The Beast of Gévaudan

[Wind]

I couldn't find a thread about this one so I hope it's not posted before.

Apparently the movie Brotherhood of the Wolf (https://youtu.be/D7DTv2uBA7I) is based on this story.


The Beast of Gévaudan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_G%C3%A9vaudan) (French: La Bête du Gévaudan, Occitan: La Bèstia de Gavaudan) is the historical name associated with a man-eating animal or animals which terrorised the former province of Gévaudan (consisting of the modern-day département of Lozère and part of Haute-Loire), in the Margeride Mountains of south-central France between 1764 and 1767. The attacks, which covered an area spanning 90 by 80 kilometres (56 by 50 mi), were said to have been committed by one or more beasts with formidable teeth and immense tails, according to contemporary eyewitnesses. Most descriptions from the period identify the beast as a wolf, dog, or wolf-dog hybrid.

Victims were often killed by having their throats torn out. The Kingdom of France used a considerable amount of money and manpower to hunt the animals responsible, including the resources of several nobles, soldiers, royal huntsmen, and civilians. The number of victims differs according to the source. A 1987 study estimated there had been 610 attacks, resulting in 500 deaths and 49 injuries; 98 of the victims killed were partly eaten. Other sources claim the animal or animals killed between 60 and 100 adults and children and injured more than 30. The beast was reported killed several times before the attacks finally stopped.

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https://www.history.com/.image/t_share/MTcyODQ5MDY5ODQ3MzU3MTE0/beast-of-gevaudan-gettyimages-113408479.jpg

[Aragorn]

I couldn't find a thread about this one so I hope it's not posted before.

Apparently the movie Brotherhood of the Wolf (https://youtu.be/D7DTv2uBA7I) is based on this story.

I've seen that movie ─ twice, I think. It's very good, although the beast is not at the center of the story. In the movie, the beast is also never seen in its natural form, because it has been fitted with a kind of harness with metal spikes, and it is explained at the end of the movie that it was an animal ─ the last of its kind, although it is never stated what animal it must have been ─ that was imported from Africa and tortured to such a degree that it became insane and murderous.

As shown on screen in the movie, the silhouette of the beast resembles that of a hyena, but it's much bigger than that ─ about the size of a lion.

[Wind]

I need to see that movie. Do you think there actually was some supernatural, malevolent force behind the animal?

Could even a huge hyena actually cause that much damage and be so... Intelligent?

[Aragorn]

I need to see that movie. Do you think there actually was some supernatural, malevolent force behind the animal?

No, I don't. It was probably just a pack of wolves.


Could even a huge hyena actually cause that much damage and be so... Intelligent?

Hyenas are fairly intelligent, and they are definitely pack hunters, but they don't live in France, and they're also not that big. A wolf is much bigger than that. ;)

[Wind]

No, I don't. It was probably just a pack of wolves.

Abnormally big wolf-dogs which had acquired the taste only for human flesh and were aware of the tactics which were used against them. Also normal bullets hardly worked, the guy that finally killed the (last) beast even used a silver bullet to kill it, of course it might have just been his magical thinking and that's why he used the silver on the bullet.

[Malisa]

Awesome,

The The Ghost and The Darkness comes to mind:
https://www.livescience.com/58735-man-eating-lions-analyzed.html#:~:text=Their%20names%20were%20%22Th e%20Ghost,135%2C%20according%20to%20different%20ac counts.

In a separate note, i have personally seen very unexplainable behavior like that, through a dog that used to be part of our family, here's how

When i was around 7, we got gifted a puppy, which was very wild and had a hard time becoming part of our family, he was just not able to fit with humans at all, until around one year or so later, when he softened with us, but only us, "the pack". He was still extremely violent and reacted badly to most anyone that came close

Around when he was 3 years old, he started doing very odd things, like he was learning human behavior, he had already started before but it became very obvious at that time. He would not eat anything that touched the ground, or anything that did not came directly from our hands and he had watched us put it on his plate ourselves, like if you would put something like a chicken breast on his plate, but he did not see any one of us put it there, he would not eat it, instead he would flip the plate and throw it away. Another thing, he would always ask for water by carrying his bowl to whoever was near, and then place it on the ground, then touch your leg and with his nose touch the bowl, so we knew he wanted water, he would never, ever drink water for anywhere else unless he saw us drinking it first, like from a river, for example

He would not sleep on the floor, if his mat wasn't around, he would sit on his legs and attempt to remain awake for as long as possible, or jump or someone's legs and sleep there, but he never/ever allowed his head to touch the ground

But when we realized he was a crazy monster was after that, this is the real WTF moment

He started going out for hours and sometimes a full day, he was a free range dog, no education and he could go anywhere at anytime, so he just started walking around and returning several hours later, or next day

then we found out that he had started killing small animals from around the city, like rodents, rabbits, cats and birds and such, problem is, he would not eat them or anything, he would kill them, then bring the body back home and open a shallow grave on our backyard and bury the bodies there. We didn't even notice first, but one day we noticed there were several places at the same corner where it seem the dirt had been removed. He tried to prevent us from opening the graves to see what was there, barking and running around and threatening to bite back when we approached. But once we found out, he still continued to do it, so eventually more graves were found every other week or so, and new animals kept being buried on our backyard non stop

Talk about a psycho murderer who collects the bodies on his own backyard lol, he wasn't kill in for food, or defense, he was killing for sport, simple as that, and he collected the bodies

I've never seen anything like that again. He died around 10 years ago or so, he tried to kill a rat that a neighbor had poisoned and died along with the rat :)

That's what i've seen, so yeah i think there are animals that somehow have this kind of awaraness and also carry some kind of monsterous evilness inside, just like those lions or those animals in France, killing "just for sport"

:blink:

[Aragorn]

Abnormally big wolf-dogs which had acquired the taste only for human flesh and were aware of the tactics which were used against them. Also normal bullets hardly worked, the guy that finally killed the (last) beast even used a silver bullet to kill it, of course it might have just been his magical thinking and that's why he used the silver on the bullet.

Well, there is one obvious thing that is being overlooked here, which is that wolves normally avoid humans. That is not to say that a pack of wolves would never attack a human, but a solitary wolf normally wouldn't go near a human, let alone attack one, unless the wolf feels that the human poses a threat, either to itself or to its offspring.

But even in packs, wolves tend to avoid going anywhere near humans. Yet, just as what the movie Jaws did with regard to sharks, the fairy tales we tell our children about evil wolves ─ e.g. Little Red Riding Hood ─ have imparted a subconscious fear and hatred for these animals, turning them into villains.

Another aspect is that back in those days, rabies was a very common illness among both humans and animals, and it is quite possible that a wolf infected with rabies would have infected the other animals in its pack, and that as such, that particular pack had become extraordinarily aggressive. And as for being aware of the tactics used against them, wolves are very intelligent.

Lastly, on account of that silver bullet, first of all, that's the mythological way to kill a werewolf, and werewolves themselves were probably also only humans who had been infected with rabies. Secondly, in those days, it was easier to claim that you shot the animal and that it didn't exhibit any wounds than to admit that you completely missed the target because you were shaking with fear. ;)

[Wind]

Talk about a psycho murderer who collects the bodies on his own backyard lol, he wasn't kill in for food, or defense, he was killing for sport, simple as that, and he collected the bodies

I've never seen anything like that again. He died around 10 years ago or so, he tried to kill a rat that a neighbor had poisoned and died along with the rat :)

That's what i've seen, so yeah i think there are animals that somehow have this kind of awaraness and also carry some kind of monsterous evilness inside, just like those lions or those animals in France, killing "just for sport".

That's interesting and kinda crazy, I've only heard that cats like to play with their prey like that. That's almost a human-like (demonic) quality. It's interesting that some animals would develop such features, not sure what's going on there on the metaphysical level. For me as a metaphysician there's always some kind of metaphysical origin behind all physical manifestations. Matter is just the grossest form of energy, everything is a manifestation of the spirit.

To be honest I used to find even some cats kinda scary when I was younger due to their sharp fangs and claws. I think cats have more human-like personalities. It's funny to think that my small dog would have a wolf as it's genetic ancestor (https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1116a2d7e78e37fc5de5a937f96611b8-c), it's like the furthest thing away from that.

https://www.history.com/news/beast-gevaudan-france-theories

"The Beast was consistently described by eyewitnesses as something other than a typical wolf. It was as large as a calf or sometimes a horse. Its coat was reddish gray with a long, strong panther-like tail. The head and legs were short-haired and the color of a deer. It had a black stripe on its back and “talons” on its feet. Many drawings of the Beast at the time endow it with lupine characteristics.

Witnesses described the Beast as an ambush hunter which stalked its prey and seized it by the throat. The wounds found on the bodies were typically to the head and limbs with the remains of 16 victims reportedly decapitated. The creature prowled in the evenings and in the mornings."

The description kinda fits this creature, except that this species has been extinct only for 26 million years.

https://www.history.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTcyODQ5MDY5ODQ3NDg4MzAz/beast-of-gevaudan-prehistoric-gettyimages-143064651.webp

[Malisa]

One theory i had about my dog's behavior was this, it was gifted to us when he was around 1 and half months old, he was not able to grow along his mother, i think the mother died soon after giving birth, so he was being feed with milk bottles or something like that and his only interaction was with humans most of his life, so maybe, he picked up all kinds of things from humans right from the beginning, since he did not had any other being around that would be a "parent" figure? And also we are hunters, that dog was around us right from the beginning, and it was like a pet dog, we would constantly take him along when camping and going to hunt and such, i think he may have picked a lot of our stuff from there, and he followed through on his own way

What made me think this is also the following, he would like to take baths with us, and he selected a towel no one else was allowed to touch, so after every bath, he would go roll on the towel until he was dry, he would never lie on the ground or shake like other dogs, he acted in such ways. that's why i called him "he" because when i think about it, i could not think of him like "it" as in other animals, he had a particular personality but i think it's mostly because he thought of himself as another human.. "that's all he knew"

I think dogs and cats can pick up very odd things from humans, and even possible weird illnesses or behaviors, like we were hunters, my dog started also hunting for sport, would the same had happened if he was part of a more regular family? I'm not really sure, but i tend to think it would not

Maybe this beast from France was raised in a similar way as my dog, then lost their family and somehow ended doing this, after spending a lot of time alone and becoming more wild?


That's interesting and kinda crazy, I've only heard that cats like to play with their prey like that. That's almost a human-like (demonic) quality. It's interesting that some animals would develop such features, not sure what's going on there on the metaphysical level. For me as a metaphysician there's always some kind of metaphysical origin behind all physical manifestations. Matter is just the grossest form of energy, everything is a manifestation of the spirit.

To be honest I used to find even some cats kinda scary when I was younger due to their sharp fangs and claws. I think cats have more human-like personalities. It's funny to think that my small dog would have a wolf as it's genetic ancestor (https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-1116a2d7e78e37fc5de5a937f96611b8-c), it's like the furthest thing away from that.

https://www.history.com/news/beast-gevaudan-france-theories

"The Beast was consistently described by eyewitnesses as something other than a typical wolf. It was as large as a calf or sometimes a horse. Its coat was reddish gray with a long, strong panther-like tail. The head and legs were short-haired and the color of a deer. It had a black stripe on its back and “talons” on its feet. Many drawings of the Beast at the time endow it with lupine characteristics.

Witnesses described the Beast as an ambush hunter which stalked its prey and seized it by the throat. The wounds found on the bodies were typically to the head and limbs with the remains of 16 victims reportedly decapitated. The creature prowled in the evenings and in the mornings."

The description kinda fits this creature, except that this species has been extinct only for 26 million years.

https://www.history.com/.image/c_limit%2Ccs_srgb%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_700/MTcyODQ5MDY5ODQ3NDg4MzAz/beast-of-gevaudan-prehistoric-gettyimages-143064651.webp

[Wind]

There are theories that someone could have been "training" the beast as their pet and then unleashed it for whatever reason. One suspect was the hunter who killed it, not sure if that makes any sense though. All that for some glory? Man is the worst beast to roam the Earth though, no mistake about that.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/da/be/75dabe0d085216bee8e03a07d330f67e.jpg

[Malisa]

Maybe the guy realized he had created a monster and had to put a stop on it

When i was a kid, around 9 years old or so, i made friends with a Lynx, she would come and sit close to me and i would give her food and stuff, sometimes play a bit around her, but one day and mistakenly thought she was like a normal cat and teased her too much, she felt danger and acted like a wild animal would, by ripping pieces of my leg of in an incredible speed lol, i yelled and tried to run but she took me down so easily, then my family came running and shot her dead right there on the stop, i still have the smell of blood on the air and can hear the sounds of her crying. It's the worst thing i have ever done, out of ignorance and such. I live with the weight in my soul of her death, it's a very heavy weight :(

If this guy somehow created that beast, then realized it would/was acting like that, maybe he had to make a choice between the beast's life and a human life, just like my family did back then, even knowing well the beast is only acting out of instinct and doesn't know better and someone else is to blame for what's going on

:unsure:

There are theories that someone could have been "training" the beast as their pet and then unleashed it for whatever reason. One suspect was the hunter who killed it, not sure if that makes any sense though. All that for some glory? Man is the worst beast to roam the Earth though, no mistake about that.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/75/da/be/75dabe0d085216bee8e03a07d330f67e.jpg

[Wind]

That certainly is possible.

[Dreamtimer]

Wow, Malisa. I've heard some interesting dog stories but never one like that. That was truly a unique canine.

Growing up we always used the gender pronoun with dogs. But my friend Kelly would refer to her dogs as 'it'. And she spoiled them rotten. They'd beg and beg and she'd give them treats and they were so fat!

The largest wild animals I've been close to near my home would be coyotes. A couple of my brother-in-laws see bears by their homes.

I've known folks from rural parts of the south where there are packs of feral dogs. That is something I would not want to run into.

[Emil El Zapato]

I've seen that movie ─ twice, I think. It's very good, although the beast is not at the center of the story. In the movie, the beast is also never seen in its natural form, because it has been fitted with a kind of harness with metal spikes, and it is explained at the end of the movie that it was an animal ─ the last of its kind, although it is never stated what animal it must have been ─ that was imported from Africa and tortured to such a degree that it became insane and murderous.

As shown on screen in the movie, the silhouette of the beast resembles that of a hyena, but it's much bigger than that ─ about the size of a lion.

I was convinced by people that I loaned the movie or I read it somewhere that it was a Lion ... But that really wasn't my conclusion. I felt that it was a 'supernatural' creature. Something just ab normal.

[Aragorn]

The largest wild animals I've been close to near my home would be coyotes.

The largest wild animals I've ever met were humans, but I've already come across a couple of tame ones too. :p :ha:

[Emil El Zapato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feh8Eqh4nWU

When I put this 'theme' on my work desktop people immediately got the impression that I was weird ... I was asked about it.

[Aragorn]

I've seen that movie ─ twice, I think. It's very good, although the beast is not at the center of the story. In the movie, the beast is also never seen in its natural form, because it has been fitted with a kind of harness with metal spikes, and it is explained at the end of the movie that it was an animal ─ the last of its kind, although it is never stated what animal it must have been ─ that was imported from Africa and tortured to such a degree that it became insane and murderous.

As shown on screen in the movie, the silhouette of the beast resembles that of a hyena, but it's much bigger than that ─ about the size of a lion.

I was convinced by people that I loaned the movie or I read it somewhere that it was a Lion ... But that really wasn't my conclusion. I felt that it was a 'supernatural' creature. Something just ab normal.

Well, when I first saw "the beast", I too thought that it could have been a lion, but then figured it must have been something else, and indeed, there was something "not normal" about its appearance.

In reality of course ─ and by this I mean "for the shooting of the film" ─ there was no animal at all playing the role of "the beast". The narration at the end speaks of an unnamed animal ─ the last of its kind ─ from Africa, and given the behavior of "the beast" on screen, all of it must have been done by way of animatronics and puppeteers. :hmm:

[Emil El Zapato]

Dire wolf? They went extinct about 13,000 years ago.

[Emil El Zapato]

What's weird about this ... One of the guys that remarked on its weirdness was a guy that said those very words when i mentioned a book where a twin had an embedded twin in her and liked to have sex with another sister. (Dean Koontz) Not coincidentally the same guy that keeps asking me to have sex with his wife. A hella nice guy though... really. :bolt:

I think this is it, my memory is not what it used to be, I remembered a number of graves in the scene and it was green and foggy. At least that's the way I remember it ... :)


https://img.wallpapic.com/i8937-741-335/thumb/brotherhood-of-the-wolf-fog-cross-black-and-white-wallpaper.jpg

[Malisa]

The largest wild animals I've ever met were humans, but I've already come across a couple of tame ones too. :p :ha:

Lmao, but yeah, totally


Wow, Malisa. I've heard some interesting dog stories but never one like that. That was truly a unique canine.

Growing up we always used the gender pronoun with dogs. But my friend Kelly would refer to her dogs as 'it'. And she spoiled them rotten. They'd beg and beg and she'd give them treats and they were so fat!

The largest wild animals I've been close to near my home would be coyotes. A couple of my brother-in-laws see bears by their homes.

I've known folks from rural parts of the south where there are packs of feral dogs. That is something I would not want to run into.

I truly believe "we" as in my family created that monster, it had our own ways as his own. He simply did not know better than to imitate his family or pack. And i do believe that the monster in the op may have actually gone through the same at some point, then deviating to a wilder animal once he was alone and surviving on instinct alone

Mix human behavior, with human wild hunting instincts, and with feral nature and anima survival instincts out of control without the human enforcing some kind of restrictions, and what do you get? That's what i think happened

[Wind]

As they say, there are really no bad dogs. There is only bad training and people are responsible for that.

Also it is said that often dogs can look like their owners, but I don't know if there's any truth to that. :)

[Malisa]

As they say, there are really no bad dogs. There is only bad training and people are responsible for that.

Also it is said that often dogs can look like their owners, but I don't know if there's any truth to that. :)

I believe you are very correct in both

[Aragorn]

As they say, there are really no bad dogs. There is only bad training and people are responsible for that.

You do not believe that dogs ─ or for that matter, any other kind of animal ─ could have a brain wired for psychopathy, just as in humans? :hmm:

[Malisa]

You do not believe that dogs ─ or for that matter, any other kind of animal ─ could have a brain wired for psychopathy, just as in humans? :hmm:

If i may, i would like to say this

It is possible i guess, that animals could have some issues like that

But i also firmly believe, that if they pick up most of the human behavior, like violence, anger among other things, they can become human like in the same way, just like kids do when their parents are dangerous raging monsters

[Wind]

You do not believe that dogs ─ or for that matter, any other kind of animal ─ could have a brain wired for psychopathy, just as in humans? :hmm:

No, I don't. It all has to do with consciousness and animal consciousness is not capable of that.

[Aragorn]

As they say, there are really no bad dogs. There is only bad training and people are responsible for that.

You do not believe that dogs ─ or for that matter, any other kind of animal ─ could have a brain wired for psychopathy, just as in humans? :hmm:

If i may, i would like to say this

It is possible i guess, that animals could have some issues like that

But i also firmly believe, that if they pick up most of the human behavior, like violence, anger among other things, they can become human like in the same way, just like kids do when their parents are dangerous raging monsters

Of course. There is a difference between a psychopath and a sociopath. A psychopath is born that way, while a sociopath may have an innate tendency toward antisocial behavior, but is mostly created by his or her environment.

I grew up with both kinds of people. Sociopaths can eventually come to feel remorse over their actions ─ especially with proper counseling ─ but psychopaths are cold-blooded and incapable of remorse, compassion or empathy. And it is my belief that both types of antisocial beings can exist among animals and humans alike. After all, humans, too, are animals. ;)





No, I don't. It all has to do with consciousness and animal consciousness is not capable of that.

Um, no, Brother. Psychopathy is a different neurological wiring. A psychopath's brain doesn't have the structures required for ethics, compassion, remorse, love or empathy.

[Wind]

Um, no, Brother. Psychopathy is a different neurological wiring. A psychopath's brain doesn't have the structures required for ethics, compassion, remorse, love or empathy.

Maybe I should explain myself more then, but that would be quite a wide topic though about good and evil.

What you are describing is the physical condition of a brain for the individual consciousness or soul which inhabits that brain. A soul that is in service to self or should I say is "evil", is going to be born as a psychopath. Also probably for karmic reasons also sociopaths are being "made", nothing happens without reason. There are good and bad people on this planet and everything in between, there is nature and nurture. These neurological conditions just explain the manifestations of the spirit of the physical level. For example, I can't say that every person with something like Asperger's would be a starseed or an indigo child, but on the soul level there is still something different going on and it manifests that way on the physical. Humans just tend to give a label to everything in order to make sense of it, mental illness, personality disorders... Sickness. You name it.

There would always have to be investigation into each case to know how it actually is. However, with some conditions you can know what is it about like with Cluster B personality disorders. Those people are demonically influenced people with no sense or self, or they rather have a false self and they're probably demons themselves too in human form and I say none of that lightly. People don't want to believe such things as it makes life more complicated, to know that there is deeper meaning to all of this. Some people don't believe that there are actually angels here on human form and... Yet there are. This might be quite off-topic though.

[Aragorn]

Maybe I should explain myself more then, but that would be quite a wide topic though about good and evil.

What you are describing is the physical condition of a brain for the individual consciousness or soul which inhabits that brain. A soul that is in service to self or should I say is "evil", is going to be born as a psychopath. Also probably for karmic reasons also sociopaths are being "made", nothing happens without reason. There are good and bad people on this planet and everything in between, there is nature and nurture. These neurological conditions just explain the manifestations of the spirit of the physical level. For example, I can't say that every person with something like Asperger's would be a starseed or an indigo child, but on the soul level there is still something different going on and it manifests that way on the physical. Humans just tend to give a label to everything in order to make sense of it, mental illness, personality disorders... Sickness. You name it.

There would always have to be investagation into each case to know how it actually is. However, with some conditions you can know what is it about like with Cluster B personality disorders. Those people are demonically influenced people with no sense or self, or they rather have a false self they're probably demons themselves too in human form and I say none of that lightly. Some people don't believe that there are actually angels here on human form and... Yet there are. This might be quite off-topic though.

Well, then the question is... Is the brain an expression of the soul, or is the soul the product of the animation of organic matter by pure consciousness?

By the latter, I am referring to the theory that all mortal life would start out with a blank slate soul, and that the soul as the identity of any given individual would be the (potentially persistent) product of the merger between (an individuated amount of) pure consciousness with a physical body. The opposite ─ which is your approach, and which is something that at this point I am not so certain of anymore ─ is that the soul already has an identity from before it enters the body.

Both are only theories, and both are viable. But I doubt we'll ever know for as long as we're mortal. :hmm:

[Wind]

By the latter, I am referring to the theory that all mortal life would start out with a blank slate soul, and that the soul as the identity of any given individual would be the (potentially persistent) product of the merger between (an individuated amount of) pure consciousness with a physical body. The opposite ─ which is your approach, and which is something that at this point I am not so certain of anymore ─ is that the soul already has an identity from before it enters the body.

Both are only theories, and both are viable. But I doubt we'll ever know for as long as we're mortal. :hmm:

The question who are you can get deep for sure. Are you your body, your personality? No, they're just like clothes for your soul and that's what you really are. Your personality is molded by the experiences of the current life and by the physical conditions that you might have, or course your true self also can shine through all of that and often it does. The soul records all the experiences it has had and that way it evolves and grows. All souls have been blank once, but there can be billions of years (not that time would really matter) of development between some souls. Hence young or old souls. Although a soul can gain a lot of wisdom even in just a short period of time although usually it's not the case.

Morality, ethics... They don't just come out of nowhere and they're not human concepts. There is absolute good and there's absolute evil too. The Creator to my belief and experience represents absolute good and Love. Most people don't really even understand what real love means, we have just a diminished idea about it. Now imagine a being incapable of feeling love, what is that?

[Dreamtimer]

I feel like there is consciousness outside of being human, or another creature. I think that we do choose our lives and the challenges which come along with it. I think that our souls enter our bodies at birth.

I think the identity of our souls is larger than any individual lifetime.

The experience is the purpose. We cannot understand this existence without being part of it. Physical experience would be vastly, mind-bogglingly different from spiritual experience.

The trials of life can be awful. Why choose such things?

I think it's simply to understand.

Along the lines of what Wind has said. We are all God/the universe understanding and experiencing itself. We are all the story.


The Beast is part of the mystery which still abounds, even here in the physical.

And maybe also a manifestation of what we do, much like Malisa's dog.

[Wind]

Well put, sister. Life is a beautiful mystery to be experienced, but unfortunately the awful things are a part of it too.

That's just the way it is.

[Aragorn]

The Creator to my belief and experience represents absolute good and Love.

I beg to differ on that. There cannot be good without evil, and this in and of itself is a Yin/Yang duality concept. The prime creator consciousness is neither good nor evil ─ they are merely two sides to the same coin, and both sides are valid as learning tools. By consequence, if you believe that everything in existence came into being because of a conscious act ─ with consciousness itself being eternal and timeless ─ then evil must have been created by the very same consciousness that created good. The concept that evil would be the product of some lesser divine entity that was envious of the bigger entity is entirely the product of the Abrahamic religions ─ a purported angel named Lucifer in post-King-James Catholicism, and a Djinni named Iblis in Islam.

And in that regard, I would like to point at the Book of Job. In said book, Job is put through the most horrible suffering, over and over again, but not by the Satan ─ it was Yahweh who did that, so as to disprove the Satan's claim that people only worshiped Yahweh because he was being good to them. And in said book, "the Satan" is not a name but a title ─ it literally means "the adversary" ─ and he was allegedly a being that resided in Heaven, not in Hell. In other words, he was some sort of accuser in a court, with Yahweh presiding as the judge.

Furthermore, the Book of Job is an Old Testament book, and the Old Testament holds that angels don't have a personality or soul of their own, but that they are in fact avatars for Yahweh, to signify to the humans who perceived them which specific personality aspect of Yahweh they were encountering. For instance, Gabriel was the messenger, Raphael was the healer, and Azrael ─ not mentioned by name in the Bible, but known by name in other Jewish scriptures ─ was the Angel of Death who killed the firstborns in Egypt.

The introduction of an evil angel named Lucifer was merely an artifact of the mistranslation of the Bible from Latin and Greek to English under King James. The original letter from Isaiah did not address an angel but the king of Babylon, a mortal man, whom Isiah described in a very sarcastic and over-the-top, allegoric way as having been an "angel" ─ literally meaning "an emissary", and thus a disciple of the early Roman Catholic Church ─ who had "fallen". It was only through John Milton's poem "Paradise Lost" ─ which describes the fall of Adam and Eve and their eviction from the Garden of Eden ─ that Lucifer became described as the first and once-highest of all angels, who had become envious of Yahweh and who wanted humans to worship him instead of worshiping Yahweh. None of that stuff even existed in the canonical Bible before that time.

The same concept ─ i.e. that the Creator uses both good and evil as it sees fit ─ can also be found in Zoroastrianism. Ahriman is simply Zoroaster in his evil guise. Or Krishna in the Hindu scriptures ─ "Now I have become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

[Wind]

I beg to differ on that. There cannot be good without evil, and this in and of itself is a Yin/Yang duality concept. The prime creator consciousness is neither good nor evil ─ they are merely two sides to the same coin, and both sides are valid as learning tools. By consequence, if you believe that everything in existence came into being because of a conscious act ─ with consciousness itself being eternal and timeless ─ then evil must have been created by the very same consciousness that created good. The concept that evil would be the product of some lesser divine entity that was envious of the bigger entity is entirely the product of the Abrahamic religions ─ a purported angel named Lucifer in post-King-James Catholicism, and a Djinni named Iblis in Islam.

I would agree and disagree. It is true that opposites exist and God is beyond good and evil, but it's not just that simple. Evil is the absence of good and it is rebellion against God, it is not that God chose to create that, but evil was born out of arrogance and free will. It is diversion from the truth, love and God.

This plane of existence is the battleground for good and evil. There are forces of good and then there are forces of those who oppose goodness and love, God. Their end goal is the enslavement and dominance of "others", because they see themselves superior to the Creator. How can that be when God is all that there is?

"If a thing is free to be good it is also free to be bad. And free will is what has made evil possible. Why, then, did God give them free will? Because free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. A world of automata--of creatures that worked like machines--would hardly be worth creating. The happiness which God designs for His higher creatures is the happiness of being freely, voluntarily united to Him and to each other in an ecstasy of love and delight compared with which the most rapturous love between a man and a woman on this earth is mere milk and water. And for that they must be free."

~ C.S. Lewis

The Law of One material has explained many things rather well, to me it has been quite valuable knowledge.


The Law of One (https://www.susanwalterart.com/post/2017/08/18/a-synopsis-of-the-ra-material-the-law-of-one-book-series) is one of twelve universal principles according to a basic principle that all is One, that all things that exist are ultimately the same essence within many forms and configurations.

The book series articulates a non-dualistic philosophy according to which all things both spring from and are one with the source of the universe, termed The One Infinite Creator.

Within The Law of One, The Creator is not described as an external entity, as Earthly religious texts present in order for men to understand. Instead, The Creator is rather an all-pervasive intelligent energy, that is both within everything that exists and without, thus the indivisible oneness that the philosophy describes. Underlying the perception of separation, utilized for learning, is an indivisible oneness.

The Law of One states that this universe, one of many, was created by the One Infinite Creator—out of itself—by distorting its energy into the parts of existence called distortions. The process occurred one distortion at a time, in a specific order.

The first distortion created by the Creator is called Free Will.

The second is Love.

And the third is Light.

All other substance and form come from an interaction of these three distortions. Akin to a hologram or a fractal, each part of the creation is also the whole.

As Ra uses the word, the distortion of Light can be taken to mean: energy/matter and knowledge/wisdom.

Ra describes each galaxy as a creation of an intelligence called a Logos. The Logos creates many sub-Logoi, star systems (ie: stars and planets). One sub-Logos would be our Sun, for example. Another would be our planet Earth, another planet Venus, Jupiter and so on and so forth. The sub-Logoi, in turn, create sub-sub-Logoi. Human beings are an example of sub-sub-Logoi. Each Logos, sub-Logos, and sub-sub-Logos is a microcosm of the Creator. The Logos created seven levels of progression for spiritual evolution and Ra has called each of these levels a density.

Even more importantly, this cosmology is not simply in the realm of lofty speculation – for all intents and purposes, Ra was systematically teaching Dr. Elkins about a whole new form of physics, a new form of understanding the way that the Universe functions, rooted in compassion, harmony, and wisdom.

Moral choices are discussed through the concept of polarity. Ra explains that there are two polarities: service to self, and service to others. These two polarities approximately relate to the everyday concepts known as light and dark, evil and good, or selfishness and altruism.

Service to Others is described in terms of an energy center configuration where the green-ray center radiates out toward other beings. This results in compassion, love feelings, and acts of service toward others.