The Bat Kave Kosmic Konspiracy Korner

[Dumpster Diver]

Hi folks, I'm starting the BKKKK where anything and everything is konsidered and kontemplated with a few jokes throw in to keep you folks mellow.

I've also bought a bunch of Far Side books (and others) from the used book section of the the library (5 for $1 per each) which I'll post appropriate and inappropriate kartoons.

Speaking of which, let's post a konspiracy kartoon to start off:

https://i.imgur.com/i7WbFpY.jpg

[Dumpster Diver]

Next:

I got an electrosmog meter

http://www.emfnews.org/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/e/d/ed-65-cornet-6ghz-electrosmogrfmeter_3_2.jpg

...and started testing the heck outta everything. Here's what I found:

Kontrary to what everyone says, a single wifi transmitter a room away is not very strong. The meter stayed in a pretty healthy green light mode. However, if you are sitting right next to the wifi antenna in your basement you can get rather strong signals. So, turning off the wifi at night is good, but leaving it on probably won't hurt you as it tends to be barely above ambient, unless of course, it is next to you in the room.

On the other hand, your iPhone and iPad radiate like krazy. Even holding the phone an arm legnth away it stayed in the yellows and occasional red. So, turn off your pet addiction while you sleep, and think about keeping it on airplane mode except when you need it. Or better yet, buy an old flip phone. They don't radiate and you really don't need to see all the crap on Facebook...it'll just piss you off anyway.

Your microwave radiates too. So when you nuke stuff, get away from your microwave...or better yet, cook it up old style on a stove...or even better yet: eat raw things...it's way better for ya...

What else? I walked around a mall for an afternoon...with all the wifis on from all the various stores, the meter stayed in the yellow to red zone almost all the time.

Smart Meters seem to not radiate much. Ours is pretty quiet, but we have a new one that was swapped in with the Solar power array we put on the house.

I walked under a power line...stayed in the green ambient the whole time. I haven't tried any main-line high tension wires. Also, need to go by the electric substation a few blocks away...so more on that later.

[Aianawa]

You imo have created a top five of the year thread, have you tested to see if it can go to highest mode ?

[Dumpster Diver]

You imo have created a top five of the year thread, have you tested to see if it can go to highest mode ?

Oh, yes. I maxed it out (red zone) by holding it next to my iPhone...actually I laid the meter on top of the phone, just like some folks hold it next to their head.

I've never done such, by the way. I always have the speaker on and hold it about 30-40 cms away from me. BTW, at that distance it stays in the yellow most of the time.

[Dumpster Diver]

oh, and here's a rather new report out:

cell phone radiation causes cancer in rats:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-studies-link-cell-phone-radiation-with-cancer/

[Aragorn]

oh, and here's a rather new report out:

cell phone radiation causes cancer in rats:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-studies-link-cell-phone-radiation-with-cancer/

This proves that rats are far more intelligent than humans. After all, when was the last time you saw a rat using a cellphone? :p :hiding:



P.S.: I've moved this thread from Off-Topic to the Topical Musings category. ;)

[modwiz]

Next:

I got an electrosmog meter

http://www.emfnews.org/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/e/d/ed-65-cornet-6ghz-electrosmogrfmeter_3_2.jpg

...and started testing the heck outta everything. Here's what I found:

Kontrary to what everyone says, a single wifi transmitter a room away is not very strong. The meter stayed in a pretty healthy green light mode. However, if you are sitting right next to the wifi antenna in your basement you can get rather strong signals. So, turning off the wifi at night is good, but leaving it on probably won't hurt you as it tends to be barely above ambient, unless or course, it is next to you in the room.

On the other hand, your iPhone and iPad radiate like krazy. Even holding the phone an arm legnth away it stayed in the yellows and occasional red. So, turn off your pet addiction while you sleep, and think about keeping it on airplane mode except when you need it. Or better yet, buy an old flip phone. They don't radiate and you really don't need to see all the crap on Facebook...it'll just piss you off anyway.

Your microwave radiates too. So when you nuke stuff, get away from your microwave...or better yet, cook it up old style on a stove...or even better yet: eat raw things...it's way better for ya...

What else? I walked around a mall for an afternoon...with all the wifis on from all the various stores, the meter stayed in the yellow to red zone almost all the time.

Smart Meters seem to not radiate much. Ours is pretty quiet, but we have a new one that was swapped in with the Solar power array we put on the house.

I walked under a power line...stayed in the green ambient the whole time. I haven't tried any main-line high tension wires. Also, need to go by the electric substation a few blocks away...so more on that later.

I enjoyed that report. Good stuff.:thup:

[Aianawa]

Mmmm is it official then ?, Sir Dumpy has , before our very eyes, evolved to a level not before seen ?

[Maggie]

I loves me a good Konspiracy.

The best entertainment to me is based on fact and the fact IMO IS

Whatever we focus on multplies. I We can enjoy any drama in the whole possible Universal archive.
I am not making light of the torment in plots to destroy the world.
What I am mulling over is: what is as entertaining as horror has been?

I am just tired of the cruel and the senseless and the stupid.
If I see it, I want to say something right then to its face.

I'll probably read about the next bad and unbelievable but true machination.

The big difference is that I will realize who is observer here. Me. That role is supreme because it decides what it all means.

Since I just heard this meme: I am going to "stop being a loyal opposition". By lamenting the world has gone to the dregs of hopeless madness and I am appalled, I support the EXISTENCE of the nefarious Konspirators against life and liberty and everything preferable.

As the observer I will look at changing the imaginations I go to sleep on.
I am going to reconfigure the intention of Konspiracy as being the "Universe is conspiring in my favor". I'll intend the same for all beings as I am a being too.

I wants me a sweet old fashioned love story and how love triumphs. I want 100% immersion so I feel this thrilling love to the tips of my toes. I am tired of second hand news that i cannot prove or disprove because I was never THERE. It hurts to hear of 20,00) or even one child abused but none of them are where I can cuddle them. . I am not interested in poverty, war, rascism, sexism, human/ecological genocide and so far so good here in Morganton where I am sitting for me. I have everything I could need and myriads of plants and wildlife despite hearing how everything is dying. I am fat enough so could be without food in a crisis. That is my prep for the revolution.

I always prefer to dwell on what I love to think about. I want to find buried treasure and the holy grail. I want ROMANCE where the hero is valliant and the heroine sassy. I want peace on earth so I can go anywhere in my personal vimana.

[Dumpster Diver]

Mmmm is it official then ?, Sir Dumpy has , before our very eyes, evolved to a level not before seen ?

No chance. While it’s true there are no konspiracy theories I won’t konsider, but I’m not into stuff like flat earth, or the Neburu stuff, or whether Aragorn is really an Ewok. Better explanations exist for those for all those excepting perhaps Aragorn.

[Aragorn]

No chance. While it’s true there are no konspiracy theories I won’t konsider, but I’m not into stuff like flat earth, or the Neburu stuff, or whether Aragorn is really an Ewok. Better explanations exist for those for all those excepting perhaps Aragorn.



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/04/3d/a3043d3de65368ae525ad9350944a8cb.jpg

[Dumpster Diver]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a3/04/3d/a3043d3de65368ae525ad9350944a8cb.jpg

See? Aragorn has proof!

https://img.ifcdn.com/images/5e1d2e5433e075824485de288a5f0f6f2ac19f6978eeb03b5e 01c65c94a7b3b6_1.jpg

[Dumpster Diver]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e0/5a/dc/e05adc4a7e6924f88b5c3d89fb02b1aa.jpg

[Dreamtimer]

Hi folks, I'm starting the BKKKK where anything and everything is konsidered and kontemplated with a few jokes throw in to keep you folks mellow.

I've also bought a bunch of Far Side books (and others) from the used book section of the the library (5 for $1 per each) which I'll post appropriate and inappropriate kartoons.

Speaking of which, let's post a konspiracy kartoon to start off:

https://i.imgur.com/i7WbFpY.jpg

I always thought Fred was a bit naughty...:ttr: (just kidding Mr. Steeves)


I want peace on earth so I can go anywhere in my personal vimana.

Word, Maggie.

Still laughing at the ewoks.

[Dumpster Diver]

Update on David Wilcock, Corey Goode and the missing Blue Chickens!

My deep sources tell me what really happened to CG's mysterious Blue Chickens:

Here's the logic train points:

1) The only guy(s) who have seen the Chickens, and lived to tell the tail, has been Corey Goode. DW hasn't seen them and was told by CG that he, DW, was not "worthy" to see them (too many cock-tails, perhaps). Further, CG's adventures in Blue Chicken Land was only verified by CG. None of DW's many other contacts can verify the a) trips to Venus b) trips to the Moon c) trips to outlying stations orbiting Saturn, or indeed anything much at all, d) trips to Antarctica in the Agarthian “super space ship” that can pass thru walls, mountains, and whatever e) getting beat up by Secret Space Program (SSP) blackhats and f) whatever other adventures only seen by him that I’m having a senior moment on.

2) Both DW and CG are sincere or Oscar worthy actors. A whole lot of folks (tens of thousands, perhaps even millions) are convinced they are telling the truth as they see it, and frankly so am I.

3) As stated by CG, the Agarthians came back 18 million years ago to “maintain the timeline” that ensures their existence. They have, as admitted by CG, created religions, interfered in our shared history numerous times, allowed all sorts mayhem plus consorted with and allowed badguys both human and not, to mess with us. And the Cordon Bleu Chickens said (according to CG) “the Agarthians were not good stewards of humanity.”

So given all this is going on and that both CG and DW are believable where would Occam’s razor leave you?

My deep source tells me The Blue Chickens are a mind control phenomenon created by the Agarthians to fool CG, and the millions of Gaia believers in order to help co-create the timeline favorable for the Agarthians. All they had to do was plant a bunch of false memories in CG.

Now, this is pretty easy to do as the Clowns in Action (CIA) have been doing it for years on tons of folks so certainly “4th level” critters certainly have such in their bag of tricks.

Going further, perhaps even the Agarthians are a mind control trick by the CIA? OK, but what would be the motive? Frankly, I tend to not see this as there is plenty of history backing up the existence of the Agarthians (Asgardians…etc) before the existence of the CIA.

So the Blue Chickens never existed except as a mind control trick to push millions into co-creating a favorable timeline for Asgard.

[Dumpster Diver]

https://memecrunch.com/meme/JE8Z/gandalf-or-magneto/image.jpg?w=586&c=1

[Dreamtimer]

They'd better get their ass-guards out 'cause we're about to start kicking.

[Dumpster Diver]

They'd better get their ass-guards out 'cause we're about to start kicking.

...umm, sounds like something in a LBGQT parade...

[Dreamtimer]

Sorry, just being punny. Hunny.

I'm naturally inclined to assume (teehee) heterosexuality unless it's really obviously something different. The majority of people are hetero anyway.


"...Cordon Bleu Chickens...":lol:



We have a certain amount of control of the timeline based on our foresight, decisions and actions. The Agarthians can only control so much. Are there really enough believers relative to the billions on the planet?

[Dumpster Diver]

Sorry, just being punny. Hunny.

I'm naturally inclined to assume (teehee) heterosexuality unless it's really obviously something different. The majority of people are hetero anyway.


"...Cordon Bleu Chickens...":lol:



We have a certain amount of control of the timeline based on our foresight, decisions and actions. The Agarthians can only control so much. Are there really enough believers relative to the billions on the planet?

The billions are not focused, DW’s millions largely are.

A few thousands folks meditating on reducing crime have done so in the past.

[Dreamtimer]

Exactly what are they focused on? They believe his story but that's not the same as a focused meditation. Are they doing that? Are they doing rituals? (I know that came up in one of Dark Journalist's videos).

It's a wide array of things being believed in. How is their energy channeled into changing or keeping a timeline?

[Emil El Zapato]

I'm rooting for the diverging paths...I'm ready to move forward so I won't have any restrictions on whom I can keep company...Blue Chickens be damned....

[Dumpster Diver]

Exactly what are they focused on? They believe his story but that's not the same as a focused meditation. Are they doing that? Are they doing rituals? (I know that came up in one of Dark Journalist's videos).

It's a wide array of things being believed in. How is their energy channeled into changing or keeping a timeline?

I’ve no idea, I’m not in that cult. Maybe you ought to get tickets to one of their desert seances and report back...

[Dreamtimer]

I guess I'm wondering what you think, Dumpy. Why is their belief so influential, beyond just being belief? A hundred people can watch something, believe, yet have different perspectives and expectations.

[Dumpster Diver]

I guess I'm wondering what you think, Dumpy. Why is their belief so influential, beyond just being belief? A hundred people can watch something, believe, yet have different perspectives and expectations.

Well as I said, they are told what to focus on, and they pack up and do it together. With Agarthians working in the “background” I think you have a very large group centered on making Agarthian “history happen”.

Again, we’ve seen what thousands can do, millions can change the planet. DW and others reported the timeline was shifted during the US great eclipse by so many folks meditating on a pro Agarthian timeline...heck, they even had me doing that.

This is just like rushing a Fraternity, they got hazed when they rushed, so we need to be hazed to maintain the Fraternity principles (timeline)...to heck with making things better this time around.

[Dreamtimer]

I didn't rush...well, I quit after two days.

How can you commit so much to something you have only a few minutes to assess? Didn't make sense to me.

So if I'm not rushing and not submitting to hazing, what are the options? (I'm not joining your Kult, Dumpy)

[Dumpster Diver]

I didn't rush...well, I quit after two days.

How can you commit so much to something you have only a few minutes to assess? Didn't make sense to me.

So if I'm not rushing and not submitting to hazing, what are the options? (I'm not joining your Kult, Dumpy)

...who is doing the committing? I’m just over here in my corner of paradise buying survivalist gear to fend off the Phoenix walking dead when they arrive...

...and hey, if I start a Kult it’ll be something like what the Bhagwan did, but I’ll pick a better place with neighbors that are not gun carrying “Christian” nutjobs...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneesh

[Amanda]

CIA = Clowns in Action. Have never seen/heard that one - hilarious! A bit like NASA = Never A Straight Answer. Here in Australia there was an airline company called QANTAS (it's actually Queensland and Northern Territory Air Service) but it was also known as = Queers and Nymphomaniaca Trained As Stewards. No offence intended but it is a little funny.

Much Respect - Amanda

[Dumpster Diver]

CIA = Clowns in Action. Have never seen/heard that one - hilarious! A bit like NASA = Never A Straight Answer. Here in Australia there was an airline company called QANTAS (it's actually Queensland and Northern Territory Air Service) but it was also known as = Queers and Nymphomaniaca Trained As Stewards. No offence intended but it is a little funny.

Much Respect - Amanda

“Clowns in Action” is not my term. It comes from a commonly used figure of speech amongst folks in the counterintelligence biz, of which I was part in the early 90s. Actually a more accurate term would be “crims in action” to use an OZ term for criminals.

[Dreamtimer]

I should have said, "How can a person...?"

Crims in action. Do they then tacitly admit to criminality?

Is this a distant cousin maybe?
https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimage s%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcSrfzGE82z8sxKXXbU2FrtsyOB6YrAP DQljHxxxl05kI2Rm3eXbnw&sp=93db6dafeb3b6f42565e151e01c68111&anticache=348290

I guess you like some music in the Konspiracy Kave:
https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimage s%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcRigxwA1VjqXr9gg05Ud8YMngNqeSEo iyPI54Lnlp4oOVmCGgWy&sp=169285301883848dd883bbd08d74ba9b&anticache=945346

Play another record!https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.garagehangover.co m%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2FKandyKoloredKonspi racyMedia45OneMillionPeople-320x320.jpg&sp=02fae334e9c4d27923f53333dfdd47be

[Aragorn]

CIA = Clowns in Action. Have never seen/heard that one - hilarious! A bit like NASA = Never A Straight Answer. Here in Australia there was an airline company called QANTAS (it's actually Queensland and Northern Territory Air Service) but it was also known as = Queers and Nymphomaniaca Trained As Stewards. No offence intended but it is a little funny.

Much Respect - Amanda

You forgot the NSA = "No Such Agency". ;)

[Dumpster Diver]

Ouija Board witchery

A lot of folks don’t realize just how dangerous that Ouija Board you pull out of the closet for Halloween can be. Heres an interesting story I just stumbled across today:

http://www.oddiest.com/paranormal/zozo-the-ouija-board-demon-who-will-ruin-your-life-yreyre6e/01.html

Do youself a favor, take it out and BURN it so that the kids don’t accidentially find it and mess with it.

[Dumpster Diver]

Honeypots for the Alt-World Community

The latest revelation from the David Wilcock/Gaia TV food fight has revealed situations that could target you which I’ve theorized make sense from a logic point of view and from my experience in Counterintelligence. Here’s the logic train:

Thinking like the bad guys:

1) The most damaging groups in terms of countering your “Bad-Guy” agendas, whatever they are, are us, the awake and aware folks who also group together and meditate and/or otherwise contribute our time and money to working against bad guy agendas.

2) If you can create a “honeypot” where you can identify who we are, you can target us and negate us (kill, maim, sicken, etc). You have a number of ways where you can do this:

- conduct meetings where, in order to join up (like Contact in the Desert, or some other like-minded grouping) you must register with your name, snail address, phone number and e-mail.

- host forums (like this one, or more importantly the Kool-aid stand - Project Avalon)

- Create a TV network that caters to alt-world interests (GaiaTV)

- Host Patreon platforms where we alt-world folks contribute money to favorite alt-world personalities.

The point of this activity is to gather info on people where you can, if you are the bad guys, wholesale take out these groups when the “time is right”.

3) this makes sense from a COINTELPRO-like standpoint.

4) Now we have confirmation from Patty Greer in her latest interview that this is happening:


Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzxAhq4L_ZI

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Bs9F6naWIs

- she was targeted at a UFO meeting of alt-world folks and claims to have been hit by and energy weapon of some sort.

- she claims that Gaia TV is planning to send out “Black Boxes” to all their subscribers.

So, bottom line: stay home, preserve your contact info, and stay paranoid my friends.

[Chris]

Caution, do not say or read any of the below names out loud!

They are dangerous and have incredible power. A few people who did that came under psychic attack almost immediately, proceed reading forward at your own risk!!!


Ouija Board witchery

A lot of folks don’t realize just how dangerous that Ouija Board you pull out of the closet for Halloween can be. Heres an interesting story I just stumbled across today:

http://www.oddiest.com/paranormal/zozo-the-ouija-board-demon-who-will-ruin-your-life-yreyre6e/01.html

Do youself a favor, take it out and BURN it so that the kids don’t accidentially find it and mess with it.

This guy was also the protagonist of The Exorcist movie and I am Zozo. That's not his actual name, it just sounds like that a bit. He is a wind demon, so his name sounds a bit like the blowing wind. His Sumerian name is Pazuzu (or probably Pazaza is a closer transliteration of the original Sumerian). His Hebrew name is Azazel.

Just don't say any of his names out loud as they are incredibly powerful and dangerous.

I saw him in the underworld and know what he looks like. This was the Demon that I mentioned in another post, that tried to deceive me, recruit me to his cause and when i refused, pulled me out of my body and took me to the underworld astrally. Whilst there, he tried to take me over, but I managed to get away. I don't want to describe what he looks like, but you can easily find out with a bit of research. He really doesn't care for Jews and they are his main obsession. He told me that he was behind Hitler, the Holocaust and many of today's Neo-Nazi movements.

His hatred of Jews stems from the fact that Rabbis perform a ceremony each year, where they curse him and transfer all the Sins (Karma) of the Jewish people on to him, by using a sacrificial goat. That is where the term scapegoat comes from. He is that scapegoat. He is also the leader of the biblical group of fallen angels, known as the watchers.

I know that sharing this information will get me into a huge amount of trouble, but you should know the truth about him, before you attempt to get anywhere near him. Beware.

I once said his name out loud to a friend and described to him what he looked like. We came under instant psychic attack and got a massive headache and nightmares the following night. Be incredibly careful around him and if you can avoid it, try not to research him at all.

He also told me that he is working on finishing what he had started with Hitler and the Holocaust. He is a very serious threat to humanity and you should all be aware of this. He told me, that many Neo-Nazi leaders report directly to him or are controlled by him.

[Emil El Zapato]

:) I had a psychic dream episode with the/a demon. I smashed his head to pieces against a hallway wall. :) Never mess with a cornered animal.

[Dreamtimer]

Something struck me as odd. The writer keeps mentioning that saying the name out loud is bad and using the board is bad. So why put the video in? It's uttered aloud several times.

[Dumpster Diver]

Something struck me as odd. The writer keeps mentioning that saying the name out loud is bad and using the board is bad. So why put the video in? It's uttered aloud several times.

He/she was sitting within a pentagram?

[Dreamtimer]

Whoever watches the video is going to hear the name spoken, see the session, see the girl begin to freak out, and there's no closure. It's an odd thing to put in such a warning.

[Aragorn]

Something struck me as odd. The writer keeps mentioning that saying the name out loud is bad and using the board is bad. So why put the video in? It's uttered aloud several times.

There is a 1998 movie about this demon, called "Fallen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_%281998_film%29)", starring Denzel Washington, John Goodman, Donald Sutherland, Embeth Davidtz, James Gandolfini and Elias Koteas. It's pretty good, actually. ;)

[Dumpster Diver]

Well, here’s a weird one. I was reading Chris’ post “out loud” to sound out the names (wind sounds) and I immediately got a headache.

Did a psychic blast, then a few meditations, then another blast, then a blessing and got out of that room to do some work. Headache went away. Later, when I reentered the room, a headache came on again. Cleared the room with another blast and a different incantation. Room seems to be cleared now.

Chris, you may want to edit your post and put your caution to not read the names out loud BEFORE the names.

[Chris]

Well, here’s a weird one. I was reading Chris’ post “out loud” to sound out the names (wind sounds) and I immediately got a headache.

Did a psychic blast, then a few meditations, then another blast, then a blessing and got out of that room to do some work. Headache went away. Later, when I reentered the room, a headache came on again. Cleared the room with another blast and a different incantation. Room seems to be cleared now.

Chris, you may want to edit your post and put your caution to not read the names out loud BEFORE the names.

Thank you for your warning. I did just that.

I am not surprised, He really doesn't like it when somebody reveals his true identity, very few people know about this. I believe he is the most powerful malevolent entity currently on the planet, or rather, in it. His physical location is deep underground in the Abzu or Underworld.

I also got a headache just now, I know he is not pleased with what I have done. The people who revealed his identity in the Exorcist Movie, got into a whole lot of trouble as well.

The friend I mentioned in the previous post has the ability to see spirits, due to a NDE after an accident. He saw them attacking us as soon as I said his name out loud. The entity in question is their leader.

You should also know that he has been presented in a positive light in some movies and TV shows. He is an Anime character for children and he appeared as a somewhat sympathetic character in a couple of TV shows, mostly to do with angels. There was a 2-season British Tv show, called Hex, where he was played by Michael Fassbender, again somewhat sympathetically. These are all very dangerous, and if you have children, make sure they don't come in contact with any of these shows.

[Chris]

There is a 1998 movie about this demon, called "Fallen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_%281998_film%29)", starring Denzel Washington, John Goodman, Donald Sutherland, Embeth Davidtz, James Gandolfini and Elias Koteas. It's pretty good, actually. ;)

I just watched the trailer. He looks nothing like that. It is a lie he likes to propagate about himself. When he first approached me and tried to deceive me, he showed himself as sweet and loving, like a spiritual master of sorts that will teach me great things. This was shortly after my Kundalini awakening, when my mind opened up and the light that was shining at the top of my head attracted him. I never asked him, but he flashed images of himself as a tall, blonde angel basically, suggesting that is what he looked like.

Imagine my surprise when one night, whilst I was in deep meditation, conversing with him, he pulled me down into the underworld.

I found myself floating around helplessly, in a dimly lit, vast cavern. I only saw the cave walls at that point but I felt like someone was pulling my strings from behind. I struggled a bit flaying my arms around and I managed to turn around eventually. Imagine my surprise when I saw a giant demon, at least twice my size, sitting there cross-legged. He had a humanoid body, but looked exactly like some of his more famous depictions as a demon, if you care to do the research.

No, he wasn't a tall blonde, in case you're wondering. I do believe though that he will appear as such, even in person if the situation warrants it, as will the other watchers. Let's just say that the Nazis' obsession with tall blonde humans is not an accident and came after a visit from this group, and probably the leader himself. Also, Adolf Hitler calling himself "the leader" wasn't a coincidence either, I'm fairly sure, though I cannot vouch for it, that he saw said entity as his inspiration. It is even possible that he was controlled by him through the Thule society, though all we have is rumours regarding this point.

When I looked into his eyes, a strange thing happened. He blinked exactly when I blinked. This went on for a while and I realised that we are mentally connected and he was trying to take me over by connecting to my chakras, from behind. Then he realised the jig was up and actually looked really surprised that I had discovered him and what he really looked like. I realised at this point that he no longer had control over me, though I wasn't scared at all, just really surprised. He looked sort of impressed that I had found him out and mischievous, like a child that was just found out over a prank. He released me almost immediately after that and I found myself back on the surface of the earth and in my body.

He did try to contact me a couple of times after that over the years, but I always sent him away, politely and firmly. He always tried to deceive me with various lies about himself and his agenda. He even tried to explain away his appearance as a result of the ancient Jewish curse on him, which gets repeated and reinforced every year, in the deserts of Israel.

[Dumpster Diver]

I just watched the trailer. He looks nothing like that. It is a lie he likes to propagate about himself. When he first approached me and tried to deceive me, he showed himself as sweet and loving, like a spiritual master of sorts that will teach me great things. This was shortly after my Kundalini awakening, when my mind opened up and the light that was shining at the top of my head attracted him. I never asked him, but he flashed images of himself as a tall, blonde angel basically, suggesting that is what he looked like.

Imagine my surprise when one night, whilst I was in deep meditation, conversing with him, he pulled me down into the underworld.

I found myself floating around helplessly, in a dimly lit, vast cavern. I only saw the cave walls at that point but I felt like someone was pulling my strings from behind. I struggled a bit flaying my arms around and I managed to turn around eventually. Imagine my surprise when I saw a giant demon, at least twice my size, sitting there cross-legged. He had a humanoid body, but looked exactly like some of his more famous depictions as a demon, if you care to do the research.

No, he wasn't a tall blonde, in case you're wondering. I do believe though that he will appear as such, even in person if the situation warrants it, as will the other watchers. Let's just say that the Nazis' obsession with tall blonde humans is not an accident and came after a visit from this group, and probably the leader himself. Also, Adolf Hitler calling himself "the leader" wasn't a coincidence either, I'm fairly sure, though I cannot vouch for it, that he saw said entity as his inspiration. It is even possible that he was controlled by him through the Thule society, though all we have is rumours regarding this point.

When I looked into his eyes, a strange thing happened. He blinked exactly when I blinked. This went on for a while and I realised that we are mentally connected and he was trying to take me over by connecting to my chakras, from behind. Then he realised the jig was up and actually looked really surprised that I had discovered him and what he really looked like. I realised at this point that he no longer had control over me, though I wasn't scared at all, just really surprised. He looked sort of impressed that I had found him out and mischievous, like a child that was just found out over a prank. He released me almost immediately after that and I found myself back on the surface of the earth and in my body.

He did try to contact me a couple of times after that over the years, but I always sent him away, politely and firmly. He always tried to deceive me with various lies about himself and his agenda. He even tried to explain away his appearance as a result of the ancient Jewish curse on him, which gets repeated and reinforced every year, in the deserts of Israel.

So, he has been around for at least 12,000 years, and probably about 25,000 years before that. I wonder if he will be cleared out in this next event?


oh, and here's a rather new report out:

cell phone radiation causes cancer in rats:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-studies-link-cell-phone-radiation-with-cancer/

...and this one on smart meters:


https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/reports-of-illness-prompt-audit-of-smart-meter-radiation/news-story/85bcf8401fcc346e809cd71c45eabbd1

[Maggie]

I just watched the trailer. He looks nothing like that. It is a lie he likes to propagate about himself. When he first approached me and tried to deceive me, he showed himself as sweet and loving, like a spiritual master of sorts that will teach me great things. This was shortly after my Kundalini awakening, when my mind opened up and the light that was shining at the top of my head attracted him. I never asked him, but he flashed images of himself as a tall, blonde angel basically, suggesting that is what he looked like.

Imagine my surprise when one night, whilst I was in deep meditation, conversing with him, he pulled me down into the underworld.

I found myself floating around helplessly, in a dimly lit, vast cavern. I only saw the cave walls at that point but I felt like someone was pulling my strings from behind. I struggled a bit flaying my arms around and I managed to turn around eventually. Imagine my surprise when I saw a giant demon, at least twice my size, sitting there cross-legged. He had a humanoid body, but looked exactly like some of his more famous depictions as a demon, if you care to do the research.

No, he wasn't a tall blonde, in case you're wondering. I do believe though that he will appear as such, even in person if the situation warrants it, as will the other watchers. Let's just say that the Nazis' obsession with tall blonde humans is not an accident and came after a visit from this group, and probably the leader himself. Also, Adolf Hitler calling himself "the leader" wasn't a coincidence either, I'm fairly sure, though I cannot vouch for it, that he saw said entity as his inspiration. It is even possible that he was controlled by him through the Thule society, though all we have is rumours regarding this point.

When I looked into his eyes, a strange thing happened. He blinked exactly when I blinked. This went on for a while and I realised that we are mentally connected and he was trying to take me over by connecting to my chakras, from behind. Then he realised the jig was up and actually looked really surprised that I had discovered him and what he really looked like. I realised at this point that he no longer had control over me, though I wasn't scared at all, just really surprised. He looked sort of impressed that I had found him out and mischievous, like a child that was just found out over a prank. He released me almost immediately after that and I found myself back on the surface of the earth and in my body.

He did try to contact me a couple of times after that over the years, but I always sent him away, politely and firmly. He always tried to deceive me with various lies about himself and his agenda. He even tried to explain away his appearance as a result of the ancient Jewish curse on him, which gets repeated and reinforced every year, in the deserts of Israel.

Hi Chris,

I liked your story.
I am sure that sense you have a deep confidence about your experience, you will feel no offense when I respond " I don't believe it was anything universal".

What is universal is the capacity for humans to imagine and make real for ourselves our beliefs.

There is nothing descriptive or pictorial that I will accept as "true" that been crafted by the human mind. I believe all tales to the same extent I accept Corey Goode's testimony. The claim that many make that "their" imagined entities are real is IMO SKIN DEEP... your skin is as thick as they will ever become and as lasting. These are OUR seemingly alien devils and angels.... all for us to meet, and maybe know our imaginal power. That is what I have faith in.

At the same time, when you tell me you were swept off to the underworld, I do know mine. I consciously visit every day to do some cleaning because it is perpetually gunked up with my stray and often a little nasty and even cruel thoughts. I don't feel a bit afraid of the underworld as I know it, There reside all my own "frenimies" patterns.

My experience is that my patterns throw up many varied imaginings and I like putting a face to them as I do the forgiveness ETC. The take away I value is that "I a'int afraid of no (phantasmagoric presentations)."

I do not need to offer proof and I ask none from you but I will decline to argue the validity of ANY visual, auditory or even tangible presentation. We will never meet in the depths of our own psyches. The extraordinary evidence may well be how we behave to others after we return from the underworld. Do we come 'back" freed up now or possesssd (brouhahahaha)

From wiki that has a few quotes

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan. Its roots are much older, however, with the French mathematician Laplace stating that: "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness."[1] Also, David Hume wrote in 1748: "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence", and "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish."[2] and Marcello Truzzi says: "An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."[3]

Either way, the phrase is central to the scientific methodWikipedia's W.svg, and a key issue for critical thinking, rational thought and skepticism everywhere.

The evidence put forth by proponents of such things as gods, ghosts, the paranormal, and UFOs is highly questionable at best and offers little in the way of proof. Even if we accepted what evidence there is as valid (and it is highly debatable if we should), limited and weak evidence is not enough to overcome the extraordinary nature of these claims."

[Chris]

Ok guys, I'm afraid we have a serious situation on our hands. I just spent the last 2 hours battling this entity, trying to make him go away. I think I may have finally succeeded.

After I posted that expose on him, I knew I'd have to pay a heavy price and boy, was I right.

After he visited Dumpster Diver or sent one of his lackeys, I don't know which one, he visited me.

First he gave me a psychic headache, so I knew it was going to be a long evening. Then he started lurking around my consciousness, trying to peek into my thoughts and assess the situation. I felt I had no choice but to go into a meditative state, to see what was going on.

He immediately tried to connect to me. He touched me, in a sort of caressing fashion and I could feel that veil of electromagnetic energy that always descends on me when I connect to any sort of entity, whether benevolent, or in this case, malevolent.

He was only connected to me for about a minute and sent thoughts my way, the same ones he has been trying to deceive me with for years now. I knew immediately that they were all lies and told him he cannot deceive me and I don't believe anything he says. I told him once again, firmly, but politely, that I respect him, but he does not have my permission to access my consciousness in this way and that I don't appreciate his efforts to try and repeatedly mislead and deceive me. You really don't want to disrespect and anger these ancient and powerful entities, believe me.

My Kundalini started activating on its own and gradually built up an incredibly powerful, fiery shield around me. I had to spend about 2 hours in meditation to strengthen and build up this shield. All the while the entity tried to latch on to me repeatedly, but the fiery shield always "bounced" him off in a way. After about 2 hours, he gave up and left. I'm sure one day he will be back again.

I'm utterly exhausted now, so I can't really answer any of your questions or concerns, I hope you understand. This will have to wait for a later date.

Please guys, be ultra careful and for the time being, do not do any research on him, or watch any videos connected to him. I believe it would not be a good idea right now. Thank you for taking this into consideration.

[Chris]

Also, isn't it interesting, that whilst I posted the above warning, it took a really long time to respond and appeared twice, due to some server glitch. I can assure you, I only typed it once. It may be him, or possibly a benevolent entity trying to protect me. I don't know. Just thought it was interesting.

[palooka's revenge]

in posting this I want to make it clear that anything i've written here is in no way intended to counter or invalidate anyone's experience or what anyone else has said in this matter...


His hatred of Jews stems from the fact that Rabbis perform a ceremony each year, where they curse him and transfer all the Sins (Karma) of the Jewish people on to him, by using a sacrificial goat. That is where the term scapegoat comes from. He is that scapegoat. He is also the leader of the biblical group of fallen angels, known as the watchers.

as we all know, various religions regard various objects as sacred. ie, the crucifix or cross throughout most christian disciplines. the jewish skullcap or kippot. and so on. these are often regarded as protection though they may be held in regard toward other functions as well such as a demonstration of homage.

some are used in exorcism. ie, holy water, sacred salt, crucifix, etc.

sin, if u believe in such, supposedly, is right up any evil entity's power ally. so, to me anyway, a ritual intending to transfer the collective, so-called sins of any peoples in the form of a curse upon any evil entity is not only counter intuitive but would be regarded by such entities as like christmas dinner at a gourmet restaurant. such would be exactly what some of them feed on.

having said that, I can square with the possibility that such an entity as this pazuzu/pazaza/azazel character would “present” to abhor such intention followed by action toward them all the while, to them, its empowering them and their anti-life agenda.

don't get me wrong, I'm all in on the idea that there are plenty of anti-life entities around and some precipitate toward earth and her peoples. but it also opens the door to be used by peoples to pass the buck (blame) in lieu of accepting responsibility for our own choices, actions, behaviors, beliefs, imprints, judgements, and/or denials.

did the devil make me write this??

[Emil El Zapato]

Whoever watches the video is going to hear the name spoken, see the session, see the girl begin to freak out, and there's no closure. It's an odd thing to put in such a warning.

I didn't watch it...i won't for sure now... :) I ain't gonna be messin' with no demon...


There is a 1998 movie about this demon, called "Fallen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_%281998_film%29)", starring Denzel Washington, John Goodman, Donald Sutherland, Embeth Davidtz, James Gandolfini and Elias Koteas. It's pretty good, actually. ;)

Seen it...no wonder my life took a downturn about that time...that was the 1st year of my marriage... :)

[Emil El Zapato]

Also, isn't it interesting, that whilst I posted the above warning, it took a really long time to respond and appeared twice, due to some server glitch. I can assure you, I only typed it once. It may be him, or possibly a benevolent entity trying to protect me. I don't know. Just thought it was interesting.

yeah, that happens...a while back I went a week or two on another site that double and triple posted every communication I made...as usual, I figured I was losing my mind... :)


in posting this I want to make it clear that anything i've written here is in no way intended to counter or invalidate anyone's experience or what anyone else has said in this matter...



as we all know, various religions regard various objects as sacred. ie, the crucifix or cross throughout most christian disciplines. the jewish skullcap or kippot. and so on. these are often regarded as protection though they may be held in regard toward other functions as well such as a demonstration of homage.

some are used in exorcism. ie, holy water, sacred salt, crucifix, etc.

sin, if u believe in such, supposedly, is right up any evil entity's power ally. so, to me anyway, a ritual intending to transfer the collective, so-called sins of any peoples in the form of a curse upon any evil entity is not only counter intuitive but would be regarded by such entities as like christmas dinner at a gourmet restaurant. such would be exactly what some of them feed on.

having said that, I can square with the possibility that such an entity as this pazuzu/pazaza/azazel character would “present” to abhor such intention followed by action toward them all the while, to them, its empowering them and their anti-life agenda.

don't get me wrong, I'm all in on the idea that there are plenty of anti-life entities around and some precipitate toward earth and her peoples. but it also opens the door to be used by peoples to pass the buck (blame) in lieu of accepting responsibility for our own choices, actions, behaviors, beliefs, imprints, judgements, and/or denials.

did the devil make me write this??

very good point...to go or not go evil is very much within the bailiwick of humanity's will. No one has to go dark unless they choose so.

[Chris]

So, he has been around for at least 12,000 years, and probably about 25,000 years before that. I wonder if he will be cleared out in this next event?


I believe he is much older than that. Possibly millions of years old, but who knows.

These beings do not have a natural end to their lifespan, though they can be killed through non-natural means I believe.

From what I was told, time passes differently as you move closer to the earth's core. There is a dimensional shift of sorts that takes place. It is possible that millions of years will pass down there, when it is only thousands for us on the surface.

Again, just reporting what I was told, cannot vouch for the accuracy of any of this info.


As for the coming density shift event, I believe their deep underground location protects them somehow, so I doubt any of these underworld beings will be going anywhere. Btw, not all of them are malevolent, there are a lot of different and diverse civilisations down there. You can read all about them in various ancient texts, but especially the Vedas and Puranas. There are also Sumerian and Egyptian descriptions, though they're quite fragmented and difficult to decipher.

[Aragorn]

From what I was told, time passes differently as you move closer to the earth's core. There is a dimensional shift of sorts that takes place. It is possible that millions of years will pass down there, when it is only thousands for us on the surface.

That's quite extreme. ;) In reality, there is indeed a very minute difference in the way one experiences time, albeit that it's not all as esoteric as any kind of dimensional shift.

It's simply down to general relativity. The closer you get to the center of the Earth, the more gravity you experience, and thus, the slower time will pass for you — or from your own perspective, the faster time seems to pass for everyone at the surface of Earth's crust. But it's only going to be a difference in the nanosecond range, though. ;)

[Shadowself]

That's quite extreme. ;) In reality, there is indeed a very minute difference in the way one experiences time, albeit that it's not all as esoteric as any kind of dimensional shift.

It's simply down to general relativity. The closer you get to the center of the Earth, the more gravity you experience, and thus, the slower time will pass for you — or from your own perspective, the faster time seems to pass for everyone at the surface of Earth's crust. But it's only going to be a difference in the nanosecond range, though. ;)

Yep...Time Dilation. Something I recall doing a whole lot of work on if you will recall to discuss the theory of Time travel, 6 degrees of separation and chaos theory.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdRmCqylsME

[Aragorn]

From what I was told, time passes differently as you move closer to the earth's core. There is a dimensional shift of sorts that takes place. It is possible that millions of years will pass down there, when it is only thousands for us on the surface.

That's quite extreme. ;) In reality, there is indeed a very minute difference in the way one experiences time, albeit that it's not all as esoteric as any kind of dimensional shift.

It's simply down to general relativity. The closer you get to the center of the Earth, the more gravity you experience, and thus, the slower time will pass for you — or from your own perspective, the faster time seems to pass for everyone at the surface of Earth's crust. But it's only going to be a difference in the nanosecond range, though. ;)

Yep...Time Dilation. Something I recall doing a whole lot of work on if you will recall to discuss the theory of Time travel, 6 degrees of separation and chaos theory.

There are several factors influencing the time dilation between different frames of reference. Speed and acceleration are both covered by special relativity, and gravity is covered by general relativity.

On account of the latter, there's also an additional interesting effect called frame-dragging. This is a distortion of spacetime all around Earth as a result of Earth's rotation around its own (geological) North-South axis. This too has already empirically been proven correct, but the frame-dragging effect will be much larger even when measured around a significantly heavier object such as a gas giant, or even bigger, the sun at the heart of our solar system — not to mention a black hole or even the super-massive black hole at the center of the galaxy. ;)

Nothing has absolute coordinates in either space or time — not even the United States of God Bless America™. :p :ttr:

[Aianawa]

In both places ( UK n USA ) it was still the here or the there, so no time was actually here, both there and here imo.

ps Why would measuring the now, which imo they are unknowingly doing, need proof ?.

[Chris]

Hi Chris,

I liked your story.
I am sure that sense you have a deep confidence about your experience, you will feel no offense when I respond " I don't believe it was anything universal".

What is universal is the capacity for humans to imagine and make real for ourselves our beliefs.

There is nothing descriptive or pictorial that I will accept as "true" that been crafted by the human mind. I believe all tales to the same extent I accept Corey Goode's testimony. The claim that many make that "their" imagined entities are real is IMO SKIN DEEP... your skin is as thick as they will ever become and as lasting. These are OUR seemingly alien devils and angels.... all for us to meet, and maybe know our imaginal power. That is what I have faith in.

At the same time, when you tell me you were swept off to the underworld, I do know mine. I consciously visit every day to do some cleaning because it is perpetually gunked up with my stray and often a little nasty and even cruel thoughts. I don't feel a bit afraid of the underworld as I know it, There reside all my own "frenimies" patterns.

My experience is that my patterns throw up many varied imaginings and I like putting a face to them as I do the forgiveness ETC. The take away I value is that "I a'int afraid of no (phantasmagoric presentations)."

I do not need to offer proof and I ask none from you but I will decline to argue the validity of ANY visual, auditory or even tangible presentation. We will never meet in the depths of our own psyches. The extraordinary evidence may well be how we behave to others after we return from the underworld. Do we come 'back" freed up now or possesssd (brouhahahaha)

From wiki that has a few quotes

I wanted to address some of Maggie's concerns here, which I think are fully valid.

All experience and perception is subjective. We can never be sure that what we perceive is also perceived by others, especially in exactly the same way. How do I know that you see the colour blue the same way I do? You probably don't.

Scientists, or rather empiricists are obsessed with empirical evidence of the physical kind. That is perhaps commendable under most circumstances, but the facts are that we have dozens of different senses, some of which are yet to be discovered by science. If you limit yourself to only those perceptions that are accepted as scientific, which is essentially, the eye, the ears and their extensions in the form of scientific instruments, you are necessarily going to have a very narrow and constrained view of the world around you.

What I am saying is that we have some senses that are not recognised by science, but are nevertheless very real. The heart is one of them, but so is the third eye. David Wilcock has written extensively about how the pineal gland can see things that are not part of our everyday reality, I think it is not really debatable that this sensory organ is real, even if science stubbornly denies its reality. A new sense has recently been discovered, which proves that we can sense electromagnetic fields and use it for navigation for instance.

This means that finding empirical evidence for some sensory phenomena may never actually be possible, since there will always be some that fall outside the current understanding of science. Nevertheless, ignoring sensory perceptions that seem just as real as seeing or hearing from our subjective point of view, seems entirely irrational to me.

I am not claiming that anything I have experienced is empirically provable, it probably isn't. I'm not sure how you would prove experiences that are essentially non-physical and occur outside the scope of the five senses. However, particularly in the case of demonic possession, the Vatican actually has extensive documentation and proof that the phenomenon is very real and we have thousands of cases. Many books have been written on the subject, often by scientific or medical experts. The same can be said about some other phenomena, such as UFOs. We may not have a scientific explanation for what these are, but it is hardly up for debate that UFOs themselves are real. There is extensive documentation from reliable witnesses and experts.

Your comparisons to Corey Goode are interesting, as I do find some of his testimony credible, especially what he reports about the Honeycomb Earth and SSP bases on the Mars and Moon. I realise this is entirely subjective, but I have seen very similar things through astral projection.

What I personally do to verify whether something I have perceived was genuine or not is that I check it against both ancient and modern record. If ancient records and modern testimony matches up with what I have personally perceived or heard from channelled beings, I treat it as probably genuine. If information comes in that discredits said perceptions, I will adjust my views accordingly.

[Shadowself]

Hi Chris,

I liked your story.
I am sure that sense you have a deep confidence about your experience, you will feel no offense when I respond " I don't believe it was anything universal".

What is universal is the capacity for humans to imagine and make real for ourselves our beliefs.

There is nothing descriptive or pictorial that I will accept as "true" that been crafted by the human mind. I believe all tales to the same extent I accept Corey Goode's testimony. The claim that many make that "their" imagined entities are real is IMO SKIN DEEP... your skin is as thick as they will ever become and as lasting. These are OUR seemingly alien devils and angels.... all for us to meet, and maybe know our imaginal power. That is what I have faith in.

At the same time, when you tell me you were swept off to the underworld, I do know mine. I consciously visit every day to do some cleaning because it is perpetually gunked up with my stray and often a little nasty and even cruel thoughts. I don't feel a bit afraid of the underworld as I know it, There reside all my own "frenimies" patterns.

My experience is that my patterns throw up many varied imaginings and I like putting a face to them as I do the forgiveness ETC. The take away I value is that "I a'int afraid of no (phantasmagoric presentations)."

I do not need to offer proof and I ask none from you but I will decline to argue the validity of ANY visual, auditory or even tangible presentation. We will never meet in the depths of our own psyches. The extraordinary evidence may well be how we behave to others after we return from the underworld. Do we come 'back" freed up now or possesssd (brouhahahaha)

From wiki that has a few quotes


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" was a phrase made popular by Carl Sagan. Its roots are much older, however, with the French mathematician Laplace stating that: "The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness."[1] Also, David Hume wrote in 1748: "A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence", and "No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavors to establish."[2] and Marcello Truzzi says: "An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."[3]

Either way, the phrase is central to the scientific methodWikipedia's W.svg, and a key issue for critical thinking, rational thought and skepticism everywhere.

The evidence put forth by proponents of such things as gods, ghosts, the paranormal, and UFOs is highly questionable at best and offers little in the way of proof. Even if we accepted what evidence there is as valid (and it is highly debatable if we should), limited and weak evidence is not enough to overcome the extraordinary nature of these claims."




HA! I just saw this post...and I could not agree more. What's more...

Now I know why I saw gorillas in my dream this morning!

https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/7186-6-Degrees-of-Separation-Order-from-Chaos?p=841997807&viewfull=1#post841997807


It sort of goes along with this post...good perception Maggie! I Agree. And you gotta watch this video to understand the gorilla reference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_xRb0x9aw

[Maggie]

And you gotta watch this video to understand the gorilla reference.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_xRb0x9aw

I happened to see this on Chris PA thread. This gentleman is a wayshower. He mentions cleaning the system because when he used LSD in sessions to reach beyond layers of conditioning, he needed to be very purified. IMO when we call in anything we do, it is all meant for our learning. If we don't clean up our act in 3D, why would we expect any other "level" of reality to be more clarified?

Really interesting map laid out here....
I don't think we have to use LSD or any entheogen to "get there".
However, those of us who feel drawn will be using some metaphor to awaken.
The inference of the interview is that "humanity" as a collective is on an adventure of intimacy with creative intelligence and causal reality.
IMO the urge to awaken will bring plenty of everything (and gorillas).

yewNM9smrqo

[Chris]

in posting this I want to make it clear that anything i've written here is in no way intended to counter or invalidate anyone's experience or what anyone else has said in this matter...



as we all know, various religions regard various objects as sacred. ie, the crucifix or cross throughout most christian disciplines. the jewish skullcap or kippot. and so on. these are often regarded as protection though they may be held in regard toward other functions as well such as a demonstration of homage.

some are used in exorcism. ie, holy water, sacred salt, crucifix, etc.

sin, if u believe in such, supposedly, is right up any evil entity's power ally. so, to me anyway, a ritual intending to transfer the collective, so-called sins of any peoples in the form of a curse upon any evil entity is not only counter intuitive but would be regarded by such entities as like christmas dinner at a gourmet restaurant. such would be exactly what some of them feed on.

having said that, I can square with the possibility that such an entity as this pazuzu/pazaza/azazel character would “present” to abhor such intention followed by action toward them all the while, to them, its empowering them and their anti-life agenda.

don't get me wrong, I'm all in on the idea that there are plenty of anti-life entities around and some precipitate toward earth and her peoples. but it also opens the door to be used by peoples to pass the buck (blame) in lieu of accepting responsibility for our own choices, actions, behaviors, beliefs, imprints, judgements, and/or denials.

did the devil make me write this??

I think I may have conveyed the impression, perhaps unfairly, that entities such as the one we're discussing here are all evil. That is really not the case at all. They are capable of great kindness and benevolence with their in-group, including with humans that sign up to their cause. You can read many reports about this online.

There are also those that consider said entity and the watchers the good guys and the Biblical God as the evil one, who seeks to suppress humanity, whereas the watchers are the ones that try to lift humanity up and save them from enslavement. I believe many people over at PA are of this view.

I approached both groups with an open-mind and as a non-Christian. My conclusion has been that the biblical view is largely correct and the forces of Heaven really are the good guys and the forces of the Underworld are if not entirely malevolent, certainly self-serving, deceptive and with an entire hidden agenda. I must add the caveat that there are benevolent groups in the Underworld as well, at least according to ancient Vedic and even some modern accounts.

I really didn't intend for people to go into Horror movie mode and see any of these entities as purely malevolent. There is no such thing I believe and every type of life form has redeeming features and justifications for what they're doing and how they live their lives.

To a Zebra all Lions are evil, but from Nature's point of view, Lions are necessary to keep Nature in balance. I suspect there is a universal need for such entities to exist and I really don't want to be the arbiter of which side is good and which side is bad.

Regarding the ritual I mentioned earlier, this is a real thing and you can read about it on said entity's wikipedia page and many other sources online. It really is being performed in Israel even in modern times.

As for the Devil, who knows what that word even means. Some think it comes from the Sanskrit word Deva or Devi, so it's basically just a Christian term for any pagan god. There are quite a few Christian writers who consider Hindu and other pagan gods Demons, with no exception, so we should certainly be careful about coming to any definite conclusions on this issue.

Like I said before, I'm not a Christian, so I watch this battle regarding who is benevolent and who's not with interest, but with an impartial view. I am mostly interested in pre-Christian deities and religions and I never had much patience for the Monotheistic religions.

The entities I used to channel certainly changed some of my views on the subject and I have come much closer to the Biblical world view than I would have been comfortable with even a few months ago. That came as a great surprise and shock to me. It seems to me that Heaven is real and the entities that inhabit it really have our best interests at heart.

[palooka's revenge]

I think I may have conveyed the impression, perhaps unfairly, that entities such as the one we're discussing here are all evil. That is really not the case at all. They are capable of great kindness and benevolence with their in-group, including with humans that sign up to their cause. You can read many reports about this online.


Not at all. I thought u made that very clear.


There are also those that consider said entity and the watchers the good guys and the Biblical God as the evil one, who seeks to suppress humanity, whereas the watchers are the ones that try to lift humanity up and save them from enslavement. I believe many people over at PA are of this view.

Kinda reminds me of national politics these days here in the not-so-united-anymore states of america...



I approached both groups with an open-mind and as a non-Christian. My conclusion has been that the biblical view is largely correct and the forces of Heaven really are the good guys and the forces of the Underworld are if not entirely malevolent, certainly self-serving, deceptive and with an entire hidden agenda. I must add the caveat that there are benevolent groups in the Underworld as well, at least according to ancient Vedic and even some modern accounts.

I really didn't intend for people to go into Horror movie mode and see any of these entities as purely malevolent. There is no such thing I believe and every type of life form has redeeming features and justifications for what they're doing and how they live their lives.

I'm confused now. I'm reading u say u don't “see any of these entities as purely malevolent” yet in the previous para I read u to say “.... the forces of the Underworld are if not entirely malevolent, certainly self-serving, deceptive and with an entire hidden agenda.”

For me, the jury is in and the verdict is guilty. Iow, ask me if there are totally evil entities and my answer is absolutely. And any demonstration by them that might appear as good is a form of deception.

However, I personally prefer to refer to life and anti-life instead of good and evil.


To a Zebra all Lions are evil, but from Nature's point of view, Lions are necessary to keep Nature in balance.

Thats the view of 99.9999%. I come from the other .0001% that sees that as a very warped interpretation of balance!



I suspect there is a universal need for such entities to exist and I really don't want to be the arbiter of which side is good and which side is bad.

We all get to be our own arbiter and make our choices accordingly.


Regarding the ritual I mentioned earlier, this is a real thing and you can read about it on said entity's wikipedia page and many other sources online. It really is being performed in Israel even in modern times.

I don't doubt that a bit. Damn scary though!!


As for the Devil, who knows what that word even means. Some think it comes from the Sanskrit word Deva or Devi, so it's basically just a Christian term for any pagan god. There are quite a few Christian writers who consider Hindu and other pagan gods Demons, with no exception, so we should certainly be careful about coming to any definite conclusions on this issue.*

I personally reject the idea of being careful based on what christian writers have had to say on this matter! Fortunately universe is a whole lot bigger and broader than any christian pov.


Like I said before, I'm not a Christian, so I watch this battle regarding who is benevolent and who's not with interest, but with an impartial view. I am mostly interested in pre-Christian deities and religions and I never had much patience for the Monotheistic religions.

I'm all in on the single source idea. Iow, a ONE, albeit a BIPOLAR ONE. Which just so happens to blow fuses on a whole lotta folks. That alone tells me I'm prolly on to somethin'...

In context of a ONE, position relative at original emergence experience had a whole lot to do with how differentiated essence was imprinted which then had a whole lot to do with predispositions going forward into incarnation followed by, in many instances, reincarnation.


The entities I used to channel certainly changed some of my views on the subject and I have come much closer to the Biblical world view than I would have been comfortable with even a few months ago. That came as a great surprise and shock to me. It seems to me that Heaven is real and the entities that inhabit it really have our best interests at heart.

Thank you for your response Chris and sharing your stories with us here on TOT. I'm looking forward to more with much interest and, in particular, what specific sources u rely on for both ancient (ie, Vedic) and modern research.

[Emil El Zapato]

Religious philosophy can be viewed as a 'model' of spirituality. 100's if not 1000's of years of philosophical contemplation can produce impressive results. The only limitations are the imagination and human perception. I suspect that there is some validation in finding a balance point between imagination and reason.

[Chris]

I'm all in on the single source idea. Iow, a ONE, albeit a BIPOLAR ONE. Which just so happens to blow fuses on a whole lotta folks. That alone tells me I'm prolly on to somethin'...

In context of a ONE, position relative at original emergence experience had a whole lot to do with how differentiated essence was imprinted which then had a whole lot to do with predispositions going forward into incarnation followed by, in many instances, reincarnation.


I am a great believer in duality, so we probably agree here. I don’t think creation itself is possible without polar opposites. That is also the information I was given through channelling. The One divided itself into opposites first, essentially male and female, but all other opposites followed from that, such as light and dark, good and evil, etc.

My whole point is that no lifeform can be purely good or evil, they have to be a combination of the two. Even Hitler loved animals and children, music and art. And, he was a vegetarian too. So, nobody’s just one thing.

It is the same thing with what we perceive as malevolent entities. Ultimately they also are reflections of the One Self and are not irredeemable. When creation ends, they will also return to the One Source, just like everyone else. The Creator has given them specific roles which they must play and no play is much fun without villains that are ultimately defeated.

The Hindus write about this extensively, particularly in the Mahabharata and Ramayana. The villains of these ancient epics are presented as very important to the overall story of life. They give the divine an opportunity to manifest in the lower material world and deal with them. That’s what Avatars, like Krishna or Rama are for.


„Thank you for your response Chris and sharing your stories with us here on TOT. I'm looking forward to more with much interest and, in particular, what specific sources u rely on for both ancient (ie, Vedic) and modern research.”


You’re welcome. As for ancient sources, they’re the same for everyone. There are now decent translations of the Sumerian clay tablets, unlike the hack job that some famous people did with it in the past. The Gilgamesh and Enuma Elish in particular are very instructive, but these days you can just read the wikipedia summaries of all ancient stories and myths, which is an imperfect solution, but better than nothing.

As for Vedic Myths and stories, entire libraries are filled with them, but the major ones have plenty of stories about gods, demons and various magical beings.The Mahabharata, Ramayana and the various Puranas (ancient stories) are the best sources. There are also some stories from Hungarian mythology that take place in the Underworld. My favourite one as a child was Son-Of-The-White-Horse, which has been made into a highly trippy and psychedelic animated movie. I will post the link to it here if I can find it.

[palooka's revenge]

You’re welcome. As for ancient sources, they’re the same for everyone. There are now decent translations of the Sumerian clay tablets, unlike the hack job that some famous people did with it in the past. The Gilgamesh and Enuma Elish in particular are very instructive, but these days you can just read the wikipedia summaries of all ancient stories and myths, which is an imperfect solution, but better than nothing.

As for Vedic Myths and stories, entire libraries are filled with them, but the major ones have plenty of stories about gods, demons and various magical beings.The Mahabharata, Ramayana and the various Puranas (ancient stories) are the best sources. There are also some stories from Hungarian mythology that take place in the Underworld. My favourite one as a child was Son-Of-The-White-Horse, which has been made into a highly trippy and psychedelic animated movie. I will post the link to it here if I can find it.

thx, i can take it from there. i was just hoping for some specific links...

[Chris]

thx, i can take it from there. i was just hoping for some specific links...

Well, here's one I would recommend watching. There is hardly any dialogue on it, but you can switch on English subtitles in the settings menu. It is mostly a psychedelic trip into ancient myth, the story was my favourite one growing up, but the symbology comes from all over the Eurasian steppe. I think it is pretty powerful and worth a watch. As for Vedic literature, I read most of it in book format, but most of them should be available for free on the internet. Sumerian Myths are a bit harder to come by, I read most of them in rare scholarly volumes when I lived in London. They were mostly available in places like the British Museum bookstore and a couple of bookstores nearby.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwzqtF2W6RQ

[palooka's revenge]

I am a great believer in duality, so we probably agree here. I don’t think creation itself is possible without polar opposites.

here's how i read it...

male / female
=
father / mother
=
spirit / will
=
electro / magnetism
=
positive / negative
=
light / darkness
=
thought forms / feelings
=
inspiration / intuition

[Chris]

here's how i read it...

male / female
=
father / mother
=
spirit / will
=
electro / magnetism
=
positive / negative
=
light / darkness
=
thought forms / feelings
=
inspiration / intuition

Yes, that is a very good way of putting it. I received very similar channelled information about the nature of reality and how it was created. All these opposites are what make reality manifest. The point of enlightenment / moksha / awakening, etc… is to reunite these polar opposites, but particularly the male and female polarity of the divine.

In Tantra, God the creator manifests creation through his female essence, Shakti (Holy Spirit). Reuniting the creative female essence with the male source creator in the crown of the head is the entire aim of Tantra and Yoga. When duality becomes the One again, we return to source, the creator and become One with him again.

[palooka's revenge]

Yes, that is a very good way of putting it. I received very similar channelled information about the nature of reality and how it was created.

the way I see it, that's another way of saying the source polarities are gaped from one another. which begs several questions in my mind, the first of which is... how and why did this happen and what has to happen to reunite the father of everything with the mother of everything in the godhead??

and the next question? .... could it be that this gap is the original causality that has been and continues to be re-enacted by all of we, the manifested spirits?

our world shows us a continuously escalating collective heartlessness as well as an escalating loss of collective consciousness. To put that another way, there should be little question that the fucked-up-ed-ness being reflected back to us on this planet continues to escalate and is fast approaching a point that will no longer sustain life itself. Iow, the balance point has been gone so far past that life itself is under full attack.

[Aragorn]

the way I see it, that's another way of saying the source polarities are gaped from one another. which begs several questions in my mind, the first of which is... how and why did this happen and what has to happen to reunite the father of everything with the mother of everything in the godhead??

If you don't mind, then I believe I have explained that in this post (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12404-Kundalini-Awakening-Chakras-Enlightenment-Heaven-and-related-matters?p=841997645&viewfull=1#post841997645). ;) But what I find strange is that nobody has brought up yet that all of these dichotomies are defined by the ancient Yin/Yang duality. ;)



https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https:%2F%2Fstatic.vecteezy.com%2Fs ystem%2Fresources%2Fpreviews%2F000%2F042%2F491%2Fn on_2x%2Fyin-yang-vector.jpg&sp=ee0fb94771aa4a42b4f2d5407f427c62



and the next question? .... could it be that this gap is the original causality that has been and continues to be re-enacted by all of we, the manifested spirits?

Yes, because Yin and Yang are constantly in motion, chasing each other around and never catching each other. This dynamic is required in order for Source to be able to understand the infinite information and potential that it is made up of. ;)


our world shows us a continuously escalating collective heartlessness as well as an escalating loss of collective consciousness. To put that another way, there should be little question that the fucked-up-ed-ness being reflected back to us on this planet continues to escalate and is fast approaching a point that will no longer sustain life itself. Iow, the balance point has been gone so far past that life itself is under full attack.

I agree, and I've already said it many times before, i.e. if mankind ends up destroying itself, then it's only because they deserve that. So long as there is any hope that things might evolve for the better, then the destruction will be averted.

On the other hand, given the evidence that there have already been several human civilizations on Earth before the one we're part of, it may very well be that this civilization here, too, will come to perish at its own hands, and that several hundreds of thousands — if not millions — of years from now, a new human civilization will emerge. And then maybe that's the one that's going to make it to the stars in the end.

Or not. Old Hobbitses habits die hard. :p

[palooka's revenge]

If you don't mind, then I believe I have explained that in this post (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12404-Kundalini-Awakening-Chakras-Enlightenment-Heaven-and-related-matters?p=841997645&viewfull=1#post841997645). ;) But what I find strange is that nobody has brought up yet that all of these dichotomies are defined by the ancient Yin/Yang duality. ;)


yes, i read that. some of it i agree with. other parts, not so much. as u will see below. very well presented. to be honest, that's why i didn't respond. cuz yer so darn smart, u scare me! :hiding:



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yup, i meant to include yang n yin in that model on #64, above. brain farts rule at my age!! :headspin::headspin:

in fact, that's what i've been saying without using those specific words. i hope!



Yes, because Yin and Yang are constantly in motion, chasing each other around and never catching each other. This dynamic is required in order for Source to be able to understand the infinite information and potential that it is made up of. ;)

constant motion? yup

seeking understanding? absolutely. the great I AM seeking to understand itself.

seeking potential? certainly. that's what true evolution is all about, yes?

never catching up with each other? here's where the bear gets in the buckwheat. let me refer back to my model and while i'm at it, add yin/yang...

male / female
=
father / mother
=
spirit / will
=
electro / magnetism
=
positive / negative
=
yang / yin

i understand u may disagree with that in whole or in part. for me, i need something that makes sense that connects source or, as u named it, prime creator, with the dynamics of physics. cuz we're talkin' energy dynamics here, yes? and i know u know a whole hell of a lot more about physics (and probably most anything and everything else) than i do from reading u here on this forum. u amaze me my friend. i bow in awe and:tiphat:.

but in my mind and heart, EM does that, makes that connection, in a way nothing else can. feels right too. a simple solution for a simple mind. mine!!

iow, to me that's elementary and solves a whole lotta so-called mysteries in one fell swoop. not to mention a whole bunch of f*@^ed up notions involving gardens 'n serpents 'n apples 'n et's 'n a rathful, pissed off creator who's, at the same time, sposed to be all lovey dovey.

but it gets damned complicated in a cosmic heartbeat from there!! i've played with magnets and i know they either repel or attract. this is why, with all due respect, i can't buy into the idea that these polarities of a ONE are constantly chasing each other around but never catching each other. in fact, i'm going to go so far as to say physical manifestation could never happen if they never did.

let me put that last sentence another way and in the form of a question... would u 'n i be having this conversation if the prime creators -- that are our (and everyone's) original mom 'n pop -- never caught up with each other?

OH MY!! have i just opened a big fat can of worms with that question?? cuz now we're talkin' 'bout SEX, yes?? :chrs::hugs:

as above, so below. conversely, as below, so above!

or was it just :magic: magic??? ;)

[Aragorn]

yes, i read that. some of it i agree with. other parts, not so much. as u will see below. very well presented. to be honest, that's why i didn't respond. cuz yer so darn smart, u scare me! :hiding:



https://images.baxterboo.com/global/images/products/large/friendly-boo-ghost-dog-shirt-orange-4919.jpg


:ha: :hilarious:


constant motion? yup

seeking understanding? absolutely. the great I AM seeking to understand itself.

seeking potential? certainly. that's what true evolution is all about, yes?

never catching up with each other? here's where the bear gets in the buckwheat. let me refer back to my model and while i'm at it, add yin/yang...

male / female
=
father / mother
=
spirit / will
=
electro / magnetism
=
positive / negative
=
yang / yin

i understand u may disagree with that in whole or in part. for me, i need something that makes sense that connects source or, as u named it, prime creator, with the dynamics of physics. cuz we're talkin' energy dynamics here, yes? and i know u know a whole hell of a lot more about physics (and probably most anything and everything else) than i do from reading u here on this forum. u amaze me my friend. i bow in awe and:tiphat:.

but in my mind and heart, EM does that, makes that connection, in a way nothing else can. feels right too. a simple solution for a simple mind. mine!!

iow, to me that's elementary and solves a whole lotta so-called mysteries in one fell swoop. not to mention a whole bunch of f*@^ed up notions involving gardens 'n serpents 'n apples 'n et's 'n a rathful, pissed off creator who's, at the same time, sposed to be all lovey dovey.

but it gets damned complicated in a cosmic heartbeat from there!! i've played with magnets and i know they either repel or attract. this is why, with all due respect, i can't buy into the idea that these polarities of a ONE are constantly chasing each other around but never catching each other. in fact, i'm going to go so far as to say physical manifestation could never happen if they never did.

let me put that last sentence another way and in the form of a question... would u 'n i be having this conversation if the prime creators -- that are our (and everyone's) original mom 'n pop -- never caught up with each other?

Well, I think you're misinterpreting my statement that they never catch each other. They do catch up with one another, of course. But they will never merge back into the undefined soup of a quantum superstate, where "everything is possible, but nothing exists."

So long as Yin and Yang exist as individual polarities, they will continue chasing each other around in a perpetual dance of attraction. It's their very reason for being. ;)

[Chris]

https://images.baxterboo.com/global/images/products/large/friendly-boo-ghost-dog-shirt-orange-4919.jpg


:ha: :hilarious:



Well, I think you're misinterpreting my statement that they never catch each other. They do catch up with one another, of course. But they will never merge back into the undefined soup of a quantum superstate, where "everything is possible, but nothing exists."

So long as Yin and Yang exist as individual polarities, they will continue chasing each other around in a perpetual dance of attraction. It's their very reason for being. ;)

Just one remark here. The very essence of Eastern philosophy, but particularly Tantra and Yoga, is the re-uniting of these opposing essences. It is symbolised as the goddess, Shakti, reuniting with God, Shiva. It is a bit like matter and anti-matter cancelling each other out and resulting in a huge burst of photonic energy. Matter is annihilated, but pure energy in the form of light, is created instead. This is what happens when the female Kundalini Shakti, Yang, rises to the Crown Chakra and reunites with Yin, the male creative force. It results in a massive burst of energy in the form of light, that is photons, which is why we call it enlightenment.

[Aragorn]

Well, I think you're misinterpreting my statement that they never catch each other. They do catch up with one another, of course. But they will never merge back into the undefined soup of a quantum superstate, where "everything is possible, but nothing exists."

So long as Yin and Yang exist as individual polarities, they will continue chasing each other around in a perpetual dance of attraction. It's their very reason for being. ;)

Just one remark here. The very essence of Eastern philosophy, but particularly Tantra and Yoga, is the re-uniting of these opposing essences. It is symbolised as the goddess, Shakti, reuniting with God, Shiva. It is a bit like matter and anti-matter cancelling each other out and resulting in a huge burst of photonic energy. Matter is annihilated, but pure energy in the form of light, is created instead. This is what happens when the female Kundalini Shakti, Yang, rises to the Crown Chakra and reunites with Yin, the male creative force. It results in a massive burst of energy in the form of light, that is photons, which is why we call it enlightenment.

Just as that it is always those people who seek power that are also always the very people who least deserve it, those who seek enlightenment are generally also the very people least eligible to find it. After all, they are seeking enlightenment out of a desire to "know the mind of God", so to speak, and such a desire can only come from an ambitious ego.

Enlightenment is not found. Enlightenment presents itself to you in bits and pieces, and at the right time. Wisdom then comes from paying attention and learning from the lessons as they present themselves. Furthermore, there is also that saying, "If you meet the Buddha on your path, kill him" — remember? ;)

Dichotomies and dualities exist because they are required by Source's desire to understand itself. It is a common misunderstanding within the so-called alternative community and among the seekers of enlightenment that duality would be a bad thing, and/or that duality only exists here in this "3D" reality. The very fact that Source seeks to understand itself and thus create order out of chaos — which is the first duality — and that it as such also became both the Creator and Creation at the same time, proves the necessity of Yin/Yang duality. ;)

[Chris]

„Just as that it is always those people who seek power that are also always the very people who least deserve it, those who seek enlightenment are generally also the very people least eligible to find it. After all, they are seeking enlightenment out of a desire to "know the mind of God", so to speak, and such a desire can only come from an ambitious ego.”


You’re probably right there. I don’t know if you have seen the Roman Polanski movie, the 9th gate, but it is about this very subject. In fact there is a supernatural character in it, a blonde woman, who is not unlike „my” Inanna. Roman Polanski is a satanist, so he made the movie from that perspective, but the observation still stands. Those that seek enlightenment / liberation are unlikely to succeed. It is the seemingly undeserving that has the best chance of success. My own theory is that this has a lot to do with divine grace.


„Enlightenment is not found. Enlightenment presents itself to you in bits and pieces, and at the right time. Wisdom then comes from paying attention and learning from the lessons as they present themselves. Furthermore, there is also that saying, "If you meet the Buddha on your path, kill him" — remember? ”


That sounds like true wisdom to me.


„Dichotomies and dualities exist because they are required by Source's desire to understand itself. It is a common misunderstanding within the so-called alternative community and among the seekers of enlightenment that duality would be a bad thing, and/or that duality only exists here in this "3D" reality. The very fact that Source seeks to understand itself and thus create order out of chaos — which is the first duality — and that it as such also became both the Creator and Creation at the same time, proves the necessity of Yin/Yang duality. „


Agreed. Without duality there would be literally nothing. In order for the Absolute (Brahman) to become manifest, duality is required. When duality ceases, as in my earlier example of a matter-antimatter annihilation, what has been manifest reality before, becomes unmanifest. It is still there in its potentiality, but not as an actual manifestation.

[Aragorn]

I don’t know if you have seen the Roman Polanski movie, the 9th gate, but it is about this very subject.

I've seen it twice. ;)


In fact there is a supernatural character in it, a blonde woman, who is not unlike „my” Inanna.

Yep, a nameless character, referred to only as "The Girl" in the end credits, and played by Emanuelle Seigner. She plays a fallen angel of some sorts, even though this is not explicitly stated. But at one point, she glides down from a high wall instead of using the stairs.



Dichotomies and dualities exist because they are required by Source's desire to understand itself. It is a common misunderstanding within the so-called alternative community and among the seekers of enlightenment that duality would be a bad thing, and/or that duality only exists here in this "3D" reality. The very fact that Source seeks to understand itself and thus create order out of chaos — which is the first duality — and that it as such also became both the Creator and Creation at the same time, proves the necessity of Yin/Yang duality.

Agreed. Without duality there would be literally nothing. In order for the Absolute (Brahman) to become manifest, duality is required. When duality ceases, as in my earlier example of a matter-antimatter annihilation, what has been manifest reality before, becomes unmanifest. It is still there in its potentiality, but not as an actual manifestation.

Exactly. It would merely be a return to the meaninglessness of the quantum singularity in its superstate.

[Chris]

I've seen it twice. ;)

Yep, a nameless character, referred to only as "The Girl" in the end credits, and played by Emanuelle Seigner. She plays a fallen angel of some sorts, even though this is not explicitly stated. But at one point, she glides down from a high wall instead of using the stairs.



I don’t know if you were aware, but the latest Wonder Woman movie was based largely on Inanna’s character. They even changed the star on her forehead to the 8-pointed star, the star of Venus or Ishtar. The mythical Inanna-Ishtar had the power of flight and could incinerate her enemies with her sight. She once showed me a vision of herself in battle, flying around and incinerating people with her eyes. She showed herself as a blonde woman, but she looked much like Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer, except much taller.

She watched that movie with me and she was very pleased with it. I am of course fully aware that this may have been a deception, just mentioning it as a curiosity.

[Emil El Zapato]

Just as that it is always those people who seek power that are also always the very people who least deserve it, those who seek enlightenment are generally also the very people least eligible to find it. After all, they are seeking enlightenment out of a desire to "know the mind of God", so to speak, and such a desire can only come from an ambitious ego.

Enlightenment is not found. Enlightenment presents itself to you in bits and pieces, and at the right time. Wisdom then comes from paying attention and learning from the lessons as they present themselves. Furthermore, there is also that saying, "If you meet the Buddha on your path, kill him" — remember? ;)

Dichotomies and dualities exist because they are required by Source's desire to understand itself. It is a common misunderstanding within the so-called alternative community and among the seekers of enlightenment that duality would be a bad thing, and/or that duality only exists here in this "3D" reality. The very fact that Source seeks to understand itself and thus create order out of chaos — which is the first duality — and that it as such also became both the Creator and Creation at the same time, proves the necessity of Yin/Yang duality. ;)

either that or source grew tired of being disorganized...I can appreciate that...

[Emil El Zapato]

I've seen it twice. ;)



Yep, a nameless character, referred to only as "The Girl" in the end credits, and played by Emanuelle Seigner. She plays a fallen angel of some sorts, even though this is not explicitly stated. But at one point, she glides down from a high wall instead of using the stairs.



Exactly. It would merely be a return to the meaninglessness of the quantum singularity in its superstate.

if it were possible for a 'quantum singularity' to exist it would contain infinite knowledge...even if the knowledge was only worth a Poincare's point. That's infinite awareness...Presupposing, of course, the point was 'source' and conscious.

[Aragorn]

The mythical Inanna-Ishtar had the power of flight and could incinerate her enemies with her sight. She once showed me a vision of herself in battle, flying around and incinerating people with her eyes. She showed herself as a blonde woman, but she looked much like Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer, except much taller.

Well, I had Marissa Mayer pegged as an Aspie — the clue lies in how she speaks — but I guess I am now going to have to re-evaluate my position on her. :ha:





if it were possible for a 'quantum singularity' to exist it would contain infinite knowledge...even if the knowledge was only worth a Poincare's point. That's infinite awareness...Presupposing, of course, the point was 'source' and conscious.

Well, there is a difference between awareness and consciousness. It is the very nature of consciousness itself — i.e. awareness plus thought — which imposes the desire to create order out of chaos.

In addition to the Yin/Yang symbol, there is an additional symbol which clearly illustrates all of what I've written higher up the thread, i.e. the Ouroboros — the snake biting its own tail. :)



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[Dreamtimer]

Wheel of Time

https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbadalijewelry.com%2Fim ages%2Fproducts%2F70360.jpg&sp=00e6fe5564a4c4d8a204977bc6a3d549

https://s14-eu5.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.squarespace.c om%2Fstatic%2F56282d6ee4b07d02a8b4231b%2Ft%2F573d5 b4b746fb98ab39a7f8b%2F1463638867375%2F&sp=18ce1a1c4b29521800ee36d3c90b403e

By the time the first Age comes around again it has been forgotten.


(Dang, I just read up on how popular the books have become. There will be a TV show, to be done by Amazon)

I never picked an ajah.

And the scene of Egwene in the tower with the novices wielding the sa'angreal...:omg::omg::omg:

[Dumpster Diver]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eF3AiaQSqMo/UiR1M11UyYI/AAAAAAAAEzk/r7tWN8xWXeI/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Dilbert_Higgs_Boson.gif

[Dumpster Diver]

https://cdn.quotesgram.com/img/89/62/1870056004-5b2842d05d80f6fb974eaf12cb819041.jpg

[Dreamtimer]

At least he didn't tell him to cremate it.

[Dumpster Diver]

Ok, this year’s Tour de Pharmacy is over...it’s like an entire NFL season crammed into three weeks on bicycles...

http://inthemix.junkee.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/burning-man-bikes.jpg

[Emil El Zapato]

Ok, this year’s Tour de Pharmacy is over...it’s like an entire NFL season crammed into three weeks on bicycles...

http://inthemix.junkee.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/burning-man-bikes.jpg

they look like sisters... :)

[Dreamtimer]

The question is, Queen or Sir Mix-a-lot?

[Aragorn]

The question is, Queen or Sir Mix-a-lot?

I've never heard of Sir Mix-a-lot, but Queen's "Fat Bottomed Girls" is indeed what I too was thinking of. ;)

[Dreamtimer]

I posted a Lounge version of Sir Mix a Lot's song Baby Got Back.

[Dumpster Diver]

http://media.vocativ.com/photos/2016/09/2016_09_26_BasedDilbert3218142492.png

Dilbert has joined the Trump crowd.

[Dreamtimer]

Yeah, we were talking about Scott Adams (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11510-Chaos-and-the-Anti-Thread?p=841996541&viewfull=1#post841996541) a couple months ago.

[Dumpster Diver]

Yeah, we were talking about Scott Adams (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11510-Chaos-and-the-Anti-Thread?p=841996541&viewfull=1#post841996541) a couple months ago.

Sounds about right, I’m always a few months behind...

[Dumpster Diver]

Dreamy:

“I got a lifetime of "Oh honey, we should have listened to you" under my belt.

When the damage is already done, the nice words come too little too late. So I won't be waiting around for them.

It is what it is.

Even though the two 'clubs' are supposed to be a hoax, I'm still not in the right one. (ha ha, that's punny)“

Cassandra has nothing on us sweetie...

[Dreamtimer]

I gotta give Scott credit. He calls it like he sees it: Moist robots; access to admin passwords for human; reprogramming by master programmers.

[Dumpster Diver]

Dreamy:

“Two sports things recently happened.

Betting on sports is now legal.

LeBron James just announced he's gonna play in LA with the Lakers.

Hmmmm...

Should be interesting.

I'm not really a basketball fan and it's usually college ball that I watch when my husband is watching.

I am waiting for the betting to expand a bit so I can get a bookie and start betting on weird things.

(I don't play the lottery or gamble in games. And I never bet people money)“

My take on gambling. Sports are entirely controlled by the deep state.

One of my partners (I still own 1/3 of a “Sports Information” company in Australia), noticed many highly improbable events in our corporate “positions” and we researched how it was possible. Then a while back I read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Thanks-Memories-Memoirs-Kissingers-Mind-Controlled/dp/0966891627

...where Ms. Ford talks about how the LA Dodgers were mind controlled in the late 70s to early 80s...

Now we sell info, and don’t “take positions”...

[palooka's revenge]

Dreamy:

“Two sports things recently happened.

Betting on sports is now legal.

LeBron James just announced he's gonna play in LA with the Lakers.

Hmmmm...

Should be interesting.

I'm not really a basketball fan and it's usually college ball that I watch when my husband is watching.

I am waiting for the betting to expand a bit so I can get a bookie and start betting on weird things.

(I don't play the lottery or gamble in games. And I never bet people money)“

My take on gambling. Sports are entirely controlled by the deep state.

One of my partners (I still own 1/3 of a “Sports Information” company in Australia), noticed many highly improbable events in our corporate “positions” and we researched how it was possible. Then a while back I read this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Thanks-Memories-Memoirs-Kissingers-Mind-Controlled/dp/0966891627

...where Ms. Ford talks about how the LA Dodgers were mind controlled in the late 70s to early 80s...

Now we sell info, and don’t “take positions”...

WOW!!!

[Dumpster Diver]

...this just in on Bentinho Massaro. Published today in the Arizona Republic:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-best-reads/2018/05/09/bentinho-massaro-sedona-experiment-how-search-enlightenment-led-digital-cult/487923002/

[Maggie]

...this just in on Bentinho Massaro. Published today in the Arizona Republic:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-best-reads/2018/05/09/bentinho-massaro-sedona-experiment-how-search-enlightenment-led-digital-cult/487923002/

I am not about to belong to Bentinho's cult BUT there are many lonely people in the world. I feel very lonely at times and this led to me deeply reaching in to a space where I feel god within.

Yesterday i had a really strange experience. A couple came in for a massage. They were both "beautiful" people, kind of elegant and cool. I gave the blond lovely woman a massage. When ever I give a massage, I reach in to that space where a very still, quiet, powerful and elusive energy is found. With all my might I seek to focus there without thinking and allow that energy which is IMO able to keep my field clear for the "whatever".

Afterwards, she asked if I had been praying over her as she felt energy come in through my touch. She was appreciative. Is this prayer? I guess it is prayer. Lately I feel personally very lonely about "people". I don't feel my personality fits anywhere and I yearn for a different reality like this.


Does our world feel outdated to you in a sense? I’m talking about the way we live, the way we struggle, the way we primitively fight over money, power and use money as a means for enslavement. The way we don’t allow ourselves in our society to do what we love, but instead, it’s always about doing what we need to do to survive. Does this story, this narrative, this belief we live under, seem outdated and old? Are you aware that humans are capable of much more, and you are looking for that?https://www.collective-evolution.com/2018/08/05/ive-had-a-theory-about-aliens-for-years-and-im-watching-it-all-come-true/

But the fact that someone could articulate what i sense means IMO that I am in tune with a "real" shift.

The sense of isolation is IMO kind of a stepping stone to allowing "un I" and it seems to me that some of the inspiration Bentinho channels helps me.

Bentinho said on facebook where I looked after I saw the article in your post about him is actually from May (and wondered what is more current)


**Loneliness As A Path To God**

Do not underestimate the magnetic power of loneliness. There is a reason many people feel weirdly comfortable in it. It is a direct gateway into liberation. Let me clarify:

Loneliness is the vision of God, filtered through a lack-belief coming from the idea of ourselves as a person, a body, inside of a world.

The first stage is generally Loneliness - or the experience of being a person without God or holy company.

Once we stop running away from our loneliness and instead decide to meet it directly with an open presence, we transmute loneliness into Aloneness—which is the person meeting God within.

When we fall in love with Aloneness and begin to really appreciate the vast and endless stillness we find there, Aloneness turns into All Oneness—which is God without the heavy filter of thinking of ourselves as a body and a person inside of a world. It is sheer and formless freedom. All-pervading and unlimited bliss.

In this way, when we start looking directly at loneliness instead of trying to fill it up with new content every day as a way not to have to feel it directly, we begin the transmutation process of turning Loneliness into All Oneness.

In summary:
The Pain Stage: Loneliness — the person sense without God.

The Love Stage: Aloneness — the person sense meeting with God’s Presence within.

The Liberation Stage: All Oneness — God without the person sense.

——> From this moment onwards you will never be afraid of loneliness again. Instead you’ll meet it with excitement, knowing the alchemical process of turning perceived pain into love, and finally transmuting love into liberation, has now begun for you. Loneliness will never be the same again. Just like that.

[Emil El Zapato]

...this just in on Bentinho Massaro. Published today in the Arizona Republic:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-best-reads/2018/05/09/bentinho-massaro-sedona-experiment-how-search-enlightenment-led-digital-cult/487923002/

is this a bad link?

published 5:00 a.m. MT May 9, 2018 | Updated 1:47 p.m. MT May 10, 2018

[Dumpster Diver]

is this a bad link?

published 5:00 a.m. MT May 9, 2018 | Updated 1:47 p.m. MT May 10, 2018

just tried it, it (still) works for me...

...but I live next to the vortex...

[Dreamtimer]

There's a podcast (https://people.howstuffworks.com/is-technology-driving-new-era-cults.htm) examining 'digital cults' focusing on Betinho. It's from March.

[Dumpster Diver]

I don’t care how cleaver, funny, or interesting it is, if it is on Twitter or Facebook, I won’t take a look at it...

...we are talking full frontal boycotting folks.

http://i0.wp.com/21stcenturywire.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/1-Facebook-Censorship.jpg?resize=610%2C417

[Dumpster Diver]

https://www.cs.vu.nl/~frankh/dilbert/stress.jpg

This is how I’m feeling today...

In my last job my nickname was Wally, here’s why:

http://briefcasegod.humgar.com/resource/dilbert/dilbert2005071149490.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/31/de/df31de0ca72da9eb2f4d1358b6598afb--funny-work-humor-its-funny.jpg

I’m in a Wally kinda mood today...

[Dreamtimer]

Asgardia is outer space, and Agartha is inner earth, right?

[Aragorn]

Asgardia is outer space, and Agartha is inner earth, right?

Supposedly, yes. :)

[Dumpster Diver]

Supposedly, yes. :)

Thanks. Actually, I wouldn't know excepting to google it...

I think this is important stuff:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=topPjxfby50

healing the body using resonance via tuning forks.

[Maggie]

Thanks. Actually, I wouldn't know excepting to google it...

I think this is important stuff:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=topPjxfby50

healing the body using resonance via tuning forks.

thanks for this info... it is really valuable. I liked this one too.

YIUXXDI3VR4

[Maggie]

thanks for this info... it is really valuable. I liked this one too.

YIUXXDI3VR4

This is so in line with my current perception though when she talks about the content of the field, I have no idea.

34gcvxtuFGk

NVqaRGpq_gc

[Dumpster Diver]

Here’s an idea:

White hats (military) recruit Trump, Trump being the lesser of all the evils in the political world, especially the Hildabeast. They view him like the allies in WWII view Stalin: bad, but much better than the wolf closest to the sled of Hitler. They promise him (fingers crossed) that when the smoke clears, they’ll “take care of him.” Trump, knowing the fallout that could happen, says yes, but still is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

The secret war rages on, with Trump, unable keep his mouth shut, and goaded on by the white hats, creates a massive sideshow to keep the public “enthralled” and the black hats occupied in spite of all sorts of evidence emerging regarding the secret war. Classic diversionary tactic. Meanwhile, one domino falls after another in Trump’s administration. The white hats really don’t care as they have their hands full, plus if Trump happens to go, they pull a coup and declare Martial Law as a last resort. But they really would rather not do this as keeping the public diverted is best in all cases.

War continues with white hats eventually winning. If Trump gets taken down, oh well, “we didn’t like Stalin either” but he creates a perfect diversion. If Trump survives, the white hats won’t send him off to Gitmo with the Bushs, Hildabeast, and Billy-Bob.

Btw, in WWII the bulk of the fighting happen on the Eastern front with the Soviets taking the most casualties. They are the ones who really won the war against the Nazis. Eventually they succumbed to a long Cold War, unable to completely rebuild out of the destruction of WWII. The US, which never had any fighting in its borders, uses its economic engine to eventually grind down the Soviets.

[Chris]

Btw, in WWII the bulk of the fighting happen on the Eastern front with the Soviets taking the most casualties. They are the ones who really won the war against the Nazis. Eventually they succumbed to a long Cold War, unable to completely rebuild out of the destruction of WWII. The US, which never had any fighting in its borders, uses its economic engine to eventually grind down the Soviets.

I have to correct you there slightly. Until June 1941, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were close allies. If it wasn't for the British Empire standing up to the Nazis at the time, the war would have ended in 1939. Even after Hitler attacked the SU, Britain's support was vital in keeping the Soviets in the war. 75 percent of the tanks that fought the Battle of Moscow, beating the Nazis back for the very first time, were British. After that, the brutal winter of 1941-42 was vital in stopping the German advance and Soviet Russia would have fallen if it wasn't for that vital lifeline the Royal Navy provided from Britain to the port of Archangel (Arkhangelsk), supplying the Red Army with everything it needed. Massive amounts of war material, food, planes, tanks, etc... were transported in what was known as the Arctic Convoys. Most of the fighting was indeed done by the Soviets, but they did it mostly with war material provided first by Britain and her Empire (Including Canada, India, Australia, etc...) and later the US.

[Aragorn]

Btw, in WWII the bulk of the fighting happen on the Eastern front with the Soviets taking the most casualties. They are the ones who really won the war against the Nazis. Eventually they succumbed to a long Cold War, unable to completely rebuild out of the destruction of WWII. The US, which never had any fighting in its borders, uses its economic engine to eventually grind down the Soviets.


This is only partly true. What killed off the Soviet Union as a regime was a combination of multiple things...:



Like you said, the US financial-economical machine and its corporate hegemony. The entire world is ruled by capitalism and corporatism, and as such, (proto-)socialist regimes have to function as enclaves within that system, given that no nation in the world is entirely economically self-sufficient. There will always be a necessity for trade with other nations.

The Soviets and other proto-socialist regimes — i.e. Cuba, North Vietnam, North Korea and China — could partly compensate for this by trading among themselves, but ultimately, this proved insufficient to meet their respective needs, and thus they also had to start trading with capitalist countries.



Jimmy Carter's security adviser was Zbigniew Brzezinski, who single-handedly orchestrated that the Soviet Union would invade Afghanistan, and then funded and, by way of the Saudi mercenary Osama Bin Laden — known to the CIA as "Tim Osman" — trained the Afghani resistance movement, the Mujahedin.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was an incredibly bloody and brutal war, with lots of casualties on both sides. As a result, both the Soviet military and the Soviet political leadership at the time took a serious beating.



Related to the second paragraph of the above bullet point, albeit somewhat independent from it at the same time, was the infiltration of the Soviet regime by the Russian oligarchs. This started with Mikhail Gorbachev, and after Gorbachev had been temporarily removed as leader of the Soviet Union by the die-hard communists and then reinstated again by Boris Yeltsin with the help from the Russian military, Yeltsin himself then became the new leader, and the Soviet Union was converted into what is now the Russian Federation.

After that, oligarch henchman and former head of the FSB — itself the successor to the KGB — Vladimir Putin then rose to power, and has been firmly in control since. At one point he had to step down because he had served his two terms as president and the Russian constitution did not allow him to run for a third term, but then he had his own henchman Dimitry Medvedev be president for one term while he himself carried out the role of prime minister. After that one term, the conditions were met again for Putin to return as president, and then he and Medvedev simply switched places again.

[Chris]

This is only partly true. What killed off the Soviet Union as a regime was a combination of multiple things...:



Like you said, the US financial-economical machine and its corporate hegemony. The entire world is ruled by capitalism and corporatism, and as such, (proto-)socialist regimes have to function as enclaves within that system, given that no nation in the world is entirely economically self-sufficient. There will always be a necessity for trade with other nations.

The Soviets and other proto-socialist regimes — i.e. Cuba, North Vietnam, North Korea and China — could partly compensate for this by trading among themselves, but ultimately, this proved insufficient to meet their respective needs, and thus they also had to start trading with capitalist countries.



Jimmy Carter's security adviser was Zbigniew Brzezinski, who single-handedly orchestrated that the Soviet Union would invade Afghanistan, and then funded and, by way of the Saudi mercenary Osama Bin Laden — known to the CIA as "Tim Osman" — trained the Afghani resistance movement, the Mujahedin.

The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was an incredibly bloody and brutal war, with lots of casualties on both sides. As a result, both the Soviet military and the Soviet political leadership at the time took a serious beating.



Related to the second paragraph of the above bullet point, albeit somewhat independent from it at the same time, was the infiltration of the Soviet regime by the Russian oligarchs. This started with Mikhail Gorbachev, and after Gorbachev had been temporarily removed as leader of the Soviet Union by the die-hard communists and then reinstated again by Boris Yeltsin with the help from the Russian military, Yeltsin himself then became the new leader, and the Soviet Union was converted into what is now the Russian Federation.

After that, oligarch henchman and former head of the FSB — itself the successor to the KGB — Vladimir Putin then rose to power, and has been firmly in control since. At one point he had to step down because he had served his two terms as president and the Russian constitution did not allow him to run for a third term, but then he had his own henchman Dimitry Medvedev be president for one term while he himself carried out the role of prime minister. After that one term, the conditions were met again for Putin to return as president, and then he and Medvedev simply switched places again.


Those are all good points, though ultimately what killed the USSR was the collapse in Oil prices. The USSR was dependent on grain imports from the West, mostly from the US, ironically, and paid for it with Oil exports. It didn't really produce much else of value. Even Hungary's prosperity in the 1980s (which was considerable compared to its Eastern Block neighbours in the seventies and the eighties) had a lot to do with the utter stupidity of Soviet central planning, where cheap energy (Oil, Gas and Nuclear power) was sent to Hungary for next to nothing and sold on to Austria at a massive profit. However, what killed the golden goose for the SU was the simultaneous coming on of the Alaskan and North Sea oil and gas fields, as well as a scheme concocted by the State Department and the Saudi royals in the late eighties, to flood the market with below-cost oil, collapsing the oil price and making the SU's only exportable commodity next to worthless, as well as unnecessary from a supply standpoint. That was really the final straw that broke the camel's back and the very reverse, a shortage of oil and a spike in prices almost did the same to the US in 2007.

[palooka's revenge]

Here’s an idea:

White hats (military) recruit Trump, Trump being the lesser of all the evils in the political world, especially the Hildabeast. They view him like the allies in WWII view Stalin: bad, but much better than the wolf closest to the sled of Hitler. They promise him (fingers crossed) that when the smoke clears, they’ll “take care of him.” Trump, knowing the fallout that could happen, says yes, but still is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

The secret war rages on, with Trump, unable keep his mouth shut, and goaded on by the white hats, creates a massive sideshow to keep the public “enthralled” and the black hats occupied in spite of all sorts of evidence emerging regarding the secret war. Classic diversionary tactic. Meanwhile, one domino falls after another in Trump’s administration. The white hats really don’t care as they have their hands full, plus if Trump happens to go, they pull a coup and declare Martial Law as a last resort. But they really would rather not do this as keeping the public diverted is best in all cases.

War continues with white hats eventually winning. If Trump gets taken down, oh well, “we didn’t like Stalin either” but he creates a perfect diversion. If Trump survives, the white hats won’t send him off to Gitmo with the Bushs, Hildabeast, and Billy-Bob.

Btw, in WWII the bulk of the fighting happen on the Eastern front with the Soviets taking the most casualties. They are the ones who really won the war against the Nazis. Eventually they succumbed to a long Cold War, unable to completely rebuild out of the destruction of WWII. The US, which never had any fighting in its borders, uses its economic engine to eventually grind down the Soviets.

yes indeed. but the puppet, with so many 'playable personality defects upon which to prey' is being played to dance in far more than diversion. he is instead co-oped and left to believe he is running the show. the perfect operative...

[Emil El Zapato]

Here’s an idea:

White hats (military) recruit Trump, Trump being the lesser of all the evils in the political world, especially the Hildabeast. They view him like the allies in WWII view Stalin: bad, but much better than the wolf closest to the sled of Hitler. They promise him (fingers crossed) that when the smoke clears, they’ll “take care of him.” Trump, knowing the fallout that could happen, says yes, but still is not the sharpest tool in the shed.

The secret war rages on, with Trump, unable keep his mouth shut, and goaded on by the white hats, creates a massive sideshow to keep the public “enthralled” and the black hats occupied in spite of all sorts of evidence emerging regarding the secret war. Classic diversionary tactic. Meanwhile, one domino falls after another in Trump’s administration. The white hats really don’t care as they have their hands full, plus if Trump happens to go, they pull a coup and declare Martial Law as a last resort. But they really would rather not do this as keeping the public diverted is best in all cases.

War continues with white hats eventually winning. If Trump gets taken down, oh well, “we didn’t like Stalin either” but he creates a perfect diversion. If Trump survives, the white hats won’t send him off to Gitmo with the Bushs, Hildabeast, and Billy-Bob.

Btw, in WWII the bulk of the fighting happen on the Eastern front with the Soviets taking the most casualties. They are the ones who really won the war against the Nazis. Eventually they succumbed to a long Cold War, unable to completely rebuild out of the destruction of WWII. The US, which never had any fighting in its borders, uses its economic engine to eventually grind down the Soviets.

So, in the balance...in the past the U.S. would have been preferable as a world leader given that it has at least a pretense of practicing Democracy...now it really doesn't matter...Take your pick...Putin or Trump...choose your favorite dictator.

[palooka's revenge]

So, in the balance...in the past the U.S. would have been preferable as a world leader given that it has at least a pretense of practicing Democracy...now it really doesn't matter...Take your pick...Putin or Trump...choose your favorite dictator.

i'm highly suspicious that more and more and more, around the world, it was becoming clearer and clearer and clearer, that PRETENSE is all it ever was and this played a role on deeper layers of the cake in trump coming to power.

that presentation being, in many cases, carried out over many years by well meaning minions totally oblivious to the fact they were being played.

[Dumpster Diver]

So, in the balance...in the past the U.S. would have been preferable as a world leader given that it has at least a pretense of practicing Democracy...now it really doesn't matter...Take your pick...Putin or Trump...choose your favorite dictator.

...or Martial Law. Actually, that is really what we are under. Trump is the puppet, the hand is the white hat military.

[Aragorn]

[...] the white hat military.

Ain't no such thing, old buddy. ;) (Borrowed from Carl Weathers in "Predator".)

[Chris]

Trump is a wannabe dictator, not an actual one. Putin is in a whole another league, he is a vicious, murderous ex-KGB spymaster and a mob boss. He is rumoured to be the richest man alive. Erdogan isn't far behind, with his billion-dollar palace and his illegal oil deals with Isis. Trump doesn't even play in the same league, he is a real(i)ty star who has been thrusted in the role of president more or less by accident. If it wasn't for Obama and Seth Meyers goading him on that now historic White House Correspondent's dinner roasting, he would have probably never run anyway.

As it is, he has serious dementia, probably due to lack of sleep. He has never slept more than 3-4 hours a night during his entire adult life and this is now beginning to take its toll. To those that are his fans, I'm sorry to say that he is a non-entity on the world stage and nobody takes him seriously. Everyone knows that he isn't the one making the important decisions and other leaders just try to ignore him as much as possible and deal with the adults in the State Department instead.


Trump does have mob connections, but he's nowhere near the top of the hierarchy, he's just a useful asset for the actual bosses. Putin is a boss, Trump is a minion, big difference.

[heyokah]

~~~~

Why the Deep State Hates Putin

by Chris Kanthan
Thu, 03 May 2018

Russophobia in America today is as intense as it was at the height of Cold War when terrified school kids had "Duck and Cover" drills and the public was obsessed with bomb shelters. However, all the drama hides the real conflict: geopolitical power struggle for world domination, which involves hundreds of trillions of dollars, massive egos of Machiavellian elites, and nations driven by memory of the past and visions of the future.

Here's the big picture: it's a geopolitical battle of USA + EU versus Russia + China. The US and EU are governed by the same banking and military-industrial overlords, while Russia and China - two independent countries - have made an alliance out of necessity. Why? If Russia falls, China will be the next.

Get the bear, you get the dragon, and thus you get the world.

But here is the kicker: the globalists did trap the bear in 1991 when the USSR collapsed. However, rather than befriending the bear, they caged it and then starved, tortured and humiliated it for the next eight years. That's when the bear tore down the cage and fought back.

Betrayal in the 1990's

The biggest theft of the century happened in Russia in the 1990's, and the perpetrators were Wall Street shysters who promised miracles of capitalism, but instead dismantled the entire country. In the name of privatization, Russia was put up for fire sale. A handful of Russian oligarchs, carefully selected by the US, ended up with assets worth hundreds of billions of dollars. In exchange, each Russian citizen got a "share" worth $7. The US taxpayers even subsidized this disgusting racket.

Under this shock therapy administered by American vulture capitalists, Russia's GDP fell 40%. The country was loaded up with crushing debt from the IMF and World Bank, and poverty and suicide soared.

The Russian military was decimated, demoralized and was badly losing wars to Islamic terrorists in Chechnya and Dagestan. Oh, these terrorists were the same Mujahideen from Afghanistan and were still funded by Saudi Arabia and armed by the US.

Most Russian politicians, including President Yeltsin, were bought off and controlled by Washington, as Bill Clinton bragged to Tony Blair.

Putin's Empire

Under these dreadful circumstances, Putin became the Acting President of Russia on Dec 31, 1999. Over the next few years, he took on the powerful oligarchs, corrupt politicians and the elites who formed the fifth column. Putin was helped by rising oil prices, but he used the new wealth wisely. He grew the Russian economy, built up gold and foreign reserves, and significantly reduced the national debt.

1. Between 1999 and 2014, Russia's GDP grew 10-fold and it's world rank surged from 22nd to 8th
2. Russia's debt-to-GDP ratio fell from 100% in 1999 to 17% in 2016
3. Foreign reserves grew from virtually nothing to the 6th largest in the world
4. Gold reserves grew to become the 5th largest in the world

Putin started RT - Russia's own global news channel, banned GMO, turned Russia into the #1 exporter of wheat, kicked out George Soros, and fought Cultural Marxism. He built over 15,000 churches, encouraged families to have more children, and banned transgender/gay propaganda to children.

Finally, Putin rebuilt Russia's military, crushed Islamic terrorists in Chechnya and, in a geopolitical stunner that transpired in Syria, prevailed against a mighty coalition of the US, Israel, UK, France, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and up to 250,000 jihadists. Also, rather than getting into an arms race, Putin has developed hypersonic missiles which have made the former ability of US defense systems and aircraft carriers to attack other nations with impunity moot.

Putin's diplomacy has also been remarkable. After the 2014 US sanctions and the precipitous fall in oil prices, every pundit and politician predicted the isolation of Putin and the demise of Russia's economy. However, leaders around the world continued to work with Putin.

In other words, Putin made Russia great again. This is why his approval rating is still over 80% and he easily won the reelection in 2018.

Russia under attack

However, the globalists have had their own victories as well. In 2003-2004, pro-Russia governments in Georgia and Ukraine were overthrown by George Soros' color revolutions. In 2014, the US staged a violent coup in Ukraine, overthrew a democratically elected leader, and replaced him with an unelected billionaire and a coterie of neo-Nazis.

Ukraine has been a CIA target for decades. As Brzezinski wrote in his book, The Grand Chessboard, Russia will be paralyzed without access to Crimea and the Black Sea - the only Russian gateway to the Mediterranean Sea. Sensing danger after the 2013 coup, Putin quickly held a referendum in Crimea and solved the issue.

Another area where Russia was backstabbed: NATO expansion. Contrary to the promises made during the dissolution of USSR, NATO has added 13 new European countries, which are all potential hosts for US/NATO military bases. Many of these countries are now part of the missile defense system. What this means is that the US could first launch a nuclear attack against Russia and then, theoretically, shoot down the missiles that Russia fires in response. The entire situation is extremely volatile and dangerous - Russia has 6,800 nuclear weapons.

All this bullying is just a symptom of the wounded egos of globalists who have failed in their attempts to conquer Russia definitively. In fact, they tried to do so six times in the last 200 years -1812, 1856, 1905, World War I, World War II, and the Wall Street takeover of Russia in the 1990's.

Rothschilds, Bolshevism and Hitler

In 1812, funded by the Rothschilds, Napoleon invaded Russia. In 1856, Britain and France attacked and took over Crimea-for the same reason that the US staged a coup in Ukraine in 2013.

In 1905, banksters on Wall Street - Jacob Schiff and others - funded Japan to attack Russia. In the midst of the war, the banksters tried to foment a revolution and overthrow the Czar. The guy who lead the revolution was Leon Trotsky. He failed in 1905 and fled Russia, but came back in 1917 using the same playbook, using Germany instead of Japan.

Before World War I, Trotsky and Lenin raised millions of dollars from international banksters. Trotsky visited New York and got an American passport so he could sneak back into Russia. Flush with cash from capitalists, the communists (Bolsheviks) killed the Czar during World War I and quickly signed a peace treaty with Germany. Danke Schoen!

Thus the evil empire of Soviet Union was a creation of America and Europe - a fact that is erased from Western history books. The Soviet Union was the result of a civil war fomented by outside forces - a civil war in which the bad guys won. Bolshevism was a foreign virus that invaded Russia, killed tens of millions of Russians and tried to destroy Christianity - Russian's religion for over 1000 years. However, when Americans think of "Russians," they are only taught to think of the Soviet Union.

Fast forward to World War II, it was again Europe (Germany) that attacked Russia. 20 million Russians died fighting the Nazis, two million just in the city of Leningrad. Russia fought the Nazis for four years and destroyed 70% of Hitler's army. However, the US came at the end of the game (in 1944) and got all the accolade for "defeating the Nazis."

Moving Forward

Knowing all this, an honest person would not cast Russia as the enemy of the West. Russia will be an enemy only if we demand its subservience. Russia and China are determined to preserve their sovereignty. They are also trying to break free from the petrodollar system, which lets the US borrow trillions without repercussions.

Global conflicts and wars are very addictive for the military-industrial complex, which holds 800 military bases around the world, a $700 billion a year budget and $35 billion/year of weapons exports. Wars also mean massive debts for nations, which is exactly what the international banksters want. Global corporations are drawn to a unipolar world because that guarantees them monopoly, cheap labor and raw materials and access to customers. Social engineers rely on monolithic corporate media to spread the same propaganda all over the world. Will the confluence of these forces refuse to accept a multipolar world? Will they push us into disastrous wars, potentially even a nuclear war?

Let's remember JFK's "Peace Speech" from 1963:

https://www.sott.net/image/s23/465660/large/deepstateputin6.jpg

https://www.sott.net/article/384633-Why-the-Deep-State-Hates-Putin#

[Chris]

I'm sorry, but I have to object to Kremlin propaganda being presented as fact. Many in the alternative media are guilty of repeating and rehashing propaganda material coming straight from Moscow. This is not OK, as most people are not well-informed enough and have no direct experience with Moscow's tactics and methods to be able to see through the deception. Zerohedge is a particularly slimy operator in this regard, but so are many alt-right and conspiracy websites, including Infowars. Also RT has an anti-Western and anti-liberal agenda of its own as does Sputnik News, if you think the news coming from those sources is unbiased, you are sadly mistaken.


Any material that presents Putin and Russia in a glowing light and the West as in decline, about to collapse or a hotbed of corruption and moral decay is just the same old rehashed Kremlin propaganda. Do not fall for it! They have been saying this for over a hundred years, yet the West is doing just fine, whereas Russia has actually collapsed a number of times. Russia (and China) is going to collapse over and over again, every few decades, for various, complicated reasons, whereas western democracies, including the EU and the US, will keep chugging along. There is a reason not many westerners want to move to Russia and China, but there are millions of people coming the other way. Pay attention to what people do, rather than what they say. The alternative community is full of predictions of Doom regarding the West and full of praise for Russia and to a lesser extent, China. Not everything is as it seems and I would urge everyone to use caution and discernment when it comes to this area.

[Dreamtimer]

There certainly are millions trying to come here. And plenty of room for them.

The anti-immigration fervor is a form of false scarcity fear-mongering.

[Chris]

There certainly are millions trying to come here. And plenty of room for them.

The anti-immigration fervor is a form of false scarcity fear-mongering.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for unfettered, uncontrolled mass illegal immigration. That brings its own problems. However, controlled and regulated legal immigration, with limits placed on it, is generally beneficial. I have been a legal immigrant to several countries and know how the process works. Singapore is a particularly good example of how to do immigration in a way that benefits everyone. They have a two-tier system, with very little red tape. Work permits are issued to low-level workers who earn less than 3000 dollars a month and don't have at least a Bachelor's degree. Work permit holders cannot become permanent residents and can't apply for Singaporean citizenship.

I was on an employment pass, which is issued to skilled workers earning at least 3000 dollars a month and with at least a Bachelor's Degree in any field. Employment Pass holders can apply for permanent residency after 2 years and can eventually become Singaporean citizens. The system works very well and with a minimum amount of red tape. It generally takes only a few days for the paperwork to go through. It really is a very smart immigration system that others should copy.

[Dreamtimer]

Thanks for the useful information, Chris.

[heyokah]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for unfettered, uncontrolled mass illegal immigration. That brings its own problems. However, controlled and regulated legal immigration, with limits placed on it, is generally beneficial........

Thanks, Chris. That’s how Donald Trump thinks about immigration as well. :)

[Dumpster Diver]

Ain't no such thing, old buddy. ;) (Borrowed from Carl Weathers in "Predator".)

True, I should have put “white hat” in quotes, or maybe gray hat...

[palooka's revenge]

If it wasn't for Obama and Seth Meyers goading him on that now historic White House Correspondent's dinner roasting, he would have probably never run anyway.


bingo, u read the mail right on that one chris. u could see it in his eyes... i'm gonna get that f---er...

[Emil El Zapato]

I can make this one a short one.

Russophobia doesn't exist. Russian manipulation, criminality, imperialism, paranoia, propaganda milling, and in general having an a-hole as a leader is, in fact, a reality.

Why place a label on something that is essentially meaningless. Put it in perspective...Ever heard of the Red Scare led by another leader of the paranoid phobics, McCarthy. Big, big, big difference, one term is applicable, the other is flailing in the dark while waving a propagandized meme.


Thanks, Chris. That’s how Donald Trump thinks about immigration as well. :)

no, that's how Trump 'pretends' to think about it. He is a xenophobic, racist, elitist, mindless idiot. No understanding of history, social consciousness, social realities, psychological realities, psychology as taught to 3rd graders, genetics, or anything else and further doesn't care beyond his ability to manipulate the half-wits that are in the same intellectual basket as him.

[Chris]

Since we're talking about Trump here, who better to sum up the shitstorm we find ourselves in than Jonathan Pie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=Vp9MoPVDsGI

[Dumpster Diver]

Look, Russian has walked thru a lot of sh!t in the last century plus. Now they have a strong, agressive leader who has led them to stronger economic times, living standards are better, and he shoves back against the Khazarian Kontrolled US and Europe.

I can’t fault them. Especially since Putin could have been much more aggressive at times, but declined to do so. What’s wrong with a strong, tough leader especially in this nasty environment?

[Emil El Zapato]

well, there's the little matter of killing detractors whether they are poor farmers or heads of state.

[Chris]

Look, Russian has walked thru a lot of sh!t in the last century plus. Now they have a strong, agressive leader who has led them to stronger economic times, living standards are better, and he shoves back against the Khazarian Kontrolled US and Europe.

I can’t fault them. Especially since Putin could have been much more aggressive at times, but declined to do so. What’s wrong with a strong, tough leader especially in this nasty environment?

I get your point, but it is really a lot more complicated than that. First of all Jews and Khazars are not the same people. Yes, I know about Shlomo Sand and Arthur Koestler, but at this point it is almost impossible to pick apart what really happened to the Khazars, or what percentage of today's Ashkenazim are descended from the medieval Khazar people. According to mainstream History, Hungarians in fact are at least one third Khazar. When our ancestors settled in the Carpathian Basin, they left what was then Khazaria and took four Khazar tribes with them. Seven Magyar and Four Khazar tribes settled here, mixing with populations that were already present, such as Slavs, Romanians, Avars and Germans, to form what is now considered the Hungarian people. It is not known if Hungarian Jews (such as George Soros, Edward Teller, John Von Neumann, etc...) are descended from this medieval Khazar population, but it is unlikely. At the time, in the 9th century, the chieftains of both the Hungarian and Khazar tribes were nominally Jewish, that is they converted to Judaism, for reasons of political expediency. The general population however was not Jewish, they continued following shamanism as their religion, which, having come from Siberia, was not unlike the religious beliefs of native Americans in the US today. In 1000 AD, all inhabitants of the Kingdom of Hungary, which covered a vast area at the time, were forcibly converted to Christianity, including the descendants of the Khazars, whether they followed Judaism at the time or not (unlikely).

Quite separately from the Khazar-Jewish enigma, whatever you may think of that, it is a fact that the vast majority of Oligarchs in Russia that got rich through political connections and the privatisation of state assets, which they obtained for next to nothing, were in fact Jewish. You could say that Putin reigned in these mostly Jewish Oligarchs, but that's not really true, it is more accurate to say that they came to a mutually beneficial agreement and an alliance of sorts. Those that opposed Putin, were jailed, murdered or were exiled, but the ones that stayed on his good side (such as Roman Abramovich, now an Israeli citizen), were allowed to keep their ill-gotten riches.

It gets more complicated still, because Israel has a very strong Russian element to its population. Up to one-third of the population of Israel is made up of ethnic Russians, who mostly moved there after the collapse of the Soviet Union under Israeli right of return laws. It is now widely believed that many of these so-called Russian Jews have almost no actual Jewish ancestry, or if they do, only very tentatively. They are in fact sometimes openly anti-semitic and form a very strong far-right element in Israel itself, being mostly responsible for the hard-right turn of the latest Netanyahu government. He is the most moderate person in that government, almost all of his allies are hard-right ideologues, who often call for the extermination of the Palestinian people and openly refer to them as vermin. There is also an extreme racial hierarchy with Ethiopian Jews for instance clearly treated as second-class citizens.

Since both Netanyahu and Putin are essentially of the far-right and in charge of a population with strong cultural and historical connections to Russia, they have started coming together in recent years. Orbán has been acting as a sort of intermediary, since he has been a close friend of Netanyahu for decades (they help each other a lot politically) and is also quite close to Putin, and now, apparently Trump. All these people are democrats on the surface only, once you dig deeper, the authoritarian tendencies and the far-right ideology becomes obvious. Orbán is a fan of Steve Bannon and Breitbart. Putin is a fan of Alex Jones and Infowars, as is Trump. Roger Stone is almost certainly a Putin operative. There are probably many others we don't know of. There is in fact a growing international right-wing conspiracy to usurp democracy and overturn the post-war Western Liberal Order. This is a real thing and a real threat. Unfortunately the alt-right and much of the alternative research scene has been co-opted by this movement and they are toppling governments and getting into power one country after another. Austria and Italy were just the latest examples.

As for Putin, he may be tough and strong, but he is also a crook and the leader of a vast crime and spy network that is utterly ruthless and murders people in its way as a matter of course. Netanyahu, Trump and Orbán cannot do this yet, as there is still a semblance of democracy and the rule of law in their countries, but who knows how long this will last. Hungary is already far gone in the direction of becoming a right-wing dictatorship, and I'm afraid the US isn't far behind on current form. It is in the interests of Putin to accelerate this process, a sort of alt-right coup and the consequences could be quite dire. It is not too late to turn this around, but it is rather disheartening that most people aren't aware that this is even happening. It is even more disturbing from my perspective, that what I consider my intellectual and ideological brethren, the alternative and conspiracy research community, is not only cheering this process on, but is a major part of the problem and helping this right-wing globalist dictatorship become a reality.

[Emil El Zapato]

Great post, Chris... :rock:

[Dumpster Diver]

I get your point, but it is really a lot more complicated than that. First of all Jews and Khazars are not the same people. Yes, I know about Shlomo Sand and Arthur Koestler, but at this point it is almost impossible to pick apart what really happened to the Khazars, or what percentage of today's Ashkenazim are descended from the medieval Khazar people. According to mainstream History, Hungarians in fact are at least one third Khazar. When our ancestors settled in the Carpathian Basin, they left what was then Khazaria and took four Khazar tribes with them. Seven Magyar and Four Khazar tribes settled here, mixing with populations that were already present, such as Slavs, Romanians, Avars and Germans, to form what is now considered the Hungarian people. It is not known if Hungarian Jews (such as George Soros, Edward Teller, John Von Neumann, etc...) are descended from this medieval Khazar population, but it is unlikely. At the time, in the 9th century, the chieftains of both the Hungarian and Khazar tribes were nominally Jewish, that is they converted to Judaism, for reasons of political expediency. The general population however was not Jewish, they continued following shamanism as their religion, which, having come from Siberia, was not unlike the religious beliefs of native Americans in the US today. In 1000 AD, all inhabitants of the Kingdom of Hungary, which covered a vast area at the time, were forcibly converted to Christianity, including the descendants of the Khazars, whether they followed Judaism at the time or not (unlikely).

Quite separately from the Khazar-Jewish enigma, whatever you may think of that, it is a fact that the vast majority of Oligarchs in Russia that got rich through political connections and the privatisation of state assets, which they obtained for next to nothing, were in fact Jewish. You could say that Putin reigned in these mostly Jewish Oligarchs, but that's not really true, it is more accurate to say that they came to a mutually beneficial agreement and an alliance of sorts. Those that opposed Putin, were jailed, murdered or were exiled, but the ones that stayed on his good side (such as Roman Abramovich, now an Israeli citizen), were allowed to keep their ill-gotten riches.

It gets more complicated still, because Israel has a very strong Russian element to its population. Up to one-third of the population of Israel is made up of ethnic Russians, who mostly moved there after the collapse of the Soviet Union under Israeli right of return laws. It is now widely believed that many of these so-called Russian Jews have almost no actual Jewish ancestry, or if they do, only very tentatively. They are in fact sometimes openly anti-semitic and form a very strong far-right element in Israel itself, being mostly responsible for the hard-right turn of the latest Netanyahu government. He is the most moderate person in that government, almost all of his allies are hard-right ideologues, who often call for the extermination of the Palestinian people and openly refer to them as vermin. There is also an extreme racial hierarchy with Ethiopian Jews for instance clearly treated as second-class citizens.

Since both Netanyahu and Putin are essentially of the far-right and in charge of a population with strong cultural and historical connections to Russia, they have started coming together in recent years. Orbán has been acting as a sort of intermediary, since he has been a close friend of Netanyahu for decades (they help each other a lot politically) and is also quite close to Putin, and now, apparently Trump. All these people are democrats on the surface only, once you dig deeper, the authoritarian tendencies and the far-right ideology becomes obvious. Orbán is a fan of Steve Bannon and Breitbart. Putin is a fan of Alex Jones and Infowars, as is Trump. Roger Stone is almost certainly a Putin operative. There are probably many others we don't know of. There is in fact a growing international right-wing conspiracy to usurp democracy and overturn the post-war Western Liberal Order. This is a real thing and a real threat. Unfortunately the alt-right and much of the alternative research scene has been co-opted by this movement and they are toppling governments and getting into power one country after another. Austria and Italy were just the latest examples.

As for Putin, he may be tough and strong, but he is also a crook and the leader of a vast crime and spy network that is utterly ruthless and murders people in its way as a matter of course. Netanyahu, Trump and Orbán cannot do this yet, as there is still a semblance of democracy and the rule of law in their countries, but who knows how long this will last. Hungary is already far gone in the direction of becoming a right-wing dictatorship, and I'm afraid the US isn't far behind on current form. It is in the interests of Putin to accelerate this process, a sort of alt-right coup and the consequences could be quite dire. It is not too late to turn this around, but it is rather disheartening that most people aren't aware that this is even happening. It is even more disturbing from my perspective, that what I consider my intellectual and ideological brethren, the alternative and conspiracy research community, is not only cheering this process on, but is a major part of the problem and helping this right-wing globalist dictatorship become a reality.

I appreciate this perspective. I am an avid reader of Russian history, especially the Soviet Revolution. This came from my “know your enemy” days in the US military. I’ve also done a fair bit of digging into the Khazarian-Jewish connection.

I’m not here to damn anybody. But I do like to try on other folks “shoes” to see their perspective. But, I will admit to goading folks a bit.

I blame that on the Devil...:goodbad:

[Chris]

I appreciate this perspective. I am an avid reader of Russian history, especially the Soviet Revolution. This came from my “know your enemy” days in the US military. I’ve also done a fair bit of digging into the Khazarian-Jewish connection.

I’m not here to damn anybody. But I do like to try on other folks “shoes” to see their perspective. But, I will admit to goading folks a bit.

I blame that on the Devil...:goodbad:

Just to provide a contrary perspective to my own post above, I am a big fan of Dmitry Orlov, a Russian-American Engineer, Physicist, Linguist and Author, who writes about Putin in glowing terms. I think he'd be right up your alley, if you want to check him out. I have been following him since 2007. I think he's absolutely spot on when it comes to his analysis of the US, Global geopolitics, the psychology and inner workings of collapse (particularly that of the Soviet Union) and many other topics. I do think he's far too biased towards Russia and Putin and against the US and Britain. I fundamentally disagree with him on the Topic of Russia, but I still think he's a valuable public intellectual, whose ideas should be considered carefully.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/

[Dumpster Diver]

Just to provide a contrary perspective to my own post above, I am a big fan of Dmitry Orlov, a Russian-American Engineer, Physicist, Linguist and Author, who writes about Putin in glowing terms. I think he'd be right up your alley, if you want to check him out. I have been following him since 2007. I think he's absolutely spot on when it comes to his analysis of the US, Global geopolitics, the psychology and inner workings of collapse (particularly that of the Soviet Union) and many other topics. I do think he's far too biased towards Russia and Putin and against the US and Britain. I fundamentally disagree with him on the Topic of Russia, but I still think he's a valuable public intellectual, whose ideas should be considered carefully.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/

Thanks! Your post and perspective is why I hang out at “woo-woo” sites like TOT as I feel there is a bit of truth in almost all perspectives.

————————————————-

David Wicock’s Divine Cosmos site has gone dark. No updates, no upcoming events, no David.

Have all the Blue Chicken folks have gone silent?

https://divinecosmos.com

[Chris]

Thanks! Your post and perspective is why I hang out at “woo-woo” sites like TOT as I feel there is a bit of truth in almost all perspectives.

————————————————-

David Wicock’s Divine Cosmos site has gone dark. No updates, no upcoming events, no David.

Have all the Blue Chicken folks have gone silent?

https://divinecosmos.com

Thanks, likewise.

The David Wilcock / Corey Goode / Gaia TV debacle is rather interesting. I'm afraid we have a fox in the hen house situation going on right now...

If you keep lying about stuff and deceiving your audience, eventually the (blue) chickens will come home to roost


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUIXz5HiojA

[Dumpster Diver]

Thanks, likewise.

The David Wilcock / Corey Goode / Gaia TV debacle is rather interesting. I'm afraid we have a fox in the hen house situation going on right now...

If you keep lying about stuff and deceiving your audience, eventually the (blue) chickens will come home to roost


My perspective is: David, Corey and Emery are telling things as they see them. The guys pulling to wool over their eyes are the Agarthians who have a very vested interest in maintaining the time line that results in them occurring. Partial truths everywhere.

[Chris]

My perspective is: David, Corey and Emery are telling things as they see them. The guys pulling to wool over their eyes are the Agarthians who have a very vested interest in maintaining the time line that results in them occurring. Partial truths everywhere.

Those are the ones residing in the Underworld, right? Not exactly a fan here...

I certainly wouldn't put it past them to try and deceive the surface population. That is in fact pretty much all they do. If they exist at all of course. I would still like some concrete proof that they really are down there. Drill, baby, drill...

[Aragorn]

Those are the ones residing in the Underworld, right? Not exactly a fan here...

I certainly wouldn't put it past them to try and deceive the surface population. That is in fact pretty much all they do. If they exist at all of course. I would still like some concrete proof that they really are down there. Drill, baby, drill...

They'll probably hear you drilling down and may thus decide to temporarily relocate from the Hollow Earth to the Flat Earth — probably somewhere near the Antarctic Wall. :p :ttr:

[Dumpster Diver]

Those are the ones residing in the Underworld, right? Not exactly a fan here...

I certainly wouldn't put it past them to try and deceive the surface population. That is in fact pretty much all they do. If they exist at all of course. I would still like some concrete proof that they really are down there. Drill, baby, drill...

Me too. But frankly, I’m not sure any of you are not figments of my fevered imagination, especially The Ewok.


They'll probably hear you drilling down and may thus decide to temporarily relocate from the Hollow Earth to the Flat Earth — probably somewhere near the Antarctic Wall. :p :ttr:

Yeah, I’m still having trouble making the flat earth stuff work. At one point I was playing with alternate geometries, but it just doesn’t play well with much of the Sacred Geometry zoology.

[Dumpster Diver]

I’ve been reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Human-Biofield-Healing-Vibrational/dp/1620552469/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535234040&sr=8-1&keywords=tuning+the+human+biofield+with+eileen+day +mckusick

https://globalfreedommovement.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TuHuBi-1.jpg

And got a set of tuning forks. I had surgery on my eyes about 20 years ago, leaving me with noncoordinating eyes (somewhat wall eyed). These forks seem to be sorting me out.

[Dreamtimer]

I get your point, but it is really a lot more complicated than that. First of all Jews and Khazars are not the same people. Yes, I know about Shlomo Sand and Arthur Koestler, but at this point it is almost impossible to pick apart what really happened to the Khazars, or what percentage of today's Ashkenazim are descended from the medieval Khazar people. According to mainstream History, Hungarians in fact are at least one third Khazar. When our ancestors settled in the Carpathian Basin, they left what was then Khazaria and took four Khazar tribes with them. Seven Magyar and Four Khazar tribes settled here, mixing with populations that were already present, such as Slavs, Romanians, Avars and Germans, to form what is now considered the Hungarian people. It is not known if Hungarian Jews (such as George Soros, Edward Teller, John Von Neumann, etc...) are descended from this medieval Khazar population, but it is unlikely. At the time, in the 9th century, the chieftains of both the Hungarian and Khazar tribes were nominally Jewish, that is they converted to Judaism, for reasons of political expediency. The general population however was not Jewish, they continued following shamanism as their religion, which, having come from Siberia, was not unlike the religious beliefs of native Americans in the US today. In 1000 AD, all inhabitants of the Kingdom of Hungary, which covered a vast area at the time, were forcibly converted to Christianity, including the descendants of the Khazars, whether they followed Judaism at the time or not (unlikely).

Quite separately from the Khazar-Jewish enigma, whatever you may think of that, it is a fact that the vast majority of Oligarchs in Russia that got rich through political connections and the privatisation of state assets, which they obtained for next to nothing, were in fact Jewish. You could say that Putin reigned in these mostly Jewish Oligarchs, but that's not really true, it is more accurate to say that they came to a mutually beneficial agreement and an alliance of sorts. Those that opposed Putin, were jailed, murdered or were exiled, but the ones that stayed on his good side (such as Roman Abramovich, now an Israeli citizen), were allowed to keep their ill-gotten riches.

It gets more complicated still, because Israel has a very strong Russian element to its population. Up to one-third of the population of Israel is made up of ethnic Russians, who mostly moved there after the collapse of the Soviet Union under Israeli right of return laws. It is now widely believed that many of these so-called Russian Jews have almost no actual Jewish ancestry, or if they do, only very tentatively. They are in fact sometimes openly anti-semitic and form a very strong far-right element in Israel itself, being mostly responsible for the hard-right turn of the latest Netanyahu government. He is the most moderate person in that government, almost all of his allies are hard-right ideologues, who often call for the extermination of the Palestinian people and openly refer to them as vermin. There is also an extreme racial hierarchy with Ethiopian Jews for instance clearly treated as second-class citizens.

Since both Netanyahu and Putin are essentially of the far-right and in charge of a population with strong cultural and historical connections to Russia, they have started coming together in recent years. Orbán has been acting as a sort of intermediary, since he has been a close friend of Netanyahu for decades (they help each other a lot politically) and is also quite close to Putin, and now, apparently Trump. All these people are democrats on the surface only, once you dig deeper, the authoritarian tendencies and the far-right ideology becomes obvious. Orbán is a fan of Steve Bannon and Breitbart. Putin is a fan of Alex Jones and Infowars, as is Trump. Roger Stone is almost certainly a Putin operative. There are probably many others we don't know of. There is in fact a growing international right-wing conspiracy to usurp democracy and overturn the post-war Western Liberal Order. This is a real thing and a real threat. Unfortunately the alt-right and much of the alternative research scene has been co-opted by this movement and they are toppling governments and getting into power one country after another. Austria and Italy were just the latest examples.

As for Putin, he may be tough and strong, but he is also a crook and the leader of a vast crime and spy network that is utterly ruthless and murders people in its way as a matter of course. Netanyahu, Trump and Orbán cannot do this yet, as there is still a semblance of democracy and the rule of law in their countries, but who knows how long this will last. Hungary is already far gone in the direction of becoming a right-wing dictatorship, and I'm afraid the US isn't far behind on current form. It is in the interests of Putin to accelerate this process, a sort of alt-right coup and the consequences could be quite dire. It is not too late to turn this around, but it is rather disheartening that most people aren't aware that this is even happening. It is even more disturbing from my perspective, that what I consider my intellectual and ideological brethren, the alternative and conspiracy research community, is not only cheering this process on, but is a major part of the problem and helping this right-wing globalist dictatorship become a reality.

Thanks for the post. It puts a recent video I posted in perspective. And I'm kinda depressed. I've seen this happening for a long time and am generally met with deaf ears when I raise concerns.

[Dumpster Diver]

Americans need to be taken down a peg or two...way too arrogant...

[palooka's revenge]

Thanks for the post. It puts a recent video I posted in perspective. And I'm kinda depressed. I've seen this happening for a long time and am generally met with deaf ears when I raise concerns.

yup yup yup to that post too. 'n could u post that vid again please? i'm depressed too but i'm kinda interested too. thx in advance...

[Elen]

They'll probably hear you drilling down and may thus decide to temporarily relocate from the Hollow Earth to the Flat Earth — probably somewhere near the Antarctic Wall. :p :ttr:

That cracked me up :ha:.

[Dreamtimer]

This is the video (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/8857-Trump-Illusion-Mist-and-Bought?p=841998998&viewfull=1#post841998998) I was referring to.

[palooka's revenge]

thank you...

[Maggie]

I’ve been reading this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Human-Biofield-Healing-Vibrational/dp/1620552469/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1535234040&sr=8-1&keywords=tuning+the+human+biofield+with+eileen+day +mckusick

https://globalfreedommovement.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TuHuBi-1.jpg

And got a set of tuning forks. I had surgery on my eyes about 20 years ago, leaving me with noncoordinating eyes (somewhat wall eyed). These forks seem to be sorting me out.

That is really intriguing. I would love your description.

[Dumpster Diver]

Posting this to get any comment. I used to really like McCain. Researching the truth behind these remarks:

https://grrrgraphics.com/ten-reasons-not-to-mourn-mccain/

https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/mccain_down_in_flames.jpg

[Dreamtimer]

McCain recently expressed regrets over how he handled controversy around the Confederate flag.

He helped to set us on the path to Trump with Palin. Her selection excited the base that would become Trump's.

As to what direction he's going in...my guess is he'll be coming back. He'll want another go at being an earthling.

[Dreamtimer]

Dang. I just started to read the text that goes with the cartoon. I didn't know about the plane and the bombs and the resulting deaths. Helps to have parents in high places. Sure does.

It's a wonder he graduated with rule-breaking and bad grades...and it helps to have parents in high places.

McCain was apparently like Gingrich who served divorce papers to his wife while she was in the hospital with cancer.

[Dumpster Diver]

More on deaths/attacks at UFO conferences...

...we really are under attack, folks. Stay home and post cute Ewok pics at TOT.

http://www.theeventchronicle.com/editors-pick/after-3-deaths-at-international-ufo-congress-in-february-2018-concerns-raised-about-june-2018-contact-in-the-desert-and-vancouver-bc-et-disclosure-conferences/

http://cdn2.theeventchronicle.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/ufo-conference.jpg

[Dumpster Diver]

A wrap up of early Alt-world deaths to 1997:

http://www.metatech.org/wp/ufos/is-someone-killing-our-ufo-sightings-investigators/

[Dumpster Diver]

Got a half million? Give it to these guys and you’ll get more:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0Vif3bvqaKo/Urf9upgiguI/AAAAAAAAARA/nfoHpr6YrvA/s1600/King+Midas%2527s+golden+touch.JPG

http://gtgoldentouch.com/home/

These clowns are building a pavilion on 5 acres in the Sedona area of Arizona. The locals are getting enraged over the whole thing.

[Emil El Zapato]

Posting this to gat any comment. I used to really like McCain. Researching the truth behind these remarks:

https://grrrgraphics.com/ten-reasons-not-to-mourn-mccain/

https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/mccain_down_in_flames.jpg

Here's a comment: b*llsh*t. Plenty of reasons to dislike any Republican...but let's try to keep it real. Trump supporting propagandists really are deplorables.

[Dreamtimer]

Here's a bit about McCain's funeral:

Very short anecdote:


GF and I were discussing Sen. McCain’s memorial service yesterday and the president’s pointed disinvitation.

”That’s letting him off easy,” she said.

”How do you mean?” I asked.

”If McCain had really wanted to hurt him, he would have instructed that Trump be invited to attend, but not allowed to speak. Can you imagine him sitting for two hours, having to listen to George Bush and Barack Obama praise John McCain? He’d probably stroke out right there in the cathedral.”

Remind me never to piss off this woman.

[palooka's revenge]

good point gladys! and... contrary to how many likely see the 'dis-invite' as, a 'get back' move on mccain's part, it was actually a move inspired by compassion for a man despite that man continues to demonstrate he deserves little of...

[Dumpster Diver]

Dang. I just started to read the text that goes with the cartoon. I didn't know about the plane and the bombs and the resulting deaths. Helps to have parents in high places. Sure does.

It's a wonder he graduated with rule-breaking and bad grades...and it helps to have parents in high places.

McCain was apparently like Gingrich who served divorce papers to his wife while she was in the hospital with cancer.

McCain’s Dad and Granddad were Academy Admirals. When that happens, you get a ton of leaway. Regular folks (like me) could not even get in, much less stay in with similar poor behavior.

[palooka's revenge]

McCain’s Dad and Granddad were Academy Admirals. When that happens, you get a ton of leaway. Regular folks (like me) could not even get in, much less stay in with similar poor behavior.

How often does it happen that those who have questionable pasts hidden ‘mongst the bones way back in the darkness of their closet get eulogized with such glowing accolades?

Every damn time, yes?

And hey, I want to acknowledge credit where credit may be due in this current case. We’ve all seen, over and over, the man with his thumb down and the disgusting rhetoric he connects with the motion. The clip, no thanks to our media, loops and loops and loops ad nauseum.

But maybe, just maybe, that “10 reasons” piece Dumpy linked up top is reasonably accurate. And maybe, just maybe, the man knew. Such knowing does not excuse the disgusting nature of how he went about displaying it. He’s more likely is just using what may be fact and twisting it for his own personal, nefarious agendas.

But it is possible that he knew and I wanted to acknowledge that at least.

And so, we are left to do tons of research or to, simply, feel it. For the truth of the matter I mean. Did this behavior and these actions and results on the part of McCain happen as its being presented by this who or whatever, painting a completely different picture than we are being led to believe? And hey, we can say the same for the trumpster, yes? Despite the fact that he displays behaviors and personality disorders considered clinically psychotic, lots of info is being forwarded by extremes coming from all sorts of dif directions and all points in between as to the nature of his intentions.

That’s not any dif than it is right here on TOT is it? I read. Then maybe I reply. Forwarding an opin or some such. And I can even be so brash as to offer some of that as gospel, as I know it to be for me. Is there a hidden agenda there? Well, there is an agenda and that is to share my experiences with you all. And, consciously at least, the intent is altruistic with no strings attached. And hopefully, presented in a way that isn’t preachy. If anything, take what U need and leave the rest.

But then, there is the subconscious, ya’know. So maybe some of those ideas and opinions are not so altruistic. Maybe, just maybe, there are nefarious agendas running in me as well. A whole lot more of me is operating on the subconscious layers of the cake than is conscious. Such is the result when one goes thru lifetime after lifetime not learning the understandings being presented in experiences resulting in, among other things, consciousness atrophy. Iow, loss of consciousness.

Well, according to me, I can feel for that.

But I also know this… I can be purddy damn good at fooling myself!

Anyway, consider this an open invitation to call me on my shit should any of U find such a calling in order. I would appreciate it and, thanks in advance… p

[Dumpster Diver]

Palooka: everyone has to walk their own karmic path to discovering their own truth. Not everyone is ready for a lot of this stuff. I find just putting out info as a possibility is good. Mearly to consider things as being even slightly possible opens doors.

I think calling anyone on “their shit” is poor form. Judging anyone is not cool. But calling yourself on your own shit is good.

[palooka's revenge]

Palooka: everyone has to walk their own karmic path to discovering their own truth. Not everyone is ready for a lot of this stuff. I find just putting out info as a possibility is good. Mearly to consider things as being even slightly possible opens doors.

I think calling anyone on “their shit” is poor form. Judging anyone is not cool. But calling yourself on your own shit is good.

calling myself on my own shit is the objective. i just need all the help i can get my friend. hopefully, not all observations are no more than judgements.

[Dumpster Diver]

Haters over at the kool-aid stand going after Teresa Yanaros:

http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104052-So-Divine-Frequency

I watch her channel occasionally, but find not enough info to keep my interest.

I still think the entire Blue Chicken crowd to has been buffaloed by the Agarthians...

...and since DW, CG, and EM(?) is off Gaia TV and attendance is very down at the conferences due to energy weapons being used on participants and folks in the audience, how are they making money to live? Where are they anyway? DW in particular has not said anything in well over a month and no new conferences are being organized with his participation. His URL is basically dark...

[Dumpster Diver]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/09/f5/dc/09f5dc3da729635b6ea73345f154657a.jpg

[Dumpster Diver]

https://whyevolutionistrue.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/far-side.jpeg

This one reminds me of Ginger, our departed kitty....

[Maggie]

Think this is appropriate here... a good reminder found on PA.

NbwVl-_nKNU

[Dreamtimer]

This is for you, Dumpy. Or it could go in the chaos thread...

https://images.dailykos.com/images/583280/story_image/TMW2018-09-05color.png?1535640126

[Emil El Zapato]

Think this is appropriate here... a good reminder found on PA.

NbwVl-_nKNU

this is on youtube tv....I've been trying to avoid watching it because....well, because. I'm watching it now. :)


Ben Carson..."homesexuality is curable, take prisoners, they go in straight and come out homos"

Comedian: "Carson went in a neurosurgeon and came out an idiot"

Question:
Can people govern themselves? We are all emotional children, we need guidance to avoid killing each other.

[Chris]

Since we were discussing Putin and Mc Cain earlier, I really wanted to post this essay from Dmitry Orlov on Mc Cain. I really like his dark Russian humour and almost no one knows both Russia and the US as intimately as he does. He has the advantage of being an Engineer, an expert in high-energy physics, a linguist (he created a new writing system for English, which is catching on) and an excellent author and essayist in his own right.

http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2018/08/a-senator-masquerading-as-gas-station.html

A Senator Masquerading as a Gas Station

John McCain is dead, and many people are celebrating whereas they should be sad. He wasn’t a friend of mankind—he was its enemy, but a really bad one. But with such grossly incompetent enemies—who needs friends?

McCain did a great deal to destroy America. He devoted his entire lifetime to American destruction. To start with, he was quite effective as a protester against America’s genocidal war on the people of Vietnam. Other Americans just marched around ineffectually, waving banners and shouting antiwar slogans, but not McCain! His own father had a lot to do with starting that war, but McCain made up for that by destroying 26 American war planes. That’s quite something! If every American flyer crashed as many planes, countless innocent lives would have been saved.

Of course, he could have done even better—and he did try. He almost managed to destroy the US aircraft carrier Forrestal by setting it ablaze. To top off his illustrious military career, he surrendered to the enemy and spent five years in a Vietnamese prison. This made him a hero—in Americans’ eyes only, while the rest of the world saw in him a murderer of Vietnamese children.

His “martyrdom” as a POW helped pave his way to a political career, first in Congress, then in the Senate. During his obscenely long career in national politics, McCain did what he could to make American “democracy” look like a complete joke and to hasten America’s collapse. This, by the way, wasn’t a tall order: American “democracy” had long been a cesspool—a playground for lobbyists and political technologists based on a fully gerrymandered system of fake elections. But he did his thing, and is therefore twice the hero.

Defecating into the cesspool of American politics doesn’t alter its chemistry much, but McCain pushed the limits here as well. If only he and the native genius that is Sara Palin had won the Presidency! This surely would have hastened American collapse by quite a substantial amount, bringing his life’s work to fruition. This was perhaps his greatest failing: he turned out to be a traitor to his own friends and a faithful servant to his political enemies. He shut down his electoral campaign two weeks before the election. Then he did whatever he could to kiss up to Obama and helped wreck the repeal of Obamacare. McCain deserves to have a gigantic sausage-shaped obelisk erected in his honor, made of the same lumpy, brown material that he was so full of throughout his political career.

Internationally, McCain was a stellar performer when it came to meddling in the affairs of other nations, often in ways that helped undermine America’s standing in the world. Whenever he visited a foreign country, the likelihood of civil war breaking out there went up by a notch, sometimes by two. He always had a warm place in his heart for terrorists—be they Ukrainian neo-Nazis or the homicidal maniacs of the Islamic Caliphate (a.k.a. ISIS). He managed to perform in spite of not being very smart: in 2013 he published an article on the website Pravda.ru, thinking that it was Russia’s main newspaper (which was at that point two decades defunct).

He was one of the prime architects of the Ukrainian government’s “anti-terrorist operation” against its own citizens in the east of the country. His actions helped assure American defeat and Syrian victory in Syria and set the Ukrainian government he had helped install in 2014 on a course for self-destruction. Russia owes him a debt of gratitude for its reunification with Crimea after its two lost decades in the Ukrainian wilderness. He was also a champion of America’s own self-destruction through national bankruptcy, always being in favor of its profligate, fantastically corrupt and otherwise ineffectual defense spending.

His crowning achievement was his successful push for anti-Russian sanctions. They made it very difficult for Russian government officials to appear serious and resist the urge to say “May we have some more sanctions, please?” Thanks to these sanctions, Russia has moved rapidly toward achieving food security and has become one of the world’s major agricultural exporters; it has achieved or will soon achieve complete self-sufficiency in defense and in many other industrial sectors; and it is quite far along in making itself independent of the US dollar and of Western finance.

The effect of the sanctions in simultaneously driving down both the ruble and the Russian stock market has allowed the Russian government to sell dollars high and to buy up Russian industrial stocks low, effectively re-nationalizing Russian industry at bargain-basement prices, shifting the share of its government ownership from around 16% to at least 65% while squeezing out Western financial interests. The profits that would have otherwise been pocketed by Western investors are now flooding into the Russian treasury, to be spent on health, education, housing, roads and bridges and so on. McCain, you socialist you!

McCain also had a wonderful talent for being not just wrong but exactly wrong, as in the exact opposite of right. He called Russia “a gas station masquerading as a country.” That was great for Russia, because Russia was at the time a country masquerading as a gas station, to buy itself the time it needed to rebuild and rearm. Now that it has done so, the mask can come off, and Russia is most grateful to McCain for having given it plenty of cover just at the time when it most needed it.

It is a sad moment now that McCain’s untimely demise has sent him off to an eternity in Hell, because he didn’t get to finish his life’s work: destroying the United States. Nevertheless, we should call it a job well done, for the course on which he helped set the country is now unalterable. Even if he is replaced in his Senate seat by someone actually competent and able to act in his nation’s interest, this won’t alter its course by much, and certainly will not reverse it. Let us now observe a minute of silence in honor of John McCain, for upon his passing the American Collapse Party has lost a true leader.

[Emil El Zapato]

For Whatever Its Worth...

There is likely much truth to all this...The 26 planes is a myth, though

FactCheck.org (I don't want to provide FredSixPack any 'ammunition') :) Though I hope it would be obvious that I didn't write this...for better or for worser... :)

Q: Did McCain crash five planes? Did he cause the 1967 Forrestal fire?

A: No. Chain e-mails and Internet postings that make that claim are mistaken. One crash was found to be his fault, but the Navy commended his piloting skills.


FULL QUESTION
Is the information below true? I have heard that McCain crashed five planes. In searching the web I found this information. It was located at [DELETED] Thank you for more information.

FULL ANSWER
Update, Oct. 12: We have further updated this article to include details from newly released Navy records of an investigation that found McCain’s first crash was due to pilot error, and not, as McCain has stated, an engine failure. The L.A. Times story also pinpointed the dates of early incidents more closely, and we have rewritten and re-ordered some sections to reflect this new information.

Update, Sept 19: This item was originally posted Sept. 5, 2008. We have updated it to include additional details of the 1967 Forrestal disaster from official documents, which differ from McCain’s own, widely accepted recollection. We have also included McCain’s admission of “daredevil clowning” in an accident that did not result in loss of his plane.

We have had numerous questions about this widely circulated claim. Some say McCain “lost” five planes, others that he “crashed” five planes. All offer this alleged “fact” as evidence that he was a bad pilot. All are incorrect.

McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be McCain’s fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause. A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain’s or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.

A fifth alleged “crash” turns out to be a misinterpretation of a flight accident that did not result in the loss of the aircraft. McCain admitted to causing that incident through “daredevil clowning” but returned safely.

‘Superb Airmanship’
None of these incidents prevented McCain from winning regular promotions and being assigned additional flight duty. The Navy praised his “aggressiveness and skillful airmanship” when awarding him the Navy Commendation Medal for an attack Oct. 18, 1967, on a shipyard in Haiphong, North Vietnam, prior to his capture. The Navy also commended his “superb airmanship” in awarding him the Distinguished Flying Cross for a bombing attack on a Hanoi power plant Oct. 26, 1967. His plane was hit by a surface-to-air missile on that mission, but he “continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs over the target” before being forced to eject, according to the official citation.

The Navy has released and posted copies of McCain’s several medal citations and commendations. We have not seen any similar release of official reports of his accidents, or of his fitness reports as a young officer. However, we do have accounts of the incidents both from McCain himself and from his biographer, Robert Timberg, a former White House correspondent for the Baltimore Sun, and now editor of the U.S. Naval Institute’s magazine, Proceedings. Timberg’s award-winning book, “The Nightingale’s Song,” tells the story of McCain and four members of his Naval Academy class who later rose to prominence. It was published in 1995. McCain’s book “Faith of my Fathers” was published in 1999.

Two Crashes, and ‘Daredevil Clowning’
First Crash, March 12, 1960: This took place while McCain, a young, unmarried officer not long out of the Naval Academy, was in advanced flight training at Corpus Christi, Texas. Timberg and McCain both give the cause as engine failure, but a Navy investigation blamed McCain’s inattention to altitude.

McCain, 1999 (pp155-156): I crashed a plane in Corpus Christi Bay one Saturday morning. The engine quit while I was practicing landings. … I barely managed to get the canopy open and swim to the surface. … I took a few painkillers and hit the sack to rest my aching back for a few hours. … I was out carousing, injured back and all, later that evening.

Timberg’s account agrees, but Navy records do not. According to a Naval Aviation Safety Center report, obtained by the Los Angeles Times, investigators determined that the engine did not quit, and McCain was to blame:

Los Angeles Times, Oct. 6, 2008: Cockpit instruments that froze on impact showed the engine was still producing power. When water quenched the exhaust stack, it preserved a bright blue color, showing that the engine was still hot. And an aviator behind McCain reported that the engine was producing the black smoke characteristic of Skyraiders.

Investigators determined that McCain was watching instruments in his cockpit that indicated the position of his landing gear and had lost track of his altitude and speed.

The report concluded: “In the opinion of the board, the pilot’s preoccupation in the cockpit … coupled with the use of a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn were the primary causes of this accident.”

“Clowning” in Spain, about December 1961: Those who claim McCain lost five planes – when they bother to give specific citations at all – point to an incident described by McCain, and also in Timberg’s book, as happening on one of McCain’s deployments to the Mediterranean. The L.A. Times put the date of the incident as “around December 1961,” while McCain was on a training mission flying from the USS Intrepid.

Timberg, 1995 (p. 94): His professional growth, though reasonably steady, had its troubled moments. Flying low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines, which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral. The tale has gotten better with age. These days they talk about the day McCain turned the lights out in Spain.

McCain described it this way in “Faith of My Fathers,” which was published four years after Timberg’s account:

McCain, 1999 (p. 159): There were occasional setbacks in my efforts to round out my Navy profile. My reputation was certainly not enhanced when I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident.

The L.A. Times, which interviewed others who were in McCain’s squadron at the time, reports that he returned to the carrier with 10 feet of power line trailing from his plan, and with a severed oil line. But while McCain himself admits this incident was cause by his own “daredevil clowning,” he landed safely and did not lose the aircraft. McCain’s detractors should scratch that “crash” off their list.

Despite the incident in Spain, and the earlier finding that McCain was to blame for the Corpus Christi crash, McCain was promoted to full lieutenant on June 1, 1962.

Second crash, Nov. 28 1965: By this time Lt. McCain was stationed at Meridian, Mississippi, and was newly married to his first wife, Carol. McCain had flown to Philadelphia to attend an Army-Navy football game with his parents and was bringing back Christmas presents for the family in the baggage compartment of his plane. His jet engine quit over the Chesapeake Bay.

McCain, 1999 (p. 172): Somewhere between the Eastern Shore of Maryland and Norfolk, Virginia, as I was preparing to come in and refuel, my engine flamed out, and I had to eject at a thousand feet. The Christmas gifts were lost with my airplane.

Biographer Timberg gives additional details:

Timberg, 1995 (pp 95-96): [He] had just begun his descent over unpopulated tidal terrain when the engine died. “I’ve got a flame-out,” he radioed. He went through the standard relight procedures three times. At one thousand feet, he ejected, landing on the deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees. … The Navy classified it as a “routine ejection.”

The L.A. Times obtained records of the investigation of this crash, giving a somewhat different picture but ultimately blaming engine failure:

Los Angeles Times, Oct. 8, 2008: In a report dated Jan. 18, 1966, the Naval Aviation Safety Center said it could not determine the cause of the accident or corroborate McCain’s account of an explosion in the engine. A close examination of the engine found “no discrepancies which would have caused or contributed to engine failure or malfunction.” . . . About two weeks after issuing its report, the safety center revised its findings and said the accident resulted from the failure or malfunction of an “undetermined component of the engine.”

A little more than a year later McCain was promoted to lieutenant commander on Jan. 1, 1967.

The Forrestal Disaster, July 29, 1967
At the time of this incident Lt. Cdr. McCain already had flown several bombing missions over North Vietnam from the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal. As he was in his A-4 Skyhawk, loaded with two, 1,000-pound bombs and waiting on the carrier deck for his turn to launch, a Zuni missile accidentally fired from another aircraft, swooshed across the carrier deck and struck either McCain’s plane or one next to it.

That triggered a fire and a series of bomb and missile explosions that killed 134 sailors. McCain himself barely escaped alive. He quickly leaped from his plane into the pool of burning jet fuel that immediately surrounded him. About 90 seconds later he was blown 15 feet back when the first bomb “cooked off” and exploded, killing several nearby firefighters.

James M. Caiella has written a scholarly article about the disaster, which appeared in the Fall 2003 issue of Foundation magazine, a publication of the National Naval Aviation Museum, located in Pensacola, Fla. Caiella, who is now associate editor of Proceedings and Naval History magazines, published by the U.S. Naval Institute in Annapolis, generously shared with us copies of some key documents which he obtained from the Navy under the Freedom of Information Act. They include a typed transcript of the sworn testimony that McCain gave less than two weeks after the disaster, on Aug. 5, 1967, and also a written statement he submitted prior to his testimony, describing the first moments of the disaster:

McCain, 1967 statement: I heard a loud explosion and immediate fire all around the airplane . . . Smoke and flame were around the cockpit so I unstrapped . . . and unplugged my oxygen hose, keeping my visor down. I looked to the aft of the airplane and saw nothing but flame and I could see burning fuel in front and around the airplane but it did not look too bad to the forward. I opened the canopy and walked out on the refueling probe and jumped from the end of it, landing just on the edge of the fire and rolled clear.

McCain said that he rushed to help another pilot who had gotten out of his plane and had jumped into the flames and rolled clear, but was still on fire.

McCain, 1967 statement: I started running over towards him and I was near a group of men with a fire hose. As I was about 10 feet from him the first bomb exploded and blew me back about 15 feet. I sat up and saw a lot of bodies near me (some who had been on the hose) and I ran and jumped over the starboard cat walk [under the flight deck].
That first bomb explosion was 90 seconds into the fire. Soon it ignited other bombs and other missiles. Later, on the hangar deck below the main flight deck, McCain said he and another officer, along with “a lot of fine enlisted men,” pushed several bomb carts overboard to keep them away from flaming fuel that was curling down from above. He later “noticed that I had a hole below my left knee with some metal in it, and two small shrapnel cuts in my thigh and shoulder.”

The Forrestal was badly damaged and put out of action for two years. A little more than a month after the disaster, McCain was flying missions from another carrier, the USS Oriskany.

Whose Plane?
McCain has said for years that the missile struck his own plane, and this has been widely accepted. But official documents don’t support that. We now judge it more likely that the missile first struck a plane next to McCain’s and that his own memory of the event has changed in the years since.

In his 1999 book “Faith of My Fathers,” McCain writes:

McCain, 1999 (p. 177): I took my helmet back … and shut the plane’s canopy. In the next instant, a Zuni missile struck the belly fuel tank of my plane, tearing it open, igniting two hundred gallons of fuel that spilled onto the deck, and knocking two of my bombs to the deck.

Author Gregory A. Freeman, in his 2002 book about the disaster, “Sailors to the End,” accepts that it was McCain’s plane that was hit:

Freeman, 2002 (pp 104-105): McCain felt a huge impact as the Zuni rocket tore through his plane on the right side and exited on the left side, ripping open his fuel tank with four hundred gallons of JP5 jet fuel.

The more recent account by James Caiella, however, comes to a different conclusion. Writing in 2003, Caiella points out, correctly, that the official Navy investigation into the disaster – the Manual of the Judge Advocate General Basic Final Investigative Report Concerning the Fire on Board the USS Forrestal (CVA-59) – concluded that the missile struck plane number 405, the A-4 piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White, who was among those killed in the incident. McCain’s plane was number 416, and was next to White’s, one plane forward toward the ship’s bow. Caiella has kindly provided us with official Navy summaries of the investigation documenting this finding. He has also allowed us to reproduce here a portion of a drawing he created, based on the Navy report, to illustrate his article. It shows the positions of the aircraft on deck at the time the fire began.



Copyright 2003 by James M. Caiella. Used with permission. From “1051 Hell,” article in Fall 2003 issue of Foundation, a publication of the National Naval Aviation Museum, Pensacola, Fla. Plane #405 piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White; #416 by Lt. Cdr. John S. McCain


Rear Admiral Forsyth Massey, commander in chief of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet, headed the Navy’s post-disaster investigation, and wrote in a summary that he sent up the chain of command on Sept. 19, 1967:

Rear Adm Massey, Sept. 19, 1967: A review of the voluminous material contained in the Report of Investigation establishes the central fact that a ZUNI rocket was inadvertently fired from an F-4 aircraft (#110) and struck the external fuel tank of an A-4 aircraft (#405) which was clustered in a pack along with other aircraft on the deck of the USS FORRESTAL. This inadvertent firing of the rocket resulted in a raging fire.

Massey makes no reference to McCain or plane number 416. Another summary, written by the Navy’s Judge Advocate General as he forwarded the report to the Chief of Naval Operations, also said the missile “struck A-4 #405” and set off the fire. That summary also says that “A fragment punctured the centerline external fuel tank of another A-4 just aft of the jet blast deflector of catapult #3” That second plane isn’t identified specifically, but McCain’s plane was fifth in line behind the catapults. Caiella says he believes it was plane #310.

We also note that immediately after the disaster, when McCain’s recollection was still fresh, he was by no means certain whose plane had been hit. He said in his typed statement,

McCain, 1967 statement: I was just ready to commence the aileron trim check… when I heard a loud explosion and immediate fire all around the airplane, at first I thought LCDR White’s airplane had exploded or the explosion had occurred beneath my starboard wing due to the proximity of the explosion. I now think that it might have been one aircraft further aft but I am not sure.

McCain also expressed considerable uncertainty when investigators questioned him on Aug. 5 1967, just a week after the fire:

Q: Did you think in your own mind at this point that something had hit your airplane or not?

McCain: Yes, sir. The reason, looking back on it, I think I felt… I would like to add about my testimony, after seeing the bomb go off and the injuries involved, I was a little bit emotionally upset and some of the things that I may remember, I may not remember exactly. But when I saw LCDR Hope on the hangar deck, and I believe you can ask him about this, the first thing I said to him was, ‘Herb, I thought I had killed you.’ So I must have believed that it was from my aircraft at that time. Then I heard so many other stories as to what happened, I didn’t believe it was my aircraft. But at the time, I think, I believed that it was my aircraft or the one right next to it.

We can’t resolve with perfect certainty which version is correct. Film of the disaster taken by a Navy camera cannot decide the matter because it was pointed away from the point of impact at the time the missile fired. By the time the camera swung quickly aft both McCain and White’s planes were enveloped in the spreading flames. (A narrated version has been posted on YouTube.)

Much physical evidence was of course destroyed by the series of bomb explosions that began 90 seconds after the first impact. It is possible that the missile hit White’s plane and that fragments of it also hit McCain’s.

We judge that the missile most likely hit White’s plane, not McCain’s. We base this on the unequivocal finding of the official investigation and the uncertainty that McCain expressed just a week after the event. His memory 32 years later, at the time he published the book, we consider less reliable. In fact, his 1999 version departs from the official report in other respects as well. He writes in his book that his plane carried 200 gallons of fuel, but the official report says the A-4s carried 400 gallons. McCain writes that “two of my bombs” were knocked to the deck, but the Judge Advocate General’s summary mentions only one bomb, a 1000-pounder that “fell onto the deck from A-4 #405,” White’s plane. McCain doesn’t mention bombs falling from his own plane in the testimony and statement he gave immediately after the disaster.

No ‘Wet Start’
A special note is in order here. We have seen some baseless claims that McCain was somehow responsible for the Forrestal disaster. One incorrect but widely quoted theory has him triggering the Zuni missile with the exhaust of his own plane by “wet-starting” – deliberately dumping fuel into the afterburner before starting in order to shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. This is a preposterous notion. For one thing, A-4 jets flew at subsonic speeds and were not equipped with afterburners. According to the Military Analysis Network site maintained by the Federation of American Scientists, the A-4 was powered by a “Single, Pratt & Whitney, J-52-P-408A non-afterburning, turbojet engine.” The manufacturer’s description of the aircraft also describes the powerplant as “One 11,187-pound-thrust P&W J52-P408 engine,” with no mention of an afterburner.

And while pilots tell us that a “wet start” is possible even without an afterburner, the theory fails for another reason. The tail of McCain’s plane was pointed over the side of the carrier and away from other planes at the time, and the F4 Phantom fighter that fired the missile was facing McCain’s plane from the opposite side of the deck, as shown in Caiella’s diagram, in other diagrams, and in Navy film of the fire.

This bogus theory appears to have gotten its start from a report by New York Times reporter R. W. Apple. Jr, who reported on July 31, 1967 – two days after the fire – that the Forrestal’s captain, John K. Beling, believed an “extreme wet start” had created “a thick tongue of flame” that set off the Zuni. Beling did not identify McCain’s plane as the source, however, and said only that the aircraft was “parked near the carrier’s island,” which would have put it far forward and on the opposite side of the flight deck from where McCain’s plane was getting ready to launch. Not usually noted by the conspiracy theorists is that Capt. Beling “repeatedly said that he had been unable fully to sort out the conflicting reports” that circulated on the 5,000-man vessel in the hours after the fire, according to Apple, who also called the wet-start theory “tentative.” In any case, Beling’s early theory was soon dismissed by Navy investigators, who found that the Zuni had been touched off by a stray electrical charge, not by a jet exhaust. Author Freeman summarizes the findings succinctly in in “Sailors to the End:”

Freeman, 2002 (p. 250): The investigation revealed that the rocket (fired) because a freak surge of electricity jumped through the plane’s system at the moment the pilot switched from the outside electrical generator to the plane’s internal power system.

And as Caiella also notes in his account, the investigation found that in the wartime pressure to get planes launched quickly crews had not observed two key safety precautions that could have prevented the stray spike of electricity from firing the rocket. The “pigtail” that connects the plane’s wiring to the missile had been plugged in prematurely, before the plane was on the catapult, and a safety pin that also would have prevented the firing also had been removed.

Freeman has posted an item on his own Web site flatly stating that McCain was in no way responsible for the accident. “McCain was never suspected of causing the fire because investigators determined immediately that the rocket misfired from the other side of the flight deck,” writes Freeman.

Caiella agrees. He told us: “There is no possible way John McCain could have caused the fire on board the Forrestal. … McCain’s only connection with the investigation was as a witness, in both a written deposition shortly after the fire and later in sworn testimony to the board.”

Shot Down
The fourth plane McCain lost was of course the Skyhawk shot down over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967. The previously mentioned official citation describes 15 enemy surface-to-air missiles fired at the attacking U.S. planes and “extremely heavy and accurate antiaircraft fire.” Far from blaming McCain for the loss of his plane, the Navy awarded him, in addition to the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Silver Star for his “conspicuous gallantry” while imprisoned by the North Vietnamese for the nearly five-and-a-half years that followed. Shortly after his release he was promoted again, to full commander.
Sources
Timberg, Robert. The Nightingale’s Song. New York, NY: Simon & Schuster, 1995. McCain, John and Salter, Mark, Faith of my Fathers. NY: Random House 1999.

Vartabedian, Ralph and Serrano, Richard A. “Mishaps mark John McCain’s record as naval aviator” Los Angeles Times 6 Oct 2008 Caiella, James M. “1051 Hell,” Foundation magazine Fall 2003.

Freeman, Gregory A. Sailors to the End. 2002. Federation of American Scientists, Military Analysis Network, “A-4 Skyhawk.” Web site accessed 8 Sept 2008. Boeing Corp. “History: A4D/A-4 Skyhawk Light Attack Bomber.” Web site accessed 8 Sept 2008.

Apple, R.W. Jr., “FORRESTAL TOLL MAY REACH 125; 69 STILL MISSING; Rescue Teams Press Search but Little Hope Remains for the Other Crewmen SHIP WAS NEARLY LOST She Leaves Vietnam Combat Zone for Subic Bay Base –Tales of Heroism Told” New York Times 31 July 1967; A1.

For Whatever Its Worth...

There is likely much truth to all this...The 26 planes is a myth, though

FactCheck.org (I don't want to provide FredSixPack any 'ammunition') :) Though I hope it would be obvious that I didn't write this...for better or for worst... :)

Q: Did McCain crash five planes? Did he cause the 1967 Forrestal fire?

A: No. Chain e-mails and Internet postings that make that claim are mistaken. One crash was found to be his fault, but the Navy commended his piloting skills.


FULL QUESTION
Is the information below true? I have heard that McCain crashed five planes. In searching the web I found this information. It was located at [DELETED] Thank you for more information.

FULL ANSWER
Update, Oct. 12: We have further updated this article to include details from newly released Navy records of an investigation that found McCain’s first crash was due to pilot error, and not, as McCain has stated, an engine failure. The L.A. Times story also pinpointed the dates of early incidents more closely, and we have rewritten and re-ordered some sections to reflect this new information.

Update, Sept 19: This item was originally posted Sept. 5, 2008. We have updated it to include additional details of the 1967 Forrestal disaster from official documents, which differ from McCain’s own, widely accepted recollection. We have also included McCain’s admission of “daredevil clowning” in an accident that did not result in loss of his plane.

We have had numerous questions about this widely circulated claim. Some say McCain “lost” five planes, others that he “crashed” five planes. All offer this alleged “fact” as evidence that he was a bad pilot. All are incorrect.

McCain did lose two Navy aircraft while piloting them. One crash was found to be McCain’s fault, the other due to an engine failure of undetermined cause. A third was destroyed on the deck of the carrier USS Forrestal when a missile fired accidentally from another plane hit either the plane next to McCain’s or, less likely, his own aircraft, triggering a disastrous fire that killed 134 sailors and nearly killed McCain. A fourth plane was lost when he was shot down over North Vietnam on a bombing mission over Hanoi.

A fifth alleged “crash” turns out to be a misinterpretation of a flight accident that did not result in the loss of the aircraft. McCain admitted to causing that incident through “daredevil clowning” but returned safely.

‘Superb Airmanship’
None of these incidents prevented McCain from winning regular promotions and being assigned additional flight duty. The Navy praised his “aggressiveness and skillful airmanship” when awarding him the Navy Commendation Medal for an attack Oct. 18, 1967, on a shipyard in Haiphong, North Vietnam, prior to his capture. The Navy also commended his “superb airmanship” in awarding him the Distinguished Flying Cross for a bombing attack on a Hanoi power plant Oct. 26, 1967. His plane was hit by a surface-to-air missile on that mission, but he “continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs over the target” before being forced to eject, according to the official citation.

The Navy has released and posted copies of McCain’s several medal citations and commendations. We have not seen any similar release of official reports of his accidents, or of his fitness reports as a young officer. However, we do have accounts of the incidents both from McCain himself and from his biographer, Robert Timberg, a former White House correspondent for the Baltimore Sun, and now editor of the U.S. Naval Institute’s magazine, Proceedings. Timberg’s award-winning book, “The Nightingale’s Song,” tells the story of McCain and four members of his Naval Academy class who later rose to prominence. It was published in 1995. McCain’s book “Faith of my Fathers” was published in 1999.

Two Crashes, and ‘Daredevil Clowning’
First Crash, March 12, 1960: This took place while McCain, a young, unmarried officer not long out of the Naval Academy, was in advanced flight training at Corpus Christi, Texas. Timberg and McCain both give the cause as engine failure, but a Navy investigation blamed McCain’s inattention to altitude.

McCain, 1999 (pp155-156): I crashed a plane in Corpus Christi Bay one Saturday morning. The engine quit while I was practicing landings. … I barely managed to get the canopy open and swim to the surface. … I took a few painkillers and hit the sack to rest my aching back for a few hours. … I was out carousing, injured back and all, later that evening.

Timberg’s account agrees, but Navy records do not. According to a Naval Aviation Safety Center report, obtained by the Los Angeles Times, investigators determined that the engine did not quit, and McCain was to blame:

Los Angeles Times, Oct. 6, 2008: Cockpit instruments that froze on impact showed the engine was still producing power. When water quenched the exhaust stack, it preserved a bright blue color, showing that the engine was still hot. And an aviator behind McCain reported that the engine was producing the black smoke characteristic of Skyraiders.

Investigators determined that McCain was watching instruments in his cockpit that indicated the position of his landing gear and had lost track of his altitude and speed.

The report concluded: “In the opinion of the board, the pilot’s preoccupation in the cockpit … coupled with the use of a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn were the primary causes of this accident.”

“Clowning” in Spain, about December 1961: Those who claim McCain lost five planes – when they bother to give specific citations at all – point to an incident described by McCain, and also in Timberg’s book, as happening on one of McCain’s deployments to the Mediterranean. The L.A. Times put the date of the incident as “around December 1961,” while McCain was on a training mission flying from the USS Intrepid.

Timberg, 1995 (p. 94): His professional growth, though reasonably steady, had its troubled moments. Flying low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines, which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral. The tale has gotten better with age. These days they talk about the day McCain turned the lights out in Spain.

McCain described it this way in “Faith of My Fathers,” which was published four years after Timberg’s account:

McCain, 1999 (p. 159): There were occasional setbacks in my efforts to round out my Navy profile. My reputation was certainly not enhanced when I knocked down some power lines while flying too low over southern Spain. My daredevil clowning had cut off electricity to a great many Spanish homes and created a small international incident.

The L.A. Times, which interviewed others who were in McCain’s squadron at the time, reports that he returned to the carrier with 10 feet of power line trailing from his plan, and with a severed oil line. But while McCain himself admits this incident was cause by his own “daredevil clowning,” he landed safely and did not lose the aircraft. McCain’s detractors should scratch that “crash” off their list.

Despite the incident in Spain, and the earlier finding that McCain was to blame for the Corpus Christi crash, McCain was promoted to full lieutenant on June 1, 1962.

Second crash, Nov. 28 1965: By this time Lt. McCain was stationed at Meridian, Mississippi, and was newly married to his first wife, Carol. McCain had flown to Philadelphia to attend an Army-Navy football game with his parents and was bringing back Christmas presents for the family in the baggage compartment of his plane. His jet engine quit over the Chesapeake Bay.

McCain, 1999 (p. 172): Somewhere between the Eastern Shore of Maryland and Norfolk, Virginia, as I was preparing to come in and refuel, my engine flamed out, and I had to eject at a thousand feet. The Christmas gifts were lost with my airplane.

Biographer Timberg gives additional details:

Timberg, 1995 (pp 95-96): [He] had just begun his descent over unpopulated tidal terrain when the engine died. “I’ve got a flame-out,” he radioed. He went through the standard relight procedures three times. At one thousand feet, he ejected, landing on the deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees. … The Navy classified it as a “routine ejection.”

The L.A. Times obtained records of the investigation of this crash, giving a somewhat different picture but ultimately blaming engine failure:

Los Angeles Times, Oct. 8, 2008: In a report dated Jan. 18, 1966, the Naval Aviation Safety Center said it could not determine the cause of the accident or corroborate McCain’s account of an explosion in the engine. A close examination of the engine found “no discrepancies which would have caused or contributed to engine failure or malfunction.” . . . About two weeks after issuing its report, the safety center revised its findings and said the accident resulted from the failure or malfunction of an “undetermined component of the engine.”

A little more than a year later McCain was promoted to lieutenant commander on Jan. 1, 1967.

The Forrestal Disaster, July 29, 1967
At the time of this incident Lt. Cdr. McCain already had flown several bombing missions over North Vietnam from the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal. As he was in his A-4 Skyhawk, loaded with two, 1,000-pound bombs and waiting on the carrier deck for his turn to launch, a Zuni missile accidentally fired from another aircraft, swooshed across the carrier deck and struck either McCain’s plane or one next to it.

That triggered a fire and a series of bomb and missile explosions that killed 134 sailors. McCain himself barely escaped alive. He quickly leaped from his plane into the pool of burning jet fuel that immediately surrounded him. About 90 seconds later he was blown 15 feet back when the first bomb “cooked off” and exploded, killing several nearby firefighters.

James M. Caiella has written a scholarly article about the disaster, which appeared in the Fall 2003 issue of Foundation magazine, a publication of the National Naval Aviation Museum, located in Pensacola, Fla. Caiella, who is now associate editor of Proceedings and Naval History magazines, published by the U.S. Naval Institute in Annapolis, generously shared with us copies of some key documents which he obtained from the Navy under the Freedom of Information Act. They include a typed transcript of the sworn testimony that McCain gave less than two weeks after the disaster, on Aug. 5, 1967, and also a written statement he submitted prior to his testimony, describing the first moments of the disaster:

McCain, 1967 statement: I heard a loud explosion and immediate fire all around the airplane . . . Smoke and flame were around the cockpit so I unstrapped . . . and unplugged my oxygen hose, keeping my visor down. I looked to the aft of the airplane and saw nothing but flame and I could see burning fuel in front and around the airplane but it did not look too bad to the forward. I opened the canopy and walked out on the refueling probe and jumped from the end of it, landing just on the edge of the fire and rolled clear.

McCain said that he rushed to help another pilot who had gotten out of his plane and had jumped into the flames and rolled clear, but was still on fire.

McCain, 1967 statement: I started running over towards him and I was near a group of men with a fire hose. As I was about 10 feet from him the first bomb exploded and blew me back about 15 feet. I sat up and saw a lot of bodies near me (some who had been on the hose) and I ran and jumped over the starboard cat walk [under the flight deck].
That first bomb explosion was 90 seconds into the fire. Soon it ignited other bombs and other missiles. Later, on the hangar deck below the main flight deck, McCain said he and another officer, along with “a lot of fine enlisted men,” pushed several bomb carts overboard to keep them away from flaming fuel that was curling down from above. He later “noticed that I had a hole below my left knee with some metal in it, and two small shrapnel cuts in my thigh and shoulder.”

The Forrestal was badly damaged and put out of action for two years. A little more than a month after the disaster, McCain was flying missions from another carrier, the USS Oriskany.

Whose Plane?
McCain has said for years that the missile struck his own plane, and this has been widely accepted. But official documents don’t support that. We now judge it more likely that the missile first struck a plane next to McCain’s and that his own memory of the event has changed in the years since.

In his 1999 book “Faith of My Fathers,” McCain writes:

McCain, 1999 (p. 177): I took my helmet back … and shut the plane’s canopy. In the next instant, a Zuni missile struck the belly fuel tank of my plane, tearing it open, igniting two hundred gallons of fuel that spilled onto the deck, and knocking two of my bombs to the deck.

Author Gregory A. Freeman, in his 2002 book about the disaster, “Sailors to the End,” accepts that it was McCain’s plane that was hit:

Freeman, 2002 (pp 104-105): McCain felt a huge impact as the Zuni rocket tore through his plane on the right side and exited on the left side, ripping open his fuel tank with four hundred gallons of JP5 jet fuel.

The more recent account by James Caiella, however, comes to a different conclusion. Writing in 2003, Caiella points out, correctly, that the official Navy investigation into the disaster – the Manual of the Judge Advocate General Basic Final Investigative Report Concerning the Fire on Board the USS Forrestal (CVA-59) – concluded that the missile struck plane number 405, the A-4 piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White, who was among those killed in the incident. McCain’s plane was number 416, and was next to White’s, one plane forward toward the ship’s bow. Caiella has kindly provided us with official Navy summaries of the investigation documenting this finding. He has also allowed us to reproduce here a portion of a drawing he created, based on the Navy report, to illustrate his article. It shows the positions of the aircraft on deck at the time the fire began.



Copyright 2003 by James M. Caiella. Used with permission. From “1051 Hell,” article in Fall 2003 issue of Foundation, a publication of the National Naval Aviation Museum, Pensacola, Fla. Plane #405 piloted by Lt. Cdr. Fred White; #416 by Lt. Cdr. John S. McCain


Rear Admiral Forsyth Massey, commander in chief of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet, headed the Navy’s post-disaster investigation, and wrote in a summary that he sent up the chain of command on Sept. 19, 1967:

Rear Adm Massey, Sept. 19, 1967: A review of the voluminous material contained in the Report of Investigation establishes the central fact that a ZUNI rocket was inadvertently fired from an F-4 aircraft (#110) and struck the external fuel tank of an A-4 aircraft (#405) which was clustered in a pack along with other aircraft on the deck of the USS FORRESTAL. This inadvertent firing of the rocket resulted in a raging fire.

Massey makes no reference to McCain or plane number 416. Another summary, written by the Navy’s Judge Advocate General as he forwarded the report to the Chief of Naval Operations, also said the missile “struck A-4 #405” and set off the fire. That summary also says that “A fragment punctured the centerline external fuel tank of another A-4 just aft of the jet blast deflector of catapult #3” That second plane isn’t identified specifically, but McCain’s plane was fifth in line behind the catapults. Caiella says he believes it was plane #310.

We also note that immediately after the disaster, when McCain’s recollection was still fresh, he was by no means certain whose plane had been hit. He said in his typed statement,

McCain, 1967 statement: I was just ready to commence the aileron trim check… when I heard a loud explosion and immediate fire all around the airplane, at first I thought LCDR White’s airplane had exploded or the explosion had occurred beneath my starboard wing due to the proximity of the explosion. I now think that it might have been one aircraft further aft but I am not sure.

McCain also expressed considerable uncertainty when investigators questioned him on Aug. 5 1967, just a week after the fire:

Q: Did you think in your own mind at this point that something had hit your airplane or not?

McCain: Yes, sir. The reason, looking back on it, I think I felt… I would like to add about my testimony, after seeing the bomb go off and the injuries involved, I was a little bit emotionally upset and some of the things that I may remember, I may not remember exactly. But when I saw LCDR Hope on the hangar deck, and I believe you can ask him about this, the first thing I said to him was, ‘Herb, I thought I had killed you.’ So I must have believed that it was from my aircraft at that time. Then I heard so many other stories as to what happened, I didn’t believe it was my aircraft. But at the time, I think, I believed that it was my aircraft or the one right next to it.

We can’t resolve with perfect certainty which version is correct. Film of the disaster taken by a Navy camera cannot decide the matter because it was pointed away from the point of impact at the time the missile fired. By the time the camera swung quickly aft both McCain and White’s planes were enveloped in the spreading flames. (A narrated version has been posted on YouTube.)

Much physical evidence was of course destroyed by the series of bomb explosions that began 90 seconds after the first impact. It is possible that the missile hit White’s plane and that fragments of it also hit McCain’s.

We judge that the missile most likely hit White’s plane, not McCain’s. We base this on the unequivocal finding of the official investigation and the uncertainty that McCain expressed just a week after the event. His memory 32 years later, at the time he published the book, we consider less reliable. In fact, his 1999 version departs from the official report in other respects as well. He writes in his book that his plane carried 200 gallons of fuel, but the official report says the A-4s carried 400 gallons. McCain writes that “two of my bombs” were knocked to the deck, but the Judge Advocate General’s summary mentions only one bomb, a 1000-pounder that “fell onto the deck from A-4 #405,” White’s plane. McCain doesn’t mention bombs falling from his own plane in the testimony and statement he gave immediately after the disaster.

No ‘Wet Start’
A special note is in order here. We have seen some baseless claims that McCain was somehow responsible for the Forrestal disaster. One incorrect but widely quoted theory has him triggering the Zuni missile with the exhaust of his own plane by “wet-starting” – deliberately dumping fuel into the afterburner before starting in order to shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. This is a preposterous notion. For one thing, A-4 jets flew at subsonic speeds and were not equipped with afterburners. According to the Military Analysis Network site maintained by the Federation of American Scientists, the A-4 was powered by a “Single, Pratt & Whitney, J-52-P-408A non-afterburning, turbojet engine.” The manufacturer’s description of the aircraft also describes the powerplant as “One 11,187-pound-thrust P&W J52-P408 engine,” with no mention of an afterburner.

And while pilots tell us that a “wet start” is possible even without an afterburner, the theory fails for another reason. The tail of McCain’s plane was pointed over the side of the carrier and away from other planes at the time, and the F4 Phantom fighter that fired the missile was facing McCain’s plane from the opposite side of the deck, as shown in Caiella’s diagram, in other diagrams, and in Navy film of the fire.

This bogus theory appears to have gotten its start from a report by New York Times reporter R. W. Apple. Jr, who reported on July 31, 1967 – two days after the fire – that the Forrestal’s captain, John K. Beling, believed an “extreme wet start” had created “a thick tongue of flame” that set off the Zuni. Beling did not identify McCain’s plane as the source, however, and said only that the aircraft was “parked near the carrier’s island,” which would have put it far forward and on the opposite side of the flight deck from where McCain’s plane was getting ready to launch. Not usually noted by the conspiracy theorists is that Capt. Beling “repeatedly said that he had been unable fully to sort out the conflicting reports” that circulated on the 5,000-man vessel in the hours after the fire, according to Apple, who also called the wet-start theory “tentative.” In any case, Beling’s early theory was soon dismissed by Navy investigators, who found that the Zuni had been touched off by a stray electrical charge, not by a jet exhaust. Author Freeman summarizes the findings succinctly in in “Sailors to the End:”

Freeman, 2002 (p. 250): The investigation revealed that the rocket (fired) because a freak surge of electricity jumped through the plane’s system at the moment the pilot switched from the outside electrical generator to the plane’s internal power system.

And as Caiella also notes in his account, the investigation found that in the wartime pressure to get planes launched quickly crews had not observed two key safety precautions that could have prevented the stray spike of electricity from firing the rocket. The “pigtail” that connects the plane’s wiring to the missile had been plugged in prematurely, before the plane was on the catapult, and a safety pin that also would have prevented the firing also had been removed.

Freeman has posted an item on his own Web site flatly stating that McCain was in no way responsible for the accident. “McCain was never suspected of causing the fire because investigators determined immediately that the rocket misfired from the other side of the flight deck,” writes Freeman.

Caiella agrees. He told us: “There is no possible way John McCain could have caused the fire on board the Forrestal. … McCain’s only connection with the investigation was as a witness, in both a written deposition shortly after the fire and later in sworn testimony to the board.”

Shot Down
The fourth plane McCain lost was of course the Skyhawk shot down over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967. The previously mentioned official citation describes 15 enemy surface-to-air missiles fired at the attacking U.S. planes and “extremely heavy and accurate antiaircraft fire.” Far from blaming McCain for the loss of his plane, the Navy awarded him, in addition to the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Silver Star for his “conspicuous gallantry” while imprisoned by the North Vietnamese for the nearly five-and-a-half years that followed. Shortly after his release he was promoted again, to full commander.
Sources
Timberg, Robert. The Nightingale’s Song. New York, NY: Simon & Schuster, 1995. McCain, John and Salter, Mark, Faith of my Fathers. NY: Random House 1999.

Vartabedian, Ralph and Serrano, Richard A. “Mishaps mark John McCain’s record as naval aviator” Los Angeles Times 6 Oct 2008 Caiella, James M. “1051 Hell,” Foundation magazine Fall 2003.

Freeman, Gregory A. Sailors to the End. 2002. Federation of American Scientists, Military Analysis Network, “A-4 Skyhawk.” Web site accessed 8 Sept 2008. Boeing Corp. “History: A4D/A-4 Skyhawk Light Attack Bomber.” Web site accessed 8 Sept 2008.

Apple, R.W. Jr., “FORRESTAL TOLL MAY REACH 125; 69 STILL MISSING; Rescue Teams Press Search but Little Hope Remains for the Other Crewmen SHIP WAS NEARLY LOST She Leaves Vietnam Combat Zone for Subic Bay Base –Tales of Heroism Told” New York Times 31 July 1967; A1.

[Dumpster Diver]

Maybe we need to change the thread name to:

“Let’s all sh!t on McCain”

[Emil El Zapato]

Maybe we need to change the thread name to:

“Let’s all sh!t on McCain”

yeah, I'm not sure I understand the point of all this. 'Trump propaganda?' 'Q'...pfaw...or sumpin' like that... :)

[Chris]

Like I said before Dmitry Orlov does have a strong anti-US and pro-Russia bias, so obviously take all that he writes with a grain of salt. Knowing this, I still find his writing very valuable. His premise is that the US and much of the industrialised world with it is going to collapse in the foreseeable future, much like the Soviet Union did. He was a witness to the collapse of the SU and has analysed it very carefully mostly from an engineering and physics background. He has made a similar detailed analysis of the US and has identified the similarities and differences in collapse-preparedness and how a collapse is likely to play out in the US (and much of the Western Industrialised World) vis-a-vis the erstwhile SU. He calls the lack of preparedness on the side of the West the collapse gap, as his contention is that rich countries are much less prepared for a coming collapse than poor ones, and particularly the SU did, which was exceptionally well-prepared, inadvertently, and went through the process without totally destroying itself. His essays and books are well worth reading if you really are interested in how the collapse of a civilisation might look like and how you might prepare yourself for such an eventuality.


Maybe he was a bit harsh on Mc Cain, but then Mc Cain was a sworn enemy of Russia, so you can't really blame him for coming down on him hard. I don't share Orlov's pro-Russian and Anti-American bias, but it is worth examining other points of view to get a full picture of what's going on in the world.

[Fred Steeves]

FactCheck.org (I don't want to provide FredSixPack any 'ammunition') :) Though I hope it would be obvious that I didn't write this...for better or for worser... :)

I'm going to use your buddy Wade (my choir of 2) Frazier as an example, while sticking with the John McCain theme:

Example A: There is much to be said about John McCain: From prisoner of war, fighter pilot, senator, proud patriot, loving husband and father, to a man who was a war monger and supporter of ISIS. Life is complicated, and we wear many hats along the way. Like him I've worn many hats, and while some things I've done I'm still proud of looking back upon to this day, others I can only hang my head in shame about.

The only saving grace is the ever present possibility of using those not so proud moments as lessons of what never to do again, to learn from them, to morph misdeeds into wisdom. It's all a matter of how we handle the cards we are dealt, and do we learn from our mistakes.

My journey is difficult to believe. Even I sometimes look back on my life and find it hard to believe, but I was there for it.

Example B: There is much to be said about John McCain: From war hero, prisoner of war, fighter pilot, senator, proud patriot, loving husband and father, to a man who was a war monger and supporter of ISIS. Life is complicated, and we wear many hats along the way. Like him I've worn many hats, and while some things I've done I'm still proud of looking back upon to this day, others I can only hang my head in shame about.

The only saving grace is the ever present possibility of using those not so proud moments as lessons of what never to do again, to learn from them, to morph misdeeds into wisdom. It's all a matter of how we handle the cards we are dealt, and do we learn from our mistakes.

I think your buddy Wade Frazier summed it up best:


My journey is difficult to believe. Even I sometimes look back on my life and find it hard to believe, but I was there for it.
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10672-WADE-FRAZIER-A-Healed-Planet&p=1245574&highlight=#post1245574


Example A is pretty much what you did in that other thread,
https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12480-Guns-4-Peace-Really/page3?p=842000137#post842000137

and why I called you out on it.

Example B is the way it should be done, and you should be well aware of that by now.

[Dumpster Diver]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjfAnrp77I&feature=youtu.be

The Chicken Cordon Bleu crowd has emerged...

...they seem to be running things themselves, or at least CG’s patron, Roger Ramjet (Ramseur?) is paying for things ( mentioned in the talk).

...and here I was worried the pose poor guys were off starving in some cave, being hunted down by Darth Hatman’s Kool-aid stand crowd...:cry:

———————-

Btw, I tried every which way to make the video embed properly...my only conclusion is: TOT’s interface HATES iPads :ireful:

[Aragorn]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjfAnrp77I&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjfAnrp77I

There, I fixed it for you. ;)


Btw, I tried every which way to make the video embed properly...my only conclusion is: TOT’s interface HATES iPads :ireful:

I strongly suspect that the problem is to be found between the iPad and the chair. :p

[modwiz]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5vjfAnrp77I&feature=youtu.be

The Chicken Cordon Bleu crowd has emerged...

...they seem to be running things themselves, or at least CG’s patron, Roger Ramjet (Ramseur?) is paying for things ( mentioned in the talk).

...and here I was worried the pose poor guys were off starving in some cave, being hunted down by Darth Hatman’s Kool-aid stand crowd...:cry:

———————-

Btw, I tried every which way to make the video embed properly...my only conclusion is: TOT’s interface HATES iPads :ireful:

Why do you post garbage like this? Maybe your difficulty posting it was Divine Intervention.:fpalm:

[Fred Steeves]

Why do you post garbage like this?

ROFL!

[Dumpster Diver]

Why do you post garbage like this? Maybe your difficulty posting it was Divine Intervention.:fpalm:

Probably the same reason I’m a diabetic eating chocolate with hazelnuts...I know they are bad for me but...

...and I am too lazy to get up and do it on the Mac, where I could easily do it, so I complain to the Ewok because he seems to enjoy such...

Divine intervention? Probably...God and I are not seeing eye to eye lately...

[Emil El Zapato]

I'm going to use your buddy Wade (my choir of 2) Frazier as an example, while sticking with the John McCain theme:

Example A: There is much to be said about John McCain: From prisoner of war, fighter pilot, senator, proud patriot, loving husband and father, to a man who was a war monger and supporter of ISIS. Life is complicated, and we wear many hats along the way. Like him I've worn many hats, and while some things I've done I'm still proud of looking back upon to this day, others I can only hang my head in shame about.

The only saving grace is the ever present possibility of using those not so proud moments as lessons of what never to do again, to learn from them, to morph misdeeds into wisdom. It's all a matter of how we handle the cards we are dealt, and do we learn from our mistakes.

My journey is difficult to believe. Even I sometimes look back on my life and find it hard to believe, but I was there for it.

Example B: There is much to be said about John McCain: From war hero, prisoner of war, fighter pilot, senator, proud patriot, loving husband and father, to a man who was a war monger and supporter of ISIS. Life is complicated, and we wear many hats along the way. Like him I've worn many hats, and while some things I've done I'm still proud of looking back upon to this day, others I can only hang my head in shame about.

The only saving grace is the ever present possibility of using those not so proud moments as lessons of what never to do again, to learn from them, to morph misdeeds into wisdom. It's all a matter of how we handle the cards we are dealt, and do we learn from our mistakes.

I think your buddy Wade Frazier summed it up best:


http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?10672-WADE-FRAZIER-A-Healed-Planet&p=1245574&highlight=#post1245574


Example A is pretty much what you did in that other thread,
https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12480-Guns-4-Peace-Really/page3?p=842000137#post842000137

and why I called you out on it.

Example B is the way it should be done, and you should be well aware of that by now.

It's hard to disbelieve a sentiment like that... :)

Did you tell the Topic of Topics that I was watching their dysfunction with interest? I can't see them anymore.

NAP

p.s. In light of Woodward's new book, I've had an epiphany of sorts. The deep state IS out to get Trump. I think they are working in concert with Trump's (his people) royal guard out of fear for the world and the U.S. It's not like I didn't say this 3 years ago...Trump is nuts!

[Emil El Zapato]

Probably the same reason I’m a diabetic eating chocolate with hazelnuts...I know they are bad for me but...

...and I am too lazy to get up and do it on the Mac, where I could easily do it, so I complain to the Ewok because he seems to enjoy such...

Divine intervention? Probably...God and I are not seeing eye to eye lately...

I'm not surprised he's mad at you DD...the way you talk about him... tongue-in-cheek...please... :)

[Dumpster Diver]

I'm not surprised he's mad at you DD...the way you talk about him... tongue-in-cheek...please... :)

My God is pissed at everybody! As I’m Nordic, my god is Odin...pretty much the same as Zeus and the Christian God Yahweh. He (and he is very male) zaps folks with lightning in his Zeus/Odin form and demands the sacrifice of infants, creates weapons of mass destruction (the Arc), wipes out other tribes in favor of his “chosen people” in his “Christian” (but actually Jewish) form.

So yeah, now that I’m getting a clue, he’s not happy...

Come the revolution, we’re tossing his angry ass out...

[Emil El Zapato]

Those are only the God/s you've been told about...the real one is out there listening to good hearts with a perfect ear...

[Aragorn]

Those are only the God/s you've been told about...the real one is out there listening to good hearts with a perfect ear...

Now that's a great joke. :like: Go on, tell us another one. ;)

[Dumpster Diver]

It’s a NEW day!

I’ve decided to go back to being “normal” again...no woo-woo conspiracy sh!t, no feeling bad when I crush some pencil-neck geek at chess...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fOc1GZtTalE/TmfVCqSW-CI/AAAAAAAABLs/umqWaveG4sI/s1600/Far+Side.jpg

[Dreamtimer]

DKD will never be normal. Not possible.

I hope that doesn't mean you're going away...

[Dumpster Diver]

DKD will never be normal. Not possible.

I hope that doesn't mean you're going away...

...nope, I live to torment the Ewok...

[Wind]

You sure have a cute name for Aragorn.

[Dreamtimer]

But Dumpy will never be able to ewok in his shoes...

[Aragorn]

But Dumpy will never be able to ewok in his shoes...

Oh my gawd, just imagine Dumpster Diver running The One Truth. :shocked: This place would become a madhouse in a heartbeat! :ha: :hilarious:

[Fred Steeves]

Oh my gawd, just imagine Dumpster Diver running The One Truth. :shocked: This place would become a madhouse in a heartbeat! :ha: :hilarious:

Were DD even the least bit philosophically minded, that axiom of a statement would prove fodder for some serious self reflection.

[Dumpster Diver]

Oh my gawd, just imagine Dumpster Diver running The One Truth. :shocked: This place would become a madhouse in a heartbeat! :ha: :hilarious:

...one can only hope...

[Dumpster Diver]

Were DD even the least bit philosophically minded, that axiom of a statement would prove fodder for some serious self reflection.

What? Ima philosuper, er...philosoaper...umm, what you said...

...btw, too much philosoaper introspection will turn you into a soapy puddle of reflection...


But Dumpy will never be able to ewok in his shoes...

I think the Ewok puts pebbles in his own shoes just like the old priests used to wear hair shirts...so yeah, I wouldn’t much want to walk in them.


You sure have a cute name for Aragorn.

Thanks, but as I recall, he bought it upon himself with the “you can’t Ewok into Mordor” meme...

[Dreamtimer]

Yub Yub. Utanee!

[Wind]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/88/71/08/887108a363c5827e05952156fdefc066.jpg

[Fred Steeves]

Oh my gawd, just imagine Dumpster Diver running The One Truth. :shocked: This place would become a madhouse in a heartbeat! :ha: :hilarious:


Were DD even the least bit philosophically minded, that axiom of a statement would prove fodder for some serious self reflection.


What? Ima philosuper, er...philosoaper...umm, what you said...

...btw, too much philosoaper introspection will turn you into a soapy puddle of reflection...

An unfortunate, yet not at all unexpected answer.

Too bad my brother you're a smart guy...

[Aragorn]

You sure have a cute name for Aragorn.

Thanks, but as I recall, he bought it upon himself with the “you can’t Ewok into Mordor” meme...

Um, no. That particular meme was a reply to something you yourself had posted.

As I recall, you were referring to me as a Wookie first — I believe it was on somebody's introduction thread — and then in a followup post, you changed it from a Wookie to an Ewok, with a somewhat distasteful meme attached of a zombie Ewok eating the severed head of an Imperial Storm Trooper. I then got back to you with that meme of "You can't just ewok into Mordor", or something like that. :hmm:

[Dumpster Diver]

Um, no. That particular meme was a reply to something you yourself had posted.

As I recall, you were referring to me as a Wookie first — I believe it was on somebody's introduction thread — and then in a followup post, you changed it from a Wookie to an Ewok, with a somewhat distasteful meme attached of a zombie Ewok eating the severed head of an Imperial Storm Trooper. I then got back to you with that meme of "You can't just ewok into Mordor", or something like that. :hmm:

Oh, ok...brain is getting leaky I guess...

...now about us inmates running the asylum, we really ought to try it sometime for yuks.

[Aragorn]

You sure have a cute name for Aragorn.

Thanks, but as I recall, he bought it upon himself with the “you can’t Ewok into Mordor” meme...

Um, no. That particular meme was a reply to something you yourself had posted.

As I recall, you were referring to me as a Wookie first — I believe it was on somebody's introduction thread — and then in a followup post, you changed it from a Wookie to an Ewok, with a somewhat distasteful meme attached of a zombie Ewok eating the severed head of an Imperial Storm Trooper. I then got back to you with that meme of "You can't just ewok into Mordor", or something like that. :hmm:

Oh, ok...brain is getting leaky I guess...

...now about us inmates running the asylum, we really ought to try it sometime for yuks.

I swear, there are times when I think it's already happening that way around here. :p

[Dumpster Diver]

In keeping with my Nordic background and fascination with the Nazis, I found this interview quite good:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgMtMklrc8Y&feature=youtu.be

https://youtu.be/YgMtMklrc8Y

Again, I’m on my iPad, so dropping the .be link here...

...but this interview is a very nice wrap up of much of Joseph Farrell’s work...and us Nazi freaks can geek out on all the connections to 9/11 and most everything else we need to see while living in a world run, essentially, by a 4th Reich...

[Dreamtimer]

I bet he goes way out on the limb of high octane speculation...

[Dumpster Diver]

I bet he goes way out on the limb of high octane speculation...

...as always, but he makes a number of great points. Always a (hidden) history lesson...or rather...history speculation.

Btw, are you one of the inmates taking over Arkham asylum from the Ewok?

[Aragorn]

Again, I’m on my iPad, so dropping the .be link here...

When you drop a link into your post, then it's still only plain text — and thus editable — until you submit the post. So if you're going to use the abridged youtu.be link, then all you need to do is replace the "[video]" tags in your post with "[youtube]" tags — or use the YouTube icon in the toolbar, instead of the filmstrip icon — and delete everything from that link except for the actual video identifier string after the last slash.

As an example, I am going to take your link as you pasted it above: https://youtu.be/YgMtMklrc8Y. The part that you should put between the YouTube tags is the string "YgMtMklrc8Y", and the part that you should be deleting is the "https://youtu.be/".

Now tell me again that you, a former programmer, don't know how to edit the text of your own post before submitting it — iPad or no iPad. :rolleyes: ;)

[Dumpster Diver]

When you drop a link into your post, then it's still only plain text — and thus editable — until you submit the post. So if you're going to use the abridged youtu.be link, then all you need to do is replace the "[video]" tags in your post with "[youtube]" tags — or use the YouTube icon in the toolbar, instead of the filmstrip icon — and delete everything from that link except for the actual video identifier string after the last slash.

As an example, I am going to take your link as you pasted it above: https://youtu.be/YgMtMklrc8Y. The part that you should put between the YouTube tags is the string "YgMtMklrc8Y", and the part that you should be deleting is the "https://youtu.be/".

Now tell me again that you, a former programmer, don't know how to edit the text of your own post before submitting it — iPad or no iPad. :rolleyes: ;)

...I was one of the dumb, lazy programmers, that’s why I got kicked up into management...:banana:

[Dumpster Diver]

David Wilcock has surfaced and has an ominous prediction about the deep state.

...and that we better buy extra toilet paper:

https://divinecosmos.com/davids-blog/22005-stunning-new-briefings-spy-satellites-down-deep-state-arrests-finally-imminent?utm_source=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_medium=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_term=&utm_content=Stunning+New+Briefings%3A+Spy+Satellit es+Down%2C+Deep+State+Arrests+Finally+Imminent%3F&utm_campaign=09082018

[Dreamtimer]

It's a wicked long piece.

I don't see David's face all over his page anymore.

[Dumpster Diver]

It's a wicked long piece.

I don't see David's face all over his page anymore.

His new bride got on him about the long, rambling write ups...

...I can see he listened to her. :ha:

Anyway, long story made short:

Cabal satellites were knocked out Aug 30 and the long expected take down of the deep state is about to happen so You should do doomsday prepper stuff like:

1+ month supply of food and water
Same for toilet paper ( important to Davie for some reason )
Expect power to be out for two or more weeks. ( keep your cars gassed up, elec is needed for gas pumps and in our case, air conditioning for the crazies down in Phoenix)
Sounds like it will happen this month (September)
The 50k+ sealed indictments will be served and the Hildabeast is at the top of the list
It will be military tribunals (which implies Martial Law being declared)
Expect some civil backlash

[Dreamtimer]

Imposing Martial Law would be insanity. The bankers would lose. The corporations would lose. The politicians would lose. I'm having a real hard time believing that will happen.

In addition, jailing Hillary is such a wet dream to keep dangling out there. One with amazing mileage.

There's a new religion where a frog is god and the devil is a woman.

[Dumpster Diver]

Imposing Martial Law would be insanity. The bankers would lose. The corporations would lose. The politicians would lose. I'm having a real hard time believing that will happen.

In addition, jailing Hillary is such a wet dream to keep dangling out there. One with amazing mileage.

There's a new religion where a frog is god and the devil is a woman.

Agreed, but you can’t do trials of the populace under the UCMJ - Uniform Code of Military Justice unless you have declared Martial Law. If you don’t then it is a kangaroo court.

Dreamy, you may get your wish for interesting times.

...meanwhile, I’m prepping. There is nothing more horrid than not having any TP.

[Chris]

I'll post something from James Howard Kunstler here, since it seems relevant to the discussion. He's in the same mold as Dmitry Orlov, but he is actually a registered Democrat and used to be a NYT columnist. In light of that, his perspective on the Left-wing collusion with foreign powers to steal the elections and subvert the power of the Trump presidency is especially interesting.


http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/three-bagger/

And so the Golden Golem of Greatness re-enters the hall of mirrors that Syria has become. The US intelligence “community” has informed the US Media that Syrian President Assad is planning a new gas attack on Idlib Province, where a ragtag army of US-backed “rebels” (ISIS, etc) remain holed up against Assad’s forces backed by Russian air support . Have we seen this movie before?

Is Mr. Assad truly that dumb? — since the last time a gas attack was alleged (and actually never proven), Mr. Trump averred that he would attack Syria. And what did he even mean by that? Send a barrel bomb down the Assad family chimney, or just blow up more stuff on the ground? And for what? To birth another failed state in the Middle East (just what the world needs), or perhaps start World War Three with Russia? (Ditto, with a cherry on top.)

Excuse me if I am skeptical about anything the US intel “community” dredges up these days in the way of breaking news. Branches of that sprawling vine are already infected with creeping rot. I speak, of course, of the upper echelons of the FBI especially and their counterparts in the CIA orbit (ex-Directors John Brennan, Michael Hayden, ex DNI James Clapper and their cronies still on-the-job). Just as there is loose talk about an Assad gas attack, there’s also a lot of loose talk around the Internet that a large number of US intel communitarians are about to be busted for their political misconduct around the 2016 election. I’ll believe that when I see it on Glenn Greenwald’s Twitter feed.

Anyway, the Assad gas attack story does raise the question whether the intel community is ginning up a gigantic and ugly distraction from its own inconvenient legal exposure. Mounting evidence shows an orchestrated campaign by them to meddle in the 2016 elections, and continue meddling afterward to thwart, discredit, delegitimize, and defame Mr. Trump, for the purpose of leaving him little room to act. To a considerable extent, the Golden Golem of Greatness has managed to act anyway. For instance, transforming the Supreme Court.
The likely confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh may be a last straw for the “Resistance.” It would certainly affect the adjudication of any new disputes that arise over relations between Mr. Trump and Special Counsel Robert Mueller in the weeks ahead. The Mueller investigation into 2016 election “collusion” between Russia and Trump looks more and more like a case of displacement-projection syndrome, since dumpster-loads of evidence now point to collusion between the Hillary campaign, the DNC, a cast of rogue spooks from the CIA, various FBI officers, and British Intelligence in a scheme that is now going to grand juries.
All that nasty business, starting with the news that a grand jury has been secretly grilling former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe for weeks, suggests that events are about to unspool dramatically. The story has been coiling for months as fresh documents emerge and officials, such as the DOJ Inspector General, confirm what they mean. It remains to be seen whether the Web chatter about dozens of “sealed indictments” coming down is horse-shit. The baffling part is the role of Attorney General Jeff Sessions. I’m inclined to doubt that Mr. Trump’s regular vilifications of Sessions are a ruse, meant to mislead the media about the AG’s activities in these matters. But the DC Swamp is unnerved by Sessions’ extraordinary absence of presence on the scene. Has he actually been involved in any of this, or is he playing animal lotto on his desk?

There is a certain balance between the new hostilities in Syria — possible existential threat — and the anxious disquiet about a so-called “soft coup” against the chief executive. What really might turn over the whole groaning table of national tribulations will be the discovery that the Trump economic boom is fake. The current “boom” story rests on more than a trillion dollars of money-pumping enabled by tax cuts and racking up evermore debt. Mr. Trump was foolish to take “ownership” of it, and when reality re-enters the scene, the Resistance will finally have something real to hang him with.

Most unsettling about these trending events is that they appear on a path to converge this fall, along with the midterm elections. The public is already confused and angry enough. I’m worried that we can’t handle what’s coming.

[Fred Steeves]

David Wilcock has surfaced and has an ominous prediction about the deep state.

...and that we better buy extra toilet paper:

https://divinecosmos.com/davids-blog/22005-stunning-new-briefings-spy-satellites-down-deep-state-arrests-finally-imminent?utm_source=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_medium=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_term=&utm_content=Stunning+New+Briefings%3A+Spy+Satellit es+Down%2C+Deep+State+Arrests+Finally+Imminent%3F&utm_campaign=09082018

What a load of rubbish, yet you continue to place the ever ongoing dog and pony show center stage here as if it's something meaningful to take a look at.

So our sources for this gem of a piece are Qanon, Michael Salla, Corey Goode with his "deep insiders", and David Wilcock with his "deep insiders".

Wow...

[Wind]

Wash it down with Kool-Aid.

[Dumpster Diver]

Update: Hurricane Florence is aimed at DC and part of the “action”?

https://divinecosmos.com/davids-blog/22005-stunning-new-briefings-spy-satellites-down-deep-state-arrests-finally-imminent/3/?utm_source=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_medium=ONTRAPORT-email-broadcast&utm_term=&utm_content=Stunning+New+Briefings+MUST-SEE+UPDATE%21%21%21&utm_campaign=09102018


What a load of rubbish, yet you continue to place the ever ongoing dog and pony show center stage here as if it's something meaningful to take a look at.

So our sources for this gem of a piece are Qanon, Michael Salla, Corey Goode with his "deep insiders", and David Wilcock with his "deep insiders".

Wow...

...yup, and I’m still buying the TP...:smiley-dance013:

[Dreamtimer]

I'm hearing about it hitting the Carolinas.

We'll get hammered with more rain and we've already had our yearly average. Normally these are the dry days, but not since mid-July.

Crazy.

My Seneca friend says we're gonna keep having 100 year and 1000 year weather events.

[Emil El Zapato]

"To a considerable extent, the Golden Golem of Greatness has managed to act anyway. For instance, transforming the Supreme Court." Right or left, this writer is clueless. In the overall scheme of things, would Trump have to oppose anyone to get a Supreme Court that will look like it does after he's finishing demolishing what was left of the court's credibility. Every authoritarian on the planet is shivering with ecstasy.

How soon we forget: Not 2 days ago DD said he was going mainstream...He's just yanking whatever chain that is within reach... :)

[Dumpster Diver]

"To a considerable extent, the Golden Golem of Greatness has managed to act anyway. For instance, transforming the Supreme Court." Right or left, this writer is clueless. In the overall scheme of things, would Trump have to oppose anyone to get a Supreme Court that will look like it does after he's finishing demolishing what was left of the court's credibility. Every authoritarian on the planet is shivering with ecstasy.

How soon we forget: Not 2 days ago DD said he was going mainstream...He's just yanking whatever chain that is within reach... :)

Chain yanker? Me? :cry:

...yeah, I stayed “mainstream” for about 1/2 day...

...this sh!t is like drugs... :cloud:

...oh, btw. Don’ need no stinkin’ civilian judges under military law...’specially if you lock their collective asses in Gitmo.

[Fred Steeves]

What a load of rubbish, yet you continue to place the ever ongoing dog and pony show center stage here as if it's something meaningful to take a look at.

So our sources for this gem of a piece are Qanon, Michael Salla, Corey Goode with his "deep insiders", and David Wilcock with his "deep insiders".

Wow...




...yup, and I’m still buying the TP...:smiley-dance013:

Interesting to see you getting more and more glib over time at being that guy at the party who thinks it's cute to keep putting the lampshade over his head and yelling "hey, look at me!", while at the same time trying to pass himself off as a serious player/researcher.


I will now leave you to your folly.

[Dumpster Diver]

Interesting to see you getting more and more glib over time at being that guy at the party who thinks it's cute to keep putting the lampshade over his head and yelling "hey, look at me!", while at the same time trying to pass himself off as a serious player/researcher.


I will now leave you to your folly.

Dude, I frankly could give two sh!ts about what you think. As I’ve said many times BEFORE you showed up with your pissy attitude, I’m here for me, not you. I only throw out things to get reactions and thus information and if/when I judge it not worth my time, I’ll go piss in someone else’s Wheaties...

[Chris]

"To a considerable extent, the Golden Golem of Greatness has managed to act anyway. For instance, transforming the Supreme Court." Right or left, this writer is clueless. In the overall scheme of things, would Trump have to oppose anyone to get a Supreme Court that will look like it does after he's finishing demolishing what was left of the court's credibility. Every authoritarian on the planet is shivering with ecstasy.

Maybe he is, he's been wrong about a lot of things in the past. Then again, he has been absolutely spot-on about a number of trends that are shaping our world today. I might start a separate thread for collapsitarians, such as James Howard Kunstler and Dmitry Orlov. I think they provide a valuable perspective even if their doom-and-gloom predictions don't always come true. I am particularly a fan of Dmitry as he writes extensively about how to survive the inevitable collapse of what he calls the "Technosphere", this self-emergent, artificially intelligent (to a degree) parasitic organism that is destroying both the planet and humanity. Both authors have written several books on the subject, as well as hundreds of essays. I'm very choosy about what I read, but I never miss anything that these two gentlemen write.


JHKs whole premise is that whatever happens in Washington (or Brussels) will become increasingly irrelevant in the long run as such supersized entities as the United States or the EU cannot survive a shift to a less resource-intensive and local living arrangement. He sees every giant entity coming a-cropper in a collapse of sorts and human life spontaneously reorganising along smaller, local lines, with a lot more emphasis on small towns, walkable communities, a revival of railroads and local industries and agriculture. The political centre will become all but irrelevant. I tend to think that his overall premise is correct, though who knows how long it will take to play out. One of the reasons I moved away from the big city (London) to a medium-sized town in Hungary, where I have family, is because I would not want to be caught in the big city when the shit hit the fan. It's going to get ugly, I'm sure about that. It isn't just about the economy and our energy predicament, but a convergence of factors (Climate Change, Natural Disasters, Pollution, overpopulation, etc...) which will knock all our complex, global systems down a peg.

[Dumpster Diver]

Maybe he is, he's been wrong about a lot of things in the past. Then again, he has been absolutely spot-on about a number of trends that are shaping our world today. I might start a separate thread for collapsitarians, such as James Howard Kunstler and Dmitry Orlov. I think they provide a valuable perspective even if their doom-and-gloom predictions don't always come true. I am particularly a fan of Dmitry as he writes extensively about how to survive the inevitable collapse of what he calls the "Technosphere", this self-emergent, artificially intelligent (to a degree) parasitic organism that is destroying both the planet and humanity. Both authors have written several books on the subject, as well as hundreds of essays. I'm very choosy about what I read, but I never miss anything that these two gentlemen write.


JHKs whole premise is that whatever happens in Washington (or Brussels) will become increasingly irrelevant in the long run as such supersized entities as the United States or the EU cannot survive a shift to a less resource-intensive and local living arrangement. He sees every giant entity coming a-cropper in a collapse of sorts and human life spontaneously reorganising along smaller, local lines, with a lot more emphasis on small towns, walkable communities, a revival of railroads and local industries and agriculture. The political centre will become all but irrelevant. I tend to think that his overall premise is correct, though who knows how long it will take to play out. One of the reasons I moved away from the big city (London) to a medium-sized town in Hungary, where I have family, is because I would not want to be caught in the big city when the shit hit the fan. It's going to get ugly, I'm sure about that. It isn't just about the economy and our energy predicament, but a convergence of factors (Climate Change, Natural Disasters, Pollution, overpopulation, etc...) which will knock all our complex, global systems down a peg.

Exactly. The hurricane flags are flying. With all the warning signs about, if you don’t make some sort of preparation, you could be quite sorry later.

BTW, I will be quite happy to be wrong. Frankly, I don’t like this twisted woo-woo world of yours. I’d be very happy to wake up and find it all to be a f*cked up dream.

...but just because I don’t like it, doesn’t mean I won’t take caution against it.

[palooka's revenge]

Poo without the woo wouldn't know what to doo...

[Chris]

Exactly. The hurricane flags are flying. With all the warning signs about, if you don’t make some sort of preparation, you could be quite sorry later.

BTW, I will be quite happy to be wrong. Frankly, I don’t like this twisted woo-woo world of yours. I’d be very happy to wake up and find it all to be a f*cked up dream.

...but just because I don’t like it, doesn’t mean I won’t take caution against it.

I know what you mean... I used to be a 100 percent Atheist, not to mention dyed-in-the wool committed materialist. Christopher Hitchens was my God, as well as Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and others of a similar vein. All the books I read were about science, economics, history, geography, politics, engineering and 100 percent tangible, material stuff. This really was only a few years ago, less than 10 for sure.

Then weird shit started happening and I realised I was wrong. Very wrong. The spirit world is real. It can be damn spooky sometimes, not to mention scary. Some of the entities I met are straight out of horror flicks, though of course those movies over dramatise them and play up the scare factor for more views. I recommended the movie "the Lazarus Effect" on this forum a few days ago and watched it too. I knew before I watched it that it would be a mistake, and I got a very strong warning from my higher self not to watch it, but I was defiant and stubborn, refusing to allow the risk of malevolent spirits to influence my entertainment options.

Well, the night after was a bloody nightmare, literally. I know when a spirit is trying to influence me as there is this unpleasant electromagnetic effect, which is very hard to explain, but it is a bit like the mild electric shock you get when licking one of those classic 9 volt batteries. That night a spirit tried to wrestle control of me or at least influence me in a negative way, really very similarly to how it is depicted in the movie I mentioned, if you've seen it.

I don't know who it was, but after I woke up from this very unpleasant dream charged with extremely high levels of electromagnetism (and I know that I was taken to an unpleasant place by this entity), I saw the faint outlines of an old haggard woman by my bed as she was smiling at me, but in a sinister way. It was only a brief glimpse, but she looked a bit like classical depictions of witches. For some reason I never get scared when I meet one of these entities, which is weird, but that's just the way it goes. I was really more annoyed than anything, so I decided to drive her away.

You can imagine how difficult it is for an ex-atheist and still highly non-religious person to swallow his pride and do this, but yes, I called upon the Archangel Michael to come and help me out and drive the spirit away. He did so almost immediately and within seconds, any trace of the apparition was gone. I called upon him for a specific reason.

Many months ago, when I was still doing psychic reading sessions for PA members, somebody asked me a question about Archangel Michael and to my surprise and despite my great scepticism, he connected to me and passed on a very powerful blessing to the person in question. It was so profound and powerful that it moved me to tears and it had a similarly powerful effect on the person I was doing the psychic reading for. Michael made it very clear to me that whenever someone genuinely asks for his help, no matter how much trouble they may be in, he will assist them immediately, particularly if they are under attack by dark entities.

In fact, he showed me visions of angels fighting these dark entities with spiritual weapons and basically explained and confirmed to me the whole eternal war between heaven and hell theme with just a few images. I had no doubt that he would help me and so it was, just mentioning his name brought this golden-white light into the room (not visible to the naked eye, just to be clear, the spectrum of light that these entities operate in, is only visible to the third eye) and the haggard old lady was gone in seconds as was her unpleasant electromagnetic influence. For some reason, the old lady reminded me of Chamunda, the darkest of dark goddesses in the Hindu pantheon, who makes even Kali look positively friendly.

That is the name that popped into my head as she disappeared, but it may only be my brain making this association, she may have been someone else entirely. Anyways, I hope I'm not freaking anyone out with this, but I thought this might make an interesting anecdote to illustrate your point actually. Believe me, I don't like the woo-woo stuff any more than you do, but what the Hell (literally) can I do if it keeps creeping up on me and popping into my life unexpectedly? By the way, I want to make it clear that I am not promoting Christianity or Angels here, just pointing out what had worked for me. It is perhaps food for thought as this happened to someone who is decidedly anti-Christian and specifically opposed to Catholicism to this day.

[palooka's revenge]

.... it is a bit like the mild electric shock you get when licking one of those classic 9 volt batteries.


Oh, that metallic taste! I suspect that's to help get our attention by triggering another of the senses. I know it as the taste of fear. I'd pretty much connected that dot but was most definitely validated standing atop class 5 rapids for 15 years where there is no doubt. Every time someone proclaims NO FEAR, I shudder!!


I saw the faint outlines of an old haggard woman by my bed as she was smiling at me, but in a sinister way.

This is pure speculation on my part but I'm going out on a limb to ask, could this image have been a reflection, held in your shadow self, of yer POV toward the fem polarity? IOW, the Mother? AKA, the Will polarity?


For some reason I never get scared when I meet one of these entities, which is weird, but that's just the way it goes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV__vRQ8fC0

... when I don't feel NOTHIN'! My point, exactly...

[Wind]

Michael made it very clear to me that whenever someone genuinely asks for his help, no matter how much trouble they may be in, he will assist them immediately, particularly if they are under attack by dark entities.

I can confirm this too, it works.

[Dreamtimer]

Poo without the woo wouldn't know what to doo...

lol. woo-hoo!

[Dreamtimer]

I'm in an area that is country, formerly rural, now just a hop-skip-jump from urban suburbia. So we could stay and survive with the land and water available, but the "desperate" from the city aren't that far away. We do have family out in the mountains if it were to get bad.

[Chris]

Oh, that metallic taste! I suspect that's to help get our attention by triggering another of the senses. I know it as the taste of fear. I'd pretty much connected that dot but was most definitely validated standing atop class 5 rapids for 15 years where there is no doubt. Every time someone proclaims NO FEAR, I shudder!!

That is possible, I guess it depends on how you define fear. To me it is a sort of energy, that is electromagnetic in nature and has a very specific, sinister frequency. I believe it is used to latch on to the living and influence them in some way.


This is pure speculation on my part but I'm going out on a limb to ask, could this image have been a reflection, held in your shadow self, of yer POV toward the fem polarity? IOW, the Mother? AKA, the Will polarity?


I don't know. To me, the entity felt like an outside influence. I'm starting to think that these horror movies are actually linked to real demons or other spirits in a deliberate way. Perhaps this is how they feed off the fear energy generated by those watching the movies.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV__vRQ8fC0

... when I don't feel NOTHIN'! My point, exactly...

I guess I should clarify that although I did not feel fear after I woke up, when I was in that dream (nightmare), there was definitely fear there. I don't remember much of it though, just that I was somehow taken to places and shown images by this entity and that during the dream I was helpless, a passive observer or a subject of whatever she was doing, without any real ability to influence things.

[Chris]

I'm in an area that is country, formerly rural, now just a hop-skip-jump from urban suburbia. So we could stay and survive with the land and water available, but the "desperate" from the city aren't that far away. We do have family out in the mountains if it were to get bad.

I'm not a prepper myself, but I do think the best preparation you can make for when the SHTF is choosing your physical location wisely. To just take one example, if WW3 were to break out, which is always a distinct possibility, guess which cities will be obliterated first? If you've ever seen a disaster movie, and who hasn't, you'll already know which cities to avoid. With apparent earth changes coming and climate change accelerating natural disasters, Hurricane and Earthquake Zones do not seem like the places to be. Also, being anywhere near the coasts seems like a bad idea. This deserves its own thread as the subject matter is gigantic, perhaps I'll get down to it eventually.

[Wind]

If and when shit hits the fan in the near future, it might hit it so hard that I suspect it will cause many "major malfunctions" in most societies and countries. That's when man will show his true nature again.

May the Creator indeed bless us all.

[palooka's revenge]

That's when man will show his true nature again.



that's when the collective survival chakras get triggered into ignition.


May the Creator indeed bless us all.

Amen!!

[palooka's revenge]

I'm in an area that is country, formerly rural, now just a hop-skip-jump from urban suburbia. So we could stay and survive with the land and water available, but the "desperate" from the city aren't that far away. We do have family out in the mountains if it were to get bad.

I'm kinda like U here on the far north of the ATL. Still in the woods but the suburban vermin is closin' in fast. Thus the inclination would be to go, walkin' if I have to, further north into the foothills of the Aps where like-mindeds have circled the wagons...

[Dumpster Diver]

The Red Heifer has been born in Israel:

https://www.odditycentral.com/news/end-of-days-prophecy-allegedly-fulfilled-after-first-red-heifer-in-2000-years-is-born-in-israel.html

Repent you heathens!!!

[Wind]

Yay, now fundamentalist nutcases can start their "holy" end time wars.

[Emil El Zapato]

I can see that but I also see another alternative...A world that has learned to cooperate. Perhaps analogous to insurance companies spending less on their litigators and propagandists and instead paying out to people in need. That is the scenario I am pulling for.

Incidentally, I did look up his credentials... :) I felt kind of foolish making a sweeping statement such as I did...but I'm still correct... :)

"Well, the night after was a bloody nightmare, literally. I know when a spirit is trying to influence me as there is this unpleasant electromagnetic effect, which is very hard to explain"

OBE...you gotta go with it or refuse...after awhile the psyche will not even bother you with it... :)

[Dreamtimer]

Yay, now fundamentalist nutcases can start their "holy" end time wars.

That's part of the 'why' of making the capital Jerusalem.

[Dumpster Diver]

Yay, now fundamentalist nutcases can start their "holy" end time wars.

Start? More like restart. I see 9/11 as the first strike in starting the end-times wars.

BTW, some confirmation of Blue Chicken Corey’s views:

https://michaelsalla.com/2018/09/11/advanced-technology-reports-leaked-by-corey-goode-confirmed-by-leading-scientist/

...of course, Salla is a blue chicken guy, so that negates everything...

[Dumpster Diver]

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/09/first-ocean-cleanup-system-will-begin-operations-in-a-few-weeks-and-sixty-systems-will-remove-50-of-ocean-plastic-within-5-years.html

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/oceancleanup1-730x430.jpg?mrf-size=l

Maybe we will clean up the ocean and get Mother Gaia less pissed out at us...

[Wind]

...or course, Salla is a blue chicken guy, so that negates everything...

Indeed!