View Full Version : Meddling

Fred Steeves
3rd February 2019, 14:47
With meddling being America's new favorite buzzword for the last two years, I thought this brief history of our own meddling might be of interest to some. This list only goes up to 1996, and only applies to Latin America, but I think it serves to show that we are hardly the ones to be wagging our self righteous finger at anyone.

As an aside, how much border security would the U.S. really need were it not for all of our "meddling" down there in the name of business interests, and national security?

And with the current hoopla of "build that wall" and "caravans" from Honduras, the most recent U.S. meddling I could find there was 2009 under Obama. Might that have something to do with this mess?

Sadly that question, and this bitter history, will never be allowed to surface into public discourse. Just wave that flag and support the troops!

Evidence described in the article suggests that the Pentagon's main interest was in maintaining relations with a close military ally, rather than in overturning the coup. Though the battle over Honduras appeared to be fought along partisan lines, in the end it was the Obama administration's State Department that sabotaged efforts to have Zelaya restored to the presidency, as statements by former Secretary Clinton and other high-level officials admit.

Since the coup, the militarization of Honduras has increased. While human rights abuses continue to shock the public, US security assistance and military training continue unabated. Under President Trump and the coterie of military officers surrounding him, including former SOUTHCOM commander and now White House chief of staff John Kelly, US-backed militarization appears likely to deepen in Honduras and elsewhere throughout the region.

"What this reveals are behind-the-scenes aspects of an episode that profoundly damaged the US relationship with Latin America as a whole, as the US was an outlier in supporting the coup, and opposition to the coup among Latin American governments was led by Brazil," Johnston says. "In the end, the US State Department quietly allowed the military and other hard-line factions to determine policy and support the coup's success."

This story is especially relevant for the current moment, as the hard-line, military factions who prevailed in shaping the US response to the Honduran coup are now in senior positions in the Trump administration, raising troubling prospects for what the US reaction to another military coup d'etat would be under Trump.

3rd February 2019, 15:04
that is the 3rd side of the coin...

Business interests...it's a tangled web but in essence is nothing but exploitation, an ugly facade covering a me before you morality. And as you have pointed out, always been the case. We are one thought away from changing the world.

3rd February 2019, 17:57
that is the 3rd side of the coin...

Business interests...

Not a third side of the coin, but rather the metal that the coin with the two sides is made of. :)

3rd February 2019, 18:55
even better...

I hereby dub you "King of the Metaphor!" :)

4th February 2019, 01:38
I mentioned the term Manifest Destiny to a friend once. He looked at me, said, "Boy were you raised with a liberal education!" and walked out of the room. I hadn't even finished my sentence and he didn't even know what I was going to say about it.

It was a weird trigger.

He used to react to people and make personal comments about them and then walk away. And people would apologize for him. "He's really patriotic. Don't take it personally."

I was always mystified. Why did so many people make apologies for him? Why did he get a pass because he was a patriot? Why did he get to insult people?

This was in the early nineties.

7th February 2019, 18:22
Here's a bit about meddling. It involves countries south of the US, Elliot Abrams, and...wait for it...oil. ;)


Maybe Abrams was one of those behind-the-scenes folk you were referring to Fred, come back for more.

Fred Steeves
7th February 2019, 22:41
Ah yes, Elliott Abrams, enter the latest who's who from the neocon greatest hits list to the party. I'm sure he's chomping at the bit to get back in the saddle of regime change, this time in Venezuela; his "adventures" in Latin America were such a long time ago for the poor old fella. Maybe he can help get one more for The Gipper here. :)

So long as we're globetrotting I think Syria (as Libya is already long forgotten) is still deserving of honorable mention. Starting under the previous administration, and of course continuing into the next, Professor Jeffrey Sachs schools Morning Joe last April in describing this particular cluster fuck. Only 5 minutes:


So anyway back to Venezuela. Some actual true journalism for a change check this out, we sure love our Projects:


Juan Guaidó is the product of a decade-long project overseen by Washington’s elite regime change trainers. While posing as a champion of democracy, he has spent years at the forefront of a violent campaign of destabilization.

8th February 2019, 14:44
"The Gipper" is such a telling phrase. Our President, being referred to by a TV name. So warm and fuzzy.

Where's that Calvin and Hobbes strip?

Ah yes.
https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimage s%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSEx-c3Ydx-2ayF7fQJLuJ60be7bTpAsTk-XGPYPPCX2xd84AE8Vg&sp=1f45e26570db5dac0a4e7c34970548ad&anticache=879681

Fred Steeves
9th February 2019, 13:21