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Sooz
28th November 2014, 00:52
After watching the Kinsey Syndrome video (which blew the top of my head off), here is another excellent article and video that connects the dots. The blatant manipulation of programming kids through TV and the younger and younger sexualisation over the generations. :mad:

Reversing Disneys Black Magic Sex Spells. Click on the link below for the written article.

http://www.zengardner.com/reversing-disneys-black-magic-sex-spells/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwUwchCeeI4

norman
28th November 2014, 01:45
The mentality that goes with deliberately trashing the human race is the one that explains all this stuff best.

It's like what happened under the NAZI scientism in the 30s/40s (WW2). They had camps full of subjects that were never going anywhere other than a large mass grave.

The "scientists" seized on the opportunity to do EXPERIMENTS !

No one was going to object or even bother to check on what they were up to, that is, until the allies arrived in Berlin.

A planet full of waste product, that's what they see us as, isn't worth fretting about if they think they can do a lot of beneficial research on us while we are exterminated.

Sooz
28th November 2014, 05:42
Quite right Norman, and nothing has changed.

Under 'Operation Paperclip', they just bussed in all the top Nazi scientists to America after the war and just continued and still continue their experiments.

777
28th November 2014, 11:48
I won't post the videos on here since they are obscene and disturbing but simply type into youtube "Disney Sexual drawings" and you will be appalled, saddened and probably not in the least bit surprised at how much of the original animated work is based upon a starting point of drawing a male or female sexual organ and then adding from there. We know that sex sells and that techniques like this are interwoven into adverts aimed at adults and have been since day dot. But to aim them at children speaks volumes for the perpetrators that are complicit in the creation of these cartoons.

Sooz
28th November 2014, 12:06
I won't post the videos on here since they are obscene and disturbing but simply type into youtube "Disney Sexual drawings" and you will be appalled, saddened and probably not in the least bit surprised at how much of the original animated work is based upon a starting point of drawing a male or female sexual organ and then adding from there. We know that sex sells and that techniques like this are interwoven into adverts aimed at adults and have been since day dot. But to aim them at children speaks volumes for the perpetrators that are complicit in the creation of these cartoons.

I know Ben. I've seen it before. And thanks for drawing everyones attention to it.

We must remember it is not just us members here, but at any one time, there are 100 guests here who we can inform.

I had a bit of a lightbulb moment today. I remembered when I first started work in the Advertising industry when I was in my early 20's, 30 years ago - I read a book on subliminal advertising.

I could hardly believe it was true. 30 years later, here I am now, trying valiantly to make up for my idiocy.:fpalm:

Calabash
28th November 2014, 12:12
Very disturbing video Sooz - and when you consider that a couple of hundred years ago it was considered "fast" to show an ankle or a shoulder, then you can see how much we've gone on the slide . . . . selling thongs for little girls of 5 and 6 is a crime imo but there is only a market because of us, the public.

On a related matter, when my children were young I used to dress them in Ladybird fashions. To me they looked much the same as all the other kids fashions but they were cheaper. I was told only recently that they - and others who wore cheaper clothes - were looked down on by the other kids who wore adidas and moschino. The fact that the other parents bought them on "tick" didn't seem to matter. So imo it all boils down to MARKETING. It's marketing/branding that makes the fashions "sexy". For instance, if you put a pair of platform boots on a kid in the 1950's, everyone would assume they had two clubbed feet. If you put today's tousled gell hairstyle on someone in the fifties, everyone would assume they were a scruffy bugger who didn't brush their hair . . . It's matching the fashion with sex that's the problem, but what else sells besides sex?

Actually, in today's climate, Health/healthy lifestyle might just be able to do it . . . .

Sooz
28th November 2014, 12:19
I think it might be appropriate to put this Joni Mitchell song in here....

Sex Kills...

Listen to the lyrics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAjL6bvDskc

norman
28th November 2014, 13:25
I build binaural sound recording rigs. One of the components I use for each is a plain black lycra boob-tube in the smallest possible size.

I'm sure the ebay seller I get them from must think I have a harem of 8-12 year old girls......

I DO wonder who actually wears such small boob tubes.

GCS1103
28th November 2014, 18:35
Sooz- I was absolutely amazed watching the video you posted. By putting together an entire medley of this material, it hits home that there is truly a perversion in our society. As time has gone on, we've gotten bombarded with more and more outrageous behavior, so that eventually we will accept anything we see, as normal.
Thanks for the post....I have forwarded the Youtube video to a lot of family and friends.

Ria
28th November 2014, 23:37
I DO wonder who actually wears such small boob tubes.

Don't think about it. :shocked: ............put you mind at ease :meditating:

Disney has brought out Stone Henge, it's very troubleling to think what they are going to do with it.

I don't know how you can sell a national treasure and get away with it.


It is as bazar to me to buy a piece of land on the moon, how dose a realtor decide they can do that.

I think I'm going to pick out a couple of stars tonight, deside how I'm going to divide them up, then plonk a for sale sign up.
I will generously give TOTs a good discount. :hmm:


Here is a partial view of it :cloud: heart colours predominate on this little oasis. :hummesmiley:together we can create any thing,:magic:,

sandy
28th November 2014, 23:52
The subliminal messages are just astounding when they are pointed out and muc to my chagrin I have purchased those Brat dolls for nieces, thinking that is what they play with now a days. I think sometimes not watching any TV or stay updated on movies etc. can leave one in the dark as far as watching the trend become more and more sexualized, younger and younger.

Gosh it is hard to stay on top of all the social engineering and mind control entrainment..........but we must and especially so, for the youth who are being led more and more down a path to HELL!!

Calabash your examples of what the 50's would have said and done with the styles today made me laugh, so thanks for bringing some humour into this dark, foreboding research and yes enlightenment.

I will be emailing this video to those Mom's who I have purchased Brat dolls for in the past. :vom:

Pris
7th December 2014, 22:22
We are living in a sick and perverted culture deliberately invented by the Cabal to undermine the masses. It is not 'our culture'. We've been brainwashed to accept it as our own. This has got to stop.

Shezbeth
8th December 2014, 00:17
This video blew me away. I grew up in the '80s where these agendas were well in play, but not advanced to the level they are now.

As I stopped watching actual T.V. about 9 years ago (I still do Netflix, etc. on occasion), I was blissfully unaware of the degree of degradation that is foisted upon children. THAT (what is shown in the vid) is unconscionable. Even Animaniacs - one of my all-time favorite cartoons as a kid, and one that actually teaches kids stuff - has an observable degree of programming (Hello Nurse anyone, or that mink character?).

Sooz
8th December 2014, 01:03
Pretty shocking isn't it?

Have you watched the Kinsey Syndrome vid Shezbeth? It's rather long but well worth the time imo.

That one shocked me more than this one and that's saying something...:mad:

Shezbeth
8th December 2014, 02:24
Yeah,... I watched up until 33:33, and while I recognize some of the validity of the presentation, I also recognize a slew of bias, preconception, and agenda-based propaganda. There are vastly more agendas being presented in the video than meet the eye or is overtly indicated.

Its not all bad mind you, but as a credible or authoritative presentation I find it most wanting. And, where it is viable, I have to exclaim "duh". That Kinsey was allowed a foolishly significant position in contemporary law making (not directly but implicitly) is something I studied extensively and independently (I was a psych major for about a year and a half before getting bored with it). I find - especially given further research into American/World history - that this is 'more of the same' and symptomatic of a greater perversion. Simply, this was not the first step in the degradation of society, and trying to pin the blame on Kinsey is misdirected.

Furthermore, the emphasis on judeo-christian ideology is palpable and disgusting. One would be led to conclude that judeo-christianity was faultless, if not for (in this viewer's awareness) the effects, practices, and (oh yes) traditions of the catholic church. Simply, there's a whole lot of the pot calling the kettle black, a whole lot of individuals who would otherwise be obscure dancing for the camera, and a whole lot of individuals or groups pushing agendas. I don't contest that Kinsey played a role in the perversion of society by attempting to normalize otherwise abnormal behaviors and predispositions, but I find that this video erroneously attempts to foist the blame entirely on him with very little mention of the predisposition of his backers (which IMO is where the fault really begins, or at least where it transitions further upward).

I appreciate the mention and the suggestion, but I was wholly disappointed with this video. The hyper-sexualization video had very obvious and axiomatic conclusions and evidence, while this one was more conjectural, and wrought of incomplete analysis.

Sooz
8th December 2014, 05:33
Very perspicacious* of you. And an interesting, scholarly perspective.

Remind me never to get into a debate with you, lol...you would wipe the floor with me.:blsh:

(*Hope I spelt that right. I've always remembered that word, because a director of a large organisation once said that about me when I was in my 20's and just starting out on the corporate ladder. I went scurrying home to look up what the hell it meant.)

Sooz:tiphat:

Edit: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/perspicacious

norman
8th December 2014, 05:47
Hi Shez', you're not Russel Brand going incognito, are you?

Maan, you sure do have the gift of highly accessible neuronal activity and a pure ballet of expression.

Sooz
8th December 2014, 06:03
Hi Shez', you're not Russel Brand going incognito, are you?

Maan, you sure do have the gift of highly accessible neuronal activity and a pure ballet of expression.

Quite the poet yourself Norman. 'Pure ballet of expression', I like that, it conjours up all sorts of visual images. ****, have I spelt conjours wrong? Yep, got a wiggly, red line underneath. Oh well, can't be arsed, lol.

Time for dinner.:)

I love you guys.

1inMany
8th December 2014, 12:40
This thread has gotten me to thinking. (Good job, sooz, as I'm sure that's the point haha.) My 23 year old daughter thinks she was somehow deprived because I didn't allow her to watch Disney movies when she was young. She watched them, much to my chagrin, at friends' houses on occasion. But at my house? No Snow White, Cinderella, and only begrudgingly Beauty and the Beast. Not because they were overly sexual, but because the parents were portrayed as incompetent boobs. And usually it was only one parent.

First and foremost, I didn't want my girls to grow up waiting for a Prince to save them. Take charge of your own lives, I told them. So when Belle showed herself on the scene, I liked that a girl with a brain and some ambition was the heroine, not desiring the handsome Prince in the least. Because he was a buffoon. But...still I had trouble with the one parent she had. Absent-minded inventor, but at least he had a good heart.

Anyway, I had not thought about the sexual messages that are slid in under the radar until now. Here is a song that you either hate or you love. Probably most people around here hate this, but to tell you a secret that I might regret, I find it expresses exactly where I am in my own journey and have been known to sing it at the top of my lungs while putting around the house. As inspiration when I'm falling down, and as reinforcement when I'm on the upswing. Here is the problem, though. The words alone do not seem to hide anything sexual, while there is something in this video made me drop my jaw. At the 3:15 mark, this young girl (if she were real) is in danger of dislocating a hip. And what does this say? To be confident in who you are does equate to a better sense of self value. However, I would never advocate telling a little girl that if she is confident, this is the result. This is like...twerking, tamed for a younger audience. While I appreciate that she doesn't engage in that new fad, the whole message was polluted when someone snuck this in. I know, they knew what they were doing. I know. But I say "snuck" it in because how many people even noticed this? And certainly even fewer were offended by it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

I don't have much time for videos, but looking at the linked article I was disappointed. Good information, but so slanted. I will continue to do what I do, share what I share, but leave out the Illuminati/cabal/religion references for most of my "audience."

Thanks again, sooz.

777
8th December 2014, 13:03
That is a crystal clear Beyonce strut right there is it not 1inmany??!!

Good catch, that had eluded me also hitherto. Also Sandy hinted at us "dropping our guard" where subliminals are concerned. Although that was not the phrase used that was what I assumed! It really is vital that we stay on top of this since to drop our guard and just accept it as "how things are" is complicit in the success of their underhand tactics. Proportionally incremental awareness has to be a daily responsibility at the very least?

Ria
8th December 2014, 15:42
Default Kevin Annett: Common law Sheriffs, Oathkeepers will arrest pedo Pope during Sept 2015 USA visit

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At3VBdT1WlY


"Published on 7 Dec 2014
Follow www.NewsInsideOut.com: You can access background and links while watching this interview here. Thank you.
Common law Sheriffs will arrest pedo Pope during Sept. 2015 USA visit.
http://newsinsideout.com/2014/12/kev...015-usa-visit/
during Sept. 2015 USA visit
Kevin Annett: ITCCS Common law Sheriffs, Oathkeepers will arrest convicted child trafficking Pope Bergoglio during Sept. 2015 USA visit

By Alfred Lambremont Webre
NewsInsideOut.com

VANCOUVER, BC – Kevin Annett, North American field secretary for the International Tribunal for Crimes of Church and State, stated in a NewsInsideOut.com interview that ITCCS Common law Sheriffs as well as Oathkeepers will arrest Pope Jorge Bergoglio if he attempts to come to Philadelphia to address the Eighth World Meeting of Families during Sept 22-27, 2015."

Pris
8th December 2014, 21:47
This thread has gotten me to thinking. (Good job, sooz, as I'm sure that's the point haha.) My 23 year old daughter thinks she was somehow deprived because I didn't allow her to watch Disney movies when she was young. She watched them, much to my chagrin, at friends' houses on occasion. But at my house? No Snow White, Cinderella, and only begrudgingly Beauty and the Beast. Not because they were overly sexual, but because the parents were portrayed as incompetent boobs. And usually it was only one parent.

First and foremost, I didn't want my girls to grow up waiting for a Prince to save them. Take charge of your own lives, I told them. So when Belle showed herself on the scene, I liked that a girl with a brain and some ambition was the heroine, not desiring the handsome Prince in the least. Because he was a buffoon. But...still I had trouble with the one parent she had. Absent-minded inventor, but at least he had a good heart.

Anyway, I had not thought about the sexual messages that are slid in under the radar until now. Here is a song that you either hate or you love. Probably most people around here hate this, but to tell you a secret that I might regret, I find it expresses exactly where I am in my own journey and have been known to sing it at the top of my lungs while putting around the house. As inspiration when I'm falling down, and as reinforcement when I'm on the upswing. Here is the problem, though. The words alone do not seem to hide anything sexual, while there is something in this video made me drop my jaw. At the 3:15 mark, this young girl (if she were real) is in danger of dislocating a hip. And what does this say? To be confident in who you are does equate to a better sense of self value. However, I would never advocate telling a little girl that if she is confident, this is the result. This is like...twerking, tamed for a younger audience. While I appreciate that she doesn't engage in that new fad, the whole message was polluted when someone snuck this in. I know, they knew what they were doing. I know. But I say "snuck" it in because how many people even noticed this? And certainly even fewer were offended by it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

I don't have much time for videos, but looking at the linked article I was disappointed. Good information, but so slanted. I will continue to do what I do, share what I share, but leave out the Illuminati/cabal/religion references for most of my "audience."

Thanks again, sooz.

Hello 1inmany, gosh, I love yah! :) A young friend of mine made me watch this because he thought it was great, too hehe! Poor bugger... I gave it to him.

My very first impression of this was 'unimpressed'. I don't like the visuals or the character. The song/voice bellowing bothers me (I can't stand Celine Dion either ;P)... Overall, it's 'cute' and everything... and that's just it. It's way too cute... cute message. But, then there's that amazingly form-fitting dress (did her boobs get bigger?!), walk, exposed shoulders and leg and that wiggle to her hips -- that's quite something, huh? (Reminded me of Jessica Rabbit.) Yes... sexualization... That's supposed to represent a young, strong, female (role-model) 'coming into her own'? There's probably some other message hidden away in the snow flake pattern on the ground (Star of David...hexagon at the centre... hex -- evil spell maybe -- after all, she conjured the whole thing up)... the spires (phallic objects as they rise up perhaps?)... anywhooo...:whstl:

Please, don't mind me, 1inmany! I could be entirely off base with this... or not lol... I can see why the song inspires you though (heey, just realized it's full of spires...! Inspires, get it? ;))

1inMany
8th December 2014, 22:19
Haha, Pris. I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it this morning trying to post it. Actually, I was looking for geometry in the ice. I'm not the one who would see that, but I did wonder. The hip swinging she has going on isn't all that big of a deal. It isn't like she is barely dressed or anything. It just took me aback when I first saw it. Is that really necessary? That's what I wondered.

When my girls were little and they asked to watch questionable shows on TV (and thank goodness there was no internet at home or netflix or anything), I asked why that was necessary. I mean, with the choices available, why is it necessary to allow a child to be exposed to graphic and gory violence so young...or something that incites terror...or something with adult content. (What comes to mind is the time my brother allowed his two year old daughter to watch Poltergeist.)

I guess what is sad, to me, is that all of these messages get through. They are everywhere, these underlying themes. Back to topic, here is a top 10 list of Subliminal Messages in Disney movies. The Little Mermaid cover? I used to have that vhs tape, and that artist's depiction was no accident.

http://www.ultimatetop10s.com/top-10-subliminal-messages-in-disney-animations/

Pris
8th December 2014, 22:51
Haha, Pris. I was thinking the same thing when I was watching it this morning trying to post it. Actually, I was looking for geometry in the ice. I'm not the one who would see that, but I did wonder. The hip swinging she has going on isn't all that big of a deal. It isn't like she is barely dressed or anything. It just took me aback when I first saw it. Is that really necessary? That's what I wondered.

When my girls were little and they asked to watch questionable shows on TV (and thank goodness there was no internet at home or netflix or anything), I asked why that was necessary. I mean, with the choices available, why is it necessary to allow a child to be exposed to graphic and gory violence so young...or something that incites terror...or something with adult content. (What comes to mind is the time my brother allowed his two year old daughter to watch Poltergeist.)

I guess what is sad, to me, is that all of these messages get through. They are everywhere, these underlying themes. Back to topic, here is a top 10 list of Subliminal Messages in Disney movies. The Little Mermaid cover? I used to have that vhs tape, and that artist's depiction was no accident.

http://www.ultimatetop10s.com/top-10-subliminal-messages-in-disney-animations/


I think it's impossible to raise kids these days without them getting 'infected' by all the perversion out there. :(

Interesting... that top 10 list. You know what struck me hardest about that one? Right at the beginning when they 'write if all off' as 'oh, it's just those animators sneaking something in.' Wow. (And, what does it say about animators? They're a bunch of perverts?! I don't think so.) What a convenient way to redirect blame. Admit to it, but point the fingers at... those guys. That makes it okay. :p

My thinking on that? Those subliminal messages are entirely planned in advance and planted into the cartoons/animations by the instruction of the people who control 'Hollywood'. It's their modus operandi. They are masters of their craft which is to subvert humanity.

1inMany
8th December 2014, 22:54
Those subliminal messages are entirely planned in advance and planted into the cartoons by the instruction of the people who control 'Hollywood'. It's their modus operandi. They are masters of their craft which is to subvert humanity.

Absolutely.

Shezbeth
8th December 2014, 22:55
:hilarious:

I am laughing for many reasons. The first is the suggestion that I'm Russel Brand incognito. I suppose being that this is a forum I can't prove that I'm not, even if I supplied pictures (and pictures are coming, I'm just waiting for the lake to freeze over and then a good snowfall after that ^_~,... not that I've put any thought into it or anything,... magic circles on a frozen lake bitches!). You'll just have to take my word for it though, but thanks for the suggestion. I find that it was both a complimentary comparison, and most enjoyable.


Here is a song that you either hate or you love.

Would it surprise you if I were to say I have done the same,... the listening/singing and such? There was a period a few months ago (did anyone catch the Soulplayorb duel in the slums? That sonofabitch got me hooked on that song!) where I would put on a youtube 2-hour repeat of the song while doing the dishes,... but shhhhh, don't tell nobody.

The song is catchy, and there are elements to the video that are actually encouraging. Personally, it resonates with some of the emotions and sentiment I experienced/expressed in casting off all my old 'friends', family, and other unhealthy relationships and moved to my current, remote location. The brightening on the character's face in particular does a good job of depicting a liberated disposition and mindset after years of repression, as do the lyrics; that I identify with.

But, I'm also glad that you noticed the swagger, as when I saw that I wondered to myself how many young girls were going to emulate it,... and this was before watching the hyper-sex video. Her body language toward the end is bordering on the typification of female objectification, and the 'sultry' eyes are not something one wants young girls to identify with and emulate (at least I wouldn't). And yes Pris, her boobs did get bigger. One could suggest that her previous dress was a restrictive, corset-type which would fit with the Queen identity (and the metaphorical dynamic), and given that we're to assume that the 'new' dress is composed of latticed ice crystals (all but insubstantial), it stands to reason that she's more in an un-restrictive nighty-type garment,... but yes her boobs got bigger.

Sidenote, my sworn's best friend lives next door with two little blond girls who absolutely idolize that character. I don't know whether to throw salt (share the Disney sexification video) or just let it be.


What a convenient way to redirect blame. Admit to it, but point the fingers at... those guys. That makes it okay.

Yeah. For one, it's not like no one noticed during production, and for two "Oh, its just some silly prank". Really.

I just had a thought,... what if they were making their subliminals too small (via digital animation) for the consciousness to perceive, and yet up to the same old tricks? There could be 'sex' messages all throughout the frosty 'pingledies',.... Food for thought,....

P.S. In this case - and others to come - when I say 'bitches', what I mean is "Individuals who I feel an extant and/or growing familiarity to/with and in whom I feel comfortable being increasingly irreverent towards/with". It's not an insult, its actually a term of endearment. If preferred, I can knock it off.

modwiz
8th December 2014, 23:08
:hilarious:

I am laughing for many reasons. The first is the suggestion that I'm Russel Brand incognito.

I have watched RB in his trews and two of his stand-up acts. I like him enough. That said, his use of language bears no resemblance to yours other than a good command of the English language and a playful sense with it.

Pris
8th December 2014, 23:24
... but yes her boobs got bigger.

Freakin' yeah!!


Sidenote, my sworn's best friend lives next door with two little blond girls who absolutely idolize that character. I don't know whether to throw salt (share the Disney sexification video) or just let it be.

Throw salt.

I recently found out that my friend's birthday has been designated 'National Toilet Day'. I couldn't stop myself... I had to tell her... on her birthday. (Yes, she's still my friend. She appreciates my droll sense of humour. ;))

Of course, this subject isn't funny. The more people that wake up, the better.



Yeah. For one, it's not like no one noticed during production, and for two "Oh, its just some silly prank". Really.

"Hey... we'll blame the animators! Bunch of brainless twits -- they'll buy anything we sell them."

1inMany
8th December 2014, 23:30
:hilarious:
...
(magic circles on a frozen lake bitches!).

No need to explain here, I gotchu. (Slang at my house.) :cool:


Would it surprise you if I were to say I have done the same,... the listening/singing and such? There was a period a few months ago (did anyone catch the Soulplayorb duel in the slums? That sonofabitch got me hooked on that song!) where I would put on a youtube 2-hour repeat of the song while doing the dishes,... but shhhhh, don't tell nobody.

Why yes, actually, yes it does. :h5:

Shezbeth
8th December 2014, 23:40
Why yes, actually, yes it does. :h5:

:h5:

It made for quite an interesting incident at my work though! It's a 'big, stoic, and manly lumber-mill' BTW.

They've got a stereo setup to an ipod/iphone dock, so the crew can listen to music. So the guy (the father of the aforementioned next door children) who is at the docking station had that song on his playlist (he's a bear, but he loves his kids)! When it came on, he immediately cranked it down as low as he could, but its a pretty beefy sound system and I have really precise hearing (and I've listened to the song on repeat for approximately 6-8 collective hours). I'm sure no one else heard/recognized it, but I made sure he knew "I know what was playing from your playlist, but I won't say nothin'" (but without revealing that I've 'rocked out to it' in my own time,... that would be silly!). Xp

Pris
8th December 2014, 23:55
Would it surprise you if I were to say I have done the same,... the listening/singing and such? There was a period a few months ago (did anyone catch the Soulplayorb duel in the slums? That sonofabitch got me hooked on that song!) where I would put on a youtube 2-hour repeat of the song while doing the dishes,... but shhhhh, don't tell nobody.

Why yes, actually, yes it does. :h5:


I've done this with certain songs, too. Also, not long ago I found an old video of an Alice Cooper TV special and watched it daily for several months...

I know... there's something not quite right with me. ;)

Seikou-Kishi
9th December 2014, 01:13
I love that song, 1inMany. Actually, I have it in four different languages (English, French, Japanese and Hebrew) as well as a "gender bending" version some fan made and released on youtube. I always loved the Snow Queen. The redemptive power of love breaking through the permafrost of somebody sealed shut... It's a good story :-) (I haven't seen Frozen though lol, just the song haha).

When it comes to the sexualisation of children... Imagine you're in a foreign country and you don't speak the language. A car comes careering out of nowhere and mows you down. As you lay on the verge of unconsciousness, a stranger comes and kneels by your side, holding your hand. He takes out a mobile phone and has a short exchange, then puts his phone away and speaks to you. His voice is soothing but you don't understand the words.

You assume he phoned for an ambulance and was comforting you while you waited for it to arrive. Milk of human kindness and all that. Actually, he was phoning his dealer to say he'd be able to pay his drug bill. He held your hand soothing you waiting for you to lose consciousness so he could pilfer your unconscious body of all your valuables.

The point is, it doesn't matter what somebody is saying if they say it in a language you don't understand. What matters far more is the tone. If Disney hides sexual messages in their films, it really doesn't matter because children are oblivious. It's not a language they speak. The sexualisation of children may or may not be Disney's goal, but it won't work either way.

Pris
9th December 2014, 01:31
I love that song, 1inMany. Actually, I have it in four different languages (English, French, Japanese and Hebrew) as well as a "gender bending" version some fan made and released on youtube. I always loved the Snow Queen. The redemptive power of love breaking through the permafrost of somebody sealed shut... It's a good story :-) (I haven't seen Frozen though lol, just the song haha).

When it comes to the sexualisation of children... Imagine you're in a foreign country and you don't speak the language. A car comes careering out of nowhere and mows you down. As you lay on the verge of unconsciousness, a stranger comes and kneels by your side, holding your hand. He takes out a mobile phone and has a short exchange, then puts his phone away and speaks to you. His voice is soothing but you don't understand the words.

You assume he phoned for an ambulance and was comforting you while you waited for it to arrive. Milk of human kindness and all that. Actually, he was phoning his dealer to say he'd be able to pay his drug bill. He held your hand soothing you waiting for you to lose consciousness so he could pilfer your unconscious body of all your valuables.

The point is, it doesn't matter what somebody is saying if they say it in a language you don't understand. What matters far more is the tone. If Disney hides sexual messages in their films, it really doesn't matter because children are oblivious. It's not a language they speak. The sexualisation of children may or may not be Disney's goal, but it won't work either way.

Nice try, Seikou-Kishi... but, I don't buy it. ;) It's all supposed to get into the subconscious. Symbolism and imagery... that's how to speak to the subconscious mind. The younger you are... the easier it can take root. If you don't think it's affecting children... you're missing something think I.

Seikou-Kishi
9th December 2014, 02:42
Nice try, Seikou-Kishi... but, I don't buy it. ;)

You don't have to ;-)

When I was younger, I saw a news article about a farmer who found it impossible to control his imported cattle. They just wouldn't follow any of his commands. He brought in a farmhand who not only spoke French, but spoke the dialect and in the accent of the region from which the cows had been exported. The cows responded perfectly to the farmhand's instructions (to move from one location to another, etc.)

The farmer's orders were perfectly sensible. Indeed, the orders which failed when the farmer gave them were the same orders that succeeded when the farmhand gave them. The difference was the cows could accept the farmhand's input and not the farmer's. But for an ability to assign meaning, whether to a graphic symbol or a verbal symbol, any message encoded in any format will be undeciphered.

The meanings also have to have a meaning common to both the speaker and the listener. This is why morse code only works if both the transmitter and the receiver know what the sequences of dots and dashes mean. During the nuclear disaster at Fukushima Daiichi, many childish people laughed at the name "Fukushima" — even some newsreaders said the name awkwardly. Why? Well they all likened it to the word "f*ck". The element actually means, perhaps somewhat ironically, "luck/blessing/good fortune". If you play a song in a language the listener doesn't understand, they hear all sorts of words that aren't in the song because their mind is searching for meaning but doesn't have the key to that meaning.

Any implicit reference to sex is therefore beyond the interpretation of one who doesn't know what sex is. It goes "all over their heads".

You say "it's all supposed..." but this is a vague and ill-defined appeal to the popularity of an idea rather than a support for the accuracy of an idea. It's unfortunately no better than an appeal to "the omniscient they", a group of people nobody knows who can be relied upon to postulate and then fail to substantiate any claim the speaker wishes to claim. "They say this" and "they say that". "You know, they say the king is quite mad..."

None of this constitutes evidence in favour of a proposition, it is merely the proposition.

It is also guilty of the ploy of the "deletion of agency" by use of the passive voice. It is an attempt at universality. "It is supposed..." well by whom? If you said "I suppose..." Your statement would lose any appearance of credibility it might have; you're quite free to suppose to your heart's content, but when you want to make a claim you need evidence to support your claim, not a restatement of the original supposition.

It doesn't matter what is supposed, or by whom; what matters is what is and what is demonstrable.

(Also, I think this is the first time we've interacted since you came here. I don't know your temperament and you probably don't know mine. Please don't interpret my forthrightness as a lack of amicability; I very much prefer when people can disagree without a presumption of hostility)

Pris
9th December 2014, 03:43
Any implicit reference to sex is therefore beyond the interpretation of one who doesn't know what sex is. It goes "all over their heads".

As we can see, this isn't the case. It's a fact that younger and younger children are 'getting it'. That's what the video illustrates very well.


You say "it's all supposed..." but this is a vague and ill-defined appeal to the popularity of an idea rather than a support for the accuracy of an idea. It's unfortunately no better than an appeal to "the omniscient they", a group of people nobody knows who can be relied upon to postulate and then fail to substantiate any claim the speaker wishes to claim. "They say this" and "they say that". "You know, they say the king is quite mad..."

Yes, indeed! I will do my best to remember not to use the word 'suppose' around you when I'm attempting to make a point hehe. Got it! :)


"It is supposed..." well by whom? If you said "I suppose..." Your statement would lose any appearance of credibility it might have; you're quite free to suppose to your heart's content, but when you want to make a claim you need evidence to support your claim, not a restatement of the original supposition.

It doesn't matter what is supposed, or by whom; what matters is what is and what is demonstrable.

Okay... I think it was demonstrated in the video alone. There were plenty of examples. We can also see the sexualization of children and young people in our everyday lives. What are the results as they grow up? We've seen this as well -- a propensity towards promiscuity, prostitution, low self-esteem, obsession with the body image, eating disorders, and so on.

Besides, everyone ought to know by now that Disney is run by a bunch of psychos. Please don't require me to be specific lol... Another term for them is 'Cabal'.


(Also, I think this is the first time we've interacted since you came here. I don't know your temperament and you probably don't know mine. Please don't interpret my forthrightness as a lack of amicability; I very much prefer when people can disagree without a presumption of hostility)

Awesome. :)

lookbeyond
9th December 2014, 04:18
ill add a little re this topic of sexualisation of children from a parents perspective.We neither pushed nor prohibited Disney movies,i as a little girl also had the books.

We purchased Frozen as my youngest who was 10 at the time loved the story and music so much and we watched it many a friday night.Got to say we saw Elsa as someone who "overcame and conquered" and as my elder daughter noted- without being saved by a man.

When the song was at its most popular my then 14 year old showed the music clip to me and was playing it regularly, i noticed the overtly sexual way she (Elsa) "came into her own" however i also noticed this behaviour of the character went right over my teenage daughters head, all she was talking to me about were the strengths that she perceived Elsa was developing.

Society today does promote the oversexualisation of little girls, however do not underestimate the power of the parent in terms of role model and authoritarian.Neither of my daughters hav ever been permitted to or wanted to dress what i would call "inappropriately"for their ages- right thru from little girls to now almost teen and mid teen.They are modest and age appropriate in their dress sense and behaviour despite Disney/society/friends/advertising/etc, but then that is the way we hav brought them up.

I think my children are different tho from many others, they are empathetic individuals who see things many other children do not notice so maybe that assists them to not need to"fall in"and hav the need to just b one of the crowd, im grateful,lb

Seikou-Kishi
9th December 2014, 04:24
I tend to forget that Disney encompasses more than I remember of it. When I was young, Disney catered to children with things like the Lion King. But with things like Hannah Montana, I would say the target audience is older children/young teens and they certainly do know what sex is. I don't think something like the Lion King, even with "sex in the dust" would sexualise its target audience, but anything involving Miley Cyrus...

lookbeyond
9th December 2014, 04:47
Will say this SK, when Miley Cyrus was a young teen she presented a happy wholesome image in her tv series, she was a "typical American" teenager with all the woes that went with it but had a secret life of a pop star and she sang some great songs-The Ride-i think it was called comes to mind,my then preteen daughter liked her-so did i.However as Miley fell off the rails so to speak my daughter lost interest in her and now in our house she is off the radar.

The Lion King was a much loved movie at our house.

Pris
9th December 2014, 05:13
Here's 'The Evolution of Miley Cyrus'. I think they really meant to say 'Devolution'.

http://entertainment.time.com/2013/09/10/watch-the-evolution-of-miley-cyrus/

She's a product of Hollywood -- a product of her 'handlers'. This is exactly how she was 'meant' to turn out. First, grab the attention of children and young girls with a 'wholesome' role-model. Then, have this role-model 'grow up', turn the tables, and show what kind of behaviour is really expected from females in general.

Unfortunately for Miley Cyrus, she has to be one of the best examples of perversion yet.

Shezbeth
9th December 2014, 06:09
The over-sexualization is not exclusive to Disney either! As a regular and vociferous fan of anime and manga, I can attest to a prevalent sexualization brought about through these mediums as well.

Most series' involve all females except the 'deliberately unattractive', single female characters (by single I mean 1 per series, not 'available',... though that too) to be archetypal examples of this or that (the innocent girl, the brash and defiant trouble-maker, the calm but fearsome serious type, etc.). The depiction of school uniforms in particular depicts prostitute-esque attire that tends to push the envelope of revealing (as well as having no basis in reality), and even my favorite series' are guilty of adopting an appearance for their female characters which is well past the border of objectification, even when the females themselves serve as adequate role models in terms of philosophy, behavior, and disposition. Quite often the most 'innocent' storyline elements (someone being pushed over, tripping, etc.) results in overtly submissive and borderline erotic poses, even though contextually having nothing to do with sex or eroticism.

Plus, the sexualization is not exclusive to girls in this case, as many/most of the objectification is aimed at boys. True, there are series geared toward women, but there are far more aimed at boys and adolescents. There is even an entire type of genre (called "Harem") geared toward placing a single male protagonist amidst a representative of every type of archetype one can think of.

Sooz
9th December 2014, 06:14
I love all your respective opinions. In a way Mr Sushi, I understand your argument, but like Pris I don't buy it (and I know I don't have to, lol), but subliminal advertising is just that...subliminal. It gets to kids 'under the radar'. They don't consciously think about it but it's there.

From my perspective as a parent of a 16 year old young man and bear in mind I 'woke up' to things, when he was about 10 - I discussed with him, stuff about the media, TV 'programmes', i.e., programming the population with agendas. At the time he would just look at me like I was slightly crazy. But now? He hardly watches TV or does the 'X-Box video games stuff'. I like to think something got through.

For those of us in Oz, there is such a thing as 'schoolies week' on the Gold Coast. It is an absolute abomination. Google it, or 'start page it', should I say.

I was so relieved my son saying recently that he had no inclination to do schoolies week and that he'd prefer to be planting sugar cane and fixing the next door neighbour's harvester. I was so happy I nearly cried.:cry:

Not all kids are affected by our media manipulation and he watched all the Disney crap and TV when he was little.

Maybe, just maybe my awakening had something to do with it? Maybe just a little.:D

Sooz
9th December 2014, 06:54
There ya go, a taste of schoolies week on the Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia.

You can't tell me these kids have not been affected by media manipulation. And don't get me started on the violence.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social-media-exposes-the-very-worst-of-schoolies-week-on-the-gold-coast/story-fnjwnhzf-1227133961298

Here is a link to the violence a few weeks ago:

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2014/11/24/schoolies-week-marred-violence/

Pris
9th December 2014, 07:33
There ya go, a taste of schoolies week on the Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia.

You can't tell me these kids have not been affected by media manipulation. And don't get me started on the violence.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social-media-exposes-the-very-worst-of-schoolies-week-on-the-gold-coast/story-fnjwnhzf-1227133961298

Here is a link to the violence a few weeks ago:

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2014/11/24/schoolies-week-marred-violence/


Whoa... :(

We never had this. They're certainly less inhibited than I remember...

I imagine part of this behaviour is due to the fact that so much is being revealed in the world right now (how we've all been taken for a ride). It's like people need an excuse to go ballistic.

Sooz
9th December 2014, 08:00
Sorry Pris, I responded to your post, then my comp went berko....:pc: Never mind.

Lol...it's called the :Seffect: Or the great Oz firewall, who knows, but it always seems to happen to ME! :frantic::cracky::mad:

Shezbeth
9th December 2014, 11:49
Let me just throw this out there for a moment if memory (and the general idea) is accurate. While hyper-sexualization is agreeably a dysfunctional agenda/direction, what about holistic sexuality?

There have been cultures who may have been open and free with their sexuality even amongst adolescents. The Celts and May Day come to mind,....

Sooz
9th December 2014, 12:19
Let me just throw this out there for a moment if memory (and the general idea) is accurate. While hyper-sexualization is agreeably a dysfunctional agenda/direction, what about holistic sexuality?

There have been cultures who may have been open and free with their sexuality even amongst adolescents. The Celts and May Day come to mind,....

OK, go ahead, I have an open mind. Always open to hearing another point of view. And I'm sure you have a persuasive pov, take it away...

But bear in mind it's past midnight here in Oz, so if I don't hang around it's nothing personal. My eyelids are getting heavy...:yawn:

If I don't hang around, will catch up tomorrow after some well earned zeds....been working like a Trojan today in this heat.

1inMany
9th December 2014, 17:41
The point is, it doesn't matter what somebody is saying if they say it in a language you don't understand. What matters far more is the tone. If Disney hides sexual messages in their films, it really doesn't matter because children are oblivious. It's not a language they speak. The sexualisation of children may or may not be Disney's goal, but it won't work either way.

I see your point. Quite valid. I am thinking, though, that auditory and visual messages would be different. If I went to see a movie at a theater, and there was a picture of popcorn that was flashed on the movie screen from time to time, I might have a craving for popcorn by the end of the movie and not know why. If, however, the word popcorn was played randomly throughout the movie, and it was in a language I do not speak, I would likely not end up with a craving for popcorn. And these visual subliminals, if that is an actual term, work on children. I have seen, myself, little girls emulate the attire and behavior they see (whether it be on television, the big screen, or hell-even at home). So, it may be a gradual indoctrination, if one could call it that. I do not think the sexualization by Disney is solely to blame for the promiscuity (etc.) I see. America has so many problems as a society, as a culture, there is plenty of responsibility elsewhere.

I was also thinking about how teachers introduce concepts to students knowing full well they are not quite ready to learn and/or master the concept, solely because the it becomes familiar to the students whether they have any grasp of the concept or not. When the students are ready, it is no longer a "new" concept so it is easier to slide them into it. Desensitization, possibly? It starts with maybe a swing of the hips in Frozen, and goes downhill from there.

Sorry, sooz. Just some random thoughts. Which should surprise no one. Lol.

Pris
9th December 2014, 18:51
I see your point. Quite valid. I am thinking, though, that auditory and visual messages would be different. If I went to see a movie at a theater, and there was a picture of popcorn that was flashed on the movie screen from time to time, I might have a craving for popcorn by the end of the movie and not know why. If, however, the word popcorn was played randomly throughout the movie, and it was in a language I do not speak, I would likely not end up with a craving for popcorn. And these visual subliminals, if that is an actual term, work on children. I have seen, myself, little girls emulate the attire and behavior they see (whether it be on television, the big screen, or hell-even at home). So, it may be a gradual indoctrination, if one could call it that. I do not think the sexualization by Disney is solely to blame for the promiscuity (etc.) I see. America has so many problems as a society, as a culture, there is plenty of responsibility elsewhere.

I was also thinking about how teachers introduce concepts to students knowing full well they are not quite ready to learn and/or master the concept, solely because the it becomes familiar to the students whether they have any grasp of the concept or not. When the students are ready, it is no longer a "new" concept so it is easier to slide them into it. Desensitization, possibly? It starts with maybe a swing of the hips in Frozen, and goes downhill from there.

Sorry, sooz. Just some random thoughts. Which should surprise no one. Lol.


I very much agree with you!

Yes, of course it's not 'just' Disney. But, Disney IS a big one, so I wouldn't gloss over that one. It's actually not very hard to connect the dots, however, and see who's doing it all and who's behind it. There are not THAT many corporations/organizations (individuals/families) behind it all. In fact, there are literally a very small number that run basically everything.

This 'sexualization' problem runs parallel with our mainstream media, oil cartel, big pharma, educational system etc. Behind-the-scenes, it's the same people pulling the strings. Do they have an agenda? Yes.

Seikou-Kishi
9th December 2014, 22:55
Let me just throw this out there for a moment if memory (and the general idea) is accurate. While hyper-sexualization is agreeably a dysfunctional agenda/direction, what about holistic sexuality?

There have been cultures who may have been open and free with their sexuality even amongst adolescents. The Celts and May Day come to mind,....

I quite agree. We are living in cultures that not only push sex at every touch and turn, they also treat it like a dirty issue. one might conclude from this that the real theme they're peddling is the one the Catholic church peddled for centuries in Europe — nothing but shame

modwiz
9th December 2014, 22:57
I quite agree. We are living in cultures that not only push sex at every touch and turn, they also treat it like a dirty issue. one might conclude from this that the real theme they're peddling is the one the Catholic church peddled for centuries in Europe — nothing but shame

Cognitive dissonance.

Calabash
9th December 2014, 23:11
I very much agree with you!

Yes, of course it's not 'just' Disney. But, Disney IS a big one, so I wouldn't gloss over that one. It's actually not very hard to connect the dots, however, and see who's doing it all and who's behind it. There are not THAT many corporations/organizations (individuals/families) behind it all. In fact, there are literally a very small number that run basically everything.

This 'sexualization' problem runs parallel with our mainstream media, oil cartel, big pharma, educational system etc. Behind-the-scenes, it's the same people pulling the strings. Do they have an agenda? Yes.

Let's not forget how many kids have been molested at Disney by the workers.

Do you remember Pinnochio and Pleasure Island . . . . watch it here, knowing what you know now. Chilling isn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wfqqnhbLU

Shezbeth
10th December 2014, 02:16
OK, go ahead, I have an open mind. Always open to hearing another point of view. And I'm sure you have a persuasive pov, take it away...

I really can't even begin to speculate what you expect by this. I had made my point.

However, recently I felt inclined to add (and put it in response rather than edit it in like I am prone/want to): The hyper-sexualization of girls, boys, kids in general is due to the lack of sexualization on behalf of the parent(s).

Now before anyone attempts to jump my ass (in a bad way) for saying so, I'm referring inherently to the general disconnect between children and parents. The reason it appeals to kids to see displays of dis-empowered, incompetent, or otherwise ineffective parents is because there are those. Is it by design? Perhaps, (and by 'perhaps' I mean 'perhaps' there are exceptions to yes), but the 'devil' didn't make anyone do anything.

Admitting that the story/suggestion of the Celts and May Day might be inaccurate/fictional, but some accounts allege that the festival was concluded with intercourse. This was not wanton, indeed it was said to be quite responsible; aware of the benefits, the consequences, the intent/spirit,... but lovingly so as opposed to apprehensively so as indicated earlier.

Personally, I have a hard time identifying with a somewhat ancient culture and what they are alleged to have done, but I will say that parents who don't leave it to Disney (et al, implicitly or explicitly) to sexualize their children tend to be less worried about the issues of hyper-sexualization. I'm not at all trying to shift blame, so much as share it with every party that has a hand in the 'wrong'.

And when it comes to sexuality, having a hand in the 'wrong' is just,... nevermind.

Too crass?

modwiz
10th December 2014, 02:28
The blatant manipulation of programming kids through TV......


Who pays the cable bill for this sewage to seep into their homes? 'They' are taking control of/managing our children's environments because too many parents won't. Yes, there are very sick people out there and the children need protection from them. Who does this responsibility fall to?

Shezbeth
10th December 2014, 02:38
Who pays the cable bill for this sewage to seep into their homes? They are taking control of/managing our children's environments because too many parents won't. Yes, there are very sick people out there and the children need protection from them. Who does this responsibility fall to?

Booyah. Moreover, who is paying for their kids' internet access, Iphones, and all that jazz?

modwiz
10th December 2014, 02:45
Booyah. Moreover, who is paying for their kids' internet access, Iphones, and all that jazz?

This might be a cry for gubmint to step in do something. Like inviting a camel/skunk/wolverine into your tent.

Pris
10th December 2014, 04:39
I quite agree. We are living in cultures that not only push sex at every touch and turn, they also treat it like a dirty issue. one might conclude from this that the real theme they're peddling is the one the Catholic church peddled for centuries in Europe — nothing but shame

Nothing but shame... and guilt, guilt, guilt!

Shezbeth
10th December 2014, 11:46
This might be a cry for gubmint to step in do something. Like inviting a camel/skunk/wolverine into your tent.

Like hell it is! I'm saying parents need to do their job and be less willing/inclined to give into a child's wants and instead focus on providing for their needs.

Moreover, the very cognitive dissonance ought to be addressed; I'll illustrate.

Why is an interest and/or disposition of liking and/or being mindful of sexuality and sensuality relegated with the terms 'pervert/perverted' (related to perverse), 'dirty', etc.? From whence did that hit emerge and IMO, unto which should it be be doffed?

Pris
10th December 2014, 17:02
Like hell it is! I'm saying parents need to do their job and be less willing/inclined to give into a child's wants and instead focus on providing for their needs.

Moreover, the very cognitive dissonance ought to be addressed; I'll illustrate.

Why is an interest and/or disposition of liking and/or being mindful of sexuality and sensuality relegated with the terms 'pervert/perverted' (related to perverse), 'dirty', etc.? From whence did that hit emerge and IMO, unto which should it be be doffed?

It isn't, normally. When they use images and/or examples of, say, women sitting, naked, in provocative poses, on top of wrecking balls, licking the chains... well now....

Pris
10th December 2014, 17:22
Society today does promote the oversexualisation of little girls, however do not underestimate the power of the parent in terms of role model and authoritarian.

I was thinking about this for a few days actually. There was something here that was bothering me... and I finally figured it out.

It is NOT the role of a parent to be an authoritarian figure. Yes, it is the role of a parent to be a role-model.

ANY authoritarian figure is part of a hierarchical system of control. NO SOVEREIGN BEING wishes to be lorded over. It doesn't matter what age you are. This is why the term 'anarchist' has been misrepresented by the PTB as someone who brings 'chaos'. An anarchist is simply one who is against authority. It's the hierarchical systems of control that bring chaos.

The PTB use the idea of rebelling against authority as one of their tools of control, while at the same time, implementing their 'authority' in all areas of our lives. If you can make parents believe they are supposed to be authority figures in their children's lives, you'll be assured of conflict.

I grew up with loving parents who treated me as an equal and with respect. And, they took care of me for which I was, and shall always be, grateful. Was I rebellious? No. If I behaved in a way that was... undesirable or unreasonable, I was told I was embarrassing, or I was grabbed by the ear (lol) -- just as a friend would do to with their buddy. I must say, it worked. Respect goes both ways. And, as long as I can remember, I've always felt equal with anyone I've ever met.

lookbeyond
10th December 2014, 18:27
Glad youve been thinking pris, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just wondering pris, do you have any children of your own?

Pris
10th December 2014, 19:44
Glad youve been thinking pris, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, just wondering pris, do you have any children of your own?

Does it matter?

lookbeyond
10th December 2014, 19:55
IMO, yes. Get back to me in a few years when you have given birth to a few precious babes and begun raising them.Some of my views on parenthood as a young woman (pre motherhood) changed when I actually became a parent- these even included opinions I had on my own parents "methods"of child rearing.

Namaste Pris, and i am bowing out of this thread as I have stated my opinion on the topic of Disneys sexualisation of children and the rest is dribble, of course imo

Pris
10th December 2014, 20:11
IMO, yes. Get back to me in a few years when you have given birth to a few precious babes and begun raising them.Some of my views on parenthood as a young woman (pre motherhood) changed when I actually became a parent- these even included opinions I had on my own parents "methods"of child rearing.

Namaste Pris, and i am bowing out of this thread as I have stated my opinion on the topic of Disneys sexualisation of children and the rest is dribble, of course imo

With greatest respect to you, we are equals regardless of our experiences.

Shezbeth
11th December 2014, 11:28
Equals in terms of being sentient individuals, yes. This is one case however where one disregards experience rhetorically and is not entitled to the high-ground they seek to attain.

I agree that a parent should not act as an authoritarian, but recognize that a rearing child has no understanding of acceptability or unacceptability. The role of parent then includes becoming that of a disciplinarian, especially in the sense that if the parent does not then the state (unless the child has crafty sovereign parents) will, and purely statistically speaking will subject the child to a far less conducive experience.

This is one avenue where 'the lesser of two evils' definitely comes into play and idealism can get both parties (the parents and the children) into an endless heap of adversity. Being a parent means seeing to the child's best interest,... as in needs, as opposed to wants.

PurpleLama
11th December 2014, 12:22
It should also be observed that children are each unique, and what one responds to another simply won't. My eldest, by the time she was five only needed to observe my disappointment either expressed or implied, and would correct her own behavior. My second child, at the same age, is far more willful and wily, and requires more of an authoritative expression before he might respect one's wishes (which frequently involve his physical safety, or that of his younger brother, or one of the cats). I never even had to put hos older sister in time out, and only gave her one spanking in her life when she was almost three and ran out in the street and a car was coming. With the now almost five year son, you can explain to him why and usually he will listen, but if his wee little wily mind can think up a loop hole in your explanation, watch out! So already, he had seen more discipline at 4 3/4 than his sister ever did. Pinching an ear or expressing embarrassment are subtle expressions of discipline compared to others, but the latter is most definitely an expression of authority whereas the former relies on the child to self correct. One likewise must not forget, that children ever emulate their parents, and a conscious expression of authority on the part of a parent as opposed to a mindless because I said so, actually goes a long way to showing a child how to be their own authority, how to be sovereign in their own right. I do agree with lookbeyond's sentiment, that many ideas regarding child rearing are in need of being tested by actual experience, but I would expand on that, saying that each child may even require different ideas, different methods and strategies, to get the child to where they need to be, and unfortunately or fortunately it is in the parents right to decide what and why corrective action should be taken.