Intelligence officials say the US has retrieved craft of non-human origin [Archive]

View Full Version : Intelligence officials say the US has retrieved craft of non-human origin

Aragorn

6th June 2023, 17:36

Source : The Debrief (https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/)

A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.

The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time.

Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.

The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.

https://thedebrief.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/DG-1-765x1024.jpeg

David Charles Grusch.

The task force was established to investigate what were once called “unidentified flying objects,” or UFOs, and are now officially called “unidentified anomalous phenomena,” or UAP. The task force was led by the Department of the Navy under the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and Security. It has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater.

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/06/03/ufo-crash-materials-intelligence-00100077) through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said.

In filing his complaint, Grusch is represented by a lawyer who served as the original Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG).

“We are not talking about prosaic origins or identities,” Grusch said, referencing information he provided Congress and the current ICIG. “The material includes intact and partially intact vehicles.”

In accordance with protocols, Grusch provided the Defense Office of Prepublication and Security Review at the Department of Defense with the information he intended to disclose to us. His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us.

Grusch’s disclosures, and those of non-public witnesses, under new protective provisions of the latest defense appropriations bill, signal a growing determination by some in the government to unravel a colossal enigma with national security implications that has bedeviled the military and tantalized the public going back to World War II and beyond. For many decades, the Air Force carried out a disinformation campaign to discredit reported sightings of unexplained objects. Now, with two public hearings and many classified briefings under its belt, Congress is pressing for answers.

Karl E. Nell, a recently retired Army Colonel and current aerospace executive who was the Army’s liaison for the UAP Task Force from 2021 to 2022 and worked with Grusch there, characterizes Grusch as “beyond reproach.”

https://thedebrief.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Nell-768x960.jpeg

Karl E. Nell.

Christopher Mellon, who spent nearly twenty years in the U.S. Intelligence Community and served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, has worked with Congress for years on unidentified aerial phenomena.

“A number of well-placed current and former officials have shared detailed information with me regarding this alleged program, including insights into the history, governing documents and the location where a craft was allegedly abandoned and recovered,” Mellon said. “However, it is a delicate matter getting this potentially explosive information into the right hands for validation. This is made harder by the fact that, rightly or wrongly, a number of potential sources do not trust the leadership of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office established by Congress.”

But some insiders are now willing to take the risk of coming forward for the first time with knowledge of these recovery programs.

Jonathan Grey is a generational officer of the United States Intelligence Community with a Top-Secret Clearance who currently works for the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC), where the analysis of UAP has been his focus. Previously he had experience serving Private Aerospace and Department of Defense Special Directive Task Forces.

“The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said. “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”

At the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Grusch served as a Senior Intelligence Capabilities Integration Officer, cleared at the Top Secret/Secret Compartmented Information level, and was the agency’s Senior Technical Advisor for Unidentified Aerial Phenomena analysis/Trans-Medium Issues. From 2016 to 2021, he served with the National Reconnaissance Office as Senior Intelligence Officer and led the production of the NRO director’s daily briefing. Grusch was a GS-15 civilian, the military equivalent of a Colonel.

Grusch has served as an Intelligence Officer for over fourteen years. A veteran of the Air Force, he has numerous awards and decorations for his participation in covert and clandestine operations to advance American security.

https://thedebrief.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Grutsch.jpeg

David Grusch in Afghanistan, 2013.

According to a 2021 NRO Performance Report, Grusch was an intelligence strategist with multiple responsibilities who “analyzed unidentified aerial phenomena reports” and “boosted congressional leadership Intel gaps understanding.” He was assessed by the reconnaissance office’s Operations Center Deputy Director as an “adept staff officer and strategist” and “total force integrator with innovative solutions and actionable results.”

Grusch prepared many briefs on unidentified aerial phenomena for Congress while in government and helped draft the language on UAP for the FY2023 National Defense Authorization Act (https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20221205/BILLS-117hres_-SUS.pdf), spearheaded by Senators Kirsten Gillibrand and Marco Rubio and signed into law by President Biden in December 2022. The provision states that any person with relevant UAP information can inform Congress without retaliation, regardless of any previous non-disclosure agreements.

In his statements cleared for publication by the Pentagon in April, Grusch asserted that UFO “legacy programs” have long been concealed within “multiple agencies nesting UAP activities in conventional secret access programs without appropriate reporting to various oversight authorities.”

He said he reported to Congress on the existence of a decades-long “publicly unknown Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages.”

Beginning in 2022, Grusch provided Congress with hours of recorded classified information transcribed into hundreds of pages which included specific data about the materials recovery program. Congress has not been provided with any physical materials related to wreckage or other non-human objects.

Grusch’s investigation was centered on extensive interviews with high-level intelligence officials, some of whom are directly involved with the program. He says the operation was illegally shielded from proper Congressional oversight and that he was targeted and harassed because of his investigation.

Grusch said that the craft recovery operations are ongoing at various levels of activity and that he knows the specific individuals, current and former, who are involved.

“Individuals on these UAP programs approached me in my official capacity and disclosed their concerns regarding a multitude of wrongdoings, such as illegal contracting against the Federal Acquisition Regulations and other criminality and the suppression of information across a qualified industrial base and academia,” he stated.

Associates who vouched for Grusch said his information was highly sensitive, providing evidence that materials from objects of non-human origin are in the possession of highly secret black programs. Although locations, program names, and other specific data remain classified, the Inspector General and intelligence committee staff were provided with these details. Several current members of the recovery program spoke to the Inspector General’s office and corroborated the information Grusch had provided for the classified complaint.

Grusch left the government on April 7, 2023, in order, he said, to advance government accountability through public awareness. He remains well-supported within intelligence circles, and numerous sources have vouched for his credibility.

“His assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring sub-rosa over the past eighty years focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct, as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence,” said Karl Nell, the retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force.

In a 2022 performance evaluation, Laura A. Potter, Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence, Headquarters, Department of the Army, described Nell as “an officer with the strongest possible moral compass.”

TE7uJCFlGBc

Grusch is represented by Charles McCullough III, senior partner of the Compass Rose Legal Group in Washington and the original Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, confirmed by the U.S. Senate in 2011. At that time, McCullough reported directly to the then-Director of National Intelligence, James R. Clapper, and oversaw intelligence officers responsible for audits, inspections, and investigations.

In May 2022, McCullough filed a Disclosure of Urgent Concern(s); Complaint of Reprisal on behalf of Grusch with the ICIG about detailed information that Grusch had gathered beginning in 2019 while working for the UAP Task Force.

An unclassified version of the complaint provided to us states that Grusch has direct knowledge that UAP-related classified information has been withheld and/or concealed from Congress by “elements” of the intelligence community “to purposely and intentionally thwart legitimate Congressional oversight of the UAP Program.” All testimony Grusch provided for the classified complaint was provided under oath.

According to the unclassified complaint, in July 2021, Grusch had confidentially provided classified information to the Department of Defense Inspector General concerning the withholding of UAP-related information from Congress. He believed that his identity, and the fact that he had provided testimony, were disclosed “to individuals and/or entities” within the Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community outside the IG’s office. He did not allege that this information was improperly disclosed by any member of that office.

As a result, Grusch suffered months of retaliation and reprisals related to these disclosures beginning in 2021. He asked that details of these reprisals be withheld to protect the integrity of the ongoing investigation.

The Intelligence Community Inspector General found his complaint “credible and urgent” in July 2022. According to Grusch, a summary was immediately submitted to the Director of National Intelligence, Avril Haines; the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence; and the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

The complaint was drafted and signed by McCullough and his managing partner. It ended with Grusch’s signature attached to his statement that “I do solemnly affirm under the penalties of perjury that the contents of the foregoing paper are true and correct to the best of my knowledge.”

A whistleblower reprisal investigation was launched, and Grusch began his communication with the staff of the Congressional intelligence committees in private closed-door sessions. According to Grusch, certain information which he obtained in his investigation could not be put before Congressional staffers because they did not have the necessary clearances or the appropriate investigative authority.

A representative of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence told us in March that the committee members are not able to comment on the content of a complaint or confirm the identity of a complainant.

“When you have multiple agencies nesting UAP activities in conventional SAP/CAP programs, both as recipients of exploitation-related insights and for operational reasons, without appropriate reporting to various oversight authorities, you have a problem,” Grusch said, referencing the highly secret Special Access Programs and Controlled Access Programs.

Grusch’s willingness to take risks and speak out appears to be emboldening others with similar knowledge who believe in greater transparency.

Jonathan Grey, the intelligence officer specializing in UAP analysis at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, is speaking publicly for the first time, identified here under the identity he uses inside the agency.

NASIC, headquartered at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, is the Department of Defense’s primary Air Force source for foreign air and space threat analysis. Its mission is to “discover and characterize air, space, missile, and cyber threats,” according to the agency’s website. “The center’s team of trusted subject matter experts deliver unique collection, exploitation, and analytic capabilities not found elsewhere,” the website states.

Grey said that such immense capabilities are not merely relegated to the study of the prosaic. “The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret,” he said. “The majority of retrieved, foreign exotic materials have a prosaic terrestrial explanation and origin – but not all, and any number higher than zero in this category represents an undeniably significant statistical percentage.”

https://thedebrief.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/NASIC.jpeg

[I]National Air and Space Intelligence Center headquarters at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

It is unusual for an Air Force insider to come forward, as the Air Force has been less forthcoming than other agencies (https://thedebrief.org/why-is-the-air-force-awol-on-the-uap-issue/) with regard to UAP.

“A vast array of our most sophisticated sensors, including space-based platforms, have been utilized by different agencies, typically in triplicate, to observe and accurately identify the out-of-this-world nature, performance, and design of these anomalous machines, which are then determined not to be of earthly origin,” Grey said.

Mellon, the former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, has been instrumental in arranging classified briefings for members of Congress and other officials about UAP, which include references to exotic retrieved materials. The first briefing he facilitated on retrievals of unexplained objects was provided to staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee on Oct. 21, 2019, and to staff members of the Senate Intelligence Committee two days later, as reported (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/23/us/politics/pentagon-ufo-harry-reid-navy.html) by The New York Times.

https://thedebrief.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Chris-Mellon-768x844.jpg

Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence Christopher Mellon.

Mellon says that once the members of Congress gain greater awareness of the information provided to their staff and the Inspector General, they will be in a position to quickly determine the truth if they have the will to do so.

“This is an unprecedented oversight challenge for the committees, but I believe we have leaders in Congress who are up to the task,” Mellon said.

Classified briefings are often presented for Jonathan Grey and his team at NASIC. “High-level, classified briefing materials exist in which real-world scenarios involving UAP, as evidenced by historical examples, are made available to Intelligence Personnel on a need-to-know basis,” he told us. “I have been the recipient of such briefings for almost a decade.”

The National Defense Authorization Act for FY2023 tasked the Secretary of Defense, in consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, with establishing for the first time a secure mechanism for the authorized reporting of sensitive information to defense channels.

In addition, the legislation asks for reporting on “material retrieval, material analysis, reverse engineering, research, and development” involving unidentified anomalous phenomena currently and going back decades.

Dr. Garry Nolan, a Professor in the Department of Pathology at Stanford University and a renowned inventor and entrepreneur with more than three hundred published papers, has started over half a dozen companies based on technologies out of his laboratory. Nolan has previously applied some of those technologies to the analysis of exotic materials, publishing the first peer-reviewed paper examining such materials.

https://thedebrief.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Garry-Nolan-768x883.jpg

Stanford professor Garry Nolan.

“Human civilization was utterly transformed by something as small as a grain of silicon or germanium—creating the underpinning of the integrated circuits that underly computation and now even artificial intelligence,” Nolan said.

Studying even small samples of purported anomalous material could lead to currently inconceivable benefits for humanity, he said. “What might be represented here could be hundreds of technology revolutions ahead of us. It could be more transformative for humanity than what the microprocessor accomplished. Imagine what we could do with even a grain of knowledge about how they operate.”

To encourage potential witnesses to come forward, the whistleblower legislation forbids any federal employee from retaliating against anyone providing authorized disclosure.

“Whistleblowing is essential to the checks and balances of our government – and no federal employee should feel discouraged from stepping forward due to fear of retaliation,” Rep. Andre Carson told us. In May 2022, Carson presided over the first open Congressional hearing on UAP since 1968.

The case of David Grusch marks a crucial test of these new whistleblower protections and their ability to protect future whistleblowers who decide to come forward.

Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings.”

Grey noted that the hypothesis that the United States alone has bullied the other nations into maintaining this secrecy for nearly a century continues to prevail as the primary consensus amongst the public at large. “My hope is to dissuade the global populace from this archaic and preposterous notion, and to potentially pave the way for a much broader discussion,” he said.

Grusch said it was dangerous for this “eighty-year arms race” to continue in secrecy because it “further inhibits the world populace to be prepared for an unexpected, non-human intelligence contact scenario.”

“I hope this revelation serves as an ontological shock sociologically and provides a generally uniting issue for nations of the world to re-assess their priorities,” Grusch said.

Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, with Helene Cooper, co-authored the Dec. 17, 2017, front-page article in The New York Times that disclosed the existence of a secret Pentagon program investigating UAP.

Tim McMillan, Micah Hanks, Craig Labadie, and Sean Munger contributed to this article.

Additional background details on this article, and our investigative process can be found here (https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/).

Source : The Debrief (https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/)

modwiz

6th June 2023, 19:26

Emil El Zapato

6th June 2023, 19:27

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWw... I just read the headline.... :)

Aragorn

6th June 2023, 19:43

Very convenient to have this story coming out now. If world or domestic problems need to be buried, this story can be fed to take over the headlines.

The blown up dam in Ukraine is serving that purpose today.:)

Nevertheless, this information coming from genuine intelligence community whistleblowers — as opposed to the so-called "Alternative Community™" charlatans we've been witnessing and enduring over these past 20+ years — is quite the bombshell, notwithstanding that just about everyone with a brain and their dog already long knew that we are indeed not alone in the universe, and that beings far more advanced than us have the means to traverse the vast distances of interstellar space in very little time, compared to the hundreds of thousands of years it would take us to do so with our chemical rockets.

As for the war in Ukraine, perhaps this disclosure comes quite timely, indeed, albeit not necessarily as a diversion tactic. Once humanity comes to officially acknowledge that, not only are we not alone in the universe, but we're being closely watched by beings with technology that's vastly superior to ours — which just as likely includes their weapons technology — mankind might want to think twice about carrying on with its killing spree against its own brothers and sisters.

I was never a fan of the late Ronald Reagan, but let's not forget what he said in his speech before the United Nations assembly... :eyebrows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAAHgAuti84

Wind

6th June 2023, 20:11

Seems like there are many agendas at play.

modwiz

7th June 2023, 02:30

Nevertheless, this information coming from genuine intelligence community whistleblowers — as opposed to the so-called "Alternative Community™" charlatans we've been witnessing and enduring over these past 20+ years — .......

Like this?

She said he gave good bread.:ttr:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFtS_swYHG0

modwiz

7th June 2023, 03:13

This compliments the thread well, IMO.

The analyst is quite fair.

I do not think Mr. Blower, first name Whistle, is lying.

I think he is lawyering.:) Very precise use of language.

Walking a knife edge with the accompanying grimaces and swallows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f18b9aCaEgk

modwiz

7th June 2023, 03:34

This former FBI agent does an excellent job of giving this story a sniff test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUe1vbJ3Yno

Aragorn

7th June 2023, 08:54

This former FBI agent does an excellent job of giving this story a sniff test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUe1vbJ3Yno

Very good information there. :like:

I must say that, now that I've actually seen David Grusch talking before the camera, he does immediately come across as rather full of himself, and perhaps even narcissistic. It is evident that he appears to know what he's talking about because he has rehearsed it a dozen times before in front of a mirror, including the B-movie-/advertising-style over-the-top facial expressions that anyone with a two-digit IQ will most definitely fall for, while those with an IQ in the three-digit range would be rather inclined to raise an eyebrow — and a red flag.

As the man in your last video here-above said — and as I myself wrote higher up as well — we all know and have known for many years that this stuff is true, but there's that, and then there's this David Grusch character. Something's not right with this picture.

One thing that I now also feel I should mention and that I omitted from my copy/paste job in the opening post is that the comments underneath the photos of David Grusch in the original article at The Debrief all stated that his photos were his copyright and could not be published anywhere without his permission. In and of itself, that, to me, had a bit of a Corey Goode feeling about it. :hmm:

To be continued, I guess... :unsure: :noidea:

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 09:21

Very good information there. :like:

I must say that, now that I've actually seen David Grusch talking before the camera, he does immediately come across as rather full of himself, and perhaps even narcissistic. It is evident that he appears to know what he's talking about because he has rehearsed it a dozen times before in front of a mirror, including the B-movie-/advertising-style over-the-top facial expressions that anyone with a two-digit IQ will most definitely fall for, while those with an IQ in the three-digit range would be rather inclined to raise an eyebrow — and a red flag.

As the man in your last video here-above said — and as I myself wrote higher up as well — we all know and have known for many years that this stuff is true, but there's that, and then there's this David Grusch character. Something's not right with this picture.

One thing that I now also feel I should mention and that I omitted from my copy/paste job in the opening post is that the comments underneath the photos of David Grusch in the original article at The Debrief all stated that his photos were his copyright and could not be published anywhere without his permission. In and of itself, that, to me, had a bit of a Corey Goode feeling about it. :hmm:

To be continued, I guess... :unsure: :noidea:

I wonder and I think Grusch does also why 'colleagues started coming to him and telling him secrets'. that is the part that causes head shaking and bobbing. He questions the 'why' of it. That's my opinion...Ross Coulthart did the interview. That guy 'knows' a lot.

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 09:30

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 09:39

Given the below and the 'sneering' attitude of this former FBI guy, he himself is very questionable:

John DeSouza
Name: Juan DESOUZA
Surveil Date: 2016-12-25
Aliases: John De Souza
Status: Active

Offenses
• Description:
Pending investigation to Obstruction of Justice
State: Illinois

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yxs9tAQVT62iCZk6bj7fSkezDMPr8REVM6DnII0AX2KGzYuGAn jaITIVYNzQEHytiMqHe76VjnTTvIvC8cjWJhIaFyntDQHYHxRS JgZg

Aragorn

7th June 2023, 09:40

Very good information there. :like:

I must say that, now that I've actually seen David Grusch talking before the camera, he does immediately come across as rather full of himself, and perhaps even narcissistic. It is evident that he appears to know what he's talking about because he has rehearsed it a dozen times before in front of a mirror, including the B-movie-/advertising-style over-the-top facial expressions that anyone with a two-digit IQ will most definitely fall for, while those with an IQ in the three-digit range would be rather inclined to raise an eyebrow — and a red flag.

As the man in your last video here-above said — and as I myself wrote higher up as well — we all know and have known for many years that this stuff is true, but there's that, and then there's this David Grusch character. Something's not right with this picture.

One thing that I now also feel I should mention and that I omitted from my copy/paste job in the opening post is that the comments underneath the photos of David Grusch in the original article at The Debrief all stated that his photos were his copyright and could not be published anywhere without his permission. In and of itself, that, to me, had a bit of a Corey Goode feeling about it. :hmm:

To be continued, I guess... :unsure: :noidea:

It could very easily be part of the planned disclosure approach.

Or a support rally in the public opinion for more military spending on the US Space Force. You know, "Alienses are bad. We must kills them before they kills us." :rolleyes:

Given the below and the 'sneering' attitude of this former FBI guy, he himself is very questionable:

John DeSouza
Name: Juan DESOUZA
Surveil Date: 2016-12-25
Aliases: John De Souza
Status: Active

Offenses
• Description:
Pending investigation to Obstruction of Justice
State: Illinois

In the USA, "Obstruction of Justice" can mean whatever The Powers That Be™ would want it to mean, given that they've time and again failed to demonstrate a clear comprehension of what exactly entails justice.

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 09:44

Or a support rally in the public opinion for more military spending on the US Space Force. You know, "Alienses are bad. We must kills them before they kills us." :rolleyes:

yeah, that's a good point and that really sucks.

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 09:54

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 10:12

Very good information there. :like:

I must say that, now that I've actually seen David Grusch talking before the camera, he does immediately come across as rather full of himself, and perhaps even narcissistic. It is evident that he appears to know what he's talking about because he has rehearsed it a dozen times before in front of a mirror, including the B-movie-/advertising-style over-the-top facial expressions that anyone with a two-digit IQ will most definitely fall for, while those with an IQ in the three-digit range would be rather inclined to raise an eyebrow — and a red flag.

As the man in your last video here-above said — and as I myself wrote higher up as well — we all know and have known for many years that this stuff is true, but there's that, and then there's this David Grusch character. Something's not right with this picture.

One thing that I now also feel I should mention and that I omitted from my copy/paste job in the opening post is that the comments underneath the photos of David Grusch in the original article at The Debrief all stated that his photos were his copyright and could not be published anywhere without his permission. In and of itself, that, to me, had a bit of a Corey Goode feeling about it. :hmm:

To be continued, I guess... :unsure: :noidea:

The 'all of a sudden' is the host's 'twist' to spit out HIS own agenda. gawd! We should be able to recognize such things by now. Not that it is by definition all wrong, it is just agendized and political and really chaps my hide.

The endpoint of the interview brings up my 'opinion' of 'captured alien craft'. Not 'captured' but 'donated'. Sorry but this interview is so off the alien beam that it shouldn't even exist. This kind of stuff is completely contrary to serious investigation and just perpetuates the eternal struggle of the Hegelian Dialectic. It is distressing to me.

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 10:45

Or a support rally in the public opinion for more military spending on the US Space Force. You know, "Alienses are bad. We must kills them before they kills us." :rolleyes:

In the USA, "Obstruction of Justice" can mean whatever The Powers That Be™ would want it to mean, given that they've time and again failed to demonstrate a clear comprehension of what exactly entails justice.

it was called 'campaign fraud' and the right called it 'selective justice' :noidea:

Aragorn

7th June 2023, 11:08

it was called 'campaign fraud' and the right called it 'selective justice' :noidea:

That is not what I was alluding to, but thank you for successfully introducing the US's internal bipartisan war into a thread where it had thus far — preposterously, I know — managed to remain unmentioned for a whole 16 posts. :rolleyes:

:frusty:

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 12:55

That is not what I was alluding to, but thank you for successfully introducing the US's internal bipartisan war into a thread where it had thus far — preposterously, I know — managed to remain unmentioned for a whole 16 posts. :rolleyes:

:frusty:

No, No, No, Aragorn...that video introduced the 'usual suspects', I just followed up with it. That was my point about going outside the realm of 'serious investigation' into agendas. I hate this more than you do, trust me! Alienses is one thing I DO take seriously.

Aragorn

7th June 2023, 15:39

Ross Coulthart discusses the background of the interview — 58 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQjbFZT9_EM

Fred Steeves

7th June 2023, 17:45

Nevertheless, this information coming from genuine intelligence community whistleblowers — as opposed to the so-called "Alternative Community™" charlatans we've been witnessing and enduring over these past 20+ years — is quite the bombshell,

....

Okay, serious observations here. What exactly is Grusch bringing to the table, besides more talk, and promises of more... period?

Below is listed every sentence where it "appears" he's giving some tantalizing information, when in fact he's giving us nothing more than the long line of Alternative Community "whistleblowers" have given us, which is a whole lot of talk and story telling.

- A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.

The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time.

Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.

Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors.

“We are not talking about prosaic origins or identities,” Grusch said, referencing information he provided Congress and the current ICIG. “The material includes intact and partially intact vehicles.”

“A number of well-placed current and former officials have shared detailed information with me regarding this alleged program, including insights into the history, governing documents and the location where a craft was allegedly abandoned and recovered,” Mellon said.

An unclassified version of the complaint provided to us states that Grusch has direct knowledge that UAP-related classified information has been withheld and/or concealed from Congress by “elements” of the intelligence community “to purposely and intentionally thwart legitimate Congressional oversight of the UAP Program.” All testimony Grusch provided for the classified complaint was provided under oath.

Beginning in 2022, Grusch provided Congress with hours of recorded classified information transcribed into hundreds of pages which included specific data about the materials recovery program. Congress has not been provided with any physical materials related to wreckage or other non-human objects.

According to the unclassified complaint, in July 2021, Grusch had confidentially provided classified information to the Department of Defense Inspector General concerning the withholding of UAP-related information from Congress. He believed that his identity, and the fact that he had provided testimony, were disclosed “to individuals and/or entities” within the Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community outside the IG’s office. He did not allege that this information was improperly disclosed by any member of that office.

As a result, Grusch suffered months of retaliation and reprisals related to these disclosures beginning in 2021. He asked that details of these reprisals be withheld to protect the integrity of the ongoing investigation.

According to Grusch, certain information which he obtained in his investigation could not be put before Congressional staffers because they did not have the necessary clearances or the appropriate investigative authority.

“A vast array of our most sophisticated sensors, including space-based platforms, have been utilized by different agencies, typically in triplicate, to observe and accurately identify the out-of-this-world nature, performance, and design of these anomalous machines, which are then determined not to be of earthly origin,” Grey said.
https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

Remember this guy? He's still got "whistleblowers" out there doing (evidence free) story telling as well:

Historic press event on UAP/UFO disclosure in Washington, DC

WASHINGTON, May 24, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Dr. Steven M. Greer, founder of the Disclosure Project and one of the world's leading authorities on the UFO/UAP issue, will be presenting definitive evidence of illegal unacknowledged black budget projects related to UFO/UAP operations in Washington DC – 2pm on JUNE 12, 2023 at the National Press Club.

Story Time:

He will be joined by several top-secret Government whistleblowers, who will be presenting compelling testimony. These whistleblowers include a U.S. Marine who witnessed a manmade UAP offloading illegal weapons and drugs in Indonesia in 2009.

The Disclosure intelligence UFO archive, consisting of over 5 terabytes of government documents, whistleblower testimony and specific locations of illegally operated UFO projects and corporations will also be unveiled. Over 700 military, intelligence and corporate whistleblowers are included in this vast archive.

Additionally, some of the 119 crash/retrieval events of extraterrestrial vehicles will be summarized and presented. The Disclosure Archive contains intelligence on all these cases.

A summary of advanced energy and propulsion technologies that have been illegally confiscated and suppressed will be presented.

Over the course of the last 30 years, Dr. Greer has identified over 700 high-level government and corporate whistleblowers willing to testify on their direct involvement with the UFO/ET matter, advanced energy and propulsion systems and the existence of covert government programs that are run illegally.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/historic-press-event-uap-ufo-210400351.html

My continuing question?

Where's the beef?

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 18:32

This is precisely why 'verification and validation' is an important part of deciphering ANY message.

Aragorn

7th June 2023, 18:41

Okay, serious observations here. What exactly is Grusch bringing to the table, besides more talk, and promises of more... period?

I'm not saying the guy is legit, Fred — I've already vocalized my own impressions and reservations higher up the thread — but the fact that this is a mainstream guy with credible (and proven) qualifications does raise my expectations that this is going to go somewhere, as opposed to Greer and his woo-woo stories. Greer doesn't even make any efforts at contacting any mainstream news media, limiting himself to fringe media only, as long as they let him think he's a hero of some sorts — which within the so-called Alternative Community™ he is, sort of.

Sure, there were the Disclosure Witnesses back in 2001, but none of those were truly people from within the upper echelons of the US military-industrial complex, and Greer seems to have mostly abandoned them many years ago — leaving things into the hands of Stephen Bassett, who also doesn't quite have both of his feet on the ground — while pursuing only the woo-woo stuff and supporting himself at that with testimonies from questionable witnesses.

The full interview with Grusch will be published somewhere within the coming week, and what has been shown of it so far were only teasers. So let's just wait until after the publication of the full interview before we cast any judgment. :noidea:

Fred Steeves

7th June 2023, 19:26

I'm not saying the guy is legit, Fred — I've already vocalized my own impressions and reservations higher up the thread — but the fact that this is a mainstream guy with credible (and proven) qualifications does raise my expectations that this is going to go somewhere, as opposed to Greer and his woo-woo stories.

Oh come on now, there's been too many to shake a stick at brother.

There's no shortage of people in Alternative Media that have plenty of mainstream credentials. Three of them were in BR's Project Serpo behind the scenes "Team Of Five": Hal Puthoff (NSA), Richard Doty (AFOSI), Christopher Green (CIA). There's been many others, generals, colonels, alphabet soup, etc.

Greer doesn't even make any efforts at contacting any mainstream news media, limiting himself to fringe media only,

Historic press event on UAP/UFO disclosure in Washington, DC

WASHINGTON, May 24, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Dr. Steven M. Greer, founder of the Disclosure Project and one of the world's leading authorities on the UFO/UAP issue, will be presenting definitive evidence of illegal unacknowledged black budget projects related to UFO/UAP operations in Washington DC – 2pm on JUNE 12, 2023 at the National Press Club.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/historic-press-event-uap-ufo-210400351.html

June 12, 2023 - National Press Club - No small potatoes.
https://www.press.org/events/event-calendar

And back in 2001 - he's been out there.
https://www.worldcat.org/title/52741633

The full interview with Grusch will be published somewhere within the coming week, and what has been shown of it so far were only teasers. So let's just wait until after the publication of the full interview before we cast any judgment. :noidea:

Okay, I'll for sure watch it. But I predict we get nothing more than we already have, which is hearsay, stories, and people in certain little clicks running around vouching for each other. Just like all the Alternative whistleblowers. The two realms may not be all that much dissimilar any more, the lines are really getting blurred.

Emil El Zapato

7th June 2023, 20:52

For Whatever It's Worth:

On the other side of the coin: Paul Hellyer, Minister of Defence had no first-hand info, just 'stories' he was told. He ended up in my crackpot barrel before it was all said and done. But you are right, Aragorn...all we can do is wait and see with a healthy, very healthy skepticism.

Despite the sneering words of Juan DeSouza, Coulthart is a very respectable journalist in a pretty sketchy field of work.

Octopus Garden

7th June 2023, 22:36

Very good information there. :like

One thing that I now also feel I should mention and that I omitted from my copy/paste job in the opening post is that the comments underneath the photos of David Grusch in the original article at The Debrief all stated that his photos were his copyright and could not be published anywhere without his permission. In and of itself, that, to me, had a bit of a Corey Goode feeling about it. :hmm:

To be continued, I guess... :unsure: :noidea:

Funny you should say that. Do you mean his own pix of himself? Today, on Twitter, Steven Greer started a thread that started out with the same posed pic of Grusche that's been circulating recently. Under the pic Greer tweets that words to the effect that he mentored Grusche! OMG.

Grusche has asked Greer specifically not to use his name to endorse his upcoming Disclosure dog and pony show. I doubt he would want this pic associated with the event either. That would be worse.

From reading between the lines it looks like Greer invited himself to speak to Grusche, talked a lot, but made zero impression on him. Grusche would have been well aware of him and further to that warned not to take him seriously by Gary Nolan, Chris Melon, Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal.

Greer has found himself a parade and is marching in front of it. Such a narcissist!

Octopus Garden

7th June 2023, 22:46

The witnesses Grusch spoke to testified under oath, about what they had seen. This is a far cry from some of the nitwits in the alternative community grifting for money.

They risk a lot, as they could end up cannon fodder in the war between agencies hidden deep within the Pentagon and agencies within the Pentagon that are more transparent and network more with elected officials or higher ups appointed by elected officials.

Octopus Garden

7th June 2023, 22:56

It could turn out to be an elaborate set-up, worthy of Richard Doty, but I'll wait and see.

Aragorn

8th June 2023, 09:34

It could turn out to be an elaborate set-up, worthy of Richard Doty, but I'll wait and see.

I guess it's time to break out the popcorn buckets. :p :popc: :popc: :popc:

Aragorn

9th June 2023, 19:41

Michio Kaku shares his thoughts on (what is known so far of) the matter. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGSAdNAWByk

Emil El Zapato

9th June 2023, 21:24

Michio Kaku shares his thoughts on (what is known so far of) the matter. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGSAdNAWByk

I saw that on youtube last night...but I couldn't get myself to watch it. I was still in mourning over the way he was treated in that panel discussion. It could be that his heart and intuition will get him farther and quicker than a 'strict' scientist.

I was taking a Bible class in another incarnation of college (When I finally got an undergrad I had over 200 class hours...so there just might be hope for the professional student after all) and I related to the Jesuit Priest instructor that I had read a Reader's Digest article years before about emerging knowledge in theoretical physics that ended with this statement: "It is like the scientist has scaled the heights and when at the summit they looked over the edge and they saw a mystic sitting there and he said: "I told you so". The priest wanted me to get a copy for him but I never did.

Emil El Zapato

10th June 2023, 10:01

I really wanted to use the Hill as the source of this but oh well. If this is true, it really is a breathtaking development. I keep thinking about the Fermi Paradox. One will have to start wondering just how much of the last 75 years of bizarre reports are true. I've been waiting for 60 years for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMwheQC5Yhs

Aragorn

10th June 2023, 11:40

I keep thinking about the Fermi Paradox.

Considering the thousands of UFO sightings and contactee/abductee reports — and trusting in the premise that not every single one of them would be a crackpot or a person stupid enough to conflate swamp gas, the planet Venus or a weather balloon with an actual extraterrestrial craft — I've always considered the Fermi Paradox a form of sticking one's head in the sand like an ostrich, or sticking one's fingers in one's ears like a child going "Na na na na na na, I can't hear you!"

Furthermore, it has until recently always been an unspoken rule in mainstream journalism that anyone who brings up the subject of UFOs should be publicly mocked and ridiculed. And some of the government-assigned debunkers would upon being confronted with the indisputable evidence almost go so far as to say something along the lines of "Yes, I will admit that it's not made of a material we have here on Earth, and yes, I will admit it doesn't have a propulsion system of the kinds we have here on Earth, but it's not extraterrestrials." As if it cannot be, due to some mysterious irrefutable evidence from who-knows-where that we would indeed be all alone in the universe.

One will have to start wondering just how much of the last 75 years of bizarre reports are true.

Yes, indeed. And I suspect that the percentage will be quite high. Definitely not the full 100% — because the world is full of crackpots — but I reckon at least some 60-70%.

I've been waiting for 60 years for this.

I too have always wondered when we were going to meet them, ever since I was a little boy. I grew up with sci-fi movies and series, although in those days — and especially in the small backwater village where I grew up — people's imagination reached no farther than that UFOs would have been coming from Mars. ;)

Emil El Zapato

10th June 2023, 11:58

Considering the thousands of UFO sightings and contactee/abductee reports — and trusting in the premise that not every single one of them would be a crackpot or a person stupid enough to conflate swamp gas, the planet Venus or a weather balloon with an actual extraterrestrial craft — I've always considered the Fermi Paradox a form of sticking one's head in the sand like an ostrich, or sticking one's fingers in one's ears like a child going "Na na na na na na, I can't hear you!"

Furthermore, it has until recently always been an unspoken rule in mainstream journalism that anyone who brings up the subject of UFOs should be publicly mocked and ridiculed. And some of the government-assigned debunkers would upon being confronted with the indisputable evidence almost go so far as to say something along the lines of "Yes, I will admit that it's not made of a material we have here on Earth, and yes, I will admit it doesn't have a propulsion system of the kinds we have here on Earth, but it's not extraterrestrials." As if it cannot be, due to some mysterious irrefutable evidence from who-knows-where that we would indeed be all alone in the universe.

Yes, indeed. And I suspect that the percentage will be quite high. Definitely not the full 100% — because the world is full of crackpots — but I reckon at least some 60-70%.

I too have always wondered when we were going to meet them, ever since I was a little boy. I grew up with sci-fi movies and series, although in those days — and especially in the small backwater village where I grew up — people's imagination reached no farther than that UFOs would have been coming from Mars. ;)

yes, everything you say seems pretty accurate. While watching the Hill report last night one thing occurred to me. Interdimensional?! But then the report says 'nuts and bolts'. Maybe both are the same which would be even wilder. Physical transportation from other dimensions? It makes Michio Kaku look a little less foolish and that is the value of an 'open' mind.

Aragorn

10th June 2023, 12:35

yes, everything you say seems pretty accurate. While watching the Hill report last night one thing occurred to me. Interdimensional?! But then the report says 'nuts and bolts'. Maybe both are the same which would be even wilder. Physical transportation from other dimensions? It makes Michio Kaku look a little less foolish and that is the value of an 'open' mind.

Well, considering that they move non-relativistically and that they can traverse interstellar space in little time, there definitely has to be an interdimensional aspect to it. And this then begs the question to what extent. Is it only their propulsion system, or are they themselves interdimensional as well?

Questions, questions... :hmm:

Aragorn

11th June 2023, 15:22

The latest update from NewsNation below. Apparently they will be broadcasting the entire interview at 21:00 EST tonight. Due to the timezone difference, it'll be 03:00 over here in Belgium at that point, and I've got an appointment with the neurologist tomorrow as a followup to the brain scan last Tuesday.

This meeting with the neurologist will take place at the hospital in the nearby city — the one where I spent three days between Boxing Day and New Year's Eve in 2022. The hospital has an underground parking garage, but it's still difficult to find a spot there, and in addition to that, I am having some electrical problems with the engine management system of my car, so I have to make sure that I set off early enough. And as if that's not all, we're having a heatwave over here right now, with a predicted temperature of 31°C tomorrow, and my car sleeps outside, so it'll be an oven by the time I set off.

Anyway, all of the above just so as to say that I won't be able to watch this interview in real-time, because I want to go to bed early in order not to miss my appointment with the neurologist. But just as a preliminary opinion, I will say that I stick with my initial impressions regarding David Grusch's body language and facial expressions.

I do believe that what he says is true — we've all known about this, haven't we? — but I also do feel that he's got an agenda and that he comes across as a narcissist. His facial expressions and body language in front of the camera are worse than those of a bad B-movie actor, and more in line with how an attention-starved person would act in front of a camera. Or a bad PR guy in a propaganda campaign.

I'm pretty certain that the US government does indeed possess alien technology — and they won't be the only such government — but I can only guess as to David Grusch's motives. It could be anything from as simple as that he wants to be the next Steven Greer — speaking of narcissists — all the way over to some US-military agenda involving public acceptance of the active use of "exotic" technology in the battlefield, or perhaps as a scarecrow pointed at the Russians and the Chinese that if and when push comes to shove, the USA has the technology to beat them, or perhaps a rally for extra funding for the weaponization of space.

Either way, Grusch has an agenda. I don't know yet what it is, but it's there, trust me. :hmm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvTsHzYwoRM

Emil El Zapato

11th June 2023, 16:57

Aragorn

11th June 2023, 17:48

There is an agenda or he wouldn't be in the place he is. I read his body language a little differently. Admittedly his look could be construed as narcissism, but if you notice the cast of his head as he talks, you might notice the tilt...that tilt is insecurity, quite possibly because of camera shyness or maybe just stress that what he is doing could backfire in a big way.

That's not how I read it at all. To me, that tilt of his head and his exaggerated cranial movements when he answers those questions indicate the exact opposite, i.e. that he's feeling very secure, and very comfortable in his shoes — too comfortable, actually.

Of course, his motives are one thing, and the information he brings forth is another. I'm mainly interested in the latter, and as the information is being revealed, we will then also get a better idea of the former. :hmm:

Emil El Zapato

11th June 2023, 20:45

That's not how I read it at all. To me, that tilt of his head and his exaggerated cranial movements when he answers those questions indicate the exact opposite, i.e. that he's feeling very secure, and very comfortable in his shoes — too comfortable, actually.

Of course, his motives are one thing, and the information he brings forth is another. I'm mainly interested in the latter, and as the information is being revealed, we will then also get a better idea of the former. :hmm:

True 'dat ... you sound pretty confident, that makes me worry... :)

Octopus Garden

11th June 2023, 23:10

Yeah, I picked up on the body language right away. Wouldn't surprise me he has narcissistic psychopathic traits. Seemed over confident considering the circumstances. I would expect just the slightest expression of wariness coming through.

But people who rise to a high level in intelligence circles often have the warrior gene, are somewhat fearless. Likely the reason they persist is they are rewarded with mating opportunities in societies that value ground breaking and novelty seeking.

It makes sense he's a bit of a psycho and also telling the truth and is uniquely positioned in all ways, including genetics to do so.

A ground breaker describing the literal ground breaking phenomenon of a crash retrieval is like a cosmic wink.

Emil El Zapato

12th June 2023, 08:48

The Black Vault:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64B6r6HsL58

Emil El Zapato

12th June 2023, 09:11

Aragorn

12th June 2023, 09:57

Bear in mind that I'm not that good about body language (facial), I've done a number of tests and usually do miserably, but I did notice the contradictory head shakes and the 'pursing of the lips' which was my true first impression...I'm going to go further and say, I think the head shakes might be due to the fact that he knows he is in the 'role of a whistleblower' but I believe he is being sanctioned by the powers that be. Additionally, he is not convinced that what he has been 'told' is the truth but he is moving forward with it. One peculiar thing about government and security is that they might say "Yeah, go ahead and do this" and then set him up as a patsy, thus the alleged mistreatment.

Yes, the chances of this actually being a government-orchestrated campaign are very real. :hmm: :eyebrows:

Either way, I'm only quickly dropping in now to post the entire interview while I myself am watching it — it's 42 minutes in length — because I have to scoot out the door after that, and I probably won't be back until later tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ceEJUnETo

Fred Steeves

12th June 2023, 11:45

Some noted I made while watching this:

11:28 - Inspector General has the proof, I have the credentials

12:30 - Speculation about interdimensional travel

16:00 - Can't talk about Roswell

18:00 - Reason for secrecy is feudalistic dominance who can have asymmetric dominance for fueling the war machine

23:00 - Says videos released thus far are just the tip of the ice burgh

27:45 - Malevolent activity has occurred

29:00 - In a competition with our adversaries to understand this

33:45 - I don't want fame or fortune, I'm just here to provide public leadership on an issue I uncovered and I found was totally fucking outrageous.

34:55 - This is not a lie

35:00 - I am for real, and I'm sitting here at great personal risk, and obvious professional risk

36:00 - (Essentially) all the evidence checked out

37:50 - Interviewer: "The word credible is important. An official, investigatory body of the United States government has determined that your allegations are credible"./

Grusch: "Correct"

Tease: "Coming up. If it is true, then what, what are we going to do if the biggest secret on the planet, is now out in the open? And what are they, going to do?"

The rest: Grusch wants change. Is starting a foundation. Is willing to further debrief down to the finest details. Wants a pause to see if this information can unite us.

Emil El Zapato

12th June 2023, 11:50

Yes, the chances of this actually being a government-orchestrated campaign are very real. :hmm: :eyebrows:

Either way, I'm only quickly dropping in now to post the entire interview while I myself am watching it — it's 42 minutes in length — because I have to scoot out the door after that, and I probably won't be back until later tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_ceEJUnETo

Great thnx, same for me ... another repeat dental surgery this morning. :(

Aragorn

12th June 2023, 18:31

33:45 - I don't want fame or fortune, I'm just here to provide public leadership on an issue I uncovered and I found was totally fucking outrageous.

That particular line had me raising an eyebrow. Can you say "narcissism?" :sarcastic:

modwiz

13th June 2023, 02:45

Dr. Michael Salla. Didn't he join the Blue Chicken story for a while?

Clayton, (most news people are clueless about UFO's,) speaks to Salla for his opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rooWYPP9yCc

modwiz

13th June 2023, 04:45

Steven Greer at a lengthy UFO disclosure presentation from earlier today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDY7t6HihCw

modwiz

13th June 2023, 09:10

Emil El Zapato

13th June 2023, 10:13

That particular line had me raising an eyebrow. Can you say "narcissism?" :sarcastic:

I can see that, but on the other hand, he is a private/government sector leader, it is just one ugly step to a narcissistic public sector leader.

Fred Steeves

13th June 2023, 11:13

Steven Greer at a lengthy UFO disclosure presentation from earlier today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDY7t6HihCw

Damn, major red flag at only 47 seconds in, he gives the "EBENS" a shout out straight away.

Hello Project Serpo and Zeta Reticuli, maybe we'll be seeing BR and his buddy Richard Doty back out on the circuit after all :flame:
https://aliens.fandom.com/wiki/Eben

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPS4LyveJs

Aragorn

13th June 2023, 11:53

Dr. Michael Salla. Didn't he join the Blue Chicken story for a while?

Oh, absolutely! He was one of Blue Chicken Man™'s biggest defenders.

(most news people are clueless about UFO's,)

They're actually clueless about just about everything outside of politics and social drama. :sarcastic:

Emil El Zapato

13th June 2023, 12:39

The presentation has some really strong stuff, even stronger than the one he did in 2001. I don't know how seemingly Greer could go so far off the rails in the intervening time. I hope he isn't making fools of all of us again. It could be that his begging for money could be legit. I doubt he is personally hurting for funds but big projects can require big money. I still can't get over his panhandling for money to do a genetic test on a purported extraterrestrial. That really makes no sense. Unless the apparent silly contradictions were planned. But there WAS money involved.

Oh, absolutely! He was one of Blue Chicken Man™'s biggest defenders.

They're actually clueless about just about everything outside of politics and social drama. :sarcastic:

True, watching a back and forth between two talking heads last night on the 'Hill', it was obvious that the con truth guy had done no research, yet he was up there spouting contrary points that a child should have known better than put forth.

Octopus Garden

14th June 2023, 01:26

Salla was a Blue Chicken Nugget? Oh man...fade him fast!

Octopus Garden

14th June 2023, 01:35

The above video was really good. One, not too much Greer:) Two, very little about ET.

Three, some mind-blowing whistle-blowing. Much better than I expected.

This was gritty stuff. Check it out. I listened at 1.25X speed.

Yes, saw one of the whistle blowers involved on You Tube's Witness Citizen. Can look it up, if its not part of Greer's conference.

Greer kind of makes my flesh crawl. His personality mainly. The fact that his face, through steroid use, makes him look like a throw-back, doesn't enhance his appeal. blecchhh

.:abduct:

Emil El Zapato

14th June 2023, 13:48

Reptilian?

Wind

14th June 2023, 14:57

Reptilian?

Yeah, my thoughts too. He has a hard time fitting in that skin suit of his.

H_bnRD7aaok

Aragorn

28th June 2023, 14:31

Emil El Zapato

28th June 2023, 15:50

Congress doubles down on explosive claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs. (https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4067865-congress-doubles-down-on-explosive-claims-of-illegal-ufo-retrieval-programs/)

I saw another discussion on NewsNation is it? It is starting to look like a stronger case. It is an amazing thing!

Aragorn

28th June 2023, 16:02

I saw another discussion on NewsNation is it? It is starting to look like a stronger case. It is an amazing thing!

I saw the link to NewsNation and I tried to bring up the page, but all I got was an error page telling me that they are currently blocking visitors from Europe for some allegedly technical reason. :unsure:

And no word about it yet in the European news media. Not a single word ever since Grusch came forward. But then again, sports games and political shenanigans are so much more important — even over here. :facepalm:

Emil El Zapato

28th June 2023, 17:22

I saw the link to NewsNation and I tried to bring up the page, but all I got was an error page telling me that they are currently blocking visitors from Europe for some allegedly technical reason. :unsure:

And no word about it yet in the European news media. Not a single word ever since Grusch came forward. But then again, sports games and political shenanigans are so much more important — even over here. :facepalm:

Well, you'll like this then: the Inspector General said 'send it to congress'. Which is a big go ahead and then a Senator on the Intelligence committee said that he has FIRST HAND reports from some other whistleblowers working in the same areas. ...:drama::chrs::frantic::smiley-dance013::headspin::thup::scp::banana::dan::dog:

oh, well you already knew that ... :)

Aragorn

28th June 2023, 18:23

Well, you'll like this then: the Inspector General said 'send it to congress'. Which is a big go ahead and then a Senator on the Intelligence committee said that he has FIRST HAND reports from some other whistleblowers working in the same areas. ...:drama::chrs::frantic::smiley-dance013::headspin::thup::scp::banana::dan::dog:

oh, well you already knew that ... :)

I really hope this hits the mainstream wholesale. The impact on the way we live our lives would be tremendous, from putting into perspective all the things we fight about, over the making available of reverse-engineered exotic technologies that may and probably will improve the quality of life for everyone, all the way up to the philosophical and scientific implications of the fact that Earth is being visited by intelligent beings from elsewhere.

It would be quite the bombshell — more than anything else — if allowed to become public knowledge. If, because I don't think those who've been sitting on this thing for seven decades or more are going to just roll over and admit their defeat. :hmm:

Fred Steeves

28th June 2023, 18:38

Congress doubles down on explosive claims of illegal UFO retrieval programs. (https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4067865-congress-doubles-down-on-explosive-claims-of-illegal-ufo-retrieval-programs/)

But the Senate Intelligence Committee’s legislation goes significantly further than previous laws. If enacted as drafted, the legislation would immediately halt funding for any secret, unreported programs that engage in “analyzing” retrieved UFOs “for the purpose of determining properties, material composition, method of manufacture, origin, characteristics, usage and application, performance, operational modalities, or reverse engineering of such craft or component technology.”

At the same time, the legislation would cease funding for any personnel engaged in “capturing, recovering, and securing [UFOs] or pieces and components of such craft.”

Funding would also be cut for “the development of propulsion technology, or aerospace craft that uses propulsion technology, systems, or subsystems, that is based on or derived from or inspired by inspection, analysis, or reverse engineering of recovered [UFOs] or materials.”

Perhaps more importantly, the bill language prohibits legal prosecution of individuals with knowledge of surreptitious retrieval and reverse engineering of “non-human” craft. To avoid legal jeopardy, such individuals would have two months after passage of the legislation to inform the director of the Pentagon’s new UFO analysis office of the existence of relevant UFO-related information.

These individuals would then have six months to turn over “all such material and information,” as well as “a comprehensive list of all non-earth origin or exotic [UFO] material.”

I don't think congress has any more say over this, than they do over CIA black ops.

Also, curious that (unsurprisingly) absent amid all the excited media chatter, is any semblance of evidence beyond story telling. Whistleblowers, show me don't tell me. Like the old job site saying: "Don't praise me, raise me". :p

I'm so done with "Shocking Claims":

‘ALIEN PRESS CONFERENCE 2023’ SHOWS DR. STEVEN GREER’S SHOCKING CLAIMS AT UFO/UAP DISCLOSURE EVENT
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2023/06/14/alien-press-conference-2023-shows-dr-steven-greers-shocking-claims-at-ufo-uap-disclosure-event/

Unless, and/or something changes, we have no more evidence than the "Consultant", the "retired US Military Intelligence Officer", and the "author" back in 2005/2006:
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2005-12-06-show/

Wind

28th June 2023, 20:00

What do you think this is? That is NOT a normal cloud nor a plastic bag!

Also there have been other similar things appearing in the sky before.

nRlaWUoAt9w

Aragorn

28th June 2023, 20:12

What do you think this is? That is NOT a normal cloud nor a plastic bag!

Also there have been other similar things appearing in the sky before.

I have seen videos and photos of something like this before. It's a (harmless) byproduct of some industrial process. It looks like a cloud but it's actually a kind of foam. I think it's primarily made up of carbon dioxide, but I'm not sure anymore.

They get lifted up by the wind like soap bubbles and they can get carried away over quite a distance, but inevitably they will descend onto the ground and just sit there until they slowly dissolve.

Wind

28th June 2023, 20:19

I have seen videos and photos of something like this before. It's a (harmless) byproduct of some industrial process. It looks like a cloud but it's actually a kind of foam. I think it's primarily made up of carbon dioxide, but I'm not sure anymore.

Maybe it is, but what explains the blinking lights? Also the movement seems intelligent.

I wonder why things like the Phoenix Lights hasn't ever gathered more attention.

N1fW1l1sh-A

Emil El Zapato

28th June 2023, 20:31

I really hope this hits the mainstream wholesale. The impact on the way we live our lives would be tremendous, from putting into perspective all the things we fight about, over the making available of reverse-engineered exotic technologies that may and probably will improve the quality of life for everyone, all the way up to the philosophical and scientific implications of the fact that Earth is being visited by intelligent beings from elsewhere.

It would be quite the bombshell — more than anything else — if allowed to become public knowledge. If, because I don't think those who've been sitting on this thing for seven decades or more are going to just roll over and admit their defeat. :hmm:

Between you and I, I am having a hard time believing that it could be real. Wow! Nah, it's not possible...

Maybe it is, but what explains the blinking lights? Also the movement seems intelligent.

I wonder why things like the Phoenix Lights hasn't ever gathered more attention.

N1fW1l1sh-A

Do you remember me mentioning that I was actually in Phoenix the week that it happened? I was there for a job interview (It went very badly) but I had rented a car and was going to take a drive into those mountains but after a short while, I changed my mind and turned around. I didn't want to stray too far. I didn't know it was going on for at least a few years. But I remember it being hot as hell, at least during the day...like an oven even.

I have seen videos and photos of something like this before. It's a (harmless) byproduct of some industrial process. It looks like a cloud but it's actually a kind of foam. I think it's primarily made up of carbon dioxide, but I'm not sure anymore.

They get lifted up by the wind like soap bubbles and they can get carried away over quite a distance, but inevitably they will descend onto the ground and just sit there until they slowly dissolve.

Lenticular clouds.

Wind

28th June 2023, 20:33

I'm starting to think that the "big" thing Steve Judd and astrologers have been talking about could be this.

As 2025 would be the start of the new age... So something like the reveal of ufos would change everything.

Do you remember me mentioning that I was actually in Phoenix the week that it happened? I was there for a job interview (It went very badly) but I had rented a car and was going to take a drive into those mountains but after a short while, I changed my mind and turned around.

I don't remember that, but perhaps you should have gone there and your worldview might have been changed.

I have researched that thing a lot too and heard many testimonies. A massive, silent, triangle shaped object hovering low.

If mankind has something like that then I'd like to know, but I don't think it would be possible. It had to be an alien craft.

Aragorn

28th June 2023, 20:47

I have seen videos and photos of something like this before. It's a (harmless) byproduct of some industrial process. It looks like a cloud but it's actually a kind of foam. I think it's primarily made up of carbon dioxide, but I'm not sure anymore.

They get lifted up by the wind like soap bubbles and they can get carried away over quite a distance, but inevitably they will descend onto the ground and just sit there until they slowly dissolve.

Maybe it is, but what explains the blinking lights? Also the movement seems intelligent.

I didn't see any blinking lights, and I've watched it twice, full-screen. What I did see was that there were sunlight reflections — it is after all a foam — and you can see the whole thing getting darker and looking dirtier as it descends below the other clouds.

The movement was just due to the impact of the wind and the turbulence at lower altitude. It was perfectly consistent with how foam moves through the air. ;)

I wonder why things like the Phoenix Lights hasn't ever gathered more attention.

It was ridiculed by the governor and debunked by the US military, who had allegedly been dropping flares from a plane a few hours earlier. And there is indeed footage of those flares being released, but the actual footage of the Phoenix Lights themselves looks very different from that of the flares.

Something big was up there in the sky that night, and there were too many credible witnesses, similar to the Belgian UFO flap of 1989-1990. Tens of thousands of witnesses on the ground, including thousands of gendarmes and hundreds of military personnel from Belgium and the Netherlands — it was just near the border with the Netherlands, and it was also picked up by both Belgian and Dutch military air controllers and radars, the latter from a base under direct NATO control. But unlike in the US, our military here was completely transparent about it, and showed the combat radar footage of the two pursuing F-16s during a press conference on TV that very same evening.

So I'm guessing that the US military was just jerking its knees — whether they were complicit in the cover-up or not — just as they had categorically been denying the existence of UFOs for decades already, notwithstanding that in many cases they could not offer up anything even remotely plausible as a prosaic explanation.

I have seen videos and photos of something like this before. It's a (harmless) byproduct of some industrial process. It looks like a cloud but it's actually a kind of foam. I think it's primarily made up of carbon dioxide, but I'm not sure anymore.

They get lifted up by the wind like soap bubbles and they can get carried away over quite a distance, but inevitably they will descend onto the ground and just sit there until they slowly dissolve.

Lenticular clouds.

No, it's not a lenticular cloud. It's foam, as I said.

I am now beginning to remember more details about it, albeit not everything yet. It is foam originating from the chemical cleaning of something. So it's essentially just a kind of soap foam, but somewhat denser and more cohesive than your typical household variety.

Fred Steeves

28th June 2023, 21:26

I'm starting to think that the "big" thing Steve Judd and astrologers have been talking about could be this.

As 2025 would be the start of the new age... So something like the reveal of ufos would change everything.

I thought disclosure was now? The bodies, the wreckage, the back engineered craft.

It's like trying to catch a mirage. In 2025, we'll be within just a couple years of disclosure. Say, 2028 when the official reveal will be penciled in. But then 2028 rolls around and, well, something came up but a nice even 2030 for sure!

Like in Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle":

You know we'll have a good time then

Then. Never Now.

Wind

28th June 2023, 21:30

I thought disclosure was now? The bodies, the wreckage, the back engineered craft.

You mean this is the disclosure? To us UFO enthusiasts this is nothing new. Aliens always have been here.

I think "they" are already preparing the masses of people for a soft disclosure and then a full blown one in the near future.

I don't see the future nor do I know why the US military has been given the green light, but obviously there must be some reason.

We can only venture out to guess what that might be. Perhaps they know that something is about to happen in the near future.

Aragorn

28th June 2023, 21:36

I thought disclosure was now? The bodies, the wreckage, the back engineered craft.

I know what you're saying, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here, Brother.

What is happening here is that a high-ranking military official is coming forward, as has happened before, but this time he's being backed by the Inspector-General and some other high-ranking officials, and that has not happened before.

Things are on a roll now with regard to how Congress is responding to tthis, because now it is coming to light that this kind of stuff is happening behind their backs, and even behind the regular military's own investigation into the phenomenon. That's a stinker.

It therefore stands to reason that a Congressional investigation could bring more of this stuff to the surface, which would then indeed lead to the physical evidence and legal proceedings against the private businesses that are stockpiling the, um, "vehicles of non-human origins" and that have been and still are complicit in the cover-up. And maybe they will even get to the bodies, if the military-industrial complex does not dispose of those first in an attempt to minimize the damage to their covert operations.

It's like trying to catch a mirage. In 2025, we'll be within just a couple years of disclosure. Say, 2028 when the official reveal will be penciled in. But then 2028 rolls around and, well, something came up but a nice even 2030 for sure!

Like in Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle":

I only know this particular version of the song, but it's a good cover nevertheless. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQVfKS7ukiE

:back to topic: ;)

Fred Steeves

28th June 2023, 23:13

You mean this is the disclosure? To us UFO enthusiasts this is nothing new. Aliens always have been here.

Then surely, ufo enthusiasts are well aware the field of ufology, is easily the most corrupted field of study on Conspiracy Avenue?

There's also this: It's better to be a stone cold researcher rather than an enthusiast, makes it more difficult to get taken advantage of by those who would pull strings. Like I remember Mr. UFO Disinformation himself Richard Doty saying similar, but about flag waving patriots, because they gave people like him an easier "in". Just approach in a manner that appeals to their patriotism.

I think "they" are already preparing the masses of people for a soft disclosure and then a full blown one in the near future.

Okay, but this is what "they've" been saying for years, and now it's still being said.

Then there's also the ones who say disclosure has already happened:

Col. John Alexander Plants UFO Doubts in New Book: Exclusive Interview

UFO believers have linked retired Army Col. John Alexander to everything from military abductions to mind control. Now, Alexander, who served as a Green Beret in Vietnam, tells the story of the Advanced Theoretical Physics Group, an informal band of government officials who took it upon themselves to find out whether there was a secret federal UFO project. UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities (Thomas Dunne Books, St. Martin's Press) is likely to infuriate both believers and skeptics. Alexander says there was, in the end, no government conspiracy to cover up reports on UFOs, but he also insists that enough credible UFO sightings have been documented to warrant a closer look. Alexander spoke to Popular Mechanics about his new book.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/a6488/colonel-john-alexander-plants-ufo-doubts-in-new-book/

What is happening here is that a high-ranking military official is coming forward, as has happened before, but this time he's being backed by the Inspector-General and some other high-ranking officials, and that has not happened before.

Things are on a roll now with regard to how Congress is responding to tthis, because now it is coming to light that this kind of stuff is happening behind their backs, and even behind the regular military's own investigation into the phenomenon. That's a stinker.

It therefore stands to reason that a Congressional investigation could bring more of this stuff to the surface, which would then indeed lead to the physical evidence and legal proceedings against the private businesses that are stockpiling the, um, "vehicles of non-human origins" and that have been and still are complicit in the cover-up. And maybe they will even get to the bodies, if the military-industrial complex does not dispose of those first in an attempt to minimize the damage to their covert operations.l

Sorry, but I see a continuing slow roll out to nowhere, and when I see these Primadonna's like Marco Rubio trotting around out there doing little turns on the catwalk for the cameras for something besides war for a change...

You know like when a male dog will sometimes lay there and lick his penis in front of everyone? That. :D

Anyhoos, I continue the vigil right along with you guys, I'm just not holding my breath any more after giving this thing a good long look in the mouth over a number of years.

"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice (or 20 times) shame on me". That's what mama taught little Freddie.

Emil El Zapato

29th June 2023, 12:23

Desensitization would help humanity accept big changes, there has always been a fear that if the truth were known everyone would go kookooboo. And then Orson Welles is cited. Most of that myth doesn't square with the actual events but in any case, the Aliens have been playing peek-a-boo long enough I daresay. I expect nothing to come of it, like even with first-hand knowledge there will be a plethora of hedges such as, 'well, we can't explain it fully yet', 'this sort of alloy is extremely rare and can only be produced in one or two places in the world', 'the genetics are human, which may or may not mean we are related to them'. The worst outcome would be a criminal charge for diverting funds without proper authorization and all for no reason as there are no craft or aliens or multi-dimensionals.

I REALLY hope that doesn't happen, but it is what I expect. Rubber hits the road time and it seems I'm a skeptic. I never would have thunk it, perhaps brainwashing does work, one has to be a pretty thorough die-hard to keep the faith for over a half century.

Wind

29th June 2023, 18:21

there has always been a fear that if the truth were known everyone would go kookooboo.

That's how they justify it.

"Humans, for the most part, don't have a clue.
They don't want one or need one, either.
They're happy. They think they have a good bead on things." ~ Agent K

w2ppyMUlXfM

Octopus Garden

29th June 2023, 22:46

John Alexander is an operative. He is the only guy, besides Richard Doty, involved directly or indirectly in this field I would make this claim about.

Octopus Garden

29th June 2023, 22:54

If you familiarize yourselves with the hitchhiker effect, you will well understand who is ultimately in charge here. It's the beings themselves. If you, or even someone you were close to, got too close to the phenomenon, they'd suffer terrible consequences, in terms of mental harrassment.

Maybe they're now harassing those who are covering up. Those knowingly dismissing it now maybe plagued by odd sensations, synchonicity storms, head aches, bizarre coincidences that occur non-stop and the feeling of being under constant surveillance by something very powerful.
:belief:

Fred Steeves

30th June 2023, 02:56

John Alexander is an operative. He is the only guy, besides Richard Doty, involved directly or indirectly in this field I would make this claim about.

UFOs: Myths, Conspiracies, and Realities
John B. Alexander
Thomas Dunne Books, 2011 - Military research - 305 pages
0 Reviews

"While still on active duty in the U.S. Army during the 1980s, Colonel John B. Alexander, Ph.D. created an interagency group to explore the controversial topic of UFOs. Participants came from the Army, Navy, Air Force, CIA, NSA, DIA, and the aerospace industry. All members held Top Secret clearance. And what they discovered was not at all what was expected. UFOs covers the numerous cases they saw, and answers questions like: ʺWhat was really in Hanger 18? ʺDid a UFO really land at Holloman Air Force Base? ʺWhat happened at Roswell? ʺWhat is Majestic 12? ʺWhat is the Aviary? ʺWhat does the government know about UFOs? ʺWhat has happened with disclosure in other countries? ʺHas the US reverse engineered a UFO? ʺWhy don't presidents get access to UFO info? UFOs is at once a complete account of Alexander's findings, and a call to action. There are no conspiracy theories here--only hard facts--but they are merely the beginning. Serious research is needed in order to understand and anticipate the workings of UFOs, and John Alexander is leading the charge"--Provided by publisher.
https://books.google.com/books/about/UFOs.html?id=HvWGzgEACAAJ

Alexander and Doty were by no means the only alphabet ufo operatives/influencers of their day, they were ensconced into the community then, and even more so now IMO. Not shedding any judgement on them here OG, just pointing out that they were around, they're around now, and not shy about it.

Just for fun. Do we take time to ask ourselves for instance, the origin of much vaunted "top secret material" such as Majestic 12? And why it matters to ask?

Octopus Garden

2nd July 2023, 00:17

Alexander's book is likely full of redirects, blind alleys and disinfo. Doty admits he was an operative, but then, like Lucy with the football and Charlie Brown, says he's reformed and people should believe him now. Credibility is like virginity. You only lose it once.

But, Alexander is the only person I'm aware of that promotes the idea that NHI can create paradigms that will have you believe one thing about them and then switch it up and create different behavior and performances. I mean, the crispy pancake story from the 60's. Why would beings from wherever, fry up breakfast food and offer it to someone? What was that about? High strangeness could be entirely intentional on their part, meant to confuse and put us on the back foot for as long as they like.

Alexander understands this, because this is what he does. He's a trickster.

Octopus Garden

2nd July 2023, 00:27

I thought disclosure was now? The bodies, the wreckage, the back engineered craft.

It's like trying to catch a mirage. In 2025, we'll be within just a couple years of disclosure. Say, 2028 when the official reveal will be penciled in. But then 2028 rolls around and, well, something came up but a nice even 2030 for sure!

Like in Harry Chapin's "Cats in the Cradle":

Then. Never Now.

It's been frustrating, for sure. And absolutely like chasing a mirage, or trying to find the end of a rainbow. Maybe the craft are psychotronic on such a primary level, that they may as well have come right out of a dream, or be solidified thought forms. They may be able to dream or imagine themselves and their craft (which may be more like an extension of their bodies) into being. Truly magic materializations.

Fred Steeves

2nd July 2023, 02:16

I mean, the crispy pancake story from the 60's. Why would beings from wherever, fry up breakfast food and offer it to someone? What was that about? High strangeness could be entirely intentional on their part, meant to confuse and put us on the back foot for as long as they like.

I'd never heard that story, had to look it up. You know that's perfect, because the picture of Joe Simonton holding an alien pancake in his hand from all those years ago, ultimately yields no more evidence than David Grusch's stories thus far.
https://www.cultofweird.com/ufo-sightings/wisconsin-alien-pancakes/

Again, I'm not sniffing around here looking for every opportunity to squat and shit on a ufo story; but I have every reason to believe there's a world of difference between the world of genuine ufo's, and the conveyor belt of shit "The Disclosure Movement" drip feeds us into oblivion over the decades like the rest of it... :wacko:

It's been frustrating, for sure. And absolutely like chasing a mirage, or trying to find the end of a rainbow. Maybe the craft are psychotronic on such a primary level, that they may as well have come right out of a dream, or be solidified thought forms. They may be able to dream or imagine themselves and their craft (which may be more like an extension of their bodies) into being. Truly magic materializations.

Yes, that must be it! :grin:

Aragorn

8th July 2023, 23:43

If true, this is a bombshell. If not true, then it'll just be another case on the huge pile of shame. :noidea: :popc:

(2 hours 4 minutes)

ZUZUyck6KoU

Fred Steeves

9th July 2023, 02:38

Hating to keep sounding like a broken record brother, but I'm 20 minutes in, and have yet to hear any more than I already have. Should I keep going?

Aragorn

9th July 2023, 14:08

Hating to keep sounding like a broken record brother, but I'm 20 minutes in, and have yet to hear any more than I already have. Should I keep going?

Well, I haven't taken note of any time stamps, but it's where Ross talks about there allegedly being a craft so big that they couldn't even possibly move it if they wanted to, and so they found no better than to construct a building around it in order to hide it. It's not located within the USA, by the way, but as I understand it, it would be in a US-controlled country. :noidea:

Fred Steeves

9th July 2023, 14:41

Oh yeah, that was within the first 20 minutes that I watched. So according to the great journalist Ross Coulthart, us "bleaters" who keep demanding evidence should just stuff a sock in it, believe what these people say is going on, and stop demanding to actually see it. Have total faith in what these piece of shit American politicians like Senator Marco Rubio are saying about it as well.

Ummmm, no...

This is complete opposite of the Glenn Greenwald/Ed Snowden approach to great unveilings. Believe it first, then see it - Maybe.

Emil El Zapato

11th July 2023, 12:06

If true, this is a bombshell. If not true, then it'll just be another case on the huge pile of shame. :noidea: :popc:

(2 hours 4 minutes)

ZUZUyck6KoU

This guy doesn't lie, and he is very wary...After reading his book a year or two ago, I came to the conclusion that this was the guy to pay attention to.

Emil El Zapato

14th July 2023, 11:20

It's a long one but interesting, a bit redundant but anyway...1:26:00. I watched it at ludicrous speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPQjmFK2DfE

Emil El Zapato

18th July 2023, 19:08

This is interesting, it addresses UAP/UFO issues from a 'different' perspective. It isn't flawless but mostly accurate in its descriptions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThmF7OErkxY

Emil El Zapato

20th July 2023, 20:44

BY MARIK VON RENNENKAMPFF

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), along with a bipartisan group of five other senators, introduced extraordinary legislation on July 13, suggesting that the U.S. government or private contractors may secretly possess recovered UFOs and “biological evidence of living or deceased non-human intelligence.”

According to the legislation, “non-human intelligence” is defined as “any sentient intelligent non-human lifeform, regardless of nature or ultimate origin which may be presumed responsible for” UFOs.

Given the decades-long stigma associated with the UFO topic, such stunning language is not included in bipartisan congressional legislation on a mere whim, let alone proposed by the Senate’s top lawmaker.

According to a statement accompanying the legislation, the 2017 disclosure of a previously unknown government UFO analysis program spurred a broad congressional investigation of unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP), the government’s new terminology for UFOs.

The ongoing investigation “uncovered a vast web of individuals and groups” claiming knowledge of secret UAP-related programs and information.

According to Schumer, “the sheer number and variety” of UFO-related claims “led some in Congress to believe that the [U.S. government] was concealing important information regarding UAPs over broad periods of time.” Moreover, as noted in the legislation, “credible evidence and testimony indicates that Federal Government [UFO] records exist that have not been declassified” as required by law.

To that end, Schumer’s legislation establishes an independent nine-member agency to collect, review and declassify UAP records. If passed in its current form, the law would mandate that all government UFO documents “carry a presumption of immediate [public] disclosure.”

The proposed legislation follows explosive allegations by a former intelligence official, David Grusch, that secret UFO retrieval and reverse-engineering programs were illegally hidden from Congress. Importantly, the powerful investigative body that oversees the nation’s intelligence agencies found Grusch’s allegations to be “credible and urgent.” Moreover, the intelligence community’s first inspector general — appointed by President Obama, confirmed by the Senate and now a high-profile attorney in private practice — represented Grusch as he proceeded through the formal whistleblower process.

In an interview with NewsNation, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), vice chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, corroborated the broad contours of both Grusch’s allegations and Schumer’s bipartisan legislation.

According to Rubio, only one of two remarkable outcomes will ultimately explain recent developments, “Either what [Grusch] is saying is partially true or entirely true, or we have some really smart, educated people with high clearances and very important positions in our government who are crazy and are leading us on a goose chase.”

“Most of these people,” Rubio continued, “have held very high clearances and high positions within our government. So, you ask yourself: ‘What incentive would so many people with that kind of qualification — these are serious people — have to come forward and make something up?’”

Asked about the specificity of the allegations, Rubio stated that individuals with “firsthand knowledge or firsthand claims” are “saying to us what you’ve seen out there in the public record, whether it’s about legacy [UFO] programs or about current events.”

Echoing Rubio’s comments and Schumer’s statement, Rep. Mike Gallagher (R-Wis.), who serves on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, stated recently that “all sorts of [UFO whistleblowers] are coming out of the woodwork” and telling Congress that “they’ve been part of this or that [UFO] program.”

According to Gallagher, last year’s enactment of UFO whistleblower protections resulted in “a variety of pretty intense conversations.”

Rubio and Gallagher’s remarkable comments bolster two reports, citing multiple military, intelligence and private sector officials, that defense contractors possess multiple craft of “non-human” origin.

While legislation introduced in June would cut off funding for any secret UFO retrieval and reverse-engineering programs, Sen. Schumer’s proposal goes even further. A provision in the new amendment declares that “any and all recovered [UFOs] and biological evidence of non-human intelligence that may be controlled by private persons or entities” shall be transferred to the U.S. government “in the interests of the public good.”

Moreover, to ensure the eventual release of all government UFO documents and information, the new legislation requires a “Controlled Disclosure Campaign Plan.” In short, if the proposed nine-member review board deems any UAP documents too sensitive to release immediately, such records would be subject to a “benchmark-driven plan” with recommendations for the “exact time” that they “may be appropriately disclosed to the public.”

Following a recommendation from the review board, the legislation establishes the president as the “sole and nondelegable authority to disclose” UFO-related records to the public.

Given this elevation of authority directly to the president, it is likely that the Schumer-led Senate coordinated or consulted with the Biden White House before proposing such extraordinary legislation.

Fortunately, the public may not have to wait for the new legislation to become law to learn more about what the U.S. government knows about UAP. According to Reps. Tim Burchett (R-Tenn.) and Anna Paulina Luna (R-Fla.), the House Oversight Committee will hold a hearing July 26 featuring roughly half a dozen “superstar” witnesses who served in both Democratic and Republican administrations.

As Schumer rightly said, “the American public has a right to learn about technologies of unknown origins, non-human intelligence, and unexplainable phenomena.” Hopefully, the extraordinary legislation enacted and proposed in recent years, in tandem with open congressional hearings, will get to the bottom of the decades-long UFO mystery.

Marik von Rennenkampff served as an analyst with the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of International Security and Nonproliferation, as well as an Obama administration appointee at the U.S. Department of Defense.

Octopus Garden

21st July 2023, 02:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-hCpZcVD50

Emil El Zapato

21st July 2023, 10:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-hCpZcVD50

yeah, I saw this last night...Burchett is quite the 'character' but at least he is on the right side this time... :) I hope that side is sane because it includes me.

Fred Steeves

23rd July 2023, 23:35

So here's how this episode of "Redacted" started out:

Our guest, John Stewart, hand delivered his entire investigation, to Congressman Tim Burchette's office. He's become the first non governmental civilian, to submit a report to the United States Congress, regarding the extraterrestrial phenomena. Incidentally, Burchett's office is right close to here in Knoxville.

If this information is indeed going to become an official part of the UAP congressional investigation, then OMG, there's no one up above who's at all interested in checking out his sources. Not that it would be of any great surprise mind you, but interesting none the less, considering...

From the notes I jotted down while watching it:

His sources are Sean David Morton , Richard Doty, Michael Salla, Linda Moulton Howe - Steven Greer and Project Aquarius/Dan Burisch get an honorable mention.

Has anyone been hearing about some congressman seeing something that struck him so profound, it left his hands shaking? Supposedly LOL, it was this dark grainy video that shook him.

Ex 4 star general and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell, was one of the doctors in the video.

He's saying this is all about "Majestic" (which was Doty's baby more or less, same as "Project Serpo".

He calls the video "The Victor Film". Being that it was Doty that probably told him that shit, it struck me Doty may be playfully using the name Victor from Victor Martinez, who was the original member of the 2006/07 Project Serpo behind the scenes "Team of Five":

Victor Martinez
Christopher "Kit" Green (CIA)
Richard Doty (AFOSI)
Hal Puthoff (NSA)
Bill Ryan

That's it for now, just something to keep an eye on. I can't yet verify this guy's direct connection to the hearings.

At the very least, some of these content providers like the couple that does "Redacted" are getting hornswoggled by some of these same old retread stories, performed by the same old people from the same old groups. I'm waiting to see the planet name Serpo come popping up next, and the Eben/astronaut exchange program...

:grin:

Something else. As the 26th rolls near, I'm seeing a lot of previews advertising first hand ufo accounts of military pilots seeing unexplainable aerial phenomena. I don't think there's any argument that pilots are seeing very strange things up there, but haven't we been led to believe we'd be seeing evidence of alien bodies, and their retrieved ships? Pilots seeing ufo's/uap's is not exactly red meat for the hungry and curious any more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIHgFr6DTvs

Aragorn

23rd July 2023, 23:52

modwiz

24th July 2023, 00:13

What a magnificently predictable way to turn a legitimate investigation toward an "It was all fake, folks — nothing to see here" conclusion. I guess we should have seen that one coming all along. :rolleyes: :facepalm:

Given the clowns in gooberment involved in the investigations leads me to conclude this is a circus for entertainment/entrainment only.

The firewall of pre-history must not be breached.

Aragorn

24th July 2023, 00:45

Given the clowns in gooberment involved in the investigations leads me to conclude this is a circus for entertainment/entrainment only.

The firewall of pre-history must not be breached.

Which then (and thus) puts the whole legitimacy of UFO — oh, excuse me, UAP — research back into the fringes, to be gleefully ridiculed again for decades to come by the very same so-called "journalists" who've been doing exactly that in the decades that have passed us by since the very first recorded sightings.

I guess it's easier to believe in the alleged apparitions of Biblical figures than to admit that there could be intelligent life out there among the billions upon billions of planets in our own galaxy, or the billions upon billions of planets in any of the billions upon billions other galaxies in the universe, let alone that such intelligent life would be technologically millions of years more advanced than us here on the third rock away from our local star.

Let's all talk about Democrats and Republicans again. And about gender identity. Because those things are so important. :rolleyes:

Fred Steeves

24th July 2023, 02:59

What a magnificently predictable way to turn a legitimate investigation toward an "It was all fake, folks — nothing to see here" conclusion. I guess we should have seen that one coming all along. :rolleyes: :facepalm:

Well we'll see. First, let's see if we can determine for sure that this guy John Stewart really did deliver his five years of whispered sweet nothings from the lips of Doty and committee, to Congressman Burchett's office. That should be able to be answered definitively soon enough, and if they're going to make anything of it. It's certainly being reported that some kind of evidence or video made a congressman's hands tremble, but we don't know if it's supposedly over that silly video.

Given the clowns in gooberment involved in the investigations leads me to conclude this is a circus for entertainment/entrainment only.

The firewall of pre-history must not be breached.

Well that's two ideas on why between you, and Frank. I still don't really have one after all this time, other than to keep the curious herd stampeding in a direction other than the one where it should be directed, any direction besides that. Like David Petraeus says about war (paraphrased): The purpose is not to win, but to keep the juggled plates in the air.

But on a more superficial level, I've long noticed the Rick Doty story teller types get off on their little misdirection mind fucks - it's a game, and a fun one at that: "look how easily I can manipulate people into believing the stupidist shit".

And much as I loathe most of them, I don't cast shade over these politicians on this. Some of them are just as curious as anyone else, and they're probably having their chains yanked just like the people at "Redacted", and elsewhere in indy media. Even the best and brightest in indy media have next to zero experience in this shitty little game.

I'm still rubbing my eyes, in utter disbelief that this stuff and these people, may really be going mainstream. Like a farm team having its number called up to join the big show.

Emil El Zapato

24th July 2023, 10:42

One thing concerns me, the expected 'whistleblowers' are retreads...Grusch, Fravor...What happened to all the 'firsthand knowledge' people? Maybe they are only allowed to report in a security-cleared hearing, not the public one?

Emil El Zapato

24th July 2023, 11:23

So here's how this episode of "Redacted" started out:

Incidentally, Burchett's office is right close to here in Knoxville.

If this information is indeed going to become an official part of the UAP congressional investigation, then OMG, there's no one up above who's at all interested in checking out his sources. Not that it would be of any great surprise mind you, but interesting none the less, considering...

From the notes I jotted down while watching it:

His sources are Sean David Morton , Richard Doty, Michael Salla, Linda Moulton Howe - Steven Greer and Project Aquarius/Dan Burisch get an honorable mention.

Has anyone been hearing about some congressman seeing something that struck him so profound, it left his hands shaking? Supposedly LOL, it was this dark grainy video that shook him.

Ex 4 star general and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Colin Powell, was one of the doctors in the video.

He's saying this is all about "Majestic" (which was Doty's baby more or less, same as "Project Serpo".

He calls the video "The Victor Film". Being that it was Doty that probably told him that shit, it struck me Doty may be playfully using the name Victor from Victor Martinez, who was the original member of the 2006/07 Project Serpo behind the scenes "Team of Five":

Victor Martinez
Christopher "Kit" Green (CIA)
Richard Doty (AFOSI)
Hal Puthoff (NSA)
Bill Ryan

That's it for now, just something to keep an eye on. I can't yet verify this guy's direct connection to the hearings.

At the very least, some of these content providers like the couple that does "Redacted" are getting hornswoggled by some of these same old retread stories, performed by the same old people from the same old groups. I'm waiting to see the planet name Serpo come popping up next, and the Eben/astronaut exchange program...

:grin:

Something else. As the 26th rolls near, I'm seeing a lot of previews advertising first hand ufo accounts of military pilots seeing unexplainable aerial phenomena. I don't think there's any argument that pilots are seeing very strange things up there, but haven't we been led to believe we'd be seeing evidence of alien bodies, and their retrieved ships? Pilots seeing ufo's/uap's is not exactly red meat for the hungry and curious any more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIHgFr6DTvs

Synthetic? Not alive?

Bring the country together? lol, I doubt it.

The One

26th July 2023, 06:47

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ7Dw-739VY

Aianawa

26th July 2023, 07:43

Starts at 2am here lol

The One

26th July 2023, 14:49

You can watch it here https://www.c-span.org/video/?529499-1/hearing-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-uap

I cant seem to watch it on youtube

Emil El Zapato

26th July 2023, 16:09

I don't know if you have access but CBS is showing it live...

One thing I have noticed is that the interdimensional 'Holography' aspect that Dave Grusch put forward didn't add up to me.

Wind

26th July 2023, 21:28

https://twitter.com/MikeColangelo/status/1684232526825496578

Aragorn

27th July 2023, 01:41

One thing I have noticed is that the interdimensional 'Holography' aspect that Dave Grusch put forward didn't add up to me.

On account of objects that appear to morph and/or do not appear to be made of any solid materials, the interpretation that they might be "shadows" or cross-sections of higher-dimensional objects with our 4-dimensional spacetime could be valid. However, I do not believe that this would apply in the event of the allegedly retrieved humanoid bodies, because those bodies are by definition just as 4-dimensional — i.e. 3 directional dimensions and 1 temporal dimension — as we ourselves are in this realm. If that were not the case, then they wouldn't appear humanoid to us.

That said, there are plenty of loopholes in quantum physics and even in general relativity to allow for non-relativistic motion through spacetime, and thus, to allow a species from a technologically sufficiently advanced civilization to engage in interstellar or possibly even intergalactic travel. Einstein, Podolski and Rosen already posited the idea of wormholes more than eight decades ago, and there is a variant of string theory called brane theory, which suggests that the universe as we ourselves experience it would only be the outer membrane of a higher-dimensional bubble, itself existing inside a multiverse alongside of other such bubbles.

There's just this simple question that nobody has answered yet, i.e. we know that spacetime can be warped, because we can observe the effects of such through gravity — and especially through gravitational lensing and the impermeability to light of black holes — and through the expansion of the observable universe. But then what is spacetime warping and expanding into, if there are no higher dimensions than "3 + 1"?

Humans are so arrogant to think that we know everything when we haven't even begun scratching the surface. Or as Brian Greene put it, if the history of the entire universe as we know it were to be mapped out over the length of one year here on Earth, then the human species has only come into existence at 9 seconds before midnight on the 31st of December.

Just imagine how far we've come in terms of technology over the course of the last two centuries. And now imagine what a civilization that's a million of our Earth years ahead of us in terms of their technology and science could achieve compared to the best us talking monkeys can do right now. Even a million years is only peanuts in comparison to the age of the universe. And then we're not even getting into what kind of life and technology could possibly exist in those hyper-dimensional environments.

Following up, an interview with Tim Burchett... ↓

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVQdn_oaoyg

Note: I've merged Malc's thread with the original one. No point in having two threads going about the same topic. ;)

The One

27th July 2023, 07:49

Here is the full YouTube video.

Oversight Committee Holds Historic Hearing On Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fxmSruoqRo

Fred Steeves

27th July 2023, 09:46

Emil El Zapato

27th July 2023, 10:13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbaKB2kpKGU

Emil El Zapato

27th July 2023, 14:33

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F2A7A2GaMAATEGj?format=jpg&name=medium

Dr.Disclosure89
@Docneuroeo
⚡️ Consider the significance of this fact: Charles McCullough, the longest-serving Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, is currently serving as personal counsel to David Grusch. The implications of this connection are profound and worth contemplating.

I. Charles McCullough, III October 7, 2010 – March 2017
Michael Atkinson May 17, 2018 – April 3, 2020
Thomas Monheim April 3, 2020 – presen

Aragorn

27th July 2023, 22:53

Sooooooo... did anyone hear anything yesterday that they haven't heard before?

Did I miss the part where they finally presented evidence of these downed craft from all around the world that are lightyears ahead of ours in technology, and the beings that flew them?

No, you didn't miss that part, Fred, but you're missing something else, namely the point. :onthequite:

First of all, these people have come forward with sworn testimonies before Congress. This puts a legal framework around the whole situation, from which now an official Congressional investigation can be launched, in which rogue intelligence agencies and military-industrial businesses can be held legally accountable and, if necessary, prosecuted for acting outside the knowledge of Congress (and thus the law) in what was hitherto a very grey zone due to the official denial and the all-too-often-cited "lack of evidence".

That very grey zone is what has until now allowed the involved tentacles of the US government and the NATO-affiliated military-industrial complex to leave the whole UAP phenomenon into the hands of thugs and cutthroats in the darkened backstreets and alleys between corporate warehouses on industrial estates. And so now, that has become illegal.

Secondly, and specifically on account of the cited (and gratuitously appealed unto) "lack of evidence", David Grusch has stated on several questions that he could not disclose more and/or answer the questions in a public setting, but that he was willing to provide further and detailed information in a SCIF (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information_facility). And from there on, information revealed in the SCIF (1) would be legally actionable and (2) could potentially trickle down into the public domain with Congress as the legal filter, due to current and former military personnel being bound by their NDA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement), while Congress members are not — unless I am mistaken about the latter, of course.

Having this matter now officially and legally acknowledged and contextualized by Congress forces the mainstream media to take this subject out of the domain of public ridicule, which will hopefully also lift the stigma resting upon legitimate witnesses, and should hopefully also clear the names of legitimate abductees — such as Betty and Barney Hill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_and_Betty_Hill_incident) — who had been gratuitously and complacently written off earlier as either mentally ill or as fraudsters.

As an aside and on a personal note, I myself have kicked the ass of one of Wikipedia's editors only a few days ago because he had replaced the original and neutral article on the Belgian UFO wave (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_UFO_wave) of 1989-1991 by a debunking hit piece full of factual misinformation. The phenomenon was the headline story on the television news that evening and was shown in real-time as the events unfolded. I was at my parents' house, and they were watching the news together with me, so I know exactly what was reported, by whom, how many witnesses had called it in, and how the Belgian gendarmes got involved and got to witness the two craft themselves. I also saw the press conference held by (then) Lt.-Colonel Wilfried De Brouwer of the Belgian Air Force later that night, so I know what the official statement of the Belgian military was. Wilfried De Brouwer later on even joined Steven Greer's Disclosure Project, and Greer may very well be a narcissistic douchebag, but his original Disclosure Project witnesses were all legitimate.

Wikipedia is supposed to be neutral and objective, which the new article was not — far from it. I also know what the original (and factually correct) article looked like, which is why I lost my temper with that smartass who decided to replace the original article with a debunking hit piece full of misinformation regarding the sequence of events, the number of reports coming in that very evening, the atmospheric conditions, and the opinion of the Belgian military regarding what had transpired.

Anyway, nobody said that all of the beans were going to be spilled during this hearing — of which it was suggested by Chairman Grothman that there would be several more such hearings in the near future. You are free to think of this as you will, but to me this event signifies an unprecedented development and turnaround.

Fred Steeves

27th July 2023, 23:57

I keep taking talk of evidence seriously. Like how this thread started. What have they been doing all this time in preparation?

A former intelligence official turned whistleblower has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.

The information, he says, has been illegally withheld from Congress, and he filed a complaint alleging that he suffered illegal retaliation for his confidential disclosures, reported here for the first time.

Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.

“We are not talking about prosaic origins or identities,” Grusch said, referencing information he provided Congress and the current ICIG. “The material includes intact and partially intact vehicles.”
https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

First of all, these people have come forward with sworn testimonies before Congress. This puts a legal framework around the whole situation, from which now an official Congressional investigation can be launched, in which rogue intelligence agencies and military-industrial businesses can be held legally accountable and, if necessary, prosecuted for acting outside the knowledge of Congress (and thus the law) in what was hitherto a very grey zone due to the official denial and the all-too-often-cited "lack of evidence".

That very grey zone is what has until now allowed the involved tentacles of the US government and the NATO-affiliated military-industrial complex to leave the whole UAP phenomenon into the hands of thugs and cutthroats in the darkened backstreets and alleys between corporate warehouses on industrial estates. And so now, that has become illegal.

Ah, so the good folks of the US Congress are clearing the bad guys out of the way, the ones they used to be afraid of, and getting the truth out that the American people deserve. I chuckled every time they pontificated on that one.

You know the old slow roll game of this great thing is going to happen, just never today or tomorrow? Same as it's always been with this. A long walk to nowhere.

Octopus Garden

28th July 2023, 06:16

Well, that was one hell of a ride yesterday! Historic, 70 years in the making, but whose counting...decades?

Bipartisan and this won't be swept under the rug. Careers will be made on pursuing this topic now. Plus Congress has the bit firmly between their teeth, pissed that they haven't been read in, like ever. And these programs have even evaded oversight committees.

Ufos are close to being the literal wedge that is prying open the divide between different factions of government, and exposing that Pentagon. Rumor has become reality. The gloves are off. The MSM is still blowing it off, providing glib coverage. Makes sense. They have a direct line to the pentagon and intel.

Aragorn

28th July 2023, 06:56

Well, that was one hell of a ride yesterday!

Fred doesn't seem to think much of it. :ttr:

Historic, 70 years in the making, but whose counting...decades?

Bipartisan and this won't be swept under the rug. Careers will be made on pursuing this topic now. Plus Congress has the bit firmly between their teeth, pissed that they haven't been read in, like ever. And these programs have even evaded oversight committees.

I liked when Tim Burchett said about the Pentagon, "They work for us; we don't work for them." :grin:

Ufos are close to being the literal wedge that is prying open the divide between different factions of government, and exposing that Pentagon. Rumor has become reality. The gloves are off. The MSM is still blowing it off, providing glib coverage. Makes sense. They have a direct line to the pentagon and intel.

It actually made the news over here. Grusch's earlier appearance in the interview with Ross Coulthart was ignored by the media over here, but now that he testified under oath before Congress, they did publish an article on it, and they at least did it without ridicule this time. I guess that's progress. :p

modwiz

28th July 2023, 08:58

Joseph shares his view on this subject.

I share his view.:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b4oQ2GX6oU

Emil El Zapato

28th July 2023, 11:07

Farrell is about two steps behind the learning curve.

Emil El Zapato

28th July 2023, 11:24

Emil El Zapato

28th July 2023, 11:34

Pontificating? Yes, chief among them was the usual suspect, Matt Gaetz. He has information that he and only he knows...What a prick!

Octopus Garden

28th July 2023, 17:03

Octopus Garden

28th July 2023, 17:14

Emil El Zapato

28th July 2023, 17:36

This issue represents an internal battle in a bloodless civil war within the highest circles of American government. The military and intelligence agencies have wielded control over the entire governmental structure.

It's worth noting that, in spite of what many people think, it's the new wave of Republicans who are currently anti-war and more isolationist. They've thrown a grenade into a barrel of oatmeal here. So, I give them their due in that regard.

lol, yeah...with 'those' people though, one always has to consider motivations. Some people place value on what is going on inside (I do) but many don't. Rarely does something 'good inside' come from that group.

Emil El Zapato

29th July 2023, 09:28

I don't know why Grusch did this but I wouldn't be as literal as Loeb...Two possibilities (black hole existence). I saw a video the other day but didn't watch that was claiming we live in a black hole (that would be an outre possibility). Secondly, he might have confused the idea of 'formations' and breaking apart and re-assembling as indications of interdimensional action which aren't holographic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLmnvu-mxiM

Aragorn

29th July 2023, 12:42

I don't know why Grusch did this but I wouldn't be as literal as Loeb...

I find it highly ironic that Avi Loeb, of all people, largely assumes the role of a debunker here and demands evidence, given that he himself is the guy who stated — without a shred of evidence — that Uma Thurman Oumuamua was an alien probe. :rolleyes:

Two possibilities (black hole existence). I saw a video the other day but didn't watch that was claiming we live in a black hole (that would be an outre possibility).

I've explained this a few times already. We are not actually living inside a black hole, but for all intents and purposes, one could regard our universe as such due to the expansion of the universe at the edges happening faster than the speed of light, just as the escape velocity of a black hole is also greater than the speed of light.

Just as with Einstein's metaphor of the elevator in which the experience of gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration — and indeed, gravity is an acceleration — our relative position in spacetime with regard to the outer edges of the expanding universe is indistinguishable from being inside the event horizon of a black hole — in both cases, we cannot look beyond the event horizon. Inside the event horizon of a black hole, time becomes a spatial dimension, and this appears to be the same near the edges of the expanding universe.

Secondly, he might have confused the idea of 'formations' and breaking apart and re-assembling as indications of interdimensional action which aren't holographic.

I agree that the term "holographic" is indeed a poor choice of words here. But as far as interdimensional physics are concerned, yes, I'm fully onboard with there being an interdimensional aspect to the way some of these objects travel, and definitely to the sightings of objects that appear non-solid and/or morphing.

If it morphs, then that's a solid indication that the object being observed is only the intersection of a higher-dimensional object with our "3+1" spacetime. And considering that we're with the utmost certainty talking of vessels made up of tangible matter — and thus, particles with a rest mass — which can travel interstellar distances in a non-relativistic way, there is no other option than that there would be some interdimensional factor involved.

Nothing with a rest mass can even attain the speed of light, because it would require an infinite amount of energy over a finite time of acceleration, or a finite amount of energy over an infinite time of acceleration. But even then still, if that were possible, then there's also the fact that anything made of matter and attempting to surpass the speed of light by relativistic means would by definition disintegrate as a result of the fact that the forces holding atoms and molecules together work at the speed of light. In addition to that, there would as such also not be any possibility for the pilot(s) to control the vessel by way of either electronics or optics, because they too would only work at the speed of light.

As such, there are only a few ways that anything could be traveling at a velocity perceived to be faster than the speed of light — "perceived" in the sense that the object would be traversing a certain distance in less time than it would take at the speed of light in a vacuum — and all of them involve higher-dimensional physics, i.e. ...:

warping spacetime as theorized by Miguel Alcubierre;
a shortcut between two points in spacetime by way of a tunnel that itself runs through a higher-dimensional hyperspace — i.e. a wormhole, also known as an Einstein-Rosen bridge;
quantum teleportation;
if brane theory — a variant of string theory — is correct, shifting from one brane onto another, which is in fact analogous to the wormhole in that it's a shortcut and that it requires a hyperdimensional hyperspace.

Emil El Zapato

29th July 2023, 13:22

I find it highly ironic that Avi Loeb, of all people, largely assumes the role of a debunker here and demands evidence, given that he himself is the guy who stated — without a shred of evidence — that Uma Thurman Oumuamua was an alien probe. :rolleyes:

I've explained this a few times already. We are not actually living inside a black hole, but for all intents and purposes, one could regard our universe as such due to the expansion of the universe at the edges happening faster than the speed of light, just as the escape velocity of a black hole is also greater than the speed of light.

Just as with Einstein's metaphor of the elevator in which the experience of gravity is indistinguishable from acceleration — and indeed, gravity is an acceleration — our relative position in spacetime with regard to the outer edges of the expanding universe is indistinguishable from being inside the event horizon of a black hole — in both cases, we cannot look beyond the event horizon. Inside the event horizon of a black hole, time becomes a spatial dimension, and this appears to be the same near the edges of the expanding universe.

I agree that the term "holographic" is indeed a poor choice of words here. But as far as interdimensional physics are concerned, yes, I'm fully onboard with there being an interdimensional aspect to the way some of these objects travel, and definitely to the sightings of objects that appear non-solid and/or morphing.

If it morphs, then that's a solid indication that the object being observed is only the intersection of a higher-dimensional object with our "3+1" spacetime. And considering that we're with the utmost certainty talking of vessels made up of tangible matter — and thus, particles with a rest mass — which can travel interstellar distances in a non-relativistic way, there is no other option than that there would be some interdimensional factor involved.

Nothing with a rest mass can even attain the speed of light, because it would require an infinite amount of energy over a finite time of acceleration, or a finite amount of energy over an infinite time of acceleration. But even then still, if that were possible, then there's also the fact that anything made of matter and attempting to surpass the speed of light by relativistic means would by definition disintegrate as a result of the fact that the forces holding atoms and molecules together work at the speed of light. In addition to that, there would as such also not be any possibility for the pilot(s) to control the vessel by way of either electronics or optics, because they too would only work at the speed of light.

As such, there are only a few ways that anything could be traveling at a velocity perceived to be faster than the speed of light — "perceived" in the sense that the object would be traversing a certain distance in less time than it would take at the speed of light in a vacuum — and all of them involve higher-dimensional physics, i.e. ...:

warping spacetime as theorized by Miguel Alcubierre;
a shortcut between two points in spacetime by way of a tunnel that itself runs through a higher-dimensional hyperspace — i.e. a wormhole, also known as an Einstein-Rosen bridge;
quantum teleportation;
if brane theory — a variant of string theory — is correct, shifting from one brane onto another, which is in fact analogous to the wormhole in that it's a shortcut and that it requires a hyperdimensional hyperspace.

Agreed ... :)

Emil El Zapato

29th July 2023, 13:27

The real problem was that Grusch mentioned that he had a degree in physics (I think) and then he made that 'off the cuff' statement which I believe hurt his credibility.
Coincidentally over our American holiday, I met a guy that was training to fly F-35s. I didn't get a chance to ask him about UAP's, I think they are bound by security restrictions but who knows (I couldn't tell if he had been drinking or not) :).

Octopus Garden

29th July 2023, 19:36

Agreed ... :)

Me too, though lack the IQ and affinity for physics to understand. Maybe if I read it over several times, something might click though.:unsure:

Emil El Zapato

29th July 2023, 19:38

I looked for an interview between Michael Smerconish and Avi Loeb..."Professional and personal interests" are creeping into his narrative.

Me too, though lack the IQ and affinity for physics to understand. Maybe if I read it over several times, something might click though.:unsure:

I'm sure you could ... :)

Octopus Garden

29th July 2023, 19:47

Wind

29th July 2023, 20:33

And the idea that "all you have is the present moment," is a bit ridiculous?

But what else you have than the present moment? The past is only a memory and the future is potential.

qX8j9TE7P38

Octopus Garden

29th July 2023, 20:57

Wind, I'm describing it in the strictest sense only. I'm sitting here in this chair and contemplating my own history that happened a millisecond ago, but I call it the "present moment" when it's not really.

Octopus Garden

29th July 2023, 21:04

This is what I was trying to say.

"Whatever is defined in time needs to have duration. But what’s the demarcation point between past and future? The present is as thin as it can be. In fact, mathematically, we define the now as a single point in time.

This point is an abstraction and, believe it or not, it has no duration. Ergo, mathematically, the present is a point in time with no duration: the present doesn’t exist!

Our minds create the feeling of duration so that we can attribute reality to “now.” (Here’s a TEDx talk explaining how this works cognitively.)"

https://orbitermag.com/no-such-thing-as-now/

Aragorn

29th July 2023, 22:16

Me too, though lack the IQ and affinity for physics to understand. Maybe if I read it over several times, something might click though.:unsure:

If you need me to explain a certain thing, just ask. ;) The video below will already explain the basics. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQC3uYL67U

Fred Steeves

29th July 2023, 22:50

Wind

29th July 2023, 23:27

I always thought the late great physicist :p Alan Watts had a good simple way of describing it:

Indeed!

Aragorn

30th July 2023, 00:35

I always thought the late great physicist :p Alan Watts had a good simple way of describing it:

The past is a memory, the future an expectation, neither past nor future actually exist, there is simply eternal now.

I like Albert Einstein's description better...

"Reality is only an illusion, however persistent."

;)

Fred Steeves

30th July 2023, 01:37

I like Albert Einstein's description better...

"Reality is only an illusion, however persistent."

;)

That is an oldie but goodie, but the question is when in the persistent illusion?

Aragorn

30th July 2023, 02:03

I like Albert Einstein's description better...

"Reality is only an illusion, however persistent."

;)

That is an oldie but goodie, but the question is when in the persistent illusion?

Everywhere and everywhen. :p Yes, it's a new word. You heard it here first! :lol:

General Relativity was a very famous dude, you know. Fought many battles, then got to serve at the Pentagon, and all that. :ha: :hilarious:

Emil El Zapato

30th July 2023, 12:47

A bit of a change of topic here, but maybe somebody here can help me with this thought and it may relate to the topic in an indirect way. It's about time, with a capital T.

Is there some kind of Planck point of moments? Because, it seems that being "in the moment" or description of present tense, is just a kind of device that is useful as a loose approximation.

If I break down the current moment, which is always retreating into the past, into smaller and smaller increments, doesn't it seem that we are really floating in a sea of past and future? There is no actual present moment, and expressions like, "all at once," are equally illusory?

And the idea that "all you have is the present moment," is a bit ridiculous?

Interesting question...it seems logical to deduce that...but in my mind the Planck constant is the 'limit' of our ability to apprehend quantum reality which is very different from what we experience as human observers. But, it is almost as difficult to comprehend the infinity of relativity (time) which we do experience in everyday life.

I just read that there are questions of time that require answers from as yet unanswered quantum reality. It's a trick, we can't answer the question which in science and mathematics is characterized as the "Hard Question"... :) It is in a class of problems that if one is proved then all the problems can be generalized within the given proof. (e.g. The Non-determinism problem).

I'm going to agree with you, the common perception that we have only the moment is silly, The nature of reality is a continuum of state changes...Ephemeral as they may be, there is more to the answer. The past and probably the future are accessible.

But what else you have than the present moment? The past is only a memory and the future is potential.

qX8j9TE7P38

The 'ineffable'

Poincare's point: "A point has no magnitude" (paraphrase)

Poincare was cool:
So, Poincaré believed that scientific laws are conventions but not arbitrary conventions. Perhaps he was a little obsessed with Poin... :)

Emil El Zapato

30th July 2023, 13:07

If you need me to explain a certain thing, just ask. ;) The video below will already explain the basics. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQC3uYL67U

Light is really really smart? How can that be? :)

I'm famous for my derivation of Reimann mathematics...just ignore the curvature and calculate from the beginning and endpoint. Famous for being an idiot. It did work for one case but cannot be generalized. That is the way I do math... :)

Octopus Garden

30th July 2023, 20:35

If you need me to explain a certain thing, just ask. ;) The video below will already explain the basics. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzQC3uYL67U

Thanks so much, Aragorn. The problem is I don't understand the explanations very well. I'm not wired that way.

Octopus Garden

30th July 2023, 21:11

Interesting question...it seems logical to deduce that...but in my mind the Planck constant is the 'limit' of our ability to apprehend quantum reality which is very different from what we experience as human observers. But, it is almost as difficult to comprehend the infinity of relativity (time) which we do experience in everyday life.

I just read that there are questions of time that require answers from as yet unanswered quantum reality. It's a trick, we can't answer the question which in science and mathematics is characterized as the "Hard Question"... :) It is in a class of problems that if one is proved then all the problems can be generalized within the given proof. (e.g. The Non-determinism problem).

I'm going to agree with you, the common perception that we have only the moment is silly, The nature of reality is a continuum of state changes...Ephemeral as they may be, there is more to the answer. The past and probably the future are accessible.

The 'ineffable'

Poincare's point: "A point has no magnitude" (paraphrase)

Poincare was cool:
So, Poincaré believed that scientific laws are conventions but not arbitrary conventions. Perhaps he was a little obsessed with Poin... :)

When we refer to memory with regards time, too, it's fuzzier than the event that is remembered. The way we perceive time then, is partly related to a subjective measurement of entropy (fuzziness)

In a more open system, (if we could perceive it,) we may view events embedded in a fractal universe that is expanding and increasing in complexity, along with those events, illuminating that entropy, as we define it, is only one way of measuring past in a closed system.

And interesting about the planck point being the smallest unit of the limits of observation only. I have often wondered about that. I didn't even need pot to figure that one out!:o

Wind

30th July 2023, 21:30

8zaDG87HFSM

Octopus Garden

30th July 2023, 21:36

Octopus Garden

30th July 2023, 21:42

Light is really really smart? How can that be? :)

I'm famous for my derivation of Reimann mathematics...just ignore the curvature and calculate from the beginning and endpoint. Famous for being an idiot. It did work for one case but cannot be generalized. That is the way I do math... :)

Cool. Jacques Lusseyran claimed as much as we reach for the light, it reaches for us too. That is such a beautiful thought and so spiritually evocative it makes me emotional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohp6OmzBUUY

Wind

30th July 2023, 21:50

I LOVE Alan Watts. I always feel like such a dull witted, when I listen to him and people of his caliber. I was kind of relieved to find out he was an alcoholic. Sad for him, but made me feel more on top of my game!!

You're funny. I think Alan was very wise and even today I've not heard people talking in the funny and witty manner he did, but I am not sure what made him into an alcoholic, there could be many reasons. Addictions can be the bane of very wise people too, but it just means that they still haven't overcome something in themselves. My theory is that he was at least subconsciously depressed about the state of the world and let himself not care too much about what happens to himself, or to his body to precise. He seemed to be a "happy drunkard". I could be wrong though.

Octopus Garden

31st July 2023, 00:59

Back to original topic!

This from someone who claims he worked on crash retrieval biologics. Fascinating. Wow. Seems legit. If not it's a great fake.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/14rp7w9/from_the_late_2000s_to_the_mid2010s_i_worked_as_a/?utm_name=mweb3xcss

Emil El Zapato

31st July 2023, 12:23

Cool. Jacques Lusseyran claimed as much as we reach for the light, it reaches for us too. That is such a beautiful thought and so spiritually evocative it makes me emotional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohp6OmzBUUY

Nice find!

Emil El Zapato

31st July 2023, 12:57

8zaDG87HFSM

I remember reading about an experiment done on people falling from a platform into the water. It was focused on the perception of time...it was interesting but I don't remember the results, I think it was examining if perception actually modified the behavior of time.

Some scientists consider the future 'making' the past as possible. So he was ahead of his time in that regard.

If I had thoughts like that, I'd get drunk too. Probably high also.

Life is a conundrum.

Emil El Zapato

31st July 2023, 16:26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rz2dIeKV1rk

modwiz

1st August 2023, 07:07

A philosopher's take on the Grush meeting with US gooberment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFsJgJ3EMQw

Silly Wabbit

3rd August 2023, 05:16

Pardon my disgruntled rant at the end, but I am so tired of this ball and cup game, where people who want actual truth have to spend their entire adult live's flipping through trash for any scrap of truth, as those who believe they are our leaders, aren't honest... It has gotten beyond revolting at this point...

I want to admit I have yet to finish the entire thread, but what made me stop and not take this seriously, as anything more than an "orchestrated event", is that the same language is being used everywhere when it comes to any kind of disclosure..... and this is no exception...

Is it not the case that when someone "Whistleblows"... That "Whistle blowing" means everyone hears the alarm? Edward Snowden comes to mind here, yet these same individuals are using the same "Bait and Switch" techniques that they always do, and it is BEYOND laughable at this point..

"Some didn't have high enough clearances to learn some details..." Just more: "I heard", "I read", "I saw..." But all I can do is make suggestions without details because you can't know... UM FOLKS, that is not a whistle blower... It's a dog and pony show...And who are they telling anyway? The one's who have been lying to the public about it FOREVER already...

You yourself, aren't in "the club" so I can't prove it to you, and those that DID get the testimony and information, well, they already knew, and they have been the one's covering it up all along... and they're certainly NOT going to tell YOU...

These individuals have a problem with morals and human ethics, and all should have failed background clearance checks... The first question is probably, "Would you lie to the public if we asked you to, and never expose the truth?" Some code of honor, the phrase itself is laughable... I can't believe I wasted so much time of my life hoping that any of these schmuck's had any integrity.

Fred Steeves

3rd August 2023, 10:51

"Whistleblower", as spoken of by Western authorities any more, is almost as empty and vacuous as when they speak glowingly of "democracy". Language is being weaponized just as in Orwell's "1984".

Emil El Zapato

3rd August 2023, 10:55

Silly Wabbit

4th August 2023, 14:52

I do apologize for the rant... (I have had a very rough month, and am just now calming back down... So I do apologize )...

I can't help but recognize that all individuals have lives outside of trying to get some solid footing in life, in some "Truth"... And I watch many extremely well rounded individuals, with the best of intentions, spend their entire lives trying to find it.. Such as Aragorn who is very well read and versed in studying things for the truth, and everyone else here who is speculating on what everything could honestly mean... And writing out very well thought out assessments and thoughts about such things... Fred, Wind, And even Chuckie (giggle) all of you put time into this, and it matters... at least to me...

I feel even worse for those individuals who spend their entire lives trying to help others gain truth, only to be shamed and publicly humiliated if they believe something and share it, that turns out to be wrong.. It's a mess, and a poor look for what many wish to believed is a civilized and educated culture...

I suppose I am more just disappointed when things happen, like Greer stepping in front of others as if to claim their lives and knowledge as his property, for ego sake, not for any "Truth".

And when I read things like "Intelligence officer" this and that... I almost want to laugh because any intelligent individual would know that in order to have a strong species, it would be more beneficial to teach everyone as much as possible, so we stand strong and united.. Yet greed, and power have tainted even the most intelligent minds to believe the opposite... And in my opinion, it is a lack of morality, and peer pressure that keeps them from "Doing the right thing" in such conditions... So truly, why are these people considered to be intelligent?

And the worst part is, they probably think they're doing it for good reasons.

I now need to go back and see the many pages I missed of this long thread, that many have placed real effort into... To see if anyone was able to dig deep enough to sift out the nonsense... Thank You all for putting so much thought into all of the threads, and really trying to make a difference... At least some can still operate from a place of decency... And it is appreciated...

Octopus Garden

6th August 2023, 23:54

I do apologize for the rant... (I have had a very rough month, and am just now calming back down... So I do apologize )...

I suppose I am more just disappointed when things happen, like Greer stepping in front of others as if to claim their lives and knowledge as his property, for ego sake, not for any "Truth".

And when I read things like "Intelligence officer" this and that... I almost want to laugh because any intelligent individual would know that in order to have a strong species, it would be more beneficial to teach everyone as much as possible, so we stand strong and united.. Yet greed, and power have tainted even the most intelligent minds to believe the opposite... And in my opinion, it is a lack of morality, and peer pressure that keeps them from "Doing the right thing" in such conditions... So truly, why are these people considered to be intelligent?

And the worst part is, they probably think they're doing it for good reasons.

I now need to go back and see the many pages I missed of this long thread, that many have placed real effort into... To see if anyone was able to dig deep enough to sift out the nonsense... Thank You all for putting so much thought into all of the threads, and really trying to make a difference... At least some can still operate from a place of decency... And it is appreciated...

I'm not sure what your paragraph means about "intelligent officials" make you want to laugh, with regards disclosure??

But if I understand correctly, the issue is about distrust of testimony by intelligence officials when it comes to removing the veils. I get that. I also understand that it's a two or more tier problem. In order to remove some of the veils of coversion a person from the intelligence community would be best able to do that. Someone like Grush.

The other tier, is the NHI itself, which requires study by a number of disciplines. If you are studying something that is more intelligent and studying you back, it's no longer purely a science problem. It becomes an intelligence issue. Lue Elizondo, in that case is well placed, as he has that background and also a degree in bio-science of some kind.

Anyway, don't know if I interpreted your comments correctly, but this is what made me think.

I'm so sorry you've been having a lousy time. Hope you are feeling better today, Rabbit.

Silly Wabbit

21st August 2023, 18:55

Hope you are feeling better today, Rabbit.

We had a big loss in the family... Things are settling down now, Thank You for caring and understanding...

I suppose what I was getting at is this...

First, it isn't "Distrust".. The scene itself is rife with contradictions... And I am hoping that by sharing my thoughts on the matter, it will open up others to reevaluate what they focus on, when making their own assessments of what the "Subject" is giving us back... And people are not making the connections.. They're tying one thing to another when it doesn't even apply, as they desperately want some answers, so they're willing to accept any credentials, as "authority" in a field in which they do not even remotely apply... For example... LOU.

You brought up Lou Elizondo, and his bioscience background. He is "In the loop" as he claims in his testimony, what was it? AATIP?... I have no issues wih Lou... And he may have some bioscience background, but I believe we are dealing with much more than just a few credentials can cover. And if we were gauging the output from one whistleblower, well? I believe their testimony should reflect that which they specialize in. Yet he doesn't cover bioscience in his talks, he merely states that they have foreign craft material, and TTSA was going to create something using said materials.

Lou then walked out into the public, unarmed as far as having really anything of huge signifigance that he could or would share...

So his degrees, if any, are mute in this discussion on the matter of what he is actually partaking in. So his credibility factor based upon his claims, and what he is actually educated in, aren't even remotely similar. Yet those credentials are being noted... Why, if they do not apply in any way?

Now if Lou was a scientist that specialized in raw materials, and physics, or even the aerospace industry, bringing up his credentials would mean something in that context. We have been trained to examine someone with "degrees", as someone who has more advanced education, and should be taken seriously... Essentially, would you call a proctologist to perform open heart surgery on you? I surely wouldn't...

Only if their craft are biological in nature, or he has worked with the et themselves, would biology come into play here... And no matter how well he did in school to get that degree, it means nothing given what he suggests he is trying to do. Much like someone with a degree in psychology then going on to land management, hired merely because they had a masters degree in ANY given field available to them...

Hal Puthoff... Now THAT is a gentlemen I would like to meet in my lifetime, and have an open and frank conversation with...

For me, when these individuals come out and join the "Disclosure task force".. I cannot help but see things, such as the discrepancy in his credentials, versus what he goes on to actually engage in. It just lights up like an error on a spelling test, in glaring red ink... (Not literally, but I notice it like an immediate "red flag".

Now I do want to note that just because he studied something entirely different than what he went on to do.. Doesn't mean that he isn't credible. Many run of the mill humans have contacts without any qualifications in anything specific... I just think that seperating the two, would be wise, given the one credential does not support his actual efforts now.

Those who are in positions of "Assumed authority" in this world, are hand picked on their ability to more follow commands, and keep secrets. I strongly feel that most of them aren't any more intelligent than their neighbors, but they merely have more information, being in on the "Loop of secrets"... That is what it all boils down to... In my opinion.

I find it amusing that most et will single out others who are NOT in that structure, when making actual "contacts..." And perhaps those in the intelligence agencies should consider that... As I am sure there is a reason for this... Their minds aren't preprogrammed to just regurgatate what they have been told, so they still retain the ability for free thought... Unmolested by a corrupt educational system...

I believe intelligence comes in many forms... Street smarts, book smarts, creativity, problem solving, emotional intelligence, the ability to rationalize those things that defy logic, mathmatics, engineering... etc. A degree in anything, is nothing more than a piece of paper with a golden star on it, suggesting you read the literature, and were able to parrot it back accurately upon request. In some cases it is truly valuable, in many, it is useless. It is the same thing they do in the classroom only on a larger scale. But in some cases, some actually perform the experiments that come along with the book knowledge. Kudos to putting it to practical use...

Many can do just that if taking the same courses, or being pulled into the same projects... And in many areas, many do, at home, in their spare time, in their garages... Apple comes to mind here...

Many learn things, but intelligence is the ability to put it to practical use... To learn from trial and error, and to gain wisdom from having done so... Knowing alone, is not considered a marker of intelligence. One can be taught to assemble a watch, yet never know how the thing actually works... Do you know what I mean?

It's my opinion, that those that excel, are also given access to more advanced information, that is not shared with the general public. So this doesn't mean that they are any "smarter", just that they have better access to such things.

I am not trying to belittle the efforts, or to take away from anyone's disclosures, but I am a contactee who has had some incredible experiences... And from that perspective, I now have a different view on some things... I have had interactions with the "Others".. And I can tell you that they can drop an entire set of encyclopedias directly into your mind nearly instantaneously if they so desire. And while it may take a long while for the mind to sift through it, and file it away for future use, the information is there... So "Knowledge" is a mute point, as they can bring someone up to "Speed" as far as book smarts, nearly instantaneously, if they so desire...

So again, those fancy background degrees mean nothing to me, unless they are dealing with dead et who cannot share information with them. Only then will their schooling need to come into play there. And their biological degrees... And only in the study of their lifeforms, not their cultures, craft, or anything else.

I think we are looking at the subject from the human perspective, and negating the major differences between our intelligence and theirs. They can engage a human mind, and turn it into basically a super computer from afar... Forget sitting in a classroom for years, and learning, we are talking about instant knowledge being sent to the mind, in real time...

This Literally levels the playing field as far as "education". One minute you are talking to others using your mouth, and instantaniously you are telepathically communicating, and exchanging volumes of information at a speed unlike anything humanity has ever known. Often times they answer you before you ask any question and you have to slow them down and ask, "Is it this question that you just answered???" It is like an evolution of the human mind of millions of years... Instantaneously.

So I do have some issues with the "Intelligence agencies"... Not when it comes to human safety and such, but the massive over reached they partake in, when it comes to privacy and the right to live our lives without their intrusions... they can make all kinds of claims, such as humans are being abducted, so we need to know where you all are at all times.. We need to worry about clones and replacements, we need to worry about... (enter anything you wish here...) But the reality is, people would be much more readily available if they were honest for a change...

If they came out and said, "They're harvesting humans on a scale unimaginable, and we didn't want to frighten anyone".. Well I think people would say, "Well if we knew, perhaps we could help problem solve the matter"... But they're too self important these days.. Thinking they hold their finger to the pulse of the entire planet, and it is their right to make important decisions on behalf of the entirety of the species known of as human.

It wouldn't surprise me if the things caching fire, or 9/11 was actually the et, sending a message to those who claim "Intelligence"... And while the et would say they warned us, the powers that "Claim to be" would claim that this is what they have been trying to protect us from... We will never get the full truth...

I watched part of the original "The Day The Earth Stood Still" lastnight, the scene where the et told humans that if they brought their warring ways off planet, we would be facing a burning planet... And I couldn't help but wonder if the fires these days are a representation of just that... Warning shots across the bow... Or from another country, where they too, have the same pilfered technologies at their fingertips.

What I have surmised is that we have NOT gotten from horse drawn carriages, to the world at our fingertips within just 100 years unaided. It isn't the technologies that we were given, or took, (Or found) that worries them, it is what we choose to do with them.. And thus far, I see them all being used for nothing more than war advantages, population control, and harm to both the planet and humanity...

And THAT is not very "intelligent" in my opinion.

These are just my thoughts... And everyone is welcome to disagree. I am not going into woo woo or astrology, or channeling here, just using and applying my own version of common sense... Based upon my own interactions with the phenomenon... And I could be off base... But I think the age of instant internet fame, is truly making things even more challenging and complicated... So I am just doing my best, given the time I have, to make sense of it all...

Emil El Zapato

22nd August 2023, 16:27

These are just my thoughts... And everyone is welcome to disagree. I am not going into woo woo or astrology, or channeling here, just using and applying my own version of common sense... Based upon my own interactions with the phenomenon... And I could be off base... But I think the age of instant internet fame, is truly making things even more challenging and complicated... So I am just doing my best, given the time I have, to make sense of it all...

Agreed, a good post!

Emil El Zapato

23rd August 2023, 11:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2DqdOw6Uy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAiGSIoQkbs

Emil El Zapato

23rd August 2023, 14:09

That's the guy that debunked the Atacama skeleton. Dr. Greer was really miffed that Nolan adjudged it a pre-term female. (And he probably didn't get the 100's of thousands of dollars in the process).

What do 'they' believe? That question has been asked before...It's a really good question.

Aragorn

13th September 2023, 20:56

Source: Slashdot (https://news.slashdot.org/story/23/09/13/1714242/researcher-shows-bodies-of-purported-non-human-beings-to-mexican-congress-at-ufo-hearing)

A journalist and researcher on unidentified anomalous phenomena (UAP), or UFOs as they're better known, presented the remains of purported "non-human" beings (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-ufo-researcher-shows-purported-non-human-being-bodies-to-congress/) to lawmakers in Mexico on Tuesday during the country's first public congressional hearing on the topic. From a report:

Jamie Maussan brought two boxes containing what he said were the small, stuffed bodies of extraterrestrials recovered in Peru in 2017. He said carbon-14 dating carried out by the National Autonomous University of Mexico had determined the remains were 700 and 1,800 years old. Each of the figures has only three fingers on each hand and elongated heads, resembling, at least superficially, the Hollywood-born character ET.

"This is the first time it (extraterrestrial life) is presented in such a form and I think there is a clear demonstration that we are dealing with non-human specimens that are not related to any other species in our world," Maussan told the lawmakers, urging them to consider the topic, which he said should not be viewed as "a political topic -- it's a topic for humanity." He said DNA evidence could prove the specimens were not of this planet, but it wasn't clear if any such tests had been carried out. At least one previous claim by Maussan about purported "non-human" remains discovered in Peru has been debunked, though the specimens he presented Tuesday in Mexico City appeared different to the one he previously spoke about in 2015.

Source: Slashdot (https://news.slashdot.org/story/23/09/13/1714242/researcher-shows-bodies-of-purported-non-human-beings-to-mexican-congress-at-ufo-hearing)

Source: CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/mexico-remains-alleged-non-human-put-on-display/?intcid=CNR-01-0623)

MEXICO -- The remains of alleged "non-human" beings were presented Tuesday at Mexico's first public congressional hearing on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAPs), also known as UFOs.

The two stuffed bodies recovered 2017 in Peru were 700 and 1,800 years old, with only three fingers on each hand and elongated heads.

Mexican journalist and researcher on the topic Jaime Maussan said it was a clear demonstration that the presented bodies were non-human specimens. Researchers could prove that the DNA of the two mummies did not belong to human beings.

The hearing aimed to rule on the phenomenon in the Aerial Space Protection Law, which would turn Mexico into the first country in the world to acknowledge the presence of aliens on the planet, local media reported.

Source: CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/mexico-remains-alleged-non-human-put-on-display/?intcid=CNR-01-0623)

https://i.headtopics.com/images/2023/9/13/irishmirror/alien-corpses-supposedly-1-000-years-old-shown-to--alien-corpses-supposedly-1-000-years-old-shown-to--7270E83D8152DB0625F2CCD59D9BF0A1.webp

https://t4x3y5r8.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/ufo-investigator-Jaime-Maussan-presents-alien-corpses-from-peru-to-mexican-congress-non-human-fallen-angels.jpg

https://img.etimg.com/thumb/msid-103636347,width-650,height-488,imgsize-80622,,resizemode-75/alien.jpg

Wind

13th September 2023, 21:17

A very possible hoax, although interesting. What's even more interesting is that mainstream news are reporting that story widely.

Aragorn

13th September 2023, 21:36

A very possible hoax, although interesting. What's even more interesting is that mainstream news are reporting that story widely.

Well, if independent scientists can get a chance at examining the DNA, then we'll know soon enough whether it is real or not. :hmm:

I do think it's plausible, but at the same time, the heads do look quite a lot like Spielberg's "E.T." :noidea:

Emil El Zapato

13th September 2023, 22:49

It's late for me, but I just wanted to add that Maussan is not a scammer, but he is kind of an idiot.

Aragorn

13th September 2023, 23:07

It's late for me, but I just wanted to add that Maussan is not a scammer, but he is kind of an idiot.

I wouldn't say "an idiot", but perhaps a bit naive and presumptuous, yes.

Wind

21st September 2023, 20:05

E.T. didn't go home.

buhwOR-kRsI

Aragorn

11th November 2023, 15:56

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVd1WsNqIPw

Octopus Garden

11th November 2023, 21:23

This is great, FRank. The amendment was agreed to. That doesn't mean the amendment has passed, or does it?

Aragorn

12th November 2023, 14:21

This is great, FRank. The amendment was agreed to. That doesn't mean the amendment has passed, or does it?

I don't know, Jess. I'm not a lawyer, and all that jazz. :p

Octopus Garden

12th November 2023, 22:02

Emil El Zapato

13th November 2023, 12:53

My favorite interviewer, Curt Jaimangal --He does many philosophy, physics, paranormal and ufo stuff. Here he interviews Jesse Michels, a very interesting researcher. There is a wealth of information here. I learned some choice bits here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdDM8YyV7RA&t=6064s

A quick warning. The first 20 minutes or half an hour is boring, at least was for me, so if you find you are falling asleep, just look at the time stamps and go to what looks interesting to you!

I was looking at the possibility that Oppenheimer 'really' lost his clearance because he no longer had a need to know, but this is what I found:

Oppenheimer's troubles were further exacerbated by the onset of the McCarthy Era. A key component of the Republican Party platform in 1952 was the need to rid the Federal Government of "subversives" who had supposedly infiltrated the system, along with an overhaul of loyalty and security programs. Senator Joseph McCarthy's call for a tough anti-Communist drive at that year's convention received a standing ovation. When Dwight D. Eisenhower was sworn in as the 34th US president, McCarthy became chairman of the Senate's Investigations Subcommittee, with broad power to choose investigative targets. Other appointees in the new administration wasted no time in unveiling a new security policy under which a government employee not only had to be judged "loyal" in order to serve the country; his or her background had to be "clearly consistent with the interests of national security."

Love is energy, energy is very definitely a form of currency... M. King Hubbard proposed a literal use of human energy as currency and perhaps, why not?

I would argue for the high possibility that there IS no coherent/cohesive narrative to compile.. Since the possibility exists that we simply have no firm ideas about the UFO phenomena. They were arguing about the lack of it in the interview.

Emil El Zapato

16th November 2023, 14:00

Sean Kirkpatrick, Pentagon UFO Chief, Resigns After Warning Recent Sightings Could Be Aliens

Pentagon's UFO chief Sean Kirkpatrick is set to step down next month. Sean Kirkpatrick, Director of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), announced his retirement after a 27-year career in the department and the United States Intelligence Community.

Emil El Zapato

18th November 2023, 19:58

A good one...some strong opinions here. I didn't see the guests introduced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5CfXGmmfA

Full episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwcjpmVOmqc&t=0s

Emil El Zapato

26th November 2023, 13:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooIHtPOvzaA&t=53s

Aragorn

28th November 2023, 17:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WMX41AqIdk

Emil El Zapato

11th February 2024, 19:15

The title is kind of hokey but you should watch at least the beginning. You might be surprised...I was...The professor is about as sweet as a person can be...I certainly didn't get any negative vibes listening:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQhikls5Ye8&t=980s

Emil El Zapato

11th March 2024, 21:41

New show...interesting watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVPs-2DfN_o

Emil El Zapato

12th March 2024, 08:43

New show...interesting watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVPs-2DfN_o

One thing that annoys me is that if any president gets shooed away from UFO read in they are usually Demos...the Repubs are holding the power (along with the long maligned Military Industrial complex...corporatists)

Wind

13th March 2024, 01:13

I didn't realize Putin has his own show.

Octopus Garden

14th March 2024, 02:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooIHtPOvzaA&t=53s

Sol foundation videos are great. The best ones, imo, are Kevin Knuth's and Christopher Mellon.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sol+kevin+knuth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nifLdoJYamQ&t=35s

Aragorn

7th May 2024, 15:52

Duration: 47 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEs-lrw_hhQ

Emil El Zapato

10th October 2024, 16:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxyUoDvdGhg

Octopus Garden

11th October 2024, 23:36

Emil El Zapato

12th October 2024, 13:31

I'm trying to remember the revelations from the whistleblower. I think one was that this program is run out of the office of the secretary of defense. Interesting. It makes sense though.

Karl Nell will be a big name in disclosure movement. Highly credible:

yeah, I think I've seen this before...it is a good one but it appears even more substantial info is coming...but I've been hearing that since I went to a presentation with Frank Edwards in 1966. He showed some photos similar to what has now been disclosed as legitimate. I thought they were all fake in retrospect.

Emil El Zapato

17th October 2024, 11:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oI1uFzDHXU

Emil El Zapato

15th November 2024, 10:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns3oPFw4Jsw

Emil El Zapato

13th December 2024, 09:27

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_c4gHg2Og

Wind

16th December 2024, 23:33

nTpQq1a9zhI
/fEwvhl7Jwhk

Emil El Zapato

17th December 2024, 09:51

Hi Wind,

Dr. Jacques Vallee proposed this scenario decades ago in the book, "Messengers of Deception", but I'm not sure what the end goal would be? I think we are past that 'UFOs save us!' - as an analog of the Christian 2nd Coming. I would hope that we know better but then there is MAGA.

Blonde haired MAGA remote reader...Wow that's the full package. Undermining Agent Orange...I hope to Gawd it works!

Wind

17th December 2024, 23:22

Dr. Jacques Vallee proposed this scenario decades ago in the book, "Messengers of Deception", but I'm not sure what the end goal would be? I think we are past that 'UFOs save us!' - as an analog of the Christian 2nd Coming. I would hope that we know better but then there is MAGA.

What if they try to make it so that the "aliens" would be the enemy that humanity needs to unite against?

War of the worlds. The problem is that US black ops is already involved with the bad ET's, not the good.

Blonde haired MAGA remote reader...Wow that's the full package. Undermining Agent Orange...I hope to Gawd it works!

I have watched her work for quite a while, she is not only a remote viewer, but has psychic abilities too.

Other people and groups try to claim that they would be ET's, but I don't buy it for a second.

This has Skunk Works written all over it, and it surely smells like a psychological ops.

Emil El Zapato

18th December 2024, 09:35

Emil El Zapato

19th December 2024, 09:45

What if they try to make it so that the "aliens" would be the enemy that humanity needs to unite against?

War of the worlds. The problem is that US black ops is already involved with the bad ET's, not the good.

I have watched her work for quite a while, she is not only a remote viewer, but has psychic abilities too.

Other people and groups try to claim that they would be ET's, but I don't buy it for a second.

This has Skunk Works written all over it, and it surely smells like a psychological ops.

So, I heard a video that struck a chord. It was a discussion about legislation that needs to be introduced to regulate drones in a more current scope. The idea is to include potential threats, one particularly scary one was the idea that bad actors could put a bomb on a drone and drop it on crowds gathered at sporting events, celebrations, etc. The two presenters laughed because they believed that congress (reps and senate) could never agree and pass any legislation. It hit me that the powers-that-truly-be could have considered that reality and decided that the most effective way to get legislators to act is to poke the paranoia of the right. It might work.

Emil El Zapato

19th January 2025, 11:22

So unbelievable and straightforward I'm having trouble with it... The characters have changed but in a weird way the story stays the same. Now that is something to think about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dtA9w5ldHw&t=1432s

Emil El Zapato

20th January 2025, 13:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBVKjREg9I