70 Billion Lost

[Aianawa]

Still comprehending, still watching this atm and a trafficer survivor to talk yet also, stock market getting ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3BUb9jNy_E

[Aragorn]

You really have to be very savvy on account of how the stock markets work to properly understand this, and I myself am certainly completely alien to that world, but I've just watched a video from the local news here in which they try explaining it. And they did a poor job of it too ─ it was all explained by some hip and fast-talking Dutch stock market journalist ─ but I think I got enough of a glimpse of what's going on to understand at least this part. So bear with me. ;)

See, stock market brokers use lots of dirty tactics. It really is and has always been a game of greed-driven predators, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the actual value or the availability of the traded goods. One of those dirty tactics is that you commit yourself to buying a particular share or set of shares at an agreed-upon price from a given broker, no matter what happens to the market value of said shares afterwards. You commit yourself to the deal, and a deal is a deal.

So, say that you take out an option on buying 1'000 shares of a particular company at ─ let's say ─ USD $100 per share. So that's a USD $100'000 transaction that you've committed yourself to, but you haven't had to pay up yet, because you haven't actually bought them yet. You only have them on loan from someone who we shall call Broker X. You then trick someone else, Broker Y, into buying these shares ─ that you don't even own yet because you haven't paid for them yet ─ from you for USD $500 per share. That's a USD $500'000 transaction, right there.

And maybe Broker Y, being the same greedy kind of bastard as you, is trying to pull the exact same dirty trick on you as what you're pulling on Broker X, but that's irrelevant, because Broker Y now owes you USD $500'000. And then you go back to Broker X and you pay him with a voucher for the USD $100'000 that both you and he agreed upon. And now you've just made a USD $400'000 net profit by selling something that you've never even owned, because you already sold it on again before you had actually bought it.

Repulsively abject, right? Well, as it turns out, what's happening right now is that this trick is being turned around against the predators. The predators, driven by greed, are now "borrowing" shares ─ i.e. committing themselves to buying them at a given price, but not paying for them yet ─ and instead of being able to sell them at a higher exchange rate than what they committed themselves to with the seller, they are now forced to either immediately sell the shares again at a lower amount than what they committed themselves to with the original seller, or to hold on to them and watch them drop even farther down in value. So the greedy bastards are now losing money by the busloads.

Of course, this situation isn't going to last. The stock market pretty much makes up its own rules, and so it won't be long anymore before somebody comes up with yet another scheme that will defeat the one that's currently going round. And if they can't come up with one in time, then the stock market is going to collapse and then everybody loses. It's all a game to them anyway, and if they go down, then they'll gladly take everyone else down with them.

[Wind]

I don't understand much about stock markets either, other than that it's a big scam and illusion.

Apparently this movie does a good job explaining a lot of things though, I should watch it.

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Brief explanation here.

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[Dreamtimer]

Small investors are putting a squeeze on Hedge Funds. They're trying to bring them down. And they're almost succeeding. At least one had to be bailed out by the others.

Yes, these predators even bail each other out. I guess so they can keep the game running.

But someone is going to get stuck with the cake and the bill, probably not one of the Hedge funds.

We shall see.

[Aianawa]

Has the boss or president right party said anything yet, had a news conference, spoken to the people yet, as have not seen anything ?.

[Aragorn]

Has the boss or president right party said anything yet, had a news conference, spoken to the people yet, as have not seen anything ?.

Not to my knowledge, but I guess he's got other fish to fry right now. Also, it isn't exclusively an American affair. Every capitalist country has its stock exchanges, and they're all part of the game ─ a game that in my personal opinion should never have been allowed to exist, but alas, it does. :noidea:

[Octopus Garden]

I think its easier to explain it this way. Hedge funds (for example) make bets that a certain company is going to fail, by "shorting" their stock. This has the effect of driving the stock down. Then other sharks pile on, make similar bets, driving the stock down even farther. The sharks "win" if their bet plays out. But they can cause it to happen as well.

This is what was happening with Game Stop. The redditers, noticed the over-shorting going on and all piled on and bought stock, driving the price higher and higher. The more the stock went up, the more it attracted attention and everybody piled on, driving it to insane valuations. The hedge fund sharks lost the bet and some will likely be driven out of business.

Anyway...something like that. Aragorn probably has it nailed better, but I have always struggled with trying to understand all of the details about purchasing options. I get it in a vague general way, and that has to be enough for me, because I don't want my brain to explode.

[Dear Reader]

It would serve the greedy buggers right if they all went kaput, problem is, when the game goes wrong for them, it's mr and mrs Joe-Blow who end up footing the bill, it's the rest of us who suffer when the economic downturn kicks in. When the housing bubble burst and the house of cards came crashing down, governments had to step-in and give them more of our money to get them out of the sh*t!

This is after they'd sucked every last $ and £ out of the system for their own grubby little trotters. Unbelievable.

[Octopus Garden]

Banks were bailed out during the financial crisis, but hedge funds weren't, to my knowledge. And that is something to celebrate. If they don't rush in to regulate groups who acted the way redditers did, it might be protective.

It lets those people who would drive a company out of business through manipulation know that the best regulation is a group that sees what they are doing and could crush them, in return.

The problem for government is if they are going to regulate the checks and balances provided by groups like those from reddit, they have to explain why they are not looking into hedge funds more closely. Bummer for them. They might lose friends!

[Dear Reader]

Banks were bailed out during the financial crisis, but hedge funds weren't, to my knowledge. And that is something to celebrate. If they don't rush in to regulate groups who acted the way redditers did, it might be protective.

It lets those people who would drive a company out of business through manipulation know that the best regulation is a group that sees what they are doing and could crush them, in return.

The problem for government is if they are going to regulate the checks and balances provided by groups like those from reddit, they have to explain why they are not looking into hedge funds more closely. Bummer for them. They might lose friends!

Yes, thanks, I stand corrected.

For mini-rant-esque-ness I lumped them all in together.

But, I'm all for the little man shovin' it up 'em! GameStopGate has brought the cesspool into the light and is helping expose it for what it is, a massively rigged game with obscene rewards. There's too much money involved for the carousel to simply stop, it'll be a case of, the King is dead, long live the King!

[Octopus Garden]

That was a rant? Come on, that was a mere wisp of a complaint, compared to what these Orks deserve. I want to be reincarnated into a place where we are beyond money, just beyond it. People have what they need and no more, and nor do they want any more. They take joy in nature and the company of others and inexpensive recreation. I have grown so so tired of this world as it is now. People, by and large, are asleep, particularly those who think they are awake.

mild mild rant over.

[Dear Reader]

Quite correct, does not even warrant being mentioned anywhere near the word "rant"!

Ye better be careful for what thee wishes if the phrase being bandied about recently has legs.

"In the future you'll own nothing and be happy about it"

I can smell this Brave New World...., or is it Soma?

[Aianawa]

Gosh so the Reddit peoples were goodies doing bad to the not so good greedy ones n two's ?.

[Aragorn]

Gosh so the Reddit peoples were goodies doing bad to the not so good greedy ones n two's ?.

Yes, that is correct. And that is why they called themselves Robin Hood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_effect).

Sadly enough, the stock trading application by that name has now turned around on its promise and is blocking the Reddit people from buying any more stock in GameStop, a video games store that was about to go bankrupt because of the sharks and that, through the actions of the Reddit people, has risen in value again.

[Aianawa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAkwEX1R6b4&feature=emb_logo

[Aianawa]

Still ongoing AND some nasty anti the people goings on they say, thats the start anyway, still watching



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UguL-3zB6yw

[Wind]

The truth as it was told in the cocaine fueled 80's, it's all much worse now of course.

"It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a Zero Sum game - somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply, transferred - from one perception to another. Like magic."

"The illusion has become real, and the more real it becomes, the more desperately they want it. Capitalism at it's finest."

"The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons; And what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own."

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[Emil El Zapato]

Hey, how come I can't see this thread?

It's a conspiracy, mannnn ....

[Aragorn]

Hey, how come I can't see this thread?

It's a conspiracy, mannnn ....

Drug is bad. Don't drug.

[Emil El Zapato]

My psyche knows I don't want to know the evils of money changing ... :)

[Emil El Zapato]

Somehow I've been excluded from this thread ... I think only Aianawa could have done that, correct? I'm suspecting DT might also not be seeing it. :)

[Wind]

Have you been sniffing too much coke again, NAP? Sober up, dude! ;)

[Emil El Zapato]

ok, i don't know what is up, but i can't see the thread unless I log off or by following someone else's link...I saw that you were online and then followed your link. Which was the 1st time I had seen the thread. To be more clear I can't see it at my usual startup point ... "Latest Threads" ... :) ... It has got me reading the vBulletin manual and user guide ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUxkxjGSdM4&feature=emb_logo

"This Week's Posts"

[Aragorn]

ok, i don't know what is up, but i can't see the thread unless I log off or by following someone else's link...I saw that you were online and then followed your link. Which was the 1st time I had seen the thread. To be more clear I can't see it at my usual startup point ... "Latest Threads" ... :) ... It has got me reading the vBulletin manual and user guide ...

"This Week's Posts"

I am willing to bet that it's because of your cookie settings, and perhaps some browser plugins you've installed. I am having no problems at all here at my end, using Chromium as my browser, with AdBlock Plus as the only plugin that affects what I get to see. I do have two other plugins/extensions, but they're irrelevant ─ one ads a "quick dial" page for new tabs and the other one adds the word "Manjaro" to my user-agent.

[Emil El Zapato]

thanks, I'll check it out again ... but to be honest i'm good with not seeing it ... As long as it is my choice ... :)

[Dreamtimer]

I'm not sure what I'm seeing...;)

We failed to learn the lessons of the movie Wall Street, imo.

[Wind]

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[Aianawa]

Agree DT, surprised Mr Brand was unaware it is all rigged, mmm when one comes to the conclusion of markets, corps, wall st, politics, education even etc is all rigged, like is now by many more people being seen in real time , what happens ?, exciting n best movie ever, when all the 4am msn ones said redditers are saying buy silver and then you trot off to reddit ti find main words on arrival in very bolded letters, dont buy silver, oh oh oh yip now the msn's is also being seen and in real time.

[Dreamtimer]

I wholeheartedly second what Octopus Garden said. I would like to live in a world free of money. My brother is beginning to show the symptoms of treating capitalism as a religion. It concerns me.