They All Must Go

[Fred Steeves]

There's always a good sounding reason attached, can't just go around toppling uncooperative nations without selling it to the people first. This list was cobbled together fairly quickly as every one has the same general theme in thinking back over the last few decades. How many did I miss?

They're only difficult to spot when actually going down, but in hindsight, the all out propaganda pushes of the past start to come into fairly good focus. In time, the current Project to steer Western hearts and minds will start coming more and more in focus as well, but of course the name of that game is always a day late, and a dollar short. The deed is done and the world has moved on.




For America to Be Secure, Assad Must Go
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/middle-east-watch/america-be-secure-assad-must-go-205111



Maduro Must Go: Venezuelans Deserve a Functioning Democracy
https://www.heritage.org/americas/commentary/maduro-must-go-venezuelans-deserve-functioning-democracy




Qaddafi Must Go
https://www.heritage.org/americas/commentary/maduro-must-go-venezuelans-deserve-functioning-democracy




Bush: Saddam Hussein must go
https://www.cnn.com/2002/US/04/06/bush.iraq/index.html




Advice From a Prince: Milosevic Must Go
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/29/opinion/l-advice-from-a-prince-milosevic-must-go-393347.html



Richard Cohen Reminds the Left Why Castro Must Go
https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/richard-cohen-reminds-the-left-why-castro-must-go-2/



Timothy Lomperis: Putin must go
https://www.thedailytimes.com/columns/timothy_lomperis/timothy-lomperis-putin-must-go/article_a9652a0e-db9e-52ed-a72e-3390f9c3db19.html

[Aianawa]

Being well organised in advance and a plan is very important and used to be working well for the putrid ones ambitions of pain n suffering enhancement But the now of today holds a mighty wind of change.

[Fred Steeves]

Being well organised in advance and a plan is very important and used to be working well for the putrid ones ambitions of pain n suffering enhancement But the now of today holds a mighty wind of change.

There's no organized resistance Vern, not even close, you're chasing rabbits down little bunny holes thinking that! I do however understand that it comes from a good place, a good heart wanting to see good things happen, but seeing things that aren't really there is nothing but a numbing balm to the harsh reality of things.

Like it or not (and most of us do actually like it), we're all being blown about here and there on hurricane type winds, doing nothing but reacting, like waiting for the next threat to jump out and yell "boo" in a haunted house. No planning or organization is possible, in an environment of nothing but reactions to constant stimuli. And if it's not reacting to the next "boo!", it's dashing towards the next false hope.

Back and forth we go, like operating on a treadmill, always busy but never going anywhere. The hamster on its wheel would understand...

You can point to these various political uprisings, most of them now hard right wing in nature, but those themselves are just knee jerk reactions to this suffocating liberal world order (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/14584-What-The-New-World-Order-Is-What-it-Isn-t-And-Can-It-Be-Demonstratedneo). But their aim is at false aspects of it, all they're really doing is lurching large groups of people into the next wild goose chase reaction. Gun fights at the OK Corral solve nothing, they just keep us peasants divided and bickering, while at the top nothing ever changes. Smooth sailing steady as she goes.

Vern, you think the oligarchs at the very top really give much of a shit when a Donald Trump, or a Giorgia Meloni appears on stage? They're all bark and no bite, still nothing of major consequence changes at the top elite levels, they just further heighten the "us vs. them" mentality here on the ground, but the "them" part of that is just other people like you and me seeking answers and solutions themselves. It's just a circular firing squad.

One of the major templates is right there in front of us showing how easily we're corralled and controlled, I listed quite a few of them to initiate this thread, by and large we follow along like sheep whenever our rulers wish to knock over yet another nation that's not playing ball with them from bended knee.

There's a reason why we don't have more clear eyed intellects like Jeffrey Sachs out there being invited onto news shows, he's sees the game going on, and strongly recommends "stop it, just stop..." Stop the madness.

The ruining of Syria is already long forgotten, may as well be ancient history at this point, but here he was way way back in 2019 trying to get people to see what's really going on there besides the mantra "Assad must go":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abCkOe5KGxI

In this current gambit, "Putin must go" is at the very heart of it, but he represents a major power with nuclear weapons so a bit more care must be taken. Not a lot, it's still pretty damn openly brazen, but some extra care is taken. The US and NATO are not there as knights in shining armor trying desperately to save a fledgling democracy, hell, in the end they really couldn't give two shits about the suffering of those poor people, they'll fight to the very last Ukranian if they have to in order to achieve the ultimate objective.

And then they'll clink drink glasses together in celebration, maybe while dancing on another few hundred thousand fresh graves for extra spice.

Ukraine is nothing but a chess piece on the grand strategic chessboard. Not a minor piece like an easy to sacrifice pawn, more like a knight or a bishop, a little more care must be used in their sacrifice as their value is more, but sacrifice is always on the table in order to achieve the ultimate check mate.

Here's Jeffrey Sachs talking near blasphemy in this current atmosphere, I wonder how many people will immediately label him a Putin puppet for voicing such sacrilege, when all he's really doing is seizing a rare opportunity to point out the madness.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5m8m9RNxjw

[Aianawa]

You believe good people have not seen the putrids in action n organising decades ago and also made plans ?.

[Fred Steeves]

You believe good people have not seen the putrids in action n organising decades ago and also made plans ?.

It's not a matter of belief, or hope for that matter, as of yet there's zero evidence for it.

Some people point to Russia as that organized group, with Putin accurately describing the U.S. led World Order arrayed against him for daring to be a competitor (along with China), but by no means does that make him the solution.

More fool's gold. :whstl:

[Aianawa]

Not soooo long ago was zero everdance for a cabal, illumininto, elite families, obvious corruption, huge swamp, etc, it was heresay n heresy.

As always allways, one is the solution Fred, then outside of one-now-won. imo

Highest card the Fool fred.

There was n is a plan or not.

[Wind]

The eternal problem with empires.

S_WzfiB-syU

The dangers with NATO expansion.

qZGinrKFtGY

[Fred Steeves]

qZGinrKFtGY

John Mearsheimer. Another voice of reason from the realms of realpolitik.

I can see why he'd appear on a Chris Hedges fan channel.

[Fred Steeves]

Edward Herman and Noam Chomsky first co-authored a book back in the late 80's called "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media". It's as relative today as it ever was, and I'm focusing on this particular portion of its summary:



Herman and Chomsky then train their critical eyes on what they consider to be the media’s most glaring failures. They begin with the media’s strikingly different coverage of similar events based on its perception of “worthy” or “unworthy” victims. For example, the murder of a Polish priest in a communist country sparked outrage, while the similar murders of clergy in Latin America received far less attention. The Polish priest was a “worthy” victim—that is, worthy of media attention—because he was killed by an enemy state and therefore valuable as a political martyr. Clergy in Latin America are unworthy victims because their killers are U.S. “client states” and must be exonerated.
https://www.supersummary.com/manufacturing-consent/summary/

Yemen today is what they would term an "unworthy victim", because they have been invaded and occupied by an important US ally, Saudi Arabia. One would have had to be looking very hard back in 2015 to even know that an invasion of a sovereign nation had occurred, but had they stumbled across the news, here's a typical descriptor of the event:


The Arab alliance conducting the strikes initially plans a month-long campaign, but it could last five or six months, a Gulf diplomatic official said. That suggests the air campaign might cost Riyadh more than $1 billion.

Such a figure would be insignificant compared to the $707 billion of net foreign assets held by Saudi Arabia’s central bank, which acts as a sovereign wealth fund.

“The oil-rich kingdom is likely to be able to afford current Yemeni operations, particularly given its low levels of public debt and large sovereign reserves,” the IISS analysts said.

Any ground incursion into Yemen, which Riyadh has not ruled out, would cost more. It might resemble France’s intervention in Mali since 2013, a relatively low-intensity conflict involving several thousand French troops in a remote location.

French officials have estimated that cost about $3 million per day, or $90 million a month. The figure implies that in addition to the cost of air operations, Riyadh might spend over $500 million on a small ground incursion lasting six months.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-yemen-security-saudi-cost-idUSKBN0MR1KZ20150331

Debbie Downer says nothing to see here folks... It's not even an invasion it's an "incursion", it's really only a matter of money, and our buddies the French had recently done something similar in Mali so everything's fine, continue about your day.



With Libya just a few years earlier. This time it was really serious, we had another mad man on the loose, and all people of good conscience agreed he had to be stopped at all cost:

Gaddafi caught like "rat" in a drain, humiliated and shot
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-libya-gaddafi-finalhours/gaddafi-caught-like-rat-in-a-drain-humiliated-and-shot-idUSTRE79K43S20111021

Good riddance the world said, another unworthy victim. The "good guys" did their job and did it well.



Of course I could go on and on here with the litany of unworthy victims as in the original post here, but let's cut to the chase. Now suddenly, we have a rare worthy victim!


How Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine Violates International Law
https://www.cfr.org/article/how-russias-invasion-ukraine-violates-international-law

Ah yes, now suddenly we're concerned about international law! Funny how that works isn't it? This is the power of mass media. It produces "manufactured consent" (unworthy victims) when the noble cause demands, and it produces "manufactured outrage" (worthy victims) when the noble cause demands.

Reminds me of an old saying: "Fool me once shame on you, fool me 25 times shame on me".

[Fred Steeves]

The "Gadaffi Must Go!" storyline, the one that he was "passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children", is one of the few to actually be exposed for what it actually was. A story. Thanks to Hillary Clinton's emails that were exposed back in the day, we get a rare glimpse into what the real story was, and even more importantly, how empire views competition.

So what was the real story there?


France’s Designs

Plus, the propaganda themes, which stress American righteousness in standing up to foreign evil, are useful in obscuring the self-interested motives that often circle around a killing field like the one that Libya has become.

For instance, another Blumenthal memo to Clinton explained France’s political and pecuniary interests in toppling Gaddafi and thus thwarting his ambitious plans to use Libya’s oil wealth as a means of freeing parts of Africa from French domination.

In an April 2, 2011 email, Blumenthal informed Clinton that sources close to one of Gaddafi sons were reporting that “Qaddafi’s government holds 143 tons of gold, and a similar amount in silver” and the hoard had been moved from the Libyan Central Bank in Tripoli closer to the border with Niger and Chad.

“This gold was accumulated prior to the current rebellion and was intended to be used to establish a pan-African currency based on the Libyan golden Dinar. This plan was designed to provide the Francophone African Countries with an alternative to the French franc (CFA).”

Blumenthal then added that “According to knowledgeable individuals, this quantity of gold and silver is valued at more than $7 billion. French intelligence officers discovered this plan shortly after the current rebellion began, and this was one of the factors that influenced President Nicolas Sarkozy’s decision to commit France to the attack on Libya.”

The email added: “According to these individuals, Sarkozy’s plans are driven by the following issues: a. A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production, b. Increase French influence in North Africa, c. Improve his internal political situation in France, d. Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world, e. Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi’s long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in Francophone Africa.”

In an earlier email, dated March 27, 2011, Blumenthal also discussed the French interests in the conflict, citing “knowledgeable individuals” who said that Sarkozy “is pressing to have France emerge from this crisis as the principal foreign ally of any new government that takes power.”

So do you think it would it be easier for the Obama administration to rally American support behind this “regime change” by explaining how the French wanted to steal Libya’s wealth and maintain French neocolonial influence over Africa – or would Americans respond better to propaganda themes about Gaddafi passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children? Bingo!
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/01/13/what-hillary-knew-about-libya



After watching him in this brief 18 minute interview not long before his number was up, Muammar Gadaffi doesn't come across as a blood thirsty madman to me. His high crimes was to dare offer a substantive challenge to the collective West's stranglehold over Africa, and for that attempt he paid for with his life in truly barbaric fashion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUhZmO6P0NU

[Aragorn]

The "Gadaffi Must Go!" storyline, the one that he was "passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children", is one of the few to actually be exposed for what it actually was. A story.

Well, you know for a fact that it's an American concoction whenever there's even the slightest hint of sexuality in the story. The US government has always had a bizarre obsession with sexuality — especially that of whoever stands in their way. But then again, analogous to the tale of the hammer and the nail, one could easily capture the essence of the US government in the following sentence...:



"If you've made it your objective to be the biggest dick in the world, then I guess everything else looks like a pussy waiting to be fucked."


:noidea:

[Fred Steeves]

"If you've made it your objective to be the biggest dick in the world, then I guess everything else looks like a pussy waiting to be fucked."

ROFL :lol:

[Wind]

Somewhere I read that Putin has been obsessed with Gaddafi's death, he sure wouldn't want to die that way. He sure is a criminal, but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world. Only real whistleblowers and heroes end up dead or in prison.

dvuesa07irM

[Fred Steeves]

Somewhere I read that Putin has been obsessed with Gaddafi's death, he sure wouldn't want to die that way. He sure is a criminal, but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world. Only real whistleblowers and heroes end up dead or in prison.

dvuesa07irM

Well that certainly was prophetic of him, turned out it was to be his turn next.

This is one that's unfortunately all but forgotten in the American psyche, and even when it is remembered, it's only along the lines of that we led from behind. That's the only thing we see that was disgraceful about it, that we didn't lead the charge.

The collective West, in our customary arrogance, loves to look down noses at "those poor people" in places like Russia that suffer under such intense propaganda; all the while being clueless that we're dripping in our own false narratives. There's no better propaganda, than propaganda that can't be seen.

Like that cute little joke I posted from Twitter a few days ago:

An American and a Russian are drinking in a bar. The American says "that's some propaganda machine you've got over there". The Russian says "yes, but you've got some propaganda machine of your own". The American says "what propaganda?"

[Aragorn]

[...] but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world.

The United States of America and Israel are the only two UN countries that refuse to acknowledge the International Criminal Court (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court).

[Lord Sidious]

The United States of America and Israel are the only two UN countries that refuse to acknowledge the International Criminal Court (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court).

Let's hope the ICC acknowleges them


Somewhere I read that Putin has been obsessed with Gaddafi's death, he sure wouldn't want to die that way. He sure is a criminal, but then again there are courts or should be international courts where such people get charged. Of course also many US presidents and leaders should end up there and eventually in prison, but that will never happen in our world. Only real whistleblowers and heroes end up dead or in prison.

dvuesa07irM

If you see the whole video, he unloads on everyone.
Bashar Al Assad laughs at all of it too, as it's in Damascus............

[Wind]

The United States of America and Israel are the only two UN countries that refuse to acknowledge the International Criminal Court (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court).

Now I wonder why that would be. :rolleyes:

[Fred Steeves]

Let's not be leaving China and Russia out of the mix.

[Aianawa]

Is he one of the all ?




From 2005-2012, under Prime Minister Meles Zenawi, Tedros was the Minister of Health. During his tenure, he covered-up one of the worst outbreaks of cholera in Ethiopian history. Between 2012-2016, he was the Ethiopian foreign minister and was involved in the violent suppression and starvation of the rival Amhara clan. A little known biographical detail about Tedros is that he was the 3rd ranking member of the politburo of the Tigray Peoples Liberation Front (TPLF) Terrorist Organization.

[Fred Steeves]

So now, an American president cannot simply announce that the leader of another sovereign country needs to vacate their current position, or else, he needs the PR arm of his administration (otherwise known as the media) to manufacture consent for what he wants to do first. Or, as is the case in our most current Project, he needs them to manufacture outrage in order for him to do what his masters want him to do. In overtly authoritarian regimes the propaganda is correspondingly overt, right in your face and thus easy to spot; but in the liberal Western world, the soft touch is needed.

The mis/disinformation is almost... repeatedly massaged into the psyche, sounding so earnest and well meaning, expecting people busy in their daily lives to see it for what it really is, is really asking a lot. "We're the good guys out there, I've known that ever since I was taught the pledge of allegiance, these people are simply reporting the horrors of "the other", and what we 'the good guys' are going to do about it".

The little girl with the kitten scene (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNDmDZi05dY) from "Wag the Dog" is an excellent example of this. "The horror of what's happened to that poor little girl, something must be done!"

You know, come to think about it, being a citizen can be not all that dissimilar to being a member of a cult, just much much larger in scale. "My leader knows the truth about things, he has the answers, I hear all about it every day so it must be true, and it's my duty to be a good little patriot and do my part". Every now and then someone in a cult, for whatever reason and on whatever scale, starts to notice that something is just not. quite. right... And the thing is by that point, their natural inclination is to question what they're seeing, surely some reassuring answers will come my way promptly to explain it all away. But then that doesn't happen as expected. It can't.

"Now I know something's wrong, but what is it exactly?"

That about the place where this (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114491-WW3-Ukraine-US-vs.-Donbass-Russia&p=1522395&highlight=#post1522395) person looks to be, early on in the questioning stage. They did it again here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?114491-WW3-Ukraine-US-vs.-Donbass-Russia&p=1522423&highlight=#post1522423) shortly after. Even though they'll never even know it, I'm damn proud of them even getting to that point. It's exceedingly difficult to even catch a glimpse when you're utterly surrounded by it in an echo chamber that's all singing from the same hymnal. They may or may not be able to just shrug it off, a lot of people can and they're able to live with it; but if they're unable to do that, and the question keeps nagging, then they'll find that next step in their journey quite unexpectedly when further questioning winds up with them being expelled from the group and out on their ass.

The way this particular group manufactures consent for one side, other groups are doing similarly for the other side. And so it goes, either way getting to the true heart of the matter is hardly the objective.

The objective is outrage - consent - group think.

[Wind]

You know, come to think about it, being a citizen can be not all that dissimilar to being a member of a cult, just much much larger in scale.

cXbytDJFzB4

[Aragorn]

You know, come to think about it, being a citizen can be not all that dissimilar to being a member of a cult, just much much larger in scale. "My leader knows the truth about things, he has the answers, I hear all about it every day so it must be true, and it's my duty to be a good little patriot and do my part".

Or — judging by the replies said individual got from Fearless Leader™ — a good little Project MAGAlon member... :whstl:

Fearless Leader™ is about as accurate in his assessment of the situation as he has been in his assessment of each of the so-called whistleblowers and insiders he's been championing over the years, and yet he still doesn't understand that the error in judgment is virtually always on his side, both with regard to so-called whistleblowers and with regard to anything to do with politics — whether US-centric or international.

But then again, narcissists don't make mistakes. Whatever goes wrong, they'll always find someone other than themselves to blame it on. It's so predictable that you can almost set a clock to it.. :rolleyes:

[Fred Steeves]

You know, come to think about it, being a citizen can be not all that dissimilar to being a member of a cult, just much much larger in scale.

cXbytDJFzB4

Oh yeah, well lookie there, McKenna was onto that a long time ago.

One of my most recent, and vivid reminders of living in a cult ure, was for the first time in many years attending an American pro football game in Tampa this past January. The pre game ritual. 65,000 people there from so many different walks of life, different religions, politics, economic status, etc., all dutifully rise in unison, hand over hearts for the national anthem. It's done without even thinking about it, it's automatic, and it's really something to behold the power "Duty God Country has over a society. And then immediately after is the military flyover to ensure we all still get off on war.

What Terrance was saying reminds me of one of my own little pet conspiracy theories. It's no conspiracy theory that the CIA was ensuring LSD be passed around here during the 60's, but that was back when they had hoped it could be used for mind control, what almost wound up happening instead was that they almost lost all control. Next thing you know acid was out, and heroin filled the streets instead. My theory is that this was done intentionally to head off what was happening.

[modwiz]

Terrence would appreciate. Watching one of these videos is like a short DMT trip.

Machine elves speak.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s8EqaN1eB8

[Fred Steeves]

The "Gadaffi Must Go!" storyline, the one that he was "passing out Viagra to his troops so they could rape more women while his snipers targeted innocent children", is one of the few to actually be exposed for what it actually was. A story.

Gaddafi 'supplies troops with Viagra to encourage mass rape', claims diplomat
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/29/diplomat-gaddafi-troops-viagra-mass-rape


They've done it again. Too lazy to even make up new material now to paint the latest target of empire as a monster?




Russian soldiers are supplied with Viagra to rape Ukrainian women and 'dehumanize' them, claims UN official
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-soldiers-are-supplied-with-viagra-to-rape-ukrainian-women-and-dehumanize-them-claims-un-official/ar-AA130XNd?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3b90a480227a4a579b096de1b4a94fe7

See how this works?

[Fred Steeves]

Continuing on.

So Jake Tapper of CNN here in the States, IMO is the epitome of everything that's wrong with "reporting the news" in the West in general. Whenever I talk to my wife about mainstream media, I just use Jake Tapper says, and that pretty says it all. Ah what the hell, maybe I'll just start doing that here as well chuckle chuckle...

Anyway, this 10 minute clip from two people who actually do practice journalistic integrity, is an excellent side by side example of the startling difference between the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhP1h_7Jq_0&t=308s

I tune into people with actual journalistic integrity to try and maintain as good a grasp as possible of world events, tuning into "Jake Tapper" is only to keep tuned to how the powers that be want me seeing world events.

A Tale Of Two Medias. The difference is does 2+2=4, or does it =5? :hmm:

[Fred Steeves]

I don't know how this op/ed ever made it past Jake Tapper's desk, but it's very true. War at all cost, it's not just for neocons any more.


Elon Musk got in hot water again on Twitter—for proposing peace. On Monday, Musk proposed a peace deal to end the war in Ukraine, for which he was denounced as a pro-Putin puppet by the Twitter mob that has formed to police the discourse on all things related to Ukraine.

The president of Ukraine himself, Volodymyr Zelensky, accused Musk of supporting Russia—even though Musk's company SpaceX donated Starlink to Ukraine's war effort at an out-of-pocket cost of $80 million. (Full disclosure: Musk is a friend and I am an investor in SpaceX.) Ukrainian Ambassador to Germany Andrj Melnyk was less subtle, telling Elon to "f***k off," while David Frum tweeted without evidence that "Russian sources" had used Elon to float a "trial balloon" of a peace proposal because they're afraid of losing Crimea. Scores of blue-checks on Twitter followed their lead, ordering Musk to stay in his lane.

What matters in this story is not that Musk was told off, but rather, that a Twitter hive mind is using the same intolerant cancellation tactics that they use to shut down debate on domestic political issues in order to shape U.S. policy toward Ukraine. They are doing so by demonizing dissent, defaming opponents, and closing off as ideologically unacceptable any path to peace or even deescalation.

The online mob has decided that any support for a negotiated settlement—even proposals that Zelensky himself appeared to support at the beginning of the war—is tantamount to taking Russia's side, denouncing voices of compromise and restraint as Putin apologists. This removes them from acceptable discourse and shrinks the Overton window to those advocating the total defeat of Russia and an end to Putin's regime—even if it risks WWIII.

We've seen this before: "Woke mobs" on Twitter routinely demonize and defame their political opponents, impugn the motives of anyone who questions their goals or tactics, and squelch dissent even in their own ranks by declaring the debate on certain topics over.

What makes the "I stand with Ukraine" version of the Twitter mob unique is that it brings together two forces that used to be sworn enemies of one another—the woke Left and the neoconservative Right. It turns out they share many of the same loathsome ideological and personality traits, and have a similar "slash and burn" approach to political engagement. It's a new political marriage.

...
https://www.newsweek.com/neocons-woke-left-are-joining-hands-leading-us-woke-war-iii-opinion-1748947

[Wind]

Some years ago I had a lot of respect for Elon, but in recent times he has proven himself to be quite a narcissistic clown who is just trying to get attention. He surely has plenty of attention and it probably has gotten into his head long ago just like it has with many celebs, in many ways he seems to be a not very pleasant person. Of course asking for peace is a good thing, but the way he went about it seemed to upset people. He did that same thing with Taiwan. I think he doesn't really understand either that Ukrainians want Russians out of their country and they don't really want any deals because Russians have been terrorising them too much and causing too much suffering and devastation. That was to be expected. How does Russia compensate for that? It takes ages for grievances like that to settle down.

I think Crimea is lost for good. If Russia is truly capable of launching a bigger attack later and can weaken Ukrainian forces more, then perhaps they will be forced to surrender or consider a deal. Yet reports are saying that Russian forces are only weakening more, all they have is numbers and lack of proper training and equipment due to corruption and negligence. I just don't see it happening now, because both sides want their own goals fulfilled. Putin wants his cake and wants to eat it too while Zelensky doesn't want anything to do with him. I couldn't really blame him for that, but the escalation towards a full-blown insane warfare does cause some real concerns for everyone.

[Fred Steeves]

Some years ago I had a lot of respect for Elon, but in recent times he has proven himself to be quite a narcissistic clown who is just trying to get attention. He surely has plenty of attention and it probably has gotten into his head long ago just like it has with many celebs, in many ways he seems to be a not very pleasant person.

Agreed.


Of course asking for peace is a good thing, but the way he went about it seemed to upset people.

I'm afraid that's where we differ. The mistake he made there, same as anyone else who wants to sue for peace, is do doing so in a time where someone must go. Even the guy supplying Ukraine with the means to communicate all this time, also the same guy who challenged Putin to a fight, gets told to fuck off for daring to propose an end to this.

"Sit down and shut up!" is what anyone of note will hear when speaking out during a "XXX must go" moment. Fortunately for Must he's self employed. Being cancelled for going the wrong way around a one way circle is not new:


Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnesota (1999-2003), was a hot media commodity as the Bush/Cheney administration was preparing for its invasion of Iraq in 2003. Ventura, a US Navy veteran who gained notoriety as a professional wrestler before he entered politics, was both popular and outspoken. MSNBC won the bidding war for his services in 2003, signing him to a lucrative three-year contract to create his own show – until, that is, the network learned he was against the Iraq war. Ventura’s show quickly went away, even as the network paid him for three years to do nothing.

I heard this revealing story from a new podcast, the TARFU Report, hosted by Matt Taibbi and Alex Pareene. By his own account, Jesse Ventura was bought off by the network, which back then was owned by General Electric, a major defense contractor that was due to make billions of dollars off the war.

Of course, Ventura was hardly the only war critic to run afoul of GE/NBC. Phil Donahue, the famous talk show host, saw his highly rated show cancelled when he gave dissenters and anti-war voices a fair hearing. Ashleigh Banfield, a reporter who covered the Iraq war, gave a speech in late April 2003 that criticized the antiseptic coverage of the war (extracts to follow below). For her perceptiveness and her honesty, she was reassigned and marginalized, demoted and silenced.

So much for freedom of speech, as well as the press.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2017/july/19/silencing-war-criticism-the-iraq-invasion-of-2003/

Hey, Saddam had to go. Fuck Jesse Ventura and Phil Donahue.

That's as true today as it was then.

[Wind]

I do get what you mean, Fred. The train to get Putin out ain't stopping anytime soon, if ever. He took the bait which was laid out for him and fell for it. If only he wouldn't have been greedy with Ukraine then he could have kept his corrupt dictatorship until his death.

If Elon really is going to acquire Twitter then I doubt he would be cancelled there. Not sure if he wants to get it anymore. I also heard Kanye buying that conservative social media platform called Parler. I have no idea what it is though, there seems to be so many of them these days. Twitter is the main channel and I know how mad people can get there with all the lynching mobs, I have never discussed things there. Only watch what's going on there as it has lots of info. It must have really hurt Trump to get cancelled from Twitter.

From what I've seen Jesse Ventura talk, he always seemed like a stand up guy to me. Sure he can be called a conspiracy kook in the mainstream media, but that's hardly a crime. At least he has brains to use, now that's the kind of candidate I would actually want to see in US politics.

I think the correct word to describe the war between Russia and Ukraine would be an impasse.

The snowball effect started when the escalations started long ago and it's not stopping yet.

[Fred Steeves]

So what's the difference between this brutal dictator who doesn't have to go?

2770


And this brutal dictator who did?

2771


That would be these guys, the Jake Tappers of the world tell us which is which. Three guesses who tells them which is which?

2772

[Fred Steeves]

Along those same lines. What is Ukraine's famed "Azov Battalion"?

This is who they were in 2018 according to "The Guardian":


Neo-Nazi groups involved in the fighting in Ukraine are actively seeking to recruit British far-right activists, a leading anti-fascist watchdog has warned.

At least two Britons are thought to have travelled to the war-torn eastern European country in recent months after encouragement by people linked to the Azov battalion, a notorious Ukrainian fascist militia, according to Hope Not Hate.

The warning comes only four days after the outgoing head of UK counter-terrorism policing, Mark Rowley, revealed that four far-right terror plots had been foiled in 2017 and extreme right groups were seeking to build international networks.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/02/neo-nazi-groups-recruit-britons-to-fight-in-ukraine





And who they are presently, according to "The Guardian". (Quite the rehabilitation)


In Ukraine, where the Azov fighters have become national heroes, news of the swap was met with delight.

“We are extremely proud of what our heroes have done. We are so proud of each of you,” the Ukrainian MP Kira Rudik tweeted.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/22/ukrainian-putin-ally-viktor-medvedchuk-exchanged-for-200-azov-battalion-fighters-zelenskiy-says

[Aianawa]

Very exciting to watch people awakening to mainstream corpserat media atm

[Aragorn]

Very exciting to watch people awakening to mainstream corpserat media atm

But are they? It's only a small minority that notices these things. The vast majority of the people have the attention span of a gnat and are still buying into the western narrative. Nobody notices the elephant in the room. :noidea:

[Aianawa]

I remember being sat down gently by my mayan calendar teacher and slowly over weeks n moons told how media works and why and at the same time cognitive dissonance workings ( 9/11 etc ) , it took 6 moons before i finalllly went if they did this n that, what the fuck else have or COIULD they have done and then, taaadaaaa be doing.

Living in two separate worlds began.

[Fred Steeves]

Straight from the horse's mouth. John Stockwell, former CIA telling it like it is back in the 80's. Imagine what his team could have done with the internet at their disposal to boot. They can, and still do quite easily, make us think whatever the hell they want us to think...

This whole 15 minutes is worth the listen, but if you're in a hurry just watch up to 5:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=NK1tfkESPVY

[modwiz]

Straight from the horse's mouth. John Stockwell, former CIA telling it like it is back in the 80's. Imagine what his team could have done with the internet at their disposal to boot. They can, and still do quite easily, make us think whatever the hell they want us to think...

This whole 15 minutes is worth the listen, but if you're in a hurry just watch up to 5:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=NK1tfkESPVY

Yes, the first five minutes is missing history. The manufactured "atrocities" in Cuba was pure gold.

[Fred Steeves]

Yes, the first five minutes is missing history. The manufactured "atrocities" in Cuba was pure gold.

Pure gold, yes it was, any non co-operative country is sure to be portrayed as some of the most dangerous and depraved people to have ever lived. Stockwell's time was the 70's and 80's, the patterns of propaganda he describes from first hand experience can still be witnessed to this very day, and it still works like a charm.

[Fred Steeves]

The things former CIA John Stockwell was saying back in the 80's could easily be brushed off as rhetoric, a disgruntled former employee, etc., except that it can all still be seen happening to this very day. Between 12-218 minutes in he describes how high level terrorists can come to be, which at the time admittedly boggled even his mind, and is still happening today.


From 28:45-29:30, it was considered outrageous at the time to put forth a plot to assassinate Gaddafi of Libya, but they got more sophisticated in time, and by 30 years later in 2011, the general public could be manipulated into echoing the righteous charge of "Gaddafi Must Go!". Well true to form go he did, and in reality it still was that assassination, but now with the blessings of Mr. and Mrs. America nodding "job well done"...

The sheer complexities of operations can be seen from 31:45-37:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5M3UR9Btvw&t=2720s

[Aragorn]

The things former CIA John Stockwell was saying back in the 80's could easily be brushed off as rhetoric, a disgruntled former employee, etc., except that it can all still be seen happening to this very day. Between 12-218 minutes in he describes how high level terrorists can come to be, which at the time admittedly boggled even his mind, and is still happening today.


From 28:45-29:30, it was considered outrageous at the time to put forth a plot to assassinate Gaddafi of Libya, but they got more sophisticated in time, and by 30 years later in 2011, the general public could be manipulated into echoing the righteous charge of "Gaddafi Must Go!". Well true to form go he did, and in reality it still was that assassination, but now with the blessings of Mr. and Mrs. America nodding "job well done"...

The sheer complexities of operations can be seen from 31:45-37:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5M3UR9Btvw&t=2720s



Two videos by Empire Files that I've posted earlier. The second one — about a CIA school where dictators and terrorists are being trained — is age-restricted and must be viewed at YouTube directly, but at least you'll have the link to it. (It was not age-restricted yet when I first posted it, but YouTube's policy has changed in the meantime... :rolleyes:)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgFVqxc0DKw



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGtegY0S3yo

[Wind]

US certainly has no moral high ground. What the politicians, goverments and the CIA has been doing is atrocious to put it mildly.

[Fred Steeves]

This is kind of interesting, a small glimpse into who wears "the bad guy" crown, and when. Remember when certain happenings on Ukraine were still allowed to be criticized?

This was United States mainstream media at the time, way way back in the memory hole just three years ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy910FG46C4

You know, it's a shame, it really is IMO. Whenever there's a war, battle moves by either side are bound to terrorize innocent civilians caught (literally) in the crosshairs; but that's where the other battle comes in, the battle for hearts and minds, the battle to sway public opinion into seeing "good vs. evil", as opposed to a battle between two competing interests.

In this particular case, it's a matter of now you see it now you don't.

[Aianawa]

Things changed fast this year though, remember ?, no bio labs USA in Ukraine, couple of moons later, Hunter Biden does not own any of the USA bio labs in Ukraine, then ?.

I have friends who berat me fo anything in their eyes is pro Russian, usualllly data n facts, only a couple left berating, why ?.

[Aragorn]

As a note for the readers who do not know this, Meta Platforms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_Platforms) is the company formerly known as Facebook.




Source: BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63731751)




Meta claims US military link to online propaganda campaign


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/8C69/production/_127754953_pentagongettyimages-dv1132024.jpg.webp



"Individuals associated with the US military" are linked to an online propaganda campaign, Meta's latest adversarial-threat report says (https://about.fb.com/news/2022/11/metas-adversarial-threat-report-q3-2022/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email).

The campaign was the first major covert pro-US propaganda operation taken down by a big-tech company, independent researchers said (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62674860) in August.

It supported the US and its allies, while opposing countries such as Russia, China and Iran.

But experts said it was largely ineffective.

On Facebook, 39 accounts, 16 pages, and two groups were removed, as well as 26 accounts on Instagram, for violating the platforms' policy against "coordinated inauthentic behaviour".

"This network originated in the United States," Meta wrote.

It focused on countries including Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Somalia, Syria, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Yemen - and mirrored tactics commonly used in propaganda campaigns against the West, including:


fake personas
artificially generated images
campaigns across multiple platforms



https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/12CFF/production/_126455077_doctoredpicofactress.jpg.webp
One fake account used a doctored picture (left) of actress Valeria Menendez (right).



The accounts targeting Iran had criticised Iranian authorities and their policies and posted about issues such as women's rights, researchers said.

Some of those supporting the US had posed as independent media outlets and some had tried to pass off content from legitimate outlets, such as BBC News Russian, as their own.

The operation ran across many internet services, including Twitter, YouTube, Telegram, VKontakte and Odnoklassniki, according to Meta.



'Public trust'

"Although the people behind this operation attempted to conceal their identities and coordination, our investigation found links to individuals associated with the US military," its report says.

But most of the posts had "little to no engagement" from real users.

US think tank the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab managing editor Andy Carvin told the BBC when the campaign was first revealed, it would be "ineffective and counterproductive" for democracies to undertake such campaigns, because it meant using "the very tactics used by your adversaries" and "further eroding public trust".

Meta's announcement confirms previous reporting (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/09/19/pentagon-psychological-operations-facebook-twitter/) by the Washington Post. Sources told the newspaper concern over the operation had made the Pentagon complete "a sweeping audit" of how the US military conducted clandestine information warfare.

The US Department of Defense told BBC News it was "aware of the report published by Meta".

"At this time, we do not have any further comments on the report or potential actions that may be taken by the department as a result of the report," it added.


Source: BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-63731751)

[Fred Steeves]

This has limited hangout (https://www.liquisearch.com/what_is_limited_hangout) written all over it.

(Chuckling) Or as the constable in "Casablanca" put it: "I'm shocked, shocked to find there's gambling going on here".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME



'Public trust'

"Although the people behind this operation attempted to conceal their identities and coordination, our investigation found links to individuals associated with the US military," its report says.

But most of the posts had "little to no engagement" from real users.

US think tank the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab managing editor Andy Carvin told the BBC when the campaign was first revealed, it would be "ineffective and counterproductive" for democracies to undertake such campaigns, because it meant using "the very tactics used by your adversaries" and "further eroding public trust".

To the very core of their essence, the BBC and "Atlantic Council" butter their bread by being eager participants in the spreading of mis, and disinformation. It's what they do. The red highlights above also serve to "inform" us that it doesn't work anyway.

Like hell it doesn't, it works with well oiled machine like efficiency.


Meta's announcement confirms previous reporting by the Washington Post. Sources told the newspaper concern over the operation had made the Pentagon complete "a sweeping audit" of how the US military conducted clandestine information warfare.

Ah, yes, and a sweeping audit has been conducted. No more of *that* monkey business around here. From now on it's "Straight shooting Sally" right down the line. No more gambling going on here... :eyebrows:

[Aragorn]

This has limited hangout (https://www.liquisearch.com/what_is_limited_hangout) written all over it.

To the very core of their essence, the BBC and "Atlantic Council" butter their bread by being eager participants in the spreading of mis, and disinformation. It's what they do. The red highlights above also serve to "inform" us that it doesn't work anyway.

Like hell it doesn't, it works with well oiled machine like efficiency.

Ah, yes, and a sweeping audit has been conducted. No more of *that* monkey business around here. From now on it's "Straight shooting Sally" right down the line. No more gambling going on here... :eyebrows:

I cannot disagree with any of that. The mainstream media have for a long time already been eager active participants in government propaganda, as well as that of certain pressure groups and lobbyists.

[Aianawa]

Found this interesting Fred > https://decodingsymbols.wordpress.com/

Was able to follow this well, they take you through the steps, says half his data share is explaining, explains well

[Fred Steeves]

Found this interesting Fred > https://decodingsymbols.wordpress.com/

Was able to follow this well, they take you through the steps, says half his data share is explaining, explains well

Really Vern? You're better than this.

While there certainly is something to do with the use of symbolism in society at large, and mass media serves its function well as the PR wing of empire, the whole Q thing only serves to discredit anyone seriously looking into such matters. It's the proverbial turd in the punch bowl that ruins it for everyone.

I do my own research, and am quite capable of coming to my own conclusions without the aid of this ridiculous super duper special decoder ring that may as well come from the bottom of a Cracker Jacks box. You should be as well.

As Sleepy Joe would say: "come on man".

[Aianawa]

Cmon indeed, where is the energy going regards todays world, with positivity, learning and i mean real learning, herstory included, who are the young ones leading our world noosphericalllly ?, poor buggers are on 8chan etc, decoding , digging, spreading, awaking, murdering woke etc etc, under 40 is the young ones lol, true or false Q takes up energy, lots, why ?, like many i have let Qetc go as their our i job whatever is done, move on, focus on oneself, ripple etc, yeah Q said that also but it is an old herstoical thing ye know, and decoding is still new though , the new is still learning, we are allways learning and wisdom morter till not needed, in other words the young ones in their midst have wisdom sharers n some are even here on TOT n PAPA etc sites n they learning how to use their throat chakras still, lol even after so much work n joy.

Cmon Fred, relax, let Qetc go, move on as we all decode ourselves n ripple.

Love your shares and apoligies if my words are of no use, ineffective or incorrect, and grab joy n be anyway.

Blessings

[Fred Steeves]

Love your shares and apoligies if my words are of no use, ineffective or incorrect, and grab joy n be anyway.

It's just that my threads are based in actual verifiable research Vern, the information is right there in literal black and white. Posting something Q related is like dropping a nice little shiny turd off on my doorstep. Sources putting out information that is still blatantly untrue 5 years in now, and requires specialized means of interpretation with highlights and arrows pointing this way and that, is not research.

You're a good guy Vern and it's nothing personal, you're perfectly free to post that kind of crap on your threads all over the forum and I don't interfere or say anything, I'd just appreciate it if you'd not do it on my threads.

[Fred Steeves]

You know what's scary? The throngs of people who view this embarrassingly blatant propaganda as grounded and balanced observations.

They see Cicero, I see "Tokyo Rose" and "Baghdad Bob".

And one more thing I'm noticing, much of the horrors they're describing can be laid square at the feet of the West, namely the US. Fascinating. Do people like this really believe what they're saying?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqNGPXggKTc&t=311s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgb77nMZDqg

[Diabolical Boids]

Found this interesting Fred > https://decodingsymbols.wordpress.com/

Was able to follow this well, they take you through the steps, says half his data share is explaining, explains well

Well actually that didn't clear anything up for me :cool::cool:

I don't understand. This bothered me enough that I didn't dismiss it but what bothers me is, why, who, and what is the point? Can you explain? Who is the target audience for these alleged communications and why? I get the author is targeting a specific audience to explain this too, but who is the actual targeted audience of the 'communications' in the first place? And symbols are like anything else, they often end up with only the meaning we give to them.

Things like this do exist, I know. It's a well-known device some serial murderers have used that detectives have had to decipher.

I can see how they would be used influence people towards creating a desired future reality but there's a more direct and effective way of doing so than expecting people to read articles and make connections between media outlets that may be separate by leagues and miles.

But I don't see the population at large being the target of these communications if they can be called that. The greater portion of population is illiterate even if they can read and don't know the meanings of ordinary words let alone assigning deep esoteric symbolism and foreshadowing words. Actions are often ritualistic and symbolic which is about as close as this is going to get to being....whatever it it's being. But these aren't actions, they are comparisons between disparate events and making a meaningful connection.

I don't think most people would consider this as a sign or symbolic of anything even if these communications happened to intersect for any given individual for examination. Or rather they wouldn't make the connection or why it's important they do so.

I'm not dismissing signs or symbolism because they are a big part of my life but are usually intended for me personally. I could share them with everyone and beat everyone over the are a sign they must follow or it has some meaning in their life. But they aren't. So I don't. I live in my own reality; it bears little resemblance to anyone else's reality like their reality looks nothing like mine and I see ploys imposed on us to create a shared reality or timeline for a specific agenda. Do these 'communications' have anything to do with that? If it is I could think of more effective means.

They vaguely remind me of anchor words for MKUltra operatives but those are delivered verbally not in written print.



Most of all if these are communications between the 1 percent, they don't have more sophisticated ways of doing so? We have satellites that can see a piece of lint on a bedside table but there's not a more sophisticated, technologically advanced way and discreet way for wealthy trillionaires and those controlling the worlds technology to communicate with each other?

Or are these communications supposed to be an an outlet for different divided squabbling factions of Cabal and Establishment to troll each other? But if a photo is posted to provoke someone it sorta loses its troll value when you have to explain it.

To troll the population at large even if they will never know they are being trolled?

[Aianawa]

Mmmmm however ones deciphers, allows thyself channelled, downloads God etc as such, allows n gives communication, is more than important , it is life as a whole realllly, forget that data above shared and previous words in this post you have past used, your left with God or zip n nada, so imo a wee bit important. So it bee choice.

Zeggyweighing to why such importance and coding bee wise of late, the positive hive mind is so so massively important becauseit is morphing, evolving , lol humming along, why and why bee's being used as the greater communicate atm ?, becides being noosphericalllly responsible, old kept bee hives were kept how so one can throw that symbol well known and they will get an earLIAR ( hearing and fences ) symbol, why kept in walls ? , back doors, we humans also have imo a back door and that be Beeing aroused atm.

Simply replying Fred, sorry so few facts.

Will scoot away now.

[Diabolical Boids]

Mmmmm however ones deciphers, allows thyself channelled, downloads God etc as such, allows n gives communication, is more than important , it is life as a whole realllly, forget that data above shared and previous words in this post you have past used, your left with God or zip n nada, so imo a wee bit important. So it bee choice.

Zeggyweighing to why such importance and coding bee wise of late, the positive hive mind is so so massively important becauseit is morphing, evolving , lol humming along, why and why bee's being used as the greater communicate atm ?, becides being noosphericalllly responsible, old kept bee hives were kept how so one can throw that symbol well known and they will get an earLIAR ( hearing and fences ) symbol, why kept in walls ? , back doors, we humans also have imo a back door and that be Beeing aroused atm.

Simply replying Fred, sorry so few facts.

Will scoot away now.

I didn't mean you had to scoot away, I'm just uncertain as to what these communications are supposed to do and to whom. Or its people grasping at straws.

This somewhat reminds me of the thread where Paul Pelosi mentioned.

Hammered is a term that has often been used to describe Nancy Pelosi over the years as she often appears drunk during interactions with the public and the press not to mention her behavior isn't what you call sober. Hammered is American slang for being sloppy drunk.

Now suddenly her husband Paul Pelosi was allegedly physically hammered by someone.

It's like there's a connection but you aren't sure what it is for or why.

Not sure if the two concepts are related or not.

[Aianawa]

Is ok Dia Bee, scooting due to Fred wishing verifiable facts n not woo woo, here in thread.

Everything is connected, Ancient Waitaha Lore we are all one meeting ourselves, splashing sacred water of, with, for, within Ourselves, Sharing our creation, our Youth, our Wisdom, may our vessalls ( wai = water , taha = vessel ) anchor, drift, align as desired by IO ( by God by Spirit ).

[Fred Steeves]

Is ok Dia Bee, scooting due to Fred wishing verifiable facts n not woo woo, here in thread.

Dang Vern. It's now personally verified that you know when what you're posting is completely off topic, but you just do it anyway because you feel like it.

Okay. Carry on I reckon. Do as thou wilt...

[Aragorn]

Is ok Dia Bee, scooting due to Fred wishing verifiable facts n not woo woo, here in thread.

Dang Vern. It's now personally verified that you know when what you're posting is completely off topic, but you just do it anyway because you feel like it.

Okay. Carry on I reckon. Do as thou wilt...

Hmm... I don't think Vern acknowledges that what he posts is off-topic. I think he's rather acknowledging that you see what he's doing as off-topic while he himself does not agree with your assessment of his contributions.

He does tend to make that mistake quite a bit... ;)




To Vern: Please don't further derail the thread. The premise of the thread as laid out by Fred is clear, and it's his thread, so he gets to decide what's on-topic here and what's not. :slap:

[Fred Steeves]

Hmm... I don't think Vern acknowledges that what he posts is off-topic. I think he's rather acknowledging that you see what he's doing as off-topic while he himself does not agree with your assessment of his contributions.

Then the equation changes, to that he simply has zero self awareness as to how he relates with the other kids on the playground.

It's one or the other.

[Aragorn]

Bringing this thread on-topic again, I would like to propose watching this excellent and very thought-provoking interview (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/14675-Empire-Files-Abby-Martin-Immortal-Technique-Civil-War) recently uploaded to YouTube by Abby Martin and Mike Prysner of Empire Files.

I posted the thread with the interview yesterday, but I don't think all of who visited the thread will have actually listened to the interview. Within the context of this discussion, I think they should revisit both that thread and their opinion. It's an hour well spent. ;)

[Fred Steeves]

Past contestants includes Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, Moammar Ghadaffi, and Bashar Al Assad - worthy all.

But today, we're fortunate enough to have 3 candidates in the running for the heavyweight title of worst human ever, all at the same time! Donald trump, Ron Desantis, and Vladimir Putin.

Is it possible that even Hitler himself, may not win "The Hitler Sweepstakes" with all of this extremely talented competition?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji-VspBqSDI

[Emil El Zapato]

Past contestants includes Fidel Castro, Saddam Hussein, Slobodan Milosevic, Moammar Ghadaffi, and Bashar Al Assad - worthy all.

But today, we're fortunate enough to have 3 candidates in the running for the heavyweight title of worst human ever, all at the same time! Donald trump, Ron Desantis, and Vladimir Putin.

Is it possible that even Hitler himself, may not win "The Hitler Sweepstakes" with all of this extremely talented competition?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji-VspBqSDI

that's funny but you nailed it.

The only thing he said that had a thread of credibility was, of course, Hillary Clinton. And 60% of the population agreed with her.

[Fred Steeves]

Opinion: Putin must go — Russians deserve a future free from Putin’s repression
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/opinion-putin-must-go-russians-deserve-a-future-free-from-putin-s-repression/ar-BB1iPoDF?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=555f7e9cb5b940f8b23a78e9fbb55a7b&ei=47

When I first started this thread, it never occurred to me that the majority opinion here might well be in agreement with the US/NATO obsession of replacing foreign leaders with more... "suitable" leaders for the western pallet to tolerate.

Well, at least for sure this one has to go. Then negotiations can commence. :lol:

[Emil El Zapato]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/opinion-putin-must-go-russians-deserve-a-future-free-from-putin-s-repression/ar-BB1iPoDF?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=555f7e9cb5b940f8b23a78e9fbb55a7b&ei=47

When I first started this thread, it never occurred to me that the majority opinion here might well be in agreement with the US/NATO obsession of replacing foreign leaders with more... "suitable" leaders for the western pallet to tolerate.

Well, at least for sure this one has to go. Then negotiations can commence. :lol:

Disregarding any political leanings of the news outlet, things are never the way you see them Fred. My personal opinion is that if Putin continues along the vein of misanthropy yes, he should go, any such human should 'go'.