View Full Version : Bills Pain Body Thread, All Welcome
Aianawa
26th March 2018, 22:44
A nice wee place to gently offer your feelings to and about shared or not, pain body experiences, that dear Bill has provided many here with, Great place to share pain body material here also, not just Eckhart Tolle's.
By the way, most people can not acknowledge their pain body, one cannot even talk to them about ( can be dangerous ), people play other peoples pain body like a guitar, it is easy.
Dreamtimer
26th March 2018, 22:51
You called to mind this thread (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/3636-THE-EVOLUTION-OF-THE-EGO-Eckhart-Tolle). I think it was the first time I heard reference to a pain body. Somewhere I made a comment about naming my pain body, although I haven't actually done so.
My brother used to be able to play me. Not anymore.
Sadly, to me, I had to learn not to care about his opinions of me. I still care about him. But not his opinions or judgments. Not personally. I do wish our relationship could be different.
I think his pain body maybe came with him into this life. He has been unhappy since childhood. My parents often talked about his negativity which was present even as a small child.
Aianawa
26th March 2018, 22:51
Excellent thread by Ba Ba Ra, with this thread now here, I feel like a wee little bit of Bill is here also now, feels strange But love heals all.
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 03:43
MARSvellous time stamp, just seen it now 22.44, twin soul feel for anyone ? lol.
Aragorn
27th March 2018, 03:57
MARSvellous time stamp, just seen it now 22.44, twin soul feel for anyone ? lol.
Um, that time stamp only applies to New Zealand, Brother. :p
Over here, on Central European Time, the time stamp on your post reads as 05:43 — and do also note that your clock seems to be running a minute ahead. ;) My computer's clock is kept synchronized with a time server by way of the Network Time Protocol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Time_Protocol). ;)
enjoy being
27th March 2018, 04:07
Reads as 11:44 am here in NZ. GMT+13?
Been wondering too.
Send in the clock docs.
Aragorn
27th March 2018, 04:16
Reads as 11:44 am here in NZ. GMT+13?
Been wondering too.
Send in the clock docs.
I'm guessing that one of you two is still on daylight savings time and the other one isn't. :hmm:
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 04:20
Nope, Bill is tampering with our timelines, paranoia will soon set in lol.
Aragorn
27th March 2018, 04:22
Nope, Bill is tampering with our timelines, paranoia will soon set in lol.
Only with yours then, Vern, because I've installed the Anti-Sombrero™ firewall on my computer, so that he would never be able to tamper with my clock. :p
The Anti-Sombrero™ firewall comes as one of the utilities in the Say-No-To-Scientology™ software suite, and it's available in different languages too, including Aianawese. :p
:onthequite:
enjoy being
27th March 2018, 04:25
I did have to (well probably not have to) shout out once (well maybe more than once) "Has anybody seen my big clock? face!"
It was a bit awkward at the time, and I afterwards realised there were certain things I could have done better.
Aragorn
27th March 2018, 04:30
Nope, Bill is tampering with our timelines, paranoia will soon set in lol.
I did have to (well probably not have to) shout out once (well maybe more than once) "Has anybody seen my big clock? face!"
It was a bit awkward at the time, and I afterwards realised there were certain things I could have done better.
I think you two may have come across a weakness in the timeline, and that it would probably be best to call in the help of Sapphire & Steel (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12068-Sapphire-Steel-Assignment-1) before the critters from the past drag you out of Reality. :p
enjoy being
27th March 2018, 04:42
I think you two may have come across a weakness in the timeline, and that it would probably be best to call in the help of Sapphire & Steel (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12068-Sapphire-Steel-Assignment-1) before the critters from the past drag you out of Reality. :p
Indeed. actually it was a huge clock face carved out of polystyrene for a dream sequence.
A ridiculously huge clock face would sit well on a shadowy stairwell of a Sapphire and Steel set. I was probably only 3 when that played so it all seemed so grown up and philosophical to me at the time.
Joanna Lumley is a goodie. People should be more trite over Felicity and spend more time praising Jojo. lol.
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 04:43
Hey Nothing, rumour has it that Worsal Gummage did timelines ? can imagine Bill and Worsal joining pain bodies and creating.
enjoy being
27th March 2018, 04:59
Jon Pertwee as Doctor Who, wearing a Worsel head, with Polly Anna as his companion in the Tardis?
Yeah something makes me wanna say, turnip. Oh that's a Baldrickism. Still.
Good to share a turnip, or a joke about one, but after that everyone's got their own phonebox to go change in.
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 05:05
Changes from country to country also, we have two blackadders as such in NZ, especially down south lol.
enjoy being
27th March 2018, 05:32
Yeah they speak a different Dalek down there!
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 05:42
Back on track again, we have all dealt with our own pain bodies but when dealing with others, dear oh dear I bet there be some tales, Bil is but another on the trail
A nice wee place to gently offer your feelings to and about shared or not, pain body experiences, that dear Bill has provided many here with, Great place to share pain body material here also, not just Eckhart Tolle's.
By the way, most people can not acknowledge their pain body, one cannot even talk to them about ( can be dangerous ), people play other peoples pain body like a guitar, it is easy.
enjoy being
27th March 2018, 08:20
So do you think Erky? Erksie? Erkles is saying he believes such a thing as a pain body truly exists as an entity?
And that it looks the way he describes? Or is he referring more just to the extent that the concept somehow resides within the scheme of things?
I like aspects of the concept, but in other ways I am inclined to feel restrained by it, or by thinking of it I feel like I am clothed in a baggy suit that drags in wind and water.
To me that suit is still at the end of the day, a choice to wear. And the first step is realising if and when it is being worn.
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 08:27
Well first, it is best to read and research about the Pain Body than experience it lol.
Secondly, I remember Tolle talking about the female's period, the collect pain of the womans period, so besides being real and having many facets, a person in their pain body does not know they are in that experience.
Aragorn
27th March 2018, 10:58
Just for the record, there is at present time at least one unregistered visitor checking out this thread through a confirmed proxy server in the Netherlands. :)
I think we can wager a few educated guesses as to who the interested parties could be. :p
Dumpster Diver
27th March 2018, 12:58
Only with yours then, Vern, because I've installed the Anti-Sombrero™ firewall on my computer, so that he would never be able to tamper with my clock. :p
The Anti-Sombrero™ firewall comes as one of the utilities in the Say-No-To-Scientology™ software suite, and it's available in different languages too, including Aianawese. :p
:onthequite:
:hilarious::ha::hilarious:
Yeah they speak a different Dalek down there!
Also good! :hilarious:
Dreamtimer
27th March 2018, 13:05
Secondly, I remember Tolle talking about the female's period, the collect pain of the womans period, so besides being real and having many facets, a person in their pain body does not know they are in that experience.
I don't think I understand this. (I'm always a little leery when a man discusses an inherently female experience. Kinda like expounding on pregnancy when they never will be).
Having said that, what is it that people don't know? They are in their pain body but don't know it? How does that work?
Women have a very different relationship to pain than men. I wonder how many know this? Women can bear chronically what men cannot bear acutely. I've heard/learned this from various sources. It may be an entirely different phenomenon, talking about the pain body, depending on if it's a man or a woman.
Dumpster Diver
27th March 2018, 13:10
I don't think I understand this. (I'm always a little leery when a man discusses an inherently female experience. Kinda like expounding on pregnancy when they never will be).
Having said that, what is it that people don't know? They are in their pain body but don't know it? How does that work?
Women have a very different relationship to pain than men. I wonder how many know this? Women can bear chronically what men cannot bear acutely. I've heard/learned this from various sources. It may be an entirely different phenomenon, talking about the pain body, depending on if it's a man or a woman.
...I dunno, channeling the pain from the last incarnation as a woman?
As a male, I’m very atune to what my body is feeling, very female...but then I tend to ignore it like most males...
Aianawa
27th March 2018, 16:54
Smelling fear ?.
Just for the record, there is at present time at least one unregistered visitor checking out this thread through a confirmed proxy server in the Netherlands. :)
I think we can wager a few educated guesses as to who the interested parties could be. :p
Elen
27th March 2018, 17:21
I don't think I understand this. (I'm always a little leery when a man discusses an inherently female experience. Kinda like expounding on pregnancy when they never will be).
Having said that, what is it that people don't know? They are in their pain body but don't know it? How does that work?
Women have a very different relationship to pain than men. I wonder how many know this? Women can bear chronically what men cannot bear acutely. I've heard/learned this from various sources. It may be an entirely different phenomenon, talking about the pain body, depending on if it's a man or a woman.
Yes yes...I used to tell my (male boss then) that "be careful today" because I've got my period today! And him being married, knew what I was talking about...I knew that and so all was good...it's not funny guys.
Emil El Zapato
27th March 2018, 19:03
Well first, it is best to read and research about the Pain Body than experience it lol.
Secondly, I remember Tolle talking about the female's period, the collect pain of the womans period, so besides being real and having many facets, a person in their pain body does not know they are in that experience.
You never met my ex-wife Aiainawa...everyone within shouting distance knows all about her pain-body...except, hmm, her...no she's cognizant of that it's her pain-mind that she's oblivious to.
I'm in the twilight zone here in Texas...TTZ.
Actually, I agree, Bill has to be miserable, trying to juggle, balance, reconcile, deny all his many levels of machinations. I wouldn't be in that position for ALL the money in the world.
Dumpster Diver
27th March 2018, 19:53
You never met my ex-wife Aiainawa...everyone within shouting distance knows all about her pain-body...except, hmm, her...no she's cognizant of that it's her pain-mind that she's oblivious to.
I'm in the twilight zone here in Texas...TTZ.
Actually, I agree, Bill has to be miserable, trying to juggle, balance, reconcile, deny all his many levels of machinations. I wouldn't be in that position for ALL the money in the world.
...hey, evil is as evil does. When I first moved to Holland to work at a NATO facility, I was just a straight-ahead Scientist Engineer, straight shooter, no games, just use the science and get things done. After 3 months working there, I told the GF, “Either I’ve got to radically change my behavior or we will be going home early.” After another 3 month “reorientation,” I became the most machievallian monster you can imagine. Within 3 years, I had become a project manager for the most important project in the Agency and got a promotion to boot. We stayed there 8 years until the GF got sick with bronchitis and we had to move to San Diego where it is hot and dry.
When I left, I promised myself to never do that again. The trick is to not like it. I had gotten to where I was so good at it, I did like it.
Dreamtimer
27th March 2018, 21:05
Glad you shared Dumpy, though it sucks to hear that was the road to success.
Aragorn
27th March 2018, 22:37
Just for the record, there is at present time at least one unregistered visitor checking out this thread through a confirmed proxy server in the Netherlands. :)
I think we can wager a few educated guesses as to who the interested parties could be. :p
Smelling fear ?.
Not from me, Brother. I'm not afraid of either El Sombrero™ or his casa. ;)
I do however suspect that they would be concerned with whatever gets spoken about here on this thread. It is after all a thread revolving around El Sombrero™, and we all know that he's an obsessive-compulsive narcissist. His public image means more to him than the truth and the integrity of his soul — that much has been obvious for years already. :hmm:
My comment as quoted above was merely intended as a heads-up. ;)
enjoy being
28th March 2018, 00:04
Where'd that other thread about the painbody concept go? I'm not really too fussed with putting the callipers on the goitres of individuals, but the topic of a concept labelled as a painbody can be an inspiring point of discussion otherwise.
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 02:47
Would we welcome Bill with open arms should he wish to register ?.
Not from me, Brother. I'm not afraid of either El Sombrero™ or his casa. ;)
I do however suspect that they would be concerned with whatever gets spoken about here on this thread. It is after all a thread revolving around El Sombrero™, and we all know that he's an obsessive-compulsive narcissist. His public image means more to him than the truth and the integrity of his soul — that much has been obvious for years already. :hmm:
My comment as quoted above was merely intended as a heads-up. ;)
Dreamtimer
28th March 2018, 02:51
That decision would be up to Malc, I would think. Malc started this forum after being banned from PA if memory is right. That would be a strangely awkward thing unless they'd made personal amends first.
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 02:58
Maybe that would be too much for the world to comprehend But Bill is a beautifullll soul and worth the effort, people change you know.
Looked and appears to have disappeared, mmm more tampering ?. lol
Where'd that other thread about the painbody concept go? I'm not really too fussed with putting the callipers on the goitres of individuals, but the topic of a concept labelled as a painbody can be an inspiring point of discussion otherwise.
Dreamtimer
28th March 2018, 03:00
I haven't been in my pain body as a result of Bill or any PA members, so I can't say.
And yes, people change. That's why I still have hope for my brother despite his assertions that most people don't matter and you could just throw them away. He says you'd never miss them. :belief:
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 03:08
Core, he may really dislike part of himself, shocks to ones reality system usually helps such souls or just maybe he is getting it all simply just perfect this time around, or not.
Aragorn
28th March 2018, 03:46
Would we welcome Bill with open arms should he wish to register ?.
That decision would be up to Malc, I would think. Malc started this forum after being banned from PA if memory is right. That would be a strangely awkward thing unless they'd made personal amends first.
Well, the question is obviously highly academic, because Billzebub™ & friends look down their noses upon The One Truth, so why on Earth would he ever wish to sign up here? First and foremost, he's got his own palace to worry about, and secondly, there are way too many people here whom he has rubbed the wrong way.
Not only was Malc himself banned from La Casa Del Sombrero™, but so was my direct predecessor Church, and quite possibly his own predecessor 777 as well — I don't really know, because I've never really had a chance to talk with 777. But to go on with the list, I myself was banned from there too, and by Billzebub™ himself, because he considered me a threat to his reputation. And then there are all the other members who've been banned by him.
So I don't think I would be lying if I were to say that the odds that El Sombrero™ would be welcomed here with open arms are very, very, very slim. But I either way agree with Dreamtimer that ultimately, the decision would have to lie with Malc. And Malc is a big softie, but — luckily — he's no fool. ;)
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 04:12
As unlikely as this may seem, Bill becoming TOTTied, To show people that his pain body is under his control ( big LOL ), he may say I will go on holiday and greet old pals.
ps that be be a explosions of pain bodies experience lol
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 05:48
When the Totcasts were being done, the one on specifically Bill Ryan, had the most views, Modwiz was very gentle towards Billy pain body and I did not really have much idea of Billy pain bodies energy at all >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsTd8XVGkE
But now I can comprehend many members here, Billy pain body needs ?
Well, the question is obviously highly academic, because Billzebub™ & friends look down their noses upon The One Truth, so why on Earth would he ever wish to sign up here? First and foremost, he's got his own palace to worry about, and secondly, there are way too many people here whom he has rubbed the wrong way.
Not only was Malc himself banned from La Casa Del Sombrero™, but so was my direct predecessor Church, and quite possibly his own predecessor 777 as well — I don't really know, because I've never really had a chance to talk with 777. But to go on with the list, I myself was banned from there too, and by Billzebub™ himself, because he considered me a threat to his reputation. And then there are all the other members who've been banned by him.
So I don't think I would be lying if I were to say that the odds that El Sombrero™ would be welcomed here with open arms are very, very, very slim. But I either way agree with Dreamtimer that ultimately, the decision would have to lie with Malc. And Malc is a big softie, but — luckily — he's no fool. ;)
palooka's revenge
28th March 2018, 08:14
... ( can be dangerous ),....
With good reason. Too easy to trigger 'em 'n who knows what might happen?
Elen
28th March 2018, 08:25
The question is: Could we build a bridge strong enough to hold that kind of traffic? Never say never. :swing:
palooka's revenge
28th March 2018, 08:33
You called to mind this thread (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/3636-THE-EVOLUTION-OF-THE-EGO-Eckhart-Tolle).
I heard about 3 minutes and that was enuf! I don't care what jesus supposedly said, if I ever evolve to the point of being capable of, with intention, increasing my vibration to physically visit the higher realms, I only intend to do it by taking all of me with me!! Differentiation is real and the ego is the self-identity center...
... My brother used to be able to play me. Not anymore.
i'm GLAD!!
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 08:41
The question is: Could we build a bridge strong enough to hold that kind of traffic? Never say never. :swing:
Pain bodies are having a hard time in these times, clean up times, so is likely half our future new membership will be via Billy pain bodies forum ?
With good reason. Too easy to trigger 'em 'n who knows what might happen?
Totally nail on the head, spose in a way I am happy no stories are being shared, usually harrowing, mine were/are, surviving was luck in my case, twice lol.
palooka's revenge
28th March 2018, 08:44
I don't think I understand this. (I'm always a little leery when a man discusses an inherently female experience. Kinda like expounding on pregnancy when they never will be).
Having said that, what is it that people don't know? They are in their pain body but don't know it? How does that work?
Women have a very different relationship to pain than men. I wonder how many know this? Women can bear chronically what men cannot bear acutely. I've heard/learned this from various sources. It may be an entirely different phenomenon, talking about the pain body, depending on if it's a man or a woman.
i'm with u!!!
... it's not funny guys[/B].
i'm with u too!!
palooka's revenge
28th March 2018, 08:50
... it sucks to hear that was the road to success.
sadly, such is the road for far too many...
palooka's revenge
28th March 2018, 09:02
,.... surviving was luck in my case, twice lol.
i doubt it...
Dreamtimer
28th March 2018, 11:21
I found this post (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/6307-You-Are-Not-Your-Thoughts?p=841986349&viewfull=1#post841986349) where Aianawa linked to an article about pain and the body.
This may be the first time we discussed (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/6668-We-all-know-this-do-we-not) the pain body.
Happy three years, Aianawa. :)
Aianawa
28th March 2018, 16:52
On reflection, universe was looking after me somewhat Palooka.
i doubt it...
Maggie
28th March 2018, 22:50
A nice wee place ..............
https://www.sott.net/image/s22/458825/full/Meanwhile_in_China.jpg
Emil El Zapato
29th March 2018, 00:29
When the Totcasts were being done, the one on specifically Bill Ryan, had the most views, Modwiz was very gentle towards Billy pain body and I did not really have much idea of Billy pain bodies energy at all >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsTd8XVGkE
But now I can comprehend many members here, Billy pain body needs ?
Really Interesting...Something for everyone! :)
Aianawa
29th March 2018, 04:12
I got so many meanings from the pic, with laughter on top lol.
https://www.sott.net/image/s22/458825/full/Meanwhile_in_China.jpg
Aianawa
29th March 2018, 21:28
Was thinking shall I start a new thread > Pain Body Denial < Nah, lets keep this with Billy pain body. The whole world for a very long time has had tptW formally B, playing the collective pain body, waanna war, use the peoples pain bodies, feel you get the picture, sorta like create a problem and gift the solution lol. So Billy pain body is simply a micro feature. Next factor imo is how much denial has Bill got, because a couple of friends were trying to let him know what he was doing, as his pain body took over, to no avail But I feel there may be some acknowledgement from Bill, due to seeing those dynamics.
Emil El Zapato
29th March 2018, 21:45
Interesting...I'm almost certain the denial is sky high. Denial...now I'm wondering which is worse...denial or projection. Fact is, Freud and Jung might argue they are inseparable... Ken Wilber would probably be thinking those guys are chumps ... :)
Aianawa
29th March 2018, 22:54
Billys pain body and people using it also to their advantage or paid to do so, is a time old repeating record, tis what was and is still in a transmutation stage as humanity evolves. Imagine the power Bill would have, his ability to assist humanity, change the world fast, without his attachment ?.
Aianawa
29th March 2018, 23:29
The importance of this topic besides BPB ( Billys Pain Body ), actually the hugeness imo, is that the pain body collectively and/or individually has not been the factor in charge, has been the guitar players as such, the players using the pain body, from the advertisers to the war creators.
Emil El Zapato
29th March 2018, 23:44
The importance of this topic besides BPB ( Billys Pain Body ), actually the hugeness imo, is that the pain body collectively and/or individually has not been the factor in charge, has been the guitar players as such, the players using the pain body, from the advertisers to the war creators.
sure, there is no other way...
Aianawa
30th March 2018, 00:17
Now, if an Avalon members created a thread, lets talk about Bill Ryan when Bills not bill, the one some of us have fear around, anxiousness feelings, you know, the eggyshell walking experience, lets talk about this in the open, no more expelling, banning, forum murder etc, like hey Bill we love you But intervention is needed, lets move from the cult to the expression and use of the positive Accult.
Emil El Zapato
30th March 2018, 00:24
Now, if an Avalon members created a thread, lets talk about Bill Ryan when Bills not bill, the one some of us have fear around, anxiousness feelings, you know, the eggyshell walking experience, lets talk about this in the open, no more expelling, banning, forum murder etc, like hey Bill we love you But intervention is needed, lets move from the cult to the expression and use of the positive Accult.
I think he's stuck, he might actually wish to do that, but he's totally outnumbered and at this point doesn't wish to concede his stuckness. It's sad really...to be so invested in the negative. An analogous situation are the politicians that draw the worst kinds of people around them as the leader, but then the leader lives in fear of what those followers might do should he/she betray their loyalty. The one thing a leader such as that will fear are those that are like them. But there is the money factor...he knows where the money is to be made if it is there to be made.
modwiz
30th March 2018, 00:31
https://www.sott.net/image/s22/458825/full/Meanwhile_in_China.jpg
I was at Avalon for a few years. I recognize a few on that line. Mike is finishing up.;)
enjoy being
30th March 2018, 00:50
https://media1.giphy.com/media/p0ocQMw1dNkDm/giphy.gif
palooka's revenge
30th March 2018, 04:34
On reflection, universe was looking after me somewhat Palooka.
i can dig it. been blessed there myself. Was merely coming from the idea that, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear...
palooka's revenge
30th March 2018, 04:54
Was thinking shall I start a new thread > Pain Body Denial <
it would certainly be appropriate. how to clear it? here's something to ponder from the what if dept...
in context of the fundamental forces of nature relative to the state energies are in, the presence of denial creates an experience or experiences equal to or greater than the denial so the denial can be cleared.
that could certainly explain a lot about manifestation and why the past has the present by the short hairs eh?
The importance of this topic besides BPB ( Billys Pain Body ), actually the hugeness imo, is that the pain body collectively and/or individually has not been the factor in charge, has been the guitar players as such, the players using the pain body, from the advertisers to the war creators.
BINGO!!
palooka's revenge
30th March 2018, 04:59
Now, if an Avalon members created a thread, lets talk about Bill Ryan when Bills not bill, the one some of us have fear around, anxiousness feelings, you know, the eggyshell walking experience, lets talk about this in the open, no more expelling, banning, forum murder etc, like hey Bill we love you But intervention is needed, lets move from the cult to the expression and use of the positive Accult.
from what i've read this is why the founders created gov and limited power to the few (aka, themselves).. they justified this by believing that if left to the masses to duke it out only chaos would ensue. so they decided to protect us from ourselves...
Aianawa
30th March 2018, 06:33
Yes, feel one starts with oneself, this one was helpful for me to see me and not me > https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/6307-You-Are-Not-Your-Thoughts
What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.
Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. That�s all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.
Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.
Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. It�s very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. That�s all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. That�s all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. It�s very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.
Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. It�s been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? It�s not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.
Then the self, the sense of separation. That�s again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinating�slightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You don�t exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.
Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that you�re wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? It�s not at all your dress.
Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you�re out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you�re moving your arm by your control. It�s not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It�s only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.
Now the problem is you�re identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you�re having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.
If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.
The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem
palooka's revenge
30th March 2018, 08:13
Yes, feel one starts with oneself, this one was helpful for me to see me and not me > https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/6307-You-Are-Not-Your-Thoughts
What you try to do is you try to push out some things and keep the others. That is the mistake. You say this is good, that is evil. That is the problem. You say this is sacred, this is profane. That is the problem. You have to accept all that is there. You accept the most beautiful thoughts and you have to accept the most terrible thoughts because they are all happening inside of you. That is the truth.
Thoughts are millions of years old. They are not your thoughts. They are just flowing through you. That�s all. The structure of thoughts does not change. Only the object has changed. Thought has remained the same. Thought is essentially measurement. It is comparison. Ancient man was measure and comparing. You also do. He was comparing how many cows he had, how much the neighbor had. You are comparing how many cars you have, how many the neighbor has.
Comparing is thought. It is measurement. All thought is measurement. It is comparison. It does not change. They are not your thoughts. They are there. So your thoughts are not your thoughts.
Your mind. What is the mind? The mind is full of thoughts and the mind is a human mind. It�s very, very ancient. The same structure: fear, jealously, anger, hatred, worry about the past, worrying about the future. It has not changed at all. Only the objects have change. Desire is there. You had desire for a spear. You have desire for money. That�s all. You had fear of the saber-toothed tiger. You have fear of the share market. That�s all. The structure is the same and the mind is very, very ancient. So your mind is not your mind. It�s very, very ancient. It is just there. You assume it is yours. So your mind is not your mind.
Your body. Your body is not your body. You did not design your body. It was designed millions of years ago. The same structure: the nose is here, the ear is here, breathe in oxygen, give out carbon dioxide. It�s been the same for millions of years. You did not design it. You did not create it. You did not conceive it. You did nothing in fact. How come it is your body? It�s not your body at all. You have to think about it. Contemplate on that.
Then the self, the sense of separation. That�s again an illusion. It depends upon how fast the senses are coordinating�slightly slow down, the sense of separation is gone. There is only oneness. You don�t exist as an independent entity at all. There is no separate existence. Not at all. Just another big illusion. Your self is only a concept.
Now how to understand this? A very simple example would help you understand this. Mainly the dress that you�re wearing, you did not design the dress. You did not tailor that dress. You did not weave the textile in the textile mill. You did not grow the cotton or create the polyester that has gone into the dress. In no way are you involved with the dress. How do you say it is your dress? It�s not at all your dress.
Similarly your thoughts are not your thoughts. Your mind is not your mind. Your body is not your body. The self is only a concept. The moment you become awakened you�re out of all this and you see your thoughts automatically happening. You see your speech automatically happening and you see your actions. You may think you�re moving your arm by your control. It�s not so. You can watch the brain in real time. Moments before you decide to move your hand the brain had decided to move the hand. It�s only the illusion that you have decided to move your hand.
Now the problem is you�re identifying yourself with your thoughts, with your mind, with your body and the so-called self. This we call anatma. Anatma in Sanskrit which means false identification. And why is there this false identification? Because of what we call in Sanskrit pragnaparada or failure of intelligence which is what we try to awaken in level 2. Because of failure of intelligence you�re having wrong identification which leads to a sense of separation. The sense of separation is the cause of all problems. All problems inside yourself are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems with the family are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in your country are caused because of this sense of separation. All problems in the world arise because of this sense of separation.
If you remove the sense of separation then there are no problems in the individual, no problems in the family, no problems in the nation, no problems in the world. That is the root cause of all problems. To be free of the self is the only revolution.
The only solution to all our problems is to ultimately awaken where we lose this sense of separation. That is the real problem
For me, the 1st para is dynamite. Right on target. But then it goes south. Way south.
IE... in context of the idea that everything that ever was along with everything that ever will be ALREADY IS, then I can consider the idea that thoughts are just thoughts and have nothing to do with me. However, the role of the observer in quantum mechanics calls this to question. .
I hear you that this has been very helpful to you and I certainly don't mean to cast judgement on the parade but, the way I see it, to throw everything forwarded in that piece as illusion is dangerous. An avoidance tactic. Its another form of bless me father for I have sinned. Go say 3 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Mary's and I'm forgiven by a proxy for the Most High... So I get absolution. Its easy. So easy maybe i begin to forget I'm responsible.
I suspect one of life's greatest challenges for each of us is the circus-like act of balancing between the realization and acceptance of the sovereign self and the realization and acceptance that All is One. All at the same time....
Aianawa
30th March 2018, 08:56
You believe your thoughts are your thoughts, most people do, all good.
Dreamtimer
30th March 2018, 11:55
Do you have thoughts that are yours, Aianawa?
palooka's revenge
30th March 2018, 12:57
You believe your thoughts are your thoughts, most people do, all good.
yes, there are many paths...
Maggie
30th March 2018, 14:00
For me, the 1st para is dynamite. Right on target. But then it goes south. Way south.
IE... in context of the idea that everything that ever was along with everything that ever will be ALREADY IS, then I can consider the idea that thoughts are just thoughts and have nothing to do with me. However, the role of the observer in quantum mechanics calls this to question. .
I hear you that this has been very helpful to you and I certainly don't mean to cast judgement on the parade but, the way I see it, to throw everything forwarded in that piece as illusion is dangerous. An avoidance tactic. Its another form of bless me father for I have sinned. Go say 3 Our Fathers and 3 Hail Mary's and I'm forgiven by a proxy for the Most High... So I get absolution. Its easy. So easy maybe i begin to forget I'm responsible.
I suspect one of life's greatest challenges for each of us is the circus-like act of balancing between the realization and acceptance of the sovereign self and the realization and acceptance that All is One. All at the same time....
That article felt a little preachy to me. I PERSONALLY don't care about being free of the self so much as living as a BIGGER self that I appreciate and feeling part of a beautiful world and experiencing a worthy life (as I CHOOSE to think of worthy).
You mention the OBSERVER. That is IMO me and I choose from an offering of thought things that "are not mine" because they mostly are not original. What is deliberately or subconsciously chosen does seem to me to then become "mine" to the extent that they become what i act on?
meditation that stills the mind has been said to then have the effect of introducing original "thought" which might also "be independent" of me? people say they get flashes of insight that seem out of the blue but solve problems and answer questions. But I have also heard that they may dissipate unless "remembered" and did our higher "self" think them up? I dunno?
Semantics here is involved. IMO thoughts are ours when we adopt them. We probably don't create much that is new but I have experienced the consequence of what I choose to think. There are contrasts of availavle patterns and I THINk I use the contrasts to create the "picture" of me.
Bottom line, we DO have the individual path we are walking FROM our POV.
palooka's revenge
30th March 2018, 18:10
That article felt a little preachy to me. I PERSONALLY don't care about being free of the self so much as living as a BIGGER self that I appreciate and feeling part of a beautiful world and experiencing a worthy life (as I CHOOSE to think of worthy).
You mention the OBSERVER. That is IMO me and I choose from an offering of thought things that "are not mine" because they mostly are not original. What is deliberately or subconsciously chosen does seem to me to then become "mine" to the extent that they become what i act on?
meditation that stills the mind has been said to then have the effect of introducing original "thought" which might also "be independent" of me? people say they get flashes of insight that seem out of the blue but solve problems and answer questions. But I have also heard that they may dissipate unless "remembered" and did our higher "self" think them up? I dunno?
Semantics here is involved. IMO thoughts are ours when we adopt them. We probably don't create much that is new but I have experienced the consequence of what I choose to think. There are contrasts of availavle patterns and I THINk I use the contrasts to create the "picture" of me.
Bottom line, we DO have the individual path we are walking FROM our POV.
I'm with u Maggie. Give me real or let me go poof! I'm prepared to even go so far as to say that even delusion is real somewhere.
As for thoughts 'n where they come from, I have no prob either way. I have what strike me as original thoughts. At least I've never heard anyone else say 'em. Some of 'em have been purddy dumb too! One of my fav pass times is to just let my mind run 'n pay attention to what thought patterns pop up. Maybe they're not original to me. Maybe already been thought up by the great mind in the sky 'n they just fly around and some of 'em flow through us. But, if so, I doubt what flows thru does so by accident or random if for no other reason than the law of attraction/repulsion. Its all energy eh? Including us. Fundamentally, energy is EM. Ever play with magnets?
I know some of the greatest writers make no claim to invention. They say the genius just flowed thru 'em and all they did was write it down. Dylan is one of those. I recall an interview where he rattled off some of the lines to Lilly, Rosemary. and the Jack of Hearts as proof. He said no way he could make that up. It had to come from somewhere. Townes Van Zant is another who comes to mind...
Aianawa
30th March 2018, 20:25
Nope, though difficulty at times, experience/s yes, real.
Ps the difficulty being that imo new templates happening, these templates have helped many other worlds before helping us though, so thoughts created by them not original imo.
Aianawa
31st March 2018, 00:23
It may be like who gave you that anger, as was not yours to start with. Who gave you those/these/this thought ?.
ps back to BPB though, what would need to be created with BPB to make changes ?, a shock, outside help ?, lol Alien assistance ?, ?.
Aragorn
31st March 2018, 05:50
ps back to BPB though, what would need to be created with BPB to make changes ?, a shock, outside help ?, lol Alien assistance ?, ?.
In my personal opinion, reincarnation. :p And no, I'm not saying somebody should finish him off <LOL>. :p
What I am saying is that, in my personal opinion, Bill Ryan has made a choice — like Anakin Skywalker, who made a choice at some point in his young life and then became Darth Vader for as long as he still lived — and he has come too far down that road to turn around now and go back to do things the right way. He doesn't care too much about right or wrong anyway, and as a firm believer in reincarnation, he also knows that there's always a next life, and that he can thus afford to do things wrongly in this one.
Furthermore, I'm not actually convinced that he even knows just what a poor excuse for a human being he really is. After all, he always blames everything on other people. It was never his fault, somebody else is always responsible. And from where I'm sitting, that still hasn't changed.
You cannot make the world into a better place without starting with yourself. And too many people never even think about that. After all, the last thing a fish would ever come to question is the water it swims in.
Just my two Eurocents, and now I'm returning to lurking mode, before someone accuses me of Bill-bashing again. :p
Dumpster Diver
31st March 2018, 10:23
In my personal opinion, reincarnation. :p And no, I'm not saying somebody should finish him off <LOL>. :p
What I am saying is that, in my personal opinion, Bill Ryan has made a choice — like Anakin Skywalker, who made a choice at some point in his young life and then became Darth Vader for as long as he still lived — and he has come too far down that road to turn around now and go back to do things the right way. He doesn't care too much about right or wrong anyway, and as a firm believer in reincarnation, he also knows that there's always a next life, and that he can thus afford to do things wrongly in this one.
Furthermore, I'm not actually convinced that he even knows just what a poor excuse for a human being he really is. After all, he always blames everything on other people. It was never his fault, somebody else is always responsible. And from where I'm sitting, that still hasn't changed.
You cannot make the world into a better place without starting with yourself. And too many people never even think about that. After all, the last thing a fish would ever come to question is the water it swims in.
Just my two Eurocents, and now I'm returning to lurking mode, before someone accuses me of Bill-bashing again. :p
Darth Hatman, like Vader, realized the dark side is stronger...Hatman’s Problem is he hasn’t (yet) had a Luke to come along to wake him up...maybe that’s TOT’s ultimate function?
Aragorn
31st March 2018, 11:34
Darth Hatman, like Vader, realized the dark side is stronger...Hatman’s Problem is he hasn’t (yet) had a Luke to come along to wake him up...maybe that’s TOT’s ultimate function?
That's an interesting idea to ponder, but then he'd have to openly acknowledge our existence first, just as Microsoft had to do with GNU/Linux.
For a very long time — under both the reigns of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer — Microsoft would internally acknowledge the existence of GNU/Linux as an operating system that was eating away on their monopoly, while outwardly toward their customers, they pretended that it didn't even exist, as evidenced from the fact that they refused to offer any kind of compatibility or interoperability with GNU/Linux. Not that GNU/Linux itself would be incompatible with anything by design, because it's a UNIX system, and therefore it is compatible with all internationally accepted standards. But Microsoft went out of its way to intentionally sabotage the interoperability with said standards in their own products.
Likewise, Billzebub™ & friends do of course know all too well that The One Truth exists, and they even have some of their cronies monitor things over here on a regular basis, but I strongly suspect that none of the Project Avalon staff will ever mention The One Truth out on an open thread — not even in their members-only environment. Their hubris is simply too strong for that, and especially so with El Sombrero™ himself.
After all, The One Truth is where a huge number of the people ended up who were ever kicked out by him — Malc and myself included — and he considers The One Truth inferior to his own palace. And of course, anyone can see — even by merely looking at their public threads — that the vast majority of Project Avalon members consider themselves part of a kind of elite of chosen ones. It's a cult phenomenon, with the name "Project Avalon" as a marketing brand of some sorts.
It is also quite evidential from posts such as this one (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102247-Unfair-Dinkum-it-s-not-cricket...-or-how-Australia-is-in-shock-about-a-fallen-hero&p=1217316&viewfull=1#post1217316) that El Sombrero™ still believes in the leadership and savior paradigms — as opposed to the paradigm of self-responsibility and self-determination — as unmistakably illustrated by his words here-below...
[...]
That's leadership in action, right there. Real leadership in any endeavor most necessarily extends beyond just your own team. That's hard for many to understand, and even harder to embody.
The One Truth on the other hand maintains and supports an entirely different paradigm, i.e. the paradigm of knowing oneself and assuming one's personal responsibility.
Bill Ryan has to the best of my knowledge still to acknowledge for the first time that he ever made a mistake — in anything at all. So far he has always shoved off whatever blame onto somebody else. And as such, it'll probably be a proverbial cold day in hell before he will ever admit that The One Truth is a saner, healthier and much nicer forum than his mega-mart Project Avalon that on average chews up and spits out just about as many members as they are recruiting.
Just my two hundredths of an Imperial Credit, of course. Your parsecs may vary, and all that. :p
Aianawa
2nd April 2018, 09:15
The more I learn the more I am amazed at the BPB's ability to create pain outside of Bill, nears putrid.
Emil El Zapato
4th April 2018, 21:57
The more I learn the more I am amazed at the BPB's ability to create pain outside of Bill, nears putrid.
Unfortunately, some people are groomed from the cradle to have that kind of effect on those around them. It's definitely generational, could be genetic, even spiritual (i.e. archontic...that notion shouldn't be bandied about lightly)
Aianawa
5th April 2018, 20:15
Is definitely an Xlent teacher.
Aianawa
11th April 2018, 08:01
Once known, the pain body is a choice, prior, an addiction. Break downs and/or Shocks are the transmutors and and and the biggest transmutor of all Love, hows BPB coped with love in the past, have heard the odd snippit of him being in love, having loves in his life, hows Bills Pain Body fared ?.
Aragorn
11th April 2018, 09:48
Once known, the pain body is a choice, prior, an addiction. Break downs and/or Shocks are the transmutors and and and the biggest transmutor of all Love, hows BPB coped with love in the past, have heard the odd snippit of him being in love, having loves in his life, hows Bills Pain Body fared ?.
Billzebub™ in love? Don't you mean "in lust"? There's a significant difference. Do not forget that we're talking of an obsessive-compulsive narcissistic and Machiavellian psychopath here, Brother. :hmm:
Aianawa
12th April 2018, 09:32
Would be very simple for him to be/get corrupted then, crikey, to easy imo.
ps will have to break out the LULL thread, so much happening and lulls is a flashing neon sign imo
Aianawa
19th April 2018, 04:38
Hi Aragorn, anything to add here since your interaction with BPB ?
Aragorn
19th April 2018, 12:58
Hi Aragorn, anything to add here since your interaction with BPB ?
No, not really. ;) I haven't been in contact with Bill Ryan anymore since that email exchange — there hasn't been any reason to, for either one of us. ;)
I am however backing away from using monikers for either him or his forum that could be construed as derogatory. As I said earlier, the sombrero thing wasn't really intended to be derogatory, even though I will admit that I've used it as such in the past.
Bill Ryan is who he is, and while I may not agree with the way he runs his forum, with his Scientology-based belief system and with how he has been conducting himself in certain matters that I'm not going to get into now, the man does have qualities — which I've already expounded elsewhere. He is putting out the impression that he too is trying to make an effort at making the world a better place, and I've decided that I'm going to be holding him to that.
And so perhaps one day, Bill Ryan himself, his Project Avalon forum and his community of forum members may find themselves as allies to us here at The One Truth, and at our sister forum Eye-Rise. Ultimately, we all want to know the truths that have been kept from us, and we all want to create a better world, for ourselves as well as for those who come after us. And peace is a much more desirable foundation to build such a future upon than war and resentment.
I am still seeing this vision before my eyes as I had in that dream in May last year: The One Truth as this ultramodern/futuristic campus with beautiful ponds and water channels in a somewhat semi-suburban setting, and Project Avalon as this well-maintained medieval castle on the edge of a forest, surrounded by a moat with a firm wooden bridge, and with an illuminated path leading to it from within the forest. And in between these two campuses, there was a landscape that I can only describe as very Shire-like, with people roaming about, talking to one another, or simply doing other things, like studying plants or reading. It was all very peaceful and agreeable, and everyone was enjoying the warm spring evening.
Who we are as individuals is less important to the world or to humanity and its destiny than what we do in the time we've been allotted. Nobody's perfect, and we don't have to agree on everything. But we can at least try to get along. We're all neighbors on the internet. And one day, one of the neighbors might have run out of sugar for their coffee or tea, and might ring another neighbor's doorbell to ask if they can spare a handful of sugar cubes until the grocery shops open the next day.
I think you know what I'm saying. ;)
enjoy being
19th April 2018, 13:17
Well thats good progress, because it did have a funny look to it.
Emil El Zapato
19th April 2018, 15:51
No, not really. ;) I haven't been in contact with Bill Ryan anymore since that email exchange — there hasn't been any reason to, for either one of us. ;)
I am however backing away from using monikers for either him or his forum that could be construed as derogatory. As I said earlier, the sombrero thing wasn't really intended to be derogatory, even though I will admit that I've used it as such in the past.
Bill Ryan is who he is, and while I may not agree with the way he runs his forum, with his Scientology-based belief system and with how he has been conducting himself in certain matters that I'm not going to get into now, the man does have qualities — which I've already expounded elsewhere. He is putting out the impression that he too is trying to make an effort at making the world a better place, and I've decided that I'm going to be holding him to that.
And so perhaps one day, Bill Ryan himself, his Project Avalon forum and his community of forum members may find themselves as allies to us here at The One Truth, and at our sister forum Eye-Rise. Ultimately, we all want to know the truths that have been kept from us, and we all want to create a better world, for ourselves as well as for those who come after us. And peace is a much more desirable foundation to build such a future upon than war and resentment.
I am still seeing this vision before my eyes as I had in that dream in May last year: The One Truth as this ultramodern/futuristic campus with beautiful ponds and water channels in a somewhat semi-suburban setting, and Project Avalon as this well-maintained medieval castle on the edge of a forest, surrounded by a moat with a firm wooden bridge, and with an illuminated path leading to it from within the forest. And in between these two campuses, there was a landscape that I can only describe as very Shire-like, with people roaming about, talking to one another, or simply doing other things, like studying plants or reading. It was all very peaceful and agreeable, and everyone was enjoying the warm spring evening.
Who we are as individuals is less important to the world or to humanity and its destiny than what we do in the time we've been allotted. Nobody's perfect, and we don't have to agree on everything. But we can at least try to get along. We're all neighbors on the internet. And one day, one of the neighbors might have run out of sugar for their coffee or tea, and might ring another neighbor's doorbell to ask if they can spare a handful of sugar cubes until the grocery shops open the next day.
I think you know what I'm saying. ;)
yeah, I does...it's called 'altruism'. It's vital as a counter to our other fuzzy instinctual behaviors.
Dumpster Diver
20th April 2018, 00:06
Oh, oh. Does this mean I’ll have to behave and quit using the terms “Darth Hatman” or “Kool-aid stand”? Or that the Hatman is running a alt-world psyop?
...all the fun will go out of my life...:cry:
Emil El Zapato
20th April 2018, 00:10
heck no, man...reciprocity is the key...you don't even have to be patient...
Aianawa
19th October 2018, 06:57
I kept quiet on this , watched Bills pain body get activated on Papa site wee while ago regards the Q topic and then watched the clinical style BPB adheres to, cost him and site dearly this time, losing some great members including a fellow Kiwi nil posting on sites most popular thread ( I think ). Was like watching a slow train wreck
Aragorn
19th October 2018, 13:51
I kept quiet on this , watched Bills pain body get activated on Papa site wee while ago regards the Q topic and then watched the clinical style BPB adheres to, cost him and site dearly this time, losing some great members including a fellow Kiwi nil posting on sites most popular thread ( I think ). Was like watching a slow train wreck
Okay, now wait a minute... So what you're saying is that when somebody sees that QAnon nonsense for what it is and calls it as he sees it, then it's only "his pain body" getting activated? :belief:
Sorry Bro, but the QAnon phenomenon is a hoax perpetrated by a number of clever "alt-right" fanatics with the intent of rallying support for an already incumbent* US president who has so far been nixing every environmental protection act in favor of Big Oil Incorporated™ and Big Coal Incorporated™. Because protecting the planet and the environment is so very "Deep State™", you know? :rolleyes:
* An already incumbent president doesn't need any cheerleaders or fan club, although this level of political bigotry would of course be perfectly consistent with a fascist regime.
And the USA is indeed a de facto crypto-fascist regime, which has over the years been financially, logistically and militarily supporting various other fascist regimes in the world, all the way from Adolf Hitler — who did business with US Republican Senator Prescott Bush, father of George H. and grandfather of George W. and Jeb — over Fulgencio Batista and Augusto Pinochet, up to the ultra-right-wing Likud party in Israel, the Wahhabi regime in Saudi Arabia, fascist terrorist groups in Italy and former Yugoslavia, the neo-Nazi separatists in Ukraine, and many, many others.
For myself personally, this whole QAnon nonsense and the incomprehensible support for Donald Trump under the ludicrous belief that he would be some sort of long-awaited Messiah figure who has descended from the corporate heavens with the help of the Holy Mafia and Saint Vladimir of Moscow in order to come and kick the asses of the alleged "Deep State™", themselves incarnated in these mortal realms as the Satanic US Democrat Party — colloquially also known among members of the Church of Trump as "libtards" — is a clear indicator of the fact that humanity has (d)evolved into Idiocracy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy).
http://users.telenet.be/stryder/Humor/6thsense.jpeg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-evmxEntD7SI/VL_kHezVuDI/AAAAAAAAFd4/poN3qDU23cQ/s1600/EmilysQuotes.jpg
And this here is supposed to be an alternative community? Aren't we supposed to be smarter than to fall for something that is (1) exclusively tied to the United States of America and (2) nothing but the same age-old battle between thesis and antithesis? Aren't we supposed to have risen above that ridiculous bloodlust and bigotry?
Just because one does not support the US Republicans, the Trump administration and the make-believe "super duper seekrit insider" cosplay show from those QAnon clowns doesn't mean that one would automatically be supportive of the US Democrats and/or the "Deep State™".
Like myself, Bill Ryan is not a US American, and is very much aware of the fact that there are still 7.1 billion human beings living on those apparently unexplored patches of land outside of the borders of the United States of "God Bless" America. And like myself (and many, many others), Bill Ryan knows that QAnon is just another hoax — a decoy to keep people locked into their bipartisan bigotry.
Time to get off my beer case again. Geez, now this thread is becoming a facsimile of the "Pissed and Annoyed (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/9759-Pissed-and-Annoyed)" thread, and gawd knows that we needed yet another thread about US American politics. Oh, but wait, lookie here! (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12627-Trump-vs-The-Deep-State) :rolleyes:
:fpalm:
Chris
19th October 2018, 16:55
You are absolutely right, so many threads are turning into Trump Discussion Forums, that we might as well rename this forum Trump Only Threads. It is deeply annoying, but what can you do, he is supposedly the leader of the free world and it is impossible to tune him out.
I have a similar Issue with Brexit, where I want to Gouge my Eyes out each time I see another Brexit-related news item, that is catastrophic just in itself, even without all the other catastrophic bits of news, yet I can't look away and I do click and read.
I suppose if something is really bad, a true catastrophe, we just can't look away, we are mesmerised by the slow-motion trainwreck unfolding before our eyes.
Aianawa
19th October 2018, 22:59
Dear oh dear, matters not Q real or Q fake, BPB is the topic, imo he was deeply triggered and fallout
Fred Steeves
19th October 2018, 23:27
Dear oh dear, matters not Q real or Q fake, BPB is the topic, imo he was deeply triggered and fallout
The Q phenomena is innately divisive. That's what is does.
Aianawa
20th October 2018, 03:29
Absolute rubbish imo, take sides and keep the Weres happy if you please.
Fred Steeves
20th October 2018, 10:26
The Q phenomena is innately divisive. That's what is does.
Absolute rubbish imo, take sides and keep the Weres happy if you please.
How is pointing out that Caesar is strutting around town with no clothes taking sides, or pleasing Rome's hierarchy?
Aianawa
20th October 2018, 10:59
It is not, in general , maybe
Chris
20th October 2018, 19:41
Jesus Christ, the Arsch Licking that goes on over at the Kool Aid Stand has reached another level altogether.
Just read this comment about how awesome the Son of God is and everyone should be forever thankful to him, this, after they just drove several long-standing members away from that forum:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104723-Personal-message-to-Members-and-Guests-from-Tintin
Of course they made sure to close the thread so no member can reply and point out how ridiculous and cultish this all is.
:fpalm::fpalm::fpalm:
Aragorn
20th October 2018, 21:52
Jesus Christ, the Arsch Licking that goes on over at the Kool Aid Stand has reached another level altogether.
Just read this comment about how awesome the Son of God is and everyone should be forever thankful to him, this, after they just drove several long-standing members away from that forum:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104723-Personal-message-to-Members-and-Guests-from-Tintin
Of course they made sure to close the thread so no member can reply and point out how ridiculous and cultish this all is.
:fpalm::fpalm::fpalm:
Well, I am not going to comment on anything you said here-above, nor on the content of Tintin's post, but he does bring up a good point on account of running a forum which I think deserves being addressed, namely that the members seldom know what's going on in the mod room and in the back-channels — by which I mean private messaging here at the forum and email exchanges off of the forum.
Over here at The One Truth, we've seen first-hand how easily members can jump to the wrong conclusions — Malc and I to a much greater extent than our other staff members, because only Malc and myself have remained from the staff that was on duty back in April 2015. All other staff members from that time have already long left, and — I've said this before — I was the only one of them who hadn't volunteered himself to become a moderator. I was recruited by explicit and somewhat insisting invitation.
The moderators who were hired before me or roughly together with me all stepped down again within a relatively short time after they had been hired — with the exception of bsbray, who was hired a few weeks after me as a replacement for two moderators who had already stepped down again quite early on. Even Church, who was the administrator when I was brought on board as a moderator, eventually stepped down from that role again after only about four months or so — he had also already been a staff member here in an earlier time, and then too he had stepped down after a while.
I myself was brought on board in a very turbulent time, smack in the middle of the battle between Corey Goode and the Ruiner groupies, with an additional drama plot going down on the side of it all. Former administrator 777 had decided to step down when Malc rehired Church as a super moderator, which is why Malc then made Church the administrator.
777 and Church were very different in their style of administering a forum. 777 did not agree with Malc's decision to bring Church back on the team, and so he resigned in protest. He then posted a thread that was very scathing toward Malc, and then he left the forum. 777 had a lot of friends here — most of whom had been members here since the very beginnings of The One Truth — and they all left the forum together, either on the same day, or on the day that followed.
We lost some 20 to 30 members that day, if I remember correctly. Some of those were actually very nice people — some were not — but due to 777 stepping down and leaving the forum, they had all suddenly become massively distrustful toward the staff, and toward Malc in particular. Ludicrous allegations and innuendos were posted all over the forum, suggesting or even claiming that we would be censoring free speech, that we would be reading members' private messages, and so on.
A lot of these people were former (or still active) Project Avalon members, and they had already developed a sense of paranoia on account of the staff at Project Avalon, so when they joined up here, they brought that paranoia with them to The One Truth. And the fact that we lost a number of recent posts on two occasions because we were forced to restore a backup that rolled back the forum to an earlier state wasn't exactly helping either.
We were receiving private messages with pompous insults, and a small group of members started an insurrection in the name of "civil disobedience", thereby spamming the forum and mass-messaging all members with a very carefully worded piece of neurolinguistic programming, in which it was stated that we were engaging in censorship and that we were exhibiting favoritism toward certain members.
Corey Goode for instance was accusing us of showing favoritism toward the Ruiner groupies — he even accused us of being Ruiner groupies ourselves on the day he left the forum — and the Ruiner groupies in turn were accusing us of favoritism toward Corey. You just couldn't win, and so among all that invective, in the end we ourselves as staff members were painted the bad guys.
And then this is all once again one of these manifestations of the Hegelian dialectic that I've been bringing up so often in recent times, i.e. the thesis, the antithesis and the synthesis. If we consider Corey Goode the thesis — because he was already a member here before Ria and Breeze started posting the Ruiner blog here — then Ria & Co would have been the antithesis. And they were both so caught up in their hate for each other that they couldn't see things for what they really were on account of our moderator action back in those days. They could only see things from their own and very narrow perspective, while we in the mod room saw things from a grander perspective — the synthesis — and so we could much better assess what was going on between them than either of them could.
The sad part of it all — both on account of 777's stepping down and the exodus of those longstanding and original members, and on account of the feud between Corey Goode and the Ruiner groupies — was that the atmosphere of general distrust toward the staff kept on spreading.
This is why I think that Tintin's post at Project Avalon is making an important point. The members in general don't know what's going on in the mod room — or how we often try settling disputes between members and/or work to help members solve personal problems by way of private messages — and they often fail to see the grander picture, because they don't have the same information as we do.
And it's not like we live in an ivory tower either. We do have the grander view from within the mod room, but we're also operating "on the ground", because for most part, we dwell among the members and partake in many discussions out here on the open forum. We can't (and won't) monitor each and every thread, but we try staying in touch with the community at large. Or that is to say, insofar as it still is a community, but that's a different topic.
As such, we tend to have a much better understanding of our member base than our member base has of us, notwithstanding the fact that we're pretty transparent in everything we do. But then again, there's always going to be somebody somewhere who for some reason doesn't like what we do, or what we are like as people. And jerks will always be jerks, I guess.
Anyway, I just felt like I needed to point that out, even though it doesn't have anything to do with Project Avalon or Bill Ryan. ;)
Aianawa
20th October 2018, 21:59
Lol BPB is creating new energy here for us all, change change change yes ?
Fred Steeves
20th October 2018, 22:21
Jesus Christ, the Arsch Licking that goes on over at the Kool Aid Stand has reached another level altogether.
Wow...
Well Tintin was a member for a whole year before being modded, so I reckon between that vast experience, combined with four months now up there in the fusion center, he's got his finger resting pretty well on the pulse of his surroundings. Time to be a boss!!!
Seriously though Tintin, if you ever catch wind of this post, I hope you snap out of that spell you're under one of these days.
That's from the heart brother.
Aragorn
20th October 2018, 22:32
[...]
Seriously though Tintin, if you ever catch wind of this post [...]
Well, we do have a certain amount of Wind moving through both our own neck of the woods and the forest that La Casa de Señor Ryan was built in. :p
:ttr:
Aianawa
16th June 2019, 10:50
This thread is szending me back in time lol.
Aianawa
17th June 2019, 03:57
Also interesting as a wee birdie said Bill is on pain body watch by his peers.
Chester
18th June 2019, 02:45
Also interesting as a wee birdie said Bill is on pain body watch by his peers.
Gosh man - Bill seems to have cleaned house over there...
Ilie unsubscribed and Paul retired (both of their administrators - wow)
and then a whole slew of mods gone...
Dennis – no longer a mod
Kristin - retired
Jean - unsubscribed
Chip - retired
Sierra - retired
Debra - retired
Usually when this happens, Bill has his reasons.
Aragorn
18th June 2019, 07:39
Gosh man - Bill seems to have cleaned house over there...
Ilie unsubscribed and Paul retired (both of their administrators - wow)
and then a whole slew of mods gone...
Dennis – no longer a mod
Kristin - retired
Jean - unsubscribed
Chip - retired
Sierra - retired
Sierra was also an administrator. She was a moderator for most of my own tenure at Project Avalon, but then she was promoted to administrator later because of her experience with database management.
Debra - retired
Chip has stepped down, and according to Bill, he has also halted his monthly donations. I'm guessing Jean-Marie got to him. :hmm:
Usually when this happens, Bill has his reasons.
He most certainly does. From what I've been told by someone with a closer look on the matter, when Bill was absent from the forum and from the staff chat for a number of days, Jean-Marie instigated a hate campaign against Dennis Leahy with the help of Kristin, and managed to completely divide the staff team over there.
Jean-Marie is no stranger to this sort of intrigues. I have reliable information that she was already involved with some nastiness over at Project Avalon a long time ago, which included breaches of confidentiality and the twisting of information until it meant something completely different. Either the woman is mentally unstable and addicted to drama, or she's a deliberate agitator ─ by which I mean "a plant". I'm not paranoid enough to buy into the "government infiltration" hypothesis ─ if this were on distributed platforms like Twitter, Reddit or Facebook, then yes, but on an isolated forum, no, not likely ─ but I'll let Bill decide for himself on that. The woman was bad news anyway.
Tommy Hansen, the administrator of Project Camelot's own forum, is now replacing Paul, leaving only him and Hervé as administrators anymore in addition to Bill. From the looks of things (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showgroups.php), the Project Avalon mod team has been severely decimated. But then again, this sort of thing has happened before, and I think Bill will find a way to repair the situation eventually. There are plenty of good people over at Project Avalon, and some of them might be willing to step up as moderators if invited to do so. I only hope that Bill chooses wisely, for his own sake. :hmm:
Ilie's departure was some time ago, though, and it had nothing to do with the recent events. As I gather, that affair was related to Inelia Benz. I don't know the finer details of why Ilie left, but what I do know is that he deleted his account from the database on his way out, which makes it impossible to still search for his posts ─ the posts of deleted accounts are all grouped together under a fallback "Guest" entry in the database, and they are still visible, but you cannot run a search on the poster name anymore. I don't know why Ilie did that, but that's what he did. :hmm:
The roots of all this drama go back a ways to the end of 2013 (from my observations).
Many will sadly never realize the true dynamics of this once vibrant community ...
Participants have come and gone and with them that mysterious magic that once was
Avalon ...
AFTER THE LOVE HAS GONE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw-em78BCRw
Aragorn
18th June 2019, 14:14
The roots of all this drama go back a ways to the end of 2013 (from my observations).
Many will sadly never realize the true dynamics of this once vibrant community ...
Participants have come and gone and with them that mysterious magic that once was
But maybe the magic that many remember was never really there in the first place? Maybe it was all an illusion, just like in a magician's show?
Of course, this here is The One Truth, not Project Avalon, so I can only report on what I've experienced in my now four-year residence here, but I think that the people who've remained all this time ─ as well as some whose acquaintance we've only made more recently, but who also appear to want to stay ─ would be the people with the real magic. It may not be as spectacular as the magic once promised by the purveyors of make-believe ─ the years have brought about a very thorough distillation process that also washed away the glitter ─ but it's still a kind of magic nevertheless. :) :eyebrows:
But maybe the magic that many remember was never really there in the first place? Maybe it was all an illusion, just like in a magician's show?
Perhaps, though it was very real for me.
Of course, this here is The One Truth, not Project Avalon, so I can only report on what I've experienced in my now four-year residence here, but I think that the people who've remained all this time ─ as well as some whose acquaintance we've only made more recently, but who also appear to want to stay ─ would be the people with the real magic. It may not be as spectacular as the magic once promised by the purveyors of make-believe ─ the years have brought about a very thorough distillation process that also washed away the glitter ─ but it's still a kind of magic nevertheless. :) :eyebrows:
Whatever magic (real or imaginary) was quite literally squandered by the owner/stewardship of Bill Ryan.
Aragorn
18th June 2019, 15:26
Whatever magic (real or imaginary) was quite literally squandered by the owner/stewardship of Bill Ryan.
Well, Bill has certainly made his share of mistakes, and some of those were very grave mistakes too. That much is true, but I'm not going to be his judge. I've been there, I've done that, and I was chewed up and spat out because of it. Not because it was wrong ─ which it was ─ but because the people who were chewing me up and spitting me out over my criticisms of Bill Ryan were doing it for all the wrong reasons, and some of those very same people have all along been chewing up and spitting out several other people back at Project Avalon itself. It's what they do, and they're so full of prejudices ─ in many different ways ─ that they're still light-years removed from the level of spiritual maturity they believe to have attained already, not to mention that they would have attained genuine enlightenment.
Either way, Bill Ryan doesn't live in a vacuum. First and foremost, he's got moderators and administrators to help him run Project Avalon, and those moderators and administrators are fallible people too. Secondly, there's also the member base. As already referenced in the above paragraph, there are many people there who believe themselves to be without flaws, and whose only reason for their presence on that forum appears to be attacking other members and/or propagandizing and proselytizing whatever cause they support.
One of the people who so vocally chewed me up and spat me out over here at The One Truth for having criticized Bill Ryan ─ which, again, truly was a mistake I myself had been making all along ─ was himself recently temporarily banned from Project Avalon because of how he was hounding other members. But it wasn't the first time that he did that, and he is someone who will never apologize. So he was eventually temporarily banned ─ along with another person who's gone so far off the rails that even the GPS satellites can't find him anymore :p ─ but he had already been getting away with his bullying for a long time, and the mods let him.
Maybe they didn't know. Maybe they didn't care. Maybe they were siding up with him. But it was happening, and things like that do tend to drive people away from the forum. Even here in our little Shire, we've had people staying away because some other member was hounding them, in spite of our interventions as staff members ─ because we did and do intervene in situations like that. But this is a much smaller forum, and so it's also easier for us to spot a situation like that and to respond right away. Perhaps Project Avalon does not have that luxury, due to its circumference ─ I'm not making excuses for them, but I am saying it like it is. Either way, conflicts between members can and do drive members away.
In any case, there are many variables involved. The atmosphere of a forum is not just a matter of its management, but also of its member base. Again, Bill did make mistakes ─ and, I repeat, some of them were very grave mistakes ─ but he's not solely responsible for how things have evolved over at Project Avalon, and certainly not on account of the so-called alternative community at large.
It is one of the memes within this so-called alternative community that we are all co-creators. But that also means that we are all co-responsible. And the latter is something many people seem to forget ─ if they've even realized it in the first place. :hmm:
Speaking - Bills Pain Body ...
Re: The Impermanence of All Things (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?88989-The-Impermanence-of-All-Things&p=1297978&viewfull=1#post1297978)
Aianawa
18th June 2019, 23:04
Bright side is we may see some nice new faces , yes ?
Aragorn
19th June 2019, 09:50
Bright side is we may see some nice new faces , yes ?
That possibility exists, but then that still doesn't mean that they'd be sticking around. More often than not, such people are merely using The One Truth as a stopgap, until the smoke clears out above whatever bush was on fire over at Project Avalon. And then as soon as the bush fire's out, they leave us behind without any qualm and return to Project Avalon again, with all memory of our existence spontaneously wiped clean from their brain cells.
It's not a community, so much as that it is an audience looking for self-gratification ─ wherever they can get it. And that pisses me off. It annoys me. And so I should really have posted this on the Pissed and Annoyed thread. But then it wouldn't be a reply to you, unless I include a link to your post and mention that it is a reply to you.
Damn, that's too effing complicated, because I haven't even had breakfast yet and it's almost noon. And I'm hungry. And it's hot and sticky today. And I have to pee. So I think I'll just leave this post here, as a direct reply to you. And now I'm off to the kitchen, because I need some food in my stomach.
:p
Chris
19th June 2019, 14:18
That possibility exists, but then that still doesn't mean that they'd be sticking around. More often than not, such people are merely using The One Truth as a stopgap, until the smoke clears out above whatever bush was on fire over at Project Avalon. And then as soon as the bush fire's out, they leave us behind without any qualm and return to Project Avalon again, with all memory of our existence spontaneously wiped clean from their brain cells.
It's not a community, so much as that it is an audience looking for self-gratification ─ wherever they can get it. And that pisses me off. It annoys me. And so I should really have posted this on the Pissed and Annoyed thread. But then it wouldn't be a reply to you, unless I include a link to your post and mention that it is a reply to you.
Damn, that's too effing complicated, because I haven't even had breakfast yet and it's almost noon. And I'm hungry. And it's hot and sticky today. And I have to pee. So I think I'll just leave this post here, as a direct reply to you. And now I'm off to the kitchen, because I need some food in my stomach.
:p
Let's face it,
TOT is more of a fact-based forum with serious discussions, not to mention with a slight Left-wing twang, so it is closer to the typical readership of the Guardian in the UK for instance, whereas PA is more like Daily Mail meets Daily Express.
Whilst that may be commendable in itself, it doesn't necessarily sit well with your typical alternative community member. Most of the members that came in with a big bang and then left or were banned shortly thereafter were your typical Daily Mail/Daily Express reader.
For US members, those are like a combination of Fox News, Breitbart news and the National Inquirer. Lots of far-right propaganda, combined with fakes UFO stories, Yeti sightings and blonde women with big bosoms. Not the stuff of intellectual rigor, that's for sure.
Elen
19th June 2019, 14:27
That possibility exists, but then that still doesn't mean that they'd be sticking around. More often than not, such people are merely using The One Truth as a stopgap, until the smoke clears out above whatever bush was on fire over at Project Avalon. And then as soon as the bush fire's out, they leave us behind without any qualm and return to Project Avalon again, with all memory of our existence spontaneously wiped clean from their brain cells.
It's not a community, so much as that it is an audience looking for self-gratification ─ wherever they can get it. And that pisses me off. It annoys me. And so I should really have posted this on the Pissed and Annoyed thread. But then it wouldn't be a reply to you, unless I include a link to your post and mention that it is a reply to you.
Damn, that's too effing complicated, because I haven't even had breakfast yet and it's almost noon. And I'm hungry. And it's hot and sticky today. And I have to pee. So I think I'll just leave this post here, as a direct reply to you. And now I'm off to the kitchen, because I need some food in my stomach.
:p
OK OK...don't hold anything back Aragorn...let it all out! :grin:
Aragorn
19th June 2019, 14:30
OK OK...don't hold anything back Aragorn...let it all out! :grin:
I did. My bladder was very grateful. :p :hiding: :onthequite:
Dreamtimer
19th June 2019, 14:36
..with some Daily Caller mixed in?:rolleyes::p
Forums are for discussion and debate when folks know how.
They're not soapboxes, though people sometimes use them as such.
The lack of reply and/or consideration of ideas is a great indicator of motive. Folks who judge and don't want to discuss or debate should maybe start their own blog rather than abuse a forum.
I'm surprised at the emotional dynamic and I shouldn't be at all. It's human. I just expect more maturity than is often demonstrated.
Bill's post was interesting to me. I can't say I've never fallen. I fell a lot playing roller hockey. And I got bruises. But nothing sprained or broken.
The worst falls I've had were off of wet stairs and in a wet shower. Both potentially very dangerous. I escaped with pulls and bruises, but no serious injury.
And so I consider myself lucky and am being more careful/less careless.
The synchronicity of his fall and the fallout at Avalon are certainly interesting.
And there's a post from Kerry just up the page.
Aianawa
20th June 2019, 02:53
The collective pain body is happy n content atm , well fed indeed, Great time to watch for self sabotage atm, ask Bill where things are for him and likely answer, alls xlent lol.
This lull burst and consequences has been intense, micro I did a 3 day course, 11 to 12 hour days, finishing with dimensional brain surgery ( went extra well if your wondering ), lull ripples etc sunday especially and then all go, much incoming.
Aianawa
21st June 2019, 04:10
I feel that if Bill has a handler, atm he is being handled.
Aragorn
22nd June 2019, 03:57
I feel that if Bill has a handler, atm he is being handled.
Aren't we all being handled to some degree? :hmm: In this case, Bill was betrayed by Jean-Marie. I don't know whether that qualifies as "being handled", but nobody lives in a vacuum. One's actions always have consequences. And in this case, Jean-Marie caused quite a stir, and she didn't waste any time either. Almost half of Bill's mods left, over something that (conveniently) went down while Bill was away from the keyboard for a few days. It's almost as if she was waiting for that moment.
Whatever happened, it did a lot of damage. Contained damage, but still. And in a way, it reminds me of how our former mods over here were stepping down one after the other because of the stress of the battle between Corey Goode and the Ruiner groupies. In the end, it was only Malc, myself and Brian Brainwash™ anymore, from a team of eight staff members only three months earlier. Even though The One Truth is a small forum compared to Project Avalon, running this place with only three people was very hard, and especially with Corey and the Ruiner groupies still running amok.
Bill may be in a bit of a dip right now, but he'll find a way. He's a survivor. ;)
Aianawa
22nd June 2019, 09:42
May Bill be blessed with all his hearts desires.
Fred Steeves
22nd June 2019, 13:19
In this case, Bill was betrayed by Jean-Marie.
Bill may be in a bit of a dip right now, but he'll find a way. He's a survivor. ;)
I know right? This poor beacon of truth and integrity in the alt community, who in reality we should all be looking to as a guide for our way forward, has instead been besieged and betrayed by countless staff and members ever since he surfaced in 2006 with his *first* Project.
When will it ever end for him? It's almost like witnessing the trials and tribulations of a modern day Job from the Bible. :p
Emil El Zapato
22nd June 2019, 13:25
I don't think Job asked for any of it or maybe he did but...Gawd, who knows!
Unfortunately, most (if not all) do not know the real back story here ...
It might be wiser to stop sympathizing towards this cad ...
Forgive if you like, but never forget.
As far as being a survivalist and bouncing back, the resiliency of
another narcissist comes to mind ... If you get my drift.
Aragorn
22nd June 2019, 14:10
This poor beacon of truth and integrity in the alt community, who in reality we should all be looking to as a guide for our way forward, has instead been besieged and betrayed by countless staff and members ever since he surfaced in 2006 with his *first* Project.
When will it ever end for him? It's almost like witnessing the trials and tribulations of a modern day Job from the Bible. :p
Come on, Fred, we all know Bill Ryan has made mistakes ─ just like we all have. And if you're in a, shall we say, "high-profile" situation, then your mistakes weigh in heavier with the masses ─ never even mind whatever good things you do, because by tomorrow everyone has already long forgotten about that. It's the mistakes that the masses remember, because ─ as I wrote elsewhere earlier ─ most people find it easy to forgive themselves and hard to forgive the other, which is exactly the opposite of how it should be.
Fact is that this Jean-Marie person was trouble. We know that from other things she was involved with, and which were confidentially shared with us in the mod room by the person who was directly affected by Jean-Marie's actions. We all know the tale of the wolf in the sheep's clothing, and it would appear that Jean-Marie is such a person. When Bill brought her into the mod room, little did he realize he had just reeled in the Trojan Horse.
Of course, there are things that make it all look even worse than it is, such as Paul Jackson stepping down as the main administrator at Project Avalon, but Paul had obviously already wanted to do that for longer, and his resignation as a staff member had nothing to do with the intrigues revolving around Jean-Marie ─ of which there were two separate ones, if I understood Bill correctly: the first one having to do with a witch hunt against Dennis Leahy, and the second one having to do with the vilification of Constance.
Shit happens, man. We've had our share of it over here as well, and I'm sure that somebody somewhere will blame it on the current management of The One Truth ─ or in any case, on me. I've heard those accusations before. I'm a humble man, but I am very much aware of the changes I've introduced to The One Truth ─ changes that were badly needed in order to make this forum into a well-organized and peaceful place.
Whatever you do, the one thing you can be sure of is that somebody somewhere isn't going to like it. Bill is a human being with qualities and flaws, just as I am, and as you are, and as we all are. And some of those flaws have become amplified because of Bill's higher profile within the so-called alternative community. But let's not go hyperbolic and blame Bill Ryan for everything that ever went wrong at Project Avalon, because that would be equally unjust.
Wherever there is a large group of people together, you will find intrigues. We've even had some (minor) intrigues over here at The One Truth. But Project Avalon has almost 12'000 members, whereby the number of active members sits about ten times higher than what we get over here at The One Truth. The mod team over there was until recently also larger ─ as required by the circumference of the forum ─ and so that introduces yet another possible field of contamination with personal intrigues. And in this case, that's exactly what has happened.
Just as with bipartisan politics, there's always a grander vision, Fred. ;)
Fred Steeves
23rd June 2019, 14:35
Come on, Fred, we all know Bill Ryan has made mistakes ─ just like we all have.
Unwitting mistakes are one thing, but "mistakes" the likes of Saddam's infamous no weapons of mass destruction, or Al Qaida links, are of a whole other breed. Of course light years apart in scale, but it's the underlying intent that separates mistakes, from "mistakes". I make mistakes, just as you make mistakes, but neither of us make "mistakes".
Aragorn you're a good guy and I respect you, you definitely live by an honor code as advertised. Just that something weird happened when you saw Bill's "warning" to this forum about Chris coming over here. Just because you two had some subsequent amiable exchanges doesn't negate the very real possibility that he would still throw you under the bus (in a heart beat!), if he thought it could help maintain his meticulously crafted public image of the battered warrior for truth and justice.
Your original observations and instincts were correct. It was just a bit overboard in taking it so personally. I think you've now over compensated.
if I understood Bill correctly:
Now this cuts down to the heart of it. How is it that everyone automatically takes his word, HIS side of ANY given story, as the gospel truth. Every single time, with out question. Why do we never hear other sides, other possible versions of events? Or at the least, why is there never even any evidence put forth indicating that his side of the story is indeed likely the correct version?
I think that's a damn good question.
The following short video is exactly what I'm getting at, although it can be done via print as well on a forum. This guy is one of the main cop watchers I've followed over the years, and recently there's been riffs in that community just as happens from time to time in this community. Notice how he actually *demonstrates* his side of the story with good old fashioned documentation, and doesn't just assume everyone will believe his severe allegations at face value.
It's not that difficult. Unless you can't actually produce the content...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqChuel8lWE
Bill is a human being with qualities and flaws, just as I am, and as you are, and as we all are.
No, I am nothing like him, and neither are you whether you realize it or not my friend.
Now as an aside, what's the deal with charging a personal fee for these meet ups? It raised an eyebrow when he charged a fee for going to Laughlin, but now he's doing it again for nothing but sitting at home in Ecuador waiting for everyone else to spend all kinds of money to come to his back yard?
WHO DOES THAT!
Look Bill I'm sorry your dog's eye got fucked up and your roof has mold. But for chrissake man The Project already pays your bills, and puts food on the table, why are they now expected to pay for life's inevitable emergencies as well. Why not pick up a part time job or something like everyone else would do?
Do you just not like to work for your money? You spend enough time mountain climbing so there are obviously no physical hindrances, and you're obviously not mentally hindered in any way other than still not bothering to learn the native language, so I don't see any handicaps that would prevent you from doing that. You're a smart guy, you could figure something out if you really wanted to.
But hey, they're more than willing to pay, so why the hell not?
Personally though I could not imagine myself even *contemplating* such an ask, much less casually pulling the trigger on it.
Aianawa
24th June 2019, 05:45
Who's pain body we actually talking about lol.
Aragorn
24th June 2019, 13:26
I have not responded to Fred's post higher up, because of several reasons. First of all, Fred and I have been discussing this matter further via private messages, and secondly, I felt that his last post on this thread here was so far off track that I couldn't bring myself to list all of the reasons why I didn't agree with him.
Thirdly however, there has been a new development that some of you are already aware of by now, and which has already prompted a few of you to start talking libelous about me behind my back ─ you know who you are, and perhaps even more importantly, I know it too. :mad:
:watch:
Anyway, over the course of the past couple of days, I have been in contact with Bill Ryan again via email. The contact was initiated by Bill himself, partly in response to the discussions here at The One Truth regarding the recent events as they have unfolded over at Project Avalon. As always, the exchange was very cordial and amicable.
In said exchange, Bill once again apologized for his mistake in the Simon Parkes affair, emphasizing that I had been right and that he had been wrong. He then also realized that my account over at Project Avalon was still listed as "unsubscribed" ─ which is the same thing as "banned" over here ─ and he first offered me to switch it over to the honorable retirement status, but then a few lines farther down, he offered to reactivate my account so that I could return to Project Avalon as an active member, should I wish to do so.
I decided to accept Bill's gracious offer, and so now I am an active member again over at Project Avalon. Bill also announced this on Project Avalon's members-only "MODERATOR ACTIONS" thread, and he added another apology to that ─ publicly this time.
Now, don't get me wrong. My reason for accepting Bill's offer does not imply in any way, shape or form that I would be stepping down as administrator here at The One Truth, nor does it mean that I've sold out to Bill Ryan ─ again: you know who you are, you backstabbing liar who said this about me ─ but instead, I have accepted Bill's offer to return to Project Avalon in order to be an official liaison between both forums and, through us here, also between Project Avalon and our sister forum Eye-Rise.
Some of you may not like that. Some of you unfortunately revel in the idea of competition and animosity. But I do not, nor do the other staff members of The One Truth. In fact, Malc is quite happy with my decision, as is my brother Wind. Kathy hasn't seen my report in the mod room yet, and the two other ladies have not been online yet either, because Dreamtimer is currently traveling with her husband, and Elen's internet connection ─ which ran above ground ─ was severed by a tree that got knocked over by a storm, and that barely missed the house she lives in. But I am either way quite certain that they will all applaud Bill's offer and my decision to accept it.
The One Truth's motto is and has always been that together we make a difference. If you remember, back in May 2017 I had a strange but nice dream about The One Truth and Project Avalon being two physical places, and of how I ran into Bill on the fields in between them and ended up having a few beers with him here at The One Truth. I do often have prophetic dreams, but they are usually very cryptic. And right now, it would appear that this dream about The One Truth and Project Avalon was also a prophecy ─ one that has now come to materialize.
In the end, there is always a grander vision. Some of us were hurt by Project Avalon a while ago ─ I myself was one of those people. But just as today's The One Truth is no longer the The One Truth of 2015 and earlier, so is today's Project Avalon no longer the Project Avalon of the same vintage. Things change. People change, and most importantly, so do their opinions and their level of wisdom and experience. Because the clock keeps on ticking, and with every passing second, new information enters your mind and gets stored in your memory cortex ─ information that will present itself back into your awareness in due time, and that will cause you to see things differently.
None of us are perfect. None. Sure, we have in the past had a few people here who were under the false impression that they themselves were perfect ─ Christopher the narcissist springs to mind, and a character from back in 2015 who went by the name Anarp (which is "prana" ("life"/"live") spelled backwards ("evil")) and who was equally pompous. In fact, they may have been one and the same person for all I know.
But nobody on this Earth is perfect, least of all me, even though I obsessively try achieving perfection in everything I do, because I consider that my duty. It is my firmest belief that we should all strive to become the best we can offer to our fellow human beings, although I will also accept that not everyone shares that conviction.
If this liaison between The One Truth/Eye-Rise and Project Avalon works out as I hope it would ─ and remember: yesterday was only the beginning of this endeavor ─ then the so-called alternative community at large will become bigger and stronger because of it. There has been too much divisiveness in the last couple of years, not in the least caused by the controversial election of Donald Trump as the president of the USA. And some people felt good about that, because they absolutely love El Donaldo the Banana Republican™ (© giovonni), while others felt equally good about it because they passionately hate the guy, and so they now had something to focus their aggression on and vent about.
For many, the divisiveness became a kind of social addiction. It had a very bad influence on The One Truth ─ cfr. turiya and his buddy Steven ─ and it has had an equally bad influence on Project Avalon, where Paul Jackson stepped down as administrator and retired his own account because people were raising legitimate concerns regarding how his pro-Trump and pro-QAnon stance affected his duties as an administrator. And indirectly, this then also led to the situation where Jean-Marie, Kristin and Sierra began hounding their fellow staff member Dennis Leahy and badmouthing their other fellow staff members Mike and Constance.
We all have divisive thoughts to some extent, and I myself am no stranger to that either. I'm a warrior, and a warrior fights for a cause, which means that there's an enemy. But in all personal exchanges, even with my (real or perceived) enemies, I will always treat them with respect, because of who and what they are. Everything in existence has a purpose, and is therefore sacred to some extent, how repulsive it may be. And as repulsed as I myself may be by some people, I will always respect them for existing, and I will always attempt to reach out to that little spark of good within them, no matter how small. Because if I can connect with that little spark, then there is a harmony, and harmony is constructive. The whole universe is connected by harmonic vibrations. Music is all about harmonic vibrations.
The above in mind, I acknowledge that I am a warrior fighting for a cause, but at the same time, I am also aware of the grander vision, in which everything has purpose and everything makes sense, even if I don't agree with it. And that is why I would rather build bridges than blow them up.
I had a brief private exchange with Project Avalon moderator Mike last night, in which he described to me something very beautiful and yet very tragic at the same time, namely how in wartime, when one submarine destroys another submarine, the crew of the submarine that destroys the other one will always mourn over what they just had to do. Because above the surface of the sea, there may be a war going on, but below the surface, they are all human beings locked up inside of a large metal tube deep down in the water, and it doesn't matter whose side you're on. Warriors respect one another. This was also already the case among the ancient samurai of Japan, and Gene Roddenberry incorporated it into the psyche and social culture of the Klingons.
In a way, it is comparable to the experience of the astronauts who went to the moon and who were looking upon the Earth from all the way up there. Earth is our home, and we are all brothers and sisters, regardless of our creed, religion, nationality, language, gender, eye color, clothing, sexual orientation or whatever other difference identifies us as individuals.
Mahatma Gandhi said that you must become the change you wish to see in the world, and he was right. Always be true to yourself, but never forget that you are not alone on this planet, and that we all need each other. Cooperation and harmony are what builds bridges, not competition or strife.
I'm trying to make a difference for the greater good. What about you guys? ;)
:lets make:
:group hug:
P.S.: Brian Brainwash™ has been permanently banned from Project Avalon as of last night, after he was indulging in yet another bullying spree against a Project Avalon member whom he had already been hounding on several occasions earlier. He was first banned from the thread itself by Hervé, shortly thereafter followed by a complete ban from the forum by Bill himself, because ─ and I'm quoting Bill now ─ "he had the sensitivity of a cross between an armadillo and a rattlesnake."
I couldn't help but chuckle, first when Hervé put him in his place, and then when Bill wrote the above. :p
Congratulations !
While all this comes as a momentary shock (but not a total surprise to me) ...
Not having anything to do with any of this forum (front and back room) intrigue ...
I will have to seriously weigh out and reevaluate my participation any further here.
Aragorn
24th June 2019, 15:07
Congratulations !
While all this comes as a momentary shock (but not a total surprise to me) ...
Not having anything to do with any of this forum (front and back room) intrigue ...
There is no intrigue, Gio. It is all very honest, and the integrity of neither The One Truth as a whole nor that of its management have been compromised. Both The One Truth and Project Avalon will remain completely autonomous entities, with their own atmosphere, their own mission and their own management style. But now there is at least a pathway between both forums that allows us to communicate with them and for them to communicate with us in an official manner. It's not merely a cease-fire, but a peaceful coexistence with mutual respect. And considering the Cold War scenario that had existed in the past, I'd say that's one hell of a progress.
It is not dissimilar to how Kerry Cassidy is also a member ─ note: a regular member, not a staff member ─ at Project Avalon, even though Bill and Kerry have their serious differences of opinion in many matters. But it allows Kerry to respond to some of the questions from or statements by Project Avalon members on account of her own work over at Project Camelot, without requiring those particular members to actually sign up at Project Camelot.
When I am over at Project Avalon, then I am merely a guest at Bill's house, but I'm a guest whose phone number he has ─ metaphorically speaking ─ in case he needs to clarify something or wants us to clarify something to him. There's a paved and illuminated path between our campus and theirs now, instead of a minefield and barb wire. And that's a Good Thing™.
I will have to seriously weigh out and reevaluate my participation any further here.
Nothing has changed on account of yourself or any other member here, Gio, and nobody is going to ask or demand that you set your own feelings regarding Project Avalon or Bill Ryan aside. You are sovereign in your emotions and thoughts, and you are still free to post whatever you like, just as you always have.
Furthermore, your presence here on the forum is and has always been constructive, and food for thought. I always enjoy your posts, and as you will have seen, I often reply to them as well. I consider you a valuable and contributing member, and it would be a shame if you were to interpret this recent peace treaty between The One Truth and Project Avalon as enough of a threat to your sovereignty to push you into withdrawing from the forum. :hmm:
Chris
24th June 2019, 18:36
Hmmm, Interesting turn of events...
For the record, I really like Mike over at PA, he was always decent and kind to me. For those that don't remember the events of last year, my sending an entity to do healing on his friend was what set the chain of events in motion that led to my eventual banning at PA and my joining TOT, which also played a significant part in these current events. God(dess) works in mysterious ways, eh?
I think it's a good thing that PA and TOT are co-operating, friendly relations between the two forums are never a bad idea. Can't say I'm the biggest BR fan in the world after some nasty business between us, but I'm not one to hold grudges and my opinion of him has certainly mellowed over the past year.
Still, Dart Hatman bashing is a lot of fun and I sure miss a certain retired member who was very good at it. One of the appeals of TOT for me has always been the way it provided refuge for ex-PA members and a place to vent their frustrations, even if it was unfair at times.
Aragorn
24th June 2019, 20:23
Hmmm, Interesting turn of events...
For the record, I really like Mike over at PA, he was always decent and kind to me. For those that don't remember the events of last year, my sending an entity to do healing on his friend was what set the chain of events in motion that led to my eventual banning at PA and my joining TOT, which also played a significant part in these current events. God(dess) works in mysterious ways, eh?
I noticed upon my return that Mike was on my friends list ─ along with a bunch of people whom I don't even remember anymore, because four years is a long time, and Project Avalon already had thousands of members back in 2015 ─ and Mike was the second person to welcome me back by way of a private message. He's a good guy, and I'm sure he's a good moderator as well. I don't think he was a moderator yet back during my first tenure at Project Avalon, but he's definitely someone I would recommend to Bill as a candidate moderator if he hadn't been one already by now. ;)
I think it's a good thing that PA and TOT are co-operating, friendly relations between the two forums are never a bad idea. Can't say I'm the biggest BR fan in the world after some nasty business between us, but I'm not one to hold grudges and my opinion of him has certainly mellowed over the past year.
Judging by the passive-aggressive refusal of some to thank my last couple of posts here on the thread whereas they otherwise would have, I find it crystal clear that some people here do still hold grudges against Bill Ryan in person or against Project Avalon in general. And what's even worse is that they then project their negative sentiments toward Bill Ryan upon me and declare me guilty by association.
Even more telling is how little faith these people have in myself, in spite of the fact that I have already proven my integrity to them time and time again for as long as they've known me. How much more evidence do they need that not everyone has a nefarious agenda? :hmm:
It's like I said earlier ─ even though I don't remember right now whom I said it to or where I said it ─ but people are very quick to forget the good things you've done, and then when you happen to do something they don't like (or don't understand), then they sure have their way of making you firmly aware of it. And not in the nicest of ways either. :scrhd:
Humans... I guess will never understand them. :frantic:
Still, Dart Hatman bashing is a lot of fun and I sure miss a certain retired member who was very good at it.
The particular member you are referring to had quite a habit of bashing everyone, and sometimes in very tasteless and rude ways, but when I then gave him just a little taste of his own medicine back, he immediately requested his retirement, and he did not rescind that request within the 24-hour grace time we extended him.
My advice to people like that is that if you can't stand the heat, then you should stay away from the fire. What goes around comes around, and if you keep on insulting people "just for fun", then you should be willing and prepared to cash in when someone calls you out on your bovine excrement. And at his age ─ he's about 14 years older than I am ─ he should have known that already. In addition to that, he also spoke with a voice of authority about many things that he actually didn't have any idea about, but that he had learned from "trustworthy sources" ─ ahem! ─ like David Wilcock. :rolleyes:
One of the appeals of TOT for me has always been the way it provided refuge for ex-PA members and a place to vent their frustrations, even if it was unfair at times.
We do welcome refugees, from everywhere, if they are good people. You have so far been an exemplary member here, and so even if Bill Ryan does not think that you are a suitable member for Project Avalon, we over here at The One Truth do think you are a suitable member at our own campus. The One Truth is not Project Avalon, just like I am not my neighbor who lives in the same building as I do.
Every forum has its own identity, and its own rules, whether these forums are working together or not. That has always been the case, everywhere on the internet. It is therefore quite plausible for certain people to not belong at one forum, while they do perfectly belong at another one.
Another thing is that not only is there a difference between someone who was banned and someone who was retired, but there is also a difference between them as individuals, so that some members whose account was voluntarily retired will never be welcomed back here, while others who have been banned in the past ─ whether by myself or by one of my predecessors ─ could possibly be given a second chance, if only they are being honest with us. It all depends on the individual in question.
But what we don't like here are members who stab you in the back, who are belligerent, who are disruptive, or who are genuinely malevolent. And given that the forum is a private entity with partial public access, we reserve the right to deny access to certain individuals of whom we feel as a team that they would harm either the forum as an entity and/or individual members of our community. Bill Ryan maintains a similar attitude toward the members over at Project Avalon, but his criteria are somewhat different. We don't have to agree with him on that, nor do we have to argue with him over it, exactly because Project Avalon is Bill's domain, and The One Truth is ours.
Both Project Avalon and The One Truth are sovereign entities, and it is the respect for each other's rules that serves as one of the backbones of this new working relationship we have with Project Avalon. Bill respects our rules, and we respect his. ;)
Emil El Zapato
24th June 2019, 23:02
augggghhhhh! I burned that bridge because I never suspected this could happen. You am my buddy Aragorn...and now you will be having fun without me over at PA...I guess I should have had that prophetic dream. I did think Aianawa was being mistreated...But I can live with it...I have a sister that has written 2 books...I'm cool enough as it is... :)
Dreamtimer
24th June 2019, 23:05
When are you gonna write yours?
I feel like I should write a series of short stories.
But right now I'd rather stitch.
Emil El Zapato
24th June 2019, 23:07
I wish I had the talent, the patience, and/or anything else it takes to write... :)
Fred Steeves
24th June 2019, 23:09
Judging by the passive-aggressive refusal of some to thank my last couple of posts here on the thread whereas they otherwise would have, I find it crystal clear that some people here do still hold grudges against Bill Ryan in person or against Project Avalon in general. And what's even worse is that they then project their negative sentiments toward Bill Ryan upon me and declare me guilty by association.
Even more telling is how little faith these people have in myself, in spite of the fact that I have already proven my integrity to them time and time again for as long as they've known me. How much more evidence do they need that not everyone has a nefarious agenda? :hmm:
It's like I said earlier ─ even though I don't remember right now whom I said it to or where I said it ─ but people are very quick to forget the good things you've done, and then when you happen to do something they don't like (or don't understand), then they sure have their way of making you firmly aware of it. And not in the nicest of ways either. :scrhd:
Humans... I guess will never understand them. :frantic:
Aragorn, once again to the casual observer, it's going to look like you're lumping me into a category that I do not belong in. Especially in conjunction with this portion of your more recent post below
I have not responded to Fred's post higher up, because of several reasons. First of all, Fred and I have been discussing this matter further via private messages, and secondly, I felt that his last post on this thread here was so far off track that I couldn't bring myself to list all of the reasons why I didn't agree with him.
It's perfectly fine that we disagree on this particular matter, as I was perfectly fine with letting you have the above final word, but you never let on how cordial and mutually respectful our conversation was. I'm by no means implying that any of this is intentional, but coupling these two quotes together together can easily paint a landscape that is simply not there.
Let's stop this reading of the tea leaves through the Thank You button, shall we?
Again, it's the casual observer that can easily misconstrue this type of thing.
Emil El Zapato
24th June 2019, 23:44
I will have to seriously weigh out and reevaluate my participation any further here.
Gio, you're content postings are extremely good...allow Aragorn to see his own way and just keep going. I don't see Aragorn selling out anybody on this forum.
Aragorn
24th June 2019, 23:57
augggghhhhh! I burned that bridge because I never suspected this could happen. You am my buddy Aragorn...and now you will be having fun without me over at PA...I guess I should have had that prophetic dream. I did think Aianawa was being mistreated...But I can live with it...I have a sister that has written 2 books...I'm cool enough as it is... :)
I think everyone ─ well, that is to say, everyone outside of the mod room of The One Truth ─ seems to be misinterpreting this newest development in our relationship with Project Avalon. I have only returned to Project Avalon so as to be a liaison between our two forums, or actually three forums, because Eye-Rise is our sister forum and perhaps this may benefit Eye-Rise as well. I'm not over at Project Avalon to have fun, or to be away from The One Truth, or to betray our members' deepest and darkest secrets to Bill Ryan.
I am there because apologies have been offered and accepted, and because my presence at Project Avalon will eventually benefit the so-called alternative community at large. The One Truth is not going to merge with Project Avalon ─ we haven't even merged with Eye-Rise, and there are no plans for that either ─ and we have not sold our souls to Bill Ryan.
I do read some of the threads over there, but only those threads that I find of immediate interest, and I have so far made three posts over there since my return, all of a technical nature ─ two with regard to a change to the forum that Bill wants to introduce so that the politically polarizing stuff becomes an opt-in choice, so that those who do not want to have anything to do with politics or the QAnon nonsense will no longer have to see that junk being posted if they don't want to, and one other post on a thread regarding the surveillance/tracking features that Google put in the Chrome browser. And I've replied to a couple of PMs as well.
I may and probably will post on other threads in the future, but it would never be the same as my activity over here at The One Truth. Furthermore, The One Truth is my home, and Project Avalon's traffic is going way too fast for me. It, and the circumference of the forum, are both driving me dizzy, and I mean that.
My brain can't process all of the information, because I am the sole administrator here, I am one of the administrators at Eye-Rise, I am a member at the Manjaro GNU/Linux forum ─ where I have recently (and automatically) been granted limited moderation abilities because of the frequency by which I visit the forum and help out ─ and I am also regularly visiting the PCLinuxOS forum, where I am also a member and where I also help people with technical issues (if I can). And now there's Project Avalon on top of that, and in between, I still have several Usenet discussion groups to read and occasionally post to. It's a goddamn daytime job, and I'm doing it all without being paid for it. I am doing it because I want to help people with their problems.
Lastly, it is perfectly fine if you guys still want to hold a grudge against Project Avalon and/or against Bill Ryan himself over things that happened a long time ago, because you are free to think and feel what you want to feel and think. Such is your prerogative, and I understand that some people need more time to process their pain and/or grief. It is perfectly fine! But then at least have the courtesy ─ and I'm not talking to you specifically now, NotAPretender, but to the knee-jerking passive-aggressive members here ─ to not judge me over things you do not understand or do not agree with because of your unprocessed grudge against Bill or his forum. Because declaring someone guilty by association is wrong.
I really don't think I would have anything left to prove anymore on account of my integrity, my sincerity, and my staying true to my word, so if you guys can't trust me now after all of these years, then you never will, and then there's no point in all of this passive-aggressive behavior, let alone talking behind my back and telling people I've sold out to Bill Ryan. Because that is not what's going on here, and for the record, Malc has given me his full support.
And that's because Malc does trust me unconditionally. For chrissakes, I have the passwords to the cPanel ─ which includes access to the server's email inbox ─ and to the Admin Control Panel, as well as to Malc's support account over at vBulletin. Do you think Malc would have given any of those passwords to me if there were even a remote chance that I would be abusing his trust? No, of course not, because Malc is no fool. And he too was once banned by Bill Ryan, but Malc is a bigger man than you naysayers, and he has already long been willing to bury all hatchets.
When I reached out to Eye-Rise in order to help Kathy, after all of the invective and false allegations from Ria and Breeze/Realeyes regarding that Malc would have been hacking their server, Malc gave me his full blessing. And now that the Shanolytes™ (© Sammy) have gone, Eye-Rise is our sister forum. And all staff members of The One Truth have been kept in the loop regarding my email exchanges with Bill Ryan ─ just as Bill himself always copies in his staff members whenever he communicates as the founder of his forum ─ and they all agree with my decision to accept Bill's offer. They trust me, and they've been trusting me for now well over four years.
So go ahead and wallow in your grudges against Bill Ryan and Project Avalon if you must, because that's between you and Bill, but don't make me part of your problem, and don't hate me for simply getting along with Bill now and maintaining a respectful relationship with him, his staff, and the members of his forum. Your frustrations over having been banned from Project Avalon are your own. You are not me and I am not you.
Ahh, the supposedly enlightened members of the so-called alternative community... :rolleyes: Have you learned nothing in all this time? :fpalm:
</rant>
Aragorn
25th June 2019, 00:09
It's perfectly fine that we disagree on this particular matter, as I was perfectly fine with letting you have the above final word, but you never let on how cordial and mutually respectful our conversation was.[...]
Indeed, it didn't occur to me to address that, Fred, and I apologize. I took it for granted that everyone here would have understood as much. Yes of course, our exchanges have been cordial, because we are friends and we are civilized people, even when we do not agree. :smile2:
Fred Steeves
25th June 2019, 01:29
Indeed, it didn't occur to me to address that, Fred, and I apologize. I took it for granted that everyone here would have understood as much. Yes of course, our exchanges have been cordial, because we are friends and we are civilized people, even when we do not agree. :smile2:
:chrs:
Aianawa
25th June 2019, 02:48
When does BPB or just Bill, arrive here, you know, registered yet ?.
Lol wee chuckle, from memory BPB was activated and banning forever ensued because I put a TOT link in my post on my thread there, so now that holding hands n singing has begun and some apologies given, am assuming Bill will be joining us here soon.
Gio, you're content postings are extremely good...allow Aragorn to see his own way and just keep going. I don't see Aragorn selling out anybody on this forum.
Let me translate ...
Congratulations !
To Aragorn (Means just that).
While all this comes as a momentary shock (but not a total surprise to me) ...
When first reading Aragorn's post earlier today, i really was surprised, but had
suspected for a while ... That he had seemed to be hinting around to this
(attitude change) in his posting for quite awhile now ...
Not having anything to do with any of this forum (front and back room) intrigue ...
None of this 'alternative forum drama' really means anything to me in the bigger
scheme of things ... I consider myself a free agent (spiritually) on these platforms;
I hold no allegiance to any entities or creeds.
I will have to seriously weigh out and reevaluate my participation any further here.
This thread has become too heavy for me, and i chose to no longer participate on it.
Note, i will continue to do what I've always have - To inform and entertain myself
and others with my post sharing (s) of fresh and interesting internet findings.
Aianawa
25th June 2019, 06:13
Bravo Gio
Your feelings on Bill's first post or thread ?
Chris
25th June 2019, 08:36
When does BPB or just Bill, arrive here, you know, registered yet ?.
Lol wee chuckle, from memory BPB was activated and banning forever ensued because I put a TOT link in my post on my thread there, so now that holding hands n singing has begun and some apologies given, am assuming Bill will be joining us here soon.
Aianawa, I don't think he will.
If I understood correctly, Aragorn's PA account was reinstated, but that's as far as it goes. I think it would be really weird if BR registered here and started posting, not least for him. I'm sure he wouldn't want to do that, given how many people on this forum would be hostile to him.
Aianawa
25th June 2019, 08:50
Well, in these times the exstoidinary lol n miracles abound, many so far so though maybe a surprise if happened, invaluable imo karma points aveilable
Aragorn
25th June 2019, 11:59
When does BPB or just Bill, arrive here, you know, registered yet ?.
As others have said, Vern, I don't think Bill would sign up here, given how many people here are hostile to him. There are loads of older posts all over the forum ─ not in the least also from myself, and I shamefully plead guilty as charged ─ that were full of invective toward (and mockery of) Bill. If it had been the other way around and there had been such posts about me over at Project Avalon, then I myself would definitely have reconsidered my return there. :hmm:
That said, some of Bill's moderators (and former moderators) are members here, and we know that. This is not an allegation of spying on account of Project Avalon, but we do know this, because we know those people, and they did not join up here in order to spy on us, but to exchange ideas with us without having to wear a moderator hat. And at the same time, apart from myself now, Elen, Wind and Kathy are also and have for long already been regular members over at Project Avalon ─ also not with the intent of spying, but because of the material being posted there. Let's not forget why all of us have entered this so-called alternative community in the first place, i.e. we were all looking for information.
Lastly, if Bill were to want to join up here after all, then the door for that is now open. But considering the negative sentiments of many here toward Bill, I can already foresee that this would seriously disrupt the peace here in our little Shire. So it would probably be wisest for Bill not to sign up here, even though he is now officially welcome to do so.
Just goes to show how things can get very complicated even if everyone has the best of intentions. :hmm:
Lol wee chuckle, from memory BPB was activated and banning forever ensued because I put a TOT link in my post on my thread there, so now that holding hands n singing has begun and some apologies given, am assuming Bill will be joining us here soon.
Was that the real reason why you were banned from Project Avalon? :confused: Because I was under the impression that Bill simply couldn't cope with your, um, unusual posting style and your equally unusual habit of deliberately altering the spelling of words.
We understand why you do that, because we know you by now. But Bill didn't know you, and he has put up a list with certain requirements for people to qualify as Project Avalon members ─ clarity in communication being one of them. I understand him in that, because he regards Project Avalon as more than just a forum. For Bill, Project Avalon is itself one big, searchable library, and so he wants the information in that library to be easily retrievable and comprehensible. And if even we over here who've known you for many years now still have difficulty understanding your Aianawese at times, then it's only logical that Bill, who doesn't know you at all, would find your information incomprehensible, and therefore, not eligible for being part of the stuff posted at Project Avalon.
Lastly ─ and I am saying this amicably ─ you cannot say that we hadn't warned you, Bro. We all knew in advance that your membership at Project Avalon was only going to be a matter of borrowed time, because you're just not the type of person who belongs there. You're a Hobbit, and Hobbitses lives in the Shire, Preciousss, where the Orcses and Trollses cannot find you. ;)
Emil El Zapato
26th June 2019, 00:59
Well, if Trump signs up here as much as I hate to admit it, I would probably treat him with respect...unless, of course, he signed up as Turiya...in that event it would be too late.
Aragorn
26th June 2019, 12:56
Well, if Trump signs up here as much as I hate to admit it, I would probably treat him with respect...unless, of course, he signed up as Turiya...in that event it would be too late.
Donald Trump will never be allowed membership of The One Truth. :p
Aianawa
27th June 2019, 00:09
With all the Truth presently coming out > https://tatoott1009.com/2019/06/25/insider-blows-whistle-exec-reveals-google-plan-to-prevent-trump-situation-in-2020-on-hidden-cam/?fbclid=IwAR1p5F8S9BS6vKQBSNELAYT69JmEdzUqeV_q0FJw aT-1XgUPVXSDrpabuhI < Hang your hat where ?.
As most here know, imo a macro micro for all, us won at least, is in e/affect, three stars allighning which is presently happening ( Kathy, Bill n Malc ) will be in one moment, manies micro but much manies macro.
Dear Reader
27th June 2019, 06:04
It's all gone a bit love 'n light over there. Don't get me wrong, love 'n light is good, yes, but to keep tings healthy 'n all, you need a bit of cut 'n thrust, and I feel that a lot of the cut 'n thrust participants have now left the building.
I get the feeling that behind the scenes, over 't yonder, there's a lot of touchy-feelies saying, "yay". Yay, yep. The potency has been diluted yet further. there'll be a dead-cat bounce, fo sho, but the settlement will be well below the bar that was.
And, Billy seems to be getting a lot of credit for, "putting the train back on the tracks", when in reality, he did f**k all until it grew and grew and grew and grew into one big sh!t show that couldn't be ignored any more.
And, have y'all checked out the pictures from Laughlin? Tell me, does anyone else's alarm start ringing looking at some of those pics? Tell me I'm right if I've seen what Ive seen, you'll know that I'm right if you know what I mean.
I trust OUR membership here to see things AS-THEY-ARE :)
Dreamtimer
27th June 2019, 12:15
...
And, have y'all checked out the pictures from Laughlin? Tell me, does anyone else's alarm start ringing looking at some of those pics? Tell me I'm right if I've seen what Ive seen, you'll know that I'm right if you know what I mean.
Thread? I don't see the name on recent posts, threads. Not on the list anyway. (I can't search members)
Dear Reader
27th June 2019, 12:24
They're on a thread in the members-only section of Avalonia.
Dreamtimer
27th June 2019, 17:53
Your thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102011-Prophecy-9-11-and-the-end-of-the-artificial-timeline.&p=1300003&viewfull=1#post1300003) got bumped, Aianawa.
Your thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102011-Prophecy-9-11-and-the-end-of-the-artificial-timeline.&p=1300003&viewfull=1#post1300003) got bumped, Aianawa.
I'll second that ...
Operating on Bill's pain body ...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/7a/95/527a9555e948bb40fc03110d68041c01.jpg
Bill Ryan's personal Question-and-Answer thread. Pile it on. :) (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?104824-Bill-Ryan-s-personal-Question-and-Answer-thread.-Pile-it-on.--&p=1256254&viewfull=1#post1256254)
Question: How come you never take off your hat (s) head coverings in public - Even at the dinner table?
There is one Project Camelot video in which he's interviewing a whistleblower ─ now deceased ─ without wearing his hat. It's an old video from the early beginnings of Project Camelot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js1QMYWg54s
Yes, Bill seems to be almost mesmerized (looking at the whistle-blowers hat) ...
Perhaps this is where his skull hat fetus all began ...
And i'm now wondering what became of the deceased Mr X hat ????
Is it The One Hat?
:hiding:
Different color. :)
Not necessarily ...
Wearing his head sweating leather hat (continuously over the years) ...
I'd say it could be ... After all i met and spent time with Mr Hat in 2012 ...
P.S. Bill did wear his hat at dinner and everywhere while 'Up at the Ranch'
With one exception - while sky watching (during the evening dim light).
Aragorn
27th June 2019, 18:35
https://jandeane81.com/images/misc/Double_Facepalm.jpeg
Yeah it's tough love defending your new buddy ...
Get use to it.
Aragorn
27th June 2019, 18:41
Yeah it's tough love defending your new buddy ...
Get use to it.
It would have been the wiser and more tactful thing to do to drop me a private message regarding your concerns than to try publicly shaming both myself and this new relationship between The One Truth and Project Avalon, Gio.
You are disappointing me. I had expected greater maturity from you.
You are disappointing me. I had expected greater maturity from you.
And i could say the same thing about you.
After all it was you who publicly dropped this bombshell here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/12071-Bills-Pain-Body-Thread-All-Welcome?p=842011686&viewfull=1#post842011686) first ...
At least Bill keeps his forum member/moderator announcement news on the member only thread at PA2.
Aragorn
27th June 2019, 19:07
You are disappointing me. I had expected greater maturity from you.And i could say the same thing about you.
Sure... Except that you would be wrong. :getcoat:
Dear Reader
27th June 2019, 19:27
Ah come on peeps....... Let's not light the touch-paper eh.
I feel both sides of this situation. Giovanni, I'm all in in what you have expressed. It's gotta be a concern for former members of Avalonia who now reside here, especially if theres been ruff 'n tumble with Cat in the Hat. Aragorn, surely you must understand this? It almost, almost feels like a slight betrayal.
But, I understand 100% where Aragorn's perspective now is. Strength through unity. What hope is there for us in the Macro if we all can't learn to get along? Forgiving but not forgetting. I'm sure that Aragorn has the maturity to keep pleasure (Avalonia) and business (ToT) in their respective corners.
I'm just concerned that somewhere along this road, somewhere, and someday, that favours may be asked.
That is all.
I always love it when Avalon members come here and post in disguise ...
The hypocrisies of this forum community is boundless ...
Yeah were all in this together ... Not!
Aragorn
27th June 2019, 20:01
Ah come on peeps....... Let's not light the touch-paper eh.
I feel both sides of this situation. Giovanni, I'm all in in what you have expressed. It's gotta be a concern for former members of Avalonia who now reside here, especially if theres been ruff 'n tumble with Cat in the Hat. Aragorn, surely you must understand this? It almost, almost feels like a slight betrayal.
But, I understand 100% where Aragorn's perspective now is. Strength through unity. What hope is there for us in the Macro if we all can't learn to get along? Forgiving but not forgetting. I'm sure that Aragorn has the maturity to keep pleasure (Avalonia) and business (ToT) in their respective corners.
I'm just concerned that somewhere along this road, somewhere, and someday, that favours may be asked.
That is all.
It is bizarre that you would think I equate Project Avalon with pleasure, and The One Truth with business. The One Truth is my home, and Project Avalon is merely a community I'm reaching out to, for the greater good of the alternative community at large. I am an emissary over there, not their lackey ─ as what some people are shamelessly accusing me of.
If Bill needs a favor from me, then I will be happy to comply ─ and I already have, because the new thread ignore system they're currently testing over there is an idea that yours truly brought to their table, and I even led them straight to the vBulletin plugin that does that. But I will only be doing Bill favors insofar as he would not require me to go in against my very strongly held personal ethics and the very principles of The One Truth. I am counting on Bill to respect that. After all, what would his response be if I were to ask him to do something that went in against his own principles?
Mutual respect is the key, and at least I am being the change I wish to see in the world. I stand fast in my integrity, which I have already been proving over and over again since I became a member here, let alone a staff member, let alone the administrator ─ which itself is coming up on its fourth birthday in August 2019, if I'm still alive by then.
If people want to question my integrity, my honor, my loyalty, or any combination thereof, then shame on them for projecting their own depravation upon me. But then again, presuming an innocent man guilty without evidence has always been so popular among this so-called alternative community, hasn't it?
"Yesss, lets us gossip, Preciousss ─ lets us hates them. We needs more drama. It entertains us."
Dumpster Diver
27th June 2019, 20:17
Frankly, I think The Hatman is old news...
...his psyop worked, Wilcock and the Blue Chicken krew are in retreat and major parts of the “alt-world” folks are in knife fights with each other.
ALL HAIL THE DARK PRINCE!
...mostly done remotely, by cracky...
...I can appreciate a well plotted and executed operation.
Dear Reader
27th June 2019, 20:24
Heh.
Quality.
Absolutely priceless.
I always love it when Avalon members come here and post in disguise ...
The hypocrisies of this forum community is boundless ...
Yeah were all in this together ... Not!
Why do you love it so? And What does it mean? (to you).
Heh.
Quality.
Absolutely priceless.
Why do you love it so? And What does it mean? (to you).
Tell me your Avalon (name) and i will tell you.
i will share this here ...
Previewing the new multi/forum member guillotine ...
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/b0/ad/41/b0ad414ec5ddbd84996c2e4746878491.jpg
Chris
27th June 2019, 20:34
Well.
I'm a relatively new member here and got kicked out of PA rather unceremoniously. Or perhaps it was ceremoniously, with Dart Hatman dancing around a burning wicker man. Either way, this is what I think about the whole affair:
- Aragorn is a private citizen and a member on some other forums as well. One of them happens to be PA. Wind, who is a moderator here, is also a longstanding PA member. There are a number of other people who are members on both forums. It would not be nice of us if we held that against them. People should have the right to be members on whichever forum they like, it is not fair to hold TOT staff to other standards in that regard.
- I am indeed uneasy that perhaps the two forums will get too close and it will become difficult to criticise the goings on in Mordor, in our little Shire. People do enjoy a bit of clannishness and like to Slag Off the other team. I think people might feel pressure to self-censor a bit and try not to be too hard on the other team. Perhaps further reassurances are needed that they don't need to hold back.
- With my conspiracy hat on, I can see how some people will see these developments as infiltration or betrayal. There was a bit of that thrown around when I joined this forum and some people became rather paranoid about it. I believe someone was even banned as a result of his obsession with my supposed usurping of TOT. There is plenty of that sort of conspiratorial thinking going around on both forums and in the alternative community as a whole. Staff on both forums will have a hell of a time convincing some members that this isn't a result of some Grand conspiracy.
Chris
27th June 2019, 20:41
Frankly, I think The Hatman is old news...
...his psyop worked, Wilcock and the Blue Chicken krew are in retreat and major parts of the “alt-world” folks are in knife fights with each other.
ALL HAIL THE DARK PRINCE!
...mostly done remotely, by cracky...
...I can appreciate a well plotted and executed operation.
What ?!?
You back?
Man, I missed you. I hope you'll stick around for a while.
:hug:
Wind
27th June 2019, 20:50
Enjoying the pot stirring here?
https://media1.tenor.com/images/f607794c19df2cd5db28dc8c189c02da/tenor.gif?itemid=11568977
Aianawa
27th June 2019, 21:02
Looks like it be heading to out of site out of mind place, over there, lol. Bill made that an xlent thread imo
Your thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102011-Prophecy-9-11-and-the-end-of-the-artificial-timeline.&p=1300003&viewfull=1#post1300003) got bumped, Aianawa.
Aragorn
27th June 2019, 21:24
[...]
Aragorn is a private citizen and a member on some other forums as well. One of them happens to be PA. [...]
That is correct. And this is the list of forums I am at ─ with the links, so you can check them out for yourself and see what I've been up to.
The One Truth ─ doesn't need any link, does it? <sour grin>
Our sister forum, Eye-Rise (http://eye-rise.com/forum/forum.php), run by Kathy.
The Manjaro forum (https://forum.manjaro.org/). Manjaro is a GNU/Linux distribution, and it is the distro I am currently using (and will probably continue to be using from here on, because in my 20+ years of exclusively running GNU/Linux on my computers, I've never come across a distribution that was so well polished as Manjaro :)).
The PCLinuxOS forum (https://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php). PCLinuxOS is the GNU/Linux distribution I was using for a couple of years before switching to Manjaro late in April 2019, when I bought this computer here. I'm not very active there anymore, but I do still check in a couple of times a day to see if there's anything I can help out with.
Project Avalon (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/forum.php), where my account was deactivated on the 18th of March 2015 over the Simon Parkes controversy, and reactivated again on the 23rd of June 2019.
Through some automated mechanism over at the Manjaro forum ─ they use an entirely different forum engine to what we have here ─ members who visit every day for a certain duration and who help out a lot are automatically granted limited moderation abilities, i.e. they can edit a post, they can delete a post, and they can move a thread to a different forum category if need be.
I have been very active there ever since I joined up, which I did in itself because I had built a certain software package that wasn't in the Manjaro repositories into a readily installable Manjaro package, and I wanted to know where I could offer it for download. And as of about one week ago, to my surprise ─ because I wasn't really aware of that mechanism ─ my activity on the forum triggered my "promotion" with these partial moderation abilities. I have so far only used them once, to mark a post as being the solution to a problem that the original poster of the thread was having. This adds the post with the solution to the opening post of the thread, so that newbies can more quickly find the solution if they are having the same problem as the original poster ─ and duplicate problems are very common there.
Apart from all of the above, I am also still monitoring and posting in several GNU/Linux- and UNIX-related discussion groups on Usenet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup). This is not a web-based medium, but instead you use a Usenet client application, and it has the look & feel of email, except that all messages are public and are stored on a distributed network of NNTP servers. I'm not going to get into the technical details, but if you want to know more about that, then the Wikipedia page will provide more information.
Usenet is also not all about GNU/Linux, because there are discussion groups about just about any conceivable topic, including groups about UFOs, conspiracies, politics, and so on, but those groups are all too often being frequented by people with mental illnesses and/or spammers.
With my conspiracy hat on, I can see how some people will see these developments as infiltration or betrayal. There was a bit of that thrown around when I joined this forum and some people became rather paranoid about it. I believe someone was even banned as a result of his obsession with my supposed usurping of TOT.
Yes, he was. He was posting as gavin here, and he is known over at Project Avalon as "what is a name?". However, he was not exclusively banned because of his obsession with you. The main reason why he was banned was that he was posting lies about us over at Project Avalon, first claiming that we had deleted a post of his that was not deleted and that was still clearly visible, and then claiming that we had deleted an entire thread of his that he never posted.
That is why he was banned, although I can imagine that we would eventually have taken administrative measures against him as well if he had continued with his obsessive behavior over here regarding your past activity at Project Avalon ─ which he didn't, because he stopped coming around and he chose to return to Project Avalon in order to lie about us instead.
Aianawa
27th June 2019, 21:27
FRom Papa site n 9/11 thread >
Re: Prophecy, 9-11 and the end of the artificial timeline.
Quote Posted by Vernaianawa (here)
The reason this thread started was due to connecting with Shaberon [ ..]
While having no desire to be in the said silly season membership, http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...e-Silly-Season , i have not been in the 98% for twenty years but i went baa before that.
I think Bro, you and I should share a Fosters some time soon or maybe a Steinlager...
WE can share one now Bob
Heh.
Quality.
Absolutely priceless.
I always love it when Avalon members come here and post in disguise ...
The hypocrisies of this forum community is boundless ...
Yeah were all in this together ... Not!
Why do you love it so? And What does it mean? (to you).
Just to note ...
The Reader and I are privately in accord.
Fred Steeves
27th June 2019, 21:58
I don't really have a lot to add here. I've already said my peace about what I think of Aragorn's endeavor (with Bill in particular), any more would be beating a dead horse, but I feel the need to chime in here in that I think this man deserves respect REGARDLESS, of opposing opinions. To me it's like the U.S. 1st Amendment; I may THOROUGHLY disagree with what someone is saying, but I will ALWAYS defend their right to say it.
He's a good man, I trust he has honorable intentions (and I don't say things like that lightly!), and he's doing what he feels he has to do. I respect that, period.
Has anyone else here ever been compelled to do something that you really felt you had to do? No matter what some others may think about it? I have. I'm sure you have too.
Besides, is the problem here with Bill Ryan, or The Project membership at large? Let's not get the two confused here. I can think of some very special people who roam the halls over there.
Dumpster Diver
27th June 2019, 23:47
What ?!?
You back?
Man, I missed you. I hope you'll stick around for a while.
:hug:
Thanks...
...yeah, I figgered Geo is back, Aragorn is kissy-face with The Hatman, over six months have gone by since my ”Spidy-tingle”...so why not?
Enjoying the pot stirring here?
https://media1.tenor.com/images/f607794c19df2cd5db28dc8c189c02da/tenor.gif?itemid=11568977
...yup, missed it, I have to admit.
Emil El Zapato
28th June 2019, 00:06
Frankly, I think The Hatman is old news...
...his psyop worked, Wilcock and the Blue Chicken krew are in retreat and major parts of the “alt-world” folks are in knife fights with each other.
ALL HAIL THE DARK PRINCE!
...mostly done remotely, by cracky...
...I can appreciate a well plotted and executed operation.
DD, you're back...Long time no see (the other side) ... :)
Aragorn
28th June 2019, 00:08
Thanks...
...yeah, I figgered Geo is back, Aragorn is kissy-face with The Hatman, over six months have gone by since my ”Spidy-tingle”...so why not?
Still the bull in the china shop, taking pleasure in rudeness and the embarrassment of whoever you can embarrass, I see... :fpalm:
Just remember that what goes around comes around, and if you can't stand the heat ─ like the last time, when you ran off with your tail between your legs right after I gave you a taste of your own medicine ─ then you should stay away from the fire. I hope we're clear on that.
I'm a very patient and tolerant man, but even my patience has its limits. There has been way too much bovine excrement here in the last couple of months, and as has become clear in these last five days, the sewer drain still appears to be leaking, so my patience is actually wearing very thin right now.
You asked me to reactivate your account earlier tonight, and right away you already feel the need to embarrass me. Two posts since your return, and the average IQ here has already dropped by 30 points. Had this been Project Avalon ─ and be grateful that it isn't ─ then you would already have been kicked out the door again from your first post on.
Thou hast been warned.
Fred Steeves
28th June 2019, 00:20
Besides, is the problem here with Bill Ryan, or The Project membership at large? Let's not get the two confused here. I can think of some very special people who roam the halls over there.
And now upon further reflection, there are so many nuances to this situation.
To name just one:
- I feel the need to quantify part of my above statement there: In my view there is never, ever a problem in at least, in talking to someone who is considered "enemy". I do not think any harm can ever come of that. I mean FFS man, if it somehow for whatever reason worked out that it were somehow presentable for me and Bill to talk about whatever mutual problem of course, I would talk to him. Hell I'll talk to anybody friend or foe if some talking is required for mutual benefit. Or just to keep the peace. Whatever.
Where we drift apart is in the buddy buddy thing, and in the assumption of being a spokesman for an entire community while doing so.
I hope this post maybe narrows the parameters of what our perception, understanding, (and our disagreements!) on this event really are.
I think this is important. For serious thinkers anyway.
Aianawa
28th June 2019, 01:48
Aragorn deactivated 18 th March 2015, same day I arrived here, we share interesting timelines lol.
Aragorn
28th June 2019, 11:59
Aragorn deactivated 18 th March 2015, same day I arrived here, we share interesting timelines lol.
I myself joined up at The One Truth on the 17th of March 2015 ─ one day before you. :)
Dumpster Diver
29th June 2019, 18:13
Still the bull in the china shop, taking pleasure in rudeness and the embarrassment of whoever you can embarrass, I see... :fpalm:
Just remember that what goes around comes around, and if you can't stand the heat ─ like the last time, when you ran off with your tail between your legs right after I gave you a taste of your own medicine ─ then you should stay away from the fire. I hope we're clear on that.
I'm a very patient and tolerant man, but even my patience has its limits. There has been way too much bovine excrement here in the last couple of months, and as has become clear in these last five days, the sewer drain still appears to be leaking, so my patience is actually wearing very thin right now.
You asked me to reactivate your account earlier tonight, and right away you already feel the need to embarrass me. Two posts since your return, and the average IQ here has already dropped by 30 points. Had this been Project Avalon ─ and b:love:e grateful that it isn't ─ then you would already have been kicked out the door again from your first post on.
Thou hast been warned.
...umm, you can flatter yourself that “you ran me off” if you want but actually, I got a “sense” of danger and shut down my activity everywhere for the last 6-8 months. It was a “numbers” thing. BTW, I’m ok with your rapprochement with Bill, and I’m ok with Bill and Avalon too. Frankly, like you, I’m a member of Avalon also as I find it full of a lot of info and was just talking “smack” for here for fun as I had found your past caustic comments towards Bill had not been mitigated in any way.
But, per your request, I will “dial it down” as info gathering is the overwhelming priority now.
Kisses and hugs....:love:
Aragorn
29th June 2019, 19:08
[...] Frankly, like you, I’m a member of Avalon also as I find it full of a lot of info and was just talking “smack” for here for fun as I had found your past caustic comments towards Bill had not been mitigated in any way.
I'm not sure what you mean by "had not been mitigated in any way". :unsure:
I must own up to what I've said about Bill in the past ─ I don't want to sweep my mistakes under the rug, and I will always own up to them ─ but I've also apologized for that. It was puerile, and it was all too easy to allow myself to get dragged in with the Bill-bashing, given how many people here ─ most of whom haven't been coming around anymore in a long time ─ were hostile to Bill and his forum. I have also offered Bill himself my apology, and he in turn has apologized for having banned me over the Simon Parkes affair.
People make mistakes, and my ban from Project Avalon was now over four years ago. That's a very long time, and especially when you connect to the forum every day and spend most of that day logged in here ─ even when I'm not at my computer for a few hours when I'm running an errand.
So much information passes before your eyes, and there has of course also been a lot of traffic back and forth through the grapevine. So you sign up here with a feeling of resentment toward Project Avalon because you were banned by Bill Ryan, and you see a wave that you can surf in order to vent your own frustration, and off you go. You get carried away, and people start feeding into your resentment with their own stories of how they got banned from Project Avalon, or their own complaints about Bill and his moderators, and so on.
But somewhere along the line, after all the years, you then wake up to the truth, and you realize how foolish you've been behaving. For myself, that moment came when I had to contact Bill via email the very first time since my excommunication from Project Avalon, namely when a mentally ill person who had been a member at both forums wrote an email to Bill with her idea that I could lure all Project Avalon members over to The One Truth, merge all of Project Avalon's information into our own database, and as such, create a second Project Avalon ─ one without Bill Ryan.
And the way she worded it, it sounded as if I was okay with all of that, and that my objections were purely technical. When she contacted me about her idea, I simply told her that such a thing is not technically feasible, just so as to get her to drop the subject. But instead, what she did was reformulate her thoughts into an email that she sent to Bill Ryan, with myself copied in. I was so shocked and embarrassed by the situation that I contacted Bill, unaware of the fact that he had already long ago opted to route all of that woman's emails into his trash/spam folder, given that she had been sending him thousands of such delusional emails already ─ several of which had myself and yet another staff member here copied in as well. And thus, Bill would never have gotten to see that ludicrous suggestion if I hadn't responded to it and explained to him that it has never been and will never be The One Truth's objective to assimilate Project Avalon ─ as if we are some forum equivalent of the Borg. :rolleyes:
That's what got the ball rolling. There I was, talking to Bill Ryan as if he was an old friend, and in his reply, Bill was nothing like what I had thought him to be while I was surfing that "Avalon refugee" wave. It prompted me to re-evaluate my view of Bill and of his forum, as well as of myself and my responsibility as the administrator of this forum here. It made me realize that Bill may have his flaws, but so does everyone else, and at the same time, Bill also has qualities, and I honestly believe that his intentions for Project Avalon have always been to create an active alternative community that could lay at the foundation for the cultural revolution that's needed in order to get humanity back on track and out from underneath the clutches of The Powers That Be™, whoever they are ─ there are many different factions, and they're not all working together either.
This objective of creating such a community was also Malc's vision, and what Malc wanted for The One Truth. Granted, this is a much smaller forum, and a much smaller community. But that has both advantages and disadvantages. In my personal opinion, the sheer circumference of Project Avalon is in and of itself becoming a hindrance to its objectives as a forum, because there is just too much information and there are too many conflicting views, with as a result that people start focusing only on a narrow subset of the information anymore, and that they seem to have become forgetful of why they ever joined up there in the first place ─ the difference between an audience and an actual community.
Alas, there are yet other factors involved in all of it, and those factors have been playing out here as well, because they extend way beyond forum life. One example is the very US-centric and bipartisan political polarization that we've been seeing here, and the shameless propagandists who seek to usurp or at the very least co-opt the alternative community into their political agendas. Another example is the general devolving of the human consciousness and the rise of the smartphone zombies ─ I've actually just written about all of this on a thread at Project Avalon, but it's a members-only thread (started by Bill himself), so it's pointless to post a link.
On the one hand, a part of me keeps on hoping for the best, but on the other hand, I don't see this ending well ─ "this" meaning "the way our society is changing". Because it is changing alright ─ it has always been a dynamic construct, even though the format of power structures and serfs has of course already been around for eons ─ but it's not changing for the better. An apple that's rotting is also change, but it's not a desirable change, and especially not if it's still in the fruit basket.
Humanity still has a long way to go, and especially now that we seem to be moving farther away from a positive resolution, rather than toward one. :hmm:
Emil El Zapato
29th June 2019, 19:20
Aragorn,
I promise this is the last time I'm going to do this to you...actually, take it as a compliment because my ADHD often keeps me from paying 'close' attention...but with that said....
Read 'em and weep! :)
"an active alternative community that could lie at the foundation for the cultural revolution"
Aragorn
29th June 2019, 19:28
Aragorn,
I promise this is the last time I'm going to do this to you...actually, take it as a compliment because my ADHD often keeps me from paying 'close' attention...but with that said....
Read 'em and weep! :)
"an active alternative community that could lie at the foundation for the cultural revolution"
Um, and your point is...? :hmm: :unsure:
Emil El Zapato
29th June 2019, 19:35
hehehe...time for a little research...for one of us... :)
Emil El Zapato
29th June 2019, 19:45
i dunno...
Grammar was never my specialty/speciality...but William Allen White was from my hometown and this is a quiz from the William Allen White School of Journalism:
INTERACTIVE QUIZ: LIE/LAY
"Lie" and "lay" are often confused, probably because the past tense of "lie" is "lay." But the two have different meanings.
"Lie" means "recline" or "be located" and is intransitive, which means it cannot take a direct object. "Lie" conjugates lie-lay-lain. If you can substitute a form of the verb "to be" (is, are, was, were, being) and the sentence still makes sense grammatically, you want "lie."
"Lay" means "put something down in a flat position" and is transitive, which means it takes a direct object. "Lay" conjugates lay-laid-laid. If you can substitute "put" for the verb and the sentence still makes sense grammatically, you want "lay."
Choose the correct word in the 10 sentences of this quiz. Click "start quiz" below to begin.
Anywho, it is still a funny choice of words to me...maybe I be meditating too much..
Aragorn
29th June 2019, 21:37
Aragorn,
I promise this is the last time I'm going to do this to you...actually, take it as a compliment because my ADHD often keeps me from paying 'close' attention...but with that said....
Read 'em and weep! :)
"an active alternative community that could lie at the foundation for the cultural revolution"Um, and your point is...? :hmm: :unsure:
i dunno...
Grammar was never my specialty/speciality...but William Allen White was from my hometown and this is a quiz from the William Allen White School of Journalism:
INTERACTIVE QUIZ: LIE/LAY
"Lie" and "lay" are often confused, probably because the past tense of "lie" is "lay." But the two have different meanings.
"Lie" means "recline" or "be located" and is intransitive, which means it cannot take a direct object. "Lie" conjugates lie-lay-lain. If you can substitute a form of the verb "to be" (is, are, was, were, being) and the sentence still makes sense grammatically, you want "lie."
"Lay" means "put something down in a flat position" and is transitive, which means it takes a direct object. "Lay" conjugates lay-laid-laid. If you can substitute "put" for the verb and the sentence still makes sense grammatically, you want "lay."
Choose the correct word in the 10 sentences of this quiz. Click "start quiz" below to begin.
Anywho, it is still a funny choice of words to me...maybe I be meditating too much..
I have corrected my grammatical error. So now my English is better than yours again. :p
Emil El Zapato
29th June 2019, 21:47
hoo hoo...you know I'm still snickering though... :)
Aragorn
29th June 2019, 21:49
hoo hoo...you know I'm still snickering though... :)
How's your Dutch? :sarcastic:
Emil El Zapato
29th June 2019, 21:57
a little better than my Spanish but not as good as my German...I been watching 'Dark' on Netflix lately...A Time Travel murder mystery produced in Germany...it's pretty cool.... :)
For example, I know how to pronounce 'Wouter' correctly... Truth is, I thought it would be 'Vouter' but after hilariously arguing with co-workers about how to correctly pronounce our Dutch software architect's name correctly we looked it up online...I would joke and say Vouter and before you know it everybody was saying it...It was simply funny as all get out.
Aragorn
29th June 2019, 22:12
a little better than my Spanish but not as good as my German...I been watching 'Dark' on Netflix lately...A Time Travel murder mystery produced in Germany...it's pretty cool.... :)
For example, I know how to pronounce 'Wouter' correctly... Truth is, I thought it would be 'Vouter' but after hilariously arguing with co-workers about how to correctly pronounce our Dutch software architect's name correctly we looked it up online...I would joke and say Vouter and before you know it everybody was saying it...It was simply funny as all get out.
Well, the Dutch proper ─ i.e. in the Netherlands ─ do often pronounce the "W" as a "V", like the Germans do, depending on whether it precedes an emphasized vowel or not. Likewise, they will pronounce a "V" proper as an "F" if it precedes an emphasized vowel, and they also use two distinct pronunciations for the "R" ─ a more muted form, like the Germans have, or a rolling form, like the Irish, also depending on where it comes in the word.
Flemish Dutch is different, though. It is much tighter and "drier". But that's because we've had the francophone domination here for a long time, so that Dutch proper never evolved beyond the level of highly localized dialects and regional pronunciations. For instance, the Flemish people in Brussels and the surrounding region pronounce the "R" the way the French do, while in the Flanders, we typically have a hard "R", like the Italians use.
Emil El Zapato
29th June 2019, 22:49
lost my post but thanks for the info...
Fred Steeves
30th June 2019, 00:02
And for the kiddies at home just getting their feet wet in "Forum 101", the last few exchanges are a perfect textbook example on how thread derailment occurs...
And for the kiddies at home just getting their feet wet in "Forum 101", the last few exchanges are a perfect textbook example on how thread derailment occurs...
Ahh... I think Fred after watching side-track dialog, the thread returns to center quickly enough.. U know while walking a path hiking we just know we want to go on a hike and smell the flowers and take in the sights.. And maybe a bunny wabbit will cross our path, or a bear and her babies.. And the dialog we chat about on the path diverts a tad.. or we may stop for lunch and talk about whatever, but soon enough if we are on the path we get back to and get going. Watching Tot over the years I have seen that type of travel happening.. I wouldn't sweat it..
Emil El Zapato
30th June 2019, 12:06
Great response Bob...said and done with much more aplomb than I'm capable of, but my heart is in the right place (sometimes).
On another thread someone mentioned libertarianism vs authoritarianism...I think both of those are subclasses of the same thing. The manifest difference lie/lay between liberalism and authoritarianism.
Emil El Zapato
30th June 2019, 12:23
Fred, Fred, Fred...this is just for you. I'm going to point out how the exchange between Aragorn and I was NOT an example of thread derailment:
1. To lie is the very foundation of the alternative forum.
2. Aragorn and I played out the dichotomy of 'internationalism' and US centric political domination which is central to Aragorn's feelings about the forums
3. To learn, knowing, ego, and perspective is fundamental to all threads.
thank you, thank you very much...Elvis is leaving the building.
Aragorn
30th June 2019, 12:32
[...] And maybe a bunny wabbit will cross our path, [...]
Funny you should say that, because we've just had a Silly Wabbit joining up here today. :p
Wind
30th June 2019, 12:40
Follow the white rabbit, Alice.
Daozen
1st July 2019, 11:36
I think many of us are experiencing a subtle kind of grief. I wonder if grief is too strong a word... maybe not. For years we collaborated and built a huge archive of wisdom, esoteric and healing information over at Avalon. The Avalon community has weathered many storms over the past decade, and it's a testament to the collective strength of the individuals there that the database of wisdom survives. And then we watch that database and community being over-run by people who post propaganda and illusion. This goes way back to Charles, Simon Parkes, the Pray Peace/Todd and Nora 'disclosure' and many others I forget to name right now. Q is the current op. Psy-op after psy-op.
Deep down we may be connected to the name and concept of Avalon in ways we cannot describe. "The Avalon mission". What does that mean? I can only speak for myself. Organic food, microfinance, new ways of living. While that information does exist on Avalon, it has become eclipsed by louder, more insistent voices who simply will not stop clamoring. Money is being donated. And now Q is trying to sell an Iran attack.
I do not accept any responses like "It's only one of 100,000 threads"... or "let it play out". It's not like I suddenly woke up and caused a load of problems one day. This had been brewing under the surface for years. I don't accept the moderator's claimed neutrality, not in the light of continued donations, which is a taboo subject on Avalon. And I know a lot of others don't either.
Why? Because "let it play out" tends to take a full two years in forum time. Two years of confusion and negativity that spills into many threads. This has been happening since 2009 or thereabouts. I was a member of the original forum, and I remember how dark the vibe was. People were terrified of the 'ground crew' messages, and were all about heading for the hills. Fast forward to 2019, the Avalon soul group has matured, but the same themes are recurring. A whistleblower of the month who draws everyone into a rancorous vortex. I think we can all see the inevitable time when the moderators don their gleaming white armor and ban all Q threads. The crowd will cheer. There will be a period of one month silence, then, another psy-op will be started up. IMO this cynical cycling of psy-ops will never end, though I would like to be proved wrong. By putting the community through these two year cycles, they are squandering the only resource humans really have: time and energy.
I am just passing through and expressing how I am feeling. I know a lot of Avalonians read this thread. So if I have been acting a little odd recently, it's because I saw good minds in my generation being distracted by delusion, lies and more lies. Now I'm chilling out and rebalancing, but I still have some things to get off my chest. I should probably put them on a blog, as others advised.
Sure, I lead an active offline life. I need to spend more time in nature as others advised. But the name Avalon, at least in this corner of the net, has become muddied, chaotic and confused. Maybe that was the intention from the start. How long can we give these forces the benefit of the doubt? Another 10 years? Life is short. I will go rebuild and regroup locally, but I won't spend any more energy in that unproductive, surreal whirlpool.
Aragorn
1st July 2019, 12:39
I think we can all see the inevitable time when the moderators don their gleaming white armor and ban all Q threads.
Actually, no... There is currently talk over at Project Avalon with regard to how the contentious QAnon (and other polarizing, US-centric party-political) material can be kept out of the public view, so that it won't harm the neutral and apolitical reputation of Project Avalon, while still allowing the material to exist, and allowing members to partake in discussions about said material if they want to.
My suggestion to Bill was to move such material into a members-only section, so that the web crawlers won't pick it up and so that it doesn't disfigure the forum's front page statistics because of the fanaticism involved with that material and the frequency at which it is being posted about, but as an an additional feature, the Project Avalon administrators are currently testing the same thread ignore system as we have here, so that members can opt out of the political stuff by simply ignoring those threads, should they wish so.
There do seem to be some compatibility problems with the thread ignore plugin, but technically, there shouldn't be, as the version of vBulletin we're running here at The One Truth is only one minor release up from theirs ─ we're running 4.2.1 while they're running 4.1.1. So it's still the same vBulletin generation and the API ("Application Programming Interface") should be the same across all vBulletin 4.x.x versions. However, Paul and Ilie have both customized much of the vBulletin code at Project Avalon, and I'm beginning to suspect that the compatibility issue might be rooted in those customizations.
And of course, both Ilie and Paul have already left Project Avalon in the meantime, so there's a bit of a problem there, because Hervé, Tommy and Bill won't know what exactly Ilie and Paul changed without being able to compare that to a completely fresh vanilla installation of vBulletin 4.1.1, but the 4.x.x generation is already no longer available by now ─ vBulletin is now only available as a 5.x.x release anymore.
Dreamtimer
1st July 2019, 12:48
It's stunning how such a thing can have so much draw, this Q phenomenon.
It does shed light on general fanaticism and religious attitudes.
Getting religious with politics is extremely dangerous.
Daozen
1st July 2019, 12:56
Taking Q off the front page would seem to be a step forward. They already have a section where they put channeled material, and another called Express Yourself. I believe both of them are not for public view (though I could be mistaken). I still think that Q material will eventually fizzle out (maybe it won't be banned dramatically). But after the Q material fades, it will have cost the forum 18-24 months of difficulty. So while I may not be 100% correct about the material being banned, it will eventually disappear. Q, along with the "Trump'll save us" delusion has cost the forum dearly, if only in terms of time. Time is a scarce commodity.
Anyway, I have got my feelings off my chest now regarding PA. Writing my post above has been an interesting part of the exit process. I may post a couple more things in this thread but I am in wind down mode right now.
Aragorn
1st July 2019, 14:07
Taking Q off the front page would seem to be a step forward. They already have a section where they put channeled material, and another called Express Yourself. I believe both of them are not for public view (though I could be mistaken). I still think that Q material will eventually fizzle out (maybe it won't be banned dramatically). But after the Q material fades, it will have cost the forum 18-24 months of difficulty. So while I may not be 100% correct about the material being banned, it will eventually disappear. Q, along with the "Trump'll save us" delusion has cost the forum dearly, if only in terms of time. Time is a scarce commodity.
True, but it's a learning process for the forums in general, and at the same time, also a heads-up warning, because ─ and I have already said this several times since back in 2017 ─ the US American "alt-right" has been infiltrating the "alternative community" with the intent of co-opting it for party-political purposes. And while we over here at The One Truth saw it coming and resisted it, Project Avalon did not see it coming, and was taken over by US-centric bigots and individuals who had been brainwashed.
The "alternative community" should rise above anything to do with political partisanship, as well as anything to do with US-centricity. We are supposed to be the Awake & Aware™, who would be able to see through all of that divisive nonsense. United we stand, divided we fall. And The Powers That Be™ have everything to gain from keeping us running back and forth between two apparently opposite but fake polarities, either of which only exists so as to rule over us, the commoners.
We have to stop dropping bombs and start building bridges. In spite of our differences, we're all on this world together, and unless we're going to start working together for the greater good, we're all doomed. And that's a fact. :hmm:
Chris
1st July 2019, 14:14
True, but it's a learning process for the forums in general, and at the same time, also a heads-up warning, because ─ and I have already said this several times since back in 2017 ─ the US American "alt-right" has been infiltrating the "alternative community" with the intent of co-opting it for party-political purposes. And while we over here at The One Truth saw it coming and resisted it, Project Avalon did not see it coming, and was taken over by US-centric bigots and individuals who had been brainwashed.
The "alternative community" should rise above anything to do with political partisanship, as well as anything to do with US-centricity. We are supposed to be the Awake & Aware™, who would be able to see through all of that divisive nonsense. United we stand, divided we fall. And The Powers That Be™ have everything to gain from keeping us running back and forth between two apparently opposite but fake polarities, either of which only exists so as to rule over us, the commoners.
We have to stop dropping bombs and start building bridges. In spite of our differences, we're all on this world together, and unless we're going to start working together for the greater good, we're all doomed. And that's a fact. :hmm:
I think the US-centricity of the alt-right is a convenient illusion European liberals comfort themselves with. Netanyahu and Orban were at it decades before this sort of nonsense showed up in the US and the UK, as was Putin, Berlusconi, and Sarkozy.
Dreamtimer
1st July 2019, 15:15
They aren't leaders of the world the way America is. Having the President green-light stuff is a Huge difference. Big League.
Aragorn
1st July 2019, 15:26
I think the US-centricity of the alt-right is a convenient illusion European liberals comfort themselves with.
Not when every discussion anywhere on the internet turns into a matter of internal US politics, Chris. We've seen it here, and they've seen it over at Project Avalon. And I'm also seeing it on Usenet and even on YouTube.
All courtesy of the indoctrination of US Americans ─ from the cradle onward ─ with the notion that the USA lay at the center of the universe, and that one must choose sides between the Repulsicans and the Dimmocrats, or else you are not a patriot and you will burn in hell.
Silly Wabbit
1st July 2019, 23:58
I always love it when Avalon members come here and post in disguise ...
The hypocrisies of this forum community is boundless ...
Yeah were all in this together ... Not!
Hello Giovonni,
My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"
And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...
This is me, and I am glad to meet you..
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?32267-Denise-Dizi
I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
Hello Giovonni,
My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"
And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...
This is me, and I am glad to meet you..
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?32267-Denise-Dizi
I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
Welcome Silly Wabbit ...
But do note your link does not work for us non active PA2 members ...
Is your new TOT ID the same as yours over at PA2?
And please by no means is this a fist fight as you suggest ...
Just having some fun with Mr Aragorn.
Again my issues are only with TOT members that need to hide
their Avalon ID's here when posting in regards to TOT or PA2.
PS ~ Please note i still have many friends over at Avalon ...
Noting i was an original member there PA1 Sept 9, 2008 ...
And member #45 ( March 16, 2010) at the current PA2 ...
I retired there Sept 2016 ... Eight years in total membership.
Let's just say - I am well versed in that PA's history ...
And know where most of the body's are buried.
But i do truly wish what's left of this community my very best !
giggle :)
Ah ... Denise-Dizi !
Why not use your PA avatar name here as well?
Chester
2nd July 2019, 03:17
And of course, both Ilie and Paul have already left Project Avalon in the meantime, so there's a bit of a problem there, because Hervé, Tommy and Bill won't know what exactly Ilie and Paul changed without being able to compare that to a completely fresh vanilla installation of vBulletin 4.1.1, but the 4.x.x generation is already no longer available by now ─ vBulletin is now only available as a 5.x.x release anymore.
This statement is significant. As time moves forward, to be stuck on 4.1.1 could become problematic. Especially if that prevents security fix implementations. It also means a feature freeze. Maybe they have the ability to do a full rollback. That would result in the loss of the customizations but at least then they can move forward with new releases when available.
It's stunning how such a thing can have so much draw, this Q phenomenon.
It does shed light on general fanaticism and religious attitudes.
Getting religious with politics is extremely dangerous.
Why am I more and more every day glad I don't have any clue about anything "Q"?
Daozen
2nd July 2019, 04:49
True, but it's a learning process for the forums in general, and at the same time, also a heads-up warning, because ─ and I have already said this several times since back in 2017 ─ the US American "alt-right" has been infiltrating the "alternative community" with the intent of co-opting it for party-political purposes. And while we over here at The One Truth saw it coming and resisted it, Project Avalon did not see it coming, and was taken over by US-centric bigots and individuals who had been brainwashed.
The "alternative community" should rise above anything to do with political partisanship, as well as anything to do with US-centricity. We are supposed to be the Awake & Aware™, who would be able to see through all of that divisive nonsense. United we stand, divided we fall. And The Powers That Be™ have everything to gain from keeping us running back and forth between two apparently opposite but fake polarities, either of which only exists so as to rule over us, the commoners.
We have to stop dropping bombs and start building bridges. In spite of our differences, we're all on this world together, and unless we're going to start working together for the greater good, we're all doomed. And that's a fact. :hmm:
I agree with most of what you say. It's a good idea to chill out, take a long term approach and regard it all as a learning process. I think your analysis is correct, but it generously ignores the amount of donations being given to keep this alt-right material in the limelight. It's not something I want to harp on about, as I have now got most things off my chest, but it's a key factor. Turiya donated, Chip donated... and that is one reason they are given so much leeway. You may not wish to comment on this as you are a member of PA, but I can. Discussion of donations is more or less taboo on Avalon. And while I agree co-operation is key, writers have many venues to choose between. Platforms that do not respect both free will and privacy will not do well in the future.
I understand being a board admin is not easy, there are many hard balancing acts to perform at once. Forums need to develop a balanced executive, judicial and legislative branch. Those terms are kind of over-the-top, but a balanced 3 branch approach might be fairer for everyone. Right now, you only have an executive branch in many forums, and this is why things can get stifling and top heavy. "Top heavy" meaning the executive is too powerful and unregulated. This is not a comment on one particular board. it happens all over the place. Reddit has come the closest to a balanced approach, but vbulliten seem to be providing some good tools. Vbulliten's 'thread ignore' feature is a good step forward. Facebook have a "total ignore" feature. Once you block someone, they disappear forever. This is one reason they became very popular, despite the surveillance aspect.
I'm interested in how forums govern themselves, as I think electronic discussion will probably be around for the next 1000 years.
I also wondered what unix/linux commands a conspiracy board sysadmin might run in the course of a month. I know a little of top, htop, ps ax, stat and ps aux... but not much else. Over the next two years I will teach myself some basic sysadmin. Some pointers might be useful, if you had time. I can easily google "basic sysadmin commands", but running a conspiracy board may a few specific difficulties that normal sysadmins might not encounter. Paul ran the server from his house, right? That is impressive, if I'm correct. It must take some real skill to keep a board like that running.
Hello Giovonni,
My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"
And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...
This is me, and I am glad to meet you..
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?32267-Denise-Dizi
I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
I love your mindset not so Silly Wabbit! Welcome to TOT...:group hug:
Chris
2nd July 2019, 09:07
I think somebody mentioned on this thread, but it seems their post was deleted, that PA employs scientologist methods of auditing on some members. Do we know that for a fact? Can anyone confirm that or is it just a rumour? I had a run-in with scientologists when I was looking for my very first job during college and they genuinely creep me out. If confirmed, it would be very disturbing information.
Fred Steeves
2nd July 2019, 10:55
Hello Giovonni,
My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"
And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...
This is me, and I am glad to meet you..
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?32267-Denise-Dizi
I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
Hi Denise,
I still lurk over at The Project having been gone since 2013, so it's kind of like saying hi to someone you watch on t.v., or listen to on the radio, in that I know you but you don't know me. Kind of weird eh?
Anyway nice to meet your acquaintance, and you should know straight off that problems with the parent site have to do with el capitan, and NOT, I repeat NOT, the general membership.
Well, most of them anyway. :chrs
I think somebody mentioned on this thread, but it seems their post was deleted, that PA employs scientologist methods of auditing on some members. Do we know that for a fact? Can anyone confirm that or is it just a rumour? I had a run-in with scientologists when I was looking for my very first job during college and they genuinely creep me out. If confirmed, it would be very disturbing information.
It *can* be a creepy experience. I lived most of my life in, or very near a coastal city called Clearwater in Florida, USA. In case you've never heard of it, it's the place that Hubbard literally used as his beach head for introducing Scientology in a physical location back in the mid 70's, as opposed to spreading it from their Flag Ships. It was almost like a slow motion invasion as they began to take over downtown
by buying up old landmarks, and using them as the new headquarters. The locals were like who the fuck ARE these people dressed in snappy uniforms, and walking around like damn robots.
Some of them are okay, but most are extremely creepy and very defensive in almost a military manner guarding their buildings, and interacting with "wogs". Now, the 70's were well before the infamous fracture and walk off with Captain Bill Robertson and such in the lead, splintering the religion into Free Zone and Ron's Org, so these are the very same people that BR loves to brag that are so much different than today's brand of Scientologist under Miscavige.
My personal view anyway, but I digress.
Bill is a very high up Scientologist, he eats breaths and shits the "religion". I can't exactly point to official Scientology ways of running the forum, other than side ally methods that are not readily noticeable. I think it's very subtle (usually!), even passive aggressive in nature. There is definately an angle to how he steers the Good Ship Avalon that we see the picture of so often.
When I first really began to notice this was back in early '13 when I was the first and only front door greeter at the time (before they were green), and along came Jiminii, whom I refer to as Super Scientologist Jiminii. Jim took that place by storm spreading the gospel of Scientology (directly against forum rules!), and Bill gave him free reign despite objections. Anyone else would have been banned almost immediately, but not this guy.
I was literally dumbfounded by the blatant favoritism and hypocrisy.
That's when I began to see the rotten underbelly there, and that in turn allowed me to start seeing more, which is why I resigned that position and was soon enough off the forum.
Anyway, hope that answers at least part of your question in a side winding sort of way.
Oh, and don't forget Admin Herve is a Scientologist as well.
Chris
2nd July 2019, 11:51
Hi Denise,
I still lurk over at The Project having been gone since 2013, so it's kind of like saying hi to someone you watch on t.v., or listen to on the radio, in that I know you but you don't know me. Kind of weird eh?
Anyway nice to meet your acquaintance, and you should know straight off that problems with the parent site have to do with el capitan, and NOT, I repeat NOT, the general membership.
Well, most of them anyway. :chrs
It *can* be a creepy experience. I lived most of my life in, or very near a city called Clearwater in Florida, USA. In case you've never heard of it, it's the place that Hubbard literally used as his beach head for introducing Scientology in a physical location back in the mid 70's, as opposed to spreading it from their Flag Ships. It was almost like a slow motion invasion as they began to take over downtown
by buying up old landmarks, and using them as the new headquarters. The locals were like who the fuck ARE these people dressed in snappy uniforms, and walking around like damn robots.
Some of them are okay, but most are extremely creepy and very defensive in almost a military manner guarding their buildings, and interacting with "wogs". Now, the 70's were well before the infamous fracture and walk off with Captain Bill Robertson and such in the lead, splintering the religion into Free Zone and Ron's Org, so these are the very same people that BR loves to brag that are so much different than today's brand of Scientologist under Miscavige.
My personal view anyway, but I digress.
Bill is a very high up Scientologist, he eats breaths and shits the "religion". I can't exactly point to official Scientology ways of running the forum, other than side ally methods that are not readily noticeable. I think it's very subtle (usually!), even passive aggressive in nature. There is definately an angle to how he steers the Good Ship Avalon that we see the picture of so often.
When I first really began to notice this was back in early '13 when I was the first and only front door greeter at the time, and along came Jiminii, who'm I refer to as Super Scientologist Jiminii. Jim took that place by storm spreading the gospel of Scientology (directly against forum rules!), and Bill gave him free reign despite objections. Anyone else would have been banned almost immediately, but not this guy.
That's when I began to see the rotten underbelly there, and that in turn allowed me to start seeing more, which is why I resigned that position and was soon enough off the forum.
Anyway, hope that answers at least part of your question in a side winding sort of way.
Thanks, that's useful info.
When I was 19 and still in college, I had to find a job to make some money. I had three interviews and was hired for all three jobs. Two of them were connected to scientology. They made me do an IQ test and a very intrusive personal questionnaire (I guess it may have been auditing). One of the jobs would have required me to start translating all of Ron Hubbard's work into Hungarian, even though they claimed to be a business consulting firm. I said no and accepted the one job offer that had nothing to do with scientology, despite the low pay. I haven't regretted it. Clearly, they were trying to pull me into Scientology's orbit and talked about what great plans they had for me, wanting to send me to the US for training and that sort of thing. People who could speak good English were extremely rare in Hungary in the 90s, so I guess that's why they had plans to groom me.
Dreamtimer
2nd July 2019, 14:54
What you say, Fred, is still creepy and I've watched/listened to all kinds of stuff re Scientology.
I have often wondered how it is that a man can make something like PA his living. The Scientology connection helps it to make sense.
They believe their work saves humanity.
Speaking or working against the church is anathema. (The side orgs likely still have this aspect)
Giving to the church is a requirement for any good member. Giving to the forum could be a sort of parallel for some folks.
And side-winders get up difficult slopes quickly...
http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/cclaterorepenssdcojjones.jpg
0ne of my favorite kinds of snakes.
Aragorn
2nd July 2019, 15:07
Hello Giovonni,
My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"
And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...
This is me, and I am glad to meet you..
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?32267-Denise-Dizi
I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
Welcome at The One Truth, Denise. :)
https://jandeane81.com/images/misc/welcome_01.jpeg
And of course, both Ilie and Paul have already left Project Avalon in the meantime, so there's a bit of a problem there, because Hervé, Tommy and Bill won't know what exactly Ilie and Paul changed without being able to compare that to a completely fresh vanilla installation of vBulletin 4.1.1, but the 4.x.x generation is already no longer available by now ─ vBulletin is now only available as a 5.x.x release anymore.
This statement is significant. As time moves forward, to be stuck on 4.1.1 could become problematic. Especially if that prevents security fix implementations. It also means a feature freeze. Maybe they have the ability to do a full rollback. That would result in the loss of the customizations but at least then they can move forward with new releases when available.
Well, vBulletin does provide patch-level updates, but I don't know how far they reach. So for instance, if you're running 4.2.1, then you can patch that up to 4.2.3 and it should remain fully compatible. But what I do not know is to what extent such a patch-level update will honor any customizations you've applied to the code since the initial installation. It might overwrite everything, or it might only overwrite those parts of the code that haven't been modified.
This is specific to each and every software title that gets installed outside of a package manager. vBulletin runs on GNU/Linux (or other UNIX) systems, and GNU/Linux has a package manager for installing and/or removing software ─ the package manager keeps track of every individual software package installed on the system ─ but vBulletin is third-party software that comes with its own installation procedure, outside of the package manager's scope. By consequence, the update/upgrade procedure is also specific to vBulletin itself, and so I have no idea how it works.
[...]
I also wondered what unix/linux commands a conspiracy board sysadmin might run in the course of a month. I know a little of top, htop, ps ax, stat and ps aux... but not much else. Over the next two years I will teach myself some basic sysadmin. Some pointers might be useful, if you had time. I can easily google "basic sysadmin commands", but running a conspiracy board may a few specific difficulties that normal sysadmins might not encounter.
Oh, well, to be honest, I have so far never had to access any command-line prompt in my now four years of being the administrator of The One Truth ─ or that is to say, I have not had to use any command-line tools on the server, because I am and have already for 20+ years exclusively been running GNU/Linux on my own workstations, and I do very often use the command line here.
But with regard to the management of the server, if you need to do anything specific with regard to traffic analysis, managing the server's email, managing the DNS entries, and the likes, you commonly do this by way of a web-based control panel ─ usually cPanel, but there are others, and it all depends on who your domain hosting company is. So it's all managed from within a web browser, over an encrypted connection. :)
Another thing with regard to UNIX servers ─ which includes GNU/Linux, the various BSD-based systems and OpenIndiana ─ is that once you've set up the system for a production role, almost everything is automated by way of a cron daemon of some sorts, which periodically runs scripts that do things like rotate the logs, check file integrity, index and update the file search database, et al. It really is very low-maintenance. :)
What I do recommend you would study, if you're interested in this stuff, is how to use the command line effectively, and how to write shell scripts. In GNU/Linux, the shell is most often GNU Bash, but there are others as well, such as the Z Shell, the C Shell and the Public Domain Korn Shell. They all have their specific syntax and properties, but with the exception of the C Shell, all others are pretty much compatible with the original Bourne Shell, so if you write your scripts as Bourne Shell scripts only, then they will be portable across all of those other shells.
This here (http://mywiki.wooledge.org/FullBashGuide) is a very good starters tutorial on how to use the shell and write scripts. :)
Paul ran the server from his house, right? That is impressive, if I'm correct. It must take some real skill to keep a board like that running.
No, that's not correct. Paul was the senior administrator at Project Avalon, and of course, he was interfacing with the server from within his own home, but that's quite common nowadays ─ I do that too. The Project Avalon server itself is however hosted at a data center.
First and foremost, if you're going to be running a server out of your own home, then that's going to become incredibly costly, because you'll need a top-of-the-line internet connection with guaranteed quality-of-service, you need top-of-the-line enterprise-grade hardware (including spare parts), you need a guaranteed 24/7 uptime on account of electricity, with backup generators, you need a decent hardware firewall, et al, and the server should be placed somewhere where nobody's smoking, where there are no cats or dogs around, and where it can remain at a constant low temperature.
Data centers offer all of the above at a much smaller cost. So you hire either a virtual private server, or a dedicated server, or you supply a server of your own, and then that gets mounted into a rack in a large, air-conditioned room, with secure access, and with the hardware constantly monitored. There will also be periodic (and automated) backups, stored on an external machine. Everything is on large uninterruptible power supplies, which themselves are backed up by diesel-powered generators. You simply cannot provide for all of that inside your own home for the same amount of money.
Trust me, I've run an IRC network with a couple of other people for about seven to eight years, the last three or four years of which we were attempting to host it ourselves because we thought it would have been cheaper. Well, not so, despite all of our equipment being second-hand (but enterprise-grade). It was horribly expensive, and when stuff breaks down, you yourself have to make sure that you replace the failed components with new ones, and as soon as possible.
So the Project Avalon server actually resides in one of those specialized data centers, and so does the server of The One Truth ─ they're at different data centers, though. :)
Dreamtimer
2nd July 2019, 18:32
Hello Giovonni,
My name is Denise, and I am an Avalon member.. My "Confession"
And I am happy to suggest that I am now also a TOT member... Truth is we can be members at both sites without getting stuck in the middle of some fist fight... I don't remember there being any questions upon registration, that asked my opinions of Avalon, Bill, or the community as a whole. And as such, that told me that I was welcome based upon who I was, not what someone else thought of who I might be.. And I do hope that you try to figure out who I am, before you slap a label on me personally...
This is me, and I am glad to meet you..
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/member.php?32267-Denise-Dizi
I do hope that I can in some way change the view that you have of the members of Avalon.
Glad to see you here. Welcome. :)
:cool::chrs::tiphat::group hug::fire::cantina:(welcome)
Daozen
2nd July 2019, 19:48
Thanks for that write up Aragorn, it is most useful. I will reply more in depth when I have more time, as you have brought up many interesting points. The Unix info basically gives me a roadmap for the next 2 years study, cheers. I had a feeling I might be wrong about Paul running the server from his house. I heard running servers from home could be a pain.
Zooming out (ignoring localized board politics for now) I feel there may be many esoterically inclined people who want to get into technology/software but feel it's too difficult for them. Maybe talking about server work would show them it's possible for anyone to learn these skills, with a couple of years (or more) dedication. Talking about Unix/Linux in the context of server management by yourself, and maybe Paul... might be a good, constructive way to salvage something useful from our time spent on other boards. Real life case studies are inspiring, believable, and engaging. Some tutorials (especially in the Linux world) can be a little dry for beginners, so colorful stories are interesting.
I'm not sure what linux distro I was running. I used Cloud9 for 4-5 years, so whatever they had. Ubuntu 14.04 LTS x64 I guess. I don't know any deeper than that. I also used digital ocean a couple of times. As I have ran small open source projects in the past, I always choose the plainest, most vanilla, widely distributed stack I can find, to aid with onboarding. I try not to customize anything at all if I can help it. IIRC I had some compatibility issues with different versions of Ubuntu a couple of years back. 14.04 something vs 16.04. Small issues like that can sometimes discourage otherwise promising programmers.
If you feel this conversation needs to be snipped out or moved please go ahead. But I think it could be healing on several levels. I guess non-interested people could skim any tech-oriented posts. I know there's a lot of brainpower in these parts, so who knows what lurker may benefit from these posts?
Aragorn
2nd July 2019, 19:54
Thanks for that write up Aragorn, it is most useful. I will reply more in depth when I have more time, as you have brought up many interesting points. The Unix info basically gives me a roadmap for the next 2 years study, cheers. I had a feeling I might be wrong about Paul running the server from his house. I heard running servers from home could be a pain.
Zooming out (ignoring localized board politics for now) I feel there may be many esoterically inclined people who want to get into technology/software but feel it's too difficult for them. Maybe talking about server work would show them it's possible for anyone to learn these skills, with a couple of years (or more) dedication. Talking about Unix/Linux in the context of server management by yourself, and maybe Paul... might be a good, constructive way to salvage something useful from our time spent on other boards. Real life case studies are inspiring, believable, and engaging. Some tutorials (especially in the Linux world) can be a little dry for beginners, so colorful stories are interesting.
I'm not sure what linux distro I was running. I used Cloud9 for 4-5 years, so whatever they had. Ubuntu 14.04 LTS x64 I guess. I don't know any deeper than that. I also used digital ocean a couple of times. As I have ran small open source projects in the past, I always choose the plainest, most vanilla, widely distributed stack I can find, to aid with onboarding. I try not to customize anything at all if I can help it. IIRC I had some compatibility issues with different versions of Ubuntu a couple of years back. 14.04 something vs 16.04. Small issues like that can sometimes discourage otherwise promising programmers.
If you feel this conversation needs to be snipped out or moved please go ahead. But I think it could be healing on several levels. I guess non-interested people could skim any tech-oriented posts. I know there's a lot of brainpower in these parts, so who knows what lurker may benefit from these posts?
In order not to break continuity, I will leave the posts on this thread, but I will also copy them over to an existing GNU/Linux thread (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11562-How-to-Get-Started-with-the-GNU-Linux-Operating-System) ─ and I suggest we carry on the techie conversation over there, so that this thread may remain on-topic, insomuch as possible. ;)
:back to topic: :back to topic: :back to topic: :back to topic: :back to topic:
Chris
3rd July 2019, 06:46
What you say, Fred, is still creepy and I've watched/listened to all kinds of stuff re Scientology.
I have often wondered how it is that a man can make something like PA his living. The Scientology connection helps it to make sense.
They believe their work saves humanity.
Speaking or working against the church is anathema. (The side orgs likely still have this aspect)
Giving to the church is a requirement for any good member. Giving to the forum could be a sort of parallel for some folks.
And side-winders get up difficult slopes quickly...
http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/cclaterorepenssdcojjones.jpg
0ne of my favorite kinds of snakes.
I'm personally less bothered by BR making money off PA, after all a man's gotta live and if you're doing this professionally and you have no other income, you've got to make money somehow. The scientology part does bother me though, but I don't know enough about the man or PA in general to determine how big of a problem that is. The face they show towards the outside world is that it barely matters and they've just taken the good parts of scientology without all the bad, negative stuff associated with the official church. I hope that's true, but it somehow seems unlikely.
Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 13:36
I'm personally less bothered by BR making money off PA, after all a man's gotta live and if you're doing this professionally and you have no other income, you've got to make money somehow. The scientology part does bother me though, but I don't know enough about the man or PA in general to determine how big of a problem that is. The face they show towards the outside world is that it barely matters and they've just taken the good parts of scientology without all the bad, negative stuff associated with the official church. I hope that's true, but it somehow seems unlikely.
I don't know how or where Bill Ryan gets his money. A man's got to live, and Bill is quite known for living a very humble and frugal lifestyle. Kerry Cassidy has even stated a couple of times that when she and Bill were together in the UK, Bill drove a car so old that Kerry thought it was going to fall apart any minute. And back when Bill was still married to Christine, their house looked the way it did ─ all neat and organized ─ because that was Christine's artistic and energetic expression, but I've heard from several people who met them both that if you gave Bill a simple wooden log to sit on, then that was all fine by him, so long as he had a place to sit. He's also always dressing in casual but comfortable clothing, rather than in any formal attire.
I have that in common with him, because I hate having to wear a suit and tie ─ it makes me feel like I'm suffocating and like I'm wearing a straitjacket. I always wear military-style cargo pants ─ usually in camouflage colors, albeit that not all of them are ─ and loose pullovers or T-shirts, depending on the weather, and comfortable shoes with thick rubber soles. First of all, it's comfortable to wear, secondly, it's practical ─ I like (and use) the extra pockets on the thighs of my pants ─ and thirdly, I think it looks cool. :)
As for the subject of Scientology, Bill is not a member of the actual Church of Scientology. I don't know to what extent Ron's Org or Free Zone would be harmful organizations, but I see Bill's adherence to Scientology as merely his own metaphysical conviction, and I have so far not seen him force Scientology upon anyone. It's his personal conviction as a human being on this planet, and as far as I'm concerned, he's as much entitled to his beliefs as anyone else. :hmm:
Chester
3rd July 2019, 13:37
Regarding Bill and PA/donations
The way I look at it all is that everybody's life path unfolds in part by planning but also as a result of less than predictable (and sometimes unpredictable) life. It appears to me the life circumstances Bill found himself facing resulted in his ownership of the PA forum. PA is a forum capable of generating donations (income) which Bill, as owner, can do with as he wishes.
If some or all of that income is used for personal support (the means to maintaining a life, a body and its basic needs) such that Bill can maintain a lifestyle whereby he can do (which requires time) what he feels is needed and best for the PA forum, which includes (IMO) caring for himself in ways he can fuel his spirit, allow for care for his soul, provide him the ability to focus on all the things he wants to and needs to for his spiritual maintenance... I don't begrudge Bill for any of that.
And I think most folks who have provided donations know much of this and share a similar view.
Chester
3rd July 2019, 13:57
I have had a reasonably extensive relationship with Bill off and on for several years. Never, once, did Bill bring Scientology into our conversations and never was there any hint of auditing as something PA or Bill would offer to a member. I did experience a period of time where, via my own curiosity, I reached out to Herve and for awhile we PM'd back and forth where he attempted (and succeeded) in assisting me in understanding the core views of Scientology...
I might call it "the metaphysical structure" of who/what we are in this world where Herve suggested the view far preceded LRH and his creation of Scientology and by way of Herve's recommendation, I obtained a book entitled Secrets of the Gypsies. Clearly, the core view (and premise upon which Scientology appears to rest) far pre-dates Scientology. Later I searched the Free-Org for a local auditor and engaged in a series of these procedures. I have nothing negative to say about auditing but I did not continue with the auditing for two reasons - one because I enjoy (and prefer) the way that Life/life, I/itself is essentially my "e-meter"... if I would only pay attention to the readings but most importantly, if I properly interpret the readings. The other reason was the cost... auditing can be quite expensive and there are many, many different auditing pathways available.
Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 14:00
Regarding Bill and PA/donations
The way I look at it all is that everybody's life path unfolds in part by planning but also as a result of less than predictable (and sometimes unpredictable) life. It appears to me the life circumstances Bill found himself facing resulted in his ownership of the PA forum. PA is a forum capable of generating donations (income) which Bill, as owner, can do with as he wishes.
If some or all of that income is used for personal support (the means to maintaining a life, a body and its basic needs) such that Bill can maintain a lifestyle whereby he can do (which requires time) what he feels is needed and best for the PA forum, which includes (IMO) caring for himself in ways he can fuel his spirit, allow for care for his soul, provide him the ability to focus on all the things he wants to and needs to for his spiritual maintenance... I don't begrudge Bill for any of that.
And I think most folks who have provided donations know much of this and share a similar view.
Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.
Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.
I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.
Chester
3rd July 2019, 14:19
Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.
Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.
I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.
Regarding the first point, the costs to run/maintain that forum are considering inflation from the last time Bill publicly stated the costs) is around $500. This does not include costs to any staff. But having mentioned that, from the last time Bill shared the information (I cannot know if this is the case since), all staff is all, 100% voluntary.
Regarding the second point (and I have prepared a significantly monstrous post which, if I pull the trigger, will be placed in my silly smorgasbord thread and which addresses this in the most broad sense), "giving" (whether money or any other form of giving) can have negative implications for others. And so in cases such as that, I can only imagine what "karma" might be created by the giver for her/himself in this regard.
A simple example is having a child that has a serious drug problem and you give them money when you know the odds are extremely high they will use it to buy drugs OR, if they use it to buy food instead (for example), you are still enabling them to survive without having to face the consequences of their indulgences thus you may actually be preventing them or at least prolonging their "need" to reach that bottom whereby they may actually take the first steps towards facing their problem with drugs. This type of "giving" is exemplified on a macro level by cities such as San Francisco. And worse, they do it by using the funding provided through taxes taken from those who live more responsibly. The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."
Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 14:34
Well, I will add two things to that. First and foremost, one should not underestimate the annual cost of running and maintaining the forum. It does cost a significant amount of money, and that money has to come from somewhere. So if the member donations pay for that expense, then there's nothing wrong with that. After all, Project Avalon is providing its members with a service that they can all benefit from without that there's any obligation to pay for it.
Secondly, Bill explained his own take on economics once in a video ─ it was an interview of both him and Kerry, so it's not recent ─ and I could perfectly relate to his idea. He said that he doesn't care much about whom he gives money to, nor about whom he receives it from. So rather than adhering to the quid pro quo vantage of our society where you pay a particular person or entity for a service from that very same person or entity, Bill regards money as a resource in a large pool. If you give, regardless of whom you give to, then it'll come back to you through some other avenue eventually. It's a much more natural balance than the quid pro quo.
I maintain a similar conviction, albeit that I cannot really apply it to finances anymore now ─ it was easier in the past when I still had money, but now I am officially on the poverty list. But I have always given ─ whether it was money, time, energy or whatever ─ without expecting anything in return, other than gratitude ─ and, disappointingly, sometimes you don't even get that. But I believe that if you give freely, then you will also receive back freely, in whatever way. What goes around must always come around, one way or the other. And Bill seems to have the same idea about that.
Regarding the first point, the costs to run/maintain that forum are considering inflation from the last time Bill publicly stated the costs) is around $500.
Actually, I could be wrong, but I believe that it would be significantly more than that. There's the lease for the domain name itself, which has to be periodically renewed, and then there's the cost of running the server, plus the cost of the server's facilities in terms of guaranteed network throughput, the periodic backups, the machine's hardware layout, and so on.
This does not include costs to any staff. But having mentioned that, from the last time Bill shared the information (I cannot know if this is the case since), all staff is all, 100% voluntary.
Yes, the Project Avalon staff members are not being financially reimbursed, nor would that be the case here at The One Truth or at Eye-Rise. We all do what we do out of a 100% voluntary commitment.
Unless your name is George Noory, Jay Weidner, David Wilcock or Corey Goode of course, because for them this whole alternative community thing is nothing but a business. ;)
Regarding the second point (and I have prepared a significantly monstrous post which, if I pull the trigger, will be placed in my silly smorgasbord thread and which addresses this in the most broad sense), "giving" (whether money or any other form of giving) can have negative implications for others. And so in cases such as that, I can only imagine what "karma" might be created by the giver for her/himself in this regard.
A simple example is having a child that has a serious drug problem and you give them money when you know the odds are extremely high they will use it to buy drugs OR, if they use it to buy food instead (for example), you are still enabling them to survive without having to face the consequences of their indulgences thus you may actually be preventing them or at least prolonging their "need" to reach that bottom whereby they may actually take the first steps towards facing their problem with drugs. This type of "giving" is exemplified on a macro level by cities such as San Francisco. And worse, they do it by using the funding provided through taxes taken from those who live more responsibly. The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."
Yes, of course, but I was not addressing those issues, as that would take us too deep into that subject, and it would be off-topic for this thread ─ we've already drifted off-topic a few times. So my statement was generic and therefore precluded any "negative karma" situations. ;)
The intent may be "good" but the results show that what is thought to be "good" is actually and obviously "bad."
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
That doesn't mean that people should stop giving, as giving is almost always the right thing to do.
What ever you give will come back to you in one way or another. I too have given a lot without asking or expecting anything back in return and as Aragorn said, sadly sometimes people don't even bother to give thanks. That surely tells something. When it comes to governments helping people, well, that's another thing. I do believe that nourishing food, free public healthcare and shelters for people are basic human rights and they are non-negotiable. Not everyone is able to take care of themselves, for various reasons. Sometimes they are mental or physical problems & illnesses. That's where empathy should kick in or if it doesn't then we see a society that resembles a shithole.
Some people get into addictions, those addictions shouldn't be fed, but the core problem should be dealt with. Of course then there is the karma too which all of us have and it manifests in our lives in multiple different ways... That doesn't mean that we shouldn't help each others as life most certainly can be a struggle for most of us. We all have to face misery and sorrow eventually anyways and everyone is going to need some support.
Sorry for contributing to the off-topic. :back to topic:
Chester
3rd July 2019, 15:52
Actually, I could be wrong, but I believe that it would be significantly more than that. There's the lease for the domain name itself, which has to be periodically renewed, and then there's the cost of running the server, plus the cost of the server's facilities in terms of guaranteed network throughput, the periodic backups, the machine's hardware layout, and so on.
Yes, the Project Avalon staff members are not being financially reimbursed, nor would that be the case here at The One Truth or at Eye-Rise. We all do what we do out of a 100% voluntary commitment.
Unless your name is George Noory, Jay Weidner, David Wilcock or Corey Goode of course, because for them this whole alternative community thing is nothing but a business. ;)
Yes, of course, but I was not addressing those issues, as that would take us too deep into that subject, and it would be off-topic for this thread ─ we've already drifted off-topic a few times. So my statement was generic and therefore precluded any "negative karma" situations. ;)
Feel free to move the above posts to the smorgasbord thread... I would like it if you did.
Aragorn
3rd July 2019, 15:59
Feel free to move the above posts to the smorgasbord thread... I would like it if you did.
I'm not going to be moving them because then that would break the flow of the communication, given that excerpts from those posts are on-topic. However, I have copied over posts #220 through #224 to your smorgasbord. :)
Silly Wabbit
4th July 2019, 04:56
Welcome Silly Wabbit ...
Ah ... Denise-Dizi !
Why not use your PA avatar name here as well?
Thank You, and everyone else for the wonderful welcome..
I suppose I just thought it would be fun to create another "User Name".. I didn't give it much thought honestly. There is a funny story behind that actually.
When I first tried to log in, I thought I would be "Creative".. I chose "Innocence Lost"..Thinking that I had surely fallen into a "rabbit hole", and that would be a great nickname.. I added my 2nd email address, so that I wouldn't get any spam notifications in my email box.. And when I went to go verify the email address was mine? I couldn't remember my password... it had been over 2 years since I registered at Avalon.
I was going to then just use the same name Denise-Dizi, but I thought it was so funny that I forgot my own password, I wrote "Silly Wabbit" instead. I did however, use my image so that everyone knew it was me. It was just a silly name I wrote because I was in a joking mood at the time... I may change it over to the same username.. But at the time I thought it was funny...
I do want to address a question someone had about Auditing going on over at Avalon... I believe that they may have been given some misleading information. There was a gathering at the UfoMegaCon. Avalon had a 3 day gathering directly following that event, where I believe 22 members flew in to be able to meet each other.
While we were there, there was a member there that does auditing for a living. They had once done auditing for the church of Scientology, but they have since left, and they now do this in a "Freelance" capacity. Because there had been some curiosity about what "Auditing" was? This gentlemen offered to give us a demonstration.
The people that were "Audited" volunteered, and did so under their own free will, and the rest of the members were free to stay and watch or leave if they wished. No one was held their against their will.. I believe this may be what you are referring to, when you are suggesting that PA is "Auditing it's members".. I was at this gathering.. And this is the auditing that I believe that you are referring to.
I do believe that any member of Avalon has been able to learn that there was some auditing being done. But I felt it important to clarify what that meant. So everyone knows the context in which this happened. Avalon is not randomly auditing people without their knowledge, in fact you must participate with the one doing the auditing for it to work.
By the way, I did not see how auditing could benefit me in any way, but those that did have it done did seem to be impressed with the demonstration for themselves. It was interesting.
Dear Reader
4th July 2019, 08:42
Hi Silly Wabbit!
Thank you for the clarification on the auditing, very helpful. Are you able to comment on the after-effects on the members that did have the auditing process? It looks like that when the members returned to PA after the meet-up, there seems to have been quite a bit of negativity swirling abound and around, some members even have accounts retired or whatever the correct euphemism is.
Was it good fun at the meet-up? What was your overall take away from it? I suppose people are people are people are people, whenever and wherever we may be from.
Thanks for your ensight.
Daozen
4th July 2019, 13:57
I don't begrudge anyone donations. I think donations and selling online is healthy. I can't stand it when people get sniffy about money changing hands. International websites cost a lot to run, as we all know. I have often wondered myself what I would do if I was in Bill's position. What I do mind is if donations are linked to content. Especially delusional faux-rightism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits because they have donated? I think that's almost definitely the case...
Is it legal? Probably. Would I want to contribute to a site like that? Not really. I don't have much energy or inclination to discuss this now, or ever, but that's how I feel.
Chester
4th July 2019, 13:58
Hi SW, Thank you for this post. There are two things I would like to comment on that you covered in your post and I will use the Aragorn method.
By the way, I did not see how auditing could benefit me in any way, but those that did have it done did seem to be impressed with the demonstration for themselves. It was interesting.
I believe it was during 2015 I sought to explore the experience of auditing in a step-by-step fashion. Thus "the demo" was an important step. After having reached through various individuals who are part of the loose organization referred to as "the Free Org" I found myself in the home of a gentleman who obliged my request to meet. He was a long time "Free-Orger." His energy was wonderful and that alone raised my enthusiasm. We sat at a coffee table and he pulled out his equipment (an e-meter). He explained that by my proper holding of "the cans" as he called them, the e-meter would be able to detect changes emanating from "me" through my body. He explained the e-meter can detect when I would experience physical discomfort and he demonstrated this by pinching me on the arm whereby I observed the needle of the e-meter jumping far to the right.
He then explained that the when we experience psychic pain (emotional, etc.) that the e-meter is able to detect this as well. And so what an auditor does is to gently (or sometimes maybe not so gently - when trust between the one being audited (the client) and the auditor is more established) ask questions covering various areas of one's life experiences where the auditor is able to identify specific areas that bring up the emotional (psychic) pain held in the overall psyche of the client. The auditor then will work with the client whereby the client can achieve freedom from the pain. The word the auditor used for a specific painful memory or grouping of connected memories is "an engram." Thus the goal of the auditor is to assist the client in deceiving resolution and thus elimination of various "engrams."
And the ultimate goal is for the client to have achieved full relief, permanent relief from all engrams whereby the client would be deemed to be "clear." Once "clear" the client would have the opportunity to start climbing the "OT ladder" (my term) where there are various grade levels like OT1, OT2, OT3, etc. Years ago I read that the highest completed OT level was OT7. I also read that OT8 was in the works by LRH when he died. I also recall reading OT8 was completed but I am unsure if that information meant that LRH had completed OT8 (thus conflicting with the other information) or that someone else (or a group) completed OT8.
OT stands for "Operating Thetan." And from my limited understanding, "thetan" refers to that aspect of one's being which is "their individuated spirit" which, based on what I gathered from my studies is the actual being from the point of view that a.) the body and b.) that which is the continuation of physical life through our DNA (Scientology refers to this as "the genetic entity") cause a confusion in that they essentially have a "mind" of their own. And that this sets up a three-way sense of separateness due to each of the three operating "not on the same page" with the understanding that if the "thetan" achieves "clear" the thetan experiences a unity of sorts centered and operated freely by the thetan where conflict no longer occurs at the level of the genetic entity or the body.
The above summarizes as best I can as to the understanding of Scientology and what its all about. My words may lead a true scientologist to conclude I have some of it wrong, and I may, but I shared what I honestly believe is what its all about.
But I felt it important to clarify what that meant. So everyone knows the context in which this happened. Avalon is not randomly auditing people without their knowledge, in fact you must participate with the one doing the auditing for it to work.
I only quoted the end of the first section but would like the reader to understand that I am actually referring to the entire section with regards to the following.
What SW wrote is significantly different than what was written by the member who stated "what they had heard." I don't know SW but based on my own experience with PA as to any "touching" of Scientology and my reasonably involved experience with PA, I make odds all but 100% certain, what SW shared is the actual truth.
And so why I have jumped on this is it shows (again... and again and again and again), the truly destructive habit so many of this community engage in whereby what was once an actual truth runs through the "he said/she said rumor mill" and ends up being completely and entirely different as to its implications once spat out the other side. This is precisely a primary reason why I will never engage in PMs with anyone from this community other than the single administrator of this forum (or any other forum I participate). Its just too dangerous. There are other reasons as well and some just as important. But I was really glad to read SWs post because it is such a great example of how this happens.
Why can we not all post all and everything straight up in the forum? This is a serious question I am asking. I have what I would put all the money in the world on to be the correct, accurate, precise answer.
Let's see if any others come up with this same answer.
Chester
4th July 2019, 14:03
Hi Silly Wabbit!
Thank you for the clarification on the auditing, very helpful. Are you able to comment on the after-effects on the members that did have the auditing process? It looks like that when the members returned to PA after the meet-up, there seems to have been quite a bit of negativity swirling abound and around, some members even have accounts retired or whatever the correct euphemism is.
Was it good fun at the meet-up? What was your overall take away from it? I suppose people are people are people are people, whenever and wherever we may be from.
Thanks for your ensight.
Exactly... I "heard" the same thing and it came from many directions. All via "back-channel" communications.
Why then can't these folks simply post about it on the open forum? What is it about these forums where this type of dynamic occurs and repeats itself? Why would we ever be surprised when a schism arises?
Chester
4th July 2019, 14:22
What I do mind is if donations are linked to content. Especially delusional faux-rightism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated? I think that's almost definitely the case...
Note I am an independent, heavily libertarian with a slight lean left. I state that because of the question I want to ask.
Would your opinion equally apply to [my words to follow]
...delusional faux-leftism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated?
All I am hoping to point out is that if we continually bash "left" or "right" in the form it now constantly occurs on so many of these forums, aren't we engaging in the very activity those who are actually manipulating the strings tied to left/right/liberal/conservative want us to do?
For example, a poster may also be passionate about one "side" or the "other" to the point their passion is experienced by others as fanaticism. Yet that very same poster may have some fantastic things to say [having nothing to do with politics or at least directly] and yet, due to their unfettered fanaticism, they reduce or eliminate a portion of readers who, in some cases, could benefit the most from their words.
What baffles me the most is that (and perhaps this a huge mistake on my part) but I expect more from myself in this regard (and thus had/have hopes for the community at large) because most of us have done the research and know this is what is actually happening from above. In other (and shorter) words, we should all know better. At least this is the lesson I have learned over the last few years about my own self-responsible entrapment into the silliness of political, emotionally charged argument.
Dreamtimer
4th July 2019, 14:28
In other (and shorter) words, we should all know better.
:amen:
I wonder the same thing about people I know and interact with in person. They should know better and yet they fall into the same traps. It's a combination of ego and denial. People really can't stand admitting they are wrong.
And yet, that is crucial. Somewhere along the line folks decided it was weak.
It's not. It takes great strength to admit being wrong.
Aragorn
4th July 2019, 14:34
I don't begrudge anyone donations. I think donations and selling online is healthy. I can't stand it when people get sniffy about donations. International websites cost a lot to run, as we all know. I have often wondered myself what I would do if I was in Bill's position. What I do mind is if donations are linked to content. Especially delusional faux-rightism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated? I think that's almost definitely the case...
Is it legal? Probably. Would I want to contribute to a site like that? Not really. I don't have much energy or inclination to discuss this now, or ever, but that's how I feel.
Well, there are a lot of unknowns in that equation. First of all, to the best of my knowledge, Bill Ryan doesn't publish the names of the members who donate to Project Avalon ─ Malc doesn't do that over here at The One Truth either. By consequence, we do not know whether the members who donate to Project Avalon would also be the same members as who propagate the right-wing bigotry over there.
Secondly, I doubt that Bill would be selling out to certain members and their opinions because of their donations. I think Bill's got a lot more integrity than that, and furthermore, his moderators also have a say in what will be allowed to appear at Project Avalon and what not. And I know that Bill's not happy with the co-opting of the alternative community by the US American "alt-right". He has made his sentiments in that regard public on more than one occasion already.
However, in my humble opinion, Bill and his staff have waited too long before intervening. It was the coup d'état perpetrated by Jean-Marie, Kristin and Sierra that woke the Project Avalon mod room up to what was going on, but in my humble opinion, some members like "A Voice from the Mountains" ─ alias our former super moderator bsbray, who is banned from The One Truth for life ─ should have already been kicked off of Project Avalon a long time ago for relentlessly propagandizing and for their gaslighting and bullying of other members.
That US-centric "alt-right" nonsense is a big mental disease, and its infestation of Project Avalon is still not completely a thing of the past yet ─ which is no surprise, because many of Project Avalon's members are US Americans, and this stuff has become ingrained in US American culture through decades of deliberate indoctrination. Innocent children are already being taught to swear allegiance to the American flag in kindergarten and elementary school ─ this is factual. Hollywood tells all US Americans that they're heroes who bring democracy to the rest of the world, and who save the planet from takeovers by evil aliens. And the heroes are always (former or active) US Marines, because the US Marines are an elite corps ─ and for that matter, one that by law has been designed to exclusively operate outside of the borders of the US American mainland.
When Trump rose to power, this brainwashing set in again with many of the so-called alternative community's residents, not in the very least because Trump and his campaign supporters started declaring their political adversaries as being the so-called Deep State™. That certainly got the attention of the so-called alternative community. All US Democrats are now baby-eating satanic pedophiles, and so on. And you'd be surprised how many people still believe that to be true.
I am going to quote a post from Project Avalon moderator Dennis Leahy below ─ I think it's on a members-only thread, but there is nothing in Dennis' post that would be confidential, and I think it deserves public attention, because it's an excellent post.
Allow me to pose some questions:
(hypothetical premise) A new US government insider/whistleblower has come forward. The whistleblower calls himself "R." R starts "dropping" tidbits of information as well as proof that he is indeed an insider, by correctly predicting some things. R tells us that the US political party, the Republicans, is the "Deep State." R states that the Republicans have a Republican pedophile network. R further expounds that Hillary Clinton is a hero in disguise, or rather THEE hero we've all been waiting for. She is going to "drain the swamp", getting rid of all the Republicans (who R says is the Deep State.) R also lets us know that Hillary Clinton is aligned with the Zionist agenda, but assures us that this is not a contradiction.
So, what do we Avalonians do with this "information" in the R drops?
One possibility is to say, "anything is possible", and spend time (maybe even years, and tens of thousands of man-hours of research) looking into the possibility that R may be 100% legitimate and truthful, that Clinton really is on the side of humanity, and our hero. Clinton is not associated with or tied to any known bad guys. R is not a psyop.
One possibility would be to stop immediately and say, "but we already knew for a fact - by her actions - that Hillary Clinton is certainly not a 'good guy', so R must be a propaganda campaign." We also already figured out, decades ago, that Zionism is an evil and selfish ideology, clearly making Zionists among the really 'bad guys' on the planet. Clinton is associated with and tied to known bad guys. R is a psyop.
So, let's look past Q, and R, and ask ourselves: how in the hell could we possibly allow ourselves to believe that known bad guys are good guys? How can our discernment be so far out of whack that we would dig through R drops and find something real or true, and conflate that to equal that Clinton is not just one of the good guys, but the leader of the good guys? How could we ever be so gullible as to accept that Clinton has humanity's best interests at heart? How could we give her a pass on the verifiable history of the evil actions taken by Clinton?
There is only one gigantic financial/corporate network on Earth. Global in scope. Globalists by network. Please see this post (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?102077-Examples-of-Trump-Administration-Dismantling-Deep-State--s-Agenda-21-Blueprint-&p=1231625&viewfull=1#post1231625), for a diagram/fingerprint of the network. Q and R are trying to convince us that their hero, although tied to and controlled by this network, is somehow a good guy. Note that the USA trillion dollar budget is about 2/3rds military industrial complex corporations (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY), and (I can't think of an exception), all of the giant multinational corporations are evil to the core. The more deeply tied to this network, the more demonstrably evil an individual is. Shouldn't our discernment kick in at this point?
This US-centric party-political madness and cultural/national narcissism must be brought to an end, because it has no place among a subset of the population that regards itself as being Awake & Aware™. :hmm:
Chester
4th July 2019, 14:46
Is it possible that someone might venture to guess at this?
Why can we not all post all and everything straight up in the forum? This is a serious question I am asking. I have what I would put all the money in the world on to be the correct, accurate, precise answer.
Let's see if any others come up with this same answer.
I fully agree with that, Aragorn.
:amen:
I wonder the same thing about people I know and interact with in person. They should know better and yet they fall into the same traps. It's a combination of ego and denial. People really can't stand admitting they are wrong.
And yet, that is crucial. Somewhere along the line folks decided it was weak.
It's not. It takes great strength to admit being wrong.
That is true, it takes courage and humility to admit that you're wrong. It's healing too, but the ego doesn't like that as it diminishes it's power and makes you feel less powerful or worthy in the eyes of others, which is untrue of course. There's a lot of cognitive dissonance at play and it's also absolutely true that all of us have our own biases. Some of us are just more aware of those things and of our shortcomings too and we have the self-analysis skills and courage to admit that.
I don't know if it's scary, but at times it's hugely disappointing to see that the alternative community is still not that much different from the "normies", people in this community can be just as deluded if not even more. Tribalism and "competition"-mentality in society should be a thing of the past and yet it still so prevalent, very much in this alternative community too. That is the domain of the ego, that's where all dramas, arguments, conflicts and wars ultimately come from. The illusion of being separate and disliking and hating "the others" because they don't seem to be thinking as you do. They're still humans just as you are, they might be just very unconscious. In fact many people today are so unconscious that they don't even know that they are totally swept away by maya, the illusion. They don't know who or what they really are.
Many people think they're "awake", but they're not actually that awake. They may be aware about the way how some things operate and how much we have been lied to, but they still can't see the forest for the trees. What does it even mean to be awake (or woke as the younger ones say now)? It's a journey to self-discovery and it's something that doesn't happen overnight. It takes years, decades and even lifetimes to become fully awake and understand what the hell this human condition is really about.
How can people in this community not the see that the ruling class - the bastards that be want division in society and people are doing their work for them by getting into conflict with each other all the time! For example, what happened to Occupy Wall Street? Why is Gitmo still standing? Why only very few people seem to care about people like Julian Assange? Why do people still believe the lies that get them and their countries into endless wars over oil and cheer for that?
The real problem of this planet, the "elite" will just be laughing on their way to the bank and meanwhile all the Joe Sixpacks and white & blue collar-people keep on slaving away in a land of confusion "thinking" that they are free while they are brainwashed. Divide et impera.
Dreamtimer
4th July 2019, 14:53
I have personally tried to do that many times, Sammy.
And many times, people choose to re-interpret or mis-interpret my words.
Words aren't exact or absolute.
People need to want to listen, want to think, want to consider, want to discuss.
When they don't, then misunderstandings occur.
We can try to be as straightforward as possible, but there are challenges.
That's my take. I hope I actually addressed you query.
Daozen
4th July 2019, 14:56
Well. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But facts come first, opinions later.
- Turiya donated to Project Avalon, he admitted it on this board. He posted right wing propaganda and even harassed some members via PM.
- Chip gave a "very generous" (Bills words IIRC) monthly donation and also heavily supported the Q info. Surprise.
So those are the facts as I see them. I am not inclined to go digging around on this issue because I respect Bill's privacy. However, I also respect the feelings and hard work of thousands of members who have had their hard work co-opted, warped and trashed by delusional Trumpites.
We don't know? Well, we could settle this by asking Bill. Have members A,B,C, and D donated to the site? He'd be well within his legal and moral rights to completely ignore the question, and he probably would. I wouldn't push it either.
But it is not entirely accurate to say we don't know if donations match right wing content because;
1) There are verifiable facts where donations match content that point to a hidden iceberg.
2) Anyone could ask Bill that question.
I have other things to do than discuss this issue, but I think it's better if any further discussion is 1) Fact not opinion based. 2) Succinct.
Just my opinion.
Chester
4th July 2019, 15:09
I have personally tried to do that many times, Sammy.
And many times, people choose to re-interpret or mis-interpret my words.
Words aren't exact or absolute.
People need to want to listen, want to think, want to consider, want to discuss.
When they don't, then misunderstandings occur.
We can try to be as straightforward as possible, but there are challenges.
That's my take. I hope I actually addressed you query.
I agree with the entire post.
Regarding my own answer to my own question, this is pointed to in the above post.
Chester
4th July 2019, 15:18
Well. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. But facts come first, opinions later.
- Turiya donated to Project Avalon, he admitted it on this board. He posted right wing propaganda and even harassed some members via PM.
- Chip gave a "very generous" (Bills words IIRC) monthly donation and also heavily supported the Q info. Surprise.
So those are the facts as I see them. I am not inclined to go digging around on this issue because I respect Bill's privacy. However, I also respect the feelings and hard work of thousands of members who have had their hard work co-opted, warped and trashed by delusional Trumpites.
We don't know? Well, we could settle this by asking Bill. Have members A,B,C, and D donated to the site? He'd be well within his legal and moral rights to completely ignore the question, and he probably would. I wouldn't push it either.
But it is not entirely accurate to say we don't know if donations match right wing content because;
1) There are verifiable facts where donations match content that point to a hidden iceberg.
2) Anyone could ask Bill that question.
I have other things to do than discuss this issue, but I think it's better if any further discussion is 1) Fact not opinion based. 2) Succinct.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for this post. In the early days leading up to the US Presidential election, I was heavily "anti-corruption" and this translated to "anything but Hillary." I also allowed myself to get pulled into the politics discussion and played the very role I criticize in a post above. So I surely had to have been perceived as a "Trumpite."
I retired from PA without discovering "Q" and it feels like good fortune. I was a consistent donor (at a precise, not small but not very large) monthly sum when I was participating (and not in retirement). I did not know that donors made public statements about their donations but I take your word the ones you mentioned above stated that they were donors or that someone else who is credible stated such. I have now stated on a public forum that I was a donor at PA and thus would have no just cause to take issue if someone repeated that.
This reply (once again) hints at "that which lies at the heart" of my question.
Chester
4th July 2019, 15:38
The following was originally added to a prior post. I have moved it here to make it a new post.
How can people in this community not the see that the ruling class - the bastards that be want division in society and people are doing their work for them by getting into conflict with each other all the time! For example, what happened to Occupy Wall Street? Why is Gitmo still standing? Why only very few people seem to care about people like Julian Assange? Why do people still believe the lies that get them and their countries into endless wars over oil and cheer for that?
The real problem of this planet, the "elite" will just be laughing on their way to the bank and meanwhile all the Joe Sixpacks and white & blue collar-people keep on slaving away in a land of confusion "thinking" that they are free while they are brainwashed. Divide et impera.
This is precisely my view and in effect, precisely as I stated above. I will have more to comment about this down the road.
Dreamtimer
4th July 2019, 15:55
Good move. I could continue the list for a few paragraphs...
Daozen
5th July 2019, 00:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGfTPqOnqh8
Right now I'm in a rest phase, and I don't really have the energy to go through the details of the Project Avalon debacle in detail.Maybe posting every 2-3 weeks might be better. I think, Aragorn, that it would be more productive of us to discuss Unix/Linux in the GNU thread, as I believe that is the best way to heal, move forward and do something creative. I'm trying to drop this issue for now, or maybe forever. Waking up and seeing replies to my posts stirs up thoughts and feelings, and I feel obliged to respond.
So I will try and make this my last post on the subject, for now, at least. I will park my thoughts in neutral and move on.
I actually signed up at the old PA board in 2009.I contributed to the New Project Avalon Library for over 7 years, and while I am trying to tell myself "who cares, it's just a board." I feel very strongly about what happened there. So this letter lets out 10 years of thoughts. Avalon was one of the greatest healing libraries in the world at one point. It still is, but the foyer is trashed and littered with broken glass.
QUOTE FROM SAM:
***
Would your opinion equally apply to [my words to follow]
...delusional faux-leftism. i.e. are certain posters allowed to have the run of the site and continually test limits. because they have donated?
***
Yes it would. We just happen to be in a faux-right 8 year cycle. I am aware of the artificial political "divide" and the pointlessness of mudslinging. Thanks for bringing that up.
I remember when the "Obama-will-save-us" psy-op caused similar damage to message boards in 07/08. So it is not a partisan issue, as you point out, Sam. What we have is loudmouth, self-absorbed, moneyed first-worlders bullhorning the rest of us with their "opinions" and causing multiple message boards to be sucked into a world of boredom, rancor and animosity. I tried to rise above it, but sometimes you have to call it out.
DNA even admitted that he "supported Obama" and was "wrong". Uhhuh, OK. Yeah. So Obama is the man_on_the_horse in 2007, and DNA supports him. Here's one of his posts:
http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?11398-Barack-Obama-2011&p=257994&highlight=Obama#post257994
Turns out Obama_on_a_horse is false. Now DNA switches sides and supports Trump. OK. Uhhuh. Really? There's a pattern emerging here. It's not right vs left. What we have is delusionals vs pragmatists, for want of better words.
I believe most Avalons to be peaceful people, focused on healing, music, nutrition, meditation, new ways of living. etc. The PA board started off well. A leafy glade in the forest had been found, a library was set up. A campfire was lit.
Now a tour-bus pulls up, and a bunch of red faced, braying loudmouths waddles into the glade... and we endure years and years of Amero-centric political bullhorning, crotch thrusting, and esoteric fear porn, from BOTH sides of the mental ward.
Obama will save you.
BRICS will save you.
Putin will save you.
WWIII is coming from Syria/Iran etc.
Trump will save you.
Sea levels will rise.
Q will save you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbmBgeK14-k
What we have here... leaving the money question aside.... is a sustained, pre-meditated, calculated abuse of trust, time and human energy. Not from the "left", not from the "right", but from aggressive, self-absorbed sophists selling us faux-freedom in a silly, sanctimonious pseudo-intellectual shell-game.
Dennis is right to point out the huge amount of time suckered into this fiasco. What could have been done if we'd focused on building something useful? And I think that is the point of this all... to distract, deny, degrade and distract again. I'm actually kind of flattered that someone is making such a huge effort to bring the Avalon Mission down.
*
Why does this annoy me so much? Because if humanity does not get its act together, then we will waddle/shuffle into cashless global government and never get out. Avalon was one of the nodes that could have resisted cashless tyranny, and been a beacon of sanity and light in the coming years. And now it's overrun. I think Avalon was deliberately targeted.
So, yes, I'm a little stressed from over-work. But this is not just forumite gossip. Q's support of an Iran attack proves there's something serious afoot.
Now, I'm not actually as sensitive as people make out. But if I ask a question on Avalon like "Hey {POSTER X}, are you paid to be here?... why are you always here?" ... then passive-aggressive hell breaks loose, several plain-clothes posters take off their tie-dyed T-Shirts, and underneath their hippy garb, we see they are dressed in full-on Nurse Ratched regalia. I would like to talk situations like this out, but threads get locked quick if you talk back to an inner-circle poster. These posters are very much protected, despite the occasional show-banning, in ways that are difficult to discern, but still tangible. The Avalon razor-tripwires are hard to find, but they are sure there hidden in the grass. A lot of people agree with me. A lot. They're just too scared to say it out loud.
Now I do respect Bill, but I'm sorry, I do not see him as the innocent "Im-staying-out-of-this" neutral that he makes himself out to be. Bill's annoyed? So am I. The "damage"... (Bill's words) I caused to Avalon took 2 weeks. Bill's took ten years.
<
Someone is making a huge effort to control the forums. That tells me a lot.
Now there's a price to pay for all this high-volume politiking, "folks". The price is... creative people with brains, hearts and options are just going to flat out leave boards that have been overturned. I did. So did a ton of others. What now? Our "passionate political pundits" are going to be left bullhorning in a black, empty deserted isle (deserted aisle?). We will go to places where they cannot find us. I don't want to be suckered into a political whirlpool for two years, then be lectured about how we should "work together" by the very people who caused the problem. More than anything else, it's mind-numbingly boring. You may want to ask yourselves why my posts were allowed to stand on 6/6. Mods were fully aware of them. Ponder that.
Please no one make out I am some basement dweller who doesn't do anything else but walk around arguing on the net, hahaha. I am plenty active outside the boards, and do good things with good people at the weekend. My post count on Avalon and The One Truth is comparatively low compared to many. But one facet of my life has to be spent online. I come on the net cos I think it's a good way to learn with people. I have found life saving health info here. I spend time on the Middle-Earth boards cos I'm learning programming or drumming online, and I need something esoteric to offset those fields of study. I see a lot of people offline, my job is highly social... but one pre-requisite of success is hours of semi-solitary self-study. They call it the Woodshed, right? Charlie Parker transformed himself in the woodshed, so did Zed Shaw and Sonny Rollins. Avalon helped me through the self-study I needed to get good at programming and guitar. I don't have enough money to go to a coding bootcamp.
I'm not going to string this out now I've vented. Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I've actually blown off less than most in this thread. All of you have said plenty of things in this discussion... so plz everyone allow me my time to talk things out, without being overly censorious or stifling. You all went through this exit-rant-phase too. I'll get through it. I process emotions quick.
*
Here's an apology letter I wrote after an exchange with a calm and kind mod. I sent it to them after they initiated a conversation, and was told "thanks for the letter," The agreement was I would tidy some of my dumber posts, and we would find a place to post it. My account was then suddenly locked without warning and I could no longer post this letter. So Bill has not actually told any straight up untruths, but he sure does omit a lot. And the buck does stop with him, even though he pretends it doesn't.
What we have in Avalon is a media arm of a nascent technocratic feudal state. Those pesky globalists are trying to build a 5G control grid in China. Bless them :) They sure do work hard! Take a look at Sesame Credit. It's technocratic tyranny. That's not cool, it's not edgy, it's not fun for friends or family. There are factions that want to expand China's control system worldwide. Piecemeal propagandists are swarming like mechanized locusts all over the discussion boards, and it goes way beyond left/right/left/right/left/right arguments.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bVdKjdh1PkjixAoiePao_Hdg5bhv5Xjpyq4WYY4wAPQ/edit
*
Avalon has become a propaganda-by-distraction arm of those who seek to incrementally bring in bourgeois techno-fascism. Imagine if VoiceFromTheMountains was your supervisor, and could automatically fine you for "dissent". That's already happening in China. Why are we being distracted with this Q/Trump "intel"? Wake up, Neo. Wake up and walk away.
There's way more under the surface, which I am obliged to hold my tongue about out of respect for other's privacy and safety. God, if only you knew. God protect us all.
Writing that up took 2 hours, but it's better that these swirling thoughts are on paper than in my head. If we all let this go for now... I'll go play drums, walk in the woods, swim, code, watch comedy, and get my Epiphone SG fixed. If I read another post quoting me, I'll probably just let it slide. Please no more questions. Thanks in advance for that. I really, really do believe in creating positive space, but sometimes, if you see black mould in the corner, you have to scrub it. Otherwise it'll grow.
Aragorn, we are best off in the Unix thread. :) We have some interesting info to exchange which may benefit others. I don't think another multi-quoted exchange on board politics would help either of us. I understand that you or anyone else may want to respond to these posts, that's cool. But I will probably just leave it there regarding replying here, and not answer any more questions. We all have things to do offline, and you could help me do something really positive, creative and useful for the world if you gave me some pointers on Unix.
Thanks for reading,
Daozen
*
Now...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8u4VLk0iTI
Fred Steeves
5th July 2019, 01:58
Part of this ever repeating pattern of lather, rinse, repeat that we see with the revolving door Daozen, based on my experience beginning 2010 with the advent of now hidden "Charles, Rulers of the World Material", is how members who begin to see through the oh so subtle technocratic control mechanisms steering general membership behavior and thought patterns that are in place, and dare to start describing what they are beginning to "see', are duly phased out of the machine's rear end even as the new wide eyed recruits are arriving to begin the cycle all over again with the typical rah rah go team!
I don't really blame it any more, it's like blaming a machine for doing what it does. It's cold and impersonal, like don't go feeling around under the lawnmower for a loose bolt while it's running, results for fingers involved are predictable.
I think however what always gets lost in this type of conversation is that said problem is never isolated to one lone "Project", it's systemic, with this one particular "Project" in question being only one tiny spoke amongst many other spokes supporting a grand spinning wheel over great periods of time.
Silly Wabbit
5th July 2019, 06:26
Hi Silly Wabbit!
Thank you for the clarification on the auditing, very helpful. Are you able to comment on the after-effects on the members that did have the auditing process? It looks like that when the members returned to PA after the meet-up, there seems to have been quite a bit of negativity swirling abound and around, some members even have accounts retired or whatever the correct euphemism is.
Was it good fun at the meet-up? What was your overall take away from it? I suppose people are people are people are people, whenever and wherever we may be from.
Thanks for your ensight.
I was not one of those that had the auditing done, so I can't tell you if there were lasting benefits from those that had it done while we were there. I never asked those members if the effects lasted? That's a good question actually.
As far as the negativity? I can only speculate. I can tell you when I came back from the event. I was overwhelmed. I had just experienced a lot of energy all at one time. many personalities for 9 days and 8 nights non stop. Plus two days of driving and flying, and waiting at airports. I was exhausted. Physically and emotionally.
But to try to even touch what each member was feeling or thinking would be speculation on my part. And while I may have some opinions, they're just that, so I will keep them to myself. And not add to the gossip pile.
My take away from that event? Was that I have 20 new friends. I honestly believe that people have some opinions about others that really would be changed if they did have the opportunity and the resources to make it to one of these events, so that they truly got to know the people that they're communicating with online.
And they will realize that we all are human. We all have flaws, we all can be misunderstood, and for the most part, we all try our best to "Get it right"..
Daozen
5th July 2019, 08:25
Part of this ever repeating pattern of lather, rinse, repeat that we see with the revolving door Daozen, based on my experience beginning 2010 with the advent of now hidden "Charles, Rulers of the World Material", is how members who begin to see through the oh so subtle technocratic control mechanisms steering general membership behavior and thought patterns that are in place, and dare to start describing what they are beginning to "see', are duly phased out of the machine's rear end even as the new wide eyed recruits are arriving to begin the cycle all over again with the typical rah rah go team!
I don't really blame it any more, it's like blaming a machine for doing what it does. It's cold and impersonal, like don't go feeling around under the lawnmower for a loose bolt while it's running, results for fingers involved are predictable.
I think however what always gets lost in this type of conversation is that said problem is never isolated to one lone "Project", it's systemic, with this one particular "Project" in question being only one tiny spoke amongst many other spokes supporting a grand spinning wheel over great periods of time.
That is very accurate Fred. Yes I don't blame anyone. It is what it is. I'll go edit the more over-the-top sections of my post out now. I just needed to splurge that out. Thanks for listening everyone.
Chris
5th July 2019, 08:28
I can relate to Daozen's long post. Perhaps he needs this as a bit of therapy after the way he was treated over there. It took me quite a long time to get over the way I was treated as well. It is not pleasant to be excluded from a community for simply being who you are.
It is the online equivalent of the village deciding you're a troublemaker and forcing you to go into exile into the wilderness. I was only a member for a month or so, but it was painful enough. I can imagine it is far worse after being part of a community for a decade. I do think that many of these forums abuse the ban button a bit too readily. Unless someone is genuinely behaving in a threatening or disruptive manner, their right to free speech and having an opinion of their own should be respected.
I have noticed that both the quality and quantity of posts has gone downhill over at PA lately. I used to check in regularly, but there's barely any interesting discussions going on right now. It is perhaps a sign of the times that serious discussion forums are in decline whereas superficial social media BS is on the rise.
Daozen
5th July 2019, 08:58
Cheers Chris. Yeah, just got to get all those dusty feelings out in the open. In California, when they want to de-stress, they go hit pillows and scream, I heard. I prefer to just write it out. To be clear, I did ask to leave. Did it very quietly and dignified at first. But they refused, said they'd "consider my decision", then baited me. It's all in the Google Doc I linked, post by post. No point going over it again, it'll just bore you all. So I asked to leave. But the way it was done... accepting an apology letter then banning me before I could post anything. Ooooosh. Executive privilege was used again and again. There's no rulebook there. No accountability, no oversight. It's all just dark, autocratic decisions from behind the scenes. I just, literally feel as if parts of my soul are tied up there, and I need to extricate them somehow. And yes, it's like a bizarre Stepford village if you break the many, many unspoken rules. There are good mods there, some of them. I won't embarrass them by naming them. But they know who they are.
But oh well. That's life. At least they are hosting our content, and we all contributed to a great library of knowledge. So it's all good. And it's a sunny day. So who cares anymore? Life goes on and you learn. It's all just a learning journey.
So no hard feelings Bill.
P.S. Bill. The Earth is flat. Flat as a pancake.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/9912962-3x2-940x627.jpg
Aragorn
5th July 2019, 11:06
P.S. Bill. The Earth is flat. Flat as a pancake.
Please tell me you're not serious about that. :ttr:
Dreamtimer
5th July 2019, 14:26
... I do think that many of these forums abuse the ban button a bit too readily. Unless someone is genuinely behaving in a threatening or disruptive manner, their right to free speech and having an opinion of their own should be respected.
I have noticed that both the quality and quantity of posts has gone downhill over at PA lately. I used to check in regularly, but there's barely any interesting discussions going on right now. It is perhaps a sign of the times that serious discussion forums are in decline whereas superficial social media BS is on the rise.
I have been visiting less as well lately, although, honestly, the original reason I would go back to PA were threads which were originally started by Gio. They were always interesting and informative and had conversations going on.
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