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Eelco
24th January 2014, 05:32
and today its......

What is the importance of practice in aquiring the skill set that enables one to be Awake.

With love
Eelco

Cearna
24th January 2014, 07:18
I'm not good at doing that, it's too boring, and I'm and Aries, I find it best if I just get stuck into whatever I take on, do it until I find myself going on to something else. I often have no idea whether it is myself or my HS sending me on or what (doesn't seem to matter), but his idea has always seemed to be don't get stuck into some particular ritualised form of learning, I just seem to find myself living it, then I learn, and if that is being awake then that is what I do to get there. This seems to be just as hard to do as learning some process and getting there that way - once again, to each his own. And- once again we get to the process as and when we are ready, it needs to feel right as far as I see it, if it feels right do - if not don't, thinking about it and learning a process, well I can make plenty of mistakes on my own, and if I don't wake up after it, then I haven't used my "noddle" too:holysheep: well have I?:cracky:

modwiz
24th January 2014, 07:25
and today its......

What is the importance of practice in aquiring the skill set that enables one to be Awake.

With love
Eelco

Practice is very important for any skill. Crucial, if one is to become very skilled.

Sooz
24th January 2014, 07:39
Take from it what you want:

http://www.zensydney.com/_icp/why.practice/

modwiz
24th January 2014, 07:45
Take from it what you want:

http://www.zensydney.com/_icp/why.practice/

I'll take a pass.:p
(In case you're missing the snark)

Mark
24th January 2014, 10:07
It's everything, which is precisely why the vast majority of us are constantly kept distracted.

Without constant effort and vigilance you just slip back into slumber, I know this very too well I'm afraid :-(

lookbeyond
24th January 2014, 10:16
Hi Eelco, good question and one i should put to myself every day, for me mindfulness can go out the window pretty quickly when my children are arguing, it is a struggle to remember what i should, when i should..lb

Tonz
24th January 2014, 12:16
One would practice to achieve the skill set to beguin to awaken,in order to see.you could just stay blind and pretend that you are fulfilled.
One can use their grate power of choice ,or one may choose not to.
but the confusion is the practice part.
How well would you like to play that violin?

Sooz
24th January 2014, 12:40
These are not my words, taken from a website:

'If we take this to heart and look into our own experience it is an endless source of motivation in every moment of our everyday lives. I can walk down to the corner store in two different ways. In the first way I can be thinking of all the things I have to do that day, little irritations about this and that, caught up in my own little bubble of thinking and being completely oblivious to my moment to moment experience - or I can walk down to the corner store being present to the act of walking, seeing the trees and gardens and acknowledging other people as they pass by, hearing the sounds of birds and traffic. I know which one is the most fulfilling and satisfying.

I don't need to keep reading about it in a book or have some else tell me.

I ask myself, do I want to waste my precious human life thinking petty thoughts? Do I want to waste my precious human life being stingy, or impatient, or critical of others?

The motivational shift from self-centred delusion to the Awakened Life is there in one moment.

PurpleLama
24th January 2014, 12:46
more than practice and the development of skill, one must be ruthless in the pursuit of self examination.

if one tends to back away from the monstrosities in the dark, preferring the safety of the light, little progress can be made. learning to accept what darkness is contained in the deepest depths of psyche, in facing these monsters then one will receive the treasures they cover and guard. the strength one gaines in a process such as this, the greatest of demons will cower and flee before it.

another aspect of this strength i am pointing at is the ability to feel compassion for the meanest and most misguided of creatures.

Fred Steeves
24th January 2014, 13:07
more than practice and the development of skill, one must be ruthless in the pursuit of self examination.


Absolutely, I've always liked how Don Juan (whether real or not) put it: "Stalking".

Spiral
24th January 2014, 16:28
and today its......

What is the importance of practice in aquiring the skill set that enables one to be Awake.

With love
Eelco

Heres my 2 cents, practice is important because it brings things to a point where they are automatic, musicians don't practice scales so they can perform scales, but to "program" themselves, & that is where the skill is, being able to create a state of being wherein the desired nature is just "there", awareness is something that is just "there", although its tempting to stick the crayon back up the nose sometimes lol.

ronin
24th January 2014, 16:57
and today its......

What is the importance of practice in aquiring the skill set that enables one to be Awake.

With love
Eelco


depends on what level you are comfortable with.

to be a seeker of the truth,there can be no truth,for there would be no seeker.

those rabbit holes go deep

or more importantly what do you consider to be awake?

BabaRa
24th January 2014, 17:07
I ask myself, do I want to waste my precious human life thinking petty thoughts? Do I want to waste my precious human life being stingy, or impatient, or critical of others?

The motivational shift from self-centred delusion to the Awakened Life is there in one moment.[/I]

Love that, thank you, Sooz

I will only add that usually, for most, that moment only comes after years of practice. So practice of the awareness of when one is being self-centered.




From Spiral:. . . musicians don't practice scales so they can perform scales, but to "program" themselves, & that is where the skill is, being able to create a state of being wherein the desired nature is just "there",


I remember the great violinist Isaac Stern when asked how much he practices commented: I practice every day. If I miss one day a week, I can tell the difference. If I miss 2 days a week my wife can tell the difference. If I miss 3 days a week, the world can tell the difference.

ronin
24th January 2014, 17:12
I will only add that usually, for most, that moment only comes after years of practice. So practice of the awareness of when one is being self-centered.

is that a sts or sto statement?

Eelco
24th January 2014, 19:08
Thank you all for your answers.

I will take them all into considiration.
For now I am leaning towards the idea that practice is everything.
The kicker for me is the concept of being awake.

Just that simple word can mean so manny things on so manny levels. That is seems impossible to answer the question without clarifying what being awake is and even then the understanding of what it is seems to change. Well it has for me over the years many times.

So in this regard I like to use an analogy that Jack Kornfield uses a lot in his talks.
the awake part is knowing the bodily sensations and the mental knowing of these sensations.
vipassana meditation in other words.
The practise would be a slight focus on a spot where you feel the breath and the realization of its direction. inwards or outwards. long breath or short breath.

When sitting and trying to keep focused I (like many people) found that staying with just the breath is not an easy task as the mind tends to wander and forget about the breath in favor of what happens to catch its attention.

the analogy is that of the training of a puppy. when you are teaching it to stay on his blanket.
At first it wil stay for only a few seconds. and when its off you go get him/her put it back on the blanket and ask/tell it to stay.
This can go on for quite a while, but eventually the puppy will stay through practise.

So thats one way of looking at it others may say who cares if the puppy runs off all the time. Its cute and he/she should not be trained to stay in one spot.

Just a few initial ramblings...

With Love
Eelco

Eelco
24th January 2014, 19:20
I think learning to discern the difference between what do I want and what do I need is one to practice.
That is to really see and know that subtle difference.

The difference between what is real and what is fantasy is another. in order to persue attainable goals instead of unrealistic ones. ENLIGHTENMENT anyone? talk about a concept subject to change and susseptable to fantasy.

With Love
Eelco

Eelco
25th January 2014, 04:59
Ok this is not as simple a question as I thought.

So its defenition time.
Todays question:

What is Being Awake.

I'd like to get a broad set of viewpoints so we get to know what each of us understand awake to be.
Will share my thoughts at the end of the day.

With Love
Eelco

PurpleLama
25th January 2014, 11:51
@fred, I like the term stalking, too, which is funny 'cause I never read much Castaneda.

@eelco, If following the breath ain't working too good for you, try instead just relaxing first with about a half dozen long, slow, deep breaths, then take your attention out to the extremeties, fingers and toes and such, one limb at a time, feel your toes then move slowly up your leg until you get to your trunk, consciously relaxing and do it for all 4 limbs, then focus on your breath again for a bit, and make your breath go lower and lower, follow the sensation of breath down and down and down, lower and lower, eventually you will find your breath going all the way into the perineum(sp?) where it makes a slow curve to come back up. From that point you keep your attention in the bottom of the guts, you will find all these litte tiny knots of tension, and you relax those just like you did your arms and legs. Its good to relax the extremeties first, then get the full loop of the breath, before relaxing the micro tensions in the abdomen, but after a week of daily practice those will happen faster and faster, so you can get straight on to the fun part. While you are in the abdomen, try to pay attention to your physical sensations as much as possible, and you may find all kinds of memories spontaneously arising, it is important to be passive with these, do not suppress, just acknowledge and continue relaxing the tension you were working on when the memory arose while letting the memory just be. Its important, because there was an emotion suppressed, and possibly the attached memory too, for every little knot you might find down there, and this technique has the immediate purpose of finding and releasing your own energy you lost in yourself, similar to what a shaman would do in a soul retrieval. As a meditation, it gives the mind something to do, rather than it being ignored, so with very little practice it will play right along rather than getting bored and seeking to distract you.

Eelco
25th January 2014, 13:44
hmmm I guess my answer will have to wait.
One of my presents is goin to the movies tonight.
Devils due I think is the feature.

Will be my first horror movie in a theatre ever.

With Love
Eelco

Moonlight
25th January 2014, 14:30
I practice compassion. I have contemplated what being awake meant for a while and came to the conclusion that it was of no importance to me. It only contributes to the illusion of separation which brings so much sorrow and pain into our world, a form of categorization if you will.

Maybe I’m sound asleep, but I get to choose my dreams.

“If you want others to be happy, Practice Compassion. If you want to be happy, Practice Compassion.”
Dalai Lama

P.S. Have a great night out Eelco... Happy Birthday!

BabaRa
25th January 2014, 17:07
I practice compassion. I have contemplated what being awake meant for a while and came to the conclusion that it was of no importance to me. It only contributes to the illusion of separation which brings so much sorrow and pain into our world, a form of categorization if you will.

Maybe I’m sound asleep, but I get to choose my dreams.

“If you want others to be happy, Practice Compassion. If you want to be happy, Practice Compassion.”
Dalai Lama

P.S. Have a great night out Eelco... Happy Birthday!

I love your post Moonlight, thank you for that.

IMO, we make it too hard. Relax, Enjoy . . . and then simply recognize you are more than your body and it's 5 senses.

Meditation can be a good practice, but not for everybody and not the only way. If it's not coming naturally after trying many times and ways without success (as it seems you have), perhaps your puppy needs to explore. Who says the puppy has to stay on the blanket. Just one more belief system.

Eelco
26th January 2014, 06:14
quick review..
Devil's due is NOT one to watch. slow, and not engaging anyware.
And it soesn't get passed the Bechdel test either i.m.o.

PurpleLama - Thanks for your relaxation exercise. I will use it one of these days..

Moonlight - Thank you so much. every time i feel I have a grip on most angle's there's always one that I didn't think of. Dream your dreams. I've said in the past that imagination is everything (imagination being very very different than fantasy btw) so the dreamt life is as real and powerfull as the real thing. If there even is a difference between them.

Babara - I know what you mean. This puppy however has been exploring and running and jumping around for the longest time. It's time to take it slow for a (longer) while. Stay on the rug and just be for a while. Meditation is just looking at now yes? And in my experience it is getting more comfortable over time.. so it is a skill that can be deceloped with practice. The exploring puppy can learn so much, but this puppy seems to forget to take the time to relax and be more often than not. Which is draining energy and not especially conductive for a positive mood.

So Awake.
The simple defenition in my mind is that the awakened one is conscious of himself in this moment, meaning he sees reality as it is and knows which causes have led to the perception he has of his experience of this now.

Seeing reality as it is is a tricky one, because i think every one sort of feels they know the truth of their reality. And in a way the do. As the knowing the feel they know colours their perception of the reality of this moment. Is that being Awake? (not sure yet, doesn't feel like it).

So causality... its tempting to acknowledge patterns you percieve in terms of cause and effect. say a very strong childhood experience that you feel is shaping the way you react today..Its helpfull too as from there one can start a process if you like to change the reaction if you want. giving it an anchor in the past for comparrison. However is that really whay happens? i feel reality suggests that NOW at every moment is new/fresh and the reactions/feelings and even memories arise and pass away on their own accord. When looking for the pattern I am only seeing the moments of now that I percieved as similar and miss all the ones that were simmilar, but not percieved as such because my mind was focussed on another part of reality..

Perception as most here now. is rarely raw and true, but mostly filled and shaped with our expectations, our understanding, and conceptualized instead of just the perception of Now.

WIth Love
Eelco
(who keeps the right to change his mind about this from moment to moment)

Cearna
9th February 2014, 02:48
My question for today is about Uselessness

At one time in a class learning to Tarot read some one brought in a Set of Buddhist cards for use in meditation. We all chose one - the one I chose was on uselessness. The piccy was of Buddha sitting under a huge, beautiful tree - the story behind it was that originally this space was a forest of all kinds of trees, man had come along and cut all but this particular tree down. They hadn't touched this tree, because it was useless for any of our particular needs, too hard to chop, to knotted to carve into something, that sort of thing, so it was left alone for hundreds of years and grew into this big beautiful tree that gave shade to the weary.

I almost burst into huge laughter when I saw it, because that was what my family were always saying about me.
- Don't get Colleen to cook, she's useless, stops watching it to read her book and everything ends up burnt.
- don't let Colleen start another of her hair brained projects, she will get half way through , it will be a mess and well either have to throw it out, or be called in to fix it up.
-it's no use asking Colleen to do anything about the house, she'll mess it up or stop to read her book.
-most particularly its useless expecting anything from her
Got the idea?
Soooo - I had to work hard on this, but I still keep hearing about the chaotic way I do thing, no order, and no comfort for my other half who is the opposite to me.

What do you think about uselessness?

modwiz
9th February 2014, 02:54
Others perception of us is useless.:ha:

Sooz
9th February 2014, 03:17
Others perception of us is useless.:ha:

What others think of me is none of my business.

I'm working on that one:tiphat:

Eelco
9th February 2014, 03:23
Hi cearna,

I am not sure what you are asking.
Your buddha story already hints at the fact that useless tree's do not exist.

The personal story is about how others think its useless to ask you anything, because wou've made it clear you would rather read your book.
Whats useless about that, apart from it being somebodies emotional response to what you are showing in behaviour.

Uselessness in my opinion is warmongering politicians.
but again that just my emotional responce to the behaviour that useless piece of s*** is showing us.

I gues that is useless. the emotional responce of uselessness. Because all it does it seems is hurt.. or incapacitates itself to go deeper, as this responce masks the deeper emotional truths of either anger or dissapointment.

WIth Love
Eelco
goodmorning btw. just woke up 20 minutes ago

Cearna
10th February 2014, 01:42
Hi cearna,

[QUOTE]I am not sure what you are asking.

Well, I suppose, some of it is about the fact that people make judgement on others, especially in your family, these judgements are made when you are young, for me it was a time that all I ever wanted to do was read books, and in a way it worked out the way the story said, they decided it was useless to try to get me to do anything else, so I was left alone to read my books and not get asked to do anything else - so a good result for me at the time. Later on though that same idea got tranferred to other judgements by my sister, on how she could live her life. The story then became

-I'm good teacher, but your not, I,m dedicated but your'e not.
-You've got brains but I'm so much brainier than you.

These things were said over and over again, and, I was stupid enough to believe her. So much so that until later on I was afraid to try to do something well, no one expected me too, and I got along just fine, but never knew to what heights I might be able to achieve, because her brainwashing on uselessness made me afraid that if just once I tried and found I was what she said, then what was I going to do. Imagine someone telling this to your really bright children somewhere at their school or within the family, what might it have done to their wondrous IQ. These sayings hurt, and hurt a great deal, so much so that when I was 21, I crawled into bed besides my father and cried and cried, because I could never be as good as she was.
The personal story is about how others think its useless to ask you anything, because wou've made it clear you would rather read your book.

Whats useless about that, apart from it being somebodies emotional response to what you are showing in behaviour.


Uselessness in my opinion is warmongering politicians.
but again that just my emotional response to the behaviour that useless piece of s*** is showing us.

And this too and so many of the other things we are upset about now, and so we should be because the PTB believe this is what we are. They believe we are incapable of being able to look after ourselves, so their only way is to control un within an inch of our lives, and take away as many benefits as possible from those such as the aged and infirm, whom to them obviously we are living useless lives now. I'm saying this because I live on a Govt. pension and there are many in OZ who care for people such as myself, not capable of doing something like shopping and many other things, but we still exist and are not useless. We have a system whereby those who now cannot get a job because here many employers believe that after 35 years old, you should be sacked and they find themselves unemployable, so the Govt allows them to work 20 hours a week in voluntary service and then they pay them the Dole without asking them to continually go through a series of rejections for job.


I guess that is useless. the emotional response of uselessness. Because all it does it seems is hurt.. or incapacitates itself to go deeper, as this response masks the deeper emotional truths of either anger or disapointment.

Exactly Eelco, it hurts, disappoints, and incapacitates many. Think of all the young people, who in days gone by could feel good about themselves because at 15 they went off into the workforce, were good people raised good families and were happy to live as they were. Now you need to go on to higher education. The jobs they used to fill are now being filled by University students, trying to pay off large loans and still eat and pass their exams, and then go out to find someone else got better results than they did and they even more feel the stigma then being attached to them. These are jsut a few of the categories of people now being classed as useless in society.

I eventually decided, I wasn't what I had been told, I had one teacher in my entire time at school, who told me she believed I was capable of doing better, and would I try for her. The yearly exam after that I put a lot more effort in than usual and went up 16 places in the A class I was in at a selective high School, where no one was accepted there unless over a certain IQ level.

Even later still in my Saturn return time, I went to study a course which would give me higher wages and greater status than before . There were 10 Home Science teachers doing the course and I was the only one not a College lecturer or Head Teacher of the subject, they knew their subject matter and it scared me silly, especially, when at the first lecture given we were told only one-third of the group would pass the entire course which was to take 3 years and wouldn't be repeated again. I was transferred 3 times during that year to schools outside the area, and it was only by a greta deal of luck I was allowed to do the four exams the others had done in the next year, so they allowed me to continue. One exam - nutrition I spent months preparing for, and thought I had done really well, until I saw the marks. The top mark was 52%, I got 51 1/2% and some one else was allowed to do a post. As it happened we were the only 3 to pass all the exams, just as they predicted at the beginning. Such a good thing to boost my morale. Even better, when later I joined the Correspondence School and my head teacher was one of those who failed that exam. she had to go to London to get a degree in Nutrition in order to overcome not passing that exam. Because she knew how hard it was to pass that exam, and she had gone to the same school I had, she told me many times later, that from a staff of 16 we two were the only ones of a certain standard, she alone had in her mind. So I felt better, but it was because of not knowing how to study, (because of my uselessness) that it for once worked for me, I had to achieve this time, in the same way that that tree stayed on and on. Make more sense to you now as to why I asked this question.

There are just so many things people call useless, yet often people of my generation will save and hold onto, in case they might come in handy one day, whereas my husband cannot believe there is a need to hold on to such a useless thing, till he wants something, then I produce it from its storage place. So much for the throwaway ssociety, we had nothing so you held on to what you had - in case. Just another way of looking at uselessness. Oh I wish You could stil buy toasters that you can fix instead of the never ending stream of broken ones I have to throw out.

That's enough for now. I have a mouse that keeps playing up on me and locking me out :ireful: :frantic: Haven't put up mutch since this started happening.

Chickadee
10th February 2014, 01:57
Hi Eelco, good question and one i should put to myself every day, for me mindfulness can go out the window pretty quickly when my children are arguing, it is a struggle to remember what i should, when i should..lb

Children fighting is awful!!! It makes my eye twitch. But- its very good that they learn this while young.. I noticed when my youngest two were young , that they fight out of animal instinct.. Acting very much like young vicious cubs to defend themselves.
Anyways, it's hard- but once you can disconnect yourself from hearing, listening or having to part of your children fighting- wow!!! Ah, ya.. I can only do it for maybe a minute because it makes my skin crawl. My husband tells me to put ear buds in and only react if one is bleeding or dead or until they get through it themselves.
Children are strange- they can be killing each other one second and embracing each other the next.
People who have children, especially more than one are really truly blessed to see and be part of this.. And those who aren't- consider yourselves blessed as well, because mother of Mary
!!!....

I remember reading Elkhart Tolle years ago-
He said something along the lines of "it's not always about finding stillness in quiet.. It's about being quiet and finding stillness in the noise"

Ok- now I'll continue on reading through the thread..

Chickadee
10th February 2014, 02:23
Ok this is not as simple a question as I thought.

So its defenition time.
Todays question:

What is Being Awake.

I'd like to get a broad set of viewpoints so we get to know what each of us understand awake to be.
Will share my thoughts at the end of the day.

With Love
Eelco

Marvellous Eelco!!

Yes, what exactly is being "awake"..
Is it one being conscious of all our body parts and actually feeling them?
Is it being an empath? And feeling others?
Is it knowing there is more to ourselves than our bodies?
Is it knowing we have many bodies and many lives?
Is it knowing right from wrong? Thou shall not hurt?
Is it... Knowing the 10 commandments ?
Is it knowing its all about perception? And knowing that every religion
Is only a man's perception written down?
Is it seeing spirits? And speaking to the dead?
Seeing, feeling or knowing angels are amongst us?
Is it knowing?
Knowing that, yup... The world is run by a group of people?
That many of those people sell their souls for fame and fortune?
Is it knowing that those people have raped, tortured and murdered those people.. Are those people awakened?
Can a person be vaccinated, on antidepressants or pain meds and be "Awakened"
Can you be a chain smoking, alcoholic, herein, crack smoking,method blowing junkie and "be awakened"?
Can one be a priest? A polition? A hooker?
Do you need to believe in aliens?
Know that pharasudaical companies are bad?
Eat organic? Oppose gmos? Be an environmentalist ?
Oh, how about a high school drop out?
Umm... Do we all need to feel victimized before actually becoming "awakened"?
Do we need to meditate?
Vocalize?
Play music?
Make music!?
See orbs?
Help others?
Make art?
See the art? Feel the art?
See someone on their death bed?
Just knowing.. Knowing we're all connected?
Loving?
Surely a human cannot live with hating.. How else would you know love?
Chemtrails?
Fukashima ?
Ancestry?
Self sustaining,
Grow a garden,
Feed yourself?
Know how to work? To live off the land,
Dig a well, have your own water?
Kill your own meat? Raise your own eggs?
See auras?
Abort?
Adopt?
Build?
Destroy ?
Laugh?
Loathe?
Is there karma?
Farms?
Protect? Defeat?
Define? Complete ?
The mother? The father? The Holy Ghost?
Pray? prey? listen? hear ? summon? provoke?
courage? fear?
A cult? A team?
A host?
Helping those who are weak? Seeing "them"
Telling them?
Pleading to them?
Helping them? Hurting th? Staying? Leaving? Just standing still?
Loving animals? Not liking animals? Loving an being allergic?
Magic?
Stones?
Potions?
Curses?
Affrimations?
Love,
Reality? Fact? Fiction, fantasy?
Dreams, astral travel?
Ancients, mystery?
Murderer?
Rapist?
Horny?
Fag? Lesbo? Both? Neither?
Animals? Children? Psychopath? Canibal?
Starseed? Indigo? Crystal? Autistic, bipolar ... Drugged and enlisted?
See a person in all angst?
In all glory?
Cull?
Create?
Life?
Awakened eh?
What is the definition?

Cause... I can just keep going..
OX

Love, laughter and light- to all of you! XO

Wtf?

Eelco
10th February 2014, 03:33
Well as a race of free choice..
Today i'll pick......

Thanks for the list chickadee

With Love
Eelco

Eelco
10th February 2014, 05:06
Hi Cearna,

So what do you think uselessness is.
To me it seems rather useless. From what I read in your posts all that manifests in relation to uselessnes is self-manipulation into a disabled state.

As a thing it doesn't seem to exist. Only as a reaction to what someone else thinks.
debillatating yes. Once you start to believe the manipulation by someone else.

You were considered useless as a youngster, because you did not live up to the expectations of your siblings.
And (could be wrong here) you did not care enough at that time to make the effort to try did you.

Beeing a lover of books myself. I can see the attraction of loosing myself into a book.
Up to the point where it bothers those I live with. as the act of disapearing into the words on paper usualy involves me not to be aware of my surroundings, do not hear questions that are directed at me unless my wife or kids repeated them 3 times allready and some irritation starts to seep through when they ask that question for the fourth time.

I can see it in one of my daughters too. She just reads and reads. Doesn't seem to care whether her brothers and sisters do all the chores around the house, but complains if the little ones get in the way of her reading with the noise they are making.

From the outside in it feels as though she is disengaging from us and that feels as much as a rejection i guess as me telling her to put her book aside for a second and engage with us as her family.

Its a 2 way street in my view. And maybe the act of calling someone useless sometimes is because of repeated effort to engage with someone and feel rejected time and again?

With Love
Eelco

Eelco
11th February 2014, 09:59
Wow.

Over the last few days a pattern seems to emerge for me about how words, apart from just conveying a concept seem to communicate so much more than just the concept. Finaly it dawns to me how the choice of 1 ill chosen word can create a reality which was not inded by someone using the "ill" chosen word or the people he/she was conversing with.

My use of the word immature for instance in talking about comparing "sheeple" to children. Or even the word sheeple here. Conveys an image that I use to describe a specific use of people. It also sends a message with it I do not believe. Namely that these people are mere sheep. I really don't. WHen I look around and see them, talk to them I am on occasion overwhelmed by compassion for how they struggle through live. At that moment for me anyway. They are Human Beings like me.

Anyway this had me thinking and smoking this morning at the strange dichotomies that tend to occur in conversations. One thing which happens to me a lot in real life is that people tend to not hear what I am saying, but react on some percieved anger i seem to radiate. Until yesterday, i let that with the people percieving me thusly.

Now that SK has so graciously shown how words and the play with words for better or worse. (Venerable for instance now always generates a giggle on my part) can be used in ways I had not yet envisioned. I have some inner work to do regarding my choice of words.

I think I am doing all right in the slower process of using written language, but when it comes to conversations I tend to speak in an ill adviced and less thoughtfull manner that somehow always gets me in these babbelonian conflicts about words.

Just yesterday when having no more arguments to disagree on a workrelated topic. I had to reluctantly agree. Which is fine. I preceeded however to say a few words hoe the topic at hand seemed to play out in my perceptions with various colleagues. Immediatly the tone of the conversation became different and before I knew it I was being accused of becomming very defensive and as lashing out.
Never my intention off course, But it has me thinking... Was it that I said to much? Using wording that i unconsciously charged with a hurtfull meaning?

WIth Love
Eelco
(Happily struggling along trying to make sense of it all)

Cearna
12th February 2014, 07:41
Eelco, in a way that is what I was trying to say about the word uselessness, which I lump in with the words, dummy, stupid, and others similar in meaning, they are connotations easily said, not always intentional to hurt, and very easy to not be fully understood, in that a word such as these, once said, without a bad meaning, begin to become something which can then be meant in many ways, and sure enough someone is going to take offence, or be hurt by not just then, but for a long time, if repeated often enough.

Each person depending from their own experiential background can very easily misunderstand first of all the intent and then the meaning being given to the words at that time, especially if talking to someone who may not be aware of the many interpretations that can be given to the word. From one person, they can be expressing words of love and from someone else it has derogatory intent. Makes it very difficult to live in a society, especially when not as much emphasis is given to the meanings of words. I know when I went to school we were given so many words at a time and for each we had to learn, the spelling, but also the various meanings that could be used for each word. Children especially, tend to live in a world for a while where the most derogatory terms are often used to speak to others in their peer group. Catching and stopping to explain what is going on here, is often not easy for parents. The difficulty comes when there are so many dysfunctional families, for some one from one of these could quite easily be the ones who will not sense the intent behind what you are saying.