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Sammy
24th May 2019, 16:25
I tried to think of how I could create a "topically unrestricted" thread and thus the title of this thread.

Make sure not to interpret the previous statement to imply that the moderation of this forum is inflexible when veering off topic in most threads. In fact, my experience here is that there's a great deal of flexibility allowed in all sorts of threads along these lines. Still, I felt that if I created a "topic-less thread" with my name in the title, that would clear the way for what hopefully will follow.

And so having said all the above, I would have to be ready to have this thread totally derailed from any mini-topic trend that may erupt on it and so all I ask is that if this is so done, that its not done for the purpose of shutting down the conversation of the moment... whatever micro-topic might be currently under discussion.

Aragorn
24th May 2019, 17:00
I tried to think of how I could create a "topically unrestricted" thread and thus the title of this thread.

Make sure not to interpret the previous statement to imply that the moderation of this forum is inflexible when veering off topic in most threads. In fact, my experience here is that there's a great deal of flexibility allowed in all sorts of threads along these lines. Still, I felt that if I created a "topic-less thread" with my name in the title, that would clear the way for what hopefully will follow.

And so having said all the above, I would have to be ready to have this thread totally derailed from any mini-topic trend that may erupt on it and so all I ask is that if this is so done, that its not done for the purpose of shutting down the conversation of the moment... whatever micro-topic might be currently under discussion.

This seems like a very good candidate for the Topical Musings category, and given that you yourself don't have a thread in there yet, I'll move it there. :)

Sammy
24th May 2019, 18:03
Thank you, Aragorn... ok here we go - (based on my discovery of this thread (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12908-Misinformation-Alt-Right-Propaganda-Here-we-go-Globalises-monetise-climate-change-hoax)) -

ohhhh and before I do (as some around the forum world already know to some extent), I am funded by dead people. It is just enough funding that at age 61 I am essentially retired. Would I do "work" for money? It would all and only depend on the work as the last project I was involved with was immersed in an industry that is inherently parasitical ("soul sucking") and I simply had enough. I made a decision on or about May 1, 2019 from the "one life / material realm" level of my total being - a decision I made with my (theoretically derived and hoped for) "soul" in mind - that I would not involve myself any further in this particular lifetime (and hopefully, if there be more, any other lifetime) - whether paid or not - in anything which I did not believe with all my heart was "good for" others.

So before I comment (take the bait hook line and sinker), I wanted to make sure that the following statement was made and clear and hopefully believed. I am not paid by anyone to say (write) anything. I am not involved with any group whereby that involvement may push me to make statements it could be perceived by the reader were... pushed for me to make.

Hopefully this is clear and additionally, hopefully believed.

OK so...

I wish to make a comment as to what I have discovered of late to be a "go to" tactic of so many "out there" that somehow achieve some level of attention from the public (and this can include anything from Youtube to MSNBC or the Washington Examiner or farcebook (as examples) or a blog posted on the internet – a blog somehow discovered or recommended by another or mini-micro-forum celebrities (I might be one haha) that frequent (from time to time even with a break here or there) one of a zillion forums like this, etc.... and that is -

I so often find out that what "an individual" accuses another (or others) of doing, they are actually involved in doing themselves and usually far more insidiously. It is a clever tactic. And it appears to me that there is something terribly unfortunate about this tactic. The average human reacts by defending themselves. Once that happens, others who may not necessarily be consciously involved in a conspiratorial way but who happen to gravitate (and most specifically, emotionally and at times quite consciously) to what they sense is "shared agendas and goals," quickly jump on the attack bandwagon which results in a cyber-gang up on the target that had the courage to defend themselves – a target that the original finger pointer often intentionally attacked and who may actually have financial interest in attacking. They may actually be paid to do so! WoW! How ironic when an attacker accuses someone of being paid to say what they say or write what they write when they are being paid to do so themselves? But really folks... how would we know? Well, sometimes we do. "The truth always finds its way out, even years and years and years later. The truth always prevails." Tyler Hamilton (see here (https://www.storemypic.com/image/truth-always-finds-its-way-out-even-years-and-years-and.m4Cr)).

In fact, at the heart of my decision to walk away from these forums when I did (about 1.5 years ago) had everything to do with being threatened by a forum community member in this very way, though I am all but certain they were on no one’s payroll in this case. I might add that if it were not for having the additional, convenient excuse I needed to put all my focus in a work project, I might not have had the strength and discipline to pull away from the desire to defend myself. But the matter wasn’t (and still isn’t) that simple. There was one other factor - in fact, the convincing factor.

This other factor that prevented me from taking on the threat in a public way. And I now see it as the most insidious factor of all... that being the pact that forms between two people when they become friends and at some point in the friendship, one or the other (and perhaps both) reveal something about themselves or, reveal an experience they had whereby they wish for the experience to remain private information. In this case, my defense would require some exposure of that "experience" which they wish to remain private. A true Catch 22.

To further expand on this… What ended up being the irony of ironies was that (and still is that) my defense would require this exposure (to some minor extent) of this seemingly innocuous but actually, because the heart of the story involved the development of my theories about synchronicity, I would have to reveal the completely integral relationships and experiences which alone appear to me (and likely others) to be a quite incredible set of synchronicities which my defense requires to be made "public."

Ha-ha... the irony of it all. Here I found myself (about two years ago) in the midst of presenting a view/opinion about the phenomena... a view/opinion that I have yet ever to encounter, a view/opinion I believe would be resisted by a great number of bona-fide experiencers of synchronicity, thus majorly controversial... again - a view/opinion I have yet to come across from any other researcher or (sometimes self determined) "expert" on the phenomena of synchronicity but which might fit right in with the cutting edge considerations as to the true nature of consciousness (I almost wanted to write the word with the Big "C"), and suddenly the very method I chose to prove up the obstacles I face about the theory ended up entrapping me in the most impossible way and involved an absolutely impossible set of "coincidences" - synchronicities - (Synchronicity attempting to hide the inner workings of synchronicity? Synchronicity conspiring with 'itself' to prevent the revelation that “the signs” read and interpreted by experiencers are not necessarily “messages from the Universe?" Messages providing definitive confirmation of that which may only be a wish to be true by the experiencer?) …for it all to end up as it did where I found myself in a prison where the bars that kept me trapped are the structures that hold together what others but most importantly... myself refer to as - "one's own personal integrity" is massively ironic. (ohhh but I started the paragraph that way).

The choice was to defend or perform a series of defensive actions which would cost a friendship and likely cause damage to what decency I had to my reputation (if any was still left – an example would be “the Shaneolites”) in a world of cyber-friends... a [B]grey world where some of these cyber-friendships were one act away (often talked about and in some cases planed) from becoming fully consummated by "meeting in the flesh."

I would be lying if I did not consider the writing of this post as an act of “toe-dipping” where it could go one of three ways – I either drop it here and now (nothing has been exposed of any substantive nature), somehow obtain the permission of my friend that I could now “tell the story” (where I would be willing to provide the text to him in advance for approval and possibly for editing as long as the critical details remain) or just take the risk that my friend had grown some “cojones” and/or didn’t give a damn anymore (the actual best possibility of the three).

sooooo…. I will now go back to the very subject that stimulated me to write for the last few hours presents (no, which forces me into) the task of having to write even more – That which this thread (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12908-Misinformation-Alt-Right-Propaganda-Here-we-go-Globalises-monetise-climate-change-hoax) points to.

Sammy
24th May 2019, 18:44
I decided to start "by picking up the ball" from here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12908-Misinformation-Alt-Right-Propaganda-Here-we-go-Globalises-monetise-climate-change-hoax?p=842010644&viewfull=1#post842010644)

I notice that the OP started off with a statement that is clearly an opinion. I believe the original title may have been - "Here we go . Globalises monetise climate change hoax" which I would consider to be an assertion based on an opinion. The writer (the now Permanently Banned) Christopher (I am curious as to why he was not just banned but permanently banned and so I would imagine this forum had, what many would agree would be, just cause) then seemed to quote (just my guess) a news item he found on the internet (just my guess).

Now I can imagine that "the global warming is man made and killing the planet swiftly" pundits (don't make the mistake of guessing where I personally stand on the matter as of today) would react as opposed to respond but my hope was that there would be response and I soon discovered it was just reaction. At least the very first response because I wish to pick the ball up there.

First, I readily admit that in my absence, a great deal of history occurred and that may have a great deal to do with the replies I saw that followed, but I am dismayed because I so badly seek mature, healthy discourse and nothing that followed appeared to be anything remotely resembling such.

I remember the days on this forum where the rules were adjusted to deter ad hominems and yet what followed the OP seemed nothing but.

Let's look at just the first comment (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12908-Misinformation-Alt-Right-Propaganda-Here-we-go-Globalises-monetise-climate-change-hoax?p=842008441&viewfull=1#post842008441) - "Jesus H. Christ...who is paying you to say things that any decent human would find completely shameful."

First there's the use of an expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_H._Christ) which "...is typically uttered in anger, surprise or frustration..."

Then there is an insinuation which borders on being an accusation.

And then there is the last resort of "shaming."

There is so many options for a far more productive response. I was very surprised to see this here. Again, I may be missing history, but I am wondering if "having doubts about the commonly purported (and believed) truth about a.) the degree to which "man's activities" increase the rate of a climate change transition, b.) what that transition is headed towards and c.) what might that future look like is automatically something that could be labeled "alt-right" which by so doing doesn't exactly nail down what may actually be the premise(s) for such a statement and thus then, makes it real hard to counter.

I am already a wee bit disillusioned but I have to lay blame at my own feet if I become so quickly disillusioned because to become so may have a great deal to do with predetermined expectations... I had returned expecting better.

Its funny how when writing a post one can come upon their own answers. I see it this very moment. Expectations versus wishes and desires. My wish and desire was for adult, mutually respectful discourse. To expect such though... that's my error and I can only blame myself. But also perhaps, I just stumbled upon the one thread (which maybe involved a "bad guy" OP poster) and much of the rest of this forum emulates my hope, wish and desire.

Gosh, I sure hope so.

Aragorn
24th May 2019, 18:47
Considering the built-in disclaimer about potential and possibly intentional randomness in this thread, I'm going to comment on just these two little snippets. :)


[...] I wish to make a comment as to what I have discovered of late to be a "go to" tactic of so many "out there" that somehow achieve some level of attention from the public (and this can include anything from Youtube to MSNBC or the Washington Examiner or farcebook (as examples) or a blog posted on the internet – a blog somehow discovered or recommended by another or mini-micro-forum celebrities (I might be one haha) that frequent (from time to time even with a break here or there) one of a zillion forums like this, etc.... and that is -

I so often find out that what "an individual" accuses another (or others) of doing, they are actually involved in doing themselves and usually far more insidiously. It is a clever tactic. [...]

While it is true that for some people, this would be a conscious tactic, it is my own observation that sadly enough, many (if not most) people are doing this entirely subconsciously, courtesy of their detachment from their role in reality and ─ indeed ─ from their own Self. It is almost as if most people are simply inert but self-biased spectators to their existence. They see the splinter in somebody else's eye, but they completely miss the beam in their own.


This other factor that prevented me from taking on the threat in a public way. And I now see it as the most insidious factor of all... that being the pact that forms between two people when they become friends and at some point in the friendship, one or the other (and perhaps both) reveal something about themselves or, reveal an experience they had whereby they wish for the experience to remain private information. In this case, my defense would require some exposure of that "experience" which they wish to remain private. A true Catch 22. [...]

I have found myself in similar situations on a few occasions, and I believe that this particular conundrum might be intended ─ by the universe ─ as more of a challenge than as an obstacle. Because ─ at least, in my own experience, and yours may of course vary ─ a situation like that cannot continue to persist and must eventually come to some kind of resolution, whereby you then need to reveal whatever you need to reveal in order to protect yourself and/or someone else. As if the universe is coercing you to throw the cards out on the table in order to force everyone to face the truth about themselves. :hmm:

Feel free to comment on that, but don't let my short interlude derail your, um, rail-less thread, Brother. :ttr:

Aragorn
24th May 2019, 19:23
[...] (I am curious as to why he was not just banned but permanently banned and so I would imagine this forum had, what many would agree would be, just cause) [...]

Ah yes, this is one of the things that changed during your absence, but I can assure you that there's nothing nefarious going on with that. :)

See, earlier, we didn't have a distinction yet between temporarily banned and permanently banned members. Any "normal" ban was always of the permanent type, but it didn't say so yet underneath the member's name. However, given that some members have been temporarily banned ─ either by direct staff action or because they had gathered enough infraction points for themselves to trigger an automatic temporary ban ─ I have split up the Banned Members user group into two distinct groups, each with their own "member title", reflecting whether a member was either temporarily banned or permanently banned. So that in itself was only an administrative change.


[...] First, I readily admit that in my absence, a great deal of history occurred and that may have a great deal to do with the replies I saw that followed, but I am dismayed because I so badly seek mature, healthy discourse and nothing that followed appeared to be anything remotely resembling such.

I remember the days on this forum where the rules were adjusted to deter ad hominems and yet what followed the OP seemed nothing but.

Let's look at just the first comment (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12908-Misinformation-Alt-Right-Propaganda-Here-we-go-Globalises-monetise-climate-change-hoax?p=842008441&viewfull=1#post842008441) - "Jesus H. Christ...who is paying you to say things that any decent human would find completely shameful."

First there's the use of an expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_H._Christ) which "...is typically uttered in anger, surprise or frustration..."

Then there is an insinuation which borders in being an accusation.

And then there is the last resort of "shaming."

There is so many options for a far more productive a response. I was very surprised to see this here. Again, I may be missing history, but I am wondering if "having doubts about the commonly purported (and believed) truth about a.) the degree to which "man's activities" increase the rate of a climate change transition, b.) what that transition is headed towards and c.) what might that future look like is automatically something that could be labeled "alt-right" which by so doing doesn't exactly nail down what may actually be the premise(s) for such a statement and thus then, makes it real hard to counter. [...]

Well, the short answer is that, yes, you have been missing out on a lot. :hmm:

The longer story is that Christopher was both a member here and at Eye-Rise ─ which, completely unrelated to the rest of my reply, has now been down for over a week (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12838-Eye-Rise-is-down-again?p=842010324&viewfull=1#post842010324), and we still don't know what's going on ─ and on both forums, not only did he adopt an ultra-right-wing vantage, thereby citing tabloids and right-wing news sources as an excuse for posting slander, libel, propaganda and other misinformation, but he was also behaving himself as an utterly pompous narcissist who repeatedly insulted both myself and others out on open threads.

And that is why Christopher received the comments he did on that particular thread, as well as that it was ultimately also the reason why he was permanently banned, both here and at Eye-Rise. We simply ran out of patience with the guy, and he never even deserved any of it in the first place.

NotAPretender
24th May 2019, 22:22
:) Looks like I made the hit parade. Unfortunately, the Ad Hominem was the formula for the day. We shouldn't miss the fact that 'he wanted to play'...and I'm always game. That is why it started like that. Would anybody and this was my point from much earlier on in our ongoing 'debate', that was serious about discourse much less civil discourse start with a statement that in fact was something a teenage solipsist would be embarrassed to present. That was his 'style' and I replied in kind. Both statements are pretty outrageous...but it was fun nevertheless.

Is he your friend? I thought he was a plant 'seeded' by what's her name...Turiya (whose white supremacist attitude seeped from every pore...and that isn't an ad hominem, that is an admitted truth)...my bad, I guess. :)


For whatever it's worth: I'm not strident, at all, regarding global warming...it's just another reference point for me. It is the mindset/mind of those that refuse to consider reality when formulating their world view...that is what is distressing, frustrating, and yes angering to me.

Aragorn
24th May 2019, 22:48
[...] I thought he was a plant 'seeded' by what's her name...Turiya [...]

turiya is a male, NotAPretender, but I don't think there was any connection. turiya is a US American, and Christopher is British.

We can see our members' IP addresses, remember? ;)

Aianawa
24th May 2019, 22:52
Two important past members both, imo.

NotAPretender
24th May 2019, 22:59
yeah...the world moves though... :)

I thanked your post because it's you, Aianawa...very few would get that much respect from me...

Aianawa
24th May 2019, 23:07
You are not that important NAP in the scheme of things imo, as I have said before, you NAP I enjoy when you are you and I tire of you when your conditioning appears, a nicer way of saying this may be that I love n respect you dear soul, as anyone choosing to be here especially in these our times is indeed a great energy n soul. I know my observations sometimes can irritate and I withhold them often, so thankyou for the opportunity NAP.

NotAPretender
24th May 2019, 23:31
One of us is misunderstanding... :) I never claimed to be important...period...it simply isn't about that...it is much more. But isn't it always true that we never really 'see' each other....

Aragorn
24th May 2019, 23:35
Two important past members both, imo.

Yes, just as important as the plague was. :whstl:

Aianawa
24th May 2019, 23:39
Imo as important as you n NAP in the larger scheme of things imo .

Wind
24th May 2019, 23:49
Everyone and everything has it's role to play.

Aianawa
25th May 2019, 00:07
Indeed Wind, shutting down souls roles by belief trolls molls tearing holes n poking poles, even if a reality needed on behalf of forum, can still be reflected upon for ones own love, triggers n all, imo.

NotAPretender
25th May 2019, 15:02
Everyone and everything has it's role to play.

And what is important...each in their own way...but as Snoop would say...there are two powerful forces at play in the world...just for kicks let's call them Vishnu and Shiva. Preserve and Destroy not in opposition but always at opposite goals. From reading Dr. Strange comic books I came to respect Vishnu and in typical Western fashion I just can't get behind Shiva (programming). It seems Shiva's work in the Western world has lost its way. Destructive versus constructive. In my 'humble' opinion constructive should take precedence.

Sammy
25th May 2019, 17:07
Especially constructive conversation...

And so last night I dared to peek at what might have been the reply's to my posts. Posts whereby I did my best to try and make them in such a way they would not be interpreted as provocations but instead just seen in the same spirit as what were my true goals in making them and that I would be seen as being honest (I did not say "good" or "right" or "correct"), where I laid out my concerns coupled with self-transparency and that my goal was to set the stage for productive, constructive dialogue where eventually I might feel free enough (brave enough?) to actually state where I stand (today - as I always reserve the right to shift my views and even change them completely) in this catch-all "climate change" issue and all the ramifications of how the issue is being presented and propagated.

And so... (drum roll, please) - my much feared "peek" transformed into a rather pleasant surprise - so much so that a tear or two came to my eyes. I was overcome by emotion and thus made the decision it would be best to post the next day (which is now).

And so I will now reply to some of the comments but before I do, because I saw this question from NAP - "Is he your friend?" I felt it most important to answer this one first.

I discovered this thread because I was interested to see where things had gone with "the Watchdog" idea and when I clicked into that area I immediately saw the Sub-Forum (it sort of stands out as it is at the top and is... a sub-forum) - Proven Hoaxes and Misinformation and so I "bit" and this particular thread stood out on the list. - [Misinformation & Alt-Right Propaganda] Here we go . Globalises monetise climate change hoax. Now, because I happen to have my own particular "take" and "personal position" on the massively complex matter lumped under a single (currently popular) title called "Climate Change" (used to be "Global Warming" which is still often resurrected) I decided to read the OP.

His opening statement made it clear that he was laser focused on the hoax aspect and his opinion as to why such would be initiated and promoted. This type of opinion is not all that uncommon. But additionally, it is an opinion held by all sorts of folks, many would not properly be labeled as "alt-right."

I continued to read. It was soon my guess that the rest of the post was a copy/paste of something he came across (a news item) in the internet.

Now that was his entire post.

And this was the first post I ever knowingly read from this poster that was going by the name Christopher. I guess it is possible this poster has used a different name either here or on other forums and that I might have read some. But this was the first (and also last) post I ever read of Christopher's.

In addition, I do not know this poster... or at least I do not think I do. I have to write this caveat because, again, I may have had interactions with the actual "writer" that chose to use the name Christopher, but I don't think so.

In addition, I do not associate with any groups that might remotely be considered "alt-right" by those who actually have the ability and stability to make such calls. Meaning not by the emotionally compromised who might, as an example, consider the fact that I recently brought my step-daughter to the Dallas Police (thus I have been associating with the Dallas Police) because she is currently being harassed by a stalker and things got real weird... ...that this be considered as associating with an "alt-right" group. I mention this example because I have encountered the Dallas Police being labeled "alt-right" on the internet. In fact, someone with that very "belief" (among other beliefs) shot and killed five Dallas Police officers on July 7, 2016. (see here though twistopedia leaves out the "alt-right" reference for the sake of "political correctness."

So I hope that I am believed that I do not know Christopher. So that can eliminate the possibility that he is my friend.

NotAPretender
25th May 2019, 17:16
Interesting Sammy...I think you are a sincere person...sincerity without taint is a very positive characteristic. But Dallas... :) Sorry about your daughter that really sucks and I can feel your pain regarding that. Dallas, on a larger scale is much like Lubbock which is where I went to grad school. Everyone hates everyone. I lived in Fort Worth for a couple of years and I remember driving down I-20 and I-30 watching road rage escalate the closer I got to Dallas. As one co-worker remarked, they started out yelling at one another and by the time one hits Dallas they are shooting at each other.

Just my opinion, of course...

Sammy
25th May 2019, 17:20
[...] I have found myself in similar situations on a few occasions, and I believe that this particular conundrum might be intended ─ by the universe ─ as more of a challenge than as an obstacle. Because ─ at least, in my own experience, and yours may of course vary ─ a situation like that cannot continue to persist and must eventually come to some kind of resolution, whereby you then need to reveal whatever you need to reveal in order to protect yourself and/or someone else. As if the universe is coercing you to throw the cards out on the table in order to force everyone to face the truth about themselves. :hmm:


@ Aragorn - odds are that "the revelations" will occur.

Sammy
25th May 2019, 17:30
Interesting Sammy...I think you are a sincere person...sincerity without taint is a very positive characteristic. But Dallas... :) Sorry about your daughter that really sucks and I can feel your pain regarding that. Dallas, on a larger scale is much like Lubbock which is where I went to grad school. Everyone hates everyone. I lived in Fort Worth for a couple of years and I remember driving down I-20 and I-30 watching road rage escalate the closer I got to Dallas. As one co-worker remarked, they started out yelling at one another and by the time one hits Dallas they are shooting at each other.

Just my opinion, of course...

My experience is quite the opposite. I was born here and raised here yet spent a good 10 years of my life both in other parts of the US and a good 20 years of my life outside the US. I find Dallas one of the more friendly cities on earth. Dallas has also grown to be quite multi-cultural. I only returned to live (primarily) in Dallas 7 years ago and really enjoy being here.

Where are you from, where have you lived and where do you live now, NAP, besides the few places you mentioned above?

Ohhh and my experience with Ft. Worth is very positive. I have lot's of friends over that way and they are definitely a bit more laid back than what I experience in Dallas.

NotAPretender
25th May 2019, 19:59
:) Houston...

Hey Sammy,

ok, you forced me...I have noticed an uptick in basic humanity in Dallas. I think they are in the process of erasing/changing their legacy. I'm always hopeful... :)

I grew up in small town Kansas...almost as bad as Texas....historically. But we do have John Brown... :)

Dreamtimer
29th May 2019, 13:52
And what is important...each in their own way...but as Snoop would say...there are two powerful forces at play in the world...just for kicks let's call them Vishnu and Shiva. Preserve and Destroy not in opposition but always at opposite goals. From reading Dr. Strange comic books I came to respect Vishnu and in typical Western fashion I just can't get behind Shiva (programming). It seems Shiva's work in the Western world has lost its way. Destructive versus constructive. In my 'humble' opinion constructive should take precedence.

It's just like the dude (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/13007-Balance?p=842010591&viewfull=1#post842010591) said, the weeds grow by themselves. It's the garden which we must cultivate. The garden is not anger and hate and fear. Those are the weeds.

Dreamtimer
30th May 2019, 02:09
There are many paths...


I noticed that Christopher made a big deal about my title when I posted the Joe Rogan piece. I didn't respond at the time because it was not worth the effort.

My presentation was neutral. The reason for that is that I am aware of my title and I don't want to push things as if they are authority.

I don't 'advise' people to peruse long posts or threads of mine so as to 'get up to speed' in the conversation. That's not my job. If someone like Christopher is able to think for themselves then my title shouldn't be an issue.

And he lectured us about Agenda 21 as if it's a foreign subject. Divine Feminie certainly made sure it wasn't. I doubt he bothered to even look. He was full of judgement from the get-go.

He showed himself out the door.

Sammy
7th June 2019, 20:43
Man this "global warming" has got to stop!

Ohhhh maybe it did? If so, what did "man" do to make this happen???

https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/07/national-park-glacier-warnings/

Dreamtimer
7th June 2019, 21:04
That was funny, Sammy.

I can't get over the fact that people keep talking about weather and pretending that they're talking about climate.

How can we even discuss humans' (possible) impact when people don't even want to try to understand climate versus weather?

Aianawa
7th June 2019, 21:46
Much imo of both are tied to humanities emotional bodies, micro n macro.

Dreamtimer
7th June 2019, 22:56
Climate and weather are a good micro and macro.

The former happens over minutes/hours, the latter happens over decades/centuries/millenia.

We are but one factor in the cycles of climate.

We should at least be aware of the potential to be a catalyst.

The catalyst doesn't cause the reaction and never would.

However, it can speed a reaction up massively.

This is why catalysts are crucial.

And why we should at least try to be aware of our role rather than be in denial.

Aragorn
8th June 2019, 04:49
I can't get over the fact that people keep talking about weather and pretending that they're talking about climate.

How can we even discuss humans' (possible) impact when people don't even want to try to understand climate versus weather?

Well, the weather is inherently linked to the climate, and disruptions in the overall climatic balance can have sudden and extreme repercussions on the weather, which in turn can feed back onto the larger climatic balance.

They are two sides of the same coin, and they are reciprocating. :hmm:

Dreamtimer
8th June 2019, 05:21
The increase in extreme weather was being predicted when I was a child. This was due to studies of long-term climate change. My dad explained to me that humans had been living in a very nice, gentle climate cycle and that it was going to change. It wasn't framed simply as warming when I was growing up.

Warming was one prediction, and cold was another. Extremes were going to be part of climate change regardless of whether the trends were warm or cold.

And that is how it has been unfolding.

You're right, Aragorn. They do feed on each other, and we may be a catalyst.

What do you think, Sam?

Wind
8th June 2019, 13:36
The weather is related to climate and the climate is related to space weather and the sun.

NotAPretender
8th June 2019, 13:56
The Conversation

Academic rigor, journalistic flair

Climate change is slowing Atlantic currents that help keep Europe warm

Author
Peter T. Spooner
Research Associate in Paleoceanography, UCL

Disclosure statement
Peter T. Spooner receives funding from the EU ATLAS project, an international effort investigating deep-sea ecosystems and their response to ocean change (https://www.eu-atlas.org/).

https://images.theconversation.com/files/214494/original/file-20180412-584-n22937.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&rect=0%2C0%2C1920%2C960&q=45&auto=format&w=1 356&h=668&fit=crop%22

The ocean currents that help warm the Atlantic coasts of Europe and North America have significantly slowed since the 1800s and are at their weakest in 1600 years, according to new research my colleagues and I have conducted. As we’ve set out in a new study in Nature, the weakening of this ocean circulation system may have begun naturally but is probably being continued by climate change related to greenhouse gas emissions.

This circulation is a key player in the Earth’s climate system and a large or abrupt slowdown could have global repercussions. It could cause sea levels on the US east coast to rise, alter European weather patterns or rain patterns more globally, and hurt marine wildlife.

We know that at the end of the last major ice age, rapid fluctuations in the circulation led to extreme climate shifts on a global scale. An exaggerated (but terrifying) example of such a sudden event was portrayed in the 2004 blockbuster film The Day After Tomorrow.

The recent weakening we have found was likely driven by warming in the north Atlantic and the addition of freshwater from increased rainfall and melting ice. It has been predicted many times but, until now, just how much weakening has already occurred has largely remained a mystery. The extent of the changes we have discovered comes as a surprise to many, including myself, and points to significant changes in the future.

The circulation system in question is known as the “Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation” (AMOC). The AMOC is like a giant conveyor belt of water. It transports warm, salty water to the north Atlantic where it gets very cold and sinks. Once in the deep ocean the water flows back southwards and then all around the world’s oceans. This conveyor belt is one of the most important transporters of heat in the climate system and includes the Gulf Stream, known for keeping western Europe warm.

Climate models have consistently predicted that the AMOC will slow down due to greenhouse gas warming and associated changes in the water cycle. Because of these predictions – and the possibility of abrupt climate changes – scientists have monitored the AMOC since 2004 with instruments strung out across the Atlantic at key locations. But to really test the model predictions and work out how climate change is affecting the conveyor we have needed much longer records.

Looking for patterns
To create these records, our research group – led by University College London’s Dr David Thornalley – used the idea that a change in the AMOC has a unique pattern of impact on the ocean. When the AMOC gets weaker, the north-eastern Atlantic Ocean cools and parts of the western Atlantic get warmer by a specific amount. We can look for this pattern in past records of ocean temperature to trace what the circulation was like in the past.

Another study in the same issue of Nature, led by researchers at the University of Potsdam in Germany, used historical observations of temperature to check the fingerprint. They found that the AMOC had reduced in strength by around 15% since 1950, pointing to the role of human-made greenhouse gas emissions as the primary cause.

In our paper, which also forms part of the EU ATLAS project, we found the same fingerprint. But instead of using historical observations we used our expertise in past climate research to go back much further in time. We did this by combining known records of the remains of tiny marine creatures found in deep-sea mud. Temperature can be worked out by looking at the amounts of different species and the chemical compositions of their skeletons.

We were also able to directly measure the past deep ocean current speeds by looking at the mud itself. Larger grains of mud imply faster currents, while smaller grains mean the currents were weaker. Both techniques point to a weakening of the AMOC since about 1850, again by about 15% to 20%. Importantly, the modern weakening is very different to anything seen over the last 1,600 years, pointing to a combination of natural and human drivers.

The difference in timing of the start of the AMOC weakening in the two studies will require more scientific attention. Despite this difference, both of the new studies raise important questions regarding whether climate models simulate the historical changes in ocean circulation, and whether we need to revisit some of our future projections.

However, each additional long record makes it easier to evaluate how well the models simulate this key element of the climate system. In fact, evaluating models against these long records may be a crucial step if we hope to accurately predict possible extreme AMOC events and their climate impacts.

Sammy
11th June 2019, 02:09
I believe climate exists and changes... and thus, I do not deny climate change.

I am not a climate alarmist and I pretty much stay away from climate alarmism in any form it manifests.

I don't deny the capacity for human beings to take advantage of the emotionally vulnerable so they can gain power and often along with that, wealth.

I am not a scientist, phyicist, climatologist, meteorologist or any other "ist" (I guess you get the gist). I have developed a little street savvy over the years and with regards to the alarmism, my intuition tells me its a scam. In addition, when I use logic as to considering who to believe, I am wary of those who are backed by the elite in one form or another (and it is these who make up 97% of the alarmists)... as I think the elite have already won anyways and all they're doing is refining their position. But I also don't think its wise to believe "big oil" mouth pieces either. Still... put a gun to my head and I bet that though man can surely impact the climate... to the extent that Mother Earth can't take care of Herself (and any nuisances) fine and well on Her own? I don't buy it.

Let me ask folks here something. Does anyone here actually think they can change the course of the obvious path humanity is traveling as viewed from the perspective of their physical continuance? I don't but I also won't be here after this go round (as long as I have a say so at the level of my soul).

Dreamtimer
11th June 2019, 03:22
Are there odds on the human cause of climate change? I wonder if it's even possible to figure out odds for that.


Humans will continue. Our civilizations will end. It seems to have happened over and over again.

I personally believe that most of us will continue in spirit/conscious form as that form came first and takes precedence in terms of existence.

The earth always survives. I doubt she wants any of her children to die in cataclysm. Nonetheless, it happens.


In his interview (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12172-Our-Sun?p=842011232&viewfull=1#post842011232) with Greg Carlson, Ben Davidson of Suspicious Observers said that he sees intelligence in the behavior of the sun. This is a man who is taking a scientific approach. A man who doesn't let that get in the way of seeing the bigger picture which goes beyond science.

Aragorn
11th June 2019, 03:23
... as I think the elite have already won anyways and all they're doing is refining their position.

I'm inclined to agree with that.


But I also don't think its wise to believe "big oil" mouth pieces either.

Correct. Big Oil™ and Big Coal™. And nuclear power may be clean on account of emissions and exempt from directly influencing the climate, but we all know it has its own issues ─ the risk of nuclear meltdowns or explosions as has happened in Chernobyl or catastrophes like the one in Fukushima ─ which was of course the result of damage caused by a tsunami, but nevertheless ─ as well as the risk of contamination of the environment by radiation leaking through cracks in the housing of aging reactors, and finally, the problem of how to get rid of the nuclear waste.


[...] Let me ask folks here something. Does anyone here actually think they can change the course of the obvious path humanity is traveling as viewed from the perspective of their physical continuance?

Personally, I think that if there has ever been a chance to do it, then we've certainly missed the boat. :hmm:


I don't but I also won't be here after this go round (as long as I have a say so at the level of my soul).

Ditto. ;)

Sammy
11th June 2019, 03:50
Are there odds on the human cause of climate change? I wonder if it's even possible to figure out odds for that.


Humans will continue. Our civilizations will end. It seems to have happened over and over again.

I personally believe that most of us will continue in spirit/conscious form as that form came first and takes precedence in terms of existence.

The earth always survives. I doubt she wants any of her children to die in cataclysm. Nonetheless, it happens.


In his interview (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12172-Our-Sun?p=842011232&viewfull=1#post842011232) with Greg Carlson, Ben Davidson of Suspicious Observers said that he sees intelligence in the behavior of the sun. This is a man who is taking a scientific approach. A man who doesn't let that get in the way of seeing the bigger picture which goes beyond science.

I don't think its about the odds... I think its about the degree to which man actually makes a difference. If the actuality of the impact is, in reality, less harmful than the economic atomic bomb that various "green new deals" would clearly cause (and I believe the odds highly favor this and more importantly to a massive degree) then when you couple that with the track record of the various actors pushing the (likely) scam... because the actual benefits of fossil fuels versus realistic alternatives (and anything realistic in the pipeline which is far, far from the dreams of the exuberant and energized AOC types) is a fact - especially the expansion of life with regards to longevity... all in all, it's a no brainer IMO.

Having said all that - do I think humanity holds within its various expressions the types of humans who could sell the rest of the Earth, all life (including humanity and all our children) down the drain to make a few bucks? Yes... and so it's really pretty impossible for me to actually have (much less share) an truly informed opinion. I guess I just like to type.

Apologies (and I really mean this) for my cynicism. I strive to be hopeful, I strive to be optimistic... and then I have a weird day like today and... maybe I should stay away from forums on days like this (though perhaps you are reading me in my most honest state).

Dreamtimer
11th June 2019, 04:42
I prefer the honest state because then a person knows what they are dealing with.

Neither the green new deal or agenda 21 are going to have time to have any impact. The only thing we have time for is to prepare ourselves.


Many many people spent many years telling me that solar power would never work and batteries would never work and both are now working just swimmingly. I personally have no reason to have faith in the fossil fuel industry. Can you spell P L A S T I C?

It's a petroleum product which will be with us for a very long time.

Oh wait, here comes a cataclysm.

Time for massive recycling on a global scale.

Are we ready?

Sammy
11th June 2019, 16:59
I prefer the honest state because then a person knows what they are dealing with.

Neither the green new deal or agenda 21 are going to have time to have any impact. The only thing we have time for is to prepare ourselves.


Many many people spent many years telling me that solar power would never work and batteries would never work and both are now working just swimmingly. I personally have no reason to have faith in the fossil fuel industry. Can you spell P L A S T I C?

It's a petroleum product which will be with us for a very long time.

Oh wait, here comes a cataclysm.

Time for massive recycling on a global scale.

Are we ready?

Solar and battery are nowhere near economically competitive and additionally, there are no technological breakthroughs on the horizon which suggest they could compete anytime soon.

yet...

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/09/fully-recyclable-plastics-breakthrough-this-could-change-everything/

and...

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/breakthrough-discovery-plastic-holy-grail-recycling/story?id=62884758

and noted here -

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190507110452.htm

so there's a real answer to the plastics issue...

Are you aware of the power consumption costs it takes to make windmills and solar panels? They are so significant that the overall economic impact in converting to renewables would devastate the economies of the world.

I, personally, would love to see our world have the technological capability of moving off fossil fuels (coal and atomic included)... and I also believe it could happen and would happen (if we survive ourselves - meaning if we don't nuke the planet into oblivion), but the reality is that fossil fuels have dozens of generations of reserves available before humanity is forced to shift to other solutions.

Aragorn
12th June 2019, 05:50
Solar and battery are nowhere near economically competitive and additionally, there are no technological breakthroughs on the horizon which suggest they could compete anytime soon. [...]

I wouldn't be so sure of that, Brother. There was an interesting article on Slashdot (https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/06/11/2246257/us-report-finds-sky-is-the-limit-for-geothermal-energy-beneath-us) this morning about how geothermal energy could radically overturn things. :) :like:

Elen
12th June 2019, 06:02
I wouldn't be so sure of that, Brother. There was an interesting article on Slashdot (https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/19/06/11/2246257/us-report-finds-sky-is-the-limit-for-geothermal-energy-beneath-us) this morning about how geothermal energy could radically overturn things. :) :like:

My brother in Norway is using this technology for approx. 15 years or so now, with great advantage. The colder the weather...the warmer the house. :thup:

Dreamtimer
12th June 2019, 15:45
There have just been several acres of solar panels installed in our area.

Out here in California there are solar panels all over the new million and up homes being built south of San Diego.

The energy we use will be directly related to what people want and demand.

Until nature changes things for us.

Sammy
13th June 2019, 18:38
There have just been several acres of solar panels installed in our area.

Out here in California there are solar panels all over the new million and up homes being built south of San Diego.

The energy we use will be directly related to what people want and demand.

Until nature changes things for us.

It is important to do the research with regards to what it takes to make a solar panel... ie. look at the potential "bad" that is caused in aquiring that which is needed to make a solar panel. This is what I was referring to.

Sammy
13th June 2019, 18:46
BUT! Here I am engaging in a discussion that is truly a waste of your time (and mine). And I don't insinuate this based on "me" thinking "I am right" or "me" thinking others are either less right or outright wrong... no, no, no...

I say this because I am firmly convinced that as long as the vast majority of mankind either (knowingly or not) base their world view on materialism or succumb to religious interpretations of that which otherwise fits well within monistic idealism... where pure monistic idealism remains a minor nuisance to those who are consciously manipulating our world and have no personal conscience as to how all that plays out for the rest of life (outside of their group we often call "the elite)... the slow crawl towards the ultimate goals of the elites will continue without major interruption.

I prefer to see a world where humanity obtains their power from renewables and where humanity leaves as small a footprint as possible with regards to how we obtain our power needs and as to what we discard as waste and how we discard it. Wanting this is one thing, betting that this will happen is another. Somewhere in between is practicality which has to consider the real power of the elites. Sorry to say.

Sammy
13th June 2019, 18:52
...so switching gears (sort of) I came upon this -

A materialist is like someone who says, “The oceans are made of salt,” and when pressed about the presence of water say, “Water comes from the salt.”

Dreamtimer
14th June 2019, 05:01
I like the new direction of desalination using amines. Aragorn posted about it. (it's very late and I'm sleepy and can't find the link right now).

Aragorn
14th June 2019, 05:58
I like the new direction of desalination using amines. Aragorn posted about it. (it's very late and I'm sleepy and can't find the link right now).

Would this (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12981-Scientists-discover-a-game-changing-way-to-remove-salt-from-water) happen to be ye thread of which thou speakest? :ttr:

Sammy
14th June 2019, 18:18
Well - my little statement was actually an attempt at a metaphor. That which I was pointing to was based on that which NAP had once mentioned - the recent book by Mark Gober - An End to Upside Down Thinking.

If there was a single crusade I could embark upon (as if the world has not seen enough crusades) it would be dedicated to assisting humanity to shift the predominant metaphysical, cosmological world-view from materiaism to idealism (and the particular form of such... monistic idealism).

The metaphor was pointing out how materialists believe that consciousness is created by and from the individual brains of individual beings. That is (to me) like saying "In the oceans, water comes from the salt," which we know is absurd. So my metaphor was suggesting that materialism is an absurd world view.

Again, I am sad I cannot locate the thread (or the section of the thread) where (it is claimed) Giovonni first suggested the above referenced book.

If I had located the post I would have quoted the post in that very thread and kick started this discussion there. Oh well, maybe one day I will find it. I have more to add if the discussion goes further.

Wind
14th June 2019, 19:25
The only thing that rubs me the wrong way with the materialists is that they think that they know the ultimate truth while actually their belief system is just based on false assumptions. Yet that is the dominant worldview these days and is taken as the norm, such is the sad state of affairs. I often think that I was born too early, on the ultimate age of ignorance. I suppose everything is teaching us though, like these times too. There will be a time when people will truly know the truth again.

Sammy
14th June 2019, 19:38
as Mark Gober speaks about here -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=70&v=Ikaj7ofA3dk

Sammy
14th June 2019, 20:38
and gosh... I find myself sometimes "put off" by those who just throw up video after video but man, oh man... this one has been outstanding -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgNDr56gM-A

NotAPretender
14th June 2019, 22:59
I don't expect anyone to get excited about this but I started practicing Christian Meditation following an audible book from this guy:

Christian Meditation (Audiobook) by James Finley. He spent his early days living as a monk and then later transitioned to earn a PhD in psychology. It is the kind of thing I can trust... :)

Dreamtimer
15th June 2019, 15:26
As I recall, NAP first brought up Gober and the book on his Chaos thread. It did not have its own thread. I did a search, found some vids, and posted one.


...or not. (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12679-All-Down-The-Line?p=842003844&viewfull=1#post842003844)

It was near the beginning of Gio's thread All Down the Line.

My recall ain't the best right now. I'm distracted by issues with my Dad.

Sammy
15th June 2019, 23:19
This post is completely irrelevant to everything written in this thread prior...

But it will soon make sense as to why I posted it (don't you just love mysteries? ....mmmmhhhhhwwaaaaa hahah ha)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam1fbQmA_s

Dreamtimer
16th June 2019, 10:33
Ever since I left the desert, I've either lived near a river or a bay. Chattahoochee, American, Narragansett, Chesapeake, 100 Acre Cove, Patuxent, Patapsco... Most of those names came from the First Americans.

But I never lived near a River City. Riverside, yes.

NotAPretender
16th June 2019, 16:13
My hometown's nickname was River city because it was surrounded by two rivers...The Cottonwood and the Neosho. It was said that because of that we were safe from a direct hit from Tornados...Down the road that proved to be a false sense of security.

In Topeka Kansas there was another such myth called, Burnett's Mound. The theory was that because the city lay in the protection of the mound it was safe. Also not true...the city was devastated twice within a few years.

Ain't no escaping nature here in these United States. In my estimation the safest place is in New Mexico and they have the desert and sinkholes there.

Sammy
16th June 2019, 20:06
You know... there's something about this place... There's this strange sense of... honorability - that's the word. That's what I feel underpins this forum.

Aragorn
17th June 2019, 08:09
You know... there's something about this place... There's this strange sense of... honorability - that's the word. That's what I feel underpins this forum.

Thank you for saying that, Sam. Your words mean a lot to us. :h5: :smile2:

Dreamtimer
17th June 2019, 11:51
:cool::love::)

Sammy
18th June 2019, 13:18
I am grateful that TOT has allowed me to make this thread such that I am enabled to jump from one thing to another and so here's the next jump.

I recently reacted [overreacted? probably, yes] to something posted on a different thread where I broke one of the main "agreements" of the original Four Agreements (https://experiencelife.com/article/the-four-agreements/) - The 2nd Agreement - Don’t Take Anything Personally.

My reaction created a micro-drama event where it might appear "I won." Well, today I believe that not only did I lose, everyone I dragged into the drama event lost too. The fact is that I clearly have an affinity to drama. Knowing this, admitting this is one thing. Making a core change within that eliminates the identified character trait of "drama queen" (not meaning to offend any queens but if a queen finds themselves offended, I refer you back to the 2nd agreement) is something else. I am not there. And here is why.

There's something else known as "acting out" when the action/reaction of "acting out" is linked to a previous action which in reality is a non-action action... the action of suppression of traumas. In other words, by NOT dealing with a trauma, that trauma becomes suppressed. And often what results is that the suppressed trauma creates a splitting off of one's mind. The primary operator hums along as if all is well. Yet lurking in a hidden corner of one's individuated mind is this buried nuclear device which one day may go off.

So on the one hand I am advised not to take things personally and yet, unless one has integrated this agreement at the deeper and more powerful level of their being (which results in what we call "maturity"), suppressing these perceived hurts almost always ends up bad.

So as many here may begin to "see" by now, I post on these forums in part to assist myself with processing. Since I entered the community in 2012, I have built relationships. In addition, I have found myself in circumstances where some of these relationships blow up. In some of those cases that this has happened, I initiated these blow ups. I could have handled things better and a few, far better. My desire to explore, my curiosity... leads me to take risks and sometimes I end up suffering but worse, it may cause others to suffer. Does "good intentions" get me off the hook? Does entering into relationships with pure intentions get one off the hook? Can this be chalked up to innocence or naivety and that then makes it pardonable?

And so, here I find myself once again in the strangest of circumstances where, my most favorite subject, synchronicity is at the heart of it all... but in the darkest of ways.

Aragorn
18th June 2019, 13:55
[...] My desire to explore, my curiosity... leads me to take risks and sometimes I end up suffering but worse, it may cause others to suffer. Does "good intentions" get me off the hook? Does entering into relationships with pure intentions get one off the hook? Can this be chalked up to innocence or naivety and that then makes it pardonable? [...]

I don't think the answer to that question would be a matter of black & white. I think that, first and foremost, it's a matter of perspective ─ by which I do not mean a change in your own perspective, but rather that it's a matter of both your own perspective and that of anyone else who gets involved ─ and that there are many grey scales in between the extremes of "getting you off the hook" and "not getting you off the hook".

There are various degrees of accountability, and in addition to that ─ but I acknowledge that this really does depend on whom the other person is ─ the other person may be more forgiving toward you than you would be willing to forgive yourself. And strangely enough ─ or ironically, if you will ─ it is my experience that for the vast majority of the people "out there", forgiving themselves comes a lot easier than forgiving someone else.

Finding it hard to forgive oneself is a trait of the conscientious and honorable. Those who forgive themselves easily have far less of a conscience than they like believing, if they even care at all ─ we do after all live in a world that feeds and actively breeds sociopathy. Likewise, those who find it easier to forgive someone else are the people who posses a great deal of love within them, and perhaps a stronger capability of empathizing with the person seeking forgiveness, and how they came to make the mistakes for which they seek forgiveness. Those who find it hard to forgive someone else are commonly the reactionary and selfish people ─ again, because this world breeds narcissists.

Narcissistic sociopaths have greater chances at survival in a competition-driven society model, and that's why the society model itself stimulates the development of narcissism and sociopathy. But it is exactly this very competition-driven society model that is The Wrong Path™, and that will lead to humanity's demise ─ and if certain history scholars and certain explanations of archeological anomalies are to be believed, then it won't be the first time, and probably not the last either, unless there will be absolutely no survivors anymore this time around.

Those of us with a conscience are slowly becoming a statistical minority. And politically ─ by which I mean "our ability to have an effect on how society is being run by The Powers That Be™" ─ we have so far always been a minority. Color me a pessimist, but at this point in time, my opinion is that we have no other choice anymore but to suffer mankind's stupidity, greed, decadence and sociopathy, and that the only difference we can still make is at the individual level, where we can alleviate some of the suffering for the ones we care about. To be a friend, to be an adviser, to be the shoulder for our loved ones to cry on.

Because there's no way we're going to be able to change how this perverse world operates. Doing so would take nothing short of a revolution, and there are only two ways of bringing about a revolution. The first way is to set an example and be the change we wish to see. But that has already proven futile, especially when the world is being run by oligarchs and megalomaniacs, and the rest of the population has sunken into apathy and navel-staring. The second way is through an armed revolution, but that is not our style. An armed revolution often turns out just as bad as the evil it seeks to overthrow, and we're not that violent. We're not willing to draw blood or pick up arms against the people who are supposed to be our brothers and sisters in humanity.

Hmm... Now I have the feeling that I'm derailing the topic, as the post I'm replying to was supposed to be about your conscience. :hmm: But then again, it's all connected. :)

Elen
19th June 2019, 06:34
The Four Agreements are an elevated level of thinking, Sammy. Living up to them is quite a Nobel ambition! Kudos to you. :tiphat::like:

Dreamtimer
19th June 2019, 15:25
My desire to explore, my curiosity... leads me to take risks and sometimes I end up suffering but worse, it may cause others to suffer. Does "good intentions" get me off the hook? Does entering into relationships with pure intentions get one off the hook? Can this be chalked up to innocence or naivety and that then makes it pardonable?

What makes things 'pardonable', imo, is your own attitude and future actions. Do you learn and adjust? Do you make excuses and blame others and keep on doing the same thing?

This life is a risk-taking endeavor, imo. We come here, we can't recall our consciousness from before, we risk much facing earthly challenges.

In the end, how do you balance out? Are you proud of yourself? Do you have regrets? Did you learn?

Personally, I think you're doing a good job.

"Don't let the bastards get you down."

see here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/7418-The-One-Truth-s-Lounge-Thread?p=842011546&viewfull=1#post842011546).


Would this (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12981-Scientists-discover-a-game-changing-way-to-remove-salt-from-water) happen to be ye thread of which thou speakest? :ttr:

Yes, indeed. I talked to my son and his girlfriend about it and they had some scientific understanding and were discussing the merits. It was fun to watch.

NotAPretender
20th June 2019, 00:36
Hey Sammy, here's an apology for you... :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJURd-FGr30

Aianawa
20th June 2019, 02:24
Loved that, awllll you guys

Dreamtimer
21st June 2019, 01:02
Part of my family is from Texas. It seems like almost all Americans must have a connection to Texas.

Bob
21st June 2019, 03:43
What makes things 'pardonable', imo, is your own attitude and future actions. Do you learn and adjust? Do you make excuses and blame others and keep on doing the same thing?

This life is a risk-taking endeavor, imo. We come here, we can't recall our consciousness from before, we risk much facing earthly challenges.

In the end, how do you balance out? Are you proud of yourself? Do you have regrets? Did you learn?

Personally, I think you're doing a good job.

"Don't let the bastards get you down."

Hia Dreamtimer and the Group..

I just got a "you are permanently banned from PA notice" this afternoon..

Guess I touched a nerve and somebody over they can't handle it.. that I got too close to the truth and they thought
I was going to tell others about it..

Gee..

Censorship?

Sure seems like it..

Aianawa
21st June 2019, 04:03
Heard it getting nasty Bob, keep strong - kia kaha

Bob
21st June 2019, 04:22
Heard it getting nasty Bob, keep strong - kia kaha

Of course.. ya they are in melt-down over there - I can only imagine what the newbies will find out soon enough...

Each of the MODS and KEY admins that left en-masse have been friends. They shared their feelings quite well.


Recent Event:
BR was wanting to have members just go on a tour with him to Ecuador to very high altitudes.

I posted a thread dealing with Altitude Sickness - Ecuador is a place where one living at sea-level all their lives can if traveling rapidly to altitude, can develop altitude sickness. the reality is PEOPLE CAN DIE from altitude sickness

Traveling rapidly from sea level to high altitudes and not telling them that they need to be wary of the issues frankly feel is irresponsible.

I live in the mountains in Colorado, and I have experienced personally altitude sickness and it is nasty...

That was the last thread that I posted to alert people to be cautious at altitude. I cited very good references.

I see I AM BANNED PERMANENTLY.. for being one who in their words damages PA.. for helping people to not risk being harmed unexpectedly.

To me that says something.. Something very important about the modus behind what's really going on..

Many people also asked me what is my personal opinion on BR's LAUGHLIN escapade. They wanted to know and respected my opinion.

I replied from my opinion..

AND apparently some members decided to forward a PM of MY OPINION to BR and the remaining mod group..

I said specifically to those who privately asked me for my opinion, people were AUDITED using Scientology practices WHICH SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DONE in a public venue.

I cited exactly the violation of the AUDITORS CODE, and said that my opinion, that people were put into a danger situation.. In my opinion that a member did that either overtly or stupidly to the group and the individuals is suspect. AND that I could not tell which - was it a stupid or deliberate action..

And here we go.. We see suppression and censoring..

So my feeling is someone doesn't want the PUBLIC to know, or the members who attended that they were potentially SETUP for a hard fail.

EACH of the members who wrote to me told me of their sicknesses and bad experiences.

KNOWING Scientology auditing practices, it was QUITE CLEAR TO ME people were abused by being audited in public..

Then I was told that the guy doing the scientology practices would gladly now solicit the members who needed help..

Does that seem odd? People were fine - they get "processed" against their will, then after the fact the coincidence is the practitioner says they will help them?

(for a fee?)

Would you wonder about that at all?

giovonni
21st June 2019, 04:56
Thanks for reporting/stating this fresh Bob, PA's (the Scientology thingy)
aspect needs to be noted (again) by the forum community ...

No matter how many familiar faces are encouraged in returning there.

Bob
21st June 2019, 05:07
Thanks for reporting/stating this fresh Bob, PA's (the Scientology thingy)
aspect needs to be noted (again) by the forum community ...

No matter how many familiar faces are encouraged in returning there.

Gio - i love you Bro.. You were a staple over there for such a long time and tossed to the wayside at BR's whim.

MANY mods were supporters for years, since the beginning said also that PA has been continually going downhill..

Bob
21st June 2019, 05:37
--------------

rant over..

giovonni
21st June 2019, 05:44
It should be noted back in 2016 , alter post questioning the mod teams treatment of a descending members
protest post - i was censored and placed on leave of absence for three days ... Upon realizing this i asked to
be unsubscribed - But Bill (i was told) thought that having (at that time) me the forums top poster dismissed
was embarrassing (to me or was it for the forum?), so the forum informed me of the retiring status.

It was there final way of informing me who really has the control and final say over there.

For so many years i kept my mouth (and opinion) shut publicly to myself, i had made it a practice not to mix
my forum posting with the (always) ongoing drama there. The Christine expose was the final draw for me ...

Anyone familiar with the Richard & Celene PA2 drama has seen all this before ...

As per another member and myself (privately jokingly) referring to as Project Avalon ~ The Next Generation.

Bob
21st June 2019, 06:10
It should be noted back in 2016 , alter post questioning the mod teams treatment of a descending members
protest post - i was censored and placed on leave of absence for three days ... Upon realizing this i asked to t
be unsubscribed -

I took a look at Christine's posts about when she was thrown under the bus, very revealing indeed.

Aianawa
21st June 2019, 06:24
Sales of popcorn will soar

Bob
21st June 2019, 06:29
Sales of popcorn will soar

rant over.

I spent years providing useful helpful data on PA for the benefit of the members, the public. Thousands of helpful posts to bring some data which was obscured or not taught - I posted personal experience, technical information and help..

Malcolm and Aragorn, I understand a lot more now of what it means to be used and abused by someone and tossed under the bus for being one who cares..

giovonni
21st June 2019, 19:03
rant over.

I spent years providing useful helpful data on PA for the benefit of the members, the public. Thousands of helpful posts to bring some data which was obscured or not taught - I posted personal experience, technical information and help..

Malcolm and Aragorn, I understand a lot more now of what it means to be used and abused by someone and tossed under the bus for being one who cares..

Hang in there Bob,
I know it's not easy to find yourself on the outside looking in.
Especially after being a loyal and excellent contributor at PA ...

Just remember all those that have recently left there with you...
Consider yourself lucky and fully awoken to the future.

Though TOT is a small forum, it is a mature platform and the
community's standard-bearer now, and your always outstanding
posting with be greatly appreciated here.

Blessing and thank you for being with us !

NotAPretender
21st June 2019, 21:29
Part of my family is from Texas. It seems like almost all Americans must have a connection to Texas.

It's a big state...In truth, my brother lived in Texas for 25 years before I moved here, he's the one that got me in this part of the world....he's back in Kansas now though... :)

Dreamtimer
24th June 2019, 22:49
Sammy mentioned climate change. Here's an interesting study (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaav7266):

Paraphrase:
Glaciers in the Himalayas are melting at twice the rate they used to, according to a new study published in the journal Science Advances. Why? In short: Climate change.

A team of scientists used satellite images taken across four decades (including during the Cold War, from spy satellites) to make the comparison. In layman’s terms, scientists converted the satellite images into 3D images and used those to compare the thickness of ice in different (650, in total) regions.

The study encompasses a wide area, from India, China, Nepal, and Bhutan, and even includes Mount Everest. Unfortunately, the wide area has a consistent bad result: Lots and lots of loss. There’s been a loss of 8.3 billion tons of ice per year since 2000. In the years between 1975 and 2000, the average was 4.3 billion tons. To put this another way, according to researchers, less than three-quarters of the ice that existed back in 1975 still exists today.

Abstract:

Himalayan glaciers supply meltwater to densely populated catchments in South Asia, and regional observations of glacier change over multiple decades are needed to understand climate drivers and assess resulting impacts on glacier-fed rivers. Here, we quantify changes in ice thickness during the intervals 1975–2000 and 2000–2016 across the Himalayas, using a set of digital elevation models derived from cold war–era spy satellite film and modern stereo satellite imagery. We observe consistent ice loss along the entire 2000-km transect for both intervals and find a doubling of the average loss rate during 2000–2016 [−0.43 ± 0.14 m w.e. year−1 (meters of water equivalent per year)] compared to 1975–2000 (−0.22 ± 0.13 m w.e. year−1). The similar magnitude and acceleration of ice loss across the Himalayas suggests a regionally coherent climate forcing, consistent with atmospheric warming and associated energy fluxes as the dominant drivers of glacier change.

Dreamtimer
24th June 2019, 23:01
The conclusion is followed by Materials and Methods.


Conclusion

Our analysis robustly quantifies four decades of ice loss for 650 of the largest glaciers across a 2000-km transect in the Himalayas. We find similar mass loss rates across subregions and a doubling of the average rate of loss during 2000–2016 relative to the 1975–2000 interval. This is consistent with the available multidecade weather station records scattered throughout HMA, which indicate quasi-steady mean annual air temperatures through the 1960s to the 1980s with a prominent warming trend beginning in the mid-1990s and continuing into the 21st century (23–26). We suggest that degree-day and energy balance models focused on accurately quantifying glacier responses to air temperature changes (including energy fluxes and associated feedbacks) will provide the most robust estimates of glacier response to future climate scenarios in the Himalayas.

Sammy
30th June 2019, 02:51
Can Humans Directly Observe the Quantum World? Part I

By William C. Bushell Ph.D. and Maureen Seaberg

Some of physics' remaining secrets may actually relent through the human senses.


A profound movement is underway in physics and related disciplines, one which has been accelerating. The public has not heard much about it, nor has the wider physics community. It is a groundswell of research focused on the discovery of the human potential for directly perceiving key aspects of what can genuinely be referred to as the “fabric of the universe.” What is astonishing about this news is that science is moving toward a day when human direct, sensory perception of the quantum may answer lingering questions about physics.

That's right — human direct sensory perception. Not machine.

Read the rest here (https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/article/can-humans-directly-observe-the-quantum-part-i?mc_cid=4a73b0b13a&mc_eid=672952c807)

I hope this can kick up a discussion

NotAPretender
30th June 2019, 13:22
Hi Sammy,

This might not be your cup of tea but I get the feeling that you are open to anything that addresses THE 'questions but there are medieval sources of info that are relevant even today...

"The Cloud of Unknowing" by anonymous and Meister Eckhart, a 'heretical' Christian mystic from whom Eckhart Tolle took his name. Meister Eckhart is now considered a 'mystic' but not a heretic.

His major thesis was that it was possible to access God as God without a physical context of any kind.. semantical, physical...no mind connection at all...simply consciousness as unity, a.k.a. quantum reality.

Something to consider, anywho.

NotAPretender
30th June 2019, 13:39
Actually, this article dovetails nicely with Gio's post of Teal Swan and the 'Mandela E/A ffect' One thing may be obvious, it would take a very clear mind to perceive things at that level. Or some human property that doesn't seem ubiquitous among the species. Perhaps 'unconscious' animals are better at it which is why they seem so damn weird. In 'End to Upside Down Thinking' the author alludes to evidence of 'better sight' among those showing less 'brain activity' than among those that are classically considered 'conscious', e.g. showing robust brain activity.

NotAPretender
30th June 2019, 13:48
This also touches on the nature of some natural phenomena such as the light effect of underwater objects. One author has suggested that this 'behavior' is precipitated by a 'nearly conscious' decision on the part of light to behave in the fashion that it does. With this newer research the suggestion emerges that it might be the human eye and the eye's consciousness that is making the decision with or perhaps even without the auspices of nature and its manifestion of light. It feels better to me that there be a cooperative activity rather than one taking precedence over the other. One over the other just doesn't sit well with me be it common human interaction or at the lofty level of nature/God.

One last thought: I wonder how they were able to measure human capability to the levels reported...at the quantum level all bets are off?

Sammy
2nd July 2019, 13:26
Its too bad that unless you are a member of PA and/or a Retired Member that can read member posts, folks can't read a post made by a recently (re)retired member Onawah.

The post is Post #67 in a thread about the recent shakeup at PA for those who are members.

I can't do justice to the post by attempting any form of synopsis... but how can I make this post and not try?

The post covers areas such as cyber-relationships, bringing together "disparate groups of people," addiction to technology, how the internet can be a great tool to "fight the NWO" it is also used by the NWO "and darker forces," forums can become an unwitting tool of disruption manipulated by third parties with agendas, emphasizing living in the Now and connected with Nature, Spirit..., mentioning the addiction aspect again with regards to support groups for internet addiction (if there was one here in Dallas, I would go)... that many internet addicts don't understand they are addicted, in denial...

Things getting down to the "end game" (darkness and light), the importance of PRESENCE (the Now moment) in a direct connection with others (not the cyber route but real "in the flesh" interaction with others), wishing Avalon well (and I read this through my own filter where I see TOT and perhaps some other forums in the group I also wish well for but I am not retiring from TOT)...

The end is Onawah's expression of appreciation of the service provided by PA (I read "all these forums") and a declaration to (re)connect with "real life" (my words, "real life," not Onawah's)... to break out of the cycle.

On another note but very related -

I have disabled the PM feature here at TOT and have chosen to remain Retired at PA. I have realized all the shitstorms I found myself in always involved PMs and then the movement to other forms of private communication. This has exposed me to situations where I either played a proactive role in a meltdown OR where I found myself feeling "held hostage" by a single relationship or a group or clique I found myself a part of. Because I accept I am no "master" of this type of "online maneuvering" I must accept my limitations and draw the line. I have done so - no more PMs - ever.

I have proven to myself I am vulnerable and have yet to achieve the level of sovereignty I feel I need to remain out of these back-channel shitstorms.

Dreamtimer
2nd July 2019, 14:28
Research into the human olfactory system has also recently been undergoing revolutionary progress, as it now appears to be part of a larger, organism-wide chemo-receptor system containing cells distributed throughout the body.

Human memories are strongly tied into smell.


...the ability to discriminate between actual external sources of light and light spontaneously produced by the body, especially by the visual system itself (internally produced light phenomena known as phosphenes or biophotons).

Very interesting.


From the meditative study mentioned:


A “framework” is presented for understanding empirically confirmed and unconfirmed phenomena in the Indo‐Tibetan meditation system, from an integrative perspective, and providing evidence that certain meditative practices enable meditators to realize the innate human potential to perceive light “at the limits imposed by quantum mechanics,” on the level of individual photons.


Such capacities may also allow advanced meditators to realize the innate human potential to...in toto [attain] the perception, as well as sophisticated understanding, of the “moment to moment change or impermanence” universally characteristic of the phenomenal world but normally outside untrained attention and perception according to Buddhist doctrine.

Dreamtimer
2nd July 2019, 14:34
Sammy,

You have affirmed my long-ago choice to avoid PMing. Thanks.

I saw how conversations would just stop in the middle. I saw how people would suddenly seem to have changed perspectives without any dialogue.

And as a moderator I decided to keep it at moderator level stuff.

Which means I don't PM much.

So, good decision, imo. It's worked out well. Most people who have PM'd me have received a reply. One or two messages were inappropriate and were left to wither.


Do you do meditation?

Funny thing, I recall that a former New Age popular writer, Mary Summer Rain, came up with something she called Quantum Meditation.

Sammy
2nd July 2019, 18:00
Sammy,

You have affirmed my long-ago choice to avoid PMing. Thanks.

I saw how conversations would just stop in the middle. I saw how people would suddenly seem to have changed perspectives without any dialogue.

And as a moderator I decided to keep it at moderator level stuff.

Which means I don't PM much.

So, good decision, imo. It's worked out well. Most people who have PM'd me have received a reply. One or two messages were inappropriate and were left to wither.


Do you do meditation?

Funny thing, I recall that a former New Age popular writer, Mary Summer Rain, came up with something she called Quantum Meditation.

I am always striving to improve (and I mean this from the perspective of others). I have decided that at age 61, I need to take up meditation. I was planning to go tonight to a place I have never been before that features meditation. Something tells me this would be an important thing to do.

Again, with regards to the PM thing (and I am fortunate that I can keep myself away from "doing it" because I am not a mod, I can actually turn off PMs - and I have done this. This is because I likely would be impulsive and reply OR send one in a heated moment. Sadly, I need to apply these types of things that are features enabled for members here at TOT and also at PA (as of now at least).

Another feature I think is excellent is the "Ignore Thread" feature though I haven't used that one yet.

I also appreciate that I can chose to ignore posts from a member that may not be a bad person but that I find "triggers me." I really emphasize that I see the "triggered" thing to be "my issue / my problem" but in cases I am unable to work that out, the Ignore List is an appreciated feature.

Sammy
2nd July 2019, 18:09
I am also "studying" non-duality again. I used the quotes because "studying" is not the right word... But I am heavily into it again.

A funny thing I came upon... just a thought for ya'll to consider and perhaps respond. I know what dualism means but I realized I am unable to express it in words. In fact, it seems like we go from One to three (skipping two and thus 'duality'). "What?" you might ask.

This is because if I am focusing on duality, that "I" is actually a third part of the dynamic. This is not a new consideration of mine but it is a consideration I buried deep within and long ago. That this came up again is thanks to a true wizard I am grateful to know and someone I love and cherish... someone original and who remains a "thinker for her/himself. And ironically, someone who answered the very first PM I was brave enough to right. And who replied in the kindest and most thoughtful way. That if it were not for this reply, I may have bailed on the whole "forum thing."

I am now feeling guilty that by turning of PMs, I may be blocking someone who might be in the position I was over 7 years ago. Geeeeeez, what a conundrum for if we can't give away what we have received... how do we even keep it? Maybe this is what I should meditate upon first (though I know classic meditation is like achieving an empty mind). Clearly my never ending posts show that this will be quite a challenge.

Sammy
2nd July 2019, 18:19
This will be the first class (https://www.meetup.com/Dallas-Spiritual-Growth-and-Meditation-for-Stress-Relief/events/vpbmwqyzkbfb/) -with regards to meditation.

Dreamtimer
2nd July 2019, 18:27
Sounds good.

Even small amounts of meditation are good. You can slowly increase the amount as you go. It's easier to make it part of your day that way.

Possibly.

Aragorn
2nd July 2019, 18:44
[...]

I am now feeling guilty that by turning of PMs, I may be blocking someone who might be in the position I was over 7 years ago. Geeeeeez, what a conundrum for if we can't give away what we have received... how do we even keep it? Maybe this is what I should meditate upon first (though I know classic meditation is like achieving an empty mind). Clearly my never ending posts show that this will be quite a challenge.

Well, just for the record, you can limit PMs to the people on your friends/contacts list and staff only, Brother. If you enable that in your settings, then people who are not on your friends/contacts list cannot send you PMs, unless they are staff members. But of course, then it comes down to your own moderation beforehand regarding whom you want to add to or keep on your friends list, and whom you will be denying the privilege. ;)

In the end, it only moves the conundrum to a different aspect of your forum interaction, but it might be easier to mitigate this way. :)

NotAPretender
3rd July 2019, 00:47
Part of the process would recognize that control is merely an illusion...We can't force an idea in or out...we just accept the coming and going with an effort to not be distracted from the effort to acquire the all and nothing of the neverlasting now which always relinquishes itself to the past and the future.

Letting go is as natural as breathing if we simply accept that that is the nature of existence. Take a breath in (which is a manifestation of universal life and love) and inevitably we will let it go...if not ...we have an unsolvable problem...

all forms of meditation, religions, philosophies are all speaking of the same thing...quantum reality.

Sammy
3rd July 2019, 13:57
Note: The following five posts were copied over from another thread.




I have had a reasonably extensive relationship with Bill off and on for several years. Never, once, did Bill bring Scientology into our conversations and never was there any hint of auditing as something PA or Bill would offer to a member. I did experience a period of time where, via my own curiosity, I reached out to Herve and for awhile we PM'd back and forth where he attempted (and succeeded) in assisting me in understanding the core views of Scientology...

I might call it "the metaphysical structure" of who/what we are in this world where Herve suggested the view far preceded LRH and his creation of Scientology and by way of Herve's recommendation, I obtained a book entitled Secrets of the Gypsies. Clearly, the core view (and premise upon which Scientology appears to rest) far pre-dates Scientology. Later I searched the Free-Org for a local auditor and engaged in a series of these procedures. I have nothing negative to say about auditing but I did not continue with the auditing for two reasons - one because I enjoy (and prefer) the way that Life/life, I/itself is essentially my "e-meter"... if I would only pay attention to the readings but most importantly, if I properly interpret the readings. The other reason was the cost... auditing can be quite expensive and there are many, many different auditing pathways available.

Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 14:00
Regarding Bill and PA/donations

The way I look at it all is that everybody's life path unfolds in part by planning but also as a result of less than predictable (and sometimes unpredictable) life. It appears to me the life circumstances Bill found himself facing resulted in his ownership of the PA forum. PA is a forum capable of generating donations (income) which Bill, as owner, can do with as he wishes.

If some or all of that income is used for personal support (the means to maintaining a life, a body and its basic needs) such that Bill can maintain a lifestyle whereby he can do (which requires time) what he feels is needed and best for the PA forum, which includes (IMO) caring for himself in ways he can fuel his spirit, allow for care for his soul, provide him the ability to focus on all the things he wants to and needs to for his spiritual maintenance... I don't begrudge Bill for any of that.

And I think most folks who have provided donations know much of this and share a similar view.

Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.

Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.

I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.

Sammy
3rd July 2019, 14:19
Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.

Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.

I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.

Regarding the first point, the costs to run/maintain that forum are considering inflation from the last time Bill publicly stated the costs) is around $500 monthly. This does not include costs to any staff. But having mentioned that, from the last time Bill shared the information (I cannot know if this is the case since), all staff is all, 100% voluntary.

Regarding the second point (and I have prepared a significantly monstrous post which, if I pull the trigger, will be placed in my silly smorgasbord thread and which addresses this in the most broad sense), "giving" (whether money or any other form of giving) can have negative implications for others. And so in cases such as that, I can only imagine what "karma" might be created by the giver for her/himself in this regard.

A simple example is having a child that has a serious drug problem and you give them money when you know the odds are extremely high they will use it to buy drugs OR, if they use it to buy food instead (for example), you are still enabling them to survive without having to face the consequences of their indulgences thus you may actually be preventing them or at least prolonging their "need" to reach that bottom whereby they may actually take the first steps towards facing their problem with drugs. This type of "giving" is exemplified on a macro level by cities such as San Francisco. And worse, they do it by using the funding provided through taxes taken from those who live more responsibly. The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."

Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 14:34
Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.

Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.

I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.

Regarding the first point, the costs to run/maintain that forum are considering inflation from the last time Bill publicly stated the costs) is around $500.

Actually, I could be wrong, but I believe that it would be significantly more than that. There's the lease for the domain name itself, which has to be periodically renewed, and then there's the cost of running the server, plus the cost of the server's facilities in terms of guaranteed network throughput, the periodic backups, the machine's hardware layout, and so on.


This does not include costs to any staff. But having mentioned that, from the last time Bill shared the information (I cannot know if this is the case since), all staff is all, 100% voluntary.

Yes, the Project Avalon staff members are not being financially reimbursed, nor would that be the case here at The One Truth or at Eye-Rise. We all do what we do out of a 100% voluntary commitment.

Unless your name is George Noory, Jay Weidner, David Wilcock or Corey Goode of course, because for them this whole alternative community thing is nothing but a business. ;)


Regarding the second point (and I have prepared a significantly monstrous post which, if I pull the trigger, will be placed in my silly smorgasbord thread and which addresses this in the most broad sense), "giving" (whether money or any other form of giving) can have negative implications for others. And so in cases such as that, I can only imagine what "karma" might be created by the giver for her/himself in this regard.

A simple example is having a child that has a serious drug problem and you give them money when you know the odds are extremely high they will use it to buy drugs OR, if they use it to buy food instead (for example), you are still enabling them to survive without having to face the consequences of their indulgences thus you may actually be preventing them or at least prolonging their "need" to reach that bottom whereby they may actually take the first steps towards facing their problem with drugs. This type of "giving" is exemplified on a macro level by cities such as San Francisco. And worse, they do it by using the funding provided through taxes taken from those who live more responsibly. The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."

Yes, of course, but I was not addressing those issues, as that would take us too deep into that subject, and it would be off-topic for this thread ─ we've already drifted off-topic a few times. So my statement was generic and therefore precluded any "negative karma" situations. ;)

Wind
3rd July 2019, 15:00
The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That doesn't mean that people should stop giving, as giving is almost always the right thing to do.

What ever you give will come back to you in one way or another. I too have given a lot without asking or expecting anything back in return and as Aragorn said, sadly sometimes people don't even bother to give thanks. That surely tells something. When it comes to governments helping people, well, that's another thing. I do believe that nourishing food, free public healthcare and shelters for people are basic human rights and they are non-negotiable. Not everyone is able to take care of themselves, for various reasons. Sometimes they are mental or physical problems & illnesses. That's where empathy should kick in or if it doesn't then we see a society that resembles a shithole.

Some people get into addictions, those addictions shouldn't be fed, but the core problem should be dealt with. Of course then there is the karma too which all of us have and it manifests in our lives in multiple different ways... That doesn't mean that we shouldn't help each others as life most certainly can be a struggle for most of us. We all have to face misery and sorrow eventually anyways and everyone is going to need some support.

Sammy
3rd July 2019, 17:14
OK, continuing...

Regarding the monthly costs that I mentioned. If I am correct, PA owns its own hardware. That was not included in the costs I mentioned. Those costs can be significant. I just set up a self hosted situation only about six months ago. Two enterprise servers (one for the database, the other for the application). The firewall, switch and routers were also part of the rack. We had almost $10,000 invested in that alone. The amortization of the equipment was over three years.

If the hosting arrangement does not include that equipment, then yes, the costs would even be higher if looked at on a monthly basis.

There's also the possibility of a need for increased bandwidth. PA is a library. Recently a friend of mine who is a conspiracy researcher wanted to view a document that held information I provided to him from my memory. After ten minutes of guess work on Google, we found the document. It was held in the Project Avalon library. My friend had never heard of Project Avalon until that day. My point is that over time, I imagine more and more bandwidth is needed and that would raise the monthly cost.

In addition, DDOS protection is costly. If you use a cheaper hosting service and your site is the target of DDOS (especially if it happens many times) you are sometimes shown the door simply because they cannot handle the loss of bandwidth as that impacts others they host (this exact scenario has happened to a project I was involved in albeit in 2004).

Regardless of all the above... let's say it came to $1,000, think about being Bill Ryan and having his career path (that began what, late 2005?) and thus all the barriers that would be placed in his way in every way possible by any third party that wishes to impede his mission. There's costs to that... probably significant costs. I don't think anyone could put a number on it.

I have come across a few folks over the years that have made some sort of moral issue out of what may go directly to operations and what may assist Bill in maintaining a lifestyle where he can continue his work and do so at as high a level as possible. IMO you cannot separate the two and IMO there's no good cause to see that as an issue.

I would be willing to bet that if Bill Ryan were, like Alex Tsakiris (for example) where he has wealth independent from everything related to his website/podcasts/forum - Skeptiko (not that he may not earn income from the site and/or a book he might write), Project Avalon would not be accepting donations.

Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 17:28
[...]

If the hosting arrangement does not include that equipment, then yes, the costs would even be higher if looked at on a monthly basis.

[...]


Oh, my apologies, Sam... When you mentioned USD $500, you meant that to be on a monthly basis, rather than annual? If so, then yes, that amount would about be right. But I had interpreted it as if you were saying "$500 a year", and that is certainly not going to cover it. :)

Sammy
3rd July 2019, 21:58
Oh, my apologies, Sam... When you mentioned USD $500, you meant that to be on a monthly basis, rather than annual? If so, then yes, that amount would about be right. But I had interpreted it as if you were saying "$500 a year", and that is certainly not going to cover it. :)

That's an uncommon error of omission on my part (considering my reputation for anality). I corrected the original post to clarify monthly.

Sammy
3rd July 2019, 22:04
I know the odds are high that this post will not be contemplatively read to its end by even one reader but... I post it anyways.

What I have focused on these last several years is what I refer to as "The greatest dilemma of all." And here is what it is (for me).

First I must describe the factors that lead to the dilemma -

Factor One

I have a set of operational assumptions from which I have established a set of operational protocols. What I might call call - Protocol Number One is that I am 100% responsible for every single thing in my life... firstly, everything I think, speak/write and/or do (see the caveat regarding "thinking") and additionally, that at the deepest level of my individuated being I have a responsibility in the arising of all experiences that present themselves to me.

As for the "thinking" part, and thanks to the information I have come upon mostly through these forums, I understand that my thoughts can be influenced. And for that reason I no longer judge myself for the thoughts I experience but instead, I have learned I to reflect on thoughts and decide which thoughts I wish to "own."

Understand I do not adhere to this protocol perfectly. Especially when I allow my emotions to dominate, but since I have established this "self rule" my life experience has improved.

Factor Two

Sam is reasonably capable of being able to establish and live this protocol. But others may not be so capable. I call these folks, "the vulnerable." The line between the two is indiscernible. Because I choose to assume that there is, in fact, such beings... the vulnerable, I cannot impose my Protocol One on any other being. Just because I choose to accept full, 100% responsibility for every single thing I think (once I own the thought), speak/write and/or do, and every single experience that arises in my awareness and that "touches me" in any form, does not give me the right to apply this rule to any other being.

Factor Three

The nature of life is entanglement. We are all entangled with a plethora of arisings of individuated manifestations of life that most of us "honor" as sovereign. Most folks (and mostly without consciously considering such... they simply assume the following is "self evident) - assume we are all separate, all manifestations of life are separate. Because my primary metaphysical, cosmological world view is monistic idealism, I chose to see us all as One BUT! I also honor the arising of form within this One as to its primary property, individuation, where the pinnacle of expression of form is "the living being."

And to not get too deep in the above, but I view the "dance of form" within the One as manifesting in two tiers that are simultaneously work together as one and yet can be viewed as two... immaterial form (like thoughts) and material form like a physical body or a rock or water or a blade of grass, etc.

There is the non-local "I" that is experiencing this 'physicality reality' through an interface called the body where the focused "I" experiences immaterial (thoughtful) reflections stimulated by its experience.

So here's the dilemma (based on the assumption that all the above is true for any individual that chooses to adopt all the above assumptions).

How does one decide who should be considered capable of maintaining their life experience whereby they are responsible for their life and who might be incapable and thus... vulnerable?

This is obviously a completely subjective decision to make. In addition, each of us as individuated human beings entangled in the social fabric of physical existence on a planet will have a different opinion, especially with regard to the degree each of us should be considered capable and vulnerable, as most of us have a mixture of both!

And so the dilemma then becomes, what do we who are capable do with/for the vulnerable? And to further point out the complexity of this dilemma, who actually is the most accurate "decider" as to who is fully capable, who has great capability and a little vulnerability, who is mostly vulnerable and who is completely vulnerable?

And so in cases where you have "the mostly vulnerable" or "the completely vulnerable" don't we need to help them? What is the right "help"? How do we know that which we think is "help" is not instead impeding an individual's opportunity to rise above their vulnerability on their own accord whereby they may attain more capability? Where they may achieve experiences that give them the opportunity to refine the integrity of their own soul? Where they can experience a greater sense of self dignity?

Where does any one of us or, for that matter, any group, organization, governmental agency, political party draw the line between "help" and "enablement" where enablement is robbing another of their opportunity to grow or worse, assisting them to further self destruction whereby turning the course for that individual becomes harder and harder?

And so take this dilemma to the level of the soul. Are we souls? Or are we just born and then die? Are we "That" and only "That" and thus all this... individuation included is all and only a silly illusion (as some traditions suggest)? Regardless of the argument that "it is all illusion" (because from the POV of the Absolute, this can indeed be argued) is this illusion of physical life valueless? Is the illusion of individuation valueless? Is the possibility that "soul" exists ("soul" being individuation that survives physical death and which could have existed prior to birth) valueless?

Aren't all these "illusions" (again, I am saying illusion from the POV of a few traditions) tied directly to what we call "Life?" If so, is Life/life a valueless illusion?

If Life/life has value and yet it comes with an impossible dilemma, should we cast Life/life aside? If the answer is, "No," then perhaps we must accept the dilemma as unsolvable but nevertheless embrace Life/life and live it to the fullest and strive, knowing we'll never do it perfectly, to always do our best!

And this is where, at age 61 of this insignificantly short and tiny individuated expression of life I happen to be this moment.

Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 23:08
I know the odds are high that this post will not be contemplatively read to its end by even one reader but... I post it anyways.

I've read through the whole thing. :p


What I have focused on these last several years is what I refer to as "The greatest dilemma of all." And here is what it is (for me).

[...]

So here's the dilemma (based on the assumption that all the above is true for any individual that chooses to adopt all the above assumptions).

How does one decide who should be considered capable of maintaining their life experience whereby they are responsible for their life and who might be incapable and thus... vulnerable?

Interpreting the above question literally and omitting the concept of enabling ─ see farther down ─ I personally think that such judgment cannot be made, because of a lack of information with regard to the individuals involved. Ultimately, the universe will hold each and every one of them responsible for their own actions, and we could argue that "they should have known better" until the cows come home, but considering all of what you've written in your elaboration of the three tenets as you've laid them out above ─ and which I largely agree with ─ we must keep in mind that not everyone possesses the required self-knowledge and/or discipline to stop themselves from making mistakes.


This is obviously a completely subjective decision to make. In addition, each of us as individuated human beings entangled in the social fabric of physical existence on a planet will have a different opinion, especially with regard to the degree each of us should be considered capable and vulnerable, as most of us have a mixture of both!

And so the dilemma then becomes, what do we who are capable do with/for the vulnerable? And to further point out the complexity of this dilemma, who actually is the most accurate "decider" as to who is fully capable, who has great capability and a little vulnerability, who is mostly vulnerable and who is completely vulnerable?

I think that none of us have any clear insight into whether a person would truly be deserving of protection.

My own take on it is to simply offer protection insofar as the information in the back of my head doesn't object to it, because you could be protecting someone who doesn't deserve your protection, and thereby you could be hurting someone else. And in my experience ─ but your mileage may vary ─ this is an aspect in which your emotional intelligence and empathy must come into play, because I don't think you can decide upon that by way of your pure intellect alone. :hmm:

In my humble opinion, you must assume a grander vision and look at the synthesis instead of the thesis and the antithesis. It's a matter of an energetic balance that's upset, and you must apply the wisdom and discernment that restore it. If you cannot decide on what would be best, then try imagining what would be worst. You always have to find an anchor point. :hmm:


And so in cases where you have "the mostly vulnerable" or "the completely vulnerable" don't we need to help them? What is the right "help"? How do we know that which we think is "help" is not instead impeding an individual's opportunity to rise above their vulnerability on their own accord whereby they may attain more capability? Where they may achieve experiences that give them the opportunity to refine the integrity of their own soul? Where they can experience a greater sense of self dignity?

This is where you must practise discernment, Brother. You can only keep as much in mind as what you already know about the risk assessment. And you could also tie a condition to your help, in case you don't trust the person whom you're helping to use your help for the better, rather than for the worse. So for instance, you can say something like, "I'm going to help you, but only on the condition that...", and so on. :hmm:


[...]

And so take this dilemma to the level of the soul. Are we souls? Or are we just born and then die? Are we "That" and only "That" and thus all this... individuation included is all and only a silly illusion (as some traditions suggest)? Regardless of the argument that "it is all illusion" (because from the POV of the Absolute, this can indeed be argued) is this illusion of physical life valueless? Is the illusion of individuation valueless? Is the possibility that "soul" exists ("soul" being individuation that survives physical death and which could have existed prior to birth) valueless?

Personally, I believe that we are spiritual beings, and that we are emanations ─ avatars ─ of a single, unified, universal consciousness. But is my belief justified? I don't know. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence to support the thesis, but it could just as easily be that we're all wrong and that the materialist scientists are correct. I don't think so ─ cfr. the role consciousness plays in the observation of the collapse of the wave function in quantum physics ─ but there is no absolutely conclusive evidence in either direction.

As for whether anything is valueless, well, in my belief as explained here-above, nothing is without value, because I believe that everything has a reason for being, and that it is all part of the universe's journey toward self-discovery. But regardless of whether I'm right or wrong about that, I will always regard everything as if it has value. If I am being naive in that, then so be it, but it comes from the unconditional love and respect I have within me for all that exists.

Even if I am only a fluke of a couple of billion cells hanging together for a couple of decades and developing some sort of awareness as a whole, then I will still respect everything for being, because that is who I am and how I am. I've been like that ever since birth, and I consider it a virtue, rather than a vice.


Aren't all these "illusions" (again, I am saying illusion from the POV of a few traditions) tied directly to what we call "Life?" If so, is Life/life a valueless illusion?

I do not believe that it would be. To me, it is either way never without value ─ whether it's my life or somebody else's life.


If Life/life has value and yet it comes with an impossible dilemma, should we cast Life/life aside? If the answer is, "No," then perhaps we must accept the dilemma as unsolvable but nevertheless embrace Life/life and live it to the fullest and strive, knowing we'll never do it perfectly, to always do our best!

Yes, we should all strive for that. And if it does all turn out to have been without meaning in the end ─ which nobody would of course be able to ascertain, as there wouldn't be anyone around anymore by that time ─ then the joke is on the universe. As conscious beings, we have to maintain a set of ethics, whether our existence is a fluke or whether it was a conscious decision from a unified consciousness.


And this is where, at age 61 of this insignificantly short and tiny individuated expression of life I happen to be this moment.

Well, maybe at age 56, I was able to enlighten you. :p :onthequite:

Dreamtimer
4th July 2019, 15:37
To help or not to help?

Where do we draw the line between help and control?

Humans form collective systems in order to operate collectively.

We have lots of names for that: family, tribe, community, government. Yes, I said the g-word. It is a collective effort wherein our value (money) is used. Which is why, imo, we should all participate in some manner. It's necessary to enter a system to understand it.


Are we souls? Or are we just born and then die? Are we "That" and only "That" and thus all this... individuation included is all and only a silly illusion (as some traditions suggest)? Regardless of the argument that "it is all illusion" (because from the POV of the Absolute, this can indeed be argued) is this illusion of physical life valueless?

We are souls. I have no doubt. We are biological machines housing a soul/spirit. The design of those machines and the home we live on is exquisite, imo.

The illusion allows us to operate during this truly brief experience. We need to be in this form in order to do it. And we learn from it. Individually and also collectively. It's a collective effort, imo, incarnating here. Or anywhere in a physical universe.

Nature doesn't waste energy. That's a sort of fact of life. And, in my opinion, nothing about us is a waste, in terms of our creation and being.

We may, of course, waste and squander our opportunities, or screw up our home because we're arrogant fools.

That's our own stupidity. A lesson we will learn sooner or later. (in or out of this life)

Deciding who is sovereign and who isn't is a very big responsibility. Is it really ours?

Who are we to judge each other and decide who is sovereign? (I realize I'm tweaking your question, Sammy. It's because I know way too many folks who are willing to 'help' other folks right out of their lives and property).

I believe it's our job to take responsibility for ourselves and help others as possible. I happen to have been raised with values which include the golden rule and loving your neighbor as yourself. Those are simple to understand, though not easy to implement and live by.

The concept of freedom is basic to our advancement as a species. We need to stop trying to control each other and learn how to help each other while still being sovereign, each one of us.


...nevertheless embrace Life/life and live it to the fullest and strive, knowing we'll never do it perfectly, to always do our best!

I think you've got it right with that, Sammy.



And if it does all turn out to have been without meaning in the end ─ which nobody would of course be able to ascertain, as there wouldn't be anyone around anymore by that time ─ then the joke is on the universe.:ttr::hilarious::ttr:

I still think the tree makes noise, even if no-one is there to hear it.

Sammy
5th July 2019, 12:35
Enlightenment is a good thing, yes? Yet not enough seems to get around, yes?

I found a great "community" here in Dallas. Live human beings. CSL Dallas (https://csldallas.org/). Already started connecting with the folks. The most attractive thing of all is I haven't experienced any condescension and get the feeling I won't. Fantastically refreshing. Meditations, community, service... all sorts of good things. Live, in the flesh, human beings being and doing.

Dreamtimer
5th July 2019, 14:33
Nice.

I can't abide condescension. Most of the folks I know who do it don't really have much ground to stand on.

In fact, I go less to my friend's weekly craft night because some of the folks there have become very intolerant and judgmental and I find it unpleasant to be around. A different friend and I have been talking about having our own craft night.

The condescension from the group could indeed be related to the fact that they believe they are 'chosen'. That automatically makes me lesser. I know I'm not, but the attitudes get really old and I've grown quite tired of them.


The nice thing about this place for me is that I can talk about things that I really can't with people I know first-hand. People are very reactionary and love to jump to conclusions, which usually aren't good.

So, they don't get to have the kinds of out-of-the box conversations that I do. Too bad for them.

Sammy
5th July 2019, 15:58
YES DT, that's why I really like TOT. I feel as long as I can be respectful, I can express anything I want to express.

Aianawa
6th July 2019, 06:21
Indeed Sammy, Feel that a flat Earther could start a thread and be safe here lol.

Dreamtimer
6th July 2019, 13:14
Well, cats would have already pushed everything off if it were so...:ttr:

https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fres.cloudinary.com%2F teepublic%2Fimage%2Fprivate%2Fs--h0nQkVt3--%2Ft_Preview%2Fb_rgb%3A191919%2Cc_lpad%2Cf_jpg%2Ch _630%2Cq_90%2Cw_1200%2Fv1522007124%2Fproduction%2F designs%2F2528246_1.jpg&sp=3f1f10b4987ea42674621890e8bb78cd&anticache=792517

Sammy
6th July 2019, 13:19
These two managed to push us off our bed... but the whole flat earth?

2359

Dreamtimer
6th July 2019, 13:28
It was just a joke. We have had interviews with Eric Dubay posted here. It wasn't a problem.

Here's a video (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12934-Tartaria-Remembered-All-Research-N-Truth-Welcome?p=842011682&viewfull=1#post842011682) Aianawa just posted that has flat earth in it.

I've discussed Nibiru here more than once. That's considered to be pretty out there and as I've seen, it's pretty much not a welcomed subject over at PA.

Sammy
6th July 2019, 13:29
It was just a joke. We have had interviews with Eric Dubay posted here. It wasn't a problem.

Ohhh apologies, my never mind was because I had written a post I chose to change and had nothing to do with yours, Dreamtimer, as yours hadn't even showed up yet when I was writing mine... BUT! please go back up and re-look at mine as I have edited it especially for you.

Dreamtimer
6th July 2019, 13:39
I just saw. :love:

We just stayed at a place that had four kittens just a few weeks old. Adorable to the max. Mom was even training them with a chipmunk, which was a little sad, but also good since they'll need that training.

The Reader
6th July 2019, 14:47
It was just a joke. We have had interviews with Eric Dubay posted here. It wasn't a problem.

Here's a video (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12934-Tartaria-Remembered-All-Research-N-Truth-Welcome?p=842011682&viewfull=1#post842011682) Aianawa just posted that has flat earth in it.

I've discussed Nibiru here more than once. That's considered to be pretty out there and as I've seen, it's pretty much not a welcomed subject over at PA.


Hi Dreamtimer.

Can you share your thoughts on Nibiru, succinctly? Interested in a hearin what you be thinking of possible large bodieness awandarin in our system of solarity.

Chris
6th July 2019, 15:33
Hi Dreamtimer.

Can you share your thoughts on Nibiru, succinctly? Interested in a hearin what you be thinking of possible large bodieness awandarin in our system of solarity.

Although you addressed the question to DT, I hope you don't mind if I chime in.

Whilst there may additional planets circling the sun, we're not currently aware of (astronomists currently think it is very likely based on gravitational data), the idea that the term "Nibiru", as found in the Enuma Elish, is an extra planet on an irregular orbit that returns to the inner solar system every 5000 years, was completely made up by Zecharia Sitchin, I'm afraid.

What not a lot of people know (but Bill Ryan has confirmed to me, as he knew Sitchin personally), is that much of Sitchin's material came from channelling and not from actually translating ancient Sumerian clay tablets. Most of his translations were highly inaccurate anyways.

The scholars who have translated said clay tablets think that Nibiru is a Sumerian term for the Equinox, so it is an astrological phenomenon, not an actual fixed planet. It can mean any number of planets, depending on when and where an Equinox occurs. At certain times in the past it referred to Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and certain star constellations, such as Lybra.

There is also the problem, that if there was indeed a rogue planet on an irregular orbit, such as Sitchin's hypothetical Nibiru, it would be outside the habitable zone of the solar system for most of its existence, thousands of years at a time and would only be technically habitable when it crossed earth's orbit. Most of the time, it would be a lifeless, frozen rock or a gas giant.

My own hunch is, that both Mars and Venus were habitable in the distant past and if the gods of myth are from somewhere inside the solar system, those two planets would be likely candidates, as well as some of the moons around Jupiter and Saturn. Recently it has been revealed, that Venus was in fact habitable millions of years ago. Mars is also showing signs of possible past life. I think new discoveries will be made in this field pretty rapidly, so hold on to your seats!

NotAPretender
6th July 2019, 16:31
that was the word i've been looking for...judgmental...we should eliminate that word from the lexicon but in actuality we need it to help us differentiate what actions are in favor of humanity and those that aren't.

Dreamtimer
6th July 2019, 16:35
Actually, these answers are why I'm interested. I like to know what folks think and believe. Especially when there are so many folks still writing and talking about it.

I'm more inclined to look at the cycles of comets as a possible destructive force than a rogue planet. I do believe that we'd notice the effects of a rogue planet, which would be large.

Life has taught me many times that the 'impossible' is in fact possible so I tend not to rule things out completely.

I don't know what the odds are, but a bunch of arctic melting will cause a bunch of environmental upheaval.


We're in for some rocky times whatever the origin. My Dad taught me when I was young that we were lucky to have been living in a calm time climatically, because the history of the earth shows us that it won't last.

I believe we play a role in climate, maybe not as big as some say.

I also think the solar system may have some cycles that we don't understand yet.

I have some concern about the weakening magnetic field, which is happening at a time of increased cosmic rays. We're lucky at the moment that the sun isn't heaving massive ejections at us.

Nibiru isn't something I've talked about in a while and I haven't looked at anything on the subject in a while.

NotAPretender
6th July 2019, 16:38
I tend to agree with you Chris on the subject of Nibiru...somehow overlooked by most believers. I hope you're right as that would be pretty exciting.

Dreamtimer
6th July 2019, 16:42
I like to distinguish between being judgmental, which is emotional:cracky:, often based in belief and religion:priest:, and often irrational:wacko:.

On the other hand, we each have a responsibility to use our judgement in life. We have to judge how to act, where to put our resources, who to make alliances with. Which is why we need to educate ourselves in all kinds of ways.:tea:

The Reader
6th July 2019, 17:57
Although you addressed the question to DT, I hope you don't mind if I chime in.

Whilst there may additional planets circling the sun, we're not currently aware of (astronomists currently think it is very likely based on gravitational data), the idea that the term "Nibiru", as found in the Enuma Elish, is an extra planet on an irregular orbit that returns to the inner solar system every 5000 years, was completely made up by Zecharia Sitchin, I'm afraid.

What not a lot of people know (but Bill Ryan has confirmed to me, as he knew Sitchin personally), is that much of Sitchin's material came from channelling and not from actually translating ancient Sumerian clay tablets. Most of his translations were highly inaccurate anyways.

The scholars who have translated said clay tablets think that Nibiru is a Sumerian term for the Equinox, so it is an astrological phenomenon, not an actual fixed planet. It can mean any number of planets, depending on when and where an Equinox occurs. At certain times in the past it referred to Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and certain star constellations, such as Lybra.

There is also the problem, that if there was indeed a rogue planet on an irregular orbit, such as Sitchin's hypothetical Nibiru, it would be outside the habitable zone of the solar system for most of its existence, thousands of years at a time and would only be technically habitable when it crossed earth's orbit. Most of the time, it would be a lifeless, frozen rock or a gas giant.

My own hunch is, that both Mars and Venus were habitable in the distant past and if the gods of myth are from somewhere inside the solar system, those two planets would be likely candidates, as well as some of the moons around Jupiter and Saturn. Recently it has been revealed, that Venus was in fact habitable millions of years ago. Mars is also showing signs of possible past life. I think new discoveries will be made in this field pretty rapidly, so hold on to your seats!


Brilliant.

Thank you for that. I agree with your thoughts about Mars and Venus, especially Mars. There be a kinship between this world an t'other, fo sho.

The Reader
6th July 2019, 18:03
Actually, these answers are why I'm interested. I like to know what folks think and believe. Especially when there are so many folks still writing and talking about it.

I'm more inclined to look at the cycles of comets as a possible destructive force than a rogue planet. I do believe that we'd notice the effects of a rogue planet, which would be large.

Life has taught me many times that the 'impossible' is in fact possible so I tend not to rule things out completely.

I don't know what the odds are, but a bunch of arctic melting will cause a bunch of environmental upheaval.


We're in for some rocky times whatever the origin. My Dad taught me when I was young that we were lucky to have been living in a calm time climatically, because the history of the earth shows us that it won't last.

I believe we play a role in climate, maybe not as big as some say.

I also think the solar system may have some cycles that we don't understand yet.

I have some concern about the weakening magnetic field, which is happening at a time of increased cosmic rays. We're lucky at the moment that the sun isn't heaving massive ejections at us.

Nibiru isn't something I've talked about in a while and I haven't looked at anything on the subject in a while.


Yes, lucky we be.

But for how long can that luck hold? Fractions of fractions is all it would take, tis a fine balancing act upon a cosmic scale, humongous scale. And I agree about the changing climate, the climate has/is always in flux. I think cows have produced more CO2 than we hoomans, but we should not be acting like a virus upon our host. We been devolving sine the industrial revolution.

Sammy
15th July 2019, 14:04
Just a place holder here -

"Just when I thought 'Life/life' could not get any weirder..." On July 11, 2019, I was faced with a horrific experience which I am currently still unable to post about (I may never be) but just so happens to be exactly 7 years to the day that my 2nd son (I have three) went on a crime spree which could have been deadly where I soon became involved in an effort to "help him" such that he might be able to receive a probation instead of going to prison. My son was just 18 years old at the time. He is now 25 and the experience involves this same son as the center piece of the experience. As dark as one could ever imagine... potentially, permanently relationship ending... taking my other two sons along with him.

Background -

I had only recently returned to the US (Dallas, Texas... my original home which also had been my "home base" for most of my life prior to leaving the US, in 1997) due to a personal life crisis of my own when his sad day happened. Strangely, my personal life crisis became a pivot point in this particular lifetime where I was able to experience the key changes at the deepest levels of my being and thus ever since, my life experience has steadily improved and to the point I can only describe as wonderful with a major caveat.

That caveat is - my wife of 17 years and her daughter, a wonderful 21 year old was able to immigrate to the US (they are from Medellin, Colombia) on what would have been my father's birthday, January 13, 2017 (he would have been 82) - and the caveat is that when I describe my life as wonderful, I am speaking from the perspective my life experience as to my current "living in my home" family life experience is concerned. Sadly, all of my external, recent experiences, especially those involving my sons who no longer live in my home (they had to move out when my wife and step-daughter arrived in that January of 2017), have been pure psycho/twilight zone/Stephen Kingish...

And so all the above is written and posted for the one or two that might read but more because this is a method I use to "process" what may be "processable" (if processable).

And I know that I am (once again) pointing to something which surely "ya'll" may be curious as to what could have possibly happened, but I cannot speak about it yet...

Note that I have not posted in days (since July 10, 2019) and this is because I am still pretty rattled by it all AND that things related to this are still unfolding where I am advised NOT to discuss at this time.

As for my idea regarding a listing of X22 predictions (Q related), I am dropping the idea. As Fred suggested, it would be a waste of time (but I had already known that). I only wanted to do it because I thought it might be entertaining... maybe even fun. Sadly, at this time, I have no time for any fun and even more important - no space for any fun.

Aianawa
15th July 2019, 21:53
Feel blessed to know you Sam, keep strong. everything happens for a reason, sending blessings to you n family.

Dreamtimer
18th July 2019, 15:41
You're lucky your wife and daughter made it in, Sammy. The barriers are being thrown up before all, not just the trouble makers. I'm glad they didn't get caught up in nastiness.

My heart breaks for you and your sons. It's beyond my imagining to think of losing any of them, much less all three.

I hope sharing can help. Often, another can offer a perspective or idea which you can't get to through all the emotions and stress. And expressing yourself is a very helpful activity.

:hug::group hug::fire:

NotAPretender
18th July 2019, 23:32
That's a good point DT,

It occurred to me that if those walls go up to keep out immigrants only the rapists, drug cartel members, murderers, MS-13 will be in the U.S. Sort of like take away guns and only criminals will have guns.

Dreamtimer
19th July 2019, 12:12
Lumping good people into the bad will just cause harm to the good people.

People's cognitive dissonance doesn't allow them to see the contradiction in their positions regarding guns.

Sammy
19th July 2019, 12:27
I cannot explain why this community means so much to me. I really can't explain it... but it does.

I will have an important update and all will become clear Wednesday afternoon.

Sammy
19th July 2019, 13:12
You're lucky your wife and daughter made it in, Sammy. The barriers are being thrown up before all, not just the trouble makers. I'm glad they didn't get caught up in nastiness.


My wife and step-daughter landed in Miami on January 13, 2017. The effort took us 3 1/2 years. One whole extra year just to get one single piece of paper called a "Letter of Good Conduct" for Cristina from the government of the island of Curaçao. Despite that this same government had provided us this same letter in the summer of 2006 (so that we could obtain a "stay permit" for her with regards to our move to Costa Rica), they stated that they could not find evidence of her registration in their civil registry from when we lived in Curaçao and had residency back during that time.

The story -

We started the effort in the fall of 2013 assisted by the services of an excellent immigration attorney who, coincidentally, had been an immigrant herself (from India).

We filed the original paperwork in early 2014. It took us up until October 15, 2015 for us to obtain the all important "interview" for Cristina (my wife) and Alejandra (my step-daughter) at the US Embassy in Bogota, Colombia. At that interview, and despite we had been married for 13 years, despite that we had filed all applications, paid all fees, had all the other paperwork perfect, despite that we had the Letters of Good Conduct from the other jurisdictions we lived before (with residency) and despite the fact we had a copy of the Letter of Good Conduct from 2006, the US State Department official told us "no visa" and told us we had to obtain a new, "official" (certified with apostille) Letter of Good Conduct from Curaçao and we had one year to get that letter to the US Embassy.

Everything perfect except one silly piece of paper as they would not accept the copy of the letter from 2006.

I hired another attorney (a friend for many years who lives in Miami but still practices in Curaçao) to attempt to get this letter from Curaçao with no luck and soooooo.....

At an expense that added up to almost $10,000, Cristina and I went through the process to become residents again of Curaçao... all and only so that she could register in the civil registry so as to be allowed to ask for and obtain this silly Letter of Good Conduct and in the form we were required by the US State Department to obtain. We finally got the Letter in late August of 2016. We then spent 6 panicked weeks trying to get the Embassy to give Cristina and Alejandra an appointment - we even hired a Colombian attorney to assist. Cristina got the call from the US Embassy on Monday, October 3, 2016 from Bogota and was told she and Alejandra had to get their vaccinations (lovely) again as they expire after 6 months. Our deadline, we were told, was Thursday, October 13 (not the 15th as we had thought). Cristina and Alejandra flew to Bogota (from their home in Medellin) the next day.

The Embassy gave her an appointment for 11:00 AM Friday, October 7, 2016. Cristina and Alejandra got the shots on Thursday, October 6 BUT! the doctor's office told her that by agreement with the US Embassy, the doctor had 24 hours to provide them the paperwork regarding the shots that we had to take back to the Embassy. It was late afternoon and the embassy appointment was at 11:00 AM the next morning and we feared they would not give her another one for Monday. The receptionist was adamant they would have to wait. Yet she went ahead and asked the doctor anyways and thankfully the doctor was kind enough to agree to process the paperwork then and there (Cristina got the papers at 8:15 PM meaning the doctor stayed late to get it all done for her and Alejandra).

Cristina and Aleja got to the Embassy the next morning and provided the papers - 6 days before the deadline. If we had failed to meet the deadline, we would have had to start all over again. Which we would have done anyways.

I shared all these details for a reason. All the above occurred prior to the 2016 US presidential election. I was born in the US and am a US citizen. I married Cristina on August 28, 2002. Despite all that, despite all that I shared above as to paper work. All of the hell we went through (and barely achieved our goal) all came about during the previous administration.

The nastiness regarding legal immigration began long, long ago... and got quite difficult for those who wished to achieve legal immigration sometime in the late 2000s according to the three immigration attorneys I have spoken with here in the US, one being the one I mentioned above, another being Francisco Hernandez (who offices in Fort Worth and who appears often on national TV news).

The case of my wife and step-daughter's immigration experience is just one experience and is anecdotal. Regardless of that, legal immigration got much, much harder for anyone that was immigrating and was in relationship to a US citizen as of the late 2000s. Just for the record.

Chris
19th July 2019, 13:38
I heard many stories about the US (legal) immigration system. It really is a nightmare.

However, most countries are almost as bad. The one country I know of that does immigration as painlessly and efficiently as possible is Singapore. It really is a marvel of good governance and civic service. The big difference that I noticed compared to almost every other country on earth is that civil servants treat you like a client, as if you were paying them to do their jobs, which of course, indirectly, you are.

Getting my employment pass there (which is a precursor to permanent residency) was the least painful bureaucratic procedure I ever had to go through. I think it took a couple of days for the paperwork to clear and for me to get my Employment Pass, which is an actual picture ID that you can even scan at airport to get through customs automatically and with no waiting. I remember being actually shocked at how easy and quick it was.

NotAPretender
20th July 2019, 16:21
Hey Sammy,

I get it...Remember that the people you deal with on a daily basis are professional civil servants...lifers...It is hard to do such research but I'm willing to be that many of the existing workforce have held their positions since the Reagan Era. It is from the top that the workers are imbued with their 'sense' of civil right and wrong. They just keep chugging along until they are done. This exactly points more repurcussions to the sense of right and wrong that is instilled in newbies. That sense will guide their actions for the next 40 years.

I actually got such an individual once to admit that they had been instructed (from the top) to not offer any suggestions of help to anyone in need (During the Reagan administration).

NotAPretender
21st July 2019, 15:56
I heard many stories about the US (legal) immigration system. It really is a nightmare.

However, most countries are almost as bad. The one country I know of that does immigration as painlessly and efficiently as possible is Singapore. It really is a marvel of good governance and civic service. The big difference that I noticed compared to almost every other country on earth is that civil servants treat you like a client, as if you were paying them to do their jobs, which of course, indirectly, you are.

Getting my employment pass there (which is a precursor to permanent residency) was the least painful bureaucratic procedure I ever had to go through. I think it took a couple of days for the paperwork to clear and for me to get my Employment Pass, which is an actual picture ID that you can even scan at airport to get through customs automatically and with no waiting. I remember being actually shocked at how easy and quick it was.

Interesting, The Department of Transportation has traditionally been a serious nightmare...it is a long standing American joke...My last experience was this past January and it was a dream by comparison...the difference was remarkable....almost as great a difference as I see in my Comcast TV service experiences. :)

Sammy
23rd July 2019, 21:16
I cannot explain why this community means so much to me. I really can't explain it... but it does.

I will have an important update and all will become clear Wednesday afternoon.

This is to be delayed until Thursday evening late (or Friday morning).

Sammy
27th July 2019, 18:21
All's well now... Thanks for ya'lls support.

Aianawa
28th July 2019, 07:43
Baited breath lol, good to hear Sammy.

Sammy
28th July 2019, 19:00
Though I would like to share the story, unfortunately "wisdom" suggests I just share that all is well. Our friend, Aragorn, has been very helpful in this regard and I thank him and TOT.

And sooooo.... back to "matters at hand."

Octopus Garden
28th July 2019, 21:07
Hi Sammy,

I am so happy all is well. It sounds like you have had a very tough time. Blessings.:)

Sammy
30th July 2019, 20:53
I have a question -

Is "not wanting something to be true" (especially when it is an avalanche of 'somethings' that are mostly true and/or turn out to be accurate/true) give us the right to call it "a hoax?"

giovonni
30th July 2019, 21:16
I have a question -

Is "not wanting something to be true" (especially when it is an avalanche of 'somethings' that are mostly true and/or turn out to be accurate/true) give us the right to call it "a hoax?"

IMO ...

It might be convenient (for a while), but if one is being truly honest (with oneself) the inevitable truth (s) should always prevail in defining the reality and consequences of the (universal) facts.

giovonni
31st July 2019, 00:43
hoax (hōks)
n.
1. An act intended to deceive or trick.
2. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means.
tr.v. hoaxed, hoax·ing, hoax·es
To deceive or cheat by using a hoax.

Perpetrating or just participating in the promotion/deception of a hoax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax)can be complicated matter -
especially when dealing with the moral intended purpose ...

What say ye my fellow members ?

Aragorn
31st July 2019, 01:04
Perpetrating or just participating in the promotion/deception of a hoax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoax)can be complicated matter -
especially when dealing with the moral intended purpose ...

What say ye my fellow members ?

It's a very complicated matter, because when dealing with a hoax, and especially one that has been well organized and that has become widespread, then the simple fact that the general public doesn't have all the information and/or lacks an understanding of the principles that this hoax would be obfuscating ─ which is often a matter of an educational deficiency (as in the case of the Flat Earth meme) ─ will inevitably lead to a self-reinforcing effect. People will start seeing connections and patterns that aren't there, and before anyone realizes, you've got an entire population living by a false belief system ─ an insular culture.

Therefore, in my opinion, anyone who perpetrates a large-scale hoax for whatever reasons, is behaving unethically, unless the hoax is intended as a bona fide joke and the perpetrators eventually confess to said hoax within a reasonable time span.

Alas, deception, manipulation and transgression are everywhere nowadays, and I have this feeling that evil is ramping up its activity. As if we're genuinely headed for an Armageddon of some sorts. Off of the forum, I've been talking with some friends regarding very traumatic and traumatizing events in their lives, and what's even worse is that these evil events seem to be repeating themselves, but every time with different perpetrators.

There's something cosmic going on that I can't put a finer point to, but it's either way alarming. :hmm:

Chris
1st August 2019, 15:27
There's something cosmic going on that I can't put a finer point to, but it's either way alarming. :hmm:

I'll second that.

I think everyone who's paying attention to world and current affairs intuitively knows that something big is afoot, but nobody can really elaborate on it in detail.

I personally think that we are transitioning to a new world age as we speak, the old world order is coming to an end and a new one is being created. That brings both danger and opportunity.

I am somewhat optimistic that the new world that is being born will be a better one, on the other hand, it will come at considerable pain and a high cost. It is possible that the world a few decades hence will be one we wouldn't even recognise today, in both good and bad ways. My feeling is that the world population will be a fraction of what it is today. There will be major earth changes, continents, rivers, climatic zones shifting, that sort of thing. However, the new world will be a better one than what we have today, for those that manage to make the transition.

Our species is going through an evolutionary upgrade as we speak. Those that evolve, will survive, those that don't and remain stuck in their old ways, won't. It is harsh, but that is nature doing its work.

Dreamtimer
1st August 2019, 19:34
Marianne Williamson talked about a dark energy in the political debates. Despite the fact that she's an outlier in terms of who is considered a potentially winning candidate, she is getting a good bit of media attention.



“This is part of the dark underbelly of American society, the racism, the bigotry, and the entire conversation that we’re having here tonight. If you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivized hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I’m afraid that [we] are going to see some very dark days,” she said in the second Democratic debate Tuesday night.

NotAPretender
1st August 2019, 22:05
I think she might be easy to misunderstand....she doesn't want to 'alienate' anybody that thinks in pragmatic terms...when she said 'dark psychic force' she was absolutely correct but I think what she was referring to was what has always been present but with no one willing to acknowledge the obvious. I don't think she was trying to 'go deeper than that' but even the awareness of such a thing is evidence that people are aware, it is just that no one has ever had the nerve to address it at any level even the common 'mental energy' of evil.

Sammy
2nd August 2019, 15:01
[Regarding Marianne Williamson] I think there may be a correlation between those who would be doing Google searches and those who might understand "psychic forces."

What I am suggesting is that there is a slice of the (American and perhaps "world") pie that would watch those debates. Within that slice is a sub-slice that would be stimulated by her responses to learn more about her. It is my contention that this particular sub-slice would be made of a larger proportion of folks (as opposed to humanity as a whole) that are "into" a world view of reality which holds dear the psychic element (and might even, like myself, have the view that consciousness holds primacy) and thus to conclude she is the most "interesting" candidate might overlook this correlation (and more comprehensive explanation).

I like her because, for me, she is incredibly attractive. And because I know that many folks who just read my truthful statement may take my comment in a way I do not at all whatsoever mean, I will explain it. - Her energy, for me, is super cool... thus attractive. Her intelligence is (and I mean "intelligence" at all levels of being) is revealed to me more and more as I watch her performances. It is my opinion that these qualities happen to play a role in her physical beauty as well, but even at that level of her being... it is not a "snapshot" beauty I am referring to... it is her "living way" she shines through her physical being.

But understand that I am well aware she has no shot. Also, I am unsure that in the world we live in today that she would be the best president.

Aragorn
3rd August 2019, 05:50
[Regarding Marianne Williamson] I think there may be a correlation between those who would be doing Google searches and those who might understand "psychic forces."

What I am suggesting is that there is a slice of the (American and perhaps "world") pie that would watch those debates. Within that slice is a sub-slice that would be stimulated by her responses to learn more about her. It is my contention that this particular sub-slice would be made of a larger proportion of folks (as opposed to humanity as a whole) that are "into" a world view of reality which holds dear the psychic element (and might even, like myself, have the view that consciousness holds primacy) and thus to conclude she is the most "interesting" candidate might overlook this correlation (and more comprehensive explanation).

I like her because, for me, she is incredibly attractive. And because I know that many folks who just read my truthful statement may take my comment in a way I do not at all whatsoever mean, I will explain it. - Her energy, for me, is super cool... thus attractive. Her intelligence is (and I mean "intelligence" at all levels of being) is revealed to me more and more as I watch her performances. It is my opinion that these qualities happen to play a role in her physical beauty as well, but even at that level of her being... it is not a "snapshot" beauty I am referring to... it is her "living way" she shines through her physical being.

But understand that I am well aware she has no shot. Also, I am unsure that in the world we live in today that she would be the best president.

I agree with 99.9% of what you've stated here-above, Brother, except for your last sentence, i.e. that she would not be the best president right now.

Marianne obviously wants to clean out the swamp that is the bipartisan US political system, and the dominance of the corporate and military-industrial world over said system. She'd have a hell of a job before her if she makes it into the White House, but she is the only candidate with the resolve to do it. Donald Trump promised the American people that he'd do it, but he's not doing it at all. He's simply using the system to his own advantage, and kicking out anyone who stands in his way ─ not the "in the way of democracy", or "in the way of justice", or "in the way of the American people".

Donald Trump can also not take credit for the fact that Jeffrey Epstein was now finally arrested ─ that credit goes to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies who've been investigating him. But of course, this will once again be something Trump will brag about as being his accomplishment, and thus as an anecdotal "proof" of his promise to clean out the swamp. Because he's a shameless opportunist and a narcissist, and he knows how to use such things to his advantage.

What the USA needs ─ and right now ─ is Marianne Williamson. She's the only one of the Democratic candidates who's got integrity, because like Donald Trump, she too comes from outside of the political establishment, but contrary to Trump, Marianne comes from a far less depraved environment, namely the environment of the spiritually aware. And unlike Hillary Clinton's politics, Marianne's politics are truly feminine. Hillary may be a woman, but when it comes to her intended (national and international) policies, then she's "one of the boys" ─ "We're the United States of God Bless America and you will do as we say or we'll fuck you up big time, hurrrahh!" ("We came, we saw, and he died." -- Hillary Clinton about Muammar Gaddafi.)

America needs Marianne Williamson, and it needs her now. Also, bear in mind that she's already 67 now ─ I thought to have read that she was only 60, and she certainly doesn't look her age ─ and that therefore, if she does win and if she then gets to serve two full terms in office, then she'd be in her late 70s by the time she leaves the White House. And that's an age where health problems can become real obstacles.

So she cannot afford to wait any longer, and considering the circumstances, I would say that the American people cannot afford to wait any longer. Because either it's Marianne now, or it's going to be yet another status-quo candidate from the US Democratic Party who would be up against Donald J. Trump and Mike Pence, and then whoever wins, nothing's ever going to change.

Obama promised change but didn't deliver. Trump promised change, but the change he's brought the American people is exactly the opposite of what was needed, and as such, with every passing day in the White House, he's only making things even worse than they already were. Marianne promises change, and her vocalization of her promises is a hell of a lot more concise and determinate than smooth-talking Obama's promises ever were.

I'm not a US American, and I detest politics ─ I've briefly been involved with it over here in the Flanders, and I've seen enough from the sideline as a public servant as well ─ but here's what I think...: get Marianne Williamson into the White House in 2020, because you'll never get this chance again if you don't, and you really cannot afford to wait for yet another four years just to get yet another status-quo president who'll only make idle promises again while the Mussolini-wannabe with the fake hair and the fake teeth is turning the USA into a jungle in the meantime while priding himself over just how wonderful he is.

Aianawa
3rd August 2019, 09:54
I TOTally disagree with you Aragorn on the Trump stuff and 100 % agree with MW assessment.

PS can take a wee while for people to get past that's impossible but we can do that, lots of time and as Sammy says she is good and the universe created her for now ( you say that Sammy ? ).

Chris
3rd August 2019, 12:08
The cynic in me would say that a Hippie Chick such as MW could never, in a thousand years, win an election in the US.

Yeah sure, she might win votes in the West Coast, but in the US heartlands she would be seen and depicted as the Whore of Babylon.

New age is pretty much universally accepted as Satanic in those parts. Remember how they hated Hillary, even though she was a centrist and a war hawk. Remember the furore that was created around her linking her to satanism and child sacrificing paedophilia. Those people would have a field day with this gal, I'm afraid.

NotAPretender
3rd August 2019, 14:16
The propaganda has already started Chris, I mentioned her to a Z'er Indian Muslim yesterday and he did a quick look...First link up was on Patreon with some guy's headline stating all of the things you mentioned and 'Area 51'. Not seconds before that I had mentioned she was the candidate of choice for the 'Area 51' crowd... :)

In truth, she reminds me of myself and I would be the last person to recommend for the Presidency, despite having accumulated several votes over the years... :)

Sammy
3rd August 2019, 14:40
I TOTally disagree with you Aragorn on the Trump stuff and 100 % agree with MW assessment.

PS can take a wee while for people to get past that's impossible but we can do that, lots of time and as Sammy says she is good and the universe created her for now ( you say that Sammy ? ).

My statement that I don't think she would be the best US President for 2020 has everything to do with my understanding as to how the world works. I could write a longer post than Aragorn's post #144 about this but by now, I would expect participants on this forum and the Jr. forum (PA) to have a pretty good clue about all this.

First, she has ZERO shot to be president for one major reason (among dozens of others) - she likely can't be "owned." No one gets to be President of the US (and this is the case for decades) if they can't be "owned." Yes, a President would have some wiggle room to appear as if they are their own man (or woman in this case) and I just don't see MW as "ownable."

Folks, I really don't want to sound like a spoil sport, but... and perhaps I really should just keep my mouth shut but... this world of ours is truly, completely wired in a way a.) most of the public really don't know and b.) most of the public really don't want to know.

So IMO if MW became the nominee they wouldn't let her win and/or she would be "voided" by some "sore loser, white guy, Trump supporter" so her hand selected VP could take over (someone who would be 'on the team'). And then there would be movies made about it,.. even a series on Netfix (ooops, I truly, accidentally misspelled it but decided to leave it as I wrote it - haha). By then, all the "love / lighters" will be semi-satisfied as her legend will live on like Dr. King, et al.

And we'll continue the march further down the path of a.) personal computers / b.) holdables / c.) wearables / d.) biohacking/implantables (becoming known as "Grinders") where once e.) "The Chip" is willingly (and in many cases, enthusiastically) attached to our brains, unharnessed (uncontrolled) individuated human consciousness will be possessed only by a tiny few (elite of the elite) and guess what? You and I and our descendants will not be in that group.

Now I don't make odds on this happening at 100% (I never make odds better or worse than 1% and 99% respectively) but with the human race at the state and stage I observe it to be at now (me included by the way), I make odds well over 95%.

Unless... unless... well, hummmmm... a miracle?

If so, it would be us who would have to pull it off (IMO) as I don't rely on perceived third parties.

[For those interested in where this is all going... check out this link here (https://www.sitepoint.com/6-ways-wearables-are-moving-inside-the-body/)]


…the possibility of implanting technology in the body and will pave the way for more advanced and functional augmentations.

Aragorn
4th August 2019, 00:26
…the possibility of implanting technology in the body and will pave the way for more advanced and functional augmentations.

Yeah, like spamming you while you're asleep and using your cybernetic brain to mine Bitcoins. Oh, and ransomware ─ if you don't pay up, your child's brain will remain catatonic for the rest of their life. :fpalm:

No thanks, I'll stick with my biological grey mass. ;) ("Meat. They're made of meat." :p)

Sammy
4th August 2019, 09:40
Yeah, like spamming you while you're asleep and using your cybernetic brain to mine Bitcoins. Oh, and ransomware ─ if you don't pay up, your child's brain will remain catatonic for the rest of their life. :fpalm:

Or... hacking "thoughts" such that "six ways from Sunday" tactics would be the result - influencing the political will of the populous by "cyber-inciting" mass shootings.

Sammy
4th August 2019, 21:39
I remember 8, 10, 15 years ago when the alternative community (in general) seemed to have a much better handle on the big picture. I miss those days. Perhaps our openness made it easier for those who wish to thwart a consciousness shift (for the better for all) to find ways to divide us.

Should I be surprised the community has, for the most part, succumbed to Machiavelli 101 divide et impera?

Sammy
5th August 2019, 13:47
The more and more man severs the ties to conscious union with Life, the more and more discord manifests.

All manifestations of discord emanate from this primary action. It is an action that occurs at all levels of man’s being, physical, emotional, mental and spiritual.

Sammy
5th August 2019, 14:53
[moved from another thread as it is better suited here]


Looks like your QAnon buddies are going to have to find themselves another playground, Vern. Cloudflare has terminated their service for 8chan (https://new.blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/) in light of the recent mass shootings by right-wing extremists.

There's no possible way that 8chan would (and should) remain up based on that which was stated by Cloudflare (which I have to assume is true or largely true).

But note that Twitter (or whatever platform they run on - if it is not their own) remains up and will remain up despite this (https://www.breitbart.com/crime/2019/08/04/twitter-suspends-allegedly-ohio-shooter/).

And so you get all sorts of people on Twitter blaming both events on the actual target of the "ops" - a boogey man that indeed has real human beings saying and writing words along with performing other types of actions that allow the "AREs" to foment a meme "white supremacism" as if it were far, far larger than the reality and all for the purpose of raising the odds Trump doesn't win a second term. This is just one of the "six ways" being employed by the AREs and as an odds maker by trade, I make odds that Trump is reelected at less than 20%.

What is sad to me is that all sorts of genuinely good folk have to unjustly suffer for this massive mess... and I am referring to the "clears" - meaning folks who have no 'shade' or 'color' at the level of their soul - not to be confused with how Scientology uses the word (they don't own the word either by the way). I strive to be one of the clears and do not claim to be fully clear.

Here's an example (https://www.theroot.com/whitesupremacistterrorism-hashtag-takes-over-twitter-1836949240) of how both events are being framed as the result of the latest hashtag to dominate Twitter - #WhiteSupremacistTerrorism.

Note that this article is right at the top of a Google search and, of course, further implants the false meme.

The goal is (for the US) to achieve laws that reflect those of the UK and Australia to name a few. It is (for me) impossible that changes have to occur and ASAP. Yes, guns don't kill people... people kill people, but it is far too easy for dangerous people to have these weapons and it is far to easy for people who appear reasonably stable today to emerge as lunatics tomorrow.

Why I wrote this post is simply to attempt to open the eyes of a few readers here (if they are not already open or if they can be further opened) so that a few of us could discuss what is actually going on. Something I would really enjoy doing, personally.

Sammy
5th August 2019, 15:16
The discussion I would like to suggest we have is... is it justifiable to use the tactics that are being used to raise the odds the larger US population would go for new legislation (which would also be enforced) that might result in the type of shift in gun regulation such as Australia implemented in the late 90s?

Let me be clearer.

If the AREs have planned to disarm the general populous of the planet (and/or specifically in the US), is there anything the general populous can do to stop it?

If "in their pocket" media, "in their pocket" politicians, "in their pocket" career bureaucrats, "in their pocket" military, "in their pocket" intelligence agencies, and "in their pocket" mafias are all on board with the goal (as appears to be the case), whether we (as the general populous) are for or against the goal, should we fight against the goal if we are against the goal?

These are the types of questions I would like to explore... anyone up for it here on ToT?

Aragorn
5th August 2019, 15:54
The discussion I would like to suggest we have is... is it justifiable to use the tactics that are being used to raise the odds the larger US population would go for new legislation (which would also be enforced) that might result in the type of shift in gun regulation such as Australia implemented in the late 90s?

Let me be clearer.

If the AREs have planned to disarm the general populous of the planet (and/or specifically in the US), is there anything the general populous can do to stop it?

If "in their pocket" media, "in their pocket" politicians, "in their pocket" career bureaucrats, "in their pocket" military, "in their pocket" intelligence agencies, and "in their pocket" mafias are all on board with the goal (as appears to be the case), whether we (as the general populous) are for or against the goal, should we fight against the goal if we are against the goal?

These are the types of questions I would like to explore... anyone up for it here on ToT?


Well, all I can say in that regard is that I personally support the right to arm bears the right to bear arms, but that unregulated gun possession has proven itself too dangerous to continue being supported. The system we have here in Europe is not exactly the best one either, in my opinion. On the contrary, it ensures that the good people will be hesitant to apply for a license, while the black market provides the evildoers with all the firearms they need.

What I would propose is that first and foremost, all functional firearms that are sold would be registered. There is a black market trade in firearms that had their serial numbers filed off, but such weapons will be more expensive, even for the criminals, and they are also harder to come by. The second thing I would propose is that there would be a proper training in the use ─ and in the discouragement of actual deployment ─ of firearms.

Right now, we've got a highly bureaucratic system in place here in Europe ─ I'm familiar with some of it because my brother is currently in training to become a licensed hunter, and some of those trainers are assholes who enjoy bullying the trainees, and who think they know everything best when they don't ─ but a thorough course in gun safety should be mandatory in a country like the USA that supports gun ownership for every citizen. And a gun should also always be kept in a safe, and not where your ten-year-old son can find it and take it with him to school the next day to "fix up" those bullies who've been pestering him for Providence knows how long.

Another thing, which is only sideways related, but it is related nevertheless, is a complete overhaul of the education system, and the abolition of American Exceptionalist propaganda. But it's going to take more than that, because the education system only affects those who are still in the education system. It does not affect the adults out there in society. And I'm afraid that I don't have any clear-cut answer on how to deal with that problem, because ─ and I hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes here ─ there is something fundamentally wrong with the whole of US American culture ─ which partly extends into Canada as well, given the very similar history of both Canada and the USA.

Europe is old. And Europe has committed many sins in the past. It is actually committing sins even today still. But Europe has learned from its past mistakes, because it has had the time to do so. The USA didn't, and doesn't. The USA is only some 200+ years old, and has made even worse mistakes than Europe ─ e.g. the genocide against the native Americans, the abduction and enslavement of Africans, and the deployment of two nuclear bombs during World War II while Japan was already on the brink of capitulation, given that their logistics supply from Nazi-Germany had been cut off.

And yet the USA thinks it's the greatest country in the world ─ a delusional belief made possible by US American culture, which dictates that manufactured appearances can be accepted for truth. The USA is the land of make-believe, and its insular culture keeps it trapped in that delusion. And this has led to...


widespread obesity ─ more than half of all US Americans are clinically overweight;
disrespect for human life and interpersonal relationships ─ human beings have become consumables;
disregard for ethics in favor of personal opportunity;
consumerist frenzies ─ "Black Friday";
Christian fundamentalism; and...
a dumbed-down population whose average IQ sits about 15 to 30 points below the global average.

Donald Trump, and all those who still support him, are only a consequence of the above-listed circumstances. They didn't create those circumstances ─ the circumstances created them. And it is simply impossible to rectify this centuries-old cultural indoctrination with all the wrong values within a single generation, not in the very least because the US American people can't even see those values as being wrong.

And maybe, just maybe, that's why nobody's even bothering. Except for Marianne Williamson, who is the only one who's really willing to give it a shot ─ while she still has the chance and the time, because the clock keeps on ticking. If she doesn't make it to president-elect in November 2020, then all hope is lost. Because then it's either another four years of Donald Trump, or it's going to be another four (or maybe eight) years of yet another corruptible US Democrat who represents the status quo of the corporately controlled and corporately sponsored political elite, the always-trigger-happy Pentagon and the whole battalion of autocratic alphabet soup agencies ─ the "Deep State", if you will.

The system cannot be repaired. It has to be discarded and replaced by an entirely new design, from the ground up. There's no way around it. And 200 years of indoctrination are going to make sure that there's going to be a hell of a lot of opposition to such an incisive reform. "God bless America", because you guys are going to need all the blessings you can get. :hmm:

Just my two Eurocents worth of incoherent rambling. Or is it? :eyebrows:

NotAPretender
5th August 2019, 16:25
I think it is silly to obey a law that is contrary to one’s life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Honestly I wouldn’t. Ban all guns and for those that still feel the need can go through the black market. In a true democracy no court in the land would criminalize a person that could demonstrate a true need. Am I right or am I right

Sammy
5th August 2019, 16:56
@ Aragorn (but for all readers) -

Have you ever watched water being boiled? If so, you might have noticed that as the water is getting hotter and hotter, tiny bubbles begin to form within the water. At some point, an air bubble builds up enough mass and heat that it wells up to the surface and, once it reaches the surface, the bubble pops and releases the air into the atmosphere. see here (https://www.thoughtco.com/what-are-the-bubbles-in-boiling-water-4109061)

A student of our shared earthly reality understands that we, collectively, "boil the water" though taking a slice in time, one might point to a region of the world and say, "LOOK! - Here's the problem." This is what most folks seem to do (especially today). The USA is the current "big, bad bubble" and from a narrow perspective - one can make that case. Are folks on this forum able to see the bigger picture or do we sell out and feed the monster?

It is my opinion that doing so not only places the blame on others (which allows one to avoid their own personal responsibility) but also supports the myth of the victim class (I prefer to use the term - disadvantaged) which then leads to self appointed saviors who do things like "virtue signaling" or "our group is superior to your group" constructs which history has shown never result in true, permanent solutions. It only shifts the target area to a newly appointed "boogey man" and the human virus perpetuates.

There's plenty of blame for the world condition all over this planet. Isolating a convenient "bad guy" avoids solution.

IMO, David Icke (and others) had/have it right by suggesting that unless there's a humanity wide consciousness shift, nothing will change directionally (which appears to be down, down down at the moment). Just what the elite desire and we hand it to them on a silver platter.

Chris
5th August 2019, 19:25
Well, all I can say in that regard is that I personally support the right to arm bears the right to bear arms, but that unregulated gun possession has proven itself too dangerous to continue being supported. The system we have here in Europe is not exactly the best one either, in my opinion. On the contrary, it ensures that the good people will be hesitant to apply for a license, while the black market provides the evildoers with all the firearms they need.

What I would propose is that first and foremost, all functional firearms that are sold would be registered. There is a black market trade in firearms that had their serial numbers filed off, but such weapons will be more expensive, even for the criminals, and they are also harder to come by. The second thing I would propose is that there would be a proper training in the use ─ and in the discouragement of actual deployment ─ of firearms.

Right now, we've got a highly bureaucratic system in place here in Europe ─ I'm familiar with some of it because my brother is currently in training to become a licensed hunter, and some of those trainers are assholes who enjoy bullying the trainees, and who think they know everything best when they don't ─ but a thorough course in gun safety should be mandatory in a country like the USA that supports gun ownership for every citizen. And a gun should also always be kept in a safe, and not where your ten-year-old son can find it and take it with him to school the next day to "fix up" those bullies who've been pestering him for Providence knows how long.

Another thing, which is only sideways related, but it is related nevertheless, is a complete overhaul of the education system, and the abolition of American Exceptionalist propaganda. But it's going to take more than that, because the education system only affects those who are still in the education system. It does not affect the adults out there in society. And I'm afraid that I don't have any clear-cut answer on how to deal with that problem, because ─ and I hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes here ─ there is something fundamentally wrong with the whole of US American culture ─ which partly extends into Canada as well, given the very similar history of both Canada and the USA.

Europe is old. And Europe has committed many sins in the past. It is actually committing sins even today still. But Europe has learned from its past mistakes, because it has had the time to do so. The USA didn't, and doesn't. The USA is only some 200+ years old, and has made even worse mistakes than Europe ─ e.g. the genocide against the native Americans, the abduction and enslavement of Africans, and the deployment of two nuclear bombs during World War II while Japan was already on the brink of capitulation, given that their logistics supply from Nazi-Germany had been cut off.

And yet the USA thinks it's the greatest country in the world ─ a delusional belief made possible by US American culture, which dictates that manufactured appearances can be accepted for truth. The USA is the land of make-believe, and its insular culture keeps it trapped in that delusion. And this has led to...


widespread obesity ─ more than half of all US Americans are clinically overweight;
disrespect for human life and interpersonal relationships ─ human beings have become consumables;
disregard for ethics in favor of personal opportunity;
consumerist frenzies ─ "Black Friday";
Christian fundamentalism; and...
a dumbed-down population whose average IQ sits about 15 to 30 points below the global average.

Donald Trump, and all those who still support him, are only a consequence of the above-listed circumstances. They didn't create those circumstances ─ the circumstances created them. And it is simply impossible to rectify this centuries-old cultural indoctrination with all the wrong values within a single generation, not in the very least because the US American people can't even see those values as being wrong.

And maybe, just maybe, that's why nobody's even bothering. Except for Marianne Williamson, who is the only one who's really willing to give it a shot ─ while she still has the chance and the time, because the clock keeps on ticking. If she doesn't make it to president-elect in November 2020, then all hope is lost. Because then it's either another four years of Donald Trump, or it's going to be another four (or maybe eight) years of yet another corruptible US Democrat who represents the status quo of the corporately controlled and corporately sponsored political elite, the always-trigger-happy Pentagon and the whole battalion of autocratic alphabet soup agencies ─ the "Deep State", if you will.

The system cannot be repaired. It has to be discarded and replaced by an entirely new design, from the ground up. There's no way around it. And 200 years of indoctrination are going to make sure that there's going to be a hell of a lot of opposition to such an incisive reform. "God bless America", because you guys are going to need all the blessings you can get. :hmm:

Just my two Eurocents worth of incoherent rambling. Or is it? :eyebrows:

I'm sorry Aragorn, but there are so many inaccuracies or downright falsehoods in your post above, that I don't even know where to start.

This sort of attitude is typical of European Liberals and Leftists and it constitutes a bubble of misinformation in and of itself.

Just to take two examples at random, the average IQ in the US is 98, about par for the Western world, but well above the world average, which is around 84 according to the latest estimates. The country with the highest average IQ is Singapore at 114, but that number is skewed due to an immigration system that favours highly skilled immigrants and Singapore is more of a city than an actual country. You can look up Richard Lynn's work, if you want to check the numbers yourself, I am writing from memory here.

Another misconception is that the US is a young country, that is again a supposed "fact" that is simply not true. In actual fact the USA is one of the oldest countries in the world, dating back to the late 18th century. By contrast, most supposedly "old" countries, such as the Russian Federation, The People's Republic of China or the Republic of India, are only a few decades old. There are only a handful of countries that are older than the USA, such as Iceland or the UK. Even most European countries are extremely young and the states that existed more or less on their territory in previous decades or centuries are now defunct. The US is indeed exceptional, in that it managed to keep its statehood and political system intact for well over two centuries, a momentous achievement compared to most countries and territories in the world. In fact, the biggest problem the US has right now is that its system of government is decidedly antiquated and stuck in the 18th century, with the electoral college being the most obvious example of how it needs to be overhauled and modernised. The 2nd amendment, created at a time of muskets and revolutionaries in powdered wigs, is another such anachronism.

NotAPretender
5th August 2019, 21:01
Richard Lynn - as John McEnroe once exclaimed “You can’t be serious!”

Aianawa
5th August 2019, 21:35
For myself the world is changing so so fast, evolving well also n fast, Sammy so much steam is settling, reforming, creating, knowing that the boiling process was but their freedom becoming and what now the words uttered upon knowing they not be alone, a lake is happening.

Aragorn
6th August 2019, 04:03
I think it is silly to obey a law that is contrary to one’s life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Honestly I wouldn’t. Ban all guns and for those that still feel the need can go through the black market. In a true democracy no court in the land would criminalize a person that could demonstrate a true need. Am I right or am I right

Ban all the guns, and the only ones who'll still have (and use) them will be criminals, power-hungry and trigger-happy cops, and the military-industrial complex. Is that really the world you would want to live in?






[...]

Another thing, which is only sideways related, but it is related nevertheless, is a complete overhaul of the education system, and the abolition of American Exceptionalist propaganda. But it's going to take more than that, because the education system only affects those who are still in the education system. It does not affect the adults out there in society. And I'm afraid that I don't have any clear-cut answer on how to deal with that problem, because ─ and I hope I'm not stepping on anybody's toes here ─ there is something fundamentally wrong with the whole of US American culture ─ which partly extends into Canada as well, given the very similar history of both Canada and the USA.

Europe is old. And Europe has committed many sins in the past. It is actually committing sins even today still. But Europe has learned from its past mistakes, because it has had the time to do so. The USA didn't, and doesn't. The USA is only some 200+ years old, and has made even worse mistakes than Europe ─ e.g. the genocide against the native Americans, the abduction and enslavement of Africans, and the deployment of two nuclear bombs during World War II while Japan was already on the brink of capitulation, given that their logistics supply from Nazi-Germany had been cut off.

And yet the USA thinks it's the greatest country in the world ─ a delusional belief made possible by US American culture, which dictates that manufactured appearances can be accepted for truth. The USA is the land of make-believe, and its insular culture keeps it trapped in that delusion. And this has led to...


widespread obesity ─ more than half of all US Americans are clinically overweight;
disrespect for human life and interpersonal relationships ─ human beings have become consumables;
disregard for ethics in favor of personal opportunity;
consumerist frenzies ─ "Black Friday";
Christian fundamentalism; and...
a dumbed-down population whose average IQ sits about 15 to 30 points below the global average.

Donald Trump, and all those who still support him, are only a consequence of the above-listed circumstances. They didn't create those circumstances ─ the circumstances created them. And it is simply impossible to rectify this centuries-old cultural indoctrination with all the wrong values within a single generation, not in the very least because the US American people can't even see those values as being wrong.

And maybe, just maybe, that's why nobody's even bothering. Except for Marianne Williamson, who is the only one who's really willing to give it a shot ─ while she still has the chance and the time, because the clock keeps on ticking. If she doesn't make it to president-elect in November 2020, then all hope is lost. Because then it's either another four years of Donald Trump, or it's going to be another four (or maybe eight) years of yet another corruptible US Democrat who represents the status quo of the corporately controlled and corporately sponsored political elite, the always-trigger-happy Pentagon and the whole battalion of autocratic alphabet soup agencies ─ the "Deep State", if you will.

The system cannot be repaired. It has to be discarded and replaced by an entirely new design, from the ground up. There's no way around it. And 200 years of indoctrination are going to make sure that there's going to be a hell of a lot of opposition to such an incisive reform. "God bless America", because you guys are going to need all the blessings you can get. :hmm:

Just my two Eurocents worth of incoherent rambling. Or is it? :eyebrows:

I'm sorry Aragorn, but there are so many inaccuracies or downright falsehoods in your post above, that I don't even know where to start.

This sort of attitude is typical of European Liberals and Leftists and it constitutes a bubble of misinformation in and of itself.

I'm afraid you're the one writing inaccuracies and falsehoods here, Chris.


Just to take two examples at random, the average IQ in the US is 98, about par for the Western world, but well above the world average, which is around 84 according to the latest estimates. The country with the highest average IQ is Singapore at 114, but that number is skewed due to an immigration system that favours highly skilled immigrants and Singapore is more of a city than an actual country. You can look up Richard Lynn's work, if you want to check the numbers yourself, I am writing from memory here.

The average IQ is always 100 for any given population, because that's what the meridian is calibrated against, and the meridian is always 100. And when it comes to IQ scores in the USA versus in the rest of the world, then someone with an IQ of 150 in the USA commonly corresponds to someone with an IQ of about 125-130 in Europe. This is a statistical fact. Likewise, Singapore and India score much better in the tests, so if you have an IQ of 125 in Singapore, then that would probably correspond to an IQ of 140-150 in Europe. But ─ and again, this is a documented fact ─ when the averages of all countries are compared on a single scale, then the USA doesn't even make the Top-10.

In the USA, it is also not uncommon for teenagers to be allowed to skip high school and enter college at the age of 15. But if you then compare the first four years of college training in the USA to Europe, then that's about on par with a European high school education in an academic direction ─ note: I'm not talking of the technical or professional branches of secondary school in Europe, because those have lower standards than the academic directions.


Another misconception is that the US is a young country, that is again a supposed "fact" that is simply not true. In actual fact the USA is one of the oldest countries in the world, dating back to the late 18th century. By contrast, most supposedly "old" countries, such as the Russian Federation, The People's Republic of China or the Republic of India, are only a few decades old. There are only a handful of countries that are older than the USA, such as Iceland or the UK. Even most European countries are extremely young and the states that existed more or less on their territory in previous decades or centuries are now defunct. The US is indeed exceptional, in that it managed to keep its statehood and political system intact for well over two centuries, a momentous achievement compared to most countries and territories in the world. In fact, the biggest problem the US has right now is that its system of government is decidedly antiquated and stuck in the 18th century, with the electoral college being the most obvious example of how it needs to be overhauled and modernised. The 2nd amendment, created at a time of muskets and revolutionaries in powdered wigs, is another such anachronism.

I'm afraid you've misread me, because you are talking about countries in the sense of politically established nations with borders and governments, while I am talking of countries in the sense of the cultures that inhabit them.

To give you an example, the Belgians as a people have been around from long before the Roman Empire came along, albeit that they lived in different groups ─ tribes, if you will ─ and with different means of housing and sustaining themselves, depending on the geology of the regions they inhabited. Some lived in huts, others lived in houses on wooden poles. Some were fishermen, others were hunter-gatherers, and yet others were farmers. And when the Romans were trying to occupy these lands, the different tribes all united and fought back as one army.

Julius Ceasar even wrote that the Belgians were the bravest of all the Gauls ─ the Romans considered what is now called Belgium as part of Gaul (or Gallia), i.e. that which is now called France. Yet, Belgium only declared its independence in 1830, and was only officially recognized as an independent nation in 1839.

Together with the Belgians and the other Gauls, there were also the Norsemen, the Saxons, and many other ancient European peoples. And the vikings had already sailed to the Americas roughly some 800 years before Columbus ever set foot there. The sophistication of Chinese culture was also well-known, and easily dates back 4'000 years. Likewise for the various Arabic cultures, the ancient Greek, and so on.

The USA and Canada on the other hand were initially created as colonies of the British Crown and of France ─ to a far lesser extent, there were also Dutch colonists. The original cultures of North America were what we call the Native Americans today ─ and what Columbus mistakenly called Indians, because he didn't know of the existence of the Americas and he thought he had arrived in India ─ and they were overrun, decimated, driven into reservations, and their land was stolen out from underneath them. Most of what makes up the US population today are the descendants of European immigrants, the slaves they abducted from Africa, and to a lesser extent also the Chinese laborers who were lured to North America by the railway companies ─ their fate wasn't much better than that of the slaves.

Fred Steeves
6th August 2019, 10:59
Aragorn, have you ever been to the US, walked amongst us, to have these consistantly very strong, and rather condescending opinions of us?

As an aside, maybe there has been just an invention or two from here that have revolutionized the world through and through, even to the benefit of our superior Euro brothers and sisters. Can we at least get props for people like Nikola Tesla that gave us A/C electricity? Or the Wright brothers that gave us flight?

Aragorn
6th August 2019, 12:41
Aragorn, have you ever been to the US, walked amongst us, to have these consistantly very strong, and rather condescending opinions of us?

That's the age-old non-sequitur knee-jerk response, Fred. One does not have to have visited a country in order to know what that country is like from the cultural perspective. But as it just so happens to be, I do have several friends who've visited there multiple times, and I also have friends who live there, as well as friends who used to live there.

Our education system also encompasses very thorough (and propaganda-free) history classes on just about every place in the world, from elementary school all the way through high school ─ or at least, when you've chosen an academic orientation for middle school and high school. The technical orientation also has history classes, but far less extensive, and I believe the professional orientation doesn't have any history classes at all ─ they only have one day in class per week in high school, and the rest of the week they have to work as interns.

In addition to that, it's not like the rest of the world knows as little about the USA as the US population on average knows about the rest of the world. You've been exporting your culture for decades now, politically, economically, artistically, militarily, and so on.


As an aside, maybe there has been just an invention or two from here that have revolutionized the world through and through, even to the benefit of our superior Euro brothers and sisters. Can we at least get props for people like Nikola Tesla that gave us A/C electricity? Or the Wright brothers that gave us flight?

There have certainly been exceptional individuals, yes, but they are hardly representative for the entire population, nor does that say anything at all about US culture. But for that matter, Nikola Tesla was an immigrant ─ he was from Serbia. Albert Einstein was also an immigrant ─ he was originally German, but he was Jewish, and so he fled Germany when the Nazis rose to power. And the Wright brothers did indeed give you winged flight, but it was the Montgolfier brothers who went up in the first balloon, which is also a form of flight.

Balloons were themselves also not a thing of the West, because they had already been invented in the Far East, where they were and are still being used in rituals where the people release hundreds if not thousands of air-buoyant paper lanterns. Likewise, it was Alfred Nobel who invented dynamite, but the Chinese had already long been using gunpowder before the West had even heard of it.

Just because I criticize US culture doesn't mean you have to take it personal, Fred. Also, I'm only criticizing the bad parts of US culture. I'm not criticizing the good parts, nor have I ever said that there weren't any of those either.

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 13:19
So I guess my American 155 is only kind of smart. I’ve long suspected that. My scores I read once are indicative of learning disability. My assessment/marker

Read: the dangers of unsystematic selection methods at research gate carefully. It’s interesting

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 13:27
I mentioned earlier the lowest verbal score I ever got was on the graduate record exam a 95 percentile but that score was good enough to get me past the entry level into “Colloquy” that can be looked up

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 14:45
I don’t know about u but I would have a gun a big and fast one

Aragorn
6th August 2019, 14:47
I don’t know about u but I would have a gun a big and fast one

It does pay off to include at least part of a quote in your posts, you know. Because now we don't know whom you're talking to. :)

Sammy
6th August 2019, 14:47
Sooooo, not a peep in relation to my analogy.

And so more and more bubbles percolate.

And the direction remains the same and stable.

I wish us well.

Chris
6th August 2019, 15:06
Ban all the guns, and the only ones who'll still have (and use) them will be criminals, power-hungry and trigger-happy cops, and the military-industrial complex. Is that really the world you would want to live in?






I'm afraid you're the one writing inaccuracies and falsehoods here, Chris.



The average IQ is always 100 for any given population, because that's what the meridian is calibrated against, and the meridian is always 100. And when it comes to IQ scores in the USA versus in the rest of the world, then someone with an IQ of 150 in the USA commonly corresponds to someone with an IQ of about 125-130 in Europe. This is a statistical fact. Likewise, Singapore and India score much better in the tests, so if you have an IQ of 125 in Singapore, then that would probably correspond to an IQ of 140-150 in Europe. But ─ and again, this is a documented fact ─ when the averages of all countries are compared on a single scale, then the USA doesn't even make the Top-10.

In the USA, it is also not uncommon for teenagers to be allowed to skip high school and enter college at the age of 15. But if you then compare the first four years of college training in the USA to Europe, then that's about on par with a European high school education in an academic direction ─ note: I'm not talking of the technical or professional branches of secondary school in Europe, because those have lower standards than the academic directions.



I'm afraid you've misread me, because you are talking about countries in the sense of politically established nations with borders and governments, while I am talking of countries in the sense of the cultures that inhabit them.

To give you an example, the Belgians as a people have been around from long before the Roman Empire came along, albeit that they lived in different groups ─ tribes, if you will ─ and with different means of housing and sustaining themselves, depending on the geology of the regions they inhabited. Some lived in huts, others lived in houses on wooden poles. Some were fishermen, others were hunter-gatherers, and yet others were farmers. And when the Romans were trying to occupy these lands, the different tribes all united and fought back as one army.

Julius Ceasar even wrote that the Belgians were the bravest of all the Gauls ─ the Romans considered what is now called Belgium as part of Gaul (or Gallia), i.e. that which is now called France. Yet, Belgium only declared its independence in 1830, and was only officially recognized as an independent nation in 1839.

Together with the Belgians and the other Gauls, there were also the Norsemen, the Saxons, and many other ancient European peoples. And the vikings had already sailed to the Americas roughly some 800 years before Columbus ever set foot there. The sophistication of Chinese culture was also well-known, and easily dates back 4'000 years. Likewise for the various Arabic cultures, the ancient Greek, and so on.

The USA and Canada on the other hand were initially created as colonies of the British Crown and of France ─ to a far lesser extent, there were also Dutch colonists. The original cultures of North America were what we call the Native Americans today ─ and what Columbus mistakenly called Indians, because he didn't know of the existence of the Americas and he thought he had arrived in India ─ and they were overrun, decimated, driven into reservations, and their land was stolen out from underneath them. Most of what makes up the US population today are the descendants of European immigrants, the slaves they abducted from Africa, and to a lesser extent also the Chinese laborers who were lured to North America by the railway companies ─ their fate wasn't much better than that of the slaves.

I really don't wish to create acrimony on these topics. I just picked two examples at random. Comparative IQ studies have been made, they are conclusive and correlate significantly with national development, i.e. higher IQ countries (on average) tend to be more developed and wealthy than lower IQ ones. The USA has a much higher national IQ than the world average, that much is pretty clear from all the studies.

As for the topic of nationhood, this is another minefield I don't wish to walk into. If you base your definition of statehood or nationhood on ethnicity, Americans are by and large Europeans, they speak a European language and their language and customs are based on the European model, mostly from England. That would mean their culture is very old indeed.

I'm not a believer in multiculturalism, it isn't really a viable thing in my opinion. America only really has one culture, which is Anglo-saxon and Christian in nature, though there are some regional variations of course. In most ways, it is a plant from old Europe. There are no Amish in Germany these days, but there are plenty in America. Americans speak a variety of English that the English themselves spoke centuries ago, until they started dropping their Rs and deviating from the original pronunciation of English words, which sounded a lot more like Dutch and German than it does today.

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 15:18
But Chris you believe in Singaporeans. Incidentally I’ve worked with them and for their country unless ur Asian. You don’t fit

Chris
6th August 2019, 15:39
But Chris you believe in Singaporeans. Incidentally I’ve worked with them and for their country unless ur Asian. You don’t fit

I'm not sure what you mean, but Singapore is really just London in the tropics in many ways, though changing into a Chinese city with quite some speed. Its roots are British, but the people who live there are mostly Chinese, which is defined as a race in Singapore and immigration policies are skewed towards importing ever more immigrants from China, no doubt in a drive to change the city's ethnic character and turn it into a classic ethno-state.

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 15:46
No doubt. Either that or they are being typical humans and want it for themselves irrespective of race or ethnicity. We use the tools we have access to. It is similar to the behavior patterns of serial killers. The signature constant is presumed to be a need for control but in fact control is an artifact of the need for deviant sexual satisfaction.

Aragorn
6th August 2019, 16:07
Sooooo, not a peep in relation to my analogy.

And so more and more bubbles percolate.

And the direction remains the same and stable.

I wish us well.

I thought that the first three paragraphs of my reply to you would have been sufficient to state where I stand on gun possession, Sam. :hmm:

Sammy
6th August 2019, 17:44
I thought that the first three paragraphs of my reply to you would have been sufficient to state where I stand on gun possession, Sam. :hmm:

Hi Aragorn, I appreciated your reply. My analogy perhaps was not understood as I meant it to be. I should have been more direct. It had nothing to do with a single issue like "gun control." It had to do with the USA bashing.

It is my opinion that the USA as it is today as a nation among a world of nations is not the result of "creation within isolation." This world's human beings (for the most part) who have, for eons, dominated it, create its variations. The USA, the good and bad of it, is just as much the responsibility of humanity as other examples of human creation. To make it "the boogeyman" of the day, over and over and over again won't solve the problems of the world, especially with regards to how the world is directly impacted by the USA today.

And I say this because to do so reveals that the attacker has no real clue as to how this world works and if the attacker doesn't have a real understanding as to the complexities (especially the occulted ones) of this world, how can they expect their rants to cause a change? It only makes things worse. It is like saying (and feeling and thinking), "I hate hate" believing that this will result in a better world.

I am just saying that I read a lot of anger and resentment in all the finger pointing and it reminds me of how important Gandhi's words were and how few actually actualize them... we all know 'em... they start with "Be the change..."

Aragorn
6th August 2019, 17:55
Hi Aragorn, I appreciated your reply. My analogy perhaps was not understood as I meant it to be. I should have been more direct. It had nothing to do with a single issue like "gun control." It had to do with the USA bashing.

It is my opinion that the USA as it is today as a nation among a world of nations is not the result of "creation within isolation." This world's human beings (for the most part) who have, for eons, dominated it, create its variations. The USA, the good and bad of it, is just as much the responsibility of humanity as other examples of creation. To make it "the boogeyman" of the day, over and over and over again won't solve the problems of the world, especially with regards to how the world is directly impacted by the USA today.

And I say this because to do so reveals that the attacker has no real clue as to how this world works and if the attacker doesn't have a real understanding as to the complexities (especially the occulted ones) of this world, how can they expect their rants to cause a change? It only makes things worse. It is like saying (and feeling and thinking), "I hate hate" believing that this will result in a better world.

I am just saying that I read a lot of anger and resentment in all the finger pointing and it reminds me of how important Gandhi's words were and how few actually actualize them... we all know 'em... they start with "Be the change..."

Well, then it would appear as if my own reply was not exactly understood well either, Sam ─ which, quite honestly, doesn't surprise me, given Fred's reaction higher up the thread ─ because I wasn't bashing the USA. I was casting a diagnosis ─ which is an entirely different thing ─ and I was offering my perspective on what should be done to heal that particular sickness, including my prognosis on the success of the treatment and the "diet" that according to myself should be followed in order to heal the patient.

Perhaps it would be best if I take my leave from this thread. It would appear that I have a habit of being misunderstood with just about everything I say these days. :flag:

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 18:44
Just different opinions mr Aragorn. Perspective colors everything. Not so coincidentally some are clearer, saner, and honest, and most assuredly closer to a consensus reality. How important is consensus? Where people are dying in droves I would say very important

Sammy
6th August 2019, 18:51
Hey Aragorn, please, don't take leave.

I should have been even more clear and direct. So I will be now and I extend apologies that I wasn't before.

Since I came back to ToT, I noticed a huge drop in participation. What participation that remained, save for Aianawa and Fred Steeves appeared to me to be significantly anti-USA or anti-any political view that wasn't progressive/left. This wouldn't have bothered me so much but it all seemed heavy on complaining and rarely, if ever, focused on potential solutions. So it has started to get to me and I tried a round about way of stating it and wish I had just done so directly.

I long for the days we discussed things from higher perspectives and where we discussed solutions centered above the political fray which, if implemented on a wider scale might impact in a positive way how we explore politics where we might discover some common ground.

Instead, people seem to enjoy the drama even when they say they can't stand it (or hate it). And what I tried to point out in the post I made yesterday, isn't this the very thing "the AREs" want to happen? And I apologize to Aianawa for not calling them "the WEREs" and I promise I will be happy to do so when I see we all actually get a clue and stop fulfilling their goals for us.

We are responsible for us and its about time we live up to our responsibility IMO.

NotAPretender
6th August 2019, 21:19
Chris. I realized I misunderstood your comment about non-viability of multiculturalism and it hits on my issue with Jordan peterson. How can we get where we need to be without passing through the transitory state of multiculturalism?

Fred Steeves
7th August 2019, 00:15
Aragorn, have you ever been to the US, walked amongst us, to have these consistantly very strong, and rather condescending opinions of us?


That's the age-old non-sequitur knee-jerk response, Fred. One does not have to have visited a country in order to know what that country is like from the cultural perspective.

Come on man. Anyone who follows my posts knows I'm not prone to "age-old non-sequitur knee-jerk responses". You can disagree with me til the cows come home and that's fine, but knee jerk response? Um... no. Do you know how many times I've heard us referred to here as, what is it, "U.S. of Acronymeons"? Something like that. I of course understand where that comes from, but how would you like to hear me refer to Belgiums every so often as Belgium Waffles for example? Is that respectful?


widespread obesity ─ more than half of all US Americans are clinically overweight;
disrespect for human life and interpersonal relationships ─ human beings have become consumables;
disregard for ethics in favor of personal opportunity;
consumerist frenzies ─ "Black Friday";
Christian fundamentalism; and...
a dumbed-down population whose average IQ sits about 15 to 30 points below the global average.

If you want to point out our warts than I guess okay we have plenty of them, but shouldn't it be aimed more at our government than our people? Dude, we are a good people at heart. And I'm quite sure the average Belgium citizen is good at heart. MOST people mean well but we ALL have this disease to one degree or another you speak of. Most though are also under basic mind control, just like us...

It's not just U.S...

In the end, We, are no different than any other People. The big (current) difference is our military and economic ability to throw our weight around the world like any other former empire, only now on steroids with modern technological advances. Don't tell me the Belgium Waffles might not go down the same road given the same power.


There have certainly been exceptional individuals, yes, but they are hardly representative for the entire population, nor does that say anything at all about US culture. But for that matter, Nikola Tesla was an immigrant ─ he was from Serbia. Albert Einstein was also an immigrant ─ he was originally German, but he was Jewish, and so he fled Germany when the Nazis rose to power.

Alright, so we'll leave U.S. culture behind. When I pressed "Send" on my post, I was hoping you weren't going to say basically "Well Tesla was from Serbia..."

So what? He was a U.S. citizen, and so was Einstein, we are a nation composed totally of immigrants. When does one become a legitimate US citizen without some asterisk behind it? Second generation, third generation, or fourth generation like me?

They were U.S. citizens, no different than a Belgium citizen.

Aragorn
7th August 2019, 06:28
Aragorn, have you ever been to the US, walked amongst us, to have these consistantly very strong, and rather condescending opinions of us?

That's the age-old non-sequitur knee-jerk response, Fred. One does not have to have visited a country in order to know what that country is like from the cultural perspective.

Come on man. Anyone who follows my posts knows I'm not prone to "age-old non-sequitur knee-jerk responses". You can disagree with me til the cows come home and that's fine, but knee jerk response? Um... no.

Well, you can disagree, of course, but it's the stereotypical response I get from many (if not most) US Americans whenever I say something that criticizes their country. And that, my friend, is a programmed reflex ─ hence my use of the term "knee-jerk" ─ as the result of the age-old indoctrination with nationalistic values.


Do you know how many times I've heard us referred to here as, what is it, "U.S. of Acronymeons"? Something like that.

Acronymians. :p


I of course understand where that comes from, but how would you like to hear me refer to Belgiums every so often as Belgium Waffles for example? Is that respectful?

There's a difference. The term "Acronymians" was invented by myself ─ I claim the copyright ─ as a teasing term of endearment because of the habit of US Americans (and nowadays, also Brits and Australians) to want to abridge just about everything down to an acronym, which makes it very hard for anyone who isn't a US American to still understand what you guys are talking about even if their English is near-perfect, and this situation is not exactly being helped by the fact that those made-up acronyms don't even have a unique significance. When talking about the FBI, everyone knows what that is, but with gratuitously invented acronyms, it makes as much sense as Aianawese ─ and the copyright on that term belongs to modwiz. ;)

Referring to Belgians as waffles on the other hand would not be such a term of endearment, because Belgians don't exactly eat as many waffles as is commonly believed, and most importantly, the word "waffle" is also already being used in a derogatory manner in the English language, so there's already a negative connotation attached to it.




]widespread obesity ─ more than half of all US Americans are clinically overweight;
disrespect for human life and interpersonal relationships ─ human beings have become consumables;
disregard for ethics in favor of personal opportunity;
consumerist frenzies ─ "Black Friday";
Christian fundamentalism; and...
a dumbed-down population whose average IQ sits about 15 to 30 points below the global average.



If you want to point out our warts than I guess okay we have plenty of them, but shouldn't it be aimed more at our government than our people?

Yes, of course, because US culture as it exists today is the product of a deliberate manipulation by past and present US governments, and ─ importantly ─ the US corporate world behind them. Corporations need consumers, and that's why consumerism was made the way of life of (the vast majority of) the US American population. Likewise for the insular nature of US culture ─ which is still pretty evident in the fact that even though the USA have officially adopted the metric system, they still use non-decimal measurements in everything, and US-made tools, screws and bolts are not compatible with internationally applied tools, screws and bolts.

And this is all down to policy. So while the US government wants to instill the notion into the minds of the US American population that the USA and its people are somehow superior to everything and everyone else in the world, that very same US government is obviously also so afraid of everything and everyone else in the world that it has to isolate and shield its culture from the rest of the world, unless said culture can be exported into other parts of the world ─ which is of course what the Pentagon has been doing 24/7 since the end of World War II.


Dude, we are a good people at heart.

Oh, I know that, and I've never contested that.


And I'm quite sure the average Belgium citizen is good at heart.

Nah, most Belgians are apathetic, selfish and cynical. :p


MOST people mean well but we ALL have this disease to one degree or another you speak of. Most though are also under basic mind control, just like us...

It's not just U.S...

In the end, We, are no different than any other People. The big (current) difference is our military and economic ability to throw our weight around the world like any other former empire, only now on steroids with modern technological advances. Don't tell me the Belgium Waffles might not go down the same road given the same power.

Well, we certainly do have our colonial past, and even now the Belgian government is still trying to retain a foot in the door in Congo. There's a lot of money involved, see. And frustrated megalomania. The worst thing you can do to a megalomaniac is put them in a country the size of a handkerchief. Many of our politicians like pretending to the outside that Belgium is the most beautiful, most hospitable and most progressive country on Earth, while their internal policies are medieval, conservative and retarded. We've probably got just as many politicians as the USA, in a country that's only the size of New York City.

Why do you think Elon Musk is currently testing his BFRs? It's an acronym for "Big Fucking Rocket" ─ this is factual; I'm not making that up. It's because I wrote him a letter with all the names of our Belgian politicians as volunteers for a one-way trip to Mars. :p

Cue Louis Armstrong's "What A Wonderful World". :sarcastic:



There have certainly been exceptional individuals, yes, but they are hardly representative for the entire population, nor does that say anything at all about US culture. But for that matter, Nikola Tesla was an immigrant ─ he was from Serbia. Albert Einstein was also an immigrant ─ he was originally German, but he was Jewish, and so he fled Germany when the Nazis rose to power.

Alright, so we'll leave U.S. culture behind. When I pressed "Send" on my post, I was hoping you weren't going to say basically "Well Tesla was from Serbia..."

So what? He was a U.S. citizen, and so was Einstein, we are a nation composed totally of immigrants. When does one become a legitimate US citizen without some asterisk behind it? Second generation, third generation, or fourth generation like me?

They were U.S. citizens, no different than a Belgium citizen.

The adjective of "Belgium" is "Belgian". :p But Nikola Tesla was either way not a product of US American culture ─ he was still very Serbian in his customs ─ and neither was Albert Einstein. For that matter, even though Einstein was Jewish by birth, he was not a practising Jew and so he also didn't feel any connection with Jewish culture. And, both gentlemen lived long before the USA became truly consumerist.

The consumerist culture was already around to a small degree from before World War II, but it was only long after World War II that it truly became a way of life, and it didn't take too long for Europe to adopt it either, albeit that this was still to a far lesser extent back then than it is now. By now, Europe is almost equally consumerist. But then again, we now live in a globalized society, and corporations have already long ago begun crossing oceans and continents.

The people in this alternative community fear a one-world government, but they've got all the wrong ideas of what that entails. They're thinking of an actual government, with a president and officials and such. No, that's not how it'll be. We already have a one-world fascist government, a New World Order, and it's the international corporations that are running it, with the IMF and the Trilateral Commission as its political front-ends.

Remember communist China? Well, it ain't communist. It's as capitalist as can be. That's why the big corporations all take their manufacturing into China (and South Korea), and then import the finished products back into Europe, Canada, Australia, and so on.

Nothing wrong with products made in China or South Korea, mind you ─ there's some really good stuff coming from over there. But the people who have to manufacture those products are not quite getting paid the same wages as we are over here, and they don't even have the same human rights either. And that's exactly why those products are being made over there and not here in the West. It's the corporate wet dream, and when push comes to shove, all corporations behave sociopathically.

Chris
7th August 2019, 08:09
Chris. I realized I misunderstood your comment about non-viability of multiculturalism and it hits on my issue with Jordan peterson. How can we get where we need to be without passing through the transitory state of multiculturalism?

Well, vastly different cultures can live together, at least for a while, but certain sacrifices need to be made, the consequences aren't always pleasant, and go against the very heart of liberalism.

In Singapore for instance, there are compulsory mixed neighbourhoods and ethnic or religious ghettoes aren't allowed to form. Criticising anybody's religion is illegal and can lead to a jail term. There is a police state of sorts and "problematic" minorities (read: Muslims) are strictly monitored via a large, secret, plain-clothed police force that is only half-acknowledged to exist. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are heavily curtailed. Praying must be done in houses of worship or in designated areas, you can't just stop what you're doing, get out of the car and start praying on the side of the road or wherever, as is common in many Islamic countries. There are very strict laws regarding rape and sexual harassment, with very harsh punishments, including caning and the death penalty in some cases.

It is the price a multicultural society has to pay to keep the various races (that's how the main ethnic/religious groups are classified in Singapore) from having a go at each other. Singapore was formed amidst serious race riots and much violence, so it is a priority for them. Also, because they're surrounded by much larger Islamic nations, their security situation is always precarious, not unlike Israel's actually. That means another sacrifice they have to make is to spend much more on defence than comparable nations and they do have to maintain a 2-year compulsory national service for all Singaporean males. This of course means less money for social programmes, a problem they have in common with the USA.

Still, the problem remains that unlike ethno-states with a dominant ethnic and religious majority, multicultural societies are always ready to combust below the surface and the situation is always more volatile than it appears. If I contrast that with monocultural ethnostates, it is clear to see that they have an advantage in terms of keeping the peace and maintaining societal harmony without the need to resort to extreme measures. I am just back from a week's holiday in Poland and apart from a couple of foreign tourists in the big cities, everyone I met was White, Polish and Catholic. It is actually somewhat disconcerting to be in such an environment if you're used to a multicultural big city such as London or New York. Still, you can't deny the advantages of not having to deal with Intra-community tensions, which is apparent also in countries such as Japan, probably the safest and most peaceful major country in the world.

NotAPretender
7th August 2019, 15:52
Eloquent argument. But there are always good arguments and justification to fall short of what we intuitively recognize as spiritual essence.

Sammy
8th August 2019, 15:45
READER BEWARE - Monster Post*

*A request - if anyone wishes to comment on this, please, don't "snippet it up"... just refer to it and then write your own post, please.


And the bottom-line is......GREED. :wiz: Nobody wants to give it up.

My own conclusions are the same and thus, of course (as I am unfortunately prone to do), I analyzed this and here are some of my thoughts.

Greed... greed for what? Money, "the options money provides," p o w e r (yes, a big one in fact), f a m e (another big one)... and on and on. And so what do all these things have in common?

Their view point.

And that then suggests an individual might benefit from examining what might be their underlying world view.

What do I mean by all that? These things I listed as 'objects of greed' are all things to be gained in this world (and the world experience). Thus this is anchored in the "worldly" point of view as in This World - the physical world, which then implies the point of view is emanating from the point of view centered from an individual's current life(time).

I am aware that my statements above are packed with implications which could be perceived as impositions. Let me point out a few. First, I imply there may be other (and thus, different) points of view. I also imply individuation... that we can view the world from a view point of an individuated being. Additionally, I imply there may be other lifetimes (experiences) which could be available to an individuated being. But be assured I am not meaning to impose anything on anyone who might read this post. I am asking the reader to open their mind. Try on some of these ideas like a new piece of clothing and see if you like it, if not, discard it and have a good day! But... if you read further, the point of the post is about to become clear.

What I discovered to be the root of greed had so much to do with one's cosmological metaphysical world view. Greed appears to focus upon what one can get in this one life.** It is always or most always self-centric (even if it attempts to hide itself by cloaking oneself in 'doing good deeds'). When it is not fully self-centric, what remains is usually group-centric. Rarely does it become world-centric. When I looked further, I saw that most folks base their cosmological metaphysical world view on materialism which, as a result, means they only actually believe they have this one life and only this one life. Many materialists actually don't know they are (so many never consider their world view or they assume there is only one real world view to have – materialism so why bother to think about it – just live it). Some have actually intellectually explored the idea there may be an afterlife or 'God' even to the point they intellectually convince themselves the safe route is to try and buy into a religion or a belief system, etc. but in reality they remain in the grips of at least a sub-conscious fear that it will all end upon their death, “Because after all, in truth... there is only this one life and since that is the case, grab all you can get out of it while you can,” (materially and/or psychologically).

Greed runs the external world as it is experienced today. Greed, coupled with varying degrees of psychopathy, combine to naturally produce the hierarchical leadership structure this world empowers to determine our freedoms (or lack thereof) as this relates to self-determination. We and our ancestors have allowed all this to become the world norm. We are all responsible for this current dynamic.

Now look even deeper... look at those who have opened their mind, “There may be more to it all than is explained by materialism.” The vast majority of those who then considered ‘God’ have chosen to see 'God' as an external third party. The vast majority of these folks end up either a.) defining their 'God' or b.) the majority - allow others to define ‘God’ for them. This always results in the need to define their God's 'rules' (dogma) and when a psychopathic charismatic leader guy comes along, it all gets combined into a new religion (or sub-branch within an overarching religion) and “voila!” - you end up with the proverbial two sided coin but again, the same coin - stark, hopeless materialism on one side and hope as delivered by an third party generated set of rules (again, the dogma) which cites an all-powerful yet external third party “God’ thingie which you better believe in the way you are told to believe in 'it' or you are screwed be there an afterlife.

But also (and perhaps most insidiously) there is the meat of the coin between the two sides... symbolically a slice between the two extremes noted above. Though most of these types of folks I am about to describe find themselves on one side or the other of this single coin, some may have arrived at a world view (many unknowingly) that is based on the 'belief' (dare I say, knowing ?) the world is One and it is founded by a one consciousness (the timeless, formless eternal one life), but they (at their level of being as an individuated being living this one life) have suffered such a degree of psychological trauma (in some cases, self-imposed and in some cases, externally imposed but usually a combination of both) that they have developed addictions to worldly things whereby they pursue the same results that greed produces and thus, unwittingly, yet by their thoughts, words and actions reinforce the concept of “gain from a greed based operational assumption.” And again, few actually suspect this and almost none actually know this (known via rare acts of self-honesty).

[Note: I started as a materialist, then in my late teens became a "searcher for that real third party ‘God' thingie" and not until aged 54 (I am almost 62 now) did I earnestly begin the process of undoing and only anchored my world view in monistic idealism three years ago. But that was the game changer. I assess my overall personal progress at about a rating of 3 or 4 on a scale of 1 to 10 though my wife might say I still score zeros from time to time].

So if I be 'enlightened' I would call it, 'stark, raving enlightened.' (I hope folks see the joke and don't mistake my implication of "enlightened" as something I actually believe I might be).

In closing -

The largest percentage of folks in our world today are caught up in the extremes of this three- fold dynamic. Few individuals ever engage in a "true to themselves" exploration into the true nature and true science of being. My opinion is that if each of us dedicated our lives to this task as their primary endeavor, the world as we know it today would no longer be recognized, instead it would be transformed into reflecting its true, greater potential.

My recommendation as to where to start with regards to any individual is to start with a serious, open minded study of idealism, specifically monistic idealism. As my opinion is that if each one of us is able to shift our world view away from materialism or away from viewing 'God' as an external third party, and that we do a serious personal deep-dive – do the internal work by undoing our self-deceptions - anchore the world view that, indeed, all is One and that ultimately, we are That, then we would all surely benefit.
And David Icke's decades old belief that a massive consciousness shift is the much needed and transformative "world cure" would be proven true.

**There are some religions like the Temple of Set which focus upon the refinement of the individuated being which survives the death of their physical body of their current lifetime.

Sammy
10th August 2019, 14:08
Some here may "gleen" my respect for David Icke.

David has seen a lot. Here's his take on QAnon -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H5VWcmDA6w

His primary point is that the goal is to buy time. I guess we'll see but, of course, only can we do so when we can look back. By then "the time bought" will be fully paid for.

Dreamtimer
11th August 2019, 13:57
I thought 'bird' was the word. It's bollocks.

Everything is so clear, now.:ttr:

I haven't been following Q, and I'm interested to hear that there's now a 'wait and see' dynamic happening.


DrIp, drip, drip,...just wait!

Drip, drip, drip,...just wait!

Drip, drip, drip,...just wait!

Familiar pattern I see.:yoda:


At 16 minutes David talks about how things are changing for the better regarding peoples' awareness and opinions.

Aragorn
11th August 2019, 14:08
I thought 'bird' was the word.

No, "grease" is the word. It's got groove, it's got meaning. :p




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmA1yqmKBh8


:onthequite:



Ahem... :back to topic: :whstl:

Dreamtimer
11th August 2019, 14:12
Now why didn't I think of that?

Maybe Q knows...:ttr:

Sammy
11th August 2019, 15:36
What I got out of what Icke was saying is that Q is an "op" to get Q followers to think everything is gonna work out just fine when the real goal is to pacify these folks so they are more compliant along the road to the day when suddenly there's a realization that the agenda is now fully implemented and there ain't nothing you can do about it.

If this is what he is suggesting and there's truth to it, then I think that pokes a big hole in the balloon of Q groupies.

Aragorn
11th August 2019, 16:03
What I got out of what Icke was saying is that Q is an "op" to get Q followers to think everything is gonna work out just fine when the real goal is to pacify these folks so they are more compliant along the road to the day when suddenly there's a realization that the agenda is now fully implemented and there ain't nothing you can do about it.

If this is what he is suggesting and there's truth to it, then I think that pokes a big hole in the balloon of Q groupies.

With all due respect for David Icke, I think he's wrong about this one, except perhaps for the Zionist angle, because QAnon has been co-opted by the Israeli intelligence along the way.

Chris
11th August 2019, 16:30
I met David Icke in person many years ago, when there was a rally against child abuse on Trafalgar Square.

He's gotta lay off the pies for all our sakes, or soon he won't be able to move...

On a more serious note, his point about Q-anon is spot on. Also, what he says about the Soros networks, sometimes the guy's influence is overblown and he's demonised, not least in my country, where he's originally from and has done the most "activism" in proportion to the size of the country, but it cannot be denied that he is indeed a serious manipulator, regime changer and does a lot of groundwork for US foreign policy interests. I think Icke's description of Soros working hand in glove with the Neocons, as two sided of the same coin, is spot-on.

Aragorn
11th August 2019, 16:39
On a more serious note, his point about Q-anon is spot on. Also, what he says about the Soros networks, sometimes the guy's influence is overblown and he's demonised, not least in my country, where he's originally from and has done the most "activism" in proportion to the size of the country, but it cannot be denied that he is indeed a serious manipulator, regime changer and does a lot of groundwork for US foreign policy interests. I think Icke's description of Soros working hand in glove with the Neocons, as two sided of the same coin, is spot-on.

That much is certainly true. Soros is one of the guys from the Rockefeller-Kissinger-Brzezinsky club. They are ─ or were, because two of them are already dead now ─ the driving force behind corporate globalism and American world dominance. Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, and that sort of thing. The club of elite US hegemonists that Bush Sr., Obama, both Clintons, Dick Cheney and yet a bunch of others are(/were) also members of.

You know, it always baffles me whenever some multi-billionaire is touted in the media as being a philanthropist. Doesn't anyone ever wonder how those jokers got their billions together in the first place? :fpalm:

Fred Steeves
11th August 2019, 16:57
You know, it always baffles me whenever some multi-billionaire is touted in the media as being a philanthropist. Doesn't anyone ever wonder how those jokers got their billions together in the first place? :fpalm:

Sure they do, but usually it's politicized. Most of the Right Right will vilify Soros while making every excuse in the book for the Koch brothers; the Left will vilify the Koch brothers while making every excuse in the book for Soros. And so it goes round and round, nothing ever changing with each side excusing their own while vilifying "the other"...

Aragorn
11th August 2019, 17:04
You know, it always baffles me whenever some multi-billionaire is touted in the media as being a philanthropist. Doesn't anyone ever wonder how those jokers got their billions together in the first place? :fpalm:

Sure they do, but usually it's politicized. Most of the Right Right will vilify Soros while making every excuse in the book for the Koch brothers; the Left will vilify the Koch brothers while making every excuse in the book for Soros. And so it goes round and round, nothing ever changing with each side excusing their own while vilifying "the other"...



https://upwardsleader.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/231395-dog-pony-show-at-the-gypsy-fair-1.jpg

Sammy
11th August 2019, 17:59
With all due respect for David Icke, I think he's wrong about this one, except perhaps for the Zionist angle, because QAnon has been co-opted by the Israeli intelligence along the way.

OK, and how are you drawing this conclusion? Do you have an information source or two that builds a reasonably sound case for this? Please, point me to the information as I am now in the "Q(ueue)" with those who are wondering what's true and what may not be.

Sammy
11th August 2019, 22:42
Another shout out to Fred for turning me on to Jimmy Dore -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoFIzKyMmZQ

NotAPretender
11th August 2019, 23:10
Perfect material for a joke segment...and we wonder why...no we don't...we don't wonder why, we know...

Aragorn
12th August 2019, 09:53
With all due respect for David Icke, I think he's wrong about this one, except perhaps for the Zionist angle, because QAnon has been co-opted by the Israeli intelligence along the way.

OK, and how are you drawing this conclusion? Do you have an information source or two that builds a reasonably sound case for this? Please, point me to the information as I am now in the "Q(ueue)" with those who are wondering what's true and what may not be.

Oh, I don't remember anymore where it was posted or by whom, Sam, but one of the QAnon perpetrators ─ there's more than one, mind you, and they're not all males either ─ has fessed up on who they are, including their names, how it all got started, how they operate in terms of gathering the information they post before anyone else gets to see it, and so on. They were essentially geeks who had been involved with the IT infrastructure of Trump's electoral campaign, and that's where they met, and where they came up with the idea. And he has also stated that even though it was all merely intended as a LARP, they became so addicted to their own game that they couldn't stop anymore.

Eventually the guy left and the others carried on, but the one who left said that one of the others had been contacted by the Mossad, and that's when they started inserting Zionist propaganda into their messages ─ this propaganda was not there yet in the beginning.

That's about as much as I remember. And to add an Aianawese spin to it, my intuition ─ or "noospheric diving", if you will ─ tells me that this is the truth.

Aianawa
12th August 2019, 10:17
Gosh hurtfullll, I forgive you Aragorn dear bro even though you know what you do, tisa a love n respect that you do it from.

Dreamtimer
12th August 2019, 13:44
Why is what Aragorn said hurtful, Aianawa? (you yourself call people haters and brainwashed)


Reagan said that you could be from China, or Ireland, or India or Poland and you could come to America and become and American.

That was the beauty of our nation and our Democracy.

Now the folks who stole his slogan wish to stop this thing which made America great.

Shame on them.

Sammy
12th August 2019, 14:35
Can I be a mod?

I want to be able to protect myself from trying to put myself on my ignore list. :rolleyes:

NotAPretender
12th August 2019, 15:09
Sammy your sense of humor tells me there is great hope for you

Dreamtimer
12th August 2019, 15:26
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

That was moderatorly funny. :ttr:

Dreamtimer
12th August 2019, 15:33
Here you go (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/7418-The-One-Truth-s-Lounge-Thread?p=842013730&viewfull=1#post842013730), Sammy.

Sammy
12th August 2019, 16:10
Here you go (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/7418-The-One-Truth-s-Lounge-Thread?p=842013730&viewfull=1#post842013730), Sammy.


I love Pink... it is one of my three favorite colors (along with purple and blue). Sometimes my first favorite :p


Anyways... there was a time I tried to put someone on my ignore list but they were a mod and thus I was not allowed to do so and so I always remembered that.

Anyways, the post I almost made (yesterday) had something to do with my request. I did save my text and just re-read it. I am glad I quickly changed the post (essentially deleting it). And no, it was not laced with comments that would be moderated... it was saying things that I could see might have been hurtful for a certain other member who would likely (and correctly) assume the comments were aimed their direction. And I realized that one of my personalities still thinks I can actually make a (positive) difference in this world with my "words"... the subtle lingerings of an ever present savior complex reasonably subdued via an improved "real" higher self that still has a long, long way to go.


I decided to unpost my post.

Sammy
16th August 2019, 11:13
An interesting conversation -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-OeKV1JZGI

Sammy
23rd August 2019, 18:11
and so... what may be the actual truth?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noj4phMT9OE

Sammy
27th August 2019, 14:00
Perfect material for a joke segment...and we wonder why...no we don't...we don't wonder why, we know...

I will only address this one. The only reason I bother is because it is my hope this forum deserves better.*

This is a friendly reminder to those who love to use the word "we" in the way as has been used in the statement quoted above... as if every single other human being (or sentient being for that matter) shares the same foundational mindset required to agree with whatever the umbrella ("we") is cast over when used without definition or, if defined, proof.

It is insulting to individualized intelligence.

It is an affront to the right to think for oneself.

It is a form of cyber bullying as well against those who do not share the same view and thus do not fit in the "we" world of the speaker or writer.

Folks who use this tactic should understand that its usage only works on the vulnerable, especially the emotionally vulnerable. Folks who pretend to hate hate actually fan the flames of hate of the vulnerable by such usage. My recommendation to those who continue to do this on this forum do so with some serious personal self examination whereby they may find a more constructive way to communicate.


*This was not meant to single anyone out yet I used a benign example of such... others here do this and if they are honest with themselves, they know they do it.

I am just suggesting its time folks moved past Orange and Green and become anchored in Tier Two.

NotAPretender
27th August 2019, 18:12
ok, ok, it was in good taste and very sympathetic to the world at large.

NotAPretender
28th August 2019, 17:13
and so... what may be the actual truth?

I'm starting to listen now, but I want to start with point that really niggles me. Why do we have to line up as Conservative/Science Sucks! - Progressive/Science is King!

I don't know...it seems like a horrible place to conceptually/intellectually live. It is a contrived dichotomy and counter-productive to anything that wishes to make sense. Just my opinion but very very unfortunate in that it screams intrinsic bias...We have to do better, we just have to...

NotAPretender
28th August 2019, 17:33
I'm in 15 minutes and so far they haven't said anything. They are discussing recent advances in microbiology that are completely irrelevant to Darwin's Theory. As one states, what the goal is is to determine the emergence of complexity...the how and perhaps later in the video, the why. The fact that Darwin was unaware of the true complexity doesn't matter. Newton formulated some fabulous natural laws not realizing the nature of relativity, nor even remotely the nature of quantum mechanics.

So what they are referring to is the fact that microbiologists have formulated new gene pairs, specifically the x/y that is able to 'pattern' new proteins and are indeed capable of creating new forms of life...so what? Does that mean Darwin's Theory no longer holds? Are they talking about walking and talking new forms. Does it say anything beyond the truism that it is an enhancement that exemplfies the 'novel', the creative spark that defines creation as validly described by Darwin in perhaps its initial form. I guess I'll find out by watching the rest but not so far.

Disclaimer: I tend to believe in the validity of Intelligent Design but not in its dichotomous form, in my chosen form... :) God guides! There is no reason for would be iconoclastic children to sit around in their pompous rooms and thrones and declare that they have 'seen the mountaintop'...Frankly, they would not if they had...

NotAPretender
28th August 2019, 17:42
There is a reference to the NP-Complete problem. A problem that attempts to address the transition from a difficult to a hard problem to solve. In this context a 'hard' problem is considered 'unsolvable' by mathematics...ok...life exists without a solution...We are here, after all.

Sammy
28th August 2019, 22:27
Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? Featuring Physicists Willie Soon and Elliott Bloom



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=1zrejG-WI3U

Is global warming real? Have any such predictions been established scientifically? Would massive “carbon” taxes and other controls put America and the world—especially the poor—at great risk?

At this special event, geoscientist and astrophysicist Willie Soon separates fact from fiction in the global warming debate. He explains why the forecasts from CO2 climate models have been so wrong—and why solar influences on clouds, oceans, and wind drive climate change, not CO2 emissions. Stanford University physicist Elliott Bloom then comments.

“The whole point of science is to question accepted dogmas. For that reason, I respect Willie Soon as a good scientist and a courageous citizen.”
—Freeman J. Dyson, Professor Emeritus of Physics, Institute for Advanced Study; Templeton Prize Laureate

“I am writing to express my deep admiration and respect for Dr. Willie Soon, a fine astrophysicist and human being.... As Willie has shown in many ways, observational facts do not fit the CO2 dogma, and an enormous amount of evidence points to the Sun as a much more important driver of climate.... Willie was right—whatever the cause of changing temperature, the main driver cannot be the concentration of atmospheric CO2.”
—William Happer, Chairman, Presidential Committee on Climate Security; Cyrus Fogg Brackett Professor of Physics Emeritus, Princeton University; Member, National Academy of Sciences

Willie Soon is a geophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. He received his Ph.D. (with distinction) in aeronautical engineering from the University of Southern California, and he has been Astronomer at the Mount Wilson Observatory; Senior Scientist at the George C. Marshall Institute; Senior Visiting Fellow at the State Key Laboratory of Marine Environmental Science at Xiamen University; and Professor of Environmental Studies at the University of Putra Malaysia. The author of 90 scientific papers, he has IEEE received the Nuclear & Plasma Sciences Society Award, Rockwell Dennis Hunt Award, Smithsonian Institution Award, Courage in Defense of Science Award, Petr Beckmann Award for Courage and Achievement in Defense of Scientific Truth and Freedom, and Frederick Seitz Memorial Award.

Elliott D. Bloom is Professor Emeritus in the Kavli Institute for Particle Astrophysics and Cosmology at the Stanford Linear Accelerator Laboratory (SLAC) at Stanford University and a Fellow of the American Physical Society. He was a member of the SLAC team with Jerome I. Friedman, Henry W. Kendall and Richard E. Taylor who received the Nobel Prize in Physics. He received his Ph.D. in physics from the California Institute of Technology, he is the author of numerous scientific papers, and he is the recipient of the Senior Scientist Award from the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation.

For further information on and to order copies of the Independent Institute book, "Hot Talk, Cold Science: Global Warming's Unfinished Debate," by geophysicist S. Fred Singer, please go here:
http://www.independent.org/store/book.asp?id=42...

The Independent Institute is a non-profit, non-partisan, public-policy research and educational organization that shapes ideas into profound and lasting impact. The mission of Independent is to boldly advance peaceful, prosperous, and free societies grounded in a commitment to human worth and dignity. Applying independent thinking to issues that matter, the Independent Institute creates transformational ideas for today’s most pressing social and economic challenges. The results of this work are published as books, the quarterly journal, "The Independent Review," and other publications and form the basis for numerous conference and media programs. By connecting these ideas with other organizations and networks, Independent seeks to inspire action that can unleash an era of unparalleled human flourishing at home and around the globe.

Sammy
28th August 2019, 22:38
I'm starting to listen now, but I want to start with point that really niggles me. Why do we have to line up as Conservative/Science Sucks! - Progressive/Science is King!

I don't know...it seems like a horrible place to conceptually/intellectually live. It is a contrived dichotomy and counter-productive to anything that wishes to make sense. Just my opinion but very very unfortunate in that it screams intrinsic bias...We have to do better, we just have to...

We who? You? You and who else? I hope you are not including me in your we because I do not share the view that...


Conservative/Science Sucks! - Progressive/Science is King!

Do you share that view?

If not, then who are of the "we" you referenced does? Can you name any? Are any of this group members of this forum? If so, what should WE do to them?

I am really glad I am not one of "them."

How could someone whose metaphysical cosmological world view is known as "monistic idealism" possibly be one of "them?"

NotAPretender
28th August 2019, 22:48
It is implicit in the platform...The self-described stupid guy hosting the 'debate' is the purveyor and unless the discussion group was unaware they should have refused to even participate. For whatever its worth, check out the body language of the 'brains'

True scientists present in scientific forums not conservative think tanks.

Just my opinion, of course...perhaps I am biased...but I doubt it. :)

I'm not suggesting that you are anything but what you have presented to me...A smart guy with a pretty holistic approach. The material is always what gets to me. I become an incorrigible critic of videos that I 'perceive' to not be free of bias and strictly dedicated to what it pretends to be.

As my daddy always use to say, "Don't try to bullfrog me!"

Sammy
28th August 2019, 22:53
I'm in 15 minutes and so far they haven't said anything. They are discussing recent advances in microbiology that are completely irrelevant to Darwin's Theory. As one states, what the goal is is to determine the emergence of complexity...the how and perhaps later in the video, the why. The fact that Darwin was unaware of the true complexity doesn't matter. Newton formulated some fabulous natural laws not realizing the nature of relativity, nor even remotely the nature of quantum mechanics.

So what they are referring to is the fact that microbiologists have formulated new gene pairs, specifically the x/y that is able to 'pattern' new proteins and are indeed capable of creating new forms of life...so what? Does that mean Darwin's Theory no longer holds? Are they talking about walking and talking new forms. Does it say anything beyond the truism that it is an enhancement that exemplfies the 'novel', the creative spark that defines creation as validly described by Darwin in perhaps its initial form. I guess I'll find out by watching the rest but not so far.

Disclaimer: I tend to believe in the validity of Intelligent Design but not in its dichotomous form, in my chosen form... :) God guides! There is no reason for would be iconoclastic children to sit around in their pompous rooms and thrones and declare that they have 'seen the mountaintop'...Frankly, they would not if they had...

Sounds like you got the point of the video without going past 15 minutes... that we should open our mind that perhaps "man" as "man" appears to be may not have evolved from apes as is the common conclusion based in large part on Darwin's theory. The mathematical issue throws a "monkey wrench" (pun intended) into the conclusion (taught in schools as fact).

Disclaimer: I lean to operating with the assumption that my physical vehicle evolved from a race of beings from another planet similar to Earth and that others evolved from a race of beings from the same other planet and also many others from many different other planets similar to Earth. In addition, I do not view God as exclusively a third party, though I am in relation with what I metaphorically refer to (among many different references) as 'my personal God.'

I share the view that this physical reality is an effect of Divine Intelligence working through Divine Law.

Aragorn
28th August 2019, 22:54
I become an incorrigible critic of videos that I 'perceive' to not be free of bias and strictly dedicated to what it pretends to be.

You've just described 99% of everything on FaceTube and Twittagram. :p

NotAPretender
28th August 2019, 22:58
well, I don't by necessity disagree with that possibility...But I would prefer that a 'scientist' state that is their position before they start trying to reeducate me. Not you, not me (I'm not a scientist) Scientists and mathematicians should stick to their discipline and when moving away from that state that they are offering opinions only.


You've just described 99% of everything on FaceTube and Twittagram. :p

unfortunately that is true Aragorn...I won't rest easy with it...

Sammy
28th August 2019, 23:05
True scientists present in scientific forums not conservative think tanks.


Then you should love the video I just posted entitled "Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? Featuring Physicists Willie Soon and Elliott Bloom"

In addition, arguing for diversity would be hypocritical if scientists are relegated to scientific forums only, yes?

I happen to be a heavy libertarian that leans ever so slightly left. That doesn't mean I am unable to gather information from all types of sources and then decide for myself what I might conclude.

ohhhh I long for a forum that has resisted the descent into everything being political. How shallow much of the conversation has become these days... time for some more lull? What say you Aianawah!

NotAPretender
28th August 2019, 23:17
no...scientific forums are for science...

philosophy is for Conservative and Progressive forums.

I did do a quick check on the video you just mentioned...looks, dare I say it...challenging...

Aianawa
29th August 2019, 01:27
Then you should love the video I just posted entitled "Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? Featuring Physicists Willie Soon and Elliott Bloom"

In addition, arguing for diversity would be hypocritical if scientists are relegated to scientific forums only, yes?

I happen to be a heavy libertarian that leans ever so slightly left. That doesn't mean I am unable to gather information from all types of sources and then decide for myself what I might conclude.

ohhhh I long for a forum that has resisted the descent into everything being political. How shallow much of the conversation has become these days... time for some more lull? What say you Aianawah!

Lulling indeed, from past indicators plus n o idea because this is an ongoing new template arising imo atm, the Main lull of this atm lull had an eye ( huge pressure on many differing types of peoples brain and mind wise ) eye provided release and outs through everything from suicide to addiction embrace n Big Xtra AGING and this is imo a and the CRUX and cruX, so imo many did sacrifice in many differing ways and many did gifting But always for those that know ( important ) > Aging or Youthing end of wave happening. Will shove this over to lull thread, cheers you helped that emerge ta Sammy.

NotAPretender
29th August 2019, 14:09
Global Warming: Fact or Fiction? Featuring Physicists Willie Soon and Elliott Bloom

Obama and Al Gore again? There's a pattern developing and it isn't a scientific one...Come on...let's listen to climatologists not opinion makers...

An entire hour dedicated to a comedian? I don't like it...

NotAPretender
29th August 2019, 14:18
Would massive “carbon” taxes and other controls put America and the world—especially the poor—at great risk?

No, one of the primary functions of government, in spite of the claim by conservatives that it is to wage war, it is to subsidize and facilitate improvements in technical infrastructure. That approach formerly worked quite admirably...But then Al Gore the Progressive discovered Global Warming and the conservative world realized that it must be a conspiracy because Al Gore was Bill Clinton's Vice-President and they both knew Barack Obama, the Kenyan Muslim from Hawaii.

NotAPretender
29th August 2019, 14:29
What the scientist is saying is what I've been saying for at least a decade regarding astrophysics and how it can be viewed/used as a model for our planet. It is what started this type of global climate research on our planet. And I would think that Gaians would be highly enthusiastic about that inclination, but conversely it seems many are actually hostile toward it. Again, that makes absolutely no sense to me...less than no sense.

NotAPretender
29th August 2019, 14:43
Oh, I thought it was going to be a debate...Now that was a surprise. Scientific or not.

Because the planet is greener that means Co2 is beneficial? True, it was great for dinosaurs, perhaps not so good for humans

Sammy
29th August 2019, 14:51
Obama and Al Gore again? There's a pattern developing and it isn't a scientific one...Come on...let's listen to climatologists not opinion makers...

An entire hour dedicated to a comedian? I don't like it...

My bet is you are making this statement because what is being said is simply that which you do not wish to hear. And so you do as you commonly do... "name call." This works for and upon the emotionally vulnerable only.

The hope I have for mankind is that the tri-partate remains a minority. If it does not... kiss life as something worthwhile goodbye.

Sammy
29th August 2019, 14:58
Oh, I thought it was going to be a debate...Now that was a surprise. Scientific or not.

Because the planet is greener that means Co2 is beneficial? True, it was great for dinosaurs, perhaps not so good for humans

I guess you failed to watch the question/answer portion in the last 25% or so of the video. Note that most of the participants are not agenda and or lifestyle compromised - meaning most are not dependent on funding by the cabal fronts such as foundations/universities.

Note the goal of the cabal is to gain more and more power over every aspect of human life and being. People who support the loss of freedom are almost always located in one of the three groups of the tri-partate.

The small portion of the tri-partate that consists of the witting sellouts are usually the loudest drum beaters. They do so day in and day out and on every available medium.

NotAPretender
29th August 2019, 15:03
My bad, I just thought it was going to be a debate...I apologize for thinking it was going to present 'something' beyond mere propaganda masked in a facade of scientific numbers that literally had no true relevant context to Nay or Yay! Just me...

Sammy
29th August 2019, 15:04
The extreme Green* Progressive Left has created its inevitable counterpart - a responsive expression of tribalism from the right.

Yet is some cases, you have examples of those who stay true to doing the right thing such as General Dunford. Sadly, those in positions such as General Dunford are more and more rare to see.

‘I Just Won’t Do It’: General Dunford Rebuffs CNN Reporter Who Asks Him About Trump (https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/28/general-dunford-rebuffs-reporter-asks-about-trump/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=9864)


Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Marine General Joseph Dunford fired back at a reporter who asked him about President Donald Trump during Wednesday’s Pentagon briefing.

Dunford was responding to CNN’s Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, who pressed him to give his opinion of Trump because “this may be our last opportunity to ask you.”

Starr referred to comments from former Secretary of Defense James Mattis, asking Dunford to comment both on Mattis’ assessment of the current political climate and then how he thought Trump had changed over time as Commander-in-Chief.

“Do you agree with Secretary Mattis, who you’ve known so many years, do you believe there is tribalism in this country that certainly threatens democracy?” Starr began. “And to ask you to also reflect as best you can on how you see President Trump changing over the last couple years as — in his role as Commander in Chief. We well know you do not like to talk about the president, but this may be our last opportunity to ask you, so I want to.”

“Barbara, as you know, I worked very hard to remain apolitical and not make political judgments,” Dunford replied, dismissing her first question out of hand. “And your first question is not in my lane. I worked hard to provide military advice to the second secretary, military advice to the president, other members of the National Security Council, and make sure our men and women have the wherewithal to do their job. I’m going to stay in that lane.”

But then Dunford took it a step further, telling Starr in no uncertain terms that he had no intention of ever offering comment on the president, even after he left the service of his country. “And that gets to the second part of your question: I will not now, nor will I when I take off the uniform, make judgments about the President of the United States or the Commander in Chief, I just won’t do it.”

*Using the word Green in the context of Spiral Dynamics (https://www.cruxcatalyst.com/2013/09/26/spiral-dynamics-a-way-of-understanding-human-nature/) - not in the context of "environmental 'green.'"

NotAPretender
29th August 2019, 15:09
Ok, my honest opinion.

I think it is ridiculous, if not outrageously stupid to debate 'OMIGOD GLOBAL WARMING'

At 13 my daughter summed it up nicely...Why not just do what is best for the planet?

The extreme Green* Progressive Left has created its inevitable counterpart - a responsive expression of tribalism from the right.

Oh, Jesus, just like a bad marriage...Who threw the 1st blow? Who cares...just fix it or forget it.

Wind
29th August 2019, 18:39
Guys, just watch this one hour long scientific representation (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11933-The-coming-or-not-mini-ice-age-as-a-Fermi-Problem?p=842014159&viewfull=1#post842014159) and give me your thoughts on it. I'd love to to hear them!

Sammy
31st August 2019, 17:32
Ok, my honest opinion.

I think it is ridiculous, if not outrageously stupid to debate 'OMIGOD GLOBAL WARMING'

At 13 my daughter summed it up nicely...Why not just do what is best for the planet?

The extreme Green* Progressive Left has created its inevitable counterpart - a responsive expression of tribalism from the right.

Oh, Jesus, just like a bad marriage...Who threw the 1st blow? Who cares...just fix it or forget it.

Understand I used the term Green (as I clearly stated in the post) in regards to Spiral Dynamics which is a behavioral model and has been highlighted by Ken Wilber for several decades. I used the term in the precise context of how Ken Wilber used it in the video you, NAP, referred to in a post you made recently (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/13163-We-Can-Save-The-World!-Let-s-Start-Here!?p=842014068&viewfull=1#post842014068) on another thread. I made this completely clear in my post yet you appear to have missed that or you would not have responded as you did.

Please review the video as well as my posts referencing (and quoting) Ken Wilber... his references to "Green" had nothing to do with climate change or "global warming."

Sammy
1st September 2019, 00:23
And now for the third time in 6 years I come uncannily close to the same place I landed the last two times I took this test.

Note: I decided I needed to take the test again because I was beginning to worry I might have shifted dramatically in my core, political views. Alas, I am only slightly less Libertarian than where I landed in the past and slightly further Left than where I landed in the past. I call this "The Trump Effect."

Interestingly, I am slightly less Libertarian and slightly more Left than Nelson Mandela. I am scarily not far from Bernie Sanders (probably overcompensating for the Trump Effect).

2368

NotAPretender
1st September 2019, 16:06
One thing I face daily is my own cosmic justice...If i could accept the reality of that, I think my world would be a better place. In light of that, I am going to hold my oh so capable vicious tongue. I'll do my penance as the day progresses. :)

Here's an example, just for kicks...

My AC has been acting stupid for a week. I was convinced it was a bad thermostat. So I went and bought one, didn't support my system, so I exchanged it. I ended up after doing a thorough search for the original contractors that replaced my old system, 3 years ago, having them come out and fix it. Turns out the 2nd replacement thermostat was defective and blowing fuses, the technician was suggesting that I would have to pay for a new transformer, likely to cost upwards of a thousand dollars, but no, just a blown fuse....So after troubleshooting, he ended up putting the old thermostat back in...it appeared to work great, so after about 15 minutes he concluded that it was good and packed up his stuff. I managed to grab him before he drove off to tell him the minute he left it quit working. 3 hours later he came back, pissed, because I had called the contracting company to take another look at my system. It was 85 degrees in my house and I was miserable. The end result was rather than pay him 500.00 dollars for an 80.00 thermostat I ordered one from Amazon (at the tech's suggestion). So after paying him 217.00 to let me know that I was correct in the first place, I am typing this in an 85 degree home waiting for my thermostat to arrive tomorrow. I have a very strong intuition that the story does not end here. :)

I hope everyone enjoyed that little tale of the Trials and Tribulations of living in a world that doesn't have antigravity technology as much as I did... :)

Sammy
2nd September 2019, 01:05
One thing I face daily is my own cosmic justice...If i could accept the reality of that, I think my world would be a better place. In light of that, I am going to hold my oh so capable vicious tongue. I'll do my penance as the day progresses. :)

Here's an example, just for kicks...

My AC has been acting stupid for a week. I was convinced it was a bad thermostat. So I went and bought one, didn't support my system, so I exchanged it. I ended up after doing a thorough search for the original contractors that replaced my old system, 3 years ago, having them come out and fix it. Turns out the 2nd replacement thermostat was defective and blowing fuses, the technician was suggesting that I would have to pay for a new transformer, likely to cost upwards of a thousand dollars, but no, just a blown fuse....So after troubleshooting, he ended up putting the old thermostat back in...it appeared to work great, so after about 15 minutes he concluded that it was good and packed up his stuff. I managed to grab him before he drove off to tell him the minute he left it quit working. 3 hours later he came back, pissed, because I had called the contracting company to take another look at my system. It was 85 degrees in my house and I was miserable. The end result was rather than pay him 500.00 dollars for an 80.00 thermostat I ordered one from Amazon (at the tech's suggestion). So after paying him 217.00 to let me know that I was correct in the first place, I am typing this in an 85 degree home waiting for my thermostat to arrive tomorrow. I have a very strong intuition that the story does not end here. :)

I hope everyone enjoyed that little tale of the Trials and Tribulations of living in a world that doesn't have antigravity technology as much as I did... :)

I actually appreciated you sharing the story. Be happy you are not living here in Texas and having to experience this fiasco.

NotAPretender
2nd September 2019, 11:48
My Dearest Sammy,

I live in Houston, Texas...so whatever be the fiasco, I am sharing it.

NotAPretender
2nd September 2019, 17:23
Story isn't over, yet... :)

New thermostat another 100.00 same thing. I did make it run a little longer by staring at it. I expect the contracting company will be here in about 2 hours. I paid 10,000 dollars for this piece of poopoo 3 years ago...According to the company it is unfortunate that I didn't pay the extra 99.00 dollars at the time to get service coverage...that's funny but I'm not laughing I'm too damn hot.

Sammy
2nd September 2019, 17:48
My Dearest Sammy,

I live in Houston, Texas...so whatever be the fiasco, I am sharing it.

Interesting as I thought California and also read your reference to 85 degrees (which is far below the highs here in Texas).

NotAPretender
2nd September 2019, 17:51
I suppose I should be glad it isn't 105 in my house...yet.

Sammy
2nd September 2019, 21:04
I have purchased and installed a programmable thermostat in more than one house I lived in. The key was identifying the wires available from my system with where they should be connected on the back of the thermostat. Never spent more than $30.00 and it worked like a charm. Makes me wonder if your issue may not be the thermostat.

NotAPretender
2nd September 2019, 21:49
It wasn't...water auto shutoff or some such thing...likely going to cost me another 300 easy

Sammy
3rd September 2019, 02:15
Guys, just watch this one hour long scientific representation (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11933-The-coming-or-not-mini-ice-age-as-a-Fermi-Problem?p=842014159&viewfull=1#post842014159) and give me your thoughts on it. I'd love to to hear them!

Thank you very much for this heads up.

I agree, we should not pollute our air, our water and our soil.

I agree, data selection matters.

The last thing I think that matters is that those who are willing to share their climate causes/changes opinions be well versed in the subject void of an agenda other to be helpful to the understanding of climate changes. If they make presentations such as the one cited by Wind, they must be thorough, honest and truthful. This video appeared very thorough.

Without knowing with any real ability to know (I don't have any formal education with regards to climate science) if the presenters of this material (Ben Davidson - SpaceWeatherNews and Professor Dr. Brian Tinsley, UT - Dallas) are free of any forced agenda and are extensive experts in the subject whereby they are making their presentation honestly and truthfully but they appear to be so. My intuition says they are good guys who simply want a thorough examination of what may actually be with regards to climate change.

If my intuition is correct of the above then that also confirms my intuition not to trust at all whatsoever the "global warming zealots" was also correct. Regardless and as Davidson states at the beginning and the end of the video -

We should not pollute our air, our water and our soil.

To that I say, "Duh!"

As to the power takeover / economic takeover efforts of the Al Gore/AOC types - "go pound sand."


And on another note - Aianawah is everywhere!

Micro - NAPs climate issue

Macro - Wind's climate change video (concerning the Earth and our Sun)

Sammy
3rd September 2019, 13:25
I am getting so tired of saycism. If saycism continues, the emotionally vulnerable saycists and those who reach their limit with regard to saycism will clash to the point it becomes violent. Eventually all out war will occur.

Exactly what the AREs want.

Dreamtimer
3rd September 2019, 21:56
Saycism?

Gingrich, Rove, et al, taught us to just keep saying things over and over again so folks will believe. They gave us lists of words to use. Hammer them home. Beat the drum.

Is that an example of 'saycism'?

Sammy
4th September 2019, 02:03
Saycism?

Gingrich, Rove, et al, taught us to just keep saying things over and over again so folks will believe. They gave us lists of words to use. Hammer them home. Beat the drum.

Is that an example of 'saycism'?

First, taught who? Who is in your "us?" Are you in your "us?" Who else is in your "us?" Could you name any other human being to be within the group you called "us?" Seriously, you use the term "we" and "us" all the time with a clear intent to imply "everyone." Please, stop this as I am not in your "we" or "us" most of the time.

In addition, you come on my thread to ask a question which I truly appreciate and would truly love to answer, yet you have to frame your question within a political framework as both people you cited (prior to your et al.) are two Republican operatives. DT, you appear truly intelligent enough and aware enough and educated enough to have heard of Joseph Goebbels who is the modern attributee of the tactic you pin to others. If you have done further homework you may be familiar with Machiavelli. But this tactic dates back to time immemorial and is found in various similar forms throughout known history. It is telling that your intention is clearly political. Why?

Understand saycism is an act that is being committed at levels never imaginable by the sane yet has become a prolific tactic resorted to by those who have no ability to engage in honest discussion about most if not all issues.

But to honor your request, I will be happy to define the word, saycism, which is actions committed by a saycist.

A saycist is a person that calls someone a racist or points out a behavior that they then claim is racist, when there is no rational basis to make the claim.

Here is a recent great example:


“Climate scientists have found that the effects of climate change are harsher on the Global south, which is primarily populated by people of color. So to do nothing about climate change, or to support policies that are driving climate change, is to be racist...”

Ibram Kendi

Another form of saycism is the recent trend where some folks state that all white people are automatically racist just for being white. To say that is saycist.

I hope my definition and two examples have cleared up any confusion.

Aianawa
4th September 2019, 07:15
Am wee bit confused, you sayin DT is a sayist ?.

Elen
4th September 2019, 07:40
Am wee bit confused, you sayin DT is a sayist ?.

Me too! :confused:

Wind
4th September 2019, 11:10
Regarding climate change, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Children are the political tool of choice in the hands of shameless propagandists (http://www.newropeans-magazine.org/en/2019/02/01/children-are-the-political-tool-of-choice-in-the-hands-of-shameless-propagandists/)

NotAPretender
4th September 2019, 11:26
A lot of truth...I know my daughter since childhood has been eco aware, I'm a little ambivalent about patriotic propaganda, nationalism and other propaganda that is intended for self-serving ends versus a literal positive push to save Gaia?

As I said ambivalent, I'll let those interested sort it out for me... :)

NotAPretender
4th September 2019, 11:47
For Whatever It's Worth: Our natural inclination is to divide into 'We' and 'Us', as well as, 'Us' and 'Them'. One of the Seven Deadly Sins. If we choose to not be 'Us' or 'We', then by derivation we have separated into 'Them' versus 'Us'

Dreamtimer
5th September 2019, 14:31
Gingrich was on the floor of the House being broadcast by CSPAN for any and all Americans to hear.

"We" are Americans. As in "We the People".

One of the reasons folks called him brilliant is that he got all that air time for free and got his message out to many many folks.


I'm using the language of our Forefathers. We are all Americans. Maybe you consider yourself to be in a special club, Sammy. I don't know what that is.

We the people should be working together to figure out how to deal with whatever climate change comes to affect all of us.

Sorry you don't like basic pronouns, but I will continue to use them.

Just like our Founding Fathers did. (am I sexist for referring to 'fathers'? no, of course not)