2020 Isaac Asimov Memorial Debate: Alien Life

[Kathy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgESzc3hc2U
"Sep 25, 2020 by American Museum of Natural History

Neil deGrasse Tyson, Frederick P. Rose Director of the Hayden Planetarium, hosts and moderates a lively discussion about how life might have formed on Earth and explores what alien life might look like elsewhere in the universe. What criteria do we use to classify life as we know it? Should the criteria be revised as we look for life on other worlds?"

[Emil El Zapato]

Tyson is as much of a jackass as Sagan was in his day. Both perfect representations of scientific arrogance. Make me wanna holla'

Sorry Kathy, some just have a knack to be pushing my 'boing', 'boing', 'boing' buttons. I won't be able to listen with Tyson in it.

[Dreamtimer]

I mostly like Tyson. I don't like it when he gets arrogant. He shouldn't, as a scientist. But he's also a personality and speaker and sometimes that stuff comes out.

I recall my parents practically telling me I should believe Sagan and take his word for things because he was so smart. And yet, they themselves did not. It was really weird. I think they were trying to steer me towards a group or a certain kind of group think so that I'd have a group I could 'fit into'. Which was also weird because they raised me not to be in cliques.

They basically sent many mixed messages. Fortunately my Dad also taught me how to be diplomatic so I'd say things like, "Thank you so much for your advice. It's very helpful."

Sagan didn't know all and neither does Tyson.

I really enjoyed his pursuit of the idea that we could be in a simulation. That's certainly outside the normal scientific boxes.


As for Isaac Asimov, I have decided it's time to reread Robots of Dawn. I don't know where my copies are, I may have to get the books again. I Highly recommend.

[Emil El Zapato]

I remember reading one of his science books where he castigated himself for his low I.Q. It was weird, he was obviously a brilliant writer.

[Kathy]

Tyson is as much of a jackass as Sagan was in his day. Both perfect representations of scientific arrogance. Make me wanna holla'

Sorry Kathy, some just have a knack to be pushing my 'boing', 'boing', 'boing' buttons. I won't be able to listen with Tyson in it.

NAP, what you think is your choice. I maintain life is like a mirror.

[Emil El Zapato]

yeah, my mirror is very shiny ... :)

[Kathy]

I remember reading one of his science books where he castigated himself for his low I.Q. It was weird, he was obviously a brilliant writer.


I take it that you're talking about Isaac Asimov. I think artistes commonly cannot judge themselves. I thought Carl Sagan's "Contact" was brilliant.

[Emil El Zapato]

yeah, Contact was great ... his hidden psyche favored the concept of ET's are here, but he hid it for political and professional reasons. Tyson doesn't even posses those redeeming qualities. That is the sole reason I dislike him. I'm so hard to please ... :) Compare Tyson with Michio Kaku (an individual that I admire and like very much) and you might see where I'm coming from.

[Emil El Zapato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD5yc1LQrpQ

[Kathy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD5yc1LQrpQ

I'm just teasing and do see where you're coming from. Now I'm confused, I don't know who thought they had a low IQ.

[Emil El Zapato]

Isaac Asimov ... he was a highly regarded scientist and sci-fi writer but he felt he had overachieved because of his not notable I.Q.

[Dreamtimer]

Asimov must have forgotten that the IQ test was developed to measure success in school. Not raw intelligence. Perhaps Asimov was like dozens of smart folks I know who hated school and barely or didn't finish. They were still smart and successful.

(dozens might be an exaggeration...but certainly many)

[Emil El Zapato]

yeah, there are, at least were many false assumptions made throughout the history of I.Q. testing.

[Malisa]

yeah, there are, at least were many false assumptions made throughout the history of I.Q. testing.

Totally indeed, i have been measured at IQ 134, but when i was 14 it was 139. And i can't do math, apparently i'm more just for arts and other stuff, like mechanical and logical. I can calculate in my mind the route a bullet can take by just looking at the target and 'feeling' it, but somehow math is something i dislike a lot and i could never make the calculations on a paper, if asked. So IQ matters nothing to me. It's just some random number that has not represented my real potential in life ever

My sister is "normal" at around 128 or something, yet she's crazy smart for math, and she builds models and equations and has that bright total scientific aspect about it i can't follow. :)

I know more people like this, who can achieve great things regardless of IQ tests and what they were told they could be good at, it's just not even related i think, i'ts just 'potential' but it was assumed it was a final measure that would tell people what they can achieve

[Wind]

I'm so hard to please ... :)

I've certainly noticed that!

I like Sagan and his pupil Tyson as scientists, but their understanding is limited too and I don't like arrogance either. I liked Contact as movie a lot, I have the book too. I especially enjoyed Sagan's show Cosmos (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtvRfQfTh1K8M9Jrk7LPRhvKLgvJqdNfA). I can disagree with people without necessarily disliking them, can you imagine that? I've never read Asimov's books even though I've read how people have been praising them.


Totally indeed, i have been measured at IQ 134, but when i was 14 it was 139. And i can't do math, apparently i'm more just for arts and other stuff, like mechanical and logical. I can calculate in my mind the route a bullet can take by just looking at the target and 'feeling' it, but somehow math is something i dislike a lot and i could never make the calculations on a paper, if asked. So IQ matters nothing to me. It's just some random number that has not represented my real potential in life ever

That's interesting, I've never been officially measured and I keep mostly quiet about myself as I'm not interested in ego stroking or anything like that. Some people know what I have revealed about myself and that's that. Let's just say that my brain doesn't function in the most normal or neurotypical way. I was never good at math so it kinda made me feel dumb, but then I found out that I had a more creative side in me and I'm especially good at gathering data and looking at the big picture in a way that many don't seem to be capable of, but that is really hard to explain so I even won't try. As I've said before, I think EQ (https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/13-things-emotionally-intelligent-people-do.html) is something that should be valued way more than IQ. Intelligence isn't wisdom anyways, people seem to forget that. Humanity might be intelligent, but it's not wise. Or would a wise species bring itself to the brink of self-destruction? I think not.

I must say that I've always greatly admired both artists and engineers. I just can't figure out how engineers are capable of making stuff the way they do in a very precise and intricate way, thanks to them we have all these amazing gadgets and technology that make life much more convenient. Artists themselves make society a better place too with their contributions, art is one of the best reasons for human existence. Human creativity is quite amazing. At times it makes me feel like this species isn't completely hopeless.

"Art's task is to save the soul of mankind. Anything less is a dithering while Rome burns." ~ Terence McKenna

[Emil El Zapato]

yeah, Jordan Peterson the ineffable intellect, has sharpened the point of intelligence to one measure, "How many numbers can you remember at a time". He's full of sh*t. In terms of the 'g' factor it can't be narrowed down to one aspect of 'working memory'.

How many numbers can you keep in your head at a time?

I've actually always been limited in my ability to do that about average: 6 or 7 numbers would be typical, occasionally one or two more. Yet, I managed to master various levels of advanced math such as Discrete mathematics, linear algebra, graph theory, and Trigonometry after deliberately failing high school maths. My verbal intelligence has been measured in the top 99.97 percentile. I really disagree with that guy, and dislike him Wind ... :) He's a pedagogical buffoon peacock, he should be slapped.

[Malisa]

I've certainly noticed that!

I like Sagan and his pupil Tyson as scientists, but their understanding is limited too and I don't like arrogance either. I liked Contact as movie a lot, I have the book too. I especially enjoyed Sagan's show Cosmos (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtvRfQfTh1K8M9Jrk7LPRhvKLgvJqdNfA). I can disagree with people without necessarily disliking them, can you imagine that? I've never read Asimov's books even though I've read how people have been praising them.



That's interesting, I've never been officially measured and I keep mostly quiet about myself as I'm not interested in ego stroking or anything like that. Some people know what I have revealed about myself and that's that. Let's just say that my brain doesn't function in the most normal or neurotypical way. I was never good at math so it kinda made me feel dumb, but then I found out that I had a more creative side in me and I'm especially good at gathering data and looking at the picture in a way that many don't seem to be capable of, but that is really hard to explain so I even won't try. As I've said before, I think EQ (https://www.inc.com/justin-bariso/13-things-emotionally-intelligent-people-do.html) is something that should be valued way more than IQ. Intelligence isn't wisdom anyways, people seem to forget that. Humanity might be intelligent, but it's not wise. Or would a wise species bring itself to the brink of self-destruction? I think not.

I must say that I've always greatly admired both artists and engineers. I just can't figure out how engineers are capable of making stuff the way they do in a very precise and intricate way, thanks to them we have all these amazing gadgets and technology that make life much more convenient. Artists themselves make society a better place too with their contributions, art is one of the best reasons for human existence. Human creativity is quite amazing. At times it makes me feel like this species isn't completely hopeless.

"Art's task is to save the soul of mankind. Anything less is a dithering while Rome burns." ~ Terence McKenna


If possible never do the test, it's pointless, and depending on age it can cause frustration and confidence issues. Some people end up using that value as some kind of credentials or achievement in life :) Personally, i never say anything when asked, i don't think it's relevant, this may be the first time i mention it and only as a reference, but i do know people who mention it constantly and as a way to say "i know better than you" or "i have a higher IQ, what have you done in life?". It can also completely destroy someone's life and potential, thinking they don't need to make a big effort in life since they are already above normal people and just have to take it easy, they will still be winners because somehow having a higher IQ makes them deserve success :blink:



I liked Contact as movie a lot

:chrs::h5:

[Emil El Zapato]

that was part of the trap that i fell into ... it was a combination of negative factors in my young life, but I took pride in 'failing' forced education just to show them that they couldn't f*ck with me. I never learned to learn and it has hurt me every step of the way. Made everything challenging, much more challenging that it should have been if I had been open to traditional training. In the field of engineering it is a rare situation when a company 'appreciates' the unorthodox individual, at least the unorthodox individual that can't demonstrate in an organized manner that they know what the hell they are doing. :)

And being lazy was so ingrained in me, i was unable to recognize when i was being 'mentally' lazy.

[Wind]

NAP, I can forgive you for disliking Peterson. I think you have a thing for him as you bring him up so often. ;)

On a different note, many geniuses and succesful (I hate what that word stands for normally) people have been college or high school dropouts. Academic education doesn’t necessarily tell anything about intelligence levels or wisdom. I think for free-thinkers places like schools are too limiting and also such people tend to have issues with authorities. I especially always hated being told what to do and specifically what to think. That’s my pet peeve and it didn’t go so well in school.

[Emil El Zapato]

but I like you a lot, Wind ... a sweet dude, you are. :)

[Wind]

You're a good dude too, NAP. I like people who are capable of empathy.