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Fred Steeves
5th March 2017, 19:13
Anyone who has ever studied Buddhist philosophy, will surely be aware of the idea of bardos. A basic quick read here if you are not:
http://www.spiritualtravel.org/OBE/afterdeath.html

The idea of a "Chapel Perilous" also strikes me as just another way of looking at bardos. If you're never come across CP, check it out it's quite interesting.


Chapel Perilous, like the mysterious entity called "I," cannot be located in the space-time continuum; it is weightless, odorless, tasteless and undetectable by ordinary instruments. Indeed, like the Ego, it is even possible to deny that it is there. And yet, even more like the Ego, once you are inside it, there doesn't seem to be any way to ever get out again, until you suddenly discover that it has been brought into existence by thought and does not exist outside thought. Everything you fear is waiting with slavering jaws in Chapel Perilous, but if you are armed with the wand of intuition, the cup of sympathy, the sword of reason, and the pentacle of valor, you will find there (the legends say) the Medicine of Metals, the Elixir of Life, the Philosopher's Stone, True Wisdom and Perfect Happiness.

That's what the legends always say, and the language of myth is poetically precise. For instance, if you go into that realm without the sword of reason, you will lose your mind, but at the same time, if you take only the sword of reason without the cup of sympathy, you will lose your heart. Even more remarkably, if you approach without the wand of intuition, you can stand at the door for decades never realizing you have arrived. You might think you are just waiting for a bus, or wandering from room to room looking for your cigarettes, watching a TV show, or reading a cryptic and ambiguous book. Chapel Perilous is tricky that way."
http://www.tekgnostics.com/CHAPEL.HTM

So anyway, back to bardos. Normally, the states of bardo one experiences are thought of as occurring in the period between physical death, and being re-born, with the future of our very being riding on decisions (or lack thereof) made moment by moment therein. What I wish to spotlight in this thread, is what I consider to be not only the missing bardo, but the most painful, challenging, and yes compelling of them all. "The Bardo", the granddaddy of them all, the period of time experienced between physical birth and death.

Just as in the bardo of Chapel Perilous, minus the wand of intuition, one may never even have a clue as to where they are, or what's really happening around them. We may as well think we're "waiting for a bus" etc., when actually, the most important opportunity we could ever dream of is floating on past like Santa's sleigh in a Christmas parade. Buh bye, see you next year...

And thus it goes. It's like a test, and tests must be studied for. In the case of traditional post death bardos, a lifetime of spiritual practice and meditation is a prerequisite to successful navigation through the many challenges and distractions, otherwise, one is hopelessly lost like driftwood on the high seas. Tossed to and fro with every next wave, the four winds, and at the mercy of whatever lifetime is thrown at them next. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The Bardo of this physical realm is no different, and our attention and reactions to it's many lures and distractions determines whether friend or foe. Embedded are cycles of increased intensity, great roving storms of emotion, and one of those cycles has recently rolled back around again. Have you noticed? If you are unaware of this storm then you have already been sucked up into it's vortex, if you *are* aware, then it's down to a test of your will and training as to whether you can withstand it, remain intact, and be all the stronger for it.

Pink Floyd told us "Welcome to the Machine", and I bid you "Welcome to The Bardo". From here on out every thought, every decision, every move, becomes more important than the last. Just as the true meaning of karma says, what happens next is your doing.

After thought: It doesn't really matter whether bardos actually exist or not, but it certainly is a good mental and spiritual exercise in how to look at our role here from a more introspective point of view. How much does that matter? As much as we want it to I reckon.


Cheers

Aianawa
5th March 2017, 19:38
Xlent post, just off to your link Fred, before though I have met a couple of people who have done the Bardo, another way maybe, will find out when at your link, they both did a 90 day meditation, had persons who cleaned them up at certain periods etc and both had huge consciousness shifts, they were Jose Arguelles and Bhagavan ( of Amma Bhagavan prominence ), both said they basically trained for the event, were well prepared, also from memory the bhudda boy in the tree in India did something like this also but differently from memory.

Aianawa
5th March 2017, 19:51
Okay I can see that the people I metioned above have chosen to put themselves in a Bardo state, a sorta dyiny state as such, the in between state, and likely the working or releasing of karma was the focus, mmmmm the living is a dying and the dying is a living lol,

This part > The soul experienced in spiritual travel is less likely to be disoriented by this inner torrent of psychic experience. To put it another way, while the spiritual traveler or yogi swims through the ocean of consciousness, the inexperienced soul may feel more like it is drowning in that ocean. But as with a drowning person, the most important thing is to have a direction in which to swim to safety. The point of orientation or goal for the person in the second bardo may be a deity, a mantra, a prayer, a heaven, a guide, or some similar spiritual goal but the spiritual traveler must be able to focus and move towards that goal using meditative techniques learned and practiced during their former life in the physical world. This is the active approach of the spiritual traveler. < may mean the focus can be death or a return focus to live imo.

This part imo gives better clarity to what can be achieved by people wishing to reincarnate while still continuing to live this life time >
The third and last stage of the bardo of the afterlife is the stage of reincarnation where the soul is pulled into another body to start a new life, often but not always in the physical world. Tibetan Buddhists believe that the most desirable world to be born in is the physical world, since it affords the most opportunity for spiritual growth and realization. The third bardo consists of a series of images determined by the soul's karma that lead to psychic vortices that draw the soul into a womb. The soul's reaction to the images (attraction or repulsion) determines which vortex the soul enters and in which womb the soul ends up. The Tibetan tradition gives detailed advice on which representations to choose and which to avoid in order to gain a desirable rebirth. Once reborn, the karma of impulse manifests to influence the person's actions and reactions in their new life.

Am enjoying the enquiry , this is a gem from Kiber >

Kabir, the Hindu-Muslim poet of India, talks about the afterlife in an ambiguous way describing it as the "city of death" which could be consistent with either the Tibetan or Spiritualist's view of the afterlife. He offers the following words which support the notion that a person who is limited in life will also be limited in death.

O friend! Hope for Him whilst you live, know while you live, understand while you live:
for in life deliverance abides.
If your bonds be not broken whilst living, what hope of deliverance in death?
It is but an empty dream that the soul shall have union with Him because it has passed from the body:
If He is found now, He is found them,
If not, we do but go to dwell in the city of Death.
If you have union now, you shall have it hereafter.
Bathe in the Truth, know the true Guru, have faith in the true Name.
Kabir says:
It is the spirit of the quest that helps;
I am the slave of the Spirit of the quest.

Dreamtimer
5th March 2017, 19:56
"This life is a bardo," fits well with "When we die we wake from the dream".

After waking from the dream we choose (maybe) where/when we go next.

"Roving storms of emotion," I like that phrase.

Aianawa
5th March 2017, 19:58
Hi DT, life is the unknown Bardo ?, sorta ?

sandy
6th March 2017, 01:46
Aianawa.....I think differently to life is the unknown Bardo??

IMO....it may be the unknown Bardo only if living it "unconsciously and unaware"................. otherwise, when one is aware of constant losses throughout unforgiving constant change, then death can be an everyday occurence in many ways...

what say you about this theory of mine...:-)

Aianawa
6th March 2017, 08:32
There is meat in your theory imo also.

Maggie
6th March 2017, 16:50
I have thought of life lately as "The Borderland".
It also might be called Purgatory?
" having the quality of cleansing or purifying."
We know how religion takes ideas and twists them.
Time really does not exist.
Or another way of saying it, we are always in purgatory until pure?
The issue is how do we KNOW what needs purifying?
If we realize what the priority is now... to get in touch with what needs cleaning.
That is the key IMO.
SHAMANIC philosophies do intimate...like Hooponopono for example.
We are each to travel to the underworld to reclaim all of ourselves.
To become unified.
To take responsibility for what we do.
To clean up our act.

The lessons revolve around us at all times.
The Borderland is our land.


"Games Without Frontiers"

Hans plays with Lotte, Lotte plays with Jane
Jane plays with Willi, Willi is happy again
Suki plays with Leo, Sacha plays with Britt
Adolf builds a bonfire, Enrico plays with it
-Whistling tunes we hid in the dunes by the seaside
-Whistling tunes we're kissing baboons in the jungle
It's a knockout
If looks could kill, they probably will
In games without frontiers-war without tears
Games without frontiers-war without tears

Jeux sans frontieres

Andre has a red flag, Chiang Ching's is blue
They all have hills to fly them on except for Lin Tai Yu
Dressing up in costumes, playing silly games
Hiding out in tree-tops shouting out rude names
-Whistling tunes we hide in the dunes by the seaside
-Whistling tunes we're kissing baboons in the jungle
It's a knockout
If looks could kill they probably will
In games without frontiers-wars without tears
If looks could kill they probably will
In games without frontiers-war without tears
Games without frontiers-war without tears

Jeux sans frontieres

3xZmlUV8muY



I believe that the intention is as good as done.
It is very in my face that what I believe changes the scenery.
And NOW it is very significant TO PRACTICE changing beliefs in real "time".
No more wars, no more deadly "looks" is the goal.

I cannot deny it that my own expectations shape the surroundings.. that is EXPERIENCE.
This is occurring more and more as I am aware it is occurring......
And I am less and less in denial of HOW what I am contributing "goes around".
Do I "like it" ? NO because it is clear I am NOT pure.

I admit that in my life I have done some wicked daggery meanness...."what" if I experienced it, would be hurtful.
But now I feel it more. I feel the low grade muckiness and wanting to hurt that is underneath.
EGADS, that is mine?
ME?
Yep.

People who have been "OOB" say that we must pass through a "place" where all we have "done" is felt as if happening to us.
In some ways this is already happening. meanness feels more and more excruciating to me, like a nausea.

I think the golden rule reveals the most important words of caution.
Avoid creating that which one will find horrifying and create more of what one would appreciate.
You cannot "control" the appearance all the time BUT IMO you can learn to control the feeling aspects.
So you start feeling nausea about doing things that would hurt.
So for instance, a little thing like treating another with disrespect "FELT" causes nausea....and on and on through the day.

That is what I believe empathy does, we know how our actions "feel" to others as if we were the ones experiencing them.
The clarity increases as we traverse the Borderland.

In the "Borderland", can we expiate these actions with our own work now?
IMO this is THE reason to have a body experience in that we have some capacity to deal with our own mistakes.
We "think" there is a past but there is not.
But also everything does not "happen" all at once so we can focus.
Do deliberately NOW what one would have done and also FORGIVE oneself through whatever method works.

The "thing" about this "Borderland" is that we can pass through "individual" events without feeling them real BUT IMO, the general climate is always apparent: that so pervasive state of feeling/ thinking as we are being.
So "in general", we can know that IF we are deliberately joyful, the general climate may have rough spots but become joyful.

Can we give up our silly games of war ETC.?
I am sure SOME do not wish at all to stop playing.
That is just part of being in the Bardo.
Don't stop until played out, until Pilgrim tires of wandering, until bored.
So again the religion makes it seem like we are somehow victimized.
We who have anger have LOVED anger.
We who have had greed loved being that way.
Be honest with what you have loved and the you are that much less lost.
To give ALL THAT STUFF (the flags, the monies, the fame, the "power") we have loved up?
It's the choice of the lifetime (or next or next or next)

The Bardo is just the best place to be if you have clues showing up to lead the way!
The best of times and the worst of times all available.
Choice and free will increasingly fluid and feeling fine knowing what is up.
That is what I live up to these days.....
It is always refining...never "done".
After all, I am in the borderland.