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Thread: Savior paradigm

  1. #46
    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Predators in Africa also don't make their prey suffer. They kill it swiftly and for most part painlessly. A lion, a cheetah or a leopard always go for the jugular, while at the same time suffocating their prey with their powerful jaws.

    Intelligent beings who make other beings -- and then even more especially, other intelligent beings -- suffer on purpose for the sake of "recreation", not even for survival, that's what makes it perverse in my book.
    So you KNOW that any life form that intentionally makes us "suffer" does so for the motive of "recreation"? You can't imagine a form of life that feeds off emotionally energy the same way a plant does sunlight (or we do food)?

    You KNOW that there are creatures you describe, without the ability for empathy but are motivated to torture us...because that's how they choose to spend their time? It just doesn't make sense to me. Especially in context that you are able to show a lack of empathy toward creatures that seem to have a degree free will on their own, and moral relativity toward their torture.

    So I will bring this back toward the topic more, I believe that once I learn of suffering of another living creature, it becomes my responsibility to try to help relieve it. I understand that in this infinite universe, helping one I know of may be "harming" another that I am not. I understand that this is risk in acting the "savior".

    I believe that if we can detach emotionally from the beliefs we have about reality, we can analyze these relationships more accurately, and make better decisions. Having an automatic association of "fear" when someone mentions "savior" does not serve us. Whether or not it someone's responsibility to help us if they are equipped and in a position to, I just told you: My very being is to try to take that role any opportunity I get.

    What is really going on seems to an avoidance of an aspect of this discussion, and that is the nature/motivation of those that would enslave us. Perhaps if we ever obtained more accurate and less emotional feedback on that, we would be better equipped to avoid it. As long as we hang on to this habit of taking personally that someone/something is doing this to us (keeping us victims with strong and convoluted emotional attachment to the very idea of victimhood), we're never going to get out.

    Maybe you are incapable of applying the "as above, so below" connection here, but I will never be able NOT to. Whether or not you are conscious of it, I would think it was "good" if some being prevented the baby cow from being tortured, and it is not that baby calf's responsibility to save itself. Maybe our seemingly greater self-awareness gives us more responsibility in our current situation than the baby cow chained up in the slaughterhouse, but I am just cautioning that it might not be a failing to want or even welcome a "savior" outside of ourselves to help us allieve our suffering.

    It IS our responsibility to learn the motives and methods of enslavers, who seem to have the very effective method of posing as "saviors". But it would be wise to imagine/keep in mind that predators of that level of sophistication should be pretty capable of adjusting their tactics as their "prey" learns to defend against them.

    But again, my point is we can never even get to this level of thinking until we drop all our bad/old ideas and especially the emotional associations to the predator-prey relationship. In the grand scheme, we are responsible, if we suppose evolution and survival of the fittest and all that...but it seems that sovereign critical-thinking humans are an endangered species...where our fate seems less likely to be that of the dinosaurs than it does the fate of whatever cows were before we starting domesticating them.

    There's a lot of dynamics at play here: I wanted to be freed from the cultural programming that prevents independent, critical thought. Bringing carnivorous lizards into the equation is a different matter, I brought my perspective in there not for the fear-of-being-food angle, but to analyze our relationship with energy exchanges in a more general sense. If I saw humans getting devoured, it might be a different story. I only see humans being enslaved.
    Last edited by donk; 23rd April 2015 at 19:19.
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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by donk View Post
    I understand PINING for ET to save us self-destructive behavior, I’m not advocating that. What I am wondering about is why there seems to be such strong emotional reactions to the very idea something other than us might help us?
    Maybe it has to do with objecting to the creation of hopes that will make people lazy, passive and loosing perspective of what needs to be "saved". Perhaps because it under certain circumstances is disempowering.

    Some market the concepts that there will be immense riches and comfortable lives coming around the corner, or that they are fighting an extraterrestrial war on our behalf to save us.

    Helping is one thing, saving us is another thing. What we need to be saved of is our individual low vibrational egotistic vibrations and that can be done sitting on a pile of gold, or a pile of dirt.

    Maybe because much of the "help" offered is just new deceptive ways to keep us enslaved.

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  5. #48
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    Maybe because much of the "help" offered is just new deceptive ways to keep us enslaved.
    Agreed. I guess I'm worried there seems to be a more than "natural" fear seemingly intentionally attached, and it is based on the idea that wolves are coming in sheep's clothing.

    While it is a healthy fear to have for survival, the emotional attachment to seems to have ramped up lately...and to repeat, to me it seems intentional.
    Last edited by donk; 23rd April 2015 at 18:54.
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  7. #49
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    Last edited by ERK; 11th May 2015 at 01:45.

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    Senior Member donk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERK View Post
    You don't want veal to suffer? You realize what an oxymoron that is? Have you any idea how veal came to be veal and how it is raised? http://www.britishmeat.com/veal.html

    If ET's really want to help those on this planet, I think one of the first places they need to start is the *food arena* and by food, I do not just mean food we consume for *nourishment* (hardly, that as I hate to use that term) but other food as well. If there are really some higher vibration ET's , well maybe they ought to have a chat with us about the level of vibration the food we consume is vibrating at- frequency wise. Torture- food for thought.
    I think it is bizarre how hitting reply to quote came up with this whole quote, as I'm only seeing but what is in red...but I guess that's the forum fairies dinking around with the posts again....anyhow:

    You are kinda touching/demonstrating my point...from the other angle. Just as we need to rethink or at least analyze our emotional attachment to how poorly others treat "food" or other living beings, we need to look at how we feel about other people's beliefs.

    In particular, I understand and agree...the cognitive dissonance hurts my head. But instead of getting all bent and throwing my perspective at Aragorn, I step back and wonder: why is this in my presence? Why is such a seemingly intelligent individual standing by such absurdity? Does he even know what he is saying? Does he believe it?

    MODS: I am reporting this post because what I bolded came up in when I hit "reply with quote" to post #49....and I am not seeing this text anywhere...so something strange is going on.

    UPDATED...nevermind, my computer was reading the future
    Last edited by donk; 23rd April 2015 at 18:53.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ERK View Post
    You don't want veal to suffer? You realize what an oxymoron that is? Have you any idea how veal came to be veal and how it is raised? http://www.britishmeat.com/veal.html

    If ET's really want to help those on this planet, I think one of the first places they need to start is the *food arena* and by food, I do not just mean food we consume for *nourishment* (hardly, that as I hate to use that term) but other food as well. If there are really some higher vibration ET's , well maybe they ought to have a chat with us about the level of vibration the food we consume is vibrating at- frequency wise. Torture- food for thought.
    The level of meat eating on this planet, especially the factory farm/slaughter food chain, is hugely responsible for the continued low vibrational frequency of humanity. Not to mention the hypocrisy of it since none of us want to be a meal for reptilians. It should follow that other sentient warm-blooded beings do not wish to be consumed and experience great anguish and torture during their being raised for slaughter. Lives so miserable that slaughter is the most merciful part of their lives. This is a planet wide issue and a statement by humanity of the level of their consciousness.

    Hunting is another story and is a far more honest contract with the consumed animal. Not to mention the animal living a natural life until being "harvested". Our lack of compassion for other sentient beings puts humanity on the same vibrational wavelength as the Dracos. We deserve each other. Lack of compassion comes from operating from the reptilian brain. A cold-blooded world view and practices.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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  13. #52
    Super Moderator Church's Avatar
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    Donk, It looks to me like ERK might have been editing the post right about the time you clicked the quote button. Everything that is showing in your quote bubble is appearing in the post you quoted.
    I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donk View Post
    I think it is bizarre how hitting reply to quote came up with this whole quote, as I'm only seeing but what is in red...but I guess that's the forum fairies dinking around with the posts again....anyhow:

    You are kinda touching/demonstrating my point...from the other angle. Just as we need to rethink or at least analyze our emotional attachment to how poorly others treat "food" or other living beings, we need to look at how we feel about other people's beliefs.

    In particular, I understand and agree...the cognitive dissonance hurts my head. But instead of getting all bent and throwing my perspective at Aragorn, I step back and wonder: why is this in my presence? Why is such a seemingly intelligent individual standing by such absurdity? Does he even know what he is saying? Does he believe it?

    MODS: I am reporting this post because what I bolded came up in when I hit "reply with quote" to post #49....and I am not seeing this text anywhere...so something strange is going on.

    UPDATED...nevermind, my computer was reading the future
    We has orcses about, Preciousss.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally Posted by Church View Post
    Donk, It looks to me like ERK might have been editing the post right about the time you clicked the quote button. Everything that is showing in your quote bubble is appearing in the post you quoted.
    Paranoia management is helpful.
    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" -- Voltaire

    "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people."-- Eleanor Roosevelt

    "Misery loves company. Wisdom has to look for it." -- Anonymous

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    Quote Originally Posted by modwiz View Post
    The level of meat eating on this planet, especially the factory farm/slaughter food chain, is hugely responsible for the continued low vibrational frequency of humanity. Not to mention the hypocrisy of it since none of us want to be a meal for reptilians. It should follow that other sentient warm-blooded beings do not wish to be consumed and experience great anguish and torture during their being raised for slaughter. Lives so miserable that slaughter is the most merciful part of their lives. This is a planet wide issue and a statement by humanity of the level of their consciousness.

    Hunting is another story and is a far more honest contract with the consumed animal. Not to mention the animal living a natural life until being "harvested". Our lack of compassion for other sentient beings puts humanity on the same vibrational wavelength as the Dracos. We deserve each other. Lack of compassion comes from operating from the reptilian brain. A cold-blooded world view and practices.

    There also now is some serious spreading of "bird flu" in the usa.

    Some suspect a not natural occurrence ... who knows?


    So ... with mad cow and now turkey and chicken meat suspect ... that leaves ham (pig which is interesting for those that don't need it spelled out).


    Not a bad time to consider going meatless??? (don't drag that into the tired old war ... simply a comment based on changing circumstances ...)

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    Last edited by ERK; 11th May 2015 at 01:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donk View Post
    So you KNOW that any life form that intentionally makes us "suffer" does so for the motive of "recreation"?
    That is not what I said. Please re-read what I wrote. I wrote that part in response to the comment from someone else that certain entities are feeding off of our fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by donk View Post
    You can't imagine a form of life that feeds off emotionally energy the same way a plant does sunlight (or we do food)?
    It depends on what energy they feed off. The energy commonly referred to as "loosh" is a negative energy. Beings who feed off of negative energy are negative beings. And "negative" goes far beyond the "service-to-self" paradigm. We are talking of entropy versus order -- destruction versus creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ERK View Post
    You don't want veal to suffer? You realize what an oxymoron that is? Have you any idea how veal came to be veal and how it is raised? http://www.britishmeat.com/veal.html
    Please re-read my post more properly. I think I made my position very clear. My body is omnivorous, so it requires a diet comprised of both vegetable and animal nutrients. That's just the way it is, but I never said that I like it that way. Furthermore, I also believe that I did clearly state that I do not approve of inflicting suffering, and my mention of the predators in Africa was intended as an illustration of how it is possible to kill without inflicting any unnecessary suffering.

    In fact, given the "tools" we have in our industrialized society, it is quite perfectly possible to kill without inflicting any pain at all. But here in the West, we can't be bothered because we think money is more important and so the more animals we can pack up into tiny little spaces and then brutally execute, the more money comes in from the industrial machine. And over in the Middle East, slaughtering animals painlessly is taboo because it's against their religious beliefs.

    I'm not saying I like it. I'm just saying that this is how it is. No more, no less.
    = DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR =

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    Last edited by ERK; 11th May 2015 at 01:45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donk View Post
    It IS our responsibility to learn the motives and methods of enslavers, who seem to have the very effective method of posing as "saviors". But it would be wise to imagine/keep in mind that predators of that level of sophistication should be pretty capable of adjusting their tactics as their "prey" learns to defend against them.

    But again, my point is we can never even get to this level of thinking until we drop all our bad/old ideas and especially the emotional associations to the predator-prey relationship. In the grand scheme, we are responsible, if we suppose evolution and survival of the fittest and all that...but it seems that soverign critical thinking humans are an endangered species...where our fate seems less likely to be that of the dinosaurs than it does the fate of whatever cows were before we starting domesticating them.

    There's a lot of dynamics at play here: I wanted to be freed from the cultural programming that prevents independent, critical thought. Bringing carnivorous lizards into the equation is a different matter, I brought my perspective in there not for the fear of being food angle, but to analyze our relationship with energy exchanges in a more general sense. If I saw humans getting devoured, it might be a different story. I only see humans being enslaved.
    I agree with you. Good discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donk View Post
    Agreed. I guess I'm worried there seems to be a more than "natural" fear seemingly intentionally attached, and it is based on the idea that wolves are coming in sheep's clothing.

    While it is a healthy fear to have for survival, the emotional attachment to seems to have ramped up lately...and to repeat, to me it seems intentional.
    Oh yes, oh yes.

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