland1
16th January 2015, 16:25
With all the recent threads on ET lately,
I thought it a good idea to bump this thread for all the newbies.

Russ

john parslow
16th January 2015, 20:30
Wow Russ, thank you so much for saving this gem from Seikou, I don't know how but I seem to have missed this the first time round! Grateful thanks also to Seikou for his profound insight and taking the trouble to share it with us.

Love you guys. JP :whstl:

Bob
16th January 2015, 21:00
Seek always to do some good, somewhere. Everyman has to seek in his own way to realize his true worth. You must give some time to your fellow man. Even if it's a little thing, do something for those who need help, something for which you get no pay but the privilege of doing it. For remember, you don't live in a world all your own. Your brothers are here too.


The race of mankind would perish did they cease to aid each other. We cannot exist without mutual help. All, therefore, that need aid have a right to ask it from their fellow men; and no one who has the power of granting can refuse it without guilt.


A benefit consists not in what is done or given, but in the intention of the giver or doer.


To laugh often and to love much; to win the respect of intelligent persons and the affection of children; to earn the approbation of honest critics and to endure the betrayal of false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others; to give of oneself; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition; to have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung with exultation; to know that even one life has breathed easier because you have lived - this is to have succeeded.


An attitude of gratitude creates blessings. Help yourself by helping others. You have the most powerful weapons on earth - love and prayer.


I shall pass through this world but once. Any good therefore that I can do or any kindness that I can show to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.

:victorious:

(PS - I left the Aristotelian (http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2n.htm) logic diatribe a long long time ago in light of Humanity, which is more important to me than A:A:A ,, add the right brain plus the left brain plus the heart and git down to living imho)

jimmer
17th January 2015, 17:00
I agree with russ, SK should consider publishing, Fifty Shades of Grey.

have you heard of the e-author, andy weir, who's Amazon self published book, the martian (http://www.andyweirauthor.com),
is now in production as a movie, directed by ridley scott?

one never knows...

what a fascinating read.
kudos, SK.

Frances
15th February 2015, 23:19
i am taking another re-read of this thread.
Thank you Russ and Samos for a memory refresh.
i have saved it for my future reading, and another look at the words of Seikou-Kishi.
Frances.