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Ria
16th July 2014, 14:34
BRICS Announce $100 Billion Reserve To Bypass Fed, Developed World Central Banks
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 07/15/2014 23:38 -0400
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-15/brics-announce-100-billion-reserve-bypass-fed-developed-world-central-banks
As we suggested last night, the anti-dollar alliance among the BRICS has successfully created a so-called "mini-IMF" since the BRICS are clearly furious with the IMF as it stands currently: this is what the world's developing nations just said on this topic "We remain disappointed and seriously concerned with the current non-implementation of the 2010 International Monetary Fund (IMF) reforms, which negatively impacts on the IMF’s legitimacy, credibility and effectiveness."



As Putin explains, this is part of "a system of measures that would help prevent the harassment of countries that do not agree with some foreign policy decisions made by the United States and their allies." Initial capital for the BRICS Bank will be $50 Billion - paid in equal share among the 5 members (with a contingent reserve up to $100 Billion) and will see India as the first President. The BRICS Bank will be based in Shanghai and chaired by Russia. Simply put, as Sovereign Man's Simon Black warns, "when you see this happen, you’ll know it’s game over for the dollar.... I give it 2-3 years."

BRICS MINISTERS SIGN DEVELOPMENT BANK AGREEMENT
INITIAL SUBSCRIBED CAPITAL OF BRICS BANK IS $50 BLN: STATEMENT
A quick take on existing monetary policy.

MONETARY POLICY MUST BE CAREFULLY CALIBRATED: BRICS STATEMENT
The punchline, however, is that using bilateral swaps, the BRICS are effectively disintermediating themselves from a Fed and other "developed world" central-bank dominated world and will provide their own funding.

We are pleased to announce the signing of the Treaty for the establishment of the BRICS Contingent Reserve Arrangement (CRA) with an initial size of US$ 100 billion. This arrangement will have a positive precautionary effect, help countries forestall short-term liquidity pressures, promote further BRICS cooperation, strengthen the global financial safety net and complement existing international arrangements.... The Agreement is a framework for the provision of liquidity through currency swaps in response to actual or potential short-term balance of payments pressures.
Incidentally, the role of the dollar in such a world is, well, nil.

For those who have forgotten who the BRICS are, aside from a droll acronym by a former Goldman banker, here is a reminder of the countries that make up 3 billion in population.



Key excerpts from the Full statement:

We remain disappointed and seriously concerned with the current non-implementation of the 2010 International Monetary Fund (IMF) reforms, which negatively impacts on the IMF’s legitimacy, credibility and effectiveness. The IMF reform process is based on high-level commitments, which already strengthened the Fund's resources and must also lead to the modernization of its governance structure so as to better reflect the increasing weight of EMDCs in the world economy. The Fund must remain a quota-based institution. We call on the membership of the IMF to find ways to implement the 14th General Review of Quotas without further delay. We reiterate our call on the IMF to develop options to move ahead with its reform process, with a view to ensuring increased voice and representation of EMDCs, in case the 2010 reforms are not entered into force by the end of the year. We also call on the membership of the IMF to reach a final agreement on a new quota formula together with the 15th General Review of Quotas so as not to further jeopardize the postponed deadline of January 2015.

BRICS, as well as other EMDCs, continue to face significant financing constraints to address infrastructure gaps and sustainable development needs. With this in mind, we are pleased to announce the signing of the Agreement establishing the New Development Bank (NDB), with the purpose of mobilizing resources for infrastructure and sustainable development projects in BRICS and other emerging and developing economies. We appreciate the work undertaken by our Finance Ministers. Based on sound banking principles, the NDB will strengthen the cooperation among our countries and will supplement the efforts of multilateral and regional financial institutions for global development, thus contributing to our collective commitments for achieving the goal of strong, sustainable and balanced growth.

The Bank shall have an initial authorized capital of US$ 100 billion. The initial subscribed capital shall be of US$ 50 billion, equally shared among founding members. The first chair of the Board of Governors shall be from Russia. The first chair of the Board of Directors shall be from Brazil. The first President of the Bank shall be from India. The headquarters of the Bank shall be located in Shanghai. The New Development Bank Africa Regional Center shall be established in South Africa concurrently with the headquarters. We direct our Finance Ministers to work out the modalities for its operationalization.

We are pleased to announce the signing of the Treaty for the establishment of the BRICS Contingent Reserve Arrangement (CRA) with an initial size of US$ 100 billion. This arrangement will have a positive precautionary effect, help countries forestall short-term liquidity pressures, promote further BRICS cooperation, strengthen the global financial safety net and complement existing international arrangements. We appreciate the work undertaken by our Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors. The Agreement is a framework for the provision of liquidity through currency swaps in response to actual or potential short-term balance of payments pressures.
Goodbye visions of an SDR-world currency. As for the USD...

Wolf Khan
17th July 2014, 00:50
One small step for man, One giant leap for wo/mankind.

KosmicKat
17th July 2014, 12:36
I'm not sure about the 2-3 year window for the final collapse of the US $, but we should expect to see some financially-oriented thrashing before things settle down.

The One
17th July 2014, 12:52
What i dont get with all this is this

If i country like Britain can print its own money i think they call it quantitative easing and put 700 billion into the banks then it really does make you wonder does it not.

Each country if they wanted could go there own way

Seikou-Kishi
17th July 2014, 13:56
Each country if they wanted could go there own way

Saddam Hussein tried that just before the attack on Iraq and Colonel Gadaffi tried it just before the attack on Libya.

BabaRa
17th July 2014, 21:02
What i dont get with all this is this

If i country like Britain can print its own money i think they call it quantitative easing and put 700 billion into the banks then it really does make you wonder does it not.

Each country if they wanted could go there own way


The problem is at least in the US and I assume any country that has a Central Bank: The US Gov't can't print it's own money - I repeat can not. We gave that ability away to the Federal Reserve ( which isn't Federal, but privately owned). And the Federal Reserve charges us for every dollar they print.

Which is why many of us ask: Why don't we take that task away from the Fed. Reserve. Why are we paying private individuals to print our money, when the US Treasury could do it for nothing?

Supposedly Kennedy was attempting to do that and one of the many reasons he was killed.

Ria
17th July 2014, 21:12
ADid the Other Shoe Just Drop? Big Banks Hit with Monster $250 Billion Lawsuit in Housing Crisis
Posted on July 16, 2014 by Ellen Brown — 4 Comments ↓
For years, homeowners have been battling Wall Street in an attempt to recover some portion of their massive losses from the housing Ponzi scheme. But progress has been slow, as they have been outgunned and out-spent by the banking titans.

In June, however, the banks may have met their match, as some equally powerful titans strode onto the stage. Investors led by BlackRock, the world’s largest asset manager, and PIMCO, the world’s largest bond-fund manager, have sued some of the world’s largest banks for breach of fiduciary duty as trustees of their investment funds. The investors are seeking damages for losses surpassing $250 billion. That is the equivalent of one million homeowners with $250,000 in damages suing at one time.

The defendants are the so-called trust banks that oversee payments and enforce terms on more than $2 trillion in residential mortgage securities. They include units of Deutsche Bank AG, U.S. Bank, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, HSBC Holdings PLC, and Bank of New York Mellon Corp. Six nearly identical complaints charge the trust banks with breach of their duty to force lenders and sponsors of the mortgage-backed securities to repurchase defective loans.

Why the investors are only now suing is complicated, but it involves a recent court decision on the statute of limitations.
http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/07/did-the-other-shoe-just-drop-big-banks-hit-with-monster-250-billion-lawsuit-in-housing-crisis/

Read more at http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/07/did-the-other-shoe-just-drop-big-banks-hit-with-monster-250-billion-lawsuit-in-housing-crisis/#tKaIsgBBE0E466LL.99

Ria
20th July 2014, 12:01
BRICS establish $100bn bank and currency pool to cut out Western dominance
For more click on link
http://rt.com/business/173008-brics-bank-currency-pool/

Lord Sidious
20th July 2014, 13:03
Saddam Hussein tried that just before the attack on Iraq and Colonel Gadaffi tried it just before the attack on Libya.

So did Corporal Hitler.

Spiral
20th July 2014, 13:48
What i dont get with all this is this

If i country like Britain can print its own money i think they call it quantitative easing and put 700 billion into the banks then it really does make you wonder does it not.

Each country if they wanted could go there own way

No Britain cannot print it's own money, The Bank of England is a private company, it's share holders are secret, it & nearly every other bank in the world is a private company pretending to be a state organ, there is little practical difference between the Fed ( "it's as federal as fed-ex" as the joke goes) & The Bank of England.

These currencies issued by these banks are called "fiat currencies" and they can just create as much money out of thin air as they like, the people behind these banks are the real "Cabal"

This is long but its a much watch.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfpO-WBz_mw

norman
21st July 2014, 01:21
Putin is in Brazil at the BRICS Summit right now.

I wonder if that makes any difference to his willingness to push the nuke button if he's provoked enough.

A nuclear exchange wouldn't (probably) target him in Brazil.

monk
21st July 2014, 11:52
Sooo the next step is simultaneous Iraq style invasions against Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, South America etc etc to prevent an independent gold standard?

Maybe they'll try to nuke us all!!? Ha!

Anyway, I've used up my lifetime allowance of 4 seconds investing my infinite power in the potential negative future machinations of individuals I want to suffocate of, at the very least, my infinite power and attention.

Spiral
20th February 2015, 19:08
Russia Ratifies $100 Billion BRICS New Development Bank


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9uBJD9glrY

The Russian State Duma has ratified the $100 billion BRICS bank that’ll serve as a pool of money for infrastructure projects in Russia, Brazil, India, China and South Africa, and challenge the dominance of the Western-led World Bank and the IMF.

The New Development Bank is expected to start fully functioning by the end of 2015, according to the Russian Finance Ministry.

Russia has agreed to provide $2 billion dollars from the federal budget for the bank over the next seven years.

It will have three-tiers of corporate governance, with a Board of Governors, Board of Directors and a President.

http://rt.com/business/234027-russia-ratifies-brics-bank/

That Guy
20th February 2015, 19:38
Errrrrrrrrrr, not that I have a 100 billion to spare laying around in the direct vicinity of my laptop, but a 100 billion isn't that much if you'd ask me, its definitely not going to save the world, the EU just pumped 1100 billion in the economy, meaning........ apparently there's a hole 1100 billions deep somewhere, just like that, and the world has currently probably dozens of these holes.

For fun check out the below numbers, adding them up is fun too, is these are costs in the open, only god knows how much was actually pumped into this conflict and the occasional relief fund alone.

FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 billion Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War

Spiral
20th February 2015, 19:45
Errrrrrrrrrr, not that I have a 100 billion to spare laying around in the direct vicinity of my laptop, but a 100 billion isn't that much if you'd ask me, its definitely not going to save the world, the EU just pumped 1100 billion in the economy, meaning........ apparently there's a hole 1100 billions deep somewhere, just like that, and the world has currently probably dozens of these holes.

For fun check out the below numbers, adding them up is fun too, is these are costs in the open, only god knows how much was actually pumped into this conflict and the occasional relief fund alone.

FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 billion Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War

Yeah, this is what played in my head :holysheep:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

Elbie
20th February 2015, 19:57
Errrrrrrrrrr, not that I have a 100 billion to spare laying around in the direct vicinity of my laptop, but a 100 billion isn't that much if you'd ask me, its definitely not going to save the world, the EU just pumped 1100 billion in the economy, meaning........ apparently there's a hole 1100 billions deep somewhere, just like that, and the world has currently probably dozens of these holes.

For fun check out the below numbers, adding them up is fun too, is these are costs in the open, only god knows how much was actually pumped into this conflict and the occasional relief fund alone.

FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 billion Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War

it's an enormous lot, particularly when you don't have it.

Eu is following in the Us's footstep.. as of march this year ECB will be printing money like there's no tomorrow.

qute unlike Rus and China with negligeable foreign debt..falling oil price affected the ruble, but this hasn't changed anything internally for Rus citizen, except it became too dear to travel abroad/take their money abroad..

NANUXII
20th February 2015, 20:33
One small step for man, One giant leap for wo/mankind.

Man Kind is a non gender specific term. We are all Man Hu Man to be precice.

Like the word Actor ... its a non gender specific term.

Putin i have to say has fantastic skill in tactfully re defining a global outlook. Thats an imense task. I still wonder if they are somehow in the back ghround meeting for beers and plotting with us admins .. but i really want to believe its real.

I have been studying his movements for the last 4 years and i must say, his training in the KGB has paid off. I always believed that China was the smoke screen and Russia was the dark horse.

Just wait till India , China and Russia form the new Brics Global Front ... the south pacific is next ... just one click away westies ! then , check mate : 0) Mwahahahah ahahaa a aaa r gh cough cough !

Hugs

N

modwiz
20th February 2015, 20:42
The enormity of this Brics alliance will become apparent in the Spring when the IMF and the Brics funds become partners. Russian alternative to SWIFT began yesterday. 3 months early. Very big things are happening and TV watchers will be the last to know. Keep your eyes and ears open. A new world is coming.

NANUXII
20th February 2015, 20:51
The enormity of this Brics alliance will become apparent in the Spring when the IMF and the Brics funds become partners. Russian alternative to SWIFT began yesterday. 3 months early. Very big things are happening and TV watchers will be the last to know. Keep your eyes and ears open. A new world is coming.

oooh really ? Bic Swift is no more 3 months early ? wow , now thats pulling the rug ! bravo ! i can feel it in my plumbs !

That Guy
20th February 2015, 21:10
as of march this year ECB will be printing money like there's no tomorrow

With us as collateral of course, there is nothing else to back it up with left.

modwiz
20th February 2015, 21:13
oooh really ? Bic Swift is no more 3 months early ? wow , now thats pulling the rug ! bravo ! i can feel it in my plumbs !

Here is a strategy. Kiev cuts of gas to their Eastern rebel regions. Russia is now supplying them with gas. Who gets/pays the bill? If Kiev claims the East, they get the bill. Kiev either claims these regions and the bills or........... Freekin brilliant. Meanwhile Russia gets the humanitarian credits. Porky has a short political life ahead of him, I am sure of that. Not so sure about it being only political.

Elbie
20th February 2015, 21:39
Here is a strategy. Kiev cuts of gas to their Eastern rebel regions. Russia is now supplying them with gas. Who gets/pays the bill? If Kiev claims the East, they get the bill. Kiev either claims these regions and the bills or........... Freekin brilliant. Meanwhile Russia gets the humanitarian credits. Porky has a short political life ahead of him, I am sure of that. Not so sure about it being only political.

kiev already cut off gass supplies to donbas.. this was 2-3 days ago.. at the moment, Rus. is re-routing the gas flow so it reaches donbas after all AND plans to charge Ukr for it in either case.

-----

sure he wants eastern terrtory, but without its' rightful inhabitants..

i think you are right in thinking they are about to zap him any day now.

-----------------

this is how kievans "greeted" him yesterday, on maydan's sq anniversary.

he was booed off, made to make a quick exit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMZ4n8RW1hE

------

sorry for going off topic ria, :back to topic:.

NANUXII
20th February 2015, 21:42
Here is a strategy. Kiev cuts of gas to their Eastern rebel regions. Russia is now supplying them with gas. Who gets/pays the bill? If Kiev claims the East, they get the bill. Kiev either claims these regions and the bills or........... Freekin brilliant. Meanwhile Russia gets the humanitarian credits. Porky has a short political life ahead of him, I am sure of that. Not so sure about it being only political.

Yeah , i think Putin sort of got a bit upset at the Malaysian air bungle over the Eu .. now he is on the boil ... lets see where this leads. I spoke to a friend about this who is in these circles... i told him that the greater spheres of power may collide as a design fault in their geneology. Nothing is going to prepare them for the phase cancellation of greed.

the meek shall inherit ? i like those odds..

N

Tonz
21st February 2015, 02:41
Errrrrrrrrrr, not that I have a 100 billion to spare laying around in the direct vicinity of my laptop, but a 100 billion isn't that much if you'd ask me, its definitely not going to save the world, the EU just pumped 1100 billion in the economy, meaning........ apparently there's a hole 1100 billions deep somewhere, just like that, and the world has currently probably dozens of these holes.


Of course not Guy, they can not start with to much ,and scare there own people, who do not understand high level monitory systems and there use,they all have struggling folk in there countries and the protests would be uncontrollable., as it is still only cyber money where 00000000s are easily pressed, i'm prety good at it as well.

The one thing that Russia and i think China have, are , new and massive gold mine deposits and the central bank countries do not.So they have real gold to back there moneys and the cabal are using fake and extended credited backing, to maintain theirs.

10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000000000000,it's easy really.!

That Guy
21st February 2015, 07:24
The one thing that Russia and i think China have, are , new and massive gold mine deposits and the central bank countries do not.So they have real gold to back there moneys

I hope so for the sake of their people, google earth should be able to detect those massive mining holes in the ground then I suppose, blocking/hiding them from view would make no sense at all if they would want to inspire us with confidence in their good will and reserves and make us accept their new reserve.

As for us, westerners, I don't have high hopes, we the people are the only resource they have left, and we will be in debt and slavery for at least 10 generations to come.

Agreed, punching in numbers is really easy if you don't value the lives of those who have to cough up the energy to pay for debt they did not create, but hey, I am sure they unleashed many computer simulations with just as many scenarios that will mostly play out in their favor, not in ours, lol. Keep on prepping people, buy those seeds and tools, don't forget a water filter. http://ronmauer.net/blog/

Catsquotl
21st February 2015, 07:27
I see it as a first step mainly. who can eat gold and silver?

With Love
Eelco

That Guy
21st February 2015, 07:30
I see it as a first step mainly. who can eat gold and silver?

With Love
Eelco

Apparently some dragons do.

KosmicKat
21st February 2015, 11:45
Like the word Actor ... its a non gender specific term.

Since nobody refers to actresses these days. :(

Elbie
21st February 2015, 12:24
I see it as a first step mainly. who can eat gold and silver?

With Love
Eelco

nobody. but it swaps well for (agricultural) goods and services.
as it is, BRICS countries are already using their own currencies for mutual trade, settling the difference in gold..which is the way you make gold edible.

if any new international currency is up and running and used by BRICS, it'll be backed by gold..while petrodollar remains backed by guns.
it is then logical to expect the US will continue their wars initiative globally, while the brics block will continue their effort to expand trade mutually and increase gold reserves.

#the five founding BRICS contires are only part of the alliance..there are 130+ countries in addition.

Tonz
21st February 2015, 12:34
Quote Originally Posted by Eelco View Post
I see it as a first step mainly. who can eat gold and silver?

With Love
Eelco
Apparently some dragons do.

lol :hilarious:

modwiz
21st February 2015, 12:43
Apparently some dragons do.

Apparently? Got some back-up for your wisdom? I figure to let you state your case before commenting further. If just ignorance, please say so.

You and I have not yet matched wits. Care for a go?

Ria
21st February 2015, 13:17
Apparently? Got some back-up for your wisdom? I figure to let you state your case before commenting further. If just ignorance, please say so.

You and I have not yet matched wits. Care for a go?
This would good for the record, done in a civil manner.

Spiral
21st February 2015, 13:19
This would good for the record, done in a civil manner.

Should be fun, care for some popcorn ?


:popc:

Tonz
21st February 2015, 13:20
Oh ,that guy ,i was thinking ''dragons'' to the lines from say the book of man .What were you referring to.:popc: i think i will join you spiral.

Elbie
21st February 2015, 13:24
This would good for the record, done in a civil manner.


Modwiz Apparently? Got some back-up for your wisdom? I figure to let you state your case before commenting further. If just ignorance, please say so.

You and I have not yet matched wits. Care for a go?

i sincerely don't understand what you two are implying..:confused:

Catsquotl
21st February 2015, 13:31
nobody. but it swaps well for (agricultural) goods and services.
as it is, BRICS countries are already using their own currencies for mutual trade, settling the difference in gold..which is the way you make gold edible.

if any new international currency is up and running and used by BRICS, it'll be backed by gold..while petrodollar remains backed by guns.
it is then logical to expect the US will continue their wars initiative globally, while the brics block will continue their effort to expand trade mutually and increase gold reserves.

#the five founding BRICS contires are only part of the alliance..there are 130+ countries in addition.

I know it swaps well.
I am glad there is gold backed money again instead of debt based.

That said I was expressing my wish for a future where one day money is a thing of the past once we see sharing should be done from the heart. Gifting what we can and helping each other selflessly.
That's why I said it is a good first step.

With Love
Eelco

The One
21st February 2015, 13:32
Mud slanging will be not be tolerated on the public forum and as such post will be deleted if this happens.Please do not promote this

May i suggest that any concerns you have you do it via pm

Cheers

Elbie
21st February 2015, 13:40
I know it swaps well.
I am glad there is gold backed money again instead of debt based.

That said I was expressing my wish for a future where one day money is a thing of the past once we see sharing should be done from the heart. Gifting what we can and helping each other selflessly.
That's why I said it is a good first step.

With Love
Eelco

i wasn't having a go at you..just reminding everyone of what is happening in other parts of the world we don't get to hear much about.
sure, i too wish i was able to produce as many kilos of apples and tomatoes to swap it for desireable amount of say honey and various tools..without money. ..but there'd be electricity/gas supply people knocking on my door and they'd want money.

there's a length more to go before we achieve moneyless society..

Spiral
21st February 2015, 13:43
I know it swaps well.
I am glad there is gold backed money again instead of debt based.

That said I was expressing my wish for a future where one day money is a thing of the past once we see sharing should be done from the heart. Gifting what we can and helping each other selflessly.
That's why I said it is a good first step.

With Love
Eelco

We would have to change as a species so much we would be unrecognisable to live without money, esp when you consider that most of the really vital jobs are unpleasant & very mundane such as maintaining the sewers or cutting broccoli etc etc

Money itself isn't the problem, its the banks that "create" money & the corrupt banking & financial systems that lie, defraud & swindle that are the problem.

Which is of course not an abstract, but a bunch of people who use trickery of every kind to keep themselves in power whilst skimming huge amounts off the top for themselves.

Catsquotl
21st February 2015, 13:54
I have a dream. That one day my childrens childrens children will have realized that a value token(mony) is no longer neccsary. that they pierced through the illusion of it all. My statement came from that dream.
As it is I realize full well that I will not be around anymore when that happens.

Until then I will work and use the tokens soceity pushes on us and hope that in the mean time I will see the emergence of a token system that is fair and wont allow for too much misconception, slavery and what not.

With love
Eelco

Tonz
21st February 2015, 13:58
Found this interesting:

In late November I wrote an article suggesting that it could be in Russia’s interest to put the rouble on a gold exchange standard. The salient points were the Russians could easily make it stick, inflation would be tamed, and importantly Russia would divorce herself from the currency war being waged against her by her NATO enemies. The immediate consequence of such a move would almost certainly drive gold prices higher, if only because bullion banks would be forced to reconsider their short positions, in the knowledge that Russia would probably become a more aggressive buyer to build her reserves.

This move would be very good for Russia, if you understand Austrian economic theory, but would be judged reckless by mainstream macroeconomists. So it is obviously a prerequisite that President Vladimir Putin’s advisers would have to lean strongly towards sound money theories, if they are to advise such a move. Whether or not this is the case we do not know; the only thing we can do is look at the evidence and try to see things from Putin’s point of view.

Putin is an old-fashioned mercantilist, tolerating mild dissent to preserve the appearance of democracy, but ruthless with anyone who gets in his way. He runs Russia like a business, always looking for the commercial advantage in alliances. For this reason he decided some time ago that Russia’s future lay as a dominant partner with China in a Eurasian super-state, and so the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) was founded in 2001. It’s a natural: Russia has the resources and China the manufacturing. The SCO will have half the world’s population under its control when India joins, and will heavily influence another billion Asians. Even Turkey, a NATO member and previously an applicant to join the EU, intends to join the SCO instead.

The West pushed Putin in this direction, by refusing to engage with him after the Litvinenko affair in London, and by financing unrest in Georgia and Ukraine. These activities have only served to heighten Russia’s sense of insecurity and renewed her determination to secure her borders.

An important feature of the SCO is that China, Russia and most of the other members have been buying gold. China has been buying since 1983 at least, but for Russia this is a relatively new activity, having lost her official reserves at the time of the Russian financial crisis in 1998. Nevertheless, she has been aggressively buying so that she has more than tripled her holding since 2005 to 1,207 tonnes, now the world’s fifth largest holding. Importantly, during the recent rouble crisis Russia continued buying gold at a time when she might have been expected to preserve her dollar reserves.

Circumstantial evidence perhaps, but Russia’s gold policy clearly tells us Putin’s advisers favour the stuff. Of course, the reasons may not be economic, but strategic. What if his intelligence services have evidence of the lack of gold in western central bank vaults? What if the Central Bank of Russia’s gold dealers are setting a trap for the heart of the West’s financial system, and can break the bullion banks when they please? Both these are possible, and they may be fundamental to Russia’s defence strategy, given the war being waged is more financial than military.

We can only speculate, but there is an overriding aspect of the future that Putin is almost certainly considering: his legacy. If this matters to him he will want Russia to not only survive but for her to be top-dog, with him as the architect. He has almost certainly been made aware of MacKinder’s Heartland Theory: “he who rules East Europe commands the Heartland; who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island; who rules the World-Island controls the World.” Nor is this mumbo-jumbo; MacKinder’s point was that the World-Island, the inter-linked continents of Europe, Asia and Africa is the largest, most populous, and resource-richest of all possible land combinations. Russia’s partnership with China through the SCO substantially achieves this, particularly since China now also controls Sub-Saharan Africa.

When Putin has secured Russia’s borders, he will need to deal with organised crime, eliminating it as much as possible. He will have to change the way he does business and enhance private property rights. Russia with her low taxes will then be an attractive place to do business in and with. And finally, he will have to secure the currency from the increasingly inevitable collapse of the global currency system.

This ultimately is the importance of gold for Russia, and the fact she has been acquiring it aggressively suggests Putin knows it. Remember that Putin is not like a western politician driven from one trivial crisis to another and wholly reliant on a central bank to handle money matters. Elvira Nabiullina, the head of Russia’s central bank was previously his personal economic adviser, and is almost certainly his personal appointee. Through her, we can assume Putin controls the central bank.

Given that Putin is actively considering a move towards some sort of rouble-gold convertibility, it comes down to timing. Ideally, Russia would probably like to add further to its reserves, though we don’t know how much non-monetary gold Russia owns. It is quite possible Russia has additional gold to the 1,207 tonnes declared so far. If so a first step would be to declare the full position, which may trigger a similar declaration from China, there then being no point in China continuing to conceal Russia’s true position. The more gold Russia actually has, the more likely it is to want to announce its intentions sooner rather than later.

To a large extent timing will be down to NATO. If NATO escalates its involvement in Ukraine, with or without more financial sanctions, Russia might respond to stabilise the rouble by announcing a gold standard. The good news for us lesser mortals in the West is that at least a financial war is better than a nuclear war. Unless, that is, it becomes one.

modwiz
21st February 2015, 14:12
This would good for the record, done in a civil manner.

Dragon civility. Born under that sign. It all depends on what gets served. Ignorance is rubbing me the wrong way. One of the reasons I left briefly. Coming back meant not biting my tongue any longer. I was asked back.:)

People would be well served giving some thought to their posts. Someone might take them up on their ignorance. Like LS and Stoat.

A little mindfulness would help keep the noise down.

modwiz
21st February 2015, 14:18
Mud slanging will be not be tolerated on the public forum and as such post will be deleted if this happens.Please do not promote this

May i suggest that any concerns you have you do it via pm

Cheers

I responded to a public post, Malc. Public ignorance is not PM business. Clarity benefits all. I would ignore him before PMing him. However, point has been made. Pufferfish identified. With PM not an option, cease and desist will follow. Any buffoonery will be ignored.

Malc, I left out of frustration with ignorance. Just so you know. Seething quietly is unhealthy.

I must say, seeing voyeuristic popcorn being pulled out makes me disinclined to "entertain", so no worries, mate.

That Guy
21st February 2015, 17:05
Apparently? Got some back-up for your wisdom? I figure to let you state your case before commenting further. If just ignorance, please say so.

You and I have not yet matched wits. Care for a go?

Lol, hold your horses Rad, easy, easy, there is an old Teutonic tale where a dragon is filled with gold ( ate it), some hero slayed the dragon and it rained gold.

dear god, half a page of shock and awe in two hrs time, lol:holysheep:

That Guy
21st February 2015, 17:08
I responded to a public post, Malc. Public ignorance is not PM business. Clarity benefits all. I would ignore him before PMing him. However, point has been made. Pufferfish identified. With PM not an option, cease and desist will follow. Any buffoonery will be ignored.

Malc, I left out of frustration with ignorance. Just so you know. Seething quietly is unhealthy.

I must say, seeing voyeuristic popcorn being pulled out makes me disinclined to "entertain", so no worries, mate.

Oi, there was nothing personal towards you in my response, how the hell did this manage to semi explode into this, all the troops came out, the popcorn is being prepared, dear god, wtf???

That Guy
21st February 2015, 17:10
Pufferfish identified

Errrrr?

Catsquotl
21st February 2015, 17:28
Like anyone i'd be interested in an exchange of wits between thatguy and modwiz. I would hope though its regarding a topic everybody could benefit from the exchange for whats being discussed.
Not about the (i think) misconception of what constitutes a dragon. Fairy tales,stories of legend or real life families. As I fear could be the case here..

:back to topic:

What I would like to know is how the BRICS countries, even though they have some gold to back the currency, implement their gold to value ratio.
Will they use a fractional finance "trick" to give out loans? Have they implemented save guards for usury?

I know I am slow on the uptake some times.These questions only just now surfaced and I will investigate myself, but would be thankful if anyone has some pointers to where to go for more.

With Love
Eelco

That Guy
21st February 2015, 17:34
Not about the (i think) misconception of what constitutes a dragon. Fairy tales,stories of legend or real life families. As I fear could be the case here..

That is exactly what happened here, sigh. Nothing more to add

PUFFERFISH OUT, goddammit.

The One
21st February 2015, 17:35
All thats happened here is a misunderstanding

Can we please move on wtf is there something in the air or what

Maybe its times for this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpevZ0-wUYQ

Ria
21st February 2015, 18:05
Dear Malc can we not have a discussion about facts and logic that do not resort into unpleasantness?

777
21st February 2015, 18:08
Dear Malc can we not have a discussion about facts and logic that do not resort into unpleasantness?

That clearly remains to be seen doesn't it. For the sake of this wonderful place I certainly hope so Ria. :group hug:

Spiral
21st February 2015, 18:50
What I would like to know is how the BRICS countries, even though they have some gold to back the currency, implement their gold to value ratio.
Will they use a fractional finance "trick" to give out loans? Have they implemented save guards for usury?

I know I am slow on the uptake some times.These questions only just now surfaced and I will investigate myself, but would be thankful if anyone has some pointers to where to go for more.

With Love
Eelco

This is what I think would happen based on things I've seen & read & half remembered ( probably wrong but at least I'll stick my neck out :tiphat: )

Certainly China, S Africa & Russia all have big gold mines, so can literally "create wealth", China is rumoured to be sat on thousands of tons of gold bullion that it has saved up over the years.

If they based their currencies on gold I presume each monetary unit, "rouble" (or whatever) would be worth (as is a token of ) a tiny piece of gold, say a 1000th of an ounce for arguments sake.

For each rouble there would have to be a physical piece of gold, they could use the "trick" or "rehypothecation" to an agreed amount, as not all monies would be claimed at once, but it would be the start of the slippery slope all over again.

This should mean that the currency is directly pegged to the price of gold, which would mean that all currencies linked to gold would be worth the same & a lot of the rackets like currency trading & manipulating currency values for one reason or another would end.

It would also spell the end of private "central banks" & the worlds biggest scam, the bond market, if done right & we wouldn't be all in debt to criminals who created money out of thin air & then demanded interest on it.

Tonz
22nd February 2015, 00:17
This should mean that the currency is directly pegged to the price of gold, which would mean that all currencies linked to gold would be worth the same & a lot of the rackets like currency trading & manipulating currency values for one reason or another would end.

It would also spell the end of private "central banks" & the worlds biggest scam, the bond market, if done right & we wouldn't be all in debt to criminals who created money out of thin air & then demanded interest on it.


Yes it would be logical that even with the changes ahead from Bricks , the money base price will be that of gold , in fact ,there is problem with gold , there isnt enough of it to get to the amount of zeros , so when it really hits the fan ,i think within 2 years (my opinion mixed with dow charts)the price of gold will have to rise ,perhaps three to four times, its value to compensate for the lack of it go around.

Here is a little snit bit of info ;
How much gold do we think there is ?? ,a quick search gives us a declared figure ratio

At the end of 2009, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totaled 165,000 tonnes. This can be represented by a cube with an edge length of about 20.28 meters. At $1,600 per troy ounce, 165,000 metric tonnes of gold would have a value of $8.5 trillion.

You see there isn't enough to back the amount of money supposedly circulating so its price will have to rise to record amounts in order to get at least closer to be able to back currencies.A good time to invest i'm led to believe is when it goes below the 1000 dollar mark,I think this will mean the end game for the U.S. dollar,just before they ruin the place , It was done before in this manor , remember they made Greece use all of its gold reserve to pay immediate debts, that week the gold went down 20 percent i think it was , just before they payed which helped to ruin them even further.

Perhaps in time even gold wont be anywhere near its use and also will fall to become worthless.And a new system will be in place but for the up and coming transition of primary change gold is it.

Tonz
22nd February 2015, 00:45
Just adding a little spanner to the works,to the scenario above ,although the u.s. dollar is the agenda ,what about that of this Dragon,Where does this one go in the course of things ?


935

Spiral
22nd February 2015, 12:02
At the end of 2009, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totaled 165,000 tonnes. This can be represented by a cube with an edge length of about 20.28 meters. At $1,600 per troy ounce, 165,000 metric tonnes of gold would have a value of $8.5 trillion.

You see there isn't enough to back the amount of money supposedly circulating so its price will have to rise to record amounts in order to get at least closer to be able to back currencies

There are two values for billion, but even with the short one that is well over 1200 dollars per human being,(gold is about that right now) not as figures on a balance or bonds or shares, but as cash, what percentage of the worlds population have 1200 dollars in cash right now (every man, woman & child ) ?

How many even have 1200 $ in a bank ?

It's mind boggling stuff, but bear in mind that shares are also legitimate, ( if done properly ), and land, buildings & materiel all have value too, so the cash currency would only be a means of exchange, because the net worth of all things cannot be reduced to the total cash in circulation, and not all things are for sale at any one time.

There are some big questions here, one of which is how much gold is there & where is it ?

Fort Knox is supposed to be empty, other gold deposits seem to have vanished too, what about the gold that "disappeared" on 9/11 & the gold the Germans want back from the US that is not happening.

Then there are the highly secretive Chinese state owned gold mines & reserves, .....& then there is the Dragon Family...

Personally I'm not decided about the Dragon Family either way & nothing would surprise me, my head says "pfft", but my heart says it has to be true & real positive change is coming :hmm:

BabaRa
22nd February 2015, 15:55
Probably very naïve on my part, but I have never understood all this fuss about whether money is backed by gold or not. . . Gold, silver, paper dollars, seashells . . . .it's all just worth what we agreed upon.

If and when this all crashes, gold is only going to be as valuable as what we decide it's worth. What the heck can most of us do with gold?? . . during a depression what will really be of value is your ability to grow food or create something that helps us grow food or build abodes or make clothes.

Catsquotl
22nd February 2015, 18:12
Nope not naïve at all. I for one agree with the idea that it's just an agreement and that we cannot eat gold.
There are some differences though in how money that is backed by something like gold, or macademian nuts for instance as opposed to money that is backed by debt(the agreement of future labour)

The idea of valuable tokens though is so deeply imprinted in the consciousness of most people these days that it is impossible to stop using such tokens without many people going in to full panic mode i fear. I hope i'm wrong about that.

The BRICS nations and the newly created New Development Bank hopefully is a step in a direction where those that have developed the system of western finance will have to take a step down. I hope that the NDB will somehow by breaking the IMF monopoly be able to help create a fairer distribution of funds. Although at the moment all figures I see are still in US dollars.

As I understand it there is a reserve pool of 50 billion dollar, and the promise to guarantee 50 Billion more. for a total of 100 Billion. That money will be used to saveguard the BRICS nations from having to much setbacks in developing their economies if the IMF starts to fail or break down. Even though the OP talks about an equal share for all countries this applies only for the first 50 billion as I understand it. The rest is guaranteed as followed. SA 5B, Rus,Braz,Ind 18B and China 41 B.

The counties will not have a veto right and some more countries are lining up to join.
I am not sure how all this is backed and which financial system or even trickery will make sure the NDB will follow in the IMF's footsteps.
I can only hope they will be less ruthless than the IMF ever was.

With Love
Eelco

Elbie
22nd February 2015, 19:01
Probably very naïve on my part, but I have never understood all this fuss about whether money is backed by gold or not. . . Gold, silver, paper dollars, seashells . . . .it's all just worth what we agreed upon.

If and when this all crashes, gold is only going to be as valuable as what we decide it's worth. What the heck can most of us do with gold?? . . during a depression what will really be of value is your ability to grow food or create something that helps us grow food or build abodes or make clothes.

during the great depression a good strata of population carried on to live handsomely, even better..at the same time that class dampened the price of gold for those who possessed only family jewlery.

about eat or not eat gold, try and imagine this situation: you are on your own piece of land, on your own farm and need no gold or money to survive because you produce your own food. now think about those not as lucky to own means of food production, but possess guns instead.. what do you think they would do?

you do need to have a relatively prosperous society for violence to be subdued to minority cases.. then you could argue that money and any other intermediary agent for value exchange is unnecessary.

modwiz
22nd February 2015, 19:19
about eat or not eat gold, try and imagine this situation: you are on your own piece of land, on your own farm and need no gold or money to survive because you produce your own food. now think about those not as lucky to own means of food production, but possess guns instead.. what do you think they would do?


In my world the farmers would be armed as well. Immune system duties have to be shared. Pathogens will not thrive in a healthy world. Freedom and vigilance go together. Self-defense is just a what-so in a real world.

Elbie
22nd February 2015, 19:31
In my world the farmers would be armed as well. Immune system duties have to be shared. Pathogens will not thrive in a healthy world. Freedom and vigilance go together. Self-defense is just a what-so in a real world.

i don't dislike the idea at all. i would still argue that in such organisation the society would become stratified or sanitised. pathogens/psycho sickos would need to be cut off literally.

it would seamlessly fit Us society, not Eu where guns carrying was/is not on the cards . unless you wanna go illlegal.

modwiz
22nd February 2015, 19:43
i don't dislike the idea at all. i would still argue that in such organisation the society would become stratified or sanitised. pathogens/psycho sickos would need to be cut off literally.

it would seamlessly fit Us society, not Eu where guns carrying was/is not on the cards . unless you wanna go illlegal.

The "legal", not Law, system is another abomination that needs to go. Laws are for tyrants and morons. Sovereign beings sort it out amongst themselves. Hygiene has deep meaning to a sovereign society/organism. Cleaning and keeping clean are all part of the vigilance of freedom.

Elbie
22nd February 2015, 20:23
The "legal", not Law, system is another abomination that needs to go. Laws are for tyrants and morons. Sovereign beings sort it out amongst themselves. Hygiene has deep meaning to a sovereign society/organism. Cleaning and keeping clean are all part of the vigilance of freedom.

i would say legal versus lawful.. it's perfectly justifiable to go lawful and protect your life and livelihood..legal stuff is for the scum i know who's inetersted in finding loopholes to appear squeeky clean and continue to plunder.

the reason why i like BRICs initiative is because is 'live an dlet live' in practice.. if you like petrodollar, go use it, while we do things our way. it's a natural evolution rather than revolution. i for one would hate to see any blood spilled.

the more the better.

NANUXII
23rd February 2015, 02:08
she sounds like someone id want to look after my bank , " Elvira Nabiullina " .. hmmm

NANUXII
23rd February 2015, 02:12
The "legal", not Law, system is another abomination that needs to go. Laws are for tyrants and morons. Sovereign beings sort it out amongst themselves. Hygiene has deep meaning to a sovereign society/organism. Cleaning and keeping clean are all part of the vigilance of freedom.

Go Mod, Goooo !

BabaRa
23rd February 2015, 05:41
Never knew a farmer who didn't have a gun, Elbie
But . . . that's another issue.
.
I was thinking more in terms of what is worth what. My quote was more in line with: Why do we believe gold is worth more than silver, or quartz or seashells, rather than putting value on things that we can do something with.

I compare it to: Why is the Mona Lisa highly valued and the copies of the Mona Lisa that it takes experts to detect, not highly valued.

I suspect the "waking up process" requires that we don't rely on others to tell us what is valuable or not. I have seen pictures in modern museums that almost anyone could paint that have price tags on them of thousands of dollars. Who decides? It seems from an historical perspective that there was a reason that gold was considered valuable, but I can't see that the reason exists any longer.

Paper money would work just fine IF we got rid of the Central Banks who turned it into a money-making scheme for their own benefit. As long as the Central Banks charge us for printing $$, it won't matter if the $$ are backed by gold or not. It will remain the same debt creator for the citizens.