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Thread: Trump: Illusion, Mist and Bought?

  1. #391
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    It used to be Republicans won elections because they had vision and ideas. Since the Clinton/Gingrich years that's not been the case. Their major selling point for decades now has been the evil liberals. To the point that someone like O'Keefe becomes a hero. It's messed up in all kinds of ways.

    My conservative friends used to point to Snopes. I don't know if they still do. Snopes doesn't find a lot of integrity in James' work.

    The fact that the voter ID program is pointed to as making it 'easier' is wonderfully ironic and a perfect demonstration of the law of unintended consequences.

    What O'Keefe did with ACORN was wrong. It undermines his integrity and credibility. Big League.

    (United Federation of Teachers Christmas party. December, 2015. Hmmm...I wonder if anybody was drinking?)


    I've looked into the Marxism/Cultural Conservative thing, it's relation to PC, and will be posting on that separately.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    It used to be Republicans won elections because they had vision and ideas. Since the Clinton/Gingrich years that's not been the case. Their major selling point for decades now has been the evil liberals. To the point that someone like O'Keefe becomes a hero. It's messed up in all kinds of ways.
    Yes, it's all messed up in all kinds of ways. A guy goes undercover and exposes election fraud and you complain about the guy that goes undercover. You're not getting your talking points from CNN too are you DreamTimer?

    But really, does it hurt that much to see your favorite party fall this low (it's been this way for decades actually), that you want to beat up on the guy trying to save our democratic process? It looks like we are about to get into some amazing mental gymnastics here to make O'Keefe out as the bad guy preying on a bunch of innocent little sheep. Tell me more about how dishonest he is being by showing you footage of people who would either be defendants or expert witnesses in court (including an election commissioner) saying in their own words that massive fraud has been going on for a long time. Doesn't that just make you so outraged... about the guy doing the undercover filming?

    Basically what you are telling me DreamTimer is that you'd sooner side with the criminals destroying our country, and support them in doing that, including supporting them rigging our vote, than abandon your party attachments. You are more offended that someone would record conversations secretly than that someone would rig your government's elections secretly, as long as it's the Democrats doing the rigging of course. When it comes to George Bush and Al Gore you might have a different opinion, since your morals depend on political party.


    Btw Snopes is run by these two.



    Using Snopes is like walking up to any two random people you see on the street who know how to use Google and vote liberal, and asking them what they think about something. Because that's all Snopes is. Two people with no formal education in researching anything so far as I know, that both use Google search and the woman at least is an avowed liberal. Sometimes they apparently pay other people to write articles for them too, for whatever that's worth. I've seen them purport to be experts on everything from medical issues (citing the FDA as a credible source that aspartame is safe) to political conspiracies. It has to be the most glorified amateur project ever as far as "fact checking" goes.


    What O'Keefe did with ACORN was wrong. It undermines his integrity and credibility. Big League.
    Then can you tell me what voter fraud does by comparison? Can you give me any sermons about integrity and credibility that have to do with that?

    It's interesting that under the law, voter fraud is a serious crime while filming people secretly doesn't necessarily constitute any crime at all. Our leaders must have gotten it backwards huh? Obviously voter fraud is less serious, isn't it DreamTimer?

    What happened to saying there was no evidence of it btw? That implies that it would be important if some evidence were uncovered. But when I show you evidence, you complain about the guy who obtained it. So really you just didn't want to see any evidence of voter fraud, is what I'm really gathering. And probably you really want Hillary to win the election, even by illegal theft, because that's how much you hate conservatism. You would rather destroy the values of your own country, traditional and conservative values such as the right to vote, just to see a woman get into office who you ironically don't even think is liberal enough for you in the first place.

    (United Federation of Teachers Christmas party. December, 2015. Hmmm...I wonder if anybody was drinking?)
    Yes because every time me and my buddies get drunk we all start making up elaborate lies about non-existent election fraud. It happens to everyone I know. They even put warning labels on beer cans now, "WARNING: Drinking alcohol may cause you to ramble incoherently about how the Democrats are committing election fraud and have been for years. Do not drink alcohol if you are in the presence of Republicans or anyone with a video camera." That's what it's like, right? Have you ever drank alcohol before DreamTimer?

    I've looked into the Marxism/Cultural Conservative thing, it's relation to PC, and will be posting on that separately.
    Great. You've become a great moral role model to me by condemning O'Keefe for exposing election fraud. I'm sure all of your values are in the right place and you can give a very reasonable and unbiased assessment of political ideologies. I'm taking notes already.
    Last edited by bsbray, 28th October 2016 at 17:49.

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  5. #393
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    Quote Originally posted by Aianawa View Post
    That was a pretty damning vid Bsbray.

    makes so little sense to me, has it always been so corrupt ?.
    Aianawa, this may horrify you, but... yes... Ever since cameras were invented, people have been.... been... I can hardly bring myself to say it... Filming people without their being aware of it. Police even do it all the time to fight crime. Oh the horror!

    That's the corruption you're talking about right? Me and DreamTimer don't see anything else wrong in the video after all. I heard someone mention "voter fraud" but I don't even know what those two words mean together.

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    First off, thanks bsbray for demonstrating so clearly what it is I've been describing. It takes nothing other than criticizing conservative views to get labeled and have all kinds of assumptions made. I was going to go through posts but you did it in just one. That makes it very easy:

    "getting your talking points from CNN"

    "does it hurt that much to see your favorite party fall this low"

    "you want to beat up on the guy"

    "you'd sooner side with the criminals"

    "you just didn't want to see any evidence of voter fraud"

    "you really want Hillary to win the election, even by illegal theft, because that's how much you hate conservatism"

    "You would rather destroy the values of your own country"

    That last one is the most telling. That's where the judgements and assumptions lead.

    I'd rather destroy.... Ridiculous.

    I didn't raise my son to be honest, hard working, faithful to his girlfriends (and yes, he has been since middle school), loving and appreciative of nature, self-sufficient, etc., just to have it all screwed up by people who want civil war/revolution. I have family in every region of the country and I'm not down with the 4GW insurrection. Sorry.

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    DT, you got shown undercover video of an election commissioner admitting that voter fraud has been going on for years, and you criticized the guy who set the trap and totally ignored the voter fraud allegations.

    So long as you act more outraged by the fact that the video was made, than what is actually being shown in the video, I really could care less about all of this fake moral righteousness.

    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    I didn't raise my son to be honest, hard working, faithful to his girlfriends (and yes, he has been since middle school), loving and appreciative of nature, self-sufficient, etc., just to have it all screwed up by people who want civil war/revolution. I have family in every region of the country and I'm not down with the 4GW insurrection. Sorry.
    Maybe your raised your kids for this instead.

    http://gb.fotolibra.com/images/previ...pril-1945.jpeg

    Every one of those dead people is somebody's kid who didn't stand and fight. They died anyway.

    Looking back, isn't it great that all those Jews and others never resisted the Nazis violently? Wow, what inspiring people, who just went off and died. I'm so inspired. What moral righteousness they showed. Jesus said turn the other cheek but he didn't have anything on these people.

    Let's follow their example, and also do absolutely nothing while our government becomes fascist. Sounds good to me. Everyone will be fine in the end. Of course.
    Last edited by The One, 31st October 2016 at 20:08. Reason: Image link added

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    One of my favorite all time stories is The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster. In the story, Milo and his faithful Watchdog get stuck on the island of Conclusions after they unwittingly jumped there. The only way back to shore is to swim through the Sea of Knowledge. I wish you good swimming, bsbray.

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  13. #397
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    Sometimes it is best to be blunt, sometimes not.

    Sometimes we need a mirror, sometimes two.

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    Quote Originally posted by Dreamtimer View Post
    One of my favorite all time stories is The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster. In the story, Milo and his faithful Watchdog get stuck on the island of Conclusions after they unwittingly jumped there. The only way back to shore is to swim through the Sea of Knowledge. I wish you good swimming, bsbray.
    You mean I might come back and support voter fraud like somebody else I know? Silence speaks volumes sometimes.

    I don't have any "nice" words for that, sorry, so I'll end my post here.

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    Senior Member Aianawa's Avatar
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    I will start a thread Bsbray, about the three worlds one can live in, sure there be more available, I once lived in one world, then two through know thyself, then three through that joining, knowing all is perfect even as one rants or defends or hurts is the beginning of the third world.

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    In that perfect world, Trump or Hillery could have stepped and what will this perfection bring ? pain ? suffering ? more positive changes ? LOL all of these ?

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    LOL all of these. But this change will be more dynamic and full of unexpected twisters.

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    I wrote this for a different thread, but at the risk of derailing it I am putting it here:

    It doesn't seem like humans can learn anything unless it's the "hard" way, and even then we cling to the lies we tell ourselves.

    Donald Trump occupying the POTUS position seems different than 'business as usual' to those in alignment with the information here...I sure hope you're right.

    We want to believe he's in opposition to the PTB, has some sort of free will he can impose that's different than their design...I sure hope that's true.

    These thoughts are different than the "dodging the bullet" of the Hil-dog sentiments that triggered to me to post. Do the beliefs we project on to a "Clinton future" distort our thinking about the actual one we face?

    It seems the only honest conversations we can have about POTUS (beyond speculation of a future with ____ in the slot) are these polarized ones, it's either "this or that", so accept one of the evils we get to choose from. I'm done sharing with the intent to try share how i feel the act of voting is a validation of the mindset, and aopolgize if you think it derail the thread, but I guess I shifted to trying to make sense of that mindset, now that we have no the (illusion of the) "choice" or empowered actions...to try to find something actionable.

    Faith is the driving the force of the political system, and the diversity of ideas that generate that energy has been intentionally divided and diverted from anything that could be an actual change. I think it is important to keep in mind that the "responsibility" is NOT on the "voters", as long as we keep thinking that, "they" will continue to do whatever they want unabated.

    I really honestly hope that as a human being Donald Trump can do any of things that we project on to the POTUS, that he does have free will and his personality and intentions actually do have an effect on government. It is natural and even fun to speculate, and good to get people out of the negativity and fear when they fall into it.

    But what I see happening is people focusing on what they are emotionally attached to, and using it to justify or excuse or deflect from the issues with the candidates that they aren't as attached to. And then using using those "pieces of information" (I get called an "stupid uninformed lib" anytime I question trump and a pedo-lover anytime i question hillary) to judge others with different attachments and conclusions.

    I hope this is becoming apparent to others, enough that more of us will be able to discern through the noise into finding anything actionable, that we can actually do something about
    What is the purpose of your presence?

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    Oh, derailing posts? Cool watch out folk who are balanced precariously on the post you may need to put your own arms out and try not to fall, nothing is there to catch you. :-P


    With the now ongoing unrest and to-ing and fro-ing of appeal by Hillary, it is advised that another more democratic nation goes in and sorts this out with tanks and guns and bombs, just like they have done themselves on many an occasion.

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    Adds.
    Okay, well I was expecting to see a huge spike in internet traffic as old members who haven't logged in for months and new members alike all jumped online to thank my post...so far none, checks watch. :-P


    Thanks Elen, I knew I could count on you!

    I hadn't planned to make a whole second post btw, I just sort of did something weird and the page refreshed on me half way through or something.

    Add again. Anyway on a more serious note, with my way of looking at the current sections of time, all must be seen as going to plan and the collaboration of events, from the last minute reminder about HC by the FBI, to the irresponsible tweeting by DT recently.. are all serving their purpose spiffingly.
    Last edited by enjoy being, 11th November 2016 at 22:16.

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    Way to go, Nothing. I was away but would have liked it of course.

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