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enjoy being
3rd December 2017, 09:49
Well, to kick things off on this.

I believe that it is a certainty that at some point in the future, the human race will become extinct.
I believe that there are people who don't believe humans could ever become extinct;.
People who believe humans are the rightful heirs of the Earth, and that this is a forever thing.

I believe that the Earth has life which will always remain.
I am certain that there will always be a life form which carries as a vessel, the consciousness of the planet.
I am not certain anyone will understand my certainty.
I believe that the vast majority of people believe in things which are fed by a need to believe in something.
I am certain that most beliefs are distortions fed by a nagging sense of knowing nothing.
I believe that while people search for these things, their lives pass by.
And desperation sets in to feel like there has been success in that search.
I believe that things will change. Change is a certainty.
I don't believe it is possible for anyone to affect change.
I am certain even that change is a result of failed beliefs and failure to believe.
There are so many beliefs, which battle each other and force people to choose certainty..
I believe that in these cases, certainty and stubbornness are interchangeable descriptors.
I have certainty that some humans believe they know with certainty, the most, the truth.
I believe that those humans would kill any who they believe have worked out what they know.
I am quite certain that 90% or more of that which people concern themselves with, is fiction,
and that it is only their belief in these concerns that breathe life to these things.
These things like shadows and apparitions, depend on people to believe in them, to make them real.
Meanwhile, the things which are most certain, continue uncelebrated, drowned out by the search for certainty of belief and the fighting over which delusion is to be declared the most convincing.

Gale Frierson
3rd December 2017, 10:35
The fact that we can breathe Life into things makes us co-creators with God.

Emil El Zapato
3rd December 2017, 12:34
Well, to kick things off on this.

I believe that it is a certainty that at some point in the future, the human race will become extinct.
I believe that there are people who don't believe humans could ever become extinct;.
People who believe humans are the rightful heirs of the Earth, and that this is a forever thing.

I believe that the Earth has life which will always remain.
I am certain that there will always be a life form which carries as a vessel, the consciousness of the planet.
I am not certain anyone will understand my certainty.
I believe that the vast majority of people believe in things which are fed by a need to believe in something.
I am certain that most beliefs are distortions fed by a nagging sense of knowing nothing.
I believe that while people search for these things, their lives pass by.
And desperation sets in to feel like there has been success in that search.
I believe that things will change. Change is a certainty.
I don't believe it is possible for anyone to affect change.
I am certain even that change is a result of failed beliefs and failure to believe.
There are so many beliefs, which battle each other and force people to choose certainty..
I believe that in these cases, certainty and stubbornness are interchangeable descriptors.
I have certainty that some humans believe they know with certainty, the most, the truth.
I believe that those humans would kill any who they believe have worked out what they know.
I am quite certain that 90% or more of that which people concern themselves with, is fiction,
and that it is only their belief in these concerns that breathe life to these things.
These things like shadows and apparitions, depend on people to believe in them, to make them real.
Meanwhile, the things which are most certain, continue uncelebrated, drowned out by the search for certainty of belief and the fighting over which delusion is to be declared the most convincing.

This is just an opinion Nothing...

Life is hard, depression is even worse. We all NEED something to believe in to satisfy our existential need to have meaning in our life. Rationalization or not, we have a basic human requirement to rationalize our existence. Bear in mind that rationalization is only the same as denial in the mind of the dissastisfied, the unhappy, the depressed.

We must have that or life really is not worth living.

Guillermo Del Toro has an interesting outlook on such things and I agree with him to a degree. First, he doesn't believe in an afterlife...I try not to believe that. Second, he says when death is imminent, we are stripped of all of our illusions and in his case, fame, kudos, and well dones, and are faced with ourselves as mortal human beings and we are either satisfied or not. Those that are satisfied sense peace and those not, face fear.

Dreamtimer
3rd December 2017, 14:27
It's hard for me to believe that humans will become extinct. I think there's enough time in Earth's life for us to learn to go off into the Solar System/Galaxy or even other dimensions. I also think we've been here much longer than current thinking says.

I'm not that old but I've already thought about when I'm done here, what will I have left behind. The answer is an awesome son and a husband that's a much better man than he would've been without me. That's enough for me.

I do believe we exist beyond these bodies and I believe I experience the proof every time I enter the Dreamtime. (as do others)

We focus on differences. And we're all mostly alike. And as we want to believe we're special as a species, individuals also want to see themselves as special and different. And then we divide over stupid and small differences because we want to think we're right or special.


The fact that we can breathe Life into things makes us co-creators with God.

This is a beautiful statement.

Dumpster Diver
3rd December 2017, 14:32
We are God...excepting perhaps for Aragorn who thinks he is some sort of rebel angel.

Dreamtimer
3rd December 2017, 14:40
When I'm done here, if I can meet Aragorn in angel form, that would be pretty awesome.

Emil El Zapato
3rd December 2017, 14:40
ahem... we are one with God... :)

Dumpster Diver
3rd December 2017, 14:52
ahem... we are one with God... :)

Sure, that too...


When I'm done here, if I can meet Aragorn in angel form, that would be pretty awesome.

You can speak to him on zoom...pretty easy.

The One
3rd December 2017, 17:09
And now for something completely different i have just been informed the white avian's have arrived to save us.

Click on the image below.:eyebrows:

10155224015510888

modwiz
3rd December 2017, 17:48
They're looking for blue chickens to eat.

enjoy being
3rd December 2017, 20:25
It's great to have responses. And in such constructive manners. I agree with them all in certain ways.

I couldn't have made this conceptualisation in other places, where the level of response would have been greater but consist of a steady stream of posts along the the lines of,
"I believe you are a screaming nut bar, no, I am certain of it".

Yet such a comment would be seen by me as a response in defence of belief as well.
Defence of belief, it is a constant that goes more unnoticed than we might expect. Mostly the small things, which are often collaborated together as foundations to our personal truths.

We can breathe life to ideas and be co-creators, and we can stifle and stomp, and become destroyers.
It is uncertain which we are most proficient at in these times, but one thing is for sure, that the later has been given light via our misplaced beliefs masquerading as certainty.

I believe that rocks are also sand, and that sand falls off rock.
I believe that animals are in harmony with the Earth, and are glued there quite strongly.
But that they can be prised off by humans as destroyers.
I believe that some animals might over run others when the balance of all things is upset.
I believe when the balance is upset then some become like sand and are blown in all directions.
The measurement of this balance is certainly a marvel which at least seems intelligent.
I believe that while humans toil over their troubles, we are merely organising the weighting of this balance and preparing the inevitable.
I believe when the dinosaurs disappeared there were a few survivors which were capable of adapting, maybe because they had smaller appetites.

The eye of a needle.

I am certain that all is not what it seems.
I have certainty that there is an existence for parts of us after physical death, I have witnessed things I believe to be unexplainable in other ways.
I believe the scales attempt balance for humans, by teaching our souls balance by allowing experience.
I believe this is done by making us return to walk in the shoes of others.
I believe this would be logic as to why as sand that appears quite detached from the Earth, we humans are permitted to remain without being blown in all directions.

I am certain that we are constantly told all these things in fantastic prose and mime.
The juxtapositions we encounter, the songs coming into our heads. The great dramas that unfold which carry messages we are often blind to.
Because of belief.

And a waiata. A song that has one definition of being a sign of thanks to the listeners when a speaker held the floor.

The eye of the needle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdE1tcKBDg

Ha the previous version had 3 minutes of silence at the end

Aragorn
3rd December 2017, 20:49
We are God...excepting perhaps for Aragorn who thinks he is some sort of rebel angel.

You have no idea how closely that description mirrors my general sentiments at the moment... :wry:

enjoy being
3rd December 2017, 20:54
Happy perigee full moon to all.:group hug:

sandy
4th December 2017, 00:05
It's great to have responses. And in such constructive manners. I agree with them all in certain ways.

I couldn't have made this conceptualisation in other places, where the level of response would have been greater but consist of a steady stream of posts along the the lines of,
"I believe you are a screaming nut bar, no, I am certain of it".

Yet such a comment would be seen by me as a response in defence of belief as well.
Defence of belief, it is a constant that goes more unnoticed than we might expect. Mostly the small things, which are often collaborated together as foundations to our personal truths.

We can breathe life to ideas and be co-creators, and we can stifle and stomp, and become destroyers.
It is uncertain which we are most proficient at in these times, but one thing is for sure, that the later has been given light via our misplaced beliefs masquerading as certainty.

I believe that rocks are also sand, and that sand falls off rock.
I believe that animals are in harmony with the Earth, and are glued there quite strongly.
But that they can be prised off by humans as destroyers.
I believe that some animals might over run others when the balance of all things is upset.
I believe when the balance is upset then some become like sand and are blown in all directions.
The measurement of this balance is certainly a marvel which at least seems intelligent.
I believe that while humans toil over their troubles, we are merely organising the weighting of this balance and preparing the inevitable.
I believe when the dinosaurs disappeared there were a few survivors which were capable of adapting, maybe because they had smaller appetites.

The eye of a needle.

I am certain that all is not what it seems.
I have certainty that there is an existence for parts of us after physical death, I have witnessed things I believe to be unexplainable in other ways.
I believe the scales attempt balance for humans, by teaching our souls balance by allowing experience.
I believe this is done by making us return to walk in the shoes of others.
I believe this would be logic as to why as sand that appears quite detached from the Earth, we humans are permitted to remain without being blown in all directions.

I am certain that we are constantly told all these things in fantastic prose and mime.
The juxtapositions we encounter, the songs coming into our heads. The great dramas that unfold which carry messages we are often blind to.
Because of belief.

And a waiata. A song that has one definition of being a sign of thanks to the listeners when a speaker held the floor.

The eye of the needle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdE1tcKBDg

Ha the previous version had 3 minutes of silence at the end

LOL this has 7:21 minutes of silence.. hahahha no can access >>>>>>>>>>>>>>AND................with certainty I believe you are one deep dude with a heart of gold that will kick ass if need be in order to set right the Human Being...:getcoat:

For myself................I believe in my humanness more than not and thus can find fault and favour all at the same time...within and without!! :chrs:

enjoy being
4th December 2017, 05:59
Haha thank you Sandy. Oh darn this is the other link that has the silence at the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFGVbMi9DnA any ways.. never to mind.

I believe I might be a bit transparent with that account of your perception lol. I'm maybe a little to skinny to be physically kicking butts, but I do have this tendency to speak up when I feel it is required. I was a champion amateur boxer back as a youth, but never really had the right brawling rage for it, I liked the dance of it all more than anything, but it did help in knowing if something happened I could at least defend myself.
I believe in you actually Sandy, quietly going about your role as the even hand on this forum. I think you have some stories which would make many run for the hills, yet you sit calmly and yes exactly as you say in that last line.

Elen
4th December 2017, 08:06
I believe in you actually Sandy, quietly going about your role as the even hand on this forum. I think you have some stories which would make many run for the hills, yet you sit calmly and yes exactly as you say in that last line.

Well spotted...;)

enjoy being
5th December 2017, 06:40
What makes you believe in something?
What makes you certain?
Are there things which you actually can be certain of?
Even when a name of a thing or person is given, from a time you weren't alive during, how do you believe?
Are such things actual answers to mysteries?
Do you just have to listen to your heart? your gut? or your head?
Then, if or when it feels right, and you have decided you believe, do you jump to certainty?
How does that work?
Do you learn from those times when this happened and you realise you got carried away?
How do you quantify being told about unknowable and often challenging concepts, theories, and histories, by people who are 'mere mortals'?
Is faith different to belief?
Does finding out EVERYTHING matter?
What if finding out was cheating the maze?
If the journey was meant to be made without looking too far ahead, and all attempts to do so fed back distortion?
Do you think you would notice being duped in that way?

No answers needed.

Emil El Zapato
5th December 2017, 12:59
Hi Nothing,

Can't help myself on this one...

Faith is very different from belief. Faith doesn't need to be defended, belief most often does.

Listen to the heart, gut, and head...It's the only way! :)

Dumpster Diver
5th December 2017, 13:08
Well, I’m starting to think “reality” is a bit different for each of us, i.e. the timelines are different right down to each individual.

The hologram shapes itself to your karma so I can be God and Aragorn can be a causal rebel.

...yeah, I’m a nut bar too. The math is getting to me.

enjoy being
5th December 2017, 16:52
Questions can be so enticing to answer.
Sharing answers can be equally enticing.
I find it hard to resist also, there's nothing wrong with it really.
It can be very helpful to all, and very unhelpful.
Sometimes it is a scramble to get ones self heard. Sometimes it helps to get ones thoughts out.
Sometimes it is received as passive opinion, sometimes as if it were gospel, or as if the person demands it to be.
Sometimes we are very quick to recoil when it conflicts our structure of belief.
Sometimes we are aware of this. Other times we have wars.
Or run from the challenge.
Why do we run?
Where do we run to?

Emil El Zapato
6th December 2017, 01:29
Well, I’m starting to think “reality” is a bit different for each of us, i.e. the timelines are different right down to each individual.

The hologram shapes itself to your karma so I can be God and Aragorn can be a causal rebel.

...yeah, I’m a nut bar too. The math is getting to me.

there might be a lot of truth to that...that's why we have to think positive thoughts but most important is that we run those thoughts through our hearts, intestines, and minds.

Aragorn
6th December 2017, 02:08
Faith is very different from belief. Faith doesn't need to be defended, belief most often does.

The way I myself distinguish them is somewhat different, though. In my opinion, faith implies trust and/or confidence, while a belief is based upon empirical observation and/or recollection from memory, and is more vague in its outline.

Of course, the term "belief system" has less to do with a belief and much more with faith, because it's a fairly coherent system of multiple and usually correlated suppositions which are accepted as true.

As they say, your mileage may vary. ;)

Emil El Zapato
6th December 2017, 02:23
Aragorn, you always get me when I'm tired... I'll get back to you on that one... :)

Nap

Amanda
6th December 2017, 02:23
Sometimes I think about that old adage: Seeing is believing. When a person has experienced something, particularly something out of the ordinary - their perception and belief will be factored into their psyche.

What I know now and what I knew when I was say twenty - has changed somewhat. I think I have always held some core beliefs, such as there always being decent People and the other type. Having learned much about psychopaths/sociopaths and narcissists - came to educate me on why the world is the way it is ....

I do know that science has taught me that sodium fluoride is a toxic substance - as listed in Section 6 of the Poisons Register at the National (Canberra) University.

I do know that the consumerism that currently dominates the millions of People who can afford to spend 'disposable' income, is impacting negatively on our planet Earth.

I do know that literacy skills - reading and writing by hand - are becoming a lost art.

I do know what I know - the list is long - due to life experience and reading. When I say; Reading - I mean widely. I don't just rely on the worldwideweb - I visit the library and read magazines and books and journals. I am always looking to learn.

Anyone who has a belief system - must have had someone or something happen - to have impacted on their psyche? Yes/No/Maybe???

Anyone who knows something or feels that they know something - must surely have a reason for that state of 'knowing' and that is a part of our natural instinct - isn't it????

Lovely thought provoking thread and in a safe environment. What more could we need for a classroom of Learning. Thanks for starting this thread Nothing and thanks for the thought provoking responses everyone.

Much Peace & Much Respect - Amanda

enjoy being
8th December 2017, 05:31
This link was given to me the other day by some body who I had just met.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o
49 mins

enjoy being
8th December 2017, 05:59
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwUR3Zabi-4
A bit of Michael Tsarion. I still have not found one clip of his I have looked for for a while.

Dumpster Diver
8th December 2017, 15:07
This link was given to me the other day by some body who I had just met.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o
49 mins

Nice video. Kinda sums up my view.

sandy
9th December 2017, 05:40
This link was given to me the other day by some body who I had just met.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o
49 mins

I'm going to have to listen to this a few times I think....:tea: thks

Aragorn
9th December 2017, 08:40
This link was given to me the other day by some body who I had just met.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbh5l0b2-0o
49 mins


While interesting to watch — even if only because it bundles so much information in such a relatively short presentation — I do not agree with everything being espoused in the above video. For one, this Athene person claims that consciousness is merely a byproduct of neurological activity, which is indeed the mainstream scientific vantage, but the material universe is only a reflection of the spiritual universe, not the other way around. ;)

Emil El Zapato
9th December 2017, 14:31
All that for a propagand punchline... :)

Good Point, Aragorn.

His comment on death and afterlife as a misapprehension is probably true but he obfuscates the fact that earlier in his presentation he equates consciousness with quantum phenomena. If consciousness survives then by derivation we are no longer bound by macroscopic processes (3-d life) and enter a realm where our empirical observerations of reality no longer apply (i.e. the rules change...contrary to his statement).

He also comments that the notion of the mind controlling the universe (reality) is fanciful at best. This is an oversimplification. Hard science has established that an observer is required to produce reality...and that makes sense if you think about it, it is the observer that moves the superpositional probabilites of an event occurring to a defined position, again stating the obvious, i.e. to a real event.

If anything the complication is that multiple observers can potentially create multiple and differening real events, ala Mr Dumpster's analogy of one reality for each observer. But from a theoretical perspective can we categorically state that 8 billion humans and various numbers of Alien intelligences observing a single superpositional probability can not in fact produce that single event, in effect, controlling the universal reality. In particular, if that singular probability is a conscious thought? As he said, consciousness is by definition a property of that selfsame quantum phenomena.

He also made the usual reference to free will as an illusion. Again no, at the quantum level, there is no before and after, a conscious thought must proceed a macroscopic action or the action never takes place. I would call that free will and that doesn't even consider the notion of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle which states (as we all know) that you can't pin down quantum behavior and as he explained the notion of time as the equal and opposite phenomena of space, given that neural activity takes place in a spatial dimension that is how boundless? Time is almost irrelevant from this perspective and how can we possibly determine which comes first, the blue chicken or the egg? I don't think we can, so I'm keeping my options open.

And finally, Time...as scientists would describe it, time is an emergent property of the universe meaning it isn't a fundamental characteristic and I have no idea what the implications of that might be. :)

The rest I agreed with....

enjoy being
9th December 2017, 21:27
I managed to find the clip I had been looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PPvJ4WImAc

The Athenes' video is interesting. I found the digi-voice hard going, but after a few replays we found an amicable compromise in our relationship. Looking at some of the other titles put out by Athene, the fellow seems to have a few sceptic leanings, which is okay.
The overall picture I received from the presentation is in showing the mechanics behind the actions of consciousness. As proof of workings. Some of the conclusions placed were not accurate or say, took liberties.
Proof of workings for the methods which can be used to dupe humans.
How we can dupe ourselves.
How we choose distractions to fill in vast blocks of time while we wait for our lives to progress.
It doesn't go into my suggestion that this highly spec'd radio transmission and computational device is capable of more than just receiving conventional data and processing it, and is linked into different places and times.

sandy
10th December 2017, 05:02
Well I think consciousness is far beyond the mind in itself.... re: the Athenes Video...why do I say that...well what about those who have been declared DEAD that come back from this diagnosis with stories of their out of body spirit experience. Spirit / unconscious IMHO is a frequency and this is a vibration and vibrations can be FELT.

After "first" meeting my shadow self years ago in a shattering way and finding I survived ( use to think I would be like an overwound alarm clock that once once wound too much I would spring apart and never be able to be put all the parts back together), I gained the courage to venture deeper and deeper as I cleaned levels and years of garbage out.

I learned to Love my shadow self as without those ways of being I may not be here today......they ( shadow behavior) are all ways to survive the human experience until One can create new ways to cope and or function more productively. To get to truly accept, understandand and love my shadow self is to sit quiet and identify what I am feeling below the usual good, sad, happy, angry etc....these are just the tip of the iceberg feelings...............

I say find the inner most feeling as this is the essence of your vibration and thus addressing how you vibrate through feeling identification frees you to change it if it is not of your liking and or enhance if it is what turns your crank.......

Change the feeling and the behavior changes, some time as quick as snapping your fingers and depending on your beliefs and indoctrination it make take some practise of new behavior to finally retune the vibration to your new sync and desired way of being. Fake it until you make can work when you know this is the focus and intent.....

By the way.....Love Tsarion ..his no Shite Sherlock info presentation is my kind of way of being too!!

Great thread and posts everyone............thanks

Just ran across this video and thought I would slip back and post it as it is appropo .... it is short :-) Connected ..what does it mean??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=208&v=0YbUW1gmPak

Octopus Garden
10th December 2017, 20:26
I have a feeling that humans are uniquely positioned to evolve towards their highest potential and survive their own witless follies.

I think that people use the term, "I believe," when they should more accurately say, "I feel that..." Belief indicates a sense of certainty. Very few of us can or should be that certain of anything. It gets in the way.

Kathy
11th December 2017, 06:58
"I believe" means to me that I don't know, and always leads into doubt as a concept. So, I would put that on the back burner until I can say "I know".

enjoy being
17th December 2017, 08:49
What did your grandparents believe?
Did they have more choices in what to believe than you?
When our imaginations are captured, we get caught up and inspired.
What made your grandparents get up every morning and do what they did?
Was it not knowing any better? Probably in the cynical sighted manner.
Was it some form of motivation tendered from a consideration, a belief?
Do we ever know what was going on in the minds of generations passed?
As it is we struggle to know what was going on in the minds of generations present.
Was some belief brought about by lack of knowledge?
Is some belief still brought about by lack of knowledge?
Is certainty sometimes a misplaced belief in ones knowledge?
The words quickly become seasonally interchangeable and what is left of value is that belief and certainty within any individual is pretty arbitrary.
There might be passion and conviction, but when it comes down to it, each case could just as easily be personal superstition, as it might be unfaltering truth.
I guess they can still be called, motivators. They made you do or not do something. Effectively being meaningless or superfluous in any other degree of definition.

Emil El Zapato
17th December 2017, 15:05
According to my father, my grandfather's motivation for getting up in the morning was to chase the farmer around the fields with a machete for not paying him...

enjoy being
19th December 2017, 00:15
Happy Apogee New Moon everyone.
3 days (here) to solstice. :-p

Dreamtimer
19th December 2017, 00:29
Nothing to say but, awesome. I love this time of year. New moon means big tide differentials. Hope I get a chance to see low tide tomorrow.

Dumpster Diver
19th December 2017, 13:02
Nothing to say but, awesome. I love this time of year. New moon means big tide differentials. Hope I get a chance to see low tide tomorrow.

Roll Tide!