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modwiz
8th February 2014, 22:34
A dynamic has developed on this forum, and undoubtedly other forums, where a querent is answered with a form of 'know thyself' as an answer. This has caused some umbrage. The querent feels minimized or ignored. Emotional body overrides the mental body, adreno-chemicals are released, and any from of meaningful intellectual dialogue is halted. Language is filled with emotional terms.

This is not a desirable dynamic.

The one to whom a question is directed at needs to consider who is asking? Is it a programmed being still fraught with myriad traumas and life situations not under their control, or someone who asks from knowing them self? Knowing oneself is not the answer to questions about the outer outer world and everything. It is a beginning. It is knowing our value, and hence, the value of the information that is commensurate with our needs.

I recommend the following books for all who want some details to engage their cerebral skills.

Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity if the Soul. The title itself is indicative of value. Themes of value fulfillment, units of consciousness and joyousness as the default soul 'setting' are of a value that can only be experienced. Except you can hold it in your hands and not be at the 'mercy' of some metaphysical 'hoarder of knowledge':rolleyes:.

The Nature of Personal Reality: Builds upon the material of Seth Speaks and takes us into the mechanics behind our personal reality. Much of the misery we experience can be understood with the information provided in the book. I read it in the misery of a marriage break-up. I was in a new place the next day and it became 'old news' by the time I finished the book.

These books can lead one to know themselves enough to enrich their lives. Seth Speaks is the fountain of 'create you own reality'. All themes associated with the quoted phrase derive from this seminal modern work. The new age has ridden the wave of consciousness it generated.

The new age has a lot of surf bums.:ha:

modwiz
9th February 2014, 00:50
The law of Thelema is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will."

What is Thelema?


The law of Thelema was developed by Aleister Crowley, the early 20th-century British writer and ceremonial magician.[3] He believed himself to be the prophet of a new age, the Ĉon of Horus, based upon a spiritual experience that he and his wife, Rose Edith, had in Egypt in 1904.[4] By his account, a possibly non-corporeal or "praeterhuman" being that called itself Aiwass contacted him and dictated a text known as The Book of the Law or Liber AL vel Legis, which outlined the principles of Thelema.[5] An adherent of Thelema is a Thelemite.

also:

The word θέλημα (thelema) is rare in classical Greek, where it "signifies the appetitive will: desire, sometimes even sexual",[10] but it is frequent in the Septuagint.[10] Early Christian writings occasionally use the word to refer to the human will,[11] and even the will of God's opponent, the Devil,[12] but it usually refers to the will of God.

Oops, a little confusion with God and Devil here......again.

What is this post doing in this thread?

If one is to do what they will, one will want to act in a way that does not produce effects/results that are unwanted. This statement presupposes a 'right-hand' path.

Now the 'law' Crowley refers to what he calls Thelemic law. However, one can see how this 'law' is but another form of the 'law' of attraction, IMO. One will attract what they vibrate with and vibrate to. Especially once one attunes their consciousness with it and create greater coherent patterns, if disciplined enough.

The practice of going within for the purpose of knowing thyself, helps one clear out 'patterns' that emit a constant subconscious stream of creation into our personal world.

The second statement, Love is the law, love under will. The first part appears self explanatory to me. The second one would appear to be his way of according will a superior position based on its chakric placement above the heart chakra. There is validity to this.

Meaningless to those who have not put time into understanding the subtle anatomy. Crowley was not looking for mass appeal.

Did Crowley, 'know himself'? Not enough to prevent him dying a heroin addict. The path he chose was for him to decide.

It is for all of us to decide.

BabaRa
9th February 2014, 00:57
I loved all the Seth books, but never heard of The Nature of Personal Reality.. Shall look it up.

As to your question: Know Thyself-Trite Answer or Required Work? Definitely required work, the only thing we get to chose is when we decide to take the journey. I would say, the sooner, the better - as it makes life much more pleasant in the understanding.

Tribe
9th February 2014, 01:02
i have had to get rid of my mothers , fathers and societys words and thoughts to start to discover what i actually feel about any given situation , i had quite a menagerie of people going on inside my head that it was begining to feel like finding a needle in a haystack to even begin to find myself! I am on this quest at the momment in a bid to self heal! x

ronin
9th February 2014, 01:09
was Aleister Crowley a freemason?
the reason i ask is where did he get his knowledge?
it does not just come to a seeker.
he was taught this.

i,m not sure if he should be in the realm as einstein or tesla but they both claimed that their knowledge came from outside sources.

Seikou-Kishi
9th February 2014, 01:09
Perhaps it is both. In the mouth of the trite or in the ear of the trite, it must be trite.

ronin
9th February 2014, 01:11
Perhaps it is both. In the mouth of the trite or in the ear of the trite, it must be trite.


have you got a lisp Seikou san.

modwiz
9th February 2014, 01:13
was Aleister Crowley a freemason?
the reason i ask is where did he get his knowledge?
it does not just come to a seeker.
he was taught this.

i,m not sure if he should be in the realm as einstein or tesla but they both claimed that their knowledge came from outside sources.

For me Tesla towers above them. He chose service to others and was allowed to eke out an existence in a NYC hotel where he may have been 'dispatched'. His genius is only hinted at. He could have been rich and famous. He declined his 'offer'.

modwiz
9th February 2014, 01:14
Perhaps it is both. In the mouth of the trite or in the ear of the trite, it must be trite.

An eloquent equation. It is provable as well.

Seikou-Kishi
9th February 2014, 01:16
have you got a lisp Seikou san.

Perhapth I have :P

ronin
9th February 2014, 01:18
For me Tesla towers above them. He chose service to others and was allowed to eke out an existence in a NYC hotel where he may have been 'dispatched'. His genius is only hinted at. He could have been rich and famous. He declined his 'offer'.

and we are using his technology today.
it is very sad that this man was underestimated because he was a sto.

the sts people(goverments) gave up what he had to offer for obvious reasons.

another will come along one day offering their insights.
lets hope we take notice next time.

modwiz
9th February 2014, 01:53
Here is link to a pdf of the Hidden Hand material. A must read for a sober discussion of a particular topic. The sincerity of the Luciferic representative is indicative of a spiritual being. Like the other 'insider' there are times where some serious concern is expressed about erring in divulging too much. I believe this fear is human generated or indicative of the gravitas of their mission.
Perhaps both. It strips away opacity and gives a view of a cosmic dance with the blessings of The One. This material gives rhyme and reason to this concept.

It separates the real Venusians from the goofballs and clueless. Other more serious types have their inspiration from other sectors or tangential relation to the orthodox.

http://gonzoj.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/dialoguewithhiddenhand-wespenre.pdf

Calabash
9th February 2014, 19:33
It's interesting that the Seth books are channelled and yet both here on TOTand on PA the channelled threads come with a disclaimer. Nevertheless they are the first "alternative" books I ever read, given to me by my father many years ago. They are books to be read over and over.

Crowley was repulsive in the same way as Jimmy Savile because he was evil and sacrificed animals and human beings (it is said). A sacrifice is only acceptable if it's yourself (as in selling your own soul to the devil). Anything else is unacceptable imo. However, going by appearances, whatever he attracted did not seem to make him happy.

Edit: I see the thread has moved on and I am far behind - apols :) - please ignore

modwiz
9th February 2014, 19:53
It's interesting that the Seth books are channelled and yet both here on TOTand on PA the channelled threads come with a disclaimer. Nevertheless they are the first "alternative" books I ever read, given to me by my father many years ago. They are books to be read over and over.

Crowley was repulsive in the same way as Jimmy Savile because he was evil and sacrificed animals and human beings (it is said). A sacrifice is only acceptable if it's yourself (as in selling your own soul to the devil). Anything else is unacceptable imo. However, going by appearances, whatever he attracted did not seem to make him happy.

Edit: I see the thread has moved on and I am far behind - apols :) - please ignore

Not a fan of Crowley. Accept baby, discard most bathwater. It's his system.

This thread did not move on. The OP will always pertain.:D

If all channeling was as high quality, consistent and useful as the Seth books are, it would not be hidden away as the embarrassment much of it is. The Seth books stand as the best modern metaphysical books available. The reading requires focus and working with the new concepts. Fortunately for new readers many of the concepts will be familiar. These books fill these concepts in with a scientific precision. Some of his books have exercises in them. I believe it is these earlier ones.

BabaRa
9th February 2014, 20:11
Not a fan of Crowley. Accept baby, discard most bathwater. It's his system.

This thread did not move on. The OP will always pertain.:D

If all channeling was as high quality, consistent and useful as the Seth books are, it would not be hidden away as the embarrassment much of it is. The Seth books stand as the best modern metaphysical books available. The reading requires focus and working with the new concepts. Fortunately for new readers many of the concepts will be familiar. These books fill these concepts in with a scientific precision. Some of his books have exercises in them. I believe it is these earlier ones.


My (current) perspective: Who knows where any ideas/concepts come from. I suspect they are all channeling of sorts; perhaps the difference is: what channels one is tuned into. Then the ideas come through the filter and intentions of the receiver.

IMO there is no difference between religion, new-age, politics, philosophers, scientists, etc., Many good-intented, many charlatans in all fields - some lead to wrong places but with right intentions. It's a grab bag of information. That is why one should use inner guidance to decipher .


P.S. I have taken more than one wrong road in my lifetime. I look at them as detours where sometimes I have found the most beautiful scenery and interesting people; where, if I had taken the direct route, might have missed. Faster isn't always better. Conversely, some detours have turned out to be one hell of a bumpy ride; but I survived and learned.

ronin
9th February 2014, 21:16
it is said that when a new invention comes along.
there may be as many as 5 people across the globe working on that notion.
it could be said the information is given to us when we are ready and whoever can tune into that info will be the founder.

cannot quite remember where i heard this sorry.

Fred Steeves
9th February 2014, 21:42
The law of Thelema is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Love is the law, love under will."

Rad, wasn't at least part of that quote from an already pre-existing doctrine saying exactly the opposite, and that Crowley reversed it to "love under will"? Not entirely sure about that, but either way I think this point is key to anyone delving into this stuff in the very slightest. To me anyway, it should most definitely be: "Love is the law, will under love". If I'm not sadly mistaken here, to reverse that is an open invitation to ultimate tyranny.

Thoughts on that?


Fred

Calabash
9th February 2014, 21:50
Yes, I heard something similar ronin, to the effect that we were all like bicycle spokes, joined at the hub (to the universal subconscious) and we all tapped into ideas that were floating around at random and never actually had one of our own. Maybe for eureka moments, but usually we arrive at ideas from a series of deductionss. But then I also heard that nothing is random either and this is where I start losing the plot. Perhaps this is what modwiz means when he says "know thyself", meaning know thyself and therefore know everything else . . . .?

I'm reading the "Hidden Hand" stuff - back soon . . . .

modwiz
9th February 2014, 21:59
Rad, wasn't at least part of that quote from an already pre-existing doctrine saying exactly the opposite, and that Crowley reversed it to "love under will"? Not entirely sure about that, but either way I think this point is key to anyone delving into this stuff in the very slightest. To me anyway, it should most definitely be: "Love is the law, will under love". If I'm not sadly mistaken here, to reverse that is an open invitation to ultimate tyranny.

Thoughts on that?


Fred

I plan no depth to Crowley's work. It is not my path.

Agape is a state of Being and is effectively neutral. It is Will that moves things along the energetic wave that Agape provides.

However, Will without Agape leads to the willful tyranny you correctly see in regard to Will operating in isolation. The energies represented by the chakras are a whole system and use of all of them, as situations require, is proper function.

As long as one has a body, a well functioning root chakra is crucial. It is our energetic foundation.

I agree that Will is not above Love in any way that is helpful with current understanding.

My thoughts only. Not a form of answer.

It is still my day off and the white tea with melon is delicious and fragrant.

ronin
9th February 2014, 22:01
the words know thyself i took literally.
i started to peel away who i thought i was.

first was my name,cast it aside as it was a given name.
then my belongings and what the world said i was.

what i came up with is mind.

but even then there may be more to it than just mind.

true Calabash it does get confusing:h5:

modwiz
9th February 2014, 22:12
To know thyself provides one with what is known and what is not known. Both do well when they are dynamic and not dogmatic in 'nature'. Dynamic systems always operate close to 'real time' and respond to shifting of data. Dogmatic systems encode more deeply and may need a password to re-access.

Sometimes we forget the password.:p

If we have known and unknown well sorted, confusion will be kept to a minimum.

To be confused about what we know makes no sense. Neither does confusion about what we do not know.

Everybody. Give yourself a break and enjoy the process.

modwiz
9th February 2014, 22:16
Yes, I heard something similar ronin, to the effect that we were all like bicycle spokes, joined at the hub (to the universal subconscious)

This is very useful imagery.

ronin
9th February 2014, 22:31
this is not the first time i have heard or been asked for a code or password?

so close but so far!

Fred Steeves
10th February 2014, 13:02
the words know thyself i took literally.
i started to peel away who i thought i was.

first was my name,cast it aside as it was a given name.
then my belongings and what the world said i was.

what i came up with is mind.

but even then there may be more to it than just mind.

true Calabash it does get confusing:h5:

What I've discovered ronin, is that the very moment something like this, and *especially* something like this is labeled, it has also become necessarily limited to that label. And what's more, suppose that label is incorrect in the first place? :fpalm: Hey, it happens LOL...

To my (current) thinking, it's best in this case to leave the labeling and the figuring out behind, and simply notice what I notice as the experience continues to unfold. Allowance is key.



Cheers,


Fred

BabaRa
10th February 2014, 17:35
To my (current) thinking, it's best in this case to leave the labeling and the figuring out behind, and simply notice what I notice as the experience continues to unfold. Allowance is key.

Cheers,
Fred


I agree, and perfectly said I might add.

It seems every label puts a thought/idea in a box which then confines it, keeps it from growing and expanding.


And, I'll repost this good advice from the wizard:

modwiz
To be confused about what we know makes no sense. Neither does confusion about what we do not know.

Everybody. Give yourself a break and enjoy the process.

Calabash
20th February 2014, 04:44
Since last posting here, the idea that it’s all about frequencies keeps coming to the fore. The key is the brain’s ability to “tune in” to any particular frequency. The answers to anything and everything should be simple enough to be within everyone’s grasp and not exclusive to those with higher abilities and frequencies cover everything and connect everything too.

Continuing that train of thought, it’s amazing how much is frequency-based. For instance, the frequencies of music and how they affect our moods has been well documented on the forum – then there’s meditation, sleep, mind-altering drugs, etc. and could also explain why somebody has the ability to excel at maths, english or art. Is it just that those individuals are better tuned in to that particular frequency? Further along the band width would be abductions, mediums /channelling, lucid dreaming, etc. Just about everything can be linked to frequencies. Even having a cold could be likened to having a frequency low enough to catch it.