Why Are They Killing us and Polluting our Planet?

[BabaRa]

I just watched a video posted by Highlander1 here: http://jandeane81.com/threads/1551-Leuren-Moret-USA-UK-Monarchy-behind-Fukushima-radiation-genocide

Very thought provoking, but there were some dots that don't quite connect for me. I believe the Who, but the Why is still confusing.

I believe what whistleblowers are telling us about chem trails, radiation, vaccinations, etc.

But don't these things effect them and their families as well?

If the reason is only genocide, I can think of a million quicker ways to take out humanity much faster than making us sick and watching us slowly die. Leuren Moret talked about the radio-active water dumped into the waters in Ireland, which would travel to India and produce cancer in the newborns. WHAT??? Why not just put the radio-active water in the water in the Indian reservoirs.

They could kill millions it would seem in a very short time by heavily tainting the drinking water of many large metropolitan areas - or have false flags of bombing several big damns.

OR, do they get some energy out of watching us suffer?. . .I know they make lots of money via pharma companies thru the diseases they have caused. I've felt for some time that they want us to live longer, but less healthy so they can sell more drugs and make more $$.

And, if they are reptilian or some other ET, maybe they aren't effected by Chem trails and radio activity.

Is it possible they (who ever "they" are) are trying to change our environment (I think David Icke suggested this) so it's more compatible to them.

[modwiz]

I just watched a video posted by Highlander1 here: http://jandeane81.com/threads/1551-Leuren-Moret-USA-UK-Monarchy-behind-Fukushima-radiation-genocide


OR, do they get some energy out of watching us suffer?. . .I know they make lots of money via pharma companies thru the diseases they have caused. I've felt for some time that they want us to live longer, but less healthy so they can sell more drugs and make more $$.


This is exactly where a long drawn out suffering fits in.........perfectly.

I hope most are familiar with the term "loosh" and the food it represents for a vast 4th dimensional ecosystem. Their are classes of "gods" that need this from of nourishment. These god-beings are part of the earth control network. In one scenario.
http://montalk.net/about/212/glossary#loosh

Just because if fits logically does not mean this line of thought is correct.

[Calz]

Loaded question there BabaRa.

I expect that would take many pages just getting into the "loosh" of the matter.

... but I will leave that for others "above my paygrade".

The esteemed member and white wizard modwiz is one such equipped to guide us if he is willing and inclined ...

Rather fond of and miss the "snarky" one myself ... but that is simply me being selfish.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CLoWrvV0pDg/T60j3hxraFI/AAAAAAAABIk/DZx4DzHyhpQ/s1600/gandalf-i-have-no-memory.gif

[lookbeyond]

I for one am needing assistance in this area as my entire life from babe to now has been loosh producing- in fact take that back one generation i know of, i need to break the cycle for the current brood

[modwiz]

Loaded question there BabaRa.

I expect that would take many pages just getting into the "loosh" of the matter.

... but I will leave that for others "above my paygrade".

....modwiz is one such equipped to guide us if he is willing and inclined ...

Rather fond of and miss the "snarky" one myself ... but that is simply me being selfish.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CLoWrvV0pDg/T60j3hxraFI/AAAAAAAABIk/DZx4DzHyhpQ/s1600/gandalf-i-have-no-memory.gif

I am willing. Inclined is another thing entirely. I am quite aware of dynamics that can develop from a scenario where I "step out" a bit. I choose my words very carefully, especially when attempting to impart ideas. Getting such language can be an effort. A well rewarded one, in regards to the information formed and communicated. To further complicate the process by adding a "hurt feelings" or "button pressing" filter in the mix is a burden I refuse to work with. It results from incomplete emotional work and non-understanding of self. I do not condemn work undone, it is just not the situation for me to place myself in. Especially being able to see the probable reality in front of me.

Now that I got that off my chest, there is some "prompting" from the heavens for me to make myself as available as possible and as is sensible.

I might make it a new years resolution.

Did I say I truly do not like typing and that I type so poorly multiple corrections are needed? Often one, or more, per sentence.
That is my challenge. One I am willing to rise to. Not sure how much information of utility I have for many of the forum members. I like to entertain but, do it better with a guitar on my shoulder or lap.

Lastly. Except for a mere handful of adult hobbits, Gandalf was quite unwelcome in the Shire.

[lookbeyond]

Well you see Modwiz, some of us really need the ingredients of the xmas pudding..

[modwiz]

I for one am needing assistance in this area as my entire life from babe to now has been loosh producing- in fact take that back one generation i know of, i need to break the cycle for the current brood

We have grown up in the aftermath of world wars and a generation a nuclear annihilation hanging over our heads. War now ravages the planet. Earth has been turned into a loosh machine.

If I get my writing mojo, I will share what I have been able to perceive and learn about loosh and the ecosystem it supports. And, how to create new ecosystems.

[Calz]

If I get my writing mojo, I will share what I have been able to perceive and learn about loosh and the ecosystem it supports. And, how to create new ecosystems.



That would be something truly TOT worthy ... and no doubt many members here would be most appreciative! :)

[modwiz]

That would be something truly TOT worthy ... and no doubt many members here would be most appreciative! :)

Ye gods, what am I getting myself into?:fpalm::nails::p

[lookbeyond]

Ye gods, what am I getting myself into.:fpalm::nails::p

At times i no longer wish to participate on this earth, our dinner minutes ago full of misinterpretation, i cant fix this mess yet it is of my own making and there is no god to help us

[Calz]

Ye gods, what am I getting myself into?:fpalm::nails::p


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfUM5xHUY4M


Kidding of course (you know me but to make sure for others).


You won't have the depth of a "supporting cast" as before and that is unfortunate ... but this is the platform.

The stage is set ...


You have the chance to perform a great STO service to those here with an ear to hear (don't forget the 10 to 1 guests).


What say you???

[modwiz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfUM5xHUY4M


Kidding of course (you know me but to make sure for others).


You won't have the depth of a "supporting cast" as before and that is unfortunate ... but this is the platform.

The stage is set ...


You have the chance to perform a great STO service to those here with an ear to hear (don't forget the 10 to 1 guests).


What say you???

Thus, I reply.:p

I have spoken in the above posts. I think there may have been something about the new year being a decision point. Still leaving myself wiggle room for the present time.

[modwiz]

At times i no longer wish to participate on this earth, our dinner minutes ago full of misinterpretation, i cant fix this mess yet it is of my own making and there is no god to help us

I could commiserate with you here regarding frustration and the whole Earth participation thingy. Been there, you know the rest...
It would appear we have differing views regarding the Benevolence of the Universe, God or Eru (Elvish alert). So I am useless there.
It is a shame you cannot find wise counsel locally.

[Spiral]

We have grown up in the aftermath of world wars and a generation a nuclear annihilation hanging over our heads. War now ravages the planet. Earth has been turned into a loosh machine.

If I get my writing mojo, I will share what I have been able to perceive and learn about loosh and the ecosystem it supports. And, how to create new ecosystems.

When the universe gives someone the wits & wisdom to gain such insights it normally comes with a caveat to impart such knowledge to those who "knock".

http://25.media.tumblr.com/bdcc97b3ea40fc777a97d37dc43698b9/tumblr_mmz3cbGE1Y1qjhmi2o1_500.jpg

[Eelco]

@Modwiz, I hope you do find your writing mojo.
Loosh is a topic I found fascinating and scary at times. Partly because I feel that Monroe only told part of the story.

Somehow I get the idea that even though in a small way of looking at Loosh one can get the idea that its parasitic and evil.
I know I did, but that could have been because the loosh idea came to me around the time I learned about anunakki and false gods.

That said I have appart from monroe never met anyone on or off line that did check for him or her self what was up with this story.
I know I haven't found a deffinitive answer anywhere.
To me it seems valid up to the point where the idea of loosh production is akin to farming. Although it may have become that the idea of us producing a sustenance for other beings (in my mind anyway) should be or become one of mutual sharing. Same as the deal we as humans have with our food sources. Honour and respect for the mineral, plants and animal kingdoms.

Ehm yes I am lacking in that department myself..
( just a few ideas to get the ball rolling maybe?)

WIth Love
Eelco

[Calabash]

Did I say I truly do not like typing and that I type so poorly multiple corrections are needed? Often one, or more, per sentence.
That is my challenge. One I am willing to rise to. Not sure how much information of utility I have for many of the forum members. I like to entertain but, do it better with a guitar on my shoulder or lap.


If the Mod part of wiz could stand for modern, just to try . . . then how about doing a video - oops, there I said it, which would keep the typing to a minimum.

Also, regarding the loosh, I wonder whether there isn't a synthetic type, in the same way that methodone is a substitue for heroin?

Here's a link to Montalk btw -
http://montalk.net/

well worth a visit if you haven't been before. All the books are downloadable for free, although I have bought several and they all link back to the website anyway.

[Fred Steeves]

Loosh is a topic I found fascinating and scary at times. Partly because I feel that Monroe only told part of the story.


That would come as no big surprise. Not (necessarily) saying anything about Monroe himself as a person, because I just don't know. But, when your working along side masters of psyops like Gen. Albert Stubblevine, Col. John Alexander, and the men who stare at goats remote viewing crowd (who are highly influential to this very day btw), your natural abilities at discernment had better be well honed. Being taken for a ride is only the beginning, so hang on to your loosh (LOL).

I'm not an expert on this (or any one thing) by any means, so am looking forward to what modwiz might impart, but I do know enough to say the following. This mass harvesting of energy and consciousness becomes so insidiously subtle, and personal, that I don't see how it can be reasonably explored without seriously stepping on all investigative toes involved. Most dare not trod there, because it ain't pretty. As I currently see it there are three tools needed: Guts, determination, and a mirror.

This manipulated harvest goes well beyond the obvious wars and such, much like when Morpheus is explaining to Neo just how deeply The Matrix runs in our lives. While paying taxes, going to church, etc. Here's but one pristine example. It only comes around once a year, but it's a doozy. Christmas.

Cheers,

Fred

[Eelco]

If the Mod part of wiz could stand for modern, just to try . . . then how about doing a video - oops, there I said it, which would keep the typing to a minimum.


Cool you could even do musical intermezzo's.
no typing. just picking and slapping..

:rock:

With Love
Eelco

[Tonz]

We should start at the top!!


FREE CHOCOLATE FOR EVERYONE>

[Eelco]

Here's a link to Montalk btw -
http://montalk.net/


So I go there. search for Loosh. read..
scroll down a bit, come to mind programming.

See myself Zoning out.
Wait what?? Read again.
Reflect a bit....

Yup guts, determination and a mirror..
Not enough available here at the moment...

Sad thing is though here's Mo(a)ntalks advise..
Mind programming is best defeated through self-observation and self-control, to question irrational impulses and not act on them.

At times like this that is not what makes me feel empowered. Its the opposite.
Guess I have just made some refined loosh to be harvested..

With Love
Eelco

[BabaRa]

Ye gods, what am I getting myself into?:fpalm::nails::p


Modwiz, I feel moved to pass on a challenge that was given to me some years ago, because the moment, I believe, is right. There is a timing in this world you know. So now, I say to you, as was said to me:

If not now, than when; If not you, than who?

You know how important it is to share knowledge - and clearly there is great interest here.

I understand the typing problem as I have other friends in the same boat, realize how tedious and frustrating it is. Let's think of other options. I'm not that technologically knowledgeable, but others on this Forum are. Here's a suggestion; I'm sure others have better ones:

Dictate to someone in person or via Skype who can type it for you.

[modwiz]

Modwiz, I feel moved to pass on a challenge that was given to me some years ago, because the moment, I believe, is right. There is a timing in this world you know. So now, I say to you, as was said to me:

If not now, than when; If not you, than who?

You know how important it is to share knowledge - and clearly there is great interest here.

I understand the typing problem as I have other friends in the same boat, realize how tedious and frustrating it is. Let's think of other options. I'm not that technologically knowledgeable, but others on this Forum are. Here's a suggestion; I'm sure others have better ones:

Dictate to someone in person or via Skype who can type it for you.

The workarounds for my typing issue are not suitable. As a writer, which I am, the time taken in between words or phrases while typing or writing is a very important part of the process. I start out with the information I have, and then in this deep thoughtful process I contact a higher aspect of myself. The part that lives outside of space and time. I then have a wholistic, big picture view that I then have to "decode" and form into words. Construction of sentences and words used are crucially important. This process does not allow for dictation or third parties.

With all that said, everything is leaning toward me doing what I can. Who knows, I may bore people.LOL. I always seem to press buttons. It is unavoidable because filtering would create enough distortion to hurt the delivery.

Anyway, I see the new year as a probable starting period. However, as someone in service to Eru, there may be promptings that do not coincide with my schedule. Although I have basically encountered nothing but respect for my plans, most of the time.

I like the saying you put in your post Babs. It is a profound one and it really strips off the BS.

[modwiz]

If the Mod part of wiz could stand for modern, just to try . . . then how about doing a video - oops, there I said it, which would keep the typing to a minimum.

Also, regarding the loosh, I wonder whether there isn't a synthetic type, in the same way that methodone is a substitue for heroin?

Here's a link to Montalk btw -
http://montalk.net/

well worth a visit if you haven't been before. All the books are downloadable for free, although I have bought several and they all link back to the website anyway.

Yes, modern wizard is the full form of modwiz. It was also the name of a store and essential oil and natural cosmetics business I had. Still make many of the products for myself and friends.

[modwiz]

This mass harvesting of energy and consciousness becomes so insidiously subtle, and personal, that I don't see how it can be reasonably explored without seriously stepping on all investigative toes involved. Most dare not trod there, because it ain't pretty. As I currently see it there are three tools needed: Guts, determination, and a mirror.
Cheers,

Fred

With size 13 feet, stepping on toes comes with the anatomy. :hilarious:
Your point about the subtlety and personal nature of the loosh subject is well made. However, A wholistic view, making sense of the environment, lends itself to bigger picture clarity without defining the personal aspect. Like going into the woods alone. It will be a personal, unique experience but, there is information a more experienced woodsman or forest dweller could impart that would be useful. The pitfalls in such endeavors have been made clearer to me. I have edited out a few ego insertions before hitting the post button. Acceptance of the ego is like having a dog. Ya gotta keep an eye on it or it will do doggy things. ("Hey, get off her leg!"):p

[BabaRa]

So, now that we've gently pushed, prodded and poked Modwiz - who took it graciously in the spirit it was sent, how's about back to topic.

:back to topic:

Which is: Why do You think they are killing us and polluting our planet? - or do you think otherwise?

[Seikou-Kishi]

"Why" is a very strange question. It is natural to seek reasoning, it is human. I am not sure their reasoning has any real impact. Perhaps they are not killing us or polluting our home. If they are, do they know they are? And if they know they are, what is their motivation? The reasoning could run the gamut from their being spiritual entities incarnating to act out the part of the villain to help us realise that love is what we want. Or, they could just be sick people not caring in the slightest what their greed is doing. Either way, their intention has no bearing on it, really.

When Bill Gates' vaccine programme leaves children dead or disabled in Africa, does it really matter if he believes he is doing good? And for all it is commonly held that "malice aforethought" aggravates the crime, does it make the child's disability more severe or their death longer lasting? Personally, I suspect that they are in the majority greedy psychopaths who never have enough, they will delight in the poverty of others because it'll make them feel richer by contrast. They don't care about human life because they do not view themselves as the same species (in an elitist, rather than Ickean manner). Finally, the few at the top will be trying everything in their power to hold on to a control mechanism that is against nature, and which nature and human consciousness is throwing off increasingly. They are desperate people who would rather see the world burn than free of their control.

It doesn't matter though; I hold no assumption that their motivation matters, and so I feel under no compulsion to accurately assess their motive. If somebody were to burgle my house, I would not paralyse myself in masticating over whether or not they had a good childhood. I would eject them from my home without hesitation. That is what has to be done here. Perhaps when they are dislodged from their vainglorious throne we can chew the fat and ask ourselves why they did as they did and, more importantly, how we collectively allowed it in the first place. Now, in the moment, though, what matters is not why but that.

Please understand I do not criticise this need to understand what motivates them.

[norman]

So, now that we've gently pushed, prodded and poked Modwiz - who took it graciously in the spirit it was sent, how's about back to topic.

:back to topic:

Which is: Why do You think they are killing us and polluting our planet? - or do you think otherwise?

(1)

As a wild ish guess, how about it's an inter 'Alien' poker game. One group of them wants us to do well and are being provoked into having to do some very obvious intervention here, which is either against their own rules or is a trap to give the other group a win by some means beyond my understanding.

The recent radiation disaster from Fukushima has created a situation humans have no way of fixing. We are either going to vanish or we are going to be 'saved' by smarter folk with smarter technology. This forces the hand of entities that are committed to our success as a species.

(2)

A much less wild idea is to simply see the situation as ideal for stress testing the human genome. After the creation of billions of us, it's now time to hammer the genome very hard until there are very few of us left.

Any entities invested in us for our genome would consider this hard time we are going into as a perfect selection process, from which they can find a "better" and "tougher" human.

[modwiz]

(1)

As a wild ish guess, how about it's an inter 'Alien' poker game. One group of them wants us to do well and are being provoked into having to do some very obvious intervention here, which is either against their own rules or is a trap to give the other group a win by some means beyond my understanding.

The recent radiation disaster from Fukushima has created a situation humans have no way of fixing. We are either going to vanish or we are going to be 'saved' by smarter folk with smarter technology. This forces the hand of entities that are committed to our success as a species.

(2)

A much less wild idea is to simply see the situation as ideal for stress testing the human genome. After the creation of billions of us, it's now time to hammer the genome very hard until there are very few of us left.

Any entities invested in us for our genome would consider this hard time we are going into as a perfect selection process, from which they can find a "better" and "tougher" human.

I can see one and two working together.

[BabaRa]

"Why" is a very strange question. It is natural to seek reasoning, it is human. I am not sure their reasoning has any real impact. Perhaps they are not killing us or polluting our home. If they are, do they know they are? And if they know they are, what is their motivation? The reasoning could run the gamut from their being spiritual entities incarnating to act out the part of the villain to help us realise that love is what we want. Or, they could just be sick people not caring in the slightest what their greed is doing. Either way, their intention has no bearing on it, really.

When Bill Gates' vaccine programme leaves children dead or disabled in Africa, does it really matter if he believes he is doing good? And for all it is commonly held that "malice aforethought" aggravates the crime, does it make the child's disability more severe or their death longer lasting? Personally, I suspect that they are in the majority greedy psychopaths who never have enough, they will delight in the poverty of others because it'll make them feel richer by contrast. They don't care about human life because they do not view themselves as the same species (in an elitist, rather than Ickean manner). Finally, the few at the top will be trying everything in their power to hold on to a control mechanism that is against nature, and which nature and human consciousness is throwing off increasingly. They are desperate people who would rather see the world burn than free of their control.

It doesn't matter though; I hold no assumption that their motivation matters, and so I feel under no compulsion to accurately assess their motive. If somebody were to burgle my house, I would not paralyse myself in masticating over whether or not they had a good childhood. I would eject them from my home without hesitation. That is what has to be done here. Perhaps when they are dislodged from their vainglorious throne we can chew the fat and ask ourselves why they did as they did and, more importantly, how we collectively allowed it in the first place. Now, in the moment, though, what matters is not why but that.

Please understand I do not criticise this need to understand what motivates them.

All great thoughts. . . . . I wonder, did we allow it. Did we have a choice? It seems we often find out about things "after" the fact. Then, sometimes groups organize and try to do something about it. But it seems to me, that they're always one step ahead of us, since they have the power (money) they bribe (and in some cases blackmail) the courts, Congress, Parliament, etc.

OR, if this really is maya (an illusion) am I creating all this, just as I create in my dreamtime, or maybe in this maya, we are co-creating this. And if I (we) are creating this, one could assume we could create differently.

[modwiz]

OR, if this really is maya (an illusion) am I creating all this, just as I create in my dreamtime, or maybe in this maya, we are co-creating this. And if I (we) are creating this, one could assume we could create differently.

We could create differently. We have chosen not to, although much derives from not knowing, or believing, that choice is an option. How congruent and functional would our choices be?

Knowledge is power. One of the reasons we are kept in the dark. Although, there is always disclosure before they act. They conceal their disclosure very well. They attend to the letter of their law and not the spirit.

We are in Maya. It can be a very playful world.

[BabaRa]

We could create differently. We have chosen not to, although much derives from not knowing, or believing, that choice is an option. How congruent and functional would our choices be?

Knowledge is power. One of the reasons we are kept in the dark. Although, there is always disclosure before they act. They conceal their disclosure very well. They attend to the letter of their law and not the spirit.

We are in Maya. It can be a very playful world.

I have believed for some time now that I create my own reality,and try to do it consciously as often as possible. But I'm not clear about world-wide realty. Are we co-creating or am I creating all of you and it (as in my dreams).

[modwiz]

I have believed for some time now that I create my own reality,and try to do it consciously as often as possible. But I'm not clear about world-wide realty. Are we co-creating or am I creating all of you and it (as in my dreams).

The ability for units of consciousness, think of self aware quantum-type units, to be in two places (or more) at once or exist just long enough in one place to satisfy material existence reality, it is possible for there to be overlaps, and there are.

There is a consensus reality shaped by the.....consensus, deriving from consent. Being in the world but not of it seems to be a good balance. One is participatory but, not in thrall.

My input.:D

[Eelco]

Why?

I don't think the why can be answered in a singular answer. Its the effect of many many causes all comming to fruition to create what each of us experience as now.
This now is created by our own understanding of what reality is, And then some. All the PTW have created is a painfully strong idea of what reality is and as long as we believe that idea reality is what it is.

Granted that changing your mind about reality is extremely difficult. At least it is for me as the indoctrination and idea of what it is is so prevailant all around us, making a change in perspective difficult to achieve..

I have my hopes set for a 15 day vipasana retreat(Mahasi style) this febuary to lift the veil of maya a little. At least enough to get some experiental knowledge of the stages of insight the Buddha and others talked about. As I understand it now if one emerses his or her self completely in noting the sensations that make op your reality there is nothing to find but the Arising and passing away of reality as we know it from moment to moment. Nothing of substance that is there for anny prolonged period of time.

Ah well

With Love
Eelco

[Calz]

Me ... I have a rather simple linear thought process ...

If we are to truly examine this topic ... perhaps a good place to start with might be who ... exactly ... are we labeling as "they"???

[Highland1]

Perhaps these satanists can only reincarnate by the evils they do?
What then, if they are reincarnations cloned from our previous selves........?
If that was the case, maybe we are all fallen angels given a final chance to collectively redeem what we may all be be guilty of....?
"They" might be "cloned" versions of ourselves....if indeed we are all one?

Russ

[Calz]

... or perhaps "these Satanists" don't actually die but rather transfer their "souls" (if they have one) into a clone???

[Eelco]

They?

Are as much an idea as you or me. An ever changing awareness of a percieved idea of self. I think I said it before, but reincarnation as it is mostly thought of in my view is as false a concept as a pure evil being. SO what it is that gets handed over through the times is just an idea. Granted its a powerfull one and "They" have found ways of perpetuating the idea through what we commonly call "mind control" that is shaping ideas of experiences that form a believable reality which we then percieve as truth or real.

I think there are still people who experience life in a completely different mode of what is real and what is not than me as a white european male. That has had a pretty easy and wealthy life according to some standards.
My idea of equality for instance is bound to be different than that of a person in india that has been taught that there is a caste system you are born into because of reincarnation.

Even in Tibet before the chinese occupation corporal sentences leading to death were really quite common, even though most westeners view Tibet like SHangri La.

Just rambling here, because all these words do not seem to make Life any lighter, hardships any easier to bare and are unable to change the way I percieve life in any palpable way.

With Love
Eelco
(that said the best Lie the devil got away with. was make us believe he doesn't exist)

[Calabash]

Me ... I have a rather simple linear thought process ...
If we are to truly examine this topic ... perhaps a good place to start with might be who ... exactly ... are we labeling as "they"???

Good point from Calz. 'They' have not yet been truly 100% identified, other than Illuminati, Masons (apols to Modwiz), Royalty, Politicians, the Peerage and/or with Big Money, Aliens and all foreigners. That covers everyone apart from those of us on the forum - and I'm not sure about thee either (lol) - but you know what I'm getting at . . . . . ?

I do wonder about the insidious destruction of the planet and why we're not actively looking for other planets rather than covertly for the "elite". I had thought they might be looshing the whole planet in a terraforming way, but then when everything goes they go too, although who's to say this didn't happen on Mars first, which is now lying fallow. Please excuse inane ramblings. Perhaps we should have a 'musings out loud' thread . . . .

Before ending this post and slightly off topic but relevant, I remember when I was young - say 50 years ago - people would be more likely to "have a go" and "stand together" if something wasn't right. As a race we seem to have lost our metal somewhat and I'm minded to quote Yuri Breznemov's four stages of bringing down a nation:

"Stage One: Demoralisation – Elimination of Exceptionalism, fundamental change of national identity, structural deconstruction of foundational principles, elimination of religion. Embedding a new societal design upon the psyche of generations through ideological academia. Peer pressure by elites upon academics and society to convince that prior values were inherently flawed, racist, prejudiced etc. National identity is diluted with aspersions toward historical references. National history is re-written, re-defined, and moulded to fit the new intended behavioural model and create the new values.

Stage Two: Crisis – Creation of economic, financial, and national security crisis. Also includes social crisis and breakdown of previous self-evident restrictions on moral behaviour. Cloward Piven approach to overloading the system, ie more takers than producers. The crisis produces benevolent leaders who will promise to deliver “things” (Hope and Change) to meet people’s needs through Social and Economic Justice. False illusions that the situation is under control if certain strategic directions are followed (Bailouts, Stimulus, Jobs Bills, Regulations of industry, Unconstitutional Power Grabs, Dismissal of Historical Laws, Changes in legislative processes, Changes in checks and balances of power etc).

Stage Three: Normalization – The uncomfortable feelings of change including losses of freedom are absorbed and accepted. Lost national identity becomes accepted as the norm within the new societal model. A period of national rebranding transition where people are so overwhelmed by the change they become numb and begin to accept a ‘new normal’. This period of normalization lasts indefinitely as the progression is continually advanced and acceptance takes place in small controlled doses. (New limits on behaviour, Regulations, TSA Patdowns, Intrusions into privacy, Controls into daily life) These things begin to be accepted as “just the way it is now”.

Stage Four: Destabilization – Unlike the period of “Crisis” the people who helped orchestrate the change are now no longer needed. The new overarching centralized governmental model begins to take control. Leftist usurpers who initially thought they were going to be part of the new power structure begin to realize they were used and manipulated and they themselves become the new enemy. Because they have first hand knowledge of the agenda they are the primary target for elimination. They may simply be disregarded, obfuscated, thrown out, or they may be collected, imprisoned, or worse killed. There is no longer room for dissention. Dissent is only possible within the free system that has now been deconstructed. Therefore the leftist purpose is served once the destabilization is complete. Totalitarian Government takes control…"

One of the first things we have to do is to stand together - all of us - and then ask the question "why are they killing us and polluting our planet"?. Is this possible do you think? It's good to join the dots to get the Bigger Picture, but if you don't join them in the right order you just get one big mess.

[Eelco]

So ehm,

How would another Breznemov's cycle help?
Seems to me we cycled it a few times allready without any "Real" change..

With Love
Eelco

[Calabash]

It won't Eelco - I think we're in the "normalisation" process now to be honest. Anyone disagree?

[BabaRa]

Wow! While Barbara slept, you all posted. I love it. . . . Lots of great thoughts here, and for me, they all have merit. I'll try to summarize (and if someone else is better at this, please feel free).

There seems to be a question of whether or not it's important to identify "Who" before "Why". . . . and then I believe Seikou-Kishi pointed out . . . Maybe more important is "That" and what to do about it.

Norman's ideas: Either it's an inter 'Alien' poker game. One group of them wants us to do well - the other doesn't. OR . . stress testing the human genome to eliminate the weaker. ( I must admit have considered both, but then does that eliminate free will and/or our ability to create?)

Seems several believe Satanists are different from us in how they reincarnate or transfer their souls. (I can believe this, but why are they different? Et's? or ?!?)

Many believe there is an agenda and the WHY seems to be for more power for them, but that still doesn't explain to me why they would trash the planet along with us. There are many ways they could cull the flock without polluting the planet.

Modwiz brought in loosh. Never heard the word but always believed that "they" need our negativity and suffering as food(energy source).

Trying to pull this all together for myself.

I believe with all my heart we can create - as individuals and collectively.

Catsquotl reminded us that the Reality TPTW have created is a painfully strong idea of what reality is and as long as we believe that idea reality is what it is.

Could it be as simple as holding on to a different idea of reality - and if enough of us did this (critical mass) we could shift it?

But at the same time we would have to learn to control our emotions (mind) and not bring forward the pain of the past so as not to continue to create more loosh for them and without the massive amounts of loosh they would wither and die?

[Eelco]

"Why" is a very strange question. It is natural to seek reasoning, it is human. I am not sure their reasoning has any real impact. Perhaps they are not killing us or polluting our home. If they are, do they know they are? And if they know they are, what is their motivation? The reasoning could run the gamut from their being spiritual entities incarnating to act out the part of the villain to help us realise that love is what we want. Or, they could just be sick people not caring in the slightest what their greed is doing. Either way, their intention has no bearing on it, really.


From this p.o.v I like to just look at the way we as humans treat our food sources and our environment.
We treat food as a commodity, not caring how we treat plants and farm animals. Its not that ordinairy farmers are incapable of love or are inherrently maliscious. It just doesn't occur to them how the way they treat their produce might effect the group soul of the produce.

The farmer that takes good care of its cows for instance will still sepperate the baby cows, give them powdered milk instead of the milk from its mum.
If we did that to humans hell would break loose. This is assuming we are being farmed.

with Love
Eelco

[Calabash]

Or perhaps this is the answer . . . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIkXfxyB-8

I wonder how any of us would score . . . ? Twonk!

[Eelco]

Catsquotl reminded us that the Reality TPTW have created is a painfully strong idea of what reality is and as long as we believe that idea reality is what it is.

Could it be as simple as holding on to a different idea of reality - and if enough of us did this (critical mass) we could shift it?

But at the same time we would have to learn to control our emotions (mind) and not bring forward the pain of the past so as not to continue to create more loosh for them and without the massive amounts of loosh they would wither and die?

In a way I hoped this is happening. with the dawning of the new age and all that.
As for simply holding a different idea of reality. In my experience there is not much thats simple about it. To me it feels like being pulled from one end of the spectrum to the other. Causing me to become rathere inactive because of self persevation..
I could definitly use a big dose of conguency between my thinking and my actions....

About that last bit. I tend to think that in order to survive or forgive we have to come to some agreement with the loosh eaters. we could maybe let them wither and die, but would you want to? I am unsure of how deep this rabbit hole goes, maybe I should wait for modwiz to fill in some of the blancs, but for now I cannot escape the fact that if they are farmers. In their eyes they are not doing any harm, other than producing a fine meal. sort of like what we do with fois-gras.
WHo knows there are nolooshians that forgo the eating of it like the vegans do over here. just thinking out loud...

With Love
Eelco

[Calabash]

OMG Eelco, now I'm wondering whether animals have these conversations about us . . . . .

[Eelco]

Or perhaps this is the answer . . . .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qIkXfxyB-8

I wonder how any of us would score . . . ? Twonk!

Wha ha ha ha ha ha.
Thanks for the laugh. this is hilarious..

WIth Love
Eelco

[BabaRa]

OMG Eelco, now I'm wondering whether animals have these conversations about us . . . . .

I have often thought that. Even our pets. We pick up our cats and small dogs and move them around when WE want. What about what they want. Due to leash laws our dogs have to be kept reigned in most of the time. They don't always get to go in and out when they want. . . And the poor birds that many keep as pets in cages.. not to mention the animals in zoos.

So is the comfort we get from our pets our loosh? hmm .. and in some way are we setting up a chain of events?

[modwiz]

In a way I hoped this is happening. with the dawning of the new age and all that.
As for simply holding a different idea of reality. In my experience there is not much thats simple about it. To me it feels like being pulled from one end of the spectrum to the other. Causing me to become rathere inactive because of self persevation..
I could definitly use a big dose of conguency between my thinking and my actions....

About that last bit. I tend to think that in order to survive or forgive we have to come to some agreement with the loosh eaters. we could maybe let them wither and die, but would you want to? I am unsure of how deep this rabbit hole goes, maybe I should wait for modwiz to fill in some of the blancs, but for now I cannot escape the fact that if they are farmers. In their eyes they are not doing any harm, other than producing a fine meal. sort of like what we do with fois-gras.
WHo knows there are nolooshians that forgo the eating of it like the vegans do over here. just thinking out loud...

With Love
Eelco

Just a quick comment. The farming of any sentient being, and I consider animals sentient and plants at another level, is of questionable "moral" validity, IMO.

When we open a loosh discussion things should get interesting.

[modwiz]

I have often thought that. Even our pets. We pick up our cats and small dogs and move them around when WE want. What about what they want. Due to leash laws our dogs have to be kept reigned in most of the time. They don't always get to go in and out when they want. . . And the poor birds that many keep as pets in cages.. not to mention the animals in zoos.

So is the comfort we get from our pets our loosh? hmm .. and in some way are we setting up a chain of events?

Some of the thoughts you posit here are why I am not a pet owner.

The part I highlighted is an especially juicy path to explore with regard to loosh. I do want to say that loosh is not a food/energy source intended for us. However, we do see something akin to this with energy vampires. All food is ultimately energy consumption. Loosh is best viewed in the scavenger category. It is energetic sewage for/from us.

[Calabash]

So loosh is "stilled" from negativity- anything north of the middle line gets more and more delicious? And it's an energy which is milked from us? So what happens to the spirit at the point of ultimate loosh at say, death from torture/suicide? Is a soul really penalised for being driven to that point? And if we go south of that middle line, can we be so peaceful and/or happy that our loosh is so disgusting they leave us alone?

One thing which has always confused me. . . . . If we are 3D and the reps are 4D, (a) how do we get to 5D without going through 4D? and (b) if the reps are 4D, how come they are "higher" (as in more advanced) than we are and how come more advanced doesn't include spiritual? Unless it does and we are just part of the food chain like everything else and we are wrong to think humans are special or apart. Perhaps being a part of the whole (consciousness) means that we are being continually recycled, and there is no other purpose at all. What a strange thought . . . . . apologies.

[modwiz]

So loosh is "stilled" from negativity- anything north of the middle line gets more and more delicious? And it's an energy which is milked from us? So what happens to the spirit at the point of ultimate loosh at say, death from torture/suicide? Is a soul really penalised for being driven to that point? And if we go south of that middle line, can we be so peaceful and/or happy that our loosh is so disgusting they leave us alone?

One thing which has always confused me. . . . . If we are 3D and the reps are 4D, (a) how do we get to 5D without going through 4D? and (b) if the reps are 4D, how come they are "higher" (as in more advanced) than we are and how come more advanced doesn't include spiritual? Unless it does and we are just part of the food chain like everything else and we are wrong to think humans are special or apart. Perhaps being a part of the whole (consciousness) means that we are being continually recycled, and there is no other purpose at all. What a strange thought . . . . . apologies.

So many points to address that I will pick one and do my best to couch it in words that stay within your belief parameters.
Although there are organisms (life forms) that are more "dimension"/frequency range specific many are trans-dimensional. A rock exists in a more two dimensional existence, yet we can perceive it in our 3 dimensional mind focus. Most of the higher beings are trans-dimensional. Obviously?, certain beings find our dimension quite restrictive and unpleasant vibrationally and avoid it. Reptiods seem very comfortable in our dimension, probably owing to their underdeveloped emotional bodies not being able to "feel" the oppressive nature of Earth 3-D existence.

Besides, they are motivated.:shocked:

The loosh discussion is still in the future for me. Unraveling misconceptions, from my point of view, will be a big part of the heavy lifting. Guessing what loosh is, unless one guesses correctly, can lead to getting ahead of the discussion and forming ideas that could be poorly founded.

I am curious as to where you see distillation entering the process? You call it "stilled". Loosh is no more distilled than a shark distilling whatever it eats. It eats the energy represented by is prey. Prey may be our subjective projection on the process, although the term is valid for our consideration and communication.

[Calabash]

I am curious as to where you see distillation entering the process? You call it "stilled". Loosh is no more distilled than a shark distilling whatever it eats. It eats the energy represented by is prey. Prey may be our subjective projection on the process, although the term is valid for our consideration and communication.

Stilled directly in the body by inducing fear and thus increasing its vintage/strength. Perhaps a better word would have been "concentrated"? Or maybe there is no such thing, other than in my imagination :). Thank you for responding about the frequencies and I look forward to our first forum loosh lesson in the New Year. (I hope you don't get put off between now and then :)lol - don't know what I'm lolling for, I won't be lolling if it happens . . .

[modwiz]

Stilled directly in the body by inducing fear and thus increasing its vintage/strength. Perhaps a better word would have been "concentrated"? Or maybe there is no such thing, other than in my imagination :). Thank you for responding about the frequencies and I look forward to our first forum loosh lesson in the New Year. (I hope you don't get put off between now and then :)lol - don't know what I'm lolling for, I won't be lolling if it happens . . .

Strength would be equivalent to what is put out organically. Things that release adrenaline seem to be very charged and the more the release the more intense the loosh. Though even that information distorts a bit when some adrenaline is released during moments when pleasure is derived. Let us say, bungie jumping or parachuting. In this case we might make vintage be able to work.:p You could say there are different "notes", as in flavors. So, wine is wine but , there are varieties. If an alcoholic is unable to imbibe the preferred alcoholic beverage then, even a 'vintage' that is not particularly pleasing to them will be consumed. I really have not investigated or read about the "picky" consumption habits of the flora and fauna of the 4th dimension and beyond.;)

To elucidate further would push this conversation more than I want to at this time.:thup:

[Seikou-Kishi]

The same questions that we ask of our pets we could also ask of our children. Our children do not get to do whatever they like whenever they'd like to do it. We do not consider our children to be subjugated lifeforms because children eventually grow to adulthood and usually realise that the rules laid down by their parents were rules intended to serve their best interests when the child's own wishes could not do that. Children might like only to eat sweets and to stay up all night. The parental rules against both of these things, most children realise in growing up, are self-evident examples of parents doing "the unpopular good", so to speak.

In the same way, we can say the same things about our pets. The difference is, pets remain pets their entire lives. They do not progress from "pethood" into a phase of consciousness or intelligence matching that of the people who looked after them during their pethood the way children emerge from their childhood as the intellectual equals or superiors of their parents. But we have ways of knowing how pets feel.

When children go to school, pet dogs often become despondent and miss the children, pining for weeks on end. When children attend a day school, it is very common for dogs to go and wait by the door at the time they are due to return (dogs seem to be able to keep track of the time very well). Dogs particularly display affection very openly. It is not simply a case of Stockholm syndrome or an acknowledgement of the fact that some people give them food. Social animals like dogs live in groups and it doesn't matter to them if the group is a specially homogeneous group. Look at the dogs who pine by the grave of a dead "pack member".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlAK6Tb6Bhc

I think it's clearest with pets like dogs that humans are not doing to animals what "they" are doing to us. With farm animals, it's less clear. It has been shown that cows grieve when their calves are taken from them. No amount of supplying food for them could detract from the fact that we care more for the meat of the baby than the grief of the mother. With other things, though, it's less clear. Cows, for example, have developed over centuries of interaction with humans to produce much more milk than they would ever have done in the wild. Without human interaction in this case, the cows would suffer terribly. Sheep are another example; they have had their woolly fleeces bred into them through centuries of selective breeding. Without regular shearing, their fleeces eventually overtake them, making it difficult to move. Not only that, but they become host to infestations.

The way the farming industry treats baby animals, by pulling them away from their mothers, is an act of cruelty against both the mother and the child. Other aspects of farming are necessary. Another thing I think is cruel about the modern meat industry is the way animals are killed by conveyor belt. Can you imagine how dreadful it must be for a cow to have to witness the slaughter of another cow? And then to see that a host of inhuman machinery is ushering it to the very same spot? Most of the cruel aspects of modern farming and the meat industry have their root in the assumption that animals do not feel the way that we feel. They might not have the intelligence we have, but it is a mistake and a crying shame not to realise that they feel grief and separation anxiety or that they feel desperation when they see another of their kind being killed.

People think "well, people have to eat!" when mention of these things is made. Vegetarians will make the argument that people do not need to eat meat, but many of us cannot manage the level of hyperbole necessary for vegetarianism (lol, sorry, calm your jets) and do not wish to derive our protein from sesame seeds. In any case, from the idea that we have to eat (and that we eat meat), it does not automatically follow that calves should be rent from their mothers or that animals must be slaughtered wholesale in front of their terrified herd-mates. When we eat meat, what stops us being grateful to the animal we killed and acknowledging that for our nourishment we took the life of an animal? That gratitude would stop us being cruel to the animals that are in our mind if not in theirs destined for our dinner plates. It would help us realise the kindness to those who yet live in separating an animal away from its herd-mates before we kill it to take its meat. It would also encourage us to render the animal unconscious first. Hanging an animal upside down while it's conscious and slitting its throat to let it bleed to death as it frantically struggles to free itself is not compassionate and it should be beneath every human, meat-eater or otherwise.

I once said that my family declined to hunt for sport even when they hunted for food, claiming that the difference was not immaterial. If you take an animal because you intend to feed your family, how do you share in the wickedness of the man who hunts an animal only because he wants the "glory" of having killed something magnificent? It reminds me of those videos that have done the rounds recently of animals being skinned alive. I am not against fur as a material for clothing. If a sheep is killed for its meat and its skin, rather than being wasted, is turned into gloves, what is the harm in it? Better and more respectful it is to the life of the animal that nothing goes to waste. But when the animals are skinned while still alive? What excuse is their for such barbarism? When their skinless bodies are left to die on a pile of dead and dying animals? How does a human being reach the point at which it will not only see that happen, but contribute to it?

"I'm going to take your skin to make a fur coat, but I won't even grant you the mercy of a quick death first." Utter B*****ds! An animal that is killed can produce food to feed many people (or animals). Not just the meat but the organs too. Its bones can be used in soup or fed to the dogs, or both in turn. Very little of an animal has to be wasted. Those animals not routinely eaten by humans could be used for animal food. Your cat doesn't care if it eats beef or the flesh of a sable used in the fur industry, but why reduce an animal's life to one part of the animal's body? The sable-marten, worth it's weight in fur! Literally :-(

Farmers could take a lead in this, if they had the courage to take a course that might in the short term be the less profitable course and if they had faith in the human population that such compassion would be rewarded as it should be. There is much in the attitude humans have towards other animals that is undesirable, and a lot of it is like the attitude "they" have towards the rest of us, who simply wish to live our lives in peace. If humans had the compassion to look at the animals they keep and say "you will one day die to feed my family, but I have the technology to give you a good life and an easy death, and the respect to ensure that nothing of you is wasted", humanity might move on leaps and bounds.

We don't actually have to completely forswear animal products. If we can treat animals well, kill them quickly and privately and not demean what we take by wasting what their bodies provide, we can really show that their lives have value in the truest sense and not value only in the economical sense. When I die, I would most like a Tibetan sky burial. Why? Because my death is inevitable, and I would rather my body fed the birds than rotted away in a coffin or was burned away in cremation. With current human society as it is, one that only cares for economics, I would worry for the day animal-rights extremists like PETA prevent the commercialisation of animals as in modern agriculture. When that day came, it wouldn't spell the end of the domesticated species' suffering, but their end all together. It is no coincidence that the most populous animals on earth after humans are those which are farmed.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW7PlTaawfQ

The remark was made that perhaps we are to the animals what "they" are to us. People who do not care what we kill as long as we get what we want. And perhaps we are. Perhaps, even, we deserve this "they" above us while we behave the way that we do. Do not judge the character of a man by the way he treats his equals, but by the way he treats his lessers. Those willing to kill us for economic reasons (like Bill Gates' and his CO2 equation) have attributed the same value to humans that most humans attribute to animals — that is, a value that matters only in a business ledger. Perhaps if we were the sort of people who didn't kill foxes for sport, and truly respected the life we take from animals by using every possible "resource" that life provides, people wouldn't crop up amongst us who were willing to kill us for their own selfish reasons, too. Perhaps compassion and gratitude towards "lesser" animals would act as a buffer zone preventing the mindset that withholds compassion and gratitude from humans. It is not a great leap to go from saying "animals are only worth what we can get from them" to saying the same of humans.

My father told me when he was taken on his first big-game hunt, his father told him to take a slice from a bone of his first animal, carve an image of the animal in it, and wear it around his neck on a length of waxed cord as a tribute to the animal that died to feed his family. My grandfather was against displaying the heads or antlers of animals as "trophies" because he said it was a boastful show of having killed something grand, rather than an act of tribute. My father showed me buttons his mother had made. She'd slice the bones and sand and polish them and make buttons. My father always intended to create a ring for my mother by carving the bone of an animal. He'd designed it down to the last detail; it was to be a signet ring with a relief of a deer against a black enamel background. Animals don't have to be simply the input of a callous steak-making machine. When we celebrate even the smallest life, the preciousness of all life is exalted. How can humans truly live but that they take their place in the great circle of life?

[Eelco]

Just a quick comment. The farming of any sentient being, and I consider animals sentient and plants at another level, is of questionable "moral" validity, IMO.

When we open a loosh discussion things should get interesting.

I agree on the distinction between plants and animals(sentient beings). And even though we can discuss the "moral" of farming animals or keeping pets The vast majority of our consensus "reality" does not make that distinction when it comes to caring for one or the other..

Can't wait for the loosh thread. So vultures and Hyena's are scavengers and sentient beings right?

With Love
Eelco

[Eelco]

Wow BabaRa,

You seem to have opened up a line of questioning that seems to steer us in the direction of our own Morale.
Viewing the "THEY" as mirrors for our own behaviour as a race..

Thank you for opening the can of worms.
I am learning a lot..

With Love
Eelco

[modwiz]

I agree on the distinction between plants and animals(sentient beings). And even though we can discuss the "moral" of farming animals or keeping pets The vast majority of our consensus "reality" does not make that distinction when it comes to caring for one or the other..

Can't wait for the loosh thread. So vultures and Hyena's are scavengers and sentient beings right?

With Love
Eelco

My term 'questionable morality' stems from the idea that it is good to look at and question things. I am aware of the "english" the term primarily casts on usage and there is a little of that there from my personal viewpoint and value system.

I have no issue with hunting for food. A food animal like a deer is born into a situation where a natural death is being killed and eaten. Removal of apex predators like wolves necessitates that something fill that void. Since humans are the reason for wolf decline, looks like they should assist the coyotes in filling this void in the ecosystem.

I just grabbed an analogy and kept it simple. Deer was my go to animal.

[modwiz]

Another clarifier. I am not comfortable keeping a pet with some reasons mentioned by Babs.

I had a dog when I was in my teens and a cat for twenty years. She lived until I was 41. I cried more for her than either of my parents. Parents I loved and was in excellent relationship with. Of course.

My cat, Stinky, taught me more about love than any other corporeal being to date. I've had the pet experience........and teachings.

Pets are wonderful companions and teachers.

Wonderful memories. As close as my breath.

[Calabash]

Though even that information distorts a bit when some adrenaline is released during moments when pleasure is derived. Let us say, bungie jumping or parachuting.

Orgone as opposed to loosh? Does one change to the other through hormonal fluctuations and, if so, are there any others? Must be . . . .

[BabaRa]

Do not judge the character of a man by the way he treats his equals, but by the way he treats his lessers.

I loved your entire post SK, (your background sounds so interesting) but the quote above truly stood out for me. . . .

And after I read it (the entire post that is) the word that rang in my ears was: Intention

[Seikou-Kishi]

I loved your entire post SK, (your background sounds so interesting) but the quote above truly stood out for me. . . .

And after I read it the word that rang in my ears was: Intention

Oh, intention definitely counts. For a stark contrast, take the idea of somebody who almost runs into you with their car. If they're just negligent, they probably didn't want to do it. If they're trying to kill you, chances are they'll try again. It's a kind of "metavariable" in that although it doesn't aggravate or mitigate anything that happens, it has implications for the possible "repeatability" of attempts. What's the chance that somebody could nearly kill you twice by accident? If they nearly kill you because they tried and failed, chances are they'll try again and again until they're stopped.

[modwiz]

I loved your entire post SK, (your background sounds so interesting) but the quote above truly stood out for me. . . .

And after I read it (the entire post that is) the word that rang in my ears was: Intention

Yes, it is a powerful quote and a very good measure. I like it. :thup:

[Calabash]

This thread has taken so many twists and turns but all are relevant . . . . . . . .

The thing about animals . . . . when my children were small and I was still married my husband would not allow us to have pets. I went along with it because we were both working all day and I thought it wasn't fair to leave animals on their own all day. But my husband (asian) felt that having domestic cats and dogs was a form of disrespect to domesticise them and I understood what he meant, although I had been brought up with (much loved) pets as a child. When he left, however, we had five cats; not all at once I hasten to explain. We took Jet in because my daughter intervened when she came across some children playing football with a small black kitten. I said that she could only stay for the night. Sigh . . . . . and then one by one the others arrived, all rescue cats of one kind or another. They all had different personalities and each one had unique relationships with individual family members. Yes, we have diluted their "animalness" and reduced them to living a life of luxury and indolence, but they have definitely brought out the very best in us.

A few years ago my job took me to a livestock farm in Ongar, Essex. While I was waiting I took a walk past a barn and half a dozen young bullocks rushed to the door to see who was approaching, their breath forming clouds in the cold air. I remember that in that split second we seemed to communicate on a soul level and I "saw" them as individuals (I know this sounds fanciful - I do apologise), on the same level as my cats. That was harsh and I never ate meat for ages afterwards.

And this is my relationship with meat. Something like the above will put me off for weeks but eventually I will go back to eating meat again. I am such a hypocrite and it doesn'tmake me feel any better to admit it.

[Eelco]

I am such a hypocrite and it doesn'tmake me feel any better to admit it.

:smiley hug:
:hugs:

With Love
Eelco

[BabaRa]

This thread has taken so many twists and turns but all are relevant . . . . . . . .

The thing about animals . . . . when my children were small and I was still married my husband would not allow us to have pets. I went along with it because we were both working all day and I thought it wasn't fair to leave animals on their own all day. But my husband (asian) felt that having domestic cats and dogs was a form of disrespect to domesticise them and I understood what he meant, although I had been brought up with (much loved) pets as a child. When he left, however, we had five cats; not all at once I hasten to explain. We took Jet in because my daughter intervened when she came across some children playing football with a small black kitten. I said that she could only stay for the night. Sigh . . . . . and then one by one the others arrived, all rescue cats of one kind or another. They all had different personalities and each one had unique relationships with individual family members. Yes, we have diluted their "animalness" and reduced them to living a life of luxury and indolence, but they have definitely brought out the very best in us.

A few years ago my job took me to a livestock farm in Ongar, Essex. While I was waiting I took a walk past a barn and half a dozen young bullocks rushed to the door to see who was approaching, their breath forming clouds in the cold air. I remember that in that split second we seemed to communicate on a soul level and I "saw" them as individuals (I know this sounds fanciful - I do apologise), on the same level as my cats. That was harsh and I never ate meat for ages afterwards.

And this is my relationship with meat. Something like the above will put me off for weeks but eventually I will go back to eating meat again. I am such a hypocrite and it doesn'tmake me feel any better to admit it.

This reminds me of a story: My son had severe food allergies so couldn't eat many things. (Later found he was mostly allergic to what they were putting in the food, rather than the food itself.) ..... I degress ... at 5 yrs of age found a butcher who could provide us with products without any antibiotics, etc. . . So now my son was having his first hamburger, and since he felt he had always been denied, he was eating with gusto. . I remembered that his teacher had just made an announcement to parents: that children didn't know where food came from (we were city folks) and when she asked the class where eggs came from they all said the grocery store - and she encouraged us to make the connection.

So as this youngster was eating so happily I said: Do you know that hamburger comes from cows?. . .his face immediately turned white and he wailed, "I'm eating a cow?" (He always loved all animals) and he pushed the plate away. . . Then you could see his little mind working as he looked at the hamburger, and he finally said: "This isn't a mother cow or a baby cow, is it Mom? This is a robber cow, right! . . . and I lied, "Right". . so now he could finish his special meal without guilt.

I always thought how interesting it was that one so young could find a way to justify what they wanted so quickly. (I also laughed at the thought of a cow going in and robbing a bank).

P.S. Eating meat has always been a complicated subject for me. I do eat it, but not often, usually more sprinkled through a casserole, but I must admit that I do enjoy it.

[Calabash]

This reminds me of a story: My son had severe food allergies so couldn't eat many things. (Later found he was mostly allergic to what they were putting in the food, rather than the food itself.) .....

I think this section of your post partially addresses your original question Barbara, and that is the number of additives in our food. If there is a reaction, the tendency is to treat the symptom rather than the cause. The number of people who are killed with prescription drugs each year is frightening and doctors are rarely prosecuted. Likewise, animals are given any number of antibiotics to counter the symptoms they suffer through not eating the right food. As to why, it's all about money - it always comes back to money . . . .

[norman]

As to why, it's all about money - it always comes back to money . . . .



I'm not so sure about that, in fact I'll even say it NOT about money.

The people we tend to assume are motivated by money are really only stooges for the very people who know absolutely that money is a sick joke. We'd have to assume that the stooges are acting alone to believe it's all about money.

Ok, from the point of view of many of them, it probably does look like it's all about the money, but, we should get our focus right before throwing our analytical effort down that stupid drain.

It's perfectly clear to me that the shots are called at the same level as the level where "money" is alchemically mustered out of thin air.

From what you state, and so many do state, this simply does not compute.

How on earth can it make sense that the people who create 'money' are doing all this **** to make money ?

[Tonz]

the theme of domestic pets is always to the word, ''domestic'',very few pets are free,have a say in the family ,even though members may argue for there rights with in that organism,especially my children.
They must adapt to our needs or rhythm that has been created , they must in there own way adapt the best they can . Most do!, but not only that, most give much more than what they receive.
You know that they are aware and attentive for any changes and are sensitive to the human behavior , as they must see us as an unstable lot that have so many ups and downs ,so many changes to there moods ,we must be a lot of folk that need constant giving and a demonstrations of love every day .It my be given with that surprised expression and that waging tale ,to see you entering your home , as if it were years since they had seen there best friend,even though you had just gone up the road to buy some milk for your morning coffee.
we have almost always had pets, and all if I remember right had been abandoned , Always felt the social logic that we can provide a better life for them ,but It wasn't till I learned ,especially from my children, that it has been they have given the better life to us.
I miss them , those that have gone ,and the one that is still in Europe , Her name is Luna,and i miss her as much as my magnificent daughter ,I am glad that they are together.


I'll stop getting sentimental now and go towards the other discussion about the consumption of animals.


I was raised to hunt,fish ect. Mostly It was rabbit ,as the introduction of rabbit to Australia was as you all know , turned into enormous plagues at times, so the hunting of rabbit was fair game.We only used ferrets, and nets .There were many a time that 20 to 40 rabbits were taken home and consumed , much to the delight of friends or and other relatives. Also for my parents with a young family of 7 ,rabbit was on the menu frequently. The skills of killing the rabbit quickly by using a simple karate chop behind its neck was for the easiest and quickest method without using a knife or a club , as it was fairly instant. The lessons of skinning and cleaning were also for all family members ,we learnt to do it all quite easily, And also the cooking.We all from a young age, learnt the meaning of the cycle .

Looking back ,the Lack of sensibility that was present , or the non association with the animals as /with personality was necessary in order to hunt. Also the lack of respect was never present .If they were a little to small they were not taken and released.
Small mercy for a family of rabbits terrorized by the hunt.!

Years later, one of my bro's and I were talking about those days with some friends and they asked us to arrange a day to show them how, we were in our early 20's by then and hadn't hunted since we were kids.So we arranged it, we borrowed some ferrets and nets from an old neighbor and off we went with about 6 others and we returned to the hilly fields that were perfect to find rabbits. We set up a number of times and showed them how to expect the rabbits to try and excape the nets and to be ready when the land rumbled as they were on there way. To our complete discomfort and disgust they took the sacrificing as a joke and treated the catch with complete disrespect and performed a number of notrocities towards these poor souls that we had provoked to there doom.We couldn't believe there behavior. My bro and I looked at each other and said we didn't come here for this, this is not what it is about,we acknowledged that they didnt get it and there wasn't a way to stop them , we walked away from them and left them there. Much to there protest , we left them there and cut our ties with them.
Mates are mates , but it does not mean the mates are free game for ya-hoo-ism .Haven't hunted since , except for fishing, as there isnt a direct need for me to do so.

Although it is good to know that if necessary one could hunt small game quite easily , rabbit, bird, small boar,snake,and roos ect. Hope that it never gets that way ,but who knows maybe it could someday.

Survival hunting is the difference between cultivating hunting.We really do not need it.
We all know the studies that show quite clearly that we can reach quite easily the protean and all minerals and vitimans with a balanced vegetarian diet .

To go further ,If the area that the U.S. alone uses ,all the land that they use produce beef ,and turned into cultivations of fruit and vegetables there would be enough to feed the world , a very bold statement but the numbers add up.!
It goes to show that we give to much importance to the cultivating and costs towards the production of meat compared to the inexpensive productions of alternatives to meat food sources ,that can provide us with all that we need.

And yes its all about business from the harvest into the huge social mind set that has decided that we cannot replace meat .When you talk to the majority they will be unswayed by the evidence and clear answers towards the issue.In the end we are all socially influenced to the point from an inbreeding mind set.

[Eelco]

So this question has me wondering..
Why are "they" destroying and polluting?

My initial jerk was blame the PTW. but are they? from there it seems that to come to an answer we carefully start exploring the energys involved and make the connection to ourselves with "them" as a mirror. Opening that particular box of pandora leaves me gobsmacked. As in my mind i've come to realize that through my own fears, cowardess and lack of wisdom. I am probbably still part of the problem allowing this killing and polluting to exist.

Besides that. There seems to be nothing in my toolbox but bandaids that I can use to comfort my symptoms a little, but nothing substantial enough to help find a cure.

With Love
Eelco

[Calabash]

I don't know the answer any more than you do Eelco, but the fact that collectively we don't actually DO anything is the common factor running through all the threads on this - and other - forums. It's not lack of interest, or will, or caring . . . or even unity. So what is it? We are all just going with the flow. Isn't that what we're supposed to do? Is it - or isn't it . . . . . ?

[Eelco]

So what does it mean that collectively we are unable to find an answer.

just thinking out loud here.
Maybe we aren't ment to do so collectively? which would raise questions about the consensus reality most here adhere to.

with love
Eelco

(i am on purpose avoiding the PTW as culprits here)

[Fred Steeves]

So what does it mean that collectively we are unable to find an answer.

just thinking out loud here.
Maybe we aren't ment to do so collectively? which would raise questions about the consensus reality most here adhere to.

Bingo!!! Until I begin to see even a *shred* of evidence to the contrary this is a solo journey, not a collective one. People complete this journey and move on when they are good and ready to, while the rest go about their business as well. Simply put, there is no mass awakening or enlightenment occurring. It has never been this way, and it will never be that way. Each in their own good time, and all is well with that.

A pretty bold statement? Yes, but I did it anyway LOL.



Cheers,

Fred

[BabaRa]

Bingo!!! Until I begin to see even a *shred* of evidence to the contrary this is a solo journey, not a collective one. People complete this journey and move on when they are good and ready to, while the rest go about their business as well. Simply put, there is no mass awakening or enlightenment occurring. It has never been this way, and it will never be that way. Each in their own good time, and all is well with that.

A pretty bold statement? Yes, but I did it anyway LOL.



Cheers,

Fred

Always a complicated subject for me.

On the one hand life does appear to be a "Choose your own adventure" journey.

On the other hand medical researchers i.e. Bruce Lipton tell us that when a cell in our bodies decides not to cooperate with the other cells: This is called cancer.

Perhaps from these two statements one can come to the conclusion that: Yes, our journey is separate, but it should be done in a cooperative way with each other and nature. Before one acts or speaks, one should consider the feelings of the group and not just one's own will.

[Calz]

Good to recognize personal responsibility (at least to a degree) for co-creating our "reality".

Don't forget the meditation studies suggesting when enough people get together with similar intent they can have a measurable difference on world events.


... as for the central issues of killing humanity and (essentially) Gaia as well with pollution and searching for reasons why ... I expect there are a myriad of reasons since we are essentially dealing with a myriad of "groups" ... not just one "they".

Correct???


Transdimensionals ... ya ... one size fits all???

Me thinks not.


Human "controllers"???

Clearly similar. How many factions with conflicting objectives lay within that "subset" of "they"???


Complex issues and when trying to go deeper to consider "timelines" and "parallel realities" it truly becomes unmanageable for most human linear minds.