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ronin
30th December 2013, 18:52
been on the alt community circuit a few years now.
the difficulty in what i observe is.

a loop..

same **** different day.

however we glamours it or perceive it.
it,s just questions upon questions with no real answers.

it really does feel like a loop!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WOcU7J9F3E

Calz
30th December 2013, 18:56
http://www.boiledbeans.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/89cf8bc71014f0ed285d30c2b9e7925b.jpg

Tribe
30th December 2013, 19:03
I don't know about that being 100 % true , I do see what you mean but from my perspective I have learned a lot about myself , and have had some of my firm beliefs tested and re thought , in some cases I have had some real oh crap why was I holding onto that belief it isn't actually true moments. I also have found some really helpful loving individuals who have offered me their knowledge on health that I didn't know , and I've also had my vision widened on the whole plant , human relationship which I wouldn't have had by myself . So I don't really think it's the same do dos different day at all ! I think we have to be prepared to go deeper within ourselves if it's feeling that way ! Namaste x

Spiral
30th December 2013, 19:18
I don't know about that being 100 % true , I do see what you mean but from my perspective I have learned a lot about myself , and have had some of my firm beliefs tested and re thought , in some cases I have had some real oh crap why was I holding onto that belief it isn't actually true moments. I also have found some really helpful loving individuals who have offered me their knowledge on health that I didn't know , and I've also had my vision widened on the whole plant , human relationship which I wouldn't have had by myself . So I don't really think it's the same do dos different day at all ! I think we have to be prepared to go deeper within ourselves if it's feeling that way ! Namaste x

Same here, been through a LOT internally, and externally ?

I can use a computer now, & fix them too, all because of foruming & surfing for info, before that (only 3 years ago) I couldn't type, send an email or anything !

ronin
30th December 2013, 19:19
the rabbit hole as we like to call it.
it does not come up smelling of roses.
the deeper you go the scarier it gets.

maybe we all need a good cleansing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99j0zLuNhi8

BabaRa
30th December 2013, 20:14
I don't know about that being 100 % true , I do see what you mean but from my perspective I have learned a lot about myself , and have had some of my firm beliefs tested and re thought , in some cases I have had some real oh crap why was I holding onto that belief it isn't actually true moments. I also have found some really helpful loving individuals who have offered me their knowledge on health that I didn't know , and I've also had my vision widened on the whole plant , human relationship which I wouldn't have had by myself . So I don't really think it's the same do dos different day at all ! I think we have to be prepared to go deeper within ourselves if it's feeling that way ! Namaste x


I'm with Tribe and Spiral, Rather than a loop, it feels more like a spiral to me - and it's movement is upwards. Maybe not as quickly as I would like, but definitely going in that direction.

I've learned a lot about my own beliefs. I also learned a lot about how to communicate with others without offending.

ronin
30th December 2013, 20:23
hmm spiral does come to mind like the Fibonacci sequence or pi or the golden ratio.
the universe is in a spiral towards the galactic center.

so if everything is pulling one way that would make sense.

a black whole or the center of creation.

a friend once said.
offence can never be taken.

;)

modwiz
30th December 2013, 20:51
I'm with the spiral perception.

Fred Steeves
30th December 2013, 20:57
the deeper you go the scarier it gets.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioTIy8WQ6xA&list=PLF7849057A851F6E4

Fred Steeves
30th December 2013, 21:14
I'm with the spiral perception.

Hold on just a minute though Rad. What happens when you combine the Fibonacci Sequence, with a Mobius Strip?

245246

modwiz
30th December 2013, 22:28
Hold on just a minute though Rad. What happens when you combine the Fibonacci Sequence, with a Mobius Strip?

245246

I'll bite. What do you get?:p

Fred Steeves
30th December 2013, 22:51
I'll bite. What do you get?:p

No LOL, I wasn't making a joke. It also wasn't a question (necessarily) aimed at you, more of the open ended type I like. Who's to say a spiral, can't also be a cycle?

modwiz
30th December 2013, 23:10
No LOL, I wasn't making a joke. It also wasn't a question (necessarily) aimed at you, more of the open ended type I like. Who's to say a spiral, can't also be a cycle?

Thank you for clarifying it for me. I do see them as part of each other. Viewpoint can make it seem two dimensional or three.

Or more?

Calabash
30th December 2013, 23:37
been on the alt community circuit a few years now.
the difficulty in what i observe is.

a loop..

same **** different day.

however we glamours it or perceive it.
it,s just questions upon questions with no real answers.



Hi Ronin

Nice to have you on board btw.

I agree with your observation in that night follows day follows night follows . . . . etc. But I find that what does change, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot, is our perception.

Take Russell Brand, for instance, the latest Messiah. Suddenly he's saying what most people on the forum are thinking and he's saying it eloquently and to a mass audience. He's getting the message out, isn't he? But a few weeks before that he was just an irritating git who never learned when to keep his mouth shut.

BabaRa
31st December 2013, 00:41
You have to be somewhat awake to see when and how your life isn't working for you.

Like in the movie Ground Hog day - Bill Murray keeps trying to tweak the same scenario in different ways, until he gets it right.

Once one gets it, the plot changes, and that change keeps playing and replaying until you get it. Eventually, as one wakes up, you realize you are no longer a character in the movie, just an observer.

Eelco
31st December 2013, 05:22
been on the alt community circuit a few years now.
the difficulty in what i observe is.

a loop..

same **** different day.

however we glamours it or perceive it.
it,s just questions upon questions with no real answers.

it really does feel like a loop!


Loop or spiral, either way the cycle changes ever so slightly each time I seem to go round.
Getting caught in the mesmerizing display of angels of light one round, only to wallow in the pits of despair another. and everything in between.

What changes though is the speed with which I recognize one or the other and the actions I take to help myself become more balanced.
So each turn I am a bit more aware of the lies I tell myself :flag:

Slightly more capable to forgive my own stubidity.

With Love
Eelco

Seikou-Kishi
31st December 2013, 06:48
What if it's not a spiral at all, but a helix? That would account for movement and the perception of forever returning to the same spot.

ronin
31st December 2013, 10:34
What if it's not a spiral at all, but a helix? That would account for movement and the perception of forever returning to the same spot.

or could it be a vortex


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws

KosmicKat
31st December 2013, 11:45
I too, support the spiral idea. For me, music is an eloquent model; every octave is very slightly out of tune with the next (unless you are using a mean-tone scale in which everything has been bent out of shape a little to make it fit our oversimplified notion of how it should sound) because if plotted as a three-dimensional graph each ascending octave is slightly smaller in diameter. And I think the suggestion of a combined Mobius-spiral sounds very promising.

BabaRa
31st December 2013, 17:39
however we glamours it or perceive it.
it,s just questions upon questions with no real answers.





Hi Ronin,

Going back to your original statement, I know we have all felt like that at times - still do. It's like we never get the "real answers" - just information that brings us to more questions.

Sometimes I ponder: Have we become addicted to the search? . . one more book, one more workshop, one more video.

While at the same time we all keep spouting: The answers aren't out there anywhere, they're in here, in our own hearts. There is a theory that we've been programmed to look outside of ourselves, rather than in where all the answers are cleverly hidden.

I also wonder: Maybe there is nothing more to say, just different ways to say it. I mean really:

. . . do until others as you will have them do to you.
. . . what you sow you reap
. . . live in peace and harmony with everyone and everything
. . . don't sweat the small stuff
. . . be the silent sentinel of your own thoughts, so you don't inadvertently create what you don't want
. . . and stop,stop,stop judging and labeling, and putting everything and everyone (including yourself) in boxes.

But I expect, we resist changing ourselves - or even acknowledging that we need to change.

Maybe the hidden secret is - there is no secret.

Maybe we simply need to internalize all the information we have gathered - and begin living it.

We all keep saying: Be the change you want to see in the world. How many of us are really doing it? - not just occasionally, but all day every day.

ronin
31st December 2013, 17:59
Thank you BabaRa.
What you say makes perfect sense.

stop looking outside yourself,the real you is inside.

Know thyself maybe one of the hardest lessons to understand.
But i guess we have all played the part of Parcival.
We need to experience to know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU0PYcCsL6o

Spiral
31st December 2013, 17:59
I too, support the spiral idea. For me, music is an eloquent model; every octave is very slightly out of tune with the next (unless you are using a mean-tone scale in which everything has been bent out of shape a little to make it fit our oversimplified notion of how it should sound) because if plotted as a three-dimensional graph each ascending octave is slightly smaller in diameter. And I think the suggestion of a combined Mobius-spiral sounds very promising.

http://www.moillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/greatestgifever.gif

I prefer a multi dimensional model where we leave here when we have understood what we came here for, even if its just seeing what happens in the absence of love.

Fred Steeves
31st December 2013, 18:38
http://www.moillusions.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/greatestgifever.gif

I prefer a multi dimensional model where we leave here when we have understood what we came here for, even if its just seeing what happens in the absence of love.

Now we're talkin Spiral, and I think that's the perfect visual




Sometimes I ponder: Have we become addicted to the search? . . one more book, one more workshop, one more video..

Yes, there should most definitely come a point where the questions begin morphing into answers, and the latest whistle blower, book, video, seminar etc., is just not going to cut it any more. Besides, a lot of these people we look to for the answers are every bit as lost as we are, if not at times more so.


While at the same time we all keep spouting: The answers aren't out there anywhere, they're in here, in our own hearts. There is a theory that we've been programmed to look outside of ourselves, rather than in where all the answers are cleverly hidden.

How true. It is a grand search though isn't it? Puts the Raiders Of The Lost Ark movies to shame (LOL). I think the search outward has no choice but to eventually turn back inward. Hell what's to lose? Everything else has failed right? So why the hell not?

The Alan Watts clip ronin posted was always one of my favorites, and it starts out with this: "Black implies white. Self implies other. Life implies death".

I would now like to hereby add one to his list: "The search implies the answer".


We all keep saying: Be the change you want to see in the world. How many of us are really doing it? - not just occasionally, but all day every day.

Amen sister.




Cheers,

Fred

Wolf Khan
31st December 2013, 22:18
Perception is the key, understanding what we perceive, throughout the emotional tides is a gift of life experience. Life is what we make it.

modwiz
31st December 2013, 22:27
Information. Anal-yze or act upon. We can often become bedazzled with analysis. We then get caught up with talking the talk and forgetting that we need to walk too.

From somewhere: "We find peace in relaxation and joy in doing."

Basically, this is just agreeing with Barbara.:D

ronin
31st December 2013, 22:29
Perception is the key, understanding what we perceive, throughout the emotional tides is a gift of life experience. Life is what we make it.

this perception can be taken either way.
if we are stuck in a loop or spiral or mobius strip then it is a ongoing cycle.
lifetime,s and incarnations stuck in a loop.
the goal must be to break free from these re incarnations and move on.return to source,so to speak.

reconnect with he HS,lessons learnt and return.

to where?
pleiades ,sirius the centre of the galaxy or just a few mile wide blob called source.

the loops and the spirals seem like a kind of soul trap.

Eelco
1st January 2014, 09:45
this perception can be taken either way.
if we are stuck in a loop or spiral or mobius strip then it is a ongoing cycle.
lifetime,s and incarnations stuck in a loop.
the goal must be to break free from these re incarnations and move on.return to source,so to speak.

reconnect with he HS,lessons learnt and return.

to where?
pleiades ,sirius the centre of the galaxy or just a few mile wide blob called source.

the loops and the spirals seem like a kind of soul trap.

It's only a trap if you choose to see it like that.
The loops, spirals, moebius strips and what not's are complete unto themselves. They is what they is.
I have come to think of it slightly in terms of the Buddhist teachings. Very slightly and probably false as I am far from being a scholar. So the ideas I have picked up are coloured very much from my experiences.

Only as long as we think we are an ego. A sepperate part of the spiral with a personal,encapsulated conscioussnes the idea could arise that we have to go through the loop, maybe learn something and then grow out of it. Returning to something or expanding to something ore someone.
However the loop is just that. a loop we experience with a temporary, percieved notion of self that we franticcaly hold together(that is build up) again and again from moment to moment giving us an illusion of a sollid sepperated self.

Its just not there. That said though. we have to build an ego first before we can let it go.
Just realize its as much a false thing as the next. Its a fun one though..

With Love
Eelco

BabaRa
3rd January 2014, 19:02
the goal must be to break free from these re incarnations and move on.return to source,so to speak.

.

to where?
pleiades ,sirius the centre of the galaxy or just a few mile wide blob called source.

the loops and the spirals seem like a kind of soul trap.

I have come to believe that we don't have to reincarnate - it is a choice. However, that being said, I suspect that the place we go to immediately after death is also part of the programmed Matrix. If you've read books by hypnotherapists that take people back to the place we go in between liftimes (I'm thinking of Michael Newton's "Journey of the Soul"), supposedly it's a school-type environment where wise teachers help us to understand what we've learned already and what we still need to experience - and they encourage us to come back and experience it.)

If you really don't want to come back, I don't think you have to; but I think so many still want to play a different role. (i.e. they want to be the famous movie star or violinist, etc - and they totally forget the pain and suffering of their previous life thinking the "new" one will be different. We forget: That we're made to forget everything we previously learned, so that each time we're beginning from scratch.