PDA

View Full Version : Magic and Witchcraft: The Beginning



Emil El Zapato
21st April 2018, 20:15
This is an open thread, open to any post that one wishes to add. It isn’t as if it really matters anyway. Humanity only sees and hears the meme, memes are very catchy, almost as if they are an infection that enables sight and sound.

These are excerpts from Lyall Watson’s book Dark Nature
Lyall Watson: a South African botanist, zoologist, biologist, anthropologist, ethologist

“Ever since there were humans, there have been human desires. These differ from culture to culture, but the one fact common to all people everywhere is that nobody’s desires are ever completely satisfied. We always want more. More food, more land, more women, more children, more power, more respect, more money, more freedom—whatever. And as each desire is temporarily sated, the need transfers, automatically to another kind of hunger. In most other species, needs are constrained by ecological realities and, though competition persists, communities settle into more or less stable sets of relationships. Humans changed all that by turning natural needs into more disruptive “wants” and set in train our most universal characteristic, a tendency to disturb the ecology by trying to control it to our own advantage.

Our first attempts were probably directed at increasing productivity, and took the form of projecting our own internal desires onto the external world. Something we seem to have begun to do very early, perhaps as soon as we gave up scavenging and learned to hunt. Hunting is a risky business, a hit-or-miss affair, and anything that seemed to lessen the uncertainty would have been very welcome and quickly adopted. Omar Moore, an anthropologist suggested how this could have begun. He pointed to a custom which may still be in use among Native Americans who hunt the caribou in Labrador. When uncertain which way to take the hunt, they consult the hunted. They hold the shoulder bone of a caribou over hot coals and then interpret the cracks and spots produced by heat as a map, going where it seems to indicate. The marks are largely random, and are likely to lead to caribou only as a matter of chance, but over a period of time those using the technique and making such random forays tend to make better and more balanced use of their land. And in the long run, they become more successful hunters than those whose natural inclination to go back to where they had last hunted successfully very often leads to local overhunting.

There is a tendency to dismiss such practices as ‘superstition,” with the condescending observation that they are based on false premises. Perhaps. But as Moore points out: “Some practices which have been classified as magic, may well be directly efficacious for attaining the ends envisaged by their practitioners.” Sometimes the magic works.

modwiz
21st April 2018, 23:18
Hmm. Magic is our gift from our Mother. It is the Matrix we live in. (The movie was about the Patrix) So, this could be a wonderful topic but, the author of the work this is pushing off on has a 'dark' vision of it. Only practitioners, who by trial and error learn the craft, can speak competently on the subject. Others are observers. Magic is personal and complex.

Let me insert a very logical and even politically acceptable modern magician here and see if it is helpful. This has potential for a good thread, though what is good may differ for the members here. This is a subject that is dear to my heart and big part of my life. The praxis that is. The many types of magic can makes words obstacles but, with some thought and precision, we may be able to get somewhere.

I would like to think that those who actually practice some form of magic will get a teeny, tiny bit of deference from those who do not. However, some who may be doing it without knowing it might discover that in a clean exposition of the subject.

To the newer people here, I HATE typing. Modern technology allows us voice and face communication for deep subjects that are important to us and that is where much of my energy is spent. Disdain for typing and knowing text totally sucks for the most important part of a communication. The emotional part. I hate typing. BTW, hating abstracts and/or things is OK. Hating living things is generally unacceptable.

Gordon White is a lovely man and quite intelligent. This addresses a magicians quandary with the Syria situation. A sobering treatment, IMO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_L4nTqsqc8

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 00:15
Dreaming is one of our magics.

https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/825741332032770048

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 00:23
The Scarlet Woman, women of wisdom scorned by a magic forbidding Patrix.

https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/834539999328849920

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 00:29
https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/833775700004003840

Emil El Zapato
22nd April 2018, 01:08
Hmm. Magic is our gift from our Mother. It is the Matrix we live in. (The movie was about the Patrix) So, this could be a wonderful topic but, the author of the work this is pushing off on has a 'dark' vision of it. Only practitioners, who by trial and error learn the craft, can speak competently on the subject. Others are observers. Magic is personal and complex.

Let me insert a very logical and even politically acceptable modern magician here and see if it is helpful. This has potential for a good thread, though what is good may differ for the members here. This is a subject that is dear to my heart and big part of my life. The praxis that is. The many types of magic can makes words obstacles but, with some thought and precision, we may be able to get somewhere.

I would like to think that those who actually practice some form of magic will get a teeny, tiny bit of deference from those who do not. However, some who may be doing it without knowing it might discover that in a clean exposition of the subject.

To the newer people here, I HATE typing. Modern technology allows us voice and face communication for deep subjects that are important to us and that is where much of my energy is spent. Disdain for typing and knowing text totally sucks for the most important part of a communication. The emotional part. I hate typing. BTW, hating abstracts and/or things is OK. Hating living things is generally unacceptable.

Gordon White is a lovely man and quite intelligent. This addresses a magicians quandary with the Syria situation. A sobering treatment, IMO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_L4nTqsqc8

Rather than dark, he has a vision of such things as a 'cultural' leap really beyond humanity as part of its natural habitat. It will come clearer as I add his reflections. Admittedly in reading him, one expects the worst, but he comes true to his nature later. For example, he cites Rupert Sheldrake. That is why I read material that seems anti-thetical to my perspective because often in the course of reading one discovers that there actually is agreement.

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 01:12
Rather than dark, he has a vision of such things as a 'cultural' leap really beyond humanity as part of its natural habitat. It will come clearer as I add his reflections. Admittedly in reading him, one expects the worst, but he comes true to his nature later. For example, he cites Rupert Sheldrake. That is why I read material that seems anti-thetical to my perspective because often in the course of reading one discovers that there actually is agreement.

I like your perspective. And, if not coming from years/decades of a magical praxis, a logical way to engage it.:thup:

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 01:21
I like Thomas, a lot. He understands the very Earth we walk on and live, is magical. He stays away from the complexities scholars bring to a subject that is not as much an intellectual engagement but, an experiential and experimental one. He speaks to all, regardless of IQ, which is not equally distributed, nor does it need to be. He is a good example of a modern pagan, and dispels (spell) the many misunderstanding of what a pagan is/was.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WmVyVys9Pw

More Gordon White and a guest with some 'credentials' recognized in the world we live in.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmnlbmAtNEI

enjoy being
22nd April 2018, 01:36
Im sorry but I find that magic and witchcraft are deceptive words used by people who like the labels and wish to separate some kind of mystery and intrigue out from what is really just the mechanics of all.
I 'use' my natural thinking and acting all the time, though it is not really people using "magic" it is the "magic" using people, if there was a general direction of the flow. And sure, a lot of unaware people don't realise their actions, but so too with some of those who push the whole thing into a realm of fantasy. It is probably a safe guard.


oh, but dont mind me, for lacks of better terminologies yknow

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 02:01
Here is a good and short one by Thomas Sheridan.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFzlt-9DKSQ

enjoy being
22nd April 2018, 03:12
Yeah, that Thomas Sheridan clip goes a way to describe some of what I was struggling to express. Would pop in an Aiawanese macro micro comment too. Could he still swap the word 'magic' with the word 'life'? It fits in my view :-)

Emil El Zapato
22nd April 2018, 13:44
Im sorry but I find that magic and witchcraft are deceptive words used by people who like the labels and wish to separate some kind of mystery and intrigue out from what is really just the mechanics of all.
I 'use' my natural thinking and acting all the time, though it is not really people using "magic" it is the "magic" using people, if there was a general direction of the flow. And sure, a lot of unaware people don't realise their actions, but so too with some of those who push the whole thing into a realm of fantasy. It is probably a safe guard.


oh, but dont mind me, for lacks of better terminologies yknow

Let me say, I'm not a convert to the fold and I am amenable to the notion that magic and witchcraft are simply words to help describe creation. To clarify the terminology in Watson's words, he views 'magic' as the word ascribed by culture to be a 'positive' and witchcraft as its polar opposite to mean 'negative'. He makes no real judgment on the words, he just 'ruminates' on the social ramifications. But, in the end, he is a believer in the 'energy field' surrounding existence, analogous to Sheldrake's 'Morphic field'.

Dumpster Diver
22nd April 2018, 14:41
Important thread (corrected from threat...l’m mildly dyslexic and with the hob the spellchecker plays, hugely susceptible. My thanks to Nothing for pointing this out) to me in my current state. I’m going to take some time to view the videos before I post any of my normal village idiot comments....

Elen
22nd April 2018, 14:55
Important threat to me in my current state. I’m going to take some time to view the videos before I post any of my normal village idiot comments....

Take it easy Batman, :pc: :smile2:

Emil El Zapato
22nd April 2018, 15:02
Important threat to me in my current state. I’m going to take some time to view the videos before I post any of my normal village idiot comments....

I say go for it, Mr Dumpster...too much seriousness makes the shire a boring place... :)

Dumpster Diver
22nd April 2018, 15:06
Take it easy Batman, :pc: :smile2:

??? Are you thinking I’m upset? Far from it. We all have our functions here in the Shire. Modwiz is our wizard, Aragorn is our policeman, you and Dreamy are deputies, Malc is the local Lord, and I perform the function of the idiot or fool.

http://www.tarotcardmeanings.net/images/tarotcards-large/tarot-fool.jpg

enjoy being
22nd April 2018, 15:15
important threat...

Typo alert! That'll be where the concern came from.

Elen
22nd April 2018, 15:20
Typo alert! That'll be where the concern came from.

You're right! ;)

Dumpster Diver
22nd April 2018, 15:22
Typo alert! That'll be where the concern came from.

Thanks. Corrected and explained in the original post although I was tempted to play along in some sort of twisted bipolar rant...:goodbad:

enjoy being
22nd April 2018, 15:38
I too dont have much to add without watching one or two of the explanatories posted by others, and I am not sure when that will be with my bandwidth misering. There may be a chance I am buckling and could be thinking about getting an internet plan.. but don't tell my bootcamp persona he'll put a stop to it.

Dumpster Diver
22nd April 2018, 15:44
I too dont have much to add without watching one or two of the explanatories posted by others, and I am not sure when that will be with my bandwidth misering. There may be a chance I am buckling and could be thinking about getting an internet plan.. but don't tell my bootcamp persona he'll put a stop to it.

https://duxfemina.wikispaces.com/file/view/TEMPUSfugit.jpg/309118282/TEMPUSfugit.jpg

Aragorn
22nd April 2018, 16:00
[...] Aragorn is our policeman, you and Dreamy are deputies [...]

The correct vernacular, Sir, is that I am a Ranger, Dreamtimer and Elen are Elves, Kathy is a fairy, and Malc is a rogue Captain of the Guard who was bewitched by Saruman to have an eternally empty stomach, and who thus now raids every Fish & Chips he can find. :p

Dumpster Diver
22nd April 2018, 16:03
The correct vernacular, Sir, is that I am a Ranger, Dreamtimer and Elen are Elves, Kathy is a fairy, and Malc is a rogue Captain of the Guard who was bewitched by Saruman to have an eternally empty stomach, and who thus now raids every Fish & Chips he can find. :p

Ok, but I’m still claiming the village idiot guise...it’s important in our “role play”.

enjoy being
22nd April 2018, 16:18
:scrhd:The absinthe poster was one big woosh over my head

jcocks
22nd April 2018, 16:19
Dreaming is one of our magics.

https://www.minds.com/fs/v1/thumbnail/825741332032770048

We have no idea just how important our dreams are. The Australian aborigines are among the few on this planet who do understand .

I consider my dreams a huge link to my divinity as a universal being. If I go several days without a dream I get quite agitated.

(Surprisingly, as I was about to post my original reply to this post my browser claimed my internet had dropped out and I lost the entire reply. That hardly ever happens to me. I’m looking forward to viewing the videos on magic but that will have to wait until tomorrow as it’s geting too late for that now...)

Aragorn
22nd April 2018, 16:22
We have no idea just how important our dreams are. The Australian aborigines are among the few on this planet who do understand .

I consider my dreams a huge link to my divinity as a universal being. If I go several days without a dream I get quite agitated.

Technically, you always do dream, every night. You just don't always remember it. ;)

Dumpster Diver
22nd April 2018, 16:42
:scrhd:The absinthe poster was one big woosh over my head

Slow internet...time is lost waiting for it, and most people waste with with drugs, etc...tempus fugit

...I’m the fool, why am I always explaining things to folks?


We have no idea just how important our dreams are. The Australian aborigines are among the few on this planet who do understand .

I consider my dreams a huge link to my divinity as a universal being. If I go several days without a dream I get quite agitated.

(Surprisingly, as I was about to post my original reply to this post my browser claimed my internet had dropped out and I lost the entire reply. That hardly ever happens to me. I’m looking forward to viewing the videos on magic but that will have to wait until tomorrow as it’s geting too late for that now...)

We are all in an interlocking dream...

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 23:06
I love it when Thomas is 'on fire' and his hair is on fire a few times in this one.:ttr: He is also expressing for others in this Correction phase we are going through now. And, based on youtube comments below his video, he is waking people up and freeing them from the conditioning the social engineering that is religion. Watch this one, if one dares and can handle an adult expressing himself as one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1aeOFprrQI

modwiz
22nd April 2018, 23:54
I am picking a lot of Thomas Sheridan videos because they are short, succinct and honest. That is, from his heart. They are also easy to follow and require no background study to comprehend them. They may require a temporary dropping of ones beliefs to properly hear his gnosis.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lRgG-zbjHQ

enjoy being
23rd April 2018, 00:39
Slow internet...time is lost waiting for it, and most people waste with with drugs, etc...tempus fugit

...I’m the fool, why am I always explaining things to folks?

Oh okay, I dont speak latin. Yeah well it is the amount of data I have available in my plan, not the speed of the data thats the issue.
But yeah it would also be good to be able to play things in fast forward. I do get impatient with watching stuff these days, it may be faster than reading books but yeah. You know when you start watching stuff and there is only about 5-10% new insight on a topic, you start being careful with time and data.
Much of the time with this stuff I think to myself, will listening or reading such and such change my life? Will not reading or watching such and such compromise my path? Most of the time I am completely okay with where I am going and who I am and recognise the moment purely as curiosity and interest found along the way.
When the moment has called, my life has been filled with magic and the veil has thinned, leaving me very clear on the purpose of the moment. From it, and just living, I appreciate that trying to force ones way through the curtains is disrespectful to those on the otherside, so to speak.
It is good to try and keep the conduit clear of gunk so that when stuff does come through out of the ordinary, it is not lost in translation.
Oh, but there are also those times where something is put in front of you to trip over and take note of. Not always though is it in the way it seems. Sometimes it may well be, here is an example of truth, other times it can be the opposite you are being made aware of huh.

enjoy being
23rd April 2018, 06:11
My nan, my dad, myself, all have/had this thing about elephants, without talking to each other about them to influence each other.

The last Sheridan video mentions elephants again. Nice upload for me.
https://jandeane81.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2160&d=1524463011

This was Nans, I gilded it with 24k and gave it to her once. When she got really bad with her eye sight she had it on her coffee table as a beacon to navigate with. She was a loner after Pop died 43 + years ago, isolated herself.
The object was returned, it was a message from the other side for me to take possession of it.
Was led to buy a generic winebox, then give it an ancient treatment of gold under red shellac. And add a handle with turquoise and opal bead. Then engrave writing/hieroglyphs I do not understand on the front. I then was led to see it was a box for the object.
It stays inside the box and is not opened for years at a time. The photo of it there being the only time it has been out since 2007, and that was 4 or so years ago.
https://jandeane81.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2159&d=1524463011

Something says share these for the silent one watching.

enjoy being
23rd April 2018, 06:32
Odd, my tablet just lost all of its battery charge and shut down when I clicked post lol. Non members cant see pics anyway for some reason.

Elen
23rd April 2018, 06:41
My nan, my dad, myself, all have/had this thing about elephants, without talking to each other about them to influence each other.

The last Sheridan video mentions elephants again. Nice upload for me.
https://jandeane81.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2160&d=1524463011

This was Nans, I gilded it with 24k and gave it to her once. When she got really bad with her eye sight she had it on her coffee table as a beacon to navigate with. She was a loner after Pop died 43 + years ago, isolated herself.
The object was returned, it was a message from the other side for me to take possession of it.
Was led to buy a generic winebox, then give it an ancient treatment of gold under red shellac. And add a handle with turquoise and opal bead. Then engrave writing/hieroglyphs I do not understand on the front. I then was led to see it was a box for the object.
It stays inside the box and is not opened for years at a time. The photo of it there being the only time it has been out since 2007, and that was 4 or so years ago.
https://jandeane81.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2159&d=1524463011

Something says share these for the silent one watching.

That is just lovely...and can you feel the silent ones too?

enjoy being
23rd April 2018, 07:22
It was one of things, and then one of those things, and then one of those things again. It only cost me a few dollars. But I found it in a well known chain store here, the last one, discarded and fallen down the back of the shelf with the price missing. I was like, wow, whodathunk this shop would stock this kind of thing.

Yep there's the ones quietly watching for all kinds of reasons. Not necessarily woowoo, some just a bit unsure and apprehensive.

modwiz
25th April 2018, 05:38
:tiphat:

Emil El Zapato
29th April 2018, 14:25
Sometimes the magic works….

Success breeds success, and such customs quickly spread to other needs in search of fulfilment. Before long there are rituals, accompanied by appropriate verbal formulae, for catching fish, making rain, taming the wind, finding love or water, and ensuring fertility. Some of them based, by accident or design, on cues which have a natural relevance, and soon we are knee-deep in spells and all the evocative techniques of divination designed to make sense of the accidents of life. I must admit, in passing, to a personal preference for apantomancy—which finds significance in chance meetings with animals, and for phyllorhodomancy—an analysis of the variety of sounds that can be made by slapping rose petals against the hand. But the point is that, very early in our history, we became adept at, and addicted to productive magic of the kind that is dedicated to a particular end.

These acts of magical control must have begun as personal ones, performed by individuals or small groups for their own private ends. But those that could be seen to work will very quickly have won social approval and become rituals performed for the community as a whole, eventually by specialist magicians with recognized talents for doing so. This state of affairs is one which existed until very recently among living hunter-gatherers such as the Australian Aborigines and the Kalahari Bushmen. But with the transition to a more settled, agricultural way of life, there came major changes

modwiz
29th April 2018, 14:42
Sometimes the magic works….

Success breeds success, and such customs quickly spread to other needs in search of fulfilment. Before long there are rituals, accompanied by appropriate verbal formulae, for catching fish, making rain, taming the wind, finding love or water, and ensuring fertility. Some of them based, by accident or design, on cues which have a natural relevance, and soon we are knee-deep in spells and all the evocative techniques of divination designed to make sense of the accidents of life. I must admit, in passing, to a personal preference for apantomancy—which finds significance in chance meetings with animals, and for phyllorhodomancy—an analysis of the variety of sounds that can be made by slapping rose petals against the hand. But the point is that, very early in our history, we became adept at, and addicted to productive magic of the kind that is dedicated to a particular end.

These acts of magical control must have begun as personal ones, performed by individuals or small groups for their own private ends. But those that could be seen to work will very quickly have won social approval and become rituals performed for the community as a whole, eventually by specialist magicians with recognized talents for doing so. This state of affairs is one which existed until very recently among living hunter-gatherers such as the Australian Aborigines and the Kalahari Bushmen. But with the transition to a more settled, agricultural way of life, there came major changes

This reads like it was written by a non-magic practicing scholar, which is another way to discuss it, leaving the magic out of it. I am sure this will appeal to many people looking for an interesting read.

modwiz
29th April 2018, 14:50
A big part of traditional societies was the perceptions of the magicians/shamans of their group.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR2a9o-jzIQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9y_V5kDhsk

modwiz
29th April 2018, 15:04
In light of the ambivalence by some regarding what looks like peace and reunion on the Korean peninsula, although it is too early to call it that and we must observe the process, this video is worth a listen, IMO.

Please disregard the knucklehead who interrupts Thomas, he is an perfect example of a rightard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVYnZyHl0VE

Emil El Zapato
29th April 2018, 15:06
This reads like it was written by a non-magic practicing scholar, which is another way to discuss it, leaving the magic out of it. I am sure this will appeal to many people looking for an interesting read.

I think that's what he was shooting for, similar to Jung's attempts at scientific professionalism all the while harboring his true mystical leanings.

Emil El Zapato
29th April 2018, 15:12
In light of the ambivalence by some regarding what looks like peace and reunion on the Korean peninsula, although it is too early to call it that and we must observe the process, this video is worth a listen, IMO.

Please disregard the knucklehead who interrupts Thomas, he is an perfect example of a rightard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVYnZyHl0VE

My personal opinion is that Trump represents everything that is wrong with Trump.

modwiz
29th April 2018, 15:17
I like Thomas because he is both prolific and simple to understand. Not to mention, topical.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE-TFkuvlaU

Emil El Zapato
29th April 2018, 15:21
I like Thomas because he is both prolific and simple to understand. Not to mention, topical.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE-TFkuvlaU

Later in these excerpts the author references witchcraft and the Clintons....

Emil El Zapato
29th April 2018, 15:27
I like Thomas because he is both prolific and simple to understand. Not to mention, topical.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE-TFkuvlaU

It's possible that Kathy Griffin didn't discover it, she might have been practicing it.

Kind of a sidenote:

After my mother died my Aunt accused her of being a witch and haunting her from the grave. I suppose it might be an understatement to say that they didn't get along.

modwiz
29th April 2018, 15:34
Later in these excerpts the author references witchcraft and the Clintons....

It takes one to know one.

modwiz
29th April 2018, 15:48
Hollywood and Trump hate go together.:ttr: So, some time for hollywood to comment on the subject. Needless to say, it's gibberish to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdoGqrizfdc

PurpleLama
29th April 2018, 19:34
??? Are you thinking I’m upset? Far from it. We all have our functions here in the Shire. Modwiz is our wizard, Aragorn is our policeman, you and Dreamy are deputies, Malc is the local Lord, and I perform the function of the idiot or fool.

http://www.tarotcardmeanings.net/images/tarotcards-large/tarot-fool.jpg

The idiot and the fool are two very distinct functions.

modwiz
30th April 2018, 02:04
A clip from a full feature with a profound message towards the end, IMO.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMSOouOkCic

enjoy being
30th April 2018, 03:10
Holly wood
https://www.pottermore.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/wand-woods

In the UK, there is Pinewood


who knows huh.