Devil’s Advocate: Doubts About Life After Death

[The One]

There have been several articles in the UK media showing that the number of people who believe in life after death has increased. It’s now at about 74% according to surveys – and this is despite the numbers of people going to church, and being involved in religions has declined considerably.

I have always believed in life after death, but let’s play devil’s advocate for a change.

In 2014 I had surgery. I was under the influence of anesthetic from 5.30pm pm until about 7.30 pm. I have no memories at all for that 2 hour period: I had no dreams, no mystical visitations or experiences from loved ones, I didn’t leave my body or feel myself floating about and so on. My body was functioning but otherwise, for all intents and purposes, I was nothing at all. ‘I’ wasn’t existing anywhere, the ‘me’ that is my thoughts, memories and experiences didn’t exist.

Over 90% of people who go under feel the same as i did and only a small minority go onto say that had mystical visitations or they had experiences from loved ones, or they could see themselves floating above their bodies.

So was that 2 hour period identical to death? All that’s left of us are the memories we have left behind and the influences we have sown in our children and surroundings.

Wow what a cheerful thought lol.


Your thoughts

Cheers

[lcam88]

You have no memories that you can recall during those two hours.

If recalling a memory is analogous to consciousness, perhaps experiences difficult to recall or remember could be analogous to the subconscious?

All that to say that being unable to recollect events cannot mean that you did not exist.

Death is a fascinating subject to me. So is life. Pondering those ideas:

To be able to make a claim that an afterlife or reincarnation exists we must create an understanding of what life is in a way that goes beyond what science and medicine are willing openly explore. That is where devils advocate dabbles on this subject to suggest that those institutions are flawed.

You are saying that 74% of the UK is of this position? That is progress of a kind.

[Dreamtimer]

I agree with lcam88.

I don't recall the exact experience but when I was nine I had surgery and they had to use the ammonia sticks to wake me after. I did not want to wake up. I was very mad that they had taken me away from where I was and what I was doing. I recall the nurse scolding me for my language. I have no idea where I went.

I've had some dreams that when I recalled them I was blown away that I hadn't before. How can you have such amazing experiences and forget them?

I think that to recall too much of what's on the other side makes it hard to keep living here and now. It's hard to find a balance.

[bsbray]

First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study

Death is a depressingly inevitable consequence of life, but now scientists believe they may have found some light at the end of the tunnel.

The largest ever medical study into near-death and out-of-body experiences has discovered that some awareness may continue even after the brain has shut down completely.

It is a controversial subject which has, until recently, been treated with widespread scepticism.

But scientists at the University of Southampton have spent four years examining more than 2,000 people who suffered cardiac arrests at 15 hospitals in the UK, US and Austria.

And they found that nearly 40 per cent of people who survived described some kind of ‘awareness’ during the time when they were clinically dead before their hearts were restarted.

One man even recalled leaving his body entirely and watching his resuscitation from the corner of the room.

Despite being unconscious and ‘dead’ for three minutes, the 57-year-old social worker from Southampton, recounted the actions of the nursing staff in detail and described the sound of the machines.

“We know the brain can’t function when the heart has stopped beating,” said Dr Sam Parnia, a former research fellow at Southampton University, now at the State University of New York, who led the study.

“But in this case, conscious awareness appears to have continued for up to three minutes into the period when the heart wasn’t beating, even though the brain typically shuts down within 20-30 seconds after the heart has stopped.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scie...fic-study.html

[scibuster]

Is there "Life-consciousness-without-a-body" after death at the lower astral plane ?

Yes, your conciousness is grabbed and hold into the lower astral plane matrix until rebirth with a fine cleared-blank memory reboot.

Happy inkarnudel.

[Dreamtimer]

Happy inkarnudel...what does that mean? An incarnated noodle? Noodle is slang for brain. "Use your noodle."

Is it someone's name?

[Cearna]

I have had heaps of operations, and must admit they were all like you experienced, during them, afterwards different reactions each time, but nothing special.

However, I had an experience of going into a coma with the first of three haematoma's. I had been asking for help from the doctor for pain in my head for at least three months, but was never sent for a brain scan (nowadays, should I feel that same pain, they whip me off immediately for a brain scan). According to my neurologists, over that time my brain just could no cope any more and it eventually shut down. On the Thursday I started vomiting and had to miss my one outing for the year of a luncheon/day out for carers, which I had looked forward to, I think I went to the doctor about feeling so sick, Friday I seemed to be out of it, but still sort of functioning, Saturday I don't remember much, but my husband found me eating cat food out of a tin near the refrigerator and later sitting on the lounge, said I'm worried about you and I told him I was OK, that's all I can remember of that day, and Sunday I was in a coma and had no control of my bladder. After an emergency brain scan they took me the two hour trip to the Nepean hospital and I was operated on that night. It was life and death, and the surgeons just could not stop my brain bleeding, which also happened in the next two times that I underwent surgery at later times. I still did not go through any experience under the operation, so maybe I never was going to die. I began waking up in the early hours of Tuesday morning, having weird ideas that the nurses were evil beings and that I was on the floor, I had no idea that I had gone to hospital, nor been operated on, I finally woke up Tuesday morning and have still no recollection of those days before and after since my brain had shut down.

So my conclusion has been that it is when you actually go into death, that you have those experiences. You see, my husband for many years wanted to die, until eventually the Gods said OK, you want to go with no pain, so we will bring the light to you in the night in your sleep, all you have to do is to walk into it, and we will see you go to where you need to go. After many tries he said I'm too scared will some one go with me and they said they would, but he never could walk into that light in his sleep. When he had those sever heart attacks and breakdown of his kidneys and diabetes out of control, he was asked do you want to die by the doctors, and he said no, I'm not ready yet. So he fought death off once again. When he wants to go, then he will, I am sure.

[Dreamtimer]

I came across an interview on a show called Effed Up Stories (or something similar). The young man telling the story had had a pierced duodenum. He was in severe pain, rushed to a hospital and told he needed surgery within an hour. For whatever reasons, it took several hours for a surgeon to come. The young man was delirious.

During the time he was waiting he had an OBE. He says he had been an atheist and didn't believe in having a soul so when he found himself outside his body he thought he was actually in his body walking around. He heard voices in the hall and went out to talk to them thinking it was the doctors. As soon as he went into the hall he was surrounded by these people (who he thought were doctors) who began herding him down the hall.

He went with them but the walk went on and on. More people came and surrounded him and he began to feel trapped. The hall became darker and the people more sinister. As he tried to talk to them they told him to shut up. As they went further on some began to tell him the horrible things they were gonna do to him.

He tried to break free but couldn't. He felt like he was heading for hell. Finally he heard a voice tell him to pray. He didn't know how to pray so he started reciting anything he knew that might be like a prayer. Eventually he experienced a helping hand that rescued him from the people threatening him.

He found religion after this experience.

I found the story quite interesting. Though he found a savior, he had to do the praying himself and ask for the help.

[curious soul]

So was that 2 hour period identical to death? All that’s left of us are the memories we have left behind and the influences we have sown in our children and surroundings.

Wow what a cheerful thought lol.


Your thoughts

Cheers

Yes, I'm thinking that we are the continuing process of identities of all those who came before us, and after we pass,continue the process by leaving a part of ourselves in the ones we have given birth to and on and on it goes in constant flux until the end (death) which is absolutely un-knowable. In this sense we are living and dying simultaneously always here now, the only place we've ever known to exist.

[sarahdita85]

Yeah I believe the drug that is given to put you under contains an ingredient to purposely give you temporary amnesia, this is so even if you started to come round (in most cases) you wouldnt remember it.

[curious soul]

Found this an interesting idea ...



'' Consciousness is the presence of the ability to experience life (senses, emotions, perceptions, thoughts, etc.). Death is the absence of consciousness (inability to experience those senses). Going by this simple logic it would seem that all conscious things are fated to be immortal.

If one cannot experience death, then how does one die? The body may die, consciousness itself may end… but a conscious being cannot experience the absence of consciousness, therefore making this being immortal.

To further develop this idea: Think about what it is that you are. You are not your body you are whatever it is (the mind, the soul, the ether) that experiences the experiences of the body. You are the awareness of self, you think therefore you are. You can’t experience “non-experience”, hence why you have no recollection of all those billions of years before you were born.

Basically, to put your consciousness on a timeline: you are all the parts where you are alive… if there is reincarnation, alternate dimensions, or whatever… you can only be the living parts. As soon as your body dies, consciousness is cut off… you don’t experience this period, if your consciousness is ever to be reconnected to a body, you would experience this right away. You can’t experience “non-experience”.

Like an unending movie: You close your eyes as you body fades away, and then you open your eyes right after in you next lifetime as if it is only seconds later (but a hundred trillion years could have passed but you can’t experience that).''

[curious soul]

Who lives, who dies?

[lift the veil]

Nanci Danison had a near death experience. She claims she met with the "rest of us" which I interpret as being her higher self or oversoul. She then went on to almost merge with Source, where she had access to Universal Knowledge. When she learned the truth (more like remembered the truth) as to who and what we are, rather than merge with Source, she felt the need to come back to the body and tell her story so everyone else could learn the truth.

Here is part one of her telling her experience. The rest of the parts can be found on her youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/user/NanciDa...?nohtml5=False

She has written three books which go in depth regarding all she learned/remembered. Topics included the eternal questions...who are we, where did we come from (WE ARE NOT HUMAN), who/what is God, who created the Universe and what role do we play in its growth/evolution, etc? What is the meaning of life, is the reason for living for us to learn or to just experience "life"? The role of human beliefs and religion are also discussed. She discusses how our consciousness creates reality and makes matter manifest, and why it is that we have that power (i.e who we truly are).

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFDI-jgFVqs


Nanci also did an interview with an ABC reporter regarding her NDE. It is in six parts. Here is the first part. The rest are on her channel here. https://www.youtube.com/user/NanciDa...?nohtml5=False

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxrSAnpoT6o

[BabaRa]

Just a pondering: Everyone's life experiences are different, so. . . . . perhaps everyone's death, dream-life and after life's experiences are also different.

Why would we assume otherwise?

There are mystics who believe that one's after-life experiences are predicated on a person's expectations, beliefs, etc. . . . just as many believe our earth experiences are drawn to us by our beliefs.

That has proven to be true in my life . . . but perhaps, that's just because it's what I believe. There is a philosophy that in order to change your life here on earth, one must first change their belief system. I suspect that is true of death and after-life.

[Cearna]

Found this an interesting idea ...



If one cannot experience death, then how does one die? The body may die, consciousness itself may end… but a conscious being cannot experience the absence of consciousness, therefore making this being immortal.

To further develop this idea: Think about what it is that you are. You are not your body you are whatever it is (the mind, the soul, the ether) that experiences the experiences of the body. You are the awareness of self, you think therefore you are. You can’t experience “non-experience”, hence why you have no recollection of all those billions of years before you were born.

Like an unending movie: You close your eyes as you body fades away, and then you open your eyes right after in you next lifetime as if it is only seconds later (but a hundred trillion years could have passed but you can’t experience that).''

To have a Life is a gift to you. At the end of your life, the gift ceases and you are to go on to new work, to a new dear self, and a new beginning in experience, to become more than what you were in this life. You won't know who you were, entity, or human, or race before that for you never want to go back, unless you were in open life and did not complete the link to some one you were not to linger on with as a great real link, but was some one you needed to begin with, the next time you begin a life.

To go on to something else is not to fear, nor is it the emblems of what your this life was about. Life is fearsome, it is either full of fear, or fear not, go and make of it all that you can. Not to care about the fears, is a real gift to those who can just go on into just roses on your door. To link you cost of your life, to "Oh no, this was so wrong, I must tear it out of my pages of life, or fix it up before I go on", is roping yourself in to the gentler cost of fear in dieing, but what need be done, is to look back on - first I did no wrong, I was so close to something, I cannot explain, but I knew not what this cost me, but I knew not the summing up, I would need to face, and I know what that something is now, so I can begin now to settle my Eternal struggle over what this is that I am, and needed to find out about.

I am in risk of costing my own Eternal struggle now, but I am in no pain of being guilty, for I now now "Who am I now", and that was my inner right to know or my consciousness, but I carry it on as mine own cost to what my aim was to begin this time round, and when it is time for me to go on, I will be asked to close this life down and end in dignity and cost no more to this link to God for I asked God first of all to take my hand and guide me through life, but after awhile I asked to be put on his shoulders and carried through to the end of my life and I know where I am going on to next and with whom I will travel, and meet at the end of the road.

What goes on of myself will be mine own to know of, but I will link to those with whom my soul has joined fully within these last four years, and we all intend to go on together from now on, as a family in need of close harmony (including all our four legged children), as entry into open life has taken me on to enter into open love such as I have never encompassed before. Mine own self gets to know as soon as I know I am ready to close down this life I am in now, this comes from having spent years on my own Truths so that I am now content to let my will be thy will about when I am to return back to my own rightful place above, this is consciousness giving the right to not need to know any more - it is now known to me.