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Pris
25th March 2015, 20:17
This thread arose from the following thread:

Raju The Elephant Cries While Being Rescued After 50 Years

►http://jandeane81.com/threads/6071-Raju-The-Elephant-Cries-While-Being-Rescued-After-50-Years?p=841906804&viewfull=1#post841906804

I've been thinking about this story for a couple of days now trying to figure out what bothers me the most.

Was it the handlers who tormented and tortured this elephant for 50 years?
Was it the fact there there's a demand for this sort of thing otherwise they wouldn't be using elephants like this?
What kind of people pay money to get a 'blessing' from a chained and tortured elephant whilst plucking out a hair from its tail for good luck?
What kind of people 'make a living' fashioning elephant shackles with spikes no less?
WHY did it take 50 years to rescue this elephant?
Is this a common practice and is this 'just' another abused elephant?

Then, I stopped being myopic.
I started asking myself critical questions as opposed to emotional ones.

One question I asked myself: what is the main reason behind this kind of cruelty and despicable action by human beings against other living beings -- including themselves -- on this planet?

It all comes back to making a few bucks. Survival.

We can literally thank the Cabal for all this -- by keeping all of us enslaved and in survival mode. Here we are, living in fear -- in a world of lack and limitation that they've invented for us.

Thanks to the monetary system, people will do the most despicable acts. All actions are justifiable for survival, power and control.

Money is the root of the problem so it can't be used to 'fix' the problems caused by it.

One slave master rules over and tortures another slave master and on and on it goes. We are all victims.

What we are seeing here is not 'just' a story of a tortured elephant. This is the story of the torture of all of human kind as well.

We are sitting on the edge of a 'new world' -- not a 'new world order'. This is a new world that ends control over others, competition and slavery, and begins a new era of equality and equity, compassion and cooperation. There will be no more ownership over anyone or anything as we become custodians of the planet.

With the abolition of money and all forms of barter and trade, we will cast off our chains.

Will sharing everything freely solve all our problems? No, of course not. But, it will solve most of them.

The way I see it, at the moment we're looking at a system that works for the good of all maybe 10% of the time. Let's get it up to 90% or better.



Who's with me?

http://www.mobiles24.com/static/previews/downloads/default/331/P-591130-qtGsiS3V4M-1.jpg

PurpleLama
25th March 2015, 20:26
Everyone shares and gives freely of what they have to those who need?

Momlvsducks
25th March 2015, 20:27
Hmmm-- it is interesting to find someone who thinks like I do...

I am not sure how we can abolish the monetary system because

we don't all work equally.

Some of us are lazy.

It is not fair for a man to work really hard and see his own children do without because

his neighbor reproduces like a rabbit and doesn't ever work.

So- some people will always earn more than another person.


This monetary system we have is more like a counterfeiting operation - those who own the

printing press don't work - but scam the rest instead.


So- maybe there is a way to have trade without the counterfeiting part.....

PurpleLama
25th March 2015, 20:29
I would be fine with that.

Shezbeth
25th March 2015, 20:31
TBH, I am all for abolishing the money system, but I'm also in complete agreement with Mom's assertions.

I am particularly observed/experienced of/with individuals who possess the same (greater even) capacity to work and be productive (whether for their own sake or for that of a group) but who just don't want to. While I would love for there to be an elimination of the predatory counterfeit system we have, I have a hard time envisioning an alternative that would more effectively encourage (and/or provide consequence for the lack of) mutual and sincere participation.

Pris
25th March 2015, 20:36
Hmmm-- it is interesting to find someone who thinks like I do...

I am not sure how we can abolish the monetary system because

we don't all work equally.

Some of us are lazy.

It is not fair for a man to work really hard and see his own children do without because

his neighbor reproduces like a rabbit and doesn't ever work.

So- some people will always earn more than another person.


This monetary system we have is more like a counterfeiting operation - those who own the

printing press don't work - but scam the rest instead.


So- maybe there is a way to have trade without the counterfeiting part.....

Nothing about being alive is 'fair'. We do what we can do because we 'should', not because we have to. This has got nothing to do with the actions of anyone else -- this is about the actions you choose to make for yourself and for others.

Momlvsducks
25th March 2015, 20:36
I am under the impression the pilgrims started out sharing shortly after the Mayflower landed.

It was the original idea- everybody takes care of everybody else.

But, it didn't work out for the reasons posted above.

PurpleLama
25th March 2015, 20:39
Such system would by necessity be founded by those mutually bound to participate. Such potential would first be realized by those voluntarily giving their time and energy, and said effort be in excellence, for such endeavor to percolate into the society at large.

Pris
25th March 2015, 20:41
TBH, I am all for abolishing the money system, but I'm also in complete agreement with Mom's assertions.

I am particularly observed/experienced of/with individuals who possess the same (greater even) capacity to work and be productive (whether for their own sake or for that of a group) but who just don't want to. While I would love for there to be an elimination of the predatory counterfeit system we have, I have a hard time envisioning an alternative that would more effectively encourage (and/or provide consequence for the lack of) mutual and sincere participation.

Forgive me for standing on my soap box yet again.


Here are two systems that may work -- separately or in tandem:


'Resource-based' system: 'The Venus Project' (Jacque Fresco):

►https://www.thevenusproject.com/en/about/resume


'Contributionist' system: UBUNTU (Michael Tellinger):

►http://www.michaeltellinger.com/ubuntu-cont.php

Pris
25th March 2015, 20:45
Such system would by necessity be founded by those mutually bound to participate. Such potential would first be realized by those voluntarily giving their time and energy, and said effort be in excellence, for such endeavor to percolate into the society at large.

Precisely. :)

GoodETxSG
25th March 2015, 20:49
It's good to see you back posting Pris...

I alway enjoy your perspective,

;)

"G"

Momlvsducks
25th March 2015, 20:51
I have not yet read your 2 links Pris.

But, I wanted to add something.

There are at least two realities for humans.

One is in the body, the other is outside of the body.

In the body we have needs like water, food, shelter, correct temperatures, sunlight.

Out of the body I think we have no needs, because we think and we have.

So, maybe we are here to experience working and straining to make a living??

Kinda like a person gets on a roller coaster, gets terrified, gets off and gets right back on.

So, maybe learning to aquire our needs fairly is one thing we are to learn here.

Calz
25th March 2015, 20:51
Meow ... dang it ... wrong thread ...


https://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/fat-cat-money.jpg

Pris
25th March 2015, 20:54
It's good to see you back posting Pris...

I alway enjoy your perspective,

;)

"G"

Hi, yah bum! Likewise I'm sure. ;) Thanks for dropping by. :)

Pris
25th March 2015, 20:56
I have not yet read your 2 links Pris.

But, I wanted to add something.

There are at least two realities for humans.

One is in the body, the other is outside of the body.

In the body we have needs like water, food, shelter, correct temperatures, sunlight.

Out of the body I think we have no needs, because we think and we have.

So, maybe we are here to experience working and straining to make a living??

Kinda like a person gets on a roller coaster, gets terrified, gets off and gets right back on.

So, maybe learning to aquire our needs fairly is one thing we are to learn here.

In nature, elephants don't work and strain and 'make a living'. Together, they thrive.

Pris
25th March 2015, 20:56
Meow ... dang it ... wrong thread ...


https://gigaom2.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/fat-cat-money.jpg

Amusing to the last you are, Calz. ;)

PurpleLama
25th March 2015, 20:59
Out of the body I think we have no needs, because we think and we have.

You touch on the real problem, and the real solution right there. The problem being, it is how people think, that they may both create, or alternately, destroy. For a moneyless existence, much retraining of the thought processes would have to occur, within those immediately given to the idea and to anyone else should such a system ever come about. The desire to accumulate for power, for pleasure, for security in the face of scarcity, such is so ingrained into the collective psyche, no less among the poor as amongst the rich. It would take much in the way of reeducation or indoctrination (to call it what it is) to convince people to accept such, even those who have now the least and therefore would benefit the most.

Pris
25th March 2015, 21:19
I have a friend, who is rather impressed with 'what the web is becoming'. He sent me a link to this web site: https://www.fiverr.com/


So, I sent him this (not even my friends are safe from me :p):


Course, everyone's still putting out their 5 cents lemonade sign to beat each other over the head with and try and outdo the other kids.

Now, I'd be impressed if everyone offered their services for free...


http://www.silver-phoenix500.com/sites/default/files/berwick100113-2.jpg

Close, but no cigar.

Hermit
25th March 2015, 21:27
How about, in echoing an episode of Dr. Who (name that episode lama!), "Everest in Easy Stages" while climbing a mountain with that scarf.

How can a philosopher not comment??

1. I know people were tired of hearing it over "there" (mmmmm bacon)....but the reality is that the capitalist model has never, ever, ever been attempted ANYWHERE. The reality is every single country that claims to be working under a capitalist model is working under a mixed-economy interventionist model. Name one country that does not, in any way shape or form, interfere and regulate the economic system it uses? You can't. Unless you move to a country which is still living in a quote primitive unquote society.

2. Because Socialism...Communism...requires the enemy "capitalism" to be what it is, it swings in the opposite direction but actually creates an imperial model of government. Case in point, China. China claims to have eliminated the imperialist system and moved closer to the classless society. The reality is the only thing that changed is where the court lives, and how the emperor is chosen. I point you to the reality of the "classless society" of lifechanyuan, a group of really interesting people that seem to be creating a classless agricultural society in China with some success...that are constantly being oppressed by the Government. Now why would that be?

3. The best chance of global prosperity actually exists with a capitalist model. But there's a catch. A society which uses a capitalist model has to be grounded on a principle of universal morality which can either be grounded in a) a religious model or b) a secular model, but that model has to be mutually agreed upon and upheld by the members of that society. Now we're talking a global society. Something is going to have to happen that is going to literally force humanity to change the deep ingrained beliefs about everything. Barter, for example, works well if it means that there's an equal trade, and a respect for the people involved in trading: if Purple has tomatoes that I need, and I have fish waste he could use to fertilize his tomatoes, maybe a carp to roast now and then, then we have a respect for each other because we have something the other needs, but deep down? We also have respect for the craftsmanship required in producing those goods.

When's the last time you looked at something made in China and observed respect for the craftsmanship involved?

Here's a list of things you can do to improve the elephant herd.

1. Eat within 10 km of your home.
2. Buy locally produced organic heritage seeds and grow your own. Now the important thing: give away your surplus. Give it away.
3. Sell your television. Sell your computer. Buy a book. A blank book. And pencils. Write. Daily.
4. Volunteer at a food bank.
5. Get to know the people who use the food bank.
6. Get involved with a spiritual community that is *not* an internet spiritually based community.
7. Go into your basement, or your closet, and turn every breaker in your house off for 24 hours.
8. Give up your car. This one was really tough for me but I'm glad I did.
9. No meat. Any meat. I haven't had red meat in a month. Holy crap do I feel good.
10. This is, perhaps, the most radical but comes from a long standing tradition, a western tradition mind you, of hermitage. Sell everything you own, give it to the poor, and go for a walk. Take with you a walking stick, the clothes on your back, and nothing more.

It will not happen in our generation. It may happen in successive ones. Baby steps. Everest in easy stages.

Pris, do you garden?

Pris
25th March 2015, 22:03
How about, in echoing an episode of Dr. Who (name that episode lama!), "Everest in Easy Stages" while climbing a mountain with that scarf.

How can a philosopher not comment??

1. I know people were tired of hearing it over "there" (mmmmm bacon)....but the reality is that the capitalist model has never, ever, ever been attempted ANYWHERE. The reality is every single country that claims to be working under a capitalist model is working under a mixed-economy interventionist model. Name one country that does not, in any way shape or form, interfere and regulate the economic system it uses? You can't. Unless you move to a country which is still living in a quote primitive unquote society.

2. Because Socialism...Communism...requires the enemy "capitalism" to be what it is, it swings in the opposite direction but actually creates an imperial model of government. Case in point, China. China claims to have eliminated the imperialist system and moved closer to the classless society. The reality is the only thing that changed is where the court lives, and how the emperor is chosen. I point you to the reality of the "classless society" of lifechanyuan, a group of really interesting people that seem to be creating a classless agricultural society in China with some success...that are constantly being oppressed by the Government. Now why would that be?

3. The best chance of global prosperity actually exists with a capitalist model. But there's a catch. A society which uses a capitalist model has to be grounded on a principle of universal morality which can either be grounded in a) a religious model or b) a secular model, but that model has to be mutually agreed upon and upheld by the members of that society. Now we're talking a global society. Something is going to have to happen that is going to literally force humanity to change the deep ingrained beliefs about everything. Barter, for example, works well if it means that there's an equal trade, and a respect for the people involved in trading: if Purple has tomatoes that I need, and I have fish waste he could use to fertilize his tomatoes, maybe a carp to roast now and then, then we have a respect for each other because we have something the other needs, but deep down? We also have respect for the craftsmanship required in producing those goods.

When's the last time you looked at something made in China and observed respect for the craftsmanship involved?

Here's a list of things you can do to improve the elephant herd.

1. Eat within 10 km of your home.
2. Buy locally produced organic heritage seeds and grow your own. Now the important thing: give away your surplus. Give it away.
3. Sell your television. Sell your computer. Buy a book. A blank book. And pencils. Write. Daily.
4. Volunteer at a food bank.
5. Get to know the people who use the food bank.
6. Get involved with a spiritual community that is *not* an internet spiritually based community.
7. Go into your basement, or your closet, and turn every breaker in your house off for 24 hours.
8. Give up your car. This one was really tough for me but I'm glad I did.
9. No meat. Any meat. I haven't had red meat in a month. Holy crap do I feel good.
10. This is, perhaps, the most radical but comes from a long standing tradition, a western tradition mind you, of hermitage. Sell everything you own, give it to the poor, and go for a walk. Take with you a walking stick, the clothes on your back, and nothing more.

It will not happen in our generation. It may happen in successive ones. Baby steps. Everest in easy stages.

Pris, do you garden?


My dear Milneman, it is already happening. Right now it is happening. It's happening with you and me.

I don't agree with everything you say, but with enough to have common ground.

I wish I had time for a garden. I spend all my time on the internet writing this 'shite'. ;) But, I've done my best to cut myself out of the corrupt system in many ways.

Hermit
25th March 2015, 22:10
It ain't shite! Trust me, if you can fill one pot with soil and put one seed into that soil, you can garden. It totally is happening around us all the time, I agree.

The question I have...is will we be around while it continues to happen?

Calz
25th March 2015, 22:27
It ain't shite! Trust me, if you can fill one pot with soil and put one seed into that soil, you can garden. It totally is happening around us all the time, I agree.

The question I have...is will we be around while it continues to happen?


Oh boy ...

timelines ...

parallel dimensions ...


... look at the 3D history beneath our feet.


over and over again ...


Many theories offered to bypass the "cycle" and continue on ... right???


... ah well ... push comes to shove we will get cycled elsewhere to learn what we must.


Myself ... I want an ocean planet with ***no*** humans (tribe is allowed).


A dolphin's life is the life for me ...


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/21300000/Dolphin-dolphins-21391097-804-604.jpg

Hermit
25th March 2015, 22:29
One thing I have come to learn is that you can visit the history of the universe by putting your hands into soil. You can understand time by watching seeds germinate. I am such a nut, an O.C.D. gardener it's insane...but it's really true! The secret of life is in tending life the way we were meant to tend it.

There's a doodle berry if I've ever written one.

Pris
25th March 2015, 22:42
It ain't shite! Trust me, if you can fill one pot with soil and put one seed into that soil, you can garden. It totally is happening around us all the time, I agree.

The question I have...is will we be around while it continues to happen?

Yeah, okay. I'm planting 'thought' seeds. :D



The question I have...is will we be around while it continues to happen?

Is... that a trick question? It's a continuum. It continues as we speak. :D

Pris
25th March 2015, 22:52
Oh boy ...

timelines ...

parallel dimensions ...


... look at the 3D history beneath our feet.


over and over again ...


Many theories offered to bypass the "cycle" and continue on ... right???


... ah well ... push comes to shove we will get cycled elsewhere to learn what we must.


Myself ... I want an ocean planet with ***no*** humans (tribe is allowed).


A dolphin's life is the life for me ...


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/21300000/Dolphin-dolphins-21391097-804-604.jpg

Hey, Calz, I think you're onto something there. For me it's either in the water or on the beach so long as I have some kind of appendage so I can hold onto a vegan, non-alcoholic piņa colada.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/88/885d62379897a94fb03544318004f03d3106bee620eb66c39c 54f77ce9c7d4f4.jpg

Pris
25th March 2015, 23:02
One thing I have come to learn is that you can visit the history of the universe by putting your hands into soil. You can understand time by watching seeds germinate. I am such a nut, an O.C.D. gardener it's insane...but it's really true! The secret of life is in tending life the way we were meant to tend it.

There's a doodle berry if I've ever written one.


You're a wonderful nut. From little nuts (and seeds!), great things grow.


All it takes is a little tending...

http://www.productiveflourishing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Tending-The-Garden.jpg


http://newscenter.sdsu.edu/sdsu_newscenter/images/stories/garden1.jpg


http://honualani.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tending-garden.jpg


http://www.lowes.com/creative-ideas/images/2012_05/boy-tending-garden-1.jpg


http://cpcs.k12.ny.us/wpm/cpcs/wp-content/blogs.dir/16/files/fall-2010/first_grade_radish.jpg

Hermit
25th March 2015, 23:28
As soon as I saw the willow fencing I was in love. ;)

Joe Wilson, an old and long past friend of mine (now...I just had a flash....and I'm going to have to dig and do some pretty deep thinking now...) used to say the world will continue on with or without us.

I've also been told that when the big one hits, and this is very old prophecy, the Anishnabe (keepers of the earth) will still be around because they know how to live in balance with the earth.

So....learn to be in balance with the earth. And keep some charcoal, sugar, a swiss army knife, and a magnifying glass somewhere safe. ;)

Pris
26th March 2015, 03:47
As soon as I saw the willow fencing I was in love. ;)

Joe Wilson, an old and long past friend of mine (now...I just had a flash....and I'm going to have to dig and do some pretty deep thinking now...) used to say the world will continue on with or without us.

I've also been told that when the big one hits, and this is very old prophecy, the Anishnabe (keepers of the earth) will still be around because they know how to live in balance with the earth.

So....learn to be in balance with the earth. And keep some charcoal, sugar, a swiss army knife, and a magnifying glass somewhere safe. ;)

What's the sugar for?

Hermit
26th March 2015, 20:37
Ok so here's the trick. If you ever need to start a fire, you put the sugar in with the charcoal, put that into some kindling (in a pile that's accessible mind you), grind the two together and BANG.

Just a heads up kids...careful if you try this at home to make sure you're out doors, and you're protected. Head gear, goggles, the nines. In fact, don't try this at home. wink wink

gardener
27th March 2015, 02:09
So good to read your posts Pris I have missed you

Pris
27th March 2015, 03:14
Ok so here's the trick. If you ever need to start a fire, you put the sugar in with the charcoal, put that into some kindling (in a pile that's accessible mind you), grind the two together and BANG.

Just a heads up kids...careful if you try this at home to make sure you're out doors, and you're protected. Head gear, goggles, the nines. In fact, don't try this at home. wink wink

Woah... really! You mean using briquettes or natural charcoal? I know white sugar is more poison than food, but I had no idea it has 'explosive' qualities when ground with charcoal.

AWESOME! :D



So good to read your posts Pris I have missed you

Gee, thanks gardener. :) I've missed y'all, too.

Pris
30th March 2015, 23:35
.
Due to an administrative error, we've lost some pages of comments.
I will attempt to patch together what I have from notifications and from memory.
Much is missing, but I think I got the gist.


Milneman: Best bet? Pick up some inexpensive aquarium filter charcoal. Never goes old. Always good to have around. :D


Pris: Already ahead of you! :) Charcoal has many uses.

_____________


Jano: Thanks Pris for the Tread, very interesting to follow the different posts, and your commenting.

IMHO, if you "Abolish the Monetary System" a very dependable "medium" of exchange, what do you replaced with?

In the known history of human, every possible "means" of exchange have been tried, it started as we know with "barter".

And with Emperors, Dictators, etc, they printed out coins as a means of exchange, and today, all that was tried is what we see going on now, a Central Bank in one country who control the flow of money (to control the buying power of money)! So if you abolish this one, you have to put up another one up, will it be better?, and how to make it such that it would be better for people..? At the end of a certain period of time, it will begin to show signs of wear, corruption, etc.

I think that the Monetary System is a well thought out system, but, the wealthy people (has the means to facilitate their needs of money) use it more wisely than we can. But what can we do to make it more efficient for the people, not the wealty? I think that we have to plan for a People Oriented Central Bank where everyone has a real chance of being served reasonably, with equity. How may we start such a movement?

The best to you Pris!


Pris: (from memory) Thank you, Jano! We need to abolish all forms of money including barter and trade because they all cause disparity.

_____________


norman: In my opinion, a system of exchange ( even barter ) should end up feeling as unnatural globally as it does within a loving family.

_____________


Pris: Trade causes disparity because someone will always have more to trade than someone else.

_____________


Melidae: I think you and I are 'on the same page', Pris. We can envision what life would be like with abundance...there would be no need to trade or exchange anything. Work, as we know it now, would not exist...there would be no need for a 'job'. Is following your passion and doing what you love considered work? Crime would go down, if not disappear completely, for there would be no need to take from another if we all have plenty.

It is a concept difficult for most people to understand.

All current 'systems' would have to go. We can start this now by not supporting the existing systems. Why would you want to work at a job that continues and supports any system that enslaves? They are put into place by the controllers, but we are the fools that make the system work and ensure their continuance.


Pris: Thank you, Melidae! No clearer words could be spoken.

_____________


elbie: abolishing monetary system may be a bright idea on the part of 'non haves' i.e usa, the fed etc..it's not if you asked the chinese. that't where all the money is held these days.

they also own most debt by the west .. why would they consider moneyless society? it's obvous to me that they want their investment back and more.

according to financial articles, there's at least 50 more years for their economy to grow..stalling is not in sight for china.


Pris: Thanks, Elbie. Please refer to my last comment (missing) -- Melidae said it best. If you don't like something, don't support it.

_____________


Elbie: thank you too for referring me to the post, thanks to which I now know what your OP is all on about. I had an idea that it invited non-utopian thought as well.

as it is, according to the ongoing world ecomomics, depriving one of carrying cash would only mean a COMPLETE enslavement.

but yours is a projection into some future nature of human society. fingers crossed it would come to pass one fine day.


Pris: (from memory) Excellent point -- within the present, corrupt system, depriving one of carrying cash would not be good. It would be like George Orwel's 1984 on steroids.

How do you define 'complete enslavement'? One is either enslaved or one is not, don't you think? You may not see the prison bars, but they are there.

Thank you, but I can neither take credit for 'The Venus Project' nor for 'UBUNTU Contribution'ism''. But, I like the ideas very much.

_____________


Pris: (from memory, slight adlib) Michael Tellinger is already working the UBUNTU contributionism model in South Africa. In fact, people are organizing all around the world.

Meanwhile, Michael has a free-energy device on order to ultimately power his UBUNTU community and surrounding communities with free energy. I'm watching with mild interest. Of course, the biggest hurtle, should it be true, is to run the device without government interference or sabotage.

Pris
30th March 2015, 23:40
_____________


Snowy Owl: So you know.. I am already doing many of the things that are being suggested in this thread. I think it is important to create the space for what's to come. :)


Pris: Yes! :) Live the world you wish to see!

Do you like The Venus Project? (Talk about it!)
Do you like UBUNTU Contributionism? (Join a movement in your country!)
Do you like being a sharing, compassionate person?
Do you hate what you see out there and want the world to be a better place?

Then, live it.

Live as if it is already happening. By doing so, we create the world we want to live in.


Live the world you wish to see.


Here are some ideas off the top of my head.

→These ideas may not be for everyone!←


■ Contribute your time, energy and/or services freely to worthy causes.

■ Give away what you don't need.

■ Grow your own food. Share surplus with your neighbours.

http://alpinedailyplanet.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f2e9fdbf970b019aff6afbe6970d-800wi


■ If you haven't a garden, join a community garden.

http://kgi.org/sites/default/files/100_6469.JPG


■ Sprout your own food.

http://boulderlocavore.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Homemade-sprouts-BoulderLocavore.com-935-001.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdCFzM242sg


■ Buy healthy food and eat raw as often as possible.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wHu43r5sL.SX376_SY500_CR,0,0,376,500_PIbundle-4,TopRight,0,0_SX376_SY500_CR,0,0,376,500_SH20_.jp ghttp://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce07b8c-e07d/k2-_2d8882d0-7571-4097-ace2-53ac60c07e83.v1.jpg
http://buycoconutoil.com/images/green_label_virgin_coconut_oil_32oz.jpghttp://www.dolphinvillage.com/dolphinwp/wp-content/files_mf/1298917867oliveoil750ml..jpghttp://104.131.88.32/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Bragg-Apple-Cider-Vinegar.pnghttp://hosting.rjl.com/snh/redstar2.jpg


■ Avoid GMOs. Eat organic as often as possible (watch the codes).

http://i1.minus.com/jG8y8iy4ZxleT.png


■ Avoid white sugar, Canola oil, margarine, high fructose corn syrup, carbonated beverages, MSG (often disguised as 'natural flavour'), artificial sweeteners (like Aspartame, Splenda, and Neotame), alcohol, caffeine, black teas (fluoride), processed foods, preservatives, white flour (bleached), wheat (not ancient grain khorasan), additives including 'vitamins' and 'minerals' (find bio-available/organic sources and add them yourself so you know what you're getting or eat raw fruits and veggies), table salt (and limit all other salt), etc.

■ Drink pure water. Distill your own.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yIyhGDlA5GE/TxdDcKGoFOI/AAAAAAAAAaY/XKAQopGnUbM/s1600/DSC00494.JPG


■ Go vegan. If this isn't for you, at least cut back on meat and animal products.

http://www.nonviolenceunited.org/images/vegan/vegan_shirtlogo_large.gif


■ Avoid eating/using products with animal ingredients and/or tested on animals.

■ Keep yourself healthy. If you require help, seek out holistic practitioners.

https://mrrecker.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/yea.jpg


■ Avoid prescription drugs as best as you can.

■ Avoid vaccinations and flu shots.

■ Get rid of your amalgam (mercury) fillings.

■ Avoid toxins/poisons (like fluoride and parabens) in regular household products.

■ Use fluoride-free toothpaste or brush with baking soda.

http://images.iherb.com/l/RTC-10570-1.jpg


■ Get by with as little as possible. Buy second hand. The less money you use, the less you support the current, corrupt system that requires you to be a consumer and a slave. The less you need, the less dependent you are.

■ Stop buying products or engaging in activities that directly supports the 'Illuminati'/Cabal (the military industrial complex).

http://illuminatisymbols.info/wp-content/uploads/illuminatisymbols-logo.jpg

■ Stop using a cell phone! If you can't do that, at least cut back on usage. Don't let them track you, spy on you, and otherwise irradiate you.

►http://www.examiner.com/article/how-to-safely-use-a-cell-phone-and-avoid-radiation-emissions


■ Get a landline. Stop using wireless devices -- go back to wires!

http://www.pc1news.com/images/2011/wifi-direct.gif


■ Don't buy anything 'Smart'.

►http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2950081/It-s-not-just-smart-TVs-home-gadgets-spy-internet-giants-collecting-personal-data-high-tech-devices.html


■ Avoid being part of the 'Internet of Things'.

http://www.ariasystems.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/the-internet-of-things.jpg

►http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/gadgets-electronics/stories/is-your-smart-home-safe-or-has-it-become-an-evil-botnet


■ Hold on to your analog meter -- don't get a Smart Meter. Avoid exposure to dangerous non-ionizing, non-thermal, pulsed radiation. If you have a Smart Meter, shield it.

http://cdn.instructables.com/F2M/A9UU/H54088RX/F2MA9UUH54088RX.MEDIUM.jpg

►http://www.instructables.com/id/Smart-Meter-radiation-shield/?lang=de

►http://stopsmartmeters.org/frequently-asked-questions/faq-shielding-and-measurement-issues/

A Smart Meter will record all your personal electrical consumption minute by minute and sent it back to the utility company. This information is easily open to hackers/thieves who can determine when you are away from home.

Smart Meters increase 'dirty electricity'.

Smart Meters are a fire hazard.

Smart Meters are used to communicate with The Internet of Things, track your electrical consumption, and send that information to your utility company (for data farming and government spying purposes eg. NSA, CIA) by piggybacking on other Smart Meter signals in the Smart Grid. This blankets entire communities in dangerous wireless radio frequency/microwave radiation.

►http://stopsmartmeters.org/


■ Use incandescent light bulbs or LEDs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Gluehlampe_01_KMJ.png/170px-Gluehlampe_01_KMJ.pnghttp://solarandalucia.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/LED_Light.jpg


■ Avoid CFLs (contain mercury, emit high EMFs) and halogen bulbs (emit high EMFs).

https://fire9prevention.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/cfl.jpghttp://s.hswstatic.com/gif/halogen-lamp-1.jpg


■ Use search engines like DuckDuckGo and Startpage that don't track you.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTNNnrW6XyGztBE_L_qZ4KPqSktI3fLa N7RdGfqnHuSQAM7GgOl9A


■ Get off The Grid. If you can't do that, try to cut back on power use and/or find alternatives to your utilities.

■ Home school.

■ Don't join the military.

■ Don't vote.

Novusod
1st April 2015, 07:41
It seems my post got deleted during the rollback so I will restate my opinion.

I am all for the complete abolition of the monetary system.

Money was created to enslave humanity through a system of Babylonian money magic of precarious usury. Money is used to extract wealth from the world by making people think they are free. In our capitalist world People freely turn over the sweat of their labor for worthless paper controlled by bankers. It is because of money that we end up with problems of artificial scarcity.

Look at this picture. These are NOT sand bags. This is rotting grain. Millions and millions of tonns of rotting grain. Enough grain was destroyed in 2010 to end world hunger.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/Other%20Gifs/MillionTonsofRottedGrain__zps36f8f0f3.jpg

This grain was destroyed because there wasn't enough of the devil's money to pay for it. In a capitalist society scarce things are more valuable than abundant things. So we foolishly destroy the natural abundance of Earth to an artificial scarcity. What you are seeing is millions and millions of tonns of grain that was purposely destroyed so that meme of artificial scarcity could be maintained. Every bag represents a life ruined. Every bag represents a malnourished child that had to go to bed hungry. This is the real life holocaust.


LISTEN to me. Poverty is an artifical construct created by banks, money, and greed.

Let me tell you about the meme of artificial scarcity.

We have lots of idle factories that could be producing stuff but are shut down.
We have plenty of demand for the products made in those factories but still they do not operate.
We have millions of unemployed workers who want to work in those factories but are not allowed.
We have millions of empty homes and millions of homeless people. Why is that?
We live in a time of phenomenal abundance but there is poverty everywhere.
Food is left to rot in the field while people starve.
Real abundance is being destroyed. WHY?

It is called artificial scarcity. Do you really think people would work these lousy wage slave jobs if there was not the ever present threat of death by starvation hanging over people's heads. That is how the modern day slave system works. It is about controlling people either through their jobs or through government socialism. Either way you are a slave to the system. It is system that destroys the natural abundance of human production so that those at the bottom of society are held captive to the whims of the people whole rule at the top of the social pyramid. They want us all competing against each other in Hobbsian struggle for survival. The Hunger Games is an apt analogy for how the world really exists behind the scenes. If there was no hunger than there would be NO games. I don't know about you but I grow tired of these hunger games and am here to bust this system by exposing it.

Factories have intrinsic value
Fields of grain have intrinsic value
Workers earning an honest living have intrinsic value

What has no intrinsic value is money, banks, and stock markets and yet these worthless things are the most highly prized in our society. This needs to change.

Artificial scarcity is the biggest lie ever told. The idea that everything is scarce is a huge lie. There is no poverty. It is all fake, all lies. Poverty is manufactured via a system of debt, wage slavery, and government socialism. We live in a world of phenomenal abundance where nobody ever has to starve. Grain can flow like sand in a desert if people can learn to see through the lies. There does not have to be a hunger games style competition between the world's people if they can see the bigger picture. People do not have to fight to the death over the lie of limited resources.

The defenders of the current limited paradigm will argue there is not enough money to pay for all the jobs, homes, and food for everyone. But they forget money is NOT the be all end all of wealth. Money is merely an abstraction that exists to facilitate trade. However, money in the modern corporate capitalist sense does NOT facilitate trade. It does the opposite, it restricts trade because it is all hoarded by a super elite group of rich people and there is nothing left for the average person. When the average person is enslaved to money then trade for all practical purposes grinds to a halt. This is why the factories stopped running and why food rots in the field. There is no trade so everything goes to waste.

In the near future people will be free to create what they want like they did before there were banks. All trade will have to be of real value. Sweat will be traded for sweat. The middle man will be cut out and we will be truly free. We are surrounded by riches yet our governments and corporations manufacturer poverty to control us. There is going to be a revolution. We of the light demand it and will manifest it when the time comes.

Access to food is a human right.
Access to housing is a human right.
Access to decent medical care is a human right.

None of these things are scarce but exist in great abundance. These truths are so obvious they should not even be questioned.

Pris
1st April 2015, 09:59
It seems my post got deleted during the rollback so I will restate my opinion.

I am all for the complete abolition of the monetary system.

Money was created to enslave humanity through a system of Babylonian money magic of precarious usury. Money is used to extract wealth from the world by making people think they are free. In our capitalist world People freely turn over the sweat of their labor for worthless paper controlled by bankers. It is because of money that we end up with problems of artificial scarcity.

Look at this picture. These are NOT sand bags. This is rotting grain. Millions and millions of tonns of rotting grain. Enough grain was destroyed in 2010 to end world hunger.
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e38/Novuso/Other%20Gifs/MillionTonsofRottedGrain__zps36f8f0f3.jpg

This grain was destroyed because there wasn't enough of the devil's money to pay for it. In a capitalist society scarce things are more valuable than abundant things. So we foolishly destroy the natural abundance of Earth to an artificial scarcity. What you are seeing is millions and millions of tonns of grain that was purposely destroyed so that meme of artificial scarcity could be maintained. Every bag represents a life ruined. Every bag represents a malnourished child that had to go to bed hungry. This is the real life holocaust.


LISTEN to me. Poverty is an artifical construct created by banks, money, and greed.

Let me tell you about the meme of artificial scarcity.

We have lots of idle factories that could be producing stuff but are shut down.
We have plenty of demand for the products made in those factories but still they do not operate.
We have millions of unemployed workers who want to work in those factories but are not allowed.
We have millions of empty homes and millions of homeless people. Why is that?
We live in a time of phenomenal abundance but there is poverty everywhere.
Food is left to rot in the field while people starve.
Real abundance is being destroyed. WHY?

It is called artificial scarcity. Do you really think people would work these lousy wage slave jobs if there was not the ever present threat of death by starvation hanging over people's heads. That is how the modern day slave system works. It is about controlling people either through their jobs or through government socialism. Either way you are a slave to the system. It is system that destroys the natural abundance of human production so that those at the bottom of society are held captive to the whims of the people whole rule at the top of the social pyramid. They want us all competing against each other in Hobbsian struggle for survival. The Hunger Games is an apt analogy for how the world really exists behind the scenes. If there was no hunger than there would be NO games. I don't know about you but I grow tired of these hunger games and am here to bust this system by exposing it.

Factories have intrinsic value
Fields of grain have intrinsic value
Workers earning an honest living have intrinsic value

What has no intrinsic value is money, banks, and stock markets and yet these worthless things are the most highly prized in our society. This needs to change.

Artificial scarcity is the biggest lie ever told. The idea that everything is scarce is a huge lie. There is no poverty. It is all fake, all lies. Poverty is manufactured via a system of debt, wage slavery, and government socialism. We live in a world of phenomenal abundance where nobody ever has to starve. Grain can flow like sand in a desert if people can learn to see through the lies. There does not have to be a hunger games style competition between the world's people if they can see the bigger picture. People do not have to fight to the death over the lie of limited resources.

The defenders of the current limited paradigm will argue there is not enough money to pay for all the jobs, homes, and food for everyone. But they forget money is NOT the be all end all of wealth. Money is merely an abstraction that exists to facilitate trade. However, money in the modern corporate capitalist sense does NOT facilitate trade. It does the opposite, it restricts trade because it is all hoarded by a super elite group of rich people and there is nothing left for the average person. When the average person is enslaved to money then trade for all practical purposes grinds to a halt. This is why the factories stopped running and why food rots in the field. There is no trade so everything goes to waste.

In the near future people will be free to create what they want like they did before there were banks. All trade will have to be of real value. Sweat will be traded for sweat. The middle man will be cut out and we will be truly free. We are surrounded by riches yet our governments and corporations manufacturer poverty to control us. There is going to be a revolution. We of the light demand it and will manifest it when the time comes.

Access to food is a human right.
Access to housing is a human right.
Access to decent medical care is a human right.

None of these things are scarce but exist in great abundance. These truths are so obvious they should not even be questioned.

This one didn't go to my inbox, so thank you for reposting your wonderful comment, Novusod.

If I recall, the only thing I addressed here was this:


All trade will have to be of real value. Sweat will be traded for sweat. The middle man will be cut out and we will be truly free.

My concern is that trade still causes disparity because someone will always have more to trade than someone else. Also, defining what constitutes 'sweat for sweat' is a slippery slope. The best thing would be to give freely without expectation of return -- whatever skill or service you have. Keeping a 'tally' would defeat the point.

Please note: the 40 hour work week would be made obsolete. Whatever time one gives is an entirely personal choice (there may be some 'loose' rules as guidelines -- like three hrs/week community service) -- even if it's just to lend a helping hand once in awhile. Those who are unable to help will be taken care of. Those who choose not to help will, hopefully, see that their behaviour isn't conducive to the well-being of the community as a whole. Involvement would be encouraged, but not forced. It's about asking everyone to 'do the right thing'.

Everyone's needs will be met, and eventually, 'wants' will be met as well. There are no limits. The only 'limits' that might be imposed would be to use common sense. For example, let's say you need a vehicle. If you only require one, then wanting ten would not be encouraged because that would be a waste of resources -- resources better spent elsewhere. Everyone needs to think of the community as a whole -- not just of themselves.

Novusod
1st April 2015, 13:58
My concern is that trade still causes disparity because someone will always have more to trade than someone else. Also, defining what constitutes 'sweat for sweat' is a slippery slope. The best thing would be to give freely without expectation of return -- whatever skill or service you have. Keeping a 'tally' would defeat the point.

Please note: the 40 hour work week would be made obsolete. Whatever time one gives is an entirely personal choice (there may be some 'loose' rules as guidelines -- like three hrs/week community service) -- even if it's just to lend a helping hand once in awhile. Those who are unable to help will be taken care of. Those who choose not to help will, hopefully, see that their behaviour isn't conducive to the well-being of the community as a whole. Involvement would be encouraged, but not forced. It's about asking everyone to 'do the right thing'.

Everyone's needs will be met, and eventually, 'wants' will be met as well. There are no limits. The only 'limits' that might be imposed would be to use common sense. For example, let's say you need a vehicle. If you only require one, then wanting ten would not be encouraged because that would be a waste of resources -- resources better spent elsewhere. Everyone needs to think of the community as a whole -- not just of themselves.

All the basic needs of housing, food, clothing, healthcare could be met fairly easily after we stop destroying the natural abundance of the planet in the name of artificial scarcity. The concern that trade leads to inequality does not pan out in a world of natural abundance.

From what I have heard in advanced ET civilizations buildings of all sizes and designs are erected by focused thought and visualization. Everyone has a choice of house or apartment in a city or living in a rural environment. They are free to fill their homes with whatever possessions they desire. It is noteworthy that the most highly evolved souls choose humble dwellings and people who choose mansions later feel uncomfortable with such opulence. It is analogous to table manners at an all you can eat restaurant. People who are used to scarcity will gorge themselves until the point of pain. After people get used to the abundance they learn to control themselves. People don't naturally behave like pack rats and hoarders. That is programmed behavior via advertising and ego boosting propaganda. In a service to others paradigm the economy is self regulating and there are no need for limitations.

Pris
1st April 2015, 22:48
All the basic needs of housing, food, clothing, healthcare could be met fairly easily after we stop destroying the natural abundance of the planet in the name of artificial scarcity. The concern that trade leads to inequality does not pan out in a world of natural abundance.

From what I have heard in advanced ET civilizations buildings of all sizes and designs are erected by focused thought and visualization. Everyone has a choice of house or apartment in a city or living in a rural environment. They are free to fill their homes with whatever possessions they desire. It is noteworthy that the most highly evolved souls choose humble dwellings and people who choose mansions later feel uncomfortable with such opulence. It is analogous to table manners at an all you can eat restaurant. People who are used to scarcity will gorge themselves until the point of pain. After people get used to the abundance they learn to control themselves. People don't naturally behave like pack rats and hoarders. That is programmed behavior via advertising and ego boosting propaganda. In a service to others paradigm the economy is self regulating and there are no need for limitations.

Spot on! :)


The concern that trade leads to inequality does not pan out in a world of natural abundance.

Right -- because there is no need for trade in a world of natural abundance -- based on a moneyless system (that automatically includes all trade and barter). Don't you see? There will always be inequity with trading. Trading is no different than using money. When you assign different degrees of value to everything, greed/corruption kicks in.

In a moneyless system, there may be centres for 'exchange' -- like public libraries of things where you can 'borrow' something and return it when you no longer need it.

Also, I think you nicely addressed what happens if someone wants, for example, a rare item -- like a one-of-a-kind painting -- all to themselves. Something like that ought to be kept in an public art gallery for all to enjoy. If someone really 'likes' it and wants it in their home, they could have a 'copy' replicated. It's all about 'table manners'.

PurpleLama
3rd April 2015, 00:00
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message2702754/reply47554885

Its an interesting if unverifiable data point in support of the OP.

Pris
5th April 2015, 21:29
.
.
Here's Jacque Fresco giving one of his talks. He makes some terrific points.

Please note: there is some swearing and language some people may find offensive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tGk5KfvFJc

Hermit
5th April 2015, 22:07
Why do I have to continually unpack this stuff? What does everyone get from believing this nonsense?

I am all for the complete abolition of the monetary system.

So you're in favour of Communism. It doesn't work. Even the remaining Communist countries are moving to a mixed economy system where government controls regulate the markets.

If you're not in favour of communism, may I ask how you plan on eliminating "greed" and "sloth" from the equation?

Novusod, you're making a classical mistake of reasoning here. Let me ask you, what exactly is the monetary system? How do you define the monetary system in the context of a capitalist society?



Money was created to enslave humanity through a system of Babylonian money magic of precarious usury. Money is used to extract wealth from the world by making people think they are free. In our capitalist world People freely turn over the sweat of their labor for worthless paper controlled by bankers. It is because of money that we end up with problems of artificial scarcity.

That, my friend, is not Capitalism. That is a mixed-economy/interventionist system.

I challenge anyone to name one country who's government has not enforced controls over their economic system. I know I'm splitting hairs here, but it is critical that people who enter into this discussion realize that they've got the gun pointing in the wrong direction and if you continue, you're going to shoot off your foot!



LISTEN to me. Poverty is an artifical construct created by banks, money, and greed.

Agreed. Now listen to me, my friend. Poverty does not exist in a capitalist system. The problem is, nobody's tried a capitalist system yet! As for the other side, I merely need to point out the incredible adverse poverty that existed in socialist countries towards the end and immediately after the fall of Communism.

Let me tell you about the meme of artificial scarcity.


Well if that doesn't support the idea of an interventionist model, I don't know what does.

We have lots of idle factories that could be producing stuff but are shut down.
We have plenty of demand for the products made in those factories but still they do not operate.
We have millions of unemployed workers who want to work in those factories but are not allowed.
We have millions of empty homes and millions of homeless people. Why is that?
We live in a time of phenomenal abundance but there is poverty everywhere.
Food is left to rot in the field while people starve.
Real abundance is being destroyed. WHY?

Because interventionist/mixed economics systems create:


...artificial scarcity. Do you really think people would work these lousy wage slave jobs if there was not the ever present threat of death by starvation hanging over people's heads. That is how the modern day slave system works. It is about controlling people either through their jobs or through government socialism. Either way you are a slave to the system. It is system that destroys the natural abundance of human production so that those at the bottom of society are held captive to the whims of the people whole rule at the top of the social pyramid. They want us all competing against each other in Hobbsian struggle for survival. The Hunger Games is an apt analogy for how the world really exists behind the scenes. If there was no hunger than there would be NO games. I don't know about you but I grow tired of these hunger games and am here to bust this system by exposing it.


Capitalism in its truest form dictates, among other things, that:

Factories have intrinsic value
Fields of grain have intrinsic value
Workers earning an honest living have intrinsic value


A mixed economic system dictates that (w)hat has ... intrinsic value is money, banks, and stock markets and yet these worthless things are the most highly prized in our society. This needs to change.


The defenders of the current limited paradigm will argue there is not enough money to pay for all the jobs, homes, and food for everyone. But they forget money is NOT the be all end all of wealth. Money is merely an abstraction that exists to facilitate trade. However, money in the modern corporate capitalist sense does NOT facilitate trade. It does the opposite, it restricts trade because it is all hoarded by a super elite group of rich people and there is nothing left for the average person. When the average person is enslaved to money then trade for all practical purposes grinds to a halt. This is why the factories stopped running and why food rots in the field. There is no trade so everything goes to waste.

Which is why we need to move closer towards a capitalist system, and further from a socialist/mixed economic system.

In the near future people will be free to create what they want like they did before there were banks. All trade will have to be of real value. Sweat will be traded for sweat. The middle man will be cut out and we will be truly free. We are surrounded by riches yet our governments and corporations manufacturer poverty to control us. There is going to be a revolution. We of the light demand it and will manifest it when the time comes.


My friend, let me tell you about the lie of the revolution.
There has first of all never been a socialist revolution that has ended in a classless society. We are, however, extremely familiar with the "dictatorship" of the proletariat. But let's back away from the Marxist model of the revolution and take a look at what you're suggesting at a bare bones, plain old closer to reality model. People want to revolt, but they don't know clearly what it is they're revolting against, or what they want to evolve into post-revolution. They are screaming for change but have no idea what they want to change, so they lash out at money. Money is not the problem. People are the problem.

I agree that a revolution has to take place, but it needs to begin by vacuuming under our own beds, doing our own dishes, washing our own clothes, being nice to our own neighbours.

My friend, have you ever gone a month without telling a lie of any kind? Try it. That's a revolution.

Access to food is a human right.
Access to housing is a human right.
Access to decent medical care is a human right.

None of these things are scarce but exist in great abundance. These truths are so obvious they should not even be questioned.

They can and will be questioned, and here's why. And it's really simple. Until people understand the terms they are using correctly, they potentially risk causing damages far greater by fixing the problems with an incorrectly interpreted solution. Until people correctly understand what they're trying to accomplish, there will only ever be one thing: people acting in chaos, and those who profit from it. You play the game by continuing to believe the false reality. Read. Inform yourself!

I see this on forums and in conversations over and over again, people mistakingly thinking the problem is with the economic system, with money. Do your homework, because when you do you're going to discover that what you're asserting is based on a false understanding of the facts. Communities that barter thrive. Why? Capitalism. Plain and simple. You have something that I want, I have something that you want, let's trade. The system you're suggesting would end, I'm afraid, at the end of a gun.

Read "Animal Farm". Then read some Marx. I'm gonna tell you what I told Pris. Get books, not internet.

OR

If you're so disgusted with the monetary system, then stand behind your words: Sell everything you own, give everything away to the poor, and walk in the world a free being.

Which amounts to a polite way of saying put up, or shut up.

Pris
5th April 2015, 23:12
Why do I have to continually unpack this stuff? What does everyone get from believing this nonsense?

I am all for the complete abolition of the monetary system.

So you're in favour of Communism. It doesn't work. Even the remaining Communist countries are moving to a mixed economy system where government controls regulate the markets.

If you're not in favour of communism, may I ask how you plan on eliminating "greed" and "sloth" from the equation?

Novusod, you're making a classical mistake of reasoning here. Let me ask you, what exactly is the monetary system? How do you define the monetary system in the context of a capitalist society?



Money was created to enslave humanity through a system of Babylonian money magic of precarious usury. Money is used to extract wealth from the world by making people think they are free. In our capitalist world People freely turn over the sweat of their labor for worthless paper controlled by bankers. It is because of money that we end up with problems of artificial scarcity.

That, my friend, is not Capitalism. That is a mixed-economy/interventionist system.

I challenge anyone to name one country who's government has not enforced controls over their economic system. I know I'm splitting hairs here, but it is critical that people who enter into this discussion realize that they've got the gun pointing in the wrong direction and if you continue, you're going to shoot off your foot!



LISTEN to me. Poverty is an artifical construct created by banks, money, and greed.

Agreed. Now listen to me, my friend. Poverty does not exist in a capitalist system. The problem is, nobody's tried a capitalist system yet! As for the other side, I merely need to point out the incredible adverse poverty that existed in socialist countries towards the end and immediately after the fall of Communism.

Let me tell you about the meme of artificial scarcity.


Well if that doesn't support the idea of an interventionist model, I don't know what does.

We have lots of idle factories that could be producing stuff but are shut down.
We have plenty of demand for the products made in those factories but still they do not operate.
We have millions of unemployed workers who want to work in those factories but are not allowed.
We have millions of empty homes and millions of homeless people. Why is that?
We live in a time of phenomenal abundance but there is poverty everywhere.
Food is left to rot in the field while people starve.
Real abundance is being destroyed. WHY?

Because interventionist/mixed economics systems create:


...artificial scarcity. Do you really think people would work these lousy wage slave jobs if there was not the ever present threat of death by starvation hanging over people's heads. That is how the modern day slave system works. It is about controlling people either through their jobs or through government socialism. Either way you are a slave to the system. It is system that destroys the natural abundance of human production so that those at the bottom of society are held captive to the whims of the people whole rule at the top of the social pyramid. They want us all competing against each other in Hobbsian struggle for survival. The Hunger Games is an apt analogy for how the world really exists behind the scenes. If there was no hunger than there would be NO games. I don't know about you but I grow tired of these hunger games and am here to bust this system by exposing it.


Capitalism in its truest form dictates, among other things, that:

Factories have intrinsic value
Fields of grain have intrinsic value
Workers earning an honest living have intrinsic value


A mixed economic system dictates that (w)hat has ... intrinsic value is money, banks, and stock markets and yet these worthless things are the most highly prized in our society. This needs to change.


The defenders of the current limited paradigm will argue there is not enough money to pay for all the jobs, homes, and food for everyone. But they forget money is NOT the be all end all of wealth. Money is merely an abstraction that exists to facilitate trade. However, money in the modern corporate capitalist sense does NOT facilitate trade. It does the opposite, it restricts trade because it is all hoarded by a super elite group of rich people and there is nothing left for the average person. When the average person is enslaved to money then trade for all practical purposes grinds to a halt. This is why the factories stopped running and why food rots in the field. There is no trade so everything goes to waste.

Which is why we need to move closer towards a capitalist system, and further from a socialist/mixed economic system.

In the near future people will be free to create what they want like they did before there were banks. All trade will have to be of real value. Sweat will be traded for sweat. The middle man will be cut out and we will be truly free. We are surrounded by riches yet our governments and corporations manufacturer poverty to control us. There is going to be a revolution. We of the light demand it and will manifest it when the time comes.


My friend, let me tell you about the lie of the revolution.
There has first of all never been a socialist revolution that has ended in a classless society. We are, however, extremely familiar with the "dictatorship" of the proletariat. But let's back away from the Marxist model of the revolution and take a look at what you're suggesting at a bare bones, plain old closer to reality model. People want to revolt, but they don't know clearly what it is they're revolting against, or what they want to evolve into post-revolution. They are screaming for change but have no idea what they want to change, so they lash out at money. Money is not the problem. People are the problem.

I agree that a revolution has to take place, but it needs to begin by vacuuming under our own beds, doing our own dishes, washing our own clothes, being nice to our own neighbours.

My friend, have you ever gone a month without telling a lie of any kind? Try it. That's a revolution.

Access to food is a human right.
Access to housing is a human right.
Access to decent medical care is a human right.

None of these things are scarce but exist in great abundance. These truths are so obvious they should not even be questioned.

They can and will be questioned, and here's why. And it's really simple. Until people understand the terms they are using correctly, they potentially risk causing damages far greater by fixing the problems with an incorrectly interpreted solution. Until people correctly understand what they're trying to accomplish, there will only ever be one thing: people acting in chaos, and those who profit from it. You play the game by continuing to believe the false reality. Read. Inform yourself!

I see this on forums and in conversations over and over again, people mistakingly thinking the problem is with the economic system, with money. Do your homework, because when you do you're going to discover that what you're asserting is based on a false understanding of the facts. Communities that barter thrive. Why? Capitalism. Plain and simple. You have something that I want, I have something that you want, let's trade. The system you're suggesting would end, I'm afraid, at the end of a gun.

Read "Animal Farm". Then read some Marx. I'm gonna tell you what I told Pris. Get books, not internet.

OR

If you're so disgusted with the monetary system, then stand behind your words: Sell everything you own, give everything away to the poor, and walk in the world a free being.

Which amounts to a polite way of saying put up, or shut up.

To show how a communist system can work, it needs to work without money. Of course communism hasn't worked so far -- money always gets in there and corrupts things.

Outlander
5th April 2015, 23:35
The International Monetary System & The Future Of Money
A MIND BLOWING lecture by Shiekh (not Sheikh) Imran Hosein on the how & why of the inevitable collapse of the dollar and the paper money system.

If you, like me, are not into (organized) religion - Islam in this case - you should skip the first 10 minutes and start the video at 10:30.

The Shiekh has a very pleasant voice to listen to, is also quite witty at times and has a super interesting tale to tell.

I PROMISE YOU, IT WILL ENLIGHTEN & BRIGHTEN YOU!

I'd like to add that when I started watching this lecture I more or less expected to zap it away after a couple of minutes, but I didn't and when it finished after one hour it felt like a much shorter time had past.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNnIC6dkpoI

Pris
7th April 2015, 03:05
If you're so disgusted with the monetary system, then stand behind your words: Sell everything you own, give everything away to the poor, and walk in the world a free being.

This is just a snippet from your long... interesting comment, Milneman. I appreciate the effort. You say many things that just don't hold any water. If you've been following along with this thread, you'd see what I mean. People like Jacque Fresco and Michael Tellinger already did all the homework and have terrific arguments against pretty much everything you say to support Capitalism.

I don't want to trade this information with you. I want to share it with you, Milneman. And, I am. That's a beginning.

Btw, who wouldn't want to live in the world Jacque Fresco conjured up? I'd give it a chance. It couldn't be worse than what we have now. In fact, it looks a whole heck of a lot better. If that's Communism (and I'm not saying it is), it sure looks great. The key is the elimination of money/barter/trade in all this to end disparity and corruption.

May I ask, how does selling everything I own, giving everything away to the poor, allow me to walk in the world a free being? This world is 'ruled' by money. Money is God. If you are talking about disappearing into the woods and living like Grizzly Adams, even you would not be 'free'. Who 'owns' that forest you've made your home? If you are discovered, do you think 'they'll' let you continue to live on 'their' land for 'free'? Besides, how can you be 'free' when the rest of the world continues to be enslaved?

As an individual attempting to live without money/trade/barter, that's a rough road. Singularly, that does not accomplish much. That's why the start-up of UBUNTU communities holds great promise. It's better (and safer) to create a 'pocket' of people all wishing to live 'outside' the system. That way there's group support. The greatest challenge is putting the idea into action from inside a monetary system. Overcoming the fiction of 'land ownership' is another challenge. Becoming completely independent of the current, corrupt system is the goal while everyone in the UBUNTU community shares equally in the abundance they create.

Meantime, while other UBUNTU communities start up, they may, at first, trade with their fellow UBUNTU communities that have already gotten a foothold. This is only because we still live in a world driven by money. The ultimate goal is to stand independent so that trade will no longer be necessary. With UBUNTU communities flourishing, that sets an example for others who wish to join or wish to create more UBUNTU communities.

And, so it goes. :)

Pris
7th April 2015, 03:07
The International Monetary System & The Future Of Money
A MIND BLOWING lecture by Shiekh (not Sheikh) Imran Hosein on the how & why of the inevitable collapse of the dollar and the paper money system.

If you, like me, are not into (organized) religion - Islam in this case - you should skip the first 10 minutes and start the video at 10:30.

The Shiekh has a very pleasant voice to listen to, is also quite witty at times and has a super interesting tale to tell.

I PROMISE YOU, IT WILL ENLIGHTEN & BRIGHTEN YOU!

I'd like to add that when I started watching this lecture I more or less expected to zap it away after a couple of minutes, but I didn't and when it finished after one hour it felt like a much shorter time had past.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNnIC6dkpoI


Could someone please make up a summation of this video for those of us without the time to watch it?

Outlander
9th April 2015, 19:27
Could someone please make up a summation of this video for those of us without the time to watch it?

It's a brilliant snapshot of the past, present and future of the grand economic deception that will eventually enslave the vast majority of the world population.

Bob
9th April 2015, 20:11
Hi Novusod - just got a chance to read Pris's thread, and saw your post Novusod.

I can agree 100% with your post - the manipulation of scarcity for enslavement is the issue..
http://jandeane81.com/threads/6105-The-Abolition-of-The-Monetary-System?p=841912420&viewfull=1#post841912420

Abundance IS the reality, abundance being hidden is the issue, or removing from people the ability to choose abundance based systems, verses scarcity perceived systems.. Abundance is being kept hidden by the slaveres, or spun so that people can't ever see it or even expect that it can be located.

Technologically the science exists for:
* immortality - all medical solutions to solve all diseases with practically zero cost expenditure
* infinite energy
* teleportation/instantaneous zero cost transportation
* food generation (and matter replication of any substance or material)
* instantaneous zero cost communications

The above is kept hidden by the scarcity purveyors.

Thanks again for your post. Thanks Pris for this thread. It's not that hard to understand "scarcity manipulation" (for profit and slavery).

I truly wish others would understand it and act upon it.

One can play around with capitalism, or any other 'ism' and keep some type of ruling class (establishing a hierarchical unequality) and thereby try to justify 'profit'. The nature of 'profit' is to establish unequality and imbalance, getting something for nothing (by using whatever slight of hand justification is possible by a highly adept 'word spinner' attempting to detract from the focus, abundance can exist if scarcity manipulation (for profit) can be eliminated)..

A person or animal may "store" commodity for hard times or to smooth out the production consumption cycle; that is not 'profiting' from the abundance of a harvest, but putting material produced in storage to allow for consumption. There are "time cycles" in the way the environment is set-up. In those time cycles from planting to reaping there is the period from where the new cycle uses a large amount of time to get to the reaping part.

Technologically the 'time lag' can be altered to bypass the issue of the shortage period.. The manipulators of scarcity force on the members of society an artificial way of getting over the hump, and thereby establish the slavery concept..

Those manipulators have stopped technological augmentation shortening the time cycle, which would allow for all products, all needs to be obtained.. to perpetuate the "profit motive" scarcity mentality (have to save for the future shortage, have to borrow in the present ...).

Where the conspiracy exists, it is in the allowance of the manipulators to perpetuate the use of scarcity for their own profit.

Useful references: http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/scarcity-the-big-lie-2/
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/scarcity.aspx


The problem is that with the increased ability of humanity to produce items through technology, the only way to effectively maintain scarcity is through manipulation.

We are told constantly that there isn’t enough energy to go around, but what this really means is that the companies which control the energy don’t want to lose control. While there are multiple means to provide energy the arguments are all centered on cost; we are told that the cost of switching to renewable and accessible energy is simply too high.

Of course, this is not true.

Hermit
9th April 2015, 21:28
To show how a communist system can work, it needs to work without money. Of course communism hasn't worked so far -- money always gets in there and corrupts things.

Even more serious than that Pris: Marx's entire model of the revolution has, unfortunately, never functioned. And that might have to do with the fact that if you dig deep enough you'll realize that he faked his empirical data...which basically renders everything else the man wrote suspect.

Let that one sink in. Then look at the last 200 years of socialist thought, and let it really sink in.

Barter=capitalism. I can go on and on with how the First Nations used a barter system in North America for literally almost 64,000 years. Let that one sink in. Sixty Four Thousand Years of community-based capitalism. Of course its based on a very simple premise: I have something you want, you have something I want, let's trade; it even goes as deep as the spiritual principle of offering tobacco before taking anything from the Earth. You have something I want, I have something you want, I offer you tobacco. Tobacco, as an aside, offered itself to the human being because of all the animals, the human had nothing to give back of it's own accord and needed something.

Communism simply does not work for a hundred reasons. Period. It can't because it's principle architect can't be trusted with the very basic writings on socialist thought.

Sawwy. :)

Hermit
9th April 2015, 21:39
Premise 1. The definition of capitalism is, in modern economic discourse, used incorrectly and mistakenly defined. When an economist speaks of capitalism, they are actually referring to a mixed economy or interventionist model.

Premise 2. Money is not God. If one believes that money is the root of evil, one is subject to the assertion they are best to leave the root of evil behind. There's a guy stateside that did this, someone out there must have seen the youtube vid that was done on him. He did, walk away, and is living quite happily and quite comfortably. If you have are not attached to money, does it not follow you will not be attached to the evils associated with it?

Premise 3. I really do like the ideas behind the UBUNTU movement. Now that something we can agree upon! But...lol BUT! ;)

I was thinking about this when I was waking up this morning and how society has this unhealthy dependence on crude oil, what's happening in the middle/near east right now with Iran, and all that junket. I thought back to a campaign that went viral on the internet a few years ago, asking everyone to boycott one "gas station" company for one day, the theory being that if we, as consumers, could just get up the initiative to hurt one company the entire racket would realize that they don't have us by the proverbial baseballs. It didn't work. This is the thing that really hit me square in the gut today. The reason it didn't work was because people, as a rule, are not willing to give up their comfort in trade for their freedom.

Now how sick is that for Premise 4. People are not willing to give up their comfort for their freedom. That's kind of the punch behind the give up your money thing. If we all sent the same amount of time, or more, working with the poor instead of sitting at our computers talking about what "could" be the global conspiracy....

Premise 5. Just as guilty as all, why don't we want to give up our comfort? And, more importantly, who's behind giving us that comfort to begin with? If it's a matter of shaking up our comfort to do something.... If the comet is going to strike, and let's say for the sake of argument it is right now in the sky streaking towards the planet, the laughable reality is most people? They're going to take out their cell phones and take selfies with the comet behind them.

As I stated in another thread today, what is the greater of the two sins? Using someone knowingly for your benefit, or knowing allowing yourself to be used?

Turn off the computer. Go help old people. I do it every day. They don't even know what a selfie is. :)

ps: what you're describing the UBUNTU movement as doing? Surprise, Pris. That's what capitalism really is. :D PM me. I have a link to a lecture given back, way back, in the 1980's that may shed some light on my position better than I'm doing. More often than not, when I attempt to describe what I think I end up just putting a shoe between my teeth and biting down.

;)

So I guess the root question I'm asking is:

Although I can stand with the sentiment behind what you're saying, and although I can say that I'm actively making changes in my life to reduce the dependancy on the "evil" at the end of the root, what is it going to take to get people to feel uncomfortable enough to start treating people with the dignity and respect they're entitled to? What is it going to take to get people to give up their comfort and see the reality, that the comfort they're loving is actually the slow elevator to hell? And even more interesting, do we continue to try or get off the car and just let it go?

I'm not sure which side of that question I sit on. Most days, I run into people who just ... its not that they can't see the forest for the trees, they are as thick as trees. Every once and a while someone gives me hope. And then....

Being a hermit isn't so bad. ;) Just in case, we should trade addresses in case we need to trade tomatoes for carbon n' sugar. ;)

Pris
10th April 2015, 03:06
It's a brilliant snapshot of the past, present and future of the grand economic deception that will eventually enslave the vast majority of the world population.

Eventually? The vast majority -- if not the entire population -- of the world is already enslaved.

ronin
10th April 2015, 03:13
The Abolition of The Monetary System

just sayin anyone wishing to get rid of their money can send it my way and i will dipose of it.
recycle anyone?;)

Pris
10th April 2015, 03:21
Premise 1. The definition of capitalism is, in modern economic discourse, used incorrectly and mistakenly defined. When an economist speaks of capitalism, they are actually referring to a mixed economy or interventionist model.

Premise 2. Money is not God. If one believes that money is the root of evil, one is subject to the assertion they are best to leave the root of evil behind. There's a guy stateside that did this, someone out there must have seen the youtube vid that was done on him. He did, walk away, and is living quite happily and quite comfortably. If you have are not attached to money, does it not follow you will not be attached to the evils associated with it?

Premise 3. I really do like the ideas behind the UBUNTU movement. Now that something we can agree upon! But...lol BUT! ;)

I was thinking about this when I was waking up this morning and how society has this unhealthy dependence on crude oil, what's happening in the middle/near east right now with Iran, and all that junket. I thought back to a campaign that went viral on the internet a few years ago, asking everyone to boycott one "gas station" company for one day, the theory being that if we, as consumers, could just get up the initiative to hurt one company the entire racket would realize that they don't have us by the proverbial baseballs. It didn't work. This is the thing that really hit me square in the gut today. The reason it didn't work was because people, as a rule, are not willing to give up their comfort in trade for their freedom.

Now how sick is that for Premise 4. People are not willing to give up their comfort for their freedom. That's kind of the punch behind the give up your money thing. If we all sent the same amount of time, or more, working with the poor instead of sitting at our computers talking about what "could" be the global conspiracy....

Premise 5. Just as guilty as all, why don't we want to give up our comfort? And, more importantly, who's behind giving us that comfort to begin with? If it's a matter of shaking up our comfort to do something.... If the comet is going to strike, and let's say for the sake of argument it is right now in the sky streaking towards the planet, the laughable reality is most people? They're going to take out their cell phones and take selfies with the comet behind them.

As I stated in another thread today, what is the greater of the two sins? Using someone knowingly for your benefit, or knowing allowing yourself to be used?

Turn off the computer. Go help old people. I do it every day. They don't even know what a selfie is. :)

ps: what you're describing the UBUNTU movement as doing? Surprise, Pris. That's what capitalism really is. :D PM me. I have a link to a lecture given back, way back, in the 1980's that may shed some light on my position better than I'm doing. More often than not, when I attempt to describe what I think I end up just putting a shoe between my teeth and biting down.

;)

So I guess the root question I'm asking is:

Although I can stand with the sentiment behind what you're saying, and although I can say that I'm actively making changes in my life to reduce the dependancy on the "evil" at the end of the root, what is it going to take to get people to feel uncomfortable enough to start treating people with the dignity and respect they're entitled to? What is it going to take to get people to give up their comfort and see the reality, that the comfort they're loving is actually the slow elevator to hell? And even more interesting, do we continue to try or get off the car and just let it go?

I'm not sure which side of that question I sit on. Most days, I run into people who just ... its not that they can't see the forest for the trees, they are as thick as trees. Every once and a while someone gives me hope. And then....

Being a hermit isn't so bad. ;) Just in case, we should trade addresses in case we need to trade tomatoes for carbon n' sugar. ;)


I can see why you're a hermit, Milneman. :whstl:

Pris
10th April 2015, 03:24
The Abolition of The Monetary System

just sayin anyone wishing to get rid of their money can send it my way and i will dipose of it.
recycle anyone?;)

So funny I forgot to laugh. :fpalm:

Pris
10th April 2015, 03:28
Hi Novusod - just got a chance to read Pris's thread, and saw your post Novusod.

I can agree 100% with your post - the manipulation of scarcity for enslavement is the issue..
http://jandeane81.com/threads/6105-The-Abolition-of-The-Monetary-System?p=841912420&viewfull=1#post841912420

Abundance IS the reality, abundance being hidden is the issue, or removing from people the ability to choose abundance based systems, verses scarcity perceived systems.. Abundance is being kept hidden by the slaveres, or spun so that people can't ever see it or even expect that it can be located.

Technologically the science exists for:
* immortality - all medical solutions to solve all diseases with practically zero cost expenditure
* infinite energy
* teleportation/instantaneous zero cost transportation
* food generation (and matter replication of any substance or material)
* instantaneous zero cost communications

The above is kept hidden by the scarcity purveyors.

Thanks again for your post. Thanks Pris for this thread. It's not that hard to understand "scarcity manipulation" (for profit and slavery).

I truly wish others would understand it and act upon it.

One can play around with capitalism, or any other 'ism' and keep some type of ruling class (establishing a hierarchical unequality) and thereby try to justify 'profit'. The nature of 'profit' is to establish unequality and imbalance, getting something for nothing (by using whatever slight of hand justification is possible by a highly adept 'word spinner' attempting to detract from the focus, abundance can exist if scarcity manipulation (for profit) can be eliminated)..

A person or animal may "store" commodity for hard times or to smooth out the production consumption cycle; that is not 'profiting' from the abundance of a harvest, but putting material produced in storage to allow for consumption. There are "time cycles" in the way the environment is set-up. In those time cycles from planting to reaping there is the period from where the new cycle uses a large amount of time to get to the reaping part.

Technologically the 'time lag' can be altered to bypass the issue of the shortage period.. The manipulators of scarcity force on the members of society an artificial way of getting over the hump, and thereby establish the slavery concept..

Those manipulators have stopped technological augmentation shortening the time cycle, which would allow for all products, all needs to be obtained.. to perpetuate the "profit motive" scarcity mentality (have to save for the future shortage, have to borrow in the present ...).

Where the conspiracy exists, it is in the allowance of the manipulators to perpetuate the use of scarcity for their own profit.

Useful references: http://www.theenvironmentsite.org/scarcity-the-big-lie-2/
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/02/scarcity.aspx

I'm giving this a :Bump: ! Thanks, Bob! :)

Hermit
11th April 2015, 22:31
The Abolition of The Monetary System

just sayin anyone wishing to get rid of their money can send it my way and i will dipose of it.
recycle anyone?;)

HA!!!!!!!!!

Pris
11th April 2015, 23:46
The Abolition of The Monetary System

just sayin anyone wishing to get rid of their money can send it my way and i will dipose of it.
recycle anyone?

HA!!!!!!!!!

This requires two of these: :fpalm: :fpalm:

norman
12th April 2015, 03:23
The Abolition of The Monetary System

just sayin anyone wishing to get rid of their money can send it my way and i will dipose of it.
recycle anyone?

HA!!!!!!!!!


This requires two of these: :fpalm: :fpalm:





Money is harder/more real the less of it you have.

Your post reminds me of the saying that goes:

Kill one person, and you are put in a high security slam up jail.

Kill 10 people, and you are put in a high security sanatorium where you can occasionally walk around the gardens.

Kill 10,000 people, and you are invited to a peace conference.


That's SO like how money manifests itself.

Tonz
12th April 2015, 05:17
Your post reminds me of the saying that goes:

Kill one person, and you are put in a high security slam up jail.

Kill 10 people, and you are put in a high security sanatorium where you can occasionally walk around the gardens.

Kill 10,000 people, and you are invited to a peace conference.


That's SO like how money manifests itself.

And your post norman reminded me of a story from India , i forget the names and time ect but this stuck with me.:

where a female rebel leader not that long ago was told that because you have killed two people means that they will hunt you ,capture you, torture you and en prison you till your death . Kill 40 people and they will negotiate .

Money seems to have the same effect on people.