The Avalon Files

[Fred Steeves]

So this is just a quickie little FYI posting. Time is rolling on as time does, and I'm surmising that precious few members these days have any clue as to the history involved in this particular branch of Forum Land. For anyone interested, Nexus was the original spin off from Bill Ryan's original Project Avalon after the great Charles/Atticus debacle (similar to it's former incarnation as Project Serpo), and if I recall correctly TOT was the second.

Anyway Richard (former PA admin), the founder and admin of Nexus, compiled and left behind a chronology of much of what transpired back in 2011, when PA literally split in two, the reverberations of which still extend outwards to this day through Skype, email, and many other small forums scattered about. The underground is still alive and well, and that's a very good thing.

There's not much left of ole Nexus any more, but back in the day it was quite the wild ride there. I'm very glad I was there for that ride. It was quite the education, and I'm thankfully still in contact with many of those members. "The Avalon Files" leaves behind a trail of history that was fresh in the minds of a great many people then, for those curious minded of forum history it is *well worth* a thorough perusing. And as the old saying goes, those that don't know their history are bound to repeat it...

I had pretty much just fallen off the pumpkin truck at the time, was very green and wet behind the ears. When you see old posts of mine there, it's a good gauge of comparison for how much some of what are now today's old forum dogs, have grown and changed since then.

Cheers

http://nexusxroads.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?55-The-Avalon-Files

[Gio]

Thanks Fred for the thread ...

Here's some more early original PA renegade offshoots forums to add here as well ...

The Altra Vista Forum (Nov 2008-2010) - which many banned former members
descended upon - which i was member, but later (ironically) banned there
myself for remaining an ongoing member of PA ... Which later it became a
private (owner paranoid) forum ... Lots of people from the original Project Camelot
whistle blowers such as John Lear etc ...

And of course The Mist Of Avalon (http://mistsofavalon.heavenforum.org/forum) started (April 2010) by Carol the original PA Coordinator ...

And last but not lest - the small but solid group of former PA members at The Force Is WithIn You (http://theforceiswithinyou.twilightlegend.net/) (2010) ...

Note: I also was a member at the Nexus Forum (http://nexusxroads.info/forum/showthread.php?10054-Up-at-the-Ranch-%28James-Gilliland-and-Trout-Lake%29&highlight=ranch) and also stay in contact with some of the old crew there and all the others mentioned above.

Looking forward to further contributions here ...

[Maggie]

old forum dogs, have grown and changed since then.
Cheers


I used to read PA and then joined in around the time Bill Brock(whatever) was popular for a minute. The reason I recall that is because one of my first posts was that I could not perceive him as being truthful and wondered why he had grabbed people's attention?

One thing I have been thinking about is the build up to the big event expected in 2012. I never really expected there to be one special day when everything changed. It seemed to me that this is an era when we COULD finally develop the path of seeing new ideas and choosing the best of possibilities and applying them. I still look to forums as a source of information.

[Aragorn]

For anyone interested, Nexus was the original spin off from Bill Ryan's original Project Avalon after the great Charles/Atticus debacle (similar to it's former incarnation as Project Serpo), and if I recall correctly TOT was the second.

I'm not sure whether The One Truth would have been the second offshoot from Project Avalon, Fred. I think there may have been a few others in the meantime as well, such as The Mists Of Avalon.

I also seem to remember that Bill Ryan himself posted something on the main Project Avalon website — not on the forum itself — about the big schism that had occurred between himself and Stephen "Charles"/"Atticus" Hodges. As I understand it, "Atticus" took several Avalon members — including Ruth, Bill Ryan's Austrian assistant and then-girlfriend — with him over to another forum. Would that have been the Nexus forum then, or was this still another one?

By the way, some of our former staff members (e.g. Spiral) and one of our current staff members (i.e. Dreamtimer) are also not former Project Avalon members, but rather former Project Camelot members, and that also goes for many of our regular members. And so one could say that, in a way, Project Avalon itself would be an offshoot of Project Camelot — which it was, in essence, even though Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy were still working together as interviewers when Project Avalon was created.

As you probably know already, I myself am an ex-Avalon member, but my residence there was rather short. I joined up at Project Avalon on 14.01.2014, and I was banned from there (and by The Hat Man™ himself) on 18.03.2015. Knowing that I was about to get banned from there, I joined up here at The One Truth on 17.03.2015 as per a recommendation by DNA.

Many of my former Avalon friends were registered here as well, and from day one, I was made to feel very welcome here by the residents and the staff alike. The atmosphere was completely different here, and I've never felt a need to look back. :) I don't even know the official reason as to why I was banned from Project Avalon, because I've never bothered trying to log back in there. :p (I do of course know the actual reason why I was banned, but I'm sure that Señor Ryan will have put a nice spin on that, such as "working against the forum", or something of the likes. He is after all so very good at spin-doctoring, isn't he? :p)


There's not much left of ole Nexus any more [...]

As I understand it, Richard ran into the problem of not being able to financially support the Nexus forum anymore, and even though he put in a few requests for member donations, not enough members cared to donate, leaving Richard no other option but to call it quits.

Or at least, that was the official story, because if Richard stopped paying for the forum, then who's paying for it now? It may not be active anymore as a forum, but apparently it's still online, which means that somebody must be paying for the domain name and the web hosting.





Here's some more early original PA renegade offshoots forums to add here as well ...

The Alta Vista Forum (Nov 2008-2010) - which many banned former members
descended upon - which i was member, but later (ironically) banned there
myself for remaining an ongoing member of PA ... Which later it became a
private (owner paranoid) forum ... Lots of people from the original Project Camelot
whistle blowers such as John Lear etc ...

And of course The Mist Of Avalon (http://mistsofavalon.heavenforum.org/forum) started (April 2010) by Carol the original PA Coordinator ...

And last but not lest - the small but solid group of former PA members at The Force Is WithIn You (http://theforceiswithinyou.twilightlegend.net/) (2010) ...

[...]

Did the Imaginative Worlds forum also start off as an offshoot from Project Avalon, by any chance? I am not and have never been a member there — although I have visited that forum a few times in the past — but I did notice that they have many members in common with both The One Truth and Project Avalon.

[Gio]

Did the Imaginative Worlds forum also start off as an offshoot from Project Avalon, by any chance? I am not and have never been a member there — although I have visited that forum a few times in the past — but I did notice that they have many members in common with both The One Truth and Project Avalon.

That's a new for me, note none of the posting avatar names listed do not ring any bells
for me, but of course there could always be former PA members there about's ?

[Gio]

Do note Aragorn ...

Scientologist trainers are excellent spin doctors ...

Couldn't resist ... :)

http://projectavalon.net/Amazon/Bill_Ryan_by_waterfall.jpg

[Aragorn]

That's a new for me, note none of the posting avatar names listed do not ring any bells
for me, but of course there could always be former PA members there about's ?

Well, many of the people who are (or have been) registered at Imaginative Worlds and who are (or have been) members of The One Truth and/or Project Avalon have indeed chosen to use different screen names.

One reason — albeit not the only reason, I'm sure — is the fact that Bill Ryan obsessively keeps a list of all Project Avalon members who are also registered here at The One Truth , and possibly also of Avalon members who are registered at yet other forums. Bill Ryan has already banned members for speaking out against either himself or against Project Avalon over at other forums, so it would make sense, at least in the case of people who are still registered at Project Avalon, that they would be going undercover while posting at other forums. We do have a couple of members here who are also registered at Project Avalon and who do indeed use another screen name here than they do over there.



We have been informed of such by former Project Avalon staff members.

[heyokah]

Do note Aragorn ...

Scientologist trainers are excellent spin doctors ...

Couldn't resist ... :)

http://projectavalon.net/Amazon/Bill_Ryan_by_waterfall.jpg

Oh my.... did he also put on a bra? ;)

[Fred Steeves]

I'm not sure whether The One Truth would have been the second offshoot from Project Avalon, Fred. I think there may have been a few others in the meantime as well, such as The Mists Of Avalon.

I could very well have that timing wrong, I guess the important thing is only that it was in the mix somewhere. I do recall it caused quite the stir though.


As I understand it, Richard ran into the problem of not being able to financially support the Nexus forum anymore, and even though he put in a few requests for member donations, not enough members cared to donate, leaving Richard no other option but to call it quits.

Or at least, that was the official story, because if Richard stopped paying for the forum, then who's paying for it now? It may not be active anymore as a forum, but apparently it's still online, which means that somebody must be paying for the domain name and the web hosting.

It was complicated, with Nexus itself splintering off into oblivion in yet other forums. Richard has found another way to keep it afloat on his own, but it really is pretty much good as dead any more. Some of the old veterans pop in every now and then, but that's about it.


[...]Did the Imaginative Worlds forum also start off as an offshoot from Project Avalon, by any chance?

IW was a totally independent entity from this neck of the woods. When TOT itself had that big explosion during Corey's blue bird show, that was a resting place the roving band of ex members found to roost for a time. That was yet another very interesting time.

[DNA]

Did the Imaginative Worlds forum also start off as an offshoot from Project Avalon, by any chance? I am not and have never been a member there — although I have visited that forum a few times in the past — but I did notice that they have many members in common with both The One Truth and Project Avalon.

There was an exodus of folks who left TOT in the summer of 2015. These folks posted on Imaginative Worlds for a while.
I think this is the only connection.

[Gio]

Well, many of the people who are (or have been) registered at Imaginative Worlds and who are (or have been) members of The One Truth and/or Project Avalon have indeed chosen to use different screen names.

One reason — albeit not the only reason, I'm sure — is the fact that Bill Ryan obsessively keeps a list of all Project Avalon members who are also registered here at The One Truth , and possibly also of Avalon members who are registered at yet other forums. Bill Ryan has already banned members for speaking out against either himself or against Project Avalon over at other forums, so it would make sense, at least in the case of people who are still registered at Project Avalon, that they would be going undercover while posting at other forums. We do have a couple of members here who are also registered at Project Avalon and who do indeed use another screen name here than they do over there.



We have been informed of such by former Project Avalon staff members.


Yes sad but very true ...
Again paranoia is very much a trademark of the OWNER'S mindset there

[modwiz]

I have removed my previous post to provide greater comfort for the dual citizens. I want them to feel comfortable, and safe, being here. Nuff said.

I leave Aragorn to make his own decision.

[Aragorn]

[...]

Between this and the women without shrubberies, you've had me rolling on the floor laughing twice already today, Brother. :p :ha:

[modwiz]

Between this and the women without shrubberies, you've had me rolling on the floor laughing twice already today, Brother. :p :ha:

Thanks. I do not expect any "dual citizens" to thank my post. The wrath of Souron would come down on them. The Hat sees all. (spelling is as intended. Based on the word sour)

[DNA]

Wow, I didn't know this was going to turn into a let's dump all over Bill Ryan thread.
I don't want any part of it.
I feel I've been around long enough to know a few of the perceived mistakes that have been made.
I've made a few myself.
But given a long enough time line we are all going to screw up. Every single one of us.
I feel Bill Ryan's intentions are for the far greater portion benevolent and aimed for the greater good.
People are frail creatures when it comes to our feelings our emotions and how we perceive actions we interprete as offensive.

A couple of months ago I posted on a thread over at Avalon, and I had the entire mod staff, Bill Ryan himself and not a few Avalon members all over me. I had given my personal take on Bob Dean being a sociopath. I think he is one. I wasn't really looking to paint Bob Dean in a bad light, I wasn't looking to dump on Bob Dean, it was my objective to show how sociopaths are quite capable of doing good, and in fact they carry such powers of charm and charisma as to be able to do amazing things. And try as I might to explain this, no one could get past the word "sociopath".
This word served as a trigger for Bill Ryan, and once he voices his opposition and condemnation the Mods and everyone else consider you fair game, you are no longer protected by the forum guidelines. I was grilled pretty harshly.
I didn't post on Avalon for a month and seriously considered leaving the forum over the incident.
But I didn't.
Everyone is prone to over react from time to time, and everyone is going to be wrong from time to time.
I felt Bill was wrong in his not letting me explain the point of my comments, and I absolutely felt he was wrong for making me a target on a forum with guidelines that are supposed to prohibit such.
But at the end of the day the guy is only human, and I've by far benefited from his research and opinions far more than I've had to endure a few barbs.

For those who have had some bad experiences and feel wronged let me express a personal apology and a sincere hope for whatever wrongs happened to be healed. The guy is human and of course is going to make mistakes, all in all I think most of the folks here have in one way or another benefitted greatly from his forum and in some ways still continue to benefit.

This is all I have to say on this.
Have a good day.
DNA/Marcus

[Gio]

Wow, I didn't know this was going to turn into a let's dump all over Bill Ryan thread.
I don't want any part of it.
I feel I've been around long enough to know a few of the perceived mistakes that have been made.
I've made a few myself.
But given a long enough time line we are all going to screw up. Every single one of us.
I feel Bill Ryan's intentions are for the far greater portion benevolent and aimed for the greater good.
People are frail creatures when it comes to our feelings our emotions and how we perceive actions we interprete as offensive.

A couple of months ago I posted on a thread over at Avalon, and I had the entire mod staff, Bill Ryan himself and not a few Avalon members all over me. I had given my personal take on Bob Dean being a sociopath. I think he is one. I wasn't really looking to paint Bob Dean in a bad light, I wasn't looking to dump on Bob Dean, it was my objective to show how sociopaths are quite capable of doing good, and in fact they carry such powers of charm and charisma as to be able to do amazing things. And try as I might to explain this, no one could get past the word "sociopath".
This word served as a trigger for Bill Ryan, and once he voices his opposition and condemnation the Mods and everyone else consider you fair game, you are no longer protected by the forum guidelines. I was grilled pretty harshly.
I didn't post on Avalon for a month and seriously considered leaving the forum over the incident.
But I didn't.
Everyone is prone to over react from time to time, and everyone is going to be wrong from time to time.
I felt Bill was wrong in his not letting me explain the point of my comments, and I absolutely felt he was wrong for making me a target on a forum with guidelines that are supposed to prohibit such.
But at the end of the day the guy is only human, and I've by far benefited from his research and opinions far more than I've had to endure a few barbs.

For those who have had some bad experiences and feel wronged let me express a personal apology and a sincere hope for whatever wrongs happened to be healed. The guy is human and of course is going to make mistakes, all in all I think most of the folks here have in one way or another benefitted greatly from his forum and in some ways still continue to benefit.

This is all I have to say on this.
Have a good day.
DNA/Marcus



Thanks DNA ...

Now that's what i call a disclaimer ...

And i do understand your duel forum dicey predicament ...

I remarkably avoided that bias dance for many years ...

But not anymore ...

Bill and Company screwed and hurt a lot of good people !

:laurel-and-hardy-da

[modwiz]

Wow, I didn't know this was going to turn into a let's dump all over Bill Ryan thread.


Like taking a dump, the intestines are now emptied, bidet has been used and it's on to better things. There is a lot of grey in things and BR is hardly an evil fellow. However, his personal animus towards certain people will create a reaction when the topic of PA arises. The urge to vomit or purge one's bowels is just natural for some of us. That part of being human, ya know?

UPDATE: I have removed the previous post, explained here. http://jandeane81.com/threads/10481-The-Avalon-Files?p=841963688&viewfull=1#post841963688

[Gio]

Please note, from my heart ... https://r29.imgfast.net/users/2911/23/55/04/smiles/3562770023.gif

Project Avalon has always been about the Membership ...
Who have generously supported both the forum and
Bill Ryan over the last seven years.

[modwiz]

Please note, from my heart ... https://r29.imgfast.net/users/2911/23/55/04/smiles/3562770023.gif

Project Avalon has always been about the Membership ...
Who have generously supported both the forum and
Bill Ryan over the last seven years.


I think it can be said with confidence that many of us have a heart on for BR.:ttr: Shit flinging is not hate, nor is it meant to be. It washes off. In many ways it is man talk and locker room insult humor. A way to let off steam and a two way street sort of thing.

It's all Fred's fault. Yeah, that's the ticket.:rolleyes:

[Gio]

Personally,

I lost respect for Bill Ryan when he allowed his minion's to openly
attack his spouse Christine publicly on his privately owned and
controlled forum. Even if he asked his minions not to do it - He is
still complicit in it all.

For no matter what transpired personally between them both in
regards to he said she said ... It had no place on the Avalon forum.
No man can truly call himself a gentleman, who silently stands by
and quietly sanctions that kind of public ridicule ... By doing such
he most definitely brought down the purposeful good work and spirit
of Avalon and its entire Membership... Enough said.

Sending much love to my fellow human being trying to become -

Bill Ryan.

[jonsnow]

Well Giovanni money was involved with Christine the strange thing was the police were not involved I never understood why not things accusations were thrown around .

There was our is more to this topic than I know so I will go no further wish both people well.

I never believed that the topic should be discussed on a open forum private personal stuff.

[Dreamtimer]

I personally was very hesitant to join any forum or group and lurked here and there for a few years. The only forum I joined was this one. I've looked at many threads at PA. It was Corey and the Blue Birds who put up the road sign pointing to TOT. I lost interest in him and his whistleblowing pretty quickly.

Many of the other names are unfamiliar to me in any great detail. It'll be interesting reading the Avalon Files.

Have the years of experience made it any easier to sniff out the infiltrators and fake whistleblowers? Truth is sandwiched in lies pretty much everywhere as far as I'm concerned.

Thank Goodness for instincts.

[Aragorn]

Well, okay, let me say this then... You guys know that we have an invitation-only community group called Watchdog Task Force (http://jandeane81.com/group.php?groupid=6) here — this was officially announced (http://jandeane81.com/threads/9909-New-The-One-Truth-Initiative-The-Alt-Media-Watchdog) quite a while ago already. This Watchdog Task Force has not been active anymore since bsbray left The One Truth — because he was more or less the driving force behind it all — and at this point in time, I'm not sure yet on how things will be evolving with said group.

Nevertheless, up until bsbray's departure, the group had been working very diligently on what it had set out to do, and as such, we've been looking into many "alt media" personalities and their stories. One of the people we've been looking into is — yes — Bill Ryan, and yet another subject of our investigations is Simon Parkes. (There are several more, so this has nothing to do with egos, grudges or revenge.)

Due to bsbray having left us so suddenly, we never had a chance to draw up a final report in the format that we would have preferred, but the information is all there, and thus I can already share the following with you...











We have evidence that Bill Ryan was fully aware of how Simon Parkes was abusing his membership at Project Avalon for the sake of baiting and even psychologically forcing gullible women into sexual relationships, just as we have evidence that Bill Ryan knowingly and willingly allowed Simon Parkes to carry on with this predatory and "Illuminati sex magick"-inspired behavior.

In other words, when then-Avalon member Laura Heath started her thread over there called "What to do if you know that someone is spreading misinformation and is well known?", both Bill Ryan and the entire Project Avalon mod team knew exactly whom Laura was talking about, even though she had not mentioned anyone by name and had gone out of her way to remain as discreet as possible. Case in point: the thread was immediately moved to one of Project Avalon's members-only sections.

Furthermore, Laura was immediately attacked and her reliability and reputation were openly questioned. She was also given the advice to contact Bill Ryan, and Bill Ryan feigned ignorance about the identity of the person Laura was talking about. He repeated this feigned ignorance in the confrontation with myself later — the confrontation that ultimately led to my getting banned from Project Avalon. Laura herself was banned later as well.

And here's the reason why Bill Ryan and the Project Avalon moderators already knew... Simon Parkes had already threatened Bill Ryan and Project Avalon with a lawsuit earlier over similar allegations from other Avalon members.

Simon Parkes brought a lot of members (and their donations) to Project Avalon, and so instead of investigating and doing the right thing, Bill Ryan chose to send a PM to Simon Parkes with an apology on behalf of every member of Project Avalon, and would from there on simply turn a blind eye whenever people chose to speak out on account of their experiences with Simon Parkes. One highly reliable information source has even stated to me personally that Bill actually condoned Simon Parkes' sexual misconduct because — and I quote — "he has his own proclivities."

It was only still very recently that Bill Ryan changed his stance regarding Simon Parkes, after more and more evidence came to the surface regarding Simon Parkes' financial abuse of Avalon members, whom he was charging considerable amounts of money for soul readings and other counseling, only to then coldly ignore them and refuse to conduct any further communication with them.

Ultimately, Simon Parkes himself was driven into a corner — I'm not certain on the specifics behind that evolution — and he briefly had a note on his own website in which he apologized for having taken advantage of women, with the excuse that it was his dad, Anu, the Great White King of the Dracos, who had made him do it. The note was only up there for a very short time before it was removed again, but we have a screenshot of it.






The bottom line is that those who are defending Bill Ryan here are themselves still blinded by the man's light. Bill Ryan may have done good things, but that doesn't make him into a good person yet, and in my personal opinion, the worn-out phrase "He's only human" is a p*ss-poor excuse for the fact that the man is a certifiable dark triad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) — a personality type with a combination of psychopathy, Machiavellianism and narcissism.

So — and this is specifically directed at my friend Marcus (DNA) — if you're going to call Bob Dean a sociopath (which he may be), then you must most certainly acknowledge that Bill Ryan is a sociopath as well. And a Machiavellian. And an obsessive-compulsive narcissist. And quite an opportunistic predator in his own right.

[Fred Steeves]

Wow, I didn't know this was going to turn into a let's dump all over Bill Ryan thread.
I don't want any part of it.

Neither do I. This thread is aimed more at the importance of studying past events, in order for one to better recognize the present. Patterns of behavior then begin to reveal themselves, and patterns of behavior tend to continue on into the future.


I feel Bill Ryan's intentions are for the far greater portion benevolent and aimed for the greater good.

Now that's a fine feeling to have, but have you actually done any research into his online history to either confirm or negate these feelings?


I had given my personal take on Bob Dean being a sociopath.

I saw that, what you did was dare call out someone who is in "The Club". You don't do that, the gate keepers don't like it.

Hey look, it's easy to mistake the pointing finger for being the moon itself. I'm not pointing at BR as the subject of this thread, I'm pointing at him as a poster child example for the turmoil, and disinformation, that is pandemic throughout this community in general. You have obviously seen some of it, but a part of you has to die off and fall away like dead skin, in order to start seeing "the rest of the story".

[Gio]

Back during the summer of 2011, I got to meet and spend several days with (and attend to) Mr Bob Dean ...
Note he was very much a real gentleman, and in my opinion was not lacking in his humanity ... :)


https://scontent.fsnc1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114017_1282973678431184_3680987326657736747_n.jp g?oh=62e49b058ce666c01f4f8437b86a3b0c&oe=5922A04C
Sharing his lunch with Jedar the wonder dog ...


https://scontent.fsnc1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/268190_177764848952078_4550035_n.jpg?oh=d05ea9e92d 1b053ba9761a82dde81099&oe=590DD899
At the campfire sharing some whiskey and cigars.

[Gio]

In general terms, one might say the modern world has been morphing into a sociopathic society since post WWII ... Attached and rooted into government, economics and educational systems ... I'll leave it up to each in deciding the origins of this 20th century ongoing phenomenon ... :rolleyes:

[Dreamtimer]

How do we heal?

I did my part in large measure by how I raised my son. Definitely not a sociopath. My husband is a better man for his years with me. Simple truth.

To make larger change we have to act in larger numbers. I still believe twelve is the magic number for us, rather than 100. (We don't need to wait for the 100th monkey).

[Dreamtimer]

Reading a thread on a letter written to Ms. Cassidy. At the heart of it is her support of someone who is possibly a predator. Fast forward to now, she's interviewing Mr. Parkes regularly. A pattern, then.

Listening to Cara St. Louis, she talks about certain individuals who are often at the same event and sharing stages as reptilian. They don't like to share the stage with her. Among these reptilians are the two mentioned above.

[Aragorn]

Reading a thread on a letter written to Ms. Cassidy. At the heart of it is her support of someone who is possibly a predator. Fast forward to now, she's interviewing Mr. Parkes regularly. A pattern, then.

Listening to Cara St. Louis, she talks about certain individuals who are often at the same event and sharing stages as reptilian. They don't like to share the stage with her. Among these reptilians are the two mentioned above.

Kerry Cassidy shows clear signs of Asperger syndrome and attention deficit disorder, as well as of psychopathy and narcissism. However, in spite of the latter two personality traits, I do believe that she herself wants and attempts to do what she perceives as The Right Thing™. Kerry is extremely gullible, and as such she buys into all of these woo-woo stories from individuals like Simon Parkes, Solaris Blueraven, Dutchinse, The Ruiner, Randy Cramer, Corey Goode, E'asha Ashayana — formerly known as Ashayana Deane, and before that by her legal name, Anna Hayes — et al.

However, Kerry Cassidy is still out there, looking for knowledge — or purported knowledge — and sharing/reporting her findings on her website. Bill Ryan on the other hand is very meticulous about what he shares and what he doesn't share. He's not trying to improve the world or fight evil. He's a very clever marketeer. Project Avalon provides him with the financial means to survive — and quite comfortably so — down in Ecuador. His role on the Avalon forum is just a stage performance for PR reasons. He's in it for himself, and for himself only.

[donk]

There was an exodus of folks who left TOT in the summer of 2015. These folks posted on Imaginative Worlds for a while.
I think this is the only connection.

Don't be so modest bro...way I member it, YOU brought us to that really solid (and older than PA and PC) Art Bell tribute forum, and were instrumental in getting its founder to allow us a place to vent...before you took a big dump on her and her forum when you got triggered in your perception on how she was running things

Your tune was way different back then my friend

Inphinet or something like that was Charles' hangout...would be interesting to hear from ol' Sam, I wonder what his version of this "history" is these days? He was pretty active there and a few others

The way Bill loses solid members, well...me anyway...maybe I'm unique, is that he creates a "safe" space to open up in a place where transparency is supposedly a value, only to carefully shape his character--which turns out to be a great dissappointment when you actually see his "real" interactions and treatment of others

Yeah he's only human. But he made a place for people to gather to talk about "truth" and personal responsibility. I think a lot of his lost membership is from seeing him (repeatedly) not living up to his own standards

[DNA]

The Simon thing bothered me very much. I brought the issue to Bill when I was made aware of the issue by yourself, this was probably January 2015. I brought the issue to Bill and then left Avalon because of the situation. And although it may have taken Bill a little more time than I would have liked, Avalon is a "No Simon Parks" zone right now. Now I do not own a forum and I do not know the nuances that go into something like this, but it appears that Bill felt he needed proof before he could go further and once he acquired such, he acted as he should have.
Folks who post pro-Simon rhetoric on Avalon now are taken to task pretty quick now.
And, I've even seen Bill try to educate Kerry Cassidy on the matter, although she seems pretty enamored with Simon Parks, and wouldn't hear Bill out on the subject, Bill still took Kerry to task over Simon, I was pretty proud of him.
I'm quite satisfied with how Bill is handling the Simon Parks situation now.

In so far as Christine is concerned, that is just none of my business and I do not care about it at all.
I have my own domestic situation to worry about and I'm not going to worry about a digital aquaintance's domestic problems.




The bottom line is that those who are defending Bill Ryan here are themselves still blinded by the man's light.
Life is never a question of black or white, life is always dealt in shades of grey. I'm not blind, I simply choose to accept people as a whole, and sometimes that includes the imperfections as well.


Bill Ryan may have done good things, but that doesn't make him into a good person

How are you going to pass judgement on a man you barely even know?



yet, and in my personal opinion, the worn-out phrase "He's only human" is a p*ss-poor excuse for the fact that the man is a certifiable dark triad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) — a personality type with a combination of psychopathy, Machiavellianism and narcissism.
Machiavellianism? Really?
You must not have met too many truly Machiavellian types.
You are just using words here that attempt to paint a picture with no real substance to your argument.

Firstly let me state that I've met Machiavellian types Aragorn, I've met men who have slipped drugs into someone's food for the lone purpose of creating another addict to keep them company. Thus ruining a persons life. I've met people who have abandoned their children, let me state that again, who have abandoned their children for no other reason other than to have more freedom in their lifestyle. I know men who have raped their own children, and continued to do so until those children were old enough to support themselves and leave their house.

You use words like Machiavellian, dark triad, psychopathy but I'm not sure you understand human nature enough to use those words my friend.

You use these words to paint Bill in the light of a villain so you can play the hero.
But in my opinion neither is the case.

The world isn't just a hero-victim dynamic, and although I loath Simon Parks, the folks he had sex with were still willing participants from what I understand, did he use his position in a completely unethical way, yes, but it takes two to Tango, these folks agreed to partake in his prescription for healing and as such they have to take some of the responsibility for what happened themselves. I absolutely believe this.
If I go visiting an abductee for information and leave having gotten a d!ck in the @ss the only person I'm going to blame in that scenario is my self.
You can't vilify everyone who doesn't act in accordance with how you feel they should have acted. And this stands for everyone who didn't act the way you think they should have in the Simon Parks fiasco.

[DNA]

Your tune was way different back then my friend

It was, and tunes change. :swing:

[Fred Steeves]

Back during the summer of 2011, I got meet and spend several days with (and attend to) Mr Bob Dean ...
Note he was very much a real gentleman, and in my opinion was not lacking in his humanity ... :)


https://scontent.fsnc1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16114017_1282973678431184_3680987326657736747_n.jp g?oh=62e49b058ce666c01f4f8437b86a3b0c&oe=5922A04C
Sharing his lunch with Jedar the wonder dog ...


https://scontent.fsnc1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/268190_177764848952078_4550035_n.jpg?oh=d05ea9e92d 1b053ba9761a82dde81099&oe=590DD899
At the campfire sharing some whiskey and cigars.

I hear ya Gio, in April of that same year (2011) I took the opportunity presented to spend an afternoon over coffee with Bill and Inelia at a Tampa Bay area Starbucks. It was an interesting and delightful three hours or so, and Bill was ever the perfect English gentleman. It was after that I would refer to him as a friend here and then for a time (over at Nexus), while defending him to the hilt in the wake of the Charles mayhem.

[donk]

It was, and tunes change. :swing:

Your projecting of motives on to others, combined with the moral relativism you use to judge them and what they "should" be doing or how they "shpuld" be viewed (in your mind) hasn't seemed to

Back then you were all about transparency. Now you chose not to be transparent about something you could have provided information about. Maybe it wasn't important, you're involvement with IW and the views you transmitted back then. But they're important to me in piecing together the online persona you choose to transmit...thanks for your input...I'd bet BR appreciates it as well

[Maggie]

I don't know what suggested to Fred that he start this thread? That so many are rehashing old perceptions is perhaps a sign that chaos is stirring undigested "stuff"...who is friend and who is foe? Where can we place our trust?

For those without a rock, the ground feels really shifty at the moment. IMO Avalon is an important symbol of our deepest knowing that there is solid ROCK: our LIMINAL SELF grounded here as Presence in our world.

https://timflanaganauthor.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/avalon_by_iribel.jpg?w=450&h=602

Avalon does not belong to BR or that group posting or anyone. Clever to have taken it for a spin.....

The disappointments of PA and its championed whistling blowers comes because we have all been wandering around searching for the REAL Avalon and our birth right... People respond to the idea of a "safe place" to express our original uncommon perceptions and unusual experiences...those aspects we have seen and need to now understand.

Discern the mix up between paranormal reality and paranoid fantasy and IMO no one can then entrap your sensibility.

Paranormal is authentic and genuine and yes, scary and wonderful and amazing...all things that make up the LIMINAL....the threshold to an UNKNOWN.
The whole mix up is that people have Dis EASE when the world becomes too strange to rationalize. They become so filled with fear that they stall out in looking for champions to slay a perceived monster. They descend into paranoia. It is contagious as the thought forms gather in.

Opportunities then arise to be manipulated by "Health professionals" and "saviors" (and doesn't Parks and his ilk gain entry via his promise to help one's HEALTH and security?)

There is a necessary chaos between NORMAL mundane and PARANORMAL liminal and the tricksters who use our UNBALANCED states of mind are the lurking dangers.

It is not accidental that the tools for expanded consciousness used in the wrong setting, without good timing can create illness.

OK, so we are forlorn because Avalon retreated to the mists.
We want to go there and we are in tears and anguish.
We search and search for the ferry.
We study how to build the bridge so we gain the access to this island.
We become the ones able to find the means.

http://img01.deviantart.net/0ca2/i/2008/013/3/4/mists_of_avalon_by_kiles85.jpg


According to Monmouth, in Vita Merlini (a wonderful book), to reach Avalon it is necessary to undertake a sea voyage. The historian maintains that on that island nature produced grain, apples and grapes by itself, without the need to sow, plow or cultivate. He also said that whomever lives in Avalon could live for more than 100 years.

Avalon has been, for centuries, a mythical place that symbolizes purity, abundance and magic, and which is the reason for the strong significance it has had in Western culture for so many years. It is a terrestrial utopia and, at the same time, a point of political reference of a time when rulers and their knights were brave, honest and virtuous, a harmonious bridge between the earthy and the celestial, between what is and what some would like it to be. There are the intact values (those that we have corrupted to the point of dismantling), and there are the nine fairies that guard King Arthur and his paradise of apples.http://www.faena.com/aleph/articles/avalon-a-place-between-mythology-and-the-utopia-of-a-lost-kingdom/

We have the capacity to be immune to the tricks of the paranoid mind.
The fairies are real and live on Avalon still but we won't find them without our OWN sea voyage through our own mists with OUR inner guide.
Bless us all everyone and may we not be stalled out this time around before we sail.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/0f/7b/a5/0f7ba51bd49800a2ff330d0ea8ab37dd.jpg

[donk]

I came to the "alternative" community looking for information practical to my real life that I could not find anywhere else. I found that at PA, in fact in that period with that purpose is where I came your (Marcus) excellent post from you that I adopted my sig line from.

It was helpful. Besides interacting with seemingly genuine people about what most consider "supernatural" personal life nuisances, I found a lot of interesting perspectives on "higher level" stuff I was interested in. Not only that, most of the people I respected there were most concerned with personal responsibility and most of their talk was about "walking your walk." Emotional maturity...know thyself

As is the custom of most humans I encounter, most are told from an "authoratative" perspective...other people's "truth" that would it would never occur to them to present as "negotiable". I'm sure a lot of stuff out there IS from the authority of Truth, something 99 outa 100 people experiencing it, in the reality that we share...could agree upon. And obviously there is just as much outright deception, for any number of reasons. Discernment is another key value of the purported spirit of Avalon...and it is a wonderful tool for that.

What I discovered to be a giant problem for me though, is that seemed the community level of PA was not only not interested in "walking it's walk"...it was as sensitive to criticism and.adverse to self reflection as everything it/they/we criticized. This was personified in the actual authority, Bill, in his protection of the sacred text of Scientology he directly told me he feared and admitted to actively hiding from the forum.

That was the trigger for me, how should "science and spirituality meet" in a place where we could talk about every other sacred text openly, entertain an discuss any other belief in a place where people come seeking the information and data otherwise hidden for them...we couldn't talk about the one "daddy" thought was TOO DANGEROUS for us membership.

Even people I showed EXACTLY what he said, can seem to excuse that. Justify participating for all the other "good" it (and he) bring to the table. Well, maybe it's just me, but.I truly believe that is the systemic problem endemic in every fractal of our existence: enabling an abusive relationship. Keeping "family" (state, personal, etc) secrets. The hypocracy of encourage others to open up or come forward and blow whistles....except for that thing that's important to me...not only can we not talk about it...you are an enemy of the community for even bringing it up.

That's the reality (I thought) we experienced together. When the "trolls" followed us around as we tried to make sense of what we thought was a psyop, we had direct evidence that BR pays attention when someone tells him somebody's criticizing him. I dont know whether he'd literally send out "spies" to keep tabs on critics...he probably didn't need to then, he had enough emotionally attached peeps that would show him anything anyone said...the one thing we both know though: he went to the tiny little spot with what, a half dozen active members, three quarters of which were "us" because he was so concerned an obvious made troll made a ridiculous puppet of him (member that?)...maybe I don't use the term correctly but I associate the term Machiavellian with that type of behavior.

Regardless, that was just the most blatant example to show me that the place was no "alternative", it was run the way nearly every other "civilized" social structure operates, with the same average level of emotional maturity. I thought it was different, that it was a place where we COULD be the change we wanted to see, a community that'd be receptive to transparency and criticism, with a fair and wise ruler that would be open to change and like the rest of us was still working on growing. Maybe things (like you) have changed...I haven't been giving it my energy, as he and it didn't seem to want to...like the American dream, it is the best-est as it is, just ignore the stuff you want to...that's not as important as all the "good" that justifies it

[sarahdita85]

Yes it takes 2 to tango, but no one has the right to mess with your head for months in order to get what they want. I havent spoke about it for a while because i pretty much pushed it to the back of my mind and im not looking for sympathy and never will, but that man is a predator plain and simple, he will probably be long gone before all his other 'hobbies' come to light. I dont need to explain myself and I will never be that weak again, but whatever he did truly screwed my head up and i havent been able to have meaningful relationships since 2014, not to mention the nightmares and sleep paralysis. So no, its not as simple as 'it takes 2 to tango', not in this situation anyway.

Not to mention the abuse i suffered from his followers for a good year after the incident, I'm glad people are seeing him how he really is now.

[donk]

Another item that might be of interest: Christine Andersen is a person too. With lots of valuable experiences and insights to share. Perspectives every bit as valid as BR's or anyone else's.

When the way Bill treated her is dismissed as "personal problems" that should not be considered in the tapestry that is your perception of the man and his character and intentions, you do yourself a disservice.

But I guess you gotta to do that in order to be able to hang your hopes on a Trump, eh? *winky face*

[donk]

Yes it takes 2 to tango, but no one has the right to mess with your head for months in order to get what they want. I havent spoke about it for a while because i pretty much pushed it to the back of my mind and im not looking for sympathy and never will, but that man is a predator plain and simple, he will probably be long gone before all his other 'hobbies' come to light. I dont need to explain myself and I will never be that weak again, but whatever he did truly screwed my head up and i havent been able to have meaningful relationships since 2014, not to mention the nightmares and sleep paralysis. So no, its not as simple as 'it takes 2 to tango', not in this situation anyway.

Not to mention the abuse i suffered from his followers for a good year after the incident, I'm glad people are seeing him how he really is now.

I believe you...and this is exactly why I think the discussion is important. Enabling is a big a component to abuse cycle as the actual abuse itself. It's why I singled out Marcus and Sam...the prodigal sons of PA...they are text book examples of the "justification problem" which much can be learned from, that I "walk my walk" by trying to change.

[Maggie]

I hope that my invocations of what feels like a meta picture of reality (as I see it) does not discount the pain that people feel when they do trust a person in "charge" and are let down. OFTEN IMO, the only ones trying to project that status of authority are those who are desperately in need of attention. The energetic boost from vamping others is a substitute for communion with one's own source.

People like BR are narcissists and I think this is the state of becoming more and more a hollow shell case of emptiness. Narcissists R US is a matrix condition. It all (from my vantage point) just looks so inevitable given how the energy from others SEEMS easier to get than self source connections. The valuation by competition means some are the BEST and MOST famous and others NOT famous. The FAME food of adulation is one of the most potent drugs and hooks people into caring more about that drug than how others are affected.

I am sad FOR narcissists more than those who get burned and know it. I really don't feel sorry for myself that I looked up to someone(s) who seemed to be more capable and wise, wanting what they seemed to have, feeling "low" and not as "valuable". It seems like an initiation experience toward one's sovereign ability to generate an inner connection with SELF.

Some others are stuck who may never realize the "Cult-I-Vation" or they feel they get some weird trade off.... they are in some weird dance of mutual vampirization.

I feel quite sorrowful for those who never make the transition from energy taken secondhand from others to SELF generation. Somehow, I think they may have a rough time when the transition out occurs. Where there are no others to vamp, where there is only oneself, that seems like the hell we have heard about....

In a metaperspective, the people who having been set up as icons, who then reach a crisis and cannot just let go of the role are in such a heavy position that I think it may lead to death by egoistic rigor mortis.

One prime example is an Icon I have admired deeply and I see a sad loss of flexibility and expansion because he did not want to lose his prestige as "role model". This is a teaching tale.


A Symbiosis Shattered (https://www.psychedelia.dk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41531)

By Dennis McKenna
(The Psychedelic Salon Podcast #316, 45:40 – 1:01:56)

By this time, Terence was getting a lot of attention for his ‘rap’, as he called it. He had been a featured speaker at a landmark conference on psychedelics held at UC, Santa Barbara in May, 1983 that featured a number of established and emerging luminaries, including Albert Hofmann, Sasha Shulgin, Andrew Weil, Ralph Metzner, Karl Ruck, Walter Houston Clark and others.

Terence’s edgy talk was titled: “Hallucinogens: Monkeys Discover Hyperspace A.K.A. Return to the Logos. It was quite unlike anything else presented there, and it was an important catalytic event in his emergence as a public persona. People loved hearing these wild ideas, and Terence’s mesmeric voice and articulate presentation made him the perfect spokesman.

It didn’t matter that much that what he said was incomprehensible or nonsensical, his audience was uncritical and most did not have the education to challenge him, and few did. People just listened slack-jawed in fascination. I used to kid him that it didn’t matter what he said; he could stand up and read the phonebook and people would hang on every word, because it wasn’t what he said, it was that he said it so darned well. His rap was not science, it was not exactly philosophy, either, it was poetry and Terence was inventing himself as the Irish bard of the psychedelic zeitgeist.

By the time the 80’s faded into history, Terence was well ensconced in his iconic role as the chief spokesman for the new psychedelic culture, along with the timewave and the impending end of history, all thoroughly embellished with the collection of bizarre notions that we had dragged back from the jungles of La Chorrera twenty years previously. He had found his schtick and it was paying the bills, and he was out there on the public stage and there were growing legions of fans who loved to hear his rap.

There was no real competition for the niche he had carved out for himself; Leary was still around, but by this time old and boring. The original 60’s psychedelic message was about peace, free love, eastern wisdom and back to nature, Terence’s audience was mostly younger; genuine inhabitants of the global village predicted by McCluhan and rapidly morphing into reality. They had grown up bathed in the cool glow of television and far from being Luddite back-to-landers, these were world-spanning tech-nomads of an emerging global tribalism, the enthusiastic vanguard of the new, post-historical, archaic revival.

But even as Terence played out the role that destiny and fate had carved out for him, there were darker forces at work, well hidden from the glare of public adulation. As Terence became more visible as a public figure and began to accumulate a devoted following, on a personal level he became plagued by doubts about his ideas that he had vigorously espoused for years; and doubts about the role that the world had thrust upon him.

A strong, cognitive dissonance emerged between his public persona as the shaman guru and his own self-understanding that he was anything but an enlightened being. He didn’t want to be the wise man guru telling people what to think, he wanted people to think for themselves, like Timothy Leary. That was the whole thrust of his message, he was human while others wanted him to be a bodhisattva.

Terence's pivotal, existential crisis came abruptly, some time in '88 or '89. Everything that happened after that event was fallout. I don't know exactly when it happened, and I don't know exactly what happened; I am piecing it together from what Kat has told me, and she has volunteered few details and I am reluctant to probe.

It happened when they were living for a time on the big island, and it was a mushroom trip they shared that was absolutely terrifying for Terence. It was terrifying because, for some reason, the mushroom turned on him. The gentle, wise, humorous mushroom spirit, that he had come to know and trust as an ally and teacher, ripped back the facade to reveal an abyss of utter existential despair. Terence kept saying, so Kat told me, that it was "a lack of all meaning, a lack of all meaning."

And this induced panic in Terence, and probably, I speculate, a feeling he was going mad. He couldn't deal with it. Kat's efforts to reassure him were fruitless. After that experience, he never again took mushrooms, and he took other psychedelics, such as DMT and ayahuasca, only on rare occasions and with great reluctance.

Whatever the specific content of the psychedelic experience might have been that triggered the cognitive collapse of Terence's worldview and precipitated his existential crisis, what was most remarkable was that he did not see it coming. He did not see it coming.

When one works deeply, and over long periods, with a particular plant teacher, there inevitably comes a point where the examination of the self comes front and center. One may learn much from psychedelics about archetypes, myths, and other dimensions, shamanic techniques, aliens and the construction of the cosmogonic and cognitive worldview, but sooner or later they hold up a mirror in which one must confront the self.

Terence Mckenna developed a brain tumor and left the planet quite early IMO....April 3, 2000

[Aragorn]

The Simon thing bothered me very much. I brought the issue to Bill when I was made aware of the issue by yourself, this was probably January 2015. I brought the issue to Bill and then left Avalon because of the situation. And although it may have taken Bill a little more time than I would have liked, Avalon is a "No Simon Parks" zone right now. Now I do not own a forum and I do not know the nuances that go into something like this, but it appears that Bill felt he needed proof before he could go further and once he acquired such, he acted as he should have.

If what you state here-above were true, then as the founder and owner of Project Avalon, Bill Ryan could (and should) have used the resources available to him in order to ascertain the veracity of the various claims made by Avalon members (and others) on account of Simon Parkes and his misconduct. For a man of Bill Ryan's intelligence and with his connections, it would have been a piece of cake to do so. But he chose not to.

Bill Ryan knew exactly what was going on with Simon Parkes, and yet he chose to "aid and abet" Simon Parkes because Parkes had threatened to sue both him and the whole of Project Avalon — which is Simon Parkes' typical modus operandi — and The Man With The Hat™ took it seriously.

Señor Ryan is a wanted man in at least one country that I know of — i.e. the USA, and more specifically in the state of California, where he was convicted in absentia (*) — and possibly in two or three other countries as well. Trust me, he's not looking forward to appearing before a judge.



(*) The case of the fake Picasso. And I do believe that Bill himself may have been conned in that matter — not that he was, but it is quite possible.

Bill Ryan's claim is that he had a written certificate of authenticity from an art expert, and as I understand it, the counter-argument only had Pablo Picasso's daughter's word that her father had not made that drawing, but unless she herself is a qualified art expert, I don't see how her opinion could outweigh that of a genuine expert. Pablo may have made that drawing without that his daughter knew about it. I doubt that she would have been present with each and every drawing or painting her father made. But I guess we'll never know the truth behind that story.



Folks who post pro-Simon rhetoric on Avalon now are taken to task pretty quick now.

Yes, because nowadays, with more and more complaints about and evidence against Simon Parkes having come in, Bill Ryan can't afford to turn a blind eye anymore, and so he had no other choice but to take an open stance in the matter and publicly denounce Simon Parkes' misconduct. But that has nothing to do with ethics or wanting to protect the innocent. It was a purely politically motivated move on his part.



Bill Ryan may have done good things, but that doesn't make him into a good person

How are you going to pass judgement on a man you barely even know?

I think I know him a lot better than you do, Marcus. When I joined Project Avalon, I too looked up to the guy. I considered him a hero. But then his mask fell off only two weeks later, when he chose to make an example out of me over a stupid misunderstanding, which then prompted him to post a hugely self-glorifying thread a few days later.

From that moment on, I started seeing Bill Ryan as a person with a good side and a bad side. But I had no idea yet at that point in time just how dark this bad side of him was, until his feud with Corey broke out.

And from then on, over how he attempted to get information about Corey from me by sending me a PM while posing as Atlas/Buares, all through the way he managed to push Christine, Claudia and Hazel out of the mod team and then lied about the circumstances on the open forum, up to how he handled the Simon Parkes affair and how both Laura and I were banned, not to mention that he tried to get bsbray to edit out Bill Ryan's name from posts made here at The One Truth by Lord Sidious — which bsbray did not do and which he instead reported to the mod room — I think I've seen enough of the man to have an idea of what he's capable of, thank you very much.



[...] in my personal opinion, the worn-out phrase "He's only human" is a p*ss-poor excuse for the fact that the man is a certifiable dark triad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) — a personality type with a combination of psychopathy, Machiavellianism and narcissism.

Machiavellianism? Really?

Yes, Machiavellianism, really.


You must not have met too many truly Machiavellian types.

On the contrary. I've had a girlfriend once who was a dark triad as well, and my brother was married to one for twenty years. But perhaps you don't properly understand what Machiavellians do.


You are just using words here that attempt to paint a picture with no real substance to your argument.

My dear Marcus, I have so far done nothing but substantiate my claims. It is not my fault that you refuse to see the substantiation. And your reaction to what I have said about the man — and which everyone with their eyes open can ascertain for the truth — is a textbook example of being in denial. You've put the guy up on a pedestal and you're grasping at straws and looking for excuses so as to dismiss the ugly truths about him.


Firstly let me state that I've met Machiavellian types Aragorn, I've met men who have slipped drugs into someone's food for the lone purpose of creating another addict to keep them company. Thus ruining a persons life. I've met people who have abandoned their children, let me state that again, who have abandoned their children for no other reason other than to have more freedom in their lifestyle. I know men who have raped their own children, and continued to do so until those children were old enough to support themselves and leave their house.

All of the examples you list here are manifestations of psychopathy — or sociopathy, if you will; they are two different names for the same condition — but that is not Machiavellianism. There is of course a little bit of overlap, but Machiavellians are specifically known for their way of manipulating people through intrigue, spin, half-truths and lies.

A man who sexually abuses his own children is a psychopath, but not necessarily a Machiavellian. A man who slips drugs into someone's food or drink in order to sexually take advantage of them is also a psychopath, but also not necessarily a Machiavellian.

Someone like Zbigniew Brzezinsky on the other hand, who orchestrated the events in Afghanistan in such a way that the Soviets would invade Afghanistan and who then armed the Afghani resistance — the Mujahedin — in order to bring the Soviets to their knees, that is a true Machiavellian at work.

A Machiavellian plays people like chess pieces in order to get them exactly where he (or she) wants them.


You use words like Machiavellian, dark triad, psychopathy but I'm not sure you understand human nature enough to use those words my friend.

I have both extensive experience with and a proper psychiatric understanding of the conditions to substantiate what I say. I am also a master of observation — courtesy of that autism, you know? I see things other people don't see. Not because they're not there, but because other people's brains filter those things out as "unimportant information".


You use these words to paint Bill in the light of a villain so you can play the hero.

You obviously know as little about me as you do about Bill Ryan. I have no desire to play a hero. I am more concerned with who and what I really am than with how people perceive me. And I can assure you that there are quite a few people who think very lowly of me — and if you truly believe what you've just said about me here-above, then I'm counting you as one of those people as well.

But fair enough. You're in denial and you want me to shut up about the guy, so that's what I'm going to do. I believe I see some elevated terrain over yonder, and thus I will take my leave from this thread.


The world isn't just a hero-victim dynamic, and although I loath Simon Parks, the folks he had sex with were still willing participants from what I understand, did he use his position in a completely unethical way, yes, but it takes two to Tango, these folks agreed to partake in his prescription for healing and as such they have to take some of the responsibility for what happened themselves. I absolutely believe this.
If I go visiting an abductee for information and leave having gotten a d!ck in the @ss the only person I'm going to blame in that scenario is my self.

I hope you realize what you've just said here-above. You've just insulted every rape victim in the world.

[Gio]

I hear ya Gio, in April of that same year (2011) I took the opportunity presented to spend an afternoon over coffee with Bill and Inelia at a Tampa Bay area Starbucks. It was an interesting and delightful three hours or so, and Bill was ever the perfect English gentleman. It was after that I would refer to him as a friend here and then for a time (over at Nexus), while defending him to the hilt in the wake of the Charles mayhem.

That's good hear and know Fred,

Face to face impressions are very important and telling for me.

I spent several days (as well) with Bill & Christine while they visited the ranch ...

As well as Inelia later on etc... I do believe in keeping some items private here.

There's a lot of things i know, i would never disclose here or in public ...

Note: i never participated in the Charles (Atticus) affairs - was never interested ...

I wish no one ill will or discontent, though i do not like controlling types.

[DNA]

Your projecting of motives on to others, combined with the moral relativism you use to judge them and what they "should" be doing or how they "shpuld" be viewed (in your mind) hasn't seemed to

Back then you were all about transparency. Now you chose not to be transparent about something you could have provided information about. Maybe it wasn't important, you're involvement with IW and the views you transmitted back then. But they're important to me in piecing together the online persona you choose to transmit...thanks for your input...I'd bet BR appreciates it as well
Dude the only reason you are throwing shade at me is because I'm not on the "let's throw Bill Ryan under the bus" band wagon. You didn't know me two years ago and you don't know me now.
The only thing you know about me is that I'm willing to forgive, forget and move on to things that truly matter.
I had no idea you guys held on to the past like this and refuse to move on. With you guys throwing "psychological observations" around like you do why don't you look up how when you hold on to negativity from the past you are doing everyone including yourself a disservice.
I got nothing but love for you Donk, but in the grand scheme of things were you really that wronged by anybody?

[modwiz]

As Fred himself stated, this thread has not gone in the direction he intended. I am not blameless for that veering off. I do see this unintended direction as toxic and will refrain from posting or thanking posts, for now.

It is clear that BR is a polarizing figure. There is enough going on in the world of actual importance and impact on our lives that I believe we could pursue more productive paths. My apologies to Fred for being one of those who contributed to unproductive dialogue, as it has become.

Interestingly, active members are rising. It is sad to see this because clearly it is drama that has created this sudden resurgence of dormant members posting. Discussion of topics that might make a difference in how our world runs, an outgrowth of our consciousness and psyche, seems to not be seen as worthy.

[donk]

No DNA I wasn't wronged...I WAS wrong. About a lot of things. In my perception of reality especially. Not just on the forums but in parallels in my real life too.

I was wrong to assume the people that taught me such concepts as real personal responsibility, honest self reflection, and emotional maturity actual practiced such things. It turns out the ones I learned the most from weren't actually the best at any of them.

I am a bit frustrated that those I respect can turn out to be such enablers. Cuz I don't see things the way you do, you say it's not a totally "savior-victim" reality...the reality I live in seems like ALL the problems we have are rooted in the abuse cycle (call it what you like).

No I don't know YOU...I only know the online persona you've presented for years, from the hundreds of posts I've read you created. I'm not trying to flatter you, you were one of my favorite posters and after reading the story you told about passing spirits (what is the purpose of your presence?) I went back to your earlier posts. I know the dude you choose to write about, and felt a connection as I thought you seem among the most genuine I've seen do it

[sarahdita85]

Yeah I apologise also as im part to blame for going off topic, sorry fred, i have been dormant for a while, not posting but i have been here reading, just had to make a quick point as i felt it was necessary, sorry again :)

[modwiz]

Yeah I apologise also as im part to blame for going off topic, sorry fred, i have been dormant for a while, not posting but i have been here reading, just had to make a quick point as i felt it was necessary, sorry again :)

Had to thank your post despite my wanting to stay out of things.:thup:

[Fred Steeves]

Yeah I apologise also as im part to blame for going off topic, sorry fred, i have been dormant for a while, not posting but i have been here reading, just had to make a quick point as i felt it was necessary, sorry again :)

No worries dear lady. Actually, people like SP are very much relevant to the topic, as is your experience. It's all related, and what this crowd does is to both promote and defend each other at every opportunity. Ethics are irrelevant (despite incessant claims of impeccable integrity), all that matters is that the carousel keeps turning to the music.

[donk]

Some morning coffee reflections on my postings here:

Modwiz points out that the thread has veered from what Fred's original intent was, to point to resources that exist that show various perspectives on the "history of Avalon".

Not only did expect (and actively contribute to) what many consider "going off topic" when I saw it, I fully expected nearly every element that appeared:

-people that felt abused sharing their "truths"
-pokes directly at Bill
-defensive reactions to the above
-people talking about how distasteful it is to talk about all of this

It happens every time...the strongest personal attachments are triggered and the "polarizations" starts rolling full swing. I've been trying to have an "adult" version of this conversation for years...that's one of the things I was alluding to in mentioning my "being wrong", there's no reason to suggest I can ever help make that happen.

So I use the platform to voice what I've learned that seems to be the underlying problem, and realized that those that agree that overall agree it is the biggie (abuse cycle--whether it's BR/PA or its productions doing the abusing, or people abusing PA/BR with their "attacks/truths"), there's some great examples here of how the issue doesn't just have a black and white perspective on it...there's actually three:
-the abuser is the biggest part of the problem
-the victim is most responsible for the problem
-the enablers are the most responsible for the biggest part of the problem

People get upset when I call this an offshoot of PA. But the truth is, PA was the connection for most of us, and I think the spirit of PA, what we believed it to be (and were greatly disappointed to find out it wasn't exactly what it says it tries to be) connects all of us here--including those that were never on Bill's forum.

We want a place for uncensored unridiculed unattached conversation about things we can't talk about elsewhere. A place to share perspectives on the stuff we find important. Any place that shares those original ideals becomes a lot of things on a lot of different levels, whether it was intended or not. The OP speaks directly to the ones that were created specifically in reaction of "wanting a 'real' Avalon" as Maggie brilliantly describes, and felt strongly that not only does PA not provide, it is deceptively undermining ever being able to get there.

I worked pretty hard (for a keyboard warrior) to try to point out my perspective directly to Bill...he wasn't buying it. I went around him and tried to get some support or at least a little agreement/affirmation the whole time after identified what I thought was the problem...with mixed results. I bounced around those forums Fred mentions and got lots of good data, new insights, and perspectives I hadn't considered. While I was doing that, I was actually posting with the few similarly interested/minded talkative people that wanted to try to work it out...understand more thoroughly what was actually going on.

This place, here, was the one I found that out of all the ones I went to actually just tried to be what Bill said PA was supposed to be. I didn't expect perfection in either, but I did expect membership at PA to be able to get through to its leadership better when they found in self reflection that as a community it wasn't any different than any other "civilized" one...the stuff I mentioned before, that I brought to Bill, then the forum, then else where in an attempt to hash out.

In my hashing...I couldn't find anything to show my perspective was incorrect, and when Bill started demonstrating even worse behavior: using his forum membership against his wife in a "personal issue" the more mature felt it was ok/better to stay out of...I couldn't reconcile the cognitive dissonance it'd require me to continue my participating...became insufferable in my delivery having decided I was WRONG...I was never going to be the change I hoped to see, and just created scenarios that I felt exposed leadership (which included the "prominent posters", the great enablers), until they decided "their hands were tied" and had to kick me off.

My journey there evolved from a full-fledged believer that it was THE place where real change was most likely to catlyze, where I acted the "savior" to try to root out the deception, and learned (THERE) that the real change starts within. I believe a lot of the offshoot reactionary forums were formed for people trying to continue that journey, and part of that process is working out the personal issues and real healing of any traumas. Different people do this in different way, and that is what shapes the overall tone of any of those places.

And I think that each individual's expressions of their working out is completely ON TOPIC and we need to honestly face any emotion that any others' view triggers in us.

I think the election is such a great analogy for this. I want nothing to do with voting and to be able to not get emotionally attached to any of the personalities involved. I feel the roots of the activity are corrupted to the point that participating is a hypocracy, empowering something for the "good" it does while excusing the unpleasant abuses. I thought that making PA an agent of real change and different thinking was as much a part of what it is as voting is supposed to be empowerment and choice for the people. I was wrong.

So I sit, detached as I can be, and point out my perspectives from the outside...aka CRITICIZE. I trust most my own personal experiences, but even those are negotioable--I try not to get attached to my perspectives. But I put them out there, like I have always done...which I have always found helpful to me. I am continually trying to grow, to find ways to get more valuable, practical feedback.

And maybe therein lies the real problem: I assumed that what was forums, places in this format, were for. To accept "alternative" points of view from all directions, to share as many as could be put out there and hash them out until some Truth emerged. Maybe the problem is I am alone in thinking this. That seems apparent from the loops that very few others seem to want to break. Most (vocal) people are more interested in being "right" than thinking differently.

This morning I thought differently about the "prodigal son" analogy I projected on to DNA and SH. When I used it early, I left out the fact there were TWO sons...and perhaps I misassigned the parallels. The dudes that left PA and came never really left the family...their departure never really marked a changing in mindset, they just left for a bit and didn't find the grass to be any greener...their home was the best and they'd stay there appreciate the good while excusing/justifying anything anyone else thought was "bad". The analogy couldn't work because the "father" of the parable represented unconditional love and the freedom to be he gave his boys to be...and I don't think that is what either of them actually walked away from.

This is why I respect malc, and why I think he more closely captures the spirit of avalon...he does what I felt would have made PA better: Admits when he is wrong, and tries to learn from mistakes by acting. Listens to people that look to him as leader/owner, and tries to adjust accordingly. I know that any problem I had with him stemmed from me thinking he was not doing this (these types of threads used to be quickly moved behind the curtain and usually locked), and I have watched him "walk his walk" of growing through the years.

My cat hops up to occupy the space between my hands and the keyboard, I guess that's my message from the universe to stop my morning musing. But the main point I wanted to make is this: the "history of Avalon" is a unique piece of (some of our) shared reality, and each person's piece is as important as anyone else's IMO. It's a lot of things to a lot of people...and the surface reality that drew most in: the disclosure of individuals sharing their anolomous experiences that we might see similarities or interest in...is being exposed to be perceived filled more with deception than the truth we originally came seeking.

For a lot of the us, discussion of the videos Kerry and Bill made were the key to creating a community where very diverse individual came together enjoying the "protection" Bill afforded from the vulgarities of the wild Wild West that is the world wide web, but the rigid structure or the ego of the "master" or an emotional trigger or whatever (I think these are good, important things to talk about...others disagree)...made it unpleasant for us, so we left (or were booted). I think it is really important to point out abuses one discovers there, as it is to do so in any situation.

Defending Bill and excusing bad behavior should be mutually exclusively though...we understand the character he portrays is a good (if imperfect) human, and it takes more evidence than just he provides to be able to determine his true character. Blantant attack mode or immature jokes/mocking/memes is not helpful though. I do my best to try to be an example. I ain't perfect, nor do i expect you to be...I'm just telling (the proverbial) you how I found that abuse cycle cannot be broken without addressing the enabling that perpetuates it.

:back to topic: ....maybe your wandering the "alternative forum diaspora" lead you different conclusions? I'd especially like to hear, particularly if your journey took you through Avalon and beyond...

[Aragorn]

I just wanted to reply — and offer clarification — to this one little snippet from what I find an excellent post by our brother donk...


People get upset when I call this an offshoot of PA.

Well, yes and no. You are overlooking a very, very small nuance to our reaction, and one which makes a world of difference.

Right now, here-above, you call The One Truth an offshoot of Project Avalon. And that, it is, yes. Just as with the Free/Libre & Open Source Software development model, if at a given point in time, some of the developers on the team feel that the project they're working on is evolving into a direction that they don't want it to go — whether it's the software itself or whether it's a change in the software license — then the code gets forked. Given that it is Free/Libre & Open Source Software, doing so is perfectly legal.

An example of this would for instance be what happened with the OpenOffice productivity software and the OpenSolaris operating system, the development of which had been sponsored by Sun Microsystems. For the more or less IT-savvy among you, Solaris and OpenSolaris are direct descendants of System V UNIX. OpenSolaris was developed by the community with funds from Sun Microsystems and was thus a little more "cutting edge" in features than Solaris proper, which was the "stabilized" version. When the code base of OpenSolaris had been sufficiently stabilized, Sun would sell it as the next release of the commercial-only and (from that point on) proprietary Solaris, while the OpenSolaris developers kept on working on the next stabilization cycle as an open source operating system.

So far so good, but then Sun Microsystems was acquired by Oracle, and Oracle immediately nuked the sponsorship of OpenSolaris and forbade anyone from using the trademarked Solaris name, because that was now "their intellectual property" — the proponents of Free/Libre & Open Source Software prefer calling that "imaginary property". :p

And so what happened was that the OpenSolaris developers took the code they had already developed and continued working on it under a new name, IllumOS — no, it has nothing to do with the Illuminati, but with a wink at Sun Microsystems, given that the predecessor to Solaris was called SunOS. And because of the fear that Oracle would also nuke the sponsoring of the development of OpenOffice, the OpenOffice developers decided to fork the code base and create LibreOffice.

The bottom line: this is what we call a fork, and you may think of that as an offshoot. And in that sense, The One Truth is, indeed, an offshoot of what Project Avalon was supposed to have been but never really was. And we'll admit that, yes, because it's the truth.

So what was it then that we were objecting against, you ask? Well, it's all in the words. Here-above, you are calling The One Truth an offshoot of Project Avalon, and that is correct. But what you said earlier was that The One Truth would have been an extension of Project Avalon, and that has an entirely different meaning, because then you're basically saying that The One Truth would have been Bill Ryan's backyard and that he has some sort of authority over us. Which is most definitely not the case.

I know I'm probably not going to sound impartial now, but in all honesty and in my personal opinion, I think that The One Truth is much more mature than Project Avalon, both in the way we run it, and in what gets posted here. If I look at the highlighted threads — or even just the most recent threads — at Project Avalon's front page, then what I see is a lot of woo-woo, unnecessary paranoia and lots of other inaccurate assumptions from people who don't really know what they're talking about.

To me, they represent the most immature stage of truth-seeking, i.e. the phase that people who are only just starting to wake up go through, where they reject with prejudice anything at all from the mainstream news and see conspiracies and/or divine intervention behind everything. The One Truth has gone through such a phase as well, and not just after it had just been created, but even well into 2015, courtesy of a number of irrational and badly informed (now former) members.

At present time, The One Truth is quite mature. The average member here knows that the mainstream media are to be taken with a spoonful of salt, but they are skeptical enough and have a fairly good sense of discernment. It is not unlikely that this is one of the lessons we've all learned in the aftermath of the Corey and Shane episodes. But we have learned, and in a much shorter time than Project Avalon, because they're still stuck in their immature phase, while at the same time their forum is already much older than ours.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that, and I realize that my opinion may be biased because I'm an administrator here, but that's how I see it. As they say, your mileage may vary. ;)

[Fred Steeves]

because they're still stuck in their immature phase, while at the same time their forum is already much older than ours.


Stuck, or being kept that way on purpose? Round and round and round we go, where she stops same old same old.

[Aragorn]

Stuck, or being kept that way on purpose? Round and round and round we go, where she stops same old same old.

Well, it's probably a little bit of both.

All things considered, Bill Ryan is an information broker. Either he himself releases information which has come to him from the list of contacts that he built up while he was still working with Kerry Cassidy, or he promotes someone who has only appeared on the scene after Bill and Kerry went their separate ways — i.e. Stephen "Charles"/"Atticus" Hodges, Inelia Benz, Simon Parkes, Corey Goode, Shane "The Ruiner" Bales, and so on. In the end, the member donations are what keeps Project Avalon operational and The Hat Man™ well fed.

On the other hand, Bill Ryan also has his own woo-woo factor and his own belief systems, the most important of which is probably the fact that he's a Scientologist. So he too is obviously stuck in esoteric beliefs and woo-woo, and I don't think that he would be open-minded enough to abandon those belief systems. Sure, he may have changing opinions on the future of mankind, et al. This is only normal, because more and more information comes to the surface with the passing of time. For instance, many old predictions have in the meantime turned out false — the 2012 phenomenon being one of them — and so we all adjust our views. But in my opinion, Bill Ryan's belief in (and adherence to) Scientology is something that will probably never change.

Another aspect which may also be important here is the fact that Project Avalon is so much bigger than The One Truth. They've got about ten times as many members as we do. As such, there is somewhat of an industrialized department store feel to Project Avalon, whereas The One Truth is more of a boutique thing.

At least, that's my opinion. :)

[Fred Steeves]

All things considered, Bill Ryan is an information broker. Either he himself releases information which has come to him from the list of contacts that he built up while he was still working with Kerry Cassidy,

It's a strong hunch of mine that there was never much in the way of building up contacts, rather that the interviewees/contacts from Project Camelot were already lined up at the door when the dynamic duo got together (or was it more like an arranged marriage?). This would be a great question for a PA member to ask Bill, just how did so many amazing people fall into your lap so quickly, anxious to tell their top secret stories like you are the modern day Edward R. Murrow?

This is where my hunch comes in. Bill splashed onto the Alt Media scene out of seemingly nowhere in late 2005, with the Procect Serpo disclosures he had received from a supposed deep and mysterious insider referring to themselves as "Anonymous". Actually it wasn't out of nowhere, as Bill himself tells he had somehow been placed into an email chat type group, chock full of all manner of amazing high level insider type people. IIRC there were/is astronauts, spooks, high level military, big ufo people, physicists, etc. "Anonymous" contacted him from that group concerning the (supposed) planet Serpo and the (supposed) alien/astronaut exchange program, wanting to initiate Disclosure. Well to make a long story short, didn't take long for some researchers to catch on to all types of red flags with the story, and then come to find out it was very likely an ex spook named Richard Doty, a friend of Bill's, who was feeding him this "information".

As an aside, isn't it interesting that Richard Doty is also touted as the one most responsible for the MJ 12 releases?

Anyway, it makes sense to me that Doty was from this original email group, and that the sudden onslaught of big time insiders suddenly wanting to be interviewed, hailed from this group as well. The Serpo releases quickly became a joke in most serious quarters of the UFO community, an obvious disinformation campaign in which Bill gleefully initiated and fanned the flames (similar to "Charles/Atticus a few short years later), yet the high level insiders just kept popping out of the woodwork, making themselves readily available for Project Camelot's cameras *no matter* the stench from Serpo's waning credibility. How convenient... Is that how real life works, or perhaps that sounds a little too good to be true?

I also strongly suspect that many of the same people from this email group (besides PC's interviews), are many of the same highly respected Alt Media experts still telling us, to this very day, what's really going on out there. I think you would surely recognize many of the names. It wouldn't mean they are always wrong or full of shit, hell no, some of these really are serious brilliant people. What it would mean, is that we are drip by drip being steered in a certain desired direction.

[Aragorn]

It's a strong hunch of mine that there was never much in the way of building up contacts, rather that the interviewees/contacts from Project Camelot were already lined up at the door when the dynamic duo got together (or was it more like an arranged marriage?).

That is certainly an interesting idea to ponder.


This would be a great question for a PA member to ask Bill, just how did so many amazing people fall into your lap so quickly, anxious to tell their top secret stories like you are the modern day Edward R. Murrow?

Well, apart from the (legitimate or illegitimate) Grey Eminences™ of the so-called "alternative community" — people like Bob Dean, Clifford Stone (whom I consider legitimate), Joseph P. Farrell (whom I don't trust), David "Let's talk about my willy" Wilcock, Bill "I am the new Messiah" Deagle, David Icke, et al — there is also the whole gamut of attention seekers, who may or may not have an ulterior agenda, as well as that there will of course also be a few disinformation agents.

One such attention seeker who springs to mind right away as I'm writing this — albeit that I can name quite a few others as well — would be Bill "Wood" Brockbrader, who lured Kerry Cassidy into doing an interview with him because he supposedly had information on the alleged Project Looking Glass. What was really going on there was a US military guy — possibly (but not necessarily) US Navy — who was facing statutory rape charges (*), and who was seeking to escape a prison sentence by making himself into an "alternative community" celebrity with the unwitting help of Kerry Cassidy.


(*) According to Brockbrader, the girl was 16 at the time of their sexual relationship, but as it turned out later, she was actually only 12 years old at the time. That's not just statutory rape. That's pedophilia.

Kerry's interview of the guy was about 2 hours and 30 minutes long, and only in the last 15 minutes did the guy actually talk about the alleged Project Looking Glass. He didn't even have all too much to say about it, but he knew that he wouldn't have been able to score an interview with Kerry without bringing something like that into the mix — it's the only kind of thing that she's actually interested in, and if you really want her eyes to go all starry, then all you have to do is drop the word "Annunaki". ;)

Anyway, everything else Brockbrader said in that interview was about (true or false) covert US military operations that had allegedly been going on in Iraq, Yemen and other Middle-Eastern countries since the early 1990s, and how the guy knew all about that because he was supposedly a Navy SEAL and just as supposedly he had to guide the cruise missiles onto their targets with a laptop computer.

Maybe that was all true and maybe it wasn't. But the point is that the guy had misled Kerry Cassidy in order to score an interview with her, in the hope that it would somehow protect him from having to go to jail. Kerry's gullibility has attracted many other such wannabe-celebrities in the meantime, and continues to do so to this present day.

Given how the information — true or false — is all out there now, anyone could pick up on what some earlier interviewee or alleged whistleblower has said, and then add their own spin to that story. It's like you're looking to write a novel, but instead of coming up with a story of your own, you just pick out a few legends and conspiracy theories, and you weave them together. Anyone with a bit of imagination can do it.

On the other hand, there most certainly are deliberate disinformation agents at large, and Project Camelot has certainly interviewed its fair share of those as well. And it's not all disinformation that these people then reveal before the camera either. That's just what makes it so diabolical: they mix the truth with lies. I consider Daniel "Burisch" Craine such a disinformation agent. Yes, he was/is an insider. Yes, some of the things he said were true. But there were just as many lies woven into his story as there was truth to it.


This is where my hunch comes in. Bill splashed onto the Alt Media scene out of seemingly nowhere in late 2005, with the Procect Serpo disclosures he had received from a supposed deep and mysterious insider referring to themselves as "Anonymous".

[...]

I also strongly suspect that many of the same people from this email group (besides PC's interviews), are many of the same highly respected Alt Media experts still telling us, to this very day, what's really going on out there. I think you would surely recognize many of the names. It wouldn't mean they are always wrong or full of shit, hell no, some of these really are serious brilliant people. What it would mean, is that we are drip by drip being steered in a certain desired direction.

I'm not so sure whether "steered" would be the right word. "Led by the nose" and "positioned to chase our own tails" sounds more accurate to me. Case in point: too many of these "information sources" are contradicting each other. :hmm:

[Gio]

Yes, Joseph P. Farrell - while a highly intelligent (and entertaining) scholarly (type) writer,
I am beginning to suspect he's loving his (alternative community) celebrity a bit too much.

Men with Hats ...
I call him the new 'Marlboro' man.

http://solari.com/blog/jpfcrowdfund/images/joseph.jpg

giggle :)

[Aragorn]

Yes, Joseph P. Farrell - while a highly intelligent (and entertaining) scholarly (type) writer,
I am beginning to suspect he's loving his (alternative community) celebrity a bit too much.

As you can read here (http://jandeane81.com/threads/7660-Joseph-P-Farrell-will-take-TOT-members-questions-in-November), Joseph P. Farrell was supposed to do an interview with The One Truth in November 2015. Our former colleague bsbray, who himself has a very strong interest in historical research, contacted Mr. Farrell in August 2015 about doing an interview, and he tentatively agreed.

However, after bsbray had explained to Joseph Farrell what The One Truth is and what kind of subjects we commonly discuss here, Mr. Farrell appeared very suspicious of The One Truth — while he is undoubtedly very familiar with Project Avalon and Project Camelot, given that he has already been interviewed by Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy. He wanted to know if we are "a religious organization", which is another strange question, given that Mr. Farrell has a degree in Christian Science, indicating that he himself would be a religious person.

bsbray then again explained to Mr. Farrell that The One Truth is a forum and that spirituality is one of the umbrella topics up for discussion here, but that it is certainly not the only one, and that The One Truth as a whole does not adhere to any specific religions or other spiritual convictions. Mr. Farrell then agreed to do the interview with us after his return from a conference on the Secret Space Program. Everything in his last e-mail to bsbray suggests that he had added it to his agenda.

He never got back to us. Rule #1 in the handbook of the narcissist: "Never offer yourself up for anything. Let them come to you instead, and let them beg."

[donk]

I think realtionships are the most important thing. Not just with each other, but our relationship to the information we consume. This is where I ran into irreconcible with Bill

I KNEW that his honest feelings and experiences with David Wilcock would shed much needed light on the gaps in the story of the rise of the GoodET, and got emotionally attached to the idea that he SHOULD agree

He didn't, apparently nothing about their relationship mattered. Corey "emerged" on to the scene in a sort of vacuum, and chose to go under DW's wing for reasons...nothing else mattered and nothing could be learned from it

Besides the character issues that a lot of people attribute to being human and forgive and forget cuz no one's perfect, I believe that this is the pattern that is of concern to those like myself that try to be "serious researchers". Even if you can detach from the person he is and just look at the data he presents, he repeatedly brings incredible stories from people with anomalous experiences...which I guess is what the majority of the people want

More than the "information" these people bring, I wanted to know more about how this is coming into our awareness. The complaint of the disclosure people is that there's never any evidence, mine is that there never seems to be a coherent story as to how it became disclosed

Again, Corey is the hardest to reconcile example, a regular poster we were told to pretend to not know (much like the marriage to Christine). I guess they needed some faux air of secrecy to be created as if BR was somehow protecting him

Inelia was the cover girl when I first found PA, but she hadn't posted in so long I never found a word from her. The Charles thing (not to mention Serpo) was not only left with more questions than answers...it seemed "impolite" for a newcomer to dare ask any

I guess I expected the founder of a truth/conspiracy/disclosure community to provide more transparency and share all of his experiences, and found what I perceived to be someone who preferred to play cards tightly and whether intentionally or not cause more intrigue than he resolved

So I guess pointing this out, as well as sharing actual experiences with him I feel expose more of character than he's publicly willing to show, could be seen as me being in the "throwing him under the bus" club. But I realize I'm more disappointed in the vocal folks that are quicker to excuse what I consider his shirking the responsibility of the position he has or the role he plays than they are to hold him accountable for engaging in the behavior they criticize in others

An abuser is gonna abuse. A victim is gonna be a victim. Only by getting as much of the entire picture as we can, from honestly considering all the data we can gather and experiences we have, can we make informed decisions and judgements on a person or situation. Otherwise we are enabling, perpetuating, or worsening the perceived problem

Maybe me and the rest of critics are wrong, and he brings more light than he does murkiness to the muddy waters of this virtual realm...if he cares enough about this perspective I provide to take the time to correct it, but even if he doesn't....I (particularly a lot of the aspects of the person I learned to be from lessons on PA) consider providing my perspective a gift to him and something to consider to whom I see as "enablers" of a problem I was really emotionally attached to....

...In the process learning much about myself and people (and psychology) that is very practical and often applied to my "real" life

[donk]

As you can read here (http://jandeane81.com/threads/7660-Joseph-P-Farrell-will-take-TOT-members-questions-in-November), Joseph P. Farrell was supposed to do an interview with The One Truth in November 2015. Our former colleague bsbray, who himself has a very strong interest in historical research, contacted Mr. Farrell in August 2015 about doing an interview, and he tentatively agreed.

However, after bsbray had explained to Joseph Farrell what The One Truth is and what kind of subjects we commonly discuss here, Mr. Farrell appeared very suspicious of The One Truth — while he is undoubtedly very familiar with Project Avalon and Project Camelot, given that he has already been interviewed by Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy. He wanted to know if we are "a religious organization", which is another strange question, given that Mr. Farrell has a degree in Christian Science, indicating that he himself would be a religious person.

bsbray then again explained to Mr. Farrell that The One Truth is a forum and that spirituality is one of the umbrella topics up for discussion here, but that it is certainly not the only one, and that The One Truth as a whole does not adhere to any specific religions or other spiritual convictions. Mr. Farrell then agreed to do the interview with us after his return from a conference on the Secret Space Program. Everything in his last e-mail to bsbray suggests that he had added it to his agenda.

He never got back to us. Rule #1 in the handbook of the narcissist: "Never offer yourself up for anything. Let them come to you instead, and let them beg."

This is what I'm talk about right here...everything up to that last "Everything..." line (aragorn's conclusion) is the type of data I consider as important (and perhaps more so) as any correctly sourced solid bit of evidence can be in this realm

IMO--The failing of the mainstream media leading us to search for an "alternative" is in that it delivers "facts" with absolutely no information about where they came from. The "what" is important...don't ask "why"...just know we are the authority of truth

Anyone honestly intended entering this realm SHOULD be eager to be transparent in the WHOLE story, a very important component of which is how they got it. And when they fail at that, as is human to do....openly and extensively examine the problems that created what really amounts to a "fake news" disclosure

This is my opinion of course, just an explanation of the personal problems I have that people like to distort. Who I am is someone who is insulted by the idea that I'd trust the "sterling integrity" of any piece of data or transmitter who's unwilling to do those things, especially when scrutinized

[DNA]

Bill Ryan knew exactly what was going on with Simon Parkes, and yet he chose to "aid and abet" Simon Parkes because Parkes had threatened to sue both him and the whole of Project Avalon — which is Simon Parkes' typical modus operandi — and The Man With The Hat™ took it seriously.
Not wishing to be sued doesn't amount to "aiding and abetting".


Señor Ryan is a wanted man in at least one country that I know of — i.e. the USA, and more specifically in the state of California, where he was convicted in absentia (*) — and possibly in two or three other countries as well. Trust me, he's not looking forward to appearing before a judge.

I've been a wanted man due to a warrant out I had for jay walking once. True story.
I also forgot a court date for illegal lane change. Bam I was a wanted man.
They were way expensive due to their reaching "warrant state". This has nothing to do with the Simon Parks thing, and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. A lot of people have had warrants out on them, does that make them all terrorists or something? Try and keep in mind the United States has the highest percentage of their citizens imprisoned of any country in the world.



[INDENT](*) [I]The case of the fake Picasso. And I do believe that Bill himself may have been conned in that matter — not that he was, but it is quite possible.

This again doesn't have anything to do with his running a forum, which I would think is the only thing pertinent in this discussion being as this is the Avalon files.


Yes, because nowadays, with more and more complaints about and evidence against Simon Parkes having come in, Bill Ryan can't afford to turn a blind eye anymore, and so he had no other choice but to take an open stance in the matter and publicly denounce Simon Parkes' misconduct. But that has nothing to do with ethics or wanting to protect the innocent. It was a purely politically motivated move on his part.
You can't give him any credit for doing the right thing? Even if it was later than you would have wished?



I think I know him a lot better than you do, Marcus. When I joined Project Avalon, I too looked up to the guy. I considered him a hero. But then his mask fell off only two weeks later, when he chose to make an example out of me over a stupid misunderstanding, which then prompted him to post a hugely self-glorifying thread a few days later.

I remember this, and I for one think it was a mistake on his part to over react and kick you off of his forum. In the final analysis though it kind of benefited you. You ended up coming over to TOT and now you are the administrator here, which is pretty kick ass. Right?
I understand holding things like that as a personal affront, and I understand also feeling slighted and wishing to take your grievance to a third party for validating your sense of insult. That is kind of what this is, and the public reading this being the third party providing validation.
I've done this myself a few times when I've felt wronged.


From that moment on, I started seeing Bill Ryan as a person with a good side and a bad side. But I had no idea yet at that point in time just how dark this bad side of him was, until his feud with Corey broke out.
I've personally got no beef with Corey. When the deal went down on Avalon slamming Corey for his wild claims of gas giant planet sized space ships I actually defended the guy. Not because I believed him, but because in my opinion this wasn't any more far fetched than a lot of the stuff going around, and I didn't think it could really do any harm. If folks were going to fall for this then by depriving them of Corey they are just going to fall for something else. Buyer beware is how feel, and I don't believe the alternative community needs to be protected by Bill Ryan in the case of Corey. Just like I don't think the alternative community needs to be protected by Aragorn from Bill Ryan. We are all adults here, and we should all have the ability to make our own decisions. By you cut and pasting this long argument I've seen before everytime someone utters something positive about Bill Ryan you are kind of hi-jacking The One Truth as a personal vendetta vehicle in my opinion. We are all human and I sympathize with your plight and your feelings but you could benefit by thinking about this. We would all be better served putting our time and energy into current events rather than serving as the third party presiding over your sense of being wronged by Bill Ryan and thus providing you with validation that you are justified and your sense of honor restored. If I could wave a magic wand and restore your hurt feelings in this case without at the same time throwing Bill Ryan under the bus I would do it in a heart beat.


And from then on, over how he attempted to get information about Corey from me by sending me a PM while posing as Atlas/Buares, all through the way he managed to push Christine, Claudia and Hazel out of the mod team and then lied about the circumstances on the open forum, up to how he handled the Simon Parkes affair and how both Laura and I were banned, not to mention that he tried to get bsbray to edit out Bill Ryan's name from posts made here at The One Truth by Lord Sidious — which bsbray did not do and which he instead reported to the mod room — I think I've seen enough of the man to have an idea of what he's capable of, thank you very much.
Bill has a sense of honor and pride just like you do Aragorn, and in this case it seems he was attempting to remedy perceived wrongs and even in some cases hoping certain non-flattering things would just go away.
We all have pride, and we all have feelings that can be wounded. None of these things amount to calling someone the names and labels I've seen you throw his way though. This is just my opinion.





Yes, Machiavellianism, really.
On the contrary. I've had a girlfriend once who was a dark triad as well, and my brother was married to one for twenty years. But perhaps you don't properly understand what Machiavellians do.
You stating them under a label doesn't make it so. You need to include their actions for "us" the third party to decide if you know how to use these phrases properly.
For me Machiavellian is Lord Sidious from Star Wars issuing order 66 and eliminating all of the Jedi including sending Anakin to the Jedi temple to kill off all of the children Jedi so as to insure he has no civil war incited by the Jedi in the future.
Now that is Machiavellian. The term is usually reserved for leaders/royalty killing of their leader/royal opposition so as to cement their leadership status over a recently conquered territory.
I just felt it was overly dramatic to use the term so loosely as to apply it to a conspiracy site and the silly politics practiced within. It is part of a psychological label barrage you use in an over the top attempt to label and besmirch Bill Ryan. I think this kind of attack is really over doing it, and I think it is the result of your personal feelings and sense of honor being wounded due to his kicking you off of his forum. Which I will agree that you did not deserve to be kicked off of his forum, and in that sense I do believe you were wronged. But I certainly do not agree with all of the psychological labels you throw around nor do I believe for a second the Machiavellian label.



My dear Marcus, I have so far done nothing but substantiate my claims. It is not my fault that you refuse to see the substantiation. And your reaction to what I have said about the man — and which everyone with their eyes open can ascertain for the truth — is a textbook example of being in denial. You've put the guy up on a pedestal and you're grasping at straws and looking for excuses so as to dismiss the ugly truths about him.

I see Bill Ryan for what he is, and I see you for what you are Aragorn. I see you as a person who has been wounded and of whom has a sense of honor that needs to be avenged and or validated. I hope I have served in some capacity to help validate your sense of being wronged, while at the same time I will argue against the label you have attempted to sculpt for Bill Ryan via your off based psychological terminology and over the top Ganghis Khan comparisons.
I have also viewed you as a top notch intellect, and I think you do an absolutely wonderful job as administrator on The One Truth, with the exception of occasionally hijacking the platform to attack Bill Ryan with.




All of the examples you list here are manifestations of psychopathy — or sociopathy, if you will; they are two different names for the same condition — but that is not Machiavellianism. There is of course a little bit of overlap, but Machiavellians are specifically known for their way of manipulating people through intrigue, spin, half-truths and lies.

A man who sexually abuses his own children is a psychopath, but not necessarily a Machiavellian. A man who slips drugs into someone's food or drink in order to sexually take advantage of them is also a psychopath, but also not necessarily a Machiavellian.

I will give you that. But a true Machiavellian would be a psychopath in my opinion and that was what I was attempting to communicate here. My point here being that someone who is simply manipulative without really trying or be willing to harm anyone is not really Machiavellian.


I have both extensive experience with and a proper psychiatric understanding of the conditions to substantiate what I say. I am also a master of observation — courtesy of that autism, you know?
The key phrase here would be "observation". I'm of the opinion one can not know true human dynamics without truly participating in them. I get the sense that you observe quite a bit more than you interact. If that is not the case then I can completely accept being wrong on this account.
I've had two really good friends with Asbergers. One her name was/is Connie. Connie is one of the most intelligent accomplished people I've ever met. She could play an acoustic guitar amazingly and sing Irish Gailic in a way that was absolutely spell binding. She had body karate, she was amazingly well built for her age, 50ish, a gentleman never asks :tiphat:. She was a commercial graphics art designer and we began going out after she found something I had written on the net and so she contacted me and we started going out. I was a young lad of about 30 at the time. Now although Connie could learn anything and was by all accounts a certifiable genius she did not get social cues. For instance we went on three dates and everytime we went out we were getting tons of attention in the form of judgement based on our age difference. Connie was oblivious to this, but I on the other hand being highly empathic was catching this judgement like a D sized battery to the head. There were other instances of this, and this was probably why things ended romantically but we continued to be friends. I noted as I continued being friends with her that this problem caused her to not be able to maintain lasting romantic relationships. This exact same deal is why another friend of mine was in the exact same point. A man by the name of Owen. He had only experienced a few romantic relationships and then gave up on them because although he was extremely intelligent he didn't quite get the dynamics of relationships and as such he did not remain active in them. I can understand why having relationships on line would be preferential here because it helps to filter out the nuances of human interaction that are so often lost on folks with Asbergers.
But,,,
That being the case I feel folks who do not participate in true relationships in the physical 3-D world miss the dynamic of RISK that is involved with face to face human interaction. They do not develop a deep meaningful relationship that involves being witness and potential victim to the harms most people are constantly having to deal with in these terms.
So while I'm agreeing with you in terms of Bill Ryan having wronged you by kicking you off of Avalon, I also think this may have been perceived by yourself as a far greater wrong than it really was because of a lack of criteria with which to judge it from on your part. Now I may be absolutely wrong here and if that is the case then so be it.
A case in point.
I don't know if you work from home or have to go to work, but this is a story about my last job.
I had made friends with a woman who was a bit of a conniver and who would attempt to throw people under the bus to make her self look better.
Now I say I was friends with her, but the fact of the matter was, I had to work with her for eight hours a day, and as such even though I knew these bad qualities about her, she had good qualities as well.
I focused on her good qualities and attempted to get along with her as much as possible.
I also was able to smooth over the damage done by her gossip and such because I worked with her.
But the day came when she switched shifts and I no longer worked with her and as such I was no longer able to put out the fires she started.
Case in point, my Boss one day sat me down to give me a bogus write up. The write up had to be witnessed by his superior and it was a pretty big deal, my job was on the line. I was completely blind sided by this write up because the reason for writing me up was completely made up and I quickly deduced what had happening here here.
It was the gossipy co-worker I had, her name was Griffin. It turns out that she wanted my position and in an all out attempt to get my position she was starting fires and the folks she was starting them with couldn't see her for what she was.
I tried to reason with my boss, but to no avail, he was literally seething with hatred for me and as he talked spit was flying out of his mouth in all directions. When I attempted to direct him to the root of the problem by stating that he should interview the witnesses mentioned in the write up he refused. He refused because he knew the write up was bogus, he was writing me up because of the gossip and negative sentiment my former co-worker had managed to convince him was the truth. To this day I still have no idea what seeds of dessent Mrs. Griffin had sewn. Long story short I had to go over my bosses head, and his bosses head by going to Human Resources in an attempt to save my job, which worked by the way being as I had the cooperation of the people who had supposedly witnessed why I had been written up.
Now what is the point of my story with Mrs. Griffin?
My point is this.
Mrs. Griffin and her type are actually pretty common in the work place. I've worked with Mrs. Griffin types so often as to not even be able to count their number.
Her attacks on me were defamatory in every sense of the word, she was trying to remove my ability to make a living for myself and for my family and my sense of honor was badly damaged in this incident.
And yet I wouldn't use any of the words to describe her that you used to describe Mr. Ryan.
Why?
Because traits such as these exist in such a large portion of the human population as to make them a part of life that we all have to deal with when dealing with human beings.
My point here is that if I were to hold on to every time I've been wronged such as this I would be a festering mess of hatred and misery.
And my point also here is that, again although what Bill has done to you by kicking you off of Avalon was wrong, it is something that you have to get over.
The fact you have held on to it this long is what lends me to believe you haven't interacted with your fellow humans in the real world very often, or you too would have met enough Mrs. Griffins as to make your Bill Ryan episode pale and fade by comparison. You too would have learned that affronts to your pride and honor have got to be minimized, gotten over and forgotten about for if anything else, "your personal sanity".



I see things other people don't see. Not because they're not there, but because other people's brains filter those things out as "unimportant information".

But you dwell when others let those things go.




You obviously know as little about me as you do about Bill Ryan. I have no desire to play a hero. I am more concerned with who and what I really am than with how people perceive me. And I can assure you that there are quite a few people who think very lowly of me — and if you truly believe what you've just said about me here-above, then I'm counting you as one of those people as well.
I don't think lowly of you at all Aragorn. I would count myself as one of your fans in the big picture. Just not where Bill Ryan is concerned. You say I know nothing about you, but I know you are very concerned about your honor and I know it is very important to you to make sure your honor is in tact and that includes addressing slights you feel you have received. And in this case standing up for the honor of others as in the Simon Parks case and those he has wronged is important to you as well. I think that is just. I just don't think Bill Ryan disserves the blame for the actions of Simon Parks.
He doesn't deserve 1% of it.
But when you are throwing around words like Machiavelian and psychopath and sociopath you are attempting to vilify Bill Ryan to the extent Simon Parks should be, and you should realize that is not the case.

But fair enough. You're in denial and you want me to shut up about the guy, so that's what I'm going to do. I believe I see some elevated terrain over yonder, and thus I will take my leave from this thread.
I hope you realize what you've just said here-above. You've just insulted every rape victim in the world.
I really do not think I'm in denial but you are welcome to have your opinion of me. I feel that I'm exercising a greater range over understanding human nature than you have experientially speaking. You call yourself an "observer" of human nature but I will reiterate that will teach you almost nothing in terms of what is really going on. I do not think the excessive dark language you are using applies to the people you are making attempts to label. I think you can do a lot of harm with this kind of verbal assault. If you want to state the facts fine, but trying to paint someone as you have over difference of opinion over their forum administrating and going so far as to pull up their past legal records and speculate about records you have no proof exist is a blatent attack on someone's life. I doubt I will ever affect your opinion on this whole matter Aragorn and this is fine, I just wanted to respond in a thoughtful manner and show you that I have digested and listened to what you have said.
And in so far as Simon Parks is concerned, I was not aware he had raped anyone, as such I absolutely apologize and retract my previous attempt at humor if it has offended someone who was involved in the Simon Parks fiasco.
Sincerely Best Wishes
DNA

[Aragorn]

Bill Ryan knew exactly what was going on with Simon Parkes, and yet he chose to "aid and abet" Simon Parkes because Parkes had threatened to sue both him and the whole of Project Avalon — which is Simon Parkes' typical modus operandi — and The Man With The Hat™ took it seriously.

Not wishing to be sued doesn't amount to "aiding and abetting".

It does in a court of law. Besides, Bill Ryan did more than avoid being sued. He got down on his knees and offered King Solomon the apology of every member of Project Avalon.

Bill Ryan's decision to let Simon Parkes get away with what he was doing was also only partly inspired by The Hat Man™'s fear of litigation. Simon Parkes brought new members to Project Avalon, and new members bring in new donations.


I've been a wanted man due to a warrant out I had for jay walking once. True story.
I also forgot a court date for illegal lane change. Bam I was a wanted man.

And I thought Belgium was bad. :shocked: I've been convicted in court for having parked in the wrong place once — I kid you not, and it is my only conviction ever — but I've never actually had a warrant out on me.


They were way expensive due to their reaching "warrant state". This has nothing to do with the Simon Parks thing, and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. A lot of people have had warrants out on them, does that make them all terrorists or something? Try and keep in mind the United States has the highest percentage of their citizens imprisoned of any country in the world.

I was not referring to Bill Ryan being a wanted man in the United States of Acronyms in order to paint him in a bad daylight, but merely in order to provide some context to what I was describing.

However, according to his conviction — which you can view online; just ask Malc for the case number — he owes the plaintiff about $250'000 USD, I believe. You may want to ask him why he never paid back that money. Or do you really think that he spent it all on running the Project Avalon servers?

One Avalon member at the time — back when I was still a member there myself — told me that Bill had invited her and several other Avalon members to some meeting on account of a financial transaction, but for some reason she never heard anything of that anymore. This may have been around the time of the "Charles"/"Atticus" affair and his idea for The Eighteen™. I don't know.

But anyway, this woman had also visited Bill and Christine in Ecuador and has stayed with them for a while. And what she told me was that she thought Bill was quite a money shark, even though she added that she didn't know what he did with his money, because his car was a wreck on wheels and he always wore the same old clothes. He also doesn't care about luxury at the house and he'll put down his butt wherever there's a spot he can sit. She added, "Maybe he's just hoarding it."




(*) The case of the fake Picasso. And I do believe that Bill himself may have been conned in that matter — not that he was, but it is quite possible.

This again doesn't have anything to do with his running a forum, which I would think is the only thing pertinent in this discussion being as this is the Avalon files.

If you want people to understand what you're talking about, then you have to provide the proper context, and that is all I was doing. Don't go looking for something that isn't there.



Yes, because nowadays, with more and more complaints about and evidence against Simon Parkes having come in, Bill Ryan can't afford to turn a blind eye anymore, and so he had no other choice but to take an open stance in the matter and publicly denounce Simon Parkes' misconduct. But that has nothing to do with ethics or wanting to protect the innocent. It was a purely politically motivated move on his part.

You can't give him any credit for doing the right thing? Even if it was later than you would have wished?

He wasn't "doing the right thing". He was forced to take a stance in order to preserve his own reputation and that of Project Avalon as a forum. The fact that this change in stance agreed with The Right Thing™ is merely a coincidental convenience.

Bill Ryan couldn't care less about Simon Parkes' victims, nor about doing the right thing. He does however care a great deal about his own public image. That's why he slyly tried to get bsbray to edit out his (Bill Ryan's) name from (already old) posts here at The One Truth in which Lord Sidious had uttered his personal opinion that Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy would be working for the alphabet agency spooks.

The Man With The Hat™ wanted his own name removed from those posts, and from all posts where Lord Sidious had been quoted saying that, even though he did not request the same with regard to Kerry Cassidy or David Wilcock, who had been named as well in Rob's posts.



I think I know him a lot better than you do, Marcus. When I joined Project Avalon, I too looked up to the guy. I considered him a hero. But then his mask fell off only two weeks later, when he chose to make an example out of me over a stupid misunderstanding, which then prompted him to post a hugely self-glorifying thread a few days later.

I remember this, and I for one think it was a mistake on his part to over react and kick you off of his forum. In the final analysis though it kind of benefited you. You ended up coming over to TOT and now you are the administrator here, which is pretty kick ass. Right?

You are conflating a few things. That which I am speaking of in the quotes here-above took place within two weeks after my joining up at Project Avalon — i.e. January 2014. My being banned from Project Avalon was more than a year later — in March 2015 — and completely unrelated to the events I was speaking of higher up.

But yes, coming over to The One Truth — which I did after you recommended it to me, because I wasn't really familiar with The One Truth, given that I had never really been "a forum person" — was probably the best thing that could have happened to me, forum-wise. When I was first enlisted as a moderator here, one member here — a Dutchman — left a message on my visitor messages board in Dutch, which translates to something like...


"Way to go: from a pariah over at Project Avalon to a moderator at The One Truth. In any case, you know how not to do it."

As I wrote earlier already, the first thing I noticed after signing up here was how different the atmosphere was here at The One Truth, compared to the cult feel of Project Avalon.


I understand holding things like that as a personal affront, and I understand also feeling slighted and wishing to take your grievance to a third party for validating your sense of insult. That is kind of what this is, and the public reading this being the third party providing validation.
I've done this myself a few times when I've felt wronged.

I'm afraid you are dead wrong in that analysis. It is only personal to me because I take any kind of injustice personally. And it doesn't even have anything to do with the fact that I was banned from there.

I was already sick and tired of the Avalon cult during my last months there anyway, because I had come to see more and more of Bill Ryan's dark side, which he meticulously keeps hidden from the public view. And I sure as hell was sick and tired of the cultish nature of Avalon's member base and the caste-like justice system maintained by the moderators over there, where certain members are given much more credit and leeway than others.

It was also Bill Ryan himself who provided Simon Parkes with my legal name and my private e-mail address so that he could threaten to sue me. Likewise, Bill Ryan also gave Simon Parkes Malc's real name and private e-mail address. That was in late March to early April 2015, and Malc had already no longer been a member of Project Avalon since 2011.

But as I said earlier, Bill Ryan meticulously keeps track of everything he finds of concern — which is a typically Machiavellian trait. Malc started The One Truth in 2011, and that made him into a target of Bill Ryan's wrath — The Hat Man™ is quite a vindictive man. And it was this vindictiveness that made him decide to pass both Malc's and my private information onto Simon Parkes, so that he could threaten us.

Nevertheless, I am stating the above because it is the truth, not because I have a personal grudge against Bill Ryan over the fact that he chastised me and then started a self-glorifying thread about it, nor over the fact that he banned me — I was glad that he did, because, as I said already, I was already long fed up with Project Avalon and its chanting cult — and I don't even hold any grudge against Bill Ryan for having passed on my private e-mail address and my legal name to Simon Parkes.

You may think of that as you wish, but I am not the one in denial here. You do not know this about me, but I'm the kind of guy who takes a cold hard look at himself every hour of the day, and I am much harder on myself than I am on anyone else. Being perfectly honest with myself is imperative to me, and so I also know that when I speak of my motives, then I am speaking the truth, instead of hiding behind some repressed trauma.



From that moment on, I started seeing Bill Ryan as a person with a good side and a bad side. But I had no idea yet at that point in time just how dark this bad side of him was, until his feud with Corey broke out.

I've personally got no beef with Corey. When the deal went down on Avalon slamming Corey for his wild claims of gas giant planet sized space ships I actually defended the guy. Not because I believed him, but because in my opinion this wasn't any more far fetched than a lot of the stuff going around, and I didn't think it could really do any harm.

I found Corey's story fascinating, but not important. My friendship with Corey was simply based upon the fact that Bill Ryan and — when it comes to the open forum, to a much greater extent — other Avalon members were taking cheap pot shots at Corey. I thought he was legitimate — in the sense that I believed that he believed what he was saying — and that he meant well.

And so Corey kept me in the loop of what was going on behind the scenes when Bill Ryan started his private little war with Corey. I have seen e-mails sent by Bill Ryan — both signed and anonymous — in which Bill Ryan was bullying and insulting Corey, and falsely accusing Corey of wanting to destroy Avalon. Up until that point, Corey still pretty much had his act together — it was only later that he turned psychotic and paranoid, after he had already long transferred to The One Truth — and Bill Ryan was doing everything he could to destroy Corey, because Corey had been sent a 72-page FBI file (as a hard copy) on Bill Ryan by one of his InfraGard contacts.

That's when Bill Ryan attempted to find out from me what was in that file, which he did by sending me a PM under the identity of Atlas/Buares — obviously with the latter's consent, because Bill Ryan had no idea at what hour of the day I was going to reply to it. It was literally word for word written by Bill Ryan — I've had other PM exchanges with The Hat Man™ as well, and Bill has a very unique style, both in terms of the actual writing and in terms of how he initiates a conversation — all the way down to how it was signed off, with one little difference: it said "Atlas" instead of "Bill".

Once again, you don't notice these things, Marcus — and neither will the vast majority — but I do. It's one of the traits of my being autistic.


If folks were going to fall for this then by depriving them of Corey they are just going to fall for something else. Buyer beware is how feel, and I don't believe the alternative community needs to be protected by Bill Ryan in the case of Corey. Just like I don't think the alternative community needs to be protected by Aragorn from Bill Ryan. We are all adults here, and we should all have the ability to make our own decisions.

In other words, anyone who is wronged by someone else must have been looking for that to happen? Is that what you're saying?


By you cut and pasting this long argument I've seen before everytime someone utters something positive about Bill Ryan you are kind of hi-jacking The One Truth as a personal vendetta vehicle in my opinion.

Yes, I know that this is your opinion. And your opinion couldn't be more wrong.


We are all human and I sympathize with your plight and your feelings but you could benefit by thinking about this. We would all be better served putting our time and energy into current events rather than serving as the third party presiding over your sense of being wronged by Bill Ryan and thus providing you with validation that you are justified and your sense of honor restored. If I could wave a magic wand and restore your hurt feelings in this case without at the same time throwing Bill Ryan under the bus I would do it in a heart beat.

I don't have any hurt feelings about Bill Ryan at a personal level. I am however appalled by how the man manipulates people, lies to people, opportunistically takes advantage of them, then puts up his archetypal "charming British gentleman" face before everyone, and then goes to sleep in the evening feeling perfectly good about himself. That sort of thing disgusts me.


Bill has a sense of honor and pride just like you do Aragorn [...]

Pride, yes. Honor, not by a long shot.



Yes, Machiavellianism, really

You stating them under a label doesn't make it so.

You simply refuse to acknowledge the possibility that I would be right. Not only do you like Bill Ryan, but you want to like him. You find it inconceivable that he would indeed be what I say he is.

And that is what I call denial.


For me Machiavellian is Lord Sidious from Star Wars issuing order 66 and eliminating all of the Jedi including sending Anakin to the Jedi temple to kill off all of the children Jedi so as to insure he has no civil war incited by the Jedi in the future.

That's an example where violence is involved, but Machiavellianism is normally far more subtle. Like I said, a Machiavellian manipulates other people like chess pieces and hasn't got a shred of remorse or compassion.

Machiavellians are often found in politics — both of the Clintons are Machiavellians — but just as often in the corporate sector. If you look at Microsoft's track record, ever since the company got started, up until today, then that's pure Machiavellianism, even though I will admit that Microsoft's current CEO Satya Nadella is by far not as bad as Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer were.

Machiavellians are strategists. They are not necessarily violent people, and they are masters at using charm and conversation for manipulating people.


Now that is Machiavellian. The term is usually reserved for leaders/royalty killing of their leader/royal opposition so as to cement their leadership status over a recently conquered territory.

I don't know where you got that, but that's definitely not correct. You are conflating psychopathy with Machiavellianism. There is overlap, and some psychiatrists do consider Machiavellianism to be a subcategory of psychopathy, but there is still a difference between typical psychopathic behavior and Machiavellian behavior.


I just felt it was overly dramatic to use the term so loosely as to apply it to a conspiracy site and the silly politics practiced within. It is part of a psychological label barrage you use in an over the top attempt to label and besmirch Bill Ryan.

No, it isn't, but your attempt at besmirching myself here is a pretty good one, I might add.


I think this kind of attack is really over doing it, and I think it is the result of your personal feelings and sense of honor being wounded due to his kicking you off of his forum.

No, it isn't. I have explained this higher up already. It has nothing to do with what he did to me personally. I am merely painting the man for what he is, and for what you refuse to see.


I see Bill Ryan for what he is, and I see you for what you are Aragorn.

<LOL> No, you don't. :)


[...] I have also viewed you as a top notch intellect, and I think you do an absolutely wonderful job as administrator on The One Truth, with the exception of occasionally hijacking the platform to attack Bill Ryan with.

Wrong again. You're making quite a habit of it.

I am not "attacking" Bill Ryan. I am calling him as I am seeing him, and I am seeing him for who and what he really is. And I am not hijacking anything. Bill Ryan and Project Avalon are inseparable subjects, and this thread is about Project Avalon and the so-called "alternative community", in which Bill Ryan and Project Avalon play a significant role. Ergo, the information I share about Bill Ryan is pertinent.

And I wouldn't have to do it so often if people were paying a little more attention and weren't so quick to forget. That is probably my biggest gripe with humanity: they don't learn from their mistakes, because they dismiss and they forget.


But a true Machiavellian would be a psychopath in my opinion and that was what I was attempting to communicate here.

See higher up — there is some overlap between a Machiavellian personality type and a psychopath, but they are not the same thing. What they have in common is their lack of compassion and empathy. How they go about their business is quite different.

A Machiavellian is incredibly calculated and strategic, and usually exhibits a great deal of charm. A typical psychopath is much colder and far more offensive in their social behavior.


My point here being that someone who is simply manipulative without really trying or be willing to harm anyone is not really Machiavellian.

Again, that is not correct. A Machiavellian does not necessarily seek to harm anyone. They simply seek to manipulate the world around them to their advantage. And if they must do something "good" in order to get there, then they will. And if they must harm somebody in order to get there, then they will do that too.

It doesn't matter to them. Good and evil are both just abstract concepts in their mind. They don't experience anything as being inherently "good" or inherently "evil". And in that, they are like the typical psychopath. But a psychopath is bolder and less equipped for playing the people around him like the pieces on a chessboard.

A Machiavellian will only seldom openly display anger or be rude. They know they can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.


The key phrase here would be "observation". I'm of the opinion one can not know true human dynamics without truly participating in them. I get the sense that you observe quite a bit more than you interact. If that is not the case then I can completely accept being wrong on this account.

Good. You may consider yourself wrong then.


I've had two really good friends with Asbergers. [...]

I have seen you spell it like that before, so now I think that I have to inform you of the fact that this is an insult. "Asbergers" and "Assburgers" are mock names for people with Asperger syndrome — note the spelling.

That said, I am a high-functioning autistic adult, and even though the DSM-IV considered that to be one and the same thing as Asperger syndrome — the DSM-5 doesn't even mention Asperger's anymore as a separate diagnosis — there is a difference in social behavior between my type of autism and Asperger's.

What you describe in the section that I've snipped — because this is getting long and tiresome — is consistent with the stereotypical Aspie, but I am not like that, even though I may have missed more social cues when I was younger. But the typical Aspie is also often portrayed as being terse, direct, and even a bit mechanical in their speech and in their movements, and that certainly does not correspond with myself.


[...] So while I'm agreeing with you in terms of Bill Ryan having wronged you by kicking you off of Avalon, I also think this may have been perceived by yourself as a far greater wrong than it really was because of a lack of criteria with which to judge it from on your part. Now I may be absolutely wrong here and if that is the case then so be it.

Yes, you are grossly wrong. I've already said that a dozen times by now. Let go of that fixation of wanting to defend Bill Ryan at all cost and of wanting to attribute whatever I say about him to some unprocessed trauma of mine.

I am glad that I got kicked off of Avalon. The only thing that still kept me there at the time was the fact that I had met some people there with whom I wanted to remain in contact. But those people were also registered here, so nothing was lost when Bill Ryan dropped the ban hammer on me.

On the contrary, I have loved it here at The One Truth from the first day on, and I still do.


[...] It was the gossipy co-worker I had, her name was Griffin. It turns out that she wanted my position and in an all out attempt to get my position she was starting fires and the folks she was starting them with couldn't see her for what she was. [...]

Machiavellianism in the workplace is a very common phenomenon.




I see things other people don't see. Not because they're not there, but because other people's brains filter those things out as "unimportant information".

But you dwell when others let those things go.

It's exactly because they are letting things go so easily that this world is in such a mess. People don't respect the truth, and they don't respect themselves. (Self-esteem and self-respect are two very different things.)


:back to topic:

[jonsnow]

Well my comment on bill Ryan ....







...... end comment

[Fred Steeves]

With all this Machiavellian talk, thought the name's sake biography by Niccolo Machiavelli might be useful to some. It comes with my highest recommendation:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28862.The_Prince

For those without time or inclination to read a whole book, the cliff notes:
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/p/the-prince/book-summary

[Myst]

.

[Myst]

.

[Fred Steeves]

Having personally encountered several false gurus, as I think of them, who either intentionally or unconsciously cloaked their darkness with their light, and having eventually healed from the sting of being deceived and manipulated, I now appreciate what they taught me by reflecting to me my own true condition.

We are all a blend of dark and light, and balancing polarity is the path to oneness. To the extent we hold judgement against one pole or the other, we reject part of oneness. Having accepted and allowed all, we are free to choose according to our true nature and are no longer bound to that which we resist.

Well now, this would be the higher aspect of The Avalon Files you are bringing up. Shadow work, dark nights of the soul, finding one's way through Chapel Perilous. Invaluable experience, honing in on that sweet spot right smack in the middle of the two opposing poles.

Don Juan thought the warrior extremely fortunate to encounter a petty tyrant:


We know that nothing can temper the spirit of a warrior as much as the challenge of dealing with impossible people in positions of power. Only under those conditions can warriors acquire the sobriety and serenity to stand the pressure of the unknowable.

[Maggie]

Having personally encountered several false gurus, as I think of them, who either intentionally or unconsciously cloaked their darkness with their light, and having eventually healed from the sting of being deceived and manipulated, I now appreciate what they taught me by reflecting to me my own true condition.

We are all a blend of dark and light, and balancing polarity is the path to oneness. To the extent we hold judgement against one pole or the other, we reject part of oneness. Having accepted and allowed all, we are free to choose according to our true nature and are no longer bound to that which we resist.

Like Machiavelli, Gracián (mentioned above in post #63 (http://jandeane81.com/threads/10481-The-Avalon-Files?p=841964189&viewfull=1#post841964189)), and Don Juan, the author Ivan Throne accepts and embraces both poles of reality and chooses that which suits his nature. His view of the dark triad illuminates the polarities involved and appears in graphical form in his book

According to Ivan Throne, Machiavellianism, Narcissism, and Psychopathy have been associated with the negative poles (degradation, delusion, destruction) of three abstract traits that also each have a positive pole (revelation, manifestation, direction). His life has been one of hardship and adversity, but instead of feeling sorry for himself and giving up, he chose survival, using any and every resource available. He learned that even darkness could be turned to his advantage, by discovering the higher principle and the corresponding light associated with it.

Ivan Throne was recently interviewed:

Michael System, another view of human nature emphasizes polarities as a means of self-awareness and self-development:

I happen to be a scholar in the observation mode with a goal of growth. Being focused on growth, this chart has been very helpful in identifying dark (negative) issues in my personality, seeing them as a potential strengths, and working to transform them to the positive pole. For example, I have a stoic attitude which most of my life expressed as the negative pole resignation ("What's the use?"). At last I am approaching tranquility ("All is well.")

Fred said


...........you are bringing up. Shadow work, dark nights of the soul, finding one's way through Chapel Perilous. Invaluable experience, honing in on that sweet spot right smack in the middle of the two opposing poles.

Don Juan thought the warrior extremely fortunate to encounter a petty tyrant:

Thanks Myst!!!!!!!
You are bringing some new material to ME in my quest to understand MYSELF and yes, how to navigate chapel perilous because that is where we seem to be (lots and lots of us).


"Chapel Perilous" is an occult term referring to a psychological state in which an individual cannot be certain whether they have been aided or hindered by some force outside the realm of the natural world, or whether what appeared to be supernatural interference was a product of their own vivid imagination.

From the (Tek) Gnostic perspective, to enter Chapel Perilous is to come to the shocking realization that "the Gods are Crazy." This is the epiphanous moment when one realizes the ambivalent... or worse... malevolent nature of what the Gnostics identified as the Demiurge. This deranged entity is not to be confused with the ultimate, transcendent creative power, which cannot be named.

Chapel Perilous was used as a Discordian term by the late writer and philosopher Robert Anton Wilson in his 1977 book Cosmic Trigger. According to Wilson, being in this state leads the subject to become either stone paranoid or an agnostic... there is no third way.

The concept of "Chapel Perilous" was used by Antero Alli, in his 1986 book, Angel Tech: A Modern Shaman's Guide to Reality Selection which is based on Timothy Leary's Eight-circuit model of consciousness. In Alli's book, Chapel Perilous is regarded as a rite of passage, when moving between the four lower circuits of consciousness to the higher circuits. In Chapel Perilous, the integrity of the lower circuits is tested in preparation for activation of the higher circuits.

The term Chapel Perilous first appeared in Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur (1485) as the setting for an adventure in which sorceress Hellawes unsuccessfully attempts to seduce Sir Lancelot. T. S. Eliot used it symbolically in "The Waste Land" (1922).

- Wikipedia

Students of the Grail romances will remember that in many of the versions the hero... sometimes it is a heroine... meets with a strange and terrifying adventure in a mysterious Chapel, an adventure which, we are given to understand, is fraught with extreme peril to life. The details vary: sometimes there is a Dead Body laid on the altar; sometimes a Black Hand extinguishes the tapers; there are strange and threatening voices, and the general impression is that this is an adventure in which supernatural, and evil, forces are engaged.

- Jessie L Weston

The history of the term is interesting. Traditionally, the Chapel Perilous or Grail Castle has been the ultimate destination for knights questing after the Holy Grail. For most people of my generation, this brings up an image out (those great tekgnostic saints) of Monty Python, as well it should. The story has been around for a long time, though. The mystical experiences within this chapel are the climax of many an Arthurian adventure story. Those who entered were typically subjected to a rigorous battery of challenges, some of which seem to be training exercises of sorts, while others are ultimate tests of purity, conviction, and understanding.

Dangerous traps are to be found there, often tailored to force a confrontation with an individual knight’s personal weaknesses. Those who failed would not be allowed to access the Grail and might even be killed or driven mad in the attempt. On the other hand, a candidate who proved worthy might hope to be granted great power and priceless treasures.

The idea of Chapel Perilous as it is commonly used in psychedelic parlance comes from Robert Anton Wilson’s countercultural classic The Cosmic Trigger. Uncle Bob defines Chapel Perilous as: "A stage in the magickal quest in which your maps turned out to be totally inadequate for the territory and you’re completely lost." He has quite a lot more to say on the topic, having spent a good deal of time there himself:

"Chapel Perilous, like the mysterious entity called ‘I,’ cannot be located in the space-time continuum; it is weightless, odorless, tasteless and undetectable by ordinary instruments. Indeed, like the Ego, it is even possible to deny that it is there. And yet, even more like the Ego, once you are inside it, there doesn’t seem to be any way to ever get out again, until you suddenly discover that it has been brought into existence by thought and does not exist outside thought. Everything you fear is waiting with slavering jaws in Chapel Perilous, but if you are armed with the wand of intuition, the cup of sympathy, the sword of reason and the pentacle of valor, you will find there (the legends say) the Medicine of Metals, the Elixir of Life, the Philosopher’s Stone, True Wisdom and Perfect Happiness.

That's what the legends always say, and the language of myth is poetically precise. For instance, if you go into that realm without the sword of reason, you will lose your mind, but at the same time, if you take only the sword of reason without the cup of sympathy, you will lose your heart. Even more remarkably, if you approach without the wand of intuition, you can stand at the door for decades never realizing you have arrived. You might think you are just waiting for a bus, or wandering from room to room looking for your cigarettes, watching a TV show, or reading a cryptic and ambiguous book. Chapel Perilous is tricky that way."http://www.tekgnostics.com/CHAPEL.HTM

Much of what I think now has to to with the idea that we are in a simulation experience learning from our behavior.
It's engagement that gives opportunity to evolve.
People reference the poles of love and fear. It is likened for me to "expression and touching" over "repression and withdrawal of touch".
That beings associate abuse with love implies to me that the pole is not as much about "how" expression and touching are done but the willingness to engage over shut down that "matters" most.

Guilt and shame are self referencing "power off" isolators.

I think we have every possible possibility within us in the roles we act out.
That they are ROLES (states) means to me they do not determine us but that we choose to act in certain ways.
I have developed my own concept that empathy (putting ourselves fully in the place of others) is what "saves" us from acting out the dark triad. Empathy is shut down when overwhelming trauma happens I think and beings go into withdrawal, repression and "death". I think about how narcissists have a "false self". If you cannot express your "deeper self", you have that added layer of padding?
Don't we hear some mystics talk about how truth (the deep structure) is discovered as we simplify and take off the false layers?

I think we are here to uncover and that needs to be allowing and accepting and LOVING of the aspects of self we have been taught to shun? This lets us open up and like the sun hitting dank corners never touched, the dank recessed corners of us are aired and lightened by love.
Example: being punished for anger as a child makes rage that builds up. Allowing anger lets it have its place and it is "enlightened".

In this Grand Simulation I am not bothered at all by the idea that there are multiple "trials".
We move through all the possible states to have comprehension of a whole via PERCEPTION in EXPERIENCE.
IMO that is our desire an we are not victims here but wayfarers.

[EL_O_EL]

After reading all this info, from people I respect in this here microcosm of the greater "awakened" community, I have a better understanding of why I felt so uncomfortable at PA, and didn't stick around very long. As a member of many different forums for my various passions; Beagles/Surfing/Sailing/ET-Enlightenment-Awakening-Enchilada, I immediately found Project Avalon to be a very entropic and divided Platform. Not only did I not feel welcome, but I also didn't feel "good Enough" to even speak up or out, or make any contribution whatsoever. Oh well, for whatever that is worth, it is what it is. However, one thing that I heard mentioned, here in this thread, is how Bill Ryan is supported by the P.A. forum. Curiosity is getting the best of me, and I have to ask, how much $ could Project Avalon potentially bring in, and in return for what? (memberships/readings/secret decoder ring?) Its something I've always wondered, and seeing as though there are evidently a few "Insiders" here, perhaps a rough estimate will be forthcoming. Really I'm just curious as to how a Forum King can behave, as he does, and still rely on it for monthly financial sustenance (which leads me to ask "how much are we talking?). If its deemed "too personal", then please forgive me! Aloha & Mahalo!

:abduct::abduct::::meditating::meditating::fire::f ire::garden:

[donk]

Whatever Project Avalon originally was, it has become a BR created reality. Anyone who (literally) buys into is responsible, and Bill should not be judged for that.

From what I understand, at least as of a year or so ago he was not taking in more than enough to be beyond an (Ecuadorean) comfort level...if the person he lived with is to be believed. The fact that he openly publicly used his domain to try to get his "stolen" gold back (that they apparently illegally smuggled into Ecuador together) seems to support that idea.

What those (public) actions (revealing the bit of his private life) also did...was expose other aspects of the man that weren't apparent in the carefully crafted character he created that you see as the "king of that castle"...which is his right, if not his intention.

One thing I got out of my participation there was to learn better discernment of information, and when I'm applying to the information he provided--in that appeal to his audience where he was impugning the wife* that allegedly wronged him...I personally wouldn't think he's got a pot to p!ss in.

But even if he is hoarding meeeeee-lions from donations from those that believe in the character on the Project he created, could that really tell you anything meaningful about this industry? People love to point at people making money off anything around here as somehow wrong...while we all exist in a world where we gotta have money to eat (or power the devices that allow us to read this).

At any rate...at least HE seems to think it is "too personal" (or irrelevent), or he would openly and honestly reveal as many details about his financial situation as he did about his sentimentally valuable gold. Hey...the POTUS is doing the same thing, his finances are actually irrevelant, just knowing how rich he wants us to think he is what matters.

Very few in actual reality are completely open about their finances. It is an aspect of civlized life where descretion/deception is a VALUE...so it is difficult discern anything meaningful about anyone else's motives about their honesty about finances.

It's not his (or Tump's or my) fault we as a society accept that it is not the norm to disclose "operations cost this, we took in this"....at least here in America, most feel that "is nobody's business but their own". Most people will argue it is our right. So it goes...

But what broke my heart about Bill and PA....I thought he (and it) was better than that, that he created something encouraging others to be better than that. Well...it was better to me than most things i was looking at, during that time. Through my participation there, I learned that no matter what we feel about manipulators, putting responsibility for the victimization solely on them is the problem that will lock us in an endless cycle. It's the "victims" that need to take responsibility, enablers need to see outside of their reality box....cuz the decievers are gonna deceive no matter how wrong anyone tells them it is.

But what I found is that he doesn't want an outsider to see clearly anything about him or his realm that he does not create himself. Believers ain't gonna stop giving him (at least) their energy until they stop lying to themselves. I spent a lot of time and emotional energy trying to steer the Project as whole (and so more often than not, HIM directly) toward self reflection with the ultimate goal of total transparency...but it turned out PA wasn't quite as "extra-ordinary" as I thought (or my idea that is what we should be doing isn't as good as I like to think)...he showed no interest (except defensiveness)...and very few (if any) of the membership seemed to want to get on board.

I guess I could take this as feedback that it is wrong to want to try for that "sterling integrity"? I certainly took it that it wasn't appreciated there, nonetheless....

His creation is a special one, where lots of great people contribute lots of great things and probably lots more than that get a lot out of it...for ZERO cash, if they choose. I was trying to be an example of what i hoped it could be, openly sharing and analyzing the aspects of myself I felt I was not able to do elsewhere or as easily with anyone else. I saw (and see) lots of other people doing that too--and like i was...at first...was extremely grateful to Bill for the platform to do so.

To me, any problem with the platform (or Bill himself) has nothing to do with money, that's just a distraction. Whether it's a well-funded operation or a pathetic man begging for crumbs, the amount of money Bill makes to me means nothing, as I think it should to the majority who use it for free.

All I think the money issue should be is a reflection of how far he is willing to go....after all, anyone that has ANY problem or disagreement with him is asked: what are you doing for humanity/to make world a better place?

Apparently his own answer to it is that he provides that platform. My own answer is that I provide a perspective on it...unfortunately for him, it is one that he doesn't like.

I honestly really hope my "contribution to humanity" doesn't harm his income stream (or him in any way), though I hope even more that income isn't his primary motive for providing the platform. In my humble opinion and discernment (which I learned mostly from my experience at PA)....IF he makes enough from it to survive, good for him, but the fact this isn't perfectly unarguably clear for me sorta defeats the some of the stated intentions of what it the project is supposed to be....

Anyways, just my two cents about the money angle...I really like to look at the situation removing it (or at least marginalizing it) from the equation. I think malc could confirm that very low percentage of contributors on a forum contribute actual dollars? Or am I just cheap *******?

*Bill got Christine to go along with him in hiding their marriage from membership for "her protection"...which I find more than insulting to the intelligence of anyone on a site that disusses "conspiracy research"

[Gio]

In all honesty - After the original Project Avalon Forum was closed down for the participating membership - Its so called replacement - the new private PA2.0 should of been renamed for it's true purposeful intent for what it was (and has apparently played out to be) - The Bill Ryan Forum ... :(

[Shadowself]

In all honesty - After the original Project Avalon Forum was closed down for the participating membership - Its so called replacement - the new private PA2.0 should of been renamed for it's reakl purposeful intent what it was (and has apparently played out to be) - The Bill Ryan Forum ... :(

Ahhh yes....I remember those days. censored became the name of the game at the new digs and it seems banning is the hammer.

I remember and was involved in many heated discussions back in the day...I'm sure you remember a few of those Gio...LOL But banning for it?

Well....it seems to be the trend now which is why I rarely join in there anymore and exactly why Lionhawk is no longer there because someone he liked very much got banned for a reason he still questions as bizarre. It upset him so much he's retreated and is now back to building my kitchen....which is actually a good thing! yay!

[Fred Steeves]

There is still no doubt in my mind a reason why when you break up the full forum title, it reads much differently than the usual PA, or just plain Avalon: "The Project - Avalon Forum". A Project indeed... The Project *is* Avalon Forum, same as it's predecessors Project Camelot, and Project Serpo. Projects in which the varying results (us) are studied, and filed away by some very smart people who are deeply into the social engineering/meme producing game. I call them "The Smarts".

I have also seen it referred to as "PA/ULTRA" (I love that one! :D), and being that the MK programs slipped off into the shadows after being partially exposed during the mid 1970's here in the U.S., who the hell knows what the alphabet black programs are actually able to do these days through combinations of psychology, technology, and other such. For example, IMO Ewan Cameron type laboratory settings are no longer necessary.

Isn't this quite the strange alumni to be a part of? One way or another, we managed to find ourselves part of a Project.

But aw hell ma it ain't all bad, personally I wouldn't trade that experience for all the riches in the world. A lot can be gleaned from watching the watchers, and trading field notes amongst fellow misfit toys. Besides, who says that experience ever actually ends? Maybe it's like the Hotel California where you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. As above so below, as below so above.

Who attends Chapel Perilous? Many

Who eventually realizes they are even at the gates of Chapel Perilous? Some

Who transcends Chapel Perilous, once the predicament is realized? A scant few

[Dreamtimer]

Serpo popped up again over there. A video from January of 2016 of Len Kasten at UPARS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3596-Up-At-The-Ranch-And-Beyond/page1011) telling the story of a secret space program from 2005 called Crystal Knight, now known as Project Serpo.

[Fred Steeves]

Serpo popped up again over there. A video from January of 2016 of Len Kasten at UPARS (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?3596-Up-At-The-Ranch-And-Beyond/page1011) telling the story of a secret space program from 2005 called Crystal Knight, now known as Project Serpo.

Yeah well, memes like an astronaut exchange program between the U.S. and planet Serpo will live on in infamy, so long as there are the myriad of Coast To Coast type of shows that make their living from keeping them alive, and gullible listeners to eat it all up with zero follow up research. Popcorn anyone?

In 2006 it was "The Jerry Pippen Show" that gave the story it's big launch, leading up to the 2006 International UFO Congress held in Laughlin, Nevada.
http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_serpo_project.htm

To clarify, the Serpo saga is set back in the 60's, and only becomes public in 2005/2006. This is when Bill is plucked from obscurity, and on his way to becoming an alt media celebrity.

The following is how Bill describes the initial events:


The information began to be released on 2 November 2005 by a retired senior official within the US Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) who calls himself “Anonymous”. Until he chooses to make his name known, this is the way he will be represented here. Anonymous reports that he is not acting individually and is part of a group of six DIA personnel working together as an alliance: three current and three former employees. He is their chief spokesman.

As an addendum, it continues to be my strong hunch that on this list, would be written nearly (if not) every name Project Camelot interviewed back in the day. Ever wonder how a newbie on the scene, finds himself with a wellspring of high level, friendly prospects suddenly ready to tell their tales? Could be dead wrong, but it sure seems to add up. Needless to say, I would love to get me a little peeksy at that list of names. :)


The information is currently being released in installments on a private UFO e-mail list moderated by Victor Martinez. The list contains about a hundred and fifty people, including many extremely well-known names in UFO research and related or leading edge scientific fields. Until permissions are granted, their names will be withheld out of courtesy and to respect confidentiality.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/serpo/index_serpo.htm

This focus is on Bill Ryan because I think this community should have some general idea of it's roots, and because I believe his story reflects on how the alternative media works at large. And beyond...

As above so below, as below so above.

[donk]

Ahhh, "how the alternative media works at large", one of my favorite things to mull over.

The aspect most difficult to wrap our brains around is the emotional charge around the "data". I think in large part because of the similarities it has with "mainstream" thought.

The difference should be very clear: the commanlity in the whole community is that all that participate are challenging the the sacred dogmas of the world we live in. Whether it be the level of technology that exists, the truth in the transmissions of "facts" in the news, whether the earth is sphere or all life evolved from a single cell or all that exists sprang from a singularity point...the tie that binds us is that we question the unquestionable

My stumbling upon the project was in search of information challenging the accept belief (prevailing social dogma) that even if "ED's" (ghosts/demons) exist, we can't know any real information about them. When I found PA, it seemed that it was "safe space" for people who wanted to challenge this belief.

As I dug deeper, learning how to better discernment and research techniques, only in retrospect did it seem so extraordinary that I had found what to me was the most extensive and comprehensive collection of "data" from individuals documenting anomalous experiences with ETs...and the thoughts and theories that connected ET phenomona with ED stuff.

Camelot was cutting edge in it's time, and is still compelling enough to endure. That's where looking deeper ran me afoul of the community I really still actually believe in. I think it's possible to create something that Avalonians tell us they're space is, if the most vocal supporters could be more responsible in challenging and discussing things with the detractors...without the prevailing set of acceptable beliefs of the leader being the final word.

That's an emotional maturity that few exhibit, especially when met resistance. The beauty of the forum format for me was the ability to directly contact the people (or people close to the people) directly involved. It seemed to allow for more due diligence and for more information and light to be revealed about the sides of things the rest of us don't often (if ever) get to see.

The fact that Bill seemed resistant to certain avenues, lines of questioning, and especially in the exposing certain areas of his own beliefs and particular details of his relationships with the people involved lead me to the sort of implications you point out Fred, that he may be some sort of operative or PA may have been designed (or captured) with the intent of manipulating the audience.

Watching what I could of how he behaved though, I lean these days toward the suspicion that he's just a fallible human like us, just above average at appearing to be better than the main stream status quo...perhaps not even self aware enough to see how on a subtle level he contributes to the muddying of the waters his Project is supposed to be trying to clear up.

Like all of the mini-virtual-kingdoms to the individuals that have cropped up since, there is the limitations of the prevailing dogma of the leader (and most vocal supporters, fueled by the WRONGNESS of the challengers that is so obvious to the flock). In PA's case, the dogma is the story line Bill is comfortable with. It varies on each situation and individuals, with some where he is completely open to all discussion about....down to the things that he will discuss with individuals (in private).

The broad range gives the appearance of an "open mind"...and about a lot of things he (and PA) really is. There's situations where he gives clear consistent arguments that make a lot of sense, and uncondescendingly allows views that challenge them to be explored. This is the hook, and this is the excuse/justification that to the minds of the followers make it the BEST at what it's doing and therefore able to rationalize how there's no need for growth or self reflection.

To me, "science" is understanding (belief) of the WHAT of how things are, where "spirituality" is our belief (understanding) of WHY things are. I think that's why Kerry and Bill made for such a great team (if you allow for the possibility it wasn't an op from the gate). And why PA can seem so "unbalanced" (at least to me).

I think most interested in anything the platform can do, want as much "scientific method approved" hard data (the WHAT) as can be provided by the participants, the format is PERFECT for that. Conversely, it is just as effective at allowing for discussion of theories and speculation and discussion (the WHY). The problem comes in on the participants' emotional attachment to their ideas, and the intentional and unintentional communication techniques that come not from an open place of trying to learn and understand, but from (more often than not) the defense of each individuals' dogmatic beliefs, the emotional immaturity (or beaten-into-us program) of BEING RIGHT being more important to us than entertaining an idea that challenge our core reality.

Bill and the mods did a pretty good job while I was there in moderating the super negatively charged attacks and most immature of communication techniques. This attracts lots of people with fear of that being turned on them. People like to believe POLITE equals maturity. You can't fault them for giving a safe space for the type who respect polite socially acceptable discourse over actual information. This place (and many others) install this in their culture, which works to avoid the annoyances you find in the anarchy of a GLP type situation.

I thought at the time of the end of my time there that the problem was Bill's self-honesty:
-He created a space where "science and spirituality meet", where people are encouraged to expose what they've learned of the "hidden information", yet he actively hides from the public (and his own membership) his deep respect/fear for the most sacred text of the belief system (to be fair he DOES own up to coming from)
-He hid the fact he was married, while his wife was a prominent poster and moderator...UNTIL he choose to accuse her of a crime and use his platform to attack her character
-he shows no interest into delving any deeper into any of his own work or further vetting anyone he "trusts", content with the superficial output they release and speculative discussion that usually goes into loops that very simple personal insights might resolve

For all the good that comes out of it, I personally was just unable to justify any of it...I couldn't just "move on" from these core realities that i felt were EASILY changeable (and forgivable, and a lot of good....even for Bill's ego...would have come out of it), and put a lot of energy into trying to convince Bill of this.

Along the way, I learned my communication style is not exactly effective for most people, and i continue to work on it. I discovered that the true issue lies not in the leaders, but in the followers who's faith and trust keep them in their positions...and that the only solution to this problem is to learn to how to get people to honestly look at WHY they believe what they believe. I learned that the ALTERNATIVE arena makes this especially difficult because most of believe we are doing that just by being here...or by the fact we are challenging the mainstream.

That's where I am now...what I think is super valuable about this realm. It feels like that quote often attributed to Edison, something like:

"5% of the people think, 10% think they think; and the other 85% would rather die than think"

I think the most dangerous are that middle group...and i don't exclude myself from it. I continually work hard to try to make sure I'm not settling in there, but I am never arrogant enough to include myself completely in that first group...cuz I think once you do...you automatically fall back down to that middle one.

I could be wrong about everything...I don't KNOW a damn thing, but I think if we could start accepting that instead of prevailing condition of taking it personally to be deceived (or WRONG about something), we could get somewhere. I see hope in this in a lot of the strangest places, particularly the mainstream and among the type of people that you'd think would dismissive of "altenative" thought.

We are all in this together, maybe we just need to find ways to convince our leaders of that? Cuz i sure don't seem like we're at an emotional maturity level as a species to live without them....so maybe the first step is trying to find ways to hold them accountable, make them responsible, help them understand that hiding things from us protects NO ONE, not even themselves

[KINGSTON FRIZZ]

Wow. This brings bad bad memories LOL! I remember being kicked off Avalon by (Mr obnoxious) Paul about 3 days before Aragorn was kicked off. We were in contact with each other and Corey. Do you remember Aragorn? Back then I was know as EYES WIDE OPEN. I am still on Avalon under another name but have not posted there for a very long. They dont have a clue.

[Aragorn]

Wow. This brings bad bad memories LOL! I remember being kicked off Avalon by (Mr obnoxious) Paul about 3 days before Aragorn was kicked off. We were in contact with each other and Corey. Do you remember Aragorn?

Of course. ;)


Back then I was know as EYES WIDE OPEN. I am still on Avalon under another name but have not posted there for a very long. They dont have a clue.

But I do... :p : Sherlock:

[Dreamtimer]

Wow. This brings bad bad memories LOL! I remember being kicked off Avalon by (Mr obnoxious) Paul about 3 days before Aragorn was kicked off. We were in contact with each other and Corey. Do you remember Aragorn? Back then I was know as EYES WIDE OPEN. I am still on Avalon under another name but have not posted there for a very long. They dont have a clue.

Feel free to share tidbits. But don't spend too much time wading through the muck. I managed to avoid the drama of membership over there though I did follow Corey here. I left his drama behind and stayed here. I've never felt drawn to join another forum. At least, not yet.

[Aragorn]

Wow. This brings bad bad memories LOL! I remember being kicked off Avalon by (Mr obnoxious) Paul about 3 days before Aragorn was kicked off. We were in contact with each other and Corey. Do you remember Aragorn? Back then I was know as EYES WIDE OPEN. I am still on Avalon under another name but have not posted there for a very long. They dont have a clue.

Feel free to share tidbits. But don't spend too much time wading through the muck. I managed to avoid the drama of membership over there though I did follow Corey here. I left his drama behind and stayed here. I've never felt drawn to join another forum. At least, not yet.

As I recall, there was some situation — it may have been related to Christine leaving Bill Ryan, or to the "stepping down" of Christine, Claudia and Hazel from the Avalon mod team, but I don't remember the exact details — and EYES WIDE OPEN then posted something along the lines of: "Maybe this here has something to do with it?", with a link pointing at a post at Corey's blog where Corey was hanging Bill Ryan's dirty laundry out to dry.

Bill Ryan then contacted EYES WIDE OPEN to tell him they had soft-deleted his post, and they wanted him to "rewrite it". EYES WIDE OPEN refused — as I recall, he told Bill something along the lines of "Corey has already proved himself trustworthy to me, which is more than I can say of you." — and was then subsequently banned for "working against the forum".



:popc:

[KINGSTON FRIZZ]

Spot on Aragorn! Good memory! I has also been previously banned about a year earlier because of my views of Judy Wood and 9/11 which Paul could not argue against so banned me under the guise of not following forum rules.

[donk]

Yeah, it's a shame. The videos they did with the early Project Camelot was cutting edge at the time, serving a niche that needed to be filled. Whether the interviewees were "for real" or not, they brought up issues close to people who didn't have anyone else to relate to.

I was too late to the party to experience the early forum, coming in post-Charles, when Inelia Benz had just left. It seems that if he had kept (followed) up with the people they got on camera, studied their stories and situations with more depth, it could have been a substantive resource with more solid of backing.

As it were, it became a solid place to share personal experiences, with the moderation successfully keeping the space "safe" for most people...a lot of whom were uncomfortable to share elsewhere. The fact that they left their investigations* to such a surface level makes it feel in retrospect more like a "magazine" than serious research...an image further crystallized with the celebrity-creation train that followed. And for me, Bill's reluctance to share anything substantive about his relationships with all but a handful of the celeb experiencers, and so few of his colleagues in the "alt-media" personality sphere, and maybe his own wife/life makes it feel like he never was able to put the research (or service to others) in front of his ego.

And so my speculation is that instead of creating a platform for a true "alternative", it became a model for other ego-driven folks to try to create their own cult to their personalities and/or quasi-celebritydom. Instead of a new model, it was just new "data/information" following the same old media pattern. And the thing that chaps so many @sses is that sterling integrity personality he uses the platform to create, does not match up with the personality you discover dealing with him behind the scenes.

Which leads the conspiracy minded to speculate that it was all an op from the gate, or that at some point he/PA was captured. I was definitely of that mind, these days though I wonder how much really that matters. He's been pretty marginalized in the UFO-ology field and many in the community see the cultish characteristics of his echo chamber. The only minds he's manipulating these days (if he ever was actually trying or ordered to do so) is the peeps that learn discernment anyway...rather than any kind of threat, I see PA as a training ground these days. Just my opinion, of course

*to be fair, I think Kerry may have actually attempted to be more intellectually rigorous and do some of the stuff I feel she shoulda been, but what I found if her solo work seemed too non-objective, from my infrequent viewing it seemed she was (is) trying to validate her view of reality as much (or more) than tracking down data

[ArtyCarl]

Hi everyone, my first post here after joining yesterday.

I was at Avalon and before that Camelot, Open Minds, ATS but more recently over at Nexus and to be honest only found you by accident.

I was never involved in the Charles furore, having found the whole thing a massive distraction.

One look at the Avalon forum today shows it as a mere shadow of its former self but there were some great thinkers there and when the whole Ground Crew idea was being formulated I genuinely thought we could make a difference.

I always believed that, at heart, Bill Ryan was a good person, brought down by the very human frailties of ego and greed.

I took time away from it all but in recent months I have felt an undercurrent of something unsettling and have been drawn back to be among like minded people.

I look forward to being a contributing member here.

[Aragorn]

Hi everyone, my first post here after joining yesterday.

I was at Avalon and before that Camelot, Open Minds, ATS but more recently over at Nexus and to be honest only found you by accident.

I was never involved in the Charles furore, having found the whole thing a massive distraction.

One look at the Avalon forum today shows it as a mere shadow of its former self but there were some great thinkers there and when the whole Ground Crew idea was being formulated I genuinely thought we could make a difference.

I always believed that, at heart, Bill Ryan was a good person, brought down by the very human frailties of ego and greed.

I took time away from it all but in recent months I have felt an undercurrent of something unsettling and have been drawn back to be among like minded people.

I look forward to being a contributing member here.

(welcome) at The One Truth, ArtyCarl. ;) :chrs:



http://users.telenet.be/stryder/The_One_Truth/Miscellaneous/welcome.jpeg

[Elen]

Welcome...we call ourselves "The Shire" :fire:

[Fred Steeves]

Hi everyone, my first post here after joining yesterday.

I was at Avalon and before that Camelot, Open Minds, ATS but more recently over at Nexus and to be honest only found you by accident.

I always believed that, at heart, Bill Ryan was a good person, brought down by the very human frailties of ego and greed.

Hey Carl pleasant surprise, I'll bet you clicked the button on the Nexus main forum page that shows what sites refer to there every day.

I didn't know you started out at ATS, that's where the subject of this thread had it's Genesis back in late '05. You by chance weren't there then were you? That's where/when Bill burst onto the Alt Media out of nowhere with the whole Serpo circus, and IIRC it was for quite some time the longest running thread in ATS history. 248 pages if I'm not mistaken. Today he mocks that site as nothing but alphabet soup disinfo (a bit of pot calling kettle black...), but back then he was more than happy to let it be his launch pad to Alt Media fame.

It's a fascinating look back, and rather reminiscent of the debut of yet another "deep insider" that would be coming down the pike a few years later, a super deep insider named "Charles". Like the old saying goes, those that don't learn their history are bound to repeat it...
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread185069/pg1


I was never involved in the Charles furore, having found the whole thing a massive distraction.

Oh man, I was such a wet behind the ears newb then and fell for that s**t hook line and sinker. I wonder why that whole archive has long since been hidden away, even from members?


One look at the Avalon forum today shows it as a mere shadow of its former self but there were some great thinkers there and when the whole Ground Crew idea was being formulated I genuinely thought we could make a difference.

A former Project member came to visit here just about a year ago now, and one observation he noted during our many conversations I thought was quite astute. After the banning of 9eagle9 with her "Their Minds" topic of CONSIDERABLE discussion (2012/13 was it?), the whole quality of conversation was never to recover. And then we both agreed that the quality of intelligent discussion didn't just fail to recover, it was never *allowed* to recover.


and when the whole Ground Crew idea was being formulated I genuinely thought we could make a difference.

Ah the ground crew, those were the days my friend. We lost our starry notions along the way, didn't we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3un5f6qLi_k


I took time away from it all but in recent months I have felt an undercurrent of something unsettling and have been drawn back to be among like minded people.

Interesting, I feel that unsettling undercurrent as well.

[ArtyCarl]

Hi Fred, you are spot on, I followed you down the rabbit hole and this is where I came up.

I was not a regular visitor to ATS back in those days but that all changed when the Serpo material was posted and I lapped it up at the time.

I read every post several times and there was a fair amount of content...and I did notice that the content changed grammatically over time leading me to think that it was being added to or changed possibly before Bill posted it.

I still like to believe that the story had some truth to it.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is fascinating looking back at it...and also fascinating seeing so many familiar names in the forums.

It does make me wonder if we are all tuning in to something we cannot quite understand....yet.

[Dreamtimer]

Unsettling. That's a good word. That's probably what brought me into these waters. It's unsettling being unable to have rational, informed conversations with people who are supposed to be just that. And it's clear that what we get for news is mush.

I never joined PA but it did help me find this place.

Welcome ArtyCarl.

[Gio]

hmm ...


http://projectavalon.net/lang/fr/Bill%20&%20Kerry.jpg

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy

You Didn't Have To Be So Nice



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xulQmTgOw5U

[Margueritebee]

Looking back it seems like there was a kind of social engineering going on, still is I suppose. ATS best part was an interview with John Lear and how he gave Batman the clap. Funniest interview I've ever heard.

[Biff]

hmm ...


http://projectavalon.net/lang/fr/Bill%20&%20Kerry.jpg

Bill Ryan and Kerry Cassidy

You Didn't Have To Be So Nice



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xulQmTgOw5U

Nice Masonic handshake there, Bill and Kerry. :p

[Fred Steeves]

http://projectavalon.net/lang/fr/Bill%20&%20Kerry.jpg


Nice Masonic handshake there, Bill and Kerry. :p

Come on man...

[Gio]

http://projectavalon.net/lang/fr/Bill%20&%20Kerry.jpg


Always amazed in what forum members take from my post ...

It was the lyrics to the LS song that reflects my sentiments.

These two were (are) anything but nice.

[Aragorn]

http://projectavalon.net/lang/fr/Bill%20&%20Kerry.jpg

[...]

These two were (are) anything but nice.

Birds of a feather... ;)

By the way, it's Bill's birthday today, just in case anyone would care to send him a cactus... :p :ttr:

[Gio]

Personally it's time for me to put Bill and his forum in the rear view mirror

Enough said.

http://www.kinokostore.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Copy-of-IMG_1262-e1442916532882.jpg

[Dreamtimer]

Mr. Steele is now a PA member as posted by none other than Bill himself. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?96359-Robert-David-Steele-has-become-an-Avalon-Member)

[Aragorn]

Looks like Project Avalon has just poised itself (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?96359-Robert-David-Steele-has-become-an-Avalon-Member) for yet another round of celebrity-making and hero worship. After all, Simon Sez has already been definitively out of the picture as Project Avalon's long-term star product for quite a while, and so the hungry church members have been yearning for a new "flavor of the month" ever since. :rolleyes:



Dear Friends,

This thread was started last month:


CIA Good Guy Robert David Steele (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?95745-CIA-Good-Guy-Robert-David-Steele)

And a few days ago, we had this:


Former CIA Robert David Steele: incredible revealing interview (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?96188-Former-CIA-Robert-David-Steele-incredible-revealing-interview)

Well, Robert has now joined the forum. His username is RobertDavidSteele.

We extend the warmest welcome to him. He's here to answer questions, if he can. He's not a member of any other forum.

As luck would have it, I'm going to be away on a road trip the next four days. My personal request to you all is: please support the moderators in taking good care of him.

If you disagree with anything he has to say, of course that's all fine. We merely ask for courtesy and respect. He'll be used to good questions, and the opportunity for us all here is to (a) conduct ourselves in the highest quality way, however the conversation goes, and (b) maybe, to learn some stuff.

Welcome, Robert — on behalf of the Avalon community, we very much appreciate your presence here.


Note that he's telling his members to "please support the moderators in taking good care of him", because this is quite obviously a VIP, which just as obviously then entitles him to a special level of care that the other (and lesser) Project Avalon forum members aren't eligible for.


:fpalm:

[Fred Steeves]

As Mr. Spock would say: "Fascinating Captain..."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Y73sPHKxw

[modwiz]

Mr. Steele is now a PA member as posted by none other than Bill himself. (http://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?96359-Robert-David-Steele-has-become-an-Avalon-Member)

I have been getting some strange, not so good, "vibes" from Steele based on what he says and the inflections. If he mixes it up with the forum, it should be interesting.

[donk]

Is this guy already in the mainstream? I feel like I saw a FB post about it, which I scrolled past so may have been something different.

It's good for Avalon that he came on his own, without a Corey style setup--and even better he has a 4 day window to let develop without his input...definitely be interesting to see how it unfolds

[modwiz]

I am reading all the smoochy welcomes to David Steele at PA. Many are calling him Mr. Steele. If they had watched his videos they would know he doesn't like to be called Mr. Steele but, David. He says Mr. Steele is his dad. I wonder if he will puke and run before he even engages.:ttr:

[modwiz]

Here is David Steele's first post at PA.


Folks, Barry asked me to join and I am honored to have been accepted. The petition is the tip of the iceberg, I have 30 years work visible at http://robertdavidsteele.com, the blog I manage is http://phibetaiota.net, and my brief presidential bid for the Reform Party (I am a registered Libertarian but consider the Libertarian leadership to be absolutist idiots and all parties including the Libertarian Party to be toxic) is at http://bigbatusa.org. I have registered but not activated alt-gov.org and am talking with Cynthia McKinney among others about launching a nation-wide campaign for electoral reform in time to put a swing vote into Congressi in 2018, and then running as a coalition team of Independents in 2020. Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Ellen Brown, Ralph Nader, Jesse Ventura -- there is a place for everyone who believes as I do that there is nothing wrong with America the Beautiful that cannot be fixed, and fixed quick, by restoring INTEGRITY to our electoral process and thus to our government, economy, and society.

This link shows the vanishing votes at the petition -- we have 600 showing now I am pretty sure 3,000 have been cast -- and provides some references. In 30 minutes I am on a show that got 186,000 views in 5 days when I first appeared, we are going to try to get 100,000 votes cast between now and Wednesday. Here is the bottom line: the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Deep State is our common enemy, and Donald Trump for all his flaws is our legitimate president and has the power to mobilize us all to achieve this victory. Steve Bannon is fighting me, I am told but may finally be opening up to the possibility that I know stuff he does not. Trump is an accidental and fringe president (27% voted for him) and he needs my ideas in the Memorandum for the President if he is to survive and then succeed. The petition is a last ditch attempt to get him to "take a meeting."

Here is a list that provides a graphic of the vanishing votes; a direct link to the petition, and below the folk, several key references.

http://phibetaiota.net/2017/02/white...for-unity-act/

It would be way cool if 100 of you could agree to vote at a given time, and then see if your 100 votes register.

I will try to visit regularly but I am swamped. Happy to answer questions. Feel free to email me directly at robert.david.steele.vivas@gmail.com with a question and then port my answer back here. My time is stretched very thin right now, and I leave for Norway on the 14th. We have until the 12th to help Donald Trump awaken to the possibilities.

[sandy]

CIA Cronies?? me thinks...just can't let the concept of power go and get on with living life without authority of some kind in the mix

[Fred Steeves]

Below is the White House petition. In all honesty I found it oddly worded, low on information as to what it's actual aims are, and overall just not very professionally written with intent of sitting on a President's desk one day. I think many right here on this little forum could have done much better, been much more succinct.

Aside from that I got to wondering if Ron Paul even knows he's included in a WH petition, so I emailed his "Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity" to see if we can find out. Either way, the answer would tell us a lot.


Donald Trump is both an accidental president, and a fringe president (elected by 27%). He is in grave danger – unlike Barack Obama (elected by 26%), Donald Trump is under attack from the Deep State.

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Our common enemy, across America, is the Deep State.

A violent American Spring is coming, the hundreds of millions of dollars being spent to mobilize protesters who will replicate the violent misbehaviour at Berkeley, across the land.

Please meet with Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, Cynthia McKinney, and Robert Steele as soon as possible.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/memo4trump-100-not-27-unity-act-against-deep-state-now

[Shadowself]

Below is the White House petition. In all honesty I found it oddly worded, low on information as to what it's actual aims are, and overall just not very professionally written with intent of sitting on a President's desk one day. I think many right here on this little forum could have done much better, been much more succinct.

Aside from that I got to wondering if Ron Paul even knows he's included in a WH petition, so I emailed his "Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity" to see if we can find out. Either way, the answer would tell us a lot.


https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/memo4trump-100-not-27-unity-act-against-deep-state-now

I doubt very much that Ron Paul knows about this...he is not a Trump supporter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24y0i9T3hFk

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2017/february/27/on-military-and-spending-it-s-trump-versus-trump/

[Dreamtimer]

Jeez. Mr. Paul totally just said what I was thinking. I tried to talk to my friends about Trump's own words describing his dealings with insiders and they just kept saying, "I believe he's an outsider." It's mostly like faith.

[Fred Steeves]

I doubt very much that Ron Paul knows about this...he is not a Trump supporter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24y0i9T3hFk

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2017/february/27/on-military-and-spending-it-s-trump-versus-trump/

I already doubted that very much myself, and after seeing this one minute whallop I'd be close to betting the farm on it. It would sure be nice to get some sort of official response though. If Ron Paul is unaware of his involvement in this White House petition (much less Ventura and the others), then Steele has some serious splainin to do in my opinion.

Now here's the thing, and this takes us right square back to my original intent for this thread. (Y'all didn't think I could do it did ya! LoL). This thread was never meant to be another BR lashing or bitch fest, it was meant to point out historically how overwhelmingly we tend to keep making the same mistakes over and over, and follow each new sensation without question, zero vetting. Whether in the macro or the micro, or the above or below

The Avalon Files and Trump Era thread are now somewhat interchangeable in this regard. Just as the latest crop of Avalonians anxiously sits at Robert Steele's feet for their next softly spoken magic spell, so the faithful do for The Don. Again, as above so below. But in the end, it's round and round we go..

[Dreamtimer]

Now here's the thing, and this takes us right square back to my original intent for this thread. (Y'all didn't think I could do it did ya! LoL). This thread was never meant to be another BR lashing or bitch fest, it was meant to point out historically how overwhelmingly we tend to keep making the same mistakes over and over, and follow each new sensation without question, zero vetting. Whether in the macro or the micro, or the above or below

The Avalon Files and Trump Era thread are now somewhat interchangeable in this regard. Just as the latest crop of Avalonians anxiously sits at Robert Steele's feet for their next softly spoken magic spell, so the faithful do for The Don. Again, as above so below. But in the end, it's round and round we go..

If enough people fall under the spell (https://www.facebook.com/joel.tooley/posts/10155350764828888) we could have some real painful trouble here at home.

[donk]

They mostly seem to love Trump over there

The dude isn't sure whether foreigners are allowed to sign his petition

Which solidifies my belief: petitions are less meaningful than voting. Pathetic delusions of empowerment in an arena you don't REALLY get to participate in

Ron Paul's org probably saw "petition" in your query and laughed and laughed

[WantDisclosure]

. . . the Blue Birds . . .
I’m new here.

Is there someone who can refer me to another thread that will bring me up to speed on what the consensus at The One Truth is about likely species thought to exist in the universe (multiverse?)?

Or, is there no interest in that topic here?


Kerry Cassidy shows clear signs of Asperger syndrome and attention deficit disorder, as well as of psychopathy and narcissism.
Please back up your opinion with one example of each.

I would appreciate links if you have them.


It's a strong hunch of mine that there was never much in the way of building up contacts, rather that the interviewees/contacts from Project Camelot were already lined up at the door when the dynamic duo got together (or was it more like an arranged marriage?)
Do you have any specific events in the timeline to point to that would explain your hunch?


. . . the stench from Serpo's waning credibility . . .
Is it your opinion that there is no planet Serpo and that there was no exchange program?

[Aragorn]

. . . the Blue Birds . . .

I’m new here.

Is there someone who can refer me to another thread that will bring me up to speed on what the consensus at The One Truth is about likely species thought to exist in the universe (multiverse?)?

Or, is there no interest in that topic here?

As a forum, The One Truth does not assume any official position on the existence of said species. We trust our members to practise discernment, and we will never tell them what to take for true and what not, unless there is clear evidence of an obvious deception.

That said, the general consensus among our members is that it is very unlikely for that species to exist as described by Corey Goode. That is not to say that no avian humanoids would exist, but rather that Corey's depiction of them would be misinformation.

On a personal note, as someone who was friends with Corey for quite some time and who has seen him deteriorate into fully-blown paranoid delusion, it is my opinion that Corey's mind has been messed with to such a degree that he cannot tell reality from fantasy anymore. I have in the past also known Corey to involuntarily swap people's names around. For instance, he would be talking of a person "A" but he would be calling them "B" or "C".

The symptoms of Corey's behavior are very reminiscent of schizophrenia, but that is not what he's afflicted with. As Christine Anderson has so eloquently described it over at Earth Empaths, Corey is afflicted with PTSD ("post-traumatic stress disorder"), which has many of the same symptoms as schizophrenia, including delusions, hallucinations and extreme paranoia.

Corey's badly abused mind — he's a MILAB — also makes him highly suggestible, and he is being led in that by David Wilcock, who himself would like to believe that the entities Corey speaks of are the Ra collective from The Law Of One. Wilcock is obsessed with the Ra material and likes believing that he would be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, who allegedly channeled the Ra entity in the 1960s.



Kerry Cassidy shows clear signs of Asperger syndrome and attention deficit disorder, as well as of psychopathy and narcissism.

Please back up your opinion with one example of each.

I would appreciate links if you have them.

All I have for backing up said claims are my experience in and knowledge of psychiatry, psychology and neurology — I come from a paramedical background training and I myself am a high-functioning autistic adult — as well as observations regarding Kerry's behavior (and that of others).

But I can cite a few examples, yes:


Kerry Cassidy will never reply to an e-mail sent to her — not even an e-mail in which she is being offered additional and/or correcting information regarding something she herself has published — unless it contains certain keywords that she personally has the hots for, such as "Annunaki", "Project Looking Glass", "Wingmakers", "antigravity" et al. If you throw any of those at her, then you'll have her undivided attention, and then you can start leading her around the mulberry bush, because she has no sense of discernment whatsoever. At least 80% of what she has published since her split-up from Bill Ryan is pure garbage. (Not that Bill Ryan is all that much better, but at least he has some sense of discernment.)


Kerry has absolutely no sense of humor. She doesn't understand when humor is being used, and she has never made a single quip or pun. If she appears to laugh at a joke, then she's only laughing because that's what everybody else does, or because she thinks she's supposed to laugh at that particular moment.


Kerry exhibits a very high degree of self-importance, as evidenced by the comments she hurled at the security guards when they were corralling the Bilderberg protesters away from where the meeting was held.


When Kerry is talking to someone in a teleconferencing setting over Skype, then her mouse pointer goes all over the place and she needlessly messes with the dimensions and focus of the camera footage of the interlocutors. She cannot sit still, in a manner of speaking. There is also not a shred of human warmth in her conversations with her guests. Her questions are cold and mechanical.


Kerry has a very monotonous voice, which is typical for people with Asperger's, albeit that not all Aspies exhibit this trait. As addressed on another thread still fairly recently — see this post here (https://jandeane81.com/showthread.php/7418-The-One-Truth-s-Lounge-Thread?p=841969324&viewfull=1#post841969324) — Kerry also believes that she can sing, while quite evidently, she can't. She's actually quite horrible at it.




. . . the stench from Serpo's waning credibility . . .
Is it your opinion that there is no planet Serpo and that there was no exchange program?

I'm not going to be putting any words in Fred's mouth, but I think that most of us will by now already long have taken for granted that the Serpo thing was pure mis- and/or disinformation. ;)

[WantDisclosure]

There is also not a shred of human warmth in her conversations with her guests. Her questions are cold and mechanical.
I have watched numerous videos of her interviews of people and listened to numerous radio interviews, and my impression of her is 180 degrees opposite to yours.


Kerry also believes that she can sing, while quite evidently, she can't. She's actually quite horrible at it.

So what?

I can’t think of anything less important than that, in the total scheme of things.

[Aragorn]

There is also not a shred of human warmth in her conversations with her guests. Her questions are cold and mechanical.

I have watched numerous videos of her interviews of people and listened to numerous radio interviews, and my impression of her is 180% opposite to yours.

Just because Kerry smiles or seems interested in what her interviewees have to say — and she is of course interested, which is why she's interviewing them in the first place — doesn't mean that there is any human warmth underneath that smile.

Mind you, I'm not saying that Kerry would be a bad person. I believe that she wants to do The Right Thing™. But she's either way only interested in the information, not in the people, because she lacks the empathy and the social skills, and I'm not the only one to have observed that.

But okay, we can agree to disagree. :flag:



Kerry also believes that she can sing, while quite evidently, she can't. She's actually quite horrible at it.

So what?

I can’t think of anything less important than that, in the total scheme of things.

You were asking for examples which illustrated (among other things) Kerry's affliction with Asperger's Syndrome. Kerry's lack of musicality — of which she is obviously not aware — was such an example.

The post on "The One Truth's Lounge Thread" to which I linked in my earlier reply to you also illustrates this lack of musicality in my brother's ex-wife, who in spite of her lack of musicality, did play a musical instrument by rote matching the notes on the notation sheet with the pressing of the pistons on her instrument. In other words, it's a mechanical process which involves no musical creativity or feeling. She's absolutely tone-deaf.

My brother's ex-wife is also on the autism spectrum — she has a severe degree of ADHD — as well as that she is a narcissistic psychopath. She appears charming to people who don't know her, but that charm is entirely fake, and her sole purpose in life is unadulterated self-indulgence. She literally doesn't care about anyone other than herself, and she has no concept whatsoever of right and wrong.

[Dumpster Diver]

Given the info above about CG and the more I rake thru this CG stuff, the more I think that David Wilcock (and Gaia TV) are the real Target(s).

My logic: CG & DW are now so linked together, if you set up and then take down CG, you have a real shot at taking down DW. And DW is a real powerhouse in Gaia TV's "Wonderland". And then, if you wound DW, you can take a piece out of Gaia TV.

I'm thinking that the entire CG affair may be an elaborate and deep play against DW & Gaia TV by dark agenda folks.

Yup, my training in Counter Intelligence is taking over again.

[Dreamtimer]

Well...I looked at Gaia TV a little because I don't know much. It's quite a transparent organization. You can see what it's worth, who runs it, who's on the Board of Directors, who has invested, what their mission is, etc.

There are a lot of series available. I don't know how many.

[Dumpster Diver]

If you get a subscription (well worth it, in my opinion) check out:

https://www.gaia.com/video/part-1-introduction-secrets-plain-sight-0?fullplayer=feature

Which is the start of a mini-series on what I call "magic" numbers. As a mathematician, this alone is very hard core evidence of a controlling deep state.

[Fred Steeves]

It's a strong hunch of mine that there was never much in the way of building up contacts, rather that the interviewees/contacts from Project Camelot were already lined up at the door when the dynamic duo got together (or was it more like an arranged marriage?).


Do you have any specific events in the timeline to point to that would explain your hunch?
No specific events, more the chronology of events during the Serpo releases. Play around on the search engine of your choice based on "reality uncovered serpo investigation". Reality Uncovered was (and still is) a forum that split off from ATS back in 2006 where Bill first made his big splash over the supposed "Anonymous" releases, once enough of the regulars sniffed enough of something rotten to begin investigating.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread185069/pg1

In your searches you will come across Richard Doty's involvement, other involved spook types, the behind the scenes email chain "Team of Five" guiding the story along, the "Aviary" ufo group, the MJ12 stories (parent of Serpo), and more pertinent to your direct question, the Victor Martinez email group from which the super secret "Anonymous" source sprang forth from.


In the following interview (media player below), Jerry talks with Bill Ryan, who less that two months ago, knew nothing about a remarkable, above top secret US government project, code named Serpo. Coincidentally, he was on an e-mail mailing list that had several Defense Department Officials, Black Project Managers and UFO Researchers which received a dispatch from "Anonymous".
http://www.jerrypippin.com/UFO_Files_serpo_project.htm

Even though the story/meme caught fire, and lives on today, it quickly became quite discredited in that day. Yet one interesting thing was, how did Bill (and soon to be Kerry) so quickly gain access do the explosive degree Project Camelot was able, to so many of these behind the scenes and fascinating people?

This is the basis of my hunch, that it makes more sense Bill at some level was greenlighted access to the people on Victor's email list (whether he was aware of it or not), than the popular idea that it just, happened... The hook up, along with how seamlessly these testimonials came along, look far too timely and convenient to me to be mere happen chance due to a flash of alt media fame.. This doesn't mean I'm saying Bill would have been necessarily knowledgeable of an inside hook up such as this, as I think people in general tend to be blissfully unaware of incredibly convenient, and highly unlikely scenarios such as presented here.


the stench from Serpo's waning credibility.


Is it your opinion that there is no planet Serpo and that there was no exchange program?

There is far as I know zero evidence of the required binary star system, that a planet Serpo would be hooked up with in the Zeta Reticuli star system. Would I state my belief to be that a tale like this, an interplanetary astronaut exchange, is impossible? No. But I *do not* believe for one second, any ufo tale spun in this setting. Especially, with Richard Doty being a prime player. Major red flag!

[Gio]

If you get a subscription (well worth it, in my opinion) check out:

https://www.gaia.com/video/part-1-introduction-secrets-plain-sight-0?fullplayer=feature

Which is the start of a mini-series on what I call "magic" numbers. As a mathematician, this alone is very hard core evidence of a controlling deep state.

If your going to promo/advertise send them to the correct site ...
https://www.gaia.com/?utm_source=youtube+organic&utm_medium=gaia&utm_campaign=gen&utm_content=&utm_term=&ch=all

youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/gaiamtv

giggle :)

[Dreamtimer]

What's the name of the numbers show, Dumpy? I couldn't see it with your link.

[Dumpster Diver]

What's the name of the numbers show, Dumpy? I couldn't see it with your link.

Sorry, it is:

Secrets in Plain Sight. It runs to about 5-6 shows, and was never very popular. I think it is the most hard to refute set of videos because everything is based on geometry and math.

[WantDisclosure]

That said, the general consensus among our members is that it is very unlikely for that species to exist as described by Corey Goode. That is not to say that no avian humanoids would exist, but rather that Corey's depiction of them would be misinformation.
Do you think that Dr. Michael Salla is being deluded by Corey Goode?

[Dumpster Diver]

Do you think that Dr. Michael Salla is being deluded by Corey Goode?

I think Dr. Salla is an alien...he has a funny accent.

[Aragorn]

That said, the general consensus among our members is that it is very unlikely for that species to exist as described by Corey Goode. That is not to say that no avian humanoids would exist, but rather that Corey's depiction of them would be misinformation.

Do you think that Dr. Michael Salla is being deluded by Corey Goode?

I think Dr. Salla would be a little too much like Fox Mulder.



http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/283/235/7e3.jpg

[WantDisclosure]

I think Dr. Salla would be a little too much like Fox Mulder.
To the contrary, Dr. Salla is a skilled, thorough investigator.

[Aianawa]

Yes he is, very much enjoy how he works, does have a seeker attitude which we can all make mistakes with though.

[WantDisclosure]

Yes he is, very much enjoy how he works, does have a seeker attitude which we can all make mistakes with though.
Yes, I agree.

However, one can tell who is a true seeker and who is not, by their response to apparent contradictions to their original stance on any given topic.