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Thread: Humanity Stands at Standing Rock

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally posted by Novusod View Post
    The Key stone pipeline and DAPL are different things. The key stone pipeline may have been a distraction to trick people into thinking they had won so they wouldn't oppose their real plans with the DAPL.
    I apologize if I gave the wrong info. In any case it is a step in the right direction, Obama did say he would rethink the whole process again.

    I was wondering about those dates too, Nothing...
    Last edited by Elen, 11th November 2016 at 07:19. Reason: Added sentence

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  3. #122
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    Here's the first article I came across, it seems fairly balanced:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...-american-risk

    THe Keystone pipe is not a distraction, it is a business model. I've read that the investor literature claims all risk goes on American public, while all profit goes to the corporations. The tar sands heavy crude it would pump to the gulf is all for export.

    The difference between the pipes is the media coverage and political debate over it. It may be "token" political football to determine how to deal with pesky Americans with issues with it, and therefore set precedencts on how to handle it. It can also provide lessons to activists on how combat these types of things
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  5. #123
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    "The Hill" is part of what I consider part of the main stream media. They were selling a bunch of fear in a contrived story. The Keystone pipeline was a distraction because it never had any chance of ever being built.

    It is the classic con-artist pick pocket scam. There is one scam that is popular with pick pockets where one guy would throw bird poop on an unsuspecting victim. Then an accomplice would run over to the victim with paper towels and help clean of clean off the bird crap. While the accomplice was wiping the victim down he would snatch the man's wallet. Because the victim was too distracted with being covered in bird poop he wouldn't notice the man take his wallet. The bird poop was a distraction to provide cover for the real crime of stealing the wallet.

    This is what happened with Keystone and DAPL.
    Keystone = victim being sprayed with bird poop
    DAPL = is the real crime when the man takes the wallet

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  7. #124
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    Quote Originally posted by Novusod View Post
    "The Hill" is part of what I consider part of the main stream media. They were selling a bunch of fear in a contrived story. The Keystone pipeline was a distraction because it never had any chance of ever being built.

    It is the classic con-artist pick pocket scam. There is one scam that is popular with pick pockets where one guy would throw bird poop on an unsuspecting victim. Then an accomplice would run over to the victim with paper towels and help clean of clean off the bird crap. While the accomplice was wiping the victim down he would snatch the man's wallet. Because the victim was too distracted with being covered in bird poop he wouldn't notice the man take his wallet. The bird poop was a distraction to provide cover for the real crime of stealing the wallet.

    This is what happened with Keystone and DAPL.
    Keystone = victim being sprayed with bird poop
    DAPL = is the real crime when the man takes the wallet
    Do you think the story and announcement was published 12 months ago to the day so as it could be placed in a "In the news a year ago" slot on web pages recently and be mistaken for news in the now and be able to grab a second usage out of it?

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  9. #125
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    I read somewhere along my daily news travels, quite some time ago; that Obama was not going to approve the keystone pipeline>>>> so this was not news in the long run. Finally officiated his decision in a news release!!

    This news also destracts from the pipeline presently being built to facilitate oil to Asia via the Pacific Coast presently being protested by First Nations people here in British Columbia.

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  11. #126
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    Quote Originally posted by Nothing View Post
    Do you think the story and announcement was published 12 months ago to the day so as it could be placed in a "In the news a year ago" slot on web pages recently and be mistaken for news in the now and be able to grab a second usage out of it?
    What I am saying is that Keystone was a distraction that enabled DAPL get approved a year ago.

    How come people weren't protesting DAPL a year ago? It is far easier to stop a plan in its' planning stages than it is to reverse a plan that is already been approved and is going forward. The question we have to ask is how did DAPL get approved without any resistance? It is because people were too busy worrying about the Keystone pipeline. People's energies were distracted and wasted. Unfortunately the oil company's plans worked.

    It was classic Hagelian dialectic. Thesis vs Antithesis -> Synthesis.

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    Thanks for the expand Novusod, I am only really aware of the bare minimum of this event and topic, owing to a few things like a recent hectic work schedule, and it being on the opposite side of the world.

    The thing alerting me was just seeing how the report linked by Elen ended up being from 12 months ago, and had been placed in a new web page called, "news this time last year" or what ever it was. It is really just the time sync that makes me prompt these questions. It is fairly convoluted of me to think someone might release a story during a week one year prior to an event, so it can be used to some effect on that date I know, a measure perhaps of cynicism. I'm pretty sure the paranoia is under control lol.

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    Quote Originally posted by Novusod View Post
    What I am saying is that Keystone was a distraction that enabled DAPL get approved a year ago.

    How come people weren't protesting DAPL a year ago? It is far easier to stop a plan in its' planning stages than it is to reverse a plan that is already been approved and is going forward. The question we have to ask is how did DAPL get approved without any resistance? It is because people were too busy worrying about the Keystone pipeline. People's energies were distracted and wasted. Unfortunately the oil company's plans worked.

    It was classic Hagelian dialectic. Thesis vs Antithesis -> Synthesis.
    The natives set up camp at Standing Rock and made a call out to all nations when the DAPL plowed through sacred burial grounds. Otherwise, there'd probably never be a protest

    There is a plethora of pipelines that have been built in the last couple of years without any notice because they're usually far from heavily populated areas.

    The difference between DAPL and the others is the Lakota called and people came. I guess the difference between Keystone is the rest is that it was political theatre and never got built. No media coverage on the former, coverage out the wazoo on the latter. All of it showing how distorted the information we get is.

    I've heard the plan wasn't through the area now being protected, seen maps that it was originally wasn't even going through the reservation. What's being exposed in ND is how the companies completely disregard any regulations and are loose with their "plans"...I guess they can afford the fines, if authority ever levys any their way.

    Thanks for the insight novusod, very good points
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  17. #129
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    I know it's "mainstream", but I believe this is information that should really be considered:

    http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-w...s-being-built/

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle31568800/

    I'm fairly certain the Keystone IS being built, i am not really understanding where you are getting information otherwise?

    Many thanks to a good friend for providing me this...anyone else know anything about it??

    ADDED: ah, I see where the confusion comes in. THe Keystone Pipeline has existed for awhile. Its an extension of it, they are calling it Keystone XL, that is under political debate:

    http://heavy.com/news/2014/11/keysto...-senate-house/

    I'm not sure it fits the problem->reaction->solution Hegelian mold you are putting it in. I don't think the oil companies wanted any reaction to what they're doing...but what do I know? I just know i read that in the prospectus for the project it supposedly straight up says something like, "all risk on US population, all profits to the company"....which seems real and easy enough to fact check, right? Or NOTHING can be...I dunno. But it seems to make the most sense that the blatant ****ing on the people AFTER they'd already been ****ed on triggered the political battle, seems like all the other destructive energy projects are as quiet as possible...the keystone people seemed to get a little to arrogant.

    Just my "uninformed" thoughts on the information the universe brought to my awareness, make of it what you will
    Last edited by donk, 12th November 2016 at 13:51.
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    Here's the best copy I could make of the text of the first link, which i think is really relevant insights, regardless of it being in the Seattle Times:


    EnvironmentNationNation & World
    There’s a reason few even knew the Dakota Access Pipeline was being built
    Originally published November 10, 2016 at 7:50 pm Updated November 10, 2016 at 10:11 pm
    Native American tribes have been at the forefront of protests over the Dakota Access Pipeline, which would veer into historic tribal sites.
    Native American tribes have been at the forefront of protests over the Dakota Access Pipeline, which would veer into historic tribal sites. Domestic projects, built largely on private land, do not require an overarching federal... More

    There is a reason things moved quickly on the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline, and critics say it highlights a serious flaw in the way big oil pipelines get built.

    Share story
    By William Yardley
    Los Angeles Times (TNS)
    The bitter fight over the Dakota Access Pipeline seemed to erupt out of nowhere this summer, and there is a good explanation for that: Relatively few people knew the pipeline was being built.

    In summer 2014, the pipeline was a concept, a major crude-oil transport project whose developers had not yet sought permits. Barely 18 months later, it was under construction.


    That might seem like a quick turnaround for a 1,170-mile pipeline that would transport 500,000 barrels of crude oil a day, span four states, cross water and wetlands hundreds of times, veer near historic Native American sites, cut through farms and take private land by eminent domain.

    About the pipeline protest
    Seattle Times reporter Lynda V. Mapes and photographer Alan Berner traveled to North Dakota to cover the protests against the $3.8 billion Dakota Access Pipeline. Here are recent stories to help you understand the conflict:
    Background stories: Here's a primer on the pipeline project, including the key players on all sides, a brief history of broken treaty promises and a closer look at the courtroom battle. And here's what we're reading related to the controversy.
    Nov. 2: Obama says Army Corps is looking at an alternative pipeline route.
    Oct. 28: New standoff ebbs without violence.
    Live updates from from Seattle Times journalists on the scene Oct. 26, Oct. 27 and Oct. 28.
    Oct. 25: Tribes in Washington state call on President Obama to improve federal consultations over infrastructure projects.
    Oct. 24: Citing treaty claim, protesters occupy land a rancher recently sold to pipeline developer Energy Transfer Partners.
    Oct. 19: The Standing Rock council votes to let protesters use tribal land near the occupation site for shelter during the brutal winter.
    Oct. 18: Northwest tribes' victories over fossil-fuel projects inspire pipeline protesters.
    Jerry Large: Dakota Access Pipeline fight is a product of ignored rights.
    Read more Seattle Times stories about Standing Rock.
    See photos from the Dakota Access Pipeline protests.

    There is a reason things moved quickly, and critics say it highlights a serious flaw in the way big oil pipelines get built.

    Unlike many other major energy projects — drill rigs off the coast of Alaska, large wind farms in the West, natural-gas pipelines — domestic oil pipelines built largely on private land often do not require an overarching permit from the federal government, even those as sprawling and ambitious as the Dakota Access Pipeline.

    This is what happens instead: The Army Corps of Engineers, the federal agency that issues permits for construction on and near waterways, often does not assess major pipeline projects as major pipeline projects.

    Rather than examining the impact a major pipeline could have across its length, looking at cumulative effects on water, air quality, land and animal species or the climate-changing emissions a pipeline might enable, the Corps typically assesses big pipelines as a series of much smaller ones, sometimes hundreds of smaller ones — breaking them into segments to be reviewed at specific water and wetland locations.

    This piecemeal approach falls under a process called Nationwide Permit 12.

    Language of law
    Critics point to the language of the law and express exasperation at the Corps’ interpretation of it. Nationwide Permit 12 allows for “activities required for the construction, maintenance, repair, and removal of utility lines and associated facilities in waters of the United States, provided the activity does not result in the loss of greater than ½ -acre of waters of the United States for each single and complete project.”

    How, critics ask, could the Corps view a pipeline’s every impact as a “single and complete project” if it’s only being examined piece by piece?

    ADVERTISING

    inRead invented by Teads

    “It’s in violation with, if not the law itself, certainly the spirit of the law,” said Jim Murphy, a lawyer for the National Wildlife Federation who specializes in the Clean Water Act and other federal regulations.

    The Corps, in response, pointed to its website, which states its goal in using this method is to reduce paperwork on projects that will have “minimal” impact on the environment. In the case of the Dakota Access Pipeline, it said it “may only regulate the areas where the pipeline crosses waters of the United States or federal real property interests acquired and managed by the Corps for flood control and navigation projects.”

    Treating a project this way spares it and the Corps layers of stricter scrutiny, including wider public review and potentially analysis by federal scientists through the National Environmental Policy Act, the Endangered Species Act and other regulatory measures.

    President Obama has boasted at times of the efficiency of pipeline construction under his administration.

    “We’ve added enough new oil and gas pipeline to encircle the Earth and then some,” the president said in Cushing, Okla., in March 2012.

    He went on, making an election-year promise to be a fossil-fuel friendly executive. “As long as I’m president,” he said, “we’re going to keep on encouraging oil development and infrastructure, and we’re going to do it in a way that protects the health and safety of the American people.”

    Decision a departure

    There are exceptions. The Keystone XL Pipeline Project, which would have transported crude from Canada’s oil sands to Nebraska, triggered a State Department analysis that ultimately left the decision to the president.

    With the Paris climate-conference approaching, Obama rejected the Keystone XL Pipeline, in part to signal U.S. resolve about nurturing renewable energy.

    The decision was a departure for Obama. In the Cushing speech, Obama vowed that a different part of the Keystone system, its southern leg, the nearly 500-mile Gulf Coast pipeline, would be permitted and fast-tracked under Nationwide Permit 12.

    Now, however, Nationwide Permit 12 is stirring a new level of opposition. Courts have upheld its use, but the policy is revised every five years, and environmental groups — many that paid little attention before Keystone XL and the boom in domestic oil production — have zeroed in.

    “Oil companies have been using this antiquated fast-track permit process that was not designed to properly address the issues of megaprojects such as the Dakota Access Pipeline,” Dallas Goldtooth, of the Indigenous Environmental Network, wrote this summer, when his group and others submitted more than 35,000 comments during the formal review period.

    “Meanwhile, tribal rights to consultation have been trampled and Big Oil is allowed to put our waters, air and land at immense risk,” Goldtooth wrote.


    The increasingly tense protests over the Dakota Access Pipeline have largely focused on tribal concerns, but critics like Goldtooth have also drawn attention to Nationwide Permit 12. The Obama administration did, too, perhaps inadvertently, with its unusual decision in September to withhold a final permit to allow the Dakota Access Pipeline to cross a small portion of federal land and Lake Oahe, a dammed section of the federally regulated Missouri River that provides water for the Standing Rock Sioux.

    The administration acted just minutes after a federal judge denied a request by the Standing Rock Sioux to halt construction on the pipeline.

    In his ruling, U.S. District Judge James Boasberg in Washington, D.C., referring to the way the Corps usually permits such projects, said the pipeline “needs almost no federal permitting of any kind because 99 percent of its route traverses private land.”

    The crossing at Lake Oahe and the federal land next to it is not private, giving the administration more leverage to invoke federal authority than it has elsewhere along the route.

    Energy Transfer Partners, the Texas company overseeing the pipeline’s construction, has accused the administration of disrupting a $3.8 billion project it says is 75 percent complete and largely paid for.

    But one of the wrinkles and risks of operating under Nationwide Permit 12 is that a company can choose to begin construction in certain areas of a project without having permits for all of it. In the past, that seemed safe to do. Now, because of the protests, Energy Transfer Partners finds itself stuck on the banks of Lake Oahe.

    William Yardley
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  21. #131
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    Quote Originally posted by Elen View Post
    I apologize if I gave the wrong info. In any case it is a step in the right direction, Obama did say he would rethink the whole process again.

    I was wondering about those dates too, Nothing...
    No need to apologize. I am not blaming you for anything.

    Quote Originally posted by donk View Post
    The natives set up camp at Standing Rock and made a call out to all nations when the DAPL plowed through sacred burial grounds. Otherwise, there'd probably never be a protest

    There is a plethora of pipelines that have been built in the last couple of years without any notice because they're usually far from heavily populated areas.

    The difference between DAPL and the others is the Lakota called and people came. I guess the difference between Keystone is the rest is that it was political theatre and never got built. No media coverage on the former, coverage out the wazoo on the latter. All of it showing how distorted the information we get is.

    I've heard the plan wasn't through the area now being protected, seen maps that it was originally wasn't even going through the reservation. What's being exposed in ND is how the companies completely disregard any regulations and are loose with their "plans"...I guess they can afford the fines, if authority ever levys any their way.

    Thanks for the insight novusod, very good points
    Thank you donk, I acknowledge your insight and the valiant struggle the Lakota have fought trying to stop this monstrosity. I was mistaken with the difference between Keystone and Keystone XL. The Keystone XL was the one that got defeated and was heavily talked about in the mainstream media.

    How this falls into problem reaction solution is as follows:
    They cause the problem (Keystone XL)
    Reaction or antithesis is people don't want it built. This narrative is captured by the mainstream media.
    Solution: they don't build Keystone XL but approve DAPL instead with little resistance.

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    Maybe, but I'm not sure "they" would use a pipeline to distract from the issues of another pipeline. My guess is they want the XL built just as bad as the DAPL, but more of their concern is the way they get around any regulations or environemental impact reports or sticking to their plans or.....well you get the picture, there concern is not being able to shit on the country and people as much as they want to get what they want.

    So if there is this problem-reaction-solution like you describe than the distraction would be the election...all eyes on Trump the Pres (rather than Trump the Energy Transfer Partners investor) while Obama (who decided to "let it go and see how it plays out" when forced to address the protests at Standing Rock) sneaks through an easement for ETP, giving them all the help and support they need to get through that last bit in the area in question...not just sacred to the natives, but it's the river that millions and millions of Americans use.

    People are so caught up in whatever emotional attachment they had to whatever issue was touched on the spectacle of the election and the surreal outcome, it'd be tough to notice for most people who think the whole thing is a environmentalist versus economist issue, not being able to connect any direct impact on them. As long as they can keep it to blurbs on the business page and "green" newsletters and "whackos" & activists on the Book, then "they" are making out ok.

    Cuz if the 500 nations there can manage to make the project a bad investment, stop it before it crosses the river...it might just become a "big deal". A model on how to approach our corporate masters and th government that protects and supports them. I think they would much rather having us call each other racist pussy grabbers and violent cry baby rioters than looking into ANY of the shenanigans of any these super destructive energy projects
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    "It ignites a flame where you want people to know the truth"...Jacklyn Cheung

    TYT Politics Reporter Jordan Chariton (https://twitter.com/JordanChariton) spoke with Kia Kazemian and Jacklyn Cheung (@aavanews), two citizen journalists who were emboldened to act and cover the Standing Rock water protectors' struggle against the Dakota Access Pipeline after seeing the mainstream media's awful coverage.

    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ3NDKpraAE



    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmjsIWaWzI8
    Last edited by Maggie, 15th November 2016 at 02:43.

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    A reminder ...

    From friends Mike & Amy ...
    Commonlink Productions



    ***

    Water is life - connecting with the source that keeps us alive


    "Water is the lifeblood of our planet. A massive day of action is taking place on November 15, 2016.

    Indigenous leaders are calling on people to take to the streets and disrupt "business-as-usual" one week after the election to demand that President Obama’s Army Corps of Engineers and the incoming administration stop the Dakota Access Pipeline -- and all those after it.

    On Tuesday, November 15th, join a massive day of action in solidarity with those at Standing Rock, and demand the Federal government and the Army Corps reject this pipeline.

    Find an event at an Army Corps of Engineer office near you, or sign up to host an action in your city to support the indigenous communities and landowners fighting on the front lines."

    Published on Nov 11, 2016


    Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifDquxCDXGQ


    There are other ways you can help:

    1. Call North Dakota Governor Jack Dalrymple at 701-328-2200. When leaving a message stating your thoughts about this subject please be professional.
    2. Call the White House at (202) 456-1111 or (202) 456-1414. Tell President Obama to rescind the Army Corps of Engineers’ Permit for the Dakota Access Pipeline.
    3. Contribute to the Standing Rock Sioux at http://standingrock.org/news/standing...
    4. Donate items from the Sacred Stone Camp Supply List: http://sacredstonecamp.org/supply-list/
    5. Donate the following items to the Red Warrior Camp https://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wi...
    6. Contribute to the Red Warrior Camp Wintern Fund: https://www.gofundme.com/redwarriorcamp or their Legal Fund: https://www.generosity.com/fundraisin...
    7. Contribute to the Sacred Stone Camp Legal Defense Fund: https://fundrazr.com/d19fAf and/or their gofundme account: https://www.gofundme.com/sacredstonecamp
    8. Sign the petition to the White House to Stop DAPL: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/peti....
    9. Like and follow these Pages to stay up to date with latest all the latest info and be prepared to raise awareness across all social media: Sacred Stone Camp | Red Warrior Camp | Standing Rock Sioux Tribe | Unicorn Riot | West Coast Women Warriors Media Cooperative | Shailene Woodley
    10. Share this video

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