Cancel Culture

[Catsquotl]

This rather new addition to the world stage where people are cancelled because of their ideas, the way they use language or things they said and did in the past seems to be gaining traction in the most (un)likely places.

Freshly retired from another forum after being banned on the last 4 of the 7 or so threads I tried to participate in I must admit my p.o.v is a tad biased.
That said I do wonder how we can turn the tides on this. I don't mind strong discussion. However these days it seems one has to weigh every word typed or spoken on-line or face group backlash because of words and intentions being misconstrued.

Back in the day(gosh I feel old now) you could sometimes get to the heart of the matter through discussion and a bit of strong words both ways.
These days as soon as you start to question ones intention sensitivity seems to take precedence over common sense.

Best not to say anything and keep the crowds happy. I am seriously contemplating dissolving critical thinking and going with whatever the powers that are are telling me to do.
Be a good and safe little slave until i'm sucked dry and given permission to die already.

With Love
Eelco

[Emil El Zapato]

bummer Cats ... What was that William Wallace said, You can take my life, but you can never take my FREEDOM!!

[Aianawa]

Often the things we are not allowed to talk about ARE the things we need to talk about, terrorist riots in USAian cities was not allowed to be talked about in a certain manner or one was a propagandaist - fake news - lying - left or rite divider etc etc, still the tptW divide through left n rite n dem n rep n black n white n traitor n patriot etc and lately people are waking up to this, except in small little wee cases, there is less and less division and the tptW are annoyed atm n movie improves more n more.

Cheers Catz as this is a conversation needed imo.

[Wind]

Let's cancel the cancel culture, as it's quite cancelous for all.

[Aianawa]

Gosh wee bit extreme Wind, maybe listen but not implement or when cancelling seen arising like cancelling black or white people, we sorta intervene gently, then harshly if needed, cancelling not helpful but many will bully, fight, kill etc to cancell.

Actually when we see bullying and fighting and killing, it is usually to cancel something.

[donk]

Owners of forums or platforms or whatever are not “cancel culturing” you, such a stupid discussion. It’s ownership society, they get to reject your “free speech” on their platform. It’s not cancel culture, it’s victim culture. R’s are best at it, but D’s always have and will continue to enable this bullshit.


Give a REAL example of being “canceled”

[Catsquotl]

Give a REAL example of being “canceled”

I never said platform owners cancelled me.
I cancelled myself from there to be honest.

So you are not seeing the trend that sensitive subjects or even mundane stuff that has been talked about openly for years suddenly require careful consideration.
Before you are no longer interacted with on the bases of your arguments, but on the perception of the projected BS from the other participants?

But for grander example the dutch Sinterklaas celebration is pretty much changed beyond recognition because some people felt that his helpers were blackfaced white folks.
Granted they were, but the base for the dress up had none of the intentions black faced white folk over in the america's had.

However the debate got pushed and not many dared to be politically incorrect and a lot really a lot of dutch people have started to let go of sinterklaas and started to go mainstream x-mas celebrating..

waiting on the day in the near future I will be denied access to some event or even my job if I'm not vaccinated soon.

[Emil El Zapato]

Cancel misinformation ... For all our sake ...
Cancel truth ... that is an insidious evil ...

If anyone needs a tip on which is which, I'll be happy to oblige ...

[Aianawa]

Owners of forums or platforms or whatever are not “cancel culturing” you, such a stupid discussion. It’s ownership society, they get to reject your “free speech” on their platform. It’s not cancel culture, it’s victim culture. R’s are best at it, but D’s always have and will continue to enable this bullshit.


Give a REAL example of being “canceled”

You sound offended Donk and appear to have engaged in the dem - rep , left - rite straight away ?.

[Catsquotl]

Cancel misinformation ... For all our sake ...
Cancel truth ... that is an insidious evil ...

If anyone needs a tip on which is which, I'll be happy to oblige ...

Can illusions be cancelled?

[Catsquotl]

For an entirely different toned discussion on cancel culture examples lookie here (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?111532-Cancel-Culture--Examples-)

[Aianawa]

Of course they can, learning to brainwash oneself is very important and far more fun than another brainwashing one plus usually creative juices get flowing also.

[Dreamtimer]

Folks in my country have been 'cancelling' others since its inception. Boycotting, blackballing, whisper campaigns, it's all part of the same dynamic.

In my opinion, the so-called cancel culture is another name for the same thing which has been happening since....a very long time.

In religions (and cults), if you go against the grain you may well be disowned.

By your very own family.

That's kinda the ultimate cancellation.


And it's also nothing at all new.

Sadly, I don't think there's anything unique going on. Just another hurdle that we, as people, need to pass over.

Simple, but not easy. Like the Golden Rule. (not the one about who has the money)

[Aianawa]

WOW three of us posted at the same time of 2.10

[Malisa]

This rather new addition to the world stage where people are cancelled because of their ideas, the way they use language or things they said and did in the past seems to be gaining traction in the most (un)likely places.


This may be surprising, but the countries where "cancel culture" doesn't exist, are the ones most western countries call "authoritarian" lol

I believe, and this just my personal belief, that when you said "the world stage" you actually just meant, "the western world"

Because for example, some couple months or so ago, someone tried to introduce the concept to Russia, at a high level, while trying to "cancel" someone there, let's just say that his "cancelling, got cancelled" :D

As you most likely know, in Russia, we don't suffer foolishness such as this cancel culture thing that has invaded, in fact, measures are taken to prevent it, right from grade school

Another one that is completely rejected is the "participation trophy" thing, everyone always wins, and second place is as good as first place, no such thing here, that ideology is disturbing...

-

Masha

[Catsquotl]

This may be surprising, but the countries where "cancel culture" doesn't exist, are the ones most western countries call "authoritarian" lol
I believe, and this just my personal belief, that when you said "the world stage" you actually just meant, "the western world"


I think your belief is correct.

[Catsquotl]

As you most likely know, in Russia, we don't suffer foolishness such as this cancel culture thing that has invaded, in fact, measures are taken to prevent it, right from grade school

Another one that is completely rejected is the "participation trophy" thing, everyone always wins, and second place is as good as first place, no such thing here, that ideology is disturbing...

-

Masha

Would you say those authoritarian countries have other ways of canceling people who share a different belief system?
Either way an open discussion is out of the question.

[Aianawa]

This may be surprising, but the countries where "cancel culture" doesn't exist, are the ones most western countries call "authoritarian" lol

I believe, and this just my personal belief, that when you said "the world stage" you actually just meant, "the western world"

Because for example, some couple months or so ago, someone tried to introduce the concept to Russia, at a high level, while trying to "cancel" someone there, let's just say that his "cancelling, got cancelled" :D

As you most likely know, in Russia, we don't suffer foolishness such as this cancel culture thing that has invaded, in fact, measures are taken to prevent it, right from grade school

Another one that is completely rejected is the "participation trophy" thing, everyone always wins, and second place is as good as first place, no such thing here, that ideology is disturbing...

-

Masha

I see benefits in the particapation trophy with good balance and thought used, do most Russians know who created the Russian revolution ?, know what i am saying ?.

[Malisa]

Would you say those authoritarian countries have other ways of canceling people who share a different belief system?
Either way an open discussion is out of the question.

What is considered authoritarian very much depends on what side is judging

Real authoritarian systems dont have platforms where people can speak up. Or for example women not allowed to vote or drive, or go to school. And you either believe on the official gobernment and official religion or not, you can chose to not believe and skeap up, but of course there will be consequences after

Free speech "you are free to say whatever you want to say" be ready to handle the consequences of your words


I see benefits in the particapation trophy with good balance and thought used, do most Russians know who created the Russian revolution ?, know what i am saying ?.

We do, know, a very basic principle is to not forget the past, that's why

Most people in the west know about "the red army" but, have they heard at all about "the white army?"

Russian history is very complex, tons of shades, so to speak

Very few times in history, really the people have taken control, its always an exchange of power between the people at the very top

You should look who was behind the white army, and why they were winning so much, they ended up losing... Lol

[Malisa]

To put it simply, had the white army won that war, we would be hearing daily on the American western media about the evils of capitalism.. lmao!

Such is the nature of the game

[Aianawa]

Ring cedars book series gave me a wee glance within Russia's past that revolted and enjoyed me.

[Dreamtimer]

I never participated in the participation trophy thing. I don't know that it's an ideology. It certainly was a bad idea. I think we're moving away from it.

Cultures try to wipe out whole other cultures. Like when the soldiers shot up the ancient statues. Leaders cancel the very existence of former leaders. Like the Pharaohs.

Whatever you call it, the idea of getting rid of, or silencing a group of people is nothing new.

[Aianawa]

Imo that it is changing is what is new, re-writing history usually has the future generations finding the truths sooner or later, look at the Tartarian empire for eggysample or the Survivors thread of Elen's.

[Emil El Zapato]

Can illusions be cancelled?

Illusions, perhaps not ... Delusions, decidedly yes.

Perceptions are a mental trap, the only channel to escape is through shrewd insight, shrewd insight is a hard-earned skill.

[Emil El Zapato]

The thing about trophy's and Russia viewed together generated a thought.

Community or Individual, which should take precedence?

In community oriented cultures to distinguish oneself is to be allowed a semblance of self-determination and its byproduct of individual pride. No easy trophy's here.
In the individual oriented cultures all there is self-determination and its byproduct of dog-eat-dog, the rat race, etc. The losers become dejected, lack self-pride and become a drag on society ... that sucks!

From a higher moral, ethical, and humanitarian perspective the competitive spirit should be moderated so people are not left bloodied in those mean streets.

[Catsquotl]

From a higher moral, ethical, and humanitarian perspective the competitive spirit should be moderated so people are not left bloodied in those mean streets.

Which then of course raises the question who exactly should do the moderating?
The government officials who have a mandate on the use of violence? I.E. the Police?

[Emil El Zapato]

the people, of course. If people could regulate themselves, it would be amazing to see how well society functions. And before you ask ... :) ... The more power a citizen has the more responsible and self-moderating they should be. As the old saying goes ... "Doo doo rolls downhill"

[Catsquotl]

the people, of course. If people could regulate themselves, it would be amazing to see how well society functions. And before you ask ... :) ... The more power a citizen has the more responsible and self-moderating they should be. As the old saying goes ... "Doo doo rolls downhill"

Thank you.. That is music to me ears...
ABCofAnarchism.pdf (https://libcom.org/files/AlexanderBerkman-ABCofAnarchism.pdf)

[Emil El Zapato]

interesting, I skimmed it. When the subject of anarchism is broached my position is that no one can claim to be an anarchist, one has to live as an anarchist. It just doesn't feel right to claim because in the act of claiming it delineates one anarchist from another ... I feel that is not in the nature of anarchy. :)

But I haven't been in the zone of thinking about anarchy for awhile ... :)

[Catsquotl]

interesting, I skimmed it. When the subject of anarchism is broached my position is that no one can claim to be an anarchist, one has to live as an anarchist. It just doesn't feel right to claim because in the act of claiming it delineates one anarchist from another ... I feel that is not in the nature of anarchy. :)

But I haven't been in the zone of thinking about anarchy for awhile ... :)

lol.
Yeah.
The great misconception of anarchism.. Nu rules...
But people seem to forget that living without Rulers, which is what anarchism means.. Rules are sort of needed. Now how to go about at setting them is the great dilemma.
The above mentions book is one way of getting there... but then again...

R7qT-C-0ajI

[Octopus Garden]

Cancel culture is neurotic, stupid--for people who don't have enough real world problems and constantly on the lookout for some kind of minor offense. There's this other social phenomenon I find equally disturbing though, and that is conflating SJW's, Cancel Culture with movements like the BLM movement. As if being sensitive to and irate about cops killing blacks in the U.S, for no good reason, belongs under the same umbrella.

[Catsquotl]

Cancel culture is neurotic, stupid--for people who don't have enough real world problems and constantly on the lookout for some kind of minor offense. There's this other social phenomenon I find equally disturbing though, and that is conflating SJW's, Cancel Culture with movements like the BLM movement. As if being sensitive to and irate about cops killing blacks in the U.S, for no good reason, belongs under the same umbrella.

Agreed,
although there seems to be a difference between the BLM sentiments as picked up by the general population and the people who receive the funding for the so called BLM movement and their agenda's.

[Octopus Garden]

Cancel cultured my second repeat post!

[Octopus Garden]

Agreed,
although there seems to be a difference between the BLM sentiments as picked up by the general population and the people who receive the funding for the so called BLM movement and their agenda's.

The problem is very few of the knuckleheads I have communicated with about this issue, can make the distinction between BLM leadership and their following. How about the outraged, "Well, democrats are funding them!!!" So what? The repuglicans are likely funding the KKK. It's so obnoxious--this whole shit show.

[Aianawa]

Is cancel culture still taking a foothold in USA, will trot round the western ( maybe more ) world if so or maybe not as USAian behaviour has not been the best to stepfoot follow of late.

[Malisa]

the people, of course. If people could regulate themselves, it would be amazing to see how well society functions. And before you ask ... :) ... The more power a citizen has the more responsible and self-moderating they should be. As the old saying goes ... "Doo doo rolls downhill"

And that's how the Soviets took control...

[Dreamtimer]

I wondered whether Budweiser was trying to 'cancel' something when they didn't run commercials during the Super Bowl. Turns out they're focusing efforts, and cash, into fighting Covid and helping to get out vaccines.

Back in the day, Prince (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/7418-The-One-Truth-s-Lounge-Thread?p=842035423&viewfull=1#post842035423)performed in the rain. He didn't care about his hair, he cared about the music.

[Dreamtimer]

I'll check out the book. I've never been against the idea of anarchy, personally. I have a friend who had an anarchist book store in Baltimore for several years. He's a cool dude, smart and funny. And he never tried to boss me around or act like his ideas were the right ones.

It was nice to hang out with him.

My personal qualm is like what I have with libertarians. People say they're libertarians, and then they just vote with the mainstream Republicans. They support plenty of things which interfere in folks' lives, just in the ways that they want to interfere.

When people say they are anarchists I wonder what they think it means. Because, beyond my friend, most people I've met don't really seem to know what anarchy actually is.

Sort of like how people don't really know what antifa is.

[Catsquotl]

Sort of like how people don't really know what antifa is.

What would you say is antifa?


The problem is very few of the knuckleheads I have communicated with about this issue, can make the distinction between BLM leadership and their following. How about the outraged, "Well, democrats are funding them!!!" So what? The repuglicans are likely funding the KKK. It's so obnoxious--this whole shit show.

Well most of the first steps in critical thinking is learning to follow the money.
Granted, stopping at the level of politics is hardly following a trail.

So after making the distinction between leadership and following.
How to proceed to acknowledge the followings outrage and putting a break on the leadership's agenda?

[Dreamtimer]

I don't know yet. But yesterday I learned something new (or forgotten, I didn't really pay attention in history).

When Mussolini attacked Ethiopia, the League of Nations did not intervene. The news reels of the military action played in US theaters. Black Americans were quite angry and formed an organization to fight fascism. An 'anti-fascist' organization.

A light bulb went on in my head. So much more makes sense now. If it was an organization started by black folks...

No wonder it gets pulled out as soon as a movement springs up to help empower black people.

So now I wonder how often the term has been used in the past surrounding activities of groups like the Black Panthers.

I will be looking into this further.

[Dreamtimer]

Well, Cats, you spurred me to do some more looking into antifa. I don't really want to start a thread. Perhaps I'll find one to post on.

It certainly looks like antifa wants to cancel fascism. It's pretty hard to argue with cancelling fascism.


But of course, there's much more than that.

I'm already seeing a lot of the phrase, 'radical left'.

Honestly, that still amuses me. Yes, it does have some history in the US. And it's not a major driving force in America. We have many more threats coming from the right, because as a nation, we are much more to the right.

As I suspected, issues of race and black power are closely intertwined. And this is how it goes in America. Straw men and scapegoats. Blacks are asking to have their lives seen as something that matters. Time to pull out the trigger words.

Antifa! Antifa! Radical left! Radical left!

And as more folks on the right engage in terror, as in Michigan and our nation's Capitol, look for the rhetoric to expand.

It will be left-wing terrorists in every other report. From the not-really-so-liberal media, of course.

[Aianawa]

Aha so the antifa and BLM riots and violence was fake news DT, was interesting that there was more white than black people within the terrorist antifa movement.

[Catsquotl]

Aha so the antifa and BLM riots and violence was fake news DT, was interesting that there was more white than black people within the terrorist antifa movement.

Don't keep us in suspense. What do you know about the origins of antifa and their agenda?

[Aianawa]

Look who founder/s was, read wiki bio.

[donk]

You sound offended Donk and appear to have engaged in the dem - rep , left - rite straight away ?.

Dem-rep sure offends the fuck out of me, slightly less than you do. No one should get to broadcast lies and propaganda without any consequences. Most “cancel culture” is just disingenuous arguments, asshole victims whining when there’s consequences to them being an asshole.

We should be empathetic enough to remove black face from our traditions when non-whites find it offensive. You’re an asshole if you have problem with that. If your “tradition” is that important to you, do it where no one who’d be offended can see it. Nothing can be “canceled” if it is true and valid and harmless and of value.


Aha so the antifa and BLM riots and violence was fake news DT, was interesting that there was more white than black people within the terrorist antifa movement.

Christ, you should be a Republican lawyer, clearly your calling.

People with the ability to, have “canceled” what they wanted for time immemorial, “cancel culture” is just moron right wingers twisting the concept to weaponize it against the actual victims of it—making themselves seem the victim in the process—all the while not calling out those with the power actually “doing it”.

[Dreamtimer]

The phrase "BLM riots" is a catch-phrase/talking point/gaslighting term. The protests were not riots. The looting was largely opportunists. The people who were in crowds inciting violence were not doing so on behalf of BLM.

That's where people are buying into bullshit.

Antifa is not BLM. BLM is not Antifa.

Conflation is a tool of propaganda and authoritarians.

[Aragorn]

Conflation is a tool of propaganda and authoritarians.

... And a festering dish gluttonously devoured by the unwashed masses... :facepalm:

[Dreamtimer]

Who might want to cause looting and violence during protests?

One answer is people who want to undermine the protest's message/cause. Several groups may wish that.

Another answer is people who want to hopefully further anarchy or chaos. Those won't necessarily be the same people as the former.

Another answer is people who want or need a scapegoat to distract from their own violence.

These are all likely involved in the violence being blamed on BLM. BLM does not benefit from looting or violence and they don't want it. It's about stopping violence and killing, especially by authorities.

Something this community should support, eh? Unjustified killing by authorities?

[Catsquotl]

We should be empathetic enough to remove black face from our traditions when non-whites find it offensive. You’re an asshole if you have problem with that. If your “tradition” is that important to you, do it where no one who’d be offended can see it. Nothing can be “canceled” if it is true and valid and harmless and of value.


I am an asshole, no problem.
You're last statement is wrong though.
The world right now is full of examples of cancelled somethings that were once true and harmless and of value.

Not every soot smeared face resembling work inside chimneys is a black faced person trying to ridicule the black community.
Assuming that that is the case and therefore taking offense is as shortsighted as racism itself..

ah wel..

[Emil El Zapato]

Hi Cats,

I suspect that anyone that actually does that is as rare as the leftist conspiracist calling to take over the Capitol building to save the good ol' USofA

[Catsquotl]

Hi Cats,

I suspect that anyone that actually does that is as rare as the leftist conspiracist calling to take over the Capitol building to save the good ol' USofA

does what?

[Emil El Zapato]

confuse a chimney sweep for a blackfaced anything.

[Catsquotl]

blackpetehistory (https://blackpetehistory.weebly.com/blackface.html)

[Aianawa]

Dem-rep sure offends the fuck out of me, slightly less than you do. No one should get to broadcast lies and propaganda without any consequences. Most “cancel culture” is just disingenuous arguments, asshole victims whining when there’s consequences to them being an asshole.

We should be empathetic enough to remove black face from our traditions when non-whites find it offensive. You’re an asshole if you have problem with that. If your “tradition” is that important to you, do it where no one who’d be offended can see it. Nothing can be “canceled” if it is true and valid and harmless and of value.



Christ, you should be a Republican lawyer, clearly your calling.

People with the ability to, have “canceled” what they wanted for time immemorial, “cancel culture” is just moron right wingers twisting the concept to weaponize it against the actual victims of it—making themselves seem the victim in the process—all the while not calling out those with the power actually “doing it”.

Oh dear, no desire for you to be offended by defending myself Donk and thankyou as i was shown that cancel culture was all left but you have shown me that it is all right. I will move along dear Donk.


The phrase "BLM riots" is a catch-phrase/talking point/gaslighting term. The protests were not riots. The looting was largely opportunists. The people who were in crowds inciting violence were not doing so on behalf of BLM.

That's where people are buying into bullshit.

Antifa is not BLM. BLM is not Antifa.

Conflation is a tool of propaganda and authoritarians.

Okay thankyou DT, i see you now desire to separate blm and antifa from each other, shows your now researching imo n sorry if that is an incorrect statement

[Aianawa]

Who might want to cause looting and violence during protests?

One answer is people who want to undermine the protest's message/cause. Several groups may wish that.

Another answer is people who want to hopefully further anarchy or chaos. Those won't necessarily be the same people as the former.

Another answer is people who want or need a scapegoat to distract from their own violence.

These are all likely involved in the violence being blamed on BLM. BLM does not benefit from looting or violence and they don't want it. It's about stopping violence and killing, especially by authorities.

Something this community should support, eh? Unjustified killing by authorities?

You be saying me and our community needs to bend the knee DT ?, TOTally agree with your statement of unjustified killing by your authorities = author of rites

[Malisa]

Who might want to cause looting and violence during protests?

One answer is people who want to undermine the protest's message/cause. Several groups may wish that.


When i was living on Mexico City several years ago, there were tons of protests because of the new government, there were violent groups involved, burning things and causing tons of damage, then videos surfaced that showed these groups were preparing before hand, in side streets, and then once they went into action, the cops would immediately attack the actual real peaceful protesters.

The way it was that people identified them was, the fake violent protesters had a black band around their wrist, so that cops would see them and avoid hitting them while taking care of the real protesters

[Aianawa]

Mmmm yes that has been documented world wide since the sixties

[Emil El Zapato]

blackpetehistory (https://blackpetehistory.weebly.com/blackface.html)

:) Interesting, but the logic is a mite tortured.

[Dreamtimer]

First things first, I've never seen you as an asshole, Cats.

Second, please stop trying to tell me what I want, Aianawa. That's a child's tactic. That's what kids do when they want a cookie. It's called manipulation.

When I wish to give my opinion or desires I will make it clear and you will know. There will be no doubt or grey area.

It happens here too, Malisa.

And more and more information is coming out about coordination with certain persons of authority during the insurgence at the Capitol. It's disgusting.

[Catsquotl]

:) Interesting, but the logic is a mite tortured.

Yeah. You know it's more about the whole discussion that took place and made way for a cancelling of black Pete to disappear from what was essentially a children's holliday.

As a child even until my teens I had never considered black Pete as disrespectful to people of color.

Not until I noticed some people took offence.
I am still of kind that taking offence where nine is intended is harmful. As it is/was in this whole discussion.

[donk]

What would you say is antifa?



Well most of the first steps in critical thinking is learning to follow the money.
Granted, stopping at the level of politics is hardly following a trail.

So after making the distinction between leadership and following.
How to proceed to acknowledge the followings outrage and putting a break on the leadership's agenda?

This is more my point, than nitpicking a “sacred” tradition. Since the beginning of power, those ruling could “cancel” (or promote) whatever, it’s not some new phenomenon.

US govt has hardly been “canceling” shit, they can’t seem to cancel the lies that our most recent election was somehow different than any other we have had.

They haven’t removed the politicians that are openly opposing the democracy that they were supposedly elected to protect and administrate.

The two monopolies on “political thought” continues to exist, making governing at the federal level into a Harlem Globetrotters production, making us a juvenile bipolar country where the loud party glories in “winning” and “owning their enemy”.

The only canceling I’ve seen the gov not stop is removing statues of literal traitor enemies, which I guess the right embraces as that’s what they have become. DJT was pushing “patriotic” curriculum in school, basically cancelling teaching kids about anything wrong the GREAT USA, cancel slavery and genocide...that was the only gov “canceling” that was concerning to me. They sure ain’t canceling corporate profits or pipelines or ability to destroy whatever in endless consumption orgy that is that great anti-socialist view where people are demonized for wanting the government to HELP people, rather than just make money and jobs.

I see very little new “canceling” coming from govt entities. The people whining about it most are neoliberal capitalists, decrying that their pet shitty idea is dropped by a corporation. It’s so fucking dumb. This country is so twisted in double speak and cognitive dissonance, there’s no chance for debate. Most Americans these days just twist reality into what they feel it should be. Bitching about cancel culture is the manifestation of when these children get one of their toys taken away. They wouldn’t whine about the corp’s rights to stop making something, but god forbid they choose to drop something because it is in their financial interest not to piss off a certain demographic

So dumb

[donk]

Is this an example:

https://apple.news/AepeOApfwS-qToVr87pVwkQ

[Dreamtimer]

So what does antifa want to cancel? They say it's fascism. Is that good? On its face, sure. In terms of execution.....not so sure.

Why fight fascism? Here's a snippet of a conversation between a father and son before the son went to Charlottesville for the unite the right rally.


The North Dakota newspaper The Forum published a letter from Pearce Tefft in which he recalled a chilling exchange about free speech with his son, Peter, shortly before Peter headed to the rally in Charlottesville. “The thing about us fascists is, it’s not that we don’t believe in freedom of speech,” the younger Tefft reportedly said to his father. “You can say whatever you want. We’ll just throw you in an oven.”

I can't even imagine my own son uttering such a thing.



[In] Germany...fascists were able to take over governments through legal rather than revolutionary means—much as the alt-right frames its activities as a defense of free speech, Fascists were able to spread their ideology under the aegis of liberal tolerance.

Liberal tolerance. Wow. That's just like when some folks said that all the Qanon stuff should just be out in the open for all to see. Liberal tolerance, folks.

Sure. Kind of the penultimate example of turning something on its head. "We tolerate fascism and white supremacy!!!" "We tolerate dangerous and unfounded accusations of pedophilia!" Yay freedom!


In his Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/) piece, Beinart notes, “When fascism withered after World War II, antifa did too.”

I'm reading about the incidents in the Northwest now. The antifa folks were focussing on the right-wing and nazis. They were not duscccussing BLM. They weren't interested in BLM.

They did explicitly say they wish to cancel fascism. So what's the problem?

Methods is the first answer. Violence and destruction don't really work. (In my opinion. I didn't beat my son. My husband doesn't beat me.)

But what does work for the right is to capitalize with propaganda. Turn the public eye away from them and onto.....BLM!

Of course. And so they did.



But even on the militant left, the movement didn’t occupy the spotlight. To most left-wing activists during the Clinton, Bush, and Obama years, deregulated global capitalism seemed like a greater threat than fascism.


Trump has changed that. For antifa, the result has been explosive growth. According to NYC Antifa, the group’s Twitter following nearly quadrupled in the first three weeks of January alone. (By summer, it exceeded 15,000.)


This is from 2017. It makes sense that Trump would spend so much time talking about antifa. He wants credit. It's huge. The biggest ever. Everybody knows it. You know it. You know it. You know it.

Lightbulb time.




Antifascists call such actions defensive. Hate speech against vulnerable minorities, they argue, leads to violence against vulnerable minorities. But Trump supporters and white nationalists see antifa’s attacks as an assault on their right to freely assemble, which they in turn seek to reassert. The result is a level of sustained political street warfare not seen in the U.S. since the 1960s. A few weeks after the attacks in San Jose, for instance, a white-supremacist leader announced that he would host a march in Sacramento to protest the attacks at Trump rallies. Anti-Fascist Action Sacramento called for a counterdemonstration; in the end, at least 10 people were stabbed.

The left and the right are fighting each other and both are using violence. And it seems to have ticked up quite a bit under Trump. He likes this. Just like he liked the Capitol mob. He loved it, in fact.

And still, it's not BLM. BLM is not doing the organizing. BLM is not the group who went to the unite the right rallies.

BLM wants police to stop shooting women while they sleep at home. BLM wants police to stop shooting men who are on their own property with their own guns protecting their own selves according to our Constitution.

I never rejoiced in Spencer or Yiannopoulos getting attacked. I thought it was stupid and wrong and just gave them more attention. Which it did.

Didn't know this:


Portland offers perhaps the clearest glimpse of where all of this can lead. The Pacific Northwest has long attracted white supremacists, who have seen it as a haven from America’s multiracial East and South. In 1857, Oregon (then a federal territory) banned African Americans from living there. By the 1920s, it boasted the highest Ku Klux Klan membership rate of any state.



Now, in the Trump era, Portland has become a bastion of antifascist militancy. Masked protesters smashed store windows during multiday demonstrations following Trump’s election.


Ah, territory battle as well. Interesting.


What’s eroding in Portland is the quality Max Weber considered essential to a functioning state: a monopoly on legitimate violence. As members of a largely anarchist movement, antifascists don’t want the government to stop white supremacists from gathering. They want to do so themselves, rendering the government impotent. With help from other left-wing activists, they’re already having some success at disrupting government. Demonstrators have interrupted so many city-council meetings that in February, the council met behind locked doors.

Hmmmmm. Disrupting government. Isn't that poking the Deep State in the eye? Oh wait, I keep forgetting. The fascists actually like government and just want to take it over. Gotta remember that!


Antifa’s perceived legitimacy is inversely correlated with the government’s. Which is why, in the Trump era, the movement is growing like never before.

Soooo....

Is it waning now? Is antifa now attacking the Biden government? Is it retreating?

Seems like since the right wing groups are still talking March 4 and martial law and taking over the government and bringing Trump back...antifa still has current raison-d'etre.

Should be interesting. And I would not at all be surprised if the Biden Administration arrests antifa members. Not at all.


There's a lot more yet to be learned about antifa, and about how it's being used by others for the sake of their own power. :hmm::tea::meditating::pc::ok::flame::peep:

[Dreamtimer]

Donk, you are a breath of fresh air. I really appreciate how you call a rose a rose. And stupidity, stupidity. It is what is is.

I'm ridiculously optimistic, I guess. I still think we can somehow unwind ourselves from this mess. I look to the children who are so resourceful, so open-minded and unlimited. They can see the forest.

I'm surely not down with the Supremely Stupid Sedition. No Thank You.

If I were to cancel something it would be the hubris that leads people to decide they can define things on their own and then foist that upon the rest of us because they need to dominate.

I suppose it would be the underlying fear which motivates that would be cancelled...

[Catsquotl]

Is this an example:

https://apple.news/AepeOApfwS-qToVr87pVwkQ

This would be my prized example.
Evergreen state college
p5Wny9TstEM

[Emil El Zapato]

Reminds of this guy from Mexico that I know who told me that one of the entrance questions is: "Do you support former President Cardenas?" If you said yes you were denied entrance to the university and were accepted into the university system at the "peon school". I was scared! True Story!


This would be my prized example.
Evergreen state college
p5Wny9TstEM

He could have gone someplace else, I'm sure there are thousands of similar universities in the U.S.

The thing that is obvious is that counter approaches are always problematic if not well thought out ... 1st: Since early on in the movement to raise the 'perceived value' of the "others", they have been at each others throat. Yeah, really ignorant and no real understanding of how to make things succeed. I don't think this example would be one of the successful ones.

Unless they included the disclaimer: We will show what it is like!

[Catsquotl]

Reminds of this guy from Mexico that I know who told me that one of the entrance questions is: "Do you support former President Cardenas?" If you said yes you were denied entrance to the university and were accepted into the university system at the "peon school". I was scared! True Story!



He could have gone someplace else, I'm sure there are thousands of similar universities in the U.S.

The thing that is obvious is that counter approaches are always problematic if not well thought out ... 1st: Since early on in the movement to raise the 'perceived value' of the "others", they have been at each others throat. Yeah, really ignorant and no real understanding of how to make things succeed. I don't think this example would be one of the successful ones.

Unless they included the disclaimer: We will show what it is like!

Of course he could, however after years of working at someplace happily and then be forced to apologize for your part in the suppression of the black community because you are white or leave is a rather harsh pill to swallow for some. It's not as if he had difficulties with the college before. So this did come somewhat out of the blue for the guy.

[Emil El Zapato]

well, in truth, I think there is likely only one university like that in the United States ... that was my real point ... :)

[Catsquotl]

well, in truth, I think there is likely only one university like that in the United States ... that was my real point ... :)

I see...
I'm terrible at charades

[Aianawa]

Antifa is a Trump thing or being used by Trump DT ?.

[Emil El Zapato]

I see...
I'm terrible at charades

Antennae need a little tuning? I love reading the messages on the wind, never tried charades because it seems hopelessly childish.

[donk]

Truth and justice are what is canceled in America, sad fucking day

[Emil El Zapato]

yeah, it is sad Donk ... cosmic justice always prevails ...

[Aragorn]

Truth and justice are what is canceled in America, sad fucking day

I read about it in the news here tonight, but I can't say that I wasn't expecting this outcome already. The moral corruption sits way too deep. :unsure:

[Aianawa]

Mmmm am i missing something news wise ?.

[Aianawa]

Oh crikey, yes just got back from town and yip very annoying news indeed, gosh we all wanted the varying truths out to look over, get better clarity etc, very sad indeed.

[Catsquotl]

Truth and justice are what is canceled in America, sad fucking day

Wait, is this about Trump not getting impeached?
Don't like the guy, but the impeachment was a farce to begin with me thinks.

If that trial is the measure of truth and justice we do have a long long way to go.
Now that in my book is what is really sad.

[Emil El Zapato]

Sure, if the Americans could do it once, and the French thought it was a good idea, as well as Russia, China, and numerous lesser players, why shouldn't the Americans do it again. I'll tell you why not, because 75% of the American 'people' thought that a sitting American President fomenting insurrection was beyond a farce, in the 1800's that action would have demanded a public execution. The days of seeing through the facade of manipulation and sophistry are long gone. Superficial plausibility is the newest and greatest tool employed to sidestep the bounds of any American institution that supports human decency. It's a world tailor-made for the psychopath. If I'd only known.

[Emil El Zapato]

I don't get the sense that you are an American Cats, from where do you hail? :)

[Aragorn]

I don't get the sense that you are an American Cats, from where do you hail? :)

He's in the Netherlands. ;)

[Emil El Zapato]

ahh, :) As my niece's husband always says... We Nederlander's get no respect. In America that is. :)

[Catsquotl]

ahh, :) As my niece's husband always says... We Nederlander's get no respect. In America that is. :)

I knew there was a reason anything american left me feeling indifferent either way. From where I am sitting I hoped for Trump to win. But only because he didn't mingle in world politics much so that would have been one player less to worry about.

[Emil El Zapato]

That would make sense if it were true, unfortunately, Trump is quite a few levels below the average politician. The analogy has been made that he is more of a criminal don than anything else. One could easily compare him to Jimmy 'the chin' Gigante

[Catsquotl]

That would make sense if it were true, unfortunately, Trump is quite a few levels below the average politician. The analogy has been made that he is more of a criminal don than anything else. One could easily compare him to Jimmy 'the chin' Gigante

Don't know jimmy the chin. But I believe most politicians to be "honest" for a few weeks once they get elected at most. As for who is the bigger criminal. That is merely a matter of how far one is effected by them.

[donk]

Wait, is this about Trump not getting impeached?
Don't like the guy, but the impeachment was a farce to begin with me thinks.

If that trial is the measure of truth and justice we do have a long long way to go.
Now that in my book is what is really sad.

You don’t think DJT is responsible for the white hog brigade on the Capital?

Or you don’t think Congress should officially hold him accountable and attempt to “cancel” him from sitting in government?

[Catsquotl]

The latter

[Catsquotl]

To be fair, politics wasn't the main topic for this thread.
But if you want to include it here. answer me why people like bush jr, bush sr or even obama should not be impeached and cancelled for their responsibilities in the death's they caused?

But no let's get they guy we can't control(joke) and let's make sure he doesn't go into office anymore, because he is racist and grabs women by the pussy.

Sigh..

[Emil El Zapato]

Internal versus external. I'm not a believer in nationalism because nations always tend to punish outsiders, are very forgiving if governmental actions are in accord with the nation's stated goals. What is not forgivable is when governmental actions are intended to harm the nation within itself. A simple formula actually. The truth is the right always pushes the boundaries of global peace accords and the left always tries to pull them back. Over 300 years of American history is a good lesson in point if one cares to look. All nations behave in this fashion as according to the Hegelian Dialectic of left and right.

[donk]

To be fair, politics wasn't the main topic for this thread.
But if you want to include it here. answer me why people like bush jr, bush sr or even obama should not be impeached and cancelled for their responsibilities in the death's they caused?

But no let's get they guy we can't control(joke) and let's make sure he doesn't go into office anymore, because he is racist and grabs women by the pussy.

Sigh..

Junior should be impeached, and tried for war crimes. Probably Obama too, but I didn’t pay much attention as I was disheartened we lived with the Bush Iran Contra Cheney regime for 8 years and I was burnt out. Couldn’t help but pay attention to Trump cuz he flaunted it. There should be consequences for crimes.

If it is not political, how can it REALLY be “cancel culture”? Corporations and private citizens can choose to do what they want, as long as it is not harmful to others or discrimination, which is already considered crimes.

To be fair, I have not gotten to your video of your example—I will when I can and maybe understand a little better.

[Catsquotl]

I think we mean 2 different things when we say cancel culture.
Your example was a good one.
Johny depp losing his spot on the next disney movie is another.

The cancel culture I am referring to is the one that is creeping in more and more were people are losing their livelyhood over perceived offence being taken where none was given.

Take Jimmy swagger. Crying his eyes out because he'd gone got caught sleeping with whores. Fair enough. Now would we expect the same if he slept with a prostitute when he was 19. 30 years after the fact? That's cancel culture.

It serves no purpose but to satisfy the need for atonement from some overly sensitive political correct woke social justice warriors.

Due to the abundance of social media pressure I think a lot of these things grow out of proportion.

[donk]

Got it, yeah—I am pretty obsessed with US politics these days and it is driving me crazy the way the R’s whine about it about everything, including how them losing ores election is “cancel culturing” 70 million voters and then turning around and censuring Senators for voting to convict DJT. My concern is the twisting of the idea that is getting pervasive in media

[Wind]

Johny depp losing his spot on the next disney movie is another.

That case was truly sad and pathetic considering that he was the victim and his crazy BPD wife (https://youtu.be/aca0KWoHtqQ) was abusing him.

She got to stay as the "victim" and didn't lose any roles because of it, as she's a woman. Johnny is going to have more court battles.

[Emil El Zapato]

If that cancels culture it's been going on for at least 30 years ... men lost that battle long before I left it. It's a term that the right, as they do beyond normal human capability, has brought to the conservative/alt-right consciousness as a dirty word ... I think it was about 30 years ago they did that to the term 'Democrat'. I hate buzz words as bad as any other words used to propagandize for the right. They are literally begging to have the human race cancelled by way of atavism.

[donk]

That case was truly sad and pathetic considering that he was the victim and his crazy BPD wife (https://youtu.be/aca0KWoHtqQ) was abusing him.

She got to stay as the "victim" and didn't lose any roles because of it, as she's a woman. Johnny is going to have more court battles.

One of them was lying about the other, it’s presumptuous to believe either not having been there or presented overwhelming evidence...is that what happened here? She unquestionably made shit up to hurt his career?

You KNOW JD was falsely accused, and the powers that be punished him by means “cancel culture”?

Purposely getting someone blacklisted or to lose their job for vindictiveness or whatever selfish reason is being a shitty deceptive person lying and committing a crime.

“Cancel culture” is a concept of the alt-right, the real problem is “deception culture”...too many Americans would rather be lied to than told a truth they don’t like. Too many lies are being “allowed” to be part of our “culture”.

Such a dumb fucking thing to be a goddam talking point. I’m cancel culturing myself from this discussion, peace out y’all

[Aianawa]

Iirc it was the the statues being first cancelled, could be incorrect though.

[Catsquotl]

Next time I will start with a detailed explanation and definition of what I mean by the words I type.
I never meant for Cancel Culture to be some sort of left or right winged political tool. Even though it's been abused that way.
Neither the lonely decision of a company canceling a contract.

What I am talking about is the tendency, and maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, that lately it seems more and more prevelant that due to social media and political correctness. People are punished for stuff we deemed insignificant a few years back. Not only that but that there is little room for discussion or truthful ding, but an all out emotionally charged verdict based on an assumption of offence.

If you will donk look into the evergreen story.. you'll see what I mean.

[Emil El Zapato]

One example does not a meme make.

[Emil El Zapato]

"the more civilized a society seems to be, the more susceptible it is to its buried atavism"

[Catsquotl]

Atavism:
a tendency to revert to something ancient or ancestral..

Ok.
Never mind. Guess I'm just seeing things

[Catsquotl]

One example does not a meme make.

Agreed. I think I see a newish tendency here. There's more examples. This just is the easiest recognizable

[Dreamtimer]

Antifa is a Trump thing or being used by Trump DT ?.

Trump is an opportunist. If he can rile up or increase his base in numbers he'll use whatever tool is at hand. Fear-baiting works really well for him. So, antifa is a tool. (And they're tools as individuals because they destroy stuff).



Truth and justice are what is canceled in America, sad fucking day

Well, the wusses had to hide behind procedural bullcrap. "Yes, Trump was bad but bureaucracy, you know."

Just like John Bolton, "Yes, there were grave national security concerns. And if the Democrats had just been nicer to us we would have helped them in the impeachment."

Effing weaklings!


Cats, the impeachment did happen, before the end of Trump's term. People aren't using the correct term. What just happened was the conviction phase. That's the part Clinton also got acquitted for.

If Clinton hadn't been acquitted, he would have been removed from office.

Weird how vague conservatives are with the terminology... Oh wait, not weird at all when folks want to muddy waters.

The wonderful irony is that it was the most bipartisan impeachment trial ever with SEVEN republicans voting to convict.

That's actually a huge number. Normally no-one in the same party will vote to convict. (of course, we've only had a few impeachments)


I knew there was a reason anything american left me feeling indifferent either way. From where I am sitting I hoped for Trump to win. But only because he didn't mingle in world politics much so that would have been one player less to worry about.

He would have, big league. He would have messed with any and every country he felt like. The shackles would have been off and he would have had no compunction about screwing around with other countries.

And then there's the effect that US unrest has on the rest of the world. It would have been exponentially worse.

[Dreamtimer]

too many Americans would rather be lied to than told a truth they don’t like. Too many lies are being “allowed” to be part of our “culture”.

So true. I see it first hand. My sister-in-law will say things like, "I had to put that out of my head. I just couldn't handle it. I just couldn't handle the truth."

I suppose self-awareness is good. And denial is always bad.


Al Franken got cancelled pretty badly. The photo which cost him his job was from well before he was a Senator. It was in bad taste, and he was a comedian. Comedians do things in bad taste.

There's no reason he couldn't have spoken about it and lessons learned, etc. His actions would demonstrate his sincerity.

And he wasn't given the chance. And he lost his position representing the People.

It was stupid, and considering how so many men still get away with groping, assault and rape, a definite travesty.

There was no justice there.

[Catsquotl]

He would have, big league. He would have messed with any and every country he felt like. The shackles would have been off and he would have had no compunction about screwing around with other countries.

And then there's the effect that US unrest has on the rest of the world. It would have been exponentially worse.

I am not so sure about that. It would have been nice to see the is diminish for a while from their dreams of grand importance. 4 more years of Trump I believe would have given that a good chance.

[Dreamtimer]

The US falling into disarray isn't really good for the world, is it? We get a fever, the world gets the flu? I don't want to see us suffer and fall apart, and I sure don't want to see the fallout affecting the rest of the world.

I don't want us to screw around with other countries. Our economic influence is inescapable, imo.

Our fall affects all.

[Catsquotl]

Opinions differ on that one.
It would break my heart to see americans suffer
That said I am not so sure your economic influence is something to be desired.

[Chris]

The US falling into disarray isn't really good for the world, is it? We get a fever, the world gets the flu? I don't want to see us suffer and fall apart, and I sure don't want to see the fallout affecting the rest of the world.

I don't want us to screw around with other countries. Our economic influence is inescapable, imo.

Our fall affects all.

That would be the conventional Wisdom DT, but I'm not sure it still holds true.

Like I explained in the collapse thread, the Petrodollar actually holds the rest of the world hostage and siphons of their productivity, to be consumed by the US. If the US were cut loose, potentially a lot of productive capacity would go on to benefit people in other parts of the world, raising their standard of living and the end of the oil age might come about at the same time that the petrodollar collapses.

The US economy is incredibly hollowed out, it really doesn't amount to much these days, except the production of raw materials (mining, agriculture, oil and gas production), Intellectual Property (Apple suing everyone else for daring to make a square phone, that kind of nonsense), Cultural products, especially Music and Movies, Design, as in fashion, and industries connected to the Military, such as Aerospace (Boeing, Space X) and weapons manufacturing, as well as Big Tech.

That doesn't look too bad on paper, but take the example of the iphone, a product most people would associate with America, but actually has very little connection to it. It is a Chinese product, made by a Taiwanese company (Foxconn) that is mostly developed and tested in Asia, with the entire manufacturing chain, from semi-conductors to raw materials, such as Lithium, over there as well.

What Apple actually does is marketing, design, software and some part of the tech development, but the bulk of physically making the product is really done in Asia, by Asian companies, who get a very small share of the profits. Apple allows Foxconn to put an Apple logo on their iphone, they distribute and sell it as an Apple product and they take the almost all of the profits. In this relationship, Apple is basically like a colonial master, taking advantage of people from the other side of the world for shareholder profits. It is not that different from what the VOC (Dutch East India Company) or the British East India Company did in colonial times.

That is not a sustainable relationship and it amplifies the spending power of people in Western Countries (chiefly the US and the UK), giving them an exaggerated sense of self-worth. Once things return to an equilibrium, we will find a much more balanced relationship between various parts of the world, with more of the profits beings made in the countries that actually do the hard work. We have seen this transformation with Japan, South Korea and Taiwan, now it is is also happening in the rest of Asia and some other parts of the world.

Fact is, once the US returns to its proper place in the world, commensurate with its actual economic and demographic weight (Roughly 5 percent of the world's population), the rest of the world will benefit enormously.

[Dreamtimer]

I saw some activism (protest signs and meetings happening) against Foxconn a couple years ago. I'm trying to recall where we were.

You're most likely right, Chris.

And gobs of Americans will fight that thinking tooth and nail, imo. So it'll be another rude awakening I imagine.

But there are certainly many people who see the writing on the wall. I wonder what they plan? :hmm::tea::pc:

[Dreamtimer]

Here's some pretty hardcore cancelling:

Adam Kinzinger is facing major backlash (for following the law, the Constitution and his oath of office).


Oh my, what a disappointment you are to us and to God! We were once so proud of your accomplishments! Instead, you go against your Christian principals and join the “devil’s army” (Democrats and the fake news media).


As the Republican Party censures, condemns and seeks to purge leaders who aren’t in lock step with Donald J. Trump, Adam Kinzinger, the six-term Illinois congressman, stands as enemy No. 1 — unwelcome not just in his party but also in his own family, some of whom recently disowned him.


The author of the letter was Karen Otto, Mr. Kinzinger’s cousin, who paid $7 to send it by certified mail to Mr. Kinzinger’s father — to make sure the congressman would see it, which he did. She also sent copies to Republicans across Illinois, including other members of the state’s congressional delegation.


“I wanted Adam to be shunned,” she said in an interview.

Shunned. Cancelled. Censured.


The implications of what is happening to Kinzinger, and similarly situated Republicans who have publicly opposed Trump, shouldn’t be minimized or underestimated. A politically based cult that can drive people to cast out their own family members, or one that can prompt ordinary politicians to collectively excommunicate their members presents a clear and present danger to democratic institutions.

[Aragorn]

While all of the above is unquestionably shocking, I'm afraid I must side up with Catsquotl on account of his intentions for this thread. What he sought to address doesn't have anything to do with what's being discussed here.

The concept of cancel culture as a whole ─ and Catsquotl has literally described it in his own words already once or twice in this thread ─ refers to people suddenly taking offense in things they have not only tolerated but even endorsed in the past as being part of their cultural heritage. As an example, Catsquotl brought up the commotion regarding Zwarte Piet ─ "Black Pete" in English ─ who is the helper of Sinterklaas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinterklaas).

Sinterklaas himself is a patron saint not commonly known to US Americans, because Americans have conflated the legend of Sinterklaas ─ i.e. the canonized bishop Nicholas of Myra, who lived in the second half of the 3rd and first half of the 4th century A.D. ─ with the legend of Father Christmas, himself a secularized character in the form of a fisherman from "up north" whose bringing of gifts to the children is based upon a legend from the Asgard mythology. The conflated character is what Americans call Santa Claus. But either way, Sinterklaas has a helper named Zwarte Piet ─ and in the Netherlands, he is said to have many such helpers, who are all named Piet ─ and Piet's face is black because he's the one who climbs through the chimney at night to deliver the toys and candy to the good children, and so he's constantly covered in soot.

However, the story regarding Piet's black face was later on given a twist, with Piet wearing typically medieval Spanish clothing, and Sinterklaas supposedly residing in Spain all year long until it is time for him to start touring the countries up north and deliver toys and candy. And then the fact that Piet had a black face was explained away because of the invasion of Spain by the Moors from Northern Africa, with some of that North-African DNA having remained among the Spanish population, so that there are still very dark-skinned people in Spain today. Presumably this was all done so as to create a plausible background for why Piet's face is black, or maybe simply so as to explain why Sinterklaas and Piet arrive in the country by way of a ship/boat every year, while saints are supposed to live in (the Christian) Heaven ─ but the issue has in recent times become highly controversial and contentious, with accusations of racism toward those who defended the tradition of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet coming round every year. Nobody had ever taken issue with any of this before, until a couple of years ago.

Another example ─ one that I personally do have sympathy for ─ is the fact that there is now a loud protest here in Belgium against the many statues of King Leopold II, and the many streets named after him. Leopold II was Belgium's second monarch, and the son of Leopold I. However, he was quite notorious because of his role in Africa ─ specifically, the former colonies Congo and Rwanda, which Leopold II considered his private property. The population of those two countries truly lived under a brutally exploitative colonial regime courtesy of Leopold II, and now that the truth of Leopold II's colonial past is known, many feel that this man does not deserve to have statues of him everywhere, or streets named after him. Personally I'm kind of neutral on account of the street names, but I do agree that he doesn't deserve any statue, and certainly no more than Adolf Hitler would. Or Joseph Stalin.

Yet another example of cancel culture ─ one that I personally do not agree with ─ is the fact that we are now being pushed toward the use of so-called "inclusive language", which itself is actually an incorrect term, because the language is exclusive, rather than inclusive. Concepts that have been used and that everyone in the field is highly familiar with must now be renamed because the original names of the concepts can apparently conjure up traumatic experiences in people who weren't even around to experience the traumatic events when they occurred in the first place. By this I mean that technical concepts such as "master and slave" or "black and white" may no longer be used now because of connotations with slavery and violations of human rights. I presume that the names for male and female connectors will also soon become subject to change because of the plural-pronoun-speaking crowd, who take offense in the very existence of gender. :rolleyes:

The genuinely valid reasons for the canceling of some of a nation's history and/or culture ─ such as in the case of Leopold II as mentioned above ─ notwithstanding, quite often the concept of cancel culture is perpetrated by the kinds of individuals whom the far-right has been (and still is) referring to as "snowflakes", and it is exactly this kind of neurotic behavior ─ by which I mean the cancel culture ─ that strengthens the adherents of the far-right in their hatred for and bullying of those with a left-wing/progressive disposition.

I consider myself a moderately progressive person, but this kind of ─ pardon my French ─ sissy attitude is exactly what provides the right-wing with ammunition, and what has turned the traditional political left-right horizon into a neuroticism-to-psychopathy horizon. The left is neurotic ("I've got a problem with this, and as such, it must become everybody's problem or else I won't have peace of mind"), and the right is psychopathic ("emotions are for wussies and wussies are an inferior species that we must eradicate").

The bottom line is that there are two sides to cancel culture. One side is legitimate and deserves attention. The other side is fake, neurosis-driven and authoritarian. But as with most things, the very concept of cancel culture has become a hype, and whether legitimate or illegitimate, it stems from the so-called political left, and as such it is food on the tables of the far-right movements of the world. As if the far-right wasn't rabid and vicious enough yet.

The real problem lies with humanity itself. Cancel culture is only a manifestation of the problem, not the problem itself. The problem is everybody's "me, me, me" attitude ─ staring at their own navels and occasionally at the splinter in someone else's eye while missing the beam in their own.

[Aianawa]

Ho ho ho , i agree with you both Aragorn, yes Catz i see your intent and maybe it is wider than you thought ?.

[Dreamtimer]

Al Franken was the example which applies best to this thread.

Kinzinger is different, being a current action rather than a past 'sin'.

I guess I was stuck on the idea that it's been going on so long and still is, whether it's past or current actions causing the cancellation.

[Catsquotl]

why-dungeons--dragons-removal-of-evil-races-is-a-golden-storytelling-opportunity/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2020/06/25/why-dungeons--dragons-removal-of-evil-races-is-a-golden-storytelling-opportunity/)

Here's another nice example.
I have played DnD for years and over those years I've had may a great adventure. Until this discussion propped up and the makers of the official game has gone through a few hoops to make the source material less shall we say offensive?
The rules allowed for any and all kinds of adventure settings. The good vs evil has never interfered with an orc paladin searching to cleanse his soul.
Neither has anyone in the games I played on-line or at the table felt that the way orcs were treated was too similar to the black community and therefore so racist orcs should be altered in game to reduce this stereotype.

For people doing research orc are not likened to the black community but depictions of everything that was horrible about war.

Starting from edition 5e. the source books already were written in such a way that every sexual identity had a place etc etc..
Now the races are altered in such a way that any hint of them being evil of whatever is stripped even further were previous text already said that races were mosly this this or often that. never allways.

Another fine example of a company succumbing to the possibility of being exclisive or not inclusive enough so we change the game at it's core.
And we do need to remember DND is nothing but a set of rules to aid an imaginairy co-created storyline.

Take Drizzt Do'Urden a half elf drow who is a main character in some DND campaign settings for around 30 years.

Drizzt has since become a popular heroic character of the Forgotten Realms setting, and has been featured as the main character of a long series of books, starting chronologically with The Dark Elf Trilogy. As an atypical drow (dark elf), Drizzt has forsaken both the evil ways of his people and their home in the Underdark, in the drow city of Menzoberranzan

[Dreamtimer]

I've never run into any racial issues playing DnD. Talk about a buzzkill. The world I played in was based on Shogun. I wonder how many folks would find things 'racist' as they trawl through materials while they look for such stuff?

I'll have to ask my friends if they've run into this. I know a few DMs.

I don't ever recall orcs being representative of black people in any board or role playing game I've encountered. Orcs are all over the place. I couldn't begin to enumerate the different games I've played which have contained orcs.


There's a lot of confirmation bias going on with the cancel culture mentality. People have predetermined it's happening and are sifting through things 'finding' evidence.

This is a larger problem as most folks here know.

I wonder how you get a campaign going to move beyond confirmation bias into reason.

The Age of Reason has been maligned by religious folks and shackled by atheists, imo.

We need Reason. Big Time.

(Can we cancel confirmation bias?:ttr:)

[Dreamtimer]

This is from Vox (https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/12/30/20879720/what-is-cancel-culture-explained-history-debate).


But despite the urgency of these speeches, actually ending someone’s career through the power of public backlash is easier said than done. Few entertainers or other public figures have truly been canceled — that is, they haven’t had their careers totally shut down by negative criticism on the internet.


For example, during 2020 alone, a number of people and institutions have faced public backlash for platforming anti-progressive values. Prominent journalists like New York Times food critic Alison Roman, former Times opinion writer Bari Weiss, and the Times opinion section itself all came under fire for racism and other issues. Food media empire Bon Appetit faces ongoing backlash over accusations the company fosters systemic racism; and Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling faced intense criticism from her own fans after she began to voice transphobic beliefs.


But few of those people have since faced serious repercussions. Times opinion editor James Bennet resigned after publishing one of the most inflammatory opinion pieces in the paper’s recent history, after which Weiss left the paper of her own volition — but both he and Weiss were immediately embraced by prominent Republicans and moderates who saw them as cancel culture victims. Bon Appetit’s editor-in-chief resigned after he was caught posing in brownface, but the company has forged past the blowback with a new executive editor (who is both a woman of color and a former employee of Vox Media).


Alison Roman was placed on a temporary hiatus from the Times following a controversial social media argument she had with Chrissy Teigen, but her popularity continues unabated and her latest cookbook is currently a No. 1 Amazon bestseller. And following her most recent transphobic screed in June, sales of Rowling’s books actually increased tremendously in her home country of Great Britain.

(Home country? Isn't that England?)


After multiple women came forward with allegations of sexual misconduct against him in 2017, Louis C.K.’s career hiatus lasted only around 10 months before he returned to stand-up comedy and performed dozens of sold-out, controversial shows.


After high-profile documentaries exploring allegations of decades of sexual assault against each of them were released earlier this year, both R. Kelly and the late Michael Jackson saw increases in streams of their music, rather than decreases.

Cancel culture is starting to look like it's actually lucrative for some folks.


These questions have received more and more mainstream consideration over the past few years, as the idea of cancel culture itself has evolved from its humorous origins into a broader and more serious conversation about how to hold public figures accountable for bad behavior. And the conversation isn’t just about when and how public figures should lose their status and their livelihoods. It’s also about establishing new ethical and social norms and figuring out how to collectively respond when those norms are violated.



Possibly the first reference to canceling someone comes with the 1991 film New Jack City, in which Wesley Snipes plays a gangster named Nino Brown. In one scene, after his girlfriend breaks down because of all the violence he’s causing, he dumps her by saying, “Cancel that b!#ch. I’ll buy another one.”

Jump to 2010, when Lil Wayne referenced the film in a line from his song “I’m Single”: “Yeah, I’m single...had to cancel that b!#ch like Nino.”


But canceling seems to have gotten its first big boost into the zeitgeist from an episode of VH1’s reality show Love and Hip-Hop: New York that aired in December 2014, in which cast member Cisco Rosado tells his love interest Diamond Strawberry during a fight, “you’re canceled.”

https://twitter.com/renzoracks_/status/547206874148663296


From there, the idea of canceling began to disseminate from Black Twitter throughout 2015,

https://twitter.com/jessstar4/status/656892621047074816


As it caught on, however, the term began to evolve into a way of responding not just to friends or acquaintances, but also to celebrities or entities whose behavior offended you.

The examples which follow involve Ed Sheeran, Amy Schumer, Travis Scott and Kanye West. And more.

The terms 'call-out culture' and 'outrage culture' appear and a bit of history about using the boycott in the American South.


Dr. Anne Charity Hudley, who studies black vernacular and the use of language in cultural conversations like this one, described canceling as “a survival skill as old as the Southern black use of the boycott.”


All of this dramatic rhetoric from both sides of the debate shows how incendiary cancel culture has become.

Aaron Rose, a corporate diversity and inclusion consultant, used to identify with progressives who participate in call-out and cancel culture. But now, he says, he’s focused on objectives like “conflict transformation,” motivated by the question of “how do we truly communicate [and] treat each other like humans?”

“Mainstream internet activism is a lot of calling out and blaming and shaming,” he told Vox in an email. “We have to get honest with ourselves about whether calling out and canceling gives us more than a short-term release of cathartic anger.”



He says he now wants to “create more stories of transformation rather than stories of punishment and excommunication.”


To Rose, and for many opponents of cancel culture, the bottom line in the debate is a need to believe that other people can change, and treat them with according optimism. The difference between cancel culture and a more reconciliatory, transformational approach to a disagreement is “the difference between expecting amends and never letting a wound close,” he said. “Between expressing your rage and identifying with it forever.”



“I get that, but that’s a really middle-class, white privilege way of coming at this,” [Doctor] Hudley countered when I summarized Rose’s viewpoint for her. “From my point of view, for black culture and cultures of people who are lower income and disenfranchised, this is the first time you do have a voice in those types of conversations.”


Looks like we have a ways to go.

(I didn't realize the origins of 'cancel' in pop culture.)

[Aragorn]

Harry Potter author J.K. Rowling faced intense criticism from her own fans after she began to voice transphobic beliefs.

I'd like to put this into the proper perspective, because by wording it as quoted here-above, the author is already assuming a non-neutral and thus thought-policing vantage.

J.K. Rowling has not "voiced any transphobic beliefs". She has merely stated that in her opinion, a woman is "a person who menstruates" ─ or something to that effect. As such, she meant to imply that changing one's gender appearance does not actually change one's gender, because one's gender is indeed an undeniably and genetically determined biological matter.

A sex change operation does not suddenly change one's chromosome pairs, nor does it allow a male-to-female transgender to start menstruating and become pregnant, or for a female-to-male transgender to sire offspring with a biologically female partner. Furthermore, for all its complexity and physical suffering that a sex change operation brings forth ─ we are after all talking about very incisive surgery here ─ it is still only half of the story with regard to the transperson being able to maintain their gender appearance, because the other half of the story is that they will for the rest of their life become dependent on hormone supplements in order to suppress the body's natural tendency to want to restore its native hormone levels.

This is not a belief; these are scientific facts. And just because J.K. Rowling expressed these facts does not make her transphobic. She did not express any hatred for or dislike of transgenders ─ or at least, not that I know of. But here we have that neuroticism again. The pro-trans community is so neurotic that it immediately seeks to squash and vilify anyone who does not agree with their escapist opinion that the concept of gender is what one chooses to be, rather than what nature has predetermined when the fetus was created inside the womb.

Look, I've already said that I'm a moderately progressive person, and I still stand by that. And as you know, apart from being the administrator at this forum here, I am also a moderator ─ and an actively posting member, with at the time of my writing this post 230 official solutions in my name ─ at the Manjaro forum. Manjaro (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manjaro) is a primarily European distribution of the GNU/Linux operating system.

Now, over at the Manjaro forum as it currently exists ─ we had to start all over again from scratch in 2020 due to a complete crash of the forum engine, and many of the old members have in the meantime left Manjaro for another distribution ─ there is at least one male-to-female transgender member that I know of; there were a couple more at the previous iteration of the forum. Moreover, this transgender member is a Dutch-speaking Belgian, even. And I have personally already helped this person out with technical advice on more than one occasion, because (1) helping people out is what the forum exists for, (2) I respect each and every human being for who and what they are, whether I agree with them or not, and (3) a person in need of help is a person in need of help, period. But that does not mean that I could appreciate that this person was behaving flirtatiously toward me the last time I tried helping them ─ I simply ignored it and just carried on with my technical instructions, and with my help, that person succeeded in the reinstallation of their computer's operating system.

So, does my ignoring of their flirtations or my above elaboration on what biologically constitutes the concept of gender transphobic? What about respect for my sexual preferences? Does the fact that I am a 100% heterosexual male, and that I'm only attracted to naturally born women ─ you know, with double-X chromosome pairs ─ make me transphobic? Because if it does, then that should by definition also imply that every transperson and every homosexual in the world would be heterophobic. Fair is fair, and the door swings both ways. If I myself, or for that matter, J.K. Rowling are to be accused of transphobia and/or homophobia, then every person with a different sexual orientation and/or another gender identity than the one they were born with should be accused of heterophobia.

And you know what? Those who so easily throw allegations of homophobia and/or transphobia around are in fact themselves heterophobic. And this in turn is all part of the cancel culture that this thread is meant to address. Suddenly biological facts are no longer factual, and reality becomes something that you make up as you go. Well, if that's your thing, then that's your thing, but don't project that onto the rest of humanity, and don't expect reality to step aside just so you can live in your escapist world.

Once again, I consider myself a moderately progressive person, and I respect everyone for who and what they are, and I will also treat them with respect inasmuch as they themselves are also willing to respect their fellow human beings. But it is this kind of neurotic thought policing that makes me just as disgusted with the political left as with the political right. And I know all about neuroticism; I'm autistic, so I was born a neurotic. But I also know the difference between my neurotic impulses and the fabric of reality, and I do not bother other people with my own neuroses, let alone that I'd be demanding of other people that they would placate me in my neuroticism.

One person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins. And sadly enough, the political left and the political right are both guilty of ignoring that premise. :facepalm:

[Elen]

I

One person's freedom ends where another person's freedom begins. And sadly enough, the political left and the political right are both guilty of ignoring that premise. :facepalm:

I agree with you...and now Mercury is stationary, hey! :grin:

[Wind]

That's why I don't like the SJW's, they can be just as nutty and extreme too. I don't like extremes.

[Aragorn]

That's why I don't like the SJW's, they can be just as nutty and extreme too. I don't like extremes.

Extremism leads to a loss of perspective. It's like trying to look at the world through a microscope; the closer up you get to the details, the less you become aware of the bigger picture.

[Dreamtimer]

I think I'm lucky in that I really don't know any SJWs. The folks I know work hard at their jobs and try to make change through their actions rather than whining and judging.

I don't personally find JK to be offensive in her statements. It's a subject which needs discussion, not cancelling.

I think you're right, Aragorn. It's probably the same dynamic as with folks who rail against homosexuality and then it comes out that they themselves are secretly homosexual or have such encounters.

[Aragorn]

It's probably the same dynamic as with folks who rail against homosexuality and then it comes out that they themselves are secretly homosexual or have such encounters.

No, that's completely beside the point I was making. In fact ─ and I read something to that effect in somebody's signature on Usenet a while ago ─ it's more like the typical conservative homosexuals will live in the closet and do everything to hide their homosexuality, while the typical liberal homosexual will not only come out and flaunt their homosexuality, but will also attempt to have things officially regulated so that homosexuality becomes accepted as the norm and heterosexuality as some kind of perversion.

I'm exaggerating, but in this day and age of extremism and polarization, that's what it boils down to these days, and especially so in America, due to (1) the glorification of masculinity (as in every other fascist and crypto-fascist society), (2) the generally conservative nature of US American society and its religiously inspired resentment of anything that doesn't live up to those American (and secretly Catholic) ideals ─ which in turn is why LGBT people still don't enjoy the same rights in America as in other western countries, and why there still is such a thing as systemic racism ─ and (3), the fact that US Americans are so pampered into their consumerist and anti-intellectual culture that a large contingent of the US population is totally oblivious of (3a) established scientific facts and (3b) who they are as individuals.

I've said it before, but the two most lucrative occupations in America are psychiatrists and lawyers, which to me is a very ostensible indicator of how the average US American is simply emotionally immature and ignorant. They consider scientifically established facts (such as the autism-and-vaccines debate) as "merely an opinion", they need psychiatrists to tell them what they are feeling, and they need lawyers to settle disputes ─ and for that matter, with a huge financial gain if possible.

And all of that stems from the insular cultural narcissism, alias American Exceptionalism ─ the belief that Americans are superior to every other people on this planet, in spite of ample and repetitive evidence of the contrary. And America's insular culture, oblivious of anything from beyond America's borders, the constant indoctrination with American Exceptionalism propaganda in both the education system and in the media, and the consumerism and competition-driven society model as represented by the emphasis on sports and capitalism/corporatism are only making things worse in that regard. It's a self-reinforcing mental development trap.

If America wants to cancel anything ─ and America is where the whole cancel culture thing began ─ then let them begin with that ridiculously outdated and hopelessly inconsistent imperial measurements system, followed by exposure to what is happening outside of the US borders ─ and by this, I don't mean "Canada and Mexico". That would be a good beginning, albeit only a beginning.

[Dreamtimer]

I really wish I could dispute you, Aragorn...

I've just recently been experiencing, yet again, the "self-reinforcing mental development trap."

I can't get through to some people. Their minds are closed.



I'm thinking of the term 'normies', which I have heard and chuckled at. But it's not a light jab, is it? It could be a grave insult. :hmm::wry:

[Catsquotl]

If I recall correctly it wasn't even JK.Rowling who said women were people who menstruate. She merely agreed with that statement when someone wrote that.

[Aianawa]

Yes thats correct Catz

[Emil El Zapato]

I've known SJWs, my exes if they had been intelligent enough that is, in their cases, they were just bitches. I think this is a wider example of the internet allowing voices a scale beyond their worth. As the saying goes all things must pass. And so shall the warriors when what little attention they deserve is acknowledged and society evolves to the point of realizing that we need balance. This means the Hegelian Dialectic exacerbated by the right moving righter creating the backlash of hysterics ... :) will end with the result of empathy, compassion, and justice for all.

[Emil El Zapato]

Is that 'Black Petra'?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVgtjdEOa5M

[Malisa]

After an extremely detailed investigation, we have determined that i lack the necessary parts to be a boy, and unfortunately the doctor has given me the bad news that i, do indeed have an uterus inside me... :/

All my dreams have been shattered !

https://jandeane81.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2543&d=1613820754

I'm an "uterouserus" person, it seems.. LMFAO!

So now, if you use the word "woman/women" it means you are transphobic, says the western mindset...

Western culture is a joke now, sorry :/

[Emil El Zapato]

You're a social justice warrior, Malisa? Kudos to you ... I'm a covert supporter ... just avoid using an avatar of a screaming female ... :)

[Malisa]

You're a social justice warrior, Malisa? Kudos to you ... I'm a covert supporter ... just avoid using an avatar of a screaming female ... :)

We don't have those characters here, i find it ridiculous, i'm a woman, i have seen and done things most people could not even think capable of, we live on different worlds. I find the entire idea of that stuff i posted weak and ridiculous

And i would probably eat alive any person who came to talk to me about that

I'm not a person who suffers foolishness

The "justice warrior" thing is a mockery to those who actually changed the world before

I'm just built in the image of my grand parents, i guess, they had a lot of influence in me, and they were old time educated and so on :D

[Emil El Zapato]

Amen Sister, it is a foolish thing ...

[Malisa]

Amen Sister, it is a foolish thing ...

I'm not a human breeding machine, that's for sure LOL, but it is expected that women in general in the west will only serve as that until the simps find a way to replace them with artificial uteruses

I have read about that LOL, it's on the way so it seems, incels are so proud of being unable to talk to a woman, i mean i presented my sister to a few guys and she's like this crazy bimbo atractive 1.8 m tall skinny blonde girl, and they show up so pretencious and once they see her like that and learned she's 18.. you can see their glory slowly fade away and drop to the ground, then they stutter and fail misserably at a simple conversation

This is so sad, and deplorable LOL

Hard to have any respect for people like that, i mean they show up all mighthy and then they see her and their pants fall into the floor LMAO

People should be stronger than that, weak people are all about acting up their characters such as "fake it till you make it" but it's so easy to figure them out...

And the entire cancel culture just shows the exact same thing, that fear and anger that someone is beyond what they can do and expect on life

Few days ago i was talking to a friend and got reminded of something that happened on high school some years ago

I was on the basketball team, along with another friend. We would always win all games at breaks we had from classes, and we would also play on the school's team, i mean we were all into it and spend like 4/5 hours a day training and playing so we got very good

One day we got to school and went to morning team practice. The coach called us to his office and said "you must not play on the same team again during class breaks, and you will play agains each other and you must not go full on against your other class mates, this is final and if you don't do that and i receive another complaint you will be out of the school's team"

Turns out the lazy people complained to the teacher that they could not win ever, and they did not care to win, they only cared to "not lose" agains us, they were perfectly fine losing to other people, as long as it was not "us"

So they called the principal and complained and arranged that we were castrated so they could have a chance to "win"

Why do guys care so much about height? LMAO!

Another thing i remember is around 2 years ago, when my sis turned 16, we went to Moscow and one guy from grade school that was on my sister's class came to the party and showed up all ready to declare his love for her, but he was like 1.6 m tall and she was around 1.72 or so around that time.. Back when they were 12 or so he would be the classic bully and made fun of her for being too skinny and tall, and now he was all over her, my sister being the monster she is, she got very very close to him, to the point he had to look up to talk to her, somehow he looked like a little kid talking while facing up just to see her face, and he did not like that at all, he was all offended and you could see how he could not handle being shorter than her, he left the party to never be seen again..... LMFAO!

[Dreamtimer]

After an extremely detailed investigation, we have determined that i lack the necessary parts to be a boy, and unfortunately the doctor has given me the bad news that i, do indeed have an uterus inside me... :/

All my dreams have been shattered !

https://jandeane81.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2543&d=1613820754







I'm an "uterouserus" person, it seems.. LMFAO!

So now, if you use the word "woman/women" it means you are transphobic, says the western mindset...

Western culture is a joke now, sorry :/

For the sake of hopefully easing some folks minds, I have family all over the country and travel around (when it's not a pandemic) and my son has lived now in a couple other states.

Neither of us know any folks like this, none of my liberal friends talk this way. One set of friends named their daughter Bailey, and their goal was to have a gender neutral name. That's all. No biggie. No weird requests to use special language or pronouns.

I have a friend who's daughter now wants to be known by a different name and wants to identify more as male. No one is giving anyone any shit about pronouns or language. She's just going by a different name.

My son has a friend who likes to be referred to as 'they'. No big deal. She(they) didn't even ask herself(themself). Our son just let us know and said, "No big deal. If you try, they'll appreciate it." No one ever lectured us or acted like we were ignorant or uncaring. This was in the Pacific Northwest.

Some people take things too far. Like when they march on the Capitol and act like monkeys spreading their poop and taking selfies. Does that mean we're all like that?

God, I sure hope not!

[Dreamtimer]

I'm not a human breeding machine, that's for sure LOL, but it is expected that women in general in the west will only serve as that until the simps find a way to replace them with artificial uteruses

I have read about that LOL, it's on the way so it seems, incels are so proud of being unable to talk to a woman, i mean i presented my sister to a few guys and she's like this crazy bimbo atractive 1.8 m tall skinny blonde girl, and they show up so pretencious and once they see her like that and learned she's 18.. you can see their glory slowly fade away and drop to the ground, then they stutter and fail misserably at a simple conversation

This is so sad, and deplorable LOL

Hard to have any respect for people like that, i mean they show up all mighthy and then they see her and their pants fall into the floor LMAO

Sounds like incels are incels, until they're not. I could see choosing to be single and maybe even celibate if I lost my husband. And I've also already had a son, and done a lot of other things which required a partner, so it's easy for me to say.

But being without companionship is very difficult for humans. They become unhealthy. Most humans need other humans to socialize and have contact with or they become depressed and worse. I can be happy alone for a very long time, but eventually I want to be with people.

Idealizing being an incel seems quite short-sighted and foolish to me. We can only deny what and who we are for so long.

(which may be a reason to begin to identify as a different gender. but will never be a reason to be a dick about it. ;))

I don't think that men who want to just get rid of women will be any kind of majority. Most men want women around and many of them would very much like to be very close. The ones who don't want to be around women are not a majority.

It would be a weird kind of devolution. Perhaps, if humans become too numerous or too detrimental to their environment they change, like fish, and suddenly want to be with the same gender, or be another gender, and stop actually reproducing.

It would be a good sci fi plot. But in reality, a check on over-population of humans would be pandemic disease.

Oh look!

[Emil El Zapato]

A number of years ago, some were speculating that if the gender wars continued at some point the human species would be unable to breed. In full honesty, I don't get along with 'strong' women that are not willing to compromise. I call men like that assholes and I call women like that bitches. I don't discriminate. To each their own, I'm not physically a wimp (at least in my younger days), but I prefer to compete intellectually rather than physically. Though I have been a winner in both fashions. Bullying has never been cool.

[Malisa]

Sounds like incels are incels, until they're not. I could see choosing to be single and maybe even celibate if I lost my husband. And I've also already had a son, and done a lot of other things which required a partner, so it's easy for me to say.

But being without companionship is very difficult for humans. They become unhealthy. Most humans need other humans to socialize and have contact with or they become depressed and worse. I can be happy alone for a very long time, but eventually I want to be with people.

Idealizing being an incel seems quite short-sighted and foolish to me. We can only deny what and who we are for so long.

(which may be a reason to begin to identify as a different gender. but will never be a reason to be a dick about it. ;))

I don't think that men who want to just get rid of women will be any kind of majority. Most men want women around and many of them would very much like to be very close. The ones who don't want to be around women are not a majority.

It would be a weird kind of devolution. Perhaps, if humans become too numerous or too detrimental to their environment they change, like fish, and suddenly want to be with the same gender, or be another gender, and stop actually reproducing.

It would be a good sci fi plot. But in reality, a check on over-population of humans would be pandemic disease.

Oh look!

I found the incel thing so ridiculous, lmao

Once, like 3 years ago or so, we went to the beach at Sayulita, in Mexico, and i invited a couple friends, one of them was "incel" supposedly, and i'm not quite a model but i also don't feel bad about my body and stuff lol even if it looks like i'm not progressed beyond 13 years old LMAO, i'm 1.74 m tall, but flat as a table :P, anyways, my incel friend acts like he's completely over women, and that day we got some nice bikini suits and well we thought nothing about it, and once this guy met us at the pool, something happened to his shorts... LMFAO!

I guess incel goes only a very limited way, he could not look me in the eyes anymore, and he was all silent and ridiculously kid like, unable to speak normaly and stuff.

I don't even like guys for the most part, was always was more popular with girls lol, i'm not very "girly" and i guess it shows, and i'm perfectly fine with that. Alway, except a few times, i dress as a boy anyways, and i don't care at all, i'm good and feel happy in any case

But as you said lol, pandemic and such! lol, it will probably go into "must eliminate a ton of people" and then into "oh no we don't have enough people, free rooms for everyone!"

[Dreamtimer]

Humans seem to be pretty good at reproducing under dire straights, i.e., war, disease, climate trouble.

I know several people who have no desire to have children. None of them are gender benders, or gay, or really any kind of 'other'.

Except for the fact that they don't want children.

I also know a few people who swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't want any kids. But then, in their thirties, something magically changed. And now they're family folk.

It's really hard to deny what you are, despite trying and trying.

[Emil El Zapato]

Guys are intimidated by women, not in a physical sense so much, but they tend to look to themselves and worry that they don't measure up ... (not where it counts, of course) but in terms of social status. Women seek 'resources', and if men don't have all they feel that they need, they will be intimidated ... it is a biological instinct. I've read that the most 'comfortable' men are the married ones which are why women fall for them ... it's a weird dynamic and I'm not sure why things work that way. Some have suggested it is about confidence...i.e. strength, competence, control which in turn 'projects' fitness. But then perhaps that is why many marriages end in failure, projection isn't of necessity reality.

What is incel?

[Malisa]

A number of years ago, some were speculating that if the gender wars continued at some point the human species would be unable to breed. In full honesty, I don't get along with 'strong' women that are not willing to compromise. I call men like that assholes and I call women like that bitches. I don't discriminate. To each their own, I'm not physically a wimp (at least in my younger days), but I prefer to compete intellectually rather than physically. Though I have been a winner in both fashions. Bullying has never been cool.

I have bullied guys, but only the ones that come all pretencious thinking stuff like "this girl is so flat, i probably can get her to bed tonight because she looks like a boy" and i do stuff like take a napkin, break it into small bits, then throw a bit of them into the guys hair, some into his beer and so on, and he laughs, then he starts getting annoyed, then he looks at me like "what the hell, respect me woman!" and i ask "what's wrong?" and then throw a small bit of napkin into his hair, and he acts as if it's nothing, but eventually his soul breaks and you can see his precious advantage slowly fading away, until he turns into a wimp

I do stuff like that only to the people who come all superior thinking they can have any women because they feel the girt is less than them, so i destroy them completely and make the actual person show up

Honest people are cool, i'm a bully for sure but i only bully people who bully others and i show them how it feels like lol, there's a reason i was always also called "monster" growing up, oh well

[Emil El Zapato]

Humans seem to be pretty good at reproducing under dire straights, i.e., war, disease, climate trouble.

I know several people who have no desire to have children. None of them are gender benders, or gay, or really any kind of 'other'.

Except for the fact that they don't want children.

I also know a few people who swore up, down, and sideways that they didn't want any kids. But then, in their thirties, something magically changed. And now they're family folk.

It's really hard to deny what you are, despite trying and trying.

yeah, I was in a relationship for 10 years with a woman that had a hysterectomy, so we couldn't have children. I always felt the nagging need to be a parent. We eventually ended our daily sexual wars and I moved to another city to escape.

Don't be angry, but I think of a woman actually bullying a man with a bit of a laugh though I know it happens quite often. I had one short term relationship with a lady who said as I was headed out the door that she would kick my ass if I walked out. I walked out, without one eye turned backwards of course, and never looked back. She was too crazy for me and that took some doing.

But he was bullying you first, Malisa ... I don't blame you at all.

[Malisa]

Guys are intimidated by women, not in a physical sense so much, but they tend to look to themselves and worry that they don't measure up ... (not where it counts, of course) but in terms of social status. Women seek 'resources', and if men don't have all they feel that they need, they will be intimidated ... it is a biological instinct. I've read that the most 'comfortable' men are the married ones which are why women fall for them ... it's a weird dynamic and I'm not sure why things work that way. Some have suggested it is about confidence...i.e. strength, competence, control which in turn 'projects' fitness. But then perhaps that is why many marriages end in failure, projection isn't of necessity reality.

What is incel?

I don't need money from any guy, i have all i need, nice car and apartment and i earn more than most friends i have, it's hard to figure out who to date in that way because most feel "lesser" and can't figure out how to say for example, 'i can invite you to Cancun!" because i can spend more out there than they can. Somehow that's bad for the guys, they lose their tactic lol

So it ends up being either nice guys that are about living and experiences, even if we go on bus for a day to reach the beach, or older guys that already know it's ridiculous to attempt to buy me and instead are honest about what they want. I rather go walk 1000 kilometers with a guy that sells shoes on a corner and get to the beach and have a fantastic weekend, than go with a guy with a car he's still paying or his dad gave as a hand down car. I have 2 cars, i don't need a pretentious kid trying to show off his hand me down dad car LMAO, it feels ridiculous and dumb because i know he could not afford it on his own. The guy selling shoes on a corner and wanting to go camping with 200 dollars and asking for rides is the real winner, all the time

Incels are those guys that can't talk to a girl and when they do, they expect them to immediately fall for them because they are "nice" to them, as if being nice immediately means the girl has to fall in love and drop her clothes and ask to be impregnated and become a sex slave somehow. And when it doesn't happen, they turn into a b*tch and is not worthy of the incel guy. stuff like that is what incel guys are made of

[Emil El Zapato]

that's cool ... you're not a superficial person ... the world surely needs more of that ... :)

[Malisa]

that's cool ... you're not a superficial person ... the world surely needs more of that ... :)

Lol, sorry, i think i went way offtopic lmao, i'll go out now and find someone to bully on the street :P

LMAO

j/k but i did went offtopic, this was about cancel culture, not wimps or incels lol, sorry :/\

[Emil El Zapato]

same thing ... :)

[Dreamtimer]

Do incels want to cancel anything? Do they want to cancel women?

Incel is derived from the words involuntary and celibate. There have been conversations here about it.

Contrapoints, which can be found on you tube, has a video about incels which is both entertaining (for some) and informative (for all).

She (formerly known as he) loves to dress as characters and is super insightful.

[Octopus Garden]

I saw some activism (protest signs and meetings happening) against Foxconn a couple years ago. I'm trying to recall where we were.

You're most likely right, Chris.

And gobs of Americans will fight that thinking tooth and nail, imo. So it'll be another rude awakening I imagine.

But there are certainly many people who see the writing on the wall. I wonder what they plan? :hmm::tea::pc:

Planned. Covid?

[Dreamtimer]

Here's one take on cancel culture. It seems the term is being used in many ways.

I recall the original Limbaugh-incited cancel culture which was to basically cancel liberals. Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition had, as one of their stated goals, to turn the words 'progressive' and 'liberal' into derogatory terms. That was both a stated goal and a manifested one. Ralph Reed's brother has crowed with pride over their success in 'cancelling' liberals.

It's also been the ultimate blame game.

Boycotts are another, very old method of cancelling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHYvdNh7Bk8

[Wind]

Except for the fact that they don't want children.

The last thing I would want to do is to bring a child to this world, but that's just my take on it. No one should take that as an offense, we all make our choices. My brother has continued our family line and kudos to him for that. All a man (like me) really needs is a dog, but sometimes a woman might be good too as a companion. Not bitches though unless they're dogs, I've had enough of them. Ladies, they can be fine. However it seems that I'll be staying single for a good while now and I definitely am not an incel. Sure the loneliness sometimes hits you because I think as social creatures even the most introverted of us do at times desire some closeness with others. Yet... "Feeling alone in a relationship is the worst feeling of all." Best not to settle for shitty relationships, weak people do that because they're afraid of being with themselves and their thoughts.

[Emil El Zapato]

yeah, I agree ... what is important though Wind is that we make good decisions with an air of openness. that's rich coming from me ... :)

[Wind]

She was too crazy for me and that took some doing.

"You merely adopted the crazy, she was born in it, molded by it. She didn't see sanity until she was already a woman, by then it was nothing to her."

[Dreamtimer]

The thread has been cleaned up and offending posts removed.

And now :back to topic:

[Gio]

That's the problem with being a moderator ...
It's difficult to have it both ways.

My question; why do we need all these
moderators for this tiny forum?

[Dreamtimer]

We moderators can't all be here at the same time. Aragorn has many commitments. Elen currently has computer issues. Kathy would normally be over at Eye-Rise but for the ineptitude of the folks handling her technical issues.

Malc has managed to accumulate people who stay with him and his forum for what seems to be an extraordinarily long time for such a forum. He's a good dude.

And, as has been noted many times, the forum likely wouldn't be here at all but for the support Malc has received, especially from Aragorn.

The above comments may also go away for the sake of continuity.

:back to topic:

[Wind]

Gio, you're out of line. Take a breather for now.

[Malisa]

That's the problem with being a moderator ...
It's difficult to have it both ways.

My question; why do we need all these
moderators for this tiny forum?

Because you don't want a Putin impersonator to handle all things and have the other 2 moderatoes watch from the sidelines uncapable of saying anything o make any top level choices? ... I guess..

[Emil El Zapato]

:) 10 people might show up on a daily basis and we can't get along. I left my elementary days behind a loooong time ago. My opinion is that if people want a personally possessed thread then the first post to the thread should have the rules for any would be visitors like I did on the Chaos thread. I have thoughts to think about, not rules ... :)

i suggest we reserve the 1st post on each thread that requires it ... to save, copy & paste the rules on each new page...that would help prevent posting missteps.

[Aragorn]

Because you don't want a Putin impersonator to handle all things and have the other 2 moderatoes watch from the sidelines uncapable of saying anything o make any top level choices? ... I guess..

So now I'm a Putin impersonator? And there I was, thinking I'm just a dirty Euro-commie-wannabe. :ok:

[Catsquotl]

Well this thread took some unexpected turns..
Cancel culture... Who would have thought....

Maybe there is just no escaping it. Every one of us accepts and cancels different things from our imagination.
It happens so fast we often don't see it's origin, but just react on some perceived event and take part or witness the outcome..

anyhow....
That rather wraps up this thread for me...

You guys have fun.
Be kind to each other ok?

[Malisa]

So now I'm a Putin impersonator? And there I was, thinking I'm just a dirty Euro-commie-wannabe. :ok:

Lmao, nooo I'm sorry, meant to say something different... :unsure: :angel:

[Aianawa]

Thanks to all mods from me, i have made it a wee bit difficult with sharing my world view and others of same ilk in fashion and also has been very difficult for me seeing no comprehension of corruption, election fraud, cv19 positive data etc etc but cmon, we have all got this far, this forum is a time stamp that will by many in the future be reviewed, Malc, Aragorn, Gio, Wiz, Elen etc etc will be picked apart and anaprized-lised by people not born yet.

And thanks Catz for allowing this exploration.

[Emil El Zapato]

So what was the objection to my post. It was merely a metaphorical description of the dynamic that exists among most people on the right? Was it so accurate that people freaked?

[Dreamtimer]

Sorry Cats, it just keeps happening.

The roiling waters take a bit of time to calm and flow again in a direction.

I didn't think you meant Aragorn was a commie, Malisa, I just thought you were making a silly joke.

[Emil El Zapato]

"Thanks to all mods from me, i have made it a wee bit difficult with sharing my world view and others of same ilk in fashion and also has been very difficult for me seeing no comprehension of corruption, election fraud, cv19 positive data etc etc but cmon, we have all got this far, this forum is a time stamp that will by many in the future be reviewed, Malc, Aragorn, Gio, Wiz, Elen etc etc will be picked apart and anaprized-lised by people not born yet.

And thanks Catz for allowing this exploration."

lol ... I'm purrfectly satisfied with the ending. What better way to demonstrate the foolishness of the entire concept of cancel culture than to end it with cancellation, Aianawa?

[Dreamtimer]

If Cats is done with the thread, that's OK. He has created a small forum of discussion on the current cancel culture issue which can continue.

Hopefully he won't ask to have the thread closed. But if he were to make such a request, no problem.

Because we are still free to discuss cancel culture in another thread.


Various folks have tried to cancel me at this forum. Bsbray was the first. I won't name the others as that would be bad etiquette. I have been called many names here, accused of being Orwellian, extreme, and more.

The main reason for the desired cancellation, imo, is that I cannot be ignored as a mod.

We have an ignore feature. You can ignore another member, not see their posts.

It's a kind of mini-cancellation.

But you can't cancel a mod.

Drat! ;)



The 'extreme' thing is the most funny to me because, of all the ways I might be characterized by those who actually know me, extreme would likely be the last word anyone would use. They'd laugh if they heard it.


And we all have eyes to look away with...

[Aragorn]

I didn't think you meant Aragorn was a commie, Malisa, I just thought you were making a silly joke.

The commie reference did not come from her. It is what Europeans ─ and especially those with even as much as a whiff of a left-wing persuasion ─ have repeatedly been referred to by an unadulterated hard-right American bigot on Usenet, and for that matter, it wasn't even in a political discussion group. He may even still be doing it today ─ I don't know, because I have his posts filtered out of my feed. ;)

As the matter of fact, Vladimir Putin is most definitely not a communist. He's more of a fascist, really ─ he serves the oligarchs.

[Emil El Zapato]

Well, Dt, me being me ... :) I was the token of cancellation. A worthy recipient. Grammarly, Grammarly, Grammarly failed me. I should have added 'a' to my phrase of cancellation. I really don't mean to stir up things, all of the time ... :). I was walking and the thought occurred to me as to the why to your and my question was the because I posted. It's all that is left <snicker> to answer the dilemma. And as impolitic as the post might have been, I believe it to be the truth. Self-imposed misery by the strictures of their own worldview. It happens to all of us in one fashion or another.

As to Gio, my problem on his thread has always been when I post I can't tell if it is the last ''space'' on the page and most times I never look back so I miss what has happened. As for your and my tag-teaming that is a result of our being online at the same time in the morning. It's all pretty silly in my estimation but anyway, is there a way to tell when I post if that is going to be the last post on the current page? It happens on my threads of interest all the time and because they are threads of interest when I stumble upon the examples I just pull back a page and catch up. What's the big deal?

[Aragorn]

Well, Dt, me being me ... :) I was the token of cancellation. A worthy recipient. Grammarly, Grammarly, Grammarly failed me. I should have added 'a' to my phrase of cancellation. I really don't mean to stir up things, all of the time ... :). I was walking and the thought occurred to me as to the why to your and my question was the because I posted. It's all that is left <snicker> to answer the dilemma. And as impolitic as the post might have been, I believe it to be the truth. Self-imposed misery by the strictures of their own worldview. It happens to all of us in one fashion or another.

I have no idea what you're rambling on about. Is it Aianawese by any chance? :p


As to Gio, my problem on his thread has always been when I post I can't tell if it is the last ''space'' on the page and most times I never look back so I miss what has happened. As for your and my tag-teaming that is a result of our being online at the same time in the morning. It's all pretty silly in my estimation but anyway, is there a way to tell when I post if that is going to be the last post on the current page? It happens on my threads of interest all the time and because they are threads of interest when I stumble upon the examples I just pull back a page and catch up. What's the big deal?

Two things...:


1. Just because the default is 15 posts per page doesn't mean that everyone is using that default. In one's account settings, one can change the number of posts that one wants to see displayed on the same page.

2. That's exactly why you should be replying with quotes. It's a forum, not SMS or IRC. ;)

[Emil El Zapato]

I have no idea what you're rambling on about. Is it Aianawese by any chance? :p



Two things...:

2. That's exactly why you should be replying with quotes. It's a forum, not SMS or IRC. ;)

Ok, :angel:

[Octopus Garden]

I kind of like the idea of communism. I think it's doable. I also like the idea of population control. Very doable. I didn't have children for practical reasons. It seems to me that you should be required to have a permit, rigorous training, pass basic psychological and physical evaluations to go through the whole night mare process. Plus giving birth looks way too untidy and if you aren't lucky you end up with a living breathing nightmare that have to feed and clothe for at least 18 years. No thanks!

I did dream I had babies once and they arrived all at once, 6 of them. Kittens! I was thrilled.

Oh this is about cancel culture. Isn't that about the extreme nutty sjw 'left' applying pressure to venues not to allow platforms for people to speak who disagree with them. That's pretty authoritarian. And they are anti-authoritarian? Right. You'd think it would all collapse under the weight of its silliness...but no. The idiocy soldiers on.:blink::)

[Wind]

As the matter of fact, Vladimir Putin is most definitely not a communist. He's more of a fascist, really ─ he serves the oligarchs.

I think he only serves himself and the oligarchs are there to serve him. The ones who are in his good books get to reap all the benefits of the kleptocracy which he has created. Eventually some corrupt scumbag will inherit his position and possibly during that time Russia might fall into disarray again. If you look into history, it seems quite probable.

[Malisa]

I think he only serves himself and the oligarchs are there to serve him. The ones who are in his good books get to reap all the benefits of the kleptocracy which he has created. Eventually some corrupt scumbag will inherit his position and possibly during that time Russia might fall into disarray again. If you look into history, it seems quite probable.

Not far from the truth, Putin is not some random guy that turned KGB and then president, he's above that right from birth. I mean he has a lineage most people can't handle, that's why he is uncontrollable like that. But anyone would find it impossible to prove, and im not about to try lol

But here's a clue, he doesn't like Vladimirovich, he instead uses Putin, he doesn't want to be called "Son of Vladimir", he wants to be set apart from that name, "Vladimir Vladimirovich" is his actual name, by Russian customs, if you were to add som random name, like Romanov for example...and you have an issue... Lmao

Also he has changed hisname before, he was Platov before being Putin, when he was growing up. He never was Vladimirovich no matter what. Is not very weird except for who he is and why he changed his name back on his youth to attend school?, when he was just a poor teenager, and then a young man? according to "official history", he then went to become Putin after, which his not really his patronymic name "he is not "son of Putin", there was no guy named Putin at all

[Aianawa]

He xzoods an inner angry, great mind also.

[Catsquotl]

But here's a clue, he doesn't like Vladimirovich, he instead uses Putin, he doesn't want to be called "Son of Vladimir", he wants to be set apart from that name, "Vladimir Vladimirovich" is his actual name, by Russian customs, just add the Romanov part and you have an issue... Lmao

Maybe it's because I'm 3 double whiskeys in. But I suddenly like the minds that make up this corner of the interwebs.

Shame we can't seem to get to speak the same language...

[Aianawa]

Same ?, be boring if DT-Wind n me all talked the same lingo about 9/11 being deep state connected mmm but spose we may have differing ponders of how n why and which would make it interesting.

[Wind]

Also he has changed hisname before, he was Platov before being Putin, when he was growing up. He never was Vladimirovich no matter what. Is not very weird except for who he is and why he changed his name back on his youth to attend school?, when he was just a poor teenager, and then a young man? according to "official history", he then went to become Putin after, which his not really his patronymic name "he is not "son of Putin", there was no guy named Putin at all

I read somewhere that Putin admires Peter the Great (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Great).

[Dreamtimer]

I read somewhere that Putin admires Peter the Great (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Great).

No doubt, Wind. I went to St. Petersburg. It's lovely there. Peter the Great is a main attraction. We toured one of his mansions.

He wanted to make Russia more European. It was crucial to him to have the port there. He made leaders from various regions cut off their beards and dress in a more European way. If they failed to shave their beards, he would rip them off himself.

He was a large man. His bed was quite short. This is because they would sleep sitting up.

I can't even imagine.

[Wind]

No doubt, Wind. I went to St. Petersburg. It's lovely there.

Hey, you weren't too far away from Finland and Helsinki, which is my place!

I must admit that Russia isn't a country which I'm too interested to visit even though it's so close to me, but even then I'd certainly like to see St. Petersburg and the Red Square one day. I'm sure the country is great in it's own way even if the government isn't. Also it's next to Asia which is my "spiritual home", I wonder how interesting a train trip through Russia to China would be.

[Aragorn]

I wonder how interesting a train trip through Russia to China would be.

If Agatha Christie is to be believed, then it's not exactly a safe journey to undertake. You might want to invite Mr. Poirot along for the ride. :ttr:

[Wind]

If Agatha Christie is to be believed, then it's not exactly a safe journey to undertake. You might want to invite Mr. Poirot along for the ride. :ttr:

I've seen so many Poirot episodes and movies, but somehow have I not seen Murder on the Orient Express!

[Elen]

I've seen so many Poirot episodes and movies, but somehow have I not seen Murder on the Orient Express!

Here's a spoiler: They all did it! :)

[Emil El Zapato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLuKzH-igLo

In this series, The Mayor of the city comments to a benefactor, colleague, and friend ... "That words are irrelevant to getting the job done" The colleague responds "Oh, words don't matter, n*gger" ... He says he will continue doing so (n-word) until the Black Mayor admits that he is wrong, that in fact, words do matter. The Black Mayor loses the respect of his son and father while the Mayor explains himself and how he made many sacrifices of personal dignity to become Mayor, in order to make a real difference and become some one that his son and father could respect. It's a wonderful series of scenes that give a broad perspective on ''the true place of words in human discourse".

In the end, the Black Mayor admits that his colleague and friend was correct, that words truly do matter. The colleague friend admits that it was extremely painful to himself to repeatedly call him the N-word, but he was determined to prove his point. It was the kind of scene ending that makes one draw a deep breath.

[Chris]

Hey, you weren't too far away from Finland and Helsinki, which is my place!

I must admit that Russia isn't a country which I'm too interested to visit even though it's so close to me, but even then I'd certainly like to see St. Petersburg and the Red Square one day. I'm sure the country is great in it's own way even if the government isn't. Also it's next to Asia which is my "spiritual home", I wonder how interesting a train trip through Russia to China would be.

Not very, unlike you enjoy spending a week on a train, looking at pine forests and flat grasslands... At least, so I'm told. An Aussie friend of mine did the trip from Moscow to Beijing via Mongolia.

The scenery is not that interesting along the way, you're much better off taking a train in the Rockies or the Alps, especially Switzerland.

Personally, the one train Journey I would like to undertake is the Eastern and Oriental, from Bangkok to Singapore via Butterworth and Kuala Lumpur. I'm a sucker for colonial ambiance...

[Dreamtimer]

I've been to Helsinki. It was beautiful. I visited Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden on that same trip.

They were all clean and friendly. The airports amazed me due to all the product outside the stores in the open terminal walkways. Folks would browse and purchase and, I assume, not do much shoplifting.

That would never work in an American Airport.


I have friends who are wealthy enough to spend 100K on a wedding but will still charge their electric car in the neighboring development because they don't want to pay for the electricity themselves.

In other words, taking from others is not just a crime of desperation. In some places, people just don't want to have to pay for stuff.

Must be that 'rugged individualism'. :unsure::blink::palm:


I really liked all the countries I visited and am really looking forward to my return.

But first, Scotland!!!

(I kinda like the emoji typo. I'll leave it for now)

[Wind]

I've only been to Stockholm. I'm curious, how would you compare Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden? :p

I must go to Norway sometime soon as I need to see the mountains. Way too flat here in Finland.

[Chris]

Bill Maher had some excellent bits about cancel culture this week, I'll post them here as they are more relevant to this thread than the humour section:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmXTUSP9a9M&ab_channel=RealTimewithBillMaher


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pabbzNjZ2s&ab_channel=RealTimewithBillMaher

All I can say is that the maoists have turned it up several notches with Biden's election win and what is happening in much of the Western World in this regard is truly terrifying. Although I'm not physically present in this whole madness, I am still affected through my online activities. I've just been banned for life from a forum I've been a member of for over a year, with no possibility for recourse or even explaining myself, because I dared to express an opinion that was somewhat controversial, or to be more precise, I refused to take a sufficiently condemnatory approach. When this happens, they send you an email, which you cannot reply to and there is no possibility of replying to the staff, then they will stamp your account with an accusation of why you were banned, forever shaming you in effect.

Thankfully, I can just move on and this stuff doesn't affect my real life, but the West is becoming increasingly Orwellian and I just don't think I could live in a Western country ever again.

[Emil El Zapato]

bill maher hates it because he's an asshole.

[Emil El Zapato]

Exactly, One crazy does not a barrel make unless one wants to get air time for it ... studies show? What study is subsequent to what they are discussing as NOW? This is why things are muddied ... What they are pushing is no different than the stereotyping of all blacks because one of them is an armed robber. Three examples of cancel culture they present, yet there are millions of examples where 'others' are 'otherized' in a systematic fashion. I've been there and lived it in my educational process. It was a big part of why I said f*ck it by the time I hit 10 years old. So perhaps counter educational processes are not so much cancel culture but cultural awareness started when it matters most regarding the socialization of functional human beings.

The real problem is that parents' don't productively socialize their children, no instead they pass on their social dysfunction from one generation to another. If society can't depend on functional citizens to raise functional children who will or even must take responsibility.

[Emil El Zapato]

Hey Chris, I didn't read your post before watching the videos, in fact I didn't notice that it was your post, I thought it was DT but I'm sure what happened wasn't fair to you, because I know you to be a reasonably fair bigot ... :) just kidding man. I'm not sure what happened but I am surprised. Perhaps you could explain it in greater detail? Perhaps you can convert me to the reality of cancel culture.

[Chris]

Hey Chris, I didn't read your post before watching the videos, in fact I didn't notice that it was your post, I thought it was DT but I'm sure what happened wasn't fair to you, because I know you to be a reasonably fair bigot ... :) just kidding man. I'm not sure what happened but I am surprised. Perhaps you could explain it in greater detail? Perhaps you can convert me to the reality of cancel culture.

It's not such a big deal, but I was a member on an occult forum that had some pretty interesting discussions, with my particular interest being mythology, religion, gods and goddesses, spiritual awakening, Kundalini etc...

That's not the point, but I started a new thread on a controversial topic of discussion (which I'm not going to mention), other people complained that the topic was offensive, so the thread was hidden, I said, fine, I guess we are not ready to discuss this, then I was locked out of my account and banned for life, told never even attempt to return.

The point here is that I was banned because I started a thread on a topic that people found offensive, they complained, I was banned, no possibility of explaining myself or even to reply to the accusations. This is standard procedure on social media now, including on many forums. Previously they just used to ban you for improper behaviour, now they ban you for expressing the wrong opinion, or even mentioning topics of conversation that are out of bounds. You are basically forced to walk on eggshells all the time and if you hold opinions or views that go against what is considered politically correct, you will be cancelled.

Now, for me, no big deal, I don't live in countries like the US or the UK, where that can have real-life consequences, nobody gives a flying fuck here in Hungary, though if I were to work for a multinational corporation, especially if it's US-based, it could become a problem, as they check your social media posts and comb through them to look for un-PC posts. If you made one misstep 15 years ago, you're out, you'll never work again.

This is serious stuff and the main reason I'm not actually on social media with my full real name. I did make some Ill-advised Quora posts in the past though that might make me unemployable in the US, thankfully I don't live there.

[Emil El Zapato]

hmm, yeah I can see legitimate concerns but is it, just another area of unfairness that happens to affect certain 'white' individuals more than others but honestly, it affects everyone. Here's a counter-example that might or not be an analog. Insurance companies, banks, and yes multinational companies base hiring practices on 'financial stability. I see many unethical ramifications to that. Due to historical conditions 'others' are well recognized as being under-employed, underpaid, uninsurable, overcharged for financial loans, etc. In effect, the entire gamut of 'financials' is an unlevel playing field. And, yes, 'others', share their portion of responsibility for their conditions but they don't require any help to screw themselves.

My personal belief is that we as a global civilization have lost our sense of decency and it is amplified by wifi (read Wind's latest post on Self-Actualization). It has always been an extant reality that we are nasty humans and now we get to announce that to the world (My fondest wish since young childhood ... not kidding). Rush Limbaugh is a good case in point. He had millions of adoring fans simply because he was a nasty f*cker. It's the Hegelian Dialectic in play as always. Hyper-nastiness will inevitably create an atmosphere of hypersensitivity. We get what we ask for, a very simple reality.

[Chris]

hmm, yeah I can see legitimate concerns but is it, just another area of unfairness that happens to affect certain 'white' individuals more than others but honestly, it affects everyone. Here's a counter-example that might or not be an analog. Insurance companies, banks, and yes multinational companies base hiring practices on 'financial stability. I see many unethical ramifications to that. Due to historical conditions 'others' are well recognized as being under-employed, underpaid, uninsurable, overcharged for financial loans, etc. In effect, the entire gamut of 'financials' is an unlevel playing field. And, yes, 'others', share their portion of responsibility for their conditions but they don't require any help to screw themselves.

My personal belief is that we as a global civilization have lost our sense of decency and it is amplified by wifi (read Wind's latest post on Self-Actualization). It has always been an extant reality that we are nasty humans and now we get to announce that to the world (My fondest wish since young childhood ... not kidding). Rush Limbaugh is a good case in point. He had millions of adoring fans simply because he was a nasty f*cker. It's the Hegelian Dialectic in play as always. Hyper-nastiness will inevitably create an atmosphere of hypersensitivity. We get what we ask for, a very simple reality.

The trouble, the way I see it, is that the internet and social media have regressed us back to the middle ages, except the entire English-speaking world (emphatically not the whole world) is one giant village, where one misstep or perceived slight gets you ostracised and as illustrated by the Bill Maher bits above, there is no due process or possibility for recourse and justice, essentially these are social media witch-hunts with real-life consequences.

Granted, they won't burn you at the stake any more, but lives still get destroyed and often end in suicide or homelessness.

It is absolute madness and I sometimes wonder if it was actually a mistake to learn English to the extent, that I have and to continue participating in English-language public discourse. I may eventually come to regret it. For now, I take solace in the fact that I am fairly safe where I live now and the current administration in Hungary is fighting back against this, almost uniquely in the Western World, if Hungary can be said to be part of it, that in itself is a separate debate to be had. I feel, that culturally we aren't actually part of the West as it currently is, but we are part of the West that used to be, before it was made to self-destruct through cultural marxism, post-modernism and what today is increasingly looking like some sort of Orwellian Maoism, with self-denunciations, public shamings and condenmations of those that don't fit the mold.

[Dreamtimer]

Cancel culture has been around since before I was born. People were cancelled because of religion, sexual orientation, and also saying the wrong thing.

Michael Richards got cancelled after his rant. Mel Gibson also lost a lot of fans after his own rant.

Franken lost a Senate seat for a joke from well before he ran for office.

Many people wanted to cancel Cardi B after she released WAP. That effort failed miserably.

Cancel culture has existed in one form or another for as long as humans have had societies. Scientists were executed for their heretical ideas. Religions tried to cancel science.

Religious folks in America are doing the same thing right now. Cancel science. Cancel facts. Cancel liberals. Liberals are now 'Satan's Army'.

That's a pretty heavy-duty method to use. Broad-sweeping judgement and accusations of pedophilia.

Massive amounts of cancel culture happening there, imo.


I'd be safer and better off being Bret Weinstein than being a liberal in the sights of a Qanon canceller. The latter would shoot first and not even ask questions later.

[Chris]

Cancel culture has been around since before I was born. People were cancelled because of religion, sexual orientation, and also saying the wrong thing.

Michael Richards got cancelled after his rant. Mel Gibson also lost a lot of fans after his own rant.

Franken lost a Senate seat for a joke from well before he ran for office.

Many people wanted to cancel Cardi B after she released WAP. That effort failed miserably.

Cancel culture has existed in one form or another for as long as humans have had societies. Scientists were executed for their heretical ideas. Religions tried to cancel science.

Religious folks in America are doing the same thing right now. Cancel science. Cancel facts. Cancel liberals. Liberals are now 'Satan's Army'.

That's a pretty heavy-duty method to use. Broad-sweeping judgement and accusations of pedophilia.

Massive amounts of cancel culture happening there, imo.


I'd be safer and better off being Bret Weinstein than being a liberal in the sights of a Qanon canceller. The latter would shoot first and not even ask questions later.

Yes, true, but technology has amplified it and made it so much worse than before. Only a question of time until AI bots go out there looking for wrongthink and "cancelling" people on the spot for having improper or impudent thoughts.

[Dreamtimer]

Oh, I'm totally with you on that.

I'm thinking of the AI that so quickly became racist.

How many people talk about humanity as a cancer or a virus or some other negative thing? What if AI decides to eradicate this pestilence?

The law of unintended consequences is hard at work right now.

[Wind]

Cancel humanity? Perhaps we should rethink about creating any powerful AI's.

_Mg7qKstnPk

[Dreamtimer]

I was thinking of that movie. But the reality is much less romantic. There's no hero to be targeted.

I think we have to reconnect to nature and spirit in order to develop any kind of benevolent AI.

[Emil El Zapato]

If and when AI is aware enough to make those judgements, their decisions will bear very little resemblance to a human decision. I read a book a while back where AI is truly in control of the mob. It was a brilliant book by the way but I'm not remembering the author right now. In any case, the author lays out the AI mind like this; The logic applied to decision-making is so flawless that it surpasses the concept of right and wrong and lands squarely on fair. Meticulous logic on a much grander scale than humanity is capable of is at its quintessential peak much more fair and empathetic than we could hope to master in another ten millennia.

[Dreamtimer]

Beau lays out the history of Chinese and other asians being cancelled in myriad ways throughout the history of the US.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFbHml5ba0M&t=600s

[Dreamtimer]

Gen X now? (I'm just a lost generation)

https://twitter.com/claytoncubitt/status/1371561352096067587

[Aragorn]

Gen X now? (I'm just a lost generation)

https://twitter.com/claytoncubitt/status/1371561352096067587

As much as I can appreciate what that individual on Twitter says, he's putting a party-political spin on things by twisting the concept of cancel culture into a different meaning.

What he's talking about wasn't cancel culture but reactionary conservatism. Cancel culture isn't about abolishing anything current, but about neurotically rejecting anything that could possibly, how remotely ever, cause someone somewhere to experience some sort of self-appreciation issues due to their race, gender, sexual orientation or whatever, with as a result that the identity politics issues of those particular individuals must therefore by definition become issues for all people.

I've given examples higher up the thread already, and I am sorry to say that cancel culture is indeed a disease of the (primarily American) left. This has nothing to do with the reactionary tendency of the political right to want to undo any progress made by the left as soon as another Republican takes up residence in the White House ─ which is of course inevitably going to happen sooner or later.

[Dreamtimer]

Thanks, Aragorn. There are many different takes on what cancel culture is, and recently some fingers have been pointed at Gen X. Peoples' reactions vary widely, obviously.

Bill Maher is capitalizing on the cancel culture from the left at the moment. Jordan Peterson has been for some years now. Both men are doing just fine.


People are losing jobs, like Alexi McCammond. Her tweets were seen as racist, she apologized for them, they were from when she was under eighteen years old.

But no editor-in-chief job at Teen Vogue for her. Has she been cancelled? Probably not. She'll get a job. Just not that coveted one.


Canada had a bunch of regulations that were problematic regarding pronouns. I don't see that happening here.


This article (https://statenews.com/article/2020/09/a-look-into-cancel-culture?ct=content_open&cv=cbox_latest) equates it with public shaming. An age-old practice. (used recently in India to encourage use of toilets).


My parents removed many of the 'controversial' Suess books from the shelves when I was a child. Suess wasn't cancelled then, and isn't now.


Forbes, in September (https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2020/09/13/cancel-culture-is-only-getting-worse/?sh=30b0deac63f4), published an article saying that cancel culture has many definitions, but is certainly getting worse.


This Huffington Post (https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/what-is-cancel-culture_ca_5f1ddae7c5b69fd4730de8f8)article goes into great detail about the different takes on what cancel culture is and who is being targeted.


One of the most common forms of cancelling is in politics. A candidate can lose it all over one word-flub, or one old comment caught on tape. It used to just be a mainstream media thing. But now folks can jump on all kinds of media bandwagons and lay it on thick.


It may be that because there's been so little political power on the left, in particular during my adult life, the cultural backlash is seen as a remedy. But it won't last because it goes too far, there will be a backlash, and then we'll move on to the next form of cancellation.

Hopefully it won't be witch burnings.

Here's a piece of opinion (https://www.conspiracymeow.com/post/the-dangers-of-cancel-culture) that seems to hit it on the head when trying to define cancel culture.


Cancel culture is really just normalizing hostility and violence for whatever reason that the people doing the canceling feel like. When people take to acting on emotions alone, which is at the heart of cancel culture, we are allowing law and reason to depart from human rights.

[Dreamtimer]

A fellow named Tim Miller wrote about cancel culture. He was involved in a personal kind of cancellation over something on Facebook.


My situation is a prime example of how the “cancel culture” conversation has been degraded by the conflation of one real problem (normal people feeling like they can’t say their opinions without being fired—or worse, that they’ll get fired for the old opinions) with two not real problems: (1) public figures being criticized for something they’ve done (hi Andrew Cuomo, you have not been cancelled) and (2) the supposed “stifling” of political speech online (which is somehow occurring during a historic high-water mark for political speech).

Decoupling these matters is the only way that we can begin to address the real problem. But the people who are obsessed with “cancel culture” keep commingling them, for self-serving reasons. While the people who are pro-cancellation— or at least anti-anti-cancellation—use the stupid non-cancellations as a shield to pretend the problems don’t exist at all.

More here (https://thetriad.thebulwark.com/p/lets-talk-about-cancelling).

[donk]

I’d rather be a “social justice warrior” than the antithesis, the “cancel culture warrior”

So called SJWs spend their energy trying to help the oppressed be harmed less. CCWs spend their energy sticking up for assholes that are penalized for breaking the current rules/norms of our predatory capitalist hierarchy.

It’s so fucking dumb

[Dreamtimer]

I agree. I can recall when my parents got rid of a couple Dr. Seuss books. We kept the rest and it wasn't a problem. No one thought Dr. Seuss was being cancelled.

It is dumb, donk. And it's a distraction too, imo.

There have been some real issues recently, but it's not really a new dynamic. People have been blackballed forever. People can be banned from restaurants/bars/venues. People are kept out of influential clubs, etc.

Cancelling, or attempting to cancel, the influence or popularity of a person is nothing new.

Overreaction is certainly a problem. People make mistakes. People can learn and people need to forgive.

Live and learn is much better than cancelling, imo.

[Emil El Zapato]

Gen X now? (I'm just a lost generation)

https://twitter.com/claytoncubitt/status/1371561352096067587

This is a fact, it's why the conservatives canonized Reagan. Anybody that is willing to kick the sh*t out of those that are down is their kind of hero and is Da' man.

[Emil El Zapato]

This is a fact, it's why the conservatives canonized Reagan. Anybody that is willing to kick the sh*t out of those that are down is their kind of hero and is Da' man.

I don't even know what to think, feel, say. Cancel culture is a conspiracy. It's an emotional response to not getting one's way. The loudest voices as always are full of crapola. The real people that are cancelled are never heard from, they are mice, dogs, and other less than human folks, in the eye of the beholder that is. The people complaining about them mostly fall into two categories. No actually just one, not really fully formed individuals stuck in their 'me' phase. I've been there. I heard on the radio just yesterday there's a 'new' program to help women navigate and survive divorce. I almost wrecked my car. Women have had a handbook for f*cking over their husbands since the Annunaki ruled. Help women survive divorce, that's hilarious, it's a form of capitalism for them. Not to mention that over 70% of divorces are initiated by women for nothing more than existential angst.

Is that justice? Who cares, there is no such thing as justice. Is that fair? Who cares there is no such thing as fairness.

Not everyone is a social justice warrior that expresses themselves with 'bitchin'. Some actually want the best for everyone. And I agree with the Donkster, I would much rather be on the side of the bitches that really want to help people and have an intrinsic sense of right and wrong, fairness and justice.

[Dreamtimer]

Not all women are manipulators. Many are abused and terrorized by their husbands. Or they have no support from family/friends, and no way to make their own living. Or they're terrified of losing their children. Or their husband has an aggressive lawyer.

And there are women exactly as you say, pal. ;) In fact, we were just talking with a family member who has PTSD from his relationship with his ex wife who was physically abusive among other things. Even now, his daughter is afraid to contact him because of what his ex might do.

But let us not ridicule women who need help. There are a great many.

[Dreamtimer]

I'm having fun now watching the losers who have to shut voters out in droves to even win elections anymore and who've been whining and moaning about cancel culture now try to cancel big corporations like Coca-Cola, and tell them to 'stay out of politics' while also telling them it's OK to give lots of money.

Give money, sit down, shut up.

We gave you your bailouts, we gave you your tax breaks, now shut up.

[Emil El Zapato]

You know this is a good thing for all the alts. You wanna bring down the system. Hope big bidness and Republicans go to war!

[Aragorn]

You know this is a good thing for all the alts. You wanna bring down the system. Hope big bidness and Republicans go to war!

At this point, I think a little introspection among the participants of this thread is called for. This thread is about the subject of cancel culture ─ which, as I've already had to clarify on a few occasions now ─ has nothing to do with party politics or with the United States of America. In fact, if anything, then the drive behind cancel culture primarily comes from the so-called political left-wing. And yet every time, you guys turn this around into a US-party-political matter, and into shoving the blame for cancel culture onto the US Republicans.

I don't think I need to still tell anyone that I consider myself moderately progressive (and thus left-wing), but what you guys are doing to this thread is just plain wrong. Perhaps you haven't even noticed that Catsquotl, who started this thread, has stopped participating in this discussion, but I have, and I'm fairly certain that this is because of how you guys have time and again been turning this thread onto the matter of the US-political, and for that matter, pro-Democrat/anti-Republican vantage. And that is all-telling.

Anyway, I guess this thread, too, will thus from here on be one that I won't even be wasting my time looking at anymore. I am not a US American, and this Team Blue partisanship here at the forum is getting just as old as the Team Red partisanship we've seen being played out here earlier, and that on occasion still pops up its head here and there.

[Emil El Zapato]

Well, I have noticed the constant traffic regarding whatever cancel culture is. So I should probably switch my interests and start checking out the yokel thread. That's always a hootenanny!

[Dreamtimer]

I'm sorry Aragorn. I've witnessed variants of cancel culture for four decades now.

It's really quite difficult to limit myself as you say. It's really been a much bigger thing than what's been coming from the left. That's just the latest incarnation.

But I'll drop the politics from this thread.

[Aianawa]

The self cancelling aspect of cancell culture is huge on many divides but that is imo what it all be about, Divides, you know dividing, add politics to really divide, soon imo pro groups are going to get big, pro something positive, like when pro building a wall is now being done by both sides, so lets all be pro wall n not pro trump n party or pro biden n party, simply pro wall because it works not because both doing it.

Away from cancel to pro, pro ice cream every nite, pro non political threads, pro adorable kittens

[Emil El Zapato]

ain't no wall ... walls are only good for keeping people in ... that's why it's called a 'Prison Planet' ... I hope this is a cancel culture thought ... if not, I suppose I'll have to apologize in advance.

BOB

[Emil El Zapato]

I got this email a little while ago. I can't swear to the provenance but the contents while not a picture still paints a mouthful of words:

Hi Vyexules,

Who knew that in 2021, in America, we would be fighting for free speech?

Yet, for the past few years, leftist activists, megacorporations, social media titans, Hollywood elites, and the mainstream media have been silencing speech they don’t like.

If they don’t like it, they censor it. If it offends them, they cancel it and the person or the organization saying or posting it. We see it time and again in our own interactions and even in our private Facebook group.




Stand Up for Free Speech


According to the American Bar Association:
“The Supreme Court has held strongly to the view that our nation believes in the public exchange of ideas and open debate, that the response to offensive speech is to speak in response. The dichotomy—society generally favoring free speech, but individuals objecting to the protection of particular messages—and the debate over it seem likely to continue unabated.”
The ABA references the college campus controversies regarding free speech as an example of “freedom of speech in flux.”

As the ABA noted, “contrary to widely held misimpressions, there is not a category of speech known as ‘hate speech’ that may uniformly be prohibited or punished.” While some people may hate certain speech, it does not mean it is hate speech, despite the radical actions being taken in today’s cancel culture.




Stand Up for Free Speech


Today’s cancel culture is becoming increasingly more toxic. And it’s resulting in less access to information that is necessary for a healthy society and well-balanced dialogue.

In the case regarding former President Trump’s blocked Twitter account, “a federal judge ruled that blocking access to individuals based on their viewpoint violated the First Amendment."

We cannot let FREE speech get CANCELED. We must protect the most sacred American value of free speech before it’s too late.

Sign the Free Speech Pledge today.

Thanks,

Victoria Coley
Vice President of Communications

[Aianawa]

Funny person BOBXNAP, all part of evolving the cancel and divide n assist people to see themselves or their slavery unknown OR know thyself connect-etc

[Emil El Zapato]

I reckon' the entire forum missed my post/thought/point/reflection/observation/lesson/intuition/hegelian dialectic manifestation/realization/realism/truism/drop shadow/double-bind/history lesson/meta-cognitive/meme-filled ambient/nonsensical debate/awareness of superficial thought processes/contra-defense/inescapable egoism/contextually restricted/misapprehesions of connectedness/denial/sheer psychic blindness/self-absorbption/projective perspective/dishonest invective/indefensible moral culpitude (A situation of futile hopelessness combining the salient elements of personal culpability and moral turpitude) which all point to the differences between apolitics and politics and moral values.

The simple fact that we can't see the differences points to the heart of perspective. Perspective is important but not when it is obscured with petty annoyances leading away from the meat of the subject or provide opportunities for passive-aggressive cowardice.

Thank you, thank you, thank you very much, Elvis the bob is now leaving the building ... but only for a cigarette and a cup of coffee. :)

damn, i always do this ... I missed 'Knowledge passed on from children'

[Emil El Zapato]

I am serious about this.

When you have gotten my point please let me know.

I receive these unsolicited emails due to the hacking of my electronics several months ago. It has been reported to me by various internet security organizations that my email is on the dark web... so,

The below addressee, ostensibly me, is a computer-generated name used to penetrate and spread Jain technology (Alien technology created for one purpose ... destroy all living intelligent life) throughout the global network.

Hi Vyexules,

What do Teen Vogue, Coca-Cola, and Major League Baseball have in common?

They’ve all been willing participants of cancel culture… in the most hypocritical way. Speak up about cancel culture by taking this secure survey today.

Take Teen Vogue, for example. The managers at Teen Vogue were well within their rights to fire their editor-in-chief because of decade-old offensive tweets. Employment in a high-profile editorial job at an elite employer like Vogue magazine is a privilege, not a right.

But if they were to apply their standards equally, they’d also fire their senior social media manager who published a letter reportedly signed by more than 20 staffers rejecting the editor-in-chief… while she also had decade-old offensive tweets and was left untouched.

Then there’s Major League Baseball, the latest corporation to engage in selective outrage. The MLB chose to punish Americans in Georgia over misleading and false reports about their election law, while continuing business-as-usual with China, despite its evident human rights abuses.

Reminder: China doesn’t have voting rights…. nor does it have any basic rights or freedoms. And this move by MLB cost Georgia $100 million.

What’s next? Is cancel culture coming for you?

These incidents could be an opening for a national dialogue about redemption, racial reconciliation, and forgiveness. But instead of educating and discussing in a civilized manner, the forces that be decided to cancel those with whom they disagreed.

How are we to heal and unite as a nation if this is the standard operating procedure?

If you’ve had enough of the double standards, SPEAK UP. Share your opinions about cancel culture today.

Thanks,

Carrie Sheffield

P.S. Read more about the MLB move here and the Teen Vogue incident here.

[Dreamtimer]

Boycotts have been around for a long time. They are a way to resist or bring forth change which is not violent or destructive.

To call them cancel culture is to cop out of the conversation.

How about we stop cancelling peoples' right to vote instead of making laws based on lies?

I'd much rather see activism like boycotting than shootings.

[Dreamtimer]

I keep hearing 'cancel culture' being used as a shield to defend against getting caught in wrongdoing and lawbreaking.

Whether it's the thoroughbred trainer, the church leader, politicians, or talking heads, they're all whining about getting caught breaking the law and calling it cancel culture.


Whatever legitimate concerns exist regarding the reality of cancel culture, which is real, it's being bastardized and lost by all the whiners hiding behind 'cancel culture'.

They're literally cancelling any gravitas the term had left.

Sad.

[Aianawa]

Whom are you hearing that from ?, important who you are hearing this from indeed, once we hear who you are hearing your beliefs n thoughts and mind energy to create from, then we may be able to flower here maybe, Trumps off air as such, biden is not really with us, Kamala next in charge but you seen her communicating, like wow and how the heck, mmmm who is moving the chess pieces.

BUT most important, who are you hearing this from Dreamtimer ?.

[Emil El Zapato]

Whom are you hearing that from ?, important who you are hearing this from indeed, once we hear who you are hearing your beliefs n thoughts and mind energy to create from, then we may be able to flower here maybe, Trumps off air as such, biden is not really with us, Kamala next in charge but you seen her communicating, like wow and how the heck, mmmm who is moving the chess pieces.

BUT most important, who are you hearing this from Dreamtimer ?.

ohhhhhhhh Aianawa,

Haven't you heard? The Golden One may get his throne back!

[Dreamtimer]

I'm hearing it all over the place, Aianawa. One person after another, who has been caught in fraud or drugging horses or bilking their followers, or embezzling or other crimes and wrongdoing and they're crying 'cancel culture!'

Because they don't want to take responsibility.

It's being used as an excuse.

And I do mean all over the place. It's not necessary to search for examples. They pop up left, right and center.

[Dreamtimer]

Andrew Doyle is an Irish journalist and writer best known as the creator of the Twitter personality Titania McGrath, a parody of an ultra-woke, 24-year-old, militant vegan who thinks she is a better poet than William Shakespeare. Though the 43-year-old Doyle describes himself as a left-winger, he is a fierce critic of cancel culture and a proponent of Brexit. He holds a doctorate from the University of Oxford in early Renaissance poetry, is the host of the new nightly show GB News, and is a columnist for Spiked. (He's a previous guest on The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie.)

Doyle is also the author of the new book Free Speech and Why It Matters, a comprehensive, learned, and compelling argument in favor of unfettered debate and open expression. Nick Gillespie talks with him about why cancel culture is on the rise, how to combat it, and what Titania McGrath is up to as she approaches her quarter-life crisis.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7NEs1cYdAw&t=1s

I haven't come across Titania (other than in the Talisman Woodlands expansion). I'm definitely interested in the book.

[Dreamtimer]

Things are getting serious when someone loses their job and then children are potentially put in danger. This looks like cancel culture on steroids.


On Monday, Dr. Michelle Fiscus, a pediatrician who has been in charge of vaccination programs for the state of Tennessee for the past two years, was fired from her position.

Why? Because of an informational memo she sent to her staff. She didn’t create the policy she described in the memo. But she paid the price for daring to inform her staff that such a policy existed, and in fact has existed for 34 years.

She wrote the memo after getting guidance from the TN Department of Health’s general counsel. It was this policy that she outlined in her memo that got her fired. Because a staff member that received the memo threw a fit and posted the memo to social media, which of course then cause many more people to throw a fit and rage at their legislators, who then...well, Fiscus lost her job. Because I guess someone’s head had to roll for daring to mention a decades old policy that some people don’t like.

Dr Fiscus' statement after being fired was published in The Tennessean (https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/07/12/covid-19-tennessee-fired-vaccine-official-michelle-fiscus-fears-state/7945291002/).

[Dreamtimer]

Cancel Culture is the ultimate "ooh, shiny!" and people are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

Here in the US, the latest 'horrific' examples include some Dr. Seuss books, M&Ms, Potato Head, Minnie Mouse in a pant suit, and more. And the dimwittery is such that millions seem to now believe that it's the Biden Administration doing this. An idea that's delusional. Not that that matters.

The shiny distraction is crucial so that the book banning, now the book burning, the ratting on neighbors, the vigilante justice, the teachers ratting on kids for talking about transgender identity, the kids ratting on the teachers for teaching the 'wrong' things, cameras in classrooms, suing teachers, continued abuse of libraries as regard free speech and access to information....

Boy do they need that "OH SHINY!" of Cancel Culture. They need it real bad. Bigly.

[Dreamtimer]

Florida is now trying to pass a bill so that kids simply cannot talk about being gay in school. Teachers simply cannot discuss it.

And people want to whine about poor little Joe Rogan. :fpalm::facepalm::fpalm:

It's reached the point where I now can tell how bad a person's judgement is. Just listen to what they think is 'woke' and 'cancel culture'.

[Fred Steeves]

Florida is now trying to pass a bill so that kids simply cannot talk about being gay in school. Teachers simply cannot discuss it.

And people want to whine about poor little Joe Rogan. :fpalm::facepalm::fpalm:

It's reached the point where I now can tell how bad a person's judgement is. Just listen to what they think is 'woke' and 'cancel culture'.

I’ll tell you what, these never ending culture wars continue to be just what the doctor ordered to keep us ever divided.

On the cancel culture front lines, it’s never ceasing to amaze me that first and foremost, both sides are doing it even as they wave the finger of guilt at “the other”.

But even higher up on the ironic chart, is that both sides see themselves perfectly justified when they do it, it’s just making things right (pardon the pun), but when “the others” do the same thing, it may as well be the crime of the century.

[Dreamtimer]

I don't care when it's actually a cultural thing. If someone decides they want to be called 'they' or 'she', fine. If the Seuss Foundation decides to stop punishing books, that's their choice. If M&Ms is updating their marketing, good on them.

I have a problem when it comes down to laws banning speech, promoting snitching and spying, ratting on neighbors, targeting teachers. Suing women who've had miscarriages.

I don't know what that has to do with 'both sides'. It's coming from a very clear direction. The laws and legislations engaging in this are not on both sides. They're clearly on one side.

Whoever is behind the scenes is invisible, and they're manipulating one side. Or perhaps it's better said, that one side is more prone to being manipulated.

[Fred Steeves]

I don't care when it's actually a cultural thing. If someone decides they want to be called 'they' or 'she', fine. If the Seuss Foundation decides to stop punishing books, that's their choice. If M&Ms is updating their marketing, good on them.

I have a problem when it comes down to laws banning speech, promoting snitching and spying, ratting on neighbors, targeting teachers. Suing women who've had miscarriages.

I don't know what that has to do with 'both sides'. It's coming from a very clear direction. The laws and legislations engaging in this are not on both sides. They're clearly on one side.

Whoever is behind the scenes is invisible, and they're manipulating one side. Or perhaps it's better said, that one side is more prone to being manipulated.

Your point of view on these matters is really starting to remind me of PA member "ExomatrixTV" (John Kuhles), except y'all are polar opposites. It's practically a full time job for him to try and convince everyone within earshot that the Left/"the others" are solely responsible for all social ills. Except when one of "them" says something he agrees with, maybe they point out something on their own side that needs addressing, and in that case, here's a Lefty to be listened to. But when that same Lefty criticizes something on the Right, they are to be ignored. It's a one way street with no exceptions.

Now in our case here, it's dutifully hammered away that the Right/"the others" are solely responsible for all social ills. Except when one of "them" like The Lincoln Project starts saying things against their own, in these cases "the others" are to be held up and praised, at least until they go back to going after the other side again.

John will never acknowledge that there are problems on the Right, you'll never acknowledge that there are problems on the Left, and never the two shall meet on a common ground.

This is what's known as divide and conquer. There's just no talking about it, "the other" is "the problem" and that's all there is to it. No nuance necessary it's very black and white.

[Chris]

Your point of view on these matters is really starting to remind me of PA member "ExomatrixTV" (John Kuhles), except y'all are polar opposites. It's practically a full time job for him to try and convince everyone within earshot that the Left/"the others" are solely responsible for all social ills. Except when one of "them" says something he agrees with, maybe they point out something on their own side that needs addressing, and in that case, here's a Lefty to be listened to. But when that same Lefty criticizes something on the Right, they are to be ignored. It's a one way street with no exceptions.

Now in our case here, it's dutifully hammered away that the Right/"the others" are solely responsible for all social ills. Except when one of "them" like The Lincoln Project starts saying things against their own, in these cases "the others" are to be held up and praised, at least until they go back to going after the other side again.

John will never acknowledge that there are problems on the Right, you'll never acknowledge that there are problems on the Left, and never the two shall meet on a common ground.

This is what's known as divide and conquer. There's just no talking about it, "the other" is "the problem" and that's all there is to it. No nuance necessary it's very black and white.

I think you'll find this forum is riddled with "Godless Commies" and "Leftist Hippies"...

:ha:

Actually, I think Vern is the only right-winger here, but it's a couple more weeks til he's back from his vacation.

Better resurrect Gracy May to bring some balance to the force... :lol:

[Fred Steeves]

Better resurrect Gracy May to bring some balance to the force... :lol:

Gracy is currently enjoying retirement in the south of France.

However, watch out for that wild ass sister of hers named Jan, as they both shared a brother who was an undercover cop. Gracy strove for balance, Jan may be trouble:


Tweeter and the Monkey Man were hard up for cash
They stayed up all night selling cocaine and hash
To an undercover cop who had a sister named Jan
For reasons unexplained she loved the Monkey Ma

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMKTZdkaU4

[Aragorn]

Actually, I think Vern is the only right-winger here, but it's a couple more weeks til he's back from his vacation.

Vern himself isn't really a right-winger. It's just that he's a sucker for conspiracy theories and woo-woo, and if you look for especially the former, then inevitably you're going to end up looking at right-wing blogs, videos and other disinformation sources. :noidea:

[Chris]

Vern himself isn't really a right-winger. It's just that he's a sucker for conspiracy theories and woo-woo, and if you look for especially the former, then inevitably you're going to end up looking at right-wing blogs, videos and other disinformation sources. :noidea:

Yeah, been there, done that

[Dreamtimer]

It's not the 'right' Fred. It's all the people you've been talking about for the last few years. Call them neocons. Call them neoliberals. Call them whatever you want. Call them the controllers at the top of the pyramid.

Either way, the legislation that I'm referring to doesn't have a D behind it.

But please, by all means, show me the evidence. Show me the facts on the ground. Where is the legislation from the left calling for the things I described? Where is the Dem's legislation calling for bounties, ratting on neighbors, suing teachers, banning books?

Please, tell me.

I see more 'both-siderism' combined with an inability to deliver the goods.

How about you answer the question instead of yet again getting personal? Can you manage?

[Dreamtimer]

What goes around comes around. What you put out into the world will come back around. The cancelling promoted and nurtured here in America by Limbaugh, Gingrich, and their ditto heads is now coming back around to bite people in the ass. No wonder they're so butt-hurt. It sucks the big one to get a fat dose of your own medicine.

'Cancel Culture' as a cultural thing started, of course, with black people. "Ima cancel you!" It was a twitter thing. White folks sure do love to copy them.

Blackballing, whisper campaigns, sinking a candidate, lying about a business to make it fail, stuffing ballots, cancelling votes, and more have been around for as long as human civilization has been around.

There's nothing new here.

Cancel Culture has become not only an "Oh Shiny!" to distract, and boy does it, it's also now an excuse to get away with saying stupid shit or using bad judgement. As illustrated in this post by Gio (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/10588-Joe-Rogan-Experience?p=842044977&viewfull=1#post842044977). The article is full of hyperbole. Joe Rogan is in the media more than ever, as I pointed out in that thread. Cancel culture whining makes it even more difficult to face reality and stop the real crap undermining communities.


When a woman loses a job at a network because of a tweet from when she was seventeen, that's really stupid. If she's smart, she'll soldier on, get a good job and follow her dream.

If she's petty and resentful, she'll go to podcasts and more, sowing discord and taking vengeance. And making plenty of money.

It's about character.

So when a person tries to pretend that a job loss is the same as legislation/policy designed to make Americans spy and rat on fellow Americans, they've lost the plot. (and that's the plan)

Someone got banned from twitter. A mother who just lost her baby by miscarriage is now being investigated for 'murder' and rattled on by family or community.

If a person wants to say that's the same and both sides do it, I feel really sorry for whatever happened to that person's heart and soul, whomever they are.

The Oh Shiny is going full bore, and the rat-ass turn-in-your-neighbors shit is going on over in the corner where no one is looking. Yeah, let's just keep getting played and pretend that cancel culture is the problem.

[Fred Steeves]

Hey DT. Well first off it's not getting personal, it's stating my observations.

You've named many fine examples of cancel culture coming from the fringe Right. I take zero issue with that.

What I do take issue with however, is the phenomena I continually observe from both sides of the culture war, that being to dismiss wrong doings from one's own camp.


And people want to whine about poor little Joe Rogan. :fpalm::facepalm::fpalm:

Your dismissal of what's being done to Joe Rogan was a prime example of this. This type of thing happens all over the place from the fringe Left, they just go about it a different way than the fringe Right. There's nothing further away from traditional true Lefty values, than trying to shut people up or shut them down. Jon Stewart is a Lefty, but he's not afraid to call out his own for this type of thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifp0VzSMeAs

Both fringes feign the battle cry of free speech, but the battle is really over who can be the censors.

Edit: I didn't see your add on post or I would have addressed it differently.

[Fred Steeves]

When a woman loses a job at a network because of a tweet from when she was seventeen, that's really stupid. If she's smart, she'll soldier on, get a good job and follow her dream.

Dang, that sounds awfully similar to the Right's famous mantra "pull yourself up by your bootstraps". I listened to Rush Limbaugh for 20 years, and he would definitely have given that one his full nod of approval.

Who cares if some dirt bags just ruined your life and got you blackballed, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and move on with it. Go follow your dream lady. Or maybe that job was her dream.

[Dreamtimer]

The goats are reacting duly. They're munching up the 'cancel culture'. And boy does it taste good!!! Yummy yummy yummy. It's the GOAT.

How much money and angst and media attention and attacks on American school boards has happened since the chickens started running around with their heads cut off squawking about CRT? It doesn't even exist. There's no CRT in American schools. (it's a law school elective)

So what's the real thrust? What's the result?

Changes in school curriculum. No more history of slavery. Because it'll teach kids to 'hate America'. This is real change, just like there are ongoing real attacks on school boards.

Now DAs are afraid to indict. Trump is calling for riots if the wrong people get indicted. Isn't that what we used to make fun of when it happened in places like Mexico?

But sure, let's run around pretending that the symptom is the problem. Actually, let's not. I'm sure as hell not gonna waste my time.



These guys tell some stories about trolls and their threats and their cowardice. Which is all part of the 'cancel culture' fallout. Because it's about the results, how people act on inflammatory rhetoric and propaganda, and who's actually taking responsibility.

The first story about talking 'man to man' is quite telling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G15QL9HrzRw&t=2s

[Fred Steeves]

Example A


Things are getting serious when someone loses their job and then children are potentially put in danger. This looks like cancel culture on steroids.


On Monday, Dr. Michelle Fiscus, a pediatrician who has been in charge of vaccination programs for the state of Tennessee for the past two years, was fired from her position.

Why? Because of an informational memo she sent to her staff. She didn’t create the policy she described in the memo. But she paid the price for daring to inform her staff that such a policy existed, and in fact has existed for 34 years.

She wrote the memo after getting guidance from the TN Department of Health’s general counsel. It was this policy that she outlined in her memo that got her fired. Because a staff member that received the memo threw a fit and posted the memo to social media, which of course then cause many more people to throw a fit and rage at their legislators, who then...well, Fiscus lost her job. Because I guess someone’s head had to roll for daring to mention a decades old policy that some people don’t like.

Dr Fiscus' statement after being fired was published in The Tennessean (https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/07/12/covid-19-tennessee-fired-vaccine-official-michelle-fiscus-fears-state/7945291002/).

Example B


When a woman loses a job at a network because of a tweet from when she was seventeen, that's really stupid. If she's smart, she'll soldier on, get a good job and follow her dream.

So is cancel culture a big deal or not DT? You can't conveniently have it both ways dependent on whether it's your side or the other side doing it.

In "Example A" it's indeed a big deal, it's cancel culture on steroids when someone loses their job to the right wing anti vax mob.

But in "Example B", the woman who loses her job to the left wing Twitter mob should just suck it up and move on with her life. If she's smart that is.

I happen to think they're both a big deal, apparently you don't.

[Fred Steeves]

Kyle here does a good job at breaking down Cancel Culture's alter ego, The War on Nuance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYsNrSSjfGg

[Dreamtimer]

Many people seem to have forgotten the big picture when it comes to cancel culture. Which is an easy thing to do

Nearly a year ago, five-thirty-eight did an article about the new GOP political strategy. This is a strategy of choice because they have nothing real to offer. There is no policy. There was not even a platform in a major election year.


Why Attacking ‘Cancel Culture’ And ‘Woke’ People Is Becoming The GOP’s New Political Strategy
(https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-attacking-cancel-culture-and-woke-people-is-becoming-the-gops-new-political-strategy/)
This is the second in a two-part series on the ideas related to race, status and equality influencing the current political divides in America, you can find part 1 here.


Right in the introductory sentence they state the connection to race. Something many folks deny.


In culture and politics today, the most prominent uses of “woke” are as a pejorative — Republicans attacking Democrats, more centrist Democrats attacking more liberal ones and supporters of the British monarchy using the term to criticize people more sympathetic to Prince Harry and Meghan Markle. Those critical of so-called woke ideas and people often invoke the idea that they are being “canceled” or a victim of “cancel culture.”


As we explained in a piece earlier this week, ideas cast as woke are often coming from progressives and involve identity and race (like the notion that white people in America have privilege or that Black Americans should get reparations.) Cancel culture is broadly the idea that people advocating more liberal ideas, particularly around identity and race, have too much power and can publicly shame those who don’t agree with them, sometimes leading to those who don’t share these ideas being removed from their jobs or having their speaking invitations withdrawn (so “canceled.”)


But there is no agreed-upon definition of “woke” or a formal political organization or movement associated with it. Nor is there an exact definition of what constitutes being “canceled” or a victim of “cancel culture.” However, despite their vagueness, you now see conservative activists and Republican politicians constantly using these terms. That’s because that vagueness is a feature, not a bug.

Just like Palin's and Trump's word salads. The audience eats it up, giving it the meaning they want. Like goats.


Casting a really wide range of ideas and policies as too woke and anyone who is critical of them as being canceled by out-of-control liberals is becoming an important strategy and tool on the right — in fact, this cancel culture/woke discourse could become the organizing idea of the post-Trump-presidency Republican Party.


There are at least five reasons why Republicans are likely to keep focusing on the woke and cancel culture over the next few years:


First and perhaps most important, focusing on cancel culture and woke people is a fairly easy strategy for the GOP to execute, because in many ways it’s just a repackaging of the party’s long-standing backlash approach. For decades, Republicans have used somewhat vague terms (“dog whistles”) to tap into and foment resentment against traditionally marginalized groups like Black Americans who are pushing for more rights and freedoms. This resentment is then used to woo voters (mostly white) wary of cultural, demographic and racial change.

This is borne out in the demographics of the January 6 insurrectionists. They weren't struggling economically. They were living in areas where the cultural demographics were changing and becoming less white.

The right wing literally tried to cancel an election and has since been spreading the kinds of lies which literally undermine what little voice we have left. Legislatures are passing voting laws based on claims of fraud which are as real as Mr. Potato head's penis. But they don't care. They really don't care.


In many ways, casting people on the left as too woke and eager to cancel their critics is just the present-day equivalent of attacks from the right against “outside agitators” (civil rights activists in 1960s), the “politically correct” (liberal college students in the 1980s and ’90s) and “activist judges” (liberal judges in the 2000s).


Second, this strategy unifies the GOP while dividing the Democrats, a very useful function in a two-party system in which the parties are in a zero-sum competition. As we wrote about this week, many ideas that are newly ascendant on the left, such as reducing funding for police, divide Democrats (more on that in a bit) but unify Republicans.

And now we get to the information control being executed by Republicans. The real censorship. The real cancelling. They cancel knowledge, education and understanding for the sake of resentment. As when my enraged brother told me they weren't going to do anything with the Democrats, even if it's what the American people want. The Democrats 'are going to pay' for failing to convict and remove Clinton from office. "Even if it's what the American people want." And in the end it's been the American people who pay for their political resentment.


Third, this anti-woke posture provides something of a policy infrastructure for the GOP, aligning with the party’s existing priorities and introducing some new ones.

Republicans totally control the government in many states and are often focused on issues such as tax cuts that may not galvanize the party’s core activists. But a lot of GOP officials at the state level are now rolling out policies that flow from this woke/cancel culture fight. These include limits on public schools’ use of the New York Times’ 1619 Project that chronicles the role of slavery in American history and the teaching of critical race theory at public colleges; the criminalization of tactics used by protesters last year after George Floyd was killed in police custody; provisions to make it easier to sue social media companies for removing people from their platforms, and proposals to allow state governments to cut funding from cities that reduce their police budgets.


Fourth, this anti-woke posture gives conservative activists and Republican officials a way to excuse extreme behavior in the past and potentially rationalize such behavior in the future. Republicans are trying to recast the removal of Trump’s accounts from Facebook and Twitter as a narrative of liberal tech companies silencing a prominent conservative, instead of those platforms punishing Trump for using them to incite violence and encourage overturning the election results. If Republicans suppress Democratic votes or try to overturn election results in future elections, as seems entirely possible, the party is likely to justify that behavior in part by suggesting the Democrats are just too extreme and woke to be allowed to control the government.

Gee, look what's been happening. Just like this article posited. Amazing.


There are many links in the article itself for those who wish to delve deeper.

When people play into this cancel culture bullshit they're feeding this beast which cares for power, not freedom. The politics of resentment don't bring freedom.

[Fred Steeves]

Many people seem to have forgotten the big picture when it comes to cancel culture. Which is an easy thing to do

Nearly a year ago, five-thirty-eight did an article about the new GOP political strategy. This is a strategy of choice because they have nothing real to offer. There is no policy. There was not even a platform in a major election year.



Right in the introductory sentence they state the connection to race. Something many folks deny.







Just like Palin's and Trump's word salads. The audience eats it up, giving it the meaning they want. Like goats.





This is borne out in the demographics of the January 6 insurrectionists. They weren't struggling economically. They were living in areas where the cultural demographics were changing and becoming less white.

The right wing literally tried to cancel an election and has since been spreading the kinds of lies which literally undermine what little voice we have left. Legislatures are passing voting laws based on claims of fraud which are as real as Mr. Potato head's penis. But they don't care. They really don't care.





And now we get to the information control being executed by Republicans. The real censorship. The real cancelling. They cancel knowledge, education and understanding for the sake of resentment. As when my enraged brother told me they weren't going to do anything with the Democrats, even if it's what the American people want. The Democrats 'are going to pay' for failing to convict and remove Clinton from office. "Even if it's what the American people want." And in the end it's been the American people who pay for their political resentment.





Gee, look what's been happening. Just like this article posited. Amazing.


There are many links in the article itself for those who wish to delve deeper.

When people play into this cancel culture bullshit they're feeding this beast which cares for power, not freedom. The politics of resentment don't bring freedom.

And there we've come full circle yet again. When in doubt, resume beating the drum to the age old mantra of republicans being the sole cause of any, and every problem facing this country. No need to look under our own hood, or from another point of view, or question any of our own doctrine, just keep preaching from "The Gospel of Democratic National Committee Talking Points".

I swear it's remarkable how similar this is to the polar opposite doctrine as preached by "ExomatrixTV" over at PA. That being democrats are the sole cause of any, and every problem facing this country. No need to look under our own hood, or from another point of view, or question any of our own doctrine, just keep preaching from "The Gospel of How The Libs Have Ruined Everything".

Both views are sheer partisan hackery, they spit on nuance and throw it out with the daily garbage, and they're ever deepening and widening the great divide as they preach to their respective echo chambers. It's quite something to behold, and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about these runaway trains going after the jugular of "the other".

Neither side allows for dissent or questioning either. Over at PA my questioning of The Trump Train got me pegged a Biden loving commie seeking to divide; over here, pointing out that cancel culture is not a good thing regardless of what side's doing it, actually means I'm only feeding the racist republican beast of resentment.

Interesting how one person can be both of these. Eye of the beholder I reckon.

[Aragorn]

I swear it's remarkable how similar this is to the polar opposite doctrine as preached by "ExomatrixTV" over at PA.

And what's so ironic about John "ExomatrixTV" Kuhles' very vocal opinion is that he's not even a US American; he's a Dutchman. :belief:

[Dreamtimer]

Oh! Look here! Biden's deep in the Cancel Culture mire, working alongside the right-wing liars. Is/was he stupid? Reactionary? (That is, in fact, the Dem's achille's heel. They often leap before they look.)

Actually Biden is just behind the times. He still believes, bless his heart, that he can keep the ship sailing. But that's what Captains do, isn't it?

The ship, however, is sinking, just like Chris has already posited.

The new problem that we have here in America is that millions think that they have a new ship to sail. Problem is it was built with the same quality as that infamous wall which Mexico was going to pay for.

It's extra ironic to think about how Brian Brainwash nearly lost his mind over my criticism of Project Veritas and their 'expose' of ACORN which did succeed in shutting down a service for some very poor people and had absolutely nothing to do with O'Keefe's fantasy.

The goats just love to eat this stuff up. And Project Veritashit endures...

From Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2021/07/01/is-cancel-culture-really-just-long-overdue-accountability-for-the-privileged/?sh=13a29c4d3a22) in July of last year,


In July 2010, former Georgia State Director of Rural Development for the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Shirley Sherrod was abruptly and unceremoniously fired after a highly-edited video of portions of a speech she gave at a NAACP event began circulating on conservative media. The July 20 CBS News article “Shirley Sherrod: White House Forced My Resignation” reported her reflections about two calls she received from USDA deputy undersecretary Cheryl Cook while driving. "The last time they asked me to pull over the side of the road and submit my resignation on my Blackberry, and that's what I did," explained Sherrod. The next day, CBS News continued the story with an article entitled, “Vilsack: I Will Have to Live with Shirley Sherrod Mistake.” By then, President Obama’s Agriculture Secretary who’d made the decision to terminate her learned of the full video and the context that showed her speech was actually denouncing racial bias. Vilsack (and The White House) apologized to Sherrod admitting that the decision was made hastily, Vilsack adding “I did not think before I acted and for that reason, this poor woman has gone through a very difficult time." While Sherrod was ultimately offered a different position at the USDA, her reputation was clearly sullied in the most public of spectacles. Tom Vilsack on the other hand was not terminated for his clear and consequential lapse in judgment, and instead years later was named Secretary of the USDA earlier this year by the Biden administration.

While Sherrod’s firing is arguably one of the most egregious and public examples of someone being terminated prematurely and wrongly, there was little if any whining about “cancel culture” then as the term hadn’t become common vernacular yet. Indeed, “cancel culture” has become the persistent refrain for high-profile “cancellations” over the past couple years, but people have been wrongly or prematurely “cancelled” for decades (if not longer) which begs the question….Why is “cancel culture” such a common refrain now?

Well it doesn't beg the question at all, does it? I already posted the article from five-thirty-eight about the GOP using cancel culture as a strategy since it has nothing else to offer. No real policy. No platform in an election year. No ear to the American people in terms of Promoting the Common Welfare. No care for the majority as they have not actually won the majority for most of my adult life.


[M]uch of what seems to be increasingly labeled as “cancel culture” may just be long overdue accountability for the elite and powerful who have grown accustomed to the tacit immunity that often accompanies wealth, power and celebrity.


Yep.


Anti-racism educator and author of Blaxhaustion: Karens & Other Threats to Black Lives and Well-Being Theresa M. Robinson also points out the subjectivity of what gets labeled “cancel culture”… and what doesn’t. “Cancel culture is either unfair or justified based on the recipient and the alleged ‘transgression,’” insists Robinson. “Colin Kaepernick is one of the best examples of how the cancel culture double-standard operates. He is just one in a long line of Black folks who’ve been subject to ‘canceling’ at the hands of a system that systemically marginalizes and oppresses others.”


This is where CRT comes in. CRT is thrown around because Acronymians just eat it up. They don't care that CRT isn't in the school system. The goal is to undermine the school system. So use the emotional language to get support and avoid thinking about consequences. When it's too late, it's too late. (btw, CRT stands for Critical Race Theory, a law school elective, not requirement).

What people keep seeming to miss is all those pesky laws of unintended consequences. The hubris of thinking that you can control the beast you've created. The hubris of thinking you can just segregate yourself into peace. It's a pipe dream.

Racism is both a real phenomenon and a tool which is used and abused.

The article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/danabrownlee/2021/07/01/is-cancel-culture-really-just-long-overdue-accountability-for-the-privileged/?sh=13a29c4d3a22) is insightful and worth the read.

[Dreamtimer]

Point Park University is in Pittsburg. They have a student paper, The Globe (https://ppuglobe.com/2021/10/chappelle-controversy/). This editorial from October of last year can provide a young adult perspective.

Dave Chappelle using ‘cancel culture’ excuse to make bigoted statements


Dave Chappelle is a comedian who I once looked up to and now cannot stand. His entire shtick has become incredibly one-note and painfully unfunny. If you haven’t been following his recent content, everything essentially boils down to him complaining about “cancel culture” and using this as a lens to say increasingly bigoted things.


The issue with Chappelle’s, and an increasing number of comedians’ cancel culture-based stand-up is that the so-called “cancel culture” that they complain about does not really exist (At least, not in the form they claim it to). A majority of comedians who have been “canceled” don’t actually receive a cancelation. Sure, it can seem like there’s always some new controversy, but that’s what it usually boils down to—controversy and nothing more. Very rarely do comedians actually lose their jobs, and, when they do, they are oftentimes able to reclaim that spotlight after a bit of time passes.


There is an important distinction to be made between being “canceled” for saying something offensive and being “canceled” for sexual misconduct, but if C.K. is able to relaunch his career despite his misconduct allegations, then I don’t think that it’d be very difficult to come back after saying something offensive.


Chappelle is clearly aware of this, joking in his new special that he loves being canceled as it’s given him a larger following and made him millions of dollars. He is clearly well-aware that cancel culture is not actually a problem.

That's right. He's a Capitalist. He's Capitalizing on it. And it's extra because he's black so no one can pull the race card. Brilliant? Not really.


Not only that, but when questioned on Chappelle’s latest special, Netflix’s CEO pointed to a number of inclusive productions, both prior and forthcoming, arguing that Netflix is presenting both sides. This is something that, if you stop and think about, is a pretty backwards way of looking at things. You can’t have a portion of your brand being about how inclusive you are and another portion of your brand being about how people have a right to be bigoted. It’s disingenuous. The CEO followed this up by pointing out how Chappelle’s previous special was incredibly successful for Netflix.

He's right. It is backwards. That's the other big excuse. Both-siderism.


Comedy can have a deeper effect on people, and Chappelle’s words have power and weight beyond just making people laugh.

And that's where the law of unintended consequences comes in. Cancel Culture excuses don't cut it.

[Dreamtimer]

Point Park University is in Pittsburg. They have a student paper, The Globe (https://ppuglobe.com/2021/10/chappelle-controversy/). This editorial from October of last year can provide a young adult perspective.

Dave Chappelle using ‘cancel culture’ excuse to make bigoted statements


Dave Chappelle is a comedian who I once looked up to and now cannot stand. His entire shtick has become incredibly one-note and painfully unfunny. If you haven’t been following his recent content, everything essentially boils down to him complaining about “cancel culture” and using this as a lens to say increasingly bigoted things.


The issue with Chappelle’s, and an increasing number of comedians’ cancel culture-based stand-up is that the so-called “cancel culture” that they complain about does not really exist (At least, not in the form they claim it to). A majority of comedians who have been “canceled” don’t actually receive a cancelation. Sure, it can seem like there’s always some new controversy, but that’s what it usually boils down to—controversy and nothing more. Very rarely do comedians actually lose their jobs, and, when they do, they are oftentimes able to reclaim that spotlight after a bit of time passes.


There is an important distinction to be made between being “canceled” for saying something offensive and being “canceled” for sexual misconduct, but if C.K. is able to relaunch his career despite his misconduct allegations, then I don’t think that it’d be very difficult to come back after saying something offensive.


Chappelle is clearly aware of this, joking in his new special that he loves being canceled as it’s given him a larger following and made him millions of dollars. He is clearly well-aware that cancel culture is not actually a problem.

That's right. He's a Capitalist. He's Capitalizing on it. And it's extra because he's black so no one can pull the race card. Brilliant? Not really.


Not only that, but when questioned on Chappelle’s latest special, Netflix’s CEO pointed to a number of inclusive productions, both prior and forthcoming, arguing that Netflix is presenting both sides. This is something that, if you stop and think about, is a pretty backwards way of looking at things. You can’t have a portion of your brand being about how inclusive you are and another portion of your brand being about how people have a right to be bigoted. It’s disingenuous. The CEO followed this up by pointing out how Chappelle’s previous special was incredibly successful for Netflix.

He's right. It is backwards. That's the other big excuse. Both-siderism. But hey, at least they admitted the bottom line.


Comedy can have a deeper effect on people, and Chappelle’s words have power and weight beyond just making people laugh.

And that's where the law of unintended consequences comes in. Cancel Culture excuses don't cut it.

[Dreamtimer]

Here's another take on what's real and what's fake when it comes to cancel culture.


Cancel culture is nothing new.

Its philosophy -- that anyone can be excoriated for speaking their mind, that people are too sensitive, that the slightest offense can be fatal -- is just a repackaged extension of the decades-long culture wars and the "political correctness" dialogue popular in the 1990s. It's also a remix of common First Amendment and censorship arguments, which often vastly misinterpret the constitutional and legal bounds of both terms. For instance, conservatives have long alleged "censorship" of like-minded voices on Twitter and Facebook, when data analysis shows the volume and reach of conservative content is quite strong and often outperforms other content.

Indeed it does, which is why I'm regularly calling out the whiners for what they are. It's a distraction which they knowingly capitalize on while simultaneously tacitly supporting the long-term cancellation of folks like Colin Kaepernick.


To know the difference, look at the people who actually suffer when these culture wars play out.

In 2016, Colin Kaepernick kneeled during the national anthem at an NFL game. After that season, he hasn't played football since. In the ensuing years, Kaepernick and Eric Reid, another player who knelt, filed grievances against the NFL, saying the league was colluding to keep them from being picked up by other teams.

The early fallout from the #TakeAKnee protests were met with studied indifference by many NFL leaders, and former President Donald Trump and countless other political figures repeatedly cast wide and sometimes violent derision their way.

Where are the anti-cancel culture warriors in Kaepernick jerseys? Where are the anti-cancel culture warriors fighting for men and women who allege wrongdoing at great risk to their own career? It's very convenient that the same people who want to convince you that cancel culture is real also seem to be the ones determining who is worthy of being saved from such a fate, and who is not.

That's because cancel culture isn't real.

There is accountability. There are legal repercussions. There are tides of public opinion and the pull of the free market. There are also longstanding institutional structures that serve to suppress and threaten those who act against the interests of those with power. None of this is cancel culture.

And by pretending otherwise, we're distracting ourselves from seeing the patterns of who really benefits from this rhetoric, and who really loses.

Yeah, the bogus censorship free speech claims. I often wonder, where are the cops lined up to protect BLM and their free speech? Where were the cops lined up to protect the free speech of Occupy Wall Street? Where are the cops lining up to protect the free speech of Antifa?

Can't see them anywhere.

[donk]

I had to stop reading this thread when Fred compared DT to that Exomatrix TV psycho…c’mon Fred, that’s beyond the pale, mods shoulda canceled you from this thread :p

[Fred Steeves]

I had to stop reading this thread when Fred compared DT to that Exomatrix TV psycho…c’mon Fred, that’s beyond the pale, mods shoulda canceled you from this thread :p

Oh come on Phil, please don't tell me you actually had to stop reading, I'm getting visions of Monty Python's "Holy Grail" team yelling "Run Away Run Away" from that terrible little bunny. :p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gP2J0CUjc

Seriously man, first off I don't think John kuhles is a psychopath, I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy, he's just dedicated his online life to preaching the good word that "The Libtards" are 100% responsible for the problems of the world. My guess is that the reason you think he's a psychopath, is because you don't at all agree with him.

And conversely with DT. I'm sure she's a perfectly nice person, she's just dedicated her online life to preaching the good word that conservatives are 100% responsible for the problems of the world.

Both are perfectly good people, they're just dedicated to their cause, and I'm pointing out that they're both doing the exact same thing, just from opposite ends of the political spectrum.

My guess is the reason you supposedly had to stop reading because of my observation, is because you happen to agree with DT's version of the political landscape.

[Dreamtimer]

Thanks, donk.

Trevor Noah gets it. He's not being distracted by both-siderism and cancel distractions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKasIh7qtA

I learned some of the banned titles from this presentation. So pathetic. No wonder people have to run around with their bullhorns and distractions. This is some messed up shit.

Don't let the distractions of cancel culture take your eye off the real ball in play in this game.

[Emil El Zapato]

Thanks, donk.

Trevor Noah gets it. He's not being distracted by both-siderism and cancel distractions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKasIh7qtA

I learned some of the banned titles from this presentation. So pathetic. No wonder people have to run around with their bullhorns and distractions. This is some messed up shit.

Don't let the distractions of cancel culture take your eye off the real ball in play in this game.

What a freaking mess! It's insane!