PDA

View Full Version : Covert Recruitment into Space Marines “20 and Back” Program



WantDisclosure
17th October 2017, 09:40
Michael Salla of Exopolitics.org has posted Part 1 of a five part interview series with someone by the name of Michael Christopher Gerloff:


Published on Oct 16, 2017

On June 1, 1978, during the second day of bootcamp for the U.S. Marine Corps, Michael Christopher Gerloff was asked whether he wanted to go to space and serve in a "20 and back" program. He recalls everything that subsequently happened during the intake process for his recruitment into the “Space Marines”, and has partial recall of his subsequent activities during his 20 and back service.

After ending active reserve service with the USMC Reserves (1978-1984), Gerloff went on to serve as a U.S. Army Ranger (1987-1991), and police officer with the Mountlake Terrace and Seattle Police departments (1992-2001). From 2004-2005, he served as an international police officer with the United Nations Liberia peacekeeping mission.

Gerloff has provided military and police records that corroborate key aspects of his testimony, and contain many anomalies which point to his “20 and back” service. He believes that his coming forward has been sanctioned by a USMC/Department of Navy intelligence group established by President Dwight Eisenhower, which is actively promoting disclosure of a US Navy Secret Space Program.

In Part 1 of this five part interview series, Gerloff describes a huge triangle UFO sighting that triggered him, only four days later, to begin the process of joining the U.S. Marine Corps. He describes how a USMC captain interviewed him during his initial testing at bootcamp, and alluded to the triangle sighting as a factor in him receiving a special offer. The captain made an offer to Gerloff to join a "20 and back" Space Program.

The captain said that he would send a telegram to Gerloff's parents. In 2016, Gerloff saw the telegram, a "Marsgram", for the first time and it triggered more memory recall. The Marsgram is among the documentary evidence supplied by Gerloff in support of his claim of being covertly recruitment into a “20 and back” secret space program run by the US Navy.

For article with links to documents, go to: http://exopolitics.org/covert-recruitment-into-space-marines-20-and-back-program/

TZqXTWymvEA

Aianawa
19th October 2017, 09:37
Been Vetted yet ?

WantDisclosure
19th October 2017, 09:48
Been Vetted yet ?

By whom, Aianawa?

Of course he's been vetted by Michael Salla.

In my opinion, it is up to you to vett him yourself, by using your own intuition as you listen to him speak, and by following up to connect dots and cross-check information presented.

There are four more parts of this interview that should be forthcoming.

Emil El Zapato
19th October 2017, 13:31
I'm familiar with this guy, his story sounds pretty credible, I haven't heard the part of the SSP, yet.

I had a dream last night that I flew to Mars on a tour to experience the sights and sounds. First time ever I've had such a dream. It was interesting experiencing the sensations of 'swimming' in the lighter gravity. People were performing spectacular acrobatic acts diving and jumping out of the water. Walking was sort of exhilarating in that going uphill was a breeze. Breathing the air part of the time. And even witnessed some of the indigenous flora and fauna. Funny dream.

WantDisclosure
19th October 2017, 14:00
I'm familiar with this guy, his story sounds pretty credible, I haven't heard the part of the SSP, yet.
Please share how it is that you already know about Michael Christopher Gerloff.

Emil El Zapato
19th October 2017, 14:19
Can't remember really, I just remember 'hearing' about it...

WantDisclosure
19th October 2017, 14:29
Michael Salla of Exopolitics.org has posted Part 1 of a five part interview series with someone by the name of Michael Christopher Gerloff:

Part 2:


Published on Oct 19, 2017

On June 1, 1978, during the second day of bootcamp for the U.S. Marine Corps, Michael Christopher Gerloff was asked whether he wanted to go to space and serve in a “20 and back” program. He recalls everything that subsequently happened during the intake process for his recruitment into the “Space Marines”, and has partial recall of his subsequent activities during his 20 and back service.

After ending active reserve service with the USMC Reserves (1978-1984), Gerloff went on to serve as a U.S. Army Ranger (1987-1991), and police officer with the Mountlake Terrace and Seattle Police departments (1992-2001). From 2004-2005, he served as an international police officer with the United Nations Liberia peacekeeping mission.

Gerloff has provided military and police records that corroborate key aspects of his testimony, and contain many anomalies which point to his “20 and back” service. He believes that his coming forward has been sanctioned by a USMC/Department of Navy intelligence group established by President Dwight Eisenhower, which is actively promoting disclosure of a US Navy Secret Space Program.

In Part two of this five part series, Gerloff describes how he was taken by a secret underground rail system into an intake center where he signed paperwork for his “20 and back” program, alongside many other young Marine recruits.

He describes some of his experiences as an intelligence officer within the USMC covert space program, and how the North Korea crisis was a signpost for a future time when he would publicly emerge in a USMC sanctioned disclosure of the Navy’s secret space program.

For article with links to documents and pictures, go to: http://exopolitics.org/pt-2-covert-recruitment-space-marines/

MunhvRi1SEU

Kathy
20th October 2017, 14:45
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZqXTWymvEA

"Published on 19 Oct 2017 by ExoNews TV

On June 1, 1978, during the second day of bootcamp for the U.S. Marine Corps, Michael Christopher Gerloff was asked whether he wanted to go to space and serve in a “20 and back” program. He recalls everything that subsequently happened during the intake process for his recruitment into the “Space Marines”, and has partial recall of his subsequent activities during his 20 and back service.

After ending active reserve service with the USMC Reserves (1978-1984), Gerloff went on to serve as a U.S. Army Ranger (1987-1991), and police officer with the Mountlake Terrace and Seattle Police departments (1992-2001). From 2004-2005, he served as an international police officer with the United Nations Liberia peacekeeping mission.

Gerloff has provided military and police records that corroborate key aspects of his testimony, and contain many anomalies which point to his “20 and back” service. He believes that his coming forward has been sanctioned by a USMC/Department of Navy intelligence group established by President Dwight Eisenhower, which is actively promoting disclosure of a US Navy Secret Space Program.

In Part two of this five part series, Gerloff describes how he was taken by a secret underground rail system into an intake center where he signed paperwork for his “20 and back” program, alongside many other young Marine recruits.

He describes some of his experiences as an intelligence officer within the USMC covert space program, and how the North Korea crisis was a signpost for a future time when he would publicly emerge in a USMC sanctioned disclosure of the Navy’s secret space program.

For article with links to documents and pictures, go to: http://exopolitics.org/pt-2-covert-re..."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MunhvRi1SEU
"Published on 19 Oct 2017 by ExoNews TV"

Dumpster Diver
20th October 2017, 14:48
Every time I read about folks recruited into these "20 and back" programs, I'm glad I was too stupid or incapable to not qualify. Because I surely would have been dumb enough to have said yes.

Aragorn
20th October 2017, 15:26
Um, for the record, guys, this subject has already been posted about by member KeepTrying, here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11541-A-New-Secret-Space-Program-Whistleblower), on the 17th of October 2017.

Suggestions? ;)

Emil El Zapato
20th October 2017, 16:05
well, it's handy not having to switch threads to listen... :)

Emil El Zapato
20th October 2017, 16:29
Every time I read about folks recruited into these "20 and back" programs, I'm glad I was too stupid or incapable to not qualify. Because I surely would have been dumb enough to have said yes.

If I were you I would contact Gerlof just to be sure you didn't

Kathy
22nd October 2017, 21:29
Um, for the record, guys, this subject has already been posted about by member KeepTrying, here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11541-A-New-Secret-Space-Program-Whistleblower), on the 17th of October 2017.

Suggestions? ;)

I could merge this one with the one that it duplicates, so that this one backs onto the other, to keep things tidy, since this one was posted at 15.45 and the other at 10+.

Aragorn
23rd October 2017, 07:32
Um, for the record, guys, this subject has already been posted about by member KeepTrying, here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11541-A-New-Secret-Space-Program-Whistleblower), on the 17th of October 2017.

Suggestions? ;)

I could merge this one with the one that it duplicates, so that this one backs onto the other, to keep things tidy, since this one was posted at 15.45 and the other at 10+.

I'll take care of it. ;)

Aianawa
23rd October 2017, 08:58
Um so which one am I on lol

Dumpy would you remember ?

Aragorn
23rd October 2017, 09:11
Um so which one am I on lol

Both. I've merged them. :)

Fred Steeves
23rd October 2017, 09:37
Been Vetted yet ?


Of course he's been vetted by Michael Salla.

Then the answer is no.

Aianawa
23rd October 2017, 09:46
Nope, you Fred vetted, yes.

Dreamtimer
23rd October 2017, 16:16
Michael Salla blundered by saying that evidence is not necessary. Personal testimony has it's value. But it's not a solid kind of evidence. Eye-witness accounts often vastly differ.

How can someone supposedly from this kind of program be vetted in any case? Records and evidence can't really be produced, can they?

Captain Kaye, Randy Cramer comes to mind. He says his command has given him permission. Can we even know if there is such a program? Secret programs are not in some big bin that anyone with clearance can look at. It's all stove-piped. You see only what you need to see, which probably isn't much in the big picture.

Salla wants the interviews to keep coming so he's not going to ride these guys too hard, imo.

Emil El Zapato
23rd October 2017, 16:26
Stovepiped is correct. The Government Bible says, "Need to know!". One thing I do know from experience though is that people with more narrow clearances will sometimes screw up and let things slip. They aren't always cognizant of the security levels of people they are bs'ing with. (They work in groups, of course). But that isn't the same as direct knowledge. I've worked with a number of people with Top Secret clearances and ask them too many questions and they will definitely shut you down. Even if it is an area of ridicule such as UAP and USP.

Unfortunately, I was denied (not permanent) a 'program' level clearance at one time...Too many red flags (my dossier looked like a 4th of July celebration) :) Misspent youth and all that. But the investigators lied on my report and I was simply told ..."sign the report, or not". I did inquire several times about the veracity of the report and was told I could start an investigation regarding it and I declined because it was easier to just let it go and transfer to the Manned Space Flight Program.

WantDisclosure
23rd October 2017, 18:00
Part 3:


Published on Oct 23, 2017

In part 3 of this five part interview series on the covert recruitment of Michael Gerloff into a Space Marines "20 and back" program, he elaborates on his background that was a major factor in his selection. He describes a lifetime of high strangeness, testing, night-time training during his youth, and DNA results which raise a possible connection to a human looking "Nordic" group of extraterrestrials.

For article with documents referred to in this episode, please visit: http://exopolitics.org/a-life-of-high-strangeness-testing-for-space-marines/

npkRY9ztPBo

WantDisclosure
24th October 2017, 00:25
Personal testimony has it's value. But it's not a solid kind of evidence. Eye-witness accounts often vastly differ.

Would you tell that to a child abuse victim?

People can be executed based on testimony.

Dreamtimer
24th October 2017, 00:56
These are reasons why people should be very careful about what they say.

I would not make any statements to any abuse victims as I am neither trained nor in a position to be doing such things. Courts have a very difficult time dealing with child testimony.

How many women have been maligned speaking of their experiences being abused?

Fred Steeves
24th October 2017, 01:26
I declined because it was easier to just let it go and transfer to the Manned Space Flight Program.

Wow, care to elaborate?

Wind
24th October 2017, 12:20
If someone claims to have been part of black ops or some secret space program, been to Mars etc. then they most probably haven't.

WantDisclosure
24th October 2017, 13:16
These are reasons why people should be very careful about what they say.

I would not make any statements to any abuse victims as I am neither trained nor in a position to be doing such things. Courts have a very difficult time dealing with child testimony.

How many women have been maligned speaking of their experiences being abused?

My point is that witness testimony is serious and valid and admissible in court.

The fact that eyewitness accounts of accident scenes or what have you differ does not change the fact that people testifying about their own personal experience is newsworthy and should be taken seriously by the public.

It doesn't make any difference whether or not you can know whether the person is telling the truth. It is up to you to listen and file the information as part of your knowledge base. Surely you have noticed along with the rest of the world that there have been many UFO sightings and something is obviously going on.

The secret space program is of utmost importance.

I thoroughly disagree with you in your denigration of Michael Salla, who does superb work as far as I'm concerned.

Dreamtimer
24th October 2017, 13:18
I did not denigrate Michael. I described his action as a blunder. Not the same.

Testimony is valid, of course. It's not enough to vet one of these people, which was my point.

WantDisclosure
24th October 2017, 14:22
I did not denigrate Michael. I described his action as a blunder. Not the same.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about this statement:


Salla wants the interviews to keep coming so he's not going to ride these guys too hard, imo.

That is taking a shot at his journalistic integrity.


It's not enough to vet one of these people, which was my point.

What is enough, in your opinion?

Because of the extreme secrecy and the lengths to which the Deep State goes to keep the program secret, in my opinion, witness testimony alone is valuable, and in some cases, that's all we can expect. I think these whistleblowers should be given common courtesy. The least the public should do is be neutral. We can't know what we haven't experienced ourselves. If we don't know, we shouldn't pretend that we do.

Kathy
24th October 2017, 14:37
Because of the extreme secrecy and the lengths to which the Deep State goes to keep the program secret, in my opinion, witness testimony alone is valuable, and in some cases, that's all we can expect. I think these whistleblowers should be given common courtesy. The least the public should do is be neutral. We can't know what we haven't experienced ourselves. If we don't know, we shouldn't pretend that we do.

Tell me, how do you discern testimony that is genuine from that which is deliberately planted, and do you mean we should all behave alike?

And why are you attacking Dreamtimer when all she is doing is expressing her opinion, which she is entitled to and which you can disagree with another more gentle way.

And I personally agree with Dreamtimer that Salla's journalistic stance is questionable in the circumstance.

WantDisclosure
24th October 2017, 15:00
Tell me, how do you discern testimony that is genuine from that which is deliberately planted, and do you mean we should all behave alike?
I use my intuition and general knowledge of what's going on in the world, as I expect others do, too, who will of course sometimes agree and sometimes disagree with me.



And why are you attacking Dreamtimer when all she is doing is expressing her opinion, which she is entitled to and which you can disagree with another more gentle way.
I'm not attacking Dreamtimer.

I'm defending a public figure, Michael Salla, who I think is doing us all a service with his work. I think public figures doing good work deserve the same respect as other members on a forum.

Elen
24th October 2017, 15:29
Keep this in mind KeepTrying...we have a lot to learn from these crazy British guys. Nobody here on the forum is the enemy...be gentle with us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

Emil El Zapato
24th October 2017, 15:29
Wow, care to elaborate?

There really isn't much more to it, Fred. The investigators twisted the hell out of the truth in my background and nobody cared. When I was called 'upstairs' to sign the paperwork I told the 'bureaucrat' in charge that I wasn't in agreement with what the report said. She just looked at me with this stern look and said, "Sign it or not!" So here I am in their employ, my security clearances are contigent on what I agree to and have a direct impact on the positions I am eligible for, and that was the response I got.

Truth be told, I was initially offered two different programs and I opted for the one that I was told would be lighter on the 'security check'. As it turned out that wasn't even close but that is what my eventual manager had told me before agreeing to their offers.

I wasn't really comfortable with the nature of the work I was involved in but one has to pay for dinner. So, after, speaking with higher level 'security agents' and told that I could start a counter-investigation I decided to move to the space flight division because in my heart that is what I wanted to do anyway.

Other circumstances played in to it and my manager felt that they should appeal a number of things, including the denial of the required clearance. The working managers told me that sometimes they are denied simply because there isn't an immediate need, but anyway.

I was offered a position on a team starting work on a 'futuristic' type of technology but I left before it happened. I was proud of myself because the manager of that project asked for me personally to be on the team.

One of the funny things that I had to endure before I got my initial clearance was that whenever I went into a room that had access to 'classified' info available there was a requirement that a police car like red light had to be constantly running. It was kind of weird and I thought silly. One time I had to sign in for a room to do some 'observation'/'testing' and I signed the reason for the visit as 'espionage'. I considered it a joke but I caught major hell for doing it. I guess they didn't think it was as funny as I did. (I've always had a sh*thead attitude) :)

Aragorn
24th October 2017, 15:51
My point is that witness testimony is serious and valid and admissible in court.

Well, good luck then with any attempt you might think of undertaking at convincing a court and/or a jury that you've been part of a secret space program which has a slave colony on Mars. :p

Melanie Vritschan (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11584-War-Crimes!-Melanie-Vritschan-s-Baby-Kidnapped-by-Brussels-Hospital-False-Psychiatric-Charges) was declared clinically insane, brutally interrogated in the middle of the night and locked up, as well as that her newly born baby was taken away from her, simply because her friend had stated before Melanie's cesarean that Melanie had been implanted — of which there is physical evidence, by the way.


The fact that eyewitness accounts of accident scenes or what have you differ does not change the fact that people testifying about their own personal experience is newsworthy and should be taken seriously by the public.

No, it should not be taken seriously. It should be taken into consideration, but that's a different thing. It should only be taken seriously when there are multiple independent witnesses who all say the same thing without having heard about it by way of the internet.

Once you've been around the block of this so-called "alternative community" a couple of times, you will know that there are loads of hoaxers out there, as well as loads of planted disinformation agents, but even more importantly so, loads and loads and loads of people with mental issues.

Only two years ago, we had two such people here on the forum — Corey Goode and Shane "The Ruiner" Bales — both of whom swore that they were telling the truth, and they were also both calling each other liars. Well, one of them was not actually posting "his material" here, but his cult following took care of that, and the other one also had an entire cult following.

Corey is delusional — a very troubled mind, possibly because of abduction by the military, but he could also just as easily be schizophrenic — but at the same time, his wife, David Wilcock and Michael Salla are all backing up his story, for reasons of their own. Corey's wife is simply opportunistically enjoying the attention her husband is currently enjoying. Wilcock is absolutely in love with the Law Of One material, and he thinks that Corey has met Ra, who supposedly dictated the Law Of One. And Michael Salla desperately wants to believe, like FBI Special Agent Fox Mulder in "The X-Files".

Shane Bales is a psychopath, who had studied other psychopaths and their stories — e.g. Bill Ryan, Simon Parkes, Stephen "Charles"/"Atticus"/"Houdini" Hodges — and so he thought he was going to take this so-called "alternative community" for a ride by writing an anonymous blog. And once a couple of bored housewives and people who are eternally in search of themselves all started falling for his storytelling, he began reveling in their attention, and he kept on feeding it with fresh stories.

And you know what? In the end, both of them turned out liars.





I'm defending a public figure, Michael Salla, who I think is doing us all a service with his work.

He would be doing us all a much greater service if he were to actually vet his witnesses. Anyone can tell a story, and anyone else can believe in it and repeat it. That doesn't mean that the repeater would be doing the world a favor, because for all anyone knows, he's merely repeating a lie. As a public figure, Michael Salla owes it both to himself and to the "alternative community" at large to properly vet his witnesses. But he doesn't, and that makes him just another source of noise, rather than a reliable signal.

And now that I'm at it, I will throw Alfred Lambremont Webre in there with him, or at least, on account of the stuff he himself proclaims as important news, with articles written by himself as "corroborating evidence". I'm not getting into the Melanie Vritschan case here, because in that case he has actually brought forth a credible witness — a scientist who was there with Melanie when it all happened, who is herself indeed a member of the organization that Melanie runs, and who had examined Melanie's implant once it had been removed.

Kerry Cassidy is very similar. She has no discernment whatsoever, and she'll pick up on anything that triggers her personal interests — i.e. Zecharia Sitchin, the Annunaki, Project Looking Glass, and similar subjects.

Yes, there is something going on. Definitely. But the very fact that the "alternative community" has been stigmatized by the mainstream as a bunch of paranoid "conspiracy theorists" is exactly what allows hoaxers, disinformation agents, attention seekers and crazy people to run amok within this community. Because we don't know what's real and what's not, and we can't prove any of it because whatever's going on, the evidence is being suppressed.

I will tell you one thing, though. I have personally been burned more than once by taking someone at face value. And once you stand to lose your good standing and your reputation because you've backed up some woo-woo stuff for which there was no factual evidence, and it later on turned out to have been a hoax, you become a lot more careful, I can guarantee you that.

Take it from me. Or not. The prerogative is yours, of course. :hmm:

Dreamtimer
24th October 2017, 17:21
I believe Salla wants to keep the interviews coming so he can continue to do his research. But he's in a bit of a catch-22 since he can't follow up in the way a normal investigative reporter would be able. It doesn't help to state categorically that evidence doesn't matter.

If the deep state is feeding the alternative community with people telling these same stories, it will seem much more true than it is. And then there are those like Corey who did a bunch of research in order to put together their own story.

Instincts are awesome and also critical thinking.:thup:

WantDisclosure
24th October 2017, 17:21
Well, good luck then with any attempt you might think of undertaking at convincing a court and/or a jury that you've been part of a secret space program which has a slave colony on Mars.
I did not say secret space program testimony would hold up in court.

I was pointing out that just because witnesses disagree, does not mean witness testimony is unreliable.

I also believe that people who have been in the secret space program have experienced very dark goings on that would trouble the healthiest mind. And going through the healing process from that, overcoming it, and having the courage to speak out because of conscience, which is the way I see Corey Goode, should be respected.

Aragorn
24th October 2017, 17:39
[...] And going through the healing process from that, overcoming it, and having the courage to speak out because of conscience, which is the way I see Corey Goode, should be respected.

I have known Corey Goode quite well, because we were friends. But I'm afraid your idea of him doesn't correspond to my experience, neither as his former friend, nor as a staff member here when Corey was competing with The Ruiner and on his rise to stardom — thanks to David Wilcock and Michael Salla.

As they say, your mileage may vary. :tea:

Dumpster Diver
24th October 2017, 19:09
Well, good luck then with any attempt you might think of undertaking at convincing a court and/or a jury that you've been part of a secret space program which has a slave colony on Mars. :p

Melanie Vritschan (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/11584-War-Crimes!-Melanie-Vritschan-s-Baby-Kidnapped-by-Brussels-Hospital-False-Psychiatric-Charges) was declared clinically insane, brutally interrogated in the middle of the night and locked up, as well as that her newly born baby was taken away from her, simply because her friend had stated before Melanie's cesarean that Melanie had been implanted — of which there is physical evidence, by the way.



No, it should not be taken seriously. It should be taken into consideration, but that's a different thing. It should only be taken seriously when there are multiple independent witnesses who all say the same thing without having heard about it by way of the internet.

Once you've been around the block of this so-called "alternative community" a couple of times, you will know that there are loads of hoaxers out there, as well as loads of planted disinformation agents, but even more importantly so, loads and loads and loads of people with mental issues.

Only two years ago, we had two such people here on the forum — Corey Goode and Shane "The Ruiner" Bales — both of whom swore that they were telling the truth, and they were also both calling each other liars. Well, one of them was not actually posting "his material" here, but his cult following took care of that, and the other one also had an entire cult following.

Corey is delusional — a very troubled mind, possibly because of abduction by the military, but he could also just as easily be schizophrenic — but at the same time, his wife, David Wilcock and Michael Salla are all backing up his story, for reasons of their own. Corey's wife is simply opportunistically enjoying the attention her husband is currently enjoying. Wilcock is absolutely in love with the Law Of One material, and he thinks that Corey has met Ra, who supposedly dictated the Law Of One. And Michael Salla desperately wants to believe, like FBI Special Agent Fox Mulder in "The X-Files".

Shane Bales is a psychopath, who had studied other psychopaths and their stories — e.g. Bill Ryan, Simon Parkes, Stephen "Charles"/"Atticus"/"Houdini" Hodges — and so he thought he was going to take this so-called "alternative community" for a ride by writing an anonymous blog. And once a couple of bored housewives and people who are eternally in search of themselves all started falling for his storytelling, he began reveling in their attention, and he kept on feeding it with fresh stories.

And you know what? In the end, both of them turned out liars.






He would be doing us all a much greater service if he were to actually vet his witnesses. Anyone can tell a story, and anyone else can believe in it and repeat it. That doesn't mean that the repeater would be doing the world a favor, because for all anyone knows, he's merely repeating a lie. As a public figure, Michael Salla owes it both to himself and to the "alternative community" at large to properly vet his witnesses. But he doesn't, and that makes him just another source of noise, rather than a reliable signal.

And now that I'm at it, I will throw Alfred Lambremont Webre in there with him, or at least, on account of the stuff he himself proclaims as important news, with articles written by himself as "corroborating evidence". I'm not getting into the Melanie Vritschan case here, because in that case he has actually brought forth a credible witness — a scientist who was there with Melanie when it all happened, who is herself indeed a member of the organization that Melanie runs, and who had examined Melanie's implant once it had been removed.

Kerry Cassidy is very similar. She has no discernment whatsoever, and she'll pick up on anything that triggers her personal interests — i.e. Zecharia Sitchin, the Annunaki, Project Looking Glass, and similar subjects.

Yes, there is something going on. Definitely. But the very fact that the "alternative community" has been stigmatized by the mainstream as a bunch of paranoid "conspiracy theorists" is exactly what allows hoaxers, disinformation agents, attention seekers and crazy people to run amok within this community. Because we don't know what's real and what's not, and we can't prove any of it because whatever's going on, the evidence is being suppressed.

I will tell you one thing, though. I have personally been burned more than once by taking someone at face value. And once you stand to lose your good standing and your reputation because you've backed up some woo-woo stuff for which there was no factual evidence, and it later on turned out to have been a hoax, you become a lot more careful, I can guarantee you that.

Take it from me. Or not. The prerogative is yours, of course. :hmm:

These thoughts are the exact reason the only things I have as 4+ sigma (standard deviations) above 50% being true are those things I have personally seen or have derived from things I have seen. I have high probability guys (example Richard Dolan) who have tons of research, but unless they tie into my observations, their prob of being true exists on lesser probability levels.

...btw, I’m 99.44% sure Aragorn really exists even though we Skyped together... that's not 4 sigma


Um so which one am I on lol

Dumpy would you remember ?

Nope, I’m as confused as you :pc:

Aragorn
24th October 2017, 19:31
...btw, I’m 99.44% sure Aragorn really exists even though we Skyped together... that's not 4 sigma

Actually, it wasn't Skype, it was Zoom. :p :onthequite:

enjoy being
24th October 2017, 20:41
This seems the more appropriate thread to ask if anyone knows what sound a cosmic whistle makes? :confused:

Emil El Zapato
24th October 2017, 20:44
yeah, I think so, I've heard it smells like meat... :)

Fred Steeves
24th October 2017, 21:24
This seems the more appropriate thread to ask if anyone knows what sound a cosmic whistle makes? :confused:

I believe that would be the sound of one hand clapping :)

Dumpster Diver
24th October 2017, 22:26
Actually, it wasn't Skype, it was Zoom. :p :onthequite:

Probability just dropped to 98.76%

WantDisclosure
25th October 2017, 09:52
I have high probability guys (example Richard Dolan) who have tons of research, but unless they tie into my observations, their prob of being true exists on lesser probability levels.
I think there are three choices. We can believe, disbelieve, or be neutral.

I think we need much more neutrality when it comes to the new information coming out these days that boggles the mind, because it takes time, patience, and courage to process it all.

Dreamtimer
25th October 2017, 12:17
Neutral is interesting. People are emotional and intuitive and generally not neutral about things.

The idea of taking a wait and see attitude works better for me. Maybe I'm super skeptical, maybe I totally want something to be true. So I wait and see.

I'd love to believe there's a secret space program and all kinds of interesting people from other worlds and tech that will provide food and energy to everyone. And thus I'm a sucker for all these stories. It's very important to keep the critical thinking skills up.

To criticize an action or word or deed is not the same as maligning a person. It's very important to keep that distinction in mind.

WantDisclosure
25th October 2017, 12:27
The idea of taking a wait and see attitude works better for me. Maybe I'm super skeptical, maybe I totally want something to be true. So I wait and see.
That is actually another way of putting what I meant.

Don't call someone a liar or impugn their motives because what they're saying is paradigm-shifting and causes cognitive dissonance.


And thus I'm a sucker for all these stories.
In my opinion, all of us are worried in varying degrees about embarrassing ourselves by being fooled.

Dreamtimer
25th October 2017, 12:36
I just don't want to waste the energy being fooled and believing nonsense. I don't care much about embarrassment. I'm old enough to have had enough of that to not care anymore. People can be very foolish and I have learned not to have too much emotion invested in what people think. They judge and jump to conclusions. The most important concern is to keep myself in a position where I can be true to myself, speak my mind, and not be at the whim of someone who could hurt me because they don't like what I say.

I have no desire to be at odds with people. I still believe I could be friends with almost anyone. But of course that's not really true, because many don't want that themselves. People need drama and foils and attention.

WantDisclosure
25th October 2017, 12:58
I still believe I could be friends with almost anyone.

Anything I say on this forum about the secret space program or any other public affairs topic has nothing to do with friendship.

I'm not here for friendship.

I'm here to try to help uncover government lies so that we can all put our heads together to make this a better world.

Aragorn
25th October 2017, 13:13
Anything I say on this forum about the secret space program or any other public affairs topic has nothing to do with friendship.

I'm not here for friendship.

I'm here to try to help uncover government lies so that we can all put our heads together to make this a better world.

But what would this "better world" look like without friendship? How could this ever become a better world without that the heart gets to speak?

Dreamtimer
25th October 2017, 13:15
Have you read much of Dolan's work, Keep Trying? Richard Dolan in his efforts to debunk the field has instead come to the conclusion that there is probably a Breakaway Civilization and perhaps several SSPs. I haven't read his work so much as listened to a large variety of interviews. He speaks well and has done a lot of research.

WantDisclosure
25th October 2017, 15:01
But what would this "better world" look like without friendship? How could this ever become a better world without that the heart gets to speak?

Absolutely, and I express friendship in my appreciation shown to members who post words of wisdom and wonderful links that I benefit from and follow up on.

But I'm not here for friendship. I will call things as I see them. And I will defend public figures that I think are being unjustly ridiculed. I disagree with people who believe that public figures are fair game and should not be given the same courtesy as forum members.

WantDisclosure
25th October 2017, 15:10
Have you read much of Dolan's work, Keep Trying? Richard Dolan in his efforts to debunk the field has instead come to the conclusion that there is probably a Breakaway Civilization and perhaps several SSPs. I haven't read his work so much as listened to a large variety of interviews. He speaks well and has done a lot of research.
I have not read any of his books, but I have listened to numerous interviews of him also. He has made a colossal contribution to ufology. He coined the term Breakaway Civilization which is apt.

But right now I'm very irritated with him, however, for his downright arrogant statements made at the roundtable at the MUFON conference recently.

Just because he has no experience with Draco reptilians doesn't mean that Corey Goode and others have not. He needs to stick with what he knows and respect the rights of others to speak their truth.

Dumpster Diver
25th October 2017, 16:49
Dolan has the academic persona. His evidence based approach is needed but he throws rocks at anyone who exhibits non-evidence methods so he tends to go after folks who use softer subjective methods. I also find it a bit grating, but I like the evidence as I tend to use both objective and subjective approaches in my work. I'm really glad he has gotten away from UFO work and into False-Flags as the UFO field has been beaten to death. Also, if the muggles can bite down on a False Flag, it may be the eye-opener we need to get the public "on board" as UFOs have become so mainstream they blend into the woodwork.

WantDisclosure
25th October 2017, 17:00
Dolan has the academic persona. His evidence based approach is needed but he throws rocks at anyone who exhibits non-evidence methods so he tends to go after folks who use softer subjective methods. I also find it a bit grating, but I like the evidence as I tend to use both objective and subjective approaches in my work. I'm really glad he has gotten away from UFO work and into False-Flags as the UFO field has been beaten to death. Also, if the muggles can bite down on a False Flag, it may be the eye-opener we need to get the public "on board" as UFOs have become so mainstream they blend into the woodwork.

Have you been watching his show on Gaia? I haven't.

I tell you what. If he gets to work on Las Vegas and makes a significant contribution, I will be very grateful.

Aragorn
25th October 2017, 17:05
But I'm not here for friendship.

With all due respect, that's your first mistake. And it's a pretty big one too.


I will call things as I see them.

But... So do we. And yet you object when we do that. In other words, you are maintaining double standards. And that's not fair.


And I will defend public figures that I think are being unjustly ridiculed.

As Dreamtimer already said...:




To criticize an action or word or deed is not the same as maligning a person. It's very important to keep that distinction in mind.
... And I absolutely agree with her.


I disagree with people who believe that public figures are fair game and should not be given the same courtesy as forum members.

Public figures who persistently proclaim themselves to be truth brokers without offering up the slightest bit of evidence should be scrutinized, and even avoided if at all possible.

Anyone can set up a website and a YouTube channel and proclaim themselves the purveyors of truth, and if you fall into that without even needing evidence — especially in this day and age of mis- and disinformation and fake news — then you are lining up to become a cult member. And we've all seen to what that leads.

Look, you claim that Corey Goode's testimony would be true, and that he's being brave coming out of the closet with his information like that, even though he hasn't provided a shred of evidence of its veracity. Well, I am telling you here and now that it's not true, and that Corey is either badly delusional, or he's making stuff up as he goes along — and he has certainly had more than enough time to concoct his story, as well as that during his tenure as a member of Project Avalon, he had also been a witness to how other storytellers operate. But it's one of those two, or perhaps a mix of both.

I have known and interacted with Corey, and I have heard his false allegations that the then-staff of The One Truth had been taken over by Ruiner followers — which was a flagrant lie, because there were only three people in the mod room at the time, Malc and myself included, and none of us had ever even been remotely interested in the Ruiner's fairy tales.

Here's another story for you. It's no secret that Bill Ryan and Christine Anderson aren't exactly the best of friends. Yet, Corey claimed that Bill Ryan had put a key logger on Christine's computer, and that he — i.e. Corey — was the one who had removed that key logger from her computer again. I have checked this story with Christine herself, and she stated that it's not true, and that it is typical for Corey to "put a spin on things" — Christine's own words.

You have not interacted with Corey, and you have not seen his paranoid-delusional and self-important behavior here. You have also not seen him aggrandize his story a little more every day, and then promote himself by way of poster images here on the forum, feeling all good about himself that David Wilcock and Michael Salla were willing to have him on their shows. He was on his way of becoming a star, and he was so proud of it that he couldn't even hide it anymore. And we've had his wife here as a member as well, and she demanded preferential treatment from us. Which we weren't going to give her, and so she left again, with a few sneers at the management on her way out.

Yes, there most likely is a secret space program. Very likely indeed. But no, Corey Goode is not and has never been a member of that, and he most certainly wouldn't be the spokesperson/delegate whom an advanced species would choose for conveying that all-important message to humanity that humanity has already been aware of for hundreds of years, which is that we need to change our ways or that we're headed for damnation. :rolleyes:

I am sorry to have to be so blunt — seriously, I am, because I don't like doing this — but please, for your own good, do yourself a big favor and wake up! These people are playing you, and meanwhile they are very happy about any donations you would be sending them — and which they are so eagerly asking for. Corey was already fishing for donations while he was still a member here, and one of his followers then posted something along the lines of "Come on people, let's donate 'til it hurts."


:fpalm:

And then there's the age-old excuse of "Oh, but they have given up their job(s), and they need money to feed themselves." Yeah, right. I'm a disabled person and last time I checked, I still need to feed myself as well, but thanks to my government, I am struggling to survive, while the king's younger brother has just received a raise greater than my annual income, paid for from our taxes. You don't see me asking for donations. No, I am sitting here at my computer in pain every day, trying to make both The One Truth and our sister forum Eye-Rise (http://eye-rise.com/forum/content.php) into even nicer places to be than they already are. But maybe that's because I care about what I do, and because I've got ethics.

At least when forum owners like Malc or Kathy put a donation button on their websites, then you know what that money is going to be used for. What has Corey given the world back for all the money he has already received from his followers?

Lastly, I will say this... You may think that I'm picking on you, but I am not. Honestly not. What I am trying to do, is get you to wake up to the inconsistencies in your modus operandi as a self-proclaimed researcher. I am trying to get you to recognize where and how it is that you're constantly putting yourself on the wrong track, so that you can get yourself on the right one after that.

Now, of course, you're not going to accept that, because it's coming from me, and you don't particularly like me . But if you're going to shoot the messenger rather than the message, then that in itself should be a clear enough signal to you that you are, indeed, on the wrong track.

And the first thing you should do, is stop revering all these "alt community" celebrities as if they are god's messengers. Because they're not. They are human beings, and some of them are seriously cognitively impaired, while others are sensationalists, and yet others are taking you for a ride so as to beat money out of your pockets.

Undoubtedly there will be government shills at large within this "alternative community", but — and you may quote me on this — none of them can generate as much confusion and misinformation as the "alternative community" itself. Humanity is its own biggest deceiver. It doesn't even need any help from the governments or the spooks in that.




You did after all thank a post in which somebody falsely accused me — and later on refused to provide evidence in support of his allegations — and demanded that I be fired from the staff, did you not?

Dumpster Diver
25th October 2017, 17:18
Have you been watching his show on Gaia? I haven't.

I tell you what. If he gets to work on Las Vegas and makes a significant contribution, I will be very grateful.

Yup, I dip into almost everything on Gaia TV except for "Yoga for Grognards". He hasn't broken open any earth shaking revelations yet. However, it is eye-opening for a newbie and perhaps, starting off, that is his audience.

Fred Steeves
26th October 2017, 01:34
Anything I say on this forum about the secret space program or any other public affairs topic has nothing to do with friendship.

I'm not here for friendship.

That's been obvious since day 1.



I'm here to try to help uncover government lies so that we can all put our heads together to make this a better world.

You've been doing everything but that, but you don't realize that do you?

WantDisclosure
26th October 2017, 19:56
Part 4:


Published on Oct 26, 2017

In part 4 of this five part interview series on the covert recruitment of Michael Gerloff into a Space Marines "20 and back" program, he discusses anomalies in his military documents. He believes these are breadcrumbs to his covert military service with the USMC and Army Rangers.

For article with documents referred to in this episode, please visit: http://exopolitics.org/anomalies-in-military-records-breadcrumbs-to-space-marines-service/

rph8Mg6JDTY

Dumpster Diver
26th October 2017, 20:12
With all due respect, that's your first mistake. And it's a pretty big one too.



But... So do we. And yet you object when we do that. In other words, you are maintaining double standards. And that's not fair.



As Dreamtimer already said...:




... And I absolutely agree with her.



Public figures who persistently proclaim themselves to be truth brokers without offering up the slightest bit of evidence should be scrutinized, and even avoided if at all possible.

Anyone can set up a website and a YouTube channel and proclaim themselves the purveyors of truth, and if you fall into that without even needing evidence — especially in this day and age of mis- and disinformation and fake news — then you are lining up to become a cult member. And we've all seen to what that leads.

Look, you claim that Corey Goode's testimony would be true, and that he's being brave coming out of the closet with his information like that, even though he hasn't provided a shred of evidence of its veracity. Well, I am telling you here and now that it's not true, and that Corey is either badly delusional, or he's making stuff up as he goes along — and he has certainly had more than enough time to concoct his story, as well as that during his tenure as a member of Project Avalon, he had also been a witness to how other storytellers operate. But it's one of those two, or perhaps a mix of both.

I have known and interacted with Corey, and I have heard his false allegations that the then-staff of The One Truth had been taken over by Ruiner followers — which was a flagrant lie, because there were only three people in the mod room at the time, Malc and myself included, and none of us had ever even been remotely interested in the Ruiner's fairy tales.

Here's another story for you. It's no secret that Bill Ryan and Christine Anderson aren't exactly the best of friends. Yet, Corey claimed that Bill Ryan had put a key logger on Christine's computer, and that he — i.e. Corey — was the one who had removed that key logger from her computer again. I have checked this story with Christine herself, and she stated that it's not true, and that it is typical for Corey to "put a spin on things" — Christine's own words.

You have not interacted with Corey, and you have not seen his paranoid-delusional and self-important behavior here. You have also not seen him aggrandize his story a little more every day, and then promote himself by way of poster images here on the forum, feeling all good about himself that David Wilcock and Michael Salla were willing to have him on their shows. He was on his way of becoming a star, and he was so proud of it that he couldn't even hide it anymore. And we've had his wife here as a member as well, and she demanded preferential treatment from us. Which we weren't going to give her, and so she left again, with a few sneers at the management on her way out.

Yes, there most likely is a secret space program. Very likely indeed. But no, Corey Goode is not and has never been a member of that, and he most certainly wouldn't be the spokesperson/delegate whom an advanced species would choose for conveying that all-important message to humanity that humanity has already been aware of for hundreds of years, which is that we need to change our ways or that we're headed for damnation. :rolleyes:

I am sorry to have to be so blunt — seriously, I am, because I don't like doing this — but please, for your own good, do yourself a big favor and wake up! These people are playing you, and meanwhile they are very happy about any donations you would be sending them — and which they are so eagerly asking for. Corey was already fishing for donations while he was still a member here, and one of his followers then posted something along the lines of "Come on people, let's donate 'til it hurts."


:fpalm:

And then there's the age-old excuse of "Oh, but they have given up their job(s), and they need money to feed themselves." Yeah, right. I'm a disabled person and last time I checked, I still need to feed myself as well, but thanks to my government, I am struggling to survive, while the king's younger brother has just received a raise greater than my annual income, paid for from our taxes. You don't see me asking for donations. No, I am sitting here at my computer in pain every day, trying to make both The One Truth and our sister forum Eye-Rise (http://eye-rise.com/forum/content.php) into even nicer places to be than they already are. But maybe that's because I care about what I do, and because I've got ethics.

At least when forum owners like Malc or Kathy put a donation button on their websites, then you know what that money is going to be used for. What has Corey given the world back for all the money he has already received from his followers?

Lastly, I will say this... You may think that I'm picking on you, but I am not. Honestly not. What I am trying to do, is get you to wake up to the inconsistencies in your modus operandi as a self-proclaimed researcher. I am trying to get you to recognize where and how it is that you're constantly putting yourself on the wrong track, so that you can get yourself on the right one after that.

Now, of course, you're not going to accept that, because it's coming from me, and you don't particularly like me . But if you're going to shoot the messenger rather than the message, then that in itself should be a clear enough signal to you that you are, indeed, on the wrong track.

And the first thing you should do, is stop revering all these "alt community" celebrities as if they are god's messengers. Because they're not. They are human beings, and some of them are seriously cognitively impaired, while others are sensationalists, and yet others are taking you for a ride so as to beat money out of your pockets.

Undoubtedly there will be government shills at large within this "alternative community", but — and you may quote me on this — none of them can generate as much confusion and misinformation as the "alternative community" itself. Humanity is its own biggest deceiver. It doesn't even need any help from the governments or the spooks in that.




You did after all thank a post in which somebody falsely accused me — and later on refused to provide evidence in support of his allegations — and demanded that I be fired from the staff, did you not?

...wow, I should be shaking you guys down for scheckels!

SEND $$$$!! Get a tour of DK Dumpy’s Arizona Bat Cave! This is a serious tour, only Bengies accepted.

enjoy being
26th October 2017, 20:21
I am still looking to buy me an authentic pair of secret space undies. Ya know, the ones with the sweet as little emblems and the attached orange safety whistle for when one falls overboard.

Dumpster Diver
26th October 2017, 20:59
I am still looking to buy me an authentic pair of secret space undies. Ya know, the ones with the sweet as little emblems and the attached orange safety whistle for when one falls overboard.

How about a black whistle with a bat emblem? Orange is for prison people or Dutch folks (same thing as The Netherlands is a Police State...I know, I lived there)

Emil El Zapato
26th October 2017, 21:02
I've got a 'key' encased in something transparent that was intended to be part of the shuttle but the best it did was get up into space for a short stay at the ISS. Make an offer...not really, It's on my fireplace mantle to stay.... :)


How about a black whistle with a bat emblem? Orange is for prison people or Dutch folks (same thing as The Netherlands is a Police State...I know, I lived there)

My nephew-in-law is a Niederlander and he would take great umbrage at that statement. He and a friend are always complaining Niederlanders don't get no respect. I say they don't deserve no respect! :)

Aragorn
26th October 2017, 21:03
[...] The Netherlands is a Police State...I know, I lived there

You do realize that you're the only one saying that, don't you? :D If it were a police state, then the Belgians and the French wouldn't be driving over to the Netherlands to buy their pot. :p





My nephew-in-law is a Niederlander and he would take great umbrage at that statement. He and a friend are always complaining Niederlanders don't get no respect. I say they don't deserve no respect! :)

It is spelled "Nederlander" — that first "e" is pronounced roughly similar to the "ay"-sound in English — or alternatively, "Hollander", even though the latter is technically incorrect verbiage, because Holland is a two-province region in The Netherlands. ;)


P.S.: I'm not a Dutchman, but my native tongue is the Belgian variant of Dutch. ;)

Emil El Zapato
26th October 2017, 21:40
That's funny Aragorn,

I traditionally am a very good speller (even though my keyboard has been betraying me) but I seem to have trouble with those countries up there...

I'll never forget when I was in high school my step-brother asked me to edit one of his compositions. I was a very bad student and he was just the opposite but what the heck I was a good speller. I turned Swede into Suede. I never forgave myself for being that ignorant and that was a long time ago. :)

I just looked it up though...it looks like Niederlander might be an acceptable variation.

Dumpster Diver
26th October 2017, 21:42
I've got a 'key' encased in something transparent that was intended to be part of the shuttle but the best it did was get up into space for a short stay at the ISS. Make an offer...not really, It's on my fireplace mantle to stay.... :)



My nephew-in-law is a Niederlander and he would take great umbrage at that statement. He and a friend are always complaining Niederlanders don't get no respect. I say they don't deserve no respect! :)

Well, all I can say is that I was attached to the Embassy staff at The Hague as diplomatic corps level 4. It was well known how the Dutch police worked within the embassy staff and I have a number of personal stories I can relate that show the workings of the Dutch Police State. Add to that my dealings as a recruited member of a NATO Counter Intelligence group out of Mons, Belgium which also got into how to deal with the Dutch police, if need be. Since I carried a Red official passport, I got away with a lot, and at times I pushed the boundaries, if only to show the Dutch police I knew the game.

By Police State I mean that everyone is under observation, and in some cases quite closely. This lead me to realize that they knew about the drug trade and human trafficking since they had to be involved in both. It was an open secret that no one talked about and to be sure, the Dutch Police were fairly discrete.

As for respect: I love the Dutch, the Dutch culture, everything Dutch. Their police are another matter.

Fred Steeves
26th October 2017, 22:25
As for respect: I love the Dutch, the Dutch culture, everything Dutch. Their police are another matter.

Interesting perspective on the Dutch police, I'll keep that in mind of something to look into.

So far as their culture goes I loved it over there both times, last visit in the early 2000's. I remember telling my wife while we were there that if I had my youth to do over again, I may just disappear into a place like Amsterdam for a spell.

Dumpster Diver
26th October 2017, 23:57
Interesting perspective on the Dutch police, I'll keep that in mind of something to look into.

So far as their culture goes I loved it over there both times, last visit in the early 2000's. I remember telling my wife while we were there that if I had my youth to do over again, I may just disappear into a place like Amsterdam for a spell.

Be aware that Amsterdam is NOT The Nederlands. Amsterdam is mostly an "open" tourist city where most anything goes and the police stay (mostly) hands off due to revenue generated. Rest of Holland is fairly conservative and sedate. The Dutch like to say, "party in Amsterdam, work in Rotterdam, sleep in Den Haag (The Hague)". Btw, I lived in the sleepy American Getto of Wassenaar.

Emil El Zapato
27th October 2017, 00:44
ok, here's the scoop on this guy: I've been listening to him on Howe's EarthFiles.

One of the common things regarding mental disorders that isn't often cited in media is called Co-Morbidity. Gerloff for starters is running for a congressional office and that should be scary enough.

It took me awhile to figure these guys out but I have it now. Two disorders at work: schizotypal personality disorder and Narcissistic personality disorder. It is the narcissism aspect that lets these people present themselves upfront to gullible people. And schizotypal disorder is what gives fuel to their fantasies. Again, according to self-assessment, this guy is the greatest thing, in fact, much greater than sliced bread... :)

He was discussing his visit with his 'brilliant' friend that worked at NASA to the facility. He also talked about what a good sense of humor the culture there had towards UFO's and Aliens. That is total bs. If any serious scientist or engineer even mentioned such a thing they would have been laughed out of the room and not because they thought it was funny. He made it sound as if UFO's and Aliens were jumping out of the corners but, of course, the friend couldn't just come out and say it because if he did he would have to be <fill in the blank>

Write this gentleman off before he shows up here peddling his wares. Likely he'll stick to all the backwoods folks in Utah, though!

He states in this presentation, I think it dates back to August 2016, that he never entered the SSP because he asked the wrong questions at his 'induction'.

WantDisclosure
1st November 2017, 13:51
Part 5:


Published on Nov 1, 2017

In this final episode of this five part interview series Michael Gerloff explains how his military and police career was inspired by his commitment to public service, and how this commitment has evolved to now revealing the truth about secret space programs. He emphasizes that during his covert service, he was officially sanctioned to come forward at this time with his disclosure testimony by a USMC Intelligence Group running the "Space Marines" .

Gerloff explains why it’s important for his brother and sisters in the military and police force to come forward to also reveal their knowledge of these programs, and why he is convinced that he continues to serve the public while pursuing full disclosure.

For article with documents referred to in this episode, please visit: http://exopolitics.org/public-service-disclosure-secret-space-programs/

rvZzti1W-tY

Emil El Zapato
1st November 2017, 14:01
A friend co-worker of mine was/is a Ranger Apache pilot. He and his crew would entertain themselves by buzzing illegal immigrants with FLIR equipment. He never even suggested this kind of thing might have happened, but then he might not...

Actually, I think it was a Chinook..

Octopus Garden
1st November 2017, 20:58
The Secret Space programme can only be dimly perceived based on circumstantial evidence and a certain amount of reason. Understanding what might be the motivation for the programme and following the money, help. But, personally, I would fade anybody who claims to be or have been part of the programme. It would be way above top secret and they would be pitched off a cliff, or defenestrated for even thinking about going public. It truly is a matter of national security that must be taken VERY seriously by the powers that be.