Some People Should Never Do Hallucinogenic Drugs

[Octopus Garden]

And I am one. Way too overwhelming and sanity threatening for me. Schizophrenia runs in my family. That brings up another interesting point. If you have psychoses in your immediate family, drugs may be entirely unnecessary to have a sense of a more expanded reality, a sense of the invisible.

I can't even smoke pot. But I do really enjoy reading the experiences of people who have tried ayahuasca, dropped heroic doses of lsd, etc...I accidentally took a heroic dose of lsd when I was a young teen. It turned out to be a beneficial experience, but it could have gone the other way, too. So, that was it for me :nails:

[Aragorn]

As I have already said elsewhere a few times, I have never done any drugs in my life, nor do I intend to go there.



First and foremost, as a high-functioning autistic and synesthetic person, everything is already way more intense for me than for anybody else — anything from physical sensations over sensory input to emotions and thoughts, and the latter is then basically what lays at the root of OCD, which in turn is a condition most (but not all) auties have to live with on a daily basis.


Secondly, I am already aware of a grander reality beyond this one, and of the oneness/connectedness of everything, because I live that. By this, I do not mean that I would be hallucinating and/or seeing ghosts or anything. It's just that I have a (slightly) different kind of consciousness — among other things, I'm an empath, and I can even feel other people's physical pain before they tell me that they're experiencing pain.


Thirdly, hallucinations are not experiences of the grander reality or the spirit world. They are called hallucinations for a reason, i.e. it is a load of neurological gibberish that the brain attempts to make sense of, similar to dreaming, but while you are awake, and considering that you are awake, the brain is fully active, as opposed to when you are dreaming while asleep.


Lastly, as the Sidinugget keeps on telling us, "Drug is bad. Don't drug." There's a reason why those substances are illegal in most jurisdictions, which is that they are addictive and that they are known to cause psychoses, even among people not normally inclined toward psychosis.


Conversely, I also don't take any psychoactive medication such as antidepressants, because I don't want anything messing with my state of mind, regardless of whether I'm feeling depressed or whatever. If I'm feeling depressed, then there's a reason for that, and then taking such medication won't take away the reason for feeling depressed in the first place, but instead it would render me insensitive by inducing a mild form of euphoria. And that is tantamount to living a lie.

The only proper way to deal with depression is to acknowledge the problem — i.e. that which gives you reason to feel depressed — and then take it from there. And you may not be able to remedy the cause of your depression — e.g. if it's something beyond your control, which it usually is — but then at least you're not living a lie, being in denial about the problem, which is what antidepressants do to you.

Just my two Eurocents, for whatever they're worth at today's exchange rates. :p

[Octopus Garden]

Hi Aragorn, I take a small amount of prozac for anxiety and its helped me tremendously without side effects. As far as psychedelic drugs go, they are NOT addictive. I can't even see anybody becoming dependent on them. The drugs of addiction that affect so many homeless are meth, opioids, cocaine. You don't see anyone living in a tent, unkempt because they have an LSD problem.

I have had waking 'hallucinations' called hypnagogic imagery, while fully awake and believe me, it wasn't disorganized jibberish produced by my own brain. There was something larger and outside of myself going on.

Will finish later. Am really tired!

[Aianawa]

Where you get addictive from Aragorn ?

[Diabolical Boids]

I've met so many neuro diversity people like myself that really have no tolerance or liking for marijuana and can't understand the attraction. I rather expected it would be other way around. I don't do any drugs myself, and drink limited amounts of alcohol. I can at least understand the attraction to alcohol and maybe other recreational drugs but not marijuana. Smoke, get paranoid, get anxious, get hungry, go to sleep? Where's the fun? At least a glass of champagne may give you a giggle and an appetite for dinner. I hope people who need marijuana for pain get a better effect from it.

Not a big fan of anti psychotic drugs myself except for the instances of anxiety. Anxiety can be easily controlled without drugs but when events cause it to accelerate, or things happen bang bang bang with no opportunity to process or recover in between Anxiety can be amazingly disabling in even very strong-willed people. It's not in the mind its in the body, and feels like someone is sawing an out tune fiddle on your nervous system. I never thought I would take xanax and I never thought of myself as anxious person but then again I never thought I'd have nine bags of trauma dumped on me at once with no time to cope or process in between before the next train hit me.

Can't speak for depression but its as crippling as high anxiety people will need a step down to the point they can process and learn to control it on their own by whatever means. I think a lot of the process and therapy part of neuro science has been eliminated though in favor of simply dispensing.


As I have already said elsewhere a few times, I have never done any drugs in my life, nor do I intend to go there.



First and foremost, as a high-functioning autistic and synesthetic person, everything is already way more intense for me than for anybody else — anything from physical sensations over sensory input to emotions and thoughts, and the latter is then basically what lays at the root of OCD, which in turn is a condition most (but not all) auties have to live with on a daily basis.


Secondly, I am already aware of a grander reality beyond this one, and of the oneness/connectedness of everything, because I live that. By this, I do not mean that I would be hallucinating and/or seeing ghosts or anything. It's just that I have a (slightly) different kind of consciousness — among other things, I'm an empath, and I can even feel other people's physical pain before they tell me that they're experiencing pain.


Thirdly, hallucinations are not experiences of the grander reality or the spirit world. They are called hallucinations for a reason, i.e. it is a load of neurological gibberish that the brain attempts to make sense of, similar to dreaming, but while you are awake, and considering that you are awake, the brain is fully active, as opposed to when you are dreaming while asleep.


Lastly, as the Sidinugget keeps on telling us, "Drug is bad. Don't drug." There's a reason why those substances are illegal in most jurisdictions, which is that they are addictive and that they are known to cause psychoses, even among people not normally inclined toward psychosis.


Conversely, I also don't take any psychoactive medication such as antidepressants, because I don't want anything messing with my state of mind, regardless of whether I'm feeling depressed or whatever. If I'm feeling depressed, then there's a reason for that, and then taking such medication won't take away the reason for feeling depressed in the first place, but instead it would render me insensitive by inducing a mild form of euphoria. And that is tantamount to living a lie.

The only proper way to deal with depression is to acknowledge the problem — i.e. that which gives you reason to feel depressed — and then take it from there. And you may not be able to remedy the cause of your depression — e.g. if it's something beyond your control, which it usually is — but then at least you're not living a lie, being in denial about the problem, which is what antidepressants do to you.

Just my two Eurocents, for whatever they're worth at today's exchange rates. :p

[Emil El Zapato]

And I am one. Way too overwhelming and sanity threatening for me. Schizophrenia runs in my family. That brings up another interesting point. If you have psychoses in your immediate family, drugs may be entirely unnecessary to have a sense of a more expanded reality, a sense of the invisible.

I can't even smoke pot. But I do really enjoy reading the experiences of people who have tried ayahuasca, dropped heroic doses of lsd, etc...I accidentally took a heroic dose of lsd when I was a young teen. It turned out to be a beneficial experience, but it could have gone the other way, too. So, that was it for me :nails:

Actually OG, a psychedelic trip has been compared to schizophrenia as being similar in nature. I quit smoking pot because it made me feel beyond weird. Telepathic and paranoid because of it, overwhelmingly self-conscious...in a word extremely neurotic. I've had telepathic experiences when straight. I made attempts to verify them with a degree of success but I think the subjects might have been biased in some cases. I think I've made my clairvoyance recognizable to a number of people.

It is what brought me to these crazed alternative forums. I was looking for external validation that I wasn't just crazy. I soon realized that the boarders were crazy not me. :)

Someone labeled me as clairvoyant whereas I had always viewed it as precognition but yeah sometimes clairvoyant.

[Emil El Zapato]

I'm curious OG, have you ever been diagnosed as schizophrenic? Because if schizophrenia hits it usually happens early in life, it seems I'm remembering early twenties.

[Emil El Zapato]

I've met so many neuro diversity people like myself that really have no tolerance or liking for marijuana and can't understand the attraction. I rather expected it would be other way around. I don't do any drugs myself, and drink limited amounts of alcohol. I can at least understand the attraction to alcohol and maybe other recreational drugs but not marijuana. Smoke, get paranoid, get anxious, get hungry, go to sleep? Where's the fun? At least a glass of champagne may give you a giggle and an appetite for dinner. I hope people who need marijuana for pain get a better effect from it.

Not a big fan of anti psychotic drugs myself except for the instances of anxiety. Anxiety can be easily controlled without drugs but when events cause it to accelerate, or things happen bang bang bang with no opportunity to process or recover in between Anxiety can be amazingly disabling in even very strong-willed people. It's not in the mind its in the body, and feels like someone is sawing an out tune fiddle on your nervous system. I never thought I would take xanax and I never thought of myself as anxious person but then again I never thought I'd have nine bags of trauma dumped on me at once with no time to cope or process in between before the next train hit me.

Can't speak for depression but its as crippling as high anxiety people will need a step down to the point they can process and learn to control it on their own by whatever means. I think a lot of the process and therapy part of neuro science has been eliminated though in favor of simply dispensing.

pain pot is non-psychoactive, off and on I did therapy and always either felt let down or abandoned, just give me the drugs.

[Emil El Zapato]

I think sharing life experiences is what the world needs. I might be sounding a bit like big brother here but I've long thought that what the U.S. needs desperately is a public broadcast program for mental health, Oprah could be the host.

La Sombrero land might laugh at such a concept but that is because their need to segregate and separate the worldview from owned experience overwhelms their authenticity. (In short, compartmentalization for self-protection).


I had a teacher in early grammar school say that the way to remember how to spell despERATe was to use the mnemonic 'there is a rat in desp a rat e'

She was flat wrong. It's no wonder I didn't win the National Spelling Bee. I had another teacher give me a word to spell: Potiont/potient. I had to ask her to repeat because I had never heard the word before: she repeated potiont/potient. So I spelled potient. The word was POTION. oy vey!

[Diabolical Boids]

I think sharing life experiences is what the world needs. I might be sounding a bit like big brother here but I've long thought that what the U.S. needs desperately is a public broadcast program for mental health, Oprah could be the host.

La Sombrero land might laugh at such a concept but that is because their need to segregate and separate the worldview from owned experience overwhelms their authenticity. (In short, compartmentalization for self-protection).


I had a teacher in early grammar school say that the way to remember how to spell despERATe was to use the mnemonic 'there is a rat in desp a rat e'

She was flat wrong. It's no wonder I didn't win the National Spelling Bee. I had another teacher give me a word to spell: Potiont/potient. I had to ask her to repeat because I had never heard the word before: she repeated potiont/potient. So I spelled potient. The word was POTION. oy vey!

Another reminder that the experts are not infallible. Half the time they are barely fallible, and we have to think for ourselves. We have to be our own authoritarians. We do not have a good mental health program and the chances having something that benefits us instead of some corporation may be slim. At this point we are going to have to be our own advocates for our own and each other's care.

It's something I wrestle with, paradoxical thinking of 'it's okay/ it's not okay' thinking. I think sometimes these conspiracy theories, true or not, paranoid thinking or not, contribute a lot to opening our minds but also instilling self-limiting beliefs while we are at it. I know the whole field of alternative medicine and nutrition has set up some self-limiting beliefs, and even fears to the point I have fear based view of food and food should be met with gratitude not dread or worry. I went there to improve my health not destroy it.


A merry go round of confusion. Low carb, high fat, eat fruit, don't eat fruit, organic, inorganic, don't have licorice--over the last couple months I've been schizophrenic about food and actually my health and mental state have suffered over it greatly. Over food. Food. Not the boogie man, not if there is a heaven or hell, the NWO or if the world is going to end but over flippin' food--vegan, not vegan, vegetarian, fruitarian, guilt, shame, fear, rationalization flip flopping my eating driven by emotions. Don't eat, means lose weight. Losing weight means I'm then bound into a cycle of stuffing myself to hold my own and not lose too much. Freaking out because my weight deviates 3 pounds up or down every week. . Every meal is an agony of indecision and doubt and consequences. And I did that to myself. Consciously and unconsciously. Not because of scarcity or quality but because of little aversions and fears wrought from an excess of information--thoughts, not reality--from the input of too many damned experts and authoritarians and blabber mouths instead of taking a balanced approach. I had myself convinced that eating even anti-inflammatory carbs would intensify pain conditions and it was absolutely not true. It was the anxiety causing the increase in pain. Because anxiety was my apertif. Get all worked about about meals, then wonder why I didn't feel good afterwards.

I set all that up inside me until food and I were at war with other causing more pain, more anxiety. All over a simple thing like a piece of toast, or an egg, a pear. I even stopped eating because I was tired of the war. No appetite. Had to force myself to eat.

Finally I put foot down with myself and said, eat what is there, eat what you want (within reason) eat what is neccessary for you in this day, this moment, eat what is set before you and be grateful and be steadfast in the belief that it won't harm and your body knows what it needs and what its doing and if anyone has any comments on it, then boot them out of your narrative. Then be grateful again. So what if I lose weight, so what if I gain weight, so what if it makes me sleepy, so what if I inadvertently sedated myself with food, so what if skip a meal or am a little piggy at the next one, so what if not approved by the vegans, vegetarians, breatharians, fruitarians, carnivores, nutritionists or the American Medical Society. Eat it, love it, be grateful and fuck the rest of it. I'm not against anti anxiety medicine but I shouldn't have to take it for an everyday damn thing like food. People with real anxiety over real issues and trauma probably think I'm a GD idiot compared to what they are struggling with and I agree . Enoughs enough.


Drugs are not for me but also there may be a future point in time that it may be helpful and I wouldn't want to eschew something beneficial for me in the future but not perhaps now because I had set up a belief system against it. That's not a future I want to envision for myself having to have some mind altering drug but I also don't want to be rigid because eliminating any sort of limiting belief(s) means you are opening yourself to a future with all sorts of possibilities and different pathways which are actually created in the now. Depression is being caught in the past, anxiety fixated on a future or getting all wrought up about stuff that hasn't happened yet although in your body it seems to be.

[Aragorn]

Where you get addictive from Aragorn ?

Well, I don't know about LSD, but I've seen plenty of addiction to substances — including pot — in my social circles, so... :noidea:

[Diabolical Boids]

I guess the climax to this is somewhat unrelated but relative to fear thinking that causes anxiety. Me making a better choice than the one I unconsciously would otherwise take. Or not letting the inner terrorist make decisions for me. None of it involved making a better choice than taking Xanax.

I have a profound mistrust and fear of the medical community especially after years of pharma/ doctor abuse and especially after Covid. Basically I had myself convinced if I had to go to a hospital or have a procedure I'd die of fright before the medical community got me. I am right to have concerns but I think my inner critic has taken it to extremes until its become a terrorist in my head that makes me made bad choices all unconsciously . All unconscious thinking and unself serving belief reaffirmed by conscious thoughts. Fear fear fear.

So yay, I find I have to go for a procedure since what you resist will persist. No anesthesia, told it would be uncomfortable to painful to very painful. I could do it then or wait a couple days. I chose to wait a couple days and work on creating the procedure in the now---not painful, optimal results, no anxiety, no dying of fright on the table or trauma creation, Then I went against my grain of doing things, dropping stubbornness to proceed in my way even though it wouldn't produce the best possible outcome. I took control by surrendering. Drop the mistrust in myself and doctors, drop the stubbornness, drop a bunch of shit. Whatever shit I could drop and let go of I did. I expressed a bunch of anxiety and concerns to the doctor feeling like a real weak ass and she just looked at me and said. You're tough.

Then I did what I normally would not do ever before the procedure. I took 3 ibuprofen, and a xanax. To me this is the equivalent of drinking hemlock. Committing moral suicide. But it was a different choice than what I would normally make.

Then while i'm lying on the table waiting for the doctor I did a gamma meditation breathing exercise. By the time the doctor came in I was a limp noodle relaxed and focused on staying very present even thought I was in a semi state of altered consciousness.

The procedure was uncomfortable. It was foreign and new to me. I couldn't predict what would happen. But I didn't want to either in case I was predicting something awful. But i just kept breathing, staying in the present so the immediate future would be great. It was uncomfortable but manageable, most of discomfort was about how I thought it about rather than physical pain, I kept on breathing and making my body relax when I feared the discomfort was suddenly going to escalate instead of creating those conditions i just kept breathing. I even told the doctor if she thought I was tensing too much to remind me to breathe again. The equipment kept breaking so it took longer and longer to complete and I was okay instead of panicking. I didn't stare at the equipment since my imagination would run wild and turn it into instruments of torture. I breathed, focused on my heart, told my body to relax repeatedly and to give it credit it did.

Perversely the procedure was less painful than the damned psychomatic pain I was having over the flippin food issues. I even thought "You know what. I'd rather be here than at work. I'm grateful I'm here instead of at work."

Towards the very end I did ask if we almost through since I wasn't sure how much longer I could hold that space. But I was asking a question I already knew the answer too. Clearly we were almost done. Perversely I'm suddenly starving, wanting a nap instead of a freak out or wanting to collapse somewhere as if I'd just escaped a harrowing experience. She finished up and then she wanted me to lie there because people often felt weak and dizzy afterwards. I felt fine. I was tired of lying down. So she doubtful but said let's trying sitting up. I was a chipper as a chipmonk but still relaxed. No dizziness, weakness, light headed ness, pain, or the usual expected results. So seemed sort of nonplussed but decided to discharge me then instead of waiting. I got up , got dressed, and walked around like and even tidied up my table. She was seemed a little confused but happy I was okay. So off I went. I was pretty grateful that it was over but also that I had taken control by relinquishing it.

Took my grateful ass to a diner, and ate with a good appetite instead of judging my food, how I felt, the after effects of the procedure predicting or speculating. It's like I got some mildly annoying task out of the way instead of a great frightening experience I was thinking of it as before. I was pleased with myself and the work I did instead of the pit of self loathing for being an anxious mess over nothing. The waitress handed me a cup of coffee . My mind immediately started that self criticism. "Oh sure take a xanax and then have a cup of coffee that's real counter intuitive, jack your brain chemistry up and then jack it back down again....

And I told the critic to naff off, coffee wasn't the problem it and its big mouth was the problem. It shut up. No interior comments or how I shouldn't eat bread, and didn't those foods have fungus on them, and was that jelly corn syrup based? I ate in peace for the first time in years. It wasn't organic, or macro, micro, whatever. It was just food.

I finally picked up my mug of coffee daring the inner terrorist to say something when I put creamer in it. The mug had a motto on it that said "You are strong."

That gave me just an amazing moment. I just sat and stared it. Yeah I took that as an synchronization and an affirmation.

[Emil El Zapato]

As I have already said elsewhere a few times, I have never done any drugs in my life, nor do I intend to go there.



First and foremost, as a high-functioning autistic and synesthetic person, everything is already way more intense for me than for anybody else — anything from physical sensations over sensory input to emotions and thoughts, and the latter is then basically what lays at the root of OCD, which in turn is a condition most (but not all) auties have to live with on a daily basis.


Secondly, I am already aware of a grander reality beyond this one, and of the oneness/connectedness of everything, because I live that. By this, I do not mean that I would be hallucinating and/or seeing ghosts or anything. It's just that I have a (slightly) different kind of consciousness — among other things, I'm an empath, and I can even feel other people's physical pain before they tell me that they're experiencing pain.


Thirdly, hallucinations are not experiences of the grander reality or the spirit world. They are called hallucinations for a reason, i.e. it is a load of neurological gibberish that the brain attempts to make sense of, similar to dreaming, but while you are awake, and considering that you are awake, the brain is fully active, as opposed to when you are dreaming while asleep.


Lastly, as the Sidinugget keeps on telling us, "Drug is bad. Don't drug." There's a reason why those substances are illegal in most jurisdictions, which is that they are addictive and that they are known to cause psychoses, even among people not normally inclined toward psychosis.


Conversely, I also don't take any psychoactive medication such as antidepressants, because I don't want anything messing with my state of mind, regardless of whether I'm feeling depressed or whatever. If I'm feeling depressed, then there's a reason for that, and then taking such medication won't take away the reason for feeling depressed in the first place, but instead it would render me insensitive by inducing a mild form of euphoria. And that is tantamount to living a lie.

The only proper way to deal with depression is to acknowledge the problem — i.e. that which gives you reason to feel depressed — and then take it from there. And you may not be able to remedy the cause of your depression — e.g. if it's something beyond your control, which it usually is — but then at least you're not living a lie, being in denial about the problem, which is what antidepressants do to you.

Just my two Eurocents, for whatever they're worth at today's exchange rates. :p

I think that's the wrong impression of antidepressants. They dull the pain and thus make one more able to deal with it head on. It is the stuff rattling around in our brains unbeknownst to us that is damaging. Sigmund Freud believed that one can't squash it because it will always manifest in another way. I learned that lesson after about 25 years of suffering.

I tell you a surprising side affect of SSRI's. When I first started taking them I went to a therapist and one of his first questions was why did the shrink put me on them. I couldn't remember...the discomfort, that is, I was fully in touch with why it had been there and still am, oftentimes it comes out in my dreams. Dreams are an avenue for awareness of what is going on underneath the covers.

[Emil El Zapato]

Another reminder that the experts are not infallible. Half the time they are barely fallible, and we have to think for ourselves. We have to be our own authoritarians. We do not have a good mental health program and the chances having something that benefits us instead of some corporation may be slim. At this point we are going to have to be our own advocates for our own and each other's care.

It's something I wrestle with, paradoxical thinking of 'it's okay/ it's not okay' thinking. I think sometimes these conspiracy theories, true or not, paranoid thinking or not, contribute a lot to opening our minds but also instilling self-limiting beliefs while we are at it. I know the whole field of alternative medicine and nutrition has set up some self-limiting beliefs, and even fears to the point I have fear based view of food and food should be met with gratitude not dread or worry. I went there to improve my health not destroy it.


A merry go round of confusion. Low carb, high fat, eat fruit, don't eat fruit, organic, inorganic, don't have licorice--over the last couple months I've been schizophrenic about food and actually my health and mental state have suffered over it greatly. Over food. Food. Not the boogie man, not if there is a heaven or hell, the NWO or if the world is going to end but over flippin' food--vegan, not vegan, vegetarian, fruitarian, guilt, shame, fear, rationalization flip flopping my eating driven by emotions. Don't eat, means lose weight. Losing weight means I'm then bound into a cycle of stuffing myself to hold my own and not lose too much. Freaking out because my weight deviates 3 pounds up or down every week. . Every meal is an agony of indecision and doubt and consequences. And I did that to myself. Consciously and unconsciously. Not because of scarcity or quality but because of little aversions and fears wrought from an excess of information--thoughts, not reality--from the input of too many damned experts and authoritarians and blabber mouths instead of taking a balanced approach. I had myself convinced that eating even anti-inflammatory carbs would intensify pain conditions and it was absolutely not true. It was the anxiety causing the increase in pain. Because anxiety was my apertif. Get all worked about about meals, then wonder why I didn't feel good afterwards.

I set all that up inside me until food and I were at war with other causing more pain, more anxiety. All over a simple thing like a piece of toast, or an egg, a pear. I even stopped eating because I was tired of the war. No appetite. Had to force myself to eat.

Finally I put foot down with myself and said, eat what is there, eat what you want (within reason) eat what is neccessary for you in this day, this moment, eat what is set before you and be grateful and be steadfast in the belief that it won't harm and your body knows what it needs and what its doing and if anyone has any comments on it, then boot them out of your narrative. Then be grateful again. So what if I lose weight, so what if I gain weight, so what if it makes me sleepy, so what if I inadvertently sedated myself with food, so what if skip a meal or am a little piggy at the next one, so what if not approved by the vegans, vegetarians, breatharians, fruitarians, carnivores, nutritionists or the American Medical Society. Eat it, love it, be grateful and fuck the rest of it. I'm not against anti anxiety medicine but I shouldn't have to take it for an everyday damn thing like food. People with real anxiety over real issues and trauma probably think I'm a GD idiot compared to what they are struggling with and I agree . Enoughs enough.


Drugs are not for me but also there may be a future point in time that it may be helpful and I wouldn't want to eschew something beneficial for me in the future but not perhaps now because I had set up a belief system against it. That's not a future I want to envision for myself having to have some mind altering drug but I also don't want to be rigid because eliminating any sort of limiting belief(s) means you are opening yourself to a future with all sorts of possibilities and different pathways which are actually created in the now. Depression is being caught in the past, anxiety fixated on a future or getting all wrought up about stuff that hasn't happened yet although in your body it seems to be.

That's a great post and you are most correct.

[Wind]

I agree in the sense that psychedelics shouldn't be recommended for the faint of heart or people who have underlying mental issues.

Same with pot, it's not going to help people who are prone to paranoia and psychosis. Granted, I've not done pot so I don't even know how it feels. It's however known from studies that psychedelics can't get you addicted to them. At best you might just get addicted to the experience and you won't do anything with the healing or information that you are presented with. Psychedelics do that, they show you things about you and the world, they literally open your mind and allow you to see things from a different vantage point which is a massively helpful tool for some people, including for people who suffer from depression. I'd say that especially for politicians and other clowns it would be necessary for to take psychedelics so that they could learn to develop some damn empathy and common sense.

My mind is not normal either and I feel and see a lot, that is the price for sensitivity. I hardly drink any alcohol, I can't even drink coffee because any stimulants are too much for me. It makes me anxious and my body gets all weird. I guess that's my mega Virgo side (Ascendant too in it) so my stomach is very sensitive and anything I put there is going to affect me greatly. So whatever that alters my mind or consciousness, I have to usually take it less than others. I don't do "drugs", although I am open to plants. This reality is a trip.

Paracelsus, possibly the greatest physician to ever live said this;

"All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison."

[Emil El Zapato]

I agree in the sense that psychedelics shouldn't be recommended for the faint of heart or people who have underlying mental issues.

Same with pot, it's not going to help people who are prone to paranoia and psychosis. Granted, I've not done pot so I don't even know how it feels. It's however known from studies that psychedelics can't get you addicted to them. At best you might just get addicted to the experience and you won't do anything with the healing or information that you are presented with. Psychedelics do that, they show you things about you and the world, they literally open your mind and allow you to see things from a different vantage point which is a massively helpful tool for some people, including for people who suffer from depression. I'd say that especially for politicians and other clowns it would be necessary for to take psychedelics so that they could learn to develop some damnempathy and common sense.

My mind is not normal either and I feel and see a lot, that is the price for sensitivity. I hardly drink any alcohol, I can't even drink caffeine because any stimulants are too much for me. It makes me anxious and my body gets all weird. I guess that's my mega Virgo side (Ascendant too in it) so my stomach is very sensitive and anything I put there is going to affect me greatly. So whatever that alters my mind or consciousness, I have to usually take it less than others. I don't do "drugs", although I am open to plants. This reality is a trip.

Paracelsus, possibly the greatest physician to ever live said this;

"All things are poisons, for there is nothing without poisonous qualities. It is only the dose which makes a thing poison."

Paraclesus had it going on...You should read about Lucanus the Greek physician, later to be known as the Apostle St. Luke.

[Diabolical Boids]

I think that's the wrong impression of antidepressants. They dull the pain and thus make one more able to deal with it head on. It is the stuff rattling around in our brains unbeknownst to us that is damaging. Sigmund Freud believed that one can't squash it because it will always manifest in another way. I learned that lesson after about 25 years of suffering.

I tell you a surprising side affect of SSRI's. When I first started taking them I went to a therapist and one of his first questions was why did the shrink put me on them. I couldn't remember...the discomfort, that is, I was fully in touch with why it had been there and still am, oftentimes it comes out in my dreams. Dreams are an avenue for awareness of what is going on underneath the covers.

I haven't taken anti depressants but that strikes a note with me in terms of anti-anxiety meds. I just needed something to allow me some space between the continuous shit, the high pitched singing in my body and nerves so I could make some rationalize or intuitive decision and get some sleep. Sleep deprivation is awful. It was beyond discomfort it was dysfunctional, physically and mentally. I wasn't crazy or a basket case, I felt like I was plugged into a high voltage machine, jitter bugging everywhere but getting no where. And if I wasn't actually anxious, I was anxious about the next bout of anxiety I would have.

So the xanax. Not so I could be a noodle, but to break that chain so I could sleep, begin to intuit again, think, reconnect and get some control by the usual avenues that didn't involve medicine.

So three days. Not consecutive days, but three days I took one Xanax a day so I could find some space to be free from body. The first day was an Atavan, and I did nothing but sleep like a rock for 10 hours and I was a new person after months of sleep deprivation. During those days I could willfully take control and start to process, step myself down to a place of calm, reflect, whatever I had to do. Then I didn't take it, I got caught up on more sleep, I was getting it under control, examining my thoughts, behaviors, meditating. Then when I ran up into a situation that was a potential triggering point I would take another one if I had to. It's not really about what I was taking anyway, it was more about taking control and breaking old patterns and choices that caused the damned anxiety in the first place and making new ones. And for the love of God shut up that inner critic terrorist so I'm not second guessing everything.

Depression may be like anxiety which is not in your head, its not in your brain, it's in your body. Consciousness is throughout the entire body. There's a heart brain connection. The gut is considered the second brain. They are not distinct and separate the mind and body. With the consciousness through the body, the mind is conditioning the body.

If someone is conditioning it in positive ways, that's great. But if it's negative though patterns the mind is conditioning the body with then the body gets so conditioned by the mind that suddenly it becomes the mind and starts running the mind so the mind can no longer override it and has to find a way to find mind over matter. It's at this point things get messy physically and mentally, so you have to find a way to establish mental dominance over the body. Psychoactive medication is a way, for some, to shut the body up so the mind can get some equilibrium and begin taking control again and eventually without the medication.

I know its an entirely different way of looking at things, that the body is taking charge and not the mind but it seems more effective than the traditional thought on the matter. It's based on Dr Joe Dispenza's work and he has described some fascinating stuff occurring in his workshops when people seize control of the body with their minds. He's of the same mindset, take what you need to take without judgements until you can have enough space to establish a point of the mind reconditioning the body.

[Diabolical Boids]

Using the same Dispenza mode of healing, go to the polar opposite.

The people, like I did, refused to go to antipsychotics, because of whatever belief is in their head and just kept experiencing worsening problems. There's two sorts. The sorts of who have all sorts of problems are not optimally healthy, not doing inner work to good effect even if they think they are. Their body's are busy creating psychosomatic issues based on unresolved issues they can't get into because they are so ungrounded they can't. So they may as well be taking a bad disease producing drug because their imbalanced brain chemistry is producing basically bad chemicals that effect mind and body in bad ways.

Then the other people. They don't medicate, they are pure, they are solving their chronic emotional, mental and physical issues by meditation and other self correction methods. So they refuse the validity of antipsychotic chemicals deeming it unnecessary not just for themselves but for others. But their brains have also turned into little pharmacies making the correct chemicals and doses for self healing. The only difference is they aren't getting a prescription, they are writing it themselves. That's a good place to be and that's the place we all need to be but stay out of the self judgement part.

Ironic, eh?

[Emil El Zapato]

True stuff...heavy contemplation. I had dental surgery sometime back and since my blood pressure temporarily hit 200 from the usual 120 at an earlier time (I'm not afraid of dentists, beyond their white coats) now they always insist on drugging me up even when I say I don't want it. Last time was Atavan described as a 'mild sedative'. It knocked me cold so afterwards I talked to the pharmacist that filled the pre-surgery prescription about it and he suggested that perhaps I was sleep deprived. If that is mild sedation, I"m staying away from the heavy stuff (at least in the dentist chair).

They hate me because I never follow the rules. The first time they drugged me I drove to the appt and they have been freaked out ever since. I was lucky that I made it, the last thing I remember is the nurse calling my name and starting the walk to the door, that was it. They never told me not to drive.

Another funny one is that they tried nitrous oxide the time my blood pressure just about popped the thermometer, I told them it wouldn't work, I'd never had it before but I knew it wasn't going to do a damn thing, it didn't. My bp went up. They finally said I had to see a physician to get my blood pressure under control or they would have to stop treating me. So off I went to the M.D. and he verified what I already knew...white coat effect. So he signed documentation stating that I didn't have high blood pressure rather the problem was that I was mentally cracked.

[Wind]

Depression is still something I struggle with and I wonder if it's linked to health issues or just how I perceive this sad world.

I took antidepressants way over a decade ago and they probably worked, but I'm not sure if they were SSRI's. I never wanted to take them again, I just felt like I didn't need any and when I read about the problems with SSRI, I became even more hesitant to ever put something like that into my body. That was even during my awful anxiety and yes anxiety can be hell, PTSD is just even a more severe form of that. Then you truly know that hell exists... Here. Even then no medication for me and I'm not a glutton for punishment either. Including anti anxiety medication. I just like to take reality often as raw as possible. Although when I take a drink if I do then it does something to my buzzy brain, it slows down which feels wonderful. That's because alcohol is a downer, it brings your consciousness down.

Maybe some strains of weed would make me relaxed, but even then I would be hesitant about getting into it as it could become a crutch.

I don't like mushrooms and the ones I've tasted (not magic) tasted bad to me. Maybe there are good ones, magic too?

LSD is made from psilocybin and what I find interesting about that particular is that it makes people feel divine love.

Ayahuasca (https://youtu.be/ywGqltO_Wos) which contains DMT, the spirit molecule is on a whole another level as a healing tool.

zw9iFZMYpMU
ISM9OeWs7yw

[Octopus Garden]

I'm curious OG, have you ever been diagnosed as schizophrenic? Because if schizophrenia hits it usually happens early in life, it seems I'm remembering early twenties.

No, not diagnosed and never medicated for it, so I don't think I am. But I've been told I am over-the-top psychic by friends. Whatever my 'abilities' are, in that regard, I shy away from thinking of myself in those terms because it seems kind of egocentric and New Agey.

I have had some crazy pre-cog experiences, though, that involved something dangerous that was going to happen to my pets. Because of the dreams I'd had I was able to prevent them from happening the next day. I have also been able to get inside the mind of a cat and direct its actions to some degree. That was many years ago. I have no idea how I did it!

[Octopus Garden]

I've met so many neuro diversity people like myself that really have no tolerance or liking for marijuana and can't understand the attraction. I rather expected it would be other way around. I don't do any drugs myself, and drink limited amounts of alcohol. I can at least understand the attraction to alcohol and maybe other recreational drugs but not marijuana. Smoke, get paranoid, get anxious, get hungry, go to sleep? Where's the fun? At least a glass of champagne may give you a giggle and an appetite for dinner. I hope people who need marijuana for pain get a better effect from it.

Not a big fan of anti psychotic drugs myself except for the instances of anxiety. Anxiety can be easily controlled without drugs but when events cause it to accelerate, or things happen bang bang bang with no opportunity to process or recover in between Anxiety can be amazingly disabling in even very strong-willed people. It's not in the mind its in the body, and feels like someone is sawing an out tune fiddle on your nervous system. I never thought I would take xanax and I never thought of myself as anxious person but then again I never thought I'd have nine bags of trauma dumped on me at once with no time to cope or process in between before the next train hit me.

Can't speak for depression but its as crippling as high anxiety people will need a step down to the point they can process and learn to control it on their own by whatever means. I think a lot of the process and therapy part of neuro science has been eliminated though in favor of simply dispensing.

For many anxiety disorders, mild anti-depressants are like taking insulin for diabetes. Something brain-wise is off. Prozac doesn't make me euphoric at all, just not as easily rattled. I am still anxious. it just takes the extreme edges off. I do feel more confident as easing anxiety helps with social anxiety. I agree that there is way too much focus on dispensing and not enough at getting at the root problem and trying to solve it, which is what Aragorn mentioned. You are both right about that!

I have Ehlers Danlos syndrome, as well as ME/CFS. People with this syndrome are predisposed to both autism, anxiety, and post viral syndromes, like CFS and Long Covid. And that has to do with the basic architecture of the brain. The same enzyme that is missing in connective tissue in the body, may also be missing in the brain. Anyway, too much information!! Sorry

[Catsquotl]

Personally having been on the strong anti medicinal drugs front and a recreational drug user..

Toe each his own at different times. I have seen people die from exhaustion through the lack of medicinal treatment of psychosis.
I have seen people die from years of slightly overdosed anti-anxiety drugs. (then again without that his life would have been way more complicated and hellish than it was in the end.

So I'm going to say that there's a time and place for everything.
A part of me believes that without hallucinogens we may never have evolved.

As far as anti-depressants go.
Any one who has cared for someone with or suffered clinical depression themselves, would hail anti depressants at some point for a while.
I may even go as far as saying if you didn't you probably weren't clinically depressed.

[Diabolical Boids]

My friend, milligram wise, takes an a staggering amount of THC. Dedicated stoners are in awe of how much THC she ingests daily and still functions better than a lot of non drug using people. She even works for a doctor. Not necessarily smoking, but edibles. So does her husband. Their recent medical history is one long car or heavy equipment wreck. Broken bones, crushed feet, crushed knees, joint replacements so a lot of chronic pain.It's weird how many accidents happened to accommodate their love of pot smoking. But in a lot of other people she would be sedentary and on disability. She goes to work everyday, remains feisty and pretty much engaged in life socially. She's been a life long pot smoker but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident.

My daughter smokes for her anxiety. She doesn't want to take anti-anxiety drugs and I respect that. But she also has some hormonally based health issues which also contribute to her anxiety and physical health. Which creates more anxiety. She in no way abusing pot and she does try to manage her anxiety holistically, but I had to ask her "Are you sure huffing more estrogen on a daily and regular basis really helpful in terms of your endocrine issues?" That stopped her dead in her tracks. I don't think anyone on the street or in the dispensary ever told her that marijuana and THC is basically an estrogen feast.

A friend at work spends literally 3/4s of his paycheck at dispensaries on pot or THC a week. He doesn't have any health problems but he does have emotional problems. How do you support a family doing that? How much psychoactive property do you need really. Same thing. All estrogen, inability to manage emotions, more estrogen, more inability to manage emotions, because estrogen does that and pot is just loaded with estrogens.

The feminization of men? How much is conspiracy and how much is it of men absorbing estrogen into receptors that were never meant to be taken over by estrogen?

My nephew is a hot shot horticulturist pot grower. He doesn't smoke because he knows the plant i. I get the sense it even scares him a little. It's really important to respect it and he says in today's culture and climate people aren't respecting the plant --they are consuming it like Doritoes--and if you don't respect the plant there are going to be consequences, the estrogen dominance in men and women both being just one of them.

In this way I don't think of it as a relatively benign all-natural mother earthy gentle plant peddled by harmless free love hippie types. It seems like a force of nature, like a lion that its treated like a lamb until it bites and makes something like SSRI's and Prozac look like Skittles in comparison. And caveat emptor to those who don't take that into consideration.

[Emil El Zapato]

Personally having been on the strong anti medicinal drugs front and a recreational drug user..

Toe each his own at different times. I have seen people die from exhaustion through the lack of medicinal treatment of psychosis.
I have seen people die from years of slightly overdosed anti-anxiety drugs. (then again without that his life would have been way more complicated and hellish than it was in the end.

So I'm going to say that there's a time and place for everything.
A part of me believes that without hallucinogens we may never have evolved.

As far as anti-depressants go.
Any one who has cared for someone with or suffered clinical depression themselves, would hail anti depressants at some point for a while.
I may even go as far as saying if you didn't you probably weren't clinically depressed.

yeah, I agree with that completely. I'm hoping that proper use, nutrition, etc that they do not have a negative impact on life. I consider the fact that there is some evidence that SSRI's have a positive impact on cognitive decline as a good thing. It is the inflammation caused by anxiety that is deleterious.


My friend, milligram wise, takes an a staggering amount of THC. Dedicated stoners are in awe of how much THC she ingests daily and still functions better than a lot of non drug using people. She even works for a doctor. Not necessarily smoking, but edibles. So does her husband. Their recent medical history is one long car or heavy equipment wreck. Broken bones, crushed feet, crushed knees, joint replacements so a lot of chronic pain.It's weird how many accidents happened to accommodate their love of pot smoking. But in a lot of other people she would be sedentary and on disability. She goes to work everyday, remains feisty and pretty much engaged in life socially. She's been a life long pot smoker but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident.

My daughter smokes for her anxiety. She doesn't want to take anti-anxiety drugs and I respect that. But she also has some hormonally based health issues which also contribute to her anxiety and physical health. Which creates more anxiety. She in no way abusing pot and she does try to manage her anxiety holistically, but I had to ask her "Are you sure huffing more estrogen on a daily and regular basis really helpful in terms of your endocrine issues?" That stopped her dead in her tracks. I don't think anyone on the street or in the dispensary ever told her that marijuana and THC is basically an estrogen feast.

A friend at work spends literally 3/4s of his paycheck at dispensaries on pot or THC a week. He doesn't have any health problems but he does have emotional problems. How do you support a family doing that? How much psychoactive property do you need really. Same thing. All estrogen, inability to manage emotions, more estrogen, more inability to manage emotions, because estrogen does that and pot is just loaded with estrogens.

The feminization of men? How much is conspiracy and how much is it of men absorbing estrogen into receptors that were never meant to be taken over by estrogen?

My nephew is a hot shot horticulturist pot grower. He doesn't smoke because he knows the plant i. I get the sense it even scares him a little. It's really important to respect it and he says in today's culture and climate people aren't respecting the plant --they are consuming it like Doritoes--and if you don't respect the plant there are going to be consequences, the estrogen dominance in men and women both being just one of them.

In this way I don't think of it as a relatively benign all-natural mother earthy gentle plant peddled by harmless free love hippie types. It seems like a force of nature, like a lion that its treated like a lamb until it bites and makes something like SSRI's and Prozac look like Skittles in comparison. And caveat emptor to those who don't take that into consideration.

I've always been of the opinion that with THC edibles are the way to go. It is more of a physical high than mental and IS very relaxing.

[Emil El Zapato]

"but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident."

Amen to that, it happens. My ex was a walking invalid when we were married but perfectly healthy sorta. I believe she inherited a belief from her mother (a behavior model) for incapacity. I think this is where epigenetics steps in and sets the stage as we travel through life.

I read once that a woman's health is more influenced by her mother's words and beliefs on physical health than genetics

In any case, my ex was looking for a way to be dependent, didn't matter the source. She is now on permanent disability and is living her dream come true. I saw the entire scenario develop and so did my daughter for that matter. We are in full agreement as to the course of development.

[Diabolical Boids]

"but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident."

Amen to that, it happens. My ex was a walking invalid when we were married but perfectly healthy sorta. I believe she inherited a belief from her mother (a behavior model) for incapacity. I think this is where epigenetics steps in and sets the stage as we travel through life.

I read once that a woman's health is more influenced by her mother's words and beliefs on physical health than genetics

In any case, my ex was looking for a way to be dependent, didn't matter the source. She is now on permanent disability and is living her dream come true. I saw the entire scenario develop and so did my daughter for that matter. We are in full agreement as to the course of development.

"but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident."

Amen to that, it happens. My ex was a walking invalid when we were married but perfectly healthy sorta. I believe she inherited a belief from her mother (a behavior model) for incapacity. I think this is where epigenetics steps in and sets the stage as we travel through life.

I read once that a woman's health is more influenced by her mother's words and beliefs on physical health than genetics

In any case, my ex was looking for a way to be dependent, didn't matter the source. She is now on permanent disability and is living her dream come true. I saw the entire scenario develop and so did my daughter for that matter. We are in full agreement as to the course of development.

I've heard accounts of the 'invalid' by choice people dying of no known cause or apparent reason, just dropping dead, when presented with a cure for whatever ails them. They can't envision a life where they aren't a victim. I'm not even sure they try. And they get something out of it like attention, pit, sympathy, and typically people in wheelchairs don't have to put up with other people's crap like the rest of us do. They get a pass for being handicapped. But a cure represents a transition from dependence to independence they aren't prepared for and an unknown future. Likely your ex never challenged the beliefs instilled in her. When the brain requires an adjustment of chemistry it's usually because some trauma or unself serving belief has caused the chemical imbalance or self adjusted. Get rid of the belief and the effects of those beliefs and the body will begin to heal and readjust. Chemical intervention may be necessary to bridge the gap. But these beliefs and the attached emotions are addictive because they are familiar. Everyone likes familiar. Predictable so it's hard to move out of them into the unknown. And no amount of reason, or encouragement will shift them unless they really want to go there. It's challenging work even for those willing to go there.

[Emil El Zapato]

No, not diagnosed and never medicated for it, so I don't think I am. But I've been told I am over-the-top psychic by friends. Whatever my 'abilities' are, in that regard, I shy away from thinking of myself in those terms because it seems kind of egocentric and New Agey.

I have had some crazy pre-cog experiences, though, that involved something dangerous that was going to happen to my pets. Because of the dreams I'd had I was able to prevent them from happening the next day. I have also been able to get inside the mind of a cat and direct its actions to some degree. That was many years ago. I have no idea how I did it!

In regard to your earlier post about phobias. There is a definite connection between those and parental influence, usually the father.

[Diabolical Boids]

In regard to your earlier post about phobias. There is a definite connection between those and parental influence, usually the father.

Can you clarify? The psy ability comes from the father or the phobias? Both? Curious. Or did I get lost in translation between the quote and your response?


Chuckie: It is the inflammation caused by anxiety that is deleterious.


I missed that earlier. That: Inflammation. You, me, everybody, everything comes down to inflammation it seems. Mental, emotional, physical.

[Emil El Zapato]

Can you clarify? The psy ability comes from the father or the phobias? Both? Curious. Or did I get lost in translation between the quote and your response?



I missed that earlier. That: Inflammation. You, me, everybody, everything comes down to inflammation it seems. Mental, emotional, physical.

No sorry, kind of confused the issue. OG mentioned social phobia (I was given that diagnosis once). Either I read about it or was told that it was related to the relationship to the father which made sense to me. It relates to one's 'sense of security' in the world.

The half-sister that I met from DNA testing says that we likely inherited the psy tendency from our biological mother as it seems to run in the family.

As for inflammation, yeah, inflammation in the body is a generic killer, it attacks all organs including the mind.

[Diabolical Boids]

Having had this thought yesterday on the varied opinions of medical treatments, holistic, treatments, brain chemistry effecting body chemistry. Medical science isn't standardized. Yes we should trust the science but the science all offers different and mostly conflicting opinions because the science is subjected to the bias of the providers. You can look up any disease at any prominent medical facility and you don't find science. You find varied opinions about the science. No one can even agree on a diet for certain conditions. Honestly that would create opposing beliefs, confusion and neurosis in anyone and result in more disease or affliction.

Secondly how we treat or manage our conditions have become way to subjected to other people's opinions, medical professionals or not. I get the distinct sensation that if someone healed or treated themselves in a way that went against someone else's belief systems, the very act of treating or curing themselves would be so offensive people would be offended you were healthy. Like people need to die or be in chronic pain so someone else's feelings and belief systems aren't made uncomfortable or have their cage rattled. And that seems rather pathological on its own. It would also mean one had a very minimal support for any condition they were experiencing.

[Emil El Zapato]

Having had this thought yesterday on the varied opinions of medical treatments, holistic, treatments, brain chemistry effecting body chemistry. Medical science isn't standardized. Yes we should trust the science but the science all offers different and mostly conflicting opinions because the science is subjected to the bias of the providers. You can look up any disease at any prominent medical facility and you don't find science. You find varied opinions about the science. No one can even agree on a diet for certain conditions. Honestly that would create opposing beliefs, confusion and neurosis in anyone and result in more disease or affliction.

Secondly how we treat or manage our conditions have become way to subjected to other people's opinions, medical professionals or not. I get the distinct sensation that if someone healed or treated themselves in a way that went against someone else's belief systems, the very act of treating or curing themselves would be so offensive people would be offended you were healthy. Like people need to die or be in chronic pain so someone else's feelings and belief systems aren't made uncomfortable or have their cage rattled. And that seems rather pathological on its own. It would also mean one had a very minimal support for any condition they were experiencing.

Yeah, I agree, it happens all the time. Doctors of all kinds should always be questioned, not of necessity in a hostile manner, but surely questioned.

[Octopus Garden]

My friend, milligram wise, takes an a staggering amount of THC. Dedicated stoners are in awe of how much THC she ingests daily and still functions better than a lot of non drug using people. She even works for a doctor. Not necessarily smoking, but edibles. So does her husband. Their recent medical history is one long car or heavy equipment wreck. Broken bones, crushed feet, crushed knees, joint replacements so a lot of chronic pain.It's weird how many accidents happened to accommodate their love of pot smoking. But in a lot of other people she would be sedentary and on disability. She goes to work everyday, remains feisty and pretty much engaged in life socially. She's been a life long pot smoker but I still can't get over how her reality sort of arranged itself to fit her chosen lifestyle. I don't think that's an accident.

My daughter smokes for her anxiety. She doesn't want to take anti-anxiety drugs and I respect that. But she also has some hormonally based health issues which also contribute to her anxiety and physical health. Which creates more anxiety. She in no way abusing pot and she does try to manage her anxiety holistically, but I had to ask her "Are you sure huffing more estrogen on a daily and regular basis really helpful in terms of your endocrine issues?" That stopped her dead in her tracks. I don't think anyone on the street or in the dispensary ever told her that marijuana and THC is basically an estrogen feast.

A friend at work spends literally 3/4s of his paycheck at dispensaries on pot or THC a week. He doesn't have any health problems but he does have emotional problems. How do you support a family doing that? How much psychoactive property do you need really. Same thing. All estrogen, inability to manage emotions, more estrogen, more inability to manage emotions, because estrogen does that and pot is just loaded with estrogens.

The feminization of men? How much is conspiracy and how much is it of men absorbing estrogen into receptors that were never meant to be taken over by estrogen?

My nephew is a hot shot horticulturist pot grower. He doesn't smoke because he knows the plant i. I get the sense it even scares him a little. It's really important to respect it and he says in today's culture and climate people aren't respecting the plant --they are consuming it like Doritoes--and if you don't respect the plant there are going to be consequences, the estrogen dominance in men and women both being just one of them.

In this way I don't think of it as a relatively benign all-natural mother earthy gentle plant peddled by harmless free love hippie types. It seems like a force of nature, like a lion that its treated like a lamb until it bites and makes something like SSRI's and Prozac look like Skittles in comparison. And caveat emptor to those who don't take that into consideration.

I hate the feel of pot. I feel completely insane, paranoid. Curl up into a little ball and cry. Then I eat a lot. I know some people really like it and it calms them down. Amazing how people vary in their response.

[Diabolical Boids]

I hate the feel of pot. I feel completely insane, paranoid. Curl up into a little ball and cry. Then I eat a lot. I know some people really like it and it calms them down. Amazing how people vary in their response.

I know. Smoke, feel numb, paranoia, hunger, fright, pounding heart, then go to sleep. No fun. The head effective was like taking some particularly nasty cold medicine where I felt like I was in tunnel disconnected from inner and outer reality. That others can benefit or enjoy, and I have no doubt they do, must be due to different brain types or pot types. Oh then the people who can drink and smoke pot at the same time, I don't even know how they do it. When I was a young adult there was like one kind of pot as far as I knew. The one that slowed you down, gave you the munchies, and hopefully made you laugh. Now there's an entire library of them. The one that energizes, the one that relaxes, the head buzz, the body buzz. There may even be a pot that suits us out there somewhere but I'm not terribly interested in trying.

I've spent an entire life time around pot smokers who are obnoxiously adamant that I smoke with them, I mean just pushy with it, unable to understand that what they enjoy so much is pretty much a turn off for others.

I will do CBD oil though if its good quality from a dispensary.

[Wind]

I have CBD oil too because it's legal and it doesn't have THC. It actually makes you feel very peaceful and I would recommend it.

[Wind]

I recently got Stan Grof's book Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research (https://www.amazon.com/Realms-Human-Unconscious-Observations-Research/dp/0285648829).

3uCySQOMB-4


Stanislav Grof, M.D., PhD., is a psychiatrist with over sixty years of experience in research of non-ordinary states of consciousness and one of the founders and chief theoreticians of transpersonal psychology. He was born in Prague, Czechoslovakia, where he also received his scientific training: an M.D. degree from the Charles University School of Medicine and a Ph.D. degree (Doctor of Philosophy in Medicine) from the Czechoslovakian Academy of Sciences. He was also granted honorary Ph.D. degrees from the University of Vermont in Burlington, VT, Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto, CA, and the World Buddhist University in Bangkok, Thailand. In 2018 he received an honorary Ph.D. degree for Psychedelic Therapy and Healing Arts from the Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) in San Francisco, California.

Stanislav Grof is most famous for his LSD research and the observations that came from birth trauma during this rarely used, yet successful, form of psychotherapy. He is also the innovator of holotropic breathwork which allows one to enter non-ordinary states of consciousness for self exploration and empowerment. He has written many books, helped many people cope with severe traumas that stem beyond their current level of consciousness, and is currently 91 years old and lives in Germany.

[Emil El Zapato]

Grof is really good, so sure, so open. This is good stuff. He mentions his favoritism towards Hinduism or Buddhism. I understand the fascination with such philosophies but I think Christianity is overlooked because as you pointed out it is highly misunderstood probably because of the way it is practiced in the West. As Grof points out, the 'narrowness' of the Western science/psychology paradigms is very limiting.

He mentions the despoiling of the Earth and its environs, but doesn't mention the despoiling of the mind... :)

Here is my guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zz95MHLjfo

[Emil El Zapato]

Grof is really good, so sure, so open. This is good stuff. He mentions his favoritism towards Hinduism or Buddhism. I understand the fascination with such philosophies but I think Christianity is overlooked because as you pointed out it is highly misunderstood probably because of the way it is practiced in the West. As Grof points out, the 'narrowness' of the Western science/psychology paradigms is very limiting.

He mentions the despoiling of the Earth and its environs, but doesn't mention the despoiling of the mind... :)

Here is my guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zz95MHLjfo

Ken Wilber says I'm premature... :(

[Emil El Zapato]

I have never experienced the urge to be spiritually enlightened and I have often wondered why? Right or wrong it is what Wilber excels at, creating thinking frameworks for understanding. This is the first time I have ever listened to him (it was kind of hard) always read but every time he teaches me something. He outlines two spiritually-oriented paradigms, one spiritual intelligence, and the other, spiritual experience. He says further that there are dangers and bad consequences at a framework level where one isn't in balance with the other. That is where I have always been. I never wanted to have the 'ultimate' spiritual experience because I have never felt that my spiritual intelligence was equal to the task. He cites an example where an individual has the 'unity consciousness' experience but has the 'archaic' level of spiritual intelligence...bad...very bad. He said the world's mental institutions are filled with examples of that experience.

[Emil El Zapato]

Hey Wind, if you want to take a trip down the rabbit hole, this is the one that will do it. I've had a number of these experiences but they were spontaneous and not to the depth discussed in the video. It gives a heuristic approach to tripping the light fantastic and it has nothing to do with a drug. Don't let the venue fool you, this isn't a debunking of a 'myth' but something for the potential practitioner.

It was hard to determine if the edges of this round to a coherent whole but I think it would be worth taking a look if one is serious about such things:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wly9_qN-jZ0