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Catsquotl
10th May 2020, 18:51
New hobby I am re-discovering.

Reading Chris Brennan's hellenistic astrology the study of fate and fortune as a nice little 700 page primer.
And wanting to share some of his basic's as featured on his podcast.

Starting with the signs..

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With Love
Eelco

Aianawa
10th May 2020, 21:04
Lovely to see you again, will delve when able thanks, looks interesting

Catsquotl
13th May 2020, 03:38
Here's an overview of hellenistic astrology by an old army guy Alan White.
Wondeful stuff, if you don't mind the language..

Criss brennan takes a bit to long for his introduction, so if you are in a hurry the flip-chart lecture starts at 18 minutes.

Alan talks about Astrology from Hermes trismegistus to Muffy.
Taking to hart the definition of Bonatti. Astrology is reconstructing the past and to predict the future..

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With Love
Eelco

Catsquotl
18th May 2020, 21:51
As my understanding of astrology is meager at best still I am exited to find that there is a world of knowledge out there away from sun-signs and Jungian archetypes that actually has a rationale for how stuff is signified by planets.

From the marriage of mesopetopian and egyptian observations of the sky in alexandria, it seems that around 3 to 400 BCE the foundations were laid out for what we now as modern or western astrology. Unbeknownst to many perhaps is the fact that since the early 1990's a group of people joined in a project hindsight to start translating older astrological texts and actually use the techniques found with surprising results.

With Love
Eelco

First the renaissance texts and lately more and more of the early texts from around year 0. (If manuscripts survived that is.)

BeastOfBologna
18th May 2020, 22:01
some of the really old texts are fascinating, not that i've read them just seen excerpts from more recent but still old Astrology texts. They were much more 'earthy' in tone at least as far as the Earth signs were concerned. :) They left me traumatized for life.

Catsquotl
18th May 2020, 22:11
They were much more 'earthy' in tone at least as far as the Earth signs were concerned. :) They left me traumatized for life.

Yeah that tends to happen when we forget that Good and Evil have very different meanings now (after holy church oriented indoctrination) Than when these rationale's were put to paper. The terms Benefic and Malefic for planets has actually been banned from publishable astrological works by Llewelen publishing co. for years for instance.

Although. As a Taurus moon person. I like earth, Virgo's aren't that bad either. Guessing Capricorn is the culprit here? I wonder if it was the sign that was described, or the Planetary ruler (Saturn I.E the greater Malefic)...


With Love
Eelco

BeastOfBologna
18th May 2020, 23:26
:) yes, definitely it was...also known as the Celestial Taskmaster, and the harbinger of the end of the world...that's quite a load of bad stuff...

BeastOfBologna
20th May 2020, 15:15
I hate going back...but just this one time I will flow with the current spirit: :)

Vedic Astrology:

Saturn - the celestial taskmaster

Saturn: the celestial taskmaster, often expressed as legendary king of malefic and dreaded God of death. This cosmic force is a prime reference index to screen the karmic deeds and calculate the longevity. Saturn is an indicator of misfortune, limitations, opposition, obstacles and failures. It also rules the mind on the darker side that influences and triggers the socially unacceptable activities caused out of pessimism, melancholy, suppression, oppression, deprivation and dejection. Influence of Saturn also helps in overcoming the hurdles, obstacles, hardships and leads to rewards with high level of discipline. The trials and tribulations caused by this celestial force instill renewed degree of confidence, tenacity and heighten the level of success in undertakings. This force often accepted and acknowledged as ‘teacher’ and bestows enormous personal and spiritual growth through harsh punishments and other corrective measures. This is important cosmic energy that deals with the migration of soul.

Saturn belongs to the Shudra caste (labour class, lowest in order among 4-caste pattern of social classes practiced in Hinduism in ancient days) and regarded as servant in celestial cabinet. The ancient astrological texts bear the mention of classifying this celestial body as neuter gender and attributed to the tamas guna. The nature of this cosmic force is malefic of the highest order. This cosmic force has been considered as a tall stature with command over the west direction with the element of air. The Saturn is personified as the misfortune and sorrow and identified as significator of subordinates in relationship index. Diplomacy is the method of persuasion applied by this cosmic force in human interaction.

Saturn owns constellations of Capricorn (Makara) and Aquarius (Kumbha).
Capricorn, being a negative domain of Saturn which is the 10th of the zodiacal order located at the 270 to 300 degrees, symbolized as ‘animal at the upper and rest half as fish in water’ with the element of earth representing the knees of cosmic man. Mars gets exalted and Jupiter gets debilitated in this zodiacal stretch. Manifests spiritual principles and confers independent evaluation and analytical skills uninfluenced by any quarters and aids in well-defined clarity and expressions.
Aquarius, being a positive domain of Saturn which is the 11th of the zodiacal order located at the 300 to 330 degrees, symbolized as ‘water bearer’ with the element of air representing the lower parts of the leg. This stretch is source of unknown and unseen power, occult science. This stretch causes psychic and intuitive abilities. It gives powerful drive to spearhead the social causes for the less fortunate or neglected and often gives recognition with religious bodies.

Saturn has lordship over the Nakshatras (Lunar mansions) of Pushya, Anuradha and Uttara Bhadrapada and with Mars it signifies the sixth house (bhava Shatrusthan or Rogsthan – house of enemy or disease). It also signifies the twelfth house (bhava Vyayasthan – house of expenditure) with Ketu and singularly signifies the eighth house (bhava mrityusthan – house of death).

In natural relationship with other planets Saturn is friendly with Mercury, Venus and inimical to Sun, Moon and Mars and neutral with Jupiter

Catsquotl
20th May 2020, 21:30
I hate going back...but just this one time I will flow with the current spirit: :)



Thank you,

Yeah the older texts do have a way with words.
In reading them I am adopting the idea that what was written are the extremes on the spectrum. In good and bad.
Researching Timing techniques, (similar to dashas in vedic). Mitigating configurations in a chart and the conditions of bonifications and malnutreatment gives rise to many many more than 50 shades of grey in between though.

At Best for instance Saturn is the grumpy grandpa, which when you ask him for advise will set you down and after a few drags on his pipe and the accompanying cough session tells you to first do your chores, work hard, make sure everything is in place and then leaves you his inheritance.

I do believe though that "modern" astrology has gone a bit to much towards the emphasis of the chart of being a depiction of only the psyche.
Sometimes life just sucks and Saturn can give you clues as to how, where and when these sucking times will manifest in ones life.

With Love
Eelco

Catsquotl
20th May 2020, 21:37
Now that the zodiac episodes have been up for a while here's a podcast by this trio on the significations of the traditional planets.
As an olders episode It is only audio though.


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With Love
Eelco

BeastOfBologna
21st May 2020, 00:34
lol, that's a pretty damn good synopsis... :)

Catsquotl
21st May 2020, 17:26
I hate going back...but just this one time I will flow with the current spirit: :)

Vedic Astrology:

Saturn - the celestial taskmaster

Saturn: the celestial taskmaster, often expressed as legendary king of malefic and dreaded God of death. This cosmic force is a prime reference index to screen the karmic deeds and calculate the longevity. Saturn is an indicator of misfortune, limitations, opposition, obstacles and failures. It also rules the mind on the darker side that influences and triggers the socially unacceptable activities caused out of pessimism, melancholy, suppression, oppression, deprivation and dejection. Influence of Saturn also helps in overcoming the hurdles, obstacles, hardships and leads to rewards with high level of discipline. The trials and tribulations caused by this celestial force instill renewed degree of confidence, tenacity and heighten the level of success in undertakings. This force often accepted and acknowledged as ‘teacher’ and bestows enormous personal and spiritual growth through harsh punishments and other corrective measures. This is important cosmic energy that deals with the migration of soul.

Saturn belongs to the Shudra caste (labour class, lowest in order among 4-caste pattern of social classes practiced in Hinduism in ancient days) and regarded as servant in celestial cabinet. The ancient astrological texts bear the mention of classifying this celestial body as neuter gender and attributed to the tamas guna. The nature of this cosmic force is malefic of the highest order. This cosmic force has been considered as a tall stature with command over the west direction with the element of air. The Saturn is personified as the misfortune and sorrow and identified as significator of subordinates in relationship index. Diplomacy is the method of persuasion applied by this cosmic force in human interaction.

Saturn owns constellations of Capricorn (Makara) and Aquarius (Kumbha).
Capricorn, being a negative domain of Saturn which is the 10th of the zodiacal order located at the 270 to 300 degrees, symbolized as ‘animal at the upper and rest half as fish in water’ with the element of earth representing the knees of cosmic man. Mars gets exalted and Jupiter gets debilitated in this zodiacal stretch. Manifests spiritual principles and confers independent evaluation and analytical skills uninfluenced by any quarters and aids in well-defined clarity and expressions.
Aquarius, being a positive domain of Saturn which is the 11th of the zodiacal order located at the 300 to 330 degrees, symbolized as ‘water bearer’ with the element of air representing the lower parts of the leg. This stretch is source of unknown and unseen power, occult science. This stretch causes psychic and intuitive abilities. It gives powerful drive to spearhead the social causes for the less fortunate or neglected and often gives recognition with religious bodies.

Saturn has lordship over the Nakshatras (Lunar mansions) of Pushya, Anuradha and Uttara Bhadrapada and with Mars it signifies the sixth house (bhava Shatrusthan or Rogsthan – house of enemy or disease). It also signifies the twelfth house (bhava Vyayasthan – house of expenditure) with Ketu and singularly signifies the eighth house (bhava mrityusthan – house of death).

In natural relationship with other planets Saturn is friendly with Mercury, Venus and inimical to Sun, Moon and Mars and neutral with Jupiter

Here's what Vetius Valens has to say on Saturn.


Saturn makes those born under him petty, /2P/ malignant, care-worn, self-depreciating, solitary,
deceitful, secretive in their trickery, strict, downcast, with a hypocritical air, squalid, black-clad,
importunate, sad-looking, miserable, with a nautical bent, plying waterside trades. Saturn also causes
humblings, sluggishness, unemployment, obstacles in business, interminable lawsuits, subversion of
business, secrets, imprisonment, chains, griefs, accusations, tears, bereavement, capture, exposures of
children. Saturn makes serfs and farmers because of its rule over the land, and it causes men to be renters of
property, tax farmers, and violent in action. It puts into one’s hands great ranks and distinguished
positions, supervisions, management of others’ property, and the fathership of others’ children. Of
materials, it rules lead, wood, and stone. Of the limbs of the body, it rules the legs, the knees, the
tendons, the lymph, the phlegm, the bladder, the kidneys, and the internal, hidden organs. Saturn is
indicative of injuries arising from cold and moisture, such as dropsy, neuralgia, gout, cough, dysentery,
hernia, spasms. It is indicative of these syndromes: possession, homosexuality, and depravity. Saturn
makes bachelors and widows, bereavements, and childlessness. It causes violent deaths by water,
strangulation, imprisonment, or dysentery. It also causes falling on the face. It is the star of Nemesis; it is
of the day sect. It is like castor in color and astringent in taste

Vettius Valens' Anthologiae(2nd century CE) is the longest extant astrological work from antiquity. It is unique in several respects: the author was a practicing astrologer; the work includes more than 100 authentic horoscopes of Valens' clients or associates, including his own, which is used as an example many times throughout the work; the work also includes tables and the description of algorithms used by astrologers and mathematicians.

The Anthology as translated by Mart T. Riley (a Latin Professor, not an astrologer) Can be downloaded here (http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf)

Continuing in the same chapter..

The benefic stars which are appropriately and favorably situated bring about their proper effects
according to their own nature and the nature of their sign, with the aspects and conjunctions of each star
being blended. If however they are unfavorably situated, they are indicative of reversals. In the same way
even the malefic stars, when they are operative in appropriate places in their own sect, are bestowers of good
and indicative of the greatest positions and success; when they are inoperative, they bring about disasters
and accusations.
With Love
Eelco

BeastOfBologna
21st May 2020, 17:58
damn, that's harsh...too bad he misspelled self-deprecating... :)

I guess the translator knows Latin better than English :)

Catsquotl
21st May 2020, 18:08
damn, that's harsh...too bad he misspelled self-deprecating... :)

I guess the translator knows Latin better than English :)

self-depreciating or self-de·pre·ci·a·tive
[ self-di-pree-shee-ey-ting, self- ]

ANyhoe..
I liked the continued paragraph, where benefics can turn bad and malefics actually can do some good.

WIth Love
Eelco

Catsquotl
24th May 2020, 07:54
As a final installment of beginnings of a deep dive I present 2 rather long podcasts/vids on the significations of the houses.
From a contemporary perspective that's 3 quarts of the whole of lets say astrology fundamentals

The whole would include aspects as well.

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And the other(s) 6 houses.

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Enjoy.

WIth Love
Eelco

Catsquotl
19th June 2020, 14:28
Another look at the 2nd half of 2020.
by austin goppock and gordon white.

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Dreamtimer
19th June 2020, 17:49
I've enjoyed the two of them together, thanks. :thup:

Catsquotl
21st June 2020, 08:53
https://i.postimg.cc/RC2vmG5J/cfgkb6.jpg

Father's day.. more gifts to study

Dreamtimer
21st June 2020, 09:57
I think you'll get to the bottom of at least one of those. ;) Happy Father's Day.

Catsquotl
1st July 2020, 04:38
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It's a long one.
The first hour and 28 minutes are conversation.
Then they get into the forecast for July proper, if you want to skip to that.