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777
20th December 2014, 15:01
There are plenty of Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit fans on TOT who may find this article fascinating. Have you ever read the books or watched the films and been so deeply moved somewhere deep inside inexplicably? Well, this is probably for good reason. The following article looks at the mythology behind Tolkiens' work The Silmarillion, which is one of two books that precede The Hobbit and provide the basis for all that follows. Have you ever wondered, who or what exactly Sauron is? Find out here!

http://www.byrdthistledown.com/Biblical_Parallels_to_The_Silmarillion.htm

This book is definitely heading into my hands in the immediate future. Enjoy!

YxgsxaFWWHQ

modwiz
28th December 2014, 06:23
I never saw this thread before this. 8 days and this is the first post. LOL. I hear echoes.......and crickets. I'll give this vid a listen. I downloaded it a few days ago and forgot to view it. As usual, I should have something to say.:)

Sooz
28th December 2014, 06:35
I agree, I looked at the date and couldn't figure out why I haven't seen it before. Weird!

modwiz
28th December 2014, 06:37
That was fun and concise. Very well done. I like that the imagery used for the Istari Luin (Q Elvish;Blue Wizards), was the wise men or Magi. The Magi being of the branch of Iranian plateau based Mystery Schools and religion. Zoroastrianism whose bad diety is named Ahriman, which is cognate with Saruman, in an English dialect that drops the "S" at the beginning of a word. It is this coming together, with meaning, of the Tolkien and Sophianic Narratives that I find a living and timeless resonance. A connection to Creation Itself. Having fun doing it too.:)

norman
28th December 2014, 08:28
A quote from Sean Connery


"I read the book. I read the script. I saw the movie. I still don’t understand it."


I'm very much like him, regarding Tolkien.

Never could get what all the fuss was about. And never could get why a lot of people blur the difference between fact and fiction.

I suppose that invalidates me from making a post in this thread at all. I'll shut up now.

modwiz
28th December 2014, 09:01
Never could get what all the fuss was about. And never could get why a lot of people blur the difference between fact and fiction.


There is also blurring of the line between fiction and myth. Tolkien's "fiction" may be superior to our factual spirituality. Got the hands off god part right, IMO.

777
28th December 2014, 12:54
That was fun and concise. Very well done. I like that the imagery used for the Istari Luin (Q Elvish;Blue Wizards), was the wise men or Magi. The Magi being of the branch of Iranian plateau based Mystery Schools and religion. Zoroastrianism whose bad diety is named Ahriman, which is cognate with Saruman, in an English dialect that drops the "S" at the beginning of a word. It is this coming together, with meaning, of the Tolkien and Sophianic Narratives that I find a living and timeless resonance. A connection to Creation Itself. Having fun doing it too.:)

I did not know that about Ahriman and the omission of S, wow, just wow! You are absolutely right
Mod, it is fun isn't it. Not a rabbit hole I even knew existed despite previous suspicions relating to the OP. I realise now I'm barely even just inside the entrance, but that in itself fills me with awe and wonder as the twitchy backfoot pushes forth.

ronin
29th December 2014, 01:11
A quote from Sean Connery




I'm very much like him, regarding Tolkien.

Never could get what all the fuss was about. And never could get why a lot of people blur the difference between fact and fiction.

I suppose that invalidates me from making a post in this thread at all. I'll shut up now.

Tolkein wrote his work during a time of great difficulties,of war,supression and a world in conflict.
he took what was actually happening in the world and created his books of art.
good vs evil,different factions and made them into works of fiction.
if you look at the map of middle earth what does it resemble?

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag233/ronin123451/Fenlon_NW_ME_zpsb2bcc850.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/ronin123451/media/Fenlon_NW_ME_zpsb2bcc850.jpg.html)
northwest uk
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag233/ronin123451/north-west-map_zpsd9aa159e.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/ronin123451/media/north-west-map_zpsd9aa159e.png.html)

it was the imagination of a world in happening that Tolkein used to fictionalize the truth within his books.

Seikou-Kishi
29th December 2014, 03:48
I would take Tolkien as a conduit of divine revelaton over the ignorant nutjobs who wrote the bible any day. Sauron doesn't create, he only manipulates. Power, particularly over others, is a temptation that leads sooner or later to a place the wise desire to avoid. Look at Boromir, who seeks and eventually craves the ring to defend others. He doesn't see the insidious draw it has and how it pulls apart any noble motive he originally had, but the wise like Gandalf and Galadriel realise this dynamic and know where the path paved with good intentions leads. In this way, we can compare also Gandalf with Saruman; though one is ostensibly the head of his order, the embodiment of Maiar in Middle Earth, and regarded as the wisest of the wise ones, it is Gandalf and not Saruman who delivers: high rank and the popular acclaim of wisdom are not wisdom — all bishops hear well.

And again who show themselves so sturdy? Though the elves show greater resistance to the ring's draw, and Tom Bombadil is curiously immune, it is the tiny and otherwise insignificant hobbits who hold and deliver the ring — parochial little shirefolk afraid of everything from boats to business.

The Ainulindalė (Music of the Ainur) is said to be the song of creation and Melkor/Morgoth's deviation the introduction of disharmony to that song. Eru Iluvatar created both the Ainur (the Valar and Maiar) and the races of elves and men. The other races (such as dwarves and plants and animals) were either created by the Valar after the pattern of Eru Iluvatar, or else created against this pattern and then "adopted", so to speak, by Eru Iluvatar (this is the case of the Dwarves).

The difference is in the perversions of Melkor and Sauron. Sauron is a being like Gandalf (a Maia), while Melkor is one of the Valar, but as their nature is in opposition to the Ainulindalė, what they "create", while appearing to a hobbit's eye to be a creature of a basic likeness to men and elves, is not at all; their seeming will is a simulation of will as their life is a simulation of life. When an orc kills, it is unmoved because to an orc there is nothing but the body and so their minds can't encompass the departure of a soul. There is nothing but the mechanics of the fact — and from all this, their obsession with killing (to find something invisible to them) and their hatred of "real" people.

All of this has parallels in the gnostic tradition. Melkor, though a Vala, is not on a par with the Aeons (as I might say the other Valar are) for though Sophia created the demiurge the way Melkor perverted the Maia Mairon into Sauron, Sophia herself was not malicious (Mairon's becoming Sauron is a reflection of Melkor's becoming Morgoth). However, Sauron has great parallels in the demiurge, as do the races of that faction have parallels in the greys and reptilians. The Ainulindalė itself speaks of vibration and energy — it can't be a mundane song the Ainur were singing before the air even existed.

The idea of Eru Iluvatar being a "hands off god" is an appealing one; if it does anything at all, it exudes the song. It emanates. It is not a being for direct divine intervention, but rather the "children of Iluvatar", being of Eru Iluvatar, are free will manifestations of divine intervention. That is part of the Ainulindalė.

All of Tolkien's work stands in stark contrast to his Roman Catholicism, which espouses a petty and belligerent god that is at best a neurotic micro-manager. A religion rather more of Sauron than anything. I have to agree with Modwiz that there is more spiritually relevant information to be found in Tolkien's work than in all the bible. I don't care who begat Boaz and whom Boaz begat.

Calabash
29th December 2014, 17:05
Tolkein wrote his work during a time of great difficulties,of war,supression and a world in conflict.
he took what was actually happening in the world and created his books of art.
good vs evil,different factions and made them into works of fiction.
if you look at the map of middle earth what does it resemble?

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag233/ronin123451/Fenlon_NW_ME_zpsb2bcc850.jpg (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/ronin123451/media/Fenlon_NW_ME_zpsb2bcc850.jpg.html)
northwest uk
http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag233/ronin123451/north-west-map_zpsd9aa159e.png (http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/ronin123451/media/north-west-map_zpsd9aa159e.png.html)

it was the imagination of a world in happening that Tolkein used to fictionalize the truth within his books.

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33500000/The-Beatles-the-beatles-33526367-500-492.jpg
Oh look - it's Sam, Pippin, Merry and Ringo - I mean Frodo