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Seikou-Kishi
8th January 2014, 17:38
No justice, no peace.

The verdict on the killing of Mark Duggan was given today. The police's defence rested on the idea that Mark Duggan had a gun and that because of this they felt imperilled. Despite the jury concluding that Mark Duggan didn't have a gun, the police were found not guilty anyway.

The police didn't have to prove that he had a gun, the prosecution had to prove that he didn't. That is guilty until proven innocent. It's disgusting.

Sorry my thoughts are disjointed and this post is not well written. I'm completely at a loss. I'm not shocked at all — we all know that justice is not a goal of the judiciary, and even less so if you're not white. I'm just completely disgusted. Disgusted, disappointed and saddened. And more than a little furious.

It seemed there was no thread on this topic, so I thought I should start one if just for members to express themselves. I hope too that this thread serves to share information to those of our members overseas who may not have heard of this.

No justice, no peace.

Spiral
8th January 2014, 17:44
I am also totally outraged at this complete travesty :ireful:

Although I strongly suspect that there is waaaaaay more to this than a trigger happy cop murdering a man in cold blood because he believed he was armed & getting off scot free even though there are witnesses & video.

Eelco
8th January 2014, 18:01
But But But..

Aren't The pigs ehm cops always right?
Especially the priviliged male white ones?

I had to look up Mark Duggan as it probably has not been main stream news outside of england..
A sad state of affairs indeed..

With Love
Eelco

Calz
8th January 2014, 19:17
Well crap ... hate to get dragged down into this sort of crap ... but hey.

Anyone hear of the new popular thing going on in amerika???


Called the "knock out game" ... where it is becoming common for black youths to make sport of seeing if they can knock an unsuspecting white person (either gender ... any age) unconscious with only a single punch.


Becoming quite widespread.


Won't see much of it in the press as we dare not allow any racial material to be published ...


... as for the cops ...


wow


It is becoming more and more shocking what happens on a near daily basis.


Not suggesting all cops are bad ... but those that are have gone off the charts in proving themselves as such.


Don't feel in the mood to elaborate.

Seikou-Kishi
9th January 2014, 04:08
It's amazing how few people care because it's not in America.

Eelco
9th January 2014, 04:56
As i said a sad state of affairs indeed.
Why would you think its because it's not America?

I feel its because a numming has set in. Either because people are protevting themselves from feeling desperate and powerless. Its hard (for me anyway) to read and cope with what these stories stir up inside to the point they are incapasitating me to function.
Thats why I keep away from main stream news and often alternative news aswell. Everyrime i venture into a time wher I feel i should investigate a little further it rocks my boat so hard i slide into a depressed state that keeps me prisoned for days or weeks on end.

With Love
Eelco

lookbeyond
9th January 2014, 06:33
It's amazing how few people care because it's not in America.

Hey SK i care. I didnt respond because like Eelco, it can get too hard to get caught up in the emotion of this sort of news all the time.Each day i look at mainstream news because i want to "know" whats going on in my country (Australia) and most news stories press the emotion button in me, its so draining if i let it be.Today in Melbourne(a southern state of Aust) a child sat on a seat in a tram and was pricked by multiple syringe needles(more than likely used) which had been hidden in a seat to injure.Now this family needs to await blood results for possible infection of this poor child- a possible life sentence.

The reason i read such "news" is to educate my children on how to protect themselves in this at times hideous world, so if i dont respond to something posted it may simply be that ive bitten off enough to chew for that day!!

Sooz
9th January 2014, 07:54
Well crap ... hate to get dragged down into this sort of crap ... but hey.

Anyone hear of the new popular thing going on in amerika???


Called the "knock out game" ... where it is becoming common for black youths to make sport of seeing if they can knock an unsuspecting white person (either gender ... any age) unconscious with only a single punch.


Becoming quite widespread.


Won't see much of it in the press as we dare not allow any racial material to be published ...


... as for the cops ...


wow


It is becoming more and more shocking what happens on a near daily basis.


Not suggesting all cops are bad ... but those that are have gone off the charts in proving themselves as such.


Don't feel in the mood to elaborate.

Sorry to derail this thread, but I too am very upset about this 'knock out' game going on. Here in Oz it seems not to be about racial stuff. It's just ANYONE is fair game for a coward punch. Landing young men and women in hospital - in a coma. A punch from behind you don't see coming. It's a random event.

Some come out of the coma, some don't.

Some die.

It's fuelled by alcohol mixed with other drugs imo, (Meth and Ice). Heck people have been drinking alcohol since the sun came up and now all this ****?

Feeling your vibe Calz - don't feel in the mood to elaborate either.

I am so glad I live in a rural area. That is not going to save myself and my son I don't think. It always spreads.

Spiral
9th January 2014, 08:28
Sorry to derail this thread, but I too am very upset about this 'knock out' game going on. Here in Oz it seems not to be about racial stuff. It's just ANYONE is fair game for a coward punch. Landing young men and women in hospital - in a coma. A punch from behind you don't see coming. It's a random event.

Some come out of the coma, some don't.

Some die.

It's fuelled by alcohol mixed with other drugs imo, (Meth and Ice). Heck people have been drinking alcohol since the sun came up and now all this ****?

Feeling your vibe Calz - don't feel in the mood to elaborate either.

I am so glad I live in a rural area. That is not going to save myself and my son I don't think. It always spreads.

I have been following this "knockout" thing & haven't posted it here for various reasons, it has been going on in the USA for some time, where young black men try to knock people out,(not always with a punch either) irrespective of their age, sex or race, many people have died, in one instance hundreds of youths ran amock in a shopping mall hitting all & sundry inc the security, it is completely out of hand.

Like most stupid crazes it will inevitably spread. *sigh*

Although what this has to do with the topic is beyond me.

BabaRa
9th January 2014, 18:17
An American Indian Proverb.

Never criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins.

It's challenging to understand anything until you can see it from the other person's perspective and experience. The racial issue in US has always saddened me; and unfortunately, when one side holds hatred it draws the same from the other side.

Eelco
9th January 2014, 18:25
So a thread was started on an injustice in england. A biggie I might add. after some silence a statement wat made that possibly it was because the injustice wasn't an american affair. And then we started talking about the new american thing of knocking people in the head for no reason.
Am I alone in finding that strange?

I could be overlooking a not so obvious link between the two though. In which case i'm sorry for blabbering nonsence

With love
Eelco

Church
9th January 2014, 18:31
^ No, you are not. This thread is all over the place. :tea:

Spiral
9th January 2014, 19:06
Mark Duggan's Aunt: 'Shocked And Bewildered'


http://youtu.be/txThTVY7b00

Maybe they want more riots, (Boris has just bought a new water cannon) they would certainly spur the middle class to demand / accept another big push towards a police state.

Seeing as Boris has just fired 550 firemen & closed 10 firestations in London any large riots would certainly look dramatic on the TV with such a reduced number of firefighters.

(Boris is the mayor of greater London)

Seikou-Kishi
9th January 2014, 23:27
It's not a silence thing, Eelco. I just wonder how many Americans had even heard of it before I mentioned it. An American tragedy and the whole world knows, but there's an insular and provincial attitude that says if it happens anywhere else, it's not important. It's not an outright disdain, just no response at all. Find me a British person who hasn't heard of Trayvon Martin. Now find me an American person who has heard of Mark Duggan. Like I said, all one way.

In any case, I suspect you're right, Spiral, that they want more riots. It's probably also not a coincidence that the inquest verdict came just as the government were pushing forward their new IPNA ("Injunctions to Prevent Nuisance and Annoyance", personally-tailored laws that can stop almost anybody doing almost anything). You know, the same day that the verdict came out the Metropolitan Police actually asked people to vote on what they thought was the Met's bravest act of policing for the year... arrogant sods.

Chickadee
10th January 2014, 03:28
There was a case last year in the US , kinda same line of bull.
That aside,
It's REALLY hard to win against law enforcement ..
I'm not derailing here,
But
My dad was beaten over the head by an RC..
Badly..
Wrong time - wrong place..
Hard to beat the system, we lost..

It's good that cops now have cameras in their cars to capture some of this BS

It takes a certain person to be a cop..

Need I say anymore,

But-----
Thank heavens for law enforcement too.. Not all of us have vigil antis to to help us.
I'm grateful though to the men and women who do serve and protect-
I've even got some in my family..

That being said- it takes a certain someone..
And they ain't looking for normal folk.
They want short tempered, straight and arrow folk...
Not to protect, but to serve.

*sigh* ...
It's a mad mad world.
Thanks Ollie, I'll be reading up on this story now :)

Eelco
10th January 2014, 04:39
Find me a British person who hasn't heard of Trayvon Martin. Now find me an American person who has heard of Mark Duggan. Like I said, all one way.


Who's Trayvon? Then again I'm Dutch so I don't care period..

WIth Love
Eelco

Chickadee
10th January 2014, 04:55
Who's Trayvon? Then again I'm Dutch so I don't care period..

WIth Love
Eelco

This is the case in the US I spoke about in my post. It's sad you don't care period..
This man shot and killed an innocent boy who had nothing more than a package of skittles in his pocket.

Another black child killed and murderer claimed innocent through the broken court of law.

This man, who killed him obviously abused this young teen, and felt threatened that he was going to tell the truth. The man accused is a pervert. He abused this boy and was afraid of the truth coming out. He killed him in cold blood.

And, got away with it..
Sadder than the crime itself, is the walk to fame this man who murdered him is now selling his art wort in USA for up to $150 thousand dollars ...

Not to mention the assaults he's had after the trail..

Like Ollie said, it's a white man's world .

Crap like these people, is why why I don't consider myself "white"..
I
May look it, but ashamed of it... And well, I'm not not. F'n crackers!!!
Same ****~ different pile... Or maybe not, eh?

Just a note Eelco... If you don't care period... Why do you ask?
I'm just wondering ... I'm native Canadian, French, welsh, norse, Ukrainian, polish & chechloslavic...
But maybe that's right, if I was maybe Dutch, maybe I just wouldn't care either... Gawd I wish I was Dutch

Much love,

A cheeky bird XO :)

Eelco
10th January 2014, 05:15
It's sad you don't care period..


It is isn't it, luckily it isn't a true statement.
As I guess is the same for many people who just can't be asked to keep track of all the appaling mishaps in this world.

I'm sorry SK, but it's not a one way thing i believe, We've had shootings like that in the netherlands of which I would be surprised if anyone outside or even inside holland still remembers. (2009 riots on the beach anyone).
As I am sure there are more cop unpunished killings happening in Amerika that we don't know about either.

Each case its appaling. But being fed enough of them people go num. Like I said. I dose myself on news because I just cannot stomach too much of it.
I'm sorry I wasn't more supportive SK when you broke the story on ToT. I think I know where you were and that is not a fun state to be in.
The world at that point seems unfair, misarable, completely bonkers and one feels powerless to do abything about it. Thats what I am imagining anyways...

With Love
Eelco

Calz
10th January 2014, 15:31
SK I am really sorry for steering your thread elsewhere.

Your point(s) about global focus have validity.

Myself I never watch television (except for dvd movies) and get most my "news" from alt news sources (roll the dice and use great discretion) or else forums (same advice).

I check in with mainstream online news on occasion simply to see what the system is trying foist upon the masses as that helps to understand things.


Police being called into *possible* lines of fire I can see some justification and understanding if split second decisions need to be made.


Yes police tampering with "evidence" happens all too frequently ... but consider walking in their shoes and being put in those types of circumstances on a very regular basis ...


Latest story from the states is a mentally handicapped teen was shot to death by the 3rd officer on the scene after the first two already had the situation in control and there was no threat to anyone (CNN).

Not going to do links here ... only concepts okay?

Alternative news story suggests the cop (who was just hired and trained) said prior to the shooting that "I don't have time for this"???

What?

Will mention briefly two other police abuses in the news (again without links ... if anyone wants to dig deeper it shouldn't be hard to find unless removed).


One police officer has been charged and (thankfully) either removed from duty or possibly held legally responsibly for actually raping a woman he had pulled over ... broad daylight ... in uniform ... on the hood of his police car.


A number of similar stories ... apparently true as some police forces have taken action against the officers involved ... taking great liberty with "body cavity searches" for no other reason than suspicion of drug smuggling. All those that I have read about being accused for there was no evidence found yet after ***hours*** of methods of personal probing and medical MRI's and Xrays ... nothing.


... and yes Margaret ... after they were let go take a wild guess on who was sent the many thousands of dollar medical bill for that one???


What???


What's going on here folks???


Yes it isn't that we don't care ... we are becoming numb from the sheer volume of this type of horror coming upon innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time confronted by the wrong type of psychopaths with way too much authority.


as always ... imho

BabaRa
10th January 2014, 17:16
Yes it isn't that we don't care ... we are becoming numb from the sheer volume of this type of horror coming upon innocent people in the wrong place at the wrong time confronted by the wrong type of psychopaths with way too much authority.


as always ... imho


Well said. . . . there are so any injustices in our world. . . they can bury us.

I try to focus on the one's in my own community that I can do something about.. . . and I must admit, even the local injustices are overwhelming.

Tribe
10th May 2014, 22:14
Mark Duggan Shooting: Police Body Worn Cameras 'Could Have Helped Resolve What Happened

The death of Mark Duggan, which sparked the August 2011 riots, would have been easier to resolve had the officers been wearing cameras, the Metropolitan Police has said as a major trial of them begins.

The trial, thought to be the largest in the world, will see a total of 500 body-worn cameras distributed to 10 London boroughs. Firearms officers will also be testing the cameras in their training environment with a view to wearing them if the pilot is successful.

The Met was criticised over the death of Duggan, who was shot by its officers. The moments before his death - and whether he was armed - were hotly disputed.
Met Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe told BBC Breakfast: "I think as we saw in the recent incident - fairly recent incident - regarding Mark Duggan, there was a great dispute about what Mark Duggan was holding at the time he was shot, and this hopefully would have helped to resolve that."

"If officers are found to regularly fail to switch on their cameras when they should do it will be treated as a disciplinary offence, he added.

He added the cameras would "capture the reality of some of the horrible things we have to deal with from time to time".

Duggan's death intensified the debate over the police's use of body-worn cameras.

The camera trial comes after a jury at the inquest into the 29-year-old's death concluded in January that he had been lawfully killed - a conclusion which prompted outrage from his family and supporters.

None of the officers involved in the incident in Tottenham were wearing body cameras.

Sir Bernard added: "Body-worn video will not only help us fight crime and support victims but help the Met to be more accountable

"Our experience of using cameras already shows that people are more likely to plead guilty when they know we have captured the incident. That speeds up justice, puts offenders behind bars more quickly and protects potential victims.

"Video captures events in a way that can't be represented on paper in the same detail and it has been shown the mere presence of this type of video can often defuse potentially violent situations without the need for force to be used.

"I believe it will also show our officers at their best, dealing with difficult and dangerous situations every day but it will also provide clearer evidence when it's been alleged that we got things wrong. That has to be in both our own and the public's interest."


Source http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/08/mark-duggan-shooting-police-cameras_n_5286018.html