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Spiral
25th February 2015, 11:27
By Whitley Shrieber

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/disclosure-are-we-ready

http://www.unknowncountry.com/sites/default/files/wsjournal.jpg

When in his final tweet as a presidential adviser, John Podesta said that he was disappointed that he had been unable to achieve release of still secret UFO files in 2014, the general media at first assumed that it was a joke. When his past record on the subject became clear and it was realized that he wasn't joking, most outlets fell silent. The New York Times, the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal were all silent. And yet it's major news when a man of Podesta's stature, not to say his access to classified documents, says something like that.

The silence is telling. It comes because the major media has a seventy year long commitment to the idea that there are no aliens here and the whole subject is nonsense. Scientists and intellectuals, in general, take the same position. The general public, on the other hand, is either indifferent or mildly interested. Religious authorities, led by the Catholic Church, seem more able to face this possibility than those of us who are at the forefront of human exploration, as are scientists and intellectuals.

Years ago at the World Affairs Conference at the University of Colorado, I talked with astronaut Rusty Schweikart about this resistance. He said, "I guess I don't want the way to Mars to be a well-worn path." I thought that, in those few words, he made an enormously important point. The people at the leading edge fear disempowerment. We are trying to find ourselves and our place in the universe, and our scientists and humanists are the ones making the discoveries and gaining the insights.

For example, NASA is just now beginning to think about the possibility of interstellar travel. What happens if that's trumped and turns out to be a commonplace? Generations of exploration will never happen. And what of the mysteries of culture and being that are addressed in philosophy? What if there is a definitive answer to the fundamental philosophical question, 'Why is there something rather than nothing?'

How can we bear to go from our present place in discovery to the end of it? If we come into contact, that could be something we must face. Unless, of course, contact is not what it seems.

And, in fact, that might very well be the case. Not that aliens may not be involved, but rather that 'alien' is the wrong word to describe them. I think that a good beginning would be to discard the 'us' vs. 'them' assumption and start with a new one: we don't know what they are, no more than we know what we are.

In this way we can replace what are already tired assumptions about 'the alien' with a new direction that is filled with wonder and rich with empowerment. Of course, we won't do that, at least not initially. The media will rush to the conventional UFO investigators like Stanton Friedman and Leslie Kean, and possibly some officials like John Podesta and even some presently concealed 'insiders.' They will tell a story that, while it isn't untrue, is also not the whole truth. A beginning, certainly, but also exactly the story that is going to leave mankind's intellectual leading edge in a very difficult space, facing the very sort of disempowerment that could fatally blunt our culture's exploratory sharpness.

This must not be and it need not be. This is because there is a larger, more important reality behind the conventional UFO stories. It is about the way we and the visitors are interpenetrated. It is about finding them in us and us in them. It is about discovering, for example, why it is that, during the abduction years, so many of us encountered our dead along with them. And how they communicate. (A thought: We might begin by by forgetting things like instructions and channeled material, unless there comes to be objective proof that any of it is real.)

What communication we have actually received seems to have been more by way of demonstration. For example, in narrative after narrative, the visitors have identified themselves with the owl. And sure enough, if you study the owl, you will find a whole lot that seems to reflect the way the visitors act in our lives. It's not simple, though. Deep, serious study of the species and of the close encounter narratives will reward one with useful insights about how they want us to see them, and, above all, the place they occupy in nature and the cosmos...and the one we occupy.

The truth is that the scientific and intellectual communities stand to gain the most by disclosure, but it is going to be crucial to at once look past the 'alien vs. human' assumptions and the UFO material, and into the real depths that will open within us and before us.

This will by no means disempower us. On the contrary, it will open useful opportunities to advance our sciences and deepen our cultures in ways that are just now coming into focus. We are going to be able to approach basic questions of science and philosophy in entirely new ways. Just knowing that we are in some way involved in this previously hidden inner and outer form of communication tempts us much more toward renaissance than decline.

We must see this for what it has the potential to be: a feast of newness and discovery. But we should not forget the owl, dangerous bird of the night.

monk
25th February 2015, 12:54
Ahh objective proof, what a pair of words to despise utterly without remorse.

Science accepted it could not provide any explanation to the constant "miracle" occurring at the atomic level and simply trotted off as if objective proof still had any meaning whatsoever.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyFbJFjhxk

FWIW I think we are ready, we didn't get asked to see if all the horrible lies would hurt us.

NANUXII
25th February 2015, 13:00
i think disclosiure should not be forced on anyone but rahter called " discovery " ie when youre ready to look up , please do so.

i cant see the point of telling everyone .. its not going to make anything better , in fact it may just make things worse and i say this because humans in general are immature and not ready for " outsiders "

I think Disclosiure is like Jazz ... the musicians will enjoy it far more than the audience ... Alienophiles want disclosiure possibly because they think it will mean we will be saved.

having said all that i think believers in varying degrees in terms of planetary population would have to be between 60 and 70% imo ...

hmmm

N

monk
25th February 2015, 13:07
Whether you think it should be forced depends on whether you think we are just "chillin out" on this planet or are under attack and need to act accordingly ie ALERTING other people as oppose to trying to softly softly massage them into believing about aliens etc etc. Disclosure can come out of everyone and anyones mouth at any time so long as they have the courage to do so. For most I suggest going out of your home town to do this. lol.

And you shouldn't call yourself Immature when you clearly haven't met enough of yourself to make such generalizations or you wouldn't have arrived at that conclusion. Immature indeed, tsk tsk.

NANUXII
25th February 2015, 13:15
Do you think we are under attack ?

monk
25th February 2015, 13:22
Well... privileged first worlders like me and you who have enough safety, comfort and ability to have this conversation are being attacked in a variety of ways.

But really I mean the other several billion people living like crap so that we can sit here in our Nikes and have this ridiculous conversation about whether a group of wealthy monsters who run our countries are really raping our planet and children.

NANUXII
25th February 2015, 13:22
Whether you think it should be forced depends on whether you think we are just "chillin out" on this planet or are under attack and need to act accordingly ie ALERTING other people as oppose to trying to softly softly massage them into believing about aliens etc etc. Disclosure can come out of everyone and anyones mouth at any time so long as they have the courage to do so. For most I suggest going out of your home town to do this. lol.

And you shouldn't call yourself Immature when you clearly haven't met enough of yourself to make such generalizations or you wouldn't have arrived at that conclusion. Immature indeed, tsk tsk.


call my self immature ? im not following your post ...

NANUXII
25th February 2015, 13:24
Well... privileged first worlders like me and you who have enough safety, comfort and ability to have this conversation are being attacked in a variety of ways.

But really I mean the other several billion people living like crap so that we can sit here in our Nike's and have this ridiculous conversation about whether a group of wealthy monsters who run our countries are really raping and killing us and our children.

whats being attacked by our governments got to do with disclosiure ?

monk
25th February 2015, 13:31
Everything when you consider its because they are attacking us that they cant disclose it. lol

How could one ever gauge humanity's maturity level? What a task! :)

NANUXII
25th February 2015, 13:37
Everything when you consider its because they are attacking us that they cant disclose it. lol

How could one ever gauge humanity's maturity level? What a task! :)

i do have an opinion about humans general maturity and i think its very low. thats just my opinion ..

and the rest of your statements are not making sense to me .. : 0)

N

monk
25th February 2015, 13:44
One day I might make sense. lol.

NANUXII
25th February 2015, 14:00
One day I might make sense. lol.

Let me know when you have a disclosiure lol

KosmicKat
25th February 2015, 14:00
Synchronicity is something I have learned not to ignore. I was turning over the possibility of giving up visiting here because of the seeming improbability that disclosure will ever occur, at least during my remaining years. I was also considering that my own quest for the truth has led me to believe that the question of whether there is life elsewhere in the universe [quiet chuckle]* is intimately linked with my spiritual journey.

-----------------

*The story is told of a pastor who dies and goes to heaven. At the pearly gates St. Peter greets him with a warm welcome, and "because you're one of the shepherds would you like the guided tour?"

The pastor agrees and St. Peter leads him along the first of many corridors. Occasionally they pass a door which St. Peter opens allowing the pastor a brief glimpse and an explanation - "these are the pentecostals, they might seem a bit strange but they're mostly harmless", "these are the presbyterians, I think half of them are probably asleep listening to the sermon for today!", as they approach one door he explains "that smell? incense, these are the catholics".

Then a short distance from another door he holds up his hand and signals for the pastor to pause. In a whisper "take a deep breath and hold it while we tiptoe past this door. I'm sorry, we can't look in there, and we mustn't make a sound". Even though the pastor can hear singing from behind the door, he does as St. Peter instructs, but on the far side of the door when the saint signals that he can breathe again, he has a question:

"Why did we have to tiptoe past that door? But all the others we could take a look inside?"

"I should have explained first." the saint apologizes. "That room is given over to a handful that got here from the Westboro Baptists. They think they're the only ones here! And management decided it would save trouble if we didn't disillusion them."

Spiral
25th February 2015, 19:37
What if instead of "disclosure" (whatever that is supposed to mean ) they just stop covering things up.

How about for starters the military handing over copies of the aerial pursuit videos they have to the news agencies or even truther sites ?

monk
25th February 2015, 19:42
The military just follow orders, sigh. An old friend of mine got a job with MI5 on "terrorist watch" ( hanging around curry houses waiting for Muslims to buy fertiliser. Lmao) and he really didn't care about much else other than his pay check.

We however are not bound by orders.

Spiral
25th February 2015, 19:51
Just who's orders do they follow though ?

Not one of our elected "leaders" knows jack about this stuff, & they wouldn't even be allowed on certain bases, Camoron would be no more allowed into the underground facilities at "RAF" (lol) Menwith Hill than Obummer would be allowed to look round Area 51...and there are way more secret bases than those two.

monk
25th February 2015, 19:57
Well said, who's orders indeed!

Compartmentalisation is the real problem, I've had to explain certain things to people I know that really shouldn't have had to be told by a jumped up whipper snapper like me..

mojo
26th February 2015, 00:47
The question in the OP should be is the PTB ready? ... Don't think they are and a citizen will have to force their hand. That seems dangerous as they have silenced and even killed people over secrets. We can't even get answers for things we know are not true. Also past history shows they want to hold on to many of them. It's very sad and the other side of the coin is there are many that will remain skeptical even with solid proof. So really it comes down to personal experiences. Some of those are such solid evidence yet how frustrating not being able to have society acknowledge them. There was another thread it read something like, Boston Globe acknowledges proof of an ufo encounter... it's laughable when there is so much proof already.

lookbeyond
26th February 2015, 00:55
Hi All, i can see so many points of view here and to me they all make sense. One of the things ive noticed about myself lately is that i feel a little amused/irritated with those who are still deeply "religious" and relying on "whoever" to save/help them and yet the paradox is that I am not completely ready to "let go " of the possibility that there is some type of "Spiritual" assistance available to help us also.

I agree that we need to stop "covering up" the things that have been lied about be it UFOs/EDs right thru to free energy and real cures for disease being kept/hidden from us.

To me, these "revelations" to Humanity will "force" some to grow up however in doing so this will empower us be it now or for those who are "shellshocked"- in their future. I feel ready to know the "truth ", and i also feel that if the ETs/EDs are "tricking" us into beliefs that there is a "Spiritual Hierarchy" when it is really them , well we NEED to know,lb

Elbie
26th February 2015, 00:57
The question in the OP should be is the PTB ready? ... Don't think they are and a citizen will have to force their hand. That seems dangerous as they have silenced and even killed people over secrets. We can't even get answers for things we know are not true. Also past history shows they want to hold on to many of them. It's very sad and the other side of the coin is there are many that will remain skeptical even with solid proof. So really it comes down to personal experiences. Some of those are such solid evidence yet how frustrating not being able to have society acknowledge them. There was another thread it read something like, Boston Globe acknowledges proof of an ufo encounter... it's laughable when there is so much proof already.

plus, i forsee various pressure groups campaigning for a chat chance...govenrment agencies would be innundated with people's requests to have a hand shake with ufo occupants..cdc would get into a panic mode.:frantic:

mojo
26th February 2015, 01:13
if the ETs/EDs are "tricking" us into beliefs

Hi LB, This thought seems to be going around yet sharing from personal experience they have never tried to trick me into a belief, if that helps to balance the equation, and not saying that it doesnt happen in some cases just sharing it didnt happen in mine...:)

Elbie
26th February 2015, 01:39
Hi LB, This thought seems to be going around yet sharing from personal experience they have never tried to trick me into a belief, if that helps to balance the equation, and not saying that it doesnt happen in some cases just sharing it didnt happen in mine...:)


even if we had 10+ more accounts similar to yours here on this forum alone, it wouldn't be good enuogh to draw conclusions. simlarly, the accounts dissimilar to yours don't make a good case to assume otherwise..the problem being, not many people volunteer to recount their experiences..even you are leaving too much room for all sorts of interpretations.

example: what can be deduced from what you have said: your encountered Ets, didn't try to impose on you any belief systems. not enough to make any further assumptions. cos we don't know if they wouldn't try it on some other occasion at a later date.

mojo
26th February 2015, 02:04
don't know, think it's possible to make an hypothesis...can't discount over five years of contact, but agree can't say much more, an ongoing history should be part of a theory so do have that as a basis when making one and did include that as justification in mine.

Elbie
26th February 2015, 02:10
don't know, think it's possible to make an hypothesis...can't discount over five years of contact, but agree can't say much more, an ongoing history should be part of a theory so do have that as a basis when making one and did include that as justification in mine.

i hope what you are saying is that you are appreciative of contrary theories based on different experiences.

mojo
26th February 2015, 02:37
Certainly, that was first reply to LB... :)

donk
26th February 2015, 16:16
I smell what you're cooking monk.

To me...seems like disclosure is happening, and it's the opposite of we've learned to ask for**.It's each individual's shedding of long held emotionally attached beliefs, a slow but sure acceptance of reality for what it really is, rather than "what THEY have told us".

Thanks for posting that spiral, I really like WS's take on it

**instead of demanding "truths", we should be helping each other shed our "lies"...in my opinion, of course

NANUXII
26th February 2015, 21:24
Hi All, i can see so many points of view here and to me they all make sense. One of the things ive noticed about myself lately is that i feel a little amused/irritated with those who are still deeply "religious" and relying on "whoever" to save/help them and yet the paradox is that I am not completely ready to "let go " of the possibility that there is some type of "Spiritual" assistance available to help us also.

I agree that we need to stop "covering up" the things that have been lied about be it UFOs/EDs right thru to free energy and real cures for disease being kept/hidden from us.

To me, these "revelations" to Humanity will "force" some to grow up however in doing so this will empower us be it now or for those who are "shellshocked"- in their future. I feel ready to know the "truth ", and i also feel that if the ETs/EDs are "tricking" us into beliefs that there is a "Spiritual Hierarchy" when it is really them , well we NEED to know,lb

LB you dont have to ever give up on the fact that there is assistance. Those who seek it are the ones who receive it. The rest of the sleepers keep on perpetuating sleep, Both are fine and according to free will.

Fistly regarding " being told " whats happening is not and has never been the modus operandi of those in power , it would give away the advantage. So thats not likely.

There IS a spiritual layered existance MOST DEFINITELY but its not how we have come to precieve it. The idea we call it a Hierachy is not correct in the mechanical sence of the word.

The Law of Free Will prevents benevolent species interacting with us unless we seek it out directly. Suffice to say looking towards soul less humans like polititians for guidance is the fiurst thing we would want to stop doing. We need to ignore them like you would ignore your neighbours brat that steals your tomatoes.

Im not directing this at anyone in particular but can i just let you all in on a little secret ... there is no cover up. The fact that we know so much so far is proof, the difference is people who dont know dont want to know , the ones that do have the free will to discover it proportional to their own free will and subjectivity.

The very idea that some believe that beings are tricking us ... thats just a lack of confidense in the self.

Self Doubt , if we have self doubt then looking outward is not going to help it but rather confuse it more.

The distractiothat this causes IS very good for them ... as in a race of self appointed ptb'ers

you dont have to live by their rules , or work 9 to 5 in a cubicle. You just have to elevate your self and break the mental blocks inserted by slave mentality. If you want it to be different stop waiting for a saviour to wipe your bums ... just do it .. go on .. take that step ! the fact we are waiting for permission only re enfirces the idea that you are a trapped slave .. thats an illusion within an illusion.

when people talk to me about being caught up and i tell them about how im off the merry go round they invariably tell me " Im Lucky " and i respectfully tell them , " Thats BS "

Luck is when preperation meets opportunity, Courage is to take that opportunity and never look back !

get up and just do it !

go on ! RIGHT NOW ! go !
Go !

Gooooo !


N

The One
26th February 2015, 22:28
The Law of Free Will prevents benevolent species interacting with us unless we seek it out directly

Can you expand on this.What i do not get about this free will thingy for example if we believe that most of what we have been told is false as per our history and that we are being controlled by tptb then the whole of the human population free will has been interfered with.Surely then this would make the whole free will thing void and let the species interact with us anyway

777
26th February 2015, 22:44
Can you expand on this.What i do not get about this free will thingy for example if we believe that most of what we have been told is false as per our history and that we are being controlled by tptb then the whole of the human population free will has been interfered with.Surely then this would make the whole free will thing void and let the species interact with us anyway

I find lack of interference indicative of the degree of benevolence towards us. Without wanting to offend or patronise any of us humans I find the following analogy works for me:

If you are a parent teaching your child to ride a bike, you have to let go of the bike at some point and let them hurt themselves, it's sad but necessary most of the time. If that child then grows up into a perfectly good bike rider, they may choose to fly down a mountain at 40 kmph on their bike, while you watch, still a distressed, worried parent.

What are you going to do if they fall off? Kick the hell out the rock that caused it? Blame the bike? Talk the child/now adult out of bike riding at all? Or accept that this their choice and the interferences therein are part and parcel of that choice.

Now expand it further. What if riding that bike is the ONLY way to progress as a species. Welcome to Earth.

donk
26th February 2015, 22:45
I was actually copying the same quote...it is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.


The Law of Free Will prevents benevolent species interacting with us unless we seek it out directly.

So you're saying there's a "Law of Free Will" that completely NEGATES actual free will??

lookbeyond
26th February 2015, 23:23
LB you dont have to ever give up on the fact that there is assistance. Those who seek it are the ones who receive it. The rest of the sleepers keep on perpetuating sleep, Both are fine and according to free will.

Fistly regarding " being told " whats happening is not and has never been the modus operandi of those in power , it would give away the advantage. So thats not likely.

There IS a spiritual layered existance MOST DEFINITELY but its not how we have come to precieve it. The idea we call it a Hierachy is not correct in the mechanical sence of the word.

The Law of Free Will prevents benevolent species interacting with us unless we seek it out directly. Suffice to say looking towards soul less humans like polititians for guidance is the fiurst thing we would want to stop doing. We need to ignore them like you would ignore your neighbours brat that steals your tomatoes.

Im not directing this at anyone in particular but can i just let you all in on a little secret ... there is no cover up. The fact that we know so much so far is proof, the difference is people who dont know dont want to know , the ones that do have the free will to discover it proportional to their own free will and subjectivity.

The very idea that some believe that beings are tricking us ... thats just a lack of confidense in the self.

Self Doubt , if we have self doubt then looking outward is not going to help it but rather confuse it more.

The distractiothat this causes IS very good for them ... as in a race of self appointed ptb'ers

you dont have to live by their rules , or work 9 to 5 in a cubicle. You just have to elevate your self and break the mental blocks inserted by slave mentality. If you want it to be different stop waiting for a saviour to wipe your bums ... just do it .. go on .. take that step ! the fact we are waiting for permission only re enfirces the idea that you are a trapped slave .. thats an illusion within an illusion.

when people talk to me about being caught up and i tell them about how im off the merry go round they invariably tell me " Im Lucky " and i respectfully tell them , " Thats BS "

Luck is when preperation meets opportunity, Courage is to take that opportunity and never look back !

get up and just do it !

go on ! RIGHT NOW ! go !
Go !

Gooooo !


N

Hi Nanu, thank you for your reply. Are you able to expand on what you said about those who ask for assistance will receive? -whom do we/you ask of (?God etc) - many years ago i asked in fact begged for help from God for my sick daughter- i was exhausted, it was night and a pair of beautiful black arms and hands appeared protectively over her head, they had colourful bands/bangles on them 2 on one arm and 3 on the other, they had a platinum illuminous outline and remained there and i was able to get some sleep.
I still wonder "who" came to us that night, who is my God- what is my God.

All i do know is that my daughter is well and our Visitor gave me great peace.

As i search for truth in this world, i read that "Angels" may be "Benevolent ETs" and "demons" may be greys/draco/djinn- i dont know, and who really does, i say this because we have all had our own special experiences for eg Mojo in his post above, foxfire in her posts as Bluefire at PA and these experiences affect us so profoundly and there are such a variety of experiences that to collate all these and get a big picture is imo impossible.

So we carry on searching,reading, gathering info and then what,we pass over and maybe we start all over with our confusion, i feel a little disheartened by this all as i was hoping to have some useful "guidance" for my children, but i still dont know whether to go to the light or not.. among many other things which involve "free will"

lb

NANUXII
26th February 2015, 23:32
Hi Nanu, thank you for your reply. Are you able to expand on what you said about those who ask for assistance will receive? -whom do we/you ask of (?God etc) - many years ago i asked in fact begged for help from God for my sick daughter- i was exhausted, it was night and a pair of beautiful black arms and hands appeared protectively over her head, they had colourful bands/bangles on them 2 on one arm and 3 on the other, they had a platinum illuminous outline and remained there and i was able to get some sleep.
I still wonder "who" came to us that night, who is my God- what is my God.

All i do know is that my daughter is well and our Visitor gave me great peace.

As i search for truth in this world, i read that "Angels" may be "Benevolent ETs" and "demons" may be greys/draco/djinn- i dont know, and who really does, i say this because we have all had our own special experiences for eg Mojo in his post above, foxfire in her posts as Bluefire at PA and these experiences affect us so profoundly and there are such a variety of experiences that to collate all these and get a big picture is imo impossible.

So we carry on searching,reading, gathering info and then what,we pass over and maybe we start all over with our confusion, i feel a little disheartened by this all as i was hoping to have some useful "guidance" for my children, but i still dont know whether to go to the light or not.. among many other things which involve "free will"

lb

To ruin the illusion with knowledge may be worse than knowing the truth.. Magic happens when you summon it .. who cares who they are , just thank them and know they heard you.

when you asked for assistance i bet it was done with love and true heart. that was the attractant resonance that summoned oine who was willing to assist. Like attracts Like.

Be what it is you want to experience from the heart , and thats what you will find beside you when you need it.

N

Breeze
26th February 2015, 23:33
I find lack of interference indicative of the degree of benevolence towards us. Without wanting to offend or patronise any of us humans I find the following analogy works for me:

If you are a parent teaching your child to ride a bike, you have to let go of the bike at some point and let them hurt themselves, it's sad but necessary most of the time. If that child then grows up into a perfectly good bike rider, they may choose to fly down a mountain at 40 kmph on their bike, while you watch, still a distressed, worried parent.

What are you going to do if they fall off? Kick the hell out the rock that caused it? Blame the bike? Talk the child/now adult out of bike riding at all? Or accept that this their choice and the interferences therein are part and parcel of that choice.

Now expand it further. What if riding that bike is the ONLY way to progress as a species. Welcome to Earth.

I hear you 777, I have been there too brov, and stayed there for quite some time.

In my present mindstate (and simply purely my own opinion) this analogy concept worked for a while for me, then……..

What IF in such an analogy this concept is an event contained in just one page of a vast Eternal Book called LIFE. The children are learning to ride the bike but keep repeating over and over the 'same page'’ learning to ride the bike, forgetting………… then learning to ride the bike, forgetting,…….. then learning to ride the bike, forgetting………. and so on until they forget there is such a thing called a bike. Perhaps this analogy has played out spreading into different Earth Cycles/Timelines/Parallels; So many REPEATS upon REPEATS………and it is ‘still’ the 'SAME PAGE'.

Is there a 'point' where greater Intelligence would step in?

What if such a scenario has turned into a 'stasis page' or even an ‘off shoot page’ or at worse, a ‘downgrade page’ of downward consciousness spiralling, riddled with traps that were not the original author's intent but invented by others who discovered there were ways to manipulate the said ‘page’ for their own benefits?

At what point in the countless REPEATS does there ‘arrive’ a decision that decides ‘enough’.

Whereby wise gentle unconditional loving assistance gives a gentle nudge in the right direction,
Momentum of Evolution begins to fire up........
and the bicycle is no longer required………… as we realise through re-remembering we are our own UFO’s!

TURN TO NEXT PAGE

Simply throwing this thought out there............................:magic:,

lookbeyond
26th February 2015, 23:34
To ruin the illusion with knowledge may be worse than knowing the truth.. Magic happens when you summon it .. who cares who they are , just thank them and know they heard you.

when you asked for assistance i bet it was done with love and true heart. that was the attractant resonance that summoned oine who was willing to assist. Like attracts Like.

Be what it is you want to experience from the heart , and thats what you will find beside you when you need it.

N

I hope so Nanu, thanks for the reminder, lb

NANUXII
26th February 2015, 23:40
I was actually copying the same quote...it is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.



So you're saying there's a "Law of Free Will" that completely NEGATES actual free will??



The Law of Free Will is Universal , even here on earth we are only allowed to be governed proportional to our own consent.

777 articulated it brilliantly in the above post.



So you're saying there's a "Law of Free Will" that completely NEGATES actual free will??

i am mazed at people that put words in mouths and expect an intelligent answer..

thats your interpretation and you are re directing it as if i said it ... how can i answer your internal misunderstanding ?

NANUXII
26th February 2015, 23:42
I hope so Nanu, thanks for the reminder, lb

Why would you still hope after you lived the experience ? Dont be a Catholic LB , KNOW IT COS YOU EXPERIENCED IT !

Say to your self " Yep ! That Just Happened ! YEAAAH ! " and add that to your magical power purse.

N

NANUXII
26th February 2015, 23:47
The Darwinian theory of Survival Of The Fittest comes in here.

The ones who , after many generations of being put in cotton wool have a direct linneage to being most useless.

Ultimately a being of greater spheres of influence wants to breed souls that are useful and manifest good outcomes. The most powerful type of love is selfless love.. people who cower and control to save them selves the fear of pain are selfish and afraid to explore their own emotions.

Let the kid fall off the bike ... then go and teach it how to do it better next time. Knowing that there are obstacles is life , learning to negotiate them is teaching and progression ultimately.

N


I hear you 777, I have been there too brov, and stayed there for quite some time.

In my present mindstate (and simply purely my own opinion) this analogy concept worked for a while for me, then……..

What IF in such an analogy this concept is an event contained in just one page of a vast Eternal Book called LIFE. The children are learning to ride the bike but keep repeating over and over the 'same page'’ learning to ride the bike, forgetting………… then learning to ride the bike, forgetting,…….. then learning to ride the bike, forgetting………. and so on until they forget there is such a thing called a bike. Perhaps this analogy has played out spreading into different Earth Cycles/Timelines/Parallels; So many REPEATS upon REPEATS………and it is ‘still’ the 'SAME PAGE'.

Is there a 'point' where greater Intelligence would step in?

What if such a scenario has turned into a 'stasis page' or even an ‘off shoot page’ or at worse, a ‘downgrade page’ of downward consciousness spiralling, riddled with traps that were not the original author's intent but invented by others who discovered there were ways to manipulate the said ‘page’ for their own benefits?

At what point in the countless REPEATS does there ‘arrive’ a decision that decides ‘enough’.

Whereby wise gentle unconditional loving assistance gives a gentle nudge in the right direction,
Momentum of Evolution begins to fire up........
and the bicycle is no longer required………… as we realise through re-remembering we are our own UFO’s!

TURN TO NEXT PAGE

Simply throwing this thought out there............................:magic:,

Breeze
27th February 2015, 00:29
Snippet:
The Darwinian theory of Survival Of The Fittest comes in here..... N

Sorry, you have just lost me totally now bringing up the Darwinian theory of ‘survival of the fittest’.

I hope you take this as a kind progressive suggestion; it would behove you to check out the works of Lloyd Pie and also the ‘2 authors' behind the Darwinian theory...... and maybe discover it was just a ‘theory’ that still to this day has no factual archaeological evidence to back it up.

And deeper down that rabbit hole one might discover it was a foresighted strategic manoeuvre NWO mind control belief system giving the people an education that would justify so many things…….. And not ‘notice’……………………………….

If one really observes Nature, one will discover Nature works in a contribution system and also evolves through adaptation – i.e. flowing in harmony with the environment and all life. Such is a very different concept compared to Darwinian ‘theory’ that is ‘war like and competitive’. There might be a clue there somewhere.

For me, Nature is a great teacher for those who have the ears to ‘listen’ and eyes that really see.

Off to bed now for sweet inspiring journeys Elsewhere. Sweet dreams everyone. :magic:,

donk
27th February 2015, 01:57
M
The Law of Free Will is Universal , even here on earth we are only allowed to be governed proportional to our own consent.

777 articulated it brilliantly in the above post.



i am mazed at people that put words in mouths and expect an intelligent answer..

thats your interpretation and you are re directing it as if i said it ... how can i answer your internal misunderstanding ?

Well I interpret "we are only allowed" as a violation of free will. I guess some will is free-er than others? 777 describes a "lack of interference" implying the beings that could, choose not to interfere, shows benevolence.

You said there's a law of free will that prevents beings from interfering with us. To me that is a negation of their free will. I apologize for my lack of intelligence in trying to understand your words, thanks for clarifying

mojo
27th February 2015, 04:31
If the forum is a reflection of society as a whole the answer to the OP would be no sadly...there is simply too much division, but still within the masses there are those that have experienced it or are ready for it. My heart would be to share an encounter with someone that has never seen an ufo. There was a time in the past that my desire was so overwhelming for a sighting and believe there are still some wishing that.

monk
27th February 2015, 11:20
I smell what you're cooking monk.

Disclosure is happening for sure, just too many "awake and aware" are expecting Obama to knock on their door with coffee, donuts and a personal invitation to meet an alien.. Your points made about free-will also resonate with me donk as I shall now elaborate on thusly...




The Law of Free Will prevents benevolent species interacting with us unless we seek it out directly. Suffice to say looking towards soul less humans like polititians for guidance is the fiurst thing we would want to stop doing. We need to ignore them like you would ignore your neighbours brat that steals your tomatoes.


Ok so firstly Nanu, your a sucky neighbour! lol
In my community we ignore NOTHING, least of all children who need to be caught and reminded that stealing is wrong, not simply ignored. Secondly, your assertion that the politicians need to be left alone could not be further from mine. If anything their lives should be a misery, with constant calls, emails, letters and being accosted in the streets.


The very idea that some believe that beings are tricking us ... thats just a lack of confidense in the self

Free Will means you can do what you want. Meaning, not everyone in existence has to play nice. There are plenty of beings whose activities could be described as "trickster", well, until they "trick" you out of your body that is. Life is a Gift many would happily trick you out of.







Nature is a great teacher for those who have the ears to ‘listen’ and eyes that really see.

I could not possibly agree more with this statement even if it ended with "and everyone should smoke weed"...

norman
27th February 2015, 11:47
Being "ready" might turn out to be about being able to cope if things come crashing down to earth ( pun intended ) quite soon without a lot of fancy plausible deniability games from the likes of Hollywood, Vatican and Gurus.

It seems to me, now, that the planners who had all this staked out and controlled are themselves scattering to the winds and leaving whatever it is to happen as it will.

Judging by the rumors that some of them are being shot out of the sky trying to escape, they ( who surely know the most about it ) must think it's happening right now and very fast.

I'm getting the distinct impression that all plans are off.

Think what that may mean, as a population where 98% is going to experience it like a 2 by 4 in the face.

NANUXII
27th February 2015, 18:35
M

Well I interpret "we are only allowed" as a violation of free will. I guess some will is free-er than others? 777 describes a "lack of interference" implying the beings that could, choose not to interfere, shows benevolence.

You said there's a law of free will that prevents beings from interfering with us. To me that is a negation of their free will. I apologize for my lack of intelligence in trying to understand your words, thanks for clarifying

Again you are putting stupid words in my mouth that came from your brain to create an argument.

NANUXII
27th February 2015, 18:48
Snippet:

Sorry, you have just lost me totally now bringing up the Darwinian theory of ‘survival of the fittest’.

I hope you take this as a kind progressive suggestion; it would behove you to check out the works of Lloyd Pie and also the ‘2 authors' behind the Darwinian theory...... and maybe discover it was just a ‘theory’ that still to this day has no factual archaeological evidence to back it up.

And deeper down that rabbit hole one might discover it was a foresighted strategic manoeuvre NWO mind control belief system giving the people an education that would justify so many things…….. And not ‘notice’……………………………….

If one really observes Nature, one will discover Nature works in a contribution system and also evolves through adaptation – i.e. flowing in harmony with the environment and all life. Such is a very different concept compared to Darwinian ‘theory’ that is ‘war like and competitive’. There might be a clue there somewhere.

For me, Nature is a great teacher for those who have the ears to ‘listen’ and eyes that really see.

Off to bed now for sweet inspiring journeys Elsewhere. Sweet dreams everyone. :magic:,

i think in a perfect world id prefer your model, however its not that perfect yet. Survival of the fittest is a model that has nothing to do with war but more to do with evolution.

in the contect of this point i refer to Children being alloowed to grow through their own mistakes, sometimes survival is important to learn, to understand that is to understand being fit to survive. Try and put Y generation into a survival scenario and see if it can , bake bread, make a camp fire , find shelter , gather food , filter and refine water ... these are all survival instincts that have nothing to do with war but rather self reliance, whits, common sense ,

the Darwinian theory can be adapted to anything because its a theory .. look at any business or school , sports event , olympics ... its all about pushing your self to excell and these are all representations of survival of the fittest.

and please dont put any suggestions forward , i mean this as a basic survival instinct. You survive if you are fit to do so. You learn how by becoming fit.

N

norman
27th February 2015, 19:32
As this topic is just about still 'on', I'll throw in my own view on "survival of the fittest".

There is a huge difference between fitness and domination. Long term, they are polar opposites.

Domination is pre-destined towards it's own extinction because domination leads eventually to a "reduction" effect on the species gene pool. This evolution towards extinction doesn't happen in species that never pop their heads up over the fence and set up dominant behaviors.

All around us are species that have survived since 'dot' purely because they never were dominant. On the other hand, the fossil record is packed with exotic and once dominant but eventual failures. Their dominant behavior did them in, in the long term.

Clearly, a wise definition of fitness must not be taken-in or intellectually intimidated by the short term illusion that dominance equals fittest.

ronin
27th February 2015, 20:04
Disclosure are we ready?

looking for my Sunday best,,,,,:frantic:

donk
27th February 2015, 21:30
I think transcending "survival of fittest", Ie the first layer of maslows hierarchy of needs, is what makes being human different than what many consider "lower" species.

To look up to another type of being like a dog does his owner is odd type of behavior in my book. I think a "universal law" or "right" worth living a for, a worthy ideal (to me) is to try to get as many of our species above the survival level. I don't believe true "humans" would actively prevent that, as seems to be happening.

The intra-species survival of the fittest mentality is what allows disclosure to be such a seemingly complex issue. It should be just truth, shared freely amongst us all. Some of "humans" have been tricked or manipulated or something into spreading horrible mentality that deception is ok, is just "survival of fittest"

Disclosure will flow more smoothly once that idea becomes more widespread, I believe. We have to get the critical mass to understand its self-destructive to try "getting ahead" or higher up maslow's pyramid at the expense of others. Then information can be "de-weaponized"

777
27th February 2015, 22:45
Again you are putting stupid words in my mouth that came from your brain to create an argument. I think you are an idiot.

a dead set idiot.

read what is written , then do not re arrange it to mean something else

For gods sake man ! are you that bored ?

Donk has a perfectly valid question. That reads pretty horribly.

NANUXII
28th February 2015, 02:45
Darwinian Survival of the Fittest : the confusions and arguments , however valid and i think wshould be allowed personally , are subject to interpretation.

Some clearly interpret it as a war like indicative. Or as a means to create soldiers.

Some may also think that our disgracious leaders are people who live by this creed. I wold say the opposite is true.

A truly powerful being that has survived by its own intelligence and learning is less likely to be a control freak. Control freaks like our inglorious leaders are suviving by being handed down entitlement and bully their way forward , i would say if you cornered one of them alone they would be like a spoilt little brat sucking its thumb asking for mommy.

thats not a survivalist imo.

so interpretations are important , and its also interesting what people tend to think ... thats more of a tell really.

I would look to the story of the 5 good Cesar's to articulate my point. In this story the last being Marcus Aurelius , it shows the 5 good cesars or emperors were selected by their contributions as ooposed to being successor in relation.

This is the opposite of whats happening with out leadership and its because the fittest is not allowed to survive indeed the fittest is kept by the way side. And i mean people like Ron Paul who is actually very peaceful however is a survivalist, he suvives in a community of morons. Of all the US administration is the only one that makes any sence what so ever. Will he ever get a chance to be President ? NOOOO !
Why ?

Because he isnt one of the selected family of thumb suckers... Kennedy was the last of the true elected leaders of our recent history in terms of the US.

He was a survivalist and a strong and moroally competent leader ( except for his womanising, perhaps he spent too much time with Berlusoconi )

so my interpretation of Survival of the fittest is metaphorially identical to these stories. imo.

N

N

NANUXII
28th February 2015, 03:14
Survival of the fittest , i think you will find , is the basic builging block of all species everywhere.

universally speaking

donk
2nd March 2015, 12:47
Thanks for sticking up for me, especially since capturing the sentiment shows so much more about him than me (hopefully). I might not be the sharpest tack in the box, but I'd rather be an idiot than believe ruthless competition (rather than loving cooperation), is the "natural law".

I run my mouth on the subject so much because I actually believe a lot of what's written and discussed here, I beleve that we are capable of manifesting the reality would like to experience, so even if I'm wrong...I'm trying, hoping to experience something different.

I also believe most of you...who have actually experienced disclosure in real life, and have chosen to share it with us. I appreciate that way more than I ever could any official announcement...yeah even disclosures like Nainu's, from the abusive-relationship-loving control freaks that'd hold humanity lower than them, slaves for all eternity.

I am not trying to argue...just trying my best to BE real change

Seikou-Kishi
2nd March 2015, 15:49
Lol survival of the fittest. We're living on a planet with seven billion arguments against survival of the fittest XD

NANUXII
3rd March 2015, 20:58
Thanks for sticking up for me, especially since capturing the sentiment shows so much more about him than me (hopefully). I might not be the sharpest tack in the box, but I'd rather be an idiot than believe ruthless competition (rather than loving cooperation), is the "natural law".

I run my mouth on the subject so much because I actually believe a lot of what's written and discussed here, I beleve that we are capable of manifesting the reality would like to experience, so even if I'm wrong...I'm trying, hoping to experience something different.

I also believe most of you...who have actually experienced disclosure in real life, and have chosen to share it with us. I appreciate that way more than I ever could any official announcement...yeah even disclosures like Nainu's, from the abusive-relationship-loving control freaks that'd hold humanity lower than them, slaves for all eternity.

I am not trying to argue...just trying my best to BE real change

Hi Donk , please accept my apologies and short comings with my answers. I feel that where the confusion comes in is when someone writes a statement like eg, " Survival of the fittest "

it is a natural tendency for people to assume their interpretation over the interpretation of the person stating it..

and then going head long into an argument using their assumtion as opposed to finding out what the original interpretation was .. that's very important in understanding what people are trying to convey.

Hence my comment of going off half cocked. If you are finding a concept difficult to understand then ask questions in a respectful manner as opoosed to being offended by something you dont quite get yet.

Your comment " living in ruthless competition " is indicative that you still dont get my point , my point is very clear yet you still super impose your idea of what i said over what i actuially said .. does sthat make sense ? So in fact no matter how i re state it its never going to make sence to you till you stop your opinions and read , verbatum , what i wrote without your assumptive re organisation. I believe this may be causing you great distress in life as i can see it has to me.

And if you think im being sarcastic then again youve got the wrong idea.

N

NANUXII
3rd March 2015, 21:28
Lol survival of the fittest. We're living on a planet with seven billion arguments against survival of the fittest XD

from a limited point of view , i wouldnt doubt it.

NANUXII
3rd March 2015, 22:06
here is something i posted to clarify my points , it was removed .. i have edited it to read better.

this is what i wrote , the bold bit was left off and then created another meaning ... this is going to confuse the original meaning.

The Law of Free Will prevents benevolent species interacting with us unless we seek it out directly

Clarification:

do you think a benevolent entity would interact with us without permission ? That would negate it being considered Benevolent in the first place. Doing so is going against free will .. however if you ask for help then thats an invitation which creates a forum for interaction.

this is what i wrote

" Suffice to say looking towards soul less humans like polititians for guidance is the first thing we would want to stop doing "

let me re interpret that for you , DONT LISTEN TO IDIOTS ( like politittians ) AND EXPECT GOOD THINGS. .

donk
3rd March 2015, 22:43
do you think a benevolent entity would interact with us without permission ?

If it had free will. I like to think of myself of benevolent to my friends and family, I don't always ask persmission to interact. Does that mean I am violating a universal law?


Doing so is going against free will

I guess I am an idiot...because I thought free will meant something different. I thought going against free will would mean actually violating anothers'? A simple interaction, a greeting, for example...needs some sort of contract/agreement or it is not "benevolent" and is violating "free will"?

Stupid or not, I think of benevolent beings as those I wouldn't mind interacting with me, without some sort of telepathic knowledge of me--somehow KNOWING I AGREED TO IT...even if I personally did not even realize it.

I guess I'm simple...and simplifying things too much? I think of free will as the ability (or illusion that I have the ability) to make a choice. A being interacting with me does not necessarily violate mine, nor does it determine benevolence at all JUST/ONLY based on the fact it chose it interact with me.

If I've given some sort of universal consent to benevolent beings to interact, I was not aware of it...perhaps I'm a malevolent being?

...either way...I'm ready for disclosure (I think)? :tiphat:

NANUXII
3rd March 2015, 23:16
Lets dispel the " idiot " part of the conversation , as this is holding on to self pity.

Let that go if you can.

Its difficult to understand Benevolent Beings , they do not interfere with the law of Free Will because they understand it better than we do. Allowing Free Will without interaction actually allows us to grow through experience.

Juxtapose a street kid that becomes a great leader to a spoilt brat that becomes a tyrant. These individuals became what they did purely because they were left to their own devices and evolved to be what is in their make up.

Should we intgeract with the street kid and turn it into a spoilt brat ? Or take the spoilt brat and put it on the street ? that is messing with free will .. and would un naturally change their purposed outcomes. We are not to judge the changes for others unless they ask for it.

How many people do you know that you tried to help out that still went back to their old ways ? were you hurt by this ? did this make you upset ? well its because they werent ready to change and had to hit a critical mass of understanding , sometimes called " Rock Bottom " then the moment of clarity can happen .. thats when the change happens.. this change is deep seeded and usually permanet when allowed to gesatate to its own preferred internal natural matrix.

Pushing outcomes is what we see in the world with bulliy government factions killing in the name of market share. But its allpart of the over sight of this planet.. the critical mass event must be a natural progression or it will contain distortions manifest in future time lines.

When i see a kid on a bike about to make a mistake or fall , i dont interact unless i can forsee it will be seriously injured or permanently injured. That just my human weakness.. If its goign to be just a little fall and graze then ill help the kid up , calm it down with some kind words and then ask the child what happend ? how did you fall ? in that critical moment the child is chllenged to recognise the fault .. it then remembers this in the emotional moment and has this in its understanding for next time. The child is allowed to grow and become self relyint and intelligent.

In terms of Survival of the Fittest. I would postulate that the less ability we have to survive IE rely on Supermarkets and Governments to wipe our bottoms, the more enslaved we become. When we need to survive we will be lost without the i phone app or the pilice officer .. can you see that surviuval instincs are essential ?

Naniu