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Aragorn
25th December 2017, 19:59
Exactly one week ago, I posted this thread here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11802-Finally-The-Pentagon-Admits-To-Multi-Million-Dollar-Investigation-Into-UFOs) with a mainstream news article that seemed to carry the spirit of a preliminary and very careful attempt at official UFO disclosure. But now, after a few days of silence regarding this topic, there's already a follow-up, in the form of yet another mainstream news article (http://www.newsweek.com/ufo-existence-proven-beyond-reasonable-doubt-says-former-head-pentagon-alien-758293) with an open admission from the head of the Pentagon task force that was investigating UFOs from 2007 until 2012. ;)






http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/full/public/2017/12/17/ufo-sightings-pentagon-program-aliens.JPG

A rotating “glowing aura” traveling at high speeds was captured from a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet. The existence of UFOs has been
“proved beyond reasonable doubt,” according the head of the secret Pentagon program that analyzed the mysterious aircrafts.


Source: Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/ufo-existence-proven-beyond-reasonable-doubt-says-former-head-pentagon-alien-758293)



The existence of UFOs had been “proved beyond reasonable doubt,” according the head of the secret Pentagon program that analyzed the mysterious aircrafts.

In an interview with British broadsheet The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/23/existence-ufos-proved-beyond-reasonable-doubt-says-former-pentagon/) published on Saturday, Luis Elizondo told the newspaper of the sightings, “In my opinion, if this was a court of law, we have reached the point of ‘beyond reasonable doubt.’”

“I hate to use the term UFO but that’s what we’re looking at,” he added. “I think it’s pretty clear this is not us, and it’s not anyone else, so no one has to ask questions where they’re from.”

Elizondo led the U.S. Defense Department’s Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, investigating evidence of UFOs and alien life, from 2007 to 2012, when it was shuttered.

Its existence was first reported by The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html) last week.

Elizondo was not able to discuss specifics of the program. But he told The Telegraph that there had been “lots” of UFO sightings and witnesses interviewed during the program’s five years.

Investigators pinpointed geographical “hot spots” that were sometimes near nuclear facilities and power plants. They also observed trends among the aircrafts. including lack of flight surfaces on the objects and extreme maneuverability, Elizondo told The Telegraph.

“There was never any display of hostility, but the way they maneuvered, in ways no one else in the world had, you have to be conscious something could happen,” he said.

Despite Pentagon funding running out in 2012, Elizondo oversaw UFO work for another five years before resigning in October 2017 out of frustration with the secrecy of the investigations. He had pushed for videos of the possible alien sightings to be made public so people could see the footage.

In his resignation letter to Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, Elizondo asked, “Why aren’t we spending more time and effort on this issue? There remains a vital need to ascertain capability and intent of these phenomena for the benefit of the armed forces and the nation.”

Elizondo told The Telegraph he’d like to see someone prop up the probe again.

“I’d say bolster the program. We want NASA to find life on different planets, but we have highly educated pilots here, and they’re seeing something they can't understand.”


Source: Newsweek (http://www.newsweek.com/ufo-existence-proven-beyond-reasonable-doubt-says-former-head-pentagon-alien-758293)

The One
26th December 2017, 12:33
Here he is on video below :chrs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4hQY97nCIg

Aragorn
26th December 2017, 13:32
Here he is on video below :chrs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4hQY97nCIg


What I'm seeing there in the reaction of the mainstream media and the political world is disappointing, but not exactly unexpected. The news comes out of the blue that we're not alone in the universe and that Those Others™ are regularly paying us talking monkeys a visit, and the shockwave generates a cognitive dissonance and post-traumatic stress disorder in the depraved and cynical minds of the mainstream media.

"OMG, this is real?" in combination with "We've been ridiculing this stuff for decades, so what are we gonna do now?" And from there on, you get three types of reactions:


"This research too expensive. We should be spending that money elsewhere." Except that they've been spending money that was better spent elsewhere on things that they shouldn't have spent it on in the first place, like invading sovereign nations and/or overthrowing said nations' internal governments in the spirit of capitalism and US Exceptionalism, um, I mean, freedom. :p Because they sure aren't spending that money on feeding the poor. What those politicians are really saying when they object to the financial expenses made in this field of research is "We don't want to be confronted with how wrong we've been, so make it go away."


"Let's continue ridiculing it, just as we've always done, and then maybe it'll fade away." This was the reaction of the Fox News talking heads at the end of the video, in which the blonde seated in the middle just had to go and emphasize the blonde stereotype. "I'm not generally interested in this subject. I like wars and things closer to home" — loosely paraphrased.


"Let's not talk about it and let's pretend that this isn't actually happening." That's what we're seeing here in Europe now — or at least, on the mainland. Even though there was coverage of the first "disclosure" — even if only out of sensationalism — this second disclosure from the former head of the Pentagon team that investigated UFOs between 2007 and 2011 has not made the mainstream news over here. The Telegraph however — which is a British newspaper — did cover the interview. It could be my imagination, but I have the impression that the British are and have always been far more open-minded about this subject than mainland Europeans — even from before Brexit. :p


Cognitive dissonance all over. They can't handle the truth, because it upsets their little, self-contained reality bubble of make-believe. :fpalm:

Chuckie
26th December 2017, 18:53
Some are still ridiculing...but some talking heads aren't going to joke anymore. I've been walking around my brother's home saying 'they're here' and everybody thinks I'm crazy. But anyway, they're here!

Aragorn
26th December 2017, 19:42
Some are still ridiculing...but some talking heads aren't going to joke anymore. I've been walking around my brother's home saying 'they're here' and everybody thinks I'm crazy. But anyway, they're here!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOiOFxMwD9s


:onthequite:

boja
26th December 2017, 19:58
Although it's disappointing, I would guess that (here in England),
less than 1 in 100 people are aware of this "soft disclosure".

Also, out of these people, it seems that very few are even interested !!

Sad to think that hardly anybody cares about what is arguably the most important fact
learned by the human race so far. That we are not alone, and all the consequences.

Chuckie
26th December 2017, 20:01
absolutely, it's crazy...I've heard talking heads say they have no real interest...no real interest? Now that's brain dead!

boja
27th December 2017, 06:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCNVGEDoY-I

GEORGE KNAPP interviewed by LINDA MOULTON-HOWE & JOHN BURROUGHS regarding the latest "soft disclosure" in December 2017.

It appears that George Knapp knows more than he can disclose about this subject.
Mainly info that he has learned from BOB BIGELOW, who has been government funded to investigate.
I would suggest that these guys are the ones to watch and listen to.

Dumpster Diver
27th December 2017, 15:19
Yawn...:tea:

Dreamtimer
29th December 2017, 15:33
I'm still getting used to this. Dolan on CBS. Jeez.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf1081wn1EQ

Aragorn
29th December 2017, 15:37
I'm still getting used to this. Dolan on CBS. Jeez.

You beat me to it — I was about to post this video myself. :p

Dumpster Diver
29th December 2017, 16:16
Dolan? on CBS? I'm waking up again!

...next thing we'll see Trump's 10000 secret indictment's resulting in perp walks?

...Killary in an orange jump suit?

...Darth Hatman outed as a Scientologist sexual preditor at the kool-aid stand?

jcocks
29th December 2017, 16:27
Next year should be interesting...

Another thing to ponder... I don't believe they would disclose this stuff if they didn't have to. So possibly something is going on behind the scenes that is making it a necessity?

Aragorn
29th December 2017, 16:31
Next year should be interesting...

Another thing to ponder... I don't believe they would disclose this stuff if they didn't have to. So possibly something is going on behind the scenes that is making it a necessity?

I've been thinking about that myself as well. ;) : Sherlock:

Chuckie
29th December 2017, 20:07
Richard Dolan is an excellent choice for this. He, at least in my opinion, is one of the more professional in the discipline. Steven Greer, as well, if he keeps his 'levitation' experiences under wraps.

Amanda
29th December 2017, 22:15
For the record - I have always believed that we Humans are not the only life form. As a child I would stare at the night sky, in all her splendour and think about all the life there had to be out there.

As for the subject of Intergalactic Visitors and Intergalactic Craft - it is a tightly controlled subject. Think about that critically and deeply if you dare. All media outlets show a dearth of this subject and when they do it is usually ridiculed - not always - but usually. Independent publishers tend to be the only outlets for real discussion and for the sharing of information and evidence from the public. Photographic evidence - well - even I have been published in an Australian magazine. The photographic evidence was given to me and it is compelling to say the least.

People of note who are mentioned within this thread are not all they seem to be. I have conducted my own research and discovered that Moulton-Howe comes from a family who controls a lot of what is going on. Her father ran Skunkworks. Greer boasts of days with presidents et cetera and some of his money making activities leave a lot to be desired.

When it comes to disclosure - I discovered a theory that seems to ring true for me. Maybe not for others but I have had a long interest in this subject. I have friends who have been engaged in dedicated research for many many many years. Anyhoo - the theory runs along the lines that the Geo-Engineering in the sky has an application that will turn the entire atmosphere into one huge movie screen.

The plan is and has always been - to keep a tight leash on the subject. At a planned point in time the application to turn the atmosphere into a movie screen - will see a depiction of an invasion from space. So - when I think about all the 'out of space' monster movies I watched as a child (in black and white - giving away my vintage here) and all the other movies and television/beam ray technology it stands to reason that the dots can be well and truly joined. Well at least for me. I respect all opinions and comments but I truly think that disclosure may come but it will be at a cost.

Why would the cabal/illuminati/whatever disclose now? Why not before? When I think of how only a handful of CEOs control all media outlets - it is easy to realise the control they have over what the global population thinks.

Loads of People have had their own Contact and/or Experience. They don't need to be told - do they??? Disclosure, to me reeks of control.

Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda

NB: Don't forget to factor in all the shills/trolls/disinformation agents - both paid and unpaid. They sit poised at their keyboards ready to debunk and ridicule anyone who dares share information and/or evidence. The chaos that surrounds our 'age of electronic technology' is that proper thinking skills are well and truly required to sort through it all.

Chuckie
29th December 2017, 23:25
Brookings Report - 1960 is the root of much of the hysteria regarding ET...in my opinion. No cabal, no deep state, no illuminati, no nothing beyond a bunch of power players with silly names vying to have the upper hand when it all breaks loose. When it does...no one will have control...the sane world will gather its wits and trudge on forward.

Lemual
30th December 2017, 02:15
One thing I'm always dismayed by is the view that this isn't the most (or at least one of) important subjects for humanity. I understand people have different priorities but if we're going to be even slightly objective surely this is the biggest thing EVER for humanity? The only thing that could possibly be "bigger" is any revelation to do with spirituality/God.

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 02:45
Hi Lemual,

It's almost the same answer wrapped up in the question. If we ask a true ET what their spiritual beliefs are, we can gain very great insight for ourselves by their answer...

Lemual
30th December 2017, 02:49
Hi Lemual,

It's almost the same answer wrapped up in the question. If we ask a true ET what their spiritual beliefs are, we can gain very great insight for ourselves by their answer...

Exactly, it's pretty much a game changer at all levels!

enjoy being
30th December 2017, 04:50
From my cynical window I see the reaction to this so far, is as to be expected.
Except to be added to that list would be some form of distraction event soon after, which would kind of make that past its due date.
This is where it gets interesting, although, the press club announcements, going back in previous decades, should have maybe had more impact going by what one might be suggesting for the present scenario.
In the meantime, a few more examples to be had on the subject of beliefs and world (whirled) views.

enjoy being
30th December 2017, 11:05
5 years has a nice gentle ring to it. I guess that aids the bedding down of the tale for someone.

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 13:00
From my cynical window I see the reaction to this so far, is as to be expected.
Except to be added to that list would be some form of distraction event soon after, which would kind of make that past its due date.
This is where it gets interesting, although, the press club announcements, going back in previous decades, should have maybe had more impact going by what one might be suggesting for the present scenario.
In the meantime, a few more examples to be had on the subject of beliefs and world (whirled) views.

The press club event was a gob smacker to me. It renewed my interest in Ufology...but, I stumbled upon it and most people were not even aware that it had occurred. This event has been brought upon mainstream media and thought. It seems very different circumstances to me.

Aragorn
30th December 2017, 14:56
The press club event was a gob smacker to me. It renewed my interest in Ufology...but, I stumbled upon it and most people were not even aware that it had occurred. This event has been brought upon mainstream media and thought. It seems very different circumstances to me.

There is a poll over at Slashdot about the credibility of this news (https://slashdot.org/poll/3065/how-do-you-explain-former-pentagon-official-luis-elizondos-claim-of-ufos-existence-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt). Slashdot is a US-centric news site and forum — one which allows for anonymous posting and voting, by the way — for geeks, with a predominantly (albeit not exclusively) "US liberal" atmosphere, and I must say that I'm thoroughly disappointed in the manifestation of disbelief and refusal to accept the facts by that crowd.

Even those who accept that Luis Elizondo is telling the truth are of the opinion that UFOs are secret unmanned aerial vehicles from a foreign nation — anything but extraterrestrial craft. And of course, the naysayers go anywhere from stating that Elizondo was probably high on magic mushrooms, to that the object in the video footage from the F-18 is merely a drone of some sorts.

It just boggles the mind. :fpalm:

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 15:02
the 29% that voted for misinformation HAVE to be conservatives... :)

Seriously, though why in the hell would trained pilots (with top secret security clearances "with a need to know" aerial craft) say "What the hell is that?

People just don't bother thinking...Talking about flying blind...it's the human condition of living on auto-pilot. Needless to say, that is a serious problem along with all the others.

Dreamtimer
30th December 2017, 16:34
People ignore things that are right in front of them. Listening to Dr. Gordon and Andrew Marr on the Rogan show, the theme of "this has been in the research" kept coming up. They talked about how it takes 30 years for research to reach the public in terms of practice.

This is cognitive dissonance in action, eh? People can't admit all their snark and self-assuredness was wrong so they just double down. And conservatives talk down on ufo/alien believers all the time. I could write a laundry list of the disparaging comments that have come from family and friends. (not towards me, towards the subject)

And then there are the Russians. Posting anonymously. :ninja::shapeshift::ninja:

Steven Bassett talks about how he thinks Putin would benefit from being the focal point of Disclosure. (I'm gonna find the point where he talks about this and note it)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaSFGtm2UfI

At 1:33 they talk about Medvedev being caught on hot mic saying aliens are real, and how it was reported mostly in Europe.

Aragorn
30th December 2017, 16:54
[...] And conservatives talk down on ufo/alien believers all the time. I could write a laundry list of the disparaging comments that have come from family and friends. (not towards me, towards the subject)

Just for the record, when I mentioned that Slashdot is predominantly "US liberal", that was in no way intended to say that "US conservatives" would be more open-minded. First of all, it was merely intended as a description of Slashdot's audience — in the pre-US-election poll, the vast majority stated that they were going to vote for Hillary — and secondly, I personally consider "US liberals" merely another breed of "US conservatives". ;)

True liberalism is too wise to align itself with party-political bickering, and especially so if both parties — because we all know that no other parties exist than those two, right? :p — are as corrupt as the US Dypocrites™ and the US Repulsicans™. :p

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 17:12
Just for the record, when I mentioned that Slashdot is predominantly "US liberal", that was in no way intended to say that "US conservatives" would be more open-minded. First of all, it was merely intended as a description of Slashdot's audience — in the pre-US-election poll, the vast majority stated that they were going to vote for Hillary — and secondly, I personally consider "US liberals" merely another breed of "US conservatives". ;)

True liberalism is too wise to align itself with party-political bickering, and especially so if both parties — because we all know that no other parties exist than those two, right? :p — are as corrupt as the US Dypocrites™ and the US Repulsicans™. :p

hahahaha, you be funny Aragorn...

boja
30th December 2017, 18:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZkYrSmzt_0

DARK JOURNALIST (Daniel Liszt) is now believing this is all a "psy-op"

MAYBE, we will have to see what happens.

enjoy being
30th December 2017, 20:01
To be fair, the original articles only seem to say that there was a department in existence that investigated reports of ufo. It didn't really say that they found anything. In fact it infers they found nothing as it mentions closing it to make better use of the money.
With the boy that cried wolf dynamic prevalent in the audiences because of such things as NASA's list of great announcements, it is of no surprise that not much reaction has been seen.

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 22:31
no doubt, I'm totally psy-op'd... What am I suppose to do again?

It's obvious this presentation is based on a template...Special Report...woo hoo, can't hardly wait... omigod, spare us all please!

modwiz
30th December 2017, 22:34
The sources for where the 'public' is getting their information scream "project" of some sort. There are no wholesome people involved in this story unfolding and the stench of it is nauseating. A human wishing to be rescued by aliens is a failing human because they have rejected their place in the Universe and their agency on the Earth.

The particular species of humanoid on Earth is far more 'special' than any outside group might even fully comprehend. Unfortunately, the dis-empowerment and breaking of the psyche of too many creates a fertile condition for desiring and wishing for salvation from those 'who know better' than us. Salvation themes are part of the sepsis from the middle-east sky god religions and dominate the psyche of the Anglo-American empire and their past colonial victims.

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 22:59
Perhaps, but speaking for myself, I just want to talk to one about their planet, maybe take a trip there, as one of my co-workers says, 'he wants to see the brochures before he goes...

My biggest dream as a young boy was to be the 1st man on mars...I planned my life around that until reality hit me in the back of the head...Why 'they' would be in any better position to 'save us' than we are ourselves strikes me as a bit of a mystery? There is so much more to the potential exchanges that being saved is dwarfed in importance. In fact, we might actually learn that we CAN save ourselves if we acted as if we had any damn sense.

Chuckie
30th December 2017, 23:06
I'm not going to let anybody dampen my spirits. The way I see it, the more naysayers the better...This just feels different to me...No promises, no spectacuganza, no invading fleets, just plain give me the facts, ma'am. If that is meant as a diversionary tactic...I congratulate for a job damn well done...Just do the research, publish the results and I'll be as happy as a dawg with 2 peepees.

Amanda
30th December 2017, 23:25
Enjoying this thread - great to see the discussion open up. Have attached a link - I may have posted it before but it seems appropriate to share it here. It is worth a look. The Person/People who compiled their research into an ordered and easy to read list have done well!

http://in5d.com/ufos-and-extraterrestrials-in-art-history/

The aspect of being saved by Intergalactic Visitors - is a really interesting point of thinking. So I ask myself: Do I want to be saved by an Intergalactic Visitor?? Saved from what/who/whatever??

What I would really really really like is to interact on a face to face basis. Share information and evidence. Share knowledge. Any help from a Sentient Being who is evolved and has the ability to Teach - now that is a concept I could embrace.


Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda

modwiz
31st December 2017, 00:10
I'm not going to let anybody dampen my spirits. The way I see it, the more naysayers the better...This just feels different to me...No promises, no spectacuganza, no invading fleets, just plain give me the facts, ma'am. If that is meant as a diversionary tactic...I congratulate for a job damn well done...Just do the research, publish the results and I'll be as happy as a dawg with 2 peepees.

Not sure if I am considered a naysayer by you. My words were a long form of the 'Lost In Space" robot saying, "Danger, Will Robinson". Ringing an alarm is not the same as being a naysayer.

Lemual
31st December 2017, 00:36
anything but extraterrestrial craft.

I've always wondered why the ET explanation was such a stretch for people. It actually seems pretty reasonable to me.

Chuckie
31st December 2017, 00:43
Not sure if I am considered a naysayer by you. My words were a long form of the 'Lost In Space" robot saying, "Danger, Will Robinson". Ringing an alarm is not the same as being a naysayer.

:) yeah, I'm with you on that one...

Chuckie
31st December 2017, 00:48
It has occurred to me why this is happening now...it is the result of long term ongoing efforts, BUT, the tipping point is that mainstream media has been maligned so viciously by the current administration and his ostensible political party that MSM finally has had enough. It is national loyalty that has always kept them silent, why they cooperated fully with government to 'help' keep the U.S. safe.

I'm sure they are feeling there is no safety to be had, in fact, I"m sure MSM feels that the MORE information they release to the public now the safer and more secure the U.S will be. Let's hope they don't lose that 'f*ck it' feeling just yet.

Lemual
31st December 2017, 01:21
It is national loyalty that has always kept them silent, why they cooperated fully with government to 'help' keep the U.S. safe.

With the advent of Project Mockingbird (and others we don't know about) I'm not sure it was just loyalty keeping them silent. I'm sure some journalist believe in National secrecy/security (and didn't report certain things due to that) but a lot would have been silenced through ridicule and dissuasion from the aforementioned alphabet soup agency "plants".

I do hope that some in the (ms) media remain recalcitrant and continue to report on this.

Fred Steeves
31st December 2017, 02:17
The sources for where the 'public' is getting their information scream "project" of some sort.

I concur in spades, except being a semi pedant the "p" would be capitalized in "Project". As an aside, I wouldn't leave the Alternative Community's sources of information unblemished either, considering our sources and the public's sources are now seen beginning to blend seamlessly as one.

1935

Lemual
31st December 2017, 02:56
I concur in spades, except being a semi pedant the "p" would be capitalized in "Project". As an aside, I wouldn't leave the Alternative Community's sources of information unblemished either, considering our sources and the public's sources are now seen beginning to blend seamlessly as one.

1935

When it comes to this topic I doubt there are any sources of information that are pristine, well external ones anyway.

Further to this being a "Project", I can't remember what thread it was on but I was discussing the whole Tom Delonge affair and positing that it seemed like some kind of psy-op/distraction. It seems there is at least one character common to both, namely Luis Elizondo.

modwiz
31st December 2017, 03:26
As an aside, I wouldn't leave the Alternative Community's sources of information unblemished either, considering our sources and the public's sources are now seen beginning to blend seamlessly as one.


Agreed, big time. To overcome the opposition, become it. The inner emptiness of the many new ager's has created a vacuum that sucks in anything with little to no discretion. Reading live chats of any ilk, where the public get to display their collective wisdom is too often a pathetic shitshow of turd-flinging monkeys. The turds being memes and phrases used with no comprehension of their meaning. Words tossed around to apeear 'woke'.:fpalm:

Chuckie
31st December 2017, 14:24
I concur in spades, except being a semi pedant the "p" would be capitalized in "Project". As an aside, I wouldn't leave the Alternative Community's sources of information unblemished either, considering our sources and the public's sources are now seen beginning to blend seamlessly as one.

1935

that's a good thing...a dose of reality never hurt anyone...


Agreed, big time. To overcome the opposition, become it. The inner emptiness of the many new ager's has created a vacuum that sucks in anything with little to no discretion. Reading live chats of any ilk, where the public get to display their collective wisdom is too often a pathetic shitshow of turd-flinging monkeys. The turds being memes and phrases used with no comprehension of their meaning. Words tossed around to apeear 'woke'.:fpalm:

Becoming it is a natural progression of 'projection'. It really is not a matter of becoming it, it is the revelation that it is it. Does that sound 'woke' enough... :)


When it comes to this topic I doubt there are any sources of information that are pristine, well external ones anyway.

Further to this being a "Project", I can't remember what thread it was on but I was discussing the whole Tom Delonge affair and positing that it seemed like some kind of psy-op/distraction. It seems there is at least one character common to both, namely Luis Elizondo.

I think what is being lost in the discussion is a point that someone made early on...Tom Delonge Project is irrelevant to the 'event'. It occurred as a result of the New York Times info release, not really anything Delonge or Elizondo did. Perhaps synchronicity in action, perhaps even something that was meant to be.

What is earth shattering to me is the fact that after so many years of 'pretending' there was no official interest, we now know that it was all a cover and that is what is really revelatory. I, for one, can breathe a sigh of relief for many reasons.

donk
31st December 2017, 17:12
The particular species of humanoid on Earth is far more 'special' than any outside group might even fully comprehend. Unfortunately, the dis-empowerment and breaking of the psyche of too many creates a fertile condition for desiring and wishing for salvation from those 'who know better' than us. Salvation themes are part of the sepsis from the middle-east sky god religions and dominate the psyche of the Anglo-American empire and their past colonial victims.

Oh, we're "special" alright...and what makes different from the non-humanoid species here on earth (that we are aware of, ie the rest of the animals and plants) is the way we process and use the information we receive.

Knowing valid information about any "outside groups" is empowering, and programming us to believe that we can only see more self aware species with more information (and more healthy/practical uses of it) as saviors is disempowering.

Someone/something has more information, more useful information...and I think what this thread shows is how well whoever has it has managed to control and shape and it (the information we receive...and don't). It's difficult to discern if a DeLong e or a Greer or any of these characters are (or were) "working" for their own self interest (which possibly may have been service to others originally), or always for some other agency/agenda (knowingly or not), or some combination.

Being unable to determine that, it is even harder to discern any of the information they share (or are allowed to share). When we speak of empowerment (or disempowerment), it is always going to come to a level a faith (if in nothing else, our own discernment). The one thing we can know (and rarely consciously base our thoughts from) is that more often than not, we base what information we believe in on emotions (which are easily manipulated, and often counter to what "subjective reality" would agree upon.

So bringing it back, this is why emotional maturity and self awareness are so crucial...empowering. But projecting on to the rest of the species that it always manifests in a savior paradigm is a generalization, while maybe a little bit useful in approaching this specific subject matter...I think a more useful approach is to look to religious/savior aspects of what we call SCIENCE...authority approved information that is supposedly based more in physical scientific method applied "evidence"

History--or at least my observation of the information that has come into my awareness in this lifetime--has shown that SOMEONE has piles of stuff like they show in the old clip at the beginning of this thread. My heart and mind tell me it would be in the interest of this species that all of it should be shares and discussed with everyone, in order to create a more accurate "science-based" picture. But we have a reality created where it is "known" that whoever has all of it, believes it to be a danger to have it released. And in actuality that IS a real reality, otherwise we would have it.

So there is a very REAL reality where we are limited and disempowered, by beliefs put upon us--mmaybe even by ourselves. Most artistic interpretations of this say we can only release ourselves from this self imposed prison by rising up in revolution and oust the controllers, and in practise this cycle repeats...but with the actual controllers giving the "masses" that the enemy is this or that figurehead leading this or that army...and when the tools are overthrown the rebels just take up those tools' spots, never gaining access to the real empowering information.

Watching this cycle in our "history" and popular entertainment, it is easy to slip into mindset, idea, belief...that something with as much or more info than our controllers will provide it to us in a way we can practically use. There's only so much our inner work and emotional maturity can do. The monkeys aren't escaping the bars of their zoo without help, and if a clever few do, they aren't going to live a free soverign life in this reality without help from some "outside group"...and it doesn't matter if they think those helpers are sky gods or star people. There is a reality we can't "know ourselves" out of escaping.

Chuckie
1st January 2018, 15:00
They're heeeerrrreeee! :) Any updates or thoughts about ET. They sent me a message through my TV a few weeks ago....

I was reading some material yesterday and took a closer look at the people involved in the To the stars academy, I'm actually thinking about investing. I guess some elements of the rank-and-file sense 'evil' in these people?

Chuckie
1st January 2018, 15:24
Oh, we're "special" alright...and what makes different from the non-humanoid species here on earth (that we are aware of, ie the rest of the animals and plants) is the way we process and use the information we receive.

Knowing valid information about any "outside groups" is empowering, and programming us to believe that we can only see more self aware species with more information (and more healthy/practical uses of it) as saviors is disempowering.

Someone/something has more information, more useful information...and I think what this thread shows is how well whoever has it has managed to control and shape and it (the information we receive...and don't). It's difficult to discern if a DeLong e or a Greer or any of these characters are (or were) "working" for their own self interest (which possibly may have been service to others originally), or always for some other agency/agenda (knowingly or not), or some combination.

Being unable to determine that, it is even harder to discern any of the information they share (or are allowed to share). When we speak of empowerment (or disempowerment), it is always going to come to a level a faith (if in nothing else, our own discernment). The one thing we can know (and rarely consciously base our thoughts from) is that more often than not, we base what information we believe in on emotions (which are easily manipulated, and often counter to what "subjective reality" would agree upon.

So bringing it back, this is why emotional maturity and self awareness are so crucial...empowering. But projecting on to the rest of the species that it always manifests in a savior paradigm is a generalization, while maybe a little bit useful in approaching this specific subject matter...I think a more useful approach is to look to religious/savior aspects of what we call SCIENCE...authority approved information that is supposedly based more in physical scientific method applied "evidence"

History--or at least my observation of the information that has come into my awareness in this lifetime--has shown that SOMEONE has piles of stuff like they show in the old clip at the beginning of this thread. My heart and mind tell me it would be in the interest of this species that all of it should be shares and discussed with everyone, in order to create a more accurate "science-based" picture. But we have a reality created where it is "known" that whoever has all of it, believes it to be a danger to have it released. And in actuality that IS a real reality, otherwise we would have it.

So there is a very REAL reality where we are limited and disempowered, by beliefs put upon us--mmaybe even by ourselves. Most artistic interpretations of this say we can only release ourselves from this self imposed prison by rising up in revolution and oust the controllers, and in practise this cycle repeats...but with the actual controllers giving the "masses" that the enemy is this or that figurehead leading this or that army...and when the tools are overthrown the rebels just take up those tools' spots, never gaining access to the real empowering information.

Watching this cycle in our "history" and popular entertainment, it is easy to slip into mindset, idea, belief...that something with as much or more info than our controllers will provide it to us in a way we can practically use. There's only so much our inner work and emotional maturity can do. The monkeys aren't escaping the bars of their zoo without help, and if a clever few do, they aren't going to live a free soverign life in this reality without help from some "outside group"...and it doesn't matter if they think those helpers are sky gods or star people. There is a reality we can't "know ourselves" out of escaping.

Hi Donk,

Something occurred to me...The 'others' might be as inclined to keep eating us as they are to save us. Equally possible perhaps? Have you ever seen Dick Cheney in the "Midnight Meat Train"...

Dreamtimer
1st January 2018, 15:42
The movie sounds awful. Did Cheney have a cameo?

Chuckie
1st January 2018, 15:51
:) no, not really...but he could have starred in it...

as for the movie...yeah, it was very awful, if you can stomach it and are into shock value, that's the movie for you.

Chuckie
1st January 2018, 15:58
I propably should apologize for this, but it is considered a high quality movie and it is about ET though that isn't revealed until late in the movie...I provided the spoiler because it's not likely to appeal beyond anyone with an appreciation of the sick. I've walked out of movies like this if it is only about gratuitous violence...this one isn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHvnWuQQidg

Lemual
2nd January 2018, 05:38
They're heeeerrrreeee! :) Any updates or thoughts about ET. They sent me a message through my TV a few weeks ago....

I was reading some material yesterday and took a closer look at the people involved in the To the stars academy, I'm actually thinking about investing. I guess some elements of the rank-and-file sense 'evil' in these people?

Hopeful but sceptical would be my description. Most Iv'e spoken to think To the Stars is a Psy-op or a Con. I'd love it if it wasn't but I'm reserving judgement for now.

One point on TTS Academy - I was dubious about the whole "media" wing of the organisation. It seemed odd that a company mainly concerned with "aerospace" affairs would be interested in releasing media (movies etc).

Having now seen the lukewarm reception the NYT article got I can actually see that if an organisation wanted to bring this issue to the forefront then a robust media campaign would be in order. I'm still not completely convinced they're on the up and up but if there WAS such a legitimate company with the same goals as stated by TTS then a strong media campaign would be a must.

(I'm still shocked/disappointed that so many people seem so nonchalant about this article and it's implications)

Kathy
2nd January 2018, 12:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UieuNu2vla8
"Streamed live 15 hours ago by DarkJournalist

Exposing the False Disclosure Op!
Dark Journalist Special Report with Gigi Young on The UFO Disclosure Counter Intelligence Psyop by Tom Delonge, Luis Elizondo, Harry Reid, Academy to the Star & The New York Times!"

Lemual
3rd January 2018, 07:58
I'm late to the game with Dark Journalist, I've heard his name around a lot but never watched a video until now.

What's everyone else's opinion of him and/or the quality of his reporting/journalism?

Aragorn
3rd January 2018, 12:05
I'm late to the game with Dark Journalist, I've heard his name around a lot but never watched a video until now.

What's everyone else's opinion of him and/or the quality of his reporting/journalism?

He did a whole series of interviews with Bill Ryan on account of Corey Goode a while ago. Now, Corey's narrative is premium bullshit, but if you're going to cling onto El Sombrero™ as a credible source of information, then you've already lost your credibility as a journalist in my book, and especially so since Mr. Robillard never even cared to hear anyone from the other side of that fence — e.g. Michael Salla, who in spite of his incredible naiveté is still an honorable man, which is more than anyone can say of El Sombrero™.

Long story short, I personally consider the Dark Journalist one more source of meaningless noise in this so-called alternative community — merely another narcissistic talking head, and for that matter, a biased one too. But people's mileage may vary. ;)


:tea:

Dumpster Diver
3rd January 2018, 17:47
I listen to DJ, but as a psyop source.

Again, the cool thing about psyop sources is that they know what the truth is and what is the lie. Untangle the truth, a lot of the rest is truth they must pack in to sell the psyop package.

Chuckie
4th January 2018, 00:45
I'm late to the game with Dark Journalist, I've heard his name around a lot but never watched a video until now.

What's everyone else's opinion of him and/or the quality of his reporting/journalism?

Lizst statements all converge with the general consensus...in any case, you're right, no hoopla...it's a failure by most standards I can think of.

Lemual
4th January 2018, 05:25
but if you're going to cling onto El Sombrero™ as a credible source of information, then you've already lost your credibility as a journalist in my book

Would you say anyone who associates with BR is suspect? (in your opinion)

Further to that, who do you find worthwhile/consistent/believable? (obviously healthy scepticism never goes astray)

All input welcome.


I listen to DJ, but as a psyop source.

Again, the cool thing about psyop sources is that they know what the truth is and what is the lie. Untangle the truth, a lot of the rest is truth they must pack in to sell the psyop package.

What gives you the impression he's a psyop? Is there proof? (not defending him, I'm just wondering)

I wonder sometimes how far the alt community has been infiltrated by the deep state et el.

Aragorn
4th January 2018, 14:19
Would you say anyone who associates with BR is suspect? (in your opinion)

That's a tricky question to answer. I would say that it depends on how and why they associate with him. He obviously has a great deal of fans and worshipers — I believe you yourself have witnessed at least one confrontation between myself and such a worshiper here at The One Truth. Does the name Collidescope ring a bell? :eyebrows: (And she was not the only one, either.)

As a Machiavellian psychopath with a background in Scientology and neuro-linguistic programming — he's also a fan of Werner Erhard and has attended the EST seminars — El Sombrero™ is certainly very skilled at fooling people. At this very moment, Project Avalon has 11'098 members, so I don't think I need saying anything more in that regard.

Now, Richard Dolan is of course another matter. Maybe Richard doesn't care enough about Bill Ryan and his activities to actually know whom he's dealing with, because Dolan is the kind of guy who's more interested in the material than in the personalities behind it. But the Dark Journalist is suspect in and of himself, in my opinion. Look into the guy's background and you'll see what I mean.

Then there are those who very much like rubbing shoulders with El Sombrero™ because they see so much of themselves in him. I'm talking of the usual narcissists here, and I can name a few names, but I'm not going to. They are names that keep on popping up on a regular basis anyway — some perhaps a little less so these days than others, but they're still around.


Further to that, who do you find worthwhile/consistent/believable? (obviously healthy scepticism never goes astray)

Well, I've already mentioned Richard Dolan. Whereas the subject matter of his lectures is concerned, he is to be taken seriously. He conducts his research with great diligence. Likewise, there is Michael Schratt, who was interviewed by Kerry Cassidy a few times. These guys are historians, and they can back up everything they say with evidence.

Among the credible witnesses/whistleblowers, I also count the very humble but very sincere Clifford Stone. You look at one interview with or presentation by the guy, and you instinctively know he's telling the truth as he knows it. I do not feel the same reassurance of verity when I hear Bob Dean talk. With all due respect for his age and his declining health, he comes across as pretty full of himself, and you can also feel that he's not telling you all that he knows. And that then must also by definition include a contemplation of the question whether that which he does talk about would actually be truthful.

Someone whom I do not trust (anymore) is Joseph P. Farrell. There's a little red light popping on in the back of my head every time I hear the guy talk. I also don't consider David Wilcock a reliable source of information, and specifically so because he appears to be caught up in his own woo-woo factor. He so desperately wants to believe that he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, just as he also so desperately wants to believe that the aliens Corey Goode talks about would be the Ra entity of the Law Of One material.

Alfred Lambremont Webre is even worse than David Wilcock, and by a huge margin too. He's not a researcher, but instead he's just someone with an enormous dose of paranoia, a strong woo-woo factor, a lust for sensationalism beyond belief, and all he does is reiterate what he's heard elsewhere without even vetting the material. And then he writes books about it and sells them.

But I'll tell you whom you should have faith in: yourself. ;) Don't listen to all these talking heads. Listen to yourself. Use your intuition. ;)


I wonder sometimes how far the alt community has been infiltrated by the deep state et el.

Not quite as far as the so-called "alt community" itself believes. After all, there is no need to. The "alt community" is perfectly capable of deceiving itself. It is all too easy for all too many people to just take someone's word at face value and/or misconstrue perfectly natural phenomena and scientific facts, rather than to actually get off their butts and do some research that doesn't include any tabloid websites or questionable YouTube sources.

What the vast majority of the so-called "alt community" needs to do, first and foremost, is stop thinking that they would be some kind of an enlightened elite just because they happen to believe in extraterrestrial visitations and/or conspiracy theories. It doesn't work like that.

So long as people thoughtlessly keep on consuming information without actually working on themselves — and by this, I am not talking about balancing one's chakras, raising one's vibrations or whatever other hollow New Age meme applies — things are never going to change. What's the difference between watching the mainstream news on television and listening to the umpteenth video from Kerry Cassidy and the likes?

That's right: nothing at all. It's all bull. As the late Mahatma Gandhi said, you must be the change you wish to see in the world — or become it, if you aren't already. There's no point in sitting in front of a screen and listening to some talking head. If you want to change the world — "you" in the impersonal, proverbial sense — then you have to start with yourself. Don't wait for the other person to do it, because you'd be waiting until the cows come home.

You are the center of your own universe, and so that is what you have to go on. And you should also not wait for anyone else to catch on, because then too, you would be waiting for the cows to come home. Just be the change, for the sake of being it, regardless of whether others pick up on it or not. Because then at least you know that you're doing The Right Thing™, and for The Right Reasons™. ;)

Dumpster Diver
4th January 2018, 14:31
Would you say anyone who associates with BR is suspect? (in your opinion)

Further to that, who do you find worthwhile/consistent/believable? (obviously healthy scepticism never goes astray)

All input welcome.



What gives you the impression he's a psyop? Is there proof? (not defending him, I'm just wondering)

I wonder sometimes how far the alt community has been infiltrated by the deep state et el.

Since Bill Ryan, a Scientologist, is running a psyop at the kool-aid stand, and DJ ran a 6 part hit piece against CG along with the cat in the Hat, it makes sense, but actually there is more math behind it than that. Add in Greer, a CIA operative outed by Andy Basiago, and combined operations against CG/DW over the past year. The objective is to get the alt-world community to look away from the chaotic sun, coming sun flash, earth pole shift, ascension, and the global warming/solar system warming coverup using chem trails, etc.

Lemual
5th January 2018, 03:49
That's a tricky question to answer. I would say that it depends on how and why they associate with him. He obviously has a great deal of fans and worshipers — I believe you yourself have witnessed at least one confrontation between myself and such a worshiper here at The One Truth. Does the name Collidescope ring a bell? :eyebrows: (And she was not the only one, either.)

As a Machiavellian psychopath with a background in Scientology and neuro-linguistic programming — he's also a fan of Werner Erhard and has attended the EST seminars — El Sombrero™ is certainly very skilled at fooling people. At this very moment, Project Avalon has 11'098 members, so I don't think I need saying anything more in that regard.

Now, Richard Dolan is of course another matter. Maybe Richard doesn't care enough about Bill Ryan and his activities to actually know whom he's dealing with, because Dolan is the kind of guy who's more interested in the material than in the personalities behind it. But the Dark Journalist is suspect in and of himself, in my opinion. Look into the guy's background and you'll see what I mean.

Then there are those who very much like rubbing shoulders with El Sombrero™ because they see so much of themselves in him. I'm talking of the usual narcissists here, and I can name a few names, but I'm not going to. They are names that keep on popping up on a regular basis anyway — some perhaps a little less so these days than others, but they're still around.



Well, I've already mentioned Richard Dolan. Whereas the subject matter of his lectures is concerned, he is to be taken seriously. He conducts his research with great diligence. Likewise, there is Michael Schratt, who was interviewed by Kerry Cassidy a few times. These guys are historians, and they can back up everything they say with evidence.

Among the credible witnesses/whistleblowers, I also count the very humble but very sincere Clifford Stone. You look at one interview with or presentation by the guy, and you instinctively know he's telling the truth as he knows it. I do not feel the same reassurance of verity when I hear Bob Dean talk. With all due respect for his age and his declining health, he comes across as pretty full of himself, and you can also feel that he's not telling you all that he knows. And that then must also by definition include a contemplation of the question whether that which he does talk about would actually be truthful.

Someone whom I do not trust (anymore) is Joseph P. Farrell. There's a little red light popping on in the back of my head every time I hear the guy talk. I also don't consider David Wilcock a reliable source of information, and specifically so because he appears to be caught up in his own woo-woo factor. He so desperately wants to believe that he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, just as he also so desperately wants to believe that the aliens Corey Goode talks about would be the Ra entity of the Law Of One material.

Alfred Lambremont Webre is even worse than David Wilcock, and by a huge margin too. He's not a researcher, but instead he's just someone with an enormous dose of paranoia, a strong woo-woo factor, a lust for sensationalism beyond belief, and all he does is reiterate what he's heard elsewhere without even vetting the material. And then he writes books about it and sells them.

But I'll tell you whom you should have faith in: yourself. ;) Don't listen to all these talking heads. Listen to yourself. Use your intuition. ;)



Not quite as far as the so-called "alt community" itself believes. After all, there is no need to. The "alt community" is perfectly capable of deceiving itself. It is all too easy for all too many people to just take someone's word at face value and/or misconstrue perfectly natural phenomena and scientific facts, rather than to actually get off their butts and do some research that doesn't include any tabloid websites or questionable YouTube sources.

What the vast majority of the so-called "alt community" needs to do, first and foremost, is stop thinking that they would be some kind of an enlightened elite just because they happen to believe in extraterrestrial visitations and/or conspiracy theories. It doesn't work like that.

So long as people thoughtlessly keep on consuming information without actually working on themselves — and by this, I am not talking about balancing one's chakras, raising one's vibrations or whatever other hollow New Age meme applies — things are never going to change. What's the difference between watching the mainstream news on television and listening to the umpteenth video from Kerry Cassidy and the likes?

That's right: nothing at all. It's all bull. As the late Mahatma Gandhi said, you must be the change you wish to see in the world — or become it, if you aren't already. There's no point in sitting in front of a screen and listening to some talking head. If you want to change the world — "you" in the impersonal, proverbial sense — then you have to start with yourself. Don't wait for the other person to do it, because you'd be waiting until the cows come home.

You are the center of your own universe, and so that is what you have to go on. And you should also not wait for anyone else to catch on, because then too, you would be waiting for the cows to come home. Just be the change, for the sake of being it, regardless of whether others pick up on it or not. Because then at least you know that you're doing The Right Thing™, and for The Right Reasons™. ;)

Above and beyond answer Aragorn! Thank you very much. As for all the points you made I agree with pretty much everything. Didn't know about Michael Schratt so also thanks for that one.

As for Dolan, I hold him in pretty high esteem. Not that he's beyond question (no one is) but I find his writings well researched and referenced. Another name I'll add (and feel free to add your opinions of him) is Nick Pope. His talks seem pretty "dry" but he seems to stick to what he knows. He is ex Govt though so that needs to be taken into consideration.

I figured the same re the "alt community". It seems lots of people are willing to throw around the psy-op label when an ill informed narcissist (or useful idiot maybe) is an equally good explanation.

Again thanks for the huge response :thup:

Dumpster Diver
5th January 2018, 04:02
That's a tricky question to answer. I would say that it depends on how and why they associate with him. He obviously has a great deal of fans and worshipers — I believe you yourself have witnessed at least one confrontation between myself and such a worshiper here at The One Truth. Does the name Collidescope ring a bell? :eyebrows: (And she was not the only one, either.)

As a Machiavellian psychopath with a background in Scientology and neuro-linguistic programming — he's also a fan of Werner Erhard and has attended the EST seminars — El Sombrero™ is certainly very skilled at fooling people. At this very moment, Project Avalon has 11'098 members, so I don't think I need saying anything more in that regard.

Now, Richard Dolan is of course another matter. Maybe Richard doesn't care enough about Bill Ryan and his activities to actually know whom he's dealing with, because Dolan is the kind of guy who's more interested in the material than in the personalities behind it. But the Dark Journalist is suspect in and of himself, in my opinion. Look into the guy's background and you'll see what I mean.

Then there are those who very much like rubbing shoulders with El Sombrero™ because they see so much of themselves in him. I'm talking of the usual narcissists here, and I can name a few names, but I'm not going to. They are names that keep on popping up on a regular basis anyway — some perhaps a little less so these days than others, but they're still around.



Well, I've already mentioned Richard Dolan. Whereas the subject matter of his lectures is concerned, he is to be taken seriously. He conducts his research with great diligence. Likewise, there is Michael Schratt, who was interviewed by Kerry Cassidy a few times. These guys are historians, and they can back up everything they say with evidence.

Among the credible witnesses/whistleblowers, I also count the very humble but very sincere Clifford Stone. You look at one interview with or presentation by the guy, and you instinctively know he's telling the truth as he knows it. I do not feel the same reassurance of verity when I hear Bob Dean talk. With all due respect for his age and his declining health, he comes across as pretty full of himself, and you can also feel that he's not telling you all that he knows. And that then must also by definition include a contemplation of the question whether that which he does talk about would actually be truthful.

Someone whom I do not trust (anymore) is Joseph P. Farrell. There's a little red light popping on in the back of my head every time I hear the guy talk. I also don't consider David Wilcock a reliable source of information, and specifically so because he appears to be caught up in his own woo-woo factor. He so desperately wants to believe that he's the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, just as he also so desperately wants to believe that the aliens Corey Goode talks about would be the Ra entity of the Law Of One material.

Alfred Lambremont Webre is even worse than David Wilcock, and by a huge margin too. He's not a researcher, but instead he's just someone with an enormous dose of paranoia, a strong woo-woo factor, a lust for sensationalism beyond belief, and all he does is reiterate what he's heard elsewhere without even vetting the material. And then he writes books about it and sells them.

But I'll tell you whom you should have faith in: yourself. ;) Don't listen to all these talking heads. Listen to yourself. Use your intuition. ;)



Not quite as far as the so-called "alt community" itself believes. After all, there is no need to. The "alt community" is perfectly capable of deceiving itself. It is all too easy for all too many people to just take someone's word at face value and/or misconstrue perfectly natural phenomena and scientific facts, rather than to actually get off their butts and do some research that doesn't include any tabloid websites or questionable YouTube sources.

What the vast majority of the so-called "alt community" needs to do, first and foremost, is stop thinking that they would be some kind of an enlightened elite just because they happen to believe in extraterrestrial visitations and/or conspiracy theories. It doesn't work like that.

So long as people thoughtlessly keep on consuming information without actually working on themselves — and by this, I am not talking about balancing one's chakras, raising one's vibrations or whatever other hollow New Age meme applies — things are never going to change. What's the difference between watching the mainstream news on television and listening to the umpteenth video from Kerry Cassidy and the likes?

That's right: nothing at all. It's all bull. As the late Mahatma Gandhi said, you must be the change you wish to see in the world — or become it, if you aren't already. There's no point in sitting in front of a screen and listening to some talking head. If you want to change the world — "you" in the impersonal, proverbial sense — then you have to start with yourself. Don't wait for the other person to do it, because you'd be waiting until the cows come home.

You are the center of your own universe, and so that is what you have to go on. And you should also not wait for anyone else to catch on, because then too, you would be waiting for the cows to come home. Just be the change, for the sake of being it, regardless of whether others pick up on it or not. Because then at least you know that you're doing The Right Thing™, and for The Right Reasons™. ;)

Nicely put. You’ve ever so much more patience to write out such. I really can’t get much more than a few paragraphs these days.

Lemual
5th January 2018, 04:10
Andy Basiago

I've heard this name around a bit, do you rate him?

I do try to use my own discernment when researching people/ideas but it's great to have a group like you guys, with a heck of a lot of experience, helping me wade though the muck as it where.

Dumpster Diver
5th January 2018, 04:27
I've heard this name around a bit, do you rate him?

I do try to use my own discernment when researching people/ideas but it's great to have a group like you guys, with a heck of a lot of experience, helping me wade though the muck as it where.

I think Basiago is on the correct side, i.e. not an operative or controlled. But as a MILAB, I think a lot of his memories are suspect as in a fair amount of his memory is overwritten, and he owns up to this fact. Humans are on Mars, a number of Hams have triangulated voice signals from there, so that correlates. His time travels stories are crazy, but I have alternate corroboration of such.

In my work, everything goes back to what I have seen/experienced myself. I use information found in forums like these as vectors to study, but in the end, each fact must check out against things I have seen or derived in my own experience. I would advise you to do the same. Don’t believe what I say, verify it for yourself. It is a lot of work, though.

Lemual
5th January 2018, 05:11
Don’t believe what I say, verify it for yourself. It is a lot of work, though.

I try to as much as I can, it can be hard to find the time. As such I'm here picking the brains of my fellow travellers! :)

Dumpster Diver
5th January 2018, 05:39
I try to as much as I can, it can be hard to find the time. As such I'm here picking the brains of my fellow travellers! :)

You have the rest of your life, what else are you gonna do with it? :dan:

boja
19th November 2018, 12:07
Default ADAM Research Project

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1v44NM9ls


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1v44NM9ls


Observations On Potential UAP/UFO Material In Possession for The ADAM Research Project

This could be labelled as "more drip feed from TTSA"
HOWEVER, it is noticeable from the following video below (published 30 AUG 2018)
that LUIS ELIZONDO is now much more self-assured and ASSERTIVE.

He is basically CONTROLLING THE NARRATIVE and saying that by about a year from now, much more info will be available publicly - and we must be patient.

He has become the "US version of Nick Pope".


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3r6SmrCUM0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3r6SmrCUM0


It is also noticeable that NICK POPE has "sync'd up with Luis & TTSA",
and has COMPLETELY CHANGED his stance on the subject as shown in the video below (published 20 JUL 2018).

Now he's saying instead of "OF NO DEFENCE SIGNIFICANCE", that everybody should be "LOOKING OUT FOR & REPORTING" these UFOs as they are "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT" !! - Choosing his words very carefully, just like Luis admits to doing so.


Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbZrKrZ2UIk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbZrKrZ2UIk


Their audacity is GALLING after 70 years, but this looks to be the "disclosure program" that they are going to roll out.
(Couple this with the newly released info on 11 SEP 2018 about Skinwalker Ranch in JEREMY CORBELL's film, which must have been approved by "The powers that be")

Somewhere around July / Aug 2018 (perhaps someone can find it, I can't find it now), Luis actually said -

"EITHER JAN / FEB 2019, MORE VIDEOS WILL BE RELEASED WHICH WILL ENABLE US TO HAVE A BETTER CONVERSATION ON THE SUBJECT."

Chuckie
26th April 2019, 22:49
US Navy introducing guidelines for pilots to report UFO sightings

By Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon Correspondent

Washington (CNN)Navy pilots who think they may have seen unidentified flying objects will now have a detailed means of reporting unexplainable events so the military can keep track of what may, or may not, be happening.

"The Navy is updating and formalizing the process by which reports of any such suspected incursions can be made to the cognizant authorities," they said in a statement.
"A new message to the fleet that will detail the steps for reporting is in draft," the statement added.

The Navy does not think that aliens have been flying in US airspace, one Navy official told CNN. But there have been "a number of reports of unauthorized and/or unidentified aircraft entering various military-controlled ranges and designated air space in recent years," according to the statement.

"These kinds on incursions can be both a security risk and pose a safety hazard for both Navy and Air Force aviation. For safety and security concerns, the Navy and the USAF takes these reports very seriously and investigates each and every report."

The new policy will standardize how incidents are reported, and what radar or other data may be gathered that the military can store long term for further analysis, the navy official said.
Separately a senior military official told CNN that some of the recent sightings are highly classified military aviation programs undergoing testing in the western United States.

Because the sightings have garnered public attention, senior Navy intelligence officials have briefed Congress, as well as aviators on the safety hazards.
The Pentagon has intermittently over the decades funded various efforts to evaluate unexplained incursions and phenomena, but the last official effort was shuttered in 2012.

A former Pentagon official, who led that program and resigned in protest when it was ended, told CNN's Erin Burnett in 2017 "that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone."
Luis Elizondo made clear he could not speak on behalf of the government, but strongly implied there was evidence that stopped him from ruling out the possibility that alien aircraft visited Earth.

"These aircraft -- we'll call them aircraft -- are displaying characteristics that are not currently within the US inventory nor in any foreign inventory that we are aware of," Elizondo said of objects they researched.

He said the program sought to identify what had been seen, either through tools or eyewitness reports, and then "ascertain and determine if that information is a potential threat to national security."
"We found a lot," Elizondo said.

The former Pentagon official said they identified "anomalous" aircraft that were "seemingly defying the laws of aerodynamics."
"Things that don't have any obvious flight services, any obvious forms of propulsion, and maneuvering in ways that include extreme maneuverability beyond, I would submit, the healthy G-forces of a human or anything biological," Elizondo said.

Octopus Garden
18th July 2021, 21:51
This is, hands down, the best source of new information about the phenomenon I have found recently. Ross Coulthart is an award winning Australian journalist and Project Unity appears to be an excellent source for this topic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-xW8YsXKU

Octopus Garden
18th July 2021, 21:56
One of the more recent Lue Elizondo videos. Washington Post is covering it. Fascinating!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcH5nuqa-0w

Dreamtimer
19th July 2021, 12:27
Thanks, OG. :thup:

Octopus Garden
19th July 2021, 19:52
Thanks, OG. :thup:


:abduct: You are so welcome, Lucid one!

Silly Wabbit
18th May 2022, 15:23
Watched a video this morning from a conference regarding disclosure... I actually started the video lastnight and woke up several times, having to rewind it, as I kept falling asleep..

It was that bad...

To say I was disappointed is a serious understatement. Who are these people, and what are they even doing on stage? I didn't recognize a single person on their poster... And the video I watched was an absolute trainwreck.. It looked like a David Wilcock ego fest, with a new face... Most of their images on screen were of them getting to locations such as Egypt, and taking selfies as proof that their travels somehow make them more knowledgeable than those listening to him. As if that would prove their lecture had any content in it.

It was sad, and I felt bad for anyone who paid to see that.

The end result of their lecture was essentially nothing more than a compilation of what we can (and already have) seen freely on youtube videos, with no added content whatsoever.

So my conclusion is, we will never get real disclosure, or at least any meaningful disclosure... and those on the scene are not progressing, they are degenerating the topic to absolute garbage...

I hate to be so negative, but it is just ridiculous at this point. Hats off to those who do share real information... As they are few and far in between these days.

Fred Steeves
18th May 2022, 16:12
The end result of their lecture was essentially nothing more than a compilation of what we can (and already have) seen freely on youtube videos, with no added content whatsoever.

So my conclusion is, we will never get real disclosure, or at least any meaningful disclosure... and those on the scene are not progressing, they are degenerating the topic to absolute garbage...

It's been my observation for some time now that the ufo field is a shit show by design. And I'll tell you what, anyone waiting around for any kind of real disclosure, is really just waiting around to be had 6 ways to Sunday.

Chuckie
18th May 2022, 21:44
Watched a video this morning from a conference regarding disclosure... I actually started the video lastnight and woke up several times, having to rewind it, as I kept falling asleep..

It was that bad...

To say I was disappointed is a serious understatement. Who are these people, and what are they even doing on stage? I didn't recognize a single person on their poster... And the video I watched was an absolute trainwreck.. It looked like a David Wilcock ego fest, with a new face... Most of their images on screen were of them getting to locations such as Egypt, and taking selfies as proof that their travels somehow make them more knowledgeable than those listening to him. As if that would prove their lecture had any content in it.

It was sad, and I felt bad for anyone who paid to see that.

The end result of their lecture was essentially nothing more than a compilation of what we can (and already have) seen freely on youtube videos, with no added content whatsoever.

So my conclusion is, we will never get real disclosure, or at least any meaningful disclosure... and those on the scene are not progressing, they are degenerating the topic to absolute garbage...

I hate to be so negative, but it is just ridiculous st this point. Hats off to those who do share real information... As they are few and far in between these days.

Hi Wabbit, A couple of years ago my daughter and I went to a UFO convention mostly to see Nick Pope. I forgot to mention him as an honorable source of info. He showed some pretty striking photos and remarked how they are blurred when shown to the public.

He almost lost me when he started thanking Tucker Carlson but he did add "yeah, I know he's an asshole" in such a nice way, I gave him a pass. :)

Silly Wabbit
20th May 2022, 03:07
It just seems that prior to my discovery of the community, there were real whistleblowers... Ones who spoke of things like craft, technology, creating simulators to fly such technology, etc... And while I knew we had the technology to have tech operated by the mind alone? I fully expected that to be the next wave of disclosure... The newest tech...

But instead, we are getting those lost in woo woo, and neglecting everything in between.. Wars off world, secret programs that involve astral battles in the mind alone, (which highly resemble video games of their era)... and the entire scene has become a heaping pile o'---- in my opinion.

There are the few, who claim everyone whom has ever died- that was in any way "In the field" MUST HAVE BEEN BUMPED OFF... Including those in their 90's.. It's sad... There are a very few still trying to direct narratives... such as "all et are friendly..." and those that will have you believe there are none at all..

I do still have faith in a few, based upon my own knowledge... but the list is very short. And sadly there may have been a few that were reputable to start, but have taken a downward spiral for content and "New Material" to keep their finances afloat...

I think the days when people gathered in the desert, in lawn chairs for FREE, to compare notes... were the last to have any genuine true knowledge to learn and share.n And we shoul go back to THOSE days, if we hope to get any true knowledge...

I have been shown images that most never get to see... And would agree, those are absolutely kept from the masses.. As a respectful person, who keeps my own word, I will not discuss those things I was politely asked not to share.

It's hard to feel comfortable in a community, where supposed whistle blowers are telling tall tales, when you yourself have seen far more with your own eyes... I suppose in my disappointment, I can only say, I expected more considering the vast sums of money these events rake in.

Where have all the heros gone? I know it sounds cliche', but I suppose that would be my question to those in the field peddling nonsense, have you no shame? No sense of responsibility for the crap you peddle? I suppose that would fall upon deaf ears, when people are more concerned about where their name appears in the "Credits" than what they're actually selling to the public... (Quite literally.. as Entertainment)

It cannot even be considered entertainment at this point... It's that pathetic... I find more "information" within the claims of those experiencing such things, than among any of those that claim to have actual knowledge about such things... And some of these people worked for "Intelligence agencies"? HAHAHA... They haven't made me disbelieve, they have merely made themselves look as ridiculous as the next.

Sorry, rant over... Felt comfortable there for a minute.. just venting.. I wish more would stop watching nonsense just to talk about what nonsense it is as it is perpetuating the need for those individuals to produce more fecal matter...

Dreamtimer
20th May 2022, 03:18
I can only say, I expected more considering the vast sums of money these events rake in.


I'll posit that's why they become useless. They're about money, not disclosure. It's become another industry for grift. So take what's already out there, gussy it up, and resell it.

It sucks how desires for profit spoil so many things.

sourcetruth
28th May 2022, 01:05
It is good that UFOs are finally being taken seriously by society. For too long then there has been an ignorant attitude towards the phenomena in society, especially by those that call themselves skeptics. Paranormal and spiritual phenomena as a whole should be taken more seriously.

Aragorn
28th May 2022, 01:44
It is good that UFOs are finally being taken seriously by society. For too long then there has been an ignorant attitude towards the phenomena in society, especially by those that call themselves skeptics. Paranormal and spiritual phenomena as a whole should be taken more seriously.

I think that the reason why most people are skeptic about this subject is that if it were proven true with unmistakable evidence that it is either extraterrestrial or supernatural, then these people would see their whole belief and value systems fall to the ground in pieces. Because then all of a sudden our petty differences here on Earth wouldn't matter anymore, and then our complacency regarding how we run this planet — i.e. our belief in over-industrialization and capitalism — would be put to shame.

So it's only skepticism on the outside. Underneath, it's actually a fear of having to give up on our way of life. Most people cannot handle that, and thus they would rather ridicule the phenomenon, strengthened by the fact that in doing so, they are complying with the mainstream and avoiding social stigma.

Chuckie
28th May 2022, 12:09
What strikes me odd is the 'proof that they exist'. As logic would dictate, the fact that they are 'there' is axiomatic/self-evident. What is unknown is what they are. Are they really so elusive that no one can get a clear bead on them? If so, they must be 'supernatural' in some form or fashion as in the human perspective supernatural or just some other kind of 'supernatural'. Perhaps, supernal.

Aianawa
3rd June 2022, 07:45
So if we are made of star dust, we are aliens ?.

Aragorn
3rd June 2022, 08:25
So if we are made of star dust, we are aliens ?.

Yes, but we're legal aliens. :onthequite:

Dreamtimer
3rd June 2022, 11:10
We're all aliens since we're all stardust. And not just the humans.

sourcetruth
18th June 2022, 05:45
https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/mysterious-drone-attacks-on-us-war-ships-solved/
Now they are saying that the 2019 incident was the result of drones. This case could be resolved this way, but there are still many other mysterious cases that require much more research.

What are the most credible UFO incidents that you have heard about?

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 09:12
https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/mysterious-drone-attacks-on-us-war-ships-solved/
Now they are saying that the 2019 incident was the result of drones. This case could be resolved this way, but there are still many other mysterious cases that require much more research.

What are the most credible UFO incidents that you have heard about?

Hi ST,

I don't recall hearing about this incident being reported as a Ufo incident. The ones that made headlines a few years ago took place much earlier in time.

The Phoenix Lights is the one most often cited nowadays ... I was in Phoenix the week of the sighting. I always go back to the Travis Walton event. It is well-documented and well-researched. There are others: Leon Zamora in New Mexico, The Rendlesham Forest event of 1980. Captain Thomas F. Mantell's crash, Roswell, of course.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0fEU_s8m18

sourcetruth
18th June 2022, 13:12
As far as Roswell, what is everyone's opinion on it here? I have heard conflicting viewpoints on Roswell, so I am still confused about what to think of it. I read one source that said it was shrouded in secrecy because it had to do with military technology.

Fred Steeves
18th June 2022, 13:48
As far as Roswell, what is everyone's opinion on it here? I have heard conflicting viewpoints on Roswell, so I am still confused about what to think of it. I read one source that said it was shrouded in secrecy because it had to do with military technology.

Given the convenient timing that the whole saga began to unfold in 1947, right after WW2 when "Operation Paperclip" was furiously shuttling advanced Nazi technology along with their high level scientists, doctors and engineers into the US, it's difficult for me to not point a finger that the crashes in question were merely that of test piloting such technology, or their reproductions.

The real deflections wouldn't have been "it was just a weather balloon", that's just for the kiddie mentality, a first feeble crack at it if you will. The real deflections would have come out of the disinformation factory as "little green men" are crashing, thus starting the ufo craze. Then later on, becoming more sophisticated with the times concoctions such as "MJ-12", it's little brother "Project Serpo", and the likes.

A modern day incarnation of conditioning us into oohing and aahing at shadows in "Plato's Cave".

This is not to be confused that I don't believe there are real ET visitations, in whatever form they really are, because there are far too many hints to the phenomena throughout history; that being said, two different things can be true at the same time, a mindset of nuance is always the researcher's friend.





Yes, but we're legal aliens. :onthequite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mSYZCbZalU

Aragorn
18th June 2022, 13:51
As far as Roswell, what is everyone's opinion on it here? I have heard conflicting viewpoints on Roswell, so I am still confused about what to think of it. I read one source that said it was shrouded in secrecy because it had to do with military technology.

I for one am still inclined to believe that something "not of this world" crashed there, and that it was covered up. The USAF initially admitted that a "flying saucer" had crashed there, but withdrew that statement again by the next day and claimed that it was a weather balloon. And then in the 1990s, under Clinton, they claimed that it was a spy balloon, and that the so-called bodies of extraterrestrials were crash test dummies. Really, a spy balloon? With crash test dummies — which hadn't even been invented yet in the 1940s — attached to it?

Nah. Gotta do better than that, guys. ;)

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 13:55
My take tends to be 'while acknowledging' the coincidental nature of post-WWII' shameful' shenanigans (military right-wing, of course, the only use of the left-wing is to make planes fly) it was in fact the A-bomb that attracted more attention from potential outside sources.

One should really watch that Disclosure project video from end to end. It grabbed my attention like a naked beauty. :)


I had a manager-colleague-friend that remarked one day that he knew why all the different explanations were forwarded by invested parties. I asked point-blank and he would not say. It led me to leave Lockheed because I was assured that some of their' more classified' work was touching on the UFO phenomena AND I had been denied at the time a higher-level security clearance because I had too many red flags in my background. (The assholes, I was railroaded by lies). I was told later that I would likely get the clearance it was just that at the time there was no hard need for another body in the mix. But I felt it was too late for me.

Fred Steeves
18th June 2022, 14:22
I for one am still inclined to believe that something "not of this world" crashed there, and that it was covered up. The USAF initially admitted that a "flying saucer" had crashed there, but withdrew that statement again by the next day and claimed that it was a weather balloon.

Well it was first referred to as a "flying disc", and The Roswell Daily Record made it "flying saucer". Either way it's not in dispute that something strange crashed there, the question is did the pilot speak English or not, and what really happened to said pilot.

It's not out of the question that in the midst of early on confusion and disarray, the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing, and that first intelligence to get there wasn't in the know so he was actually straight up with it. Then the Paperclip brass swoops in and tries to sweep that little oopsie under the rug like it never happened.

That kind of thing still happens from time to time today, where the initial local story is probably the accurate one, but as the brass swoops in and the initial story doesn't fit in with their interests, it takes an abrupt u turn never to be heard from again. Except maybe in the Roswell case, the balloon story proved to be so ridiculous that someone had the bright idea to go back to the disc story, but spinning it in such a way as for it to maximize their interests. The old "we're putting the truth smack dab in your face, but you're still never going to see it for what it actually is".

That kind of thing is right up the alley of the Rick Doty types.

I guess in the end, the real kicker for me is what was more likely the case? Advanced ET technology crashed in the desert, or advanced experimental human technology on a test flight, crashed in the desert?

In any case, as "Beau of the Fifth Column" always ends his videos: It's just a thought. :D

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 14:34
Given the convenient timing that the whole saga began to unfold in 1947, right after WW2 when "Operation Paperclip" was furiously shuttling advanced Nazi technology along with their high level scientists, doctors and engineers into the US, it's difficult for me to not point a finger that the crashes in question were merely that of test piloting such technology, or their reproductions.

The real deflections wouldn't have been "it was just a weather balloon", that's just for the kiddie mentality, a first feeble crack at it if you will. The real deflections would have come out of the disinformation factory as "little green men" are crashing, thus starting the ufo craze. Then later on, becoming more sophisticated with the times concoctions such as "MJ-12", it's little brother "Project Serpo", and the likes.

A modern day incarnation of conditioning us into oohing and aahing at shadows in "Plato's Cave".

This is not to be confused that I don't believe there are real ET visitations, in whatever form they really are, because there are far too many hints to the phenomena throughout history; that being said, two different things can be true at the same time, a mindset of nuance is always the researcher's friend.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mSYZCbZalU

Excellent song ... :)

sourcetruth
18th June 2022, 14:41
I also lean towards suspecting that something happened in Roswell. It is not too inconceivable to imagine that a coverup could have occurred. They did hide much of the UFO research that they did in that time period anyways. Some people go too far with UFO conspiracy theories and stretch them too far, but it is not too much of a stretch to suggest the possibility of a coverup and that the government has covered up their UFO research for a long time. Especially if there was some technology that they could have been trying to reverse engineer from the craft and they wanted to be the only ones with that technology. Beyond that, then I don't think that the government really knows what these things are or where they come from, and they wouldn't be willing to admit that they don't know something.
If there was a test going on, then the Roswell Army Air Field would have known that it was going on, and if they suspected it could have been a test when they first saw the debris, they would not have stated that they recovered a flying disk which would attract much more attention to the story.

Fred Steeves
18th June 2022, 17:16
So this is interesting. One event, two competing theories.

I’ve got no skin in the game for which ones correct, but just for kicks, let’s ask ourselves a simple question: what might ET have been finding so interesting, as to be buzzing around the Roswell area right after WW2?

And the related question: was the fact that they appear to be interested in the Roswell area just two years after WW2 related to recently ended US war time activity, or was the timing merely coincidental?

Let’s do an exercise of thinking this thing through here.

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 17:22
The A-bomb wing was stationed at Roswell and flew their Hiroshima and Nagasaki missions from there.

Aragorn
18th June 2022, 17:22
So this is interesting. One event, two competing theories.

I’ve got no skin in the game for which ones correct, but just for kicks, let’s ask ourselves a simple question: what might ET have been finding so interesting, as to be buzzing around the Roswell area right after WW2?

And the related question: was the fact that they appear to be interested in the Roswell area just two years after WW2 related to recently ended US war time activity, or was the timing merely coincidental?

Let’s do an exercise of thinking this thing through here.

Well, the way I've always heard it explain was that it was Earth's development of nuclear weapons that drew their attention. I don't know whether it's true or not — and when it comes to the testimonies from people like the late Bob Dean, I get wary — but at least it's a plausible explanation. :hmm:

Aragorn
18th June 2022, 18:30
I for one am still inclined to believe that something "not of this world" crashed there, and that it was covered up. The USAF initially admitted that a "flying saucer" had crashed there, but withdrew that statement again by the next day and claimed that it was a weather balloon.

Well it was first referred to as a "flying disc", and The Roswell Daily Record made it "flying saucer". Either way it's not in dispute that something strange crashed there, the question is did the pilot speak English or not, and what really happened to said pilot.

Interesting remark about whether the pilot spoke English or not. It reminds me of the World War II stories that my grandmother used to tell my brother and I when we were still very young.

One thing I never understood — and I doubt whether she had ever really seen one with her own eyes — was her claim that apart from the V-1 and V-2 weapons, the Germans also had "spheres" that were apparently "luminescent" and that "flew through the sky". I never knew what to make of that, because I had never heard anything like that, up until I then eventually stumbled upon the various pilot reports of so-called foo fighters — no, not the band. :p

My grandmother never named them such — it is after all an Anglo-Saxon denomination — but she was adamant that they were German weapons. Maybe she was wrong. Maybe she wasn't. But the fact is that they were seen by many a pilot, and as it is my understanding, the Allied pilots thought they were German, while the German pilots thought they were Allied.

What I do not believe in, is the claim that the German "Glocke" — if it even genuinely existed — would have been either a type of flying saucer or some kind of wormhole device. The Nazis were certainly very clever at engineering, but they were not that advanced. Had that been the case, then they wouldn't have put all of their money on Von Braun's experimental two-stage V-3 missile, which, unlike the V-1 (which was an unmanned and unguided jet loaded with explosives) and the V-2 (which was an equally unguided single-stage ballistic missile), never actually made it into production use.

As the matter of fact, the Nazis rejected pretty much all of Einstein's work with a knee-jerk because Einstein was Jewish, although they did do research into the development of a nuclear weapon, for which they did however not have the resources. But maybe those foo fighters were not actually aircraft or spacecraft. Maybe they were some kind of energetic weapon?

Fred Steeves
18th June 2022, 19:52
The A-bomb wing was stationed at Roswell and flew their Hiroshima and Nagasaki missions from there.

Negative.


The 509th Composite Group was the weapon delivery arm of the Manhattan Project. Prior to being stationed on Tinian Island, the 509th underwent extensive training with the modified B-29 Superfortress at Wendover Army Air Field in Wendover, Utah. On August 6 and 9, airmen of the 509th flew from Tinian Island to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, carrying the Little Boy and Fat Man atomic bombs.

Creation of the 509th

While scientists of the Manhattan Project focused on the functionality of the atomic bomb, Project Alberta, headed by Captain William “Deak” Parsons, focused on the plans for delivering the bomb. There were two components of this challenge: developing planes to carry the bomb, and training airmen to fly them. Project Silverplate, which focused on designing the planes to carry the bomb, was started as early as October of 1943. The 509th Composite Group, the crew to man these planes, was created in 1944.
https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/509th-composite-group

Tinian Island:


Tinian Island was the launching point for the atomic bomb attacks against Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. One of three islands in the Northern Marianas, Tinian is less than forty square miles in size and located approximately 1,500 miles south of Tokyo. The round-trip flight from Tinian to Tokyo took B-29s an average of twelve hours. This proximity to Japan is one reason Tinian served as the headquarters of the 509th Composite Group.
https://www.atomicheritage.org/location/tinian-island


The infamous USS Indianapolis delivered the bomb to Tinian Island:


The USS Indianapolis (hull classification symbol CA-35) was a US Navy cruiser that delivered the components of the Little Boy atomic bomb to Tinian Island. It was later sunk by a Japanese submarine in what became the worst naval disaster in US history. The ship’s secret mission, the questions surrounding its sinking, and the brutal trials endured by survivors have fascinated the public for decades.
https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/uss-indianapolis#:~:text=The%20USS%20Indianapolis%20(h ull%20classification,naval%20disaster%20in%20US%20 history.


Roswell had nothing to do with the A bombs, or nuclear technology.




Well, the way I've always heard it explain was that it was Earth's development of nuclear weapons that drew their attention. I don't know whether it's true or not — and when it comes to the testimonies from people like the late Bob Dean, I get wary — but at least it's a plausible explanation. :hmm:

Right, I've always heard that too. But what did that have to do with the base at Roswell? If ET was nosing around because of recent nuclear developments and deployments, they were nosing around the wrong place.




One thing I never understood — and I doubt whether she had ever really seen one with her own eyes — was her claim that apart from the V-1 and V-2 weapons, the Germans also had "spheres" that were apparently "luminescent" and that "flew through the sky". I never knew what to make of that, because I had never heard anything like that, up until I then eventually stumbled upon the various pilot reports of so-called foo fighters — no, not the band. :p

My grandmother never named them such — it is after all an Anglo-Saxon denomination — but she was adamant that they were German weapons. Maybe she was wrong. Maybe she wasn't. But the fact is that they were seen by many a pilot, and as it is my understanding, the Allied pilots thought they were German, while the German pilots thought they were Allied.

Huh, I've heard stories of American pilots being buzzed and harassed by such mysterious craft, but not the German pilots as well. That could be though. If these were a new top secret technology that their own country was desperately trying to ease into production towards the end of the war, they wouldn't know any more about it than the American pilots talking about similar such phenomena today.


What I do not believe in, is the claim that the German "Glocke" — if it even genuinely existed — would have been either a type of flying saucer or some kind of wormhole device. The Nazis were certainly very clever at engineering, but they were not that advanced. Had that been the case, then they wouldn't have put all of their money on Von Braun's experimental two-stage V-3 missile, which, unlike the V-1 (which was an unmanned and unguided jet loaded with explosives) and the V-2 (which was an equally unguided single-stage ballistic missile), never actually made it into production use.

Back when I was really looking into that stuff, I could never put my finger on just what exactly it's function was supposed to be. But whatever it was, I can certainly see why the US along with other of her allies at that time would want to get their greedy little mits on it.


As the matter of fact, the Nazis rejected pretty much all of Einstein's work with a knee-jerk because Einstein was Jewish, although they did do research into the development of a nuclear weapon, for which they did however not have the resources. But maybe those foo fighters were not actually aircraft or spacecraft. Maybe they were some kind of energetic weapon?

Right. I seem to recall them condescendingly referring to it as something like "Jewish physics". They were under the impression that their own physics was far superior. Of course they did, they were fucking Nazis LOL! However, save for the atomic bombs, who else was playing around with these kinds of physics?

sourcetruth
18th June 2022, 20:07
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Composite_Grouphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Operations_Group

The 509 OG traces its history to the World War II 509th Composite Group (509 CG), which conducted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, in August 1945.

Redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy in 1946, the group was one of the original ten bombardment groups of Strategic Air Command. The unit was also the host organization at Roswell Army Airfield, New Mexico in July 1947 during the alleged Roswell incident.


In November 1945, the group returned to the United States and was assigned to Roswell Army Air Base, New Mexico. For a brief period of time from January to March 1946 the 509th was assigned to the 58th Bomb Wing at Fort Worth AAF, Texas, before returning to Roswell.

The 509th composite group was renamed to the 509th bombardment group and assigned to Roswell, New Mexico after World War 2, so it is related.

Wind
18th June 2022, 20:22
As far as Roswell, what is everyone's opinion on it here? I have heard conflicting viewpoints on Roswell, so I am still confused about what to think of it. I read one source that said it was shrouded in secrecy because it had to do with military technology.

I am inclined to believe that they were aliens indeed. Although bear in mind that any species which crashes a physical ship is not very advanced one even if it can do space travel like that. They would still be quite primitive and tied to the third density physical reality just like we are now as humans. In the higher densities more advanced beings and ET's are far less physical and so are their ships even though they can materialize as seemingly physical objects, but they just don't choose to do that. Nukes have been probably a source of interest for them as it's been said that nuclear explosions cause much more than local damage here. They have more warping effect on energy which humans don't fully understand.

I for one believe that ET's have always been part of humanity's history and they've never fully left us. There have been various factions and species. Just like humans, some are good and some are not. I think the human DNA has been tampered with too, both by negative and positive sources. DNA is code for life and in this solar system or universe lifeforms seem to be mainly humanoid due to the structure of the DNA which is being spread, but that's certainly not the case elsewhere.

Also when it comes to US government and deep classified military operations, I do think they are not only aware of ET's, but they work with them. It might sound wild, but I think that has been the case at least since the times of Eisenhower. Sadly I think they mostly have been working with the negative ones, because the good guys would not want to directly intervene with humanity's course. In exchange for whatever info or something else the negative ET's have given the military technology which could be used in classified projects, possibly as weapons too.

The ET's probably started us and have been our guardians, but I think there are certain kind of cosmic laws which they have to obey, which would be similar to the Prime Directive in Star Trek. I think Earth is like a laboratory with mixed results, it's considered to be a very tough place for souls too.

sourcetruth
18th June 2022, 21:17
I'm not sure if the UFOs are really aliens. I believe that these could also be some sort of paranormal or extradimensional beings that appear like this, although it could be possible that there are aliens out there and I won't discount that possibility.
There used to be a website called thejinn.net which explored the possibility that Aliens and UFOs were Jinn beings.
According to this website, one sign that this could be the case is that UFO sightings occur with sightings of other paranormal phenomena.

Wind
18th June 2022, 21:30
I'm not sure if the UFOs are really aliens. I believe that these could also be some sort of paranormal or extradimensional beings that appear like this, although it could be possible that there are aliens out there and I won't discount that possibility.
There used to be a website called thejinn.net which explored the possibility that Aliens and UFOs were Jinn beings.
According to this website, one sign that this could be the case is that UFO sightings occur with sightings of other paranormal phenomena.

That's mixing apples and oranges. There are certainly spirits, both negative and positive. Such as jinns, but they would not be the same as what we would think as UFO's. Some unidentified flying objects certainly could be manmade. What is considered alien lifeform anyways, or supernatural? Alien compared to us? What we think as beings out there can indeed also be interdimensional beings so that can be confusing for people to understand. This human species is just one out of so many, we are aliens to some other species out there.

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 21:34
Purportedly, the humans were unable to communicate with the crew of the crashed craft at Roswell.


Interesting remark about whether the pilot spoke English or not. It reminds me of the World War II stories that my grandmother used to tell my brother and I when we were still very young.

One thing I never understood — and I doubt whether she had ever really seen one with her own eyes — was her claim that apart from the V-1 and V-2 weapons, the Germans also had "spheres" that were apparently "luminescent" and that "flew through the sky". I never knew what to make of that, because I had never heard anything like that, up until I then eventually stumbled upon the various pilot reports of so-called foo fighters — no, not the band. :p

My grandmother never named them such — it is after all an Anglo-Saxon denomination — but she was adamant that they were German weapons. Maybe she was wrong. Maybe she wasn't. But the fact is that they were seen by many a pilot, and as it is my understanding, the Allied pilots thought they were German, while the German pilots thought they were Allied.

What I do not believe in, is the claim that the German "Glocke" — if it even genuinely existed — would have been either a type of flying saucer or some kind of wormhole device. The Nazis were certainly very clever at engineering, but they were not that advanced. Had that been the case, then they wouldn't have put all of their money on Von Braun's experimental two-stage V-3 missile, which, unlike the V-1 (which was an unmanned and unguided jet loaded with explosives) and the V-2 (which was an equally unguided single-stage ballistic missile), never actually made it into production use.

As the matter of fact, the Nazis rejected pretty much all of Einstein's work with a knee-jerk because Einstein was Jewish, although they did do research into the development of a nuclear weapon, for which they did however not have the resources. But maybe those foo fighters were not actually aircraft or spacecraft. Maybe they were some kind of energetic weapon?

part of the German problem was that they went down the path of doing research with 'heavy water'. It was a dead end.

Fred Steeves
18th June 2022, 21:35
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Composite_Grouphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/509th_Operations_Group


The 509 OG traces its history to the World War II 509th Composite Group (509 CG), which conducted the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, in August 1945.


Redesignated the 509th Bombardment Group, Very Heavy in 1946, the group was one of the original ten bombardment groups of Strategic Air Command. The unit was also the host organization at Roswell Army Airfield, New Mexico in July 1947 during the alleged Roswell incident.

In November 1945, the group returned to the United States and was assigned to Roswell Army Air Base, New Mexico. For a brief period of time from January to March 1946 the 509th was assigned to the 58th Bomb Wing at Fort Worth AAF, Texas, before returning to Roswell.

The 509th composite group was renamed to the 509th bombardment group and assigned to Roswell, New Mexico after World War 2, so it is related.

Okay, gotcha. So looks like it was both then. They trained at Wendover Army Air Field in Wendover, Utah, and then came back to settle in Roswell.

The Roswell base was always just a training facility, nothing top secret going on there or anything, and that became their new home.

So then where is this leading us? At first blush it's telling me that ET was more interested in what type of craft dropped the bombs, than who made them up the road at Los Alamos, or across the country at Oak Ridge, Tennessee just down the road from me.

Although it's said that the craft was downed in a severe thunderstorm. So it's also possible that they were checking up on everything, ie the delivery mechanism, the manufacturing centers, and the test sites, but this one just happened to go down while it was checking out the delivery mechanism.

But then as Wind alluded to, which I'll piggy back onto just a bit, wouldn't you think getting downed by a storm would be more of a 20th Century human short coming, and not that of a supposedly advanced technology that the likes of Bob Lazar, still contend hasn't been figured out yet?

I've also heard that some others were downed accidentally by radar as well. Not very advanced there either. :rolleyes:

Hey, I'm just throwing this stuff out there, food for thought anyway...

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 21:39
Negative.


https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/509th-composite-group

Tinian Island:

https://www.atomicheritage.org/location/tinian-island


The infamous USS Indianapolis delivered the bomb to Tinian Island:

https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/uss-indianapolis#:~:text=The%20USS%20Indianapolis%20(h ull%20classification,naval%20disaster%20in%20US%20 history.


Roswell had nothing to do with the A bombs, or nuclear technology.





Right, I've always heard that too. But what did that have to do with the base at Roswell? If ET was nosing around because of recent nuclear developments and deployments, they were nosing around the wrong place.





Huh, I've heard stories of American pilots being buzzed and harassed by such mysterious craft, but not the German pilots as well. That could be though. If these were a new top secret technology that their own country was desperately trying to ease into production towards the end of the war, they wouldn't know any more about it than the American pilots talking about similar such phenomena today.



Back when I was really looking into that stuff, I could never put my finger on just what exactly it's function was supposed to be. But whatever it was, I can certainly see why the US along with other of her allies at that time would want to get their greedy little mits on it.



Right. I seem to recall them condescendingly referring to it as something like "Jewish physics". They were under the impression that their own physics was far superior. Of course they did, they were fucking Nazis LOL! However, save for the atomic bombs, who else was playing around with these kinds of physics?

Strategic Air Command
Main article: 509th Operations Group

Emblem of the 509th Bombardment Wing
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/509th_Bomb_Wing.png/250px-509th_Bomb_Wing.png

1946/47 sign at Roswell Army Airfield. Note the Mushroom Cloud symbol for the 509th Bomb Group.

Martin-Omaha B-29-40-MO Superfortress AAF Serial No. 44-27353 The Great Artiste assigned to Crew C-15, 393rd Bombardment Squadron of the 509th Bomb Group. This aircraft was converted to Silverplate Victor number 89. This aircraft flew on both Atomic Bomb missions (6 August, 9 August 1945) as an instrument aircraft monitoring the nuclear explosions.
The 509th Composite Group returned from its wartime base on Tinian and relocated to Roswell on 6 November 1945, initially being assigned to Second Air Force under Continental Air Forces. With demobilization in full swing in late 1945, much juggling of units was being performed by the Army Air Forces. It was reassigned to the 58th Bombardment Wing at Fort Worth Army Airfield on 17 January 1946. The 509th was assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946, being one of the first eleven organizations assigned to SAC.

In April 1946 many of the group's Boeing B-29 Superfortress aircraft deployed to Kwajalein as part of Operation Crossroads, a series of atomic bomb tests. The remainder became the core of two new squadrons activated as part of the group, the 715th Bomb Squadron and the 830th Bomb Squadron. In May 1946, the Army Air Forces gave the newly formed SAC the responsibility of delivering the atomic bomb. Only the 509th was trained and ready for the atomic bomb mission.

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 21:46
ok, I'll have to be more careful, if you're checking me, Fred. When I made the comment of flying from Roswell it actually made little sense to me, but I posted it anyway. as I was working with a pressure washer in the back yard... I hate the way you do that Fred.


Okay, gotcha. So looks like it was both then. They trained at Wendover Army Air Field in Wendover, Utah, and then came back to settle in Roswell.

The Roswell base was always just a training facility, nothing top secret going on there or anything, and that became their new home.

So then where is this leading us? At first blush it's telling me that ET was more interested in what type of craft dropped the bombs, than who made them up the road at Los Alamos, or across the country at Oak Ridge, Tennessee just down the road from me.

Although it's said that the craft was downed in a severe thunderstorm. So it's also possible that they were checking up on everything, ie the delivery mechanism, the manufacturing centers, and the test sites, but this one just happened to go down while it was checking out the delivery mechanism.

But then as Wind alluded to, which I'll piggy back onto just a bit, wouldn't you think getting downed by a storm would be more of a 20th Century human short coming, and not that of a supposedly advanced technology that the likes of Bob Lazar, still contend hasn't been figured out yet?

I've also heard that some others were downed accidentally by radar as well. Not very advanced there either. :rolleyes:

Hey, I'm just throwing this stuff out there, food for thought anyway...

Radar and possibly as gifts to humanity

Fred Steeves
18th June 2022, 21:53
Strategic Air Command
Main article: 509th Operations Group

Emblem of the 509th Bombardment Wing
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/509th_Bomb_Wing.png/250px-509th_Bomb_Wing.png

1946/47 sign at Roswell Army Airfield. Note the Mushroom Cloud symbol for the 509th Bomb Group.

Martin-Omaha B-29-40-MO Superfortress AAF Serial No. 44-27353 The Great Artiste assigned to Crew C-15, 393rd Bombardment Squadron of the 509th Bomb Group. This aircraft was converted to Silverplate Victor number 89. This aircraft flew on both Atomic Bomb missions (6 August, 9 August 1945) as an instrument aircraft monitoring the nuclear explosions.
The 509th Composite Group returned from its wartime base on Tinian and relocated to Roswell on 6 November 1945, initially being assigned to Second Air Force under Continental Air Forces. With demobilization in full swing in late 1945, much juggling of units was being performed by the Army Air Forces. It was reassigned to the 58th Bombardment Wing at Fort Worth Army Airfield on 17 January 1946. The 509th was assigned to Strategic Air Command on 21 March 1946, being one of the first eleven organizations assigned to SAC.

In April 1946 many of the group's Boeing B-29 Superfortress aircraft deployed to Kwajalein as part of Operation Crossroads, a series of atomic bomb tests. The remainder became the core of two new squadrons activated as part of the group, the 715th Bomb Squadron and the 830th Bomb Squadron. In May 1946, the Army Air Forces gave the newly formed SAC the responsibility of delivering the atomic bomb. Only the 509th was trained and ready for the atomic bomb mission.

I inartfully worded what I said. While it was obvious the links I posted indicated that the squadron was indeed the chauffeur for the deployment of Big Boy and Little Boy, I was of the mind set that ET would only be interested in the bombs themselves, not how they got to Japan.

It was definitely careless of me to say they had nothing to do with them…

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 21:53
I'm not sure if the UFOs are really aliens. I believe that these could also be some sort of paranormal or extradimensional beings that appear like this, although it could be possible that there are aliens out there and I won't discount that possibility.
There used to be a website called thejinn.net which explored the possibility that Aliens and UFOs were Jinn beings.
According to this website, one sign that this could be the case is that UFO sightings occur with sightings of other paranormal phenomena.

Agreed, that is another leg of the phenomena. Dr. Jacques Vallee is the man on that one. I read a book earlier this year by a new guy exploring that angle. I'll post his name and the book's name when I have a chance ... :)

Wind
18th June 2022, 21:55
Certain sources claim that ET's would not allow a full blown nuclear war and they would again defuse the warheads.

Only a limited nuclear strike might be allowed, but I wonder why that would be because there would be possibly retaliation.

sourcetruth
18th June 2022, 22:05
That's mixing apples and oranges. There are certainly spirits, both negative and positive. Such as jinns, but they would not be the same as what we would think as UFO's. Some unidentified flying objects certainly could be manmade. What is considered alien lifeform anyways, or supernatural? Alien compared to us? What we think as beings out there can indeed also be interdimensional beings so that can be confusing for people to understand. This human species is just one out of so many, we are aliens to some other species out there.

Jinn are shapeshifting beings, so the idea is that they change form.
What I meant is that the UFOs could be the result of the same kinds of beings that produce paranormal phenomena when I mean that they are extra dimensional beings.

Chuckie
18th June 2022, 22:13
Certain sources claim that ET's would not allow a full blown nuclear war and they would again defuse the warheads.

Only a limited nuclear strike might be allowed, but I wonder why that would be because there would be possibly retaliation.

yeah, to me that defies logic. I would question that. :)


Jinn are shapeshifting beings, so the idea is that they change form.
What I meant is that the UFOs could be the result of the same kinds of beings that produce paranormal phenomena when I mean that they are extra dimensional beings.

Here's an interesting factoid: One of the few places on the globe that has never reported any type of 'wildman' (i.e. bigfoot, sasquatch, yeti ... etc) is Hawaii. My 'joke' regarding that is that the aliens are disguised as tourists there. :)


I inartfully worded what I said. While it was obvious the links I posted indicated that the squadron was indeed the chauffeur for the deployment of Big Boy and Little Boy, I was of the mind set that ET would only be interested in the bombs themselves, not how they got to Japan.

It was definitely careless of me to say they had nothing to do with them…

Why thank you Fred ... you are a fine gentleman ... :) now that you know how sensitive I am about being wrong ... :)

Aragorn
18th June 2022, 22:17
There are certainly spirits, both negative and positive. Such as jinns [...]

Just being pedantic here, but the word Jinn/Djinn is plural already. The singular is Jinni/Djinni. :)





Jinn are shapeshifting beings, so the idea is that they change form.
What I meant is that the UFOs could be the result of the same kinds of beings that produce paranormal phenomena when I mean that they are extra dimensional beings.

But then again, as Arthur C. Clarke said...



"Any sufficiently advanced technology would be indistinguishable from magic."

:eyebrows:

Wind
18th June 2022, 22:19
What I meant is that the UFOs could be the result of the same kinds of beings that produce paranormal phenomena when I mean that they are extra dimensional beings.

Yup, that make sense and basically we would agree more or less then.


Just being pedantic here, but the word Jinn/Djinn is plural already. The singular is Jinni/Djinni. :)

Thanks for the correction, thinking both in Finnish and English is somewhat confusing to me at times.

Often it's written as djinn or jinn. In Finnish it would be Jinni and Jinnit in plural. I suppose the word genie is derived from Djinn too.

Aragorn
19th June 2022, 10:52
I suppose the word genie is derived from Djinn too.

That is correct, and it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see how that came about. All it takes is Americans. :p :ttr:

Do however note that the myth of the Jinn is already very old — it goes back to way before the creation of Islam — and that the Jinn were not necessarily regarded as evil in those days. For most part, their disposition resembles that of humans — some are good, some are bad, and yet others are somewhere in between — but they are non-corporeal, magical beings and therefore, they are also bound by the laws of traditional magic.

It was only under Judaism first and especially under Islam later that Jinn became equated with evil. In Islam, the character of the Devil — the Shaítan — is a Jinni called Iblis, although Islam concretely leaves the door open as to whether Jinn would be fallen angels or a separate category of beings all of their own.

Given that Arabian mythology goes back thousands of years, I'd say that Jinn had probably never been regarded as angels — fallen or otherwise — before Islam came along, but that they were instead regarded as being a completely separate category of (non-corporeal) life-forms, more akin to the spirits of nature as also encountered in the pre-Christian, pantheistic Greek and Roman mythologies, which in turn were borrowing a lot from each other.

Fred Steeves
21st June 2022, 02:48
I for one believe that ET's have always been part of humanity's history and they've never fully left us.

I do too.


Also when it comes to US government and deep classified military operations, I do think they are not only aware of ET's, but they work with them. It might sound wild, but I think that has been the case at least since the times of Eisenhower.

That may or may not be, but I'm always curious why people might think that. Is it just speculation as to the timing of the Roswell incident, with Truman being president during that time frame in the late 40's, and Roosevelt coming to roost right after that starting in '53? Or is it because of a well documented trickster named Richard "Rick" Doty who was central to the release of the MJ 12 material?


First, it has been established that "Falcon", one of the principle sources of the MJ-12 material, is Richard C. Doty, formerly attached to District 17 Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) at Kirtland Air Force Base, Albuquerque, New Mexico. Sgt. Doty retired from the U.S. Air Force on October 1, 1988.

How do I know that Doty is "Falcon"? During a recent telephone conversation, Linda Moulton Howe told me that when Sgt. Doty invited her to his office at Kirtland AFB in early April 1983, and showed her a purportedly authentic U.S. Government document on UFOs, he identified himself as code-name "Falcon" and stated that it was Bill Moore who had given him that name.



Also, in early December 1988, a ranking member of the production team responsible for the "UFO Cover Up? -- Live" television documentary confirmed that Doty is "Falcon". This same individual also identified the second MJ-12 source who appeared on the program, "Condor", as Robert Collins who was, until recently, a Captain in the U.S. Air Force. Like Doty, he was stationed at KAFB when he left the service late last year.

Both Doty and Collins deny any involvement in the MJ-12 affair. However, Linda Howe has issued a sworn affidavit, agreeing to testify under penalty of perjury, relating to the events during the course of her meeting with Richard "Falcon" Doty at KAFB in 1983 (Enclosures A and B). Thus far, Doty has *not* issued a sworn affidavit, or agreed to testify under penalty of perjury, to re-enforce his denial that the events of his meeting with Howe occured as she has described them.
https://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/hastings.htm




The concept of "Majestic 12" emerged during a period in the 1980s when ufologists believed there had been a cover-up of the Roswell UFO incident and speculated some secretive upper tier of the United States government was responsible.[3] Shandera and his ufologist colleagues Stanton T. Friedman and Bill Moore say they later received a series of anonymous messages that led them to find what has been called the "Cutler/Twining memo" in 1985 while searching declassified files in the National Archives. Purporting to be written by President Eisenhower's assistant Robert Cutler to General Nathan F. Twining and containing a reference to Majestic 12, the memo is widely held to be a forgery, likely planted as part of a hoax.[6] Historian Robert Goldberg wrote that the ufologists came to believe the story despite the documents being "obviously planted to bolster the legitimacy of the briefing papers".[3]

Claiming to be connected to the United States Air Force Office of Special Investigations, a man named Richard Doty told filmmaker Linda Moulton Howe that the MJ-12 story was true, and showed Howe unspecified documents purporting to prove the existence of small, grey humanoid aliens originating from the Zeta Reticuli star system. Doty reportedly promised to supply Howe with film footage of UFOs and an interview with an alien being, although no footage ever materialized.[3]

Soon, distrust and suspicion led to disagreements within the ufology community over the authenticity of the MJ-12 documents, and Moore was accused of taking part in an elaborate hoax, while other ufologists and debunkers such as Philip J. Klass were accused of being "disinformation agents".[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12



Richard Doty is one of the most controversial figures in the history of the UFO. Doty had a 20-year career with the Air Force, including years as a special agent for the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI). During that time, he was assigned to conduct surveillance on a scientist, Paul Bennewitz, who had inadvertently acquired information about a classified Air Force program. Doty admits he fed disinformation to Bennewitz and to other UFO researchers. forged documents, and muddied the waters.

Since leaving military service, Doty worked as a police officer and has been the subject of numerous articles and documentaries. He has long been considered a poster child for UFO disinformation, that is, false information about UFOs distributed by the Pentagon. His fingerprints are seen — justifiably or not — on nearly every new source of UFO information that surfaces.

In 2019, Doty was invited to speak at UFO Mega Con, a large UFO conference in Laughlin, Nevada. In his presentation, he acknowledged participating in surveillance of UFO groups and in disseminating false information.
https://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/spying-disinformation-accusations-follow-ufo-figure-rick-doty-an-exclusive-interview/



So we have it established that Rick Doty played a cetral roll in putting out the MJ 12 material. But there's more:

Of particular interest to some people, myself included, was a central role he played in the release of the "Project Serpo" material back around 2005-2006. This (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_projectSERPO07.htm) is how Doty describes the Serpo material, with its foundation set firmly upon his previous MJ 12 material, but widely broadening its scope to involve an elaborate astronaut exchange program in the 1960's with the same supposed alien race from the Roswell incident.

Some may recall that Bill Ryan was not only the lead man in the Serpo story being splashed all over the headlines of the ufo community in '06:

From Bill:


The information began to be released on 2 November 2005 by a retired senior official within the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) who calls himself “Anonymous”. Until he chooses to make his name known, this is the way he will be represented here. Anonymous reports that he is not acting individually and is part of a group of six DIA personnel working together as an alliance: three current and three former employees. He is their chief spokesman.
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/serpo/index_serpo.htm



But here's even more. What few know is that Doty himself was highly suspected as playing the role of the original source of the material, "Anonymous". From the unfortunately now defunct research forum "Reality Uncovered":


“All of the information presented to Victor Martinez and Bill Ryan by ‘Request Anonymous’ came in fact from Richard C. Doty. Martinez may have suspected Doty’s involvement, but Bill Ryan knew from the very start that he was getting the Serpo material directly from the former AFOSI security guard. Doty has continuously denied being involved in the story, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary. In addition to Doty, Martinez and Ryan, the behind the scenes ‘Team of Five’ who collaborated extensively on the project is completed by Dr. Christopher ‘Kit’ Green – a former analyst with the CIA, and physicist Dr. Harold (Hal) E. Puthoff.

“The material to follow will show that Serpo was not a lone-gunman operation, but collaboration between three friends, who between them already had many years’ experience of scamming the UFO community. This investigation, told in full for the first time, is the precursor to our main report into the Imaginary Intelligence Agency, a group also known under the name Scammers Inc.”

http://www.realityuncovered.net/ufology/articles/serpo/

https://www.ufodigest.com/article/the-late-great-planet-serpo-part-ii/

Funny how this kind of stuff tends to wind up full circle in the alternative community, and most especially, the ufo faction of it. Spooks abound, including in a small group called "The Team Of Five" that was behind the scenes pushing the Serpo narrative. The main team consisted of:

- Bill Ryan - Presenter of the Serpo information.

- Rick Doty - Ex Air Force Intelligence

- Kit Green - Ex CIA

- Hal Puthoff - Ex NSA

- Victor Martinez - Tough to pin down his past, though he was said to be an ex school teacher. But it was from his email group of supposedly around 150 people that Bill Ryan, "Anonymous", and likely every other character in this tale originated from came from.



There's a long chain available of their back and forths. A sample here, interesting as they seem okay with an up and coming Kerry Cassidy soon to hit the scene, which will sweep Bill off to a new Project when the going gets tough with the Serpo Project in a year's time, this next one will be "Project Camelot". But at the very least, this email chain solidly confirms that Bill Ryan was working very closely with our friend Rick Doty of "MJ 12/Project Serpo" fame:


From: Green, Christopher [cgreen@xxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 April 2006 12:43
To: Victor Martinez; Bill Ryan
Cc: >Bill; >Hal Puthoff; >RickDoty
Subject: RE: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book!
Great! I wanna believe...I wanna believe. Thanks.
But, at one time or another we have been told that there was "absolutely no
problem with": Steve, Kelly, WJ, Shawanna, Zep Tepi, Val, Scott and several
others...need I say more?
How much did you two guys tell this lady about Hal, Rick, Kit...use our names
ever? Say what we were doing with the Team of Five? Give our backgrounds or
credentials? Any of our emails?
I hope "10-4 in your book" is from a book that has a second chapter and an
index, and that you have read it thoroughly before passing the book on.
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Martinez [mailto:victorgm@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:12 AM
To: Bill Ryan
Cc: >Bill; Green, Christopher; >Hal Puthoff; >Rick Doty
Subject: Re: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book!
DOC G:
I met Kerry with Bill for six hrs, 10 min last Wednesday; very nice lady and her
insights during our marathon meeting were a valued contribution.
No problema here! -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
From: Victor Martinez [victorgm@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 April 2006 15:32
To: Green, Christopher
Cc: >Hal Puthoff; >Rick Doty; Contact@serpo.org
Subject: RE: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book!
9
Attachments: Kerry Cassidy is OK, 10-4 in my book! (1.62 KB)
DOC G:
As to what Bill has told and not said to Kerry is something Bill will have to
disclose to you. I found her pleasant, so that's all I can offer to you.



So anyway you guys, I could go on but you get the gist of it by now. Hope you've found some of this of interest. A lot of this kind of stuff requires some reading between the lines (like seeing a gatekeeper operation in action), but a lot is rather black and white as well. Make of it what you will.

Chuckie
21st June 2022, 12:19
I do too.



That may or may not be, but I'm always curious why people might think that. Is it just speculation as to the timing of the Roswell incident, with Truman being president during that time frame in the late 40's, and Roosevelt coming to roost right after that starting in '53? Or is it because of a well documented trickster named Richard "Rick" Doty who was central to the release of the MJ 12 material?


https://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/hastings.htm




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majestic_12



https://www.yourcentralvalley.com/news/spying-disinformation-accusations-follow-ufo-figure-rick-doty-an-exclusive-interview/



So we have it established that Rick Doty played a cetral roll in putting out the MJ 12 material. But there's more:

Of particular interest to some people, myself included, was a central role he played in the release of the "Project Serpo" material back around 2005-2006. This (https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_projectSERPO07.htm) is how Doty describes the Serpo material, with its foundation set firmly upon his previous MJ 12 material, but widely broadening its scope to involve an elaborate astronaut exchange program in the 1960's with the same supposed alien race from the Roswell incident.

Some may recall that Bill Ryan was not only the lead man in the Serpo story being splashed all over the headlines of the ufo community in '06:

From Bill:


https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/serpo/index_serpo.htm



But here's even more. What few know is that Doty himself was highly suspected as playing the role of the original source of the material, "Anonymous". From the unfortunately now defunct research forum "Reality Uncovered":



https://www.ufodigest.com/article/the-late-great-planet-serpo-part-ii/

Funny how this kind of stuff tends to wind up full circle in the alternative community, and most especially, the ufo faction of it. Spooks abound, including in a small group called "The Team Of Five" that was behind the scenes pushing the Serpo narrative. The main team consisted of:

- Bill Ryan - Presenter of the Serpo information.

- Rick Doty - Ex Air Force Intelligence

- Kit Green - Ex CIA

- Hal Puthoff - Ex NSA

- Victor Martinez - Tough to pin down his past, though he was said to be an ex school teacher. But it was from his email group of supposedly around 150 people that Bill Ryan, "Anonymous", and likely every other character in this tale originated from came from.



There's a long chain available of their back and forths. A sample here, interesting as they seem okay with an up and coming Kerry Cassidy soon to hit the scene, which will sweep Bill off to a new Project when the going gets tough with the Serpo Project in a year's time, this next one will be "Project Camelot". But at the very least, this email chain solidly confirms that Bill Ryan was working very closely with our friend Rick Doty of "MJ 12/Project Serpo" fame:





So anyway you guys, I could go on but you get the gist of it by now. Hope you've found some of this of interest. A lot of this kind of stuff requires some reading between the lines (like seeing a gatekeeper operation in action), but a lot is rather black and white as well. Make of it what you will.

Bill Ryan and Richard Doty? Now that's an interesting connection.

Chuckie
27th June 2022, 21:51
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eviKoBUIkWg

Aragorn
27th June 2022, 21:55
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eviKoBUIkWg

Video unavailable... :noidea:

Chuckie
28th June 2022, 11:53
It is a video from the Travel TV station ... American I suppose. It is a pretty good recounting of really hardcore mass sightings from around the world. South Africa, Zimbabwe, The Lonnie Zamora event in New Mexico, etc. with the real players. A pretty good video. About an hour long.

Phenomenom, it is on youtube and an informative watch.

Wind
23rd July 2022, 18:22
No5C6YRzZ74