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modwiz
30th April 2018, 07:50
Myth and magic live together and are woven into the tapestry of human consciousness and both are our birthright on Earth. I will be mixing the mythos of both Earth and Middle-Earth. There is a wealth of good videos for this to be done.

Also, magical subjects of our time will be a part of the greater arc of this thread. I will rely quite a bit on a modern Druid type like Thomas Sheridan. Michael Tsarion also has work that can allow people to transition into their birthright, if they care and dare to do so.

Most of all it is my wish that the thread will be enjoyable and even fun.

Let us begin with Middle-Earth and the Kingdom of Rohan and the Rohirrim

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Caballo_en_verde.png


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw4E2UAsnfI

modwiz
30th April 2018, 08:06
A good trasition from the Rohirrim would be to the head of the Norse Pantheon, Odin. It focuses on how he lost his eye and is two minutes long. It is followed by a more in depth look at him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27779KkNi08


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHZVwmiWPNM

modwiz
30th April 2018, 08:17
Wouldn't want anyone to get lost while exploring Norse mythology.

http://eye-rise.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2459&d=1524211701

enjoy being
30th April 2018, 09:09
Interesting, I have not read LOTR and therefore any appendices. I have met a fellow who is a complete encyclopaedia on the world of Tolkien.
Drawn a little to the Norse, a few odd dreams. One had some place in modern times with a few different parks. One that has huge and elaborate sculptures in bronze, it's a huge grassed area with a pillared old architectural building in the center. Possibly a museum. And the other was down near a port with islands and some kind of series of stairs and ramparts and bridges to cross to some of the islands.

Sorry I digress haha.
Feel that these times of myth in the past are of accuracy. Some cross overs. The age going into the 3rd dimension where power and patriarchal rule was the chosen experience and there was supplied 'gods' to complete the chess set, dressed to fit the required narrative of the age.
I often sense that history is like that, not necessarily an ongoing story involving the same characters acting out the same lessons, but made for the chosen period of experience. Kind of.

Elen
30th April 2018, 09:24
Thank you for that...I grew up with a lot of this. The Jotunheim is close to my heart...as I have trekked there a lot as a child. There were moments where the thought of the giants scared us. There were stories and legends to be considered :D, but I'm still here :h5: The Jotunheim is a National Park and so nobody can build there, but we had (still in the family) a cabin just outside with free access to the area. What I learned was a lot of respect for The Earth. I consider it a sacred place and a place to play, play with the weather, animals, plants and trees.

I have a contribution with this web-site offering free e-books with excerpts from the poetic Edda. We call it the Edda Sagas. At this stage I cannot offer any navigational tools, other than "jump right in". It is time consuming.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1152?msg=welcome_stranger

modwiz
30th April 2018, 09:57
Interesting, I have not read LOTR and therefore any appendices. I have met a fellow who is a complete encyclopaedia on the world of Tolkien.
Drawn a little to the Norse, a few odd dreams. One had some place in modern times with a few different parks. One that has huge and elaborate sculptures in bronze, it's a huge grassed area with a pillared old architectural building in the center. Possibly a museum. And the other was down near a port with islands and some kind of series of stairs and ramparts and bridges to cross to some of the islands.

Sorry I digress haha.
Feel that these times of myth in the past are of accuracy. Some cross overs. The age going into the 3rd dimension where power and patriarchal rule was the chosen experience and there was supplied 'gods' to complete the chess set, dressed to fit the required narrative of the age.
I often sense that history is like that, not necessarily an ongoing story involving the same characters acting out the same lessons, but made for the chosen period of experience. Kind of.

There is the sense that the gods acting out are a bit of a mirror for ourselves. Dramas, fookery, passions and even comedy to allow us to become greater, in behavior and wisdom than the gods themselves. It is at that point the gods become elemental forces and their true Nature is revealed.


Thank you for that...I grew up with a lot of this. The Jotunheim is close to my heart...as I have trekked there a lot as a child. There were moments where the thought of the giants scared us. There were stories and legends to be considered :D, but I'm still here :h5: The Jotunheim is a National Park and so nobody can build there, but we had (still in the family) a cabin just outside with free access to the area. What I learned was a lot of respect for The Earth. I consider it a sacred place and a place to play, play with the weather, animals, plants and trees.

I have a contribution with this web-site offering free e-books with excerpts from the poetic Edda. We call it the Edda Sagas. At this stage I cannot offer any navigational tools, other than "jump right in". It is time consuming.

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1152?msg=welcome_stranger

The beauty of myth(s) is it allows us to enter a landscape of imagination, which is our other reality half, even the source reality. The above to the below. Furthermore we can then enter into a mythic 'self' which is far closer to our true Nature than the mundane citizen of a city/state. By embracing both and gracefully transitioning as the situation requires, we get in touch with what could be called a form of shape-shifting.

modwiz
30th April 2018, 10:13
A personal report on magic in my life would be starting a new practice in Gaian Tantric Magic. That is, following the Lunar cycles. Especially the Crescent Moon 36-72 hours after the New Moon (Dark) It appears in the Western sky at sunset at that time. Tuning into the energies or Dakinis (Tibetan) that come on 'shift' for that cycle. They will be the mood and thematic focus of Sophia for that cycle.

The creativity of Bu-Devi and Her inspiration of the arts is a time of creativity and it has had its way with me. Green Tara, caretaker of Nature and Green beings,(vegetation) is also on shift and makes this cycle unique because it has two Dakinis. Tennis anyone? Be aware, you will be the ball but, the choice of trajectory is ours to create. If we have what it takes.

If not, enjoy the ride and observe as they toss you about. It is done in love and to provide growth in coming into our power. That is, to understand what sovereignty means on the planet/Gaia created for us.

Elen
30th April 2018, 10:36
The Jotunheim...Besseggen not far from the cabin.

https://media3.trover.com/T/595157a6ad412a778e02e735/fixedw_large_4x.jpg

Rainbow bridge ;)

https://media7.trover.com/T/5a4ae47fced1896e48065b14/fixedw_large_4x.jpg

modwiz
30th April 2018, 10:50
The first or top map is based on Tolkien's own drawn maps. However, there is a very creative fan base that have created very reasonable extrapolations to produce a view that could very well represent a greater picture and bring Middle-Earth closer to our own. In many ways a remembering of a story of our remote past. Perhaps a parallel could-have-been world. The bottom map provides that perspective and I found it visual engaging. Not to mention, very stirring of the subconscious.

http://eye-rise.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2503&d=1525085321

http://eye-rise.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2504&d=1525085400

Gale Frierson
30th April 2018, 11:05
Shhhh, Wizzie, you might just wake the "Unknowing"!

modwiz
30th April 2018, 11:12
Shhhh, Wizzie, you might just wake the "Unknowing"!

Thank you, Gale. That is generous and, if it does help, it would be my pleasure to do so. In many ways, there is a spirit moving me to do this. And just a little teasing out may be all that is needed. There is a perception of something in our collective psyche that I will call 'pregnant'.

Dreamtimer
30th April 2018, 11:13
Just getting started here, still have some listening to do. I listened to a good bit of Daniel Updike and his Northern Runes radio. He spoke about Odin. If I recall correctly one of the reasons Odin gave up his eye and hung from the tree for nine days was to procure the runes and the knowledge that came with them.

So glad you started with the Rohirrim. They have a special place in my heart.:love:

modwiz
30th April 2018, 11:15
Just getting started here, still have some listening to do. I listened to a good bit of Daniel Updike and his Northern Runes radio. He spoke about Odin. If I recall correctly one of the reasons Odin gave up his eye and hung from the tree for nine days was to procure the runes and the knowledge that came with them.

So glad you started with the Rohirrim. They have a special place in my heart.:love:

After the he received the runes he gave his eye to see 'all'. One can call it wisdom. I like the metaphor of the remaining eye saw the outside world and the missing one saw the inner invisible one. The short video is all about that part.

Dreamtimer
30th April 2018, 11:25
I've heard about that pregnancy, Modwiz. And that earth is about to give birth. There are different definitions for what that means. I'm on board with spiritual awakening. That's much more inspiring than mega-catastrophe.

modwiz
30th April 2018, 11:27
I've heard about that pregnancy, Modwiz. And that earth is about to give birth. There are different definitions for what that means. I'm on board with spiritual awakening. That's much more inspiring than mega-catastrophe.

Yes! Not on board with a cat ass trophy either.:ha:

modwiz
30th April 2018, 11:39
Hecate is a very personal favorite of mine. She has more than one origin story and that is a big clue. For me, she is revealed as a daughter of Gaia and not one of the Titans, who are demi-urgic insertions into the primordial mythos. This video is pretty good as an introduction. I did say very personal favorite. (wink)

So much deeper than the title states. She has some major agency.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylF7rqVsLEg&t=1s

modwiz
30th April 2018, 11:57
Hecate is associated with crossroads or crossings. Doorways and entrances fall into this in the deeper gnosis of Her. She guards/oversees portals by derivation and therefore chakras,especially considering Her affiliation/lore with the kundalini serpent energy that moves through them. She is a true daughter of Gaia.

https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/837657165966012416

Dreamtimer
30th April 2018, 12:00
I haven't stared into that series of gateways, but I think it could be quite trippy if I did. :shapeshift:

modwiz
30th April 2018, 12:05
I haven't stared into that series of gateways, but I think it could be quite trippy if I did. :shapeshift:

Yes, it is trippy that stays with one a bit. Tis wise to proceed with respect for it.

Maggie
30th April 2018, 17:59
Yes! Not on board with a cat ass trophy either.:ha:

Interesting thread and I am laughing here.

Dreamtimer
1st May 2018, 12:38
Persephone, Demeter, Hecate. I don't think I've heard these three as the maiden, mother, crone before. I remember learning about Demeter as a kid and liking her.

Crossroads seem to mostly be shown as four way, but the masks look three ways. Past, present, future. A fork in the road is a three-way cross road. That symbol is seen around the world in logos and more.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Flickr_-_Laenulfean_-_crossroads.jpg

enjoy being
1st May 2018, 12:48
Makes one think of the 5 faces of Shiva.

Emil El Zapato
1st May 2018, 13:01
Hecate is a very personal favorite of mine. She has more than one origin story and that is a big clue. For me, she is revealed as a daughter of Gaia and not one of the Titans, who are demi-urgic insertions into the primordial mythos. This video is pretty good as an introduction. I did say very personal favorite. (wink)

So much deeper than the title states. She has some major agency.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylF7rqVsLEg&t=1s

Last evening I noticed the next episode of Penny Dreadful is about Hecate. I haven't watched this video or the episode but I'm wondering if there is a lesson or learning potential in the episode.

Nothing has caused me to indulge in a little reflection. In being honest with myself I realized that most everything I see on this board is not really interesting or relevant to me. And to try to contribute my thoughts to such is not productive. What is interesting and relevant, in my opinion of course, are the people on the board. I could try to couch my reflections in esoteric language but it just isn't my style, I am driven by my nature to keep it simple because in my estimate in those terms the message should be self evident. What really trips my trigger is to see what motivates the words behind the contributors.

What I have seen are some 'clean' spirits, some very confused ones, some self-absorbed ones, some very focused and earnest ones, some dealing with generalized hostility. The run of humanity if you will. All that is cool. I try not to judge, I just try to learn and frankly I try to steer to the truth, peace, understanding, global community. I would add humility but that would be a shining example of hypocrisy as I'm currently struggling with that.

I've always found it interesting when I have been criticized that when I defend myself I am accused of arrogance. It's about balance and :) and I try to maintain it.

Peace, Love, and Bunny Rabbits.

modwiz
1st May 2018, 13:26
Persephone, Demeter, Hecate. I don't think I've heard these three as the maiden, mother, crone before. I remember learning about Demeter as a kid and liking her.

Crossroads seem to mostly be shown as four way, but the masks look three ways. Past, present, future. A fork in the road is a three-way cross road. That symbol is seen around the world in logos and more.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Flickr_-_Laenulfean_-_crossroads.jpg

Hecate is so ancient that it can be difficult to find or define Her without intuition to guide one. But, like pieces of a puzzle, one can assemble a coherent concept that then comes to life in the psyche. Our minds will usually think of a crossroads as four because that forms a cross. However, it is more about roads/paths that converge into one center. Ideally these paths are more in the mind/imagination than physical but, both have their application according to the situation and desired setting.

The Greek primordial myth was quite simple and much closer to the truly ancient wisdom of pre-history. There was Gaia and Uranus. Earth and Sky. This does transmit the gnostic mysteries of the Aeons as dyads or a syzygy. (From Late Latin syzygia (“conjunction”), from Ancient Greek σύζυγος (súzugos, “yoked together”). Aeons are emanations of The Originator, the one ultimate unmanifest Creator of a galaxy. The Aeons are qualities, adapted by kabbalists for their sephiroth on their tree of life. Sophia/Wisdom was coupled with Thelete/Intent. One can 'grok' how they would pair together very well, for Wisdom would sit within itself without Intent.

Returning to the primordial Greek mythos, they expanded this simplicity as 'their mind' began to influence the war-like people who displaced the indigenous of what is now Greece and its islands. It starts with Kronos as a child of Gaia/Uranus and the fookery begins. Hecate is named as a Titan, as this batch of Gaia's children developed. This conflation can be confusing without certain inner guidance/intuition to guide us. My gnosis is Hecate is a true daughter of Gaia placed among the archontic insertions, and even that phrasing has its distortions without a lengthy dissertation about the Titans, who were a mix of qualities and beings. Kronos represents Time that had swallowed the memory of what would become the Olympian pantheon. That is, human memory, not all, had forgotten about these archons, Greek for rulers, until they emerge within history.

Hope that wasn't too painful.:lol:

Here is a Greek statue of Hecate with three faces though not, maiden/mother/crone. I do not like statues of these entities so much and prefer painted artistic renditions, if She must be depicted but, here it is.

http://eye-rise.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2508&d=1525179206

modwiz
1st May 2018, 13:36
Last evening I noticed the next episode of Penny Dreadful is about Hecate. I haven't watched this video or the episode but I'm wondering if there is a lesson or learning potential in the episode.

Nothing has caused me to indulge in a little reflection. In being honest with myself I realized that most everything I see on this board is not really interesting or relevant to me. And to try to contribute my thoughts to such is not productive. What is interesting and relevant, in my opinion of course, are the people on the board. I could try to couch my reflections in esoteric language but it just isn't my style, I am driven by my nature to keep it simple because in my estimate in those terms the message should be self evident. What really trips my trigger is to see what motivates the words behind the contributors.

What I have seen are some 'clean' spirits, some very confused ones, some self-absorbed ones, some very focused and earnest ones, some dealing with generalized hostility. The run of humanity if you will. All that is cool. I try not to judge, I just try to learn and frankly I try to steer to the truth, peace, understanding, global community. I would add humility but that would be a shining example of hypocrisy as I'm currently struggling with that.

I've always found it interesting when I have been criticized that when I defend myself I am accused of arrogance. It's about balance and :) and I try to maintain it.

Peace, Love, and Bunny Rabbits.

Many of the more prolific posters here are also involved in the arts of some sort. So, the logical blends with the ethereal in a synthesis that can be challenging. That you post your thoughts, like the above, certainly evokes great compassion within me and know I am not alone.:group hug:

enjoy being
1st May 2018, 13:39
Nice post NAP, it feels like you have given something of yourself. You at one point were glad I was one of you, which I found both endearing and worrying as I have no idea, still, who you are really.. But I tell you that in those words you have given now, we are the same, and many of us I would speculate are "seeking the same".
Myself I'm certainly only here for the observation of ourselves, rather than compiling of information.
I for one appreciate attempting to drag things closer to simplicity.

A repost of a snippet of a quote, because it is simple.

A common ritual at gatherings is the use of the Tokutoku, or talking stick. Whoever holds the stick can speak whatever they want for however long they want. Holding the stick creates the space for everyone hearing each other. This is the prerequisite for peace. Everyone needs to have a say, and what everyone has to say needs to be validated, not necessarily be agreed with, but heard. In spaciousness there is place for everyone. There is no time pressure: “it takes as long as it takes.” This is Aroha in action

And I may have missed it, from before I came in and disrupted proceedings in an unhelpful style, but I don't think anyone accused you of being arrogant. If anything, of what I have read from you, it feels like you are often defending a set of beliefs you have, but do not wish to really share them for whatever reason. Which is fine too.

modwiz
1st May 2018, 13:47
Nice post NAP, it feels like you have given something of yourself. You at one point were glad I was one of you, which I found both endearing and worrying as I have no idea, still, who you are really.. But I tell you that in those words you have given now, we are the same, and many of us I would speculate are "seeking the same".
Myself I'm certainly only here for the observation of ourselves, rather than compiling of information.
I for one appreciate attempting to drag things closer to simplicity.

A repost of a snippet of a quote, because it is simple.


And I may have missed it, from before I came in and disrupted proceedings in an unhelpful style, but I don't think anyone accused you of being arrogant. If anything, of what I have read from you, it feels like you are often defending a set of beliefs you have, but do not wish to really share them for whatever reason. Which is fine too.

I am really enjoying your posts, brother. Tis a deep well you speak from.

Emil El Zapato
1st May 2018, 13:59
As always, literally...I have to add clarifications to my earlier post:

I have never been an 'artsy' or 'poetic' type person but of my friends the ones I admired most were the artists and poets. It's an interesting dichotomy. My natal astrological charts 'undiscovered' talents so perhaps I am merely a frustrated 'artiste'. I did win an art contest in kindergarten. As one stated it, I peaked early.

Now my daughter is headed for art college and I still shake my head in wonder at from where her talent came from...it certainly wasn't me and and as my daughter points out it wasn't her mother. I did discover one interesting fact about art and how and when it began. It's speculated that it began with language as though it was two branches of the same tree.

But I'm making it all about me again. It really isn't about me though, perhaps in a vicarious fashion it is, but it is about my daughter and my pride in her... Just so we know... :)

Of course to add, among the artists and poets, I was the resident 'mystic'. Life can be hilarious at times.

enjoy being
1st May 2018, 14:21
Thanks Modwiz, I have failed miserably plenty of times in the past to get what is inside, out, without tears. So that's a relief.

Nap, I don't mean to sound patronising either. You're a smart guy and we all like you. You are Christian, and not that false corrupted commercial stuff either.. *knowing look*. I've seen many glimpses of the dexterity of your mind and devotion of heart.
All people seem to have degrees of 'differencelexia' it seems and is why we have tensions, full stop.
Friction over fear of consequences of differences.
It's hard even when you know your triggers, to sit down and look at something you maybe don't agree with and attempt to learn from each other. And I get that you get that. Probably got it before I did. I still haven't really got it. And neither has anyone.
So the spaciousness in that quote can sometimes be people bumping around in the dark still. I'd like to keep practising with people trying to do the same to see where it leads. I'll be putting my stick down for quite a while soon enough!

enjoy being
1st May 2018, 14:34
As always, literally...I have to add clarifications to my earlier post:

I have never been an 'artsy' or 'poetic' type person but of my friends the ones I admired most were the artists and poets. It's an interesting dichotomy. My natal astrological charts 'undiscovered' talents so perhaps I am merely a frustrated 'artiste'. I did win an art contest in kindergarten. As one stated it, I peaked early.

Now my daughter is headed for art college and I still shake my head in wonder at from where her talent came from...it certainly wasn't me and and as my daughter points out it wasn't her mother. I did discover one interesting fact about art and how and when it began. It's speculated that it began with language as though it was two branches of the same tree.

But I'm making it all about me again. It really isn't about me though, perhaps in a vicarious fashion it is, but it is about my daughter and my pride in her... Just so we know... :)

Of course to add, among the artists and poets, I was the resident 'mystic'. Life can be hilarious at times.

Great, it's pretty masterful to have created an artist. Anything worth doing is an art. Hey I am sorry for the style of speech I used with you yesterday, if that isn't already clear. Though, I don't really regret it if it creates some deeper level for us all. Just know, it is not personal, I don't brood, and I hope you don't either. I recall you saying you can take it.
But I probably took it too far hey!

I'm proud of your proudness of your daughter by the way. And by the looks of things you should be. People can be artists whenever they decide they have been their whole lives really.

modwiz
1st May 2018, 15:24
There are three main sites to source the myth videos. Tarvaa the Bard is my favorite for mood and his videos are more lengthy because he is more of a storyteller. A mix of the shorter and more comprehensive ones should be a good blend.

Here is a taste of Tarvaa. The fire is a wonderful touch. Thor is featured.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49525PlcObc

modwiz
1st May 2018, 15:43
https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/838074851741388800

modwiz
1st May 2018, 16:13
From the primordial Greek mythos, the bizarre Hecatonchires. The subtle insertion/insinuation of vanity on the part of Uranus is there to see when the Sophianic Narrative is known. Here begins the trashing of the Divine Feminine, with Her ultimately conspiring with Kronos, depicted as Her son (not) to castrate his father and take 'the throne' (that was never there) for himself. Nevertheless, fascinating story, IMO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rfKUy6i3bI

modwiz
1st May 2018, 16:33
After the Hecatonchires, something more soothing and Celtic/Irish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6fXRB0Jw0

modwiz
2nd May 2018, 10:01
https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/838341348661936128

modwiz
2nd May 2018, 14:44
The god that Tuesday is named after.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GohVCLdaKI&t=199s

Emil El Zapato
2nd May 2018, 16:38
There are three main sites to source the myth videos. Tarvaa the Bard is my favorite for mood and his videos are more lengthy because he is more of a storyteller. A mix of the shorter and more comprehensive ones should be a good blend.

Here is a taste of Tarvaa. The fire is a wonderful touch. Thor is featured.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49525PlcObc

yeah, I like these...

It's got to be inconvenient flying around with a whetstone in your head...wouldn't wanna be Thor. One interesting thing about most tales like this, across the mythological spectrum including the abrahamic traditions, is that 'sleep' seems to be an integral and important 'meme'. Anyone have any ideas why. Off the top of mine, I would consider that sleep implies dreaming and dreaming with its connection to the other worlds might be the source. I love stories like these though...Every since reading about Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill, I've been fascinated by legends.

Emil El Zapato
2nd May 2018, 17:03
https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/838341348661936128

Spittin' image of Hecate...incidentally, in the Penny Dreadful series, she is the younger version, but decidedly lacking in empathy and at the mercy of her mother...I'm not sure it is the very same character but it seems so, they are witches.

Emil El Zapato
2nd May 2018, 17:14
After the Hecatonchires, something more soothing and Celtic/Irish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a6fXRB0Jw0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL58g24NgWPIzvBk2IQVES_xC4WTm6-CDI&time_continue=8&v=7GTjXI4xTG8

modwiz
2nd May 2018, 18:22
Spittin' image of Hecate...incidentally, in the Penny Dreadful series, she is the younger version, but decidedly lacking in empathy and at the mercy of her mother...I'm not sure it is the very same character but it seems so, they are witches.

All images of Hecate are but hints are what is almost beyond our comprehension. She does Her best to allow us to perceive Her though. If we choose to work with Her and she reciprocates.

Emil El Zapato
4th May 2018, 16:01
yeah, I like these...

It's got to be inconvenient flying around with a whetstone in your head...wouldn't wanna be Thor. One interesting thing about most tales like this, across the mythological spectrum including the abrahamic traditions, is that 'sleep' seems to be an integral and important 'meme'. Anyone have any ideas why. Off the top of mine, I would consider that sleep implies dreaming and dreaming with its connection to the other worlds might be the source. I love stories like these though...Every since reading about Paul Bunyan and Pecos Bill, I've been fascinated by legends.

Today:

"In many ancient civilizations, the night with its blackness was revered, and the secrets of nighttime consciousness explored." (me: dreaming) "Correlations were made in which such knowledge was used consciously in the daytime. The two seemingly separate aspects of consciousness merged, and there were flowerings of art and civilization that are, in your terms now, almost impossible to conceive.

- Seth -

Emil El Zapato
4th May 2018, 18:33
Today:

"In many ancient civilizations, the night with its blackness was revered, and the secrets of nighttime consciousness explored." (me: dreaming) "Correlations were made in which such knowledge was used consciously in the daytime. The two seemingly separate aspects of consciousness merged, and there were flowerings of art and civilization that are, in your terms now, almost impossible to conceive.

- Seth -

Hey Mr Wiz:

This is not a test for you, you said you read the book in 1972-73 when it was written. I'm curious, the book is a great, 'practical', model for conducting one's psychological life. Verging on brilliant in its articulation or even supernatural if the book can pass this test:

Do you still have it and if you do...Is there a Chapter 14, pg. 282 and if there is, what is the last word on the page?

thanks
NAP

modwiz
4th May 2018, 18:49
Hey Mr Wiz:

This is not a test for you, you said you read the book in 1972-73 when it was written. I'm curious, the book is a great, 'practical', model for conducting one's psychological life. Verging on brilliant in its articulation or even supernatural if the book can pass this test:

Do you still have it and if you do...Is there a Chapter 14, pg. 282 and if there is, what is the last word on the page?

thanks
NAP

Is that The Nature of Personal Reality? If so, have to go to the basement to look for it but, want to make sure.

Emil El Zapato
4th May 2018, 19:13
Is that The Nature of Personal Reality? If so, have to go to the basement to look for it but, want to make sure.

yeah, that's it...thnx... :)

modwiz
4th May 2018, 19:14
Hey Mr Wiz:

This is not a test for you, you said you read the book in 1972-73 when it was written. I'm curious, the book is a great, 'practical', model for conducting one's psychological life. Verging on brilliant in its articulation or even supernatural if the book can pass this test:

Do you still have it and if you do...Is there a Chapter 14, pg. 282 and if there is, what is the last word on the page?

thanks
NAP

I looked for the book and it would appear it is no longer in my collection. Must have given it to someone.


yeah, that's it...thnx... :)

We just missed each other.

BTW. The Seth books were great for the time they were written and still stand as intellectual engagements for getting to the higher mind/self. As a Gnostic, there are clearly a few omissions but, it is now clear to me that much very relevant information can be given while avoiding the central and most important part. It is not about who we are but, what we are.

Emil El Zapato
4th May 2018, 19:38
I looked for the book and it would appear it is no longer in my collection. Must have given it to someone.



We just missed each other.

BTW. The Seth books were great for the time they were written and still stand as intellectual engagements for getting to the higher mind/self. As a Gnostic, there are clearly a few omissions but, it is now clear to me that much very relevant information can be given while avoiding the central and most important part. It is not about who we are but, what we are.

yeah, I'll do a little research to try to figure it out...it's pretty impressive...without a little more validation, I can't draw a conclusion to the source of the info...but it is very very good info....

To me it's almost like watching a good movie, where you think you've spotted a blunder but a little later it is well explained... :)

modwiz
9th May 2018, 02:29
For something a little different is a short video on the Japanese Creation Myth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyZQXFylxsg

Maggie
10th May 2018, 00:16
Maybe this goes here? IMO Jason Reza Jorjani is really interesting. he has been labeled by some but I don't see the labels stick as I hear him.

HeqO7ZdH-Q0

Emil El Zapato
10th May 2018, 00:49
hi Maggie,

this is interesting material but one sentence in his presentation concerned me...I verified and yes, he is a victim of limited thinking...but who isn't... I don't understand the American or even human compulsion to package every potential intellectual breakthrough in conjunction with 'useless' context. It removes it from the realm of academic endeavor and makes it propaganda.

Maggie
10th May 2018, 01:58
hi Maggie,

this is interesting material but one sentence in his presentation concerned me...I verified and yes, he is a victim of limited thinking...but who isn't... I don't understand the American or even human compulsion to package every potential intellectual breakthrough in conjunction with 'useless' context. It removes it from the realm of academic endeavor and makes it propaganda.

Hi
I'd love to hear more.

Emil El Zapato
10th May 2018, 13:47
His reference to 'self-reliance' is like a piercing dog whistle in my brain...it screeches of every right wing meme in the current public consciousness. So despite his 'academic approach' it belies an 'agenda' to state that any 'other' that is underclass is failing as a human being...This simply is not the case and it is unkind, unjustified, and condescending to suggest it, if not even 'evil'.

Those thoughts led me to check his background and sure enough...there were 'allusions' to white supremacy. It is patently obvious and I will not be subverted by the meme.

But the substance of his research was really interesting.

That's it...and certainly no reflection upon you... :)

modwiz
10th May 2018, 14:01
Maybe this goes here? IMO Jason Reza Jorjani is really interesting. he has been labeled by some but I don't see the labels stick as I hear him.

HeqO7ZdH-Q0

It fits well here, Maggie. I like to listen to him even though I thought he mangled some Gnostic concepts in another interview with the same interviewer. He also gives credence to certain biblical narratives with a confidence outside of my own. He is a fresh voice to listen to and an intelligent one.

Maggie
11th May 2018, 04:00
His reference to 'self-reliance' is like a piercing dog whistle in my brain...it screeches of every right wing meme in the current public consciousness. So despite his 'academic approach' it belies an 'agenda' to state that any 'other' that is underclass is failing as a human being...This simply is not the case and it is unkind, unjustified, and condescending to suggest it, if not even 'evil'.

Those thoughts led me to check his background and sure enough...there were 'allusions' to white supremacy. It is patently obvious and I will not be subverted by the meme.

But the substance of his research was really interesting.

That's it...and certainly no reflection upon you... :)

I don't know the man and what he feels about his place in the world.
I read in the past that he is considered a fellow traveller with white supremists but he did rebuttal. It might be possible IMO for each of us to think along the same lines IN SOME AREAS with a "group" mind without being IN the group. We all pick and chooose among ideas and IMO it is pretty sad to be a fish caught on any party's line.

I am not bothered at all by the idea of "self reliance". In fact I LOVE that ideal of having "strengths and abilities", of being clever, of thriving because one has a valuable contribution. The real is that we are interdependent.To me the MORE reliant we are on our own and locally cooperating with one anothers' help the better. IMO a political/economic/social world where everyone is able to contribute and feels empowered to be able to care for self and others is what the new earth paradigm means to me. The ideal has us do all this while retaining the very best of what human's have achieved while discarding what fails to make the grade in "sense".

Self sufficiency does not mean we should all live alone in a single suburban house suffering in isolation.

For instance IMO it makes sense that we have children be seen as all our legacy to the future. IMO there would NEVER be any issue over abortion if ALL children were welcomed and supported by everyone. We know That breast feeding is important so IMO we should make it easy for the mother to be with infants. But we should not make it hard for women who birth children to also have "professional" leanings. Not all women want to be at home. All mothers who want to be home should be supported.

I don't think this ideal of INTERDEPENDENT focus and individual choices is incompatible. General emphasis on self sufficiency as I see it is reasonable. For two reasons it seems important.

1. I think everything starts in the mind and when we have in mind a feeling of being needy, IMO that then cascades into our experience. The same with feeling strong, wise and secure in one's own "place" in life.

2. IMo the only way to be truly sovereign is when not needing the hand out from the structures that uses our need to control us. That is why I think we are hypnotically suggested to be weak, frail, ill, worth little. If we just suck up to our lowly value, that suits all the systems.

There are people everywhere who are feeling threatened by loss of identity. I think it is very regressive to be any kind of supremist as a reaction to fear of loss. IMO there is NO TRUTH to ANY kind of caste system justification.

People might see me and evaluate me to be a feminist and according to their feelings about feminism judge me. Feminism is just a label and I believe in the fluidity of gender and the need for all beings to express themselves based on individual differences. IMO intelligent beings act on reason and change when needed. Concepts of equality, egality and fraternity of enlightened beings does not mean everyone is the same.

This should have been in the rant section.

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 09:32
I don't know the man and what he feels about his place in the world.
I read in the past that he is considered a fellow traveller with white supremists but he did rebuttal. It might be possible IMO for each of us to think along the same lines IN SOME AREAS with a "group" mind without being IN the group. We all pick and chooose among ideas and IMO it is pretty sad to be a fish caught on any party's line.

I am not bothered at all by the idea of "self reliance". In fact I LOVE that ideal of having "strengths and abilities", of being clever, of thriving because one has a valuable contribution. The real is that we are interdependent.To me the MORE reliant we are on our own and locally cooperating with one anothers' help the better. IMO a political/economic/social world where everyone is able to contribute and feels empowered to be able to care for self and others is what the new earth paradigm means to me. The ideal has us do all this while retaining the very best of what human's have achieved while discarding what fails to make the grade in "sense".

Self sufficiency does not mean we should all live alone in a single suburban house suffering in isolation.

For instance IMO it makes sense that we have children be seen as all our legacy to the future. IMO there would NEVER be any issue over abortion if ALL children were welcomed and supported by everyone. We know That breast feeding is important so IMO we should make it easy for the mother to be with infants. But we should not make it hard for women who birth children to also have "professional" leanings. Not all women want to be at home. All mothers who want to be home should be supported.

I don't think this ideal of INTERDEPENDENT focus and individual choices is incompatible. General emphasis on self sufficiency as I see it is reasonable. For two reasons it seems important.

1. I think everything starts in the mind and when we have in mind a feeling of being needy, IMO that then cascades into our experience. The same with feeling strong, wise and secure in one's own "place" in life.

2. IMo the only way to be truly sovereign is when not needing the hand out from the structures that uses our need to control us. That is why I think we are hypnotically suggested to be weak, frail, ill, worth little. If we just suck up to our lowly value, that suits all the systems.

There are people everywhere who are feeling threatened by loss of identity. I think it is very regressive to be any kind of supremist as a reaction to fear of loss. IMO there is NO TRUTH to ANY kind of caste system justification.

People might see me and evaluate me to be a feminist and according to their feelings about feminism judge me. Feminism is just a label and I believe in the fluidity of gender and the need for all beings to express themselves based on individual differences. IMO intelligent beings act on reason and change when needed. Concepts of equality, egality and fraternity of enlightened beings does not mean everyone is the same.

This should have been in the rant section.

yeah, I agree absolutely with what you have just posted...But you should see that there is a vast difference between your post and Jorjani's

modwiz
11th May 2018, 11:13
yeah, I agree absolutely with what you have just posted...But you should see that there is a vast difference between your post and Jorjani's

Where did Jorjani post? Maggie made both posts.:confused:

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 11:16
my bad...I referred to his video as a post...

Maggie
11th May 2018, 13:44
myth and magic are looking at the realm of "spectral phenomenon" and what I get form this philosopher is that it's our mental model building structures "spectacles" that keep us from appreciating the reality of what is now considered to be "paranormal".

8QQTZ3ZVEO4

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 14:01
He doesn't believe what he is saying or doesn't expect anyone to believe him...it is an academic exercise for him...He's more likely concerned with supremacy... :)

modwiz
11th May 2018, 14:12
myth and magic are looking at the realm of "spectral phenomenon" and what I get form this philosopher is that it's our mental model building structures "spectacles" that keep us from appreciating the reality of what is now considered to be "paranormal".

8QQTZ3ZVEO4

I very much appreciate you bringing these videos to this thread, Maggie. Jason is presenting well reasoned steps many can take at this point in our evolution as a species. There is a whole lot of fixin' to do and Jason will appeal to a hunger many have. I approve of what he is offering.

modwiz
11th May 2018, 14:36
Today we take a look at another creature in Greek mythology, the Sphinx that was said to have terrorised the ancient city of Thebes asking travels a set of riddles. Those who answered answered incorrectly would be devoured.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekLhwsZeu78

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 14:45
Removing counterproductive post

modwiz
11th May 2018, 15:04
I see this man as an introduction and pathway to greater consciousness for people still thinking is a dualistic manner. Zarathustra has great love for the Earth/Gaia and could hear Her voice. Jason has a keen perception of what lies ahead of us, as the above post brings attention to.

How one is positioned in their psyche and in relation to the Earth, has much to do with who experiences beauty and/or terror. It will be trying times ahead for us all. Watching executions, figuratively speaking, will not be so beautiful despite escaping the terror. The path to beauty will have a tragic roadside, Wisdom will prevail in its simplicity and appeal. Ignorance is a choice.

The saying, "ignorance is bliss", exemplifies this. One chooses ignorance for its perceived bliss. Its emotionally satisfying fit. Wisdom will prevail.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTZ0FGcKPuE

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 15:20
Removing counterproductive post

modwiz
11th May 2018, 15:34
Incidentally, this guy is no longer on the faculty...he got canned...

Here we go...Nietzche...

Personally, I believe that the fruit of a philosopher is directly related to their moral perspective. I suppose that seeing genocide as a positive isn't automatically bad...but I think it is bad.

Such twisting of his words are dazzling to me. The only genocide I have heard him address is the one of the Hebrews taking Canaan. He is a new voice for me. I listen with unsuspicious ears and hear different things. I do not share his savior and end times concepts.

Please cite a quote of his calling for genocide and, the people he names.

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 15:38
Removing counterproductive post

modwiz
11th May 2018, 15:52
Medusa, seriously misunderstood. Jealous gods and their fookery.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9pr2Xxaagw

And......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Po22dRCuK0

modwiz
11th May 2018, 16:53
This video need be placed here to counter rumors and vowel movements. Intellectual dishonesty, or Orwellian Newspeak, is one the challenges the Western/Modern world faces.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAY1YX1h49E

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 18:24
Removing counterproductive post

modwiz
11th May 2018, 20:51
This thread has run its course for me, it has attracted flies AND is no longer in the category it was placed in. Myth and magic is not alternate history but the future we need to reach. With that in mind, my heart is not longer in this project. Carry on.:tiphat:

enjoy being
11th May 2018, 21:03
The message within the Medusa videos was good. One other thing I pulled from it was how regardless of whether she was beautiful or cursed, the men still came after her as an object of 'desire'. A description of fate, if it can exist. Can run but cant hide. Kind of sentiment.


This thread has run its course for me, it has attracted flies AND is no longer in the category it was placed in. Myth and magic is not alternate history but the future we need to reach. With that in mind, my heart is not longer in this project. Carry on.:tiphat:

Thanks for your contributions, I was not really too interested in the sound of the topic at first, but there are indeed lessons of the psyche told. Pity about the pots and pans performer and the card shuffler.

Aragorn
11th May 2018, 21:18
Incidentally, this guy is no longer on the faculty...he got canned...

Here we go...Nietzche...

Personally, I believe that the fruit of a philosopher is directly related to their moral perspective. I suppose that seeing genocide as a positive isn't automatically bad...but I think it is bad.

Such twisting of his words are dazzling to me. The only genocide I have heard him address is the one of the Hebrews taking Canaan. He is a new voice for me. I listen with unsuspicious ears and hear different things. I do not share his savior and end times concepts.

Please cite a quote of his calling for genocide and, the people he names.

No, I don't care to do that...I have made up my mind for me...that's all the matters...to either one of us.

You are being intellectually dishonest, NotAPretender, and I'm afraid to have to say this, but I've seen you do that before.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I personally don't particularly like a lot of what I've heard that guy say in the video — at least, in the part that I could afford the time to listen to, because I simply don't have the time to listen to everything — but an opinion is one thing, and spouting unfounded allegations is another.

So now you've got a choice: either you back up your claim, or you take back what you've said. But one cannot have a serious and honest discussion if you're simply going to be throwing prejudices around and then state that you cannot be bothered backing up your words with facts.

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 21:37
Removing counterproductive post

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 21:53
I'm reading a book written in 1750 called The Phantom World

Angels, Magic, Apparitions, Vampires, Witchcraft, Possession by Demons and the Dead Who Come Back to Life....


I'll be baaaccckkkkk!!! Unless I get removed of course...

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 22:31
This information, meta-information, context, and presentation can be intellectually spun in any direction one chooses but, in truth, its fabric spins in only one direction...I apologize to any offended, I really didn't see the point to 'rubbin it in' but sometimes that is requested.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=483&v=3xD9NdBbEPM

Aragorn
11th May 2018, 22:51
[...] I'm not into backing up anything I say...that isn't my point. It merely prolongs the agony for everyone. [...]

No, that is exactly why it's dishonest. Making claims and expecting people to accept them without that you supply any evidence for said claims is propaganda.

Propaganda is a one-way street, not a discussion. It does not lead to all parties involved gaining any knowledge or wisdom from the discussion, but instead to one party indoctrinating the other parties with his/her own vision/ideology/opinions. I think the current state of the US American society — and of large parts of Europe — would be evidential enough of how and why indoctrination and propaganda are bad.

Fairness dictates that if you have an opinion which would disrupt the natural flow of the discussion because of any objectionable qualities associated with the sources being cited in the discussion, then you should either present the evidence as justification for the disruption of said discussion, or refrain from disrupting the discussion altogether in the first place. If you do not provide a verifiable justification for why you are disrupting a discussion, then all you will have brought to the discussion is the very disruption itself.

In the Dutch language, we have an expression for that, which translates to English as "throwing a stick into the hen house." And that's exactly what a troll would do. Not that I'm calling you a troll, of course. I am merely confronting you with the dishonesty of your tactic, because I believe that you yourself may not even be aware of this dishonesty, given that — as I said higher up already — it isn't the first time you do this.

I distinctly remember that not too long ago, you were full of prejudice on account of both Abby Martin as an individual and RT as a news network — even though Abby Martin hasn't even been working for RT anymore in years — and that, after I confronted you about your prejudices, you had to admit that you had been wrong, and especially on account of Abby Martin.





I'll be baaaccckkkkk!!! Unless I get removed of course...

Don't be silly. :rolleyes:

Emil El Zapato
11th May 2018, 22:58
No, that is exactly why it's dishonest. Making claims and expecting people to accept them without that you supply any evidence for said claims is propaganda.

Propaganda is a one-way street, not a discussion. It does not lead to all parties involved gaining any knowledge or wisdom from the discussion, but instead to one party indoctrinating the other parties with his/her own vision/ideology/opinions. I think the current state of the US American society — and of large parts of Europe — would be evidential enough of how and why indoctrination and propaganda are bad.

Fairness dictates that if you have an opinion which would disrupt the natural flow of the discussion because of any objectionable qualities associated with the sources being cited in the discussion, then you should either present the evidence as justification for the disruption of said discussion, or refrain from disrupting the discussion altogether in the first place. If you do not provide a verifiable justification for why you are disrupting a discussion, then all you will have brought to the discussion is the very disruption itself.

In the Dutch language, we have an expression for that, which translates to English as "throwing a stick into the hen house." And that's exactly what a troll would do. Not that I'm calling you a troll, of course. I am merely confronting you with the dishonesty of your tactic, because I believe that you yourself may not even be aware of this dishonesty, given that — as I said higher up already — it isn't the first time you do this.

I distinctly remember that not too long ago, you were full of prejudice on account of both Abby Martin as an individual and RT as a news network — even though Abby Martin hasn't even been working for RT anymore in years — and that, after I confronted you about your prejudices, you had to admit that you had been wrong, and especially on account of Abby Martin.






Don't be silly. :rolleyes:

True about Abby Martin...but I wasn't dishonest...I was being...being...being...stupid. We can call it stupid but it was really just wrong...so if being wrong is stupid then I was stupid...on the other hand if being wrong is just being wrong then I was wrong... :) I'm still not fully convinced...full disclosure...and I say that not to be 'disruptive' rather to be honest. Whatever her motivation, she is surely a dedicated journalist and as such I hold her in full respect (until she admits she is a Russian propagandist...but not until then)

enjoy being
12th May 2018, 03:08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ1wfVYVOL4
I just like the graphics in the start of this video above.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnOWHeJNbZM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h75TYfD_GM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5YgA_b9Mtw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkVMdwPkEyg

enjoy being
12th May 2018, 04:03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6q8E1laQjY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN5Wo0_E9j4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV2tuJv4GkQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgxifXxMHAw

Elen
12th May 2018, 07:46
I've never done that...so ok...The truth always outs in the end...so here we go:

never mind...I am stating opinions...how could I do anything else...ban me if you like...I'm not into backing up anything I say...that isn't my point. It merely prolongs the agony for everyone. I placed my honest opinion out there...I know it is true and that's good enough for me...

The nuance of this guy's words speak vastly louder to me than his words. Wouldn't you rather discover that on your own?

Opinions are something that you have when you have made up your own mind. How can you have an opinion when you just reiterate somebody else's opinion? It's pretty hard to change a mind that is not your own. (I see this all the time with religious people). Very often it's wiser to say nothing. :wiz: Please...

Emil El Zapato
12th May 2018, 13:45
you know that is a bit of true wisdom there...something for me to listen to...but...

I listened first and I heard words that are 'signals' to me about where the speaker is coming from. That is why i checked his background...it corroborated what my instincts were telling me. Unfortunately when that happens I form an opinion.

Morality matters...period. It matters not from whence it comes. I have been trying to find ways to explain to Modwiz that Gaian worship is no holier than Abrahamic tradition, nor less than. That is the vital lesson to be learned. It is about what our individual spirits are saying to us where we gain insight. Allegiance is a poor substitute for faith...

And most importantly it is misguided to 'condemn and criticize' others spiritual orientation.

I have no idea how, really no idea, how ancient traditional spiritual beliefs have morphed into white supremacy but it is occurring. And it seems exceedingly, exceedingly strange to me.

Emil El Zapato
12th May 2018, 14:05
Perhaps it is what my daughter refers to as 'Cultural Appropriation'? Another form of 'colonialism'?

It is the Archontic infection in its living breathing manifestation?

Dreamtimer
12th May 2018, 14:17
Cultural appropriation is a tricky term. If you're trying to be something you're not, then it can apply. But if you're recognizing, enjoying, participating in a culture, it's not appropriation.

People need to be able to celebrate culture without worrying about being accused of appropriating. We'll be fighting over every bit of clothing, jewelry, speech and song if we go too far down that road.

Consider the fact of peoples all over the world living together with different cultural traditions. We can't all be in specialized enclaves, as in ghettos.


So don't pretend you're an Indian, as in American. Just know what it means when you wear something and be able to tell about it. Give the people credit. That's sharing culture.

Emil El Zapato
12th May 2018, 15:20
Oh yeah, we all do it all the time...

When my daughter complained about that it gave me pause...I didn't disagree with her because I want her to find her own way in terms of values (as long as they have a solid foundation, of course). But what I didn't say was that I view cultural appropriation as a measure of respect. But as long as the motivation is pure...ah, there I say it...purity...it is all about purity...moral purity...

Moral purity holds a place of prominence in my consciousness. We can do, say, feel anything we want as long as our motives are pure!

Emil El Zapato
12th May 2018, 16:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ1wfVYVOL4

The creation story:

The swirl (it seems obvious now) is analogous to the Mayan 'G' symbolising the Cosmic Father = creation/universe and the Tree, of course 'T' is integral to knowledge, life.

modwiz
13th May 2018, 18:16
I have abandoned this thread. It is was removed from the relevant category and, other issues that make efforts to expand our connection to a greater reality fruitless in the current forum environment and composition of members.

:tiphat:

modwiz
13th May 2018, 20:36
:tiphat:

Emil El Zapato
13th May 2018, 21:49
Interesting I always took the Goldilocks story to mean that Goldilocks was a presumptious little b*tch going into somebody's house and making herself at home...really :)

Aianawa
15th May 2018, 00:37
To know you do not get it, is important.

enjoy being
15th May 2018, 00:41
A book on the Patupaiarehe of NZ. An excerpt of which I placed in the Lounge thread too... They are often referred to as fairy folk, but their description is more like a demigod race of sorts, within the book are tales of encounters with them. These are not the only mythical beings spoken of in NZ, some seem to be 'just' peoples of early inhabitance of NZ, who could well have been ancestors of the Lemurian culture and others.



Fairy Folk Tales of the Maori (http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-CowFair-t1-front-d5.html)

Fairy Folk Tales of the Maori — Introduction — Maori Legends of the “Patu-paiarehe.”

A New Zealand poet once lamented the dearth of fairy lore in these islands, and in his ignorance made complaint:

Why have we in these isles no fairy dell,
No haunted wood, nor wild enchanted mere?

He declared that this lack of faerie glamour must be filled by the imaginative writer—“The poet's art—as yet without avail—must weave the story.” It was unfortunate that a writer with so sympathetic a muse had never heard of the Maori's rich store of fairy legend and wonder-tale, of endless folk-talk about the supernatural, the sprites of the woods, the elusive Patu-paiarehe, the mysterious wild men of the mountains, the strange spirits that haunt great pools at river-sources, and streams and lakes. For all this in endless variety we have in New Zealand. There is not another country, not even Ireland or the fairy ridden Isle of Man, so full of folk-memories and primitive beliefs of this kind. The only reason that the pakeha does not know of it is that very, very few have gone to the trouble to delve into this class of myth and tradition and preserve while there is yet time the curious and poetic tales which crystallize for us the old Maori belief in unseen presences and the fairy folk that haunted many a lofty mountain and many a shadowy wood.

Fairies, giants, fabulous monsters, marvel-working magicians, strange apparitions of forest and alp, have ever been found in countries of such a mountainous, broken and generously-wooded character as New Zealand, and it would be strange indeed if so imaginative a race as the Maori-Polynesian had not peopled the land with all manner of curious extra-human beings.

Poetic above all the other myths of the strange and supernatural are the many stories which tell of that mystic race the Patu-paiarehe. This name Patu-paiarehe is the term applied by the Maori to the mysterious forest-dwelling people who for want of a more exact term may be described as the fairies of New Zealand. They are spoken of as an iwi-atua, a race of supernatural beings, and they are accredited with some of the marvellous powers attributed to the world of faerie in many other parts of the globe. Some folk-tales of the Maori describe them as little people, but the native fancy does not usually picture them the tiny elves common to the old-world fairydom. Most of the legends I have gathered give them the ordinary stature of mortals, while at the same time investing them with some of the characteristics of the enchanted tribes of other lands.

The Patu-paiarehe were for the most part of much lighter complexion than the Maori; their hair was of the dull golden or reddish hue “uru-kehu,” such as is sometimes seen among the Maoris of to-day. They inhabited the remote parts of the wooded ranges, preferring the highest peaks such as Hihikiwi, on Mount Pirongia, and the summit of Te Aroha. They ventured out only by night and on days of heavy clouds and fog. They lived on forest foods, but sometimes they resorted to the shores of sea and lake for fish.

They had a great aversion to the steam rising from the Maori cooking-ovens, and to the sight and smell of kokowai, the red ochre (hæmatite earth mixed with shark oil) with which the Maori bedaubed his dwelling and himself. They were greatly skilled in all manner of enchantments and magic, and they often employed these arts of gramarie to bewilder and terrify the iwi Maori. Nevertheless we find them at times living on good terms with their Maori neighbours, and indeed (see the Story of Tarapikau in “The Wars of the Fairies”) guarding the interests of their friends of the outer world and resenting any interference by Patu-paiarehe from another district.

The Patu-paiarehe, in a number of these fairy tales, constituted themselves the guardians of sacred places and visited their displeasure on those who neglected the rites for the propitiation of the forest deities.

This class of folk-tales no doubt originated in the actual existence of numerous tribes of aborigines who dwelt for safety in the more inaccessible parts of these islands. Many of them were reddish-haired, with fairer complexions than those of the Maori; the remnants of an immeasurably ancient fair-haired people who have left a strain of uru-kehu in most Maori tribes. As in the case of the ancient Picts (whence the word “pixy”), who were driven to take refuge in the caves and mountains of Scotland and Wales and the Peak of Derbyshire, the forest-dwelling refugees of New Zealand gradually became to the more powerful race an enchanted wizardly tribe, possessed of powers of transformation and of becoming invisible at will. The Patu-paiarehe were, as a rule, shy and peace-loving. The fiercer foresters, the Maero of legend, were not unlike the Fynnoderee of Manx country tales who played malevolent tricks on the farmer folk.

The dense and thickly-matted character of the New Zealand forest, with a closely-woven roof of foliage through which the sunshine was filtered to a twilight, in the inner sanctuaries of the Wao-tapu-nui-a-Tane, made strong impression on the imaginative Maori mind, and it was natural to people the heart of the bush with unseen presences and supernatural creatures. The conjecture-provoking sounds heard in the forest in the quiet of the night, noises known to those who have bivouacked much in the high woods, heightened the popular belief in the existence of fairy folk.

Patu-paiarehe legendry in the North Island, so far as my enquiries go, is associated chiefly with the forested peaks of the Waikato-Waipa basin, the Cape Colville-Te Aroha range, and the hills about Lake Rotorua. That beautiful mountain Kake-puku, in the Waipa Valley, was a fairy resort; there is a deep wooded valley on the western side beloved of the Patu-paiarehe from Pirongia mountain. They did not venture to other parts of the mountain because they sometimes saw the Maori fires burning on the summit and on the eastern and northern sides. Their path was in the drifting clouds and low-lying banks of fog like the Irish fairy king in William Allingham's old song:

“With a bridge of white mist
Columbkill he crosses,
On his stately journeys
From Slieveleague to Rosses.”

In the South Island the sterner character of the landscapes, the tremendous craggy heights that wall Lake Wakatipu about, the vast white chain of the Alps, the solitudes of the tussock prairie, the silent forests, the deep, dark blue alpine lakes, tended to provide grim legends of the Maeroero, the page 7 wild men and giants of the mountains, rather than folk-talk of the Patu-paiarehe. There was also a basis of fact in the historical tradition of the Ngati-Mamoe fugitives driven into the trackless forests of the great south-west, there to disappear, to vanish like the moa. “They still haunt the western forests,” said an old man of mingled Ngati-Mamoe and Ngai-Tahu blood, when we discussed the mystery of the vanished clan of his people. “They are an iwi-atua, gifted with supernatural powers. The reason they are not seen by pakeha explorers is that they can call down the mists and clouds of the mountains to conceal them, as they did long ago when they were pursued into the wilderness beyond Lake Te Anau. Na te kohu i whakaora—the fog is their salvation.”*
....

Emil El Zapato
15th May 2018, 00:46
To know you do not get it, is important.

:) Ok, I was being nice...I do get it...but I think it was unnecessary... :)

Aianawa
15th May 2018, 00:51
To know you know you know is refusal of that which you do not wish to know.

You got some good flow today EnjoyB

Emil El Zapato
15th May 2018, 00:59
A book on the Patupaiarehe of NZ. An excerpt of which I placed in the Lounge thread too... They are often referred to as fairy folk, but their description is more like a demigod race of sorts, within the book are tales of encounters with them. These are not the only mythical beings spoken of in NZ, some seem to be 'just' peoples of early inhabitance of NZ, who could well have been ancestors of the Lemurian culture and others.



Fairy Folk Tales of the Maori (http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-CowFair-t1-front-d5.html)

Fairy Folk Tales of the Maori — Introduction — Maori Legends of the “Patu-paiarehe.”

A New Zealand poet once lamented the dearth of fairy lore in these islands, and in his ignorance made complaint:

Why have we in these isles no fairy dell,
No haunted wood, nor wild enchanted mere?

He declared that this lack of faerie glamour must be filled by the imaginative writer—“The poet's art—as yet without avail—must weave the story.” It was unfortunate that a writer with so sympathetic a muse had never heard of the Maori's rich store of fairy legend and wonder-tale, of endless folk-talk about the supernatural, the sprites of the woods, the elusive Patu-paiarehe, the mysterious wild men of the mountains, the strange spirits that haunt great pools at river-sources, and streams and lakes. For all this in endless variety we have in New Zealand. There is not another country, not even Ireland or the fairy ridden Isle of Man, so full of folk-memories and primitive beliefs of this kind. The only reason that the pakeha does not know of it is that very, very few have gone to the trouble to delve into this class of myth and tradition and preserve while there is yet time the curious and poetic tales which crystallize for us the old Maori belief in unseen presences and the fairy folk that haunted many a lofty mountain and many a shadowy wood.

Fairies, giants, fabulous monsters, marvel-working magicians, strange apparitions of forest and alp, have ever been found in countries of such a mountainous, broken and generously-wooded character as New Zealand, and it would be strange indeed if so imaginative a race as the Maori-Polynesian had not peopled the land with all manner of curious extra-human beings.

Poetic above all the other myths of the strange and supernatural are the many stories which tell of that mystic race the Patu-paiarehe. This name Patu-paiarehe is the term applied by the Maori to the mysterious forest-dwelling people who for want of a more exact term may be described as the fairies of New Zealand. They are spoken of as an iwi-atua, a race of supernatural beings, and they are accredited with some of the marvellous powers attributed to the world of faerie in many other parts of the globe. Some folk-tales of the Maori describe them as little people, but the native fancy does not usually picture them the tiny elves common to the old-world fairydom. Most of the legends I have gathered give them the ordinary stature of mortals, while at the same time investing them with some of the characteristics of the enchanted tribes of other lands.

The Patu-paiarehe were for the most part of much lighter complexion than the Maori; their hair was of the dull golden or reddish hue “uru-kehu,” such as is sometimes seen among the Maoris of to-day. They inhabited the remote parts of the wooded ranges, preferring the highest peaks such as Hihikiwi, on Mount Pirongia, and the summit of Te Aroha. They ventured out only by night and on days of heavy clouds and fog. They lived on forest foods, but sometimes they resorted to the shores of sea and lake for fish.

They had a great aversion to the steam rising from the Maori cooking-ovens, and to the sight and smell of kokowai, the red ochre (hæmatite earth mixed with shark oil) with which the Maori bedaubed his dwelling and himself. They were greatly skilled in all manner of enchantments and magic, and they often employed these arts of gramarie to bewilder and terrify the iwi Maori. Nevertheless we find them at times living on good terms with their Maori neighbours, and indeed (see the Story of Tarapikau in “The Wars of the Fairies”) guarding the interests of their friends of the outer world and resenting any interference by Patu-paiarehe from another district.

The Patu-paiarehe, in a number of these fairy tales, constituted themselves the guardians of sacred places and visited their displeasure on those who neglected the rites for the propitiation of the forest deities.

This class of folk-tales no doubt originated in the actual existence of numerous tribes of aborigines who dwelt for safety in the more inaccessible parts of these islands. Many of them were reddish-haired, with fairer complexions than those of the Maori; the remnants of an immeasurably ancient fair-haired people who have left a strain of uru-kehu in most Maori tribes. As in the case of the ancient Picts (whence the word “pixy”), who were driven to take refuge in the caves and mountains of Scotland and Wales and the Peak of Derbyshire, the forest-dwelling refugees of New Zealand gradually became to the more powerful race an enchanted wizardly tribe, possessed of powers of transformation and of becoming invisible at will. The Patu-paiarehe were, as a rule, shy and peace-loving. The fiercer foresters, the Maero of legend, were not unlike the Fynnoderee of Manx country tales who played malevolent tricks on the farmer folk.

The dense and thickly-matted character of the New Zealand forest, with a closely-woven roof of foliage through which the sunshine was filtered to a twilight, in the inner sanctuaries of the Wao-tapu-nui-a-Tane, made strong impression on the imaginative Maori mind, and it was natural to people the heart of the bush with unseen presences and supernatural creatures. The conjecture-provoking sounds heard in the forest in the quiet of the night, noises known to those who have bivouacked much in the high woods, heightened the popular belief in the existence of fairy folk.

Patu-paiarehe legendry in the North Island, so far as my enquiries go, is associated chiefly with the forested peaks of the Waikato-Waipa basin, the Cape Colville-Te Aroha range, and the hills about Lake Rotorua. That beautiful mountain Kake-puku, in the Waipa Valley, was a fairy resort; there is a deep wooded valley on the western side beloved of the Patu-paiarehe from Pirongia mountain. They did not venture to other parts of the mountain because they sometimes saw the Maori fires burning on the summit and on the eastern and northern sides. Their path was in the drifting clouds and low-lying banks of fog like the Irish fairy king in William Allingham's old song:

“With a bridge of white mist
Columbkill he crosses,
On his stately journeys
From Slieveleague to Rosses.”

In the South Island the sterner character of the landscapes, the tremendous craggy heights that wall Lake Wakatipu about, the vast white chain of the Alps, the solitudes of the tussock prairie, the silent forests, the deep, dark blue alpine lakes, tended to provide grim legends of the Maeroero, the Patu-paiarehe legendry in the North Island, so far as my enquiries go, is associated chiefly with the forested peaks of the Waikato-Waipa basin, the Cape Colville-Te Aroha range, and the hills about Lake Rotorua. That beautiful mountain Kake-puku, in the Waipa Valley, was a fairy resort; there is a deep wooded valley on the western side beloved of the Patu-paiarehe from Pirongia mountain. They did not venture to other parts of the mountain because they sometimes saw the Maori fires burning on the summit and on the eastern and northern sides. Their path was in the drifting clouds and low-lying banks of fog like the Irish fairy king in William Allingham's old song:

“With a bridge of white mist
Columbkill he crosses,
On his stately journeys
From Slieveleague to Rosses.”

In the South Island the sterner character of the landscapes, the tremendous craggy heights that wall Lake Wakatipu about, the vast white chain of the Alps, the solitudes of the tussock prairie, the silent forests, the deep, dark blue alpine lakes, tended to provide grim legends of the Maeroero, the wild men and giants of the mountains, rather than folk-talk of the Patu-paiarehe. There was also a basis of fact in the historical tradition of the Ngati-Mamoe fugitives driven into the trackless forests of the great south-west, there to disappear, to vanish like the moa. “They still haunt the western forests,” said an old man of mingled Ngati-Mamoe and Ngai-Tahu blood, when we discussed the mystery of the vanished clan of his people. “They are an iwi-atua, gifted with supernatural powers. The reason they are not seen by pakeha explorers is that they can call down the mists and clouds of the mountains to conceal them, as they did long ago when they were pursued into the wilderness beyond Lake Te Anau. Na te kohu i whakaora—the fog is their salvation.”*
....

This is good...the complexion of the Patu-paiarehe is interesting. It matches descriptions of 'ancient people'. Lemuria is the origin? Funny about that because just recently I read a description of the Atlanteans and they were described as 'dark' as in brown...Homer I believe.


To know you know you know is refusal of that which you do not wish to know.

You got some good flow today EnjoyB

hmmm, it can be an affront...but I always find my way out... :)

Aianawa
15th May 2018, 01:14
More mirrors than ostriches though plenty of sand and many guru's (lite showers/wayseers ) abounding la shire

enjoy being
15th May 2018, 01:16
There's Hawaiiki referred to as the original land by most Pacific cultures.

But there is also reference to that also being The Land of Mu. Which is considered another name for Lemuria. But these are distinctly different. Recently a 'new' continent has been more openly spoken of.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Zealandia_topography.jpg/1200px-Zealandia_topography.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia
https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/97323821/sunken-continent-zealandia-used-to-be-closer-to-the-surface-with-a-very-different-climate

So Hawaiiki is one place in modern ancient history, where as Lemuria is much older.
It seems fairly agreed upon that Hawaiiki is in fact Hawaii.
The third installation of Under the Carpet - Cousins across the Sea (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9nGHrLWlic) can fill some of that info in.

There's the legend of Maui across the pacific. And then there is also a tale of an Egyptian navigator named Maui. Rata also being another maori name, and can describe the man Kupe.
http://21sci-tech.com/articles/fall01/navigators/navigators.html

Stories of Lemuria however are indeed harder to anchor. And they are of mythical origins of people who were part ethereal beings. New Zealand does get mentioned within them of what can be found, and often is referred to as a spiritual place even then. Though, such things are not found from historical documents written down and are but sensed commentary from the clair family of intuits.

Dreamtimer
15th May 2018, 08:28
clair family of intuits.

So many great phrases and words here. Maybe I'll make a little book.

enjoy being
15th May 2018, 08:35
Reading more into Lemuria and Mu, there is also someone calling Mu, Pan. And that person claims Lemuria is not Mu, and claims Atlantis was North America. So much guessing in relation to this lost time. But it feels like the truth is coming closer to the surface.

enjoy being
17th May 2018, 11:01
Perhaps it is what my daughter refers to as 'Cultural Appropriation'? Another form of 'colonialism'?

It is the Archontic infection in its living breathing manifestation?


Cultural appropriation is a tricky term. If you're trying to be something you're not, then it can apply. But if you're recognizing, enjoying, participating in a culture, it's not appropriation.

People need to be able to celebrate culture without worrying about being accused of appropriating. We'll be fighting over every bit of clothing, jewelry, speech and song if we go too far down that road.

Consider the fact of peoples all over the world living together with different cultural traditions. We can't all be in specialized enclaves, as in ghettos.


So don't pretend you're an Indian, as in American. Just know what it means when you wear something and be able to tell about it. Give the people credit. That's sharing culture.

There's a bit of a twist with this topic in my sight. I have just been watching a discussion on the Maori channel where young Maori talk about social issues and what it means to be Maori.
Earlier today I was talking to my father on a related topic. The racial divisions between Euro NZ (pakeha) and Maori is a bit sad really.
My way of seeing it is that the empire building British failed to conquer Maori with disease, war, or drugs, so resorted to treaty trickery. The division this has caused over the years has left echoes in which both peoples are stuck in a false view of themselves and each other.
The Maori way in which I have been relaying here over months, is to me, old human. It is not just Maori way. There are customs and rituals for sure which are the Maori way of expressing the old ways of all humanity, and some of them apply to them specially. As in it is their culture and narrative. The wisdom is pretty much the same. The legends are repeated across the pacific with a very similar language. Like a canoe in Hawaii is a Wa'a and in NZ is a Waka, and so on. There's proof of there being one big pacific family with the same stories. Underlying, the wisdom belongs to everyone.

But listening to these 20-30 something year old maori who are self aware and know their whakapapa and their reo, and identify as Maori, they still describe themselves as colonised. And they say one of the differences between Maori and Pakeha is that a Pakeha sees themselves as an individual entity, where as the Maori see them self as a part of a group. And it then goes further to identify capitalism and western ideals, consumerism, spiritual bankruptcy (in ways).. all the things we speak of here as being negative, deep state, archontic, or what have you, is labelled as being Pakeha. Which is 'sort of true' but not really eh, they are in effect labelling it as a racial thing. Putting all that is 'wrong' with the world, in the descriptor of, Pakeha, white people.
This denies Pakeha an identity really if you see what I am trying to get at. If a NZ European wants to live their life in way which is parallel to Maori considerations, then effectively, they may be seen as trying to be Maori?
The impetus is on Europeans to prove themselves as not being Pakeha? It is all terminology in ways, but describes the line in the sand drawn. All that is bad is effectively there to be blamed or labelled as Pakeha or NZ European, instead of what it really is.
American gangster culture has slipped in easy to some Maori and Pacific Islanders, and too some Europeans, but with it there is another group formed, a hybrid that doesn't know what it is to be Maori, embraces the victim hood of Black American gangster rap, and blames the white man, but they are void of any culture really, just empty vessels playing on their colour and using it as an excuse for the confusion and 'normal' youth rebellion. In which when there is a cause to blame instead of looking at self, all that gets propagated is division.
The two philosophies of the individual and the group, where each has some flaws which cut off the path back to togetherness.

In the hope to bring this back on topic, as it really is an aside, I do see this same story playing out within people's own local mythos.

Dreamtimer
17th May 2018, 11:29
In America the white man is Pahana.

I imagine there are similar dynamics though I don't know the connection to ancient pacific cultures. On the reservations white people are also referred to as Euros. Like the currency, though that wasn't the origin.

That community mentality you talk about is now being called communism and therefore evil and wrong. In this country the hatred towards communal actions is getting acute. I'm not sure how that's going to end.

It doesn't go with actual christian values and, imo, there's some serious religious karma coming.

If someone wants to live a life of community here it's possible and you don't have to take on a new identity. It's easier in the Northwest.

If you want to become involved in indian culture and societies you would need to demonstrate sincerity with work. That would involve health issues, economic issues, and government issues - as in Bureau of Indian Affairs.

I hope I stayed on point, at least somewhat.

Emil El Zapato
17th May 2018, 12:39
There's Hawaiiki referred to as the original land by most Pacific cultures.

But there is also reference to that also being The Land of Mu. Which is considered another name for Lemuria. But these are distinctly different. Recently a 'new' continent has been more openly spoken of.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Zealandia_topography.jpg/1200px-Zealandia_topography.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia
https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/97323821/sunken-continent-zealandia-used-to-be-closer-to-the-surface-with-a-very-different-climate

So Hawaiiki is one place in modern ancient history, where as Lemuria is much older.
It seems fairly agreed upon that Hawaiiki is in fact Hawaii.
The third installation of Under the Carpet - Cousins across the Sea (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9nGHrLWlic) can fill some of that info in.

There's the legend of Maui across the pacific. And then there is also a tale of an Egyptian navigator named Maui. Rata also being another maori name, and can describe the man Kupe.
http://21sci-tech.com/articles/fall01/navigators/navigators.html

Stories of Lemuria however are indeed harder to anchor. And they are of mythical origins of people who were part ethereal beings. New Zealand does get mentioned within them of what can be found, and often is referred to as a spiritual place even then. Though, such things are not found from historical documents written down and are but sensed commentary from the clair family of intuits.

interesting again...one of the things that I've found fascinating about Hawaii and I posted about some time back...neither Mosquitoes or snakes (not to mention car horns) are indigenous to Hawaii...talk about paradise...


There's a bit of a twist with this topic in my sight. I have just been watching a discussion on the Maori channel where young Maori talk about social issues and what it means to be Maori.
Earlier today I was talking to my father on a related topic. The racial divisions between Euro NZ (pakeha) and Maori is a bit sad really.
My way of seeing it is that the empire building British failed to conquer Maori with disease, war, or drugs, so resorted to treaty trickery. The division this has caused over the years has left echoes in which both peoples are stuck in a false view of themselves and each other.
The Maori way in which I have been relaying here over months, is to me, old human. It is not just Maori way. There are customs and rituals for sure which are the Maori way of expressing the old ways of all humanity, and some of them apply to them specially. As in it is their culture and narrative. The wisdom is pretty much the same. The legends are repeated across the pacific with a very similar language. Like a canoe in Hawaii is a Wa'a and in NZ is a Waka, and so on. There's proof of there being one big pacific family with the same stories. Underlying, the wisdom belongs to everyone.

But listening to these 20-30 something year old maori who are self aware and know their whakapapa and their reo, and identify as Maori, they still describe themselves as colonised. And they say one of the differences between Maori and Pakeha is that a Pakeha sees themselves as an individual entity, where as the Maori see them self as a part of a group. And it then goes further to identify capitalism and western ideals, consumerism, spiritual bankruptcy (in ways).. all the things we speak of here as being negative, deep state, archontic, or what have you, is labelled as being Pakeha. Which is 'sort of true' but not really eh, they are in effect labelling it as a racial thing. Putting all that is 'wrong' with the world, in the descriptor of, Pakeha, white people.
This denies Pakeha an identity really if you see what I am trying to get at. If a NZ European wants to live their life in way which is parallel to Maori considerations, then effectively, they may be seen as trying to be Maori?
The impetus is on Europeans to prove themselves as not being Pakeha? It is all terminology in ways, but describes the line in the sand drawn. All that is bad is effectively there to be blamed or labelled as Pakeha or NZ European, instead of what it really is.
American gangster culture has slipped in easy to some Maori and Pacific Islanders, and too some Europeans, but with it there is another group formed, a hybrid that doesn't know what it is to be Maori, embraces the victim hood of Black American gangster rap, and blames the white man, but they are void of any culture really, just empty vessels playing on their colour and using it as an excuse for the confusion and 'normal' youth rebellion. In which when there is a cause to blame instead of looking at self, all that gets propagated is division.
The two philosophies of the individual and the group, where each has some flaws which cut off the path back to togetherness.

In the hope to bring this back on topic, as it really is an aside, I do see this same story playing out within people's own local mythos.

Amen to that...I've been around those types here in America and my advice to them is though there is truth in their thoughts to dwell on them will destroy them.


In America the white man is Pahana.

I imagine there are similar dynamics though I don't know the connection to ancient pacific cultures. On the reservations white people are also referred to as Euros. Like the currency, though that wasn't the origin.

That community mentality you talk about is now being called communism and therefore evil and wrong. In this country the hatred towards communal actions is getting acute. I'm not sure how that's going to end.

It doesn't go with actual christian values and, imo, there's some serious religious karma coming.

If someone wants to live a life of community here it's possible and you don't have to take on a new identity. It's easier in the Northwest.

If you want to become involved in indian culture and societies you would need to demonstrate sincerity with work. That would involve health issues, economic issues, and government issues - as in Bureau of Indian Affairs.

I hope I stayed on point, at least somewhat.

very good stuff, Dreamtimer...you and EB are speaking my language now... :)

Elen
17th May 2018, 12:57
interesting again...one of the things that I've found fascinating about Hawaii and I posted about some time back...neither Mosquitoes or snakes (not to mention car horns) are indigenous to Hawaii...talk about paradise...



Amen to that...I've been around those types here in America and my advice to them is though there is truth in their thoughts to dwell on them will destroy them.



very good stuff, Dreamtimer...you and EB are speaking my language now... :)

Ditto. We all come from different places on our planet, but I think we "speak the same language" somehow. I can only recall what happened with the Celts, which then turned into Viking warriors which has gotten a really bad rap...because they were successful to a certain degree, but they lost the war, however I can assure you that it has never been forgotten completely. Personally I remember a peaceful existence and in touch with the planet on many levels.

Dumpster Diver
17th May 2018, 12:58
No mosquitoes in Hawaii?

I’ll have to inform those that bit me on Big Island, Oahu, and Kauai that they don’t exist.

Emil El Zapato
17th May 2018, 13:07
No mosquitoes in Hawaii?

I’ll have to inform those that bit me on Big Island, Oahu, and Kauai that they don’t exist.

Not 'indigenous' DD...pay attention...just kidding... :)

b.t.w. Those two videos that I posted in Keep Trying's thread about anti-grav...I think support your 'electric' universe hypothesis

Dreamtimer
17th May 2018, 20:53
I think you're right about the bad rap, Elen. I've heard that Viking was just a title for a job. Overall the people were explorers, traders, etc.

The pahana that first came was friendly and had respect for nature. I've heard stories about different peoples waiting for the return of pahana and wondering whether he would still be brother or would be enemy.

I think they got their answer...:wry::shocked:

enjoy being
17th May 2018, 21:45
Yep. So the choice of favourite bandwagon to project upon. Race, usually it seems, but gender or wealth or whichever poison one likes to trade in.
The lobbing of concerns from the internally discontent.
It's surrogacy.
But what is the solution. Well the second solution after identifying the existence of the personal bouncy castle.
Or the group bouncy castle... one in which the projection can be galvanised.
Well, all I can see as a next step is disengaging yourself from that partnership when you find your role.
Not abandoning, but becoming a different projection, or a non target.
The onus is in those who can see the archetypes being projected, and becoming the exceptions.
Which ought come just by being and doing, inner resolution.
Here, if the Pakeha tipped over into NOT being symbolic of others leaning posts, then I feel the Maori have the other part of the equation, and that is of forgiveness and acceptance in their role in a humanity rather than the lock down of the closed circle many seem to wish to propagate.